Poor guy. That young and has to use a Mac.

[Holger Marzen]

OK, he had the choice between Mac and Windows and was promised to get a
Linux-box after his probation time.

Read about the woes of using a Mac in a technically oriented
environment:

http://linux.autostatic.com/2013/11/05/a-month-on-a-mac

Maybe the Windows box and a decent monitor would have been a better
choice.

[Marc Haber]

otoh, on the DENOG meeting last week there was a fair share of Macs
around. Probably even more than Windows and Linux. There must be
something to those machines that makes techies choose them. Even the
lecture slides were presented using a Mac.

otoh, I was really astonished about how many techies choose Windows on
their free will (or get forced to by employer policies).

Greetings
Marc
--
-------------------------------------- !! No courtesy copies, please !! -----
Marc Haber | " Questions are the | Mailadresse im Header
Mannheim, Germany | Beginning of Wisdom " | http://www.zugschlus.de/
Nordisch by Nature | Lt. Worf, TNG "Rightful Heir" | Fon: *49 621 72739834

[Peter Corlett]

Holger Marzen <hol...@marzen.de> wrote:
> OK, he had the choice between Mac and Windows and was promised to get a
> Linux-box after his probation time. Read about the woes of using a Mac in a
> technically oriented environment:

> http://linux.autostatic.com/2013/11/05/a-month-on-a-mac

"I don't want to get used to the Cmd button at all" is very much the words of a
stubborn and ignorant luser. As indeed are the rest of his whinges. He's lazy,
arrogant, and doesn't want to learn how to use the tool.

> Maybe the Windows box and a decent monitor would have been a better choice.

Well, he could have installed Linux on it. Just like he could have done on the
Mac.

[Joe Zeff]

On Sun, 17 Nov 2013 14:44:54 +0000, Peter Corlett wrote:

> Well, he could have installed Linux on it. Just like he could have done
> on the Mac.

There are ways to prevent that, and good reasons[1] to do so. If you
understand them, explanation is redundant; if not, it's UI.

[1]From the company's POV, at least.

--
Joe Zeff -- The Guy With The Sideburns:
http://www.zeff.us http://www.lasfs.info
I was looking at some BMI charts this last week, and calculate that I
am, at presnt, about 10" too short.

[Peter Corlett]

Joe Zeff <the.guy.with....@lasfs.info> wrote:
> On Sun, 17 Nov 2013 14:44:54 +0000, Peter Corlett wrote:
>> Well, he could have installed Linux on it. Just like he could have done on
>> the Mac.

> There are ways to prevent that, and good reasons[1] to do so. If you
> understand them, explanation is redundant; if not, it's UI.
>
> [1]From the company's POV, at least.

I also have a "company director" hat to go alongside my "polyglot programmer"
and "BOFH" hats, so I'm painfully aware of the reasons. It's a wonder I have
any time to wear my "alcoholic in training" hat. The latter hat obviously gets
a bit of use whenever I receive long brown envelopes addressed to the company,
and I need to sit down with a stiff one before opening them.

My general attitude is that if we have hired skilled professionals, we should
treat them as such and let them use whatever tools they prefer, provided it
doesn't hinder them in their job and they're not making us criminally liable by
installing pirate software on company equipment.

[Joe Zeff]

On Sun, 17 Nov 2013 21:29:35 +0000, Peter Corlett wrote:

> I also have a "company director" hat to go alongside my "polyglot
> programmer" and "BOFH" hats, so I'm painfully aware of the reasons. It's
> a wonder I have any time to wear my "alcoholic in training" hat.

Is one of your hats "Archbishop of Titipoo?"

--
Joe Zeff -- The Guy With The Sideburns:
http://www.zeff.us http://www.lasfs.info

"This message represents the official view of the voices in my head."

[Garrett Wollman]

In article <20131117220934....@firedrake.org>,
Roger Bell_West <roger+a...@nospam.firedrake.org> wrote:
>Modern corporate practice seems to tend towards treating employees as
>interchangeable parts, and regarding one who can just barely do the
>job to an acceptable standard as better than one who can do it well
>(because you can pay him less).
>
>That this permits no employee to take pride in his work may, in fact,
>be regarded as a feature.

If you haven't yet done so, run, do not walk, to GooTube and search
for "bryan cantrill surge 2013". It's a little over an hour and very,
very worth it.

-GAWollman

--
Garrett A. Wollman | What intellectual phenomenon can be older, or more oft
wol...@bimajority.org| repeated, than the story of a large research program
Opinions not shared by| that impaled itself upon a false central assumption
my employers. | accepted by all practitioners? - S.J. Gould, 1993

[Alan J Rosenthal]

Holger Marzen <hol...@marzen.de> writes:
>http://linux.autostatic.com/2013/11/05/a-month-on-a-mac

Bluuh. Instead of "all the world's MS-Windows", he's doing "all the world's
pc-compatible". Equally closed-minded.

His belief that he has breadth of experience through both ms-windows and
linux seems to be like the bar in the Blues Brothers that has "both kinds"
of music (Country _and_ Western!).

[LP]

On 2013-11-17, Peter Corlett <ab...@mooli.org.uk> wrote:
>
> "I don't want to get used to the Cmd button at all" is very much the words of a
> stubborn and ignorant luser. As indeed are the rest of his whinges. He's lazy,
> arrogant, and doesn't want to learn how to use the tool.

