Hasbro Racism

[banzait...@gmail.com]

ATT,

I am the first one to jump up and criticize Hasbro for their failures, which come at a rapid pace. At the same time, I do recognize that the product that is coming out now is some of their best ever, and it is next to impossible to completely satisfy the true fandom. With that said, I do think there is a very disturbing trend where the fandom is completely against every thing Hasbro does relative to Takara. It's like everything Takara puts out is highly superior to Hasbro's effort. This racist view has to stop.
As an example, see this thread from Seibertron:

- http://www.seibertron.com/transformers/news/in-depth-comparison-images-for-takara-transformers-unite-warriors-computron-and-hasbro-version/36165/

After reviewing the article in detail, I can honestly say I think the Hasbro version is better. It's close for sure, but everyone seems to automatically crown the Takara version as superior. I agree that Takara's version of nose cone and lightspeed is the far and away winner. However, I think Hasbro wins with the other three molds. Nobody seems to care that the Hasbro version is taller, has a better head sculpt with longer antennas, and COMES WITH AN EXTRA FIGURE!? (Not to mention the Takara version will cost you significantly more!) If Scrounge came in the Takara version and NOT in the Hasbro version, everyone would be going apeface, but since it's in the Hasbro version, nobody gives a rattrap. Sigh.
I get that all of this is completely subjective, but I just want to make the point that I think the fandom needs to stop blindly groveling at the feet of Takara. They are not ALWAYS superior to Hasbro.

- Banzaitron (#HasbroLivesMatter)

[Zobovor]

On Sunday, August 28, 2016 at 10:23:27 AM UTC-6, banzait...@gmail.com wrote:

> I do think there is a very disturbing trend where the fandom is completely
> against every thing Hasbro does relative to Takara. It's like everything
> Takara puts out is highly superior to Hasbro's effort. This racist view has
> to stop.

Is it racism, when the vast majority of the fans on the English-speaking message boards are from America? It would be one thing if we were all Japanese and automatically praising Takara (or conversely, defaulting to Hasbro love just because they're in the USA), but that doesn't seem to be the case. If anything, it's reverse-racism.

Unless you're being tongue-in-cheek, of course. It's hard to tell on a text-based forum sometimes.

> After reviewing the article in detail, I can honestly say I think the Hasbro
> version is better.

Here's my take on it:

SCATTERSHOT

In vehicle mode, Hasbro Scattershot has a bright red deco (with a dark blue cockpit) that does not match the G1 toy or the Sunbow animation model. Takara Scattershot has a dark red and magenta color scheme (with light blue cockpit) that more closely matches the original character. In robot mode, Hasbro Scattershot has no remolding except the robot head, and reuses the Silverbolt gun, Silverbolt chest, etc. Takara Scattershot has new weapons and has a modified chest sculpt and different knees. His color mapping is closer to the G1 toy and has twin Autobot symbols on his breast plates as per the Sunbow cartoon. I like Takara Scattershot better.

AFTERBURNER

In vehicle mode, Hasbro Afterburner has a two-tone orange color scheme and recycled Groove weapons, and seems patterned after the colors of the G1 toy. Takara Afterburner is a single shade of dark orange, has new weapons, painted wheel wells, and seems to be colored based on his Sunbow animated appearance. In robot mode, Hasbro Afterburner takes cues from the 1987 toy, with a silver-painted pelvis with red deco on his chest mirroring the colors of the toy stickers. Takara Afterburner uses the animated look, with white instead of silver. I don't have a clear favorite here... they're both attractive for different reasons.

STRAFE

Hasbro Strafe is based on the Air Raid mold while Takara Strafe is based on their Blast Off mold. In vehicle mode, Hasbro Strafe is off-white, has a black painted canopy, and has a huge undercarriage block underneath his vehicle form. Takara Strafe is bright white, closer to his animated look, and his general vehicle profile matches the G1 look more closely. In robot mode, Hasbro Strafe has an orange chest and biceps, a dark red chest, and his eyes and face are painted red as per the G1 toy. Takara Strafe has color mapping that more closely evokes the G1 animation model, has twin Autobot symbols on the breast plates like the cartoon, and has wings on his arms. To me, Takara Strafe is so much better.

