I have been CHALLENGED. . .
Keith A. Glass
And my prof in Computer Forensics has given us a Challenge assignment:
come up with a forensic scenario, create the appropriate evidence, and
give it to the class to solve.
We have a BOFHly professor, and one other admin on the verge of
BOFHhood.
He wants a personal challenge. So I gave him one. He has two weeks
to find this place and post a message. . . .
And Ken ?
Vs lbh'ir tbggra guvf sne, gung jnf gur RNFL cneg. Ercyl, vs lbh pna.
. . .
Keith A. Glass
(Lrf, V ernyvmr vg'f abg GUNG zhpu bs n Punyyratr. Ohg jr'yy frr ubj
gur CSL jbexf bhg. Ur'f sbhaq gur tebhc nyernql. . . .)
Mike Andrews
Keith A. Glass <sal...@speakeasy.net> wrote in
<paep241m6sotl0l8t...@4ax.com>:
> On Thu, 15 May 2008 18:05:44 -0400, Keith A. Glass
> <sal...@speakeasy.net> wrote:
>>So. . .two weeks left in my Master's program.
>>
>>And my prof in Computer Forensics has given us a Challenge assignment:
>>come up with a forensic scenario, create the appropriate evidence, and
>>give it to the class to solve.
>>
>>We have a BOFHly professor, and one other admin on the verge of
>>BOFHhood.
>>
>>He wants a personal challenge. So I gave him one. He has two weeks
>>to find this place and post a message. . . .
>>
>>And Ken ?
>>
>>Vs lbh'ir tbggra guvf sne, gung jnf gur RNFL cneg. Ercyl, vs lbh pna.
>>. . .
Nice to see you back, KAG. It has been too long indeed, but school
trumps even a.s.r.
> (Lrf, V ernyvmr vg'f abg GUNG zhpu bs n Punyyratr. Ohg jr'yy frr ubj
> gur CSL jbexf bhg. Ur'f sbhaq gur tebhc nyernql. . . .)
Wt vs rcsg wh dfcdsfzm, hvsb vs'zz twl hvwbug gc hvoh vwg bskgqzwsbh
rcsgb'h fseiwfs o UBYGO-qcadzwobh ghfwbu wb hvs oddfcdfwohs dzoqs. Pih
hvwg wg sogm.
Ugg oa ejkemgp hqt cp gzcorng.
Gb ernq gur nobir, ur'yy unir gb unaqyr EBGf bgure guna gur qvivfbef
bs gjragl fvk, gbb. Uru.
--
"It's almost like there's a record full of incomprehensible bullshit playing in
your mind 24/7, and you put the needle down randomly and whatever it picks up,
you just type it up in an email and shoot it off to me, usually mid-sentence."
Keith A. Glass
<mi...@mikea.ath.cx> wrote:
>On Thu, 15 May 2008 18:31:05 -0400,
> Keith A. Glass <sal...@speakeasy.net> wrote in
> <paep241m6sotl0l8t...@4ax.com>:
>
>> On Thu, 15 May 2008 18:05:44 -0400, Keith A. Glass
>> <sal...@speakeasy.net> wrote:
>
>>>So. . .two weeks left in my Master's program.
>>>
>>>And my prof in Computer Forensics has given us a Challenge assignment:
>>>come up with a forensic scenario, create the appropriate evidence, and
>>>give it to the class to solve.
>>>
>>>We have a BOFHly professor, and one other admin on the verge of
>>>BOFHhood.
>>>
>>>He wants a personal challenge. So I gave him one. He has two weeks
>>>to find this place and post a message. . . .
>>>
>>>And Ken ?
>>>
>>>Vs lbh'ir tbggra guvf sne, gung jnf gur RNFL cneg. Ercyl, vs lbh pna.
>>>. . .
>
>Nice to see you back, KAG. It has been too long indeed, but school
>trumps even a.s.r.
Oh, I've been lurking. But busy. . . .
>> (Lrf, V ernyvmr vg'f abg GUNG zhpu bs n Punyyratr. Ohg jr'yy frr ubj
>> gur CSL jbexf bhg. Ur'f sbhaq gur tebhc nyernql. . . .)
>
>Wt vs rcsg wh dfcdsfzm, hvsb vs'zz twl hvwbug gc hvoh vwg bskgqzwsbh
>rcsgb'h fseiwfs o UBYGO-qcadzwobh ghfwbu wb hvs oddfcdfwohs dzoqs. Pih
>hvwg wg sogm.
>
>Ugg oa ejkemgp hqt cp gzcorng.
>
>Gb ernq gur nobir, ur'yy unir gb unaqyr EBGf bgure guna gur qvivfbef
>bs gjragl fvk, gbb. Uru.
Indeed.
Ea rmd, uf xaawe xuwq tq'e geuzs Saasxq Sdagbe. Tq'e ndawqz DAF-13,
xqf'e eqq ur tq ndqmwe ftue azq.
Mike Andrews
> Indeed.
If he gets it, you could use something else. You could Playfair, or
you could Vigenere, or four-square, or any of several other easy-to-
use manual ciphers, instead of a simple run-down-the-alphabet system.
I just got five nice pamphlets from the NSA, one of them including a
series of 5 lectures by William F. Friedman on cryptography, -ology,
and -analysis, along with an overview of COMINT, SIGINT, and related
matters. The Friedman pamphlet includes examples of lotsandlots of
interesting-to-solve, easy-to-use stuff.
--
Remember the signs in restaurants "We reserve the right to refuse
service to anyone"? The spammers twist it around to say "we reserve
the right to serve refuse to anyone."
-- SPAMJAMR & Blackthorn in nanae
Tai
> I just got five nice pamphlets from the NSA, one of them including a
> series of 5 lectures by William F. Friedman on cryptography, -ology,
> and -analysis, along with an overview of COMINT, SIGINT, and related
> matters. The Friedman pamphlet includes examples of lotsandlots of
> interesting-to-solve, easy-to-use stuff.
So, I should really really go visit the spy museum while I have
a chance?
-Tai
--
http://www.vcnet.com/bms/features/serendipities.html
http://www.kenthamilton.net/humor/humor.html
http://www.despair.com/demotivators/cluelessness.html
"What we have done with PCs so far is not natural" - Craig Mundie, CTO Microsoft
Keith A. Glass
wrote:
>While pretending to be roadkill on the InfoBahn, <mi...@mikea.ath.cx> scrawled:
>> I just got five nice pamphlets from the NSA, one of them including a
>> series of 5 lectures by William F. Friedman on cryptography, -ology,
>> and -analysis, along with an overview of COMINT, SIGINT, and related
>> matters. The Friedman pamphlet includes examples of lotsandlots of
>> interesting-to-solve, easy-to-use stuff.
>
> So, I should really really go visit the spy museum while I have
>a chance?
I'd suggest the Crypto Museum up by Ft. Meade. Besides, the Spy
Museum something like $20. to enter these days. . .
Mike Andrews
<slrng2pp3...@urd.spidernet.to>:
> While pretending to be roadkill on the InfoBahn, <mi...@mikea.ath.cx> scrawled:
>> I just got five nice pamphlets from the NSA, one of them including a
>> series of 5 lectures by William F. Friedman on cryptography, -ology,
>> and -analysis, along with an overview of COMINT, SIGINT, and related
>> matters. The Friedman pamphlet includes examples of lotsandlots of
>> interesting-to-solve, easy-to-use stuff.
> So, I should really really go visit the spy museum while I have
> a chance?
OhHellYes! And the website, where you can read about some of the stuff
I used to work on, and order free[1] some other neat books, and find
out what they want you to know about lots of stuff.
