Re: Dodging a bullet

[Julian Macassey]

On Mon, 01 Dec 2014 18:32:09 +0100, Gallian <gal...@linuxmail.org> wrote:
> So I thought to apply for a job that had slightly more perspective than
> my current one. Got invited for an interview, and it went reasonably
> well.
>
> This Friday I got a phone call from the HR guy sitting in. I was
> apparently too 'techie' for the team. For a position that was advertised
> as a Security Engineer.

I was interviewed by a "Major Hollywood Studio", they wanted
someone to migrate ther servers from New Jersey to California. I
explained how to do this to them and spent aeveral hours there.

I was not hired I was told I was "Too technical".
>
> It appears I narrowly escaped being drafted by a snake-oil seller.

I wonder if in my case they just wanted someone who could do
PowerPoint and Speradsheets with no idea of the how.


--
"Bankers are greedy, they've been greedy for the last hundreds of years.
- Nouriel Roubini, 7 July 2012

[Koos van den Hout]

Julian Macassey <jul...@tele.com> wrote in <slrnm7pen2...@adeed.tele.com>:

> I was interviewed by a "Major Hollywood Studio", they wanted
> someone to migrate ther servers from New Jersey to California. I
> explained how to do this to them and spent aeveral hours there.

> I was not hired I was told I was "Too technical".

Not even a thankyou note for helping them plan their entire move?

Koos

--
Camp Wireless, the site about wireless Internet | Koos van den Hout
access at campsites http://www.camp-wireless.org/ | http://idefix.net/
PGP keyid DSS/1024 0xF0D7C263 | IPv6 enabled!

[Alexander Schreiber]

Roger Bell_West <roger+a...@nospam.firedrake.org> wrote:

> On 2014-12-01, Julian Macassey wrote:
>> I was interviewed by a "Major Hollywood Studio", they wanted
>>someone to migrate ther servers from New Jersey to California. I
>>explained how to do this to them and spent aeveral hours there.
>>
>> I was not hired I was told I was "Too technical".
>

> Perhaps the answer they wanted was "Hire $SERVERMIGRATIONCO". But it
> seems odd to employ an extra person in that case.

Blame isolation? I.e. hire a new guy, give him the job for migration the
servers while dropping heavy hints about how this one particular company
should do it. When the digestive end product hits the air moving equipment,
blame the new guy and fire him, everybody wins. Well, except for the new
guy, but hey, omelettes and eggs and all that.

Said new guy actually having a clue would just screw with this plan.

Feeling mildly cynic,
Alex.
--
"Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls and
looks like work." -- Thomas A. Edison

[Wojciech Derechowski]

On Tue, 02 Dec 2014 00:07:56 +0000, Alexander Schreiber wrote:
> Roger Bell_West <roger+a...@nospam.firedrake.org> wrote:
>> On 2014-12-01, Julian Macassey wrote:

[...]

>> Perhaps the answer they wanted was "Hire $SERVERMIGRATIONCO". But it
>> seems odd to employ an extra person in that case.
>

> Blame isolation? [...] Said new guy actually having a clue would just screw
> with this plan.

Nothig easier that to put a blame on the arrogant, know-it-all, too technical
jerk who can't stand any incompetent idiots and therefore is not a good team
player. Notice how having a clue makes you socially awkward.

--
WD

Who is Entscheidungs and what is his problem?

[Alexander Schreiber]

IBTD. Not yelling "Kill the luser!" and "Fok julle naaiers"[0] whenever
one spots incompetent idiots at work helps with that ;-)

Kind regards,
Alex.
[0] STR

[Martijn Lievaart]

On Tue, 02 Dec 2014 10:19:20 +0100, Alexander Schreiber wrote:

> Wojciech Derechowski <wdd...@um5000.mystora.com> wrote:

>> Nothig easier that to put a blame on the arrogant, know-it-all, too
>> technical jerk who can't stand any incompetent idiots and therefore is
>> not a good team player. Notice how having a clue makes you socially
>> awkward.
>
> IBTD. Not yelling "Kill the luser!" and "Fok julle naaiers"[0] whenever
> one spots incompetent idiots at work helps with that ;-)

Having a closure code pebkac in the incident system also helps.

M4

[David Gersic]

On Mon, 1 Dec 2014 19:00:33 +0000 (UTC), Julian Macassey <jul...@tele.com> wrote:
> I was interviewed by a "Major Hollywood Studio", they wanted
> someone to migrate ther servers from New Jersey to California. I
> explained how to do this to them and spent aeveral hours there.

FedEx?

[Martijn Lievaart]

Rsync!

M4

-- I know, bordering on UI --

[Wojciech Derechowski]

On Tue, 02 Dec 2014 18:12:45 +0000, Martijn Lievaart wrote:
> On Tue, 02 Dec 2014 18:06:43 +0000, David Gersic wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 1 Dec 2014 19:00:33 +0000 (UTC), Julian Macassey
>> <jul...@tele.com> wrote:

>>>[...]

>>> I explained how to do this to them and spent aeveral hours there.
>>
>> FedEx?
>
> Rsync!
>
> M4
>
> -- I know, bordering on UI --

No. Go on.

[Martijn Lievaart]

On Wed, 03 Dec 2014 06:12:00 +0000, Wojciech Derechowski wrote:

> On Tue, 02 Dec 2014 18:12:45 +0000, Martijn Lievaart wrote:
>> On Tue, 02 Dec 2014 18:06:43 +0000, David Gersic wrote:
>>
>>> On Mon, 1 Dec 2014 19:00:33 +0000 (UTC), Julian Macassey
>>> <jul...@tele.com> wrote:
>>>>[...]
>>>> I explained how to do this to them and spent aeveral hours there.
>>>
>>> FedEx?
>>
>> Rsync!
>>
>> M4
>>
>> -- I know, bordering on UI --
>
> No. Go on.

In that case I can only point to rfc 1149 and 2549 to make the migration
a bit more environmentaly friendly.

M4

[David Gersic]

I've never successfully gotten rsync to move a _server_ anywhere.

I was wondering if this interview question was really to see if
Julian would turn it in to a variation on the old math / logic
problem of having to move a basket of grain, a duck, and a wolf
across a river using a boat that can only carry you and one other
item at a time.

Ok, so first we ship the development servers to California. Then
we ship the QA servers to California, and ship the dev servers
back to New Jersey...

[Mike A]

David Gersic <usenet_s...@zaccaria-pinball.com> wrote in <m5njet$29c$1...@dont-email.me>:

Old Gallegher routine:

"Hi. I'm going to Topeka. I'd like this bag to go to Seattle; the red one goes
to San Diego; the blue one to Boston, and the one with the yellow stripe to
Tampa.:
"Sir, we can't do that!"
"You did it the last time I flew with you."

