Jim Shooter's original 8 page Transformers treatment
Evil King Macrocranios
treatment he said Jim Shooter wrote to establish the background of the
Transformers comic. The Allspark has pics of all 8 pages from the
panel and they're a fantastic read. Start here at page one-
http://tinyurl.com/22ogcwk
Chad Rushing
Ha, those guys probably had no idea what they were setting in motion
back then. What's funny is that you never hear Jim Shooter named the
"Father of Transformers" or anything like that. I have to wonder why
decisions were made to replace Spike with Buster and so forth. Thank
goodness they dropped the name "Aunty."
- Chad
Evil King Macrocranios
> back then. What's funny is that you never hear Jim Shooter named the
> "Father of Transformers" or anything like that. I have to wonder why
> decisions were made to replace Spike with Buster and so forth. Thank
> goodness they dropped the name "Aunty."
Did you check out Sparkplug's real name and that given for his lady
friend? Hilarious!
Evil King Macrocranios
> decisions were made to replace Spike with Buster and so forth. Thank
> goodness they dropped the name "Aunty."
Actually Budiansky addressed that at Iacon One back in '06. I
transcribed that panel and here's the relevant excerpt:
"Jim Shooter came up with what I thought were a lot of funky names,
but
he was my boss so I didn't argue with him.
audience member: Could you tell us what those names were?
Bob Budiansky: Buster Witwicky. [audience laughs] Need I say more?
Apparently he grew up with some kid named Buster in Pittsburgh and so
he wanted to honor him in that way. What else? That's the big one. Oh
okay, now I remember...now I've heard over the years that this has
been
some kind of a confusing aspect of the Transformers storyline-Buster
v.
Spike. In the original treatment it says "these will include Sparkplug
Witwicky and his son, Spike." 'Spike' is crossed out and it says
'Buster'. So I believe the cartoon had Spike as the kid, right? So
this
probably went to the animators before it got amended. So in the comic
it was Buster and then eventually Spike..well, Spike was
Buster's...well I don't know. One was the dad or something. I forget.
Anyways, Spike got changed to Buster."
So as he tells it, the name was originally Spike in the treatment.
Shooter wanted it changed to Buster so he did, but too late for the
cartoon producers to amend it before the cartoon was made. The full
transcript is here:
Zobovor
<evil.king.macrocran...@gmail.com> wrote:
> At Bob Budiansky's Botcon panels he had scans of the original 8 page
> treatment he said Jim Shooter wrote to establish the background of the
> Transformers comic.
I love Bob Budiansky. The man kept everything associated with his
involvement with the Transformers! Whatta guy. Sure beats the heck
out of most of the interactions I've had with people—usually something
along the lines of, "Sorry, that was 25 years ago, I don't remember
much about it."
I've seen some of these pages before but not all of them. It looks
like somebody used this as a reference when they were putting together
the big, long blurb on the S.T.A.R.S. pamphlet back in the day—I
recognized the reference to the "Treacherous Attack of the
Decepticons." This also seems to explain a lot of the differences
between the comics and cartoons that popped up—names like Buster,
Aunty, and Mount St. Helens were part of the original treatment, but
they were changed to Spike and The Ark and Mount St. Hillary later on.
Buster's girlfriend Jessie was originally going to be called "Worm"!
I love it. Sparkplug was going to have a girlfriend named "Toots"!
Part of this story treatment showed up on the Shout! Factory DVD
release, and I said something here once about how cool it was that the
big, dramatic revelation that Cybertron was really a natural planet
had been there in the original notes the whole time. Well, apparently
the equally-dramatic revelation that the Transformers were actually
created by the alien Quintessons was in here, too ("it is unknown
whether the robotic 'life' of Cybertron was originally created by some
mysterious, advanced alien race in the dim, distant past"). That's
really cool.
Zob
Travoltron
Ow, my eyes.
If anyone ever gets around to typing this up, please post.
...also known as Thunder
> So as he tells it, the name was originally Spike in the treatment.
> Shooter wanted it changed to Buster so he did,
Ironically, they're both stupid names. :) But I guess they're
distinctive at any rate...
t.k.
