Should toys reflect character characteristics?

[brianj...@gmail.com]

In the beginning, Transformers were just toys. Plastic and metal robots that transformed into cars and planes. Not at all different than Go-Bots or Happy Meal milkshake robots or anything else.

If that was all they ever were, I don't think Transformers would be remembered nearly as fondly as they are today (if at all).

But they were given life. Vector Sigma (Bob Budiansky) gave them all personalities and quicks and weaknesses and relationships. The G1 cartoon gave them voices we can recall in a heartbeat. The G1 comic gave them character development. And all of these things made those simple toys alive to us. They were now truly more than meets the eye.

And really, you never hear anybody say, "gee I sure wish they would update that green little truck thing that turned into a robot with big hooks for hands." But I sure would by a $100 MP of the character Brawn any day.

Point being, now that we know everything about these characters, should the toys then reflect those characteristics? Zob had this to say the other day

"All this weathering on the new toys, and yet we've still never gotten a war-torn Kup or a disgusting, greasy Blot or a garbage-covered Landfill or Wide Load. Oh, well. "

and it really got me thinking. Do we want that?

First we have to break it down a bit. Let's start with special abilities. We get these from time to time like translucent Mirage or half teleporting Skywarp. Which I was always think is cool, but at the same time they were never be in this form on a shelf I was creating. (For people talented enough to do fight scenes or photo projects these are perfect!"

But what about Blot? If I line my Terrorcons up do I have them all look shiny and nice except Blot covered in painted on grease? It's accurate to the character, but also not to any of his scenes in the cartoon or comic. Same would go with Landfill or Wideload.

Steeljaw tends to rust. Do I want a Steeljaw that has a few hidden easter egg style rust spots? Maybe. Lightspeed is also prone to some rust, but of course that really takes away from him being a Technobot above all else. I guess in these cases it's more of a temporary weakness. I wouldn't want a figure of me with symptoms of the flu.

But Lightspeed again. Hes

[brianj...@gmail.com]

But Lightspeed again. He's described as having dashing good locks - something the G1 toy certainly doesn't portray. Now I know this is a tricky one because it's difficult to ascertain the attractiveness of a robot...but I think they could find a way to make a body and head that somehow evoked this. Maybe.

Easier is Bumblebee. Described as the smallest Autobot this didn't come across in the toys (Gears is smaller), or cartoon (Cliffjumper is the same size), etc. And recently of course since all Transformers fall into certain price points and sizes, this hasn't come across at all - especially with his "update" to a deluxe is many continuities. However, if I were to have a big Masterpiece display, I think it would be very important to have this new V2 Bumblebee actually be the smallest so it fits the character.

War torn Autobots and Decepticons would be hard to do, since you can basically just repair a robot. It would be weird to see a much more dented up Ironhide next to a pristine Optimus Prime. However, I also think it would make a good amount of sense for Sunstreaker to be much shinier than the Autobots next to him.

I'll probably come up with a bunch more examples as soon as I post this.

[Zobovor]

On Saturday, June 29, 2019 at 6:48:50 PM UTC-6, brianj...@gmail.com wrote:

> The G1 cartoon gave them voices we can recall in a heartbeat. The G1 comic gave them character development. And all of these things made those simple toys alive to us.

Interesting post. I've always said that this is where Transformers truly excelled as a toy line, and what separated it from all the other robot toys of its day. Intrinsically, the Transformers toys were no better or worse than the Tonka GoBots or the Convertors or any other assortments from the 1980's. But thanks to the marketing bonanza, Transformers characters came to life in a way most GoBots never did. Challenge of the GoBots doubled down and breathed life into six main characters. They were very well-defined. But the rest of the toy line were total ciphers. (I was surprised, after getting the show on DVD, how many of the toys actually made appearances on the show. My memory was that most of the GoBots toys had never appeared in animated form.)

> Point being, now that we know everything about these characters, should the toys then reflect those characteristics? Do we want that?

I like it when they add design elements to the toys that acknowledges a character's media portrayal. Like the short-circuit you can attach to Masterpiece Red Alert's helmet, or the molded slingshot attached to some recent version of Wheelie. Sometimes it's easy to go overboard (I generally dislike graffiti on the toys that makes some cheeky fandom reference) but I like that they're acknowledging the history of the characters.