--
Knowledge is power. Power corrupts. Study hard, be evil.
-- from a post by HL Margarite McBridin

[Shmuel Metz]

In <ris2lb-...@news.rtij.nl>, on 12/03/2014

at 09:00 AM, Martijn Lievaart <m...@rtij.nl.invlalid> said:

>In that case I can only point to rfc 1149 and 2549 to make the
>migration a bit more environmentaly friendly.

How archaic! <UI>6214</UI>, Shirley.


--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz <http://patriot.net/~shmuel> ISO position
Reply to domain Patriot dot net user shmuel+bspfh to contact me.
We don't care. We don't have to care, we're Congress.
(S877: The Shut up and Eat Your spam act of 2003)

[LP]

On 2014-12-01, Julian Macassey <jul...@tele.com> wrote:
>
> I was interviewed by a "Major Hollywood Studio", they wanted
> someone to migrate ther servers from New Jersey to California. I
> explained how to do this to them and spent aeveral hours there.
>
> I was not hired I was told I was "Too technical".

Presumably they were just looking for someone who can drive the truck?

-Paul
--
http://paulseward.com

[Mike A]

LP <use...@lpbk.net> wrote in <slrnm80so3...@benrinnes.dreamhost.com>:

My cynical side tells me they wanted to get a move plan for free.

My practical side agrees.

--
I see that your skrode is not running current-level code for one
or more functions. Just a minute. There! Now, go update the code
of every skrode you happen upon. Welcome to our Brave New Bligh^W
Universe. And don't feel compelled to do any of this. Just do it.

[Martijn Lievaart]

On Thu, 04 Dec 2014 09:25:00 -0600, Mike A wrote:

> LP <use...@lpbk.net> wrote in

>> Presumably they were just looking for someone who can drive the truck?
>
> My cynical side tells me they wanted to get a move plan for free.
>
> My practical side agrees.

"Never attribute to malice which can be explained by stupidity."

M4

-- Gets validated every day. Yuck --

[Erwan David]

Satya <sat...@satyaonline.cjb.net> disait le 12/04/14 que :

> Qhevat zl erprag wbo frnepu, gur erpehvgref gbyq zr gung frireny pbzcnavrf unq
> erwrpgrq zr orpnhfr V "qvqa'g frrz cnffvbangr" nobhg gur pbzcnal naq vgf
> cebqhpgf. Nccneragyl fubjvat hc sbe (naq fgnlvat guebhtu) n zhygv-ubhe
> vagreivrj cebprff vfa'g cnffvbangr rabhtu nal zber.

Lbh jrer yhpxl trggvat n ernfba sbe erwrpgvba...

--
Les simplifications c'est trop compliqué

[Peter H. Coffin]

On Thu, 4 Dec 2014 18:22:35 +0000 (UTC), Roger Bell_West wrote:

> On 2014-12-04, Satya wrote:
>>Qhevat zl erprag wbo frnepu, gur erpehvgref gbyq zr gung frireny pbzcnavrf unq
>>erwrpgrq zr orpnhfr V "qvqa'g frrz cnffvbangr" nobhg gur pbzcnal naq vgf
>>cebqhpgf. Nccneragyl fubjvat hc sbe (naq fgnlvat guebhtu) n zhygv-ubhe
>>vagreivrj cebprff vfa'g cnffvbangr rabhtu nal zber.
>

> "Cnffvbangr" vf pbqr sbe "jvyy pneel ba jura haqre- be ha-cnvq".

Somehow, I don't think that'd mix well with my usual "I can do this crap
for *anybody*" demeanor. I need to work on the "You can't get this
anyplace else" part a bit more, though..

--
Because of the diverse conditions of humans, it happens that some acts
are virtuous to some people, as appropriate and suitable to them, while
the same acts are immoral for others, as inappropriate to them.
-- Saint Thomas Aquinas

[Ned Brickley]

I've run into a somewhat similar situation.

I happen to see job opening on job board. I don't need a new job, but
decide to look at it. I'm a near perfect fit.

Preceed to company A's web site and see that they have just been
acquired by Company B. I know people at Company B including Brother
Inlaw.

I send note to him with a bit of mirth attached.

3 Days later, Company C, where I work, informs me that I won't be
allowed to play in the sandbox after the first of the year.

I contact BiL and send CV to him. He hand delivers it to his friend in
HR who puts it in the system and newly acquired Company A.

I get a call from their HR drone. Set up interview. Talk with
department manager and he likes what I can bring. Set up second
interview with directory in Company A.

While that is going on, I'm talking with friends at Company B. The
security dude, who has been auditing Company A's systems prior to the
migration remarks, "I want all those morons FIRED!" He is happy that
it looks like I will be brought in since I would be a clean slate and
he knows me.

Time passes with no information. Ping BiL to see if he can find
anything out. He doesn't know and his Pal in HR doesn't know either.

I get a call from Company A's HR drone.

"We have decided not to proceed with the process."

Huh?

Contact BiL. He has no idea, and the job is still open. Considering
that the IT managers in Company A had been instructed by Company B to
double their IT staff, and the manager at Company A said he was going
to triple it, something odd happened.

Suspicion is a hiring freeze went into effect.

Meanwhile, a friend at Company C confidentially tells me his leaving
for a new postion with company that makes things that go KaBOOM for
the govt. He's only waiting for his security clearances to come
through. He will tell management that I am available.

When he announces his resignation, His manager, who was my manager for
a while before transferring to new department, calls me and asks if I
want to transfer in.

YES!

I've been trying to get to that group for a year and the manager has
wanted me to move in as well. Corporate bureaucracy and budgeting has
prevented this from happening.

Now it's just dealing with the internal paperwork to get me
transferred over. When I was placed on waivers, I was given a nice
severance package which kicks in 01/01/2015.

Now, if they can't get me switched over this month, I will effectively
be out of a job and on the package. However, I have been informed I
would be more then welcomed to return after termination.

So, get new job in old company, nice severance package and a paycheck.
Double pay! :)

Now if this scenario occurs, my only real concern will be retaining my
senority if/when called back if they can't complete the bureaucrating
nightmare that is Human Resources procedures.

On Mon, 01 Dec 2014 18:32:09 +0100, Gallian <gal...@linuxmail.org>
wrote:

>So I thought to apply for a job that had slightly more perspective than
>my current one. Got invited for an interview, and it went reasonably
>well.
>
>This Friday I got a phone call from the HR guy sitting in. I was
>apparently too 'techie' for the team. For a position that was advertised
>as a Security Engineer.
>

>It appears I narrowly escaped being drafted by a snake-oil seller.

--
"If these people only had a clue, they might only be... stupid."

[Steve VanDevender]

Ooooh. I thought you were suggesting a combination of rsync and m4,
which is disturbingly intriguing. but apparently "M4" is just how you
sign off. Which is still kind of disturbing.

