Google Groups no longer supports new Usenet posts or subscriptions. Historical content remains viewable.
Dismiss

Dell XPS 600 motherboard failure

14 views
Skip to first unread message

E

unread,
May 8, 2010, 1:31:15 AM5/8/10
to

Hi

A friend asked me to fix her Dell XPS 600.

You try to turn it on, the fans spin, and it shuts itself off after a
few seconds. I have searched the web and found several posts in message
boards where people have the exact same problem with this machine.

Here is one of my favorites, twelfth poster in the thread...
http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/255446-28-dell-dead
> I had two tall caps to the lower right of the ram slots blow out
> the top and a wire coiled inducter right next to them get charred.
> Ive found several other rports of this same thing from others.

I found the same thing in this machine after I had cleaned the dust out,
but wasn't sure at the time if the components looked like that anyway.
Then I read his post which confirms it. I have disconnected/removed
almost everything and it still will shut itself off after a few seconds.

I'm not sure if I will be able to find a replacement motherboard to fit
in the Dell case and and have a compatible power connector, etc. for the
Dell PSU. Or if the factory installed Dell 650W PSU is what fried the
original motherboard.

Entering the service tag into Dell Support shows that the CPU is a
Pentium D Presler 930, 3.0G, 2X2M, C1. One idea is to find the latest
motherboard that still supports this chip, and put it into a new case
with a standard (but good) power supply. Or a cheap yet reliable
motherboard that will support this chip.

I would at least like to salvage the plug in cards, disk drives, etc.

Thanks in advance for any ideas (including buy a new one)
Ed

Man-wai Chang to The Door (33600bps)

unread,
May 8, 2010, 4:36:46 AM5/8/10
to
On 5/8/2010 13:31, E wrote:
>
>
> Hi
>
> A friend asked me to fix her Dell XPS 600.
>
> You try to turn it on, the fans spin, and it shuts itself off after a
> few seconds. I have searched the web and found several posts in message
> boards where people have the exact same problem with this machine.

Do you know how to open the case?

Unplug everything except display card (if any), CPU, RAM & keyboard. Try
again and report back!

--
@~@ Might, Courage, Vision, SINCERITY.
/ v \ Simplicity is Beauty! May the Force and Farce be with you!
/( _ )\ (x86_64 Ubuntu 9.10) Linux 2.6.33.3
^ ^ 16:36:01 up 3 days 18 min 2 users load average: 1.04 1.06 1.00
不借貸! 不詐騙! 不援交! 不打交! 不打劫! 不自殺! 請考慮綜援 (CSSA):
http://www.swd.gov.hk/tc/index/site_pubsvc/page_socsecu/sub_addressesa

E

unread,
May 8, 2010, 7:41:27 AM5/8/10
to
Man-wai Chang to The Door (33600bps) wrote:
> On 5/8/2010 13:31, E wrote:
>>
>>
>> Hi
>>
>> A friend asked me to fix her Dell XPS 600.
>>
>> You try to turn it on, the fans spin, and it shuts itself off after a
>> few seconds. I have searched the web and found several posts in message
>> boards where people have the exact same problem with this machine.
>
> Do you know how to open the case?
>
> Unplug everything except display card (if any), CPU, RAM & keyboard. Try
> again and report back!
>
Maybe my message was too long. I did that. I know the MB or PSU has
failed. I just need a Pentium D socket 775 replacement motherboard.

philo

unread,
May 8, 2010, 7:59:15 AM5/8/10
to
On 05/08/2010 12:31 AM, E wrote:
>
>
> Hi
>
> A friend asked me to fix her Dell XPS 600.
>
> You try to turn it on, the fans spin, and it shuts itself off after a
> few seconds. I have searched the web and found several posts in message
> boards where people have the exact same problem with this machine.
>
> Here is one of my favorites, twelfth poster in the thread...
> http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/255446-28-dell-dead
>> I had two tall caps to the lower right of the ram slots blow out the
>> top and a wire coiled inducter right next to them get charred. Ive
>> found several other rports of this same thing from others.
>
> I found the same thing in this machine after I had cleaned the dust out,
> but wasn't sure at the time if the components looked like that anyway.
> Then I read his post which confirms it. I have disconnected/removed
> almost everything and it still will shut itself off after a few seconds.
>


No need to go further...
if the caps are bad...it's time for a new mobo

Paul

unread,
May 8, 2010, 10:55:18 AM5/8/10
to

Does the Dell software CD that restores the OS, work with a third-party
(non-Dell) motherboard ? That would be one issue.

