undoubtedly the dumbest thing i've ever seen

[hymie!]

Really. I thought I'd seen everything. Then I got this email.

Backstory -- I'm a volunteer webmaster for an organization. They're
having an event in January, and a month ago, I got a request to add this
to the website:

Go here to Pre-register and to get your event ticket:
http://www.eventbrite.com/my.anonymous.event.link

I created a link thusly:

<a href="http://www.eventbrite.com/my.anonymous.event.link">
Go here to Pre-register and to get your event ticket</a>

I got this response:

>B. "Go here to Pre-register and to get your event ticket: " should -not- be
>a hyper link.
>The actual link should be should on the page because hyperlinks do not work
>on all browsers.

Wow. Just wow.

>There should be two separate lines as follows:
>"Go here to Pre-register and to get your event ticket:
>http://www.eventbrite.com/my.anonymous.event.link

Um, ok.

--hymie! http://lactose.homelinux.net/~hymie hy...@lactose.homelinux.net

[Wojciech Derechowski]

On Thu, 18 Sep 2014 23:43:59 +0000, hymie! wrote:
>>The actual link should be should on the page because hyperlinks do not work
>>on all browsers.
>
>
> Wow. Just wow.

Well, they sort of don't in less then four-dimensional browsers.

--
WD

Who is Entscheidungs and what is his problem?

[Tim McDaniel]

In article <541b6e3f$0$48106$862e...@ngroups.net>,
hymie! <hy...@lactose.homelinux.net> wrote:
>[quoted]

>>There should be two separate lines as follows:
>>"Go here to Pre-register and to get your event ticket:
>>http://www.eventbrite.com/my.anonymous.event.link
>
>Um, ok.

Sometimes I print Web pages or e-mail. Yeah, I know, old-fashioned
(I even spell it "e-mail"! I write pages in HTML 2!). But sometimes
I use the paper as a reminder, or because I want to refer to it while
driving to an event, or whatever.

Also, being so VERY archaic, I read e-mail using Pine on a shell host
at my ISP. The e-mail is displayed in ASCII. I find it very
frustrating when e-mail has "Click here to activate your frobnitz",
and _here_ is a ridiculously long link. Pine truncates it at N
characters so I can't copy and paste it into a real browser, and
if I click on it, it goes to an ASCII browser that was developed by
Nergal-Sharezer the Rab-Mag, so it doesn't understand the JavaScript
that they invariably use for everything.

(It's also a nice heuristic for malicious e-mail when the visible URL
differs from the href.)

So personally, though you'll think me bizarre freak, if a URL is
reasonably short and unobtrusive, I usually think it better to present
the real URL in the text. (If it's not, then can it go in a paragraph
at the end without undue clutter?)

Given that, I would be inclined to come back with the suggestion

Go here to Pre-register and to get your event ticket:

<a href="http://www.eventbrite.com/my.anonymous.event.link">http://www.eventbrite.com/my.anonymous.event.link</a>

It is then clickable where at all possible, and for old fogeys like me
or some weird malfunction or some such, there's a URL they can see.

--
Tim McDaniel, tm...@panix.com

[Shmuel Metz]

In <lvgae9$62m$1...@reader1.panix.com>, on 09/19/2014

at 04:11 AM, tm...@panix.com (Tim McDaniel) said:

>I find it very frustrating when e-mail has "Click here to activate
>your frobnitz", and _here_ is a ridiculously long link.

I find it irritating rather than frustrating: my e-mail software will
handle a long URL, but it does not render HTML, nor do I want it to,
TYVM.

>Pine truncates it at N characters

You find that acceptable because?

>So personally, though you'll think me bizarre freak

Not for the reason stated.

>I usually think it better to present the real URL in the text.

Would it be advocacy to say that it is *always* better to not assume
HTML rendering in e-mail?

>Given that, I would be inclined to come back with the suggestion
>Go here to Pre-register and to get your event ticket:
><a
>href="http://www.eventbrite.com/my.anonymous.event.link">http://www.eventbrite.com/my.anonymous.event.link</a>

Well, I would prefer removing the tag:

Go here to Pre-register and to get your event ticket:
<http://www.eventbrite.com/my.anonymous.event.link>

--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz <http://patriot.net/~shmuel> ISO position
Reply to domain Patriot dot net user shmuel+bspfh to contact me.
We don't care. We don't have to care, we're Congress.
(S877: The Shut up and Eat Your spam act of 2003)

[Tim McDaniel]

In article <541ecabf$4$fuzhry+tra$mr2...@news.patriot.net>,

Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz <spam...@library.lspace.org.invalid> wrote:
>In <lvgae9$62m$1...@reader1.panix.com>, on 09/19/2014
> at 04:11 AM, tm...@panix.com (Tim McDaniel) said:
>>Pine truncates it at N characters
>
>You find that acceptable because?

- it's a text-mode mailer, and a convenient one; I can press one key
to delete a message and go to the next, and a few keys to do other
tasks.
- there are probably other text-mode mailers that I could use, but I
don't know them, and the learning curve would perhaps be a lot given
that a too-long URL bothers me maybe once per month, and the fix is
to curse and log into the Web mail interface
- I don't know how long the URLs are, so maybe other mailers would
truncate them too
- I get carpal tunnel problems when I do too much mouse clicking, but
typing doesn't seem to bother me much

>>Given that, I would be inclined to come back with the suggestion
>>Go here to Pre-register and to get your event ticket:
>><a
>>href="http://www.eventbrite.com/my.anonymous.event.link">http://www.eventbrite.com/my.anonymous.event.link</a>
>
>Well, I would prefer removing the tag:
>
>Go here to Pre-register and to get your event ticket:
><http://www.eventbrite.com/my.anonymous.event.link>

Perhaps there are programs that interpret <URL> as a conveniently
clickable link, but if so, they are not ones that I use and am
familiar with. I suppose almost all recipients read email with a GUI
that interprets HTML, and it would be convenient for them to have a
clickable link. For we few who do not, it's still a visible URL that
we can copy and paste into a browser, or whatever.

--
Tim McDaniel, tm...@panix.com

[ppint. at pplay]

- hi; firedrake r. "Roger Bell_West" prescribed:
>
>If you're sending your message in HTML, it's reasonable to assume that
>whoever reads it can interpret HTML, which even in its most
>parsimonious variants includes links. Whether that shows up to them as
>underlined text or "[wibble][4]" is not your business.
>
>If you're sending your message in plain text, send it in plain text.

- s/sending your/replying to a/ in both options above - no?

>If you don't know which group your audience falls into, use [UI] and
>then it doesn't matter.
>
>If you're a marketer, you won't have understood any of the above, so
>please print this article out and take it to your IT department.
>
>If you have just been given this article by a marketer, please run him
>through the shredder. Twice to be on the safe side.

- "straight cut or pear-shaped^W^W^W...", diamond cut -
or into mobius strips ?

- love, a ppint. as now fairly frequently receives mail
(from a couple of family members) in html, repeated in
a proprietary m$ format, then repeated in a third human-
unfriendly format, with no plain-text version* at all;
i'm not sure to _what_ they think they're sending mail.
(- or, as it's reportedly the default setting, to _what_
the designers of the 'doze-using products think their
customers/ultimate users'll be sending mail. if they do.)

* - preferably ascii

- love, ppint.
[drop the "v", and change the "f" to a "g", to email or cc.]
--
"only two groups of people in society actually behave
in a completely logical, self-interested way: one of
these is economists themselves; the other is psychopaths."
- "the trap" - bbc2 18/3/07 [3/18/07 for merkins] 21:55 GMT

[David Gersic]

On Sun, 21 Sep 2014 22:57:17 +0000 (UTC), Tim McDaniel <tm...@panix.com> wrote:
> - I get carpal tunnel problems when I do too much mouse clicking, but
> typing doesn't seem to bother me much

I used to have that problem. I ditched the mouse for a trackball and have been
much happier.