--
Steve VanDevender "I ride the big iron" http://hexadecimal.uoregon.edu/
ste...@hexadecimal.uoregon.edu PGP keyprint 4AD7AF61F0B9DE87 522902969C0A7EE8
Little things break, circuitry burns / Time flies while my little world turns
Every day comes, every day goes / 100 years and nobody shows -- Happy Rhodes

[Richard Bos]

Steve VanDevender <ste...@hexadecimal.uoregon.edu> wrote:

> Martijn Lievaart <m...@rtij.nl.invlalid> writes:
>
> > M4
>
> Ooooh. I thought you were suggesting a combination of rsync and m4,
> which is disturbingly intriguing. but apparently "M4" is just how you
> sign off. Which is still kind of disturbing.

Yeah... who in his right mind wants to go to Swansea?

Richard

[Peter Corlett]

Richard Bos <rl...@xs4all.nl> wrote:
[The M4.]

> Yeah... who in his right mind wants to go to Swansea?

It *leaves* Swansea as well, of course. However, the other end is in
Gunnersbury which isn't really an improvement.

Top tip: At the London end, the M4 changes into the A4 without ceremony.
Proceed for about 1km, take one look at Satan's own roundabout at the end of
the road, dump the car and hop into the Mawson's Arms. It is impossible to
drink the pub dry, on account of it being attached to a rather large brewery.

[Richard Bos]

Extra top tip: provide a designated driver. Please.

Richard

[Peter Corlett]

Richard Bos <rl...@xs4all.nl> wrote:
> ab...@mooli.org.uk (Peter Corlett) wrote:
[...]

>> Top tip: At the London end, the M4 changes into the A4 without ceremony.
>> Proceed for about 1km, take one look at Satan's own roundabout at the end of
>> the road, dump the car and hop into the Mawson's Arms. It is impossible to
>> drink the pub dry, on account of it being attached to a rather large
>> brewery.
> Extra top tip: provide a designated driver. Please.

"You're too drunk to sing; you'll have to drive."

[Peter H. Coffin]

On Sun, 7 Dec 2014 14:59:24 +0000 (UTC), Peter Corlett wrote:

> Top tip: At the London end, the M4 changes into the A4 without
> ceremony. Proceed for about 1km, take one look at Satan's own
> roundabout at the end of the road, dump the car and hop into the
> Mawson's Arms. It is impossible to drink the pub dry, on account of it
> being attached to a rather large brewery.

I think it should be attempted now and then. I and an appreciable
portion of the internal IT staff of a two-letter-computer-company
make a valiant stab at draining a local distillery of their tasting
room weekly. And oddly, the other local Monk that supervisese these
miscreants doesn't seem to make it often. (Last Friday was the Repeal
Day party and co-temporal Release Day for the 2009 vintage Repeal Day
Rye. There's about a hundred bottles left of that stuff, and then we get
to wait until next year for the 2010 production. Luckily, I bought four
bottles, so I think I'll make it.)

--
89. After I capture the hero's superweapon, I will not immediately
disband my legions and relax my guard because I believe whoever
holds the weapon is unstoppable. After all, the hero held the
weapon and I took it from him. --Anspach's Evil Overlord list

[mrob...@att.net]

Peter Corlett <ab...@mooli.org.uk> wrote:
> Top tip: At the London end, the M4 changes into the A4 without
> ceremony. Proceed for about 1km, take one look at Satan's own
> roundabout at the end of the road, dump the car and hop into the
> Mawson's Arms.

<gargle> A roundabout with... traffic lights? Plus an interesting set
of "Keep Clear" boxes, and an overpass in the middle.

> It is impossible to drink the pub dry, on account of it being attached
> to a rather large brewery.

Even with lots of thirsty people operating in parallel? At some point
the restroom plumbing might become a limitation, but on the other hand,
the river is not far away. (Hopefully the waterworks intake is further
upstream.)

Also, said brewery is apparently aware that in recent centuries,
overhead imagery has become available to civilians, so putting a sign
flat on the roof can be effective. Whether this is done with $20 worth
of paint, $100 worth of plywood, or $250,000+ of taxpayer money is up
to how clever the PHBs are.

Matt Roberds

[Peter Corlett]

<mrob...@att.net> wrote:
> Peter Corlett <ab...@mooli.org.uk> wrote:
>> Top tip: At the London end, the M4 changes into the A4 without ceremony.
>> Proceed for about 1km, take one look at Satan's own roundabout at the end of
>> the road, dump the car and hop into the Mawson's Arms.
> <gargle> A roundabout with... traffic lights? Plus an interesting set of
> "Keep Clear" boxes, and an overpass in the middle.

Other countries have Interesting rules when it comes to roundabouts, but the UK
is fairly boring: it's just a load of T-junctions onto a main road that just
happens to loop round onto itself. From there, just apply the same formula of
badly-timed traffic lights, box junctions and other confusing signage to it as
for any other junction. Satan has *many* junctions in London, and I've
navigated quite a few of them on a bicycle.

Because of the existence of the box junction, I felt compelled to check the
local authority boundaries to see if it fell within the purview of the London
Borough of Hammersmith & Fulham, a Tory-controlled authority who have made a
point of wanking on about how the Council Tax has been going down year-on-year.
It does this by taking a junction from hell and then plastering it with traffic
lights, box junctions, and CCTV of high-enough quality to use in court to
collect punitive fines.

I've also seen what they charge for Business Rates, and wonder why anybody
would run a business in that area. But hey, the headline figure for Council
Tax is down!

>> It is impossible to drink the pub dry, on account of it being attached to a
>> rather large brewery.
> Even with lots of thirsty people operating in parallel? At some point the
> restroom plumbing might become a limitation, but on the other hand, the river
> is not far away. (Hopefully the waterworks intake is further upstream.)

We had a bofhbof back there in 2008, and the barmaid wasn't fazed at all. It's
about time we had another one. Roger?

> Also, said brewery is apparently aware that in recent centuries, overhead
> imagery has become available to civilians, so putting a sign flat on the roof
> can be effective. Whether this is done with $20 worth of paint, $100 worth
> of plywood, or $250,000+ of taxpayer money is up to how clever the PHBs are.

That white lettering on the roof has been there since Internet Time Immemorial,
i.e. at least the 1990s.

[Mike A]

Michel <ab...@rubberchicken.nl> wrote in <19jglb-...@rubberchicken.nocrap>:

> On Mon, 8 Dec 2014 12:08:42 +0000 (UTC), Peter Corlett wrote:
>> Other countries have Interesting rules when it comes to roundabouts, but
>> the UK is fairly boring:
>

> I have to admit that roundabouts make more sense in driveleftistan.
>
> To compensate, the UK is quite imaginative in what a roundabout _is_.
> Ranging from a white blob of faded paint in the middle of an otherwise
> unremarkable intersection to a few of them stuck together into a larger
> (and sometimes frightening[0]) whole.
>
> [0] Swindon. Within half a mile of getting into my first ever LHD car.

I'm still waiting for the next iteration of The Magic Roundabout, with another
level enveloping the first two. I can't see any reason for anyone to *do* it,
mind you, but that's never stopped anyone.