I don't know if any of the rotor machines are actually hands-on, but
they do have some Enigmas, a Hagelin M-209 (a friend had one, and it
was a wonder[2]), a SIGABA, and I think also a working PURPLE analog.
Cool place. And you can buy an NSA-logo-and-seal coffee mug, and other
neat stuff, in the shop. See if they'll sell you a KL-7. That's a joke.
Don't. It would be A Really Bad Idea.
[1] My tax dollars at work, for _me_!
[2] Derived from a vending machine change dispenser. Really!
--
It shone, pale as bone, as I stood there alone.
And I thought to myself how the moon, that night cast its light
on my hearts true delight, and the reef where her body was strewn
-- Manuel Calavera, "Grim Fandango"
Mike Andrews
Mercenary Monk <feeping....@cow-tapult.example.com> wrote in
<slrng2q4da.l7.f...@my-286.local>:
> sal...@speakeasy.net (Keith A Glass) wrote:
>> Tai <t...@urd.spidernet.to> wrote:
>> >So, I should really really go visit the spy museum while I have
>> >a chance?
>>
>> I'd suggest the Crypto Museum up by Ft. Meade. Besides, the Spy
>> Museum something like $20. to enter these days. . .
> I was just in DC a couple months ago, near the spy museum even, but
> neglected to go. I have to rectify this sometime soon. But given
> that I've been assured that my travel (frequency and destinations)
> "would not have gone unnoticed," by someone who works near a Scud, I
> might skip Ft. Meade - or at the very least, wear a hat, gloves and
> sunglasses, and pay cash.
Lambros Callimahos, when he went asking for a job with the crypto guys,
was wearing a broad-brimmed hat and a red-satin-lined black silk cape,
and in every way looked precisely the part of the spy-as-protagonist in
a period novel. Oh, and he was a famous virtuoso on the flute, too.
He got the job.
Given a choice between the Spy Museum and the Fort Meade Crypto Museum
(what a _choice_! Oh, my Daughter! Oh, my ducats!), I'd choose the
Crypto Museum. And I'd book two days.
Got my marmalade-jar pencil-holder, I do. Got it the hard way.
--
I'm personally in favor of finding some way to make Robert A. Heinlein's
corpse "President Forever" and making it mandatory that any public official
memorizes "The Notebooks of Lazarus Long" . --R. Asby Dragon
Mike Andrews
Jamie <sbw...@caughtsomewhereintime.org> wrote in
<878wyad...@caughtsomewhereintime.org>:
> "Mike Andrews" <mi...@mikea.ath.cx> writes:
>> If he gets it, you could use something else. You could Playfair, or
>> you could Vigenere, or four-square,
> ...or anything encrypted using DSA or RSA keys generated on Debian in
> the last 3 years. Gaaah.
I left them out because I wanted something that would provide *some*
challenge.
Gaaah, indeed. Removing the one statement would have been fine.
Removing the other shows that The Clues Have Nothing To Fear.
--
Optimist: There is a light at the end of the tunnel.
Pessimist: ... it is an oncoming train.
Cynic: ... and it is late.
Peter Corlett
[...]
> ...or anything encrypted using DSA or RSA keys generated on Debian in the
> last 3 years. Gaaah.
I'm looking at it as an excuse to give some of my older Debian boxes a
forklift upgrade. When life hands you lemons...
John Burnham
> When life hands you lemons...
You squeeze the juice into the eyes of some passerby and then, when they
are writhing on the floor in pain, steal their wallet ?
J
Niklas Karlsson
Mental image of women carrying packets of lemon juice instead of pepper
spray.
Never did get lemon juice in my eyes, but I did accidentally spray
garlic juice into one eye whilst pressing garlic into my food, once.
That wasn't too pleasant, either.
Niklas
--
"... although point and click pretty much means you have run out
of ammo, which is not the point at all." -- David Jacoby
John Burnham
>
> Mental image of women carrying packets of lemon juice instead of pepper
> spray.
>
Heh, and that's brought back a mental image I could have done without as
well. Many years ago, I worked somewhere dealing with patents. We had a
file of bizarre patents we'd seen over the years. One of them was an
anti-rape device which basically involved an easily punctured sachet of an
unpleasant substance (I believe the examples included a couple of mineral
acids) which was inserted into the relevant orifice and held in place by
a truly terrifying looking contraption. I think it was things like that
which finally convinced me that humanity contains some very stupid
specimens.
J
Ross J. Reedstrom
> On 16 May 2008 07:13:03 +0100, Jamie wrote:
>> "Mike Andrews" <mi...@mikea.ath.cx> writes:
>> ...or anything encrypted using DSA or RSA keys generated on Debian in
>> the last 3 years. Gaaah.
>
>
> feeping away somewhere, that I've forgotten to update.
Can you say emdebian? I knew you could.
Ross
Steve VanDevender
> Heh, and that's brought back a mental image I could have done without as
> well. Many years ago, I worked somewhere dealing with patents. We had a
> file of bizarre patents we'd seen over the years. One of them was an
> anti-rape device which basically involved an easily punctured sachet of an
> unpleasant substance (I believe the examples included a couple of mineral
> acids) which was inserted into the relevant orifice and held in place by
> a truly terrifying looking contraption. I think it was things like that
> which finally convinced me that humanity contains some very stupid
> specimens.
> J
Did that patent application come in before or after Neal Stephenson
published "Snow Crash", with its memorable scene involving Raven, Y.T.,
and her "dentata"?
--
Steve VanDevender "I ride the big iron" http://hexadecimal.uoregon.edu/
ste...@hexadecimal.uoregon.edu PGP keyprint 4AD7AF61F0B9DE87 522902969C0A7EE8
"bash awk grep perl sed df du, du-du du-du,
vi troff su fsck rm * halt LART LART LART!" -- the Swedish BOFH
John F. Eldredge
> John Burnham <jo...@jaka.demon.co.uk> writes:
>
>> Heh, and that's brought back a mental image I could have done without
>> as well. Many years ago, I worked somewhere dealing with patents. We
>> had a file of bizarre patents we'd seen over the years. One of them was
>> an anti-rape device which basically involved an easily punctured sachet
>> of an unpleasant substance (I believe the examples included a couple of
>> mineral acids) which was inserted into the relevant orifice and held in
>> place by a truly terrifying looking contraption. I think it was things
>> like that which finally convinced me that humanity contains some very
>> stupid specimens.
>> J
>
> Did that patent application come in before or after Neal Stephenson
> published "Snow Crash", with its memorable scene involving Raven, Y.T.,
> and her "dentata"?
At least the dentata would be more painful to the rapist than to the
victim. The acid packet technique might drive away a rapist, but it
would definitely be a Pyrrhic victory.
--
John F. Eldredge -- jo...@jfeldredge.com
PGP key available from http://pgp.mit.edu
"Reserve your right to think, for even to think wrongly is better
than not to think at all." -- Hypatia of Alexandria
G. Paul Ziemba
>On Fri, 16 May 2008 07:59:02 -0500, Satya <sat...@satyaonline.cjb.net>
>wrote:
>>Make batteries?
>No target: batteries
batteries?: No match. Use lighter?
--
G. Paul Ziemba
FreeBSD unix:
9:56PM up 34 days, 8 hrs, 13 users, load averages: 0.40, 0.31, 0.28
Steve VanDevender
> On Fri, 16 May 2008 09:54:06 -0700, Steve VanDevender wrote:
>
>> John Burnham <jo...@jaka.demon.co.uk> writes:
>>
>>> Heh, and that's brought back a mental image I could have done without
>>> as well. Many years ago, I worked somewhere dealing with patents. We
>>> had a file of bizarre patents we'd seen over the years. One of them was
>>> an anti-rape device which basically involved an easily punctured sachet
>>> of an unpleasant substance (I believe the examples included a couple of
>>> mineral acids) which was inserted into the relevant orifice and held in
>>> place by a truly terrifying looking contraption. I think it was things
>>> like that which finally convinced me that humanity contains some very
>>> stupid specimens.