...also known as Thunder
> Buster's girlfriend Jessie was originally going to be called "Worm"!
> I love it. Sparkplug was going to have a girlfriend named "Toots"!
What were these guys smoking? :)
t.k.
Chad Rushing
>
> Ow, my eyes.
> If anyone ever gets around to typing this up, please post.
Did you try enlarging the images? You can zoom in on each by clicking
on them.
- Chad
TigerMegatron
I always saw optimus prime as this john wayne type personality.
Chad Rushing
>
> optimus prime described as abraham lincoln was shocking & funny.
I don't think anyone really familiar with American history would
consider being described as Abraham Lincoln as a compliment. Yes, he
succeeded in keeping the Union intact, his intended goal, but he
wasn't any more saintly than the U.S. presidents of the modern era
despite the giant temple ... er ... memorial that was built to him in
Washington, D.C. He was an excellent rhetorician though.
> I always saw optimus prime as this john wayne type personality.
I did, too. Cullen even seemed to be aiming for a Wayne speech
pattern (drawl?) at times.
- Chad
Gustavo Wombat
> On Jun 28, 8:47 pm, Evil King Macrocranios
>
> <evil.king.macrocran...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > At Bob Budiansky's Botcon panels he had scans of the original 8 page
> > treatment he said Jim Shooter wrote to establish the background of the
> > Transformers comic. The Allspark has pics of all 8 pages from the
> > panel and they're a fantastic read. Start here at page one
> > -http://tinyurl.com/22ogcwk
>
> Ha, those guys probably had no idea what they were setting in motion
> back then. What's funny is that you never hear Jim Shooter named the
> "Father of Transformers" or anything like that.
It's amazing how much is already there, and how wonderfully fleshed
out it is. I wonder how much of this was Jim Shooter's work, and how
much was already there when he got the assignment. Did Hasbro already
have their corporate hearts set on alien robots, or would locally
constructed mechas have been just fine?
It would be fascinating to see Shooter's original notes, or Hasbro's
notes to him.
> I have to wonder why
> decisions were made to replace Spike with Buster and so forth. Thank
> goodness they dropped the name "Aunty."
I kind of liked "Aunty". And "Toots".
I am glad that the cartoon went with a less adversarial relationship
between Spike and Sparkplug. It's one of the things that bothers me
when I read the comics.
Gustavo!
Evil King Macrocranios
> out it is. I wonder how much of this was Jim Shooter's work, and how
> much was already there when he got the assignment. Did Hasbro already
> have their corporate hearts set on alien robots, or would locally
> constructed mechas have been just fine?
Budiansky gives Shooter the credit for creating the concept of
Cybertron and the whole "alien robots crashing into earth 4 million
years ago" idea. He stated as much in his panel at Iacon One (
http://tinyurl.com/2ezxx64 ). But I've found another source that gives
credit for a majority of the backstory to the Griffin Bacal head
honchos along with Hasbro's chief marketing exec Steve Schwartz. In
the book "The Real Toy Story" author Eric Clark relates the story of
how the Transformers mythos was originally developed during a road
trip from Hasbro in Rhode Island to Toy Fair in New York (
http://tinyurl.com/2dq2sra ). In the car with Schwartz were Paul
Kurnit, Tom Griffin and Joe Bacal, all from Griffin Bacal. According
to Clark, those four were the ones who came up with most of the
Transformers story. But Clark gets a lot of details wrong or out of
sequence, like how he implies name Megatron was invented before Marvel
was assigned to create the characters. We know from Budiansky that
that's wrong. So I don't know how much of what Clark wrote in "The
Real Toy Story" can be considered reliable, especially since his book
is strongly biased against toy based cartoons. The real origins remain
clouded in mystery. Paul Kurnit would definitely know these kinds of
things and he's done an interview about it before, but the guy who
interviewed him in the one article I've read didn't ask the right
questions. Somebody with less of a slant against toy marketing needs
to interview these guys about all this before they die.
Scott
the association here.
Grebo
NEAT!!!
Has this been transcribed and posted on the Usenet for preservation
and posterity?
Greb
Evil King Macrocranios
>
> Has this been transcribed and posted on the Usenet for preservation
> and posterity?