As far as I can see, the most valid of all his gripes is that he doesn't like
the monitor - and when it comes to staring at a screen all day I'm not overly
keen on glossy either.

All his keyboard related gripes can be solved by (shock! horror!) plugging in
a different keyboard - the rest are just him effectively saying "it's different,
I don't want to learn! wah wah wah."

Suck it up kid, it could be a whole load worse.

-Paul
--
http://paulseward.com

[Julian Macassey]

On Sun, 17 Nov 2013 21:29:35 +0000 (UTC), Peter Corlett
<ab...@mooli.org.uk> wrote:

>
> My general attitude is that if we have hired skilled
> professionals, we should treat them as such and let them use
> whatever tools they prefer, provided it doesn't hinder them in
> their job and they're not making us criminally liable by
> installing pirate software on company equipment.
>

My rule is if you know what you are asking for, you can
have it. Vague requests, are ignored.


--
"We can’t be successful unless we lie to customers.” Larry
Ellison to Bruce Scott.

[Seebs]

On 2013-11-18, LP <use...@lpbk.net> wrote:
> As far as I can see, the most valid of all his gripes is that he doesn't like
> the monitor - and when it comes to staring at a screen all day I'm not overly
> keen on glossy either.

At the risk of UI, I have been told that 3M makes "privacy protectors" which
have the side-effect of rendering screens less glossy. Which may apply to
laptops as well. Unfortunately, I am not able to apply screen protectors
without ending up with a cat under them.

-s
--
Copyright 2013, all wrongs reversed. Peter Seebach / usenet...@seebs.net
http://www.seebs.net/log/ <-- lawsuits, religion, and funny pictures
Autism Speaks does not speak for me. http://autisticadvocacy.org/
I am not speaking for my employer, although they do rent some of my opinions.

[Joe Zeff]

On Mon, 18 Nov 2013 17:01:32 +0000, Roger Bell_West wrote:

> I can see no sensible objection to "If you have something other than the
> standard corporate desktop build, all software support is your problem."

"We're paying you to be a software developer, not a system administrator."

--
Joe Zeff -- The Guy With The Sideburns:
http://www.zeff.us http://www.lasfs.info

If you can measure a computer's error rate,
it's too high.

[Lawns 'R' Us]

On 2013-11-18, Julian Macassey <jul...@tele.com> wrote:
> My rule is if you know what you are asking for, you can
> have it. Vague requests, are ignored.

Great! I'll have root to the payroll system, thank you very much.

[Alexander Schreiber]

Roger Bell_West <roger+a...@nospam.firedrake.org> wrote:

> On 2013-11-17, Peter Corlett wrote:
>>My general attitude is that if we have hired skilled professionals, we should
>>treat them as such and let them use whatever tools they prefer, provided it
>>doesn't hinder them in their job and they're not making us criminally liable by
>>installing pirate software on company equipment.
>

> Modern corporate practice seems to tend towards treating employees as
> interchangeable parts, and regarding one who can just barely do the
> job to an acceptable standard as better than one who can do it well
> (because you can pay him less).
>
> That this permits no employee to take pride in his work may, in fact,
> be regarded as a feature.

And companies still are utterly surprised, time and again, when they
find out - usually the hard way - that this is sword that cuts both
ways.

Kind regards,
Alex.
--
"Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls and
looks like work." -- Thomas A. Edison

[Joe Zeff]

On Mon, 18 Nov 2013 20:49:06 +0000, Roger Bell_West wrote:

> On 2013-11-18, Joe Zeff wrote:
>>On Mon, 18 Nov 2013 17:01:32 +0000, Roger Bell_West wrote:
>>> I can see no sensible objection to "If you have something other than
>>> the standard corporate desktop build, all software support is your
>>> problem."
>>"We're paying you to be a software developer, not a system
>>administrator."
>

> "Are you saying my work is not satisfactory? Would you care to put that
> in writing?"

"No, your work is highly satisfactory. However, we don't want you to be
distracted by having to act as the system administrator for your
workstation, so we're not going to let you install whatever OS and/or
software you want because that's not what we're paying you for."

Yes, I understand that in the long run it might be more cost effective
for them to let you install a free OS that's more stable and secure than
what everybody else uses, but from their POV the above makes sense.

--
Joe Zeff -- The Guy With The Sideburns:
http://www.zeff.us http://www.lasfs.info

The thing they miss is that truth doesn't
really care what you want it to be.

[Marc Haber]

Roger Bell_West <roger+a...@nospam.firedrake.org> wrote:
>"If you have something other than
>the standard corporate desktop build, all software support is your
>problem."

Companies afraid that an employee-administrated workstation will
infest the corporate network with all kinds of dangerous malware.

Aside the "No, you won't get our standard corporate desktop build in a
VM" attitude which kills the canonical fallback to debug a local
system.

[Peter H. Coffin]

On Mon, 18 Nov 2013 12:20:55 +0000 (UTC), LP wrote:

> On 2013-11-17, Peter Corlett <ab...@mooli.org.uk> wrote:
>
>> "I don't want to get used to the Cmd button at all" is very much the
>> words of a stubborn and ignorant luser. As indeed are the rest of his
>> whinges. He's lazy, arrogant, and doesn't want to learn how to use
>> the tool.
>
> As far as I can see, the most valid of all his gripes is that he
> doesn't like the monitor - and when it comes to staring at a screen
> all day I'm not overly keen on glossy either.