To replace that motherboard exactly, you'd be wanting an SLI capable
motherboard. If the system has one video card and there are no plans
of expansion, then SLI is unnecessary.

If SLI isn't necessary (only one video card) or doesn't have other
special requirements, you can search on the Asus site, based on the
CPU part number.

http://support.asus.com.tw/cpusupport/cpusupport.aspx?SLanguage=en-us

Use the "Search CPU using" menu. Select "CPU" from the menu.
I selected "Intel Pentium D" next, then Pentium D 930... Rev.C1.

The returned list has a large number of boards. Some are even
current. For example, boards with P5Q in the name, would be P45
boards. And those are likely to stop shipping soon, if they
haven't already.

P5Q SE Plus
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131347

Next problem. Your current motherboard is BTX, with a "backwards" layout.
This was done, so the huge CPU cooler and its fan, could also cool the
chassis. That is going to severely limit what motherboards you can use.

And if you go to Ebay, and look for an XPS motherboard identical to the
one you've got, it could be damaged in the same way too. I think I
see discoloration on two caps here. I found this on Ebay yesterday.

http://www.millenniacomputers.com/images/DELL_XPS600_5.jpg

If you changed to a new chassis, you could reuse a lot of the components.
Put in your P5Q SE Plus, then reuse the processor. The cooler will have
to go. For an LGA775 cooler, you could use one of these. This is the
cooler I use on my system. This would take the place of the Dell "blob".
The separate chassis fan on your new computer case, would carry the
hot air from the CPU cooler, out of the computer case.

http://www.frostytech.com/articleview.cfm?articleID=2288

So you're saving a bit, spending a bit. It is a big project, with
challenges. Inspect all the cabling carefully, for other gotchas.
The Dell might not even have standard connectors for Reset_Switch,
Power_Switch, IDE_LED, Power_LED, Case_Speaker and so on. So there
are plenty of little details. But it can be done.

The pinout on the power cable, looks to me to be standard. Compare
to the wire colors in the ATX spec to be sure. Sometimes, a Dell
has custom secondary connectors, for powering who knows what. In
any case, there is a good chance you can reuse the power supply on
the machine.

http://www.formfactors.org/developer/specs/ATX12V_PSDG_2_2_public_br2.pdf

For a replacement OS, there is still WinXP Home OEM available for
sale (I'm not sure what DSP OEI means though). That is, unless you
can find some other way, to solve the Dell "branded" CD problem.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16832116583

Paul

Paul

unread,
May 8, 2010, 1:34:47 PM5/8/10
to

To summarize the info there, I'm thinking

new_ATX_motherboard + new_cpu_cooler_lga775 + new_cpu_case_for_ATX_not_BTX + new_OS_cd

which in round (highball) numbers, could be

$150 + $50 + $100 + $100

You're still saving money, in the sense the processor, power supply,
video card, hard drive, optical drive are being preserved. Buying a completely
new computer for $400, might not give you much of a computer.

If you go for an exact replacement (XPS600) motherboard from Ebay, there
is no way of knowing whether it is burned or not as well. At
least for the bad_cap Dell motherboards, there is a high degree
of failure correlation. For some old Dells, you can only buy them
from Ebay, if the advert says "re-capped". So there is some
risk associated with buying an exact replacement from Ebay. If
Dell sells you a brand new one, that might be cheaper than the
above suggestion, but who knows what Dell charges for a $150
motherboard ? For that matter, they might not be available
from Dell at any price (they can't keep making new ones, because
the chipset maker stops making them eventually). Dell would only
stock enough, for their prediction of failure rate. And with a
design flaw, you can be sure all the replacements are gone by now.