LIGHTSPEED

In vehicle mode, Hasbro Lightspeed is a red redeco of Combiner Wars Prowl and retains the roof lights from that version. Takara Lightspeed is a redeco of Wheeljack, and has the pronounced front bumper, spoiler, and rounded cockpit that more closely match the profile of the G1 character. In robot mode, Hasbro Lightspeed uses the Streetwise head sculpt and is almost entirely white in color. Takara Lightspeed gets a dedicated head sculpt, includes the faux cockpit on his chest, and faux hood-feet carried over from the Wheeljack mold. To me, Takara Lightspeed is eminently preferable by great leaps and bounds.

NOSECONE

Hasbro Nosecone is based on Combiner Wars Brawl while Takara Nosecone is based on Combiner Wars Rook. In vehicle mode, Hasbro Nosecone reverses the orientation of Brawl's vehicle mode, looking like a backwards tank, with a small drill attachment and a color scheme that evokes the G1 toy. Takara Nosecone has dedicated treads and a larger drill, and is colored more like the way Nosecone appears in animation. Hasbro Nosecone has treaded arms, like the G1 character, and yellow panels on the robot legs as per the G1 toy. Takara Nosecone lacks the treads-for-arms look, and has missiles attached to his arms (which the G1 toy did not have), but its color profile matches Nosecone's animated look. It's a shame about the lack of treads-for-arms (arguably Nosecone's most distinctive feature), but I still like the Takara version better overall.

COMPUTRON

Hasbro Computron is not remolded, so it has the Superion chest armor and Superion head sculpt. It has dedicated fists and rocker-tilt feet that are larger and not used as weapons for the Technobots. It also includes Scrounge, the little Autobot from Marvel Comics issue #18 who transformed into a wheel, and an extra Mini-Con named Cybaxx (redeco versions of Cosmos and Payload). Takara Computron has a new chest and head sculpt, and the face is colored less like the G1 toy and more like how Computron appears in the cartoon (gold face, blue eyes). The individual Technobot weapons can connect together like Robots in Disguise Ruination. The lack of a remolded head really bothers me on the Hasbro version, so I generally like the Takara edition better.

> Nobody seems to care that the Hasbro version is taller, has a better head
> sculpt with longer antennas, and COMES WITH AN EXTRA FIGURE!?

Taller, sure, because he comes with gigantic feet that you can't store anywhere on the individual Technobots when he's not combined together. And it's only a "better" head sculpt if you like your Computron to look just like Superion.

The extra toy is great, but I'm not a huge fan of Scrounge so honestly it's not a dealbreaker for me. (I don't even know if I would buy Scrounge if it were sold at retail by itself.) It's almost like Hasbro knew their Computron wasn't going to be as good, so they threw in Scrounge to try to sweeten the pot a little.

> I just want to make the point that I think the fandom needs to stop blindly
> groveling at the feet of Takara. They are not ALWAYS superior to Hasbro.

There have been plenty of Takara products that I've disliked. Their original Masterpiece version of Starscream is usually my go-to example for a huge Takara fail. I can't imagine why anybody would want a green Starscream. I've also gone on record as preferring the Alternators toys to the Binaltech versions (there's no reason for those toys to cost more than $20, and all that die-cast metal just means the paint is more likely to chip when they fall off your display shelf) and I've never understood adding all that vac-metal chrome to the Henkei! toys, seemingly for their own sake (I do really like the Henkei version of Smokescreen, but that's just about the only one I really want to own).

I also really don't much like the resculpted faces Takara is doing for Titans Return, because they're trying to make the toys match the Headmasters cartoon from Japan rather than the American animated look, and I vastly prefer the way the characters looked in "The Rebirth."

The thing that I don't think a lot of people remember is that Hasbro and Takara are serving very different markets. Hasbro is a children's toy company and while they do have a growing market share of adult collectors, they owe it to their shareholders to provide a product that is cheap and affordable and kid-friendly. Japan is much more densely populated per capita and being an adult collector is far more socially acceptable. Takara can spend more on remolds and paint operations with the understanding that their fan base will be willing to pay the extra premium. One business model isn't necessarily better than the other; they're just different.

