Debating the Italian Origin of Tarot Cards
Huck
the question, if everybody is convinced of an Italian origin of
theTarot cards.
I'm convinced, that the Tarot cards started in Italy - in a somewhat
not totally identical form to later developments.
The number 22 and its use inside systems with allegorical content,
even printed on playing cards, is not from Italy. It already happened
in China. These cards were related to Domino.
But all figures on these cards are Chinese figures, iconographically
rather different.
Other schemes using the number 22 are also known from before, very
prominent is the Hebrew alphabet, which also was interpreted
allegorically.
Allegories on playing cards before Tarot are also known. Johannes of
Rheinfelden describes such a deck 1377, the location is Freiburg in
southern Germany, not Italy. The used allegories are professions and
the professions relate to planets, as it was already given by
contemporary chess-allegories.
Other decks with similar allegorisation can't be excluded, we don't
know enough. Even a modell with 22 special elements could have been
there, but we've not a single evidence, just the fact of "missing
overview".
The idea of special cards - beside the normal suits - appears first
(to our eyes) with the 8 Imperatori cards, mentioned in Ferrara
(Italy) 1423.
Near to this time is the Michelino-deck (Milano, Italy), which is
later called a "ludus triumphorum (1449). The motifs are rather far
from the standard of the later Tarot cards (similar far as Sola-Busca
and the figures in the Bouiardo-poem), and espcially their number is
wrong: 16.
Evidence for decks with "special cards outside the suit-system"
outside of Italy in the early time is not given, the first, which
(perhaps) belongs in this category, would be the Guildhall- and
Goldschmidt cards.
Around 1441/42 2-3 documents appear in Ferrara, which testify, that
the name "Trionfi" in relation to playing cards exists, and one
document speaks of "14 figure". The specific situation of the 3rd
document gives reason to assume, that it refers to the criticalmoment
of invention of this type of deck. Of course, this assumption is not
totally provable in its truth.
At the same time probably the Cary Yale appears, and as far we
understand the situation of 1441, the Cary-Yale is personally
relatable to the same situation of January 1441 (assumed invention).
The Cary-Yale is likely to have had originally a 5x16-structure, in
the "invention-situation" probably a 5x14-deck was considered.
After this for a pause probably not much happened, but Trionfi-decks
must have had a small form of distribution, as Marcello gets 1448/1449
a deck as present.
After Sforzas occupation of Milano (1450) the interest in
Trionfi-decks explode in the course of some years. In this time likely
Bembo got the commission to produce a Trionfi-deck, the
Pierpont-Morgan-Bergamo-Tarocchi.
Bembo painted only 14 trumps (which we know), 6 other cards were
painted by a second artist, a likely date for the production should be
1451/1452.
Now explain this condition. The 20-trumps-composition of the deck is
very near to the later Tarot, but the 6 added cards are likely much
later done.
Ordinary playing card research came to the conclusion, that some cards
were lost and some cards were replaced. Their assumption: The
Pierpont-Morgan-Bergamo-Tarocchi testifies the existence of the
complete Tarot-sequence, the origin of it must be searched before the
production date of this date.
Autorbis argues, that this testifies, that Bembo painted a 5x14-deck
and that this is recognizable by the cards inside this group of 14
cards and inside this group of 6 cards, as they are - as he shows it -
as groups closed and complete ideas. Involved in his interpretation
are also numerological details, which sum up to a high degree of
unlikeliness of accident, which he calculated beside arguments from
other fields already as under 1:100.
Additionally to this suggestion arrived the confirmation of a document
in Ferrara in 1457, which talks clearly of 70 Trionfi-cards, not of
78.
From all this it is very, very likely, that decks with a 4x14 + 22 -
structure before 1457 didn't exist. Of course the possibility can't be
completely excluded, but the assumption of it is very near to be poor
fiction. There is no evidence of any 22 before 1457 in context to
playing cards beside the Domino-cards in China - and that's rather
far.
There is virtually nothing really opposing beside not being good
enough informed, not looking precisely enough and personally motivated
dreams.
The Pierpont-Morgan-Bergamo-Tarocchi clearly is a mother-deck to the
later Tarot-development. It had only 14 trumps.
Where outside of Italy should have the further development have taken
place? Of course it was in Italy. Even when single motifs like Devil
and Tower (which are not part of the 20
Pierpont-Morgan-Bergamo-Tarocchi) finally might have developed in
France (a good chance), one has to see clearly, that the whole concept
was born in Italy and probably we even do know the persons connected
to deciding developments by name - real persons, not fictious
Templers, wise men, magicians or hidden orders.
Probably 3 young girls, teenagers in the age of 14-16, had the most
deciding influence. It was the youth, who loved this colourful cards,
and it was women, who played cards, men prefered chess.