NO!!! GO FOR IT!
Onslaught Six
> I love Bob Budiansky. The man kept everything associated with his
> involvement with the Transformers! Whatta guy. Sure beats the heck
> out of most of the interactions I've had with people—usually something
> along the lines of, "Sorry, that was 25 years ago, I don't remember
> much about it."
To be fair, Budiansky has his share of those moments too--he just
happens to still have a bunch of the paperwork from then to remind him
of things.
Also, something I don't often see discussed in TF circles: He was one
of the editors on the Spider-Man Clone Saga arc of the mid-90s.
Basically they kept shaking around how Marvel editorial worked, and at
one point Budiansky was the head editor of all Spider-Man titles. And
it was a trainwreck. Really terrible stuff. I felt so sorry for the
poor guy when I read that.
Onslaught Six
> Part of this story treatment showed up on the Shout! Factory DVD
> release, and I said something here once about how cool it was that the
> big, dramatic revelation that Cybertron was really a natural planet
> had been there in the original notes the whole time. Well, apparently
> the equally-dramatic revelation that the Transformers were actually
> created by the alien Quintessons was in here, too ("it is unknown
> whether the robotic 'life' of Cybertron was originally created by some
> mysterious, advanced alien race in the dim, distant past"). That's
> really cool.
Not just that, but some bits seem to refer to the Decepticons wanting
to reform Cybertron as a giant planet warship--not unlike a Warworld,
eh?
Onslaught Six
<evil.king.macrocran...@gmail.com> wrote:
Ulchtar's bio says something to me that I've long said: All the
Seekers were switched around, a lot.
I've always said that maybe Starscream wasn't always the traitorious
second-in-command. But his colour scheme and personality need not be
attached to a name. This Starscream bio really, really sounds like
Thundercracker to me.
...also known as Thunder
> Toots as slang for a woman is understandable, but worm? I fail to make
> the association here.
I was thinking about how that would've worked in the show/comic when she
went missing.
"Worm!" "Worm!" "Where are you?"
Just weird. :)
t.k.
Uriel Ventris
Oh wow.
Too tired to read it now, but ~WOW~
Dave Van Domelen
She's not a real doctor but they call her Dr. Worm.
Dave Van Domelen, figures maybe Shooter had a friend as a kid who came
by the nickname "Worm" due to a habit of digging?
Evil King Macrocranios
> of the editors on the Spider-Man Clone Saga arc of the mid-90s.
> Basically they kept shaking around how Marvel editorial worked, and at
> one point Budiansky was the head editor of all Spider-Man titles. And
> it was a trainwreck. Really terrible stuff. I felt so sorry for the
> poor guy when I read that.
I talked to him briefly about his stint editing Spider-Man. I remember
our conversation happened after his panel at Iacon One and he had some
down time. Here's my notes:
"On Spider-Man-
We talked about Spider-Man and the clone saga from the time he was
editor on just about everything Spider-Man. I expressed my
disappointment with that story arc and he said he would have liked to
change things about it but he came onto the scene after everything had
already been set in motion.
We talked about the gimmick covers on books from the mid-nineties. I
said I thought many of them from that era were were pointless but I
liked the Spider-Man ones because they at least tied into the story
somehow. Bob then told me he designed many of the gimmick covers
during his run as editor of Spider-Man and was proud of all of them.
He wanted the cover gimmicks to integrate elements of the story from
the comics they were on, not just be pointless. He was extensively
involved in the creation of the cover of Maximum Cloneage: Alpha. He
related how painstakingly he specified the relative transparencies of
each layer of that cover. He also had a hand in the design of most
every die cut cover during his tenure as editor on the Spider-titles.
We didn't know the exact numbers, but I'd ask in general terms, like,
'Did you do the die-cut one with the big red spider?' and he'd say
yes. One of his personal favorites was the one with the face off
between Scarlet Spider and Spider-Man, but I don't remember that one
being a gimmick cover. I'll have to look through my collection to get
the specific issue numbers of what we were talking about."
Chad Rushing
Ha, that reminds me of the rule that whoever makes a suggestion in a
staff meeting at work is automatically volunteering to take on that
extra task.
