Is this group deader'n dogshit?

[Dan Bissonnette]

Sure seems so.

Scary.Devil.Monastery.

Not.

Empty.Devil.Monastery.


--
"Look, I came here for an argument ..."
"Oh I'm sorry, but this is abuse."

[Niklas Karlsson]

On 2014-04-13, Dan Bissonnette <dangbis...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Sure seems so.
>
> Scary.Devil.Monastery.
>
> Not.
>
> Empty.Devil.Monastery.

Just about. Some of us are still alive, but there's not much to post
about.

Niklas
--
I have always wished that my computer would be as easy to use as my
telephone. My wish has come true. I no longer know how to use my telephone.
-- Bjarne Stroustrup

[Paul Tomblin]

In a previous article, Dan Bissonnette <dangbis...@gmail.com> said:
>Sure seems so.
>
>Scary.Devil.Monastery.
>
>Not.
>
>Empty.Devil.Monastery.

I see over 60 posts in the last 30 days. That's not huge, but it's better than
90% of the groups in Usenet or alt-net.


--
Paul Tomblin <ptom...@xcski.com> http://blog.xcski.com/
It seems that we were audited recently, and the auditors found a certain
'f' word in the comments of a configuration file, and deemed that this
is a 'security risk'. -- Paul Fenwick

[ppint. at pplay]

- hi; dangbis...@gmail.com "Dan Bissonnette" opined:
>
>Sure seems so.

- "our day will come" (- [a])
>
>Scary.Devil.Monastery.
>
>Not.
>
>Empty.Devil.Monastery.

- whore you tryin ter buffallette ?

- love (emmltk), ppint.

[a] - sharon tandy, backed by vanilla fudge iiuc

pp.s. - not all lulls're lulls; every now & then, one may be a grue.

[drop the "v", and change the "f" to a "g", to email or cc.]
--
Microsoft announced recently that it had lost the source code to MS-DOS
- Peter Jackson, PC Magazine December 1998 [p. 29]

[Maarten Wiltink]

"Niklas Karlsson" <ank...@yahoo.se> wrote in message
news:lie693$p5d$1...@parhelion.firedrake.org...

> On 2014-04-13, Dan Bissonnette <dangbis...@gmail.com> wrote:

>> Sure seems so.

Are you responding to your subject line now?

>> Scary.Devil.Monastery.
>>
>> Not.
>>
>> Empty.Devil.Monastery.
>
> Just about. Some of us are still alive, but there's not much to post
> about.

No news is good news. Right?

Like my job. No job is a good job. On the good side: for the first time
in my life, I'm getting severance pay.

Tebrgwrf,
Maarten Wiltink

[Niklas Karlsson]

On 2014-04-14, Maarten Wiltink <maa...@kittensandcats.net> wrote:
> Like my job. No job is a good job. On the good side: for the first time
> in my life, I'm getting severance pay.

Congratulations on your recovery; may it be long enough for complete
recovery, but short enough not to give rise to financial difficulties.

I managed to screw myself out of severance pay by pulling the
yellow/black striped handle just a little too soon, a couple of orks
ago. Oh well, not sure it would've been worth the mental torture of
sticking around for another few months; the sigmonster seems to know
exactly what I went through.

Niklas
--
A few minutes ago I attempted to give a flying fsck, but the best I
could do was to watch it skitter across the floor. -- Anthony de Boer

[Lawns 'R' Us]

On 2014-04-13, Niklas Karlsson <ank...@yahoo.se> wrote:
> Just about. Some of us are still alive, but there's not much to post
> about.

Pretty much. I mean, let's be honest here: who here has _not_ heard
the story of the Aches swerver that was rebooted, only for it to be
discovered that some software was downgraded to a version that goes
out of support in less than two weeks for no apparent reason? "Just a
power supply swap and reboot", my arse. Even more fun? The sysadmins
have been ducking the question as to what exactly happened. (Guess
where said "sysadmins" happen to be. Go on. Have a guess. I will be
very surprised if the correct answer is not the second or third unique
guess.)

Oh well. I go on a three and a half week vacation, starting tomorrow,
so it will Officially be Not My Problem in a shade under ten hours.
(And even if it's not Official, the fact that my mobile will not be
contactable in around 28 hours means that it might as well be.)

On a _completely_ unrelated note, I would be more than happy to meet
up soon with any monks in the fair cities of Christchurch, Queenstown,
Dunedin, Wellington, Palmerston North, Rotorua, Tauranga, Auckland, or
pretty much anywhere in between ...

[Jim]

On Mon, 14 Apr 2014 09:55:58 +0200, "Maarten Wiltink"
<maa...@kittensandcats.net> wrote:


>No news is good news. Right?
>
>Like my job. No job is a good job. On the good side: for the first time
>in my life, I'm getting severance pay.

Is there something going around? I just got laid off for the first time
since I got out of school in 1975. Not overly happy with the thought of
starting a job search at this point in my life. Too young to retire, so
I guess I have to. On the plus side I also get severance pay.

Jim

[Gallian]

Jim <J...@nowhere.invalid> writes:

> On Mon, 14 Apr 2014 09:55:58 +0200, "Maarten Wiltink"
> <maa...@kittensandcats.net> wrote:
>
>
>>No news is good news. Right?
>>
>>Like my job. No job is a good job. On the good side: for the first time
>>in my life, I'm getting severance pay.
>
> Is there something going around? I just got laid off for the first time
> since I got out of school in 1975.

Maybe I started something? I got laid off the previous december (2012),
after strongly miscalculating how much our then-current manager was
siding with the Idiot Consultants.

Of course, it only took until February to get a new job. I now do
virtual hosting for a small company. Slightly too small for our current
client load that is. Plus lots of legacy cruft to work through.

Most of the time I'm too damn tired to rant here. And when I do feel
like ranting it's about the horrid socio-political landscape down here.

Mart

[Maarten Wiltink]

"Gallian" <gal...@linuxmail.org> wrote in message
news:86sipfj...@bors.avalon.lan...

> [...] I got laid off the previous december (2012),

> after strongly miscalculating how much our then-current manager was
> siding with the Idiot Consultants.

Let me guess. You underestimated it.

Our other major customer (the one that's going to get our _other_
programmer fired by withdrawing all business from us[0]) cleaned
house and carted in an interim manager, who then carted in a bunch
of cronies. And then we got a mail about how 'our director has taken
the decision to ...' cut short the software selection project we were
involved in, and cart in more cronyware.

This mail was sent to a surprising number of people. Still, he seems
to be getting away with it. For now.


[...]

> Most of the time I'm too damn tired to rant here. And when I do feel
> like ranting it's about the horrid socio-political landscape down here.

He's doing well. Any day now when the revolution comes he's going to
need only three feet of wall. And then we won't have anyone left to be
allowed to blame the recession on, and it'll get _really_ ugly.

Tebrgwrf,
Maarten Wiltink

[0] You didn't get this from me. People are going to claim being
_surprised_ when that happens, for cring[1] out loud.
[1] That's a typo. A great typo, if I say so myself.

[BB]

There's still a few lurkers about the place, never fear.

[Gallian]

"Maarten Wiltink" <maa...@kittensandcats.net> writes:

> "Gallian" <gal...@linuxmail.org> wrote in message
> news:86sipfj...@bors.avalon.lan...
>
>> [...] I got laid off the previous december (2012), after strongly
>> miscalculating how much our then-current manager was siding with the
>> Idiot Consultants.
>
> Let me guess. You underestimated it.
>

Oh hell yeah I did. Now I understand why he was so reluctant to
arbitrate our conflicts. I *thought* it was the fairly typical Dutch
managerial style of conflict avoidance at all costs (especially given
his southern background), but as it turns out that was just a ploy to
aggravate the disagreements to the point they could force me to take a
severance and leave.

Mart

[G. Paul Ziemba]

Regarding the subject line, I recall a biology science kit I had
as a kid in the early 1970's for culturing various organisms in petri
dishes from common sources. I think the first experiment was to see
what grew on tomato soup (lovely green mold!).

One of the later experiments involved collecting samples of dog
poop, mixing with water, and spreading on agar to grow E. coli.
I can say with some certainty, therefore, that dogshit is *not*
dead.

I'm currently lusting after one of these:
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1742632993/heirloom-chemistry-set

My early interest in chemistry (age 11 or so) led to various
home experimentation and school pursuits. Now that I have an
education and adult resources, it would be fun to get back into it.
--
G. Paul Ziemba
FreeBSD unix:
10:01AM up 79 days, 11 hrs, 22 users, load averages: 1.56, 1.59, 1.61

[mrob...@att.net]

G. Paul Ziemba <paul+...@w6yx.stanford.edu> wrote:
> One of the later experiments involved collecting samples of dog poop,
> mixing with water, and spreading on agar to grow E. coli. I can say
> with some certainty, therefore, that dogshit is *not* dead.

