Transformers Cinematic Universe Is Either Rebooting, Or It's Not

[Zobovor]

So there's been buzzing for a little while that Paramount is rebooting the Transformers theatrical films, starting with a clean slate that would give Hasbro more creative control and possibly take the series in a different direction. It's no surprise to anyone that the movies haven't performed as well as they would have liked, and the general perception from critics and moviegoers is that the Transformers films have been loud and vapid and devoid of plot and content.

It's surprising to me how many of the younger fans have gotten so upset over this news. Difficult as it may be to believe, there are actually people who love the films and are actively angry at the idea that the cinematic universe they grew up on may be coming to an end. (It's easy to forget that the first movie came out over ten years ago.) Personally, I let out a sigh of relief when I first read that the movie universe was being rebooted; it's mind-boggling to me that there are so many fans who regarded this as bad news.

However, somebody asked a Hasbro representative about this at Toy Fair, and his reply was, "Don't believe everything you hear. Don't worry." This enigmatic response seems to be deliberately vague, and has the potential to start more rumors rather than squelch them. It almost seems like a carefully-orchestrated move to preserve interest in the upcoming Bumblebee solo film... because, after all, why would anybody go to see that movie while knowing that the world in which it takes place is about to be undone?

There was also some buzzing about Hasbro creating a larger cinematic universe in which all its properties could come out and play. They could theoretically create a fictional world in which Transformers, G.I. Joe, M.A.S.K. Visionaries, etc. all existed simultaneously, similar to what Marvel has successfully done and similar to what DC Comics, attempting to follow Marvel, has done with somewhat less success.

I've stopped caring about the movies. After four films' worth of gobbling up toys, I didn't see the Last Knight in theaters, didn't buy any of the merchandise, and I haven't bothered to get the film on home video. It's just so tiring. I know Hasbro will continue to churn these things out as long as they're even vaguely profitable, but for me, that's just not enough. I can't waste hours sitting in front of a screen watching events and characters that I'm not interested in. A reboot would be a chance to invent iterations of the characters that I can make some kind of emotional investment in, because it sure isn't happening here.


Zob (honestly, I think some people love the films just because they're not G1)

[No One In Particular]

I'm thinking that whether or not it will be a hard reboot will depend on
how the Bumblebee movie performs.

If it does well, proving that the current movieverse isn't completely
dead, we'll get a soft reboot. If the movie bombs, then I figure it's
all go, hell-bent-for-leather complete reboot in three or four years.

Brian

[Jonny Sorensen]

I'm all in for them doing ANYTHING different than what the have done so far.

At the end of the day any TF movie is just advertising for the brand that helps keep the media and toys alive, but hell I'd love if they could at least get a half decent plot in there, better dialog, better writing etc.

Something at least as good as the various animated shows over the years, most of which have far more interesting stories than any of the live action films about. If we're lucky we might even get a story about the ROBOTS, instead of a human story with robots in the background.

[Zobovor]

On Monday, April 9, 2018 at 7:36:21 PM UTC-6, Jonny Sorensen wrote:

> At the end of the day any TF movie is just advertising for the brand that
> helps keep the media and toys alive

Well, yes and no.

The 2007 movie was a HUGE shot in the arm for the brand. It thrust Transformers back into public awareness in a way that the franchise hadn't enjoyed since its original inception. As far as a lot of people were concerned, Transformers had disappeared after 1984 and that the Michael Bay film meant that Transformers was finally back! Because, apparently, these people didn't know anything about Generation 2 or Beast Wars or Beast Machines or Robots in Disguise or Transformers: Armada or Transformers: Energon or Transfomers: Cybertron!

The problem is, the Michael Bay films have become the laughingstock of the film industry. They're the red-headed stepchild of American cinema. People are aware that the films keep getting made, but the general consensus is that every single one of them is loud, explosive, and utterly empty. Long-running franchises like the Marvel Comics films or Star Wars are hugely successful and are arguably the pinnacle of mainstream cinema right now. Transformers can never hope to achieve anywhere near that level of greatness in its present form. You can't take these films seriously.