>>> J
>>
>> Did that patent application come in before or after Neal Stephenson
>> published "Snow Crash", with its memorable scene involving Raven, Y.T.,
>> and her "dentata"?
>
> At least the dentata would be more painful to the rapist than to the
> victim. The acid packet technique might drive away a rapist, but it
> would definitely be a Pyrrhic victory.
In case anyone hasn't yet read "Snow Crash", I'll EGB-13 a spoiler for
that scene.
L.G.'f qragngn vaibyirq n fcevat-ybnqrq nzchyr bs n cbjreshy nanfgurgvp
cynprq va n irel crefbany cynpr, jurer vg jbhyq gevttre va n irel
crefbany cynpr (jvgu rkpryyrag pvephyngvba, gbb) bs nal encvfg. Abg
cnvashy sbe gur encvfg ohg rssrpgvir ng fgbccvat uvz (naq cebonoyl tbbq
ng znxvat vg rnfl sbe gur cbyvpr gb cvpx uvz hc). Fur npghnyyl vagraqrq
gb trg vg ba jvgu Enira ohg ernyvmrq fur unqa'g jura vg gevttrerq naq vg
xabpxrq uvz hapbafpvbf.
Fur rfpncrq (Enira jnf gur punenpgre jvgu gur zbgbeplpyr jubfr fvqrpne
pbagnvarq n yvir ahxr, fb crbcyr jrer eryhpgnag gb cvff uvz bss vs gurl
xarj gung) ohg jura fur oevrsyl rapbhagrerq uvz yngre va gur obbx, ur
tnir ure n aba-ireony vaqvpngvba gung ur frrzrq gb or vzcerffrq ol ure
naq ubj ure qragngn unq, funyy jr fnl, ynvq uvz ybj.
--
Steve VanDevender "I ride the big iron" http://hexadecimal.uoregon.edu/
ste...@hexadecimal.uoregon.edu PGP keyprint 4AD7AF61F0B9DE87 522902969C0A7EE8
Little things break, circuitry burns / Time flies while my little world turns
Every day comes, every day goes / 100 years and nobody shows -- Happy Rhodes
Steve VanDevender
> Peter Corlett wrote:
>
>>I'm looking at it as an excuse to give some of my older Debian boxes a
>>forklift upgrade. When life hands you lemons...
>
> My _older_ Debian boxes are unaffected. It's only the host keys for the
> machines I've built in the last few months that have popped up on my
> audit so far.
Fortunately my primary Debian box had host and identity keys migrated
from the DEComPackard system it replaced, and anyway had been installed
before the release of the OpenSSL packages with the bugs. Still, argh.
Richard Bos
> If he gets it, you could use something else. You could Playfair, or
> you could Vigenere, or four-square, or any of several other easy-to-
> use manual ciphers, instead of a simple run-down-the-alphabet system.
> I just got five nice pamphlets from the NSA, one of them including a
> series of 5 lectures by William F. Friedman on cryptography, -ology,
> and -analysis, along with an overview of COMINT, SIGINT, and related
> matters. The Friedman pamphlet includes examples of lotsandlots of
> interesting-to-solve, easy-to-use stuff.
Oh, FFS. We're the computer people. Use PGP already. Or some fish or
other.
Richard
Mike Andrews
Richard Bos <ral...@xs4all.nl> wrote in
<482df273...@news.xs4all.nl>:
> "Mike Andrews" <mi...@mikea.ath.cx> wrote:
But that's not ... _pretty_! The theory is pretty, I admit, and it is
overwhelmingly elegant as well, but in practice, it's Just Grinding At
Huge Numbers. Oh, and an awful lot of stuff in the pamphlets is on the
_management_ of COMINT and SIGINT resources during wartime when you
don't have anything like the resources you need and it's Absolutely
Fscking Vital to manage them properly.
And in this case you want something that is hand-solvable with just a
bit more effort than the instructor is willing to put out, so that he
stays in that potential well of unsolvability.
I have put some thought into this, however, and would have given him a
copy of Simon Singh's _The Code Book_, if I had been in KAG's place.
It's got all the elements KAG's prof specified: scenario, problem,
real solutions.
--
Clerk in store, in response to query:
"You're the third person I've had to say this to already
today: WE DON'T STOCK IT, BECAUSE THERE'S NO CALL FOR IT".
-- Alan J. Flavell, in the monastery
Dave Howe
> I think they wanted something that could be broken by someone
> sufficiently clever. PGP done right is too hard.
just do PGP like the users do then :)
Mike Andrews
Dave Howe <Dave...@hawkswing.d-mon.co.uk> wrote in
<g0p4pa$qhs$1$8302...@news.demon.co.uk>:
> Jamie wrote:
Or he could just had the prof some Debian SSL certs.
--
... after a day of dealing with computers and software and the people who use
computers and hire me to program them, I *REALLY* need to get drunk. Some days,
booze is the only thing between me and a life sentence for murder.
-- Mark Hughes, on a Monday, in the Monastery
Chris Suslowicz
"Mike Andrews" <mi...@mikea.ath.cx> wrote:
>If he gets it, you could use something else. You could Playfair, or
>you could Vigenere, or four-square, or any of several other easy-to-
>use manual ciphers, instead of a simple run-down-the-alphabet system.
Something like SLIDEX, which I note has the word "TENTACLE" on one
of the cards (then again, I'm sure that its replacement (BATCO) is
also full of tentacles in places).
Chris.
--
The Wolverine: "Imagine a 40-pound ferret with a personality-defect
who has been raised on a diet of anabolic steroids and weapons-grade
PCP, and you've just said something unbelievably rude about his mother.
Now you have to get him out of the trap" -- Tanuki in asr.
David Cameron Staples
> --
> Clerk in store, in response to query:
> "You're the third person I've had to say this to already today: WE
> DON'T STOCK IT, BECAUSE THERE'S NO CALL FOR IT".
> -- Alan J. Flavell, in the monastery
Customer: Oh, I know! How about: Cheddar?
Cheese Shop Salesman: Not much call for it round here.
Cust.: 'Not much call...?' It's the single most popular cheese in the
WORLD!
Sales: Not round 'ere.
Cust: So what _is_ the most popular cheese 'round here', pray?
Sales: (proudly) Ilchester.
Cust: Ilchester.
Sales: Ilchester.
Cust: Is it.
Sales: Oh yeah, *staggeringly* popular round these parts, squire.
Cust: So do you have any, he said, expecting the answer 'no'.
Sales: Yyyyyyyyyyyyy--no.
--
David Cameron Staples | staples AT csse DOT unimelb DOT edu DOT au
Melbourne University | School of Engineering | IT Support
steve: whats your opinion on censorship
insomniacdude007: **** censorship -- bash.org/?524037
Steve VanDevender
Ah, yes.
From: luser
To: stevev
Here is my PGP key so you can send me encrypted mail.
-----BEGIN PGP PRIVATE KEY BLOCK-----
. . .
-----END PGP PRIVATE KEY BLOCK-----
I swear I am not making this up.
John Burnham
> Did that patent application come in before or after Neal Stephenson
> published "Snow Crash", with its memorable scene involving Raven, Y.T.,
> and her "dentata"?
Oh, before. Well before. It was one of the older ones in the file of "Why
the Hell would anyone patent this ?" that one of the guys there kept.
I think there was also a reinvention of the chastity belt in the form of a
set of lockable chainmail knickers in that file too.