What I don't get is when people cry foul every time Takara comes out with something that's better than a similar Hasbro product or vice versa. Like, for example, the arguing that went on when the Masterpiece Soundwave reissue was announced and everybody scrambled out of the woodwork to shot at the top of their lungs about whether the red eyes (Takara, based on G1 cartoon) or yellow eyes (Hasbro, based on G1 toy) were better. It's not like each fan is distributed a random ticket that says either "red" or "yellow" and whichever ticket you draw is the version you're stuck with. You have the power to choose, people. It's not like this is the 1980's where you had no idea which toys even existed in Japan. Geographic boundaries mean nothing nowadays. If you like Soundwave with red eyes, then order him online. If you like yellow eyes, then get the domestic version and stop being so damn condescending ("I never saw your precious cookie-cutter cartoon and don't care").

With all that being said, though, I do agree with you that some people probably do blindly worship everything Takara puts out, probably because they feel like they are being perceived as trendy (stuff from Japan is exotic and "cool") and well-to-do (stuff from Japan can be expensive to import). I imagine there are people out there who import Japanese toys even when the domestic version is essentially identical, just so they can feel like they paid extra for the limited-edition, hard-to-find overseas editions. So, there's that.


Zob (building Transformers music tracks again and it's nice to be back in the proverbial saddle)

[No One In Particular]

Hardly a new thing. There have been Takara fans squeeeing over their
offerings as long as I've been reading ATT. (Probably longer, but I
wasn't reading then to say. :) )

Brian

[Gustavo Wombat, of the Seattle Wombats]

On Sunday, August 28, 2016 at 9:23:27 AM UTC-7, banzait...@gmail.com wrote:
> ATT,
>
> - http://www.seibertron.com/transformers/news/in-depth-comparison-images-for-takara-transformers-unite-warriors-computron-and-hasbro-version/36165/

I was going down the pictures, liking the Takara one better in each case until I came to Strafe, and didn't like him at all. Then I realized that the photographer swapped which side the Takara version was on, and that it was the Hasbro version I disliked.

> I get that all of this is completely subjective, but I just want to make the point that I think the fandom needs to stop blindly groveling at the feet of Takara. They are not ALWAYS superior to Hasbro.

With the Titans Returns, I think the Takara versions are pretty much better. Head sculpts match a different cartoon, but the color schemes actually evoke the characters more -- Blurr and Scourge leap out at me. Not always better enough to be worth hunting down, but better.

The toys are a lot more expensive than they used to be, and a lot smaller, so I think Hasbro could spring for a few more paint operations.

And I have no idea what's up with Blurr -- he seems like they picked the wrong base color entirely, and then blew their paint budget painting other parts darker. Had they started with the light blue, and added darker blue accents, I might recognize him as the character.

[Gustavo Wombat, of the Seattle Wombats]

On Sunday, August 28, 2016 at 11:18:47 AM UTC-7, Zobovor wrote:
> On Sunday, August 28, 2016 at 10:23:27 AM UTC-6, banzait...@gmail.com wrote:

> The extra toy is great, but I'm not a huge fan of Scrounge so honestly it's not a dealbreaker for me. (I don't even know if I would buy Scrounge if it were sold at retail by itself.) It's almost like Hasbro knew their Computron wasn't going to be as good, so they threw in Scrounge to try to sweeten the pot a little.

I think Scrounge can go to hell.

Ok, I actually just have no feelings about Scrounge at all. I gather he was a character somewhere.

> There have been plenty of Takara products that I've disliked. Their original Masterpiece version of Starscream is usually my go-to example for a huge Takara fail. I can't imagine why anybody would want a green Starscream. I've also gone on record as preferring the Alternators toys to the Binaltech versions (there's no reason for those toys to cost more than $20, and all that die-cast metal just means the paint is more likely to chip when they fall off your display shelf)

Binaltech recreated the terror that you get playing with the G1 toys that were too heavy and too fragile for their own good. Also, Smokescreen looked way better, with the richness of the metallic paint rather than the boring blue plastic.

> and I've never understood adding all that vac-metal chrome to the Henkei! toys, seemingly for their own sake (I do really like the Henkei version of Smokescreen, but that's just about the only one I really want to own).

