Why is Power of the Primes So Disappointing?

[Zobovor]

Well, it's official. I'm just really disappointed in the Power of the Primes line. And I don't really know exactly why.

Combiner Wars was great. They came up with a combination technology that really worked well, and we finally got updates for a lot of great second- and third-tier characters. The line was a little heavy on redeco toys near the end there, but that's really just about the only bad thing I have to say about the line.

Titans Return just blew me away, pretty much from start to finish. So many great updates of even more obscure characters. I never thought that the 1987 characters would be so prominently featured in any capacity. At first, I thought it was a little weird that characters like Blaster and Optimus were Headmasters, but the truth is that I loved the play pattern and I eventually fully embraced the Headmasterification of the Jumpstarters, Monsterbots, etc. I loved Titans Return so much that I'm actually a little sad that the new toys aren't Headmasters.

The character selection for Power of the Primes is a little unfocused, since it seems to be a fairly random sampling of characters, most of which have been done already in some neo-G1 capacity. Instead of Hasbro going, "Okay, let's systematically start knocking out every one of the 1988 Powermasters!" they give us Combiner Wars versions of Jazz, Starscream, Inferno, etc. Which would have been great, during Combiner Wars. It's just not as exciting now, especially since the toys of these characters just aren't very good. Special Ops Jazz from Reveal the Shield is much better. Classics/Universe Starscream is SO much better. And don't even get me started on Hot Sp... I mean Inferno.

I do like that we've been getting new versions of characters who hadn't been updated yet, like Dreadwind and Darkwing and the Terrorcons. I would say that, so far, Rippersnapper is the crown jewel of Power of the Primes. I feel like just about everybody else has got major design problems. I hate Hun-Gurr's beast form. Grimlock's T. rex mode is kind of lousy. Moonracer's backpack is bigger than she is. During Combiner Wars and Titans Return, they were consistently knocking it out of the park, and now it's a swing and a miss almost every time. Either Hasbro switched to a different design team who doesn't really know what they're doing, or else they're just getting tired of G1 updates and are just going through the motions at this point. I think either is possible.

Even the Targetmaster Pretenders just don't grab me. I like that there ARE Targetmasters, and I like that there ARE Pretenders, but mixing up the two feels weird and wrong. And I just don't like the whole Prime Master ecosystem. Having to use the Prime Armor as an adaptor to accommodate the Prime Masters feels like a cheat. It would have been like having to wrap a secondary adaptor around the Titans Return toys to attach the Headmasters. The current Powermasters feel totally disingenuous. You're not plugging a power source into their bodies; you're plugging it into a random chunk of plastic that you can stick on their arms.

Is it going to get better? I mean, there are more Terrorcons coming, and I'm pretty excited about them. The rumored Seacons and Pretender Monsters have the potential to be good, too, if they're sufficiently remolded and not just straight Dinobot and Terrorcon redecos. As for the rest, though... for me, this toy line has been kind of a letdown.


Zob (likes the new Lost in Space TV series on Netflix so far, though)

[brianj...@gmail.com]

It's a valid point, and you're right, it is kind of difficult to pinpoint exactly what the difference is.

I guess the first point to consider is that combiners and Headmasters were both pretty easy to update. With combiners all that had to be done was find a more stable way to combine and give some possibility. Even the combination plug wasn't too tricky since so many of the original toys had lay down on their chest transformations. This meant that since the chest wasn't integral to the transformation, the plug could be built in right there. They only really needed to get clever with a few.

Headmaster technology actually probably made the toys much easier to design. Not having the necessity to find away a head in vehicle form meant that more effort could be put into the transformation of the rest of the body. And those heads are pretty big (like Action Master proportions), so that makes quite a difference.

To be fair to Hasbro, I could never quite come up with a great update idea for Powermasters, Pretenders, or Micromasters.

For Powermasters, yeah you could make all 6 of them but where do you go from there? Drag Strip and Hot Rod are the only other characters I can think of off the top of my head that have exposed engines that they could sneak in, but they of course were already done. Ok I guess if you had G2 Ramjet and Starscream PMs from their voice boxes that would be pretty cool. But other than that it would seem pretty dishonest to just throw engines on Skids, Grapple, or Sureshot.

Pretenders are even worse. The idea of putting a toy in a shell in 2018 in unacceptable. So what do we do? Reimagine the characters before they were Pretenders and forget about the shells? Have just the shells transform into a likeness of the vehicle form like Bludgeon and Thunderwing? It's interesting to see that during Titans Return that the extra heads at the low price point were considered superfluous accessories whereas in PotP that same price point is more considered part of the line.

It's almost like Hasbro had a 5 year plan: Combiners, Headmasters, Beasts, Targetmasters, Pretenders. Beasts would have of course been the combiner beasts as well as a few new Beast Wars toys that we used to discuss. Then Targetmasters kind of fell apart when Takara introduced them with Titans Return. So as things were getting all jumbled up Hasbro decided to lessen the plan to 3 years and to move on to the next idea and just through all their half worked out ideas into PotP. heck, that would explain weird additions like Jazz and Inferno. They were originally going to be Targetmasters Stepper and Artfire! The random addition of the Prime packs could also come into that after they abandoned TMs and PMs.

I don't really think that's what happened (more like I hope that's what happened), but there is something very palpable in the difference between TR and PotP that is very hard to place. Maybe it's just that these new toys are noticeably uglier?

[Travoltron]

On 4/18/2018 7:58 PM, Zobovor wrote:
> Even the Targetmaster Pretenders just don't grab me.

They don't seem to grab anyone.
They're total pegwarmers around these parts. Would have had more play
value if the little figure was a Headmaster or something instead of
transforming into a blob.

[Irrellius Spamticon of the Potato People.]

On Wednesday, April 18, 2018 at 9:58:50 PM UTC-5, Zobovor wrote:
> Well, it's official. I'm just really disappointed in the Power of the Primes line. And I don't really know exactly why.
>

I think the combiner torsos suffer from not being interesting after reusing a lot of older mold designs.

> Combiner Wars was great. They came up with a combination technology that really worked well, and we finally got updates for a lot of great second- and third-tier characters. The line was a little heavy on redeco toys near the end there, but that's really just about the only bad thing I have to say about the line.
>

PotP just uses a lot of CW tech. We got a lot of new molds, but a concept that was used before.