In high school I got sick and there was a suspicion of strep throat.
The nurse swabbed my throat and cultured it; a few minutes later she
told me that no, I didn't have it. In biology class we had just learned
about stains and cultures and agar and things like that, and I asked to
see the dish, just out of curiosity. Apparently, letting the patient
see the results of tests peformed on his own body was Not Our Policy,
but she finally showed it to me.

> I'm currently lusting after one of these:
> https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1742632993/heirloom-chemistry-set

Hmmm... that place is right here in town, more or less. Let me know if
you need a scouting report.

Matt Roberds

[Zebee Johnstone]

In alt.sysadmin.recovery on Tue, 15 Apr 2014 19:21:12 +0000 (UTC)
mrob...@att.net <mrob...@att.net> wrote:
> I *did* have a job interview recently that was kind of interesting. The
> first couple of hours were absolutely standard - talk about resume, talk
> to potential boss, talk to potential co-worker, talk to HR person. Then
> I got something I had never seen before, in probably a couple of dozen
> interviews over nearly two decades: a handwriting test. I was given a
> form and asked to write at least 10 lines in my own handwriting
> (cursive) on a given topic. Since I quit writing in cursive as soon as
> I could type, it wasn't pretty. I have no idea how well I did; online
> research suggests that the test is worthless, yet not discriminatory
> enough to be outlawed for HR purposes.

Bizarre.

I just did a quick test. On a bit of paper I'd scribbled a packing
list on the previous night.

Answer is I quickly discover that if I slow a bit and write as Mrs
Greenhalgh tried to teach me in grade 4 that it's not as bad as me
just noting things down.

But I have to do the proper cursive, or as close as I can, because
otherwise it gets straggly and allover the place quite quickly.

It's still not great but it is legible and sort of neat.

I have no idea what's being taught these days, I wonder how old you
have to be to recognise the "s". I see in my scribbled notes that I
still use it in some cases. I use the capital Z in my signature again
I wonder how many people realise that's what it is.

I'm a bit spooked by the Guardian article which includes the journo's
reaction to getting their handwriting analysed. Does sound a bit like
a halfway decent astrologer's cold reading to be honest.

I suppose the journo wasn't going to publically list any bad things
the analyst found but there was definitely a touch of "things people
like to be told about themselves" in it.

I do wonder if, given the two samples of writing on the page, the
analyst could tell they were the same person, and if the analysis
would be different.

Ain't gonna cough up cash to find out.

Zebee

[Peter H. Coffin]

On Tue, 15 Apr 2014 20:07:13 +0000 (UTC), Zebee Johnstone wrote:
> I have no idea what's being taught these days, I wonder how old you
> have to be to recognise the "s". I see in my scribbled notes that I
> still use it in some cases. I use the capital Z in my signature again
> I wonder how many people realise that's what it is.

It's being dropped in a lot of places .us ...

Seriously, I blame Steve Jobs for this. If John Sculley had been in
charge when the iPhone came out, kids these days would have beautiful
penmanship and know three kinds of shorthand.

--
63. Bulk trash will be disposed of in incinerators, not compactors. And
they will be kept hot, with none of that nonsense about flames
going through accessible tunnels at predictable intervals.
--Peter Anspach's list of things to do as an Evil Overlord

[Chris King]

On 15/04/2014 21:07, Zebee Johnstone wrote:
> Bizarre.
>
> I just did a quick test. On a bit of paper I'd scribbled a packing
> list on the previous night.
>
> Answer is I quickly discover that if I slow a bit and write as Mrs
> Greenhalgh tried to teach me in grade 4 that it's not as bad as me
> just noting things down.
>
> But I have to do the proper cursive, or as close as I can, because
> otherwise it gets straggly and allover the place quite quickly.
>
> It's still not great but it is legible and sort of neat.

My careers teacher told me I should have been a doctor, on the basis
that my handwriting was so bad it deserved to poison at least one person
in my lifetime. It hasn't improved with age.

> I have no idea what's being taught these days, I wonder how old you
> have to be to recognise the "s". I see in my scribbled notes that I
> still use it in some cases. I use the capital Z in my signature again
> I wonder how many people realise that's what it is.

They teach kids to write ? Judging from the CV's I see these days, you
could have fooled me. MS Comic Sans would look more professional [1] in
some cases, and if I had created similar monstrosities, said careers
teacher would have ripped it up in front of me.

No, scratch that. He would have made ME rip it up in front of him, and
eat the pieces.

Chris

[1] A few years back $JOB[-1] wanted to hire me back as a conslutant
to migrate off $JOB[-1]'s legacy VMS kit, and wrote to $JOB[0]
officially requesting assistance. Boss-squared wanders in with the
letter, asking me if this was some sort of sick joke - one look at
the font, and I said "Sadly, this is genuine, the VC's PA uses Comic
Sans like normal people use Times Roman or Arial".

--
Chris King
(firstname@domain to reply by e-mail - or your message gets binned)

[Wojciech Derechowski]

On Tue, 15 Apr 2014 20:51:40 +0000, Roger Bell_West wrote:

> On 2014-04-15, Zebee Johnstone wrote:
>>I'm a bit spooked by the Guardian article which includes the journo's
>>reaction to getting their handwriting analysed. Does sound a bit like
>>a halfway decent astrologer's cold reading to be honest.
>

> It's pretty much the same methodology. If I were at a job interview
> with a company that made it clear it was going to employ a
> graphologist, I'd have to be fairly desperate not to walk out on the
> spot.

Yes, it depends on the money. I'd be happy to answer questions such as is
the 3599 prime, or what is the shortest distance the spider can take to
reach the fly given the coordinates, if the money is good, even though the
methodology is the same.

--
WD

Who is Entscheidungs and what is his problem?

[TimC]

On 2014-04-15, Gallian (aka Bruce)
was almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea:

Maybe we need to talk about whisky like back in the good ole days?

I bought a couple of 225L barrels of whisky. Well, spirit, to be
technical. It will be whisky in a few years. First dividend of that
investment (a bottle they prepared earlier) arrived in the mail a
couple of days ago, just in time for my birthday.

Bhe $BEXCYNPR ner va gur zvqqyr bs n erbetnavfngvba. Gelvat gb
pbafbyvqngr nyy gur qvssrerag $HAVK tebhcf fpnggrerq nebhaq gur
betnavfngvba. V'z gur bayl crefba tbvat sebz gur byq $YVAHK tebhc gb
gur arj $YVAHK tebhc. Nyy gur bguref jrera'g ba yrnir ng gur gvzr
gung gur arj znantre jnf naabhaprq, naq whzcrq fuvc gb gur arj $IZ
tebhc rira gubhtu zbfg bs gurz jbhyq unir cersreerq gb or va gur arj
$YVAHK tebhc. Fb V trg gb grnpu nyy gur arj obqf nobhg nyy gur
flfgrzf V'yy or qenttvat bire, naq gur 2 bgure tebhcf pbzvat va trg gb
grnpu zr nobhg nyy gurve flfgrzf. Retb, V abj jbex gur jbex bs 3
crbcyr, ohg trg gb pbagvahr gb trg cnvq gur cnl bs whfg gur bar.
Jr'er nyfb va n uvevat serrmr (ohg gung'f BX vs lbh'er crefbany
sevraqf jvgu pbafyhgnagf), fb zl cnl jvyy va snpg or qebccvat onpx
jura zl pheerag npgvat crevbq svavfurf. Gurl zvtug jryy svaq gung V
tb onpx gb ershfvat gb or ba pnyy gura gubhtu, fb gung funyy or
vagrerfgvat, fvapr jr'er gur bayl barf jvgu png1 bapnyy flfgrzf, naq
V'z gur bayl bar va gur arj tebhc jvgu xabjyrqtr ba gubfr flfgrzf.

So yes, scotch^Wtas is good.

--
Thus sprach TimC
Being certified means I can legally be employed as a chain-sawyer. That means
that now the company can send me after spammers without running afoul of
occupational health and safety regulations. -- Anthony de Boer in ASR

[David DeLaney]

On 2014-04-15, mrob...@att.net <mrob...@att.net> wrote:
> I was given a
> form and asked to write at least 10 lines in my own handwriting
> (cursive) on a given topic.