[BB]

On 2014-09-22 03:42:20 +0000, David Gersic said:

> I ditched the mouse for a trackball and have been
> much happier.

Agreed. Trackball is faster, more accurate, and doesn't cause repetitve
strain injury. There's just not that many to choose from.

[Rik]

They also stop cow-orkers from grabbing your mouse[0] and clicking[1] on
some 'funny' mail they just forwarded you.


[0] well, not that bit
[1] but this bit

--
Verdomd interessant, maar gaat u verder.

[Lawns 'R' Us]

On 2014-09-22, Rik <rik...@steenwinkel.net> wrote:
> BB wrote on Mon 22 September 2014 07:23 :
>> Agreed. Trackball is faster, more accurate, and doesn't cause repetitve
>> strain injury. There's just not that many to choose from.
>
> They also stop cow-orkers from grabbing your mouse[0] and clicking[1] on
> some 'funny' mail they just forwarded you.

If I had a dollar for every time a colleague has grabbed the
trackball, tried moving it around on the desk, then given up in
disgust, I'd be able to retire...

... in some third world country, probably, but still.

[Rik]

Michel wrote on Mon 22 September 2014 12:53 :

> On Mon, 22 Sep 2014 07:39:50 +0200, Rik wrote:
>> BB wrote on Mon 22 September 2014 07:23 :
>>> Agreed. Trackball is faster, more accurate, and doesn't cause repetitve
>>> strain injury. There's just not that many to choose from.
>>
>> They also stop cow-orkers from grabbing your mouse[0] and clicking[1] on
>> some 'funny' mail they just forwarded you.
>

> What has me curious here isn't how lusers respond to a trackball,
> but how, trackball or not, they even make it as far as clicking
> on a specific email before you've broken their fingers?

Okayokay, *trying* to click.

It amuses me to see them moving the trackball across the desk, so I usually
let them.

> V pbhyq frr "oevat lbhe znpurgr gb jbex qnl" pngpuvat ba.

X46, a Gränsfors 4995 or that newfangled Finnish axe.

[Shmuel Metz]

In <lvnl4d$osh$1...@reader1.panix.com>, on 09/21/2014

at 10:57 PM, tm...@panix.com (Tim McDaniel) said:

>given that a too-long URL bothers me maybe once per month,

Are you saying that it truncates long lines containing a URL but
leaves other long lines alone? If not, why doesn't it bother you when
it truncates text that you want to read?

[Shmuel Metz]

In <20140922000013....@firedrake.org>, on 09/21/2014
at 11:03 PM, Roger Bell_West <roger+a...@nospam.firedrake.org>
said:

>If you're sending your message in HTML, it's reasonable to assume
>that whoever reads it can interpret HTML,

Not even close; it is *never* reasonable to assume that somebody can
read whatever you choose to pump out. Even if the recipient's client
is capable of rendering HTML, his security folk may have prohibited
doing so.

>If you don't know which group your audience falls into, use [UI]

ITYM "use [UI] correctly"; that last word should be a given, but often
isn't.

[David Cantrell]

On Mon, Sep 22, 2014 at 07:39:50AM +0200, Rik wrote:

> They also stop cow-orkers from grabbing your mouse[0] and clicking[1] on
> some 'funny' mail they just forwarded you.

In what bizarre parallel universe is that behaviour acceptable?

--
David Cantrell | Nth greatest programmer in the world

Perl: the only language that makes Welsh look acceptable

[Shmuel Metz]

In <20140923091450.0...@firedrake.org>, on 09/23/2014
at 08:15 AM, Roger Bell_West <roger+a...@nospam.firedrake.org>
said:

>To expand: if you're doing this, you've already negotiated that it's
>acceptable to the recipient,

ROTF,LMAO! Nobody has *ever* negotiated with me whether to send me
HTML, yet I still get it, even *after* I have told them to send plain
text. What's worse, they send [UI] in which the first [UI] contains
only a blank line; I wound up unsubscribing from my doctor's e-notices
because of that.

>otherwise we're back to the paper shredder.

Make up your mind whether you're talking about what is acceptable or
about what the marching morons do in the real world.

[Juergen Nickelsen]

Roger Bell_West <roger+a...@nospam.firedrake.org> writes:

> [...] I haven't yet met a mailer which can't display plain text.

Of course. That is because text is a subset of HTML.

--
With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine. However, this is not
necessarily a good idea. It is hard to be sure where they are
going to land, and it could be dangerous sitting under them as
they fly overhead. -- RFC 1925

[Maarten Wiltink]

"Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz" <spam...@library.lspace.org.invalid> wrote in
message news:5420ba54$2$fuzhry+tra$mr2...@news.patriot.net...

> [...] Even if the recipient's client is capable of rendering HTML,

> his security folk may have prohibited doing so.

I wish my security folk would. They're completely paranoid about some
things, they're also the managers, but their mail and mine is HTML.

But mail doesn't bother me much. I went on vacation and found one (1)
message on my return, and that was from the version control system.

Tebrgwrf,
Maarten Wiltink

[Tim McDaniel]

In article <5420b987$1$fuzhry+tra$mr2...@news.patriot.net>,

Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz <spam...@library.lspace.org.invalid> wrote:

>In <lvnl4d$osh$1...@reader1.panix.com>, on 09/21/2014
> at 10:57 PM, tm...@panix.com (Tim McDaniel) said:
>
>>given that a too-long URL bothers me maybe once per month,
>
>Are you saying that it truncates long lines containing a URL but
>leaves other long lines alone? If not, why doesn't it bother you when
>it truncates text that you want to read?

It truncates specifically "clickable" URLs in HTML, which it renders
in the message like

You can _click_here_ to unsubscribe.

It wraps normal readable text. If the URL were in the body per se,
I'd see all of it, which is why I advocated that.


Probably nobody cares about the details.

If I click (by arrow keys and Enter) on that link, often enough it'll
say something like

Do you want to go to <http://some.silly.site.com/p/r/ning/plart/thapp/UC5rPR5aZ2jHKmu23BZZm3pqjTn9MxNAuF5mJDbuuEkCxG9axyEQPMpBzTvReEFFk32VAfmaJZE7TH3B...>?

and the "..." is the start of the truncation. If I expand the window
across two screens, the most I can do, usually it's like

Do you want to go to <http://some.silly.site.com/p/r/ning/plart/thapp/UC5rPR5aZ2jHKmu23BZZm3pqjTn9MxNAuF5mJDbuuEkCxG9axyEQPMpBzTvReEFFk32VAfmaJZE7TH3BEBnZ3spc3PgagVZmTtdMj3fwfbhTg3xYktpAGCsgQZCe4wqh7S6V5bFt7vch5NqEj6KjQ6YQ7KqXqNDX...>?

(I think Pine itself gives up at 100 characters or something
regardless of how wide the window is.) I don't know WHY the Hell they
decide 200-byte URLs are good, but of course I have no control over
that.

