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Verizon throttled Calif. fire department's unlimited data during wildfire
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D-FENS
Aug 21, 2018, 10:57:38β―PM8/21/18
to
https://a.msn.com/r/2/BBMgre2?m=en-us&referrerID=InAppShare
As wildfires raged in California this summer, one fire departmentβs response was impeded by an unexpected problem: data throttling.
In documents filed this week as part of a legal challenge to the FCCβs net neutrality repeal, Santa Clara County Fire Marshal Anthony Bowden explains how Verizon slowed device speeds during the crisis, hindering firefightersβ response.Β
In the documents, flagged by Ars Technica, Bowden writes that the fire department had purchased an unlimited data plan from Verizon for a support unitβs connection, but the company started throttling speeds βto 1/200, or lessβ after the unit hit 25GB of use.
Bowden writes that the resulting throttling from Verizon βhad a significant impact on our ability to provide emergency services,β as responders were unable to properly track and route firefighting resources. The company continued to slow data speeds even after being informed it was βactively impedingβ respondersβ ability to fight the blazes, Bowden writes. Ultimately, the fire department had to sign up for a new, more expensive plan before speeds were restored.
The throttling took place after the repeal of net neutrality rules went into effect, although Verizon, like other major carriers, throttled unlimited plans at certain use thresholds long before that. The 22 state attorneys general who filed the documents did not argue that the companyβs actions would have violated the previous net neutrality rules. Verizon did not immediately respond to a request for comment.
The filing includes an increasingly frantic email exchange between Verizon representatives and the fire department. A fire official expressed confusion over βwhy our public safety data usage is getting throttled downβ when they were under the impression that would never happen.
βPlease work with us,β a fire official wrote to Verizon at one point. βAll we need is a plan that does not offer throttling or caps of any kind.β
As wildfires raged in California this summer, one fire departmentβs response was impeded by an unexpected problem: data throttling.
In documents filed this week as part of a legal challenge to the FCCβs net neutrality repeal, Santa Clara County Fire Marshal Anthony Bowden explains how Verizon slowed device speeds during the crisis, hindering firefightersβ response.Β
In the documents, flagged by Ars Technica, Bowden writes that the fire department had purchased an unlimited data plan from Verizon for a support unitβs connection, but the company started throttling speeds βto 1/200, or lessβ after the unit hit 25GB of use.
Bowden writes that the resulting throttling from Verizon βhad a significant impact on our ability to provide emergency services,β as responders were unable to properly track and route firefighting resources. The company continued to slow data speeds even after being informed it was βactively impedingβ respondersβ ability to fight the blazes, Bowden writes. Ultimately, the fire department had to sign up for a new, more expensive plan before speeds were restored.
The throttling took place after the repeal of net neutrality rules went into effect, although Verizon, like other major carriers, throttled unlimited plans at certain use thresholds long before that. The 22 state attorneys general who filed the documents did not argue that the companyβs actions would have violated the previous net neutrality rules. Verizon did not immediately respond to a request for comment.
The filing includes an increasingly frantic email exchange between Verizon representatives and the fire department. A fire official expressed confusion over βwhy our public safety data usage is getting throttled downβ when they were under the impression that would never happen.
βPlease work with us,β a fire official wrote to Verizon at one point. βAll we need is a plan that does not offer throttling or caps of any kind.β
shiggins
Aug 22, 2018, 8:57:18β―AM8/22/18
to
General Motors not being able to supply more red cars for the fire fighters.
Its wrong somehow that Verizon throttled the fire department. But since
any throttling occurs automatically, that is, a machine initiates it
when a setpoint is reached perhaps Verizon needs another checkbox on the
enrollment form for fire departments in order to prevent that. With an
increase in price, of course.
Steve
D-FENS
Aug 22, 2018, 10:32:47β―AM8/22/18
to
"Santa Clara County Fire Marshal Anthony Bowden explains how Verizon slowed device speeds during the crisis, hindering firefightersβ response.
In the documents, flagged by Ars Technica, Bowden writes that the fire department had purchased an unlimited data plan from Verizon for a support unitβs connection, but the company started throttling speeds βto 1/200, or lessβ after the unit hit 25GB of use."
CanopyCo
Aug 22, 2018, 11:26:30β―AM8/22/18
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Like most of us, you didnβt read the print explaining what a unlimited phone data plan is.
It is unlimited low end access, with limited to 25 gig high speed movie downloading speed.
They still had internet access, but it slowed down after they used up all there movie watching speed.
That is still unlimited internet access, because they could still access their e-mail, maps, and other information web pages (at a slower speed but still has internet access) but could no longer download movies and other high band width pages.
Iβm not sure, but I think that it is on a phone by phone bases at that.