J
Shmuel Metz
at 02:05 AM, "Mike Andrews" <mi...@mikea.ath.cx> said:
>Cool place. And you can buy an NSA-logo-and-seal coffee mug, and other
>neat stuff, in the shop. See if they'll sell you a KL-7.
I want a Harvest. Of course, I couldn't afford to house it, much less run
it. Besides, I probably should ask at the other museum.
--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz <http://patriot.net/~shmuel> ISO position
Reply to domain Patriot dot net user shmuel+bspfh to contact me.
We don't care. We don't have to care, we're Congress.
(S877: The Shut up and Eat Your spam act of 2003)
Shmuel Metz
at 01:33 AM, Tai <t...@urd.spidernet.to> said:
> So, I should really really go visit the spy museum while I have a
>chance?
If you do, buy your tickets in advance and expect a long line.
Shmuel Metz
at 06:05 PM, Keith A. Glass <sal...@speakeasy.net> said:
>He wants a personal challenge. So I gave him one. He has two weeks to
>find this place and post a message. . . .
And if he only posts an article?
>And Ken ?
>Vs lbh'ir tbggra guvf sne, gung jnf gur RNFL cneg. Ercyl, vs lbh pna.
Shirley you jest.
Matt Erickson
I had a piss-poor math education that I'm only now slowly recovering
from (Why do math in your head when TI gave us lots of these wonderful
gadgets?-style); it's only the past few years I've taught myself quick
and accurate estimation of arithmetic of larger numbers. I've read
Lockheart's Lament, and I want to Become Good At Math, in a way where
I could really appreciate the beauty of some of what cryptology does,
among other things (much like others tend to consider me Good At
Piano).
Any of you wonderful folks here have good starting points?
--
Matt Erickson <pea...@peawee.net>
Political correctness is not insane. You want to call it "alternatively
reality-based". - Richard Bos, Usenet
dj3v...@csclub.uwaterloo.ca.invalid
Matt Erickson <pea...@peawee.net> wrote:
>I had a piss-poor math education that I'm only now slowly recovering
>from (Why do math in your head when TI gave us lots of these wonderful
>gadgets?-style); it's only the past few years I've taught myself quick
>and accurate estimation of arithmetic of larger numbers. I've read
>Lockheart's Lament, and I want to Become Good At Math, in a way where
>I could really appreciate the beauty of some of what cryptology does,
>among other things (much like others tend to consider me Good At
>Piano).
>
>Any of you wonderful folks here have good starting points?
Find somebody who *really* *understands* some kind of higher math
(calculus is my favorite, but whatever works; for crypto, classical
algebra is a good place to start) and ask them to explain it to you, in
all its glory, using words that are small enough and no smaller.
(If you were local, I'd volunteer.)
If you can find somebody who both understands it well enough and is
patient enough, you'll get a wonderful introduction to what it means to
think like a mathematician, and also get a decent understanding of at
least one subfield of math.
(The kind of person you're looking for will accept beer fund donations,
but only after giving you a strange "*you* want to compensate *me* for
telling you about this?" look.)
In my experience the biggest obstacle to learning this sort of thing is
the learner's (un)willingness to put the time and effort into it
(which, if you're asking about it here, is unlikely to be a problem),
followed closely by difficulty in finding an appropriate presentation.
(You could, in principle, learn it just as well from a textbook, but
it's Rather Harder to find a textbook that starts at the right level
and goes into all the interesting bits.)
dave
--
Dave Vandervies dj3vande at eskimo dot com
It's of no practical consequence since, as you might expect given the source,
the table produces the same result for all valid expressions, but it does have
an impact on academic discussions such as this one. --Larry Jones in CLC
Mike Andrews
dj3v...@csclub.uwaterloo.ca.invalid wrote in
<g0sstk$n14$1...@rumours.uwaterloo.ca>:
Start with a copy of Helen Fouche Gaines' book on cryptanalysis; if
this interests you a lot, then consider investing some cash in the
Aegean Park Press reissues of the cryptanalysis texts written for the
NSA by William Friedman and Lambros Callimahos. These will give you a
nuts-and-bolts understanding of the manual systems and their cracks.
At this point you're ready to start thinking about these systems in
more abstract mathematical terms and to consider more modern ciphers
based on exponentiation of large primes. You might also start looking
at matrix representations of LFSRs, and their solutions, and try to
extend the representations to NLFSRs.
Along the way you'll probably want to look at rotor machines and their
solutions, but they're really a side track -- though a fascinating and
important side track.
Kruh and Deavours textbook is excellent, and there are others. And you
may want to subscribe to Cryptologia.
That's a start; it'll take you two to five years, at the end of which
you'll be ready to solve all the problems in Simon Singh's _The Code
Book_.
--
You are in a maze of twisty little protocols, all written by
Microsoft.
"The Horror! The Horror!"
Dave
> Any of you wonderful folks here have good starting points?
Bell-ringing, as a way into group theory and thence to encryption and
other places.
Dave
--
millibrachiate tentacular coelenterates
Jim
> NB: If anyone recommends Digital Fortress, I *will* kill you.
[innocent look] but it's a _classic_ textbook!
Jim
--
Note to self: trademark the name "Load Bearing Member" so someone in
the porn industry will pay me a fortune.
Find me at http://www.UrsaMinorBeta.co.uk
Chris Suslowicz
Jamie <sbw...@caughtsomewhereintime.org> cautioned:
>NB: If anyone recommends Digital Fortress, I *will* kill you.
That all depends on what they're recommending it for[1], shirley?
Chris.
[1] Kindling springs to mind, as does nitrating it and using it as
a primer for the (similarly nitrated or liquid oxygen soaked)
Battlefield Earth dekaology (decay-ology?).
--
"While preceding your entrance with a grenade is a good tactic in
Quake, it can lead to problems if attempted at work." -- C Hacking
Keith A. Glass
<spam...@library.lspace.org.invalid> wrote:
>In <3bcp24lrgcqoavqvn...@4ax.com>, on 05/15/2008
> at 06:05 PM, Keith A. Glass <sal...@speakeasy.net> said:
>
>>He wants a personal challenge. So I gave him one. He has two weeks to
>>find this place and post a message. . . .
>
>And if he only posts an article?
He would have met the challenge. And then I'll introduce him around.
..
>>And Ken ?
>>Vs lbh'ir tbggra guvf sne, gung jnf gur RNFL cneg. Ercyl, vs lbh pna.
>
>Shirley you jest.
V qba'g wrfg. Naq fgbc pnyyvat zr Fuveyrl ;=C
Jim
> [1] Kindling springs to mind, as does nitrating it and using it as
> a primer for the (similarly nitrated or liquid oxygen soaked)
> Battlefield Earth dekaology (decay-ology?).
That was 'Mission Earth'. 'Battlefield Earth' was a different crock.
Jim
> > > NB: If anyone recommends Digital Fortress, I *will* kill you.
> >
> > [innocent look] but it's a _classic_ textbook!
>
> The second half could be wonderful. I will never know.
Heh. It wasn't.
Mike Andrews
Paul Martin <p...@zetnet.net> wrote in
<slrng37o...@thinkpad.nowster.org.uk>:
> In article <ud4nhq...@qfy.cvcrk.pbz>,
> Dave wrote:
>> Matt Erickson <pea...@peawee.net> writes:
>>> Any of you wonderful folks here have good starting points?
>> Bell-ringing, as a way into group theory and thence to encryption and
>> other places.
> It would certainly make a change.
And be totally appropriate for a Bob.
--
Our state government had an advertisement for a "Sexually
Transmitted Disease Specialist". I see that they have added the
word "Prevention" to the job title now. This is good; it keeps
the "working girls" from flocking in to apply.