I wonder if a couple verses of Jabberwocky would work.

Oh, do you mean on a topic you were given? Well, that can usually be rooted
and redirected pretty quickly also...

Dave
--
\/David DeLaney posting thru EarthLink - "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
http://www.vic.com/~dbd/ - net.legends FAQ & Magic / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.

[Steve VanDevender]

mrob...@att.net writes:

> I *did* have a job interview recently that was kind of interesting. The
> first couple of hours were absolutely standard - talk about resume, talk
> to potential boss, talk to potential co-worker, talk to HR person. Then
> I got something I had never seen before, in probably a couple of dozen

> interviews over nearly two decades: a handwriting test. I was given a

> form and asked to write at least 10 lines in my own handwriting

> (cursive) on a given topic. Since I quit writing in cursive as soon as
> I could type, it wasn't pretty. I have no idea how well I did; online
> research suggests that the test is worthless, yet not discriminatory
> enough to be outlawed for HR purposes.

> The leading theory is that employers prefer younger persons because they
> can pay them less.

Obviously if you can write in cursive at all you must be one of those
old people, since they barely teach cursive handwriting any more and no
one practices it since even kids type their writing into computers now.
They can't get away with "we aren't hiring you because you're old" but
think they can get away with "the graphologist didn't like your
handwriting."

--
Steve VanDevender "I ride the big iron" http://hexadecimal.uoregon.edu/
ste...@hexadecimal.uoregon.edu PGP keyprint 4AD7AF61F0B9DE87 522902969C0A7EE8
Little things break, circuitry burns / Time flies while my little world turns
Every day comes, every day goes / 100 years and nobody shows -- Happy Rhodes

[Maarten Wiltink]

"Wojciech Derechowski" <wdd...@um5000.mystora.com> wrote in message
news:slrnlkrpf9...@um5000.mystora.com...

There is also a different methodology that quickly spots 3599 as being
60 squared minus one squared, and therefore having at least two prime
factors.

Or that analytical skills, or spatial sense, or even neatness and
manual dexterity, are good things in applicants.

Tebrgwrf,
Maarten Wiltink

[Maarten Wiltink]

"G. Paul Ziemba" <paul+...@w6yx.stanford.edu> wrote in message
news:lijos4$a0s$1...@usenet.ziemba.us...

[...]

> I'm currently lusting after one of these:
> https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1742632993/heirloom-chemistry-set

That's _beautiful_.

> My early interest in chemistry (age 11 or so) led to various
> home experimentation and school pursuits. Now that I have an
> education and adult resources, it would be fun to get back into it.

I've started making soap last year and am now, slowly, collecting
potash to try using in lieu of the commercial drain cleaner. There's
a glass jar on top of a kitchen cupboard (next to the curing soap) that
now holds a few grams of dry residue from the lovely bright-yellow
solution you get from draining and filtering wood ashes. Preparing
the solution is a half-an-hour job. Boiling off the water takes weeks
and lots of tea lights.

Then, I need to know how much of it to use per gram of fat. The current
plan is to ask my old high school teacher to determine that as a class
project.

Tebrgwrf,
Maarten Wiltink

[Firesong]

On Wed, 16 Apr 2014 01:03:18 +0100, Chris King <ne...@csking.co.uk>
wrote:

>
>[1] A few years back $JOB[-1] wanted to hire me back as a conslutant
> to migrate off $JOB[-1]'s legacy VMS kit, and wrote to $JOB[0]
> officially requesting assistance. Boss-squared wanders in with the
> letter, asking me if this was some sort of sick joke - one look at
> the font, and I said "Sadly, this is genuine, the VC's PA uses Comic
> Sans like normal people use Times Roman or Arial".

I have had a major complaint from one of the Lusers at one of our
customers, that she cannot send out the marketing quotations in Comic
Sans "because it's friendlier".
Sheesh.

Firesong

[ppint. at pplay]

- hi; maa...@kittensandcats.net "Maarten Wiltink" revealed

> "G. Paul Ziemba" <paul+...@w6yx.stanford.edu> wrote in message

>[...]

>> My early interest in chemistry (age 11 or so) led to various
>> home experimentation and school pursuits. Now that I have an
>> education and adult resources, it would be fun to get back into it.
>
>I've started making soap last year and am now, slowly, collecting
>potash to try using in lieu of the commercial drain cleaner. There's
>a glass jar on top of a kitchen cupboard (next to the curing soap) that
>now holds a few grams of dry residue from the lovely bright-yellow
>solution you get from draining and filtering wood ashes. Preparing
>the solution is a half-an-hour job. Boiling off the water takes weeks
>and lots of tea lights.
>
>Then, I need to know how much of it to use per gram of fat. The current
>plan is to ask my old high school teacher to determine that as a class
>project.

- s/he/it hates their current class that much? without exception?

- well, at least they know enough to not make buck ruxton's mistake.

- love, a ppint. lauding the efficacy of the well-chosen object lesson

[drop the "v", and change the "f" to a "g", to email or cc.]
--

"gregor asks - requests and requires, no less! - you to give me
the lecture you gave him on honor versus reputation."
- miles to his father, aral vorkosigan
- _A Diplomatic Campaign_ - lois mcmaster bujold

[Maarten Wiltink]

"Roger Bell_West" <roger+a...@nospam.firedrake.org> wrote in message
news:20140416125914....@firedrake.org...

> On 2014-04-16, "ppint. at pplay" wrote:

>> - well, at least they know enough to not make buck ruxton's mistake.
>

> Which _one_? Amateurs, I don't know... you'd think he'd never murdered
> two women before.
>
> You owe the Oracle a police horse-trough.

The pigs ate all the horses.

Tebrgwrf,
Maarten Wiltink

[mrob...@att.net]

TimC <tcon...@rather.puzzling.no-spam-accepted-here.org> wrote:
> I bought a couple of 225L barrels of whisky. Well, spirit, to be
> technical. It will be whisky in a few years.

Assuming 40% abv, that's 600 man-days of drunkenness. Why?

> Retb, V abj jbex gur jbex bs 3 crbcyr, ohg trg gb pbagvahr gb trg cnvq
> gur cnl bs whfg gur bar.

Oh, that's why.

Matt Roberds

[mrob...@att.net]

David DeLaney <davidd...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> On 2014-04-15, mrob...@att.net <mrob...@att.net> wrote:
>> I was given a form and asked to write at least 10 lines in my own
>> handwriting (cursive) on a given topic.
>
> I wonder if a couple verses of Jabberwocky would work.

I don't remember enough of that correctly. I *could* lay some song
lyrics on them, though. Next time.

> Oh, do you mean on a topic you were given?

Yes. "Write at least 10 lines describing your ideal work environment."

Matt Roberds

[David Taylor]

On 2014-04-16, mrob...@att.net <mrob...@att.net> wrote:

> Roger Bell_West <roger+a...@nospam.firedrake.org> wrote:
>> On 2014-04-15, Zebee Johnstone wrote:

>>> I'm a bit spooked by the Guardian article which includes the journo's
>>> reaction to getting their handwriting analysed. Does sound a bit
>>> like a halfway decent astrologer's cold reading to be honest.
>

> Yeah. I found one citation that graphology could determine the gender
> of the writer correctly about 70% of the time, but that was about it.

I can do substantially better than that by just looking at the writer...

--
David Taylor

[David Scheidt]

mrob...@att.net wrote:
:Roger Bell_West <roger+a...@nospam.firedrake.org> wrote:
:> On 2014-04-15, Zebee Johnstone wrote:

:>> I'm a bit spooked by the Guardian article which includes the journo's

:>> reaction to getting their handwriting analysed. Does sound a bit
:>> like a halfway decent astrologer's cold reading to be honest.

:Yeah. I found one citation that graphology could determine the gender

:of the writer correctly about 70% of the time, but that was about it.

:There is also forensic graphology, which answers simpler questions like
:"did this person write this note or not". That is apparently acceptable
:in court.

only because lots of crap is acceptable in court. The accuracy is
okay if the alternatives are "did X write this?" and "did not X write
this?". If they're "Did X write this?" or "Did Y write this to look
like X wrote this, where Y had access to sample writing?" it's crap.



--
sig 66

[Alexander Schreiber]

mrob...@att.net <mrob...@att.net> wrote:
>
> I *did* have a job interview recently that was kind of interesting. The
> first couple of hours were absolutely standard - talk about resume, talk
> to potential boss, talk to potential co-worker, talk to HR person. Then
> I got something I had never seen before, in probably a couple of dozen
> interviews over nearly two decades: a handwriting test.