Thus, the firefighters that only used their phone for work still had high speed, but the guys that were setting around watching movies used there all up.
Iβm kind of thinking that this article is bullshit aimed at lying about the net neutrality law.
The phones did not limit bandwidth to any individual cites like Netflix, and that is what the net neutrality law is about.
They simply limited the bandwidth to all web pages, no matter what the page was.
That is how it has always been.
You can buy fast connections, slow connections, or even dial up connections, but faster always cost more than slower connections.
The net neutrality law prevents the net provider from limiting band width to band width hogs like Netflix.
I donβt believe that the law ever effected how fast a connection was that you bought.
There has always been faster, more expensive connections vs slower, cheaper connections.
Ever since the beginning, one could not set up a web site that had a lot of traffic without buying more bandwidth so that you didnβt slow down during high usage times.
After all, I have never had a T1 or T3 line, despite the fact that they existed.
This shows that even from the beginning one could pay more for a faster connection then the standard connection.
What the fire guys were dealing with was the same contract situation that has been going on for quite some time.
Because the internet phone is such a new deal and the number of users are increasing at a fast rate, the phone towers canβt handle but so much traffic.
That traffic funnel is not a new deal and has existed as far back as the net has.
This is the same problem as when too many people try to use the phone at the same time and not everyone gets threw, as in large scale emergencies.
So, in order to offer service to more people, they only allow each person so much Gig of downloads.
Once you get your fair share, you are moved to the slow line so that the rest of us can still watch our movies while we still have enough download to handle it.
Otherwise everyone would be watching movies and eventually it would overload the system and then no one would be able to go fast.
So, just as always, if you want to go fast you have to pay for the faster line, like back when that faster line was called T1.
The fire department has handled the situation by requesting and receiving a contract that is for a truly unlimited connection.
It is unlimited low end access, with limited to 25 gig high speed movie downloading speed.
They still had internet access, but it slowed down after they used up all there movie watching speed.
That is still unlimited internet access, because they could still access their e-mail, maps, and other information web pages (at a slower speed but still has internet access) but could no longer download movies and other high band width pages.
Iβm not sure, but I think that it is on a phone by phone bases at that.
Thus, the firefighters that only used their phone for work still had high speed, but the guys that were setting around watching movies used there all up.
Iβm kind of thinking that this article is bullshit aimed at lying about the net neutrality law.
The phones did not limit bandwidth to any individual cites like Netflix, and that is what the net neutrality law is about.
They simply limited the bandwidth to all web pages, no matter what the page was.
That is how it has always been.
You can buy fast connections, slow connections, or even dial up connections, but faster always cost more than slower connections.
The net neutrality law prevents the net provider from limiting band width to band width hogs like Netflix.
I donβt believe that the law ever effected how fast a connection was that you bought.
There has always been faster, more expensive connections vs slower, cheaper connections.
Ever since the beginning, one could not set up a web site that had a lot of traffic without buying more bandwidth so that you didnβt slow down during high usage times.
After all, I have never had a T1 or T3 line, despite the fact that they existed.
This shows that even from the beginning one could pay more for a faster connection then the standard connection.
What the fire guys were dealing with was the same contract situation that has been going on for quite some time.
Because the internet phone is such a new deal and the number of users are increasing at a fast rate, the phone towers canβt handle but so much traffic.
That traffic funnel is not a new deal and has existed as far back as the net has.
This is the same problem as when too many people try to use the phone at the same time and not everyone gets threw, as in large scale emergencies.
So, in order to offer service to more people, they only allow each person so much Gig of downloads.
Once you get your fair share, you are moved to the slow line so that the rest of us can still watch our movies while we still have enough download to handle it.
Otherwise everyone would be watching movies and eventually it would overload the system and then no one would be able to go fast.
So, just as always, if you want to go fast you have to pay for the faster line, like back when that faster line was called T1.
The fire department has handled the situation by requesting and receiving a contract that is for a truly unlimited connection.
D-FENS
Aug 22, 2018, 11:58:02β―AM8/22/18
to
On Wednesday, August 22, 2018 at 9:26:30 AM UTC-6, CanopyCo wrote:
> The fire department has handled the situation by requesting and receiving a >contract that is for a truly unlimited connection.
Verizon could have displayed its civic duty and given the Santa Clara County Fire Department the bandwidth it needed to fight a major wildfire. We always read how corporations are "persons" in the eyes of the law. Verizon acted more like a robot and chose to ignore the threat that the fires presented to property and human lives, with all the subsequent deaths and burned down homes.
> The fire department has handled the situation by requesting and receiving a >contract that is for a truly unlimited connection.
I am reminded of those Clear Channel radio stations around the nation that are unmanned by actual humans and just pipe in music and talk programs and commercials from some central location in Texas. When disaster hits a community, there is no radio station to call to ask them to broadcast urgent messages to the local people being threatened by fire, floods or hurricanes.