Paul

E

unread,
May 8, 2010, 3:38:14 PM5/8/10
to
Paul wrote:
> Paul wrote:
>> E wrote:
>>> Man-wai Chang to The Door (33600bps) wrote:
>>>> On 5/8/2010 13:31, E wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi
>>>>>
>>>>> A friend asked me to fix her Dell XPS 600.
>>>>>
>>>>> You try to turn it on, the fans spin, and it shuts itself off after a
>>>>> few seconds. I have searched the web and found several posts in
message
>>>>> boards where people have the exact same problem with this machine.
>>>>
>>>> Do you know how to open the case?
>>>>
>>>> Unplug everything except display card (if any), CPU, RAM &
keyboard. Try again and report back!
>>>>
>>> Maybe my message was too long. I did that. I know the MB or PSU has
failed. I just need a Pentium D socket 775 replacement motherboard.

I should have spent a minute explaining what I did to trouble shoot in
my original post.

Thanks for your time on this Paul. You did a lot of finger work for me
there.

>>
>> Does the Dell software CD that restores the OS, work with a
>> third-party>> (non-Dell) motherboard ? That would be one issue.

Good point. I forgot that OEM CD keys usually can't be transfered to
another system. So I guess if I try to use the Dell CD key to install XP
Home on the changed system, with new MB etc... MS won't activate it?

>>
>> To replace that motherboard exactly, you'd be wanting an SLI capable
>> motherboard. If the system has one video card and there are no plans
>> of expansion, then SLI is unnecessary.

There is one PCI-E video card in this system. So I think I would go for
a board that isn't SLI capable to save a few bucks.

There is also a non-express PCI 3.0 graphics co-processor board plugged
in (if it's correct to call it that) . A PhysX Ageia. Never knew of it's
existence until I started on this repair. Does this thing get used much
since nVidia bought out Ageia? I read on Wikipedia that most games
written now may not use the older implementation. The main user of this
Dell is a teenage male who likes to play a lot of games. I wonder if his
older games might benefit from this card. It probably won't hurt include
it in whatever new configuration I come up with. It should be easy
enough to disassemble everything I suppose.

>>
>> If SLI isn't necessary (only one video card) or doesn't have other
>> special requirements, you can search on the Asus site, based on the
>> CPU part number.
>>
>> http://support.asus.com.tw/cpusupport/cpusupport.aspx?SLanguage=en-us
>>
>> Use the "Search CPU using" menu. Select "CPU" from the menu.
>> I selected "Intel Pentium D" next, then Pentium D 930... Rev.C1.
>>
>> The returned list has a large number of boards. Some are even
>> current. For example, boards with P5Q in the name, would be P45
>> boards. And those are likely to stop shipping soon, if they
>> haven't already.
>>
>> P5Q SE Plus
>> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131347

Thanks for the links. I'll check the Asus site myself, and maybe go
directly to other manufacturers.

>>
>> Next problem. Your current motherboard is BTX, with a "backwards"
layout.
>> This was done, so the huge CPU cooler and its fan, could also cool the
>> chassis. That is going to severely limit what motherboards you can use.

I thought so. I read posts in web forums indicating that a standard
board may work, but I had doubts because of Dells custom designed
cooling solutions and layouts.

>>
>> And if you go to Ebay, and look for an XPS motherboard identical to the
>> one you've got, it could be damaged in the same way too. I think I
>> see discoloration on two caps here. I found this on Ebay yesterday.
>>
>> http://www.millenniacomputers.com/images/DELL_XPS600_5.jpg

I searched eBay last night but didn't get any results. Here is a picture
of the part of my user's motherboard showing blown caps and what I guess
is the inductor the other web poster had talked about. The inductor
looks completely fried to me with plenty of discoloration.

http://members.localnet.com/~eddie180/Pics/100_2770e.jpg

I hope the Dell PSU didn't cause this. Web board posters mentioned
Dell's solution as changing out both PSU and MB. This is either just a
hedge against the PSU being faulty or the PSU has a known issue.


>>
>> If you changed to a new chassis, you could reuse a lot of the
components.
>> Put in your P5Q SE Plus, then reuse the processor. The cooler will have
>> to go. For an LGA775 cooler, you could use one of these. This is the
>> cooler I use on my system. This would take the place of the Dell "blob".
>> The separate chassis fan on your new computer case, would carry the
>> hot air from the CPU cooler, out of the computer case.
>>
>> http://www.frostytech.com/articleview.cfm?articleID=2288
>>
>> So you're saving a bit, spending a bit. It is a big project, with
>> challenges. Inspect all the cabling carefully, for other gotchas.
>> The Dell might not even have standard connectors for Reset_Switch,
>> Power_Switch, IDE_LED, Power_LED, Case_Speaker and so on. So there
>> are plenty of little details. But it can be done.