The mailer doesn't have a "view source" type of option, so far as I
know. The message itself is in an IMAP mail directory with file names
like

/net/u/13/t/tmcd/.maildir/cur/1392875285.M877890P6455V02D50008I00000000040A2157_0.mailbackend.panix.com,S=5253:2,S
/net/u/13/t/tmcd/.maildir/cur/1392885728.M626509P25494V02D50008I00000000040D0213_0.mailbackend.panix.com,S=5411:2,S
/net/u/13/t/tmcd/.maildir/cur/1392863277.M118994P7592V02D50008I0000000000116F63_0.mailbackend.panix.com,S=5556:2,RS
/net/u/13/t/tmcd/.maildir/cur/1392868268.M77956P25405V02D50008I00000000017C78B8_0.mailbackend.panix.com,S=4642:2,S
/net/u/13/t/tmcd/.maildir/cur/1392868500.M22457P28092V02D50008I00000000017C7A1C_0.mailbackend.panix.com,S=5521:2,S

Those are the raw messages. If the message is encoded as
"Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64", as happens a fair amount, I'm SOL
unless I wrote or found a program to decode base 64. I think there's
such a program on my ISP -- metamail, maybe? And I'd simply have to
run the program on each message and grep it for some distinctive
string in the particular message.

You see why I simply curse and fire up the webmail interface.

When someone does "http://sanity.com/mail/unsub?u=tm...@panix.com", as
is all too rare, with e-mail confirmation "reply to this e-mail if you
want to unsubscribe", I'm fine. Or
"http://sanity.com/mail/unsub?k=N995yrMdEmruRqHw", assuming it's a
truly random string and not generated from "tm...@panix.com".

Or if they include the URL in the text of the message.

--
Tim McDaniel, tm...@panix.com

[G. Paul Ziemba]

Roger Bell_West <roger+a...@nospam.firedrake.org> writes:

>Today, between bits of work, I am using an Austrian scythe on the
>garden. People understand what a scythe is even if they've never used
>one. Even though the illustrations of the Grim Reaper always get the
>blade angle wrong.

I could use one about twice or three times a year, and I haven't been
willing yet to lay out the cash for a nice handle and blade. Haven't
been able to find anything decent on the local "forsale" list either.
(So I'm still using a stupid short-handled grass-whacker that barely
gets the job done).

This spring I amused myself by calling the tool-rental places in town
to ask if I could rent one.

Most popular answer: "A what?" Second most popular answer: "Oh, a sickle?"
--
G. Paul Ziemba
FreeBSD unix:
10:06AM up 6 days, 2:36, 6 users, load averages: 2.00, 1.73, 1.47

[Lauri Tirkkonen]

Tim McDaniel <tm...@panix.com> wrote:
> (I think Pine itself gives up at 100 characters or something
> regardless of how wide the window is.) I don't know WHY the Hell they
> decide 200-byte URLs are good, but of course I have no control over
> that.

Sure you do, patch the source.

--
Lauri Tirkkonen | lotheac @ IRCnet

[Steve VanDevender]

David Cantrell <da...@cantrell.org.uk> writes:

> On Mon, Sep 22, 2014 at 07:39:50AM +0200, Rik wrote:
>
>> They also stop cow-orkers from grabbing your mouse[0] and clicking[1] on
>> some 'funny' mail they just forwarded you.
>
> In what bizarre parallel universe is that behaviour acceptable?

Well, obviously the one Rik is posting from.

Any cow-orker of mine who tried that would be clutching his smarting
fingers and receiving a lecture on the importance of not violating
the personal space of others.

Well, also any cow-orker of mine who tried that would first have to
figure out that my mail was in the window titled "Emacs: INBOX Summary"
and then work out exactly how to click on a message to open it.

--
Steve VanDevender "I ride the big iron" http://hexadecimal.uoregon.edu/
ste...@hexadecimal.uoregon.edu PGP keyprint 4AD7AF61F0B9DE87 522902969C0A7EE8
Little things break, circuitry burns / Time flies while my little world turns
Every day comes, every day goes / 100 years and nobody shows -- Happy Rhodes

[Måns Nilsson]

Den 2014-09-19 skrev Tim McDaniel <tm...@panix.com>:

> Also, being so VERY archaic,

No, you are normal around here. Perhaps even sensible.

> I read e-mail using Pine on a shell host
> at my ISP. The e-mail is displayed in ASCII. I find it very
> frustrating when e-mail has "Click here to activate your frobnitz",
> and _here_ is a ridiculously long link. Pine truncates it at N
> characters

However, as an upgrade to the floor numbering thread, I suggest that
we discuss command-line email clients instead. Why some are better
than others.

--
Måns Nilsson primary/secondary/besserwisser/machina
MN-1334-RIPE +46 705 989668
Once, there was NO fun ... This was before MENU planning, FASHION
statements or NAUTILUS equipment ... Then, in 1985 ... FUN was
completely encoded in this tiny MICROCHIP ... It contain 14,768 vaguely
amusing SIT-COM pilots!! We had to wait FOUR BILLION years but we
finally got JERRY LEWIS, MTV and a large selection of creme-filled
snack cakes!

[Dan Bissonnette]

In article <slrnm2iibp....@jaja.besserwisser.org>,
mans...@besserwisser.org says...

> > Also, being so VERY archaic,
>
> No, you are normal around here. Perhaps even sensible.
>
> > I read e-mail using Pine on a shell host
> > at my ISP. The e-mail is displayed in ASCII. I find it very
> > frustrating when e-mail has "Click here to activate your frobnitz",
> > and _here_ is a ridiculously long link. Pine truncates it at N
> > characters
>
> However, as an upgrade to the floor numbering thread, I suggest that
> we discuss command-line email clients instead. Why some are better
> than others.

Pine!?!?! Is anyone serious about this? Using that Ancient Crawling
Horror to try and do anything useful?

Are there time-travelers here? How do you discuss reality with people
who have an LG G3 in their pocket?

Use *Pine*!?!?

--
"You're having an internal argument with somebody named
DragonQueen42 - you're never going to win that argument."
- David Benioff, 'Game of Thrones' Producer

[Steve VanDevender]

Dan Bissonnette <dangbis...@gmail.com> writes:

> In article <slrnm2iibp....@jaja.besserwisser.org>,
> mans...@besserwisser.org says...
>
>> > Also, being so VERY archaic,
>>
>> No, you are normal around here. Perhaps even sensible.
>>
>> > I read e-mail using Pine on a shell host
>> > at my ISP. The e-mail is displayed in ASCII. I find it very
>> > frustrating when e-mail has "Click here to activate your frobnitz",
>> > and _here_ is a ridiculously long link. Pine truncates it at N
>> > characters
>>
>> However, as an upgrade to the floor numbering thread, I suggest that
>> we discuss command-line email clients instead. Why some are better
>> than others.
>
> Pine!?!?! Is anyone serious about this? Using that Ancient Crawling
> Horror to try and do anything useful?
>
> Are there time-travelers here? How do you discuss reality with people
> who have an LG G3 in their pocket?

We explicitly don't support one of our users who insists on continuing
to use /bin/mail on our shell server. Our only supported mail access
methods now are pop3s and imaps. He's figured out how to work around
that so he can continue to read mail with /bin/mail, and we've told him
that if his trick should ever happen to break, he's still on his own.

PINE is, however, a perfectly reasonable mail user agent. Does all the
things other modern mail user agents do and interoperates with modern
mail servers cleanly. You really can do a lot worse. (ahem M$ Outbreak
and Sexchange ahem.)

[Dan Bissonnette]

In article <m0dj3o$bht$1...@thames.novusordo.net>,
ste...@hexadecimal.uoregon.edu says...

> We explicitly don't support one of our users who insists on continuing
> to use /bin/mail on our shell server. Our only supported mail access
> methods now are pop3s and imaps. He's figured out how to work around
> that so he can continue to read mail with /bin/mail, and we've told him
> that if his trick should ever happen to break, he's still on his own.
>
> PINE is, however, a perfectly reasonable mail user agent. Does all the
> things other modern mail user agents do and interoperates with modern
> mail servers cleanly. You really can do a lot worse. (ahem M$ Outbreak
> and Sexchange ahem.)