Domino-cards in China
http://www.ahs.uwaterloo.ca/~museum/Archive/Wilkinson/Wilkinson.html
Johannes of Rheinfelden
http://www.trionfi.com/01/e/
see menu: Johannes
Imperatori in Ferrara
http://www.trionfi.com/01/e/
see menu: Imperatori-decks in Ferrara
Michelino-deck
http://trionfi.com/01/b
Dating the Cary-Yale
http://www.trionfi.com/01/c/
see menu: Dating
Cary-Yale as 5x16
http://www.trionfi.com/01/c/
see menu: Cary Yale
Ferrara 1441
http://trionfi.com/01/b
Analyses of the documents
http://www.trionfi.com/01/e/r71/
Documents 1441/1442
http://www.trionfi.com/01/e/r71/
see menu: "14 Figure", Doc 1, Doc 2
Document 1457
http://www.trionfi.com/01/e/r71/
see menu: Doc 16
Pierpont-Morgan-Bergamo-Tarocchi, 5x14-theory
http://www.trionfi.com/01/f
whatnext
> Hi, the following is from a debate at Aeclectic. It was my answer to
> the question, if everybody is convinced of an Italian origin of
> theTarot cards.
>
> I'm convinced, that the Tarot cards started in Italy - in a somewhat
> not totally identical form to later developments.
>
> The number 22 and its use inside systems with allegorical content,
> even printed on playing cards, is not from Italy. It already happened
> in China. These cards were related to Domino.
> But all figures on these cards are Chinese figures, iconographically
> rather different.
> Other schemes using the number 22 are also known from before, very
> prominent is the Hebrew alphabet, which also was interpreted
> allegorically.
well, dna has 22 protein codons or something like that. 10 double
stops and 22 protein letters. read Jeremy narby "the cosmic serpent".
it is most likely that the number 22 is one of those pythagorean
constants. 12 is another one.
Gea Jones
Viterbo, Tuscany, I saw some Tarot cards there when I was little , along
with an Etruscan vase , belonging to a friend of my family,
Gea
"Huck" <taro...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:4d63535f.04031...@posting.google.com...
Judith Scobee
! Before they went to Italy! Researched on the web!
Enjoy the day! <[:-)
= Judy =
Karipidu
Take a look at that:
ArtLex on Mosaics - ... a villa at Daphne, near Antioch, Asia Minor ... 343.1
x 288.7 cm), Metropolitan Museum of Art ... illustrated instructions, photo
features and pique assiette galleries. ...
http://www.artlex.com/ArtLex/m/mosaic.html
Marianna
Rhianna
I think Tarot cards are derived from Byzantine icons.
~Cheers~
Rhianna
http://www.rhianna.uni.cc/
http://www.pipeline.com/~rhianna
Karipidu
>>>I read somewhere, that there were Tarot type cards in Egypt around 13__
>>>! Before they went to Italy! Researched on the web!
>>>Enjoy the day! <[:-)
>>>= Judy =
>>Take a look at that:
>>ArtLex on Mosaics - ... a villa at Daphne, near Antioch, Asia Minor ...
>343.1
>>x 288.7 cm), Metropolitan Museum of Art ... illustrated instructions, photo
>>features and pique assiette galleries. ...
>>http://www.artlex.com/ArtLex/m/mosaic.html
>From: Rhianna rhi...@pipeline.com
>I think Tarot cards are derived from Byzantine icons.
during the entire Roman Period. This panel, decorating the floor
There was not a Roman house without pictures, scenes of
Greek Mythology on its wall or its floor during the Roman Period.
Marianna
Rhianna
Yes...I wonder about the general transition from the panels,
from the floors to cards or to small wood blocks of icons. In order
for Tarot to develop and thrive, there must have been a more general
distribution among at least a certain class of the population. I
often think of transitions from Mythology to Orthodoxy and then to the
blend that Tarot is.
Karipidu
>>>>ArtLex on Mosaics - ... a villa at Daphne, near Antioch, Asia Minor ...
>>>343.1
>>>>x 288.7 cm), Metropolitan Museum of Art ... illustrated instructions,
>photo
>>>>features and pique assiette galleries. ...
>>>>http://www.artlex.com/ArtLex/m/mosaic.html
>From: Rhianna rhi...@pipeline.com
>Yes...I wonder about the general transition from the panels,
>from the floors to cards or to small wood blocks of icons. In order
>for Tarot to develop and thrive, there must have been a more general
>distribution among at least a certain class of the population. I
>often think of transitions from Mythology to Orthodoxy and then to the
>blend that Tarot is.
In the ancient Byzantine churches there are still mosaic icons.
Take a look at that: ( about papyros)
THE PAPYRUS AND ITS ORIGINS - ... In Greek, at least in the VI-V century BC,
the ... the IV century BC, the plant was also named papyros. ... of a
collection of famous papyri (discovered between 1752 ...
http://www.ptahhotep.com/articles/Papyrus.html
Marianna
Rhianna
Yes, I know & thank you for the link. I believe icons conveyed (and
still convey) very powerful mesages. When Tarot first consolidated
popularity, it drew its strength from such power.