I mean, as far back as 1986, it bothered me that there was no Matrix accessory you could put in Rodimus Prime's chest. It factored into the show so prominently that it should have been a play pattern kids could reenact at home. It took a long time for them to correct that oversight.

> First we have to break it down a bit. Let's start with special abilities. We get these from time to time like translucent Mirage or half teleporting Skywarp. Which I was always think is cool, but at the same time they were never be in this form on a shelf I was creating.

As an aside, I fully expect that when and if Takara gets around to doing a Masterpiece version of Mirage, they will also do an "invisible" version in translucent plastic.

> But what about Blot? If I line my Terrorcons up do I have them all look shiny and nice except Blot covered in painted on grease? It's accurate to the character, but also not to any of his scenes in the cartoon or comic. Same would go with Landfill or Wideload.

I'll just say this. When I was a kid, the characterizations of the toys were really important to me. If I had some birthday money burning a hole in my pocket and I could only afford one Headmaster or Pretender or whatever, I was often drawn to the toy who had the most interesting personality. It did bother me when they came up with physical descriptions for Blot or Apeface or Landfill that were clearly not reflected in the finished toys. I mean, if there had been just a little bit more synergy between the toy design team and the tech specs writers, this could at least have been reflected in the consumer-applied labels, if nothing else.

> But Lightspeed again. He's described as having dashing good looks - something the G1 toy certainly doesn't portray.

Of course it does. He's red, isn't he? We know female Autobots go crazy for guys in red. Just ask Optimus Prime and Inferno and Powerglide and Ironhide.

> Easier is Bumblebee. Described as the smallest Autobot this didn't come across in the toys (Gears is smaller), or cartoon (Cliffjumper is the same size), etc.

This bothered me SO MUCH when I was a kid.

> However, if I were to have a big Masterpiece display, I think it would be very important to have this new V2 Bumblebee actually be the smallest so it fits the character.

Yes. Yes. A thousand times yes. Masterpiece is, at least in part, the ultimate love song to a character's media portrayal (I guess we can say "cartoon portrayal" here, since Marvel Comics is rarely an influential factor).

I guess if you're talking about putting a collection of toys on the shelf, it does look a bit odd for one character to be riddled with battle damage while one right next to him is totally pristine. But, put a Boba Fett figure next to a Darth Vader figure and you're going to run into the same issue. Boba Fett has dents and scratches in his armor and Darth Vader does not.

I do kind of see your point, though. Applying this to Star Wars again, C-3PO is generally a little tarnished in most scenes, partly because technology in Star Wars exists in a "used universe" but also because reflections from camera crews were problematic. So, a pristine and shiny C-3PO action figure looks really good on a display shelf, but it isn't really accurate to his media appearances except for his guest spots on Sesame Street and the Muppet Show. Too much tarnish kind of ruins the toy, though. The shopworn version of C-3PO that came with the Purchase of the Droids 3-pack is covered with sand and dirt and it's one of the ugliest versions of the character I've ever bought. It's accurate to his screen appearance, but it's hideous. Thanks, I hate it!

Conversely, it took Hasbro a really long time to produce an official figure of R2-D2 that was covered in Dagobah mud. He spends most of The Empire Strikes Back looking like this, and for some reason a mud-covered R2-D2 delights me much more than a sand-covered C-3PO. Don't ask me to explain it, 'coz I can't.

Back to Transformers. I guess the only solution that would make all fans happy would be to do a variant of characters like Blot, selling a "dirty" version and a "clean" version and allowing consumers to buy either or both.

Something weird, though, is that this is more like a theoretical concept of what these characters *might* look like versus how we've actually seen them. In fiction, a character like Blot was never actually depicted as being disgusting, either in the Sunbow cartoon or Marvel Comics. About the closest we ever got was "Money is Everything" which sort of implies that being teleported by the recreator made him feel a bit sick because it cleaned him up, and he wasn't used to feeling that way. But, from a visual perspective, he's never *looked* like the most disgusting of all Transformers. So, in some ways, to do a dirty, disgusting-looking Blot toy would be a betrayal of his visual depiction.

