Have we bought our Apple iWatches yet?

[Dan Bissonnette]

Full Disclosure: I haven't. Still wearing my old Seiko.

Battery life: eight years. And counting.

--
"You're having an internal argument with somebody named
DragonQueen42 - you're never going to win that argument."
- David Benioff, 'Game of Thrones' Producer

[Paul Tomblin]

In a previous article, Dan Bissonnette <dangbis...@gmail.com> said:
>Full Disclosure: I haven't. Still wearing my old Seiko.

When my Garmin Forerunner 910XT got run over by a truck, I seriously
considered buying an Apple Watch instead of a new Forerunner, but I couldn't
find a fitness/training app I liked the look of so I bought a Garmin
Forerunner 920XT which is about the same price as an Apple Watch. It does all
the fitness/training/racing stuff I needed, and some "Fitbit"-like stuff like
step counting, and it displays phone notifications (but not when I'm using it
for training/racing) so I can use it to decide whether to pull my phone out of
my pocket, which I believe is the primary use-case for an Apple Watch.

Plus it uses a heart rate strap rather than the wrist mounted heart rate - and
everything I've heard from people who've tried the Mio and other other wrist
mounted heart rate devices is that they stop working when you get really
sweaty, which is just when I need it.


--
Paul Tomblin <ptom...@xcski.com> http://blog.xcski.com/
Reliability went through the floor, tunnelled its way to the centre of
the Earth, and perished in the magma.
-- Saundo

[Erwan David]

Roger Bell_West <roger+a...@nospam.firedrake.org> disait le 10/26/15 que :

> On 2015-10-26, Dan Bissonnette wrote:
>>Full Disclosure: I haven't. Still wearing my old Seiko.
>>Battery life: eight years. And counting.
>

> I don't remember the last watch I wore. Probably more than ten years
> ago. The only time I miss one is when I'm demonstrating boardgames for
> hours at a stretch and would like to check the time without being
> obvious by looking at my phone.
>
> I would like a soft watch but not on such a closed platform.

I find having an online tracker constantly on me rather scary. So I
prefer my non connected watch and let phone in house/car when I do not
need it. And the more because phone is much bigger than watch.



--
Les simplifications c'est trop compliqué

[mrob...@att.net]

Dan Bissonnette <dangbis...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Full Disclosure: I haven't. Still wearing my old Seiko.

I quit wearing a watch in about 1990. There were clocks on the wall
(or on the screen) in every place I needed to know what time it was.

Since the mid-00s, I've usually had a dumbphone with me, and it makes a
decent clock.

I think because I didn't wear a watch for so long, once I see a clock on
the wall, my internal clock seems to be reasonably accurate for the next
few hours without further external references. It's not accurate down
to milliseconds, more like 5 minutes or so, but it does the job.

Matt Roberds

[Lawns 'R' Us]

On 2015-10-26, Paul Tomblin <ptomblin...@xcski.com> wrote:
> When my Garmin Forerunner 910XT got run over by a truck, I seriously
> considered buying an Apple Watch instead of a new Forerunner, but I
> couldn't find a fitness/training app I liked the look of so I bought
> a Garmin Forerunner 920XT which is about the same price as an Apple
> Watch.

I looked at the Apple Watch around the time it was released, as a
possible alternative to my 910XT. Unfortunately, one of my needs is
swimming, and that's something that Apple says is a Big No No.
(Comments from various bloggers who say it works Just Fine to one
side, I'd rather stay within Officially Supported boundaries as much
as possible, especially when spending that much money.)

So I saved my money, and stuck with the 910XT. There are a few nice
things about the 920XT (most notably, the swimming heart rate
monitors), but not enough to justify the price tag to replace the
910XT, IMO. Maybe when the 930XT comes out.. we'll see what happens at
that stage.

[Richard Bos]

Dan Bissonnette <dangbis...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Full Disclosure: I haven't. Still wearing my old Seiko.
>
> Battery life: eight years. And counting.

JobsWatch? What for?

Richard

[Mans Nilsson]

Den 2015-10-26 skrev Dan Bissonnette <dangbis...@gmail.com>:
>
> Full Disclosure: I haven't. Still wearing my old Seiko.
>
> Battery life: eight years. And counting.

I've got a Citizen fancy quartz watch with UTC and two timezones, which
I wear when I'm traveling across time zones. Battery usually lasts me
3 to 4 years. Other than that, when at home or somewhere else in MEST /
MET, it's the mechanical self-winding Seiko. I think it is going to need
degaussing soon, it is a tad slow.

The phone has its GPS turned off, and all sharing settings tuned to
"paranoid". It does not help, but the data They gather is just a bit
less useful.

Navigation is done using a non-networked tablet with local maps, and
GPS enabled. Given the bizarre
because-we-can-because-we-are-the-Phone-Company roaming fees for data
in .eu it is not only prudent, it makes economical sense.

--
Måns Nilsson primary/secondary/besserwisser/machina
MN-1334-RIPE +46 705 989668
There's enough money here to buy 5000 cans of Noodle-Roni!

[En Hest]

* In a previous article, Dan Bissonnette <dangbis...@gmail.com> said:
>>Full Disclosure: I haven't. Still wearing my old Seiko.

* (2015-10-26 15:22+0000) Paul Tomblin:
> When my Garmin Forerunner 910XT <snip>

I'm also on the Garmin things. Don't use the heart rate monitor much, but I
recently moved and I try to remember to turn on GPS logging before heading
somewhere. Usually the times I don't are the times I get lost and would have an
interest in seeing where I went.

I also take it off when I'm not moving. Like someone else pointed out, there's
always a watch in sight anyway. At a desk, having something strapped to my
wrist feels … odd.

--
TODO

[Alexander Schreiber]

Juergen Nieveler <juergen.nie...@arcor.de> wrote:

> Dan Bissonnette <dangbis...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Full Disclosure: I haven't. Still wearing my old Seiko.
>>
>> Battery life: eight years. And counting.
>

> Why would I want to tie a fruit to my arm?
>
> Nope - still happy with my LG G-watch R :-)

Have that and liked it for a while, but having to charge my watch
every night got old eventually - especially since before that I
wore one of the Casio Calculator watches with 10 years battery life.

So funnily, the Android watch got me looking at actual watches again
and now I've acquired a few. My daily one is currently a Citizen Ecodrive
Chronograph, in Titanium (to keep the weight down). I rather like it ;-)

Nice thing about the Ecodrive ones: they run on solar with reasonably
deep reserves (~ 6 months fully charged).

Kind regards,
Alex.
--
"Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls and
looks like work." -- Thomas A. Edison

[Paul Tomblin]

In a previous article, Lawns 'R' Us <nob...@nowhere.example.com> said:
>On 2015-10-26, Paul Tomblin <ptomblin...@xcski.com> wrote:
>> When my Garmin Forerunner 910XT got run over by a truck, I seriously
>> considered buying an Apple Watch instead of a new Forerunner, but I

>I looked at the Apple Watch around the time it was released, as a
>possible alternative to my 910XT. Unfortunately, one of my needs is
>swimming, and that's something that Apple says is a Big No No.

I don't know why they say it's a no-no, because it's certified as IPX7, which
is exactly the same certification as the 910XT and the 920XT.

--
Paul Tomblin <ptom...@xcski.com> http://blog.xcski.com/

"A computer lets you make more mistakes faster than any invention in
human history... with the possible exception of handguns and tequila."
- Mitch Ratcliffe

[Marc Haber]

Roger Bell_West <roger+a...@nospam.firedrake.org> wrote:
>On 2015-10-27, Chronos wrote:
>>Now, if someone made one that had n svatrecevag fpnaare, ASP naq gur
>>novyvgl gb vzcbeg XrrCnffK2 qngnonfrf I might be able to find a use for
>>it but, in their current form, "smart" watches to me are just posing
>>pouches with a touchscreen.
>
>Or indeed simply ffu cevingr xrlf.

You would really trust stuff like that to a seldomly-updated closed
OS?

Greetings
Marc
--
-------------------------------------- !! No courtesy copies, please !! -----
Marc Haber | " Questions are the | Mailadresse im Header
Mannheim, Germany | Beginning of Wisdom " | http://www.zugschlus.de/
Nordisch by Nature | Lt. Worf, TNG "Rightful Heir" | Fon: *49 621 72739834

[Hank]

In article <pan.2015.10...@nerdhole.me.uk>,
E.P.Sporgersi <m...@nerdhole.me.uk> wrote:

>On Mon, 26 Oct 2015 10:58:46 -0400, Dan Bissonnette wrote:
>
>> Full Disclosure: I haven't. Still wearing my old Seiko.
>>
>> Battery life: eight years. And counting.
>

>My Casio runs on solar. Projected battery life: A few billion years.

I have a Seiko SNE064 Solar Powered Railroad Approved plain watch that I
bought a few years ago. Keeps almost perfect time.

I get very tired of people who insist on playing with their so-called
smartphones in social situations where one-on-one is appropriate.
No need for a wristwatch that says anything but tell time, although this
one also has the date (handy).

Hank

[Lawns 'R' Us]

On 2015-10-27, Paul Tomblin <ptomblin...@xcski.com> wrote:
> In a previous article, Lawns 'R' Us <nob...@nowhere.example.com> said:
>>I looked at the Apple Watch around the time it was released, as a
>>possible alternative to my 910XT. Unfortunately, one of my needs is
>>swimming, and that's something that Apple says is a Big No No.
>
> I don't know why they say it's a no-no, because it's certified as IPX7,
> which is exactly the same certification as the 910XT and the 920XT.