Agreed, but that just makes it pretty lazy for a stab at "OMG Using a
Mac!" Might as well complain that they don't come with trackballs
anymore or have red cases.

> All his keyboard related gripes can be solved by (shock! horror!)
> plugging in a different keyboard - the rest are just him effectively
> saying "it's different, I don't want to learn! wah wah wah."
>
> Suck it up kid, it could be a whole load worse.

Sub-$200 netbook anyone?

--
I didn't need to sabotage anything. Not being around to say "No that
won't work" or "you can't do it that way" is more than enough damage.
(Ego problem? It's not a problem.)
-- Graham Reed, on job endings

[Peter H. Coffin]

On Sun, 17 Nov 2013 09:40:04 +0100, Marc Haber wrote:
> otoh, on the DENOG meeting last week there was a fair share of Macs
> around. Probably even more than Windows and Linux. There must be
> something to those machines that makes techies choose them. Even the
> lecture slides were presented using a Mac.
>
> otoh, I was really astonished about how many techies choose Windows on
> their free will (or get forced to by employer policies).

<possible_advocacy>Vg'f jnl rnfvre gb bppnfvbanyyl sver hc n Jvaqbjf
raivebazrag ba n Znp guna vg vf gb sver hc n Znp bar ba n Jvaqbjf
znpuvar. Naq gur uneqjner ernyyl vf cerggl avpr. Vg oernxf, yvxr nyy
znpuvarf qb, ohg qbrfa'g frrz gb zhpu zber bsgra guna nal bgure
cyngsbez.</possible_advocacy>

And, if you're doing your work in a shell as the good lard intended, who
cares what's running the ssh client?

--
60. My five-year-old child advisor will also be asked to decipher any
code I am thinking of using. If he breaks the code in under 30
seconds, it will not be used. Note: this also applies to passwords.
--Peter Anspach's list of things to do as an Evil Overlord

[Peter Corlett]

Peter H. Coffin <hel...@ninehells.com> wrote:
[...]

> And, if you're doing your work in a shell as the good lard intended, who
> cares what's running the ssh client?

People with vision problems who find that they can't find anything comfortable
to read out of Windows' atrocious selection of atrocious fixed-width fonts.

There's evidently something else about PuTTY on Windows that is pure evil,
because my skin is crawling just *thinking* about it even though I cannot
recall what it is. Apparently I've merely drunk *nearly* enough to forget and
need to try harder.

[Mike A]

Peter Corlett <ab...@mooli.org.uk> wrote in <l6gijd$buf$1...@mooli.org.uk>:

Little things like END not taking you to the end of a line, CTRL-END not
taking you to the bottom of a line, and a few other key mapping issues?

--
Judging by this particular thread, many people in this group spend years
taking illogical, pointless orders from morons and having their will to
live systematically crushed. And that's the teachers. Think what it's like
for the kids! -- after Rayner, in the Monastery

[Peter Corlett]

Mike A <mi...@mikea.ath.cx> wrote:
> Peter Corlett <ab...@mooli.org.uk> wrote in <l6gijd$buf$1...@mooli.org.uk>:

[...]

>> There's evidently something else about PuTTY on Windows that is pure evil,
>> because my skin is crawling just *thinking* about it even though I cannot
>> recall what it is. Apparently I've merely drunk *nearly* enough to forget
>> and need to try harder.

> Little things like END not taking you to the end of a line, CTRL-END not
> taking you to the bottom of a line, and a few other key mapping issues?

*twitch* *twitch*

Actually, I fired up the current version in a VM[0] to try and remind me of the
horrors. The main one is indeed that all of Windows' fixed-width fonts resemble
either chicken scratchings or spider webs after a heroic dose of LSD. The next
one is that the settings page is modal and doesn't live-update display settings
to the window so you can't see if the setting might reduce the migraines a bit.
Then the way that there's so much mouse clicking to return to the settings menu
for another go. Or the poor choice of default mappings for the ANSI colours so
colourblind people have a hell of a time with them.

I can't help noting that "user interface" and "punch in the face" sound
similar, and are generally the same thing on Windows.


[0] Windows is basically an incredibly slow and inefficient bootloader for
Steam games that don't yet have native Mac versions. Otherwise I wouldn't
have it around at all.

[Julian Macassey]

On Tue, 19 Nov 2013 20:44:29 +0000 (UTC), Peter Corlett
<ab...@mooli.org.uk> wrote:
>
> There's evidently something else about PuTTY on Windows that is pure evil,
> because my skin is crawling just *thinking* about it even though I cannot
> recall what it is. Apparently I've merely drunk *nearly* enough to forget and
> need to try harder.

There are so many things wrong with PuTTY, it is a
question of where to start.

Then again, Microsoft have the personnel, money and clout
to have put ssh and a decent terminal in the basic distro.





--
"There's no chance that the iPhone is going to get any significant
market share. No chance." Steve Ballmer 6/29/2007

[Lawns 'R' Us]

On 2013-11-19, Julian Macassey <jul...@tele.com> wrote:
> Then again, Microsoft have the personnel, money and clout
> to have put ssh and a decent terminal in the basic distro.