> Titans Return just blew me away, pretty much from start to finish. So many great updates of even more obscure characters. I never thought that the 1987 characters would be so prominently featured in any capacity. At first, I thought it was a little weird that characters like Blaster and Optimus were Headmasters, but the truth is that I loved the play pattern and I eventually fully embraced the Headmasterification of the Jumpstarters, Monsterbots, etc. I loved Titans Return so much that I'm actually a little sad that the new toys aren't Headmasters.
>
> The character selection for Power of the Primes is a little unfocused, since it seems to be a fairly random sampling of characters, most of which have been done already in some neo-G1 capacity. Instead of Hasbro going, "Okay, let's systematically start knocking out every one of the 1988 Powermasters!" they give us Combiner Wars versions of Jazz, Starscream, Inferno, etc. Which would have been great, during Combiner Wars. It's just not as exciting now, especially since the toys of these characters just aren't very good. Special Ops Jazz from Reveal the Shield is much better. Classics/Universe Starscream is SO much better. And don't even get me started on Hot Sp... I mean Inferno.
>
> I do like that we've been getting new versions of characters who hadn't been updated yet, like Dreadwind and Darkwing and the Terrorcons. I would say that, so far, Rippersnapper is the crown jewel of Power of the Primes. I feel like just about everybody else has got major design problems. I hate Hun-Gurr's beast form. Grimlock's T. rex mode is kind of lousy. Moonracer's backpack is bigger than she is. During Combiner Wars and Titans Return, they were consistently knocking it out of the park, and now it's a swing and a miss almost every time. Either Hasbro switched to a different design team who doesn't really know what they're doing, or else they're just getting tired of G1 updates and are just going through the motions at this point. I think either is possible.
>
> Even the Targetmaster Pretenders just don't grab me. I like that there ARE Targetmasters, and I like that there ARE Pretenders, but mixing up the two feels weird and wrong. And I just don't like the whole Prime Master ecosystem. Having to use the Prime Armor as an adaptor to accommodate the Prime Masters feels like a cheat. It would have been like having to wrap a secondary adaptor around the Titans Return toys to attach the Headmasters. The current Powermasters feel totally disingenuous. You're not plugging a power source into their bodies; you're plugging it into a random chunk of plastic that you can stick on their arms.
>

The Targetmaster Pretenders do a lot better job than some of the Titan Master vehicles, and have a lot more detail, but they suffer from all having the same transformation. Yes, there are a few remolds, but its 7 times the same thing. Imagine if there were a whole line of toys that all had the G1 Jumpstarter transformation. Yo would get bored, and only buy one off the shelf. I also think the retailers buy into so much of the first wave of any line, then when the second wave comes out, they are still flush with the first wave. We rarely see the last waves of any line. Cogman never made it here, I saw exactly one Slugslinger here, and bought him. His Titanmaster is misassembled, but I won't risk sending him back.

Sure all standard Pretender shells in G1 were all the same transformation wise, but the inner robots were slightly different. The inner robots still sucked. I got my G1 pretenders out when PotP first came out, and I am reminded just how terrible they were. Iguanus is supposed to be a motorcycle? He looks like a blob o top of his weapon. At least now the shells do a bit more, even if the filling does way less. The filling never did much, but at least it tried horribly. It'd be cool if we could get a little Micromaster in the shell, something liek a car, or a jet, or a bulldozer. The Primes just don't make sense to someone who isn't following the story, and they are very confusing. They made them the same shape and format as the Titanmaster heads, there is a lot of cross-play available, but it doesn't make much sense.

The Prime armor is just terrible. There's no way around it, it sucks. The giant feet and hands are terrible, at least in CW they formed pseudo weapons, but now with the exception of Starscream and Moonracer, it's just a shield every time.

> Is it going to get better? I mean, there are more Terrorcons coming, and I'm pretty excited about them. The rumored Seacons and Pretender Monsters have the potential to be good, too, if they're sufficiently remolded and not just straight Dinobot and Terrorcon redecos. As for the rest, though... for me, this toy line has been kind of a letdown.
>

The incomplete Combiners frustrate me. There was never official team to go with Cyclonus or Starscream, we get half a team to go with Elita-1, and the US never got correct Technobots.

I'm going to get the Terrorcons, and probably the Seacons, but tiny Darkwing and Dreadwind just don't seem right to me, they're smaller than ever.

[Gustavo Wombat, of the Seattle Wombats]

On Wednesday, April 18, 2018 at 7:58:50 PM UTC-7, Zobovor wrote:
> Well, it's official. I'm just really disappointed in the Power of the Primes line. And I don't really know exactly why.

Because you are suffering from depression, and losing interest in everything you are passionate about? It's either that, or the toys just aren't doing it.

> Combiner Wars was great. They came up with a combination technology that really worked well, and we finally got updates for a lot of great second- and third-tier characters. The line was a little heavy on redeco toys near the end there, but that's really just about the only bad thing I have to say about the line.

I bought Megatronia, and she is just a bunch of redecos of Victorion, who was just a bunch of remolds of Combiner Wars toys. And, I love Megatronia.

I don't have that love for anything in PotP. The two limb Dinobots I have are great (someday, I will see wave 2), but Grimlock is weak.

Had I been able to complete my Volcanus in a timely manner, I might be more excited by him, but he just seems incomplete, and with a poor torso, and I'm getting used to him being incomplete... And Starscream and Elita-1 are always going to be incomplete. And Inferno.

Combiner Wars came out strong, with each wave being a complete combiner, so you got your full toy. Ok, there were weird things, like Sky Reign, and whatever Optimus Combine was really called, but mostly a complete set of toys that belong together. And a few extras.

PotP just feels like a lot of extras. Also, Starscream kind of sucks. And Grimlock is not great. And the new hands are bad. And the feet... bad with sockets in them...

I think if they started with Terrorcons as wave one, then Elita-1nfinite (with four femmebots as limbs), then Dinobots (G2 colors, just to stand out on the shelves), and proceeded like that, the line would have been better received.

> Titans Return just blew me away, pretty much from start to finish. So many great updates of even more obscure characters. I never thought that the 1987 characters would be so prominently featured in any capacity. At first, I thought it was a little weird that characters like Blaster and Optimus were Headmasters, but the truth is that I loved the play pattern and I eventually fully embraced the Headmasterification of the Jumpstarters, Monsterbots, etc. I loved Titans Return so much that I'm actually a little sad that the new toys aren't Headmasters.

I also completely love Titans Return.

> The character selection for Power of the Primes is a little unfocused, since it seems to be a fairly random sampling of characters, most of which have been done already in some neo-G1 capacity. Instead of Hasbro going, "Okay, let's systematically start knocking out every one of the 1988 Powermasters!" they give us Combiner Wars versions of Jazz, Starscream, Inferno, etc. Which would have been great, during Combiner Wars.

If they were great toys, they would be great now.

> It's just not as exciting now, especially since the toys of these characters just aren't very good. Special Ops Jazz from Reveal the Shield is much better. Classics/Universe Starscream is SO much better. And don't even get me started on Hot Sp... I mean Inferno.

I like Jazz. He's not the iconic Jazz, and I would have happily accepted that mold as a different character, but he's fine. Why does he combine with Elita-1... no idea.

I would have loved an F-15 Starscream as a limb, and the rest of the Seekers (fine, there are six limbs... pick your favorite), and a tank or bomber Megatron as a core. Bonus points if he just has two extra sockets to use all six limbs.

Or the Predators, with redecos as Machine Wars toys.

> Even the Targetmaster Pretenders just don't grab me. I like that there ARE Targetmasters, and I like that there ARE Pretenders, but mixing up the two feels weird and wrong. And I just don't like the whole Prime Master ecosystem. Having to use the Prime Armor as an adaptor to accommodate the Prime Masters feels like a cheat. It would have been like having to wrap a secondary adaptor around the Titans Return toys to attach the Headmasters. The current Powermasters feel totally disingenuous. You're not plugging a power source into their bodies; you're plugging it into a random chunk of plastic that you can stick on their arms.

I love the Targetmaster Pretender bodies. But I don't really see the value of the Primemaster blocks -- I would rather they just be more Headmasters inside. Either the heads for the inner robots, or entirely new heads to represent the Primes.

(I would have happily paid $22.99 to get a set of Bomb-Burst shell, headmaster and Deluxe sized no-longer-inner-robot (transforming into a space plane thing, like the inner robot did, take liberties with that), which can have the shell attached in Targetmaster mode. More expensive, but more toy.