Now that would ring alarm bells with me: any company that uses this kind
of pseudoscientifc bullshit (apparently it is supposed to reveal clues
about your character, attitudes and such) as part of the hiring process
would be highly suspect. They probably have an Oujia board in the HR
department and the boss talks with his deceased family members for business
advice.

Kind regards,
Alex.
--
"Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls and
looks like work." -- Thomas A. Edison

[Alexander Schreiber]

mrob...@att.net <mrob...@att.net> wrote:
>
> I have no idea about the money as we didn't get that far. Gur znva
> guvat V yvxr nobhg guvf cbgragvny rzcyblre vf gung gurl ner 2 zvyrf
> sebz zl ubhfr. Most of the other potential employment involves 25 to 30
> miles of Interstate highway, twice a day. Some of it has been a

Ok, a longer commute is annoying.

> construction zone since 2009 and half of the drivers on it got their
> license at 14 with no test.

That just adds to the annoyance.

> The fact that a sniper has set up shop
> lately at one interchange just adds to the fun.

Wait. The fuck? This is where, CONUS or Afghanistan?

[mrob...@att.net]

Alexander Schreiber <a...@usenet.thangorodrim.de> wrote:

> mrob...@att.net <mrob...@att.net> wrote:
>
>> The fact that a sniper has set up shop lately at one interchange just
>> adds to the fun.
>
> Wait. The fuck? This is where, CONUS or Afghanistan?

CONUS. Everything's up to date in Kansas City. Although "sniper" may
be an exaggeration; police think the shooter[s] is/are using a handgun
and firing from a vehicle.

http://media.kansascity.com/smedia/2014/04/11/22/13/Ft7FJ.St.81.jpeg
http://www.kansascity.com/2014/04/12/4956572/driving-scared-spate-of-random.html

And yes, I'm aware that even with the shootings, I'm much more likely
to be in a car wreck than to get shot. It still doesn't make the
commute *better*, though.

Matt Roberds

[Dan Bissonnette]

In article <lik0r6$dsm$1...@dont-email.me>, mrob...@att.net says...

> Then
> I got something I had never seen before, in probably a couple of dozen

> interviews over nearly two decades: a handwriting test. I was given a

> form and asked to write at least 10 lines in my own handwriting
> (cursive) on a given topic.

HTF is "handwriting" any measure of ... anything? 2014? Seriously?

A few years ago, Mrs. B. became alarmed at how my handwriting was
indistinguishable from some agitated pigeons with ink on their feet.
She put me on fountain pens. There was immediate improvement, and now I
can even read my own notes ten minutes after I write them.

Fountain pens are fun-retro. I highly recommend them. I now have a
signature that's actually (IMO) rather stylish. And (pretty much)
legible, after a fashion.

--
"Look, I came here for an argument ..."
"Oh I'm sorry, but this is abuse."

[Peter Corlett]

Dan Bissonnette <dangbis...@gmail.com> wrote:
[...]

> Fountain pens are fun-retro. I highly recommend them. I now have a signature
> that's actually (IMO) rather stylish. And (pretty much) legible, after a
> fashion.

I am also quite partial to fountain pens: when people "borrow" them, they try
to write something with them *and then return the pen*. This makes them
infinitely more useful than ballpoints which routinely go walkies so I can
never find one.

[Dan Bissonnette]

In article <liphfm$rct$1...@mooli.org.uk>, ab...@mooli.org.uk says...

> > Fountain pens are fun-retro. I highly recommend them. I now have a signature
> > that's actually (IMO) rather stylish. And (pretty much) legible, after a
> > fashion.
>
> I am also quite partial to fountain pens: when people "borrow" them, they try
> to write something with them *and then return the pen*. This makes them
> infinitely more useful than ballpoints which routinely go walkies so I can
> never find one.

Which brand do you favor? I started with the fairly cheap Parker models
... but they were forever clogging even with optimal treatment. The
Cross models are much better, IMO, with a Bailey and Medalist II
(~pricey Xmas present this year) forming the core of my pen-strategy
these days. Never a clog with these.

[Peter H. Coffin]

For me, the Cross ATX fountains hit right about the perfect spot. Just
inexpensive enough that I can rationalize having several, but luxurious
enough that nobody walks away with one. A Mont Blanc would be wasted on
me.

Mont Blanc ink, on the other hand... Awesomely good stuff.

--
186,000 Miles per Second. It's not just a good idea. IT'S THE LAW.

[Dan Bissonnette]

In article <slrnll102s....@nibelheim.ninehells.com>,
hel...@ninehells.com says...

> >> I am also quite partial to fountain pens: when people "borrow" them,
> >> they try to write something with them *and then return the pen*. This
> >> makes them infinitely more useful than ballpoints which routinely go
> >> walkies so I can never find one.
> >
> > Which brand do you favor? I started with the fairly cheap Parker
> > models ... but they were forever clogging even with optimal
> > treatment. The Cross models are much better, IMO, with a Bailey and
> > Medalist II (~pricey Xmas present this year) forming the core of my
> > pen-strategy these days. Never a clog with these.
>
> For me, the Cross ATX fountains hit right about the perfect spot. Just
> inexpensive enough that I can rationalize having several, but luxurious
> enough that nobody walks away with one. A Mont Blanc would be wasted on
> me.
>
> Mont Blanc ink, on the other hand... Awesomely good stuff.

The Mont Blanc ink is definitely pretty good stuff. I got a Mont Blanc
pen back in the day for a wedding present - and didn't appreciate it,
more fool I. Very nice - especially good-looking results on reasonably
nice paper. Pricey, though.

But what I like about the Cross / cartridges is that no "fiddling" is
necessary. You just plug in a new cartridge ... and go about your
business. And the ink is dirt cheap from Amazon.

I haven't tried some of the Chinese products, though I'm informed that
they're pretty much in line with most Chinese products; cheap, and just
work.

[Marc Haber]

Dan Bissonnette <dangbis...@gmail.com> wrote:
>A few years ago, Mrs. B. became alarmed at how my handwriting was
>indistinguishable from some agitated pigeons with ink on their feet.
>She put me on fountain pens. There was immediate improvement, and now I
>can even read my own notes ten minutes after I write them.

That would be a probably therapy for me as well. But first, I'd have
to learn not to lose a pen I have written with immediately. And if I
had 20 fountain pens, the one at hand would always be dried up.

Greetings
Marc
--
-------------------------------------- !! No courtesy copies, please !! -----
Marc Haber | " Questions are the | Mailadresse im Header
Mannheim, Germany | Beginning of Wisdom " | http://www.zugschlus.de/
Nordisch by Nature | Lt. Worf, TNG "Rightful Heir" | Fon: *49 621 72739834

[Marc Haber]

"Peter H. Coffin" <hel...@ninehells.com> wrote:
>A Mont Blanc would be wasted on me.

Mont Blanc has those awfully expensive luxury pens, and it also has
dirt cheap and unbreakable pens for school use. I have used them at
school[0] and they were fine even at my lose rate of about one pen
every two months.

When I was preparing to obtain my "abitur"[0a], I used a Lamy Model M
05[1] which I still adore but haven't written with for 20 years.

Greetings
Marc

[0] 30 years ago
[0a] after 13 years of school, which is something in the middle
between a college "degree" and high school graduation in american
terms
[1] Incidentally, I still prefer a Model M[2] today
[2] keyboard, that is[3]
[3] obASR

[Niklas Karlsson]

On 2014-04-17, Dan Bissonnette <dangbis...@gmail.com> wrote:
> A few years ago, Mrs. B. became alarmed at how my handwriting was
> indistinguishable from some agitated pigeons with ink on their feet.
> She put me on fountain pens. There was immediate improvement, and now I
> can even read my own notes ten minutes after I write them.

Interesting. I wonder if that would work on me. Frequent handwriting
with pencil and ballpoint didn't particularly in school.

Mind you, I can reliably read my handwriting. Even some other people
can, though quite a few cannot. Everyone can reliably identify my
idiosyncratic style, though; it's not quite like anyone else's I've
seen.

> Fountain pens are fun-retro. I highly recommend them. I now have a
> signature that's actually (IMO) rather stylish. And (pretty much)
> legible, after a fashion.

I'm a bit concerned that my signature is inconsistent. It hasn't caused
any problems so far, but theoretically it certainly could.

Niklas
--
Your system is likely running nscd, the name service caching daemon. Shut it
down, do not restart it! You will find your problem resolved.
-- Samba documentation

[Dan Bissonnette]

In article <lirvtc$b55$1...@parhelion.firedrake.org>, ank...@yahoo.se
says...