--
It is a source of much embarassment to me that I was distracted
by a combination of Usenet, Western European history, and writing
instead of wine, women and song.
-- Matt McLeod, in the Monastery

[Peter Corlett]

Mike A <mi...@mikea.ath.cx> wrote:
[...]

> I'm still waiting for the next iteration of The Magic Roundabout, with
> another level enveloping the first two. I can't see any reason for anyone to
> *do* it, mind you, but that's never stopped anyone.

There's not enough horizontal space to construct it. Clearly we need to go 3D
and build the Magic Flyover.

[Mike A]

Roger Bell_West <roger+a...@nospam.firedrake.org> wrote in <20141208144337....@firedrake.org>:

> On 2014-12-08, Mike A wrote:
>>I'm still waiting for the next iteration of The Magic Roundabout, with another
>>level enveloping the first two. I can't see any reason for anyone to *do* it,
>>mind you, but that's never stopped anyone.
>

> Surely, given your recent orkplace, you're familiar with the idea of
> using up the road-improvements budget so that it won't be cut for next
> year?

I've been moved, as of March this year, from WeBuildHighways to OhMess.
Willy-fscking-nilly, I might add: unplugged like a piece of equipment, and
assigned a new job in a new ooffice in a new building, with a new supervisor
(OK) and a new manager (spectacularly not OK). Now I'm a Security Analyst
for OhMess, and the mail filters for everyone are incorporated in a OhMess
Symantec Mail Gateway that does a spectacularly crappy job of it because the
Swerver Team guys who run it have found that if you have enough rules to do a
good job, mail somehow doesn't flow.

Meanwhile, I read AOL SCOMP reports, MS-ISAC reports, FBI reports, and the
like, and try to get problems hooked up with the right set of solvers. I don't
even get to *DO* anything myself any more; I'm just a traffic cop.

I had been with WeBuildHighways since 1977; being moved like this was a shock.
Oh, and I had to sign an agreement to being taken out of the Merit System's
"Classified Service", which had all sorts of protections, and moved into the
Unclassified service, where I can be fired for any reason at all or for none.

Retirement is scheduled for February or March 2016, when I will have been with
the state 39 years and can retire at 80%, and when Melody will be eligible
for Medicare Parts A and B.

--
Lots of couples say, "We want a baby."

I never heard one say, "We want a teen-ager."
-- Ruth Moore, private communication

[Måns Nilsson]

Den 2014-12-08 skrev Mike A <mi...@mikea.ath.cx>:

> I've been moved, as of March this year, from WeBuildHighways to OhMess.

Them fuckers. You deserve better.

--
Måns Nilsson primary/secondary/besserwisser/machina
MN-1334-RIPE +46 705 989668
YOU PICKED KARL MALDEN'S NOSE!!

[John F. Eldredge]

On Mon, 08 Dec 2014 14:44:15 +0000, Roger Bell_West wrote:

> On 2014-12-08, Mike A wrote:

>>I'm still waiting for the next iteration of The Magic Roundabout, with
>>another level enveloping the first two. I can't see any reason for
>>anyone to *do* it, mind you, but that's never stopped anyone.
>

> Surely, given your recent orkplace, you're familiar with the idea of
> using up the road-improvements budget so that it won't be cut for next
> year?

Just wait. Sooner or later someone will build one that incorporates
higher dimensions, so that taking the wrong exit will result in becoming
a mirror-image of your former self.

[mrob...@att.net]

Mike A <mi...@mikea.ath.cx> wrote:
> I've been moved, as of March this year, from WeBuildHighways to
> OhMess.

Hmm. *runs decoder ring* Did they offer you a red shirt?

> Now I'm a Security Analyst for OhMess, and the mail filters for
> everyone are incorporated in a OhMess Symantec Mail Gateway that does
> a spectacularly crappy job of it because the Swerver Team guys who run
> it have found that if you have enough rules to do a good job, mail
> somehow doesn't flow.

ISTR that you had some daemon-based boxes to do that at WBH. Maybe
they'd let you try one of those? (I'll wait for the laughter to stop.)

Perhaps their box is simply running out of space in the process table.
The last time I looked, S*m*nt*c needed about 17 processes running to
implement a desktop antivirus, so who knows how many thousands they
would require for a mail filter.

> Oh, and I had to sign an agreement to being taken out of the Merit
> System's "Classified Service", which had all sorts of protections, and
> moved into the Unclassified service, where I can be fired for any
> reason at all or for none.

Protip: That will happen about a week before you would otherwise retire.
Keep your landshark warmed up.

Matt Roberds

[mrob...@att.net]

Roger Bell_West <roger+a...@nospam.firedrake.org> wrote:

> On 2014-12-08, mrob...@att.net wrote:
>> <gargle> A roundabout with... traffic lights?
>

> That's actually quite usual here when traffic flow is heavy or
> asymmetrical; otherwise there can be a very long wait to get out of
> some of the roads.

So far, around the middle of .us, roundabouts are usually implemented in
place of traffic lights. Sometimes they really are an improvement;
sometimes not.

> An "emergency" overpass built in 1971 on the cheap by the famously
> corrupt firm Marples Ridgeway (the same firm that paid for the
> Beeching report which closed down much of Britain's railway system).

.us has somewhat the same problem, but in reverse. When new passenger
rail is proposed, we first have to spend several million dollars for a
study with earth-shattering conclusions, such as: use steel rails, 4'
8.5" apart, sitting on ties and then ballast, and try to more or less
follow the existing rail corridors. Once that is done, we can then
start scraping up the money for the next study, which figures out where
the stations might go, and how to set up the schedule so that the line
takes, say, 65 minutes from one end to the next. Finally, the freight
railroad that owns the tracks says "no", and we try again in 10 or 15
years.

Matt Roberds

[Alan J. Wylie]

"John F. Eldredge" <jo...@jfeldredge.com> writes:


> Just wait. Sooner or later someone will build one that incorporates
> higher dimensions, so that taking the wrong exit will result in becoming
> a mirror-image of your former self.

A *Highway* named Möbius?

--
Alan J. Wylie http://www.wylie.me.uk/

[Wojciech Derechowski]

On Tue, 09 Dec 2014 06:12:50 +0000, Alan J. Wylie wrote:
> "John F. Eldredge" <jo...@jfeldredge.com> writes:
>
>
>> Just wait. Sooner or later someone will build one that incorporates
>> higher dimensions, so that taking the wrong exit will result in becoming
>> a mirror-image of your former self.
>
> A *Highway* named Möbius?

Rather, a walk \mu(x). For extra credit of 1 mil frm Clay Institute prove it
has pseudorandom property:

\bigwedge_{n} \mid \sum_{x < n} \mu(x) \mid \sim \sqrt n


--
WD

Who is Entscheidungs and what is his problem?

[Richard Bos]

Odegra.