- Chad
G.B. Blackrock
Well, except that the UK took and ran with it....
G.B. Blackrock
G.B. Blackrock
I'll see what I can do, although these images are hard to read from....
G.B. Blackrock
wrote:
OH, I feel stupid now. After slogging through page one, I see that a
MUCH clearer image of that first page follows.
Now I see why the link fell upon the page that it did....
Anyway, the work continues.
G.B. Blackrock
Gustavo Wombat
wrote:
Yes, but she worms her way into your heart.
Gustavo!
G.B. Blackrock
OK. Here it is. I've retained as much of the formatting as I could
on the blog, but some of that (especially not the strikethroughs)
doesn't carry over to Usenet all that well, so I'll have this posted
to my blog tomorrow morning. (That way, if I've made any mistakes, I
can hopefully catch them between now and then)
THE TRANSFORMERS
Treatment
Civil war rages on the planet Cybertron. Destruction is catastrophic
and widespread, and yet no life is lost. None, at least, in the sense
that we know life--for the inhabitants of Cybertron are all machines.
There is NO "life" on Cybertron save for mechanical, electronic,
"creatures." As mankind is first among the organic denizens of Earth,
intelligent, sentient robots are the dominant species on Cybertron.
Even the planet itself is one vast mechanical construct. Perhaps
there was once a "real" world upon which Cybertron was built on, into,
under, and through until no trace of the original planet can be found,
but the origin of the planet is unknown, lost in antiquity.
Similarly, it is unknown whether the robotic "life" of Cybertron was
originally created by some mysterious, advanced, alien race in the
dim, distant past, or whether these strange metallic beings somehow
evolved from bizarre, basic life forms beyond human comprehension.
What is certain is that the sentient, robotic beings of Cybertron are
destroying one another.
The Autobots have, for untold eons, devoted themselves to peaceful
pursuits--commerce, trade, and travel--wayfaring endlessly upon the
broad turnpikes, through the winding transit tubes, and across the
soaring skyhighways of Cybertron.
The Decepticons have no use for peace. For untold eons they have
developed their technological capabilities and quietly prepared
themselves for war, all the while dwelling among the Autobots in
seemingly perfect harmony. Finally ready, they struck.
It is a war of annihilation. The Decepticons, many of whom can
convert their bodies at will into awesome weapons, or into mighty
aircraft, able to swoop down from the sky upon their astonished
enemies, seek to erase the Autobot presence from Cybertron. Some,
capable of transforming themselves into seemingly innocent
communications devices, act as spies, undermining Autobot resistance.
Once in absolute control, the Decepticons plan to rebuild their world-
machine into a cosmic dreadnaught-- to turn their very planet, a
sphere the size of Saturn, into the single most awesome weapon ever
conceived. And then-- let the universe beware...
The Autobots, though peace-loving, are not weak by any means,
however. They, too can transform themselves-- from their usual
robotic configurations into unearthly vehicles -- and they, too, are
mighty warriors. They fight back fiercely. The Decepticons wiped out
billions of Autobots in the first surprise attack, which was
orchestrated with precision that only machines could effect. The
surviving Autobots, fighting desperately, gathered together here and
there around, through, and within Cybertron, establishing strongholds
against the Decepticons. Thus, a sparse network of Autobot City-
States, each surrounded by vast areas of Decepticon-held territory,
struggle for survival.
A thousand years after The Treacherous Attack of the Decepticons, the
war still rages.
Cybertron has sustained much damage, and, in fact, has been shaken
loose from the orderly orbit it once maintained around Alpha Centauri,
and hurtles through space out of control--a runaway planet.
Thus, it is that the Autobot City-State, Iacon, the mightiest Autobot
stronghold of all, launches a space vessel bearing a computer-picked
Autobot crew. Their mission--to clear a path for the planet through
an asteroid belt that orbits a certain yellow star which Cybertron is
passing near, lest a collision with a large asteroid further damage,
or perhaps destroy their beloved, war-torn world.
But, the Decepticons have learned of the Autobot mission, and send out
their own space vessel. It lurks in ambush while the Autobots work
feverishly to destroy a huge asteroid.
Once the job is done and Cybertron is safe, the Decepticons attack!