I'm proud to say that the two "technologies" I totally managed to steer
my whole existence clear of are Novell Notworking and any M$
communications impediment.

But ... just use gmail.

[LP]

On 2014-09-22, Rik <rik...@steenwinkel.net> wrote:
>

>> V pbhyq frr "oevat lbhe znpurgr gb jbex qnl" pngpuvat ba.
>
> X46, a Gränsfors 4995 or that newfangled Finnish axe.

Talking of axes, about a week ago I had a particularly stressful day at work
(the CIO was basically sticking his nose in and trying to overrule technical
decisions that he was poorly informed about, on the basis of a misinterpreted
status report which was intended as a Good News Story but somewhere between
origin and CIO became "OMG! THE SKY IS FALLING IN!")

Anyway, I'm still not very good at the "not taking work frustrations home"
thing and noticed I'd run out of kindling. So I grabbed my axe (nothing
special, just a hand axe which I keep *very* sharp) and went out to the
garden to reduce some old pallet wood to tiny pieces.

This was a Stupid Idea as my mind wandered from the task in hand, back into
the office, then was brought straight back to the present when the blade
connected with my thumb.

Luckilly I hadn't swung particularly hard, and I felt it stop *on* the bone.

While I can dress quite a few flesh wounds at home, I'm generally better at
wound dressing 2 handed - so I drove across town to the hospital (cursing at
the new 20mph limit in force across the whole city) with my thumb in the
air.

I've been chopping wood for over 20 years, and this is the first time I've
bitten myself badly - all because I let work get in the way.

Still, no lasting damage done (I should have a nice scar though), the wound
is healing nicely and all that - but my god do I feel stupid for doing it
in the first place.

The nurse in casualty did complement me on the sharpness of my axe though
"looks more like you did it with a kitchen knife" - which was nice.

-Paul
--
http://paulseward.com

[David Scheidt]

Steve VanDevender <ste...@hexadecimal.uoregon.edu> wrote:

:PINE is, however, a perfectly reasonable mail user agent. Does all the

No, it's not. It's a tentacled horror of horrible tentacled code the
authors of which should be sacrifised to the tentacled horror god they
clearly worship, in some horible manner invovling tentacles,
unspeakable horrors, and the destruction of every copy of the source
code. And lots of horrible, unspeakable tentacaled pain.

Not that I feel strongly about the issue.

:things other modern mail user agents do and interoperates with modern

:mail servers cleanly. You really can do a lot worse. (ahem M$ Outbreak
:and Sexchange ahem.)

That's hardly an endorsement. And it's not even true that it
interoperates cleanly with things, because it will crash when fed
valid messages.

The only thing pine users deserve is mockery, a pointer to a client
that doesn't suck as hard, and a server whacking with a clue stick if
they ignore the pointer.


--
sig 127

[Dan Bissonnette]

In article <20140930134840....@firedrake.org>,
roger+a...@nospam.firedrake.org says...

> >But ... just use gmail.
>

> "The government's going to be reading it anyway, why make it hard for
> them?"

"We should all attach a copy of the Constitution to every email we send;
that would at least ensure that some least minion of the Obungle Junta
had the ability to read it."

[Dan Bissonnette]

In article <m0elrn$941$1...@reader1.panix.com>, dsch...@panix.com says...

> The only thing pine users deserve is mockery, a pointer to a client
> that doesn't suck as hard, and a server whacking with a clue stick if
> they ignore the pointer.

I'd opt for death at the hands of Motie Warriors.

[Tim McDaniel]

In article <m0elrn$941$1...@reader1.panix.com>,
David Scheidt <dsch...@panix.com> wrote:
>The only thing pine users deserve is ... a pointer to a client

>that doesn't suck as hard

What would you suggest?

--
Tim McDaniel, tm...@panix.com

[Steve VanDevender]

David Scheidt <dsch...@panix.com> writes:

> Steve VanDevender <ste...@hexadecimal.uoregon.edu> wrote:
>
> :PINE is, however, a perfectly reasonable mail user agent. Does all the
>
> No, it's not. It's a tentacled horror of horrible tentacled code the
> authors of which should be sacrifised to the tentacled horror god they
> clearly worship, in some horible manner invovling tentacles,
> unspeakable horrors, and the destruction of every copy of the source
> code. And lots of horrible, unspeakable tentacaled pain.

Just like every other piece of software then. (Well, admittedly most
other software was not written by a PDP-10 Lisp hacker who has very
grudglingly stooped to using C, muttering the whole time about stone
knives and bearskins.)

> Not that I feel strongly about the issue.

Personally I absolutely despise PINE because the built-in editor has
about 57% Emacs keybindings, which is just enough to activate my Emacs
finger macros until they crash into the other 43% of the keybindings
that work nothing like Emacs. But, hey, other people seem to be
productive with it and the mail they send me is far more readable than
the mangled crap that comes out of Sexchange.

[Peter Corlett]

Dan Bissonnette <dangbis...@gmail.com> wrote:
[...]

> Pine!?!?! Is anyone serious about this? Using that Ancient Crawling Horror to
> try and do anything useful?

It's a fairly typical curses (in both sense) MUA from a gentler era, and still
works. I dislike it mainly due to the user interface and the heroic effort one
has to go through to work on a modern mail system[0], but have no objection to
anybody else using it if that's their kink.

> Are there time-travelers here? How do you discuss reality with people who
> have an LG G3 in their pocket?

Generally by quoting their mangled HTML junk in my response, which roughly goes
"plain text or GTFO".


[0] i.e. one that uses Maildir, because mbox.

[David Cantrell]

On Tue, Sep 30, 2014 at 04:30:47PM +0000, David Scheidt wrote:
> Steve VanDevender <ste...@hexadecimal.uoregon.edu> wrote:
> :PINE is, however, a perfectly reasonable mail user agent. Does all the
> No, it's not. It's a tentacled horror of horrible tentacled code the
> authors of which should be sacrifised to the tentacled horror god they
> clearly worship, in some horible manner invovling tentacles,
> unspeakable horrors, and the destruction of every copy of the source
> code. And lots of horrible, unspeakable tentacaled pain.

Now, how do you feel about procmail and uw-imapd?

--
David Cantrell | Enforcer, South London Linguistic Massive

On the bright side, if sendmail is tied up routing spam and pointless
uknot posts, it's not waving its arse around saying "root me!"
-- Peter Corlett, in uknot

[Mike A]

Tim McDaniel <tm...@panix.com> wrote in <m0fk07$f0m$1...@reader1.panix.com>:

> In article <m0elrn$941$1...@reader1.panix.com>,
> David Scheidt <dsch...@panix.com> wrote:
>>The only thing pine users deserve is ... a pointer to a client
>>that doesn't suck as hard
>
> What would you suggest?

Here, in a.s.r, you're requesting advocacy?

--
Always bet on 'stupid'. It's a lot more common, and 'evil' usually has
more important things to do.
-- [author suppressed]

[Steve VanDevender]

David Cantrell <da...@cantrell.org.uk> writes:

> On Tue, Sep 30, 2014 at 04:30:47PM +0000, David Scheidt wrote:
>> Steve VanDevender <ste...@hexadecimal.uoregon.edu> wrote:
>> :PINE is, however, a perfectly reasonable mail user agent. Does all the
>> No, it's not. It's a tentacled horror of horrible tentacled code the
>> authors of which should be sacrifised to the tentacled horror god they
>> clearly worship, in some horible manner invovling tentacles,
>> unspeakable horrors, and the destruction of every copy of the source
>> code. And lots of horrible, unspeakable tentacaled pain.
>
> Now, how do you feel about procmail and uw-imapd?