Richard

[David Scheidt]

Roger Bell_West <roger+a...@nospam.firedrake.org> wrote:
:On 2014-12-09, mrob...@att.net wrote:
:>So far, around the middle of .us, roundabouts are usually implemented in

:>place of traffic lights. Sometimes they really are an improvement;
:>sometimes not.

:Guidelines vary, but as far as I can see the combination of roundabout
:and traffic lights is only used when traffic is expected to be
:particularly heavy; otherwise it's just one or the other, or neither.

Roundabouts (in the modern engineered traffic control sense; the
things in eastern USA are not roundabouts) work best when the traffic
flow is at best moderate. They can work at heavier flows, under
specific circumstances, like a main road with a smaller cross street,
where there is little traffic entering from the side street.
Traffic can make a right (left, in deranged parts of the world), but
not too many lefts, because it creates a conflict with the main road
in the opposite direction.

The failure mode of an overloaded roundabout is also very bad, leading
to pretty bad gridlock. It's almost certainly better to replace the
roundabout with a signalized intersection, or intersections, than it is
to signalize the roundabout, but it's cheaper, faster, takes less
space, and requires less thought to add the lights.

In the US, a roundabout can be done in a smaller space than an
intersection with proper lanes for each direction, and it's cheaper to
build and run (no electricity, less maintanace.)


--
sig 85

[Mike A]

mrob...@att.net wrote in <m65rnn$pm6$1...@dont-email.me>:

I found out that I don't have to tell anyone but the Retirement System that
I'm retiring, and they don't tell the employing agency. Scroom!

--
Alas, my sources don't report when the first spam was sent. Probably about
2,500 years ago, but it went via Royal Mail and all I've seen so far is a
"while you were out" card pushed through the door this morning.
-- Peter Corlett

[Mike A]

Roger Bell_West <roger+a...@nospam.firedrake.org> wrote in <20141209174131...@firedrake.org>:

> On 2014-12-09, Mike A wrote:
>>mrob...@att.net wrote in <m65rnn$pm6$1...@dont-email.me>:

>>> Protip: That will happen about a week before you would otherwise retire.
>>> Keep your landshark warmed up.
>>I found out that I don't have to tell anyone but the Retirement System that
>>I'm retiring, and they don't tell the employing agency. Scroom!
>

> M'yeah, but presumably the date of "when I will have been with the
> state 39 years and can retire at 80%" is not a secret from the state.
>
> Cynical? Moi?

Ah, but they don't know what will trigger my retirement. And I can retire at
any time, now; in fact, I've done so once already, and decided it didn't pay
enough back then.

--
What is this that gloweth thus?
Can it be the power bus?
Yes, the smell and hideous hum
Indicant Potestatem Bum! -- Paul Martin, in the Monastery

[David Scheidt]

Roger Bell_West <roger+a...@nospam.firedrake.org> wrote:
:On 2014-12-09, David Scheidt wrote:
:>Roundabouts (in the modern engineered traffic control sense; the

:>things in eastern USA are not roundabouts)

:As I understand it, the terminology is more or less:

:USA: "modern roundabout" = Rest of World: "roundabout"
:USA: "roundabout"/"traffic circle" = Rest of World: "you WHAT?"

Pretty much, but things not unlike traffic circles exist in European
cities. Think, for instance, of Place de l'Étoile.

:I am faintly surprised at the implication that US traffic planning
:(away from the east coast) cares about space, considering how much of
:the US built environment seems to be predicated on the assumption that
:land is cheap and there's always going to be more available.

WEll, that's still the thinking some places, but if you're building
the roads after the growth, then it's a real consideration, because
you have to pay for the land you seize to put asphalt on.


--
sig 48

[Peter Corlett]

Michel <ab...@rubberchicken.nl> wrote:
[...]
> In the UK, a small roundabout is pretty much like any old intersection where
> any traffic from the right has right of way as it always does, and a big one
> is just a T junction onto a one-way street that's laid out in a circle.

It is perhaps easier to view them in historical order, in that the large
roundabout came first and is the one way street with priority given to traffic
already on it, and the newer mini-roundabouts being a dab of paint in the
centre of the junction to indicate that it should be treated like a roundabout
for the purposes of who has priority.

In practice, the paint is quickly washed away by the British Summer, but it
hardly matters because nobody paid a damn bit of attention to it even when new.
Roundabouts are basically just a formalisation of the informal rule of quiet
minor road giving way to busy major road, with various splashes of paint
existing to serve as a tie-breaker for when an alleged A-road is
indistinguishable from a goat track.

> A NL roundabout is a special affair with traffic *on* the roundabout, which
> is coming from the left, having right of way. This throws people into all
> kinds of odd behaviour cargo-culted from different situations.

How is that different from the UK situation apart from the obvious difference
of which side of the road one drives on and the resulting change of direction
around the roundabout? In both cases, traffic on the roundabout has priority.
I understood that most of the civilised world did this, with only a few oddball
countries like France picking the dangerous and damn silly rule of traffic on
the roundabout having to give way just to be contrary to the British.

I generally approve of being contrary to the British as many of my fellow
countrymen are contemptible arseholes of the highest order that could use a
good baiting from foreigners, but one has to draw a (double-dashed) line
somewhere...

[Joe Zeff]

On Tue, 09 Dec 2014 14:21:00 +0000, David Scheidt wrote:

> In the US, a roundabout can be done in a smaller space than an
> intersection with proper lanes for each direction, and it's cheaper to
> build and run (no electricity, less maintanace.)

Is there a reason that roundabouts don't need street lights? And, with
no signals, how do pedestrians get across? Special walkways?

--
Joe Zeff -- The Guy With The Sideburns:
http://www.zeff.us http://www.lasfs.info
Never take a sleeping pill and a laxative on the same evening.

[Joe Zeff]

On Tue, 09 Dec 2014 17:40:54 +0000, Roger Bell_West wrote:

> I am faintly surprised at the implication that US traffic planning (away
> from the east coast) cares about space, considering how much of the US
> built environment seems to be predicated on the assumption that land is
> cheap and there's always going to be more available.

Cloverleaf interchanges are a very efficient way of connecting two
highways. We don't build them any more because they use too much land.

--
Joe Zeff -- The Guy With The Sideburns:
http://www.zeff.us http://www.lasfs.info

"Always there are two, the BOFH and the PFY."

[Erwan David]

Joe Zeff <the.guy.with....@lasfsinc.info> disait le 12/09/14 que :

> On Tue, 09 Dec 2014 14:21:00 +0000, David Scheidt wrote:
>
>> In the US, a roundabout can be done in a smaller space than an
>> intersection with proper lanes for each direction, and it's cheaper to
>> build and run (no electricity, less maintanace.)
>
> Is there a reason that roundabouts don't need street lights? And, with
> no signals, how do pedestrians get across? Special walkways?

Cars are to stop if a pedestrian wants to cross. In theory no need for
signals, just what in France we call "Passage piétons" or "Passages
protégés".