I guess the only thing left I've got to say on the subject is that we have on rare occasions gotten Transformers toys who are weathered, like Beast Machines Stryka (or was it Blastcharge? Or was it both?) and Universe Depthcharge and, I think, some or all of the Deployers. I generally dislike it. And, coming full circle back to Siege, it's weird to get an entire toy line filled with battle-damaged robots. Yeah, this is what they would look like after centuries of war, but it's not visually appealing. The "house style" for artwork from Dreamwave Productions was to always draw robot characters with cracked armor, windows, etc. and I hated that for the same reason. It made the characters look like garbage.


Zob (Wreck-Gar is another character we really need a "rusty" version of)

[Gustavo Wombat]

<brianj...@gmail.com> wrote:
> In the beginning, Transformers were just toys. Plastic and metal robots
> that transformed into cars and planes. Not at all different than Go-Bots
> or Happy Meal milkshake robots or anything else.
>
> If that was all they ever were, I don't think Transformers would be
> remembered nearly as fondly as they are today (if at all).
>
> But they were given life. Vector Sigma (Bob Budiansky) gave them all
> personalities and quicks and weaknesses and relationships. The G1
> cartoon gave them voices we can recall in a heartbeat. The G1 comic gave
> them character development. And all of these things made those simple
> toys alive to us. They were now truly more than meets the eye.

It’s not just the characters, but also the world. I don’t think any kid who
had a few Transformers and a few Go-Bots combined them into one world where
the Transformers are just Go-Bots, but I would expect the opposite.
Transformers had a richer, fully world. Clunky at points, but much more
fleshed out than the other toylines of that era.

That’s why characters like Windblade (Wingblade?), Lockdown, Lugnut, and
all the little PrimeMasters fit into that world. And Drift is just a
terrible character who wouldn’t fit anywhere. It’s why I wish we got
characters like TF:Animated/Prime Bulkhead slipped into the G1 universe in
one of the Generations lines.

> And really, you never hear anybody say, "gee I sure wish they would
> update that green little truck thing that turned into a robot with big
> hooks for hands." But I sure would by a $100 MP of the character Brawn any day.

Really? Brawn? Huh I guess someone has to love Brawn.

> Point being, now that we know everything about these characters, should
> the toys then reflect those characteristics? Zob had this to say the other day
>
> "All this weathering on the new toys, and yet we've still never gotten a
> war-torn Kup or a disgusting, greasy Blot or a garbage-covered Landfill
> or Wide Load. Oh, well. "
>
> and it really got me thinking. Do we want that?

Wasn’t there a He-Man toy that smelled bad? Like Skunkor or something? I
don’t think that was a great thing.

I mean, it would be sort of funny if Blot was sticky, but I think that
would take some of the fun of the toy away. The gimmick would dominate the
toy.

> First we have to break it down a bit. Let's start with special
> abilities. We get these from time to time like translucent Mirage or
> half teleporting Skywarp. Which I was always think is cool, but at the
> same time they were never be in this form on a shelf I was creating.
> (For people talented enough to do fight scenes or photo projects these are perfect!"

Half teleporting doesn’t do anything for me. It’s a toy that represents a
character for one nanosecond of existence, and no other toys can really
interact with them, because they can’t do anything — they are frozen in an
instant.

> But what about Blot? If I line my Terrorcons up do I have them all look
> shiny and nice except Blot covered in painted on grease? It's accurate
> to the character, but also not to any of his scenes in the cartoon or
> comic. Same would go with Landfill or Wideload.
>
> Steeljaw tends to rust. Do I want a Steeljaw that has a few hidden
> easter egg style rust spots? Maybe. Lightspeed is also prone to some
> rust, but of course that really takes away from him being a Technobot
> above all else. I guess in these cases it's more of a temporary
> weakness. I wouldn't want a figure of me with symptoms of the flu.

Here’s something a little odd about me and my toy preferences: I like the
stiffness and rigid postures of the G1 figures. Toys like Titans Return
Whoever are almost always objectively better than the G1 toy, with far
greater articulation, but they always seem a little sloppy. The legs aren’t
perfectly straight as they stand, and the arms shift slightly at the
shoulders rather than just rotating at one point, even if you were trying
to get a crisp pose.

I don’t need rust spots or skin conditions or whatever.

If I want my Blot covered in oil or goo, I have maple syrup, and I can do
it myself.