I really don't want to try using the Dell case, unless I can get a BTX
motherboard compatible with the Pentium D 930. There doesn't seem to be
provisions for a standard PSU in the Dell case.

>>
>> The pinout on the power cable, looks to me to be standard. Compare
>> to the wire colors in the ATX spec to be sure. Sometimes, a Dell
>> has custom secondary connectors, for powering who knows what. In
>> any case, there is a good chance you can reuse the power supply on
>> the machine.
>>
>>http://www.formfactors.org/developer/specs/ATX12V_PSDG_2_2_public_br2.pdf

This Dell PSU doesn't mount in the top rear, it mounts in a compartment
in the bottom of the case. I assumed I couldn't just take it out and put
it in a standard ATX case. I think it may be wider than a standard ATX
PSU and is shorter, like 2" tall. I haven't removed it yet because it is
in its own compartment, and its wiring is routed through holes and
chases formed by fan housings and what not.

>>
>> For a replacement OS, there is still WinXP Home OEM available for
>> sale (I'm not sure what DSP OEI means though). That is, unless you
>> can find some other way, to solve the Dell "branded" CD problem.
>>
>> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16832116583

If not, buying another Windows license will certainly add to the cost.

>>
>> Paul
>
> To summarize the info there, I'm thinking
>
> new_ATX_motherboard + new_cpu_cooler_lga775 +
new_cpu_case_for_ATX_not_BTX + new_OS_cd
>
> which in round (highball) numbers, could be
>
> $150 + $50 + $100 + $100

And maybe a new PSU, because of the possible incompatible form factor of
the original. I'll have to look into the PSU problem some more .

>
> You're still saving money, in the sense the processor, power supply,
> video card, hard drive, optical drive are being preserved. Buying a
>completely
> new computer for $400, might not give you much of a computer.

>
> If you go for an exact replacement (XPS600) motherboard from Ebay, >there
> is no way of knowing whether it is burned or not as well. At
> least for the bad_cap Dell motherboards, there is a high degree
> of failure correlation. For some old Dells, you can only buy them
> from Ebay, if the advert says "re-capped". So there is some
> risk associated with buying an exact replacement from Ebay. If
> Dell sells you a brand new one, that might be cheaper than the
> above suggestion, but who knows what Dell charges for a $150
> motherboard ? For that matter, they might not be available
> from Dell at any price (they can't keep making new ones, because
> the chipset maker stops making them eventually). Dell would only
> stock enough, for their prediction of failure rate. And with a
> design flaw, you can be sure all the replacements are gone by now.

Thanks again for your work on this. I'll have to do some more though. I
have a feeling though that Dell no longer has a replacement MB in stock.

Eddie

Ben Myers

unread,
May 8, 2010, 4:41:31 PM5/8/10
to

The XPS 600 power supply is very much a custom design, and it cannot be
re-used in any system except another Dell XPS or similar Dell chassis.

The OP needs to buy a new power supply, too, if he intends to build up a
new system around the parts taken from the XPS 600... Ben Myers

Ben Myers

unread,
May 8, 2010, 4:43:57 PM5/8/10
to

If Dell does not sell replacement XPS 600 boards any more, or even if
they do, the price tag will likely be north of $US 300. Third-party
parts houses extort large sums for exact replacement parts, and only
well-heeled companies like Goldman Sachs or the US Govt (spending our
tax dollars, are willing to pay the price... Ben Myers

Paul

unread,
May 8, 2010, 5:05:18 PM5/8/10
to
E wrote:


> >> http://www.millenniacomputers.com/images/DELL_XPS600_5.jpg
>
> I searched eBay last night but didn't get any results. Here is a picture
> of the part of my user's motherboard showing blown caps and what I guess
> is the inductor the other web poster had talked about. The inductor
> looks completely fried to me with plenty of discoloration.
>
> http://members.localnet.com/~eddie180/Pics/100_2770e.jpg
>
> I hope the Dell PSU didn't cause this. Web board posters mentioned
> Dell's solution as changing out both PSU and MB. This is either just a
> hedge against the PSU being faulty or the PSU has a known issue.
>

I see at least four failed caps in your picture. The other
burned component, is likely a side effect of the cap failure.