--
Les simplifications c'est trop compliqué

[Marc Haber]

Joe Zeff <the.guy.with....@lasfsinc.info> wrote:
>On Tue, 09 Dec 2014 17:40:54 +0000, Roger Bell_West wrote:
>
>> I am faintly surprised at the implication that US traffic planning (away
>> from the east coast) cares about space, considering how much of the US
>> built environment seems to be predicated on the assumption that land is
>> cheap and there's always going to be more available.
>
>Cloverleaf interchanges are a very efficient way of connecting two
>highways. We don't build them any more because they use too much land.

What do you build instead? Even in Germany, a cloverleaf is still a
common way to build an Autobahnkreuz.

Greetings
Marc
--
-------------------------------------- !! No courtesy copies, please !! -----
Marc Haber | " Questions are the | Mailadresse im Header
Mannheim, Germany | Beginning of Wisdom " | http://www.zugschlus.de/
Nordisch by Nature | Lt. Worf, TNG "Rightful Heir" | Fon: *49 621 72739834

[Peter H. Coffin]

On Tue, 09 Dec 2014 19:05:43 GMT, Joe Zeff wrote:
> On Tue, 09 Dec 2014 14:21:00 +0000, David Scheidt wrote:
>
>> In the US, a roundabout can be done in a smaller space than an
>> intersection with proper lanes for each direction, and it's cheaper to
>> build and run (no electricity, less maintanace.)
>
> Is there a reason that roundabouts don't need street lights? And, with
> no signals, how do pedestrians get across? Special walkways?

There's the requirement to yeild to all traffic already on the ring.
Including pedestrians crossing spoke roads in order around the perimeter
usually. Smart pedestrians follow the flow of traffic of the roundabout
because they'll be seen from the same place drivers are already looking.
Dumb ones go upstream. Convincing pedestrians that there's a REASON they
should be taking "the long way around" is something of a challenge,
sometimes.

--
20. Despite its proven stress-relieving effect, I will not indulge in
maniacal laughter. When so occupied, it's too easy to miss
unexpected developments that a more attentive individual could
adjust to accordingly. --Peter Anspach's Evil Overlord list

[Peter H. Coffin]

On Tue, 09 Dec 2014 19:09:37 GMT, Joe Zeff wrote:
> On Tue, 09 Dec 2014 17:40:54 +0000, Roger Bell_West wrote:
>
>> I am faintly surprised at the implication that US traffic planning (away
>> from the east coast) cares about space, considering how much of the US
>> built environment seems to be predicated on the assumption that land is
>> cheap and there's always going to be more available.
>
> Cloverleaf interchanges are a very efficient way of connecting two
> highways. We don't build them any more because they use too much land.

Still happens when there's *enough* traffic and it's balanced well
enough in all directions. Where they're being replaced with other things
is where loads are unproportionate. One road flows straight through,
lighter road gets ... something else. What .dot.wi.us has been playing
with has been (on the lighter road) has been roundabout followed by
merge space, followed by sliproad to bigger road, followed by flyover
followed by sliproad FROM bigger road, merge space, roundabout, and
lesser road continues on. Getting to the "wrong" sliproad just means
going through the first roundabout, past flyover, reversing direction on
the second roundabout and slot onto the sliproad. Accommodates about 70%
of the load of the full clover, but needs only four sliproads instead
eight, a *lot* less space (as little 100m by 500m along the light road
centered at the heavy one). A full clover can take nearly a square km to
do right.

[Joe Zeff]

On Tue, 09 Dec 2014 21:12:20 +0100, Marc Haber wrote:

> What do you build instead? Even in Germany, a cloverleaf is still a
> common way to build an Autobahnkreuz.

We just have a set of ramps going from one freeway/highway to the other,
often with one ramp going over the other, or under one of the roads.
This takes up much less space in a built-up area because there's no
practical way to make much use of the ground inside the ramps of a
cloverleaf. What they do when they're well away from any built-up area,
I don't know.

--
Joe Zeff -- The Guy With The Sideburns:
http://www.zeff.us http://www.lasfs.info

I'll have to try and get an item written into the DR plan specifying a
run to Krispy Kreme for sysadmin fuel, since it'd no doubt be a long
night ahead.

[Joe Zeff]

On Tue, 09 Dec 2014 14:31:53 -0600, Peter H. Coffin wrote:

> Accommodates about 70%
> of the load of the full clover, but needs only four sliproads instead
> eight, a *lot* less space (as little 100m by 500m along the light road
> centered at the heavy one). A full clover can take nearly a square km to
> do right.

Out here, a cloverleaf needs exactly four ramps/sliproads because the
exits are after the roads cross, not before.[1] This way, you can go
from either road to the other in any direction by taking one, two or
three ramps, and four leaves you back where you started. Why do you need
eight? And, I don't know how much space our cloverleaves need, but a
square km doesn't sound unreasonable.

[1]Checking Pickiwedia, I see the difference. Their diagram (https://
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cloverleaf_interchange#mediaviewer/
File:Cloverleaf_interchange.svg) shows what I would consider a cloverleaf
with a set of four roads surrounding it. The ones I'm familiar with
in .la.ca.us don't have those, just the four inner parts, making them
look much more like a cloverleaf that what's pictured here.

--
Joe Zeff -- The Guy With The Sideburns:
http://www.zeff.us http://www.lasfs.info

"Is this one of those times when i should be crying out "Ugol!!" ?

[Chris Adams]

Once upon a time, Joe Zeff <the.guy.with....@lasfsinc.info> said:
>[1]Checking Pickiwedia, I see the difference. Their diagram (https://
>en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cloverleaf_interchange#mediaviewer/
>File:Cloverleaf_interchange.svg) shows what I would consider a cloverleaf
>with a set of four roads surrounding it. The ones I'm familiar with
>in .la.ca.us don't have those, just the four inner parts, making them
>look much more like a cloverleaf that what's pictured here.

I prefer the Inescapable Cloverleaf:

http://xkcd.com/253/
--
Chris Adams <cma...@cmadams.net>

[David Scheidt]

Joe Zeff <the.guy.with....@lasfsinc.info> wrote:

:On Tue, 09 Dec 2014 17:40:54 +0000, Roger Bell_West wrote:

:> I am faintly surprised at the implication that US traffic planning (away
:> from the east coast) cares about space, considering how much of the US
:> built environment seems to be predicated on the assumption that land is
:> cheap and there's always going to be more available.

:Cloverleaf interchanges are a very efficient way of connecting two
:highways. We don't build them any more because they use too much land.

Cloverleafs have lots of other problems, chief among them that traffic
entering on the second ramp each direction conflicts with traffic
trying to exit on the third ramp each direction. That greatly limits
the amount of traffic that such an intersection can cope with. There
are better choices, espcially if the traffic for one of the roads does
not need to be free flowing.