They're bent upon capturing the Autobot ship and learning the secrets
of the Autobots' latest weapons.
Their weapons' power exhausted from shattering the asteroid, the
Autobots can only flee, and take evasive action. The chase covers
millions of miles through space.
But, at last, the Decepticons manage to close in on the helpless
Autobots, near the third planet from the yellow sun. They manage to
hold the Autobot ship for only seconds with their tractor beams, but
it is enough. A Decepticon boarding party smashes into the Autobot
ship.
Outnumbered and outgunned, the Autobot crew holds off the invaders for
precious moments, while locking the controls to crash their shipat
full speed into the crust of the third planet!
Witnessing the apparent destruction of the Autobot ship, the remaining
Decepticons turn homeward toward Cybertron, which is already hurtling
out of the solar system and onward into the black reaches of space.
Time passes. Much time.
Four million years after the crash of the Autobots vessel, Mount St.
Hellens Hilary erupts--and deep within the rocky carapace of the Earth
beneath Oregon wilderness disturbed by the volcanic rumblings,
something stirs.
It is the Autobots' ship -- badly damaged but not utterly destroyed.
Automatic force-shields helped protect the ship's mighty hull. Though
battered into dormancy for eons, the shock waves emanating from the
volcano have at last reawakened the ship's "brain" --computer would
not be the right word. It begins to probe the world around it. This
thinking machine, whimsically called "Aunty" the Ark in the Autobot
language, has been damaged in the fighting and the crash. Her Its
sensors are no longer fine enough to detect life, but she it does
discover much mechanical activity. True to her its programming, Aunty
the Ark begins to alter the structure of the ship's inhabitants
rebuilding them to resemble what she it detects in the environment
according to standard first-aid/repair procedure. Only partially
functioning as she it is, Aunty the Ark does not distinguish between
Autobot and Decepticon; friend and enemy alike are subject to her its
attentions. Aunty's The Ark's alterations are done in such a way as to
preserve the robots' true, basic nature. The Autobots, therefore,
resemble Earthly vehicles; the Decepticons look like Earthly weapons,
aircraft, and communications devices. Both can revert, in a few
moments, to forms very much like their original robotic forms.
The Decepticons leave the ship first. Although they have been in
stasis for millions of years, they remember their mission. They group
in battle formation and aim their combined firepower on the ship and
the Autobots still inside. They fire -- but Aunty the Ark, who has
endured so much, somehow summons the strength to raise herAunty the
Ark and her its crew. They leave in search of power -- power to fuel
themselves and destroy their enemies. Thus, the hostilities that
swept Cybertron are renewed on Earth. its defensive shields one more
time and blunt the force of their blast. The Decepticon leader
realizes that their energy levels are too low to annihilate
A day later, an Autobot shaped as a dune buggy sees a Decepticon
infiltrate a human atomic energy plant. When he reports this, his
leader is alarmed.
He realizes, as the Decepticons already have realized, that the earth
is a prize of incalculable value, for, unlike Cybertron, where there
are no resources -- all materials must be recycled and nothing new can
be made without cannibalizing something old, and energy is scarce,
indeed -- the Earth has coal and oil, oceans, a mineral-rich crust,
and a molten metal core! It is all that Cybertron lacks -- and its
riches, in Decepticon hands, could spell doom for the Autobots and all
other peaceful races of the universe!
The Autobots ponder trying to send a message to Cybertron, seeking to
learn what has happened there. Is the war still going on? If not,
who won? Did either side survive? It might take centuries for these
questions to reach Cybetron, centuries more for the replies, if any,
to reach Earth. And if the Decepticons have won, the reply might be
their annihilation. One thing is certain, the Autobots have no
choice; they must defend themselves, and prevent the Decepticons from
gaining more power here to abet their evil cause.
So the age-old struggle continues, but in a strange, strange land,
full of strange creatures...
(page break)
In the first adventure the preceding origin will be briefly told, and
the following will be accomplished:
* The Decepticons will establish a new, high tech, futuristic base
of operations on Earth. The Autobots will headquarter inside Aunty,
their ancient, battered, half-buried spaceship.