The chrome was pretty pointless.

The only version of Smokescreen that I really want is this:
http://tfwiki.net/mediawiki/images2/c/ca/UnreleasedBIABSmokescreen.jpg

Hasbro versions of the Animated toys were a lot better, except for the ones we didn't get.

> I also really don't much like the resculpted faces Takara is doing for Titans Return, because they're trying to make the toys match the Headmasters cartoon from Japan rather than the American animated look, and I vastly prefer the way the characters looked in "The Rebirth."

I'll take the color schemes over the head molds. I haven't watched Rebirth enough to care.

[Zobovor]

On Sunday, August 28, 2016 at 5:45:07 PM UTC-6, Gustavo Wombat, of the Seattle Wombats wrote:

> The toys are a lot more expensive than they used to be, and a lot smaller, so
> I think Hasbro could spring for a few more paint operations.

That's the problem Hasbro is facing, though. Production costs have jumped up universally. Sometimes they respond by making the product smaller (the regular containers of Play-Doh recently went from the standard 5-oz. can that we all grew up with to this tiny, pathetically bite-sized 3-oz. can). Sometimes they reduce the number of moving parts in a toy (the main Star Wars toy line).

They can't really do either of these things with Transformers without people crying foul. Transformers need x amount of moving parts or else they can't transform. They've already reduced the number of parts required to assemble the toys (fewer metal pins than ever before). Just about the only things left in the budget they can cut are packaging costs and paint applications.

A lot of people balked when Deluxe-class toys went from $10 to $15, myself included. That's just barely keeping up with inflation and increased production costs, though. They would have to charge even more in order to include all the proper paint applications that we want. Either that, or the quality of the toys would have to drop even further to offset the cost of more paint.

It's kind of like when the Armada toys came out and the MRSP was around $12 or $13. Hasbro argued that you were basically getting two Transformers now, a regular one and a tiny one. That's kind of how the Titan Masters are. (They got rid of the pack-in comic books, at least, which I think was a sensible move.)

> And I have no idea what's up with Blurr -- he seems like they picked the
> wrong base color entirely, and then blew their paint budget painting other
> parts darker.

Maybe they were trying to differentiate him from his case-mate, Scourge? Of course, the solution would have been to just ship Wolfwire or Mindwipe or somebody first, and push back Scourge for a later wave.


Zob (you're right, the Takara version of Blurr is kind of amazing)

[Irrellius Spamticon of the Potato People.]

On Sunday, August 28, 2016 at 7:47:07 PM UTC-5, Zobovor wrote:
> On Sunday, August 28, 2016 at 5:45:07 PM UTC-6, Gustavo Wombat, of the Seattle Wombats wrote:
>
> > The toys are a lot more expensive than they used to be, and a lot smaller, so
> > I think Hasbro could spring for a few more paint operations.
>
> That's the problem Hasbro is facing, though. Production costs have jumped up universally. Sometimes they respond by making the product smaller (the regular containers of Play-Doh recently went from the standard 5-oz. can that we all grew up with to this tiny, pathetically bite-sized 3-oz. can). Sometimes they reduce the number of moving parts in a toy (the main Star Wars toy line).
>

The main Starwars line for Force Awakens is packaged with a useless accessory for a gimmick, but some of those accessories had more parts than the main figure, and due to lack of joints the figures can't even use the accessories that contain more engineering than that figure.

They are sacrificing the actual toy to go after the gimmick. We aren't getting bodies for Siren or Nightbeat, who used to be actual Headmasters, but they are repainting Chromedome into Getaway, who wasn't originally a Headmaster. Horri-bull Squeezeplay and Fangry, they probably could have made one mold and retool it into another and we could have gotten bodies for two of them in one go. Sort of the Springer/sandstorm treatment.

> They can't really do either of these things with Transformers without people crying foul. Transformers need x amount of moving parts or else they can't transform. They've already reduced the number of parts required to assemble the toys (fewer metal pins than ever before). Just about the only things left in the budget they can cut are packaging costs and paint applications.
>

I got the kabaya King Posiedon kits, which are self-assembled kits, each kit has no paint and a maximum of four colors of plastic. I ignored the stickers and it still looks 1000 times better than CW Wheeljack. It's about the same height too.