I still desperately want a Skuxxoid Primemaster shell, and the rest of those types of characters.

> Is it going to get better? I mean, there are more Terrorcons coming, and I'm pretty excited about them. The rumored Seacons and Pretender Monsters have the potential to be good, too, if they're sufficiently remolded and not just straight Dinobot and Terrorcon redecos. As for the rest, though... for me, this toy line has been kind of a letdown.

Are you telling me that you wouldn't be excited to see Dinobots in Seacon colors?

[Gustavo Wombat, of the Seattle Wombats]

On Wednesday, April 18, 2018 at 7:58:50 PM UTC-7, Zobovor wrote:
>

Oh, and I hate, hate, hate the new hands and feet.

[William A. Rendfeld]

The only thing that really disappoints me about the Power of the Primes line is that it feels like it's cut down compared to what came before. We aren't even getting all twelve Primes as Prime Masters, just eight or nine (and one of them is going to be packed-in with Predaking). Also, the meat of the line just seems to be less than we had with previous ones.

Seriously, Combiner Wars gave us six complete teams (plus two or three extra torsos) over the course of six waves. Power of the Primes is giving us two complete teams, plus three-fifths of two more and two-fifths of a fifth.

A part of me is wondering if the line was cut down, and what it would've been had we gotten eighteen months instead of twelve.

[Zobovor]

On Friday, April 20, 2018 at 4:59:43 AM UTC-6, William A. Rendfeld wrote:

> We aren't even getting all twelve Primes as Prime Masters, just eight or nine

I... had not heard about this. What the hell is the point of all the pack-in cards that advertise these characters, then?

Seriously, that's really dumb.

> A part of me is wondering if the line was cut down, and what it would've been
> had we gotten eighteen months instead of twelve.

I guess it's possible. I doubt that Hasbro trimmed the line down in response to the fan reaction, though. By the time they saw fan feedback, the entire line would already have been in development.

The good thing about it only being a twelve month toy line is that we'll get to whatever comes AFTER Power of the Primes that much sooner. And, honestly, it can only get better.


Zob (I mean, it can't get much worse...)

[Zobovor]

On Thursday, April 19, 2018 at 9:43:33 PM UTC-6, Gustavo Wombat, of the Seattle Wombats wrote:

> Because you are suffering from depression, and losing interest in everything
> you are passionate about?

I actually considered that! I thought at first that maybe it wasn't the toy line; maybe it was me? But, it's been months since the toy line made its debut. I haven't lost interest in other stuff I love, so I don't think that's it. I've been really happy with the Masterpiece toy line, for example. (Also, I still love Rippersnapper. He's fantastic.)

> PotP just feels like a lot of extras.

I think that's a major component of the problem. A toy line like Combiner Wars gave us what was arguably the new, definitive version of Air Raid, Breakdown, etc. Thanks to Titans Return, we won't ever need a new version of Skullcruncher, Triggerhappy, etc.

With Power of the Primes, we're getting a lot of random, inferior versions of characters. Extras, as you said. The upcoming Inferno isn't as good as the 2008 toy. Jazz doesn't beat the Special Ops edition. Grimlock... well, he's better than the Classics toy from 2006, but nothing has really managed to top the G1 toy yet.

> Are you telling me that you wouldn't be excited to see Dinobots in Seacon
> colors?

I actually have a knockoff of the Transformers Juniors version of Soundwave in Seacon colors. Purple and magenta and teal. And I do love him.


Zob (would happily buy the PotP Dinobots in G2 colors, if they were available)

[Zobovor]

On Wednesday, April 18, 2018 at 9:38:56 PM UTC-6, brianj...@gmail.com wrote:

> For Powermasters, yeah you could make all 6 of them but where do you go from
> there? Drag Strip and Hot Rod are the only other characters I can think of
> off the top of my head that have exposed engines that they could sneak in,
> but they of course were already done.

Thanks for your thoughts on this. You raised some really interesting points.

I guess if they were committed to doing an entire toy line of Powermasters, they would have to do versions of characters with exposed engines who never had them before. After all, they Headmasterified a bunch of characters for Titans Return. Obviously, it would work better with some characters than others.

Oh, they could have done updates for the G2 Axelerators and the Laser Rods! Now THAT would have piqued my interest. I would never have complained about THAT toy line!

> Pretenders are even worse. The idea of putting a toy in a shell in 2018 is

> unacceptable. So what do we do?

The only way I can see it working is for the outer shell to be fully articulated, so it can still function as an action figure and not a brick. Which means that the inner robot would have to be pretty small, so you could stuff it into the torso of the shell but the legs and arms could still move.

> Reimagine the characters before they were Pretenders and forget about the
> shells?

That might work in some cases, but not all. The shells are far more recognizable. When you think of Stranglehold, you think of a mustachioed wrestler, not an orange-and-green rhinoceros. When you think of Longtooth, you think of a walrus monster, not a little red-and-grey car.

> Have just the shells transform into a likeness of the vehicle form like
> Bludgeon and Thunderwing?

Thunderwing was okay, because he was a Mega Pretender. His outer shell actually did transform into a vehicle during the G1 days. All we really lost was the inner robot/jet, and he almost never used that form in Marvel Comics.

To me, Bludgeon was a little less successful. (Also, he's one of the few Transformers I own that has bitten me and drawn blood, so I'm still mad at him.)

> It's interesting to see that during Titans Return that the extra heads at the
> low price point were considered superfluous accessories whereas in PotP that
> same price point is more considered part of the line.

I think Hasbro might have seen during Titans Return that we were a little upset that they were teasing us with "extra" heads that never had bodies to call their own.

> Then Targetmasters kind of fell apart when Takara introduced them with Titans
> Return.

That's a really fascinating theory. You would think that Hasbro would have communicated to Takara that they did have Targetmasters in the works. Maybe this is one of the cock-ups that eventually led to the unified toy line from both parties. (You know there had to have been SOME sort of impetus for that decision. It's not like Takara just woke up one morning and went, "Hey, let's just sell Hasbro toys from now on!")

> Heck, that would explain weird additions like Jazz and Inferno. They were

> originally going to be Targetmasters Stepper and Artfire!

By jove, you might be onto something there. Is it sad that I'm much more excited about that idea than Yet Another Jazz and Hey Look It's Inferno But Not Really?

> there is something very palpable in the difference between TR and PotP that
> is very hard to place. Maybe it's just that these new toys are noticeably
> uglier?

I know sometimes we get information about which designer actually conceived of the initial toy concepts. For example, we know that Emiliano Santalucia designed Titans Return Galvatron, and it's a thing of beauty. I would wager cash money that there's a different designer who came up with PotP Grimlock and Starscream and Hun-Gurrr. Their aesthetics are all off.


Zob (and by "off," I mean "ugly as sin")

[Zobovor]

On Thursday, April 19, 2018 at 9:44:45 PM UTC-6, Gustavo Wombat, of the Seattle Wombats wrote:

> Oh, and I hate, hate, hate the new hands and feet.

I get what they were trying to do. They didn't just want random fists and feet as loose, leftover pieces when the toys aren't combined together. Combiner Wars worked well enough, with a piece that could either serve as a fist or a foot, and doubled as a weapon carried by the Deluxe-level toy.