Given that PINE and uw-imapd were created by the same author (and share
the bulk of their code) my feelings about them are rather similar. But
I feel a lot better now that I use Qbirpbg. Which is not without
horrors, but there are fewer of them in the source code itself.

[Stoneshop]

LP wrote on Tue 30 September 2014 17:37 :

> Anyway, I'm still not very good at the "not taking work frustrations home"
> thing and noticed I'd run out of kindling. So I grabbed my axe (nothing
> special, just a hand axe which I keep *very* sharp) and went out to the
> garden to reduce some old pallet wood to tiny pieces.
>
> This was a Stupid Idea as my mind wandered from the task in hand, back
> into the office, then was brought straight back to the present when the
> blade connected with my thumb.
>
> Luckilly I hadn't swung particularly hard, and I felt it stop *on* the
> bone.

About three decades back I was doing handywork in my parent's house, in
particular, redoing some electricity wiring. No stripping pliers, so I
rolled the wires against a blunt-ish Stanley knife to get the isolation off.
This worked well until someone changed the blade against a fresh one. The
next wire was cut through like a fresh sapling, and my thumb offered even
less resistance.

As I examined the inside of my thumb, I noted the cut being very neat,
clean, and curiously not bleeding much at all. I then reached for the
superglue, pressed the cut closed, put a few drops of superglue along it,
and added a bandaid to keep the wound clean.

I then went and bought stripping pliers.

--
Verdomd interessant, maar gaat u verder.

[Steve VanDevender]

David Cantrell <da...@cantrell.org.uk> writes:

> On the bright side, if sendmail is tied up routing spam and pointless
> uknot posts, it's not waving its arse around saying "root me!"
> -- Peter Corlett, in uknot

Sendmail was merely taking after its author, who I once saw at a party
doing pretty much exactly that.

[Richard Bos]

Stoneshop <rik.n...@steenwinkel.net> wrote:

> About three decades back I was doing handywork in my parent's house, in
> particular, redoing some electricity wiring. No stripping pliers, so I
> rolled the wires against a blunt-ish Stanley knife to get the isolation off.
> This worked well until someone changed the blade against a fresh one. The
> next wire was cut through like a fresh sapling, and my thumb offered even
> less resistance.
>
> As I examined the inside of my thumb, I noted the cut being very neat,
> clean, and curiously not bleeding much at all.

And this, home cooks, is why chefs keep their knives so very sharp.

Richard

[David Scheidt]

Michel <ab...@rubberchicken.nl> wrote:
:On Thu, 02 Oct 2014 11:01:22 GMT, Richard Bos wrote:
:> Stoneshop <rik.n...@steenwinkel.net> wrote:
:>> As I examined the inside of my thumb, I noted the cut being very neat,

:>> clean, and curiously not bleeding much at all.
:>
:> And this, home cooks, is why chefs keep their knives so very sharp.

:Mostly because it's so much nicer to work with sharp knives. Self-
:inflicted stupidity being less messy is only a very distant second.

It makes self-inflicted stupidity less likely. Sharp knives cut what
you put them on, they don't slip off.

Less mess doesn't matter if you don't cut yourself.

--
sig 27

[Peter Corlett]

Roger Bell_West <roger+a...@nospam.firedrake.org> wrote:
[...]
> One of the highest compliments I've been paid, by two guests at one of my
> parties: "Is that knife sharp?" "This is Roger's house, what do you think?"

That'd be the old "If I can't get arrested for it under the Offensive Weapons
Act 1996, it doesn't belong in my kitchen" rule of (sliced) thumb, right?

[Peter Corlett]

Michel <ab...@rubberchicken.nl> wrote:
> On Thu, 2 Oct 2014 13:58:12 +0000 (UTC), Peter Corlett wrote:
[...]

>> That'd be the old "If I can't get arrested for it under the Offensive
>> Weapons Act 1996, it doesn't belong in my kitchen" rule of (sliced) thumb,
>> right?

> Not that that seems all that hard. My nearly 2 decades old and not all that
> sharp Leatherman Wave would already run afoul of that if my interpretation of
> the relevant jvxvcrqvn page is correct...

General-purpose multitools aren't supposed to be covered, since the primary
purpose is a tool rather than a weapon. If you somehow did manage to maim
somebody with one -- e.g. by dropping it on their foot, or opening a
particularly déclassé vintage with the corkscrew attachment -- the CPS would
just pick a different dodgy law to bang you up with.

Also, it's only illegal to carry "without good reason", and I get to use that
defence because I'm not black. The Met have rather more in common with their
opposite numbers in Ferguson MI than a lot of us would like.

[Peter Corlett]

David Cantrell <da...@cantrell.org.uk> wrote:
[...]

> Now, how do you feel about procmail and uw-imapd?

I suddenly feel like I need a long hard drink. Handily, it's the first Thursday
of the month, so a trip to Penderel's Oak for a free leathering is indicated.

[...]

> On the bright side, if sendmail is tied up routing spam and pointless
> uknot posts, it's not waving its arse around saying "root me!"
> -- Peter Corlett, in uknot

I *think* I've become more mellow since I wrote that. Or perhaps it's merely
that I've gained more experience of qmail and postfix since, recalibrating my
baseline of acceptable MTA suckage in that sendmail is still an improvement on
those two.

[Garrett Wollman]

In article <m0jp5p$5tk$1...@mooli.org.uk>,

Peter Corlett <ab...@mooli.org.uk> wrote:

>Also, it's only illegal to carry "without good reason", and I get to use that
>defence because I'm not black. The Met have rather more in common with their
>opposite numbers in Ferguson MI than a lot of us would like.

That's Ferguson, MO. I don't know if Michigan even has a Ferguson.
(Well, I'm sure it has a Ferguson, sensu lato, but it may or may not
have a "Ferguson".)

I do know that half of all BBC announcers can't pronounce "Michigan".

-GAWollman
--
Garrett A. Wollman | What intellectual phenomenon can be older, or more oft
wol...@bimajority.org| repeated, than the story of a large research program
Opinions not shared by| that impaled itself upon a false central assumption
my employers. | accepted by all practitioners? - S.J. Gould, 1993

[Rik]

Michel wrote on Thu 2 October 2014 16:23 :

> Not that that seems all that hard. My nearly 2 decades old and not
> all that sharp Leatherman Wave would already run afoul of that if
> my interpretation of the relevant jvxvcrqvn page is correct...

Distilling what a patrolling London police officer told me, it's vaguely
possible that they'll see it as an offensive weapon if you're daft enough to
use it as such, but just carrying it on you won't be a problem.

Could be that he was uncharacteristically laid-back about it, but at least
it was a sensible approach, unlike the person manning the cloakroom at the
Science Museum, who proclaimed that if he so much as touched them (we wanted
to not walk around in the museum with those tools on us) he had to impound
them and hand them over to the police, with us facing a lot of hassle. This
in stark contrast with his colleague at the Natural History Museum, who just
labeled and ziplocced them and put them away to be collected when we left.

[Maarten Wiltink]

"Dan Bissonnette" <dangbis...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.2e93b7317...@news-east.giganews.com...
[...]
> Are there time-travelers here?

We are all time travellers. At a speed of a second per second.

> How do you discuss reality with people
> who have an LG G3 in their pocket?

A _what_? LG makes pocket knives now? Because today's phones are
too large and fragile to carry them anywhere but in your hand.
Which you have to do anyway because you have to use it *all* the
time, and so people can see what kind you have and how expensive
it was.

Except when you have a shred of sanity left, and consider your
time your own. Second by second.