> > A few years ago, Mrs. B. became alarmed at how my handwriting was
> > indistinguishable from some agitated pigeons with ink on their feet.
> > She put me on fountain pens. There was immediate improvement, and now I
> > can even read my own notes ten minutes after I write them.
>
> Interesting. I wonder if that would work on me. Frequent handwriting
> with pencil and ballpoint didn't particularly in school.
>
> Mind you, I can reliably read my handwriting. Even some other people
> can, though quite a few cannot. Everyone can reliably identify my
> idiosyncratic style, though; it's not quite like anyone else's I've
> seen.

I think it's something to do with the smoothness of the ink from a
fountain pen, coupled with the tactile feel of a non-cheapo writing
instrument.

> > Fountain pens are fun-retro. I highly recommend them. I now have a
> > signature that's actually (IMO) rather stylish. And (pretty much)
> > legible, after a fashion.
>
> I'm a bit concerned that my signature is inconsistent. It hasn't caused
> any problems so far, but theoretically it certainly could.

The most comical aspect of using 12th-century "signatures" in the
digital world is those outlets that allow one to swipe a card, but that
still require a "signature." Here's the ASCII version of my
"signature" on an ePad:

~~~~~~~~~^^^^^^^^^^^^^^___________

... a sort of elongated horizontal squiggle that fills the box.

[BB <zojw8kw6r1]

On 2014-04-18 19:54:20 +0000, Niklas Karlsson said:

> I'm a bit concerned that my signature is inconsistent. It hasn't caused
> any problems so far, but theoretically it certainly could.

And probably should do, if The System did what it said it does.
--





BB
zojw8kw6r1<remove>@gmail.com

[Stoneshop]

mrob...@att.net wrote on Thu 17 April 2014 06:21 :

> police think

They do?

--
// Rik Steenwinkel
// Zevenaar, Netherlands

[Peter H. Coffin]

On Thu, 17 Apr 2014 22:09:09 -0400, Dan Bissonnette wrote:

> I haven't tried some of the Chinese products, though I'm informed that
> they're pretty much in line with most Chinese products; cheap, and just
> work.

*nod* Though they're seldom singing high praises, a lot of pen-nerds seem to
actually USE the Hero 329 pens...

--
When all you have is a hammer, every problem looks like a messiah.

[Julian Macassey]

On Thu, 17 Apr 2014 17:23:08 -0400, Dan Bissonnette
<dangbis...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Fountain pens are fun-retro. I highly recommend them.

You bet! I have a Lamy fountain pen, it makes writing a
pleasure.



--
Government wants to control information and control language because that’s
the way you control thought, and basically that’s the game they’re in.
- George Carlin

[Julian Macassey]

On Thu, 17 Apr 2014 18:28:14 -0400, Dan Bissonnette
<dangbis...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Which brand do you favor? I started with the fairly cheap Parker models
> ... but they were forever clogging even with optimal treatment. The
> Cross models are much better, IMO, with a Bailey and Medalist II
> (~pricey Xmas present this year) forming the core of my pen-strategy
> these days. Never a clog with these.

I like Lamy pens, Waterman are nice and of course Pelikan
make nice pens.




--
"She needs to stop doing drugs and get a grip. Then maybe we'll talk." -
Stevie Nicks about Lindsay Lohan, NY Times 2009

[Maarten Wiltink]

"Dave Howe" <Dave...@hawkswing.d-mon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:ZRx4v.20675$sc5...@fx17.fr7...
[...]
> There should be a collectable figurine "My Little Crony"
>
> You order one, and it seems reasonable quality for the price, but
> then dozens more turn up and somehow you still have to pay for them
> until you have the full set.

I think I've seen tv ads. By DeAgostini.

Tebrgwrf,
Maarten Wiltink

[Peter Corlett]

Dan Bissonnette <dangbis...@gmail.com> wrote:
[...]

> Which brand do you favor? I started with the fairly cheap Parker models ...
> but they were forever clogging even with optimal treatment. The Cross models
> are much better, IMO, with a Bailey and Medalist II (~pricey Xmas present
> this year) forming the core of my pen-strategy these days. Never a clog with
> these.

I just get the cheap plasticky Parker models: they're currently about £7 each
in Asda and I tend to buy a half-dozen or so every time so I can scatter them
around my working areas and have at least one working one to hand when I need
it. While they don't get stolen, I'm still quite capable of breaking or losing
them on my own.

They routinely come with blue ink which doesn't show up *at all* in a dark pub,
so I have to switch in blue-black or black ink. The blue ink is reserved for
when I have to fill in an officious form that demands I use a black ballpoint.

[David Scheidt]

Peter Corlett <ab...@mooli.org.uk> wrote:

:Dan Bissonnette <dangbis...@gmail.com> wrote:
:[...]
:> Which brand do you favor? I started with the fairly cheap Parker models ...
:> but they were forever clogging even with optimal treatment. The Cross models
:> are much better, IMO, with a Bailey and Medalist II (~pricey Xmas present
:> this year) forming the core of my pen-strategy these days. Never a clog with
:> these.

:I just get the cheap plasticky Parker models: they're currently about £7 each

I like the idea of a fountain pen, but the practice of them leaves
much to be desired. There's a very good reason that ball points
replaced the fountain pen instantly anywhere there wasn't a 'you must
suffer' mentality. Being able to stick a pen into a pocket is a huge
plus.

My carry around pens are Pigma microns. they write nicely (they have
a plastic tube that draws in by capillary action), come in a buncho f
colors, and are available with very fine tips. they write on just
about any dry surface, and are cheap enough that I don't feel too bad
about losing them.


--
sig 91

[David Scheidt]

Roger Bell_West <roger+a...@nospam.firedrake.org> wrote:
:On 2014-04-21, David Scheidt wrote:
:>I like the idea of a fountain pen, but the practice of them leaves

:>much to be desired. There's a very good reason that ball points
:>replaced the fountain pen instantly anywhere there wasn't a 'you must
:>suffer' mentality. Being able to stick a pen into a pocket is a huge
:>plus.

:When did you last use one? Because IME that hasn't been a problem
:since the 1980s even on really cheap pens.

I've got a couple fountain pens (A Lamy safari and a lamy
mumble, a cheap no name cartridge thing, a sheaffer cheapy. I do not
have a pen acquisition problem, no matter what my wife says.)

All of those pens leak when you stick them in a trouser pocket and go
ride a bike. They don't if you carry them around, up right, in shirt
pocket. I also have an amazing talent for getting covered in ink, so
that might be part of the issue.


--
sig 100

[Dan Bissonnette]

In article <lj3nev$kd7$1...@reader1.panix.com>, dsch...@panix.com says...

> :I just get the cheap plasticky Parker models: they're currently about £7 each
>
> I like the idea of a fountain pen, but the practice of them leaves
> much to be desired. There's a very good reason that ball points
> replaced the fountain pen instantly anywhere there wasn't a 'you must
> suffer' mentality. Being able to stick a pen into a pocket is a huge
> plus.

Not a problem. I mean, I don't know about 1940s-1950s era fountain
pens, but I've never had a single leak or other issue. They work fine.

[Possibly important caveat; I use *only* sealed-cartridge fountain pens,
not the kind that suck up ink from a bottle. As regards those, I have
no information...]

[Dan Bissonnette]

In article <lj3peb$fvn$1...@reader1.panix.com>, dsch...@panix.com says...

>
> All of those pens leak when you stick them in a trouser pocket and go
> ride a bike. They don't if you carry them around, up right, in shirt
> pocket. I also have an amazing talent for getting covered in ink, so
> that might be part of the issue.

I don't even carry a ballpoint when I ride my bike, so my experience is
pretty much worthless.

[David Cantrell]

On Sun, Apr 20, 2014 at 02:23:36AM +0000, Julian Macassey wrote:

> I like Lamy pens, Waterman are nice and of course Pelikan
> make nice pens.

I use the freebie I got from the local curry house.

--
David Cantrell | Pope | First Church of the Symmetrical Internet

Vegetarian: n: a person who, due to malnutrition caused by
poor lifestyle choices, is eight times more likely to
catch TB than a normal person

[Firesong]

On Wed, 16 Apr 2014 20:40:14 +0000 (UTC), mrob...@att.net wrote:

>David DeLaney <davidd...@earthlink.net> wrote:

>> On 2014-04-15, mrob...@att.net <mrob...@att.net> wrote:
>>> I was given a form and asked to write at least 10 lines in my own
>>> handwriting (cursive) on a given topic.
>>

>> I wonder if a couple verses of Jabberwocky would work.