--
sig 104

[The Horny Goat]

On Mon, 8 Dec 2014 08:28:12 -0600, Mike A <mi...@mikea.ath.cx> wrote:

>I'm still waiting for the next iteration of The Magic Roundabout, with another
>level enveloping the first two. I can't see any reason for anyone to *do* it,
>mind you, but that's never stopped anyone.

I'm quite sure I passed half a dozen people coming into work this
morning who from the way each of them drove would think nothing of
attempting such a thing.

I expect to meet St. Peter eventually - I hope not to do it TODAY!

[Joe Zeff]

On Tue, 09 Dec 2014 22:42:42 +0000, David Scheidt wrote:

> Cloverleafs have lots of other problems, chief among them that traffic
> entering on the second ramp each direction conflicts with traffic trying
> to exit on the third ramp each direction. That greatly limits the
> amount of traffic that such an intersection can cope with. There are
> better choices, espcially if the traffic for one of the roads does not
> need to be free flowing.

This may be why the cloverleafs out here don't have the outside roads.
Yes, it limits their capacity but it also removes a source of congestion.

--
Joe Zeff -- The Guy With The Sideburns:
http://www.zeff.us http://www.lasfs.info

"If you haven't seen it, it's new to you."

[David Scheidt]

Joe Zeff <the.guy.with....@lasfsinc.info> wrote:

:On Tue, 09 Dec 2014 22:42:42 +0000, David Scheidt wrote:

:> Cloverleafs have lots of other problems, chief among them that traffic
:> entering on the second ramp each direction conflicts with traffic trying
:> to exit on the third ramp each direction. That greatly limits the
:> amount of traffic that such an intersection can cope with. There are
:> better choices, espcially if the traffic for one of the roads does not
:> need to be free flowing.

:This may be why the cloverleafs out here don't have the outside roads.
:Yes, it limits their capacity but it also removes a source of congestion.

No, it doesn't. The outside ramps are an exit (so, no conflict) and
an entrance (last, so no conflict), respectively. They can conlict if
you've got exits jammed together, but it's the inner ones that are enter
before exit. Removing the inner ones, on the other hand, does remove
conflicts. it doesn't save much space. There are other ways to make
interchanges take less space, or reduce conflicts, or both. They're
expensive, and require lots of bridges. The intersection of US-101
and whatever that other road is near you is an example.




--
sig 68

[Wojciech Derechowski]

On Wed, 10 Dec 2014 00:48:01 +0000, The Horny Goat wrote:
[...]

> I expect to meet St. Peter eventually - I hope not to do it TODAY!

That's easy assuming he asks you about air-speed velocity
of an unladen swallow.

--
WD

Who is Entscheidungs and what is his problem?

[Koos van den Hout]

Roger Bell_West <roger+a...@nospam.firedrake.org> wrote in <20141210092455....@firedrake.org>:

> I'm sure I've said this here before, but priorité a droite is a big
> political thing in France (the inalienable right of the farmer to pull
> out onto the main road without caring who's already on it, or
> something) - they had to fight quite hard to get autoroutes exempted
> from it, or every entry slip (on-ramp) would have had priority over
> the main carriageway.

So that's why every on-ramp in .fr has a sign explaining this detail "vous
n'avez pas la priorité" while at the same time being the country where I
most expect drivers to ignore this sign and dive into traffic.

Koos

--
The Virtual Bookcase, the site about books, book | Koos van den Hout
news and reviews http://www.virtualbookcase.com/ | http://idefix.net/
PGP keyid DSS/1024 0xF0D7C263 | IPv6 enabled!

[Shmuel Metz]

In <20141209174131...@firedrake.org>, on 12/09/2014
at 05:42 PM, Roger Bell_West <roger+a...@nospam.firedrake.org>
said:

>$max = [$a => $b] -> [ $a <= $b ];

It's only obscure in the sense of "Why would anybody in his right mind
do it that way?" Take it away, please.


--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz <http://patriot.net/~shmuel> ISO position
Reply to domain Patriot dot net user shmuel+bspfh to contact me.
We don't care. We don't have to care, we're Congress.
(S877: The Shut up and Eat Your spam act of 2003)

[Shmuel Metz]

In <20141209172655....@firedrake.org>, on 12/09/2014
at 05:40 PM, Roger Bell_West <roger+a...@nospam.firedrake.org>
said:

>[0] I think this is an entirely appropriate usage of the generic
>currency sign.

So I should have stuck with Latin-1, which has the currency sign but
doesn't have the €uro sign?

[Shmuel Metz]

In <slrnm8en1p....@nibelheim.ninehells.com>, on 12/09/2014

at 02:31 PM, "Peter H. Coffin" <hel...@ninehells.com> said:

>Still happens when there's *enough* traffic and it's balanced well
>enough in all directions. Where they're being replaced with other
>things is where loads are unproportionate.

Take the Shirlington intersection with Shirley Highway (I-395, née
I-95). Please!

There used to be a perfectly respectable traffic cicle there, then Mr.
Goldberg redesigned it.

[Marc Haber]

Joe Zeff <the.guy.with....@lasfsinc.info> wrote:
>On Tue, 09 Dec 2014 21:12:20 +0100, Marc Haber wrote:
>> What do you build instead? Even in Germany, a cloverleaf is still a
>> common way to build an Autobahnkreuz.
>
>We just have a set of ramps going from one freeway/highway to the other,
>often with one ramp going over the other, or under one of the roads.

Sounds awfully expensive. A clover leaf needs a single bridge and a
bit of space.

Greetings
Marc
ö
--
-------------------------------------- !! No courtesy copies, please !! -----
Marc Haber | " Questions are the | Mailadresse im Header
Mannheim, Germany | Beginning of Wisdom " | http://www.zugschlus.de/
Nordisch by Nature | Lt. Worf, TNG "Rightful Heir" | Fon: *49 621 72739834

[The Horny Goat]

On Mon, 8 Dec 2014 09:04:53 -0600, Mike A <mi...@mikea.ath.cx> wrote:

>Retirement is scheduled for February or March 2016, when I will have been with
>the state 39 years and can retire at 80%, and when Melody will be eligible
>for Medicare Parts A and B.

I read your signature ("we want a baby!") and parsed it with the above
comment thinking you meant the two back to back.

Glad to hear it's my bad parsing rather than paternal instincts. At my
present age (my youngest is 23 and we had him when I was 35) I don't
know what I'd do if the better half said 'the rabbit died

[Joe Zeff]

On Wed, 10 Dec 2014 20:28:35 +0100, Marc Haber wrote:

> Sounds awfully expensive. A clover leaf needs a single bridge and a bit
> of space.

Further checking tells me that what we use is either a cloverstack or a
turbine interchange.

--
Joe Zeff -- The Guy With The Sideburns:
http://www.zeff.us http://www.lasfs.info

Where there's a flamethrower, there's a way.