Since the new toys required some kind of Powermaster interactivity, Hasbro needed intermediate parts to accept the Prime Masters. Hasbro must haved asked themselves: If the same parts that came with the Deluxe toys turned into either fists or feet again, then what would the Voyager toys come with? Okay, so then the Deluxe parts will only turn into fists, and the feet will come with the Voyager toy. Problem solved. Wait, but if two robots turn into arms and two turn into legs, what to do with the two extra fists? Uh, plug 'em into the backs of the feet? Maybe? Who cares, it's late. Let's go get lunch.

It's an inelegant solution for a problem that Hasbro essentially created themselves.


Zob (Tonka GoBots Puzzler did it right)

[David Connell]

I honestly don't find POTP disappointing at all. It may not be as amazing as TR, but it's a solid line.

Fans have been asking for a Voyager-class Seeker, and we've got one now. Maybe not the best standalone figure but an excellent combiner core.

Dinobots, finally! With a new kid sister!

Another take on Jazz, long overdue after the messy, floppy-chested RTS Jazz. And he's a combiner limb, as well.

Buster and Hydra to go up against Ginrai.

Metalhawk's pretender suit, to complete the package (and give the TR figure some added firepower and a Powermaster.

Rodimus Prime, featuring Hasbro's answer to the Warbot Protector add-on

A novel take on Optimus, with the first authentic Orion Pax figure we've ever gotten.

Aelytah Won

Optimus Primal

Terrorcons, if you're into them

A Predaking that doesn't look like a disproportionate mess like the original (never had the least bit of interest in the classic due to the core being the same size as the limbs.)

IMO it's a solid end to the Prime Wars set.

[Zobovor]

On Tuesday, April 24, 2018 at 7:55:47 AM UTC-6, David Connell wrote:

> I honestly don't find POTP disappointing at all. It may not be as amazing as
> TR, but it's a solid line.

Okay, let's explore this on a case-by-case basis.

> Fans have been asking for a Voyager-class Seeker, and we've got one now.
> Maybe not the best standalone figure but an excellent combiner core.

I wasn't aware of a fan demand for a Voyager version of Starscream, but even if that were the case, surely the one we got isn't the one people wanted.

I will admit that if this Starscream had been released during G1, it would have been amazing. But as a modern-day release, it's seriously lacking.

> Dinobots, finally! With a new kid sister!

Some of the Dinobots are very good, but Grimlock is a disappointment. Shoehorning the combiner gimmick into his design really, really hurt the toy.

I found this on eBay recently:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/112816635428

Will you LOOK at that damn thing. It's gorgeous. It's so utterly Grimlock that it hurts. He looks dynamic and powerful and so awesome. Granted, this specific toy is only about Legends sized, but can you imagine if it were scaled up to Deluxe or Voyager size? I would buy the hell out of this thing. I may yet still. And it's not even official. But it captures Grimlock perfectly. Why can a random third party company do this when Hasbro themselves cannot?!

> Another take on Jazz, long overdue after the messy, floppy-chested RTS Jazz.
> And he's a combiner limb, as well.

I feel like it's the Power of the Primes edition of Jazz that's the floppy-chested mess, honestly. I think it's the worst version of Jazz we've ever gotten. No toy of him has ever disappointed me like this one has.

> Buster and Hydra to go up against Ginrai.

I would be happier with Dreadwind if I could find a second gun for him. I managed it with Titans Return Hardhead and Chromedome, but no luck on Dreadwind so far. (Maybe Nonnef Productions will eventually do something.)

> Metalhawk's pretender suit, to complete the package (and give the TR figure
> some added firepower and a Powermaster.

Metalhawk doesn't really interest me as a character. The rest of the Pretenders are disappointingly small, though. I want full-scale updates, not tiny Targetmaster versions of them.

> Rodimus Prime, featuring Hasbro's answer to the Warbot Protector add-on

I like the Hot Rod component. The Rodimus transformation is unnecessarily large and awkward, and I always feel like I'm going to break the toy. It just doesn't seem like a very successful update to me.

> A novel take on Optimus, with the first authentic Orion Pax figure we've ever
> gotten.

The robot mode is authentic, but why does Orion Pax transform into Optimus Prime's vehicle mode?

> Aelytah Won

You misspelled Uhleeeeeta.

> Optimus Primal

I've mostly been regarding the toy line in terms of what's been released to date. If the new Optimal Optimus is absolutely amazing, I may revise my opinion of the line somewhat.

> Terrorcons, if you're into them

The Terrorcons may be the saving grace of the entire toy line. Well, maybe not Hun-Gurrr, but definitely the other four, if the three unreleased ones are anything like Rippersnapper.

> A Predaking that doesn't look like a disproportionate mess like the original
>(never had the least bit of interest in the classic due to the core being the
> same size as the limbs.)

I want to wait until I own the new Predaking to pass judgment on it, but from what I've seen in online photos, it's got design issues. It's very difficult to get past the idea that Predaking's upper legs just fold up and hang off of Tantrum and Headstrong's back. That's just a terrible design idea.

> IMO it's a solid end to the Prime Wars set.

I look forward to the future——whatever comes after Power of the Primes. And hopefully whoever designed Titans Return is working on it.


Zob (hating inventory at work more and more with each passing year)

[eric....@gmail.com]

I don't feel that this line is horrible, but there are much fewer figures that I feel the need to buy at full price than TR. The thing that disappoints me most about it is that it supposed to be all about the Primes, but we don't even get all 12 of them.

[Irrellius Spamticon of the Potato People.]

On Tuesday, April 24, 2018 at 1:54:50 PM UTC-5, Zobovor wrote:
> On Tuesday, April 24, 2018 at 7:55:47 AM UTC-6, David Connell wrote:
>
> > I honestly don't find POTP disappointing at all. It may not be as amazing as
> > TR, but it's a solid line.
>
> Okay, let's explore this on a case-by-case basis.
>
> > Fans have been asking for a Voyager-class Seeker, and we've got one now.
> > Maybe not the best standalone figure but an excellent combiner core.
>
> I wasn't aware of a fan demand for a Voyager version of Starscream, but even if that were the case, surely the one we got isn't the one people wanted.
>
> I will admit that if this Starscream had been released during G1, it would have been amazing. But as a modern-day release, it's seriously lacking.
>

Nobody was asking for a Voyager seeker that I knew of. If anything they were asking for limbs for CW Cyclonus, not another torso minus limbs.

> > Dinobots, finally! With a new kid sister!
>
> Some of the Dinobots are very good, but Grimlock is a disappointment. Shoehorning the combiner gimmick into his design really, really hurt the toy.
>

I don't even know if I will bother to get this when it shows up at the secondhand shop.

> I found this on eBay recently:
>
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/112816635428
>
> Will you LOOK at that damn thing. It's gorgeous. It's so utterly Grimlock that it hurts. He looks dynamic and powerful and so awesome. Granted, this specific toy is only about Legends sized, but can you imagine if it were scaled up to Deluxe or Voyager size? I would buy the hell out of this thing. I may yet still. And it's not even official. But it captures Grimlock perfectly. Why can a random third party company do this when Hasbro themselves cannot?!
>

I keep seeing that, and then I see this:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Battleplane-Transformation-Robot-Eagle-King-Action-Figure-Model-Toy/122868885850?_trkparms=aid%3D555018%26algo%3DPL.SIM%26ao%3D2%26asc%3D44040%26meid%3D5cf2c15f8ad94e4f9acf76acddef14a8%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D12%26mehot%3Dpp%26sd%3D112816635428%26itm%3D122868885850&_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851
It looks too good to be true, because it is. Where it says color, each component is $9.99, which I would jump all over if all of them were in stock. Why can't they just sell the whole robot?