* Some supporting human cast members will be introduced.
These will include "Sparkplug" Witwicky, and his son, Spike Buster.
Sparkplug (whose real name is Stanislas Piotr) is a rough, tough guy
-- uneducated and rowdy, but a natural mechanic with an affinity for
things mechanical. By instinct he can take apart, put together, and
fix almost anything.
Spike Buster, despite his name, isn't much like his father. He's not
much interested in mechanical things. Dad might be able to understand
that if he were interested in sports, or adventuring, or even science
-- but he's not. He likes to draw, and he reads philosophy books, and
even some poetry. "Where have I failed?" his father moans.
Spike Buster and his father meet the Autobots and become their
confidants, though they relate in completely different ways.
Sparkplug thinks of them as the ultimate machines, and is eager to
help them in their battles. Spike reacts to them on a "human" level.
He cares only about them as beings, and would give anything to stop
the war.
Spike's Buster's friends, a big, somewhat rotund kid called "O" and
Worm Jessie whose diminutive stature belies her boundless courage,
will eventually become involved in the conflict. Sparkplug's lady
friend, called "Toots"can't understand why he's suddenly so busy all
the time, until she, too, gets caught up in the fray.
In addition to these human characters, there will be human pawns and
allies of the Decepticons.
Being highly developed, sentient machines, they will have distinctive
personalities.
For example:
OPTIMUS PRIME - If he had been born on Earth, he would be a doctor, a
mechanic, a scientist, and a warrior. But on Cybertron there is no
difference between these professions. So Optimus uses his skills to
heal and repair -- which are the same thing to Autobots -- to control
the world around him and, if necessary, to destroy. He is the leader
of the Earthbound Autobots, and also the largest, strongest and wisest
of them. Both in power and in intelligence, he has no equal. He has
the personality of an Abraham Lincoln. He can be immensely kind and
his compassion extends to all that lives, including the creatures of
Earth. Yet when what he holds sacred is threatened, he can wage war
swiftly and mercilessly.
PROWL - He is quiet, competent and very loyal, but perhaps his most
valuable trait is his almost endless patience. Once Prowl is assigned
a task, he will keep at it until it is accomplished. He works with
proven facts, not imagination or guesses. If he has any doubts, he
will radio Optimus Prime, his commander, before proceeding. He hates
doubt in any form, and strives to make everything he encounters
reasonable and logical. He believes it only when he can explain it.
Personally, he is friendly, but not too sociable. In conversation, he
will tend to listen instead of talk except when someone says something
unreasonable. Then, he will demand an explanation.
ULCHTAR STARSCREAM -Soaring swiftly through the clouds, Ulchtar
Starscream gazes with scorn on the creatures below. He is utterly
contemptuous of anything that cannot lift itself from the ground and
claim the sky. Occasionally, he expresses that contempt by diving and
striking, leaving flame and destruction as he again speeds upward.
Yet he is not totally insane. He needs a reason for his violence,
some way to justify it. This is provided by his Decepticon
companions. He believes their words about the war against the
Autobots being a holy mission because his soul requires that belief.
Without the sense of purpose that the other Decepticons provide, his
life would be meaningless and this he could not bear.
* The Decepticons' goals, and hence, the conflicts faced by the
Autobots will be developed. In the first adventure, the Decepticons
might decide to dry up the oceans in order to gain access to certain
raw materials from the ocean floor. As the series progresses, the
Decepticons will continue trying to sieze (sic), control and exploit
Earth's energy and resource. Ultimately, they will seek to transform
the Earth itself into a world like Cybertron -- a machine world/weapon
of incredible power, with which they intend to fulfill the destiny of
conquest they dreamed of for their lost world.
We see the Autobot/ Decepticon battles as far-ranging, outrageous
action sequences in various road-oriented settings. We'll do desert
highway battles with a Road Warrior feel, battles on the Pacific Coast
Highway along the cliffs, and some in city settings in crowded, high-
traffic areas. We're going to use lots of 'props." We plan to wreck
skyscrapers, Boulder Dam, offshore oil rigs and possibly the Grand
Canyon. The Indianapolis Motor Speedway certainly isn't safe either...