John Burnham
>
> That was 'Mission Earth'. 'Battlefield Earth' was a different crock.
>
I still want the section of my life I wasted reading that back. It's my
own daft fault I suppose. I'd read a review by Dave Langford that
basically said "This is a really bad book. Seriously. It is not so bad
that it's funny. It's just really, really bad." I decided to see what the
fuss was about. He was right. It was just a really, really bad book.
J
Shmuel Metz
at 09:11 PM, Matt Erickson <pea...@peawee.net> said:
>I had a piss-poor math education that I'm only now slowly recovering from
>(Why do math in your head when TI gave us lots of these wonderful
>gadgets?-style); it's only the past few years I've taught myself quick
>and accurate estimation of arithmetic of larger numbers. I've read
>Lockheart's Lament, and I want to Become Good At Math, in a way where I
>could really appreciate the beauty of some of what cryptology does, among
>other things (much like others tend to consider me Good At Piano).
>Any of you wonderful folks here have good starting points?
Well, first write 100 times "Arithmetic is not Mathematics." Second, read
Polya's "How to Solve It". Third, find a textbook with a title like
"Finite Mathematics", "Introduction to Abstract Algebra" or "Introduction
to Modern Algebra." Fourth, if you're interested in Cryptography then read
up on Finite Fields and Number Theory.
Step 0 is to pace the other steps such that they are pleasures rather than
chores.
Jim
Count yourself lucky - I bought and paid for the 'Mission Earth' lot. In
hardback.
I was young(er) and foolish(er), what can I say?
Jim
--
http://www.ursaMinorBeta.co.uk http://twitter.com/GreyAreaUK
"Sometimes when I talk to a Windows person about using a Mac,
I feel like I'm explaining Van Halen to a horse." Merlin Mann
Tai
> Count yourself lucky - I bought and paid for the 'Mission Earth' lot. In
> hardback.
>
> I was young(er) and foolish(er), what can I say?
Hey, I'm missing a few books in that series... :)
-Tai
--
http://www.vcnet.com/bms/features/serendipities.html
http://www.kenthamilton.net/humor/humor.html
http://www.despair.com/demotivators/cluelessness.html
"What we have done with PCs so far is not natural" - Craig Mundie, CTO Microsoft
Jim
> > Count yourself lucky - I bought and paid for the 'Mission Earth' lot. In
> > hardback.
> >
> > I was young(er) and foolish(er), what can I say?
>
> Hey, I'm missing a few books in that series... :)
No. No, trust me, you're not.
Jim
--
'Cloverfield' in nine words: "What is it?!" "We're gonna die!" BOOM!
Roll credits.
Find me at http://www.ursaminorbeta.co.uk
Niklas Karlsson
> Tai <t...@urd.spidernet.to> wrote:
>
>> > Count yourself lucky - I bought and paid for the 'Mission Earth' lot. In
>> > hardback.
>> >
>> > I was young(er) and foolish(er), what can I say?
>>
>> Hey, I'm missing a few books in that series... :)
>
> No. No, trust me, you're not.
And neither are you, at least if you have time to reload?
Niklas
--
Must confess, i'd feel just a little bit
conspicuous ordering a large Espresso and an enema-bag at my local
coffee-house...
-- Tanuki in asr
Jim
> >> > Count yourself lucky - I bought and paid for the 'Mission Earth' lot. In
> >> > hardback.
> >> >
> >> > I was young(er) and foolish(er), what can I say?
> >>
> >> Hey, I'm missing a few books in that series... :)
> >
> > No. No, trust me, you're not.
>
> And neither are you, at least if you have time to reload?
I'd probably take the 'fire pit and lots of accelerant' approach
personally. But I see where you're coming from.
Jim
--
Note to self: trademark the name "Load Bearing Member" so someone in
the porn industry will pay me a fortune.
http://www.UrsaMinorBeta.co.uk http://twitter.com/greyareauk
Mike Andrews
Jim <j...@magrathea.plus.com> wrote in
<1ihb15o.44c6hl1lu0oejN%j...@magrathea.plus.com>:
> Tai <t...@urd.spidernet.to> wrote:
>> > Count yourself lucky - I bought and paid for the 'Mission Earth' lot. In
>> > hardback.
>> >
>> > I was young(er) and foolish(er), what can I say?
>>
>> Hey, I'm missing a few books in that series... :)
> No. No, trust me, you're not.
It is entirely possible that he is, in which case I suggest the use of
a riflescope and either a bench rest or some sandbags, and remind him
of Peter Gutmann's observation on gun control:
"Precisely. A few degrees to the left or right and you'll miss the luser
and possibly risk damaging valuable equipment."
- Peter Gutmann, agreeing with Dan Holdsworth that gun control is just a
question of degrees.
Ths observation also is worth remembering:
'Dianetics' and 'Battlefield Earth'. "Burning books is *wrong*. So we shot
them instead." Apparently they do quite well as targets; whatever he was
using had as much trouble getting all the way through BE as many a human
reader. -- David Gerard, posting as Brian Harradine, in the Monastery
--
Why would burglars need to look for a back door when they can climb
in through the Windows?
-- Norman L. DeForest
Chris Suslowicz
John Burnham <jo...@jaka.demon.co.uk> wrote:
It's your own fault. You can't say he didn't warn you about it.
(I still have difficulty reading "The Dragonhikers Guide to Battlefield
Covenant at Eune's Edge, Odessey Two" without having to put it down and
wait for my ribs to shop hurting.)
"Please do not buy this book, even to read on trains."[1]
======================
Chris.
[1] Final line of a review of "Habitation One" by "Frederic Dunstan". The
reviewer was, I think, Sue Thomason and Langford quoted it in TDHGTBCADEOT
with a considerable amount of support.
--
Stevo: And I don't do veggies if I can help it.
Iain: If you could see your colon, you'd be horrified.
David: If he could see his colon, he'd be management.
-- Stevo, Iain D Broadfoot and David Scheidt in asr.
Chris Suslowicz
Jim <j...@magrathea.plus.com> wrote:
>On 2008-05-21, John Burnham <jo...@jaka.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>> On Wed, 21 May 2008 06:52:23 +0100, Jim wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> That was 'Mission Earth'. 'Battlefield Earth' was a different crock.
>>>
>>
>> I still want the section of my life I wasted reading that back. It's my
>> own daft fault I suppose. I'd read a review by Dave Langford that
>> basically said "This is a really bad book. Seriously. It is not so bad
>> that it's funny. It's just really, really bad." I decided to see what the
>> fuss was about. He was right. It was just a really, really bad book.
>
>Count yourself lucky - I bought and paid for the 'Mission Earth' lot. In
>hardback.
Jesus H. Christ!
>I was young(er) and foolish(er), what can I say?
Is that the reason you took up goats as a hobby?
(And the single malt to wash away the memory of the memory?)
ITWSBT
Chris.
Joe Zeff
> Count yourself lucky - I bought and paid for the 'Mission Earth' lot. In
> hardback.
At the annual LASFS Gift Exchange, a set of the Drekology, as it's locally
known, is considered as crud and unacceptable unless it's accompanied by
appropriate crud insurance of at least $10 value. (That's the minimum
value for an acceptable gift.)
--
Joe Zeff -- The Guy With The Sideburns: http://www.zeff.us http://
www.lasfs.info
I'm getting a headache from nonsense fatigue.
Alexander Schreiber
> While pretending to be roadkill on the InfoBahn, <j...@magrathea.plus.com> scrawled:
>> Count yourself lucky - I bought and paid for the 'Mission Earth' lot. In
>> hardback.
>>
>> I was young(er) and foolish(er), what can I say?