Tebrgwrf,
Maarten Wiltink

[Richard Bos]

"Maarten Wiltink" <maa...@kittensandcats.net> wrote:

> Except when you have a shred of sanity left, and consider your
> time your own. Second by second.

Sanity? Haven't seen him around for years.

Richard

[Dan Bissonnette]

In article <542fb3c2$0$2974$e4fe...@news2.news.xs4all.nl>,
maa...@kittensandcats.net says...

> > Are there time-travelers here?
>
> We are all time travellers. At a speed of a second per second.

I dunno. Anyone still using pine hasn't been moving forward in time for
more than two decades now. "The Pine Story: Still Mired In 1989," would
be a worthy biopic.

> > How do you discuss reality with people
> > who have an LG G3 in their pocket?
>
> A _what_? LG makes pocket knives now? Because today's phones are
> too large and fragile to carry them anywhere but in your hand.

They are? Gawrsh. I didn't know that. And here - silly me! - I've
been carrying a smartphone in my shirt pocket for almost a decade now.

Thanks for setting me straight.

> Which you have to do anyway because you have to use it *all* the
> time, and so people can see what kind you have and how expensive
> it was.

I do? Again, I'm stunned at receiving this information. And here I'd
been just randomly taking it from my pocket as necessary to do something
useful.

I feel so small...

> Except when you have a shred of sanity left, and consider your
> time your own. Second by second.

Pff. Only people living under a bridge enjoy the fantasy known as,
"considering their time their own."

So. Enjoy.

[TimC]

On 2014-10-01, David Cantrell (aka Bruce)
was almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea:

> On Tue, Sep 30, 2014 at 04:30:47PM +0000, David Scheidt wrote:
>> Steve VanDevender <ste...@hexadecimal.uoregon.edu> wrote:
>> :PINE is, however, a perfectly reasonable mail user agent. Does all the
>> No, it's not. It's a tentacled horror of horrible tentacled code the
>> authors of which should be sacrifised to the tentacled horror god they
>> clearly worship, in some horible manner invovling tentacles,
>> unspeakable horrors, and the destruction of every copy of the source
>> code. And lots of horrible, unspeakable tentacaled pain.
>
> Now, how do you feel about procmail and uw-imapd?

You evil person.

Although procmail is admittedly very useful.

But Crispin shows his true little b bastard nature when he compiled
out the entire NFS locking code for an entire class of operating
systems because of a short lived bug in Deadhat 6. And I don't mean 6
Enterprising Dead rats. I did not cry for him when he and 600 other
staff were let go from UW a number of years back, in response to UW
outsourcing all IT to the cloud. Which ironically is based on
protocols invented by Crispin and fellow sacked workers.

--
Thus sprach TimC
"I like beer. On occasion, I will even drink beer to celebrate a major
event such as the fall of Communism or the fact that the refrigerator
is still working." --- Dave Barry

[Julian Macassey]

On Thu, 2 Oct 2014 11:23:41 +0000 (UTC), Roger Bell_West
<roger+a...@nospam.firedrake.org> wrote:

> On 2014-10-02, Richard Bos wrote:
>>And this, home cooks, is why chefs keep their knives so very sharp.
>

> One of the highest compliments I've been paid, by two guests at one of
> my parties: "Is that knife sharp?" "This is Roger's house, what do you
> think?"

Many times someone using my knives is warned: "These are
very sharp knives."

Followed by: "Do you have a Band-Aid?"

I did warn.



--
The best defense against propaganda: more propaganda. - Edward Bernays

[Chris Nehren]

On 2014-10-01, David Cantrell scribbled these curious markings:

> Now, how do you feel about procmail and uw-imapd?

Everything, and everyone, from UW should be banned from computers
forever.

--
Chris Nehren

[Chris Nehren]

On 2014-10-01, Peter Corlett scribbled these curious markings:

> Dan Bissonnette <dangbis...@gmail.com> wrote:
> [...]
>> Pine!?!?! Is anyone serious about this? Using that Ancient Crawling Horror to
>> try and do anything useful?
>
> It's a fairly typical curses (in both sense) MUA from a gentler era, and still
> works. I dislike it mainly due to the user interface and the heroic effort one
> has to go through to work on a modern mail system[0], but have no objection to
> anybody else using it if that's their kink.

So abandonware with a security model inspired by Swiss cheese
does not give you any pause when you consider software your
lusers want to run? Good to know, for Reasons™.

--
Chris Nehren

[LP]

On 2014-10-02, Garrett Wollman <wol...@bimajority.org> wrote:
>
> I do know that half of all BBC announcers can't pronounce "Michigan".

I would expect a higher proportion of BBC announcers to be able to pronounce
"Michigan" correctly than I would their American counterparts to be able to
pronounce "Worcestershire" correctly.

-Paul
--
http://paulseward.com

[Peter H. Coffin]

Undoubtebly true. I usually smack at it with "Wursteshure" and hope that
I mangle it enough to be funny.

--
20. Despite its proven stress-relieving effect, I will not indulge in
maniacal laughter. When so occupied, it's too easy to miss
unexpected developments that a more attentive individual could
adjust to accordingly. --Peter Anspach's Evil Overlord list

[Peter H. Coffin]

On Mon, 6 Oct 2014 17:05:16 +0200, Michel wrote:
> The Leatherman is so obviously not a weapon that I've never been worried
> about it,

Ended up getting a Leatherman Supertool through a TSA checkpoint once,
in about 2003 so you may be right. That the backpack was also filled with
not one but TWO laptops, a 5-port ethernet switch, a USRobotics Courier,
and an assortment of cables to wire all of these together in a hotel
room may have meant they didn't even SEE it through all the metallic
noise, and the fuss of getting to swab things and put samples in their
shiny new bomb-sniffer box probably distracted them some.

I stowed it in the checked bag (with the clothes -- far less valuable
than the work kit) on the way back.

[Rik]

Peter H. Coffin wrote on Mon 6 October 2014 18:55 :

> On Mon, 6 Oct 2014 17:05:16 +0200, Michel wrote:
>> The Leatherman is so obviously not a weapon that I've never been worried
>> about it,
>
> Ended up getting a Leatherman Supertool through a TSA checkpoint once,
> in about 2003 so you may be right.

If you have a Leatherman, you don't need a bomb. You just take apart the
plane.

[Ignatios Souvatzis]

Shmuel Metz wrote:

> ROTF,LMAO! Nobody has *ever* negotiated with me whether to send me
> HTML, yet I still get it, even *after* I have told them to send plain
> text. What's worse, they send [UI] in which the first [UI] contains
> only a blank line; I wound up unsubscribing from my doctor's e-notices
> because of that.

I tend to answer with an [UI] in which the 2nd [UI] contains a a line
claiming "Unfortunately, your mail reader can't display [first UI]."

-is

[Ignatios Souvatzis]

Michel wrote:
> On Mon, 22 Sep 2014 07:39:50 +0200, Rik wrote:
>> BB wrote on Mon 22 September 2014 07:23 :
>>> Agreed. Trackball is faster, more accurate, and doesn't cause repetitve
>>> strain injury. There's just not that many to choose from.
>>
>> They also stop cow-orkers from grabbing your mouse[0] and clicking[1] on
>> some 'funny' mail they just forwarded you.
>
> What has me curious here isn't how lusers respond to a trackball,
> but how, trackball or not, they even make it as far as clicking
> on a specific email before you've broken their fingers?
>
> V pbhyq frr "oevat lbhe znpurgr gb jbex qnl" pngpuvat ba.
>

I've had a boss who had a jbbqra pyho jvgu jbbqra fcvxrf in his office,
clearly visible to any student coming in.