So, yeah, the films have made money for Hasbro, but I feel like they've hurt the public's overall perception of the brand. Transformers can't break free of the stigma of being a toy line for children with these kinds of bad movies. The Marvel films have demonstrated that comic book characters aren't just for geeks, but for a wider mainstream audience. Same with Star Wars. The Transformers films, meanwhile, are just as childish and immature and purile as most people believe adult Transformers fans to be.


Zob (haven't lived in my mom's basement since 1995)

[Marshall]

On Tuesday, April 10, 2018 at 12:09:57 AM UTC-4, Zobovor wrote:
> Long-running franchises like the Marvel Comics films or Star Wars are hugely successful and are arguably the pinnacle of mainstream cinema right now.
>

> Same with Star Wars. The Transformers films, meanwhile, are just as childish and immature and purile as most people believe adult Transformers fans to be.
>
>

You've got a point with the Marvel movies, but Star Wars has managed to drop into the same trash heap as Transformers. Of the last 5 Star Wars movies, 4 are comically bad and one is a nostalgia fest remake of the first one. Marvel has gotten away with what it does because each movie is in the same universe, but with a different cast of characters...
Transformers or Hasbro seems to think that only OP and Bumblebee are worth any character development.

[Gustavo Wombat, of the Seattle Wombats]

On Friday, April 13, 2018 at 8:20:58 AM UTC-7, Marshall wrote:
> On Tuesday, April 10, 2018 at 12:09:57 AM UTC-4, Zobovor wrote:
> > Long-running franchises like the Marvel Comics films or Star Wars are hugely successful and are arguably the pinnacle of mainstream cinema right now.
> >
> > Same with Star Wars. The Transformers films, meanwhile, are just as childish and immature and purile as most people believe adult Transformers fans to be.
> >
> >
>
> You've got a point with the Marvel movies, but Star Wars has managed to drop into the same trash heap as Transformers. Of the last 5 Star Wars movies, 4 are comically bad and one is a nostalgia fest remake of the first one.

I am baffled as to why you would pick 5 as the magic number.
- The Last Jedi
- Rogue One
- The Force Awakens
- Revenge of the Sith
- Attack of the Clones

You stop there? Not including The Phantom Menace? Am I missing something?

Aha! I am missing something... The Clone Wars movie, which did suck. But still, including some prequels but not others?

I don't have the TFA and TLJ as much as some people do, but I don't think they are very original and interesting either. TLJ tries to be different, and kind of fails. The prequels expanded the universe a lot more, even if the execution was piss-poor.

[Zobovor]

On Monday, April 16, 2018 at 1:47:57 AM UTC-6, Gustavo Wombat, of the Seattle Wombats wrote:

> I don't hate the TFA and TLJ as much as some people do, but I don't think

> they are very original and interesting either. TLJ tries to be different, and
> kind of fails. The prequels expanded the universe a lot more, even if the
> execution was piss-poor.

I think that Lucas had a sense that there are certain elements required to make a film feel like a Star Wars movie. Not just lightsabers and droids, but specific story beats like this guy gets his arm chopped off or that guy visits a place full of weird aliens or this other guy is part of a protracted ten-minute race sequence. It's one of the reason the prequel movies feel kind of same-ey. Lucas said it was deliberate, that he was composing cinematic poetry and that the events of the prequels "rhyme" with the events of the original trilogy.

A lot of the recent movies have been Star Wars in a blender. Instead of building a story with over-reaching themes and hidden subtext, it feels like they just ticked off items on a checklist. Droids? Check. Lightsabers? Check. Stormtroopers? Check. Is it coherent? Is it compelling? Who cares; it's Star Wars!

I'm growing more fond of the prequels with each passing day. The Phantom Menace got a lot of flak for beign a CGI spectacle, but at least it's fun to watch. You can care about what's happening on some level.


Zob (has a lot of trouble caring about any of the new characters)

[Irrellius Spamticon of the Potato People.]

I liked Revenge of the Sith. It ends on a down note, a tragedy. It wasn't the same as Empire Strikes Back, but nothing will be. Same reason I liked Rogue One. Both of these movies added in new things, designed new characters, new planets, new ships. (Except Shoretroopers, Shoretroopers were a stupid concept.) No it's not perfect, but it fits in well.