> > Another take on Jazz, long overdue after the messy, floppy-chested RTS Jazz.
> > And he's a combiner limb, as well.
>
> I feel like it's the Power of the Primes edition of Jazz that's the floppy-chested mess, honestly. I think it's the worst version of Jazz we've ever gotten. No toy of him has ever disappointed me like this one has.
>

He looks nothing like Jazz, it looks like someone was designing a Wheeljack and forgot which end of the car Wheeljack's head was supposed to be at.

> > Buster and Hydra to go up against Ginrai.
>
> I would be happier with Dreadwind if I could find a second gun for him. I managed it with Titans Return Hardhead and Chromedome, but no luck on Dreadwind so far. (Maybe Nonnef Productions will eventually do something.)
>

They just don't grab me. It's a nice shout out, but it's the smallest version of each we've gotten so far.

> > Metalhawk's pretender suit, to complete the package (and give the TR figure
> > some added firepower and a Powermaster.
>
> Metalhawk doesn't really interest me as a character. The rest of the Pretenders are disappointingly small, though. I want full-scale updates, not tiny Targetmaster versions of them.
>

Deluxe Metalhawk was barely available, and made sense as a toy. This extra Metalhawk to Metalhawk my Metalhawk, well it's not that exciting as a Metalhawk but it looks just fine as a gun.

> > Rodimus Prime, featuring Hasbro's answer to the Warbot Protector add-on
>
> I like the Hot Rod component. The Rodimus transformation is unnecessarily large and awkward, and I always feel like I'm going to break the toy. It just doesn't seem like a very successful update to me.
>

It looks interesting, but I don't feel any need for it. I like the Rodimus Unicronus, I might get that if it ever stays on the shelf long enough for me to cave in and buy it.

> > A novel take on Optimus, with the first authentic Orion Pax figure we've ever
> > gotten.
>
> The robot mode is authentic, but why does Orion Pax transform into Optimus Prime's vehicle mode?
>

The robot mode doesn't even need Orion Pax for the big robot. Some people have been returning the big robot minus Orion Pax to the local Walmart.

> > Aelytah Won
>
> You misspelled Uhleeeeeta.
>

Meh, it was decent, not great. If she were released during G1 she would have had better stickers.

> > Optimus Primal
>
> I've mostly been regarding the toy line in terms of what's been released to date. If the new Optimal Optimus is absolutely amazing, I may revise my opinion of the line somewhat.
>

The little robot is just the surf board and the big robot head and chest, the giant cannons look pretty bad, there seems to be no car mode, or small monkey mode, the big monkey is completely independent of the small robot component. It's just way too different. The original was a great toy, and this one seems to add in a ton of gimmicks to replace the old gimmicks, but it loses a lot of charm to me.

> > Terrorcons, if you're into them
>
> The Terrorcons may be the saving grace of the entire toy line. Well, maybe not Hun-Gurrr, but definitely the other four, if the three unreleased ones are anything like Rippersnapper.
>

I need the Terrorcons. They all look good. Sure they cheat a bit using the beast hands and robot hands, but so far it all looks cool, if a bit color mismatched on the combiner bits.

> > A Predaking that doesn't look like a disproportionate mess like the original
> >(never had the least bit of interest in the classic due to the core being the
> > same size as the limbs.)
>
> I want to wait until I own the new Predaking to pass judgment on it, but from what I've seen in online photos, it's got design issues. It's very difficult to get past the idea that Predaking's upper legs just fold up and hang off of Tantrum and Headstrong's back. That's just a terrible design idea.
>

Tantrum and headstrong both look terrible, with giant leg components hanging about. Sure combined mode looks good, but individual bots suffer. G1 had great individual bots but only a mediocre combined form.

> > IMO it's a solid end to the Prime Wars set.
>
> I look forward to the future——whatever comes after Power of the Primes. And hopefully whoever designed Titans Return is working on it.
>
>
> Zob (hating inventory at work more and more with each passing year)

I just helped 3 stores do inventory prep, but I never have to stay for inventory anymore (though there will be a lot of cleanup and fixing mistakes made during inventory.)

[David Connell]

On Tuesday, April 24, 2018 at 6:29:10 PM UTC-4, Irrellius Spamticon of the Potato People. wrote:
> On Tuesday, April 24, 2018 at 1:54:50 PM UTC-5, Zobovor wrote:
> > On Tuesday, April 24, 2018 at 7:55:47 AM UTC-6, David Connell wrote:
> >
> > > I honestly don't find POTP disappointing at all. It may not be as amazing as
> > > TR, but it's a solid line.
> >
> > Okay, let's explore this on a case-by-case basis.
> >
> > > Fans have been asking for a Voyager-class Seeker, and we've got one now.
> > > Maybe not the best standalone figure but an excellent combiner core.
> >
> > I wasn't aware of a fan demand for a Voyager version of Starscream, but even if that were the case, surely the one we got isn't the one people wanted.
> >
> > I will admit that if this Starscream had been released during G1, it would have been amazing. But as a modern-day release, it's seriously lacking.
> >
>
> Nobody was asking for a Voyager seeker that I knew of. If anything they were asking for limbs for CW Cyclonus, not another torso minus limbs.

There was a very long discussion on TFW2005 about Voyager Seekers - I remember pointing out that Armada and Cybertron both had Voyager Starscreams/Seekers. There were quite a few people in that thread who wanted them. Me, I'll pick up the Starscream but that's it.

>
> > > Dinobots, finally! With a new kid sister!
> >
> > Some of the Dinobots are very good, but Grimlock is a disappointment. Shoehorning the combiner gimmick into his design really, really hurt the toy.
> >
>
> I don't even know if I will bother to get this when it shows up at the secondhand shop.
>
> > I found this on eBay recently:
> >
> > https://www.ebay.com/itm/112816635428
> >
> > Will you LOOK at that damn thing. It's gorgeous. It's so utterly Grimlock that it hurts. He looks dynamic and powerful and so awesome. Granted, this specific toy is only about Legends sized, but can you imagine if it were scaled up to Deluxe or Voyager size? I would buy the hell out of this thing. I may yet still. And it's not even official. But it captures Grimlock perfectly. Why can a random third party company do this when Hasbro themselves cannot?!
> >

I'm quite happy with POTP Grimlock - vastly superior to the Classics version IMO. I might have to order that - I could use a good, inexpensive Legends scale Grimmy.

> > > Another take on Jazz, long overdue after the messy, floppy-chested RTS Jazz.
> > > And he's a combiner limb, as well.
> >
> > I feel like it's the Power of the Primes edition of Jazz that's the floppy-chested mess, honestly. I think it's the worst version of Jazz we've ever gotten. No toy of him has ever disappointed me like this one has.
> >
>
> He looks nothing like Jazz, it looks like someone was designing a Wheeljack and forgot which end of the car Wheeljack's head was supposed to be at.
>

Looks like Jazz to me, and he's far more stable than the previous offering. POTP Jazz has pegs and holes to hold the chest in place. RTS Jazz depends on friction that the design & tolerances just don't provide.