Interesting point. I don't know. Probably to cover themselves, in the
sense that it's always easy to _add_ things you're allowed to do with
a device, but much harder to say, "Oh, that thing you said you can do?
Actually, you can't. Sorry. Our bad." There's also the point that the
touch screen isn't particularly responsive when wet.

And I just remembered the number one reason why I'd not be replacing
the 910XT with an Apple Watch: the Apple Watch doesn't do ANT+. Which
basically turns my power meter (on my bicycle) into a $US1300 set of
pedals. (The fact that it also won't do GPS without an iPhone nearby
is also a bit of a deal breaker.)

That said, I'll freely concede that my needs are fairly specialised.

[Stoneshop]

Dan Bissonnette wrote:

> Full Disclosure: I haven't. Still wearing my old Seiko.
>
> Battery life: eight years.

Battery? What battery?

(it's not the one I'm wearing at the moment, but the '5' is still going
strong after 35 years. except one end of the wristband that's missing some
kind of cover)

--
// Rik Steenwinkel
// Zevenaar, Netherlands

[Peter H. Coffin]

On Mon, 26 Oct 2015 10:58:46 -0400, Dan Bissonnette wrote:
>

> Full Disclosure: I haven't. Still wearing my old Seiko.
>
> Battery life: eight years. And counting.

Orient Mako with rubber band. No battery. I adjust it every month that
doesn't have 31 days in it.

--
14. The hero is not entitled to a last kiss, a last cigarette, or any
other form of last request.
--Peter Anspach's list of things to do as an Evil Overlord

[Paul Tomblin]

One of the reasons I considered the Apple Watch is the only ANT+ device I
have, a Wahoo TIKR heart rate band, does both ANT+ and Bluetooth Low Energy.

The heart rate strap that came with the 910XT was a piece of crap and never
worked well for me, that's why I bought the TIKR. But even better, when I'm
riding my bike, I can have my heart rate on my Garmin and on my iPhone. The
only problem is that while I got the heart rate working on Wahoo Fitness and
Strava, I couldn't get it to work with Ride With GPS.

--
Paul Tomblin <ptom...@xcski.com> http://blog.xcski.com/

"This was, apparently, beyond her ken. So far beyond her ken that she was
well into barbie territory." - J.D. Baldwin

[Paul Tomblin]

In a previous article, han...@blackhole.lostwells.org (Hank) said:
>I get very tired of people who insist on playing with their so-called
>smartphones in social situations where one-on-one is appropriate.

But that's the whole use-case for an Apple Watch (according to CPG Grey) - the
iPhone 6 Plus is a pain in the ass to take out of your pocket, and like you
say, even if it wasn't, it might not be appropriate to take it out and look at
it - but with the Watch, you can quickly glance at your wrist, and see "oh,
that's my wife texting me, that might be important" and take out the phone, or
more frequently "that's a facebook notification, that can wait".

--
Paul Tomblin <ptom...@xcski.com> http://blog.xcski.com/

The software said it requires Windows 95 or better, so I installed Linux

[Lawns 'R' Us]

On 2015-10-28, Paul Tomblin <ptomblin...@xcski.com> wrote:
> The heart rate strap that came with the 910XT was a piece of crap and never
> worked well for me, that's why I bought the TIKR.

Yeah, a lot of people say the same thing. I've never had an issue;
maybe I've just been lucky. But I've heard that you can use a Polar
strap with the Garmin sensor (the plastic bit that clips onto the
strap) and it works just fine. Note: rumour, anecdotal, take with
appropriately sized chunks of salt. Also, that's the Polar STRAP, not
the Polar sensor; the Polar sensor is not compatible with anything but
other Polar gear.

[Paul Tomblin]

In a previous article, Lawns 'R' Us <nob...@nowhere.example.com> said:

>On 2015-10-28, Paul Tomblin <ptomblin...@xcski.com> wrote:
>> The heart rate strap that came with the 910XT was a piece of crap and never
>> worked well for me, that's why I bought the TIKR.
>
>Yeah, a lot of people say the same thing. I've never had an issue;
>maybe I've just been lucky. But I've heard that you can use a Polar
>strap with the Garmin sensor (the plastic bit that clips onto the
>strap) and it works just fine. Note: rumour, anecdotal, take with

Yes, I had that experience as well. I still found the experience that in cold
weather the Garmin wouldn't really register until I'd worked a sweat up, and
if I used electrolyte gel it would register for an hour or so and then it
would wash off and stop working. I even tried shaving my chest hair under the
strap, which gets you some strange looks when you take your shirt off.

The TIKR has its own problems - for instance sometimes it reads really high
for the first 10 minutes or so, but then it settles down.

--
Paul Tomblin <ptom...@xcski.com> http://blog.xcski.com/

Usenet is a co-operative venture, backed by nasty people -
follow the standards.
-- Chris Rovers

[Alexander Schreiber]

Lawns 'R' Us <nob...@nowhere.example.com> wrote:
> On 2015-10-27, Paul Tomblin <ptomblin...@xcski.com> wrote:
>> In a previous article, Lawns 'R' Us <nob...@nowhere.example.com> said:
>>>I looked at the Apple Watch around the time it was released, as a
>>>possible alternative to my 910XT. Unfortunately, one of my needs is
>>>swimming, and that's something that Apple says is a Big No No.
>>
>> I don't know why they say it's a no-no, because it's certified as IPX7,
>> which is exactly the same certification as the 910XT and the 920XT.
>
> Interesting point. I don't know. Probably to cover themselves, in the
> sense that it's always easy to _add_ things you're allowed to do with
> a device, but much harder to say, "Oh, that thing you said you can do?
> Actually, you can't. Sorry. Our bad." There's also the point that the
> touch screen isn't particularly responsive when wet.

Like, for example, Fbal? Their ads for some of their smartphones included
people taking photos underwater with them to show off their water resistance
and then Fbal told people in effect "If you actually do that, bye bye
warranty".

KInd regards,

[Richard Bos]

ptomblin...@xcski.com (Paul Tomblin) wrote:

> In a previous article, han...@blackhole.lostwells.org (Hank) said:
> >I get very tired of people who insist on playing with their so-called
> >smartphones in social situations where one-on-one is appropriate.
>
> But that's the whole use-case for an Apple Watch (according to CPG Grey) - the
> iPhone 6 Plus is a pain in the ass to take out of your pocket, and like you
> say, even if it wasn't, it might not be appropriate to take it out and look at
> it - but with the Watch, you can quickly glance at your wrist, and see "oh,
> that's my wife texting me, that might be important" and take out the phone, or
> more frequently "that's a facebook notification, that can wait".

IME, for the average public-smartphone-user, you have those priorities
quite reversed. Also, for the Stevientologists, I'd expect the
notification to come from Reddit or Tumbler, not Facebork, but the
behaviour is the same.

Richard

[Dan Bissonnette]

In article <n0ql3i$4k0$2...@linode.xcski.com>, ptomblin...@xcski.com
says...

>
> In a previous article, han...@blackhole.lostwells.org (Hank) said:
> >I get very tired of people who insist on playing with their so-called
> >smartphones in social situations where one-on-one is appropriate.
>
> But that's the whole use-case for an Apple Watch (according to CPG Grey) - the
> iPhone 6 Plus is a pain in the ass to take out of your pocket, and like you
> say, even if it wasn't, it might not be appropriate to take it out and look at
> it - but with the Watch, you can quickly glance at your wrist, and see "oh,
> that's my wife texting me, that might be important" and take out the phone, or
> more frequently "that's a facebook notification, that can wait".

I have yet to see an Apple iWatch in the wild. And *all* of my friends
and cow-orkers are techie-types.

[Ivan D. Reid]

On Thu, 29 Oct 2015 17:15:01 -0400, Dan Bissonnette <dangbis...@gmail.com>
wrote in <MPG.309c565d5...@news.giganews.com>:

> I have yet to see an Apple iWatch in the wild. And *all* of my friends
> and cow-orkers are techie-types.

I saw a Chinese student pay for his purchases (two-quid odd) by
using a tap-to-pay watch in the local (Uxbridge) Tesco on Wednesday night.
I presume it was an i-thingy. A colleague's son apparently revels in
using his to pay for drinks in pubs. The Telegraph's Alex cartoon even
featured it a little while ago:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/alex/?cartoon=11925584&cc=11902977

--
Ivan Reid, School of Engineering & Design, _____________ CMS Collaboration,
Brunel University. Ivan.Reid@[brunel.ac.uk|cern.ch] Room 40-1-B12, CERN

[Wojciech Derechowski]

On Wed, 28 Oct 2015 14:12:02 +0000, Paul Tomblin wrote:
> In a previous article, han...@blackhole.lostwells.org (Hank) said:
>>I get very tired of people who insist on playing with their so-called
>>smartphones in social situations where one-on-one is appropriate.
>
> But that's the whole use-case for an Apple Watch (according to CPG Grey) - the
> iPhone 6 Plus is a pain in the ass to take out of your pocket,

Then something like Apple Suppository may be appropriate, discretely vibrating
or emiting smells to provide notifications. A perfect ellipsoid design will
earn it instant acceptance.

--
WD

Who is Entscheidungs and what is his problem?

[Dan Bissonnette]

In article <slrnn35pt3...@um4000.mystora.com>,
wdd...@um5000.mystora.com says...

> > In a previous article, han...@blackhole.lostwells.org (Hank) said:
> >>I get very tired of people who insist on playing with their so-called
> >>smartphones in social situations where one-on-one is appropriate.
> >
> > But that's the whole use-case for an Apple Watch (according to CPG Grey) - the
> > iPhone 6 Plus is a pain in the ass to take out of your pocket,
>
> Then something like Apple Suppository may be appropriate, discretely vibrating
> or emiting smells to provide notifications. A perfect ellipsoid design will
> earn it instant acceptance.