>
> Hey, I'm missing a few books in that series... :)
You want to complete set to soak in nitric acid and detonate at once?
Yes, I remember that particular series of ... products of the printing
press. Too bad the guy sucked at writing good fiction or he might have
stuck with it and not changed careers to something more profitable.
Regards,
Alex.
--
"Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls and
looks like work." -- Thomas A. Edison
Jim
> >Count yourself lucky - I bought and paid for the 'Mission Earth' lot. In
> >hardback.
>
> Jesus H. Christ!
I'll say one thing for it - it _looks_ impressive on the bookshelf.
> >I was young(er) and foolish(er), what can I say?
>
> Is that the reason you took up goats as a hobby?
[flat look]
> (And the single malt to wash away the memory of the memory?)
No, that's just genetic alchoholism.
Jim
--
Note to self: trademark the name "Load Bearing Member" so someone in
the porn industry will pay me a fortune.
http://www.UrsaMinorBeta.co.uk http://twitter.com/greyareauk
Jim
> Yes, I remember that particular series of ... products of the printing
> press. Too bad the guy sucked at writing good fiction or he might have
> stuck with it and not changed careers to something more profitable.
I was in Birmingham a couple of weeks ago (to see 'Iron Man'), and a
group of students were protesting near to the Cult of Scientology
building. For reasons I'm still not too clear on they started singing
'Still Alive' (end title music from 'Portal').
I was tempted to join in. I know the lyrics if nothing else.
Jim
--
Note to self: trademark the name "Load Bearing Member" so someone in
the porn industry will pay me a fortune.
http://www.UrsaMinorBeta.co.uk http://twitter.com/greyareauk
mrob...@worldnet.att.net
toil)
Jim <j...@magrathea.plus.com> wrote:
> Niklas Karlsson <ank...@yahoo.se> wrote:
>> Jim <j...@magrathea.plus.com> wrote:
>>> Tai <t...@urd.spidernet.to> wrote:
>>>> Jim <j...@magrathea.plus.com> wrote:
>>>>> Count yourself lucky - I bought and paid for the 'Mission Earth' lot. In
>>>>> hardback.
>>>>>
>>>>> I was young(er) and foolish(er), what can I say?
>>>>
>>>> Hey, I'm missing a few books in that series... :)
>>>
>>> No. No, trust me, you're not.
>>
>> And neither are you, at least if you have time to reload?
>
> I'd probably take the 'fire pit and lots of accelerant' approach
> personally. But I see where you're coming from.
So tracers really do work both ways.
Matt Roberds
Matt Erickson
Now taking donations for things to blow up with 12KV pulse cap, and
recorded in 720p, for the July 4th celerations around here. If the
pulse cap can't eat it, I'm sure we can devise other non-burning
methods of putting these papery zombies at rest.
Email address is valid.
--
Matt Erickson <pea...@peawee.net>
"But after writing the assembler, and then spending a couple days on the
welcome screen of the actual app, I ran out of patience and went back to
playing games." -- David Wojtowicz
stevo
> On Wed, 21 May 2008 16:56:38 +0100, Jim wrote:
>
>> Count yourself lucky - I bought and paid for the 'Mission Earth' lot. In
>> hardback.
>
> At the annual LASFS Gift Exchange, a set of the Drekology, as it's locally
> known, is considered as crud and unacceptable unless it's accompanied by
> appropriate crud insurance of at least $10 value. (That's the minimum
> value for an acceptable gift.)
>
random one and start reading until someone made a bid for them to shut
up. Then someone bought them to actually read. Haven't seen him back
since, for some reason.
Which also brings to mind, I wonder what happened to the garbage bag
full of Gor books?
--
Stevo st...@madcelt.org
"It's a bit like having sex with a jellyfish: once might an interesting
experiment, twice would be perversion!"
Grant Morrison on newsarama.com
David Cameron Staples
> Joe Zeff <the.guy.with....@lasfs.info> wrote:
>> On Wed, 21 May 2008 16:56:38 +0100, Jim wrote:
>>
>>> Count yourself lucky - I bought and paid for the 'Mission Earth' lot.
>>> In hardback.
>>
>> At the annual LASFS Gift Exchange, a set of the Drekology, as it's
>> locally known, is considered as crud and unacceptable unless it's
>> accompanied by appropriate crud insurance of at least $10 value.
>> (That's the minimum value for an acceptable gift.)
>>
> At the SwanCon auctions it used to be standard procedure to pick a
> random one and start reading until someone made a bid for them to shut
> up. Then someone bought them to actually read. Haven't seen him back
> since, for some reason.
>
> Which also brings to mind, I wonder what happened to the garbage bag
> full of Gor books?
Someone made the correct connection between the container and its
contents, and placed it carefully into the correct receptacle?
--
David Cameron Staples | staples AT csse DOT unimelb DOT edu DOT au
Melbourne University | School of Engineering | IT Support
Quanti canicula illa est in fenestra?
Mike Andrews
Roger Burton West <roger+a...@nospam.firedrake.org> wrote in
<20080522161419....@firedrake.org>:
> When one is being offered books, it's generally clear that if one
> doesn't take them they'll go either to the local charity shop (which
> usually throws things away if they don't sell in a few weeks) or
> straight to the dump. Just once in a while, they will be really amazing
> rarities. So one takes them.
This is how a friend wound up with a priceless set of Heinlein Juvies,
all library-bound and signed by the author: library discards. Really!
--
[...] the periodic and predictable system failures were a result of one part of
the system expecting the clock to count 1024 ticks per unit time, while the
other part thought the clock was counting 1000 ticks per unit time.
-- me in asr, on the Patriot missile system
David Gallatin
> On Wed, 21 May 2008 09:51:46 +0100,
> Paul Martin <p...@zetnet.net> wrote in
> <slrng37o...@thinkpad.nowster.org.uk>:
>
>> In article <ud4nhq...@qfy.cvcrk.pbz>,
>> Dave wrote:
>>> Matt Erickson <pea...@peawee.net> writes:
>
>>>> Any of you wonderful folks here have good starting points?
>
>>> Bell-ringing, as a way into group theory and thence to encryption and
>>> other places.
>
>> It would certainly make a change.
>
> And be totally appropriate for a Bob.
Go on, pull the other one.
Mike Andrews
David Gallatin <dgal...@mendicant.com> wrote in
<g149k...@news4.newsguy.com>:
A triple, please, Major.
--
I had NANAE and ASR mixed up - I thought NANAE was the place
where Useful Information is not allowed. I've not seen much of it
here lately. -- Steve Sobol, in NANAE
Brian Kantor
>
>I don't know if any of the rotor machines are actually hands-on, but
>they do have some Enigmas
There was a Enigma you could play with when I was there a few years back.
- Brian
David DeLaney
>>> On Wed, 21 May 2008 09:51:46 +0100,
>>> Paul Martin <p...@zetnet.net>
>>>>> Bell-ringing, as a way into group theory and thence to encryption and
>>>>> other places.
>>>> It would certainly make a change.
>>> And be totally appropriate for a Bob.
>> Go on, pull the other one.
>A triple, please, Major.
It does have a certain ap-peal.
Dave "hunting my coat - it was nine-tailored" DeLaney
--
\/David DeLaney posting from d...@vic.com "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
http://www.vic.com/~dbd/ - net.legends FAQ & Magic / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.