> A lot of people balked when Deluxe-class toys went from $10 to $15, myself included. That's just barely keeping up with inflation and increased production costs, though. They would have to charge even more in order to include all the proper paint applications that we want. Either that, or the quality of the toys would have to drop even further to offset the cost of more paint.
>

Remember when the 2007 movie toys had the Premium Edition toys come out towards the end of the toyline? It was all the toys I had already bought with tons more paint apps.

> It's kind of like when the Armada toys came out and the MRSP was around $12 or $13. Hasbro argued that you were basically getting two Transformers now, a regular one and a tiny one. That's kind of how the Titan Masters are. (They got rid of the pack-in comic books, at least, which I think was a sensible move.)
>

The comics were kind of a cool idea, but they were so disjointed, I couldn't figure out the comic order very easily. I'd like to find some collected edition of the comics, but I'm not sure IDW does that.

[Gustavo Wombat, of the Seattle Wombats]

On Sunday, August 28, 2016 at 5:47:07 PM UTC-7, Zobovor wrote:
> On Sunday, August 28, 2016 at 5:45:07 PM UTC-6, Gustavo Wombat, of the Seattle Wombats wrote:
>
> > The toys are a lot more expensive than they used to be, and a lot smaller, so
> > I think Hasbro could spring for a few more paint operations.
>
> That's the problem Hasbro is facing, though. Production costs have jumped up universally. Sometimes they respond by making the product smaller (the regular containers of Play-Doh recently went from the standard 5-oz. can that we all grew up with to this tiny, pathetically bite-sized 3-oz. can). Sometimes they reduce the number of moving parts in a toy (the main Star Wars toy line).
>
> They can't really do either of these things with Transformers without people crying foul. Transformers need x amount of moving parts or else they can't transform. They've already reduced the number of parts required to assemble the toys (fewer metal pins than ever before). Just about the only things left in the budget they can cut are packaging costs and paint applications.

There were a few toys in the TF:Prime line that were upsized Cyberverse toys, and they were awesome. They got lots of paint applications, and had simple, straightforward but effective transformations.

I think they were an experiment with another way of cheapening the toyline, and for some reason Hasbro decided they failed.

I might be completely out of step with most fans, but I want good representations of the characters, first and foremost, and then complicated transformations.

They also seem to choose the least effective paint operations.

Wheeljack looks terrible without his chest windows being painted, but could have lost either the red or the green and still looked pretty Wheeljacky. (probably better to lose the green)

Blurr has slightly darker blue paint on top of dark blue plastic.

Generations Nightbeat had back windows painted the same color as the plastic they were made out of.

The TF:PrimeRID toys have a much better approach, with most toys having flat black plus a single color, sometimes with trim. The reduced palettes keeps the toys' paint operations down which still evoking the characters, but it starts with the character design.

The PrimeRID toys honestly seem to be better quality and more successful at what they set out to do than the Nostalgia lines.

> > And I have no idea what's up with Blurr -- he seems like they picked the
> > wrong base color entirely, and then blew their paint budget painting other
> > parts darker.
>
> Maybe they were trying to differentiate him from his case-mate, Scourge? Of course, the solution would have been to just ship Wolfwire or Mindwipe or somebody first, and push back Scourge for a later wave.

Also, both Blurr and Scourge look like big blue robots in the packaging...

[Ramen Junkie]

On 8/28/2016 7:47 PM, Zobovor wrote:
> On Sunday, August 28, 2016 at 5:45:07 PM UTC-6, Gustavo Wombat, of the Seattle Wombats wrote:
>
>> The toys are a lot more expensive than they used to be, and a lot smaller, so
>> I think Hasbro could spring for a few more paint operations.
>
> That's the problem Hasbro is facing, though. Production costs have jumped up universally. Sometimes they respond by making the product smaller (the regular containers of Play-Doh recently went from the standard 5-oz. can that we all grew up with to this tiny, pathetically bite-sized 3-oz. can). Sometimes they reduce the number of moving parts in a toy (the main Star Wars toy line).
>
> They can't really do either of these things with Transformers without people crying foul. Transformers need x amount of moving parts or else they can't transform. They've already reduced the number of parts required to assemble the toys (fewer metal pins than ever before). Just about the only things left in the budget they can cut are packaging costs and paint applications.
>
> A lot of people balked when Deluxe-class toys went from $10 to $15, myself included. That's just barely keeping up with inflation and increased production costs, though. They would have to charge even more in order to include all the proper paint applications that we want. Either that, or the quality of the toys would have to drop even further to offset the cost of more paint.
>
> It's kind of like when the Armada toys came out and the MRSP was around $12 or $13. Hasbro argued that you were basically getting two Transformers now, a regular one and a tiny one. That's kind of how the Titan Masters are. (They got rid of the pack-in comic books, at least, which I think was a sensible move.)
>