G.B. Blackrock
wrote:
> On Jun 29, 2:10 pm, "G.B. Blackrock" <nicodemusleg...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Jun 29, 1:18 pm, "G.B. Blackrock" <nicodemusleg...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
>
> > > On Jun 29, 2:39 am, Evil King Macrocranios
>
> > > <evil.king.macrocran...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > NEAT!!!
>
> > > > > Has this been transcribed and posted on the Usenet for preservation
> > > > > and posterity?
>
> > > > NO!!! GO FOR IT!
>
> > > I'll see what I can do, although these images are hard to read from....
>
> > OH, I feel stupid now. After slogging through page one, I see that a
> > MUCH clearer image of that first page follows.
>
> > Now I see why the link fell upon the page that it did....
>
> > Anyway, the work continues.
>
> > G.B. Blackrock
>
> OK. Here it is. I've retained as much of the formatting as I could
> on the blog, but some of that (especially not the strikethroughs)
> doesn't carry over to Usenet all that well, so I'll have this posted
> to my blog tomorrow morning. (That way, if I've made any mistakes, I
> can hopefully catch them between now and then)
>
OH! For those who don't know, my blog is at http://transformingseminarian.blogspot.com.
G.B. Blackrock
Evil King Macrocranios
> G.B. Blackrock
Woo-Hoo! Thanks! Honestly I hadn't read all of it yet. Going through
your version will be a lot easier for me.
...also known as Thunder
Punch/Counterpunch toy. Haven't seen actual pics before now (mind you, I
wasn't looking all that hard either). Anyhoo, thanks for posting them.
t.k.
G.B. Blackrock
wrote:
You're welcome.
G.B. Blackrock
Travoltron
> Also, something I don't often see discussed in TF circles: He was one
> of the editors on the Spider-Man Clone Saga arc of the mid-90s.
> Basically they kept shaking around how Marvel editorial worked, and at
> one point Budiansky was the head editor of all Spider-Man titles. And
> it was a trainwreck. Really terrible stuff. I felt so sorry for the
> poor guy when I read that.
I remember that being brought up here by someone at the time, at the
beginning of the whole Clone trainwreck. I think it may have been
before the fandom knew about Budiansky's role in creating the mythos
(tech specs, names). A lot of us (myself included) were really hard on
the guy because all we knew him as was the guy that wrote those campy
stories before Furman took over.
He gets huge props from me for his character naming and tech spec bios;
nobody has done better since. He's a great idea man, but I still don't
think he was a very good (story) writer.
Evil King Macrocranios
> much was already there when he got the assignment. Did Hasbro already
> have their corporate hearts set on alien robots, or would locally
> constructed mechas have been just fine?
GraphicNYC just did a great interview with Shooter about his career at
Marvel and he briefly touches on his part in developing the
Transformers property-
http://www.nycgraphicnovelists.com/2010/07/jim-shooters-secret-origin-in-his-own_26.html
(or alternatively- http://tinyurl.com/shootf )
It is really cool to read his side of the story. We already know he
hired Denny O'Neil to come up with the initial treatment but what's
new here (at least to me) is that he ended up using almost none of
that original O'Neil pitch. There's a bit in the interview where he
says the only Denny O'Neil idea that survived was naming the Autobot's
ship "Aunty". Shooter then must have played an enormous part in the
early development of the backstory and characters.
Budiansky rightfully deserves a lot of the credit but the
contributions made by other creative talents before he came on board
have been shrouded in mystery to me. Like how much was established by
Hasbro and Sunbow before they went to Marvel and who at Marvel
contributed what before Bob got the job? Shooter's recollections here
are brief but significant and they shed a bit of light on the early
part of that process. Budiansky has always assumed O'Neil named
Optimus Prime but by Shooter's account he himself came up the majority
of those early character names. If Budiansky didn't name Optimus and
O'Neil didn't name Optimus, then Jim Shooter needs to be in the Hall
of Fame for that alone!
> It would be fascinating to see Shooter's original notes, or Hasbro's
> notes to him.
I'd like to see the trashed Denny O'Neil treatment! I have a feeling
there's a lot more that Shooter could tell us in a Transformer centric
interview.