That assumes that Microsoft is willing to acknowledge the existence of
operating systems other than their own, and make it easier for their
customers to interoperate with said operating systems. Kinda goes
against the grain of thirty plus years of corporate history, doesn't
it?

[Garrett Wollman]

In article <slrnl8nufd...@invalid.hostname.does.not.exist.666.au>,

On the other hand, CbjreFuryy.

[Maarten Wiltink]

"Peter H. Coffin" <hel...@ninehells.com> wrote in message
news:slrnl8k7ap....@nibelheim.ninehells.com...

> [...] pretty lazy for a stab at "OMG Using a Mac!" Might as

> well complain that they don't come with trackballs anymore
> or have red cases.

There's a very nice, very pink full tower in a prominent place
in our living room. It was born beige, but that's nothing a
pot of paint won't cure.

My dad was horrified. That was just a bonus.

Tebrgwrf,
Maarten Wiltink

[Steve VanDevender]

"Maarten Wiltink" <maa...@kittensandcats.net> writes:

> There's a very nice, very pink full tower in a prominent place
> in our living room. It was born beige, but that's nothing a
> pot of paint won't cure.

You sound just like George R. R. Martin trying to write about sex.

--
Steve VanDevender "I ride the big iron" http://hexadecimal.uoregon.edu/
ste...@hexadecimal.uoregon.edu PGP keyprint 4AD7AF61F0B9DE87 522902969C0A7EE8
Little things break, circuitry burns / Time flies while my little world turns
Every day comes, every day goes / 100 years and nobody shows -- Happy Rhodes

[Maarten Wiltink]

"Steve VanDevender" <ste...@hexadecimal.uoregon.edu> wrote in message
news:l6kfqt$25s$1...@thames.novusordo.net...

> "Maarten Wiltink" <maa...@kittensandcats.net> writes:

>> There's a very nice, very pink full tower in a prominent place
>> in our living room. It was born beige, but that's nothing a
>> pot of paint won't cure.
>
> You sound just like George R. R. Martin trying to write about sex.

Ahhh, pink wedding.

I'm quite sure it wasn't about sex. Although incredulous remarks
about the desktop settings have been made. It's (a) legible from
three metres away, and (b) also pink. (On a 40" television; hence
the font size. Now you've made me want an Ambilight.)

Tebrgwrf,
Maarten Wiltink

[Steve VanDevender]

"Maarten Wiltink" <maa...@kittensandcats.net> writes:

> "Steve VanDevender" <ste...@hexadecimal.uoregon.edu> wrote in message
> news:l6kfqt$25s$1...@thames.novusordo.net...
>> "Maarten Wiltink" <maa...@kittensandcats.net> writes:
>
>>> There's a very nice, very pink full tower in a prominent place
>>> in our living room. It was born beige, but that's nothing a
>>> pot of paint won't cure.
>>
>> You sound just like George R. R. Martin trying to write about sex.
>
> Ahhh, pink wedding.

To be honest I probably should have said "you sound just like what was
described to me about George R. R. Martin trying to write about sex."
I personally haven't tried to read those books, but I heard an extended
discussion about how bad the sex scenes were, at one point focusing on
the phrase "fat pink mast", which is what your post reminded me of.

> I'm quite sure it wasn't about sex. Although incredulous remarks
> about the desktop settings have been made. It's (a) legible from
> three metres away, and (b) also pink. (On a 40" television; hence
> the font size. Now you've made me want an Ambilight.)

--
For I know what you don't know / And I see things you'll never see /
And I've a different way of living, you know / And I've such a different
frame of mind, and so ... / I'm on my way to the funnyfarm
-- Happy Rhodes, "To the Funnyfarm"

[Alan J Rosenthal]

ab...@mooli.org.uk (Peter Corlett) writes:
>... all of Windows' fixed-width fonts resemble

>either chicken scratchings or spider webs after a heroic dose of LSD.

Hmm. I thought that fixed-width fonts were supposed to be _different_ from
proportional fonts.

[Maarten Wiltink]

"Michel" <ab...@rubberchicken.nl> wrote in message
news:r0kbma-...@rubberchicken.nocrap...
> On Fri, 22 Nov 2013 17:07:11 +0100, Maarten Wiltink wrote:

<pink Windows, Ambilight>

> Blokker had a cheap (20E) knockoff for sale recently, maybe they still
> have some. It seems to work well enough...

So how does it know what colour to turn? It seems too cheap to include
a signal analyser.

But, for better or worse - probably better - the wall behind the TV isn't
white.


> Not commenting on the choice of colour, other than asking if you used
> to live in our house: http://rubberchicken.nl/pics/doemaar.jpg

That's _remarkably_ like the shade of pink on my PC, but otherwise
it looks like no house I've ever lived in. Are the doors as awkwardly
placed as they look?

(Behind our front door is another door to the hall, which has the
potential to bang into the downstairs toilet door. That's normally
closed, except on the evening of November 2nd, 2000, when we came
home to find the house burgled. Only time in recorded history those
two doors hit each other, also because we don't use the front door
very much. The kitchen cupboard door, now that's another story. It
has Dents.)