> > > Metalhawk's pretender suit, to complete the package (and give the TR figure
> > > some added firepower and a Powermaster.
> >
> > Metalhawk doesn't really interest me as a character. The rest of the Pretenders are disappointingly small, though. I want full-scale updates, not tiny Targetmaster versions of them.

If you're a Masterforce fan, the size of the shells makes perfect sense. Moreso than the glossing over of the giant humans in the comics. Being Targetmasters as well adds more value to the figures, and allows more interaction with the big guys.

> >
>
> Deluxe Metalhawk was barely available, and made sense as a toy. This extra Metalhawk to Metalhawk my Metalhawk, well it's not that exciting as a Metalhawk but it looks just fine as a gun.
>
> > > Rodimus Prime, featuring Hasbro's answer to the Warbot Protector add-on
> >
> > I like the Hot Rod component. The Rodimus transformation is unnecessarily large and awkward, and I always feel like I'm going to break the toy. It just doesn't seem like a very successful update to me.

Warbot Protector/Classics Hot Rod is better, but it's also very expensive now. It' s also a rather complex transformation with some tight tolerances. POTP Rodimus ain't perfect, but I think it's more playable. It's also the best official Rodimus Prime we've gotten, for better or worse. Considering the last domestic attempt was the Titanium figure more than a decade ago, I'm thrilled just to see the character included.

>
> > > A novel take on Optimus, with the first authentic Orion Pax figure we've ever
> > > gotten.
> >
> > The robot mode is authentic, but why does Orion Pax transform into Optimus Prime's vehicle mode?

They gotta compromise somewhere. An Orion that had his animated altmode, and became a component in the Optimus Prime tractor trailer mode would probably have been way too expensive to realize on a retail release. Maybe a third party will try it. Perfect Effect to the rescue again?

> >
>
> The robot mode doesn't even need Orion Pax for the big robot. Some people have been returning the big robot minus Orion Pax to the local Walmart.
>
> > > Aelytah Won
> >
> > You misspelled Uhleeeeeta.

:-D

> >
>
> Meh, it was decent, not great. If she were released during G1 she would have had better stickers.
>
> > > Optimus Primal
> >
> > I've mostly been regarding the toy line in terms of what's been released to date. If the new Optimal Optimus is absolutely amazing, I may revise my opinion of the line somewhat.
> >
>
> The little robot is just the surf board and the big robot head and chest, the giant cannons look pretty bad, there seems to be no car mode, or small monkey mode, the big monkey is completely independent of the small robot component. It's just way too different. The original was a great toy, and this one seems to add in a ton of gimmicks to replace the old gimmicks, but it loses a lot of charm to me.

Fair enough. I kind of like that Primal isn't just a reproduction of either the original Primal or Optimal Optimus figures.

>
> > > Terrorcons, if you're into them
> >
> > The Terrorcons may be the saving grace of the entire toy line. Well, maybe not Hun-Gurrr, but definitely the other four, if the three unreleased ones are anything like Rippersnapper.
> >
>
> I need the Terrorcons. They all look good. Sure they cheat a bit using the beast hands and robot hands, but so far it all looks cool, if a bit color mismatched on the combiner bits.
>

The Terrorcons are actually one of the skip seta for me - They were completely forgettable to me, so I'm passing to save some cash.

> > > A Predaking that doesn't look like a disproportionate mess like the original
> > >(never had the least bit of interest in the classic due to the core being the
> > > same size as the limbs.)
> >
> > I want to wait until I own the new Predaking to pass judgment on it, but from what I've seen in online photos, it's got design issues. It's very difficult to get past the idea that Predaking's upper legs just fold up and hang off of Tantrum and Headstrong's back. That's just a terrible design idea.
> >
>
> Tantrum and headstrong both look terrible, with giant leg components hanging about. Sure combined mode looks good, but individual bots suffer. G1 had great individual bots but only a mediocre combined form.

I'm not sure I cared for any aspect of G1 Predaking - this one at least has a decent looking gestalt form. Probably won't get it at that price, though. If it were a Voyager and 4 deluxes I might, but the box sets are too much cash at one time.

>
> > > IMO it's a solid end to the Prime Wars set.
> >
> > I look forward to the future——whatever comes after Power of the Primes. And hopefully whoever designed Titans Return is working on it.
> >
> >
> > Zob (hating inventory at work more and more with each passing year)
>
> I just helped 3 stores do inventory prep, but I never have to stay for inventory anymore (though there will be a lot of cleanup and fixing mistakes made during inventory.)

We do inventory with computers and scanner guns these days. My job is to keep the computers up and running.

[Irrellius Spamticon of the Potato People.]

On Wednesday, April 25, 2018 at 10:08:24 AM UTC-5, David Connell wrote:
> On Tuesday, April 24, 2018 at 6:29:10 PM UTC-4, Irrellius Spamticon of the Potato People. wrote:
> > On Tuesday, April 24, 2018 at 1:54:50 PM UTC-5, Zobovor wrote:
> > > On Tuesday, April 24, 2018 at 7:55:47 AM UTC-6, David Connell wrote:
> > >
> > > > I honestly don't find POTP disappointing at all. It may not be as amazing as
> > > > TR, but it's a solid line.
> > >
> > > Okay, let's explore this on a case-by-case basis.
> > >
> > > > Fans have been asking for a Voyager-class Seeker, and we've got one now.
> > > > Maybe not the best standalone figure but an excellent combiner core.
> > >
> > > I wasn't aware of a fan demand for a Voyager version of Starscream, but even if that were the case, surely the one we got isn't the one people wanted.
> > >
> > > I will admit that if this Starscream had been released during G1, it would have been amazing. But as a modern-day release, it's seriously lacking.
> > >
> >
> > Nobody was asking for a Voyager seeker that I knew of. If anything they were asking for limbs for CW Cyclonus, not another torso minus limbs.
>
> There was a very long discussion on TFW2005 about Voyager Seekers - I remember pointing out that Armada and Cybertron both had Voyager Starscreams/Seekers. There were quite a few people in that thread who wanted them. Me, I'll pick up the Starscream but that's it.
>
>
> >
> > > > Dinobots, finally! With a new kid sister!
> > >
> > > Some of the Dinobots are very good, but Grimlock is a disappointment. Shoehorning the combiner gimmick into his design really, really hurt the toy.
> > >
> >
> > I don't even know if I will bother to get this when it shows up at the secondhand shop.
> >
> > > I found this on eBay recently:
> > >
> > > https://www.ebay.com/itm/112816635428
> > >
> > > Will you LOOK at that damn thing. It's gorgeous. It's so utterly Grimlock that it hurts. He looks dynamic and powerful and so awesome. Granted, this specific toy is only about Legends sized, but can you imagine if it were scaled up to Deluxe or Voyager size? I would buy the hell out of this thing. I may yet still. And it's not even official. But it captures Grimlock perfectly. Why can a random third party company do this when Hasbro themselves cannot?!
> > >
>
> I'm quite happy with POTP Grimlock - vastly superior to the Classics version IMO. I might have to order that - I could use a good, inexpensive Legends scale Grimmy.
>

Someone let me play with some Iron Dibots today, they are huge G1 tributes, it's each dinobot bigger than leader class, but also more expensive. Each one is noticeably superior to the Hasbro counterparts. There are so many 3rd parties aking better Grimlocks.