I'm pretty OK with Transformers the way they are, I really wish they
would maybe bump up Marvel Legends by $5 or ditch the stupid BAF gimmick
(or even both) for some better paint, joints and accessories (instead of
BAF parts).

--
Ramen Junkie

Supreme Dictator for Life, alt.games.final-fantasy

[William A. Rendfeld]

For the record? I've said many times that I'm getting both versions. My Computron's going to be a mix of both the Hasbro version (Strafe, Scrounge, Afterburner and the box set's Scattershot), the Takara version (Nosecone and Lightspeed, plus the guns from the Japanese versions), and some custom parts from Perfect Effect.

Yes, Computron's still going to have a Superion head, but the face will have a mouth rather than a mouthplate and a different chest. Plus two guns, because dual wielding is awesome.

[banzait...@gmail.com]

> For the record? I've said many times that I'm getting both versions. My Computron's going to be a mix of both the Hasbro version (Strafe, Scrounge, Afterburner and the box set's Scattershot), the Takara version (Nosecone and Lightspeed, plus the guns from the Japanese versions), and some custom parts from Perfect Effect.
>
> Yes, Computron's still going to have a Superion head, but the face will have a mouth rather than a mouthplate and a different chest. Plus two guns, because dual wielding is awesome.

Well. That's one way to solve it. Just say eff-it and throw $350 at the problem. While your at it, why not have the extra one gold plated so you can play out the Golden Lagoon II.

-Banzaitron

[Zobovor]

On Monday, August 29, 2016 at 8:53:38 PM UTC-6, banzait...@gmail.com wrote:

> Well. That's one way to solve it. Just say eff-it and throw $350 at the
> problem. While your at it, why not have the extra one gold plated so you can
> play out the Golden Lagoon II.

Times like this I wish you could upvote a post to Usenet.


Zob (hee hee)

[Gustavo Wombat, of the Seattle Wombats]

Just because you are poor doesn't mean everyone else is. Have a little empathy, man.

No one criticizes you when you go dumpster diving behind the finer restaurants in town, since it's the only way you'll ever get to taste a bearnaise sauce, and you probably have no idea what tarragon even is, or the difference between a bagel and a bialy.

You have no idea of the prison that affluence can become -- so many possessions, and so little time to fully possess each of them. And the insurance... Oh, they will rape you with the insurance.

The other day, I was driving home, and I realized that I was out of pot, so I stopped at the pot shop up the street. And then, on my way home from there, I saw my house from the opposite side and realized that the entire east wing had been burnt out and gutted sometime in the last few months. All my beast wars toys, gone. Also, I had wondered why my houseboy wasn't around -- the servant's quarters were over there. I hope he got out ok. How do you even begin to fill out the insurance forms on that?

Do you know how much a good houseboy costs?

[Irrellius Spamticon of the Potato People.]

Why should you know, don't you have people to handle the minor minutae?

I like both Computrons, and probably will end up with neither. Both have molds I don't have other versions of, and some retools.

Considering it's the same factory, I would have thought it would be most cost effective for Hasbro to just agree to whatever molds Takara used (less R&D, less physical mold creation), but I'm not in charge of these things.