Tebrgwrf,
Maarten Wiltink

[John F. Eldredge]

On Mon, 25 Nov 2013 11:05:47 +0100, Michel wrote:

> On Fri, 22 Nov 2013 17:07:11 +0100, Maarten Wiltink wrote:

>> I'm quite sure it wasn't about sex. Although incredulous remarks about
>> the desktop settings have been made. It's (a) legible from three metres
>> away, and (b) also pink. (On a 40" television; hence the font size. Now
>> you've made me want an Ambilight.)
>

> Blokker had a cheap (20E) knockoff for sale recently, maybe they still
> have some. It seems to work well enough...
>

> Not commenting on the choice of colour, other than asking if you used to
> live in our house: http://rubberchicken.nl/pics/doemaar.jpg

For many years, there was a house here in Nashville, TN, USA, with the
entire outside painted that shade of pink. They finally painted it a
light blue, which is definitely easier on the eyes.

--
John F. Eldredge -- jo...@jfeldredge.com
"Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that.
Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that."
Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.

[Julian Macassey]

On 29 Nov 2013 16:39:56 GMT, John F. Eldredge <jo...@jfeldredge.com> wrote:
> On Mon, 25 Nov 2013 11:05:47 +0100, Michel wrote:
>
>> On Fri, 22 Nov 2013 17:07:11 +0100, Maarten Wiltink wrote:
>>> I'm quite sure it wasn't about sex. Although incredulous remarks about
>>> the desktop settings have been made. It's (a) legible from three metres
>>> away, and (b) also pink. (On a 40" television; hence the font size. Now
>>> you've made me want an Ambilight.)
>>
>> Blokker had a cheap (20E) knockoff for sale recently, maybe they still
>> have some. It seems to work well enough...
>>
>> Not commenting on the choice of colour, other than asking if you used to
>> live in our house: http://rubberchicken.nl/pics/doemaar.jpg
>
> For many years, there was a house here in Nashville, TN, USA, with the
> entire outside painted that shade of pink. They finally painted it a
> light blue, which is definitely easier on the eyes.

There used to be a shopping mall in Simi Valley, (LA
Area) California that was in that pink. It was known locally as
the Pepto-Bismall.

http://www.pepto-bismol.com/products/liquid


--
“Fuck the drug war. Dropping acid was a profound turning point for me, a
seminal experience. I make no apologies for it. More people should do acid.
It should be sold over the counter.” ― George Carlin

[Wojciech Derechowski]

On Fri, 29 Nov 2013 17:44:53 +0000, Julian Macassey wrote:
> On 29 Nov 2013 16:39:56 GMT, John F. Eldredge <jo...@jfeldredge.com> wrote:
>> On Mon, 25 Nov 2013 11:05:47 +0100, Michel wrote:
>>
>>> On Fri, 22 Nov 2013 17:07:11 +0100, Maarten Wiltink wrote:
>>>> I'm quite sure it wasn't about sex. Although incredulous remarks about
>>>> the desktop settings have been made. It's (a) legible from three metres
>>>> away, and (b) also pink. (On a 40" television; hence the font size. Now
>>>> you've made me want an Ambilight.)
>>>
>>> Blokker had a cheap (20E) knockoff for sale recently, maybe they still
>>> have some. It seems to work well enough...
>>>
>>> Not commenting on the choice of colour, other than asking if you used to
>>> live in our house: http://rubberchicken.nl/pics/doemaar.jpg
>>
>> For many years, there was a house here in Nashville, TN, USA, with the
>> entire outside painted that shade of pink. They finally painted it a
>> light blue, which is definitely easier on the eyes.
>
> There used to be a shopping mall in Simi Valley, (LA
> Area) California that was in that pink. It was known locally as
> the Pepto-Bismall.
>
> http://www.pepto-bismol.com/products/liquid

"The image on the right simulates colour blindness":

http://www.spectraledge.co.uk/


--
WD

Who is Entscheidungs and what is his problem?

[ppint. at pplay]

- hi; "Steve VanDevender" critiqued:

> "Maarten Wiltink" <maa...@kittensandcats.net> writes:
>> There's a very nice, very pink full tower in a prominent place
>> in our living room. It was born beige, but that's nothing a
>> pot of paint won't cure.
>
>You sound just like George R. R. Martin trying to write about sex.

- or maybe that "tower" is what what greeted far-flung
mind-travellers with "hi pal. i trade with you my mind." ?

- love, ppint.
[drop the "v", and change the "f" to a "g", to email or cc.]
--
"No creature without tentacles had ever developed true intelligence."
- "Hunting Problem" Robert Sheckley

[ppint. at pplay]

- hi; jo...@jfeldredge.com reported:

> Michel wrote:
>> Maarten Wiltink wrote:
>>>I'm quite sure it wasn't about sex. Although incredulous remarks about
>>>the desktop settings have been made. It's (a) legible from three metres
>>>away, and (b) also pink. (On a 40" television; hence the font size. Now
>>>you've made me want an Ambilight.)

[>]

>>Not commenting on the choice of colour, other than asking if you used to
>>live in our house: http://rubberchicken.nl/pics/doemaar.jpg
>
>For many years, there was a house here in Nashville, TN, USA, with the
>entire outside painted that shade of pink. They finally painted it a
>light blue, which is definitely easier on the eyes.