>
> > > > Another take on Jazz, long overdue after the messy, floppy-chested RTS Jazz.
> > > > And he's a combiner limb, as well.
> > >
> > > I feel like it's the Power of the Primes edition of Jazz that's the floppy-chested mess, honestly. I think it's the worst version of Jazz we've ever gotten. No toy of him has ever disappointed me like this one has.
> > >
> >
> > He looks nothing like Jazz, it looks like someone was designing a Wheeljack and forgot which end of the car Wheeljack's head was supposed to be at.
> >
>
> Looks like Jazz to me, and he's far more stable than the previous offering. POTP Jazz has pegs and holes to hold the chest in place. RTS Jazz depends on friction that the design & tolerances just don't provide.
>

RTS was great, mine was never floppy.

Someone turned in Maketoys Downbeat in to the local second hand shop, I was considering getting him, but RTS was very good and I don't know if I need another good Jazz.

>
> > > > Metalhawk's pretender suit, to complete the package (and give the TR figure
> > > > some added firepower and a Powermaster.
> > >
> > > Metalhawk doesn't really interest me as a character. The rest of the Pretenders are disappointingly small, though. I want full-scale updates, not tiny Targetmaster versions of them.
>
>
> If you're a Masterforce fan, the size of the shells makes perfect sense. Moreso than the glossing over of the giant humans in the comics. Being Targetmasters as well adds more value to the figures, and allows more interaction with the big guys.
>
>

It does make a bit of sense having the shells that look like people in armor be the size of people instead of giants looking like people.

> > >
> >
> > Deluxe Metalhawk was barely available, and made sense as a toy. This extra Metalhawk to Metalhawk my Metalhawk, well it's not that exciting as a Metalhawk but it looks just fine as a gun.
> >
> > > > Rodimus Prime, featuring Hasbro's answer to the Warbot Protector add-on
> > >
> > > I like the Hot Rod component. The Rodimus transformation is unnecessarily large and awkward, and I always feel like I'm going to break the toy. It just doesn't seem like a very successful update to me.
>
>
> Warbot Protector/Classics Hot Rod is better, but it's also very expensive now. It' s also a rather complex transformation with some tight tolerances. POTP Rodimus ain't perfect, but I think it's more playable. It's also the best official Rodimus Prime we've gotten, for better or worse. Considering the last domestic attempt was the Titanium figure more than a decade ago, I'm thrilled just to see the character included.
>
>
>
> >
> > > > A novel take on Optimus, with the first authentic Orion Pax figure we've ever
> > > > gotten.
> > >
> > > The robot mode is authentic, but why does Orion Pax transform into Optimus Prime's vehicle mode?
>
> They gotta compromise somewhere. An Orion that had his animated altmode, and became a component in the Optimus Prime tractor trailer mode would probably have been way too expensive to realize on a retail release. Maybe a third party will try it. Perfect Effect to the rescue again?
>
>
> > >
> >
> > The robot mode doesn't even need Orion Pax for the big robot. Some people have been returning the big robot minus Orion Pax to the local Walmart.
> >
> > > > Aelytah Won
> > >
> > > You misspelled Uhleeeeeta.
>
> :-D
>
> > >
> >
> > Meh, it was decent, not great. If she were released during G1 she would have had better stickers.
> >
> > > > Optimus Primal
> > >
> > > I've mostly been regarding the toy line in terms of what's been released to date. If the new Optimal Optimus is absolutely amazing, I may revise my opinion of the line somewhat.
> > >
> >
> > The little robot is just the surf board and the big robot head and chest, the giant cannons look pretty bad, there seems to be no car mode, or small monkey mode, the big monkey is completely independent of the small robot component. It's just way too different. The original was a great toy, and this one seems to add in a ton of gimmicks to replace the old gimmicks, but it loses a lot of charm to me.
>
> Fair enough. I kind of like that Primal isn't just a reproduction of either the original Primal or Optimal Optimus figures.
>

I just want the cannons to be on the shoulders and some kind of vehicle mode. The Original Primal transforms into Transmetal surfboard without the bot, then the Transmetal surfboard plugs in to the Primal Prime. It's just odd that the surfboard is here but not the version that used the surfboard.

>
> >
> > > > Terrorcons, if you're into them
> > >
> > > The Terrorcons may be the saving grace of the entire toy line. Well, maybe not Hun-Gurrr, but definitely the other four, if the three unreleased ones are anything like Rippersnapper.
> > >
> >
> > I need the Terrorcons. They all look good. Sure they cheat a bit using the beast hands and robot hands, but so far it all looks cool, if a bit color mismatched on the combiner bits.
> >
>
> The Terrorcons are actually one of the skip seta for me - They were completely forgettable to me, so I'm passing to save some cash.
>

I collected the G1 Terrorcons piece by piece from thrift stores. I don't exactly understand the justification for their existence, but they turned out pretty cool.

> > > > A Predaking that doesn't look like a disproportionate mess like the original
> > > >(never had the least bit of interest in the classic due to the core being the
> > > > same size as the limbs.)
> > >
> > > I want to wait until I own the new Predaking to pass judgment on it, but from what I've seen in online photos, it's got design issues. It's very difficult to get past the idea that Predaking's upper legs just fold up and hang off of Tantrum and Headstrong's back. That's just a terrible design idea.
> > >
> >
> > Tantrum and headstrong both look terrible, with giant leg components hanging about. Sure combined mode looks good, but individual bots suffer. G1 had great individual bots but only a mediocre combined form.
>
> I'm not sure I cared for any aspect of G1 Predaking - this one at least has a decent looking gestalt form. Probably won't get it at that price, though. If it were a Voyager and 4 deluxes I might, but the box sets are too much cash at one time.
>

Price is definitely a factor, is why I got War Lord, it's pretty good.

>
> >
> > > > IMO it's a solid end to the Prime Wars set.
> > >
> > > I look forward to the future——whatever comes after Power of the Primes. And hopefully whoever designed Titans Return is working on it.
> > >
> > >
> > > Zob (hating inventory at work more and more with each passing year)
> >
> > I just helped 3 stores do inventory prep, but I never have to stay for inventory anymore (though there will be a lot of cleanup and fixing mistakes made during inventory.)
>
> We do inventory with computers and scanner guns these days. My job is to keep the computers up and running.

The computers made things worse as the first got around, none of the REGIS employees knew how to use their company's scanners and computer inventory system.

[Gustavo Wombat, of the Seattle Wombats]

On Tuesday, April 24, 2018 at 11:54:50 AM UTC-7, Zobovor wrote:
> I feel like it's the Power of the Primes edition of Jazz that's the floppy-chested mess, honestly. I think it's the worst version of Jazz we've ever gotten. No toy of him has ever disappointed me like this one has.

http://www.tfu.info/2012/Autobot/GenJazz/jazz.htm

PotP Jazz is a decent enough toy. Not the definitive Jazz by any means, but decent enough. I don't know what is wrong with your copy, but mine isn't a floppy chested mess.

On the other hand, WFC Jazz is a terrible toy with no redeeming features.

And then there is this guy...
http://www.tfu.info/2008/Autobot/LegendsUniJazz/jazz.htm

A few more paint operations, and he would be great. But he doesn't have them, and he is amazingly disappointing.

[David Connell]

The Reprolabels set and a little black paint on the arms were all it took to make this guy an exceptional Jazz to use with Metroplex.