One would think that someone at Verizon who actually lived in Santa Clara County would have acted in a civic manner and given the fire department the bandwidth it needed in an emergency and, perhaps, billed the taxpayers of Santa Clara County later for the excess bandwidth they used, at a minimum. Instead they acted like cold, uncaring bureaucrats. I am reminded of the late troll, "Deep Du Du", who infamously said "Burn, Baby, Burn" when we had the Four Mile Fire in Boulder County and just laughed at the destruction of hundreds of homes, not to mention the loss of forests and wildlife in a horrific firestorm. He felt that if someone were "anti-immigrant," then they should be burned up in flames along with their families and pets.
shiggins
Aug 22, 2018, 5:04:59β―PM8/22/18
to
My point is: Verizon breached their contract with a customer. Other than
that they did nothing else wrong, as in illegal. The customer should be
recompensed. Net Neutrality rule changes had nothing to do with the
incident. So why was it mentioned? Political perhaps? Why not also
mention that all Verizon trucks are white but its unsure if the
situation would be different if they were all blue. Other than the fact
that everyone that works at Verizon is cheatin', baby killin',
xenophobic, claustrophobic, hydrophobic bastard. They're bed wetters too.
Sorry I was being so obtuse.
D-FENS
Aug 22, 2018, 6:04:47β―PM8/22/18
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rbowman
Aug 22, 2018, 9:30:08β―PM8/22/18
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On 08/22/2018 08:32 AM, D-FENS wrote:
> Verizon had sold the Santa Clara County Fire Department an *unlimited* data plan and then applied a limit at 25GB. Verizon was in breach of contract.
I would want to read their contract. I have an 'unlimited' Verizon data
> Verizon had sold the Santa Clara County Fire Department an *unlimited* data plan and then applied a limit at 25GB. Verizon was in breach of contract.
play that throttles if I exceed 18 GB.
Steve from Colorado
Aug 22, 2018, 11:01:16β―PM8/22/18
to
snail's pace, "unlimited" takes on a whole different meaning. Sort of
like a restaurant that says "all you can eat", but makes you wait
several hours for the food to get to your table after your initial
serving.
--
"Socialism produces bad music, bad art, social stagnation and really
unhappy people." -Frank Zappa (1940-93)
http://www.globalgulag.us
DSlN2ββ β¬ π΄πππππ πΎππππππ β¬ ββgatXd
Aug 22, 2018, 11:21:56β―PM8/22/18
to
Steve from Colorado wrote on 8/22/2018 11:01 PM:
> On 08/22/2018 07:30 PM, rbowman wrote:
>> On 08/22/2018 08:32 AM, D-FENS wrote:
>>> Verizon had sold the Santa Clara County Fire Department an
>>> *unlimited* data plan and then applied a limit at 25GB.Β Verizon was
>>> in breach of contract.
>>
>> I would want to read their contract. I have an 'unlimited' Verizon
>> data play that throttles if I exceed 18 GB.
>
> I see. It is unlimited, although when your data is slowed down to a
> snail's pace, "unlimited" takes on a whole different meaning. Sort of
> like a restaurant that says "all you can eat", but makes you wait
> several hours for the food to get to your table after your initial
> serving.
>
With so many government employees and government services at state level
> On 08/22/2018 07:30 PM, rbowman wrote:
>> On 08/22/2018 08:32 AM, D-FENS wrote:
>>> Verizon had sold the Santa Clara County Fire Department an
>>> *unlimited* data plan and then applied a limit at 25GB.Β Verizon was
>>> in breach of contract.
>>
>> I would want to read their contract. I have an 'unlimited' Verizon
>> data play that throttles if I exceed 18 GB.
>
> I see. It is unlimited, although when your data is slowed down to a
> snail's pace, "unlimited" takes on a whole different meaning. Sort of
> like a restaurant that says "all you can eat", but makes you wait
> several hours for the food to get to your table after your initial
> serving.
>
and federal level requiring cellphone and data plans, it is a lot
cheaper for the government to own a cellphone company just for itself.
Steve from Colorado
Aug 22, 2018, 11:47:21β―PM8/22/18
to
On 08/22/2018 09:21 PM, DSlN2ββ β¬ π΄πππππ πΎππππππ β¬ ββgatXd
wrote:
Bingo!
wrote:
rbowman
Aug 23, 2018, 1:44:00β―AM8/23/18
to
On 08/22/2018 09:01 PM, Steve from Colorado wrote:
> On 08/22/2018 07:30 PM, rbowman wrote:
>> On 08/22/2018 08:32 AM, D-FENS wrote:
>>> Verizon had sold the Santa Clara County Fire Department an
>>> *unlimited* data plan and then applied a limit at 25GB. Verizon was
>>> in breach of contract.