- some pretty fine music came out of a big pink house c. 1970...

- love, ppint.
[drop the "v", and change the "f" to a "g", to email or cc.]
--

"if it's pink, it's working."
- encouraging advice given by a friend to a post-op t-g,
ipswitch, c. 1970

[Lawns 'R' Us]

On 2013-12-12, E.P.Sporgersi <E.P.Sporgersi> wrote:
> Yes, I need to get out, but there's too much shit going on already to
> make that a feasible option right now.

I Feel Your Pain.

Gur wbo V unq va gur Ynaq bs gur Ybat Juvgr Pybhq jnf, funyy jr fnl,
abg jung V rkcrpgrq. V jnf tebffyl haunccl gurer. Ohg nsgre frira
zbaguf bs harzcyblzrag, V qvqa'g ernyyl srry gung V unq zhpu pubvpr
ohg gb fgvpx vg bhg hagvy fbzrguvat ryfr pnzr nybat gb ercynpr vg
(engure guna whfg hc naq dhvggvat.)

Qrny jvgu jung lbh pna, naq qb jung lbh zhfg gb npprcg gur erfg hagvy
vg vf gvzr gb qrny jvgu _gung_, nf jryy. V fvapreryl ubcr vg vzcebirf
sbe lbh, naq fbbare engure guna yngre.

[Juergen Nickelsen]

Joe Zeff <the.guy.with....@lasfs.info> writes:

> On Mon, 18 Nov 2013 17:01:32 +0000, Roger Bell_West wrote:
>
>> I can see no sensible objection to "If you have something other than the
>> standard corporate desktop build, all software support is your problem."
>
> "We're paying you to be a software developer, not a system administrator."

When I was at WeMakeChips, they (or at least the local admins, from
before the borging) were tolerant enough let me have a scrap PC with
FreeBSD on it in some abandoned room; there was an plausible official
reason to keep it, but the actual reason was "to keep my sanity". It
worked.

--
Var54802=Bist du du möchtest die gegenwärtigen änderungen speichern sicher?

[Juergen Nickelsen]

"Maarten Wiltink" <maa...@kittensandcats.net> writes:

> There's a very nice, very pink full tower in a prominent place
> in our living room. It was born beige, but that's nothing a
> pot of paint won't cure.
>
> My dad was horrified. That was just a bonus.

At WeHostMillions one colleague had a tendency to post links with very
pink content to the internal IRC channel. No, not *that* pink, think
pink ponies etc.

Once, when he was on vacation, one other colleague organzied a
collection; we got enough money together, so he bought a pink PC case
for the existing hardware, pink speakers, a pink keyboard, and a pink
mouse, as well as a pink soft drink (yes, such a thing exists) and some
pink plush strips for the monitor bezels.

When the formerly mentioned colleague came back, he found his desk...
*changed*. He took it with good humour and continued to use the pink
stuff.

(That was the same one who, having come back from an earlier vacation,
during which other colleagues had engaged in a little hardware and
software side project, noticed a few days later a Nagios alert triggered
*by his leg wibbling*. Took him a few minutes until he could speak a
coherent sentence again other then "You are all crazy! You are all
crazy! [...]".)

--
Don't talk. Just drink. -- Penny

[Niklas Karlsson]

On 2013-12-12, Lawns 'R' Us <nob...@nowhere.example.com> wrote:
> I Feel Your Pain.
> V Srry Lbhe Cnva.
^^^^ Nice rotism!
Niklas
--
All software sucks. Everybody is considered a jerk by somebody. The sun
rises, the sun sets, the Sun crashes, lusers are LARTed, BOFHs get drunk.
It is the way of things. -- sco...@summit.bor.ohio.gov (Steve Conley)

[Wojciech Derechowski]

On Tue, 17 Dec 2013 15:23:03 +0000, Niklas Karlsson wrote:
> On 2013-12-12, Lawns 'R' Us <nob...@nowhere.example.com> wrote:
>> I Feel Your Pain.
>> V Srry Lbhe Cnva.
> ^^^^ Nice rotism!

Visst.

[Jim]

On 2013-12-19, E.P.Sporgersi <E.P.Sporgersi> wrote:
> On Sun, 17 Nov 2013 22:10:38 +0000, Roger Bell_West wrote:
>
>> Modern corporate practice seems to tend towards treating employees as
>> interchangeable parts,
>
> The word literally used by Boss^2 is "fungible".

Modern businesses seem to have forgotten (or more likely conveniently
ignore) that 'loyalty' is supposed to extend in both directions.

Jim
--
Michael Garibaldi: "What are you so nervous about? We went up against the
entire Earth Alliance, and two carrier groups."
Security Guard #2: "Yeah, but this is the post office. This could get us
in real trouble." Twitter:@GreyAreaUK

[Peter Corlett]

Jim <j...@magrathea.plus.com> wrote:
> On 2013-12-19, E.P.Sporgersi <E.P.Sporgersi> wrote:
>> On Sun, 17 Nov 2013 22:10:38 +0000, Roger Bell_West wrote:
>>> Modern corporate practice seems to tend towards treating employees
>>> as interchangeable parts,
>> The word literally used by Boss^2 is "fungible".

It's one of my favourite words because it aptly captures the disdain for the
items being described as such. You've got to admire said boss's frankness in
admitting this.