[Manic]

On Sunday, August 28, 2016 at 9:23:27 AM UTC-7, banzait...@gmail.com wrote:

> After reviewing the article in detail, I can honestly say I think the Hasbro version is better. It's close for sure, but everyone seems to automatically crown the Takara version as superior. I agree that Takara's version of nose cone and lightspeed is the far and away winner. However, I think Hasbro wins with the other three molds. Nobody seems to care that the Hasbro version is taller, has a better head sculpt with longer antennas, and COMES WITH AN EXTRA FIGURE!? (Not to mention the Takara version will cost you significantly more!)

While that is you opinion and you are certainly entitled to it and I respect it, I do not share it. I, personally, couldn't care less if the Hasbro version comes with an extra figure rather what I care about is getting Computron. Had the Hasbro offering been the superior product, I would most certainly have chosen their version but I find there is one significant flaw in the Hasbro Computron: the colours are horrible and garish.

I feel it is a bit ridiculous to claim "racism" when it comes to what a consumer decides to spend their money on. All of the Combiner Wars toys I have are the Hasbro versions, but even though I would buy up a Hasbro toy without a second thought, I can plainly see that they are lazy when it comes to remolding toys into different characters. Blast Off is the most blatant offender, just taking Slingshot and giving him a new paint job without even changing the head to actually LOOK like Blast Off. Takara, on the other hand, did such extensive retooling to their Blast Off for Strafe, that I would never have recognized them as the same mold had it not been pointed out. Meanwhile, Hasbro took Brawl and replaced his turret with a measly little drill. Sure, the Hasbro version may be cheaper than the Takara version but, in this case, it really is an instance of you get what you pay for.

> I get that all of this is completely subjective, but I just want to make the point that I think the fandom needs to stop blindly groveling at the feet of Takara. They are not ALWAYS superior to Hasbro.

No, they are not always superior. In fact, other than Takara's modifications to Blast Off and Vortex, I feel the Hasbro version is the better product with better colours. But the case of the two Computrons is night and day with Takara Computron looking like Computron while Hasbro Computron looks like Superion got a funky paint job and took on a bunch of limbs which bear a decent resemblance to the Technobots.

Where the Takara version is clearly inferior is the inclusion of the garbage HFG pieces, but I would have replaced them with the Perfect Effect versions anyway, as I have with the other combiners I own.

I am perfectly happy with how my Hasbro Devastator looks, I love my Hasbro Superion. Now that I have the Hasbro release of Groove, I am satisfied with how Defensor looks (the blue chest of the Takara version looks a bit better, but it doesn't make me dislike the Hasbro one), Menasor is a mixed bag but I think that is the case whether it is Hasbro or Takara and the Perfect Effect upgrades improve it with some concessions, ultimately my least favourite of the combiner toys. Hasbro Bruticus is awesome and, if they were to release a version of shuttle Blast Off, I would easily replace the Slingshot cosplay component.

In the end, it's my money and whichever product fits my taste the best is the one I will spend it on. I have no problem with that being Hasbro OR Takara.

On Sunday, August 28, 2016 at 11:18:47 AM UTC-7, Zobovor wrote:

> Unless you're being tongue-in-cheek, of course. It's hard to tell on a text-based forum sometimes.

Indeed. I have also wondered if it was an over-the-top sarcastic joke. The #HasbroLiveMatter bit strongly suggests that it is, in which case Banzaitron got me on this one.

[banzait...@gmail.com]

> Unless you're being tongue-in-cheek, of course. It's hard to tell on a text-based forum sometimes.

Definitely a joke. It's a nod to how everyone in America seems to be offended by everything these days. Someone sent me an article the other day about how the NATIONAL ANTHEM is racist and based on the ownership of slaves. Sigh...

-Banzaitron

[Zobovor]

On Tuesday, August 30, 2016 at 7:25:02 PM UTC-6, banzait...@gmail.com wrote:

> Someone sent me an article the other day about how the NATIONAL ANTHEM is
> racist and based on the ownership of slaves.

Not the national anthem as we know it today, but the original long version. There's a whole forgotten stanza about African-American slaves being freed to fight on the side of the British army when they stormed Washington, D.C. in the early 1800's. Francis Scott Key wrote about how "no refuge could save the slaves from the terror of the grave" or somesuch.

Slave culture was just entrenched into American society to the point where it likely didn't dawn on well-meaning white folks how despicable it was. To them, owning a black slave was no more or less morally reprehensible than owning a dog or a mule. Not defending slave ownership, but I can understand how the sentiment might have made its way into the song (which actually wasn't officially declared the national anthem until many decades later).