...also known as Thunder
"I told the writers ‘In each issue, something has to happen.’"
Why don't comic writers nowadays seem to understand this?
t.k.
Craig Little
I don't know, but the whole decompressed storytelling/writing for the trade
is a scourge on comics today. For an easy example, look at the story
progression of Issues 1 through 9 of the current IDW Transformers ongoing
and compare it to issues 1 through 9 of the original Marvel US series.
there is no comparison.
--
Craig (Although the art is generally better with IDW)
Scott
Doesn't nothing count as something? It could just be that it was taken
to its homeopathic extreme.
Onslaught Six
> I don't know, but the whole decompressed storytelling/writing for the trade
> is a scourge on comics today. For an easy example, look at the story
> progression of Issues 1 through 9 of the current IDW Transformers ongoing
> and compare it to issues 1 through 9 of the original Marvel US series.
>
> there is no comparison.
> --
> Craig (Although the art is generally better with IDW)
Hahaha no. At least not on the ongoing right now. Don Fig used to be
good, but his new crap is just that.
Writing for the trade is not inherently bad. It worked in All Hail
Megatron, for example, even though lots happened in every issue of
that. The thing of it is, you go and read the book in the trade
*anyway* when it's all done...so the floppies at this point are a mere
formality. And this isn't even counting people who literally don't or
can't buy the floppies, like me.
Onslaught Six
<evil.king.macrocran...@gmail.com> wrote:
> http://www.nycgraphicnovelists.com/2010/07/jim-shooters-secret-origin...
> (or alternatively-http://tinyurl.com/shootf)
Damn good read. Always liked Shooter, especially once learning he was
the one who founded Valiant. I love Valiant.
Craig Little
> On Jul 29, 4:52 pm, "Craig Little" <c_lit...@bmx.bom> wrote:
>
>> I don't know, but the whole decompressed storytelling/writing for
>> the trade is a scourge on comics today. For an easy example, look at
>> the story progression of Issues 1 through 9 of the current IDW
>> Transformers ongoing and compare it to issues 1 through 9 of the
>> original Marvel US series.
>>
>> there is no comparison.
>> --
>> Craig (Although the art is generally better with IDW)
>
> Hahaha no. At least not on the ongoing right now. Don Fig used to be
> good, but his new crap is just that.
>
...Also Known As Thunder
> Damn good read. Always liked Shooter, especially once learning he was
> the one who founded Valiant. I love Valiant.
I'm no Shooter apologist or anything but I think most of what he said
makes sense. I do think he made Marvel a good company--I started reading
when he was EIC and they had some really interesting stories at the
time. Once he was gone the whole speculator nonsense started up and the
Powers-that-be at Marvel couldn't hope on the wagon fast enough and I
feel they went downhill fast.
t.k.
Not_Available321
<evil.king.macrocran...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Bob Budiansky: Buster Witwicky. [audience laughs] Need I say more?
> Apparently he grew up with some kid named Buster in Pittsburgh and so
> he wanted to honor him in that way.
Ha! One more reason why the Steel City rulez. So Jim Shooter is from
Pittsburgh, huh? Well shit, you might as well just consider
Pittsburgh the birthplace of American Transformers™ as you know it!
WHAT DO YINZ THINK OF THAT?! HAHAHA...
Trolly 412 McBeam
Not_Available321
<evil.king.macrocran...@gmail.com> wrote:
> If Budiansky didn't name Optimus and O'Neil didn't name Optimus, then Jim
> Shooter needs to be in the Hall of Fame for that alone!
Hell Yeah! Totally agree with ya! Some fascinating info here
really... good stuff.
Trolly Yinz McBeam
Onslaught Six
> They style is different, not inherently bad. I prefer Guido and EJ Su though- Hide quoted text -
It doesn't work for G1. These guys aren't Movie guys or hybrid
universe guys--they're supposed to be the same guys we've known for so
long. If this was the look of Prime or something, I think I'd be
onboard, but definitely not for the ongoing G1.
...Also Known As Thunder
though. The more recent ones seem to be a bit of everyone--Su, Guidi,
somebody else in there... inconsistent style in a series is almost as
annoying as a radically different one.
t.k.