What always keeps me away from Apple devices is neatly summed up as:

"I don't need another fucking charging device in my life. Micro-USB
will do nicely, thank you."

[Paul Tomblin]

In a previous article, Dan Bissonnette <dangbis...@gmail.com> said:

>What always keeps me away from Apple devices is neatly summed up as:
>
>"I don't need another fucking charging device in my life. Micro-USB
>will do nicely, thank you."

Anker makes a really nice 5 port charging hub that can charge tablets (iPads)
as fast as an Apple charger. I have two Lightning cables and two micro-USB
cables and a mini-USB cable hanging out of mine. The Forerunner cradle hangs
out of the USB3 hub on my laptop because it frequently thinks it needs to
install updates.

But I only charge my phone and tablet every other day, my blue tooth headset
every night, and my Forerunner every 3 or 4 days.

--
Paul Tomblin <ptom...@xcski.com> http://blog.xcski.com/

My brother went to Florida, and all he bought me was this stupid election.
- George W. Bush

[mikea]

Paul Tomblin <ptomblin...@xcski.com> wrote in <n0vhuq$p8o$1...@linode.xcski.com>:

> In a previous article, Dan Bissonnette <dangbis...@gmail.com> said:
>>What always keeps me away from Apple devices is neatly summed up as:
>>
>>"I don't need another fucking charging device in my life. Micro-USB
>>will do nicely, thank you."
>
> Anker makes a really nice 5 port charging hub that can charge tablets
> (iPads)
> as fast as an Apple charger. I have two Lightning cables and two micro-USB
> cables and a mini-USB cable hanging out of mine. The Forerunner cradle hangs
> out of the USB3 hub on my laptop because it frequently thinks it needs to
> install updates.

s/5/10 and it stil is true. It will charge two iPhones and two iPads, plus a
VZ LTE<->WiFi hotspot, a BlueTooth speaker, and various other things, very
nicely. One of the 10-holers lives in our RV, and one in each car.

> But I only charge my phone and tablet every other day, my blue tooth headset
> every night, and my Forerunner every 3 or 4 days.

Bedside: iPad, iPhone, BlueTooth headphones, FitBit, two RPi devices, one
BeagleBone Black. Two Lightning, one mini-USB, two micro-USB, and whatever the
Hell the BeagleBone takes. It Just Works, so I don't even sweat it.

--
Imagine a stegosaurus wearing rocket powered roller skates, & you'll
get a fair idea of its elegance, stability & ease of crash recovery.
-- Lionel Lauer

[Mans Nilsson]

Den 2015-10-30 skrev Dan Bissonnette <dangbis...@gmail.com>:

> "I don't need another fucking charging device in my life. Micro-USB
> will do nicely, thank you."

No. Micro-USB is the idea of USB, taken several steps way, way too
far along the line from "will break if trodden upon" to "will break at
first usage."

It is my (so far) all-time "winner" for "shittiest connector known
to humanity".

Besides, it's impossible to tell which way it goes. (but that of course
is shared with all USB)

The fruity thingamabobs are much, much better, especially the magnetic
ones. They, of course suck, as well, being hardware. But the microUSB
deserves to reside in its own class of mega-shit.

--
Måns Nilsson primary/secondary/besserwisser/machina
MN-1334-RIPE +46 705 989668

Xerox your lunch and file it under "sex offenders"!

[mikea]

Mans Nilsson <mans...@besserwisser.org> wrote in <slrnn36vmp....@jaja.besserwisser.org>:

> Den 2015-10-30 skrev Dan Bissonnette <dangbis...@gmail.com>:
>
>> "I don't need another fucking charging device in my life. Micro-USB
>> will do nicely, thank you."
>
> No. Micro-USB is the idea of USB, taken several steps way, way too
> far along the line from "will break if trodden upon" to "will break at
> first usage."
>
> It is my (so far) all-time "winner" for "shittiest connector known
> to humanity".

Really? Even when compared to SATA connectors, which IME are ready to jump off
at the first hint that an opportunity may be in the offing?

> Besides, it's impossible to tell which way it goes. (but that of course
> is shared with all USB)

Amen. Has anyone else noticed that P(correct orientation first time) for a
USB-A connector appears to be << 50%?

> The fruity thingamabobs are much, much better, especially the magnetic
> ones. They, of course suck, as well, being hardware. But the microUSB
> deserves to reside in its own class of mega-shit.

Amen. Both the male and the female microUSB.

--
I seem to have my life in reverse. When I was a wee'un, it seemed perfectly
normal that one could pick up the phone and speak to anybody else in the
world who also has a phone. Now I'm older and more experienced, I'm amazed
that this could possibly work. -- Peter Corlett, in the Monastery

[Julian Macassey]

On Fri, 30 Oct 2015 14:27:33 +0000 (UTC), Mans Nilsson
<mans...@besserwisser.org> wrote:
> No. Micro-USB is the idea of USB, taken several steps way, way too
> far along the line from "will break if trodden upon" to "will break at
> first usage."
>
> It is my (so far) all-time "winner" for "shittiest connector known
> to humanity".

I would put the 5 pind DIN audio connector in that
competition.

>
> Besides, it's impossible to tell which way it goes. (but that of course
> is shared with all USB)

This feature was probably pioneered by the DIN audio
connector.

--
Hitler, no doubt, will soon disappear, but only at the expense of
strengthening (a) Stalin, (b) the Anglo-American millionaires and (c) all
sorts of petty fuhrers° of the type of de Gaulle. - George Orwell, 1944

[Peter Corlett]

Alexander Schreiber <a...@usenet.thangorodrim.de> wrote:
[...]

> Like, for example, Fbal? Their ads for some of their smartphones
> included people taking photos underwater with them to show off their
> water resistance and then Fbal told people in effect "If you actually do
> that, bye bye warranty".

That'd be such a slam-dunk in our legal system that any sensible vendor
would change their stance on receipt of a letter headed "LETTER BEFORE
LEGAL ACTION" demanding the purchase price back plus any other
out-of-pocket costs.

The less-sensible vendors get given a bit of a tour of the Small Claims
Track and are taught what a County Court Judgement is, especially when
they next try to get credit from a supplier.

[Peter Corlett]

mikea <mi...@mikea.ath.cx> wrote:
> Mans Nilsson <mans...@besserwisser.org> wrote:
[...]

>> It is my (so far) all-time "winner" for "shittiest connector known to
>> humanity".

> Really? Even when compared to SATA connectors, which IME are ready to
> jump off at the first hint that an opportunity may be in the offing?

America keeps suffering from NIH syndrome and tends to shun clearly better
global standards such as PAL, GSM, 240V mains, the metric system, and so
on, but in this case it dodged the SCART-shaped bullet.

SCART plugs consist of 21 vertically-oriented pins in a flimsy plastic
shell, to which a thick boa-constrictor of a cable is attached to carry
all of those signals. They are theoretically friction-held by the socket,
but the pin orientation encourages it to hang low in the socket under the
weight of the cable, making the top row of pins intermittent. This makes
for Fun! and Excitement! because the top row is mostly the ground signals.
Yep, despite a surfeit of pins, it still uses unbalanced signalling.

You will be unsurprised to hear that this clusterfsck was designed by a
French committee.

[Garrett Wollman]

In article <n104da$be3$1...@vserver-5.cabal.org.uk>,

Peter Corlett <ab...@mooli.org.uk> wrote:

>America keeps suffering from NIH syndrome and tends to shun clearly better
>global standards such as PAL, GSM, 240V mains, the metric system, and so
>on, but in this case it dodged the SCART-shaped bullet.

Actually, other than latecomer PAL, we have all of these. Except
SCART, thankfully. Not that RCA connectors are any better for video
signals! (Pro analog video gear always used BNC.)

You could make the argument for digital broadcasting standards, where
the FCC chose systems that are, if not clearly inferior, at least
arguably so, but that's water under the bridge, and soon to be
irrelevant anyway.

-GAWollman
--
Garrett A. Wollman | What intellectual phenomenon can be older, or more oft
wol...@bimajority.org| repeated, than the story of a large research program
Opinions not shared by| that impaled itself upon a false central assumption
my employers. | accepted by all practitioners? - S.J. Gould, 1993

[Peter H. Coffin]

On Thu, 29 Oct 2015 17:15:01 -0400, Dan Bissonnette wrote:
> I have yet to see an Apple iWatch in the wild. And *all* of my friends
> and cow-orkers are techie-types.

Heh. There's... two Apples and three Pebbles among "Friday down the pub"
group. And only one of 'em even works for Apple.

--
A: Maybe because some people are too annoyed by top-posting.
Q: Why do I not get an answer to my question(s)?
A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?

[Mans Nilsson]

Den 2015-10-30 skrev mikea <mi...@mikea.ath.cx>:
> Mans Nilsson <mans...@besserwisser.org> wrote in <slrnn36vmp....@jaja.besserwisser.org>:

>> It is my (so far) all-time "winner" for "shittiest connector known
>> to humanity".
>
> Really? Even when compared to SATA connectors, which IME are ready to jump off
> at the first hint that an opportunity may be in the offing?

The SATA is designed to go inside a computer. The micro-USB is concieved
(I refuse to call it "designed", because the accidental assemblage of parts
that is the micro-USB does not deserve to be called a "design") to be used
on pocketed devices and be mated and unmated by lusers. Lusers, mating. Never
came anything good out of that. Come to think of it. Probably should call
the process "shoved and yanked" rather than something implying that a
manual was a/ read and b/ understood.

So, yes, the SATA sucks, but is scoped differently.