> Modern businesses seem to have forgotten (or more likely conveniently
> ignore) that 'loyalty' is supposed to extend in both directions.

I fell into contracting because permanent roles either treated me like dirt or
tried to shuffle me into manglement[1]. It turns out that bosses tend to
continue to treat contractors as employees instead of it being a B2B
supplier-customer relationship. When I declined to renew a contract with one
that had negotiated a low rate, was a persistent late payer[0], and the work
was becoming ever-more unpleasant, he actually had the nerve to describe it as
"blackmail".


[0] Come to think of it, there's still an outstanding invoice.

[1] I'm starting to come round to the idea. Not because I aspire to the role,
but merely the usual resigned sysadmin sigh and urge to take over and do
the job properly when watching it being done incompetently or not at all.

[Lawns 'R' Us]

On 2013-12-20, Peter Corlett <ab...@mooli.org.uk> wrote:
> When I declined to renew a contract with one
> that had negotiated a low rate, was a persistent late payer[0], and the work
> was becoming ever-more unpleasant, he actually had the nerve to describe it as
> "blackmail".

Oh, you've contracted to VOZ as well, have you?

[Andrew]

On Fri, 20 Dec 2013 11:04:06 +0000, Peter Corlett wrote:

> It turns out that bosses
> tend to continue to treat contractors as employees instead of it being a
> B2B supplier-customer relationship.

Most of the "contract" positions I've seen or been exposed to seem to
really be "you're an employee but we don't want to provide you with a
health plan, pay employer-share SS taxes, or deal with paperwork if we
want to fire you[0], so we're just going to class you differently."

I worked such a position for two or three years before being hired
properly by the client. I never saw my ostensible employers; my only
contact with them was faxing them timesheets.


[0] That last might even be legitimate at some places. My partner has
difficulty getting rid of people who are an active drain on her
department. HR won't let her fire anyone without a paper trail a mile
long.

--
Andrew

IT is a filter. It accepts masochists on stdin and emits misanthropes on
stdout.

[Zebee Johnstone]

In alt.sysadmin.recovery on Sat, 18 Jan 2014 03:38:54 +0000 (UTC)

Andrew <and...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> On Fri, 20 Dec 2013 11:04:06 +0000, Peter Corlett wrote:
>
>> It turns out that bosses
>> tend to continue to treat contractors as employees instead of it being a
>> B2B supplier-customer relationship.
>
> Most of the "contract" positions I've seen or been exposed to seem to
> really be "you're an employee but we don't want to provide you with a
> health plan, pay employer-share SS taxes, or deal with paperwork if we
> want to fire you[0], so we're just going to class you differently."

In Oz there are rules about how long you are able to employ someone
continously as contract or casual before they are considered an
employee.

Mate of mine was casual for years then his employer got a Visit from
the tax dept. He was hired because he was too important to lose, the
whole casual thing was in fact a dodge to avoid tax and other
payments.

Where I work now there is a phenomenon known as the Revolving Door.

Contractors come in, work in one area for their 2 years, go away and
either come back after the mandated separation (which I think is 2
years) or earlier for a different department with a different job
title.

(Otherwise known as the Hotel California....)

It's quite usual to come in to work and see someone back for their 3rd
or 4th go-round.

When the GFC happened they gave the best ones a "become permanent or
go away" choice. Permies are cheaper than contractors and because
work was very scarce most of them took the job and the associated pay
cut.

Then when things picked up most of 'em scarpered to new contracts.
Only to find themselves back in the revolving door!

Zebee

[Garrett Wollman]

In article <slrnldk0qr....@gmail.com>,

Zebee Johnstone <zeb...@gmail.com> wrote:

>In Oz there are rules about how long you are able to employ someone
>continously as contract or casual before they are considered an
>employee.

I am pretty sure the same is true of the US, but of course the rules
are squidgier and I think you end up having to go to court (to sue for
back wages or misappropriated taxes). For those officially working
for an agency, the rules take into consideration the level of
supervision offered by the nominal employer. In my place we use temps
mainly for support staff (i.e., what used to be called secretaries),
and they're limited to six months -- it's actually exceedingly
disadvantageous for the researchers to treat them like employees,
because of the way employee pay and fringes are accounted for here.
The typical situation is that they'll use a temp to cover for a
position while they run the the full hiring process.

-GAWollman
--
Garrett A. Wollman | What intellectual phenomenon can be older, or more oft
wol...@bimajority.org| repeated, than the story of a large research program
Opinions not shared by| that impaled itself upon a false central assumption
my employers. | accepted by all practitioners? - S.J. Gould, 1993

[Lawns 'R' Us]

On 2014-01-18, Zebee Johnstone <zeb...@gmail.com> wrote:
> In Oz there are rules about how long you are able to employ someone
> continously as contract or casual before they are considered an
> employee.

It is also not uncommon for some larger companies to do the "six month
contract to permanent" option - ie, take somebody in for a six month
contract; if their work is good enough, and they fit in, give them a
permanent position. That makes booting out somebody who doesn't suit
(for whatever reason) a lot easier.

[Maarten Wiltink]

"Zebee Johnstone" <zeb...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:slrnldk0qr....@gmail.com...