> But Lightspeed again. He's described as having dashing good locks -
> something the G1 toy certainly doesn't portray. Now I know this is a
> tricky one because it's difficult to ascertain the attractiveness of a
> robot...but I think they could find a way to make a body and head that
> somehow evoked this. Maybe.
>

> Easier is Bumblebee. Described as the smallest Autobot this didn't come
> across in the toys (Gears is smaller), or cartoon (Cliffjumper is the

> same size), etc. And recently of course since all Transformers fall into
> certain price points and sizes, this hasn't come across at all -

> especially with his "update" to a deluxe is many continuities. However,

> if I were to have a big Masterpiece display, I think it would be very
> important to have this new V2 Bumblebee actually be the smallest so it fits the character.

I always thought of Bumblebee as emotionally small.... sure, he’s also
smaller than most, but Cliffjumper’s personality is larger than life.

I really wish V1 MP Bumblebee’s car mode was in scale with the other cars.
They changed the car mode to be realistic, and at that point it’s all fair
game.

> War torn Autobots and Decepticons would be hard to do, since you can
> basically just repair a robot. It would be weird to see a much more
> dented up Ironhide next to a pristine Optimus Prime. However, I also
> think it would make a good amount of sense for Sunstreaker to be much
> shinier than the Autobots next to him.

Sunstreaker should just be a brighter color.

And the Siege battle damage... it bothers me because it’s just on a few
pieces. Ultra Magnus has scuffed the insides of his forearms but not the
outside. It’s just weird.

[Irrellius Spamticon of the Potato People.]

On Sunday, June 30, 2019 at 6:13:33 AM UTC-5, Gustavo Wombat, of the Seattle Wombats wrote:
> <brianj...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > In the beginning, Transformers were just toys. Plastic and metal robots
> > that transformed into cars and planes. Not at all different than Go-Bots
> > or Happy Meal milkshake robots or anything else.
> >
> > If that was all they ever were, I don't think Transformers would be
> > remembered nearly as fondly as they are today (if at all).
> >
> > But they were given life. Vector Sigma (Bob Budiansky) gave them all
> > personalities and quicks and weaknesses and relationships. The G1
> > cartoon gave them voices we can recall in a heartbeat. The G1 comic gave
> > them character development. And all of these things made those simple
> > toys alive to us. They were now truly more than meets the eye.
>
> It’s not just the characters, but also the world. I don’t think any kid who
> had a few Transformers and a few Go-Bots combined them into one world where
> the Transformers are just Go-Bots, but I would expect the opposite.
> Transformers had a richer, fully world. Clunky at points, but much more
> fleshed out than the other toylines of that era.
>

We've had a lot of the original Gobots given official Transformer equivalents, but they weren't around long enough for them to have Transformers in their line.

> That’s why characters like Windblade (Wingblade?), Lockdown, Lugnut, and
> all the little PrimeMasters fit into that world. And Drift is just a
> terrible character who wouldn’t fit anywhere. It’s why I wish we got
> characters like TF:Animated/Prime Bulkhead slipped into the G1 universe in
> one of the Generations lines.
>

Drift was supposed to be the Wolverine archetype character, popular because he was an antihero loner with a sometimes faltering honor code.

> > And really, you never hear anybody say, "gee I sure wish they would
> > update that green little truck thing that turned into a robot with big
> > hooks for hands." But I sure would by a $100 MP of the character Brawn any day.
>
> Really? Brawn? Huh I guess someone has to love Brawn.
>
> > Point being, now that we know everything about these characters, should
> > the toys then reflect those characteristics? Zob had this to say the other day
> >
> > "All this weathering on the new toys, and yet we've still never gotten a
> > war-torn Kup or a disgusting, greasy Blot or a garbage-covered Landfill
> > or Wide Load. Oh, well. "
> >
> > and it really got me thinking. Do we want that?
>
> Wasn’t there a He-Man toy that smelled bad? Like Skunkor or something? I
> don’t think that was a great thing.
>
> I mean, it would be sort of funny if Blot was sticky, but I think that
> would take some of the fun of the toy away. The gimmick would dominate the
> toy.
>
> > First we have to break it down a bit. Let's start with special
> > abilities. We get these from time to time like translucent Mirage or
> > half teleporting Skywarp. Which I was always think is cool, but at the
> > same time they were never be in this form on a shelf I was creating.
> > (For people talented enough to do fight scenes or photo projects these are perfect!"
>
> Half teleporting doesn’t do anything for me. It’s a toy that represents a
> character for one nanosecond of existence, and no other toys can really
> interact with them, because they can’t do anything — they are frozen in an
> instant.
>

We get tons of accessories like thi though. Starscream's coronation crown, the movie "scanning series" figures half translucent from when they are scanning their Earth modes, Masterpiece Grapple coming with Solar power tower model and blueprint,

So Bumblebee was tied for smallest in season 1 cartoon, Brawn, Windcharger, and Gears were drawn much larget and Cliffjumper was tied. but what about later? Do we get many media depictions where Bumblebee is smaller than Ramhorn, Steeljaw, Eject, or Rewind?