--
Måns Nilsson primary/secondary/besserwisser/machina
MN-1334-RIPE +46 705 989668

My NOSE is NUMB!

[Mans Nilsson]

Den 2015-10-30 skrev Peter Corlett <ab...@mooli.org.uk>:
> mikea <mi...@mikea.ath.cx> wrote:
>> Mans Nilsson <mans...@besserwisser.org> wrote:
> [...]
>>> It is my (so far) all-time "winner" for "shittiest connector known to
>>> humanity".

> America keeps suffering from NIH syndrome and tends to shun clearly better
> global standards such as PAL, GSM, 240V mains, the metric system, and so
> on, but in this case it dodged the SCART-shaped bullet.

Lucky them. OTOH, it is mostly obsolete now. Still, it is large enough
that it can be repaired.

--
Måns Nilsson primary/secondary/besserwisser/machina
MN-1334-RIPE +46 705 989668

If I am elected no one will ever have to do their laundry again!

[Mans Nilsson]

Den 2015-10-30 skrev Julian Macassey <jul...@tele.com>:
> On Fri, 30 Oct 2015 14:27:33 +0000 (UTC), Mans Nilsson
><mans...@besserwisser.org> wrote:
>> No. Micro-USB is the idea of USB, taken several steps way, way too
>> far along the line from "will break if trodden upon" to "will break at
>> first usage."
>>
>> It is my (so far) all-time "winner" for "shittiest connector known
>> to humanity".
>
> I would put the 5 pind DIN audio connector in that
> competition.

I would not. It actually is manageable. Not as good as XLRen from
a reputable manufacturer but it clearly surpasses the 3,5mm stereo
phone plug.

>> Besides, it's impossible to tell which way it goes. (but that of course
>> is shared with all USB)
>
> This feature was probably pioneered by the DIN audio
> connector.

No, the Tuchel headset connector for TV cameras.

http://www.canford.co.uk/Products/Archive/43-302_TUCHEL-CAMERA-HEADSET-Panel-socket

For bonus points, it is always manufactured in very brittle phenolic.

Oh, and I work in the broadcast industry, so this borders on UI.

--
Måns Nilsson primary/secondary/besserwisser/machina
MN-1334-RIPE +46 705 989668

I feel like I'm in a Toilet Bowl with a thumbtack in my forehead!!

[Alan J. Wylie]

Julian Macassey <jul...@tele.com> writes:

> I would put the 5 pind DIN audio connector in that competition.

But Acorn used it for networking. Rpbarg.

--
Alan J. Wylie http://www.wylie.me.uk/

Dance like no-one's watching.
Encrypt like everyone is.

[Dan Bissonnette]

In article <n0vhuq$p8o$1...@linode.xcski.com>, ptomblin...@xcski.com
says...

>
> In a previous article, Dan Bissonnette <dangbis...@gmail.com> said:
> >What always keeps me away from Apple devices is neatly summed up as:
> >
> >"I don't need another fucking charging device in my life. Micro-USB
> >will do nicely, thank you."
>
> Anker makes a really nice 5 port charging hub that can charge tablets (iPads)
> as fast as an Apple charger. I have two Lightning cables and two micro-USB
> cables and a mini-USB cable hanging out of mine. The Forerunner cradle hangs
> out of the USB3 hub on my laptop because it frequently thinks it needs to
> install updates.

I have a two-port micro-USB charger in my den for home use (LG phone and
tablet). I have a micro-USB charger in my office for $ork use.

And of course, there's every other micro-USB charger on Planet Earth,
all of which will serve.

That's it. That's all. Period. Full stop.

(Oh, and I keep a micro-USB charger in my backpack. Never really use
it, but heck, it was only $9.00.)

[Dan Bissonnette]

In article <slrnn36vmp....@jaja.besserwisser.org>,
mans...@besserwisser.org says...

> Besides, it's impossible to tell which way it goes. (but that of course
> is shared with all USB)

Well, IMO it's axiomatic that the moron who invented the USB connector -
and failed to make it symmetrical - should have been killed twice.

[Ino]

On 2015-10-30, Gary Barnes <g...@adminspotting.org> wrote:
> (...)
> [0] For some reason, 1967 Land Rovers don't have native Bluetooth
> integration.

Good grief man, those... errr... things can barely hold onto their fluids let
alone do anything that deals with mild precision.

Come to think of it - it's probably a good thing Landrover didn't
invent BT...

Ino

--
I have seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire
off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams glitter in the dark
near the Tannhauser Gate. All those moments will be lost in time,
like tears in rain. Time to die.

[Mike Causer]

On Mon, 26 Oct 2015 10:58:46 -0400
Dan Bissonnette <dangbis...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Full Disclosure: I haven't. Still wearing my old Seiko.

Hell no! Today I wore a mid-90s Seiko because it was raining [1]. If
it ain't raining it's either my (owned from new) 1970 manual-wind Urhre
Pneeren, or my 1982 (also owned from new, but quartz) Bzrtn Frnznfgre.

Both set to the second from the 'Bot-fone, but sadly the Urhre will be
20 seconds out the next day. Due for a service I think. Bzrtn drifts
only about 2 seconds a week, but it's just come back from Bzrtn in
Fjvgmreynaq for a service costing more than its current worth and
about 4 times its inflation adjusted purchase price.


[1] In fact I like that watch enough to maybe retire it from rainy
day duties. Somewhere (SM) there's a 20 quid retro-style Casio, but
where?


Mike

[Julian Macassey]

On Fri, 30 Oct 2015 20:20:34 +0000, Alan J. Wylie <al...@wylie.me.uk> wrote:
> Julian Macassey <jul...@tele.com> writes:
>
>> I would put the 5 pind DIN audio connector in that competition.
>
> But Acorn used it for networking. Rpbarg.

No doubt chosen for cost rather than function and
reliability.



--
"We tend to forget. Ours is a society where things are like instant, so
therefore, history almost is like so far back it doesn't count."
- GW Bush, 3/29/06

[Julian Macassey]

On Fri, 30 Oct 2015 20:37:33 +0000 (UTC), Gary Barnes
<g...@adminspotting.org> wrote:
> [0] For some reason, 1967 Land Rovers don't have native Bluetooth
> integration.

Which helps with long term reliability and future spare
parts availability.

--
I think sometimes my party gets all caught up in the second amendment, which is
fine, but we don’t protect the fourth amendment enough.” Sen Rand Paul 26/5/15

[Julian Macassey]

On Sat, 31 Oct 2015 10:01:25 +0000, Mike Causer
<m.r.c...@goglemail.com> wrote:
>
> Both set to the second from the 'Bot-fone, but sadly the Urhre will be
> 20 seconds out the next day. Due for a service I think. Bzrtn drifts
> only about 2 seconds a week, but it's just come back from Bzrtn in
> Fjvgmreynaq for a service costing more than its current worth and
> about 4 times its inflation adjusted purchase price.
>

Wrist watches, once an essential have become jewellry and
are priced accordingly.


--
"We can’t be successful unless we lie to customers.” Larry
Ellison to Bruce Scott.

[Alexander Schreiber]

Peter Corlett <ab...@mooli.org.uk> wrote:
> Alexander Schreiber <a...@usenet.thangorodrim.de> wrote:
> [...]
>> Like, for example, Fbal? Their ads for some of their smartphones
>> included people taking photos underwater with them to show off their
>> water resistance and then Fbal told people in effect "If you actually do
>> that, bye bye warranty".
>
> That'd be such a slam-dunk in our legal system that any sensible vendor
> would change their stance on receipt of a letter headed "LETTER BEFORE
> LEGAL ACTION" demanding the purchase price back plus any other
> out-of-pocket costs.

Oh, they are not complete idiots and their legal department isn't
entirely on crack. They didn't word it exactly that way and used
plenty of weasel wording about water resistance not being water proof
(as if most people would be able to define the difference) and it being
tested in static, inactive conditions (screen off, no button pressing),
yada yada. But the above is basically the TLDR.

Kind regards,
Alex.
--
"Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls and
looks like work." -- Thomas A. Edison

[Peter Corlett]

Julian Macassey <jul...@tele.com> wrote:
> Alan J. Wylie <al...@wylie.me.uk> wrote:

[...]

>> But Acorn used it for networking. Rpbarg.
> No doubt chosen for cost rather than function and reliability.

That'd be the "Rpb" bit, yes. It'd be from when Chris Curry had his
Uncle Clive moment in that it was one too many corners cut to drive
the price down.

There were some other exciting design SNAFUs in the BBC Micro, but it
was perhaps least-worst of the units in the market -- as one would
hope for a machine that cost £400 when everything else was nearer
£100-200.

[Peter Corlett]

Alexander Schreiber <a...@usenet.thangorodrim.de> wrote:
> Peter Corlett <ab...@mooli.org.uk> wrote:
>> Alexander Schreiber <a...@usenet.thangorodrim.de> wrote:
>> [...]
>>> Like, for example, Fbal? Their ads for some of their smartphones included
>>> people taking photos underwater with them to show off their water
>>> resistance and then Fbal told people in effect "If you actually do that,
>>> bye bye warranty".

>> That'd be such a slam-dunk in our legal system that any sensible vendor
>> would change their stance on receipt of a letter headed "LETTER BEFORE
>> LEGAL ACTION" demanding the purchase price back plus any other
>> out-of-pocket costs.

> Oh, they are not complete idiots and their legal department isn't entirely
> on crack. They didn't word it exactly that way and used plenty of weasel
> wording about water resistance not being water proof (as if most people
> would be able to define the difference) and it being tested in static,
> inactive conditions (screen off, no button pressing), yada yada. But the
> above is basically the TLDR.