> In alt.sysadmin.recovery on Sat, 18 Jan 2014 03:38:54 +0000 (UTC)
> Andrew <and...@invalid.invalid> wrote:

>> Most of the "contract" positions I've seen or been exposed to seem to
>> really be "you're an employee but we don't want to provide you with a
>> health plan, pay employer-share SS taxes, or deal with paperwork if we
>> want to fire you[0], so we're just going to class you differently."
>
> In Oz there are rules about how long you are able to employ someone
> continously as contract or casual before they are considered an
> employee.

In the Netherlands, there are rules about exclusivity. If you're
working only one project on an apparently permanent basis, you must
be an employee.

The obvious solution for the company is the usual on-off scheme, with
(I think) only three months off between contracts. Or the company
splits off a separate tentacle so the next contract isn't with the
same entity.

But contractor rates here are such that they might actually cover
employer taxes, something resembling social security and even dead
time between projects. I'd like to know how many contractors really
do spend the excess on that.

Tebrgwrf,
Maarten Wiltink

[TimC]

On 2014-01-18, Zebee Johnstone (aka Bruce)
was almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea:

> In alt.sysadmin.recovery on Sat, 18 Jan 2014 03:38:54 +0000 (UTC)
> Andrew <and...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>> On Fri, 20 Dec 2013 11:04:06 +0000, Peter Corlett wrote:
>>
>>> It turns out that bosses
>>> tend to continue to treat contractors as employees instead of it being a
>>> B2B supplier-customer relationship.
>>
>> Most of the "contract" positions I've seen or been exposed to seem to
>> really be "you're an employee but we don't want to provide you with a
>> health plan, pay employer-share SS taxes, or deal with paperwork if we
>> want to fire you[0], so we're just going to class you differently."
>
> In Oz there are rules about how long you are able to employ someone
> continously as contract or casual before they are considered an
> employee.

There are? We recently let go of a contractor who had been having his
contract renewed yearly for 10 years now. One of the few useful guys
around too.

Then again, my boss's position hasn't been filled permanently in over
4 years (and I think the guy who's been there for 2 years now is just
about to burn out if he hasn't already done so. Hasn't been in all
this month yet), and I've been acting in my position for about 2 years
now (although I'm currently back at my old level, but still doing on
call stuff. I'll give them a couple of weeks to sort themselves out
before I start refusing that again).

When I redid the APS code of conduct exam a few months ago, I laughed
when I came across the question dealing with temporary assigned
duties, and whether you need to advertise a position. The $BUREAU
break every official guideline in the book, but since I needed to pass
the quiz, I answered the question how they expected me to answer it,
rather than how it actually is.

--
Thus sprach TimC
Failure is not an option. It comes bundled with your Microsoft product.
-- Ferenc Mantfeld

[Juergen Nickelsen]

Lawns 'R' Us <nob...@nowhere.example.com> writes:

> It is also not uncommon for some larger companies to do the "six month
> contract to permanent" option - ie, take somebody in for a six month
> contract; if their work is good enough, and they fit in, give them a
> permanent position. That makes booting out somebody who doesn't suit
> (for whatever reason) a lot easier.

Here (.de) we have a six-month period before legal dismissal
protection kicks in. During these six months you can easily get rid
of an employee who doesn't meet expectations or doesn't fit in.


But then there are those bosses who haven't said a thing for six
months and on the last day say "we don't like what you did, so
you're fired", while the employee rightfully "I could have done what
you want if you had told me", and HR says "if we don't fire them
now, they have dismissal protection", so the employee gets fired
because they didn't have the *opportunity* to prove themselves. I
have seen this in cases.

Can be fixed by mandating a feedback talk between boss and employee
after three months latest.


And then there are those bosses who are unhappy with an employees
performance, but notice too late, and HR says "couldn't have fscking
told us before six months were over?", and the employee keeps his
job, so the boss stays unhappy, and the employee is unhappy because
they cannot do the job well and because the boss is unhappy. I have
seen cases of this, too.

Can be fixed by the HR explicitly asking the before the end of the
six months if the boss wants to keep that person.


Kudos to the company where I have seen these cases -- they
implemented both fixes.


--
Var48657=Nur GIF-, png-, Jpg- und JPEG-Bilder können Antriebskraft. Überprüfen Sie bitte das Bild, das Sie vorgewählt haben.

[Mark Huizer]

The wise Juergen Nickelsen enlightened me with:

> Lawns 'R' Us <nob...@nowhere.example.com> writes:
>
>> It is also not uncommon for some larger companies to do the "six month
>> contract to permanent" option - ie, take somebody in for a six month
>> contract; if their work is good enough, and they fit in, give them a
>> permanent position. That makes booting out somebody who doesn't suit
>> (for whatever reason) a lot easier.
>
> Here (.de) we have a six-month period before legal dismissal
> protection kicks in. During these six months you can easily get rid
> of an employee who doesn't meet expectations or doesn't fit in.
>

Sounds like a nice alternative to the system here. Where you can give
someone 3 contracts of (if still correct) in total 3 years (maybe 1.5 by now?)
and then you need to give a permanent contract.

Which in practice means you will get 3 contracts and then you are let
off with the remark "you were a wonderful worker, we would love to give
you a contract in 6 months when we can start the 3 temp contracts again"

Mark