Attack of The Clones was just kind of there. I don't consider it good or bad. It's just a long exposition scene with sort of a "look at badass Jedi" scene at the end.

I hate Phantom Menace not just because of the CGI, but because of Jar-Jar and "Little Annie" make it more of a slapstick cartoon. Ididn't want cute. I wanted Star Wars, not Scooby-Doo. It's why parts of the Transformers movies annoy me. Skids and Mudflap, Sam's parents, to a lesser extent Wheelie. baby Dinobots serving no purpose. The Ewok movie is 100 times more watchable, even Ewoks can be cute but not complete idiots.

TFA was stupid, It did feel like a checklist. Jedi, check, strange alien bar? Check. Disc shaped ship? Check. Desert planet? Gotcha. Affirmative action hires? Woman, black guy, vaguely Latino guy that might be mistaken for white.. Death Star? No, we got an even bigger one. I felt the whole time that TFA was a knock-off.Names of common things changed slightly because Abrams didn't get copyright permission for Empire, Rebellion or Tatooine, so we got First Order, Resistance, and Jakku without any real explaining of anything, just another unanswered question in what seems like yet another of thousands of questions it's stringing us along with a vague promise to answer later. I like TLJ because it shits all over the expected story lines that have neatly been set up in the first one. Jock McHero's plans all fall apart, every one of them. A whole bunch of stuff TFA presented as some super mystery TLJ dismisses rightfully with a "who really cares?" All the story lines from TFA are forced to make a hard left turn in a way that JJ Abrams obviously never intended (God damn Abrams is a terrible director), and hopefully the next movie will be watchable for it. I'm just ignoring everything Finn and Rose did. While I don't have a problem with their characters, their entire story was an emotional appeal that contributed nothing.

[Marshall]

Not including Rogue One, probably should but didnt. The only thing hilariously bad about that one is that they killed off everyone...

[Irrellius Spamticon of the Potato People.]

It kinda had to kill everyone off, that's the best way to explain adding things we never see in the original movies. Also, it adds a sense of what the Empire is willing to do. It adds depth to everyone who goes on to another movie. Of course killing most of the cast is nothing new for Star Wars. It's interesting that we don't get to see these characters again. This is their whole story, these are their accomplishments, we don't have them in a mediocre movie 30 years later. The heroes don't always get the happiest ending.

[Jonny Sorensen]

I agree with pretty much everything you've said. I'm a lifelong marvel fan and a bigger movie / cinephile than Transformers fan really so no arguments here.
I'd rather watch anything from any classic director in any genre over the last 50+ years than something Bay has touched or been associated with.
However, as obnoxious and stupid as the Bayformer movies are, I don't find them to be any more bland , dumb, loud and obnoxious as the majority of action movie /spectacle blockbusters we get each year.

The Marvel movies in general are of better quality, but even so now and then you get an Avengers 2, which is a bit of a boring stinker when you watch it the second time and realize how much of is very much like a TF film. Voice snippets that make no sense to any story (mostly ADR that can be dropped in anywhere) bland one liners that are *almost* but not quite jokes, and really fall flat on the second viewing, and a plot that really goes nowhere, other than perhaps setting up / establishing Vision as part of A3.

[Zobovor]

On Sunday, June 24, 2018 at 1:25:23 AM UTC-6, Jonny Sorensen wrote:

> a plot that really goes nowhere, other than perhaps setting up / establishing
> Vision as part of A3.

At least the Marvel films have a direction to go in. They knew which characters needed to get solo films in order to introduce the Avengers one at a time, so it made sense when they finally all got together. Transformers has never had a direction; they've just been bouncing around and hitting random themes and plot points. Even when they do try to establish a hint as to what's coming next, half the time the plot point is left dangling because the next film goes in a completely different direction.

It would be one thing if we knew where the Transformers movies were headed. All we can really do is go, "Uh, maybe the next one should have Dinobots in it? Maybe Metroplex and Trypticon? Hey, howsabout Unicron?" and then collectively go yay!/boo! when these characters appear/fail to show up.


Zob (goes yay!/boo! a lot)