>
>I don't remember enough of that correctly. I *could* lay some song
>lyrics on them, though. Next time.
>
>> Oh, do you mean on a topic you were given?
>
>Yes. "Write at least 10 lines describing your ideal work environment."
>
>Matt Roberds

Unimpeded
by
pettifogging
bureaucratic
rules
with
no
practical
applicability
and warm

Iain

[Stoneshop]

David Scheidt wrote on Mon 21 April 2014 20:52 :

> I also have an amazing talent for getting covered in ink, so
> that might be part of the issue.

Ah, you're an Ink God (c.f. Rob McKenna, Rain God), just like an excow-orker
was a Toner God. Just approaching a laser printer would cause him to be
covered with the stuff up to his armpits.

[Shmuel Metz]

In <lj3nev$kd7$1...@reader1.panix.com>, on 04/21/2014

at 06:19 PM, David Scheidt <dsch...@panix.com> said:

>There's a very good reason that ball points replaced the fountain
>pen instantly anywhere there wasn't a 'you must suffer' mentality.

Yes, and it has nothing to do with leaks. A ball point works with
carbon paper and NCR forms; a fountain pen doesn't.

--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz <http://patriot.net/~shmuel> ISO position
Reply to domain Patriot dot net user shmuel+bspfh to contact me.
We don't care. We don't have to care, we're Congress.
(S877: The Shut up and Eat Your spam act of 2003)

[Peter Corlett]

Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz <spam...@library.lspace.org.invalid> wrote:
[...]

> Yes, and it has nothing to do with leaks. A ball point works with carbon
> paper and NCR forms; a fountain pen doesn't.

I shall keep that in mind the next time I'm living in the 1970s.

[Maarten Wiltink]

"Peter Corlett" <ab...@mooli.org.uk> wrote in message
news:lj86le$pqf$1...@mooli.org.uk...

> Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz <spam...@library.lspace.org.invalid> wrote:

>> [...] A ball point works with carbon

>> paper and NCR forms; a fountain pen doesn't.
>
> I shall keep that in mind the next time I'm living in the 1970s.

Which will probably be in the 2030s, perhaps a little later.

It is my pet theory that the 30 years cycle in tastes is caused
by people reaching the age where (a) they slow down enough to
start suffering from nostalgia, and (mostly) (b) they have children
of their own[0] to inflict their own happy memories on.

Even as trendwatchers want to ever shorten that cycle, it should
actually be lengthening because people have children later.

Tebrgwrf,
Maarten Wiltink

[0] Not everybody, I know.

[Peter H. Coffin]

On Wed, 23 Apr 2014 13:53:47 +0200, Maarten Wiltink wrote:
> Even as trendwatchers want to ever shorten that cycle, it should
> actually be lengthening because people have children later.

Trends might have changed since 1997...

http://www.theonion.com/articles/us-dept-of-retro-warns-we-may-be-running-out-of-pa,873/

--
73. I will not agree to let the heroes go free if they win a rigged
contest, even though my advisors assure me it is impossible for
them to win.
--Peter Anspach's list of things to do as an Evil Overlord

[Chloe]

I haven't used NCR since.. er.. renting a van last week to move a spare
rack.
As for carbon paper.. My business bank account paying in book comes with 3
sheets in the back so the slip and counterfoil can be filled in at once.
That paying in book is 3 weeks old.

You don't have to live in the 70s, someone else might be living there for
you!

Chloe

[Niklas Karlsson]

On 2014-04-26, Chloe <Ch...@Meteor.igloo.snowfields.net> wrote:
> You don't have to live in the 70s, someone else might be living there for
> you!

I can live with that so long as the aesthetic influences are limited to
forms.

Niklas
--
Lithospheric flight paths typically result in extremely high drag
coefficients, often quite a bit in excess of design parameters.
-- Rick Dickinson

[Wojciech Derechowski]

On Sat, 26 Apr 2014 09:58:21 +0000, Niklas Karlsson wrote:
> On 2014-04-26, Chloe <Ch...@Meteor.igloo.snowfields.net> wrote:
>> You don't have to live in the 70s, someone else might be living there for
>> you!
>
> I can live with that so long as the aesthetic influences are limited to
> forms.

The aesthetic influences were so bad in the 70s we had to throw in the end
our fashion consultant into the pool of piranha fish.

--
WD

Who is Entscheidungs and what is his problem?

[Shmuel Metz]

In <slrnllmr6s...@Meteor.igloo.snowfields.net>, on 04/26/2014

Well into the 21st century I was had a place that still had an impact
printer on their 3090[1] in order to do multipart forms. I knew of
other places that used them due to legal requirements.

[1] Yes, it was well and truly obsolete, but they didn't want to
spend the money for an upgrade.

[David Scheidt]

Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz <spam...@library.lspace.org.invalid> wrote:

:In <slrnllmr6s...@Meteor.igloo.snowfields.net>, on 04/26/2014

: at 09:22 AM, Chloe <Ch...@Meteor.igloo.snowfields.net> said:

:>On Wed, 23 Apr 2014 11:03:10 +0000 (UTC),
:>Peter Corlett <ab...@mooli.org.uk> wrote:
:>> Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz <spam...@library.lspace.org.invalid> wrote:
:>> [...]
:>>> Yes, and it has nothing to do with leaks. A ball point works with carbon
:>>> paper and NCR forms; a fountain pen doesn't.
:>>
:>> I shall keep that in mind the next time I'm living in the 1970s.
:>>

:>I haven't used NCR since.. er.. renting a van last week to move a
:>spare rack.
:>As for carbon paper.. My business bank account paying in book comes
:>with 3 sheets in the back so the slip and counterfoil can be filled
:>in at once. That paying in book is 3 weeks old.

:>You don't have to live in the 70s, someone else might be living there
:>for you!

:Well into the 21st century I was had a place that still had an impact
:printer on their 3090[1] in order to do multipart forms. I knew of
:other places that used them due to legal requirements.

You [1] can still buy a new impact printer, they're pretty commonly
used for things like invoices and forms.

An industrial supplier I buy things from occasionally, who are rather
stone aged in many ways (for instance, they only ship collect, because
they don't want non-serious customers) recently
stopped using an impact printer and mult-part invoice/packing slips. I
was rather surprised, and had reason to call about something else, so I
asked. They'd run out of the forms they used, and having new ones made
was more expensive than buying laser printers to replace them. The
bloke on the phone was thrilled, because they were so quiet and fast.



[1] not me!
--
sig 28

[Dan Bissonnette]

In article <535cfbca$1$fuzhry+tra$mr2...@news.patriot.net>,
spam...@library.lspace.org.invalid says...

> >I haven't used NCR since.. er.. renting a van last week to move a
> >spare rack.
> >As for carbon paper.. My business bank account paying in book comes
> >with 3 sheets in the back so the slip and counterfoil can be filled
> >in at once. That paying in book is 3 weeks old.
>
> >You don't have to live in the 70s, someone else might be living there
> >for you!
>
> Well into the 21st century I was had a place that still had an impact
> printer on their 3090[1] in order to do multipart forms. I knew of
> other places that used them due to legal requirements.

True story. Last fall, I purchased a new car, from the same dealer I
last bought a vehicle from in 2003. Same finance & insurance guy, in
fact.

I was appalled to see him loading the stack of government forms into a
big Fujitsu impact printer. I expressed my amazement that the
government still required these outdated forms.

He replied:

"Danny. This is the *same printer* I used to print your last car deal.
It's been here since I signed on in 1998. And it was old then."

[Dan Bissonnette]

In article <ljj544$q4h$1...@reader1.panix.com>, dsch...@panix.com says...

> :Well into the 21st century I was had a place that still had an impact
> :printer on their 3090[1] in order to do multipart forms. I knew of
> :other places that used them due to legal requirements.
>
> You [1] can still buy a new impact printer, they're pretty commonly
> used for things like invoices and forms.

They are getting scarce, though. Albeit not as scarce as new, budget
laptops with (a) ethernet ports or (b) VGA ports or (c) <choke!> serial
ports.

[Garrett Wollman]

In article <ljj544$q4h$1...@reader1.panix.com>,

David Scheidt <dsch...@panix.com> wrote:
>An industrial supplier I buy things from occasionally, who are rather
>stone aged in many ways (for instance, they only ship collect, because
>they don't want non-serious customers)

Hmmm. Our purchase orders have always come endorsed "BEST WAY /
PREPAY AND ADD" for as long as I can remember. Does that make us
non-serious?

-GAWollman
--