-is

--
A medium apple... weighs 182 grams, yields 95 kcal, and contains no
caffeine, thus making it unsuitable for sysadmins. - Brian Kantor

[Peter Corlett]

AdB <ab...@leftmind.net> wrote:
> LP posted thus:

>> I would expect a higher proportion of BBC announcers to be able to pronounce
>> "Michigan" correctly than I would their American counterparts to be able to
>> pronounce "Worcestershire" correctly.

> For a brief time about twenty years back, it was a family in-joke to
> mispronounce the latter with various extemporaneous extra syllables while
> cooking with the eponymous bottle'o'flavour, but ever since it's just been "W
> Sauce".

Or just pronounce it "Lea and Perrin", since that's pretty much the default
brand. The only time I ever hear of other brands is when I've been cornered by
an evangelical vegetarian at a party or something.

[Peter Corlett]

The odiously-licenced Pine itself may well be insecure abandonware, but [UI
DELETED] is maintained and even passes Debian licensing muster. Your average
luser isn't paying enough attention to notice the difference. Pleasingly
though, it interacts badly with [UI DELETED] so it mainly just sits there
taunting users with mail they can't read.

In any case, I prefer to assume that any box that lusers have a shell account
on was compromised within five minutes of me issuing the first password.

[Marc Haber]

And how many people have actually reacted to that message other than
clicking the "Spam" button?

Greetings
Marc
--
-------------------------------------- !! No courtesy copies, please !! -----
Marc Haber | " Questions are the | Mailadresse im Header
Mannheim, Germany | Beginning of Wisdom " | http://www.zugschlus.de/
Nordisch by Nature | Lt. Worf, TNG "Rightful Heir" | Fon: *49 621 72739834

[Maarten Wiltink]

"Peter H. Coffin" <hel...@ninehells.com> wrote in message
news:slrnm35hru....@nibelheim.ninehells.com...

> On Mon, 6 Oct 2014 15:25:13 +0000 (UTC), LP wrote:

[...]

>> I would expect a higher proportion of BBC announcers to be able to
>> pronounce "Michigan" correctly than I would their American counterparts
>> to be able to pronounce "Worcestershire" correctly.
>
> Undoubtebly true. I usually smack at it with "Wursteshure" and hope
> that I mangle it enough to be funny.

There is an ineradicable rumour in my family that 'Wooster' would be
acceptable, when following it with 'sauce' anyway, but 'Worstshire'
actually correct. This always makes me wonder: how did the English
independently invent that Russian letter that usually takes five of
ours to transcribe?

Tebrgwrf,
Maarten Wiltink

[Wojciech Derechowski]

On Tue, 07 Oct 2014 05:50:48 +0000, Marc Haber wrote:
> Ignatios Souvatzis <u50...@beverly.kleinbus.org> wrote:
[...]

>>I tend to answer with an [UI] in which the 2nd [UI] contains a a line
>>claiming "Unfortunately, your mail reader can't display [first UI]."
>
> And how many people have actually reacted to that message other than
> clicking the "Spam" button?

Where is it?

--
WD

Who is Entscheidungs and what is his problem?

[Steve VanDevender]

Wojciech Derechowski <wdd...@um5000.mystora.com> writes:

> On Tue, 07 Oct 2014 05:50:48 +0000, Marc Haber wrote:
>> Ignatios Souvatzis <u50...@beverly.kleinbus.org> wrote:
> [...]
>>>I tend to answer with an [UI] in which the 2nd [UI] contains a a line
>>>claiming "Unfortunately, your mail reader can't display [first UI]."
>>
>> And how many people have actually reacted to that message other than
>> clicking the "Spam" button?
>
> Where is it?

Mail readers have buttons?

--
Steve VanDevender "I ride the big iron" http://hexadecimal.uoregon.edu/
ste...@hexadecimal.uoregon.edu PGP keyprint 4AD7AF61F0B9DE87 522902969C0A7EE8
Little things break, circuitry burns / Time flies while my little world turns
Every day comes, every day goes / 100 years and nobody shows -- Happy Rhodes

[Wojciech Derechowski]

On Wed, 08 Oct 2014 05:25:25 +0000, Steve VanDevender wrote:
> Mail readers have buttons?
>

They must have them. How else would you filter your spam?

[Erwan David]

Steve VanDevender <ste...@hexadecimal.uoregon.edu> disait le 10/08/14 que :

> Wojciech Derechowski <wdd...@um5000.mystora.com> writes:
>
>> On Tue, 07 Oct 2014 05:50:48 +0000, Marc Haber wrote:
>>> Ignatios Souvatzis <u50...@beverly.kleinbus.org> wrote:
>> [...]
>>>>I tend to answer with an [UI] in which the 2nd [UI] contains a a line
>>>>claiming "Unfortunately, your mail reader can't display [first UI]."
>>>
>>> And how many people have actually reacted to that message other than
>>> clicking the "Spam" button?
>>
>> Where is it?
>
> Mail readers have buttons?

Only the young ones.

--
Les simplifications c'est trop compliqué

[The Horny Goat]

On Wed, 08 Oct 2014 05:56:58 -0000, Wojciech Derechowski
<wdd...@um5000.mystora.com> wrote:

>On Wed, 08 Oct 2014 05:25:25 +0000, Steve VanDevender wrote:
>> Mail readers have buttons?
>>
>
>They must have them. How else would you filter your spam?

No buttons means no e-mail at all received even spam.

The epitome of recovery!!

[John F. Eldredge]

On Thu, 02 Oct 2014 14:58:01 +0000, Peter Corlett wrote:

> Michel <ab...@rubberchicken.nl> wrote:
>> On Thu, 2 Oct 2014 13:58:12 +0000 (UTC), Peter Corlett wrote:
> [...]
>>> That'd be the old "If I can't get arrested for it under the Offensive
>>> Weapons Act 1996, it doesn't belong in my kitchen" rule of (sliced)
>>> thumb,
>>> right?
>> Not that that seems all that hard. My nearly 2 decades old and not all
>> that sharp Leatherman Wave would already run afoul of that if my
>> interpretation of the relevant jvxvcrqvn page is correct...
>
> General-purpose multitools aren't supposed to be covered, since the
> primary purpose is a tool rather than a weapon. If you somehow did
> manage to maim somebody with one -- e.g. by dropping it on their foot,
> or opening a particularly déclassé vintage with the corkscrew attachment
> -- the CPS would just pick a different dodgy law to bang you up with.
>
> Also, it's only illegal to carry "without good reason", and I get to use
> that defence because I'm not black. The Met have rather more in common
> with their opposite numbers in Ferguson MI than a lot of us would like.

I once took a baguette, a wooden cutting board, and a kitchen knife with
about an 8-inch blade to a pot-luck lunch at my church in Nashville, TN,
USA, deciding to wait until the last minute to cut the bread so that it
would be fresh. Outside the church, I walked past a police officer, who
raised one eyebrow but didn't make any comment. I was carrying the knife
openly, not attempting to conceal it, and the baguette and cutting board
made it evident why I was carrying the knife.

[Maarten Wiltink]

"John F. Eldredge" <jo...@jfeldredge.com> wrote in message
news:c9t8h9...@mid.individual.net...

> On Thu, 02 Oct 2014 14:58:01 +0000, Peter Corlett wrote:

[...]

>> Also, it's only illegal to carry "without good reason", and I get to

>> use that defence because I'm not black. [...]

>
> I once took a baguette, a wooden cutting board, and a kitchen knife

> with about an 8-inch blade to a pot-luck lunch at my church [...]