[Travoltron]

I've been enjoying the line, but I'm unable to find hardly anything from
the 2nd wave. I got Tailgate and Rippersnapper and haven't seen either
on shelves since.
Wave 1 is really clogging up the shelves and not moving anymore.
Especially Dreadwind and the little Pretender guys.

[Irrellius Spamticon of the Potato People.]

Most of the stores I go in to have 1-2 Dreadwings,2-5 Prime Masters, and a few Windchargers and that's been it for the past few weeks. Occasionally a Starscream.

[Zobovor]

On Wednesday, May 9, 2018 at 3:35:04 PM UTC-6, Travoltron wrote:


> I've been enjoying the line, but I'm unable to find hardly anything from
> the 2nd wave.

That seems to be the case with a lot of people. Hasbro's distribution is incredibly frustrating. I've been trying to reorder the Deluxe toys for my store (we have one Jazz and two Dreadwings in stock, and that's it) and it's been an uphill battle.

It's actually been months since the second wave made its debut, so I wonder when wave three is supposed to ship? I don't really closely pay attention to how much time typically elapses between waves, but according to my biological collecting chronometer, it feels like it's been too long since we got new releases.


Zob (wants me some Terrorcons!)

[banzait...@gmail.com]

It’s almost like the days of the Energon line. I remember several molds of that line being impossible to find. (I am pretty sure I ranted about this on ATT past history). To this day, I am pretty sure Hasbro only made 1 Energon Wind Saber. (Of course, that’s all the world needed of that terrible toy)

-Banzaitron

[Irrellius Spamticon of the Potato People.]

On Thursday, May 10, 2018 at 9:18:33 PM UTC-5, banzait...@gmail.com wrote:
> It’s almost like the days of the Energon line. I remember several molds of that line being impossible to find. (I am pretty sure I ranted about this on ATT past history). To this day, I am pretty sure Hasbro only made 1 Energon Wind Saber. (Of course, that’s all the world needed of that terrible toy)
>
> -Banzaitron

I find parts of Energon Wing Saber everywhere. Never seen a whole one..

I have so far seen three Rippersnappers on three separate occasions but have not bought him.

It might have to do with the 3K needed to rebuild my transmission, or my health insurance cancelling me for submitting a claim. It was just a doctor's check-up.

I still have the Armada Bludgeon and Scourge, the ones that were redecos of G2 Hero Optimus and Megatron. Apparently they were really rare.

[Zobovor]

On Thursday, May 10, 2018 at 8:32:38 PM UTC-6, Irrellius Spamticon of the Potato People. wrote:

> It might have to do with the 3K needed to rebuild my transmission, or my
> health insurance cancelling me for submitting a claim. It was just a doctor's
> check-up.

Dude, that sucks. Can they even do that?

> I still have the Armada Bludgeon and Scourge, the ones that were redecos of
> G2 Hero Optimus and Megatron. Apparently they were really rare.

The Destructicons! Every once in a while I look for them on eBay, but they sell for like $70 a pop. Which is crazy sauce.


Zob (like, dude, they're not BotCon toys)

[Travoltron]

I just checked Target today. (The only place I've had any luck finding
anything.)
They had a whole bunch of Jazzes, a couple Dreadwinds, 3 or 4
Starscreams, 1 Windcharger, 1 Shrapnel, 1 Beachcomber, and a whole bunch
of the Skullgrin, Metalhawk, and Cloudburst pretenders. This is what
I've been seeing everywhere for the past month or so.

[Marshall]

It looks like TRU dumped their stock of Wave 1 back into the Hasbro distribution system which got shipped in place of almost everyones orders for Wave 2...
My local Target had a single Rippersnapper for a while and is now back to packed out with Wave 1 crud. Lafayette area Walmarts got the duo-cons, but nothing else Wave 2. I've seen a couple Rodimus Unicronus around too but thats it.

[Zobovor]

On Saturday, May 12, 2018 at 4:00:00 AM UTC-6, Marshall wrote:

> It looks like TRU dumped their stock of Wave 1 back into the Hasbro
> distribution system which got shipped in place of almost everyones orders for
> Wave 2.

I guess that's possible, but it doesn't seem likely to me. It seems more likely that Toys "R" Us would have simply continued to sell their remaining merchandise within the stores until they closed down. After all, the company had already paid to ship the merchandise to their stores once; it would have been inefficient and costly to ship it back to Hasbro a second time. Also, I doubt that Toys "R" Us had the liquid assets to refund toys being sold back to Hasbro, even if they wanted to.

However, the glut of wave one Power of the Primes toys at current, functional retailers is undeniable, regardless of the reason or the cause. My suspicion is that Hasbro overestimated what the retailer demand would be, perhaps based on sales of Titans Return (which, in my opinion, was a far superior toy line). They overproduced wave one, but after stores failed to order the large quantities Hasbro anticipated, they're continuing to ship this wave through the retail distribution chain. That's my guess, anyway.


Zob (got a sidekick of Easter-themed Hot Wheels cars last week)

[Travoltron]

I checked again yesterday. They're down to two Jazzes, but everything
else is exactly the same. I would say supply has far outweighed the
demand for wave 1. Although the Dinobots do seem to sell well.

Without TRU, I really don't know of any other places besides Target and
Wal-Mart to check for Transformers. I've never had luck at Walgreens or
Fred Meyer (Kroger).

[Zobovor]

On Sunday, May 20, 2018 at 1:29:20 PM UTC-6, Travoltron wrote:

> Without TRU, I really don't know of any other places besides Target and
> Wal-Mart to check for Transformers. I've never had luck at Walgreens or
> Fred Meyer (Kroger).

I've had occasional luck with ShopKo, but apparently their stores are mostly concentrated in the central northern USA. Not sure where you're located.

Shopping online may just become the new norm. The way I look at it, when I was growing up, having multiple stores to check was important. It's less important now with the advent of eBay and the like. Yeah, we have to pay shipping, but how many times have you gone on a toy run, wasting gas while driving from store to store, only to come up empty-handed? Or ended up buying something you didn't really want that badly, just so the day wasn't a total waste? Maybe paying for shipping saves us money in the long run.


(eBay is the new "biggest toy store there is"... who else is gonna have the Dungeons & Dragons Fire Elemental from 1984? I need three of them!)

[Travoltron]

On 5/20/2018 1:46 PM, Zobovor wrote:
> I've had occasional luck with ShopKo

We actually have one of those here! I almost never go there. It's a bit
out of the way, but I'll have to check it out the next time I'm in that
part of town.

[Zobovor]

On Sunday, May 20, 2018 at 5:07:04 PM UTC-6, Travoltron wrote:

> We actually have one of those here! I almost never go there. It's a bit
> out of the way, but I'll have to check it out the next time I'm in that
> part of town.

Years ago, we had a Toys "R" Us and a ShopKo right next to it. When I was collecting Star Wars toys, any time Toys "R" Us was out of stock, I could always count on ShopKo to have them. They usually charged about a dollar more, but it was worth it when the alternative was to buy nothing.

ShopKo was also the first place I ever saw the Combiner Wars toys, so they obviously do something right, at least every once in a while.


Zob

[Travoltron]

No luck at ShopKo. They did have Tailgate, but I already have him.
I like to support brick-and-mortar stores whenever possible, but I'm
throwing in the towel. I preordered all the upcoming Hasbro PotP toys
at BBTS.