Mike Andrews
Michel Buijsman <ab...@rubberchicken.nl> wrote in
<mq5hg5-...@rubberchicken.nocrap>:
> On Wed, 21 May 2008 18:23:23 +0000 (UTC), Mike Andrews wrote:
>> Ths observation also is worth remembering:
>>
>> 'Dianetics' and 'Battlefield Earth'. "Burning books is *wrong*. So we shot
>> them instead." Apparently they do quite well as targets; whatever he was
>> using had as much trouble getting all the way through BE as many a human
>> reader. -- David Gerard, posting as Brian Harradine, in the Monastery
> Funny that, getting through Dianetics was no trouble at all.
> http://rubberchicken.nl/foto/flex-fun/img_0343.jpg
Ah, yes, the old "with a Dremel, all screw heads take a straight bit",
only writ large.
--
MASER, n.:
Mail Amplification by Stimulation of Emitted Rejections
-- Steve VanDevender, Patrick Wade
The Horny Goat
<jo...@jaka.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>On Fri, 16 May 2008 09:54:06 -0700, Steve VanDevender wrote:
>
>> Did that patent application come in before or after Neal Stephenson
>> published "Snow Crash", with its memorable scene involving Raven, Y.T.,
>> and her "dentata"?
>
>Oh, before. Well before. It was one of the older ones in the file of "Why
>the Hell would anyone patent this ?" that one of the guys there kept.
>I think there was also a reinvention of the chastity belt in the form of a
>set of lockable chainmail knickers in that file too.
> J
Hmmm. In one of Julian May's novels she had a mutant who actually DID
have 'dentata' of the kind I thought I was going to read about when I
un-ROTted your text. Can't remember if it was The Many-Colored Land,
The Golden Torc or The Non-Born King but one of those.
Garrett Wollman
The Horny Goat <lcr...@home.ca> wrote:
>Hmmm. In one of Julian May's novels she had a mutant who actually DID
>have 'dentata' of the kind I thought I was going to read about when I
>un-ROTted your text. Can't remember if it was The Many-Colored Land,
>The Golden Torc or The Non-Born King but one of those.
It would have been in /The Non-Born King/, if not /The Adversary/,
as Tony Wayland appears first in chapter 4 of /The Non-Born King/.
-GAWollman
--
Garrett A. Wollman | The real tragedy of human existence is not that we are
wol...@csail.mit.edu| nasty by nature, but that a cruel structural asymmetry
Opinions not those | grants to rare events of meanness such power to shape
of MIT or CSAIL. | our history. - S.J. Gould, Ten Thousand Acts of Kindness
The Horny Goat
(Garrett Wollman) wrote:
>In article <rtfg341cp19stu0d3...@4ax.com>,
>The Horny Goat <lcr...@home.ca> wrote:
>
>>Hmmm. In one of Julian May's novels she had a mutant who actually DID
>>have 'dentata' of the kind I thought I was going to read about when I
>>un-ROTted your text. Can't remember if it was The Many-Colored Land,
>>The Golden Torc or The Non-Born King but one of those.
>
>It would have been in /The Non-Born King/, if not /The Adversary/,
>as Tony Wayland appears first in chapter 4 of /The Non-Born King/.
You're probably right. I read those in grad school 20 years ago and
faithfully followed her second Trilogy (Diamond Mask, Jack the
Bodiless and Intervention) as each came out. I don't have an
encyclopedic memory for the details though enjoyed the series
immensely.
I seem to recall my reaction to the 'dentata' as "freirq gur svygul
ohttne evtug!"
Garrett Wollman
Much as I enjoy creating the impression that I know everything,[1] in
point of fact I looked it up. (At least the bit about chapter 4; I
knew that it involved Wayland, which had to put it in the second half
because he's a metallurgist and first appears while working for the
Lowlife Alliance in the Iron Villages. So I just had to find where
that particular scene began.) It doesn't hurt that my "Fiction L-Z"
bookcase happens to be right next the desk where I'm sitting, and the
books in question are right at eye level so it's trivial to grab one
and look something up -- although it's more common that I would grab
/A Pliocene Companion/.
-GAWollman
[1] Don't we all. Actually, I have to make some effort at $ork to
convince people that I *don't*, in fact, know everything, so that they
will occasionally bother other people. A life misspent absorbing
useless trivia is not necessarily a good thing, but it's the only one
I have (and I'm not a good-enough liar to get away with proclaiming
ignorance of something I know very well).
Mike Andrews
Garrett Wollman <wol...@bimajority.org> wrote in
<g1alei$2n7m$1...@grapevine.csail.mit.edu>:
> Much as I enjoy creating the impression that I know everything,[1]
> [1] Don't we all. Actually, I have to make some effort at $ork to
> convince people that I *don't*, in fact, know everything, so that they
> will occasionally bother other people. A life misspent absorbing
> useless trivia is not necessarily a good thing, but it's the only one
> I have (and I'm not a good-enough liar to get away with proclaiming
> ignorance of something I know very well).
You are me. You specialize in other things; e.g., broadcast transmitters
instead of Renaissance and medieval music. You are nonetheless me. Not
all trivia are "useless", and from time to time one or another of those
trivia have turned out to be mildly to critically useful.
The bag-full-o-trivia also is good for winning the annual Trivial
Pursuits games at Thanksgiving, at which I've typically taken on the
entire Barony for the last 5 years. I admit I don't do well on the pop
music, rock music, and movie stuff, but it's all crap and I can't be
arsed to intentionally shovel crap into my memory.
--
A friend told me about an evening he spent drinking beer and discussing
language features to hack into C++ with a group that included Bjarne
Stroustrup. My reaction was, "It all make sense now. C++ looks exactly
like a language designed by drunk people in a bar." -- Steve VanDevender
Garrett Wollman
Mike Andrews <mi...@mikea.ath.cx> wrote:
>The bag-full-o-trivia also is good for winning the annual Trivial
>Pursuits games at Thanksgiving, at which I've typically taken on the
>entire Barony for the last 5 years. I admit I don't do well on the pop
>music, rock music, and movie stuff, but it's all crap and I can't be
>arsed to intentionally shovel crap into my memory.
I could actually do a good bit of music if it were restricted to the
mid-to-late-'80s. (That's the 1980s, not the 1780s.) TV, too. Most
other popular culture has passed me by, which is the first reason I
give when people tell me I ought to try out for "Jeopardy!". (That's
not the real reason -- the real reason is that I don't have the
extrovert-sensate personality that the program's producers are looking
for, and could never convincingly fake it in an audition.)
Geography is probably my best subject. I was lucky enough to have
attended schools sufficiently behind the times that the instructors
still believed that Committing Things To Memory Is Important. Don't
ask me what I had for lunch a week ago, though.
-GAWollman
Garrett Wollman
>You are me. You specialize in other things; e.g., broadcast transmitters
>instead of Renaissance and medieval music. You are nonetheless me. Not
>all trivia are "useless", and from time to time one or another of those
>trivia have turned out to be mildly to critically useful.
It occurs to me that you, and several other participants here, might
actually enjoy reading the (now 25-year-old) series discussed
upthread, if you haven't already.[+] Last I checked, the descriptions
in Wackypedia were at least moderately accurate. I think the
following May quotation (from a 1983 interview) is the most telling:
When I was a very young writer, just after I had sold "Dune
Roller," I went to a writers' conference at Notre Dame. [She
was living in Chicago at the time. -GAW] Because I had a
piece that was actually going to appear in print, my story was
read by a distinguished American poet, John Frederick Nims.
Mr. Nims analyzed "Dune Roller" -- which is essentially a good
old monster story -- in such a fashion that I didn't know what
he was talking about! I only knew I hadn't written that in my
story, and I was incensed. From that moment on, I had it in
for academics . . .
By George, if that's what they liked to find in stories, I
decided I was going to be sure it was there -- and that I had
it reasonably under control. [...] In my novels, the
archetypes, the undercurrents, the different levels of meaning
are there. If you're not looking for them, I promise they
won't get in the way of the blood and guts and sex and fun.