Garrett A. Wollman | What intellectual phenomenon can be older, or more oft
wol...@bimajority.org| repeated, than the story of a large research program
Opinions not shared by| that impaled itself upon a false central assumption
my employers. | accepted by all practitioners? - S.J. Gould, 1993

[Julian Macassey]

On Sun, 27 Apr 2014 10:54:07 -0400, Dan Bissonnette
<dangbis...@gmail.com> wrote:
> In article <ljj544$q4h$1...@reader1.panix.com>, dsch...@panix.com says...
>
>> :Well into the 21st century I was had a place that still had an impact
>> :printer on their 3090[1] in order to do multipart forms. I knew of
>> :other places that used them due to legal requirements.
>>
>> You [1] can still buy a new impact printer, they're pretty commonly
>> used for things like invoices and forms.
>
> They are getting scarce, though. Albeit not as scarce as new, budget
> laptops with (a) ethernet ports or (b) VGA ports or (c) <choke!> serial
> ports.

Taking peripherals and ports out of laptops is a trend -
"For your convenience", as the ads always say when in fact it is
to their advantage and not yours.

Serial ports, Ethernet ports, Firewire ports, Serial
Ports, DVD/CD trays, and dare I say it Floppy Disk drives, all
becoming feint memories.

So, now we have lightweight laptops that are only good on
WiFi and for doing clerical work.

[Dan Bissonnette]

In article <slrnllqdoi...@adeed.tele.com>, jul...@tele.com

says...

> >> :Well into the 21st century I was had a place that still had an impact
> >> :printer on their 3090[1] in order to do multipart forms. I knew of
> >> :other places that used them due to legal requirements.
> >>
> >> You [1] can still buy a new impact printer, they're pretty commonly
> >> used for things like invoices and forms.
> >
> > They are getting scarce, though. Albeit not as scarce as new, budget
> > laptops with (a) ethernet ports or (b) VGA ports or (c) <choke!> serial
> > ports.
>
> Taking peripherals and ports out of laptops is a trend -
> "For your convenience", as the ads always say when in fact it is
> to their advantage and not yours.
>
> Serial ports, Ethernet ports, Firewire ports, Serial
> Ports, DVD/CD trays, and dare I say it Floppy Disk drives, all
> becoming feint memories.
>
> So, now we have lightweight laptops that are only good on
> WiFi and for doing clerical work.

To be fair to the industry, though, folks in groups like this are
outliers. My current laptop is *ridiculously* expensive, just because
it has these ports.

My sister doesn't need these features, nor did she ever need them.

[Joe Zeff]

On Sun, 27 Apr 2014 16:57:54 +0000, Julian Macassey wrote:

> Serial ports, Ethernet ports, Firewire ports, Serial
> Ports, DVD/CD trays, and dare I say it Floppy Disk drives, all becoming
> feint memories.

^^^^^

*Fwap!* Don't *do* things like that!

--
Joe Zeff -- The Guy With The Sideburns:
http://www.zeff.us http://www.lasfs.info
Accounts of Jesus’s miracles are rendered less credible
due to all the witnesses being fishermen.

[David Scheidt]

Julian Macassey <jul...@tele.com> wrote:
:On Sun, 27 Apr 2014 10:54:07 -0400, Dan Bissonnette

:<dangbis...@gmail.com> wrote:
:> In article <ljj544$q4h$1...@reader1.panix.com>, dsch...@panix.com says...
:>
:>> :Well into the 21st century I was had a place that still had an impact
:>> :printer on their 3090[1] in order to do multipart forms. I knew of
:>> :other places that used them due to legal requirements.
:>>
:>> You [1] can still buy a new impact printer, they're pretty commonly
:>> used for things like invoices and forms.
:>
:> They are getting scarce, though. Albeit not as scarce as new, budget
:> laptops with (a) ethernet ports or (b) VGA ports or (c) <choke!> serial
:> ports.

: Taking peripherals and ports out of laptops is a trend -
:"For your convenience", as the ads always say when in fact it is
:to their advantage and not yours.

And the advantage of my back. I don't use any of these things, why
would I want them? Why would I want to lug them around with me?
I don't miss the paper tape reader, either.


: Serial ports, Ethernet ports, Firewire ports, Serial

:Ports, DVD/CD trays, and dare I say it Floppy Disk drives, all
:becoming feint memories.

: So, now we have lightweight laptops that are only good on
:WiFi and for doing clerical work.

My work laptop, which has none of those things, is very well suited
for doing development on. It does a build in less time than the
machines in the build cluster do, and I can watch cat videos while
waiting.

--
sig 80

[Steve VanDevender]

Joe Zeff <the.guy.with....@lasfs.info> writes:

> On Sun, 27 Apr 2014 16:57:54 +0000, Julian Macassey wrote:
>
>> Serial ports, Ethernet ports, Firewire ports, Serial
>> Ports, DVD/CD trays, and dare I say it Floppy Disk drives, all becoming
>> feint memories.
> ^^^^^
>
> *Fwap!* Don't *do* things like that!

Well, he *could* have meant memories that he uses to distract an
opponent while he attacks elsewhere.

--
Steve VanDevender "I ride the big iron" http://hexadecimal.uoregon.edu/
ste...@hexadecimal.uoregon.edu PGP keyprint 4AD7AF61F0B9DE87 522902969C0A7EE8
Little things break, circuitry burns / Time flies while my little world turns
Every day comes, every day goes / 100 years and nobody shows -- Happy Rhodes

[Maarten Wiltink]

"Dan Bissonnette" <dangbis...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.2dc6e2edd...@news-east.giganews.com...
[...]

> "Danny. This is the *same printer* I used to print your last car deal.
> It's been here since I signed on in 1998. And it was old then."

The worst part about that story is that 1998 doesn't feel that long
ago to me.

(Oh-dear-we've-been-living-in-this-house-for-sixteen-years. Fuck it,
sixteen years isn't that long. My grandmother moved out of her house
in 1996. After my grandfather built it in 1934.)

Tebrgwrf,
Maarten Wiltink

[Peter Corlett]

Dan Bissonnette <dangbis...@gmail.com> wrote:
[...]

> They are getting scarce, though. Albeit not as scarce as new, budget laptops
> with (a) ethernet ports or (b) VGA ports or (c) <choke!> serial ports.

I've just acquired one: D-Sub video, 10/100 Ethernet, 3x USB2.0, 2x SD slots,
analogue audio in and out. No serial, sadly, although there are USB dongles and
I must... resist... rant. Nah, sod it.

What utter cretin came up with the USB Communications Device Class? If it was
an individual, let's hope they were a callow youth who has learned since, and
not somebody in the late stages of their career who has left a whole load of
fucked-up systems in their wake. It's such a short-sighted and blinkered design
that assumes that the only use of a serial connection is a dialup modem, a
device that was already obsolescent as USB was rising. Did they not receive the
memo that serial is a simple protocol, or was it lost in an office buried in as
much cruft as the protocol?

It's probably just as well that the stuff I tend to wave my "USB serial"
adaptor at happens to look enough like a modem that it kind of works if I don't
look at it too closely.

[c...@nospam.netunix.com]

Steve VanDevender <ste...@hexadecimal.uoregon.edu> wrote:
> Joe Zeff <the.guy.with....@lasfs.info> writes:
>
>> On Sun, 27 Apr 2014 16:57:54 +0000, Julian Macassey wrote:
>>
>>> Serial ports, Ethernet ports, Firewire ports, Serial
>>> Ports, DVD/CD trays, and dare I say it Floppy Disk drives, all becoming
>>> feint memories.
>> ^^^^^
>>
>> *Fwap!* Don't *do* things like that!
>
> Well, he *could* have meant memories that he uses to distract an
> opponent while he attacks elsewhere.

A bit marginal.

[ppint. at pplay]

- hi; "Steve VanDevender" tried operant systems conditioning:

> Joe Zeff <the.guy.with....@lasfs.info> writes:
>> Julian Macassey wrote:
>>>Serial ports, Ethernet ports, Firewire ports, Serial Ports,
>>>DVD/CD trays, and dare I say it Floppy Disk drives, all becoming
>>>feint memories.
>> ^^^^^
>>*Fwap!* Don't *do* things like that!
>
>Well, he *could* have meant memories that he uses to distract an
>opponent while he attacks elsewhere.

- if they are his memories, they must be raised and projected,
somehow, to distract non-mindreading opponents; and use of his
own, personal mind-power to distract must risk endangering the
actual attack if done upon any broad front; so: narrow feint -
and margin?

- love, ppint.
[drop the "v", and change the "f" to a "g", to email or cc.]
--
"I for one have been eight-bit clean for at least 15 years"
- keith f. lynch on rsff 20/3/2010 (3/20/2010 for merkins)

[Alexander Schreiber]

Have you tried living in a modern country?[0]

The last time I rented a van (couple weeks ago), I ordered it online, picked
it up and got the bill snail-mailed to me 1-2 weeks later. As a courtesy
copy for my records, since it had already been paid by credit card.

And WTF is a "account paying in book"?

Kind regards,
Alex.