It wouldn't be a claim under the warranty, it would be a claim to enforce
statutory rights under the Sale of Goods Act for the goods being Not As
Described and/or Not Fit For Purpose. Any disclaimers in the warranty or other
bumph only provided after purchase are utterly moot.

[Peter Corlett]

Ino <chi...@wziejxwoa.jap> wrote:
[...]

> Come to think of it - it's probably a good thing Landrover didn't invent
> BT...

Oh, I dunno. Looking at the slow and unreliable broadband I get despite
living in central London, it's quite easy to conclude that British Telecom
also use Lucas electrics.

One of the things I'm looking forward to on my next home move is to call up
KF4NYY and go "yeah, just give us the half-gigabit for the same price we
were paying for a thousandth of the speed from NNVFC."

[Mike Causer]

On Sat, 31 Oct 2015 15:32:50 -0000 (UTC)
Julian Macassey <jul...@tele.com> wrote:

> Wrist watches, once an essential have become jewellry and
> are priced accordingly.

And have become large and, to my eyes, ugly.

I like 'em small but prefectly formed.


Mike

[Mike Causer]

On Sat, 31 Oct 2015 12:40:10 -0400
ab...@leftmind.net (AdB) wrote:

> They wouldn't have, though. They'd have instead uncapped an
> unspeakable horror: they'd have used Lucas "Prince Of Darkness"
> Bluetooth.

Lucas Group did know how to build reliable kit. Lucas Aerospace stuff
was good. What they couldn't do was make reliable kit at the price the
auto manufacturers were prepared to pay. And neither could anyone else
at the time. Think of Autolite and Magneti Marelli also of the 60s.

Full disclosure: I worked for part of the Lucas Group at Girling.
Where I redesigned part of the brakes of the Land-Rover to the simple
instruction "Make them cheaper." After 1967.


Mike

[mrob...@att.net]

Dan Bissonnette <dangbis...@gmail.com> wrote:
> In article <slrnn36vmp....@jaja.besserwisser.org>,
> mans...@besserwisser.org says...
>
>> Besides, it's impossible to tell which way it goes. (but that of
>> course is shared with all USB)
>
> Well, IMO it's axiomatic that the moron who invented the USB
> connector - and failed to make it symmetrical - should have been
> killed twice.

The version I've heard is that at his or her funeral, the casket will
initially be lowered into the grave with its lid down, then removed
from the grave, turned to be lid up, and then put in the grave again.

Matt Roberds

[Dan Bissonnette]

In article <20151031100125.2a81fa32@amaterasu>, m.r.c...@goglemail.com
says...

> > Full Disclosure: I haven't. Still wearing my old Seiko.
>
> Hell no! Today I wore a mid-90s Seiko because it was raining [1]. If
> it ain't raining it's either my (owned from new) 1970 manual-wind Urhre
> Pneeren, or my 1982 (also owned from new, but quartz) Bzrtn Frnznfgre.
>
> Both set to the second from the 'Bot-fone, but sadly the Urhre will be
> 20 seconds out the next day. Due for a service I think. Bzrtn drifts
> only about 2 seconds a week, but it's just come back from Bzrtn in
> Fjvgmreynaq for a service costing more than its current worth and
> about 4 times its inflation adjusted purchase price.
>
>
> [1] In fact I like that watch enough to maybe retire it from rainy
> day duties. Somewhere (SM) there's a 20 quid retro-style Casio, but
> where?

My father-in-law is a staunch mechanical watch guy. He's got a 1940s
Rolex that the "Pawn Stars" guys would offer him $5,000 for. Among
other watches he's collected.

I don't remotely go that far, but there's kind of a lure to a regular,
non-zippimagic watch.

[Richard Bos]

Alexander Schreiber <a...@usenet.thangorodrim.de> wrote:

> Peter Corlett <ab...@mooli.org.uk> wrote:
> > Alexander Schreiber <a...@usenet.thangorodrim.de> wrote:
> > [...]
> >> Like, for example, Fbal? Their ads for some of their smartphones
> >> included people taking photos underwater with them to show off their
> >> water resistance and then Fbal told people in effect "If you actually do
> >> that, bye bye warranty".
> >
> > That'd be such a slam-dunk in our legal system that any sensible vendor
> > would change their stance on receipt of a letter headed "LETTER BEFORE
> > LEGAL ACTION" demanding the purchase price back plus any other
> > out-of-pocket costs.
>
> Oh, they are not complete idiots and their legal department isn't
> entirely on crack. They didn't word it exactly that way and used
> plenty of weasel wording about water resistance not being water proof
> (as if most people would be able to define the difference) and it being
> tested in static, inactive conditions (screen off, no button pressing),
> yada yada. But the above is basically the TLDR.

Not good enough in Europe, I'm afraid.

There go the UKIP claims that the EU buggered up all rights of English
citizens.

Richard

[Richard Bos]

"Ivan D. Reid" <Ivan...@ivan.fsnet.co.uk> wrote:

> On Thu, 29 Oct 2015 17:15:01 -0400, Dan Bissonnette <dangbis...@gmail.com>

>
> > I have yet to see an Apple iWatch in the wild. And *all* of my friends
> > and cow-orkers are techie-types.
>

> I saw a Chinese student pay for his purchases (two-quid odd) by
> using a tap-to-pay watch in the local (Uxbridge) Tesco on Wednesday night.
> I presume it was an i-thingy. A colleague's son apparently revels in
> using his to pay for drinks in pubs. The Telegraph's Alex cartoon even
> featured it a little while ago:
> http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/alex/?cartoon=11925584&cc=11902977

Check book? Mont Blanc!? Jeez, wannabe. Ok, so that's _exactly_ a
Jobsslave - well observed, Alex. And yes, your cow-orker's
crotchdingleberry is, well, /ut scriptum/. But still... cash, anyone?
Cold, hard cash?

Richard

[Richard Bos]

Gary Barnes <g...@adminspotting.org> wrote:

> On Fri, 30 Oct 2015 11:26:57 -0500, Peter H. Coffin

> : Heh. There's... two Apples and three Pebbles among "Friday down the pub"
> : group.

*Wince*

> Yeah, pebble rocks for me (pun intended).
>
> I can be driving with a Bluetooth headset on, and by looking at my wrist

Do the people coming the other way a favour... just don't? Thanks on
behalf of the people you didn't kill.

> Also while driving or in polite company I can screen emails and SMS
> messages.

That's not what I'd call polite. It's what I'd call common, nowadays,
and that in more ways than one.

Richard

[Richard Bos]

Wojciech Derechowski <wdd...@um5000.mystora.com> wrote:

> Apple Suppository

You repeat yourself.

Richard

[Richard Bos]

Mans Nilsson <mans...@besserwisser.org> wrote:

> Probably should call the process "shoved and yanked" rather than
> something implying that a manual was a/ read and b/ understood.

Or, to be fair to both the lusers _and_ the vendors, c/ provided.

Richard

[Ivan D. Reid]

On Sun, 01 Nov 2015 16:58:07 GMT, Richard Bos <ral...@xs4all.nl>
wrote in <563643f0...@news.xs4all.nl>:

Something tells me you don't follow the Alex cartoons regularly, Richard.

--
Ivan Reid, School of Engineering & Design, _____________ CMS Collaboration,
Brunel University. Ivan.Reid@[brunel.ac.uk|cern.ch] Room 40-1-B12, CERN
KotPT -- "for stupidity above and beyond the call of duty".

[Richard Bos]

"Ivan D. Reid" <Ivan...@ivan.fsnet.co.uk> wrote:

> On Sun, 01 Nov 2015 16:58:07 GMT, Richard Bos <ral...@xs4all.nl>

> > "Ivan D. Reid" <Ivan...@ivan.fsnet.co.uk> wrote:
>
> >> I saw a Chinese student pay for his purchases (two-quid odd) by
> >> using a tap-to-pay watch in the local (Uxbridge) Tesco on Wednesday night.
> >> I presume it was an i-thingy. A colleague's son apparently revels in
> >> using his to pay for drinks in pubs. The Telegraph's Alex cartoon even
> >> featured it a little while ago:
> >> http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/alex/?cartoon=11925584&cc=11902977
>
> > Check book? Mont Blanc!? Jeez, wannabe. Ok, so that's _exactly_ a
> > Jobsslave - well observed, Alex. And yes, your cow-orker's
> > crotchdingleberry is, well, /ut scriptum/. But still... cash, anyone?
> > Cold, hard cash?
>
> Something tells me you don't follow the Alex cartoons regularly, Richard.

I don't read the Torygraph, no. Nevertheless, taken on its own, this is
an accurate depiction of both w^hbankers _and_ MacJunks.

Richard

[Chloe]

On Sun, 01 Nov 2015 17:00:56 GMT, Richard Bos <ral...@xs4all.nl> wrote:
> Gary Barnes <g...@adminspotting.org> wrote:
>
>> Also while driving or in polite company I can screen emails and SMS
>> messages.
>
> That's not what I'd call polite. It's what I'd call common, nowadays,
> and that in more ways than one.

When driving, I screen emails and SMS easily.
If you send me an email or SMS, you've already shown the issue isn't
important and can wait till I get to my destination.

Someone did SMS me a fault when I was passing Scunthorpe.. I replyed from
Berwick 4 hours later.


Chloe

[Wojciech Derechowski]

Some time ago I took a 6U 600mm cabinet fitting it with a fanless linux
machine and a decent half rack space DSD DAC on a shelf, plus a CD player
and a relatively cheap mixer and amplifier to accomodate the headphones
I collected over the years (just two pairs). All this sucks much less
than anything they were able to offer because of the software one can
use, which BTW is free.

--
WD

Who is Entscheidungs and what is his problem?