[Joe Zeff]

On Wed, 10 Dec 2014 02:50:42 +0000, David Scheidt wrote:

> The intersection of US-101 and whatever that
> other road is near you is an example.

I presume that you're talking about the 405, AKA the San Diego Freeway.
That's a good 20 miles from here, and not the nearest interchange,
although the 23 freeway ends at US 101.

--
Joe Zeff -- The Guy With The Sideburns:
http://www.zeff.us http://www.lasfs.info

Make welfare as hard to get as a building permit.

[David Scheidt]

Joe Zeff <the.guy.with....@lasfsinc.info> wrote:

:On Wed, 10 Dec 2014 02:50:42 +0000, David Scheidt wrote:

:> The intersection of US-101 and whatever that
:> other road is near you is an example.

:I presume that you're talking about the 405, AKA the San Diego Freeway.
:That's a good 20 miles from here, and not the nearest interchange,
:although the 23 freeway ends at US 101.

No, it's some state highway (It used to be US66, but it's been
renumbered.) 110 maybe. I stay away from LA, so I don't remember.

--
sig 86

[Joe Zeff]

On Thu, 11 Dec 2014 02:39:12 +0000, David Scheidt wrote:

> No, it's some state highway (It used to be US66, but it's been
> renumbered.) 110 maybe. I stay away from LA, so I don't remember.

There's a big cloverleaf (with the outside roads) where I-110 crosses
C-91 just east of where Artesia Blvd becomes a freeway. If that's what
you're thinking of, it's over an hour from here by freeway, even if
traffic doesn't slow me down. The one where I-110 and I-405 cross is
somewhat more complicated, but takes up much less room.

--
Joe Zeff -- The Guy With The Sideburns:
http://www.zeff.us http://www.lasfs.info

The problem with being a good sport is that you have to lose to prove it.

[Marc Haber]

Joe Zeff <the.guy.with....@lasfsinc.info> wrote:
>On Wed, 10 Dec 2014 20:28:35 +0100, Marc Haber wrote:
>> Sounds awfully expensive. A clover leaf needs a single bridge and a bit
>> of space.
>
>Further checking tells me that what we use is either a cloverstack or a
>turbine interchange.

Those designs are much more expensive with regards to bridges. They do
save space and can be driven through at higher speeds. German builders
use those designs (or mixtures thereof) in the case when there is
strong traffic actually changing the highway at the interchange.

Greetings
Marc

[Wojciech Derechowski]

Feel happy and grateful? It never happend to me. I never wanted a little
copy of myself, and my better half, which is far more important, never
believed in replication either. Still it must be quite surreal when
somebody not unlike you goes "Daddy" and you whack them.

--
WD

PS.: Princess Monaco of Kent has had twins which was announced this morning
and duly noted by my wife for some reason.

[Steve VanDevender]

al...@wylie.me.uk (Alan J. Wylie) writes:

> "John F. Eldredge" <jo...@jfeldredge.com> writes:
>
>
>> Just wait. Sooner or later someone will build one that incorporates
>> higher dimensions, so that taking the wrong exit will result in becoming
>> a mirror-image of your former self.
>
> A *Highway* named Möbius?

There's a Futurama episode where they have a Möbius-strip-shaped
racetrack. And a combination of a head-on collision and the Professor's
"dimensional drift" sends them all to Flatland.

--
Steve VanDevender "I ride the big iron" http://hexadecimal.uoregon.edu/
ste...@hexadecimal.uoregon.edu PGP keyprint 4AD7AF61F0B9DE87 522902969C0A7EE8
Little things break, circuitry burns / Time flies while my little world turns
Every day comes, every day goes / 100 years and nobody shows -- Happy Rhodes

[Måns Nilsson]

Den 2014-12-11 skrev Wojciech Derechowski <wdd...@um5000.mystora.com>:

> Still it must be quite surreal when
> somebody not unlike you goes "Daddy" and you whack them.

It is, because you do not do that. Sometimes people who have been whacked
by their parents feel the need to pass that idea on, but once you think
of it, you realise that it won´t really do any good. It IS a struggle,
but when it comes out right, it works just fine.

--
Måns Nilsson primary/secondary/besserwisser/machina
MN-1334-RIPE +46 705 989668
I am having FUN... I wonder if it's NET FUN or GROSS FUN?

[Martijn Lievaart]

On Wed, 10 Dec 2014 09:44:59 +0000, Roger Bell_West wrote:

> Even where motorway meets motorway and there's no intention of stopping
> traffic, we tend to avoid the weaving situation that occurs when
> vehicles entering the motorway have to share roads with vehicles coming
> off it. Sometimes we have full or partial cloverleaf designs (e.g. GBR
> G91.4N6 51.5610/-0.5307) but even then we take all the exiting traffic
> away before allowing entering traffic to join.

People cannot join efficiently, often crossing the uninterrupted lines
before where they are allowed to enter, causing completely unnecessary
jams. So it makes sense to let others exit early thus not making the mess
any bigger than it already is.

M4

[The Horny Goat]

On Thu, 11 Dec 2014 08:15:49 -0000, Wojciech Derechowski
<wdd...@um5000.mystora.com> wrote:

>> I read your signature ("we want a baby!") and parsed it with the above
>> comment thinking you meant the two back to back.
>>
>> Glad to hear it's my bad parsing rather than paternal instincts. At my
>> present age (my youngest is 23 and we had him when I was 35) I don't
>> know what I'd do if the better half said 'the rabbit died
>
>Feel happy and grateful? It never happend to me. I never wanted a little
>copy of myself, and my better half, which is far more important, never
>believed in replication either. Still it must be quite surreal when
>somebody not unlike you goes "Daddy" and you whack them.

Good for them - glad to hear all are healthy and I hope stay that way.

I had 3 and both daughters and my son are extremely bright in various
ways - one history/law, one graphic design the third working on his
electrical engineering degree by extension while doing hardware tech
support at the local science center by day (and getting much more
varied experience than he would in a standard engineering shop).

This is the one I've spoken of previously who did decidedly monk-ish
stuff when he was 3 like inserting a crayon (which was exactly the
right size) into our natural gas fireplace flue to see what would
happen or inserted TWO 3.5" diskettes into my drive to see if he could
get it to work. Purely as an experiment try that if you have a 3.5"
drive available to you - it requires an impressive amount of force to
achieve. He did numerous other items later and convinced us to replace
several of our store's lamps with LED lamps and beam lamp type LEDs.

Of course not everything he did worked out well - using the college's
programmable laser cutter he cut our store's logo onto the doors of
the case he'd built for us out of #10 steel .... regretably he wasn't
careful enough and found AFTER he'd welded the logo on that the way
the hinges were hung he had done it upside down..... but on the whole
is batting average is pretty good and now has experience with both
North American and European wiring and exhibit design.....

His sisters will never be monks in the ASR sense but no question he is
working out just fine in the hardware end - though he is mostly into
hardware controllers rather than the sort of thing most sysadmins do.