But if you are looking, you can find something like six
different levels, all deliberately put there. [...] But I
try to keep those things under control.[*]
-GAWollman
[+] It's very likely that you can find the books in your local public
library, as they were the sort of SF that libraries were buying back
then. (I suspect they favorable reviews in publications librarians
read.) The titles are /The Many-Colored Land/, /The Golden Torc/,
/The Nonborn King/, and /The Adversary/ (with suitable spelling
alterations for the UK editions). Magic numbers are 033026656X,
0330267191, 033026902X, and 0330303090, respectively.
[*] Julian May and Robert A. Collins, "Julian May Interview", /A
Pliocene Companion/ (Boston: Houghton Mifflin, 1984), pp. 190-191.
Maarten Wiltink
news:g1alei$2n7m$1...@grapevine.csail.mit.edu...
(rearranged slightly)
> Much as I enjoy creating the impression that I know everything,[1]
> [1] Don't we all. Actually, I have to make some effort at $ork to
> convince people that I *don't*, in fact, know everything, so that
> they will occasionally bother other people.
An alternative strategy towards that is to convince them that enough
of what you're telling them is not, in fact, true. Or useful.
Note that I'm not saying it must be false - just that they should
be convinced (preferably by themselves) that when they ak you to
solve their problem, every once in a while they will get completely
bogged down in a quagmire of bullshit. Setting this up is liable to
take considerable time, but done well it is also very enjoyable.
They actually bought the Vegemite story (though not the dropbears).
> in point of fact I looked it up.
On the Internet, nobody knows you've been distracted for fifteen
minutes.
Tebrgwrf,
Maarten Wiltink
Mike Andrews
> In article <g1ank3$jfh$1...@parhelion.firedrake.org>,
> Mike Andrews <mi...@mikea.ath.cx> wrote:
>>You are me. You specialize in other things; e.g., broadcast transmitters
>>instead of Renaissance and medieval music. You are nonetheless me. Not
>>all trivia are "useless", and from time to time one or another of those
>>trivia have turned out to be mildly to critically useful.
> It occurs to me that you, and several other participants here, might
> actually enjoy reading the (now 25-year-old) series discussed
> upthread, if you haven't already.[+] Last I checked, the descriptions
> in Wackypedia were at least moderately accurate. I think the
> following May quotation (from a 1983 interview) is the most telling:
> When I was a very young writer, just after I had sold "Dune
> Roller," I went to a writers' conference at Notre Dame. [She
> was living in Chicago at the time. -GAW] Because I had a
> piece that was actually going to appear in print, my story was
> read by a distinguished American poet, John Frederick Nims.
> Mr. Nims analyzed "Dune Roller" -- which is essentially a good
> old monster story -- in such a fashion that I didn't know what
> he was talking about! I only knew I hadn't written that in my
> story, and I was incensed. From that moment on, I had it in
> for academics . . .
I find it decidedly odd that you should mention "Dune Roller", as it's
one of favorite stories. I first read it in the late 1950s, in an
anthology, and had thought that the writer was much older. Shows me
what _I_ know.
> By George, if that's what they liked to find in stories, I
> decided I was going to be sure it was there -- and that I had
> it reasonably under control. [...] In my novels, the
> archetypes, the undercurrents, the different levels of meaning
> are there. If you're not looking for them, I promise they
> won't get in the way of the blood and guts and sex and fun.
> But if you are looking, you can find something like six
> different levels, all deliberately put there. [...] But I
> try to keep those things under control.[*]
My English Lit. class at Rice, under John Velz of later fame, focused
on finding all the archetypes, undercurrents, themes of orders 2-N,
and so on. But Velz had a sense of humor, too, and so one class day
was devoted to discussion of a poet's (Houssman?) amazement at being
told what all the critics and analysts had managed to wring out of one
of his poems.
I forget which SF writer did a piece about Shakespeare being brought
forward in time to the 1970s or so. In the story, someone had the idea
of sending old Will through a college class on Shakespeare; Will's
comment was "Methinks they could wring a flood out of a damp clout!",
and the prof _flunked_ him.
I think there's less actual content in a lot of these analyses than
there is just plain verbiage.
> [+] It's very likely that you can find the books in your local public
> library, as they were the sort of SF that libraries were buying back
> then. (I suspect they favorable reviews in publications librarians
> read.) The titles are /The Many-Colored Land/, /The Golden Torc/,
> /The Nonborn King/, and /The Adversary/ (with suitable spelling
> alterations for the UK editions). Magic numbers are 033026656X,
> 0330267191, 033026902X, and 0330303090, respectively.
> [*] Julian May and Robert A. Collins, "Julian May Interview", /A
> Pliocene Companion/ (Boston: Houghton Mifflin, 1984), pp. 190-191.
Looks like I need to hit the used bookstores for Julian May. I recently
found that C. S. Friedman is one a couple of lists I frequent, but I
have taken care not to bother her by discussing her books, either on-
list (which would be off-topic) or off-list. Ditto, for other lists,
for Elizabeth Moon.
--
Lots of couples say, "We want a baby."
I never heard one say, "We want a teen-ager."
-- Ruth Moore, private communication
Maarten Wiltink
news:g1bab9$7ch$1...@parhelion.firedrake.org...
> [...] In the story, someone had the idea
> of sending old Will through a college class on Shakespeare; Will's
> comment was "Methinks they could wring a flood out of a damp clout!",
> and the prof _flunked_ him.
There is this movie in which Kurt Vonnegut figures...
> I think there's less actual content in a lot of these analyses than
> there is just plain verbiage.
From the library rejects bin, for two euros: Benita Parry, 'Conrad and
imperialism'. I can see why they threw it out. The introduction and two
chapters in, I have yet to encounter a sentence that is less than three
lines long. And I've looked.
Tebrgwrf,
Maarten Wiltink
Jasper Janssen
Wollman) wrote:
>Much as I enjoy creating the impression that I know everything,[1] in
>point of fact I looked it up. (At least the bit about chapter 4; I
>knew that it involved Wayland, which had to put it in the second half
>because he's a metallurgist and first appears while working for the
>Lowlife Alliance in the Iron Villages. So I just had to find where
>that particular scene began.) It doesn't hurt that my "Fiction L-Z"
>bookcase happens to be right next the desk where I'm sitting, and the
>books in question are right at eye level so it's trivial to grab one
>and look something up -- although it's more common that I would grab
>/A Pliocene Companion/.
The entire L-to-Z half of your fiction collection fits in one bookcase?
Jasper
Jasper Janssen
<maa...@kittensandcats.net> wrote:
>From the library rejects bin, for two euros: Benita Parry, 'Conrad and
>imperialism'. I can see why they threw it out. The introduction and two
>chapters in, I have yet to encounter a sentence that is less than three
>lines long. And I've looked.
But at least it's not a Conrad book by Frankowski.
Jasper
Mike Andrews
Jasper Janssen <jas...@jjanssen.org> wrote in
<l8qi34drfvqdl583l...@4ax.com>:
Ah, yes, coming in by time travel and reform the entire country in
6 months, remembering every single thing perfectly, getting it all
implemented without any process failures or real opposition (other than
opposition by the declared enemy of the country), and never ever making
a single misteak.
YeahRightSuuuuuuuuuure.
Mike Andrews
If he's like most of the BOFH types I know, that's just the L-Z expense
magazine, and it's replenished at need from the much larger L-Z primary
magazine. "Powder monkey! Fetch me ... !"
--
What about a toaster with a printer feature that sprays the
weather map onto your toast in butter, marmalade, blueberry jam,
and raspberry jam?
-- me, some years back, in a.s.r