[Julian Macassey]

On Mon, 2 Nov 2015 08:13:31 +0000 (UTC), Gary Barnes
<g...@adminspotting.org> wrote:
>
> Nagios can't talk.

One of its many annoyances.
>
> Some of us are paid to respond to emails and SMS messages.

Not paid enough, or valued enough alas.

[Peter Corlett]

Wojciech Derechowski <wdd...@wp.pl> wrote:
[...]

> Some time ago I took a 6U 600mm cabinet fitting it with a fanless
> linux machine and a decent half rack space DSD DAC on a shelf, plus
> a CD player and a relatively cheap mixer and amplifier to accomodate
> the headphones I collected over the years (just two pairs). All this
> sucks much less than anything they were able to offer because of the
> software one can use, which BTW is free.

I bet dragging that lot along gives you a fair workout when going for
a jog.

[Richard Bos]

Dan Bissonnette <dangbis...@gmail.com> wrote:

> mans...@besserwisser.org says...
>
> > Besides, it's impossible to tell which way it goes. (but that of course
> > is shared with all USB)
>
> Well, IMO it's axiomatic that the moron who invented the USB connector -
> and failed to make it symmetrical - should have been killed twice.

Three times. The first time never works, the second time doesn't work
either, and then you discover that you had it right the first time and
for some reason you've had to turn it through 360 degrees to make it
fit.
Which proves that a USB connector is one of those sub-atomic particles
with more-than-usual spin - hadrons, IIRC.

Richard

[Richard Bos]

Julian Macassey <jul...@tele.com> wrote:

> On Fri, 30 Oct 2015 14:27:33 +0000 (UTC), Mans Nilsson

> > No. Micro-USB is the idea of USB, taken several steps way, way too
> > far along the line from "will break if trodden upon" to "will break at
> > first usage."
> >
> > It is my (so far) all-time "winner" for "shittiest connector known
> > to humanity".

>
> I would put the 5 pind DIN audio connector in that competition.

Nah. Solid, and works.

> > Besides, it's impossible to tell which way it goes. (but that of course
> > is shared with all USB)
>

> This feature was probably pioneered by the DIN audio connector.

A five-pin DIN should have a visible indentation on one end of the
sheath, and the socket should have an equally visible notch.

Richard

[Richard Bos]

Chronos <use...@chronos.org.uk> wrote:

> ral...@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) wrote:
>
> > > I would put the 5 pind DIN audio connector in that
> > > competition.
> >
> > Nah. Solid, and works.
>

> Until you come across the cheap Tandy ones

Ah, well, that's your problem right there. Don't blame the DIN design
for the Lucas execution.

Richard

[David DeLaney]

On 2015-11-02, Richard Bos <ral...@xs4all.nl> wrote:
> Three times. The first time never works, the second time doesn't work
> either, and then you discover that you had it right the first time and
> for some reason you've had to turn it through 360 degrees to make it fit.

> Which proves that a USB connector is one of those sub-atomic particles
> with more-than-usual spin - hadrons, IIRC.

Half-integral spin, actually; fermions. The which matter's made of (bosons are,
in general, the particles that carry forces).

(If this is UI, the purple light is probably already going off.)

Dave

ps: fermions CAN have more-than-usual spin - the omega-minus has spin 3/2 - but
most of them are just spin 1/2
--
\/David DeLaney posting thru EarthLink - "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
http://gatekeeper.vic.com/~dbd/ -net.legends/Magic / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.

[Alexander Schreiber]

Gary Barnes <g...@adminspotting.org> wrote:
> On Sun, 1 Nov 2015 21:37:05 +0000, Chloe
><Ch...@Meteor.igloo.snowfields.net> wrote:

>: On Sun, 01 Nov 2015 17:00:56 GMT, Richard Bos <ral...@xs4all.nl> wrote:
>: > Gary Barnes <g...@adminspotting.org> wrote:
>: >> Also while driving or in polite company I can screen emails and SMS
>: >> messages.
>: >
>: > That's not what I'd call polite. It's what I'd call common, nowadays,
>: > and that in more ways than one.
>:
>: When driving, I screen emails and SMS easily.
>: If you send me an email or SMS, you've already shown the issue isn't
>: important and can wait till I get to my destination.
>

> Nagios can't talk.

One can, apply a TTS system that can make phone calls. That has been done
and works surprisingly well for the purpose of alerting you to the fact
that *mumble* *mumble* shit is broken.

> Some of us are paid to respond to emails and SMS messages.

Indeed.

[mikea]

Chronos <use...@chronos.org.uk> wrote in <20151102153...@chronos.eternal-september.org>:

> On Mon, 02 Nov 2015 15:17:35 GMT
> ral...@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) wrote:
>
>> Chronos <use...@chronos.org.uk> wrote:
>>
>> > ral...@xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) wrote:
>> >

>> [...]

>> > >
>> > > Nah. Solid, and works.
>> >
>> > Until you come across the cheap Tandy ones
>>
>> Ah, well, that's your problem right there. Don't blame the DIN design
>> for the Lucas execution.
>

> Where's the fun in that? I'd have to resurrect the corpse of gjvank
> cngpu pnoyrf to really have a rant and I don't particularly want to give
> anyone nightmares. Those are best left buried in the past.
>
> I still have some of those connectors. I keep them for when I'm putting
> off fitting an N type due to can't-be-arsedness. One look and I know
> Paul Neill's finest is going to be a doddle after all.

They work Very Nicely Indeed as a balanced antenna connector for an R-390/URR
or R-390A/URR receiver. This isn't computer-style UI, though both radios do
have nice (mechanical) digital displays.

--
There are two reasons why diving is so popular in Cairns.
The other one is because, during summer, it's less humid underwater.
-- David Cameron Staples

[mikea]

Richard Bos <ral...@xs4all.nl> wrote in <563645c5...@news.xs4all.nl>:

> Wojciech Derechowski <wdd...@um5000.mystora.com> wrote:
>
>> Apple Suppository
>
> You repeat yourself.

At least it's an Apple, not a Radish. See: "rafanizou".

--
But never forget that the original Dilbert strips were nature
studies.
-- Shmuel Metz

[mikea]

Chronos <use...@chronos.org.uk> wrote in <20151102171...@chronos.eternal-september.org>:

> On Mon, 2 Nov 2015 10:03:28 -0600
> mikea <mi...@mikea.ath.cx> wrote:
>
>> They work Very Nicely Indeed as a balanced antenna connector for an
>> R-390/URR or R-390A/URR receiver. This isn't computer-style UI,
>> though both radios do have nice (mechanical) digital displays.
>

> There's some very complex gearing in those. I'm reminded of the Mad
> Hatter's "I see what's wrong with it! This watch is full of wheels!"
>
> My own slightly insane hat is off to anyone restoring or aligning one.

They are *VERY* nice radios, in their frequency range: MF, HF, and a teensy
bit of what might be called VHF by the overly-pedantic. The really nice thing
about them is that their front ends don't tend to die from static charges,
where more "modern" radios (e.g., Watkins-Johnson, CEI, BAE) with sand-state
front ends were found to die very quickly in the various Sandboxes we seem
to have people in. Something about static charges from blowing sand punching
through MOSFETs and JFETs as fast as they were installed.

--
Just because I'm not doing anything, doesn't mean I have nothing to do!
-- Ellen Winnie (SCA: Ellen L. Fraser), in rec.org.sca

[Mike Causer]

On Mon, 2 Nov 2015 16:39:31 +0000
Michel <ab...@rubberchicken.nl> wrote:

> Is that small relative to the latest crop of 50+mm daftness, or
> small compared to say the average size across the last century

I'm far from being an expert. I only started to take an interest in
watches earlier this year after comments made while I was wearing my
Urhre. AFAICT pre WWII watches were around 32mm dia, then got to around
36mm by the sixties. Things with rotating bezels would be a bit bigger,
around 40-42mm for Breitling and Autavia or Speedmaster, and the dive
watches of course.

> Mine's a 39mm Seiko, by the way. I wouldn't go so far as to call
> it small, but opinions on that seem to vary.

My '90s Seiko chronograph is 38mm, the '60s Urhre chrono 36mm, and my
early '80s Bzrtn non-crono is 33x31mm. Probably a ladies watch size
today.


Mike

[Mike Causer]

On Sun, 1 Nov 2015 09:01:17 -0500
Dan Bissonnette <dangbis...@gmail.com> wrote:

> My father-in-law is a staunch mechanical watch guy. He's got a 1940s
> Rolex that the "Pawn Stars" guys would offer him $5,000 for. Among
> other watches he's collected.

I've seen just one Pawn Stars video. Any interesting watch, with a bit
of research into the right marketplace and a good description, would get
at least twice their offer. But not on the spot, which is how they make
their money in Las Vegas.


Mike

[Mike Causer]

On 27 Oct 2015 20:54:40 GMT
Lawns 'R' Us <nob...@nowhere.example.com> wrote:

> And I just remembered the number one reason why I'd not be replacing
> the 910XT with an Apple Watch: the Apple Watch doesn't do ANT+. Which
> basically turns my power meter (on my bicycle) into a $US1300 set of
> pedals.

Reckoning my max continuous power output on my 5 working, and 5 in the
workshop (will they ever re-emerge?) bikes is about 90W none of them
have a power meter.

But I do applaud someone who can make good use of one.


Mike

[Richard Bos]

mikea <mi...@mikea.ath.cx> wrote:

> Richard Bos <ral...@xs4all.nl> wrote in <563645c5...@news.xs4all.nl>:
> > Wojciech Derechowski <wdd...@um5000.mystora.com> wrote:
> >
> >> Apple Suppository
> >
> > You repeat yourself.
>
> At least it's an Apple, not a Radish. See: "rafanizou".