The slight rusty discoloration on the caps in the first link,
appears to line up with the two large caps in your picture.

I've lost a power supply here, due to bad caps, and billions
of bad caps were shipped. Some companies got hit pretty hard.
The motherboard company, Abit, had enough issues, that a
class action was brought against them, because of it.

More fun here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capacitor_plague

Let's hope that era is gone now. There are apparently
still cheesy caps to be had - companies still make
disreputable products like that. But the smart motherboard
makers, know how to dodge stuff like that now. They're at
least aware of the need to do quality control, to reduce
their liabilities. They'll use polymer caps in the Vcore
circuit, and if they do use regular electrolytics for
other filter functions, they won't buy them from the
worst of the offenders. They've already been "named and
shamed". Counterfeiting is still possible, but that's been
a problem in the electronics industry for years. For
example, some cap companies, make regular electrolytics
in a can that looks like a polymer. Which is dangerous, if
the pressure relief seams are not present on top. Electrolytic
caps have seams in the top, so a dangerous explosion won't
occur due to overpressure. They'll bulge, break, and ooze instead,
if there is a chemistry problem. It is still possible to
explode electrolytics - it is part of pranks engineers play
on one another in lab courses. I'm just glad I wasn't
sitting next to the one that went off in my class :-)
What a mess.

Paul

E

unread,
May 9, 2010, 7:48:18 AM5/9/10
to

>>
>> Thanks again for your work on this. I'll have to do some more though. I
>> have a feeling though that Dell no longer has a replacement MB in stock.
>>
>>
>
> If Dell does not sell replacement XPS 600 boards any more, or even if
> they do, the price tag will likely be north of $US 300. Third-party
> parts houses extort large sums for exact replacement parts, and only
> well-heeled companies like Goldman Sachs or the US Govt (spending our
> tax dollars, are willing to pay the price... Ben Myers

I think I did see a $300 price tag somewhere for a replacement board.
Maybe in an older message board thread on the subject. That's why I
consider this option low on the list of possible solutions.

E

unread,
May 9, 2010, 7:52:34 AM5/9/10
to

> The XPS 600 power supply is very much a custom design, and it cannot be
> re-used in any system except another Dell XPS or similar Dell chassis.
>
> The OP needs to buy a new power supply, too, if he intends to build up a
> new system around the parts taken from the XPS 600... Ben Myers

Yes. I'm thinking of a bare bones system with now drives, video
hardware, or memory. I need to look at benchmarks between the Pentium D
930 and newer low or middle of the line CPUs.

E

unread,
May 9, 2010, 8:10:53 AM5/9/10
to
Paul wrote:
> E wrote:
>
>
>> >> http://www.millenniacomputers.com/images/DELL_XPS600_5.jpg
>>
>> I searched eBay last night but didn't get any results. Here is a
>> picture of the part of my user's motherboard showing blown caps and
>> what I guess is the inductor the other web poster had talked about.
>> The inductor looks completely fried to me with plenty of discoloration.
>>
>> http://members.localnet.com/~eddie180/Pics/100_2770e.jpg
>>
>> I hope the Dell PSU didn't cause this. Web board posters mentioned
>> Dell's solution as changing out both PSU and MB. This is either just a
>> hedge against the PSU being faulty or the PSU has a known issue.
>>
>
> I see at least four failed caps in your picture. The other
> burned component, is likely a side effect of the cap failure.
>
> The slight rusty discoloration on the caps in the first link,
> appears to line up with the two large caps in your picture.

Yep.

>
> I've lost a power supply here, due to bad caps, and billions
> of bad caps were shipped. Some companies got hit pretty hard.
> The motherboard company, Abit, had enough issues, that a
> class action was brought against them, because of it.