I didn't get V1 MP because it was out of scale and figured it would be redone to scale. But they went the opposite direction. I'll probably pick up v1 when someone trades in theirs after getting a v2.

> > War torn Autobots and Decepticons would be hard to do, since you can
> > basically just repair a robot. It would be weird to see a much more
> > dented up Ironhide next to a pristine Optimus Prime. However, I also
> > think it would make a good amount of sense for Sunstreaker to be much
> > shinier than the Autobots next to him.
>
> Sunstreaker should just be a brighter color.
>

I'm surprised we never got a neon nuclear orange repaint of Sunstreaker yet.

> And the Siege battle damage... it bothers me because it’s just on a few
> pieces. Ultra Magnus has scuffed the insides of his forearms but not the
> outside. It’s just weird.
>
> > I'll probably come up with a bunch more examples as soon as I post this.
> >

Wat's funny is the placement of Siege battle damage, Was Magnus hugging someone too roughly? Was Shockwave kicking bots a lot?



So we've gotten two ideas a bit mixed here, it seems to revolve a lot around personal hygiene of the character versus abilities of the character. Being invisible isn't part of Mirage's personality, it's part of his ability. Ratchet came with a lot of tools because that was his ability, not his personality.

It's a bit like saying "why aren't the combaticon toys all missing the parts Swindle sold off at some point? Why doesn't Chop Shop come with a ton of extra stuff he stole? Why doesn't First Aid come with some appliance friends? Why are Sharkticons so shiny when they come out of swamps?"

My Headstrong did come with some dents and damage on his head though...

[Zobovor]

On Sunday, June 30, 2019 at 5:13:33 AM UTC-6, Gustavo Wombat, of the Seattle Wombats wrote:

> It’s not just the characters, but also the world. I don’t think any kid who
> had a few Transformers and a few Go-Bots combined them into one world where
> the Transformers are just Go-Bots, but I would expect the opposite.

That's a really good point. I'm sure kids with mixed toys were still calling them "Autobots" and "Decepticons," and not "Guardians" and "Renegades."

> Wasn’t there a He-Man toy that smelled bad? Like Skunkor or something? I
> don’t think that was a great thing.

Stinkor! And, a bit later, Moss Man!

Something about He-Man is that it was a very gimmick-driven toy line. At first, most of the toys only had that spring-loaded waist (so they could punch each other when you turned the waist and let it go), but they branched out into other ideas. I'm pretty sure every single figure from that toy line had some kind of special gimmick. (I think Kobra Khan was my favorite. He could spray water!)

With Transformers, the ability to transform is always the gimmick, but they also add other stuff on top of that sometimes (combine together, color change paint, etc.) We tend to get gimmicks in groups. All these guys are Headmasters. All these other guys shoot sparks out of their butts. And so it goes. Realistically, we wouldn't get Blot as a single grimy toy. We'd get a whole assortment of grimy toys called Transformers: Mudmasters or something.

> I mean, it would be sort of funny if Blot was sticky, but I think that
> would take some of the fun of the toy away. The gimmick would dominate the
> toy.

Maybe not sticky, but he should have a paint wash or something to represent the thin layer of grime that's supposedly covering his body.

> Half teleporting doesn’t do anything for me. It’s a toy that represents a
> character for one nanosecond of existence, and no other toys can really
> interact with them, because they can’t do anything — they are frozen in an
> instant.

I agree with all of this completely.

> Here’s something a little odd about me and my toy preferences: I like the
> stiffness and rigid postures of the G1 figures.

Same here. All the Transformers toys I have on display are standing at attention, like good toy soldiers. (Masterpiece Wheeljack is standing like a cowboy, but that's just this thing that Wheeljack does.)