Either option is a pain in the arse.

Richard

[Chloe]

On Mon, 2 Nov 2015 08:13:31 +0000 (UTC), Gary Barnes
<g...@adminspotting.org> wrote:
>
> Nagios can't talk.
>

> Some of us are paid to respond to emails and SMS messages.
>

I'm paid to respond to emails and sms.
I'm not paid enough to even check them on a watch when driving.

I don't think anyone would pay what I would charge for that.

If I'm driving, that is the only thing I'm doing.

Chloe
(just returned from a 300 mile round trip in the fog, watching the idiots
with no lights, or even worse, DRL only, doing 80 in ~50metre vis)

[Peter Corlett]

mikea <mi...@mikea.ath.cx> wrote:
[...]

> At least it's an Apple, not a Radish. See: "rafanizou".

And various tasteless discussions on that general topic is how I ended
up with this domain name (and also the name of my company). Moolis are
of course a step up from the dismal purple spheres that add scant
excitement to a British Salad.

I also rather like that the Latin name and genus is "raphanus", which
probably means I'm just about to waste money on registering yet
another gag domain.

[David Scheidt]

Chronos <use...@chronos.org.uk> wrote:

:Of course, all of these issues pale into insignificance when you come
:across the most frustrating connector in the world: That damned two pin
:affair on the back of a car alternator for ignition and lamp. It can
:only ever be connected with the alternator in place, there are coolant
:hoses in the way, it's oily, you're bent over the wing with your back
:on fire and it still takes 5 tries to get it the right way around by
:feel, assuming you're not trying to fit it to a fan vent hole...

You have a very narrow experience with frustrating connectors.
Alternator plugs don't even make the list of things under the hood of
a modern automobile.


--
sig 3

[Joe Zeff]

On Mon, 02 Nov 2015 19:17:31 -0500, AdB wrote:

> BTDT, back once when $JOB[-n] had a dress-up-for-Halloween thing going.
> One of my coworkers even jumped straight out of his chair when he
> noticed the Anthropomorphic Personification standing quietly in his
> office doorway.

And did you at least try to speak in all caps without quotation marks?

--
Joe Zeff -- The Guy With The Sideburns:
http://www.zeff.us http://www.lasfsinc.info
I just have a very broad definition of "normal."

[Chloe]

On Tue, 3 Nov 2015 09:38:21 +0000 (UTC), Roger Bell_West
<roger+a...@nospam.firedrake.org> wrote:

> On 2015-11-02, Chloe wrote:
>>(just returned from a 300 mile round trip in the fog, watching the idiots
>>with no lights, or even worse, DRL only, doing 80 in ~50metre vis)
>

> Hmm. In the cars I've owned, putting on the headlights in really thick
> fog changed the forward view from a grey mass with occasional lights
> in it to a uniform glowing white mass. May depend on the lights
> though.
>

I was runing with main lights (dipped), and front and rear fogs.

Now imagine EU DRLs, which are close to the brightness of mainbeam, and are
the only lights on. (Cheaper cars use side lights or front fogs on low power
for DRL, but most use super bright white LEDs).

They were turning the fog infront of me into a blinding mess, and they were
a lane over.

There's a lot of lusers on the roads.
They just get easier to spot in fog. (and snow, etc..)

Chloe

[Stoneshop]

Chronos wrote:

> cheap Tandy

Redundant wording detected.

--
// Rik Steenwinkel
// Zevenaar, Netherlands

[Julian Macassey]

On Tue, 3 Nov 2015 09:38:21 +0000 (UTC), Roger Bell_West
<roger+a...@nospam.firedrake.org> wrote:
> On 2015-11-02, Chloe wrote:

>>(just returned from a 300 mile round trip in the fog, watching the idiots
>>with no lights, or even worse, DRL only, doing 80 in ~50metre vis)
>

> Hmm. In the cars I've owned, putting on the headlights in really thick
> fog changed the forward view from a grey mass with occasional lights
> in it to a uniform glowing white mass. May depend on the lights
> though.

That's why some cars have fog lights. Many owners of cars
with fog lights think they are auxillary lights and drive around
with them on all the time.



--
"When I was little, I didn't know I was going to grow up in the Soviet
Union. But here we are." April Daniels, April 2015

[Lawns 'R' Us]

On 2015-10-31, Peter Corlett <ab...@mooli.org.uk> wrote:
> Alexander Schreiber <a...@usenet.thangorodrim.de> wrote:
>> Oh, they are not complete idiots and their legal department isn't entirely
>> on crack. They didn't word it exactly that way and used plenty of weasel
>> wording about water resistance not being water proof (as if most people
>> would be able to define the difference) and it being tested in static,
>> inactive conditions (screen off, no button pressing), yada yada. But the
>> above is basically the TLDR.
>
> It wouldn't be a claim under the warranty, it would be a claim to enforce
> statutory rights under the Sale of Goods Act for the goods being Not As
> Described and/or Not Fit For Purpose. Any disclaimers in the warranty or other
> bumph only provided after purchase are utterly moot.

Yup. Here in the Land Down Under, if you, the product vendor, provide
an advertisement showing your product being used underwater, then that
product had damn well better work underwater, or you will be up for
repair, replacement, or refund under the "goods not as described" or
"goods not fit for purpose" clause of the consumer law here. (Of
course, those that try taking it scuba diving to a depth of 50 metres
would have a harder time making such a claim, because the company
could reasonably argue that that falls outside of reasonable use, even
for something that could cope with regular swimming activities. No
scuba diver can reasonably assert that they don't understand how 30+
metre diving is different to <3 metres of swimming.)

Apple got stung with this when they brought out the third generation
iPad: they billed it as being capable of 4G mobile data service, but
it turned out that the particular frequencies it could communicate on
weren't being used for Australian 4G service. That prompted a Very
Stern Word from the ACCC, a great deal of backpedalling from Apple,
and the offer (from, and funded by, Apple) of an unconditional refund
within a certain period of time for those that had bought the iPad.

The assumption behind the period of time was that if you kept using it
beyond that period of time, you could safely be assumed to be okay
with continuing to use the iPad on 3G data service, especially since
Apple went out of their way to email those that had linked a
third-generation iPad to their Apple IDs.

There have also been companies stung when they tried to explicitly
disclaim their responsibilities for warranties by pointing the
purchaser back to the manufacturer, but that's another issue.

[Lawns 'R' Us]

On 2015-11-02, Mike Causer <m.r.c...@goglemail.com> wrote:
[Power meters on bicycles]

> But I do applaud someone who can make good use of one.

I don't know that I make good use of it, but it is providing some
useful data (stuff that I already pretty much knew, but it does
confirm it). I just have to learn how to make use of it to rectify the
issues that that data highlights.

ObRecovery: unq n gevnguyba ba gur jrrxraq. Ng bar cbvag, V jnf
geniryyvat bire 70 xcu ba gur ovplpyr. Jurrrrrrr!

[LP]

On 2015-11-02, Chronos <use...@chronos.org.uk> wrote:
>
> Of course, all of these issues pale into insignificance when you come
> across the most frustrating connector in the world

The most frustration I've had was a 48 pin amphenol connector, used on
some larger analogue lighting desks. Soldered the whole thing up and
then realised I'd forgotten to put the boot on the cable.

Desoldered the whole thing, re-prepped the cable, soldered it all up
again and then realised I still hadn't remembered to put the boot on
the cable.

3rd time round I cut the end off the cable, threaded the boot on it
and *then* desoldered the connector... and soldered the whole thing
up with an off-by-one error because the connector was too covered in
crap for me to accurately see where the start pin was.

There's probably a lesson in there somewhere

-Paul
--
http://paulseward.com

[LP]

On 2015-11-02, mikea <mi...@mikea.ath.cx> wrote:
> Richard Bos <ral...@xs4all.nl> wrote in <563645c5...@news.xs4all.nl>:
>
>> Wojciech Derechowski <wdd...@um5000.mystora.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Apple Suppository
>>
>> You repeat yourself.
>
> At least it's an Apple, not a Radish. See: "rafanizou".

See also stem ginger ginger and "figging" (although probably best not to
look that up at work)

-Paul
--
http://paulseward.com

[Peter H. Coffin]

On Wed, 4 Nov 2015 09:23:58 +0000 (UTC), Roger Bell_West wrote:
> On 2015-11-04, AdB wrote:
>>Indeed, recreational diving on air goes to a limit of about 40 metres
>>(130' in old-style) so those of us who have been deeper know we're a
>>niche market.
>
> The rule of thumb when I was diving in the late 1980s/early 1990s was
> that you should halve the static pressure test depth to get a
> reasonable real-world (dynamic pressure) depth.

Still true, for stuff explicitly and only marketed to divers. For stuff
that's marketed to the general public, you're probably better off
lopping off a zero and reading "m" as "ft". A watch that doesn't have a
dive computer in it that says "water proof 200 m" probably shouldn't be
taken below snorkle depth.

--
They got rid of it because they judged it more trouble than it was
worth. (And considering they'd gone to great lengths to minimize its
worth, I suppose they were right.)
-- J. D. Baldwin

[Peter Corlett]

Satya <sat...@satyaonline.cjb.net> wrote:
[...]
> The thing with going 80 (unit-less! Presumably one of the usual units apply,
> and for this purpose doesn't matter which one) in ~50 metre vis is that can
> easily change to doing 0 in 0 vis very quickly, of course. This is how we get
> 0/0 ejection seats.