Zob (not a sports enthusiast, but I can't say I blame Colin Kaepernick at all for not being a huge fan of the song)

[Gustavo Wombat, of the Seattle Wombats]

On Tuesday, August 30, 2016 at 3:23:36 AM UTC-7, Irrellius Spamticon of the Potato People. wrote:
> On Tuesday, August 30, 2016 at 12:08:40 AM UTC-5, Gustavo Wombat, of the Seattle Wombats wrote:
> > On Monday, August 29, 2016 at 7:53:38 PM UTC-7, banzait...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > For the record? I've said many times that I'm getting both versions. My Computron's going to be a mix of both the Hasbro version (Strafe, Scrounge, Afterburner and the box set's Scattershot), the Takara version (Nosecone and Lightspeed, plus the guns from the Japanese versions), and some custom parts from Perfect Effect.
> > > >
> > > > Yes, Computron's still going to have a Superion head, but the face will have a mouth rather than a mouthplate and a different chest. Plus two guns, because dual wielding is awesome.
> > >
> > > Well. That's one way to solve it. Just say eff-it and throw $350 at the problem. While your at it, why not have the extra one gold plated so you can play out the Golden Lagoon II.
> >
> > Just because you are poor doesn't mean everyone else is. Have a little empathy, man.
> >
> > No one criticizes you when you go dumpster diving behind the finer restaurants in town, since it's the only way you'll ever get to taste a bearnaise sauce, and you probably have no idea what tarragon even is, or the difference between a bagel and a bialy.
> >
> > You have no idea of the prison that affluence can become -- so many possessions, and so little time to fully possess each of them. And the insurance... Oh, they will rape you with the insurance.
> >
> > The other day, I was driving home, and I realized that I was out of pot, so I stopped at the pot shop up the street. And then, on my way home from there, I saw my house from the opposite side and realized that the entire east wing had been burnt out and gutted sometime in the last few months. All my beast wars toys, gone. Also, I had wondered why my houseboy wasn't around -- the servant's quarters were over there. I hope he got out ok. How do you even begin to fill out the insurance forms on that?
> >
> > Do you know how much a good houseboy costs?
>
> Why should you know, don't you have people to handle the minor minutae?

That was the houseboy, probably lost in the fire that took out the East Wing.

> Considering it's the same factory, I would have thought it would be most cost effective for Hasbro to just agree to whatever molds Takara used (less R&D, less physical mold creation), but I'm not in charge of these things.

This baffles me a little bit too. Take the Titans Returns heads, for instance -- it surprises me that Hasbro knows and cares enough about the characters to want different heads at all, and not just go with the Takara heads.

[banzait...@gmail.com]

> > Considering it's the same factory, I would have thought it would be most cost effective for Hasbro to just agree to whatever molds Takara used (less R&D, less physical mold creation), but I'm not in charge of these things.
>
> This baffles me a little bit too. Take the Titans Returns heads, for instance -- it surprises me that Hasbro knows and cares enough about the characters to want different heads at all, and not just go with the Takara heads.

The only possible scenario this makes any sense is if Hasbro designs the toys first. There is absolutely no way Hasbro would go out of their way to increase costs.

-Banzaitron

[Zobovor]

On Wednesday, August 31, 2016 at 6:51:10 PM UTC-6, banzait...@gmail.com wrote:

>> It surprises me that Hasbro knows and cares enough about the characters to

>> want different heads at all, and not just go with the Takara heads.
>
> The only possible scenario this makes any sense is if Hasbro designs the toys
> first. There is absolutely no way Hasbro would go out of their way to
> increase costs.

At a guess, I'd say what's probably happening is that Hasbro is creating and designing the toys, and then once Takara gets ahold of the designs, they're making tweaks to the paint jobs and the head sculpts based on what they want for their market. I don't think it's a matter of Hasbro looking at a Takara head sculpt for Fortress from Headmasters and going, "Nope, we want to spend more money and make it look like Cerebros from 'The Rebirth' instead."


Zob (really wants Takara Blurr now... sigh)