I built my first system in 2002. A socket 478 P4 1.6 Ghz with a Tyan
Trinity 510 motherboard. It has the rogue Via chipset. At the time I
didn't know much about chipsets, reference boards and what not. It is my
main computer 'till this day. It may be old and slow, but I checked caps
with a flash light last night after I read this message about failed
caps, and they all look good factory fresh. PC's in that era can still
be used for a lot of things. I stopped keeping up with hardware around
2005. Occasionally a friend or family member will ask me to fix a PC and
I'll have to study up on what's changed.

The caps thing is interesting. How easy is it to replace caps and the
little 'inductor' or whatever it is next to the caps? I wonder how much
hardware could be put back to work if we could just change the bad caps.

>
> More fun here:
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capacitor_plague
>
> Let's hope that era is gone now. There are apparently
> still cheesy caps to be had - companies still make
> disreputable products like that. But the smart motherboard
> makers, know how to dodge stuff like that now. They're at
> least aware of the need to do quality control, to reduce
> their liabilities. They'll use polymer caps in the Vcore
> circuit, and if they do use regular electrolytics for
> other filter functions, they won't buy them from the
> worst of the offenders. They've already been "named and
> shamed". Counterfeiting is still possible, but that's been
> a problem in the electronics industry for years. For
> example, some cap companies, make regular electrolytics
> in a can that looks like a polymer. Which is dangerous, if
> the pressure relief seams are not present on top. Electrolytic
> caps have seams in the top, so a dangerous explosion won't
> occur due to overpressure. They'll bulge, break, and ooze instead,
> if there is a chemistry problem. It is still possible to
> explode electrolytics - it is part of pranks engineers play
> on one another in lab courses. I'm just glad I wasn't
> sitting next to the one that went off in my class :-)
> What a mess.
>

I've read stories about caps blowing in monitors with a loud pop.


When this Dell board failed,
the owner said she heard a loud noise coming out of the case. I figured
it was a cooling fan with a bad baring. Others had reported to same
sounds in there description of what happened before it failed. Perhaps
the bad caps caused a fan somewhere to spin up, I don't know.

Eddie


Paul

unread,
May 9, 2010, 11:10:09 AM5/9/10
to
E wrote:

<<some snippage>>

> I built my first system in 2002. A socket 478 P4 1.6 Ghz with a Tyan
> Trinity 510 motherboard. It has the rogue Via chipset. At the time I
> didn't know much about chipsets, reference boards and what not. It is my
> main computer 'till this day. It may be old and slow, but I checked caps
> with a flash light last night after I read this message about failed
> caps, and they all look good factory fresh. PC's in that era can still
> be used for a lot of things. I stopped keeping up with hardware around
> 2005. Occasionally a friend or family member will ask me to fix a PC and
> I'll have to study up on what's changed.
>
> The caps thing is interesting. How easy is it to replace caps and the
> little 'inductor' or whatever it is next to the caps? I wonder how much
> hardware could be put back to work if we could just change the bad caps.
>

> I've read stories about caps blowing in monitors with a loud pop.
>
>
> When this Dell board failed,
> the owner said she heard a loud noise coming out of the case. I figured
> it was a cooling fan with a bad baring. Others had reported to same
> sounds in there description of what happened before it failed. Perhaps
> the bad caps caused a fan somewhere to spin up, I don't know.
>
> Eddie
>

The fan is speed controlled by the processor. If the processor crashes
at boot, the fan is likely set to run at 100%, until the processor sets
the fan controller to a lower setting (but it's crashed). The Dells use
*huge* fans, in terms of maximum cooling capacity, so if the fan ramps up,
you'll think there is a vacuum cleaner in the room :-)

If it was some onboard power circuit, it too can make a noise, but probably
not loud enough to be noted for its loudness. The loudest thing in the
box, is that fan. The only thing louder, would be an exploding cap, like
say, the main cap inside the PSU. But that noise wouldn't last very long.

*******

Changing caps is moderately difficult. You start by practicing on a
motherboard you don't care about, to get a feel for it. I've done a
few at work, on some hardware we designed, and I had to say a few
swear words, before the job was done.

The problem is with the hole size. On boards where the holes are
"oversized" on purpose (i.e. designer takes pity on rework techs),
the caps can be removed with less swearing. With an oversized hole,
you clean out the solder, clear the lead from the side wall, and then
it comes right out.