The OP is in the UK, where miles are the conventional unit for distances. If
you would like to read this part of the Highway Code, you'll already have done
more than 90% of British drivers:

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/the-highway-code/general-rules-techniques-and-advice-for-all-drivers-and-riders-103-to-158#speedlimits

That is, there is no speed limit higher than 70mph. The de facto limit on
motorways is 80mph because there's safety in numbers and traffic police have
better things to do.

Lower down that page in Rule 126 it gives "typical stopping distances", and
lists 53m as the stopping distance when travelling at 50mph or 80km/h. The 80
here is a red herring, and of course the road lusers will have still been doing
80mph not 80km/h despite the fog. They'd only drop to 80km/h if the fog was so
thick they couldn't see the front of the car.

The stopping distances are also rounder in feet than in metres; this is because
the figures haven't been adjusted in decades despite the fact that there aren't
very many British-made cars left on the roads and so the brakes are no longer a
gentle suggestion that the car might like to slow down slightly before impact.

[Joe Zeff]

On Wed, 04 Nov 2015 14:56:51 +0000, Satya wrote:

> Apparently you're supposed to not turn on your headlights because glare.
> Fog-lights are meant for fog.

I remember reading a book many years ago by Bob Hope where he mentioned
seeing fog-lights in action for the first time, in London: he wrote that
he could see the fog much better.

--
Joe Zeff -- The Guy With The Sideburns:
http://www.zeff.us http://www.lasfsinc.info

If dark matter had been invented in an sf book, there’d be flame wars
about whether it’s handwavium or unobtainium.

[Chloe]

On Wed, 04 Nov 2015 18:01:38 GMT, Joe Zeff
<the.guy.with....@lasfsinc.info> wrote:
>
> I remember reading a book many years ago by Bob Hope where he mentioned
> seeing fog-lights in action for the first time, in London: he wrote that
> he could see the fog much better.
>

Well, in the UK "fog light" on it's own always means the rear fogs, which
are mandatory, so unless you're driving in reverse, you don't tend to see
much of the fog with them.

Worse fog I've driven in was in a small van (Renault Extra.. Terrible thing,
esp when you are over 6 foot, only thing I've driven where lifting my foot
off the pedal turned the wipers off with my knee..) which didn't have front
fogs, I found out when stopped that if I turned the main beam on, and changed
the angle of the lights to the steepest setting, I could see the light
bouncing between the (wet) road and the underside of the fog.

I didn't like driving in it before, and after that, I didn't find my
opinion had improved!

Chloe

[Chloe]

On Wed, 4 Nov 2015 14:56:51 -0000 (UTC), Satya
<sat...@satyaonline.cjb.net> wrote:

> On Mon, 2 Nov 2015 21:55:09 +0000, Chloe wrote:
>> (just returned from a 300 mile round trip in the fog, watching the idiots
>> with no lights, or even worse, DRL only, doing 80 in ~50metre vis)
>

> Apparently you're supposed to not turn on your headlights because glare.
> Fog-lights are meant for fog.
>

I've always been taught that unless it's really think, headlights on in dip,
and fogs on.
If you don't have some lights on, the fogs are interlocked to off anyway.

LED high power DRLs, on the other hand, you might as well have main beam on,
as the affect is the same glare-wise.

Although as I've been overtaken at 70mph on the M6 at night by cars still
running on DRLs, it does make for a very simple idiot filter.

> The thing with going 80 (unit-less! Presumably one of the usual units apply,
> and for this purpose doesn't matter which one) in ~50 metre vis is that can
> easily change to doing 0 in 0 vis very quickly, of course. This is how we get
> 0/0 ejection seats.
>

It was 80mph, but it might as well have been R17 for the conditions.

Chloe

[Maarten Wiltink]

"Peter Corlett" <ab...@mooli.org.uk> wrote in message
news:n136hj$f16$1...@vserver-5.cabal.org.uk...

[...]
> One of the things I'm looking forward to on my next home move is to
> call up KF4NYY ...

(Either 020-3 987 654 or 020-3 987 666, from memory. Easy numbers.)

...Are you moving across the ditch?

Tebrgwrf,
Maarten Wiltink

[Alexander Schreiber]

Peter H. Coffin <hel...@ninehells.com> wrote:
> On Wed, 4 Nov 2015 09:23:58 +0000 (UTC), Roger Bell_West wrote:
>> On 2015-11-04, AdB wrote:
>>>Indeed, recreational diving on air goes to a limit of about 40 metres
>>>(130' in old-style) so those of us who have been deeper know we're a
>>>niche market.
>>
>> The rule of thumb when I was diving in the late 1980s/early 1990s was
>> that you should halve the static pressure test depth to get a
>> reasonable real-world (dynamic pressure) depth.
>
> Still true, for stuff explicitly and only marketed to divers. For stuff
> that's marketed to the general public, you're probably better off
> lopping off a zero and reading "m" as "ft". A watch that doesn't have a
> dive computer in it that says "water proof 200 m" probably shouldn't be
> taken below snorkle depth.

And that is pretty much what the documentation for water resistant watches
tries to carefully, circumspectly convey, carefully not stating it directly.
IIRC the docs tend to say some version or other of:
- 50m water resist: ok for showering
- 100m water resist: ok for swimming
- 200m water resist: ok for snorkeling

Plus they tend to point towards the seals needing replacement every 5 years
if you want to keep them tight.

So I've been mentally doing the 'drop a zero and half what's left' approach
for trusting those watches to actual wet conditions.

[mikea]

Alexander Schreiber <a...@usenet.thangorodrim.de> wrote in <slrnn3nh1...@mordor.angband.thangorodrim.de>:

> IIRC the docs tend to say some version or other of:
> - 50m water resist: ok for showering
> - 100m water resist: ok for swimming
> - 200m water resist: ok for snorkeling
>
> Plus they tend to point towards the seals needing replacement every 5 years
> if you want to keep them tight.
>
> So I've been mentally doing the 'drop a zero and half what's left' approach
> for trusting those watches to actual wet conditions.

So, then all watches should be kept in a desiccator. The really vulnerable
ones should be kept in a desiccator inside a desiccator.

--
ALL CAPS TALK LEADS TO B1FF T4LK. B1FF T4LK LE4D$ 2 W4r37_t4LK.
W4r3Zt/\1k L34d$ 2 31337 \/\//\r37_ |>0o|) 7/\|_|<,
4|\||) 7|?3|23 7!?3 |)/\|2|( 51|)3 |_13$ -- CCooke, in the Monastery, 2001

[TimC]

On 2015-10-31, Alexander Schreiber (aka Bruce)
was almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea:

> Oh, they are not complete idiots and their legal department isn't
> entirely on crack. They didn't word it exactly that way and used
> plenty of weasel wording about water resistance not being water proof
> (as if most people would be able to define the difference)

You'll be pleased to know that the Yn Pebffr range of outdoor weather
sensors, including the tipping bucket rain gauge, are all weather
resistant.

It is true, my own rain gauge has successfully measured several metres
of rain since its installation. What they are not resistant to is
spiders' web. Maintenance, eh?

--
Thus sprach TimC
"It occurred to me this morning that many system design flaws
can be traced to unwarrantedly anthropomorphizing the user."
-- Steven...@dartmouth.edu, in rec.humor.funny

[Richard Bos]

LP <use...@lpbk.net> wrote:

> On 2015-11-02, Chronos <use...@chronos.org.uk> wrote:
> >
> > Of course, all of these issues pale into insignificance when you come
> > across the most frustrating connector in the world

> 3rd time round I cut the end off the cable, threaded the boot on it
> and *then* desoldered the connector... and soldered the whole thing
> up with an off-by-one error because the connector was too covered in
> crap for me to accurately see where the start pin was.

...and it was _still_ safer to plug in live than the Speccy edge
connector.

Richard

[Mans Nilsson]

Den 2015-11-06 skrev Michel <ab...@rubberchicken.nl>:
>
> Mine states waterproofness in bars[0] instead of meters. Applying
> the same rules I'm left with 1 bar, so that'll be just rain then...
>
> (Then again, it's not a diver, it's an alpinist.)
>
> [0] Indeed.

So best then, to get all the liquid recovery required in the first bar,
and refrain from further bar-hopping. Right?

--
Måns Nilsson primary/secondary/besserwisser/machina
MN-1334-RIPE +46 705 989668
Youth of today! Join me in a mass rally for traditional mental
attitudes!

[Peter H. Coffin]

On Fri, 06 Nov 2015 10:30:38 +0100, Gallian wrote:
> TimC <tcon...@rather.puzzling.no-spam-accepted-here.org> writes:
>>
>> It is true, my own rain gauge has successfully measured several metres
>> of rain since its installation. What they are not resistant to is
>> spiders' web. Maintenance, eh?
>

> ObTangent: Spiders. I like them. Some of them trigger a 'creepy!'
> reaction, but overall, whenever I see one in my home, I feel happy:
> someone to take care of invading bugs for me.

Spiders and I have a pact. I won't get tools to harrass them, and they
stay up near the ceiling. But they aren't a patch on the sheer
murderousness of Scutigera coleoptrata. If I could make a ranch for
those things, I would.

--
Life does not cease to be funny when people die any more than it ceases
to be serious when people laugh.
-- George Bernard Shaw

[Joe Zeff]

On Fri, 06 Nov 2015 10:30:38 +0100, Gallian wrote:

> Our shower used to house a long-legged spider in a top corner. For the
> year that she lived there, we didn't see any gnats at all; gnats tend to
> hang out in moist places, after all, and she ate them with relish.

Indeed. What kind of relish did she use, and where did she get it from?

--
Joe Zeff -- The Guy With The Sideburns:
http://www.zeff.us http://www.lasfsinc.info

These days it is apparently elitist to know words
of more than one syllable.