> If I want my Blot covered in oil or goo, I have maple syrup, and I can do
> it myself.

That's gross. You'd have to segregate him from all the other toys, lest he contaminate them all. ("The syrup plague, as it's become known, has spread like wildfire. It began with infected Transformers...")

> I always thought of Bumblebee as emotionally small.... sure, he’s also
> smaller than most, but Cliffjumper’s personality is larger than life.

That's funny. Bumblebee always assumed he was the smallest, until one day he was standing right next to Cliffjumper and somebody pointed out they were the exact same size.

> And the Siege battle damage... it bothers me because it’s just on a few
> pieces. Ultra Magnus has scuffed the insides of his forearms but not the
> outside. It’s just weird.

That's from the time he grabbed two tiny Constructicons by the scruff of the neck and knocked their heads together like coconuts. They tried to fight back.


Zob (they lost, of course)

[Zobovor]

On Sunday, June 30, 2019 at 8:40:54 AM UTC-6, Irrellius Spamticon of the Potato People. wrote:

> So we've gotten two ideas a bit mixed here, it seems to revolve a lot around personal hygiene of the character versus abilities of the character. Being invisible isn't part of Mirage's personality, it's part of his ability. Ratchet came with a lot of tools because that was his ability, not his personality.

Well, what about Wreck-Gar? Being made of junk goes far beyond the character's inability to keep himself clean. It's the core idea behind the character. He can repair himself using junk. That's an ability, too. No Wreck-Gar toy has ever looked like he was actually assembled from scrap and mismatched parts.

> It's a bit like saying "why aren't the combaticon toys all missing the parts Swindle sold off at some point? Why doesn't Chop Shop come with a ton of extra stuff he stole? Why doesn't First Aid come with some appliance friends? Why are Sharkticons so shiny when they come out of swamps?"

We tend to get a lot of great scene-specific accessories with the Star Wars toys. Transformers has only just barely started doing this with the Masterpiece line, when it's warranted. And, really, I'm totally okay with this. If, say, some hypothetical Masterpiece Combaticons each came with some non-vital detachable parts so you could assemble them all and build B.O.T., that would be dynamite. Chop Shop coming with a pile of loot would make perfect sense for the character.

I guess the biggest difference is that a lot of background characters in Star Wars are only *in* one scene, so holding that ice cream maker or whatever is literally the only thing we see them do. For Transformers, it's more limiting, because if you give them a scene-specific accessory, they're either relegated to never using it, or they're stuck forever reenacting a single scene from their careers. (INFERNO: "Uh, so how long do I have to hold Red Alert like this, exactly...?")

> My Headstrong did come with some dents and damage on his head though...

See? Authentic to the character!


Zob (sad that Masterpiece Ramjet didn't come with a smooshed-in nosecone to reenact "A Deceptacon Raider in King Arthur's Court")

[Steve L.K. Macrocranios]

I saw a Kup that was beat to hell in a $2 box at DairyCon a couple years back. The tires were cracked and busted, the paint was chipped badly and the stickers were obliterated but thankfully the plastic color was still bright and unyellowed. It was the perfect Kup and I wish I would have bought it.

On Sunday, June 30, 2019 at 4:13:33 AM UTC-7, Gustavo Wombat, of the Seattle Wombats wrote:

> Wasn’t there a He-Man toy that smelled bad? Like Skunkor or something? I
> don’t think that was a great thing.

But they did so many other great things. Masters of the Universe did the best job of any 1980s toyline of porting over character concepts from their animated shows. Orko and I think Prince Adam are good examples of the cartoon coming up with an idea and then the toymakers bringing it to the line. Nothing else comes close. Well, Wheeled Warriors was going to have figures of the Lightning League but the toys got cancelled before that could get done.

Hasbro completely blew it in the 80s and failed big time at translating Transformers characters from the tv screen to the toys. They were completely inept at developing a synergy between the cartoon and the toyline. We had to wait decades before some of the robots from the original show got toys. The ideas were always toy first and not the other way around. They blew it. Blew it blew it blew it. Masterpiece with its show centered accessories is 20 years too late. I feel bad for all the fans that died before 2005 or so. They never got to see figures of the show humans that fit into halfway decent transforming versions of the robot characters. (Although I kind of envy any fans who died before the latest MP Optimus and Bumblebee designs made the rounds.)