[0] Like .ch or .de (although I'm out of date on the state of things there
since a few years).
--
"Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls and
looks like work." -- Thomas A. Edison

[TimC]

On 2014-04-27, Julian Macassey (aka Bruce)
was almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea:

> On Sun, 27 Apr 2014 10:54:07 -0400, Dan Bissonnette
> <dangbis...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> They are getting scarce, though. Albeit not as scarce as new, budget
>> laptops with (a) ethernet ports or (b) VGA ports or (c) <choke!> serial
>> ports.
>
> Taking peripherals and ports out of laptops is a trend -
> "For your convenience", as the ads always say when in fact it is
> to their advantage and not yours.
>
> Serial ports, Ethernet ports, Firewire ports, Serial
> Ports, DVD/CD trays, and dare I say it Floppy Disk drives, all
> becoming feint memories.

And screens of greater than 1080 vertical resolution.

> So, now we have lightweight laptops that are only good on
> WiFi and for doing clerical work.

I don't even know how you get excel to be useful at only 1080
vertical. What with that ribbon thing taking up half the vertical
real estate.

--
Thus sprach TimC
My dog is worried about the economy because Alpo is up to 99 cents a can.
Thats almost $7.00 in dog money. -Joe Weinstein in ARK

[Peter Corlett]

Alexander Schreiber <a...@usenet.thangorodrim.de> wrote:
> Chloe <Ch...@Meteor.igloo.snowfields.net> wrote:
[...]

>> You don't have to live in the 70s, someone else might be living there for
>> you!
> Have you tried living in a modern country?[0]

That was pretty much what I was implying, and pretty much got the expected
response.

I believe Chloe is in a gloomy corner of England that's still stuck in the
1890s, and the other respondents in defence of archaic paperwork are from the
other side of the Pond which also has rather Victorian banking systems.

> The last time I rented a van (couple weeks ago), I ordered it online, picked
> it up and got the bill snail-mailed to me 1-2 weeks later. As a courtesy copy
> for my records, since it had already been paid by credit card.

My experience was pretty much the same when I hired a man-and-van to move home
the other week. I paid the advance deposit by card and the balance by cash on
the day, I received a scribbled note on a Post-It for the cash and a proper
invoice by email when they got back to the office.

Is there some left-over wart in German law that still requires a paper invoice
for some things? In my consluttancy exploits, I've invoiced a reasonable
fraction of a million quid, most of it never going near a bit of paper.

> And WTF is a "account paying in book"?

In this context, I believe it's a book that resembles a chequebook, but
contains paying-in slips rather than cheques. A paying-in slip is a receipt
that the *customer* fills in when depositing cash and/or chequesq, which is
stamped by the cashier and handed back if it is correct.

Cheques and paying-in slips are obsolescent to the point I couldn't tell you
where either my own or my company's are.

I assume you know what a cheque is :)

[Juergen Nickelsen]

Julian Macassey <jul...@tele.com> writes:

> I like Lamy pens, Waterman are nice and of course Pelikan
> make nice pens.

Yes. I use three Pelikans currently[1], with Florida Blue, Prussian
Blue, and Montblanc Blue Black (in that order). The writing in the
background is that Florida Blue.

The Blue Black has become very light over the years; you can see a bit
at the bottom right border.

Some time this year (or next) I want to buy a Lamy 2000 pen. It is so
gorgeous.

[1] http://64927.de/pens/

--
Unix gives you just enough rope to hang yourself -- and then a
couple of more feet, just to be sure. -- Eric Allman

[Garrett Wollman]

In article <MPG.2dc6e2edd...@news-east.giganews.com>,

Dan Bissonnette <dangbis...@gmail.com> wrote:
>True story. Last fall, I purchased a new car, from the same dealer I
>last bought a vehicle from in 2003. Same finance & insurance guy, in
>fact.
>
>I was appalled to see him loading the stack of government forms into a
>big Fujitsu impact printer.

Not necessarily the government. Finance companies like to have all
terms of a deal on a single page, so they preprint most of the terms
onto a very long three- or four-part form, and the dealer just has to
fill in the numbers. Around here at least, the government part (tax,
title, and registration) is actually all electronic; it's the
commercial side of the transaction that's stuck in the 1970s.

Still better than when I bought my house and had to initial each page
(other than the signature page) of a dozen documents as my lawyer
passed them around the table to me.

[Dan Bissonnette]

In article <ljm15g$2j9k$1...@grapevine.csail.mit.edu>,
wol...@bimajority.org says...

> >True story. Last fall, I purchased a new car, from the same dealer I
> >last bought a vehicle from in 2003. Same finance & insurance guy, in
> >fact.
> >
> >I was appalled to see him loading the stack of government forms into a
> >big Fujitsu impact printer.
>
> Not necessarily the government. Finance companies like to have all
> terms of a deal on a single page, so they preprint most of the terms
> onto a very long three- or four-part form, and the dealer just has to
> fill in the numbers. Around here at least, the government part (tax,
> title, and registration) is actually all electronic; it's the
> commercial side of the transaction that's stuck in the 1970s.

Yep. That, too. But there was a glimmer of hope in that the finance
source (TMCC) does do "eContracting." But the whole thing is made no
more than a kabuki dance by the masses of forms. Sure, they gave me the
contract on a USB stick, but all the other paper went into a folder.

> Still better than when I bought my house and had to initial each page
> (other than the signature page) of a dozen documents as my lawyer
> passed them around the table to me.

A *dozen* documents!?! Perhaps recall has failed me since 1999, but I
thought it was more than 500 documents necessary to buy a simple five-
bedroom house.

The whole thing was a 17th century nightmare.

[Dan Bissonnette]

In article <535d56c4$0$44849$862e...@ngroups.net>,
the.guy.with....@lasfs.info says...

>
> On Sun, 27 Apr 2014 16:57:54 +0000, Julian Macassey wrote:
>
> > Serial ports, Ethernet ports, Firewire ports, Serial
> > Ports, DVD/CD trays, and dare I say it Floppy Disk drives, all becoming
> > feint memories.
> ^^^^^
>
> *Fwap!* Don't *do* things like that!

Hey, as fat-fingering a post goes, this one is at least amusing.

[mrob...@att.net]

Dan Bissonnette <dangbis...@gmail.com> wrote:
> In article <ljm15g$2j9k$1...@grapevine.csail.mit.edu>,
> wol...@bimajority.org says...
>

>> Still better than when I bought my house and had to initial each page
>> (other than the signature page) of a dozen documents as my lawyer
>> passed them around the table to me.
>
> A *dozen* documents!?! Perhaps recall has failed me since 1999, but I
> thought it was more than 500 documents necessary to buy a simple five-
> bedroom house.

I've bought a house twice, in .ok.us in 1999 and in .mo.us in 2009, and
as far as I recall, the document count both times was closer to
Garrett's. If I start counting from when I first said "hi" to the real
estate agent, probably a couple of dozen all told. I might believe 200
or 300 *pages* total. Both of these were existing houses; it might be
different for a new-build house.

In 2009, the bank I used listed the documents that would be required,
when they were needed, and who had to prepare them, on their Web site.
It also listed the dates for the documents they already had. I pretty
much just went down the list until I was stalled waiting for someone
else, and then started up again when appropriate. Apparently this was
not a common service of banks at that time, because the real estate
agent made a comment that most buyers were confused about what paperwork
was needed when.

> The whole thing was a 17th century nightmare.

I just assume that whenever I do something big with a bank, I will need
to sign lots and lots of paper. The thing I don't like about buying a
house is that several non-essential parties have managed to attach
themselves to the process, knowing that as long as their fees don't
exceed a percent or so of the house price, they can usually goad people
into paying them.

Matt Roberds

[John F. Eldredge]

My current laptop is a Dell Inspiron, which cost me about $300. It has a
VGA port, an Ethernet port, VGA output, and a DVD drive. It also has a
full-sized keyboard, including numeric pad. The full-sized keyboard was
the primary selling point for me; I have large fingers, and on my
previous device, a netbook, I kept hitting more than one key
simultaneously.