On the last ones I did, the capacitor leads were an "interference
fit", meaning the hole is barely larger than the capacitor lead. That
kind of fit is preferred for manufacturing, on say a wave solder line,
as the capacitor can't "float" out of the hole. On the board with the
oversized holes, they used to "form" the leads, to provide enough
holding power, so the capacitor doesn't float away.

You can remove a cap, by tearing the top off it, leaving exposed the two
leads. Then, applying heat to one lead at a time, allows you to pull it
out. (You have to make sure the hole is thoroughly heated, and the
solder is molten, because pulling too hard on the plated hole, can
tear it out.) But you can easily do damage to the board,
if you use too much brute force. Like, using a big pair of side cutters
to snip off the top half of the cap. Sometimes there are adjacent
objects that get in the way. While cutting the cap, you might apply so
much force, as to damage something else. Like, your hand slips, and you
scrape half a dozen tiny SMT components off the board. And when those fall
on the floor, you'll never find them.

If you leave the top-side intact, you can try to use a solder sucker
or vacuum de-soldering station, to clean the hole. Then, alternately
heat the holes, while tilting the cap from side to side on top,
gradually pulling it out.

You cannot drill out the holes, because the motherboard is 4, 6, or 8
layers, and there are copper connections to the hole on the inner layers.
If you insist on drilling it out, when the new cap is installed, it
won't be making contact with potentially any inner conductors. Which
is why, when working on PCBs, you have to treat the holes with respect.
They have an internal structure.

(Not very realistic, but intended to show there is stuff inside the PCB...)

http://www.multipcb.de/sharedimg/help_multilayer.gif

Similarly, the copper foil on the board, can easily de-laminate from the
fiber glass. I've pulled a few pads off motherboards here, using only
a moderate amount of force. The PCBs we used to make at work, could take
a lot more abuse than modern motherboards. I never removed any pads at work,
and I did a fair amount of work on my own prototype boards.

Perhaps the procedure could be rendered least painful, by using a hot air
device with a fitting on the end, to only heat the circular area below the
cap and allow pulling the cap from the top side. Other than that, I see
no choice but to curse while doing it, and have to leave the room for
a break after you're done :-) So it isn't a chore I look forward to.

There is another option, to make the job easier. It is called ChipQuik.
It is a low melting point solder. You "add" that solder to each hole,
causing the melting point to drop in future applications of your soldering
iron. I've heard of it, but never bought any. Potentially, it would
allow the cap to be tilted from side to side faster, as the solder
could be brought to the molten point faster. After the cap is removed,
you have to clean off all the ChipQuik with solder wick. ChipQuik
is expensive, but if your company is paying for your time, probably
worth it.

*******

To prevent bad caps from doing collateral damage, you have to stop using
the computer, before the computer stops working completely. For example,
say you've used the machine for two years, without a peep from it. Then,
one day, it crashes 30 seconds into boot. You'd power off, take the side
off and inspect for visual damage. Also, take a sniff, and see if you can
smell something burning, or a chemical odor. Even a non-technical person
could be convinced to use their eyes and nose, to detect if something
is different. Like, if they saw the rust colored deposit on a few caps,
compared to the shiny caps besides them, that would suggest something
is amiss. It is one thing, to see dust in your computer, but quite another
to see oozing or discolorations on stuff. Or even burn marks.

If the capacitor fails short circuit, and the power conversion design
doesn't have fault detection, then the other stuff in the circuit can
burn. That would include MOSFETs or the inductor (toroid or square) coils.
Inductors are hard to replace, because you don't typically have a part
number to work with. The powered iron donut is color coded, but you typically
don't know who made the donut (to do further research). Winding enamel
wire on it, isn't a big deal. You can get enamel wire at a motor rewinding
shop. MOSFETs can be moderately hard to replace, because you typically can't
buy an exact replacement, and have to go through catalogs and datasheets,
to find something close.

Yes, power conversion circuits can make noises, especially under overload
or abnormal conditions. Some of them are actually designed to work that
way, changing switching frequency (perhaps down into the audible range).
So a "squeal" might be a way for the circuit to tell you there is a problem.
You can also get "coil noise" from circuits, even when they're working well.
And that is not actually that easy to tame. Even a squirt of silicon rubber
on the coil, won't necessarily stop it. That might not be enough damping.

Paul

0 new messages