> Outside the church, I walked past a police officer, who raised
> one eyebrow but didn't make any comment. I was carrying the knife
> openly, not attempting to conceal it, and the baguette and cutting
> board made it evident why I was carrying the knife.

Also, you were not black.

What I find most intriguing about that episode is not that you can get
away with parading by a policeman carrying a kitchen knife (once, the
eyebrow would seem to suggest), but that you would take a kitchen knife
to cut bread.

Tebrgwrf,
Maarten Wiltink

[Måns Nilsson]

Den 2014-10-13 skrev Maarten Wiltink <maa...@kittensandcats.net>:
> What I find most intriguing about that episode is not that you can get
> away with parading by a policeman carrying a kitchen knife (once, the
> eyebrow would seem to suggest), but that you would take a kitchen knife
> to cut bread.

<UI type="recovery">
6.8633.26
</UI>

/Måns, wears multitool and the occasional Sissipuukko.
--
Måns Nilsson primary/secondary/besserwisser/machina
MN-1334-RIPE +46 705 989668
Quick, sing me the BUDAPEST NATIONAL ANTHEM!!

[Maarten Wiltink]

"Måns Nilsson" <mans...@besserwisser.org> wrote in message
news:slrnm3pl22....@jaja.besserwisser.org...

> Den 2014-10-13 skrev Maarten Wiltink <maa...@kittensandcats.net>:

>> ... but that you would take a kitchen knife to cut bread.

>
> <UI type="recovery">
> 6.8633.26
> </UI>

Yes, that's a bread knife alright.

Tebrgwrf,
Maarten Wiltink

[Peter H. Coffin]

On Tue, 07 Oct 2014 22:25:25 -0700, Steve VanDevender wrote:
> Wojciech Derechowski <wdd...@um5000.mystora.com> writes:
>
>> On Tue, 07 Oct 2014 05:50:48 +0000, Marc Haber wrote:
>>> Ignatios Souvatzis <u50...@beverly.kleinbus.org> wrote:
>> [...]
>>>>I tend to answer with an [UI] in which the 2nd [UI] contains a a line
>>>>claiming "Unfortunately, your mail reader can't display [first UI]."
>>>
>>> And how many people have actually reacted to that message other than
>>> clicking the "Spam" button?
>>
>> Where is it?
>
> Mail readers have buttons?

Mine does! They're on the keyboard and labelled with letters. "J" goes
down, "K" up in the index list, "L" limits display to things you enter
after the dialog starts, etc.

--
Windows gives you a nice view of clouds so you can't see any potentially
useful boot time messages.
-- Bill Hay in the Monastery

[Juergen Nickelsen]

Michel <ab...@rubberchicken.nl> writes:

> On Mon, 6 Oct 2014 11:55:19 -0500, Peter H. Coffin wrote:
[...]

>> Ended up getting a Leatherman Supertool through a TSA checkpoint once,
>> in about 2003 so you may be right.
>

> Maybe. I'd be more tempted to think that was straight luck though, and
> certainly wouldn't hope to get away with it again. As you didn't, I see.

When I began a phase of semi-frequent flying in the 90s, I took care to
the Leatherman out of the hand luggage rucksack before going on a trip.
Once I forgot that, and on the way *back* at FRA the X-ray person asked
"what is that, a Leatherman?", and I started to apologize "yes, oh
sorry, ..." to which he said, "no, then it's okay, go ahead".

After that, I didn't care to take it out any more, until security at TRN
got prissy about it and I had to go back to check it in as luggage in a
huge orange padded envelope.

The year after that came 9/11, which changed everything anyway, but
before that, some were more relaxed than others. Of course, all the
cables you are still allowed to take make for fine garottes... not so
useful or threatening as assault weapons, though.


--
The user interface appears to have been designed by someone with
either a very cruel sense of humor or a serious sadistic streak.
-- Simon Joinson about the Fujifilm Finepix F10

[John Burnham]

On Thu, 16 Oct 2014 11:28:32 +0200, Juergen Nickelsen wrote:

>
> When I began a phase of semi-frequent flying in the 90s, I took care to
> the Leatherman out of the hand luggage rucksack before going on a trip.
> Once I forgot that, and on the way *back* at FRA the X-ray person asked
> "what is that, a Leatherman?", and I started to apologize "yes, oh
> sorry, ..." to which he said, "no, then it's okay, go ahead".
>

A few years ago I had to get a passport with about two days notice for
work. So I ended up having to go to the London passport office. They lead
me through the metal detector which lit up like a Christmas tree. I
sighed and handed them a Leatherman, they then waved me through with the
other three Leatherman/Victorinox tools still in my pocket.....

[John F. Eldredge]

I include bread knives under the general category of "kitchen knives".

[Måns Nilsson]

Den 2014-10-16 skrev John F. Eldredge <jo...@jfeldredge.com>:
>> "Måns Nilsson" <mans...@besserwisser.org> wrote in message

>>> <UI type="recovery">
>>> 6.8633.26 </UI>

> I include bread knives under the general category of "kitchen knives".

Too inprecise in this august froup.

--
Måns Nilsson primary/secondary/besserwisser/machina
MN-1334-RIPE +46 705 989668

It's the RINSE CYCLE!! They've ALL IGNORED the RINSE CYCLE!!

[Joe Zeff]

On Tue, 30 Sep 2014 19:18:31 -0400, Dan Bissonnette wrote:

> "We should all attach a copy of the Constitution to every email we send;
> that would at least ensure that some least minion of the Obungle Junta
> had the ability to read it."

For over half a century, it's been the custom to refer to most US
Presidents by their initials. I think that we should extend the custom
to the current President, omitting his middle name because it's almost
never used.

--
Joe Zeff -- The Guy With The Sideburns:
http://www.zeff.us http://www.lasfs.info
"FAIR" is something that comes to your town in the summer time.
It has rides and cotton candy. It has nothing to do with life.

[Kevin Goebel]

On Sat, 4 Oct 2014 10:45:52 +0200, "Maarten Wiltink"
<maa...@kittensandcats.net> wrote:

>"Dan Bissonnette" <dangbis...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>news:MPG.2e93b7317...@news-east.giganews.com...
>[...]

>> How do you discuss reality with people
>> who have an LG G3 in their pocket?

>A _what_? LG makes pocket knives now? Because today's phones are
>too large and fragile to carry them anywhere but in your hand.
>Which you have to do anyway because you have to use it *all* the
>time, and so people can see what kind you have and how expensive
>it was.

I love it when someone stops by our IT department and tries to start a DSW
by flashing their new, shiny, feature-rich fone and babbling out the
vendor's sales pitch of features, speed, and data allowance. When they stop
to take a breath, I pull out my Motorola V-170, wiggle it about, and say
"$4.65 per month". It's fun to watch their face as they do the math for
their new fone contract.

Kevin Goebel

[Lawns 'R' Us]

On 2014-11-10, Michel <ab...@rubberchicken.nl> wrote:
> I recently[0] had reason to walk into a phone store and noticed a
> billboard singing the praise of getting an iPhone on the cheap.
>
> The "deal" was 40 a month for 2 years, which subtracted by the
> cost of the same contract in sim-only form left 600 euro for the
> 8GB iPhone 4S.
>
> Which I thought kinda shameless, even for this sort of shop whose
> business is pretty much separating suckers from their cash.

In .au, the law explicitly states that the "minimum spend" (meaning
the minimum amount that you cannot avoid spending over the course of
for the duration of the contract) must be provided. In this case, if
you were to look at the figures for the two, you would see $960
minimum spend in the first instance, versus $360 minimum spend in the
second.

Of course, there are still a great many people who get lured in by the
low figure, and pay no attention to the total cost. But at least
there's _something_ there ...