>>
>> I would want to read their contract. I have an 'unlimited' Verizon
>> data play that throttles if I exceed 18 GB.
>
> I see. It is unlimited, although when your data is slowed down to a
> snail's pace, "unlimited" takes on a whole different meaning. Sort of
> like a restaurant that says "all you can eat", but makes you wait
> several hours for the food to get to your table after your initial serving.
>
I've never hit the limit but the throttling isn't that bad. You're not
> On 08/22/2018 07:30 PM, rbowman wrote:
>> On 08/22/2018 08:32 AM, D-FENS wrote:
>>> Verizon had sold the Santa Clara County Fire Department an
>>> *unlimited* data plan and then applied a limit at 25GB. Verizon was
>>> in breach of contract.
>>
>> I would want to read their contract. I have an 'unlimited' Verizon
>> data play that throttles if I exceed 18 GB.
>
> I see. It is unlimited, although when your data is slowed down to a
> snail's pace, "unlimited" takes on a whole different meaning. Sort of
> like a restaurant that says "all you can eat", but makes you wait
> several hours for the food to get to your table after your initial serving.
>
going to be watching Amazon movies but normal surfing is possible. The
play I had was $50 / month for 5 GB. It wasn't throttled but it was $10
a GB when you went over 5. $75 for 18 and throttling works for me.
I presume the FD had a handle on their monthly usage and that's what
they contracted for -- then the shit hit the fan.
rbowman
Aug 23, 2018, 1:47:24β―AM8/23/18
to
On 08/22/2018 09:21 PM, DSlN2ββ β¬ π΄πππππ πΎππππππ β¬ ββgatXd
wrote:
wrote:
public carrier. The installation of the necessary repeaters and other
infrastructure was a million dollar contract, excluding the ongoing
support.
Look around you at all the cell towers. The network doesn't come cheap.
YMtG6ββ β¬ π΄πππππ πΎππππππ β¬ ββeG44g
Aug 23, 2018, 6:03:18β―AM8/23/18
to
there will be at least 22 million cellphone subscribers. You don't have
to give them the service for free. Charge them a low rate if they are
subscribing for personal use.
Then all the firetrucks and police vehicle will be online.
All those walkie-talkies can be replaced by cellular Mike:
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_(cellular_network)>
You can have webcams hidden in every street corner, street light and
traffic light. One webcam everything 10 feet in downtown area. Ever
wonder why British news websites can always present videos of street
accidents and street crimes? If you commit a crime in London, the
government can review all the videos and trace you movement back to
where you started from.
If the government doesn't own a cellphone company, then the government
will be paying through the nose to private companies.
21,995,000 to 12,329,000: Government Employees Outnumber Manufacturing
Employees 1.8 to 1
<https://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/terence-p-jeffrey/21955000-12329000-government-employees-outnumber-manufacturing>
news18
Aug 23, 2018, 8:13:55β―AM8/23/18
to
On 23/08/18 13:01, Steve from Colorado wrote:
> On 08/22/2018 07:30 PM, rbowman wrote:
>> On 08/22/2018 08:32 AM, D-FENS wrote:
>>> Verizon had sold the Santa Clara County Fire Department an
>>> *unlimited* data plan and then applied a limit at 25GB.Β Verizon was
>>> in breach of contract.
>>
>> I would want to read their contract. I have an 'unlimited' Verizon
>> data play that throttles if I exceed 18 GB.
>
> I see. It is unlimited, although when your data is slowed down to a
> snail's pace, "unlimited" takes on a whole different meaning.
I believe USA doesn't have true in advertising laws.
> On 08/22/2018 07:30 PM, rbowman wrote:
>> On 08/22/2018 08:32 AM, D-FENS wrote:
>>> Verizon had sold the Santa Clara County Fire Department an
>>> *unlimited* data plan and then applied a limit at 25GB.Β Verizon was
>>> in breach of contract.
>>
>> I would want to read their contract. I have an 'unlimited' Verizon
>> data play that throttles if I exceed 18 GB.
>
> I see. It is unlimited, although when your data is slowed down to a
> snail's pace, "unlimited" takes on a whole different meaning.
something to do with the findings when Pepsi advertised "win a Harrier
Jump Jet" in a promo.
In Australia, ISPs/RSPs that advertise unlimited have to provide just
that. It was a common offer from many, but often breached until
ACCC(?) stepped in and said make it so or pay compensation for not
providing it. Payouts totalled a few million.
Now the stosh has moved to claimed download speeds and ACCC has been
holding them to claimed speeds as many of the speed claims could not be
met during evening peak hours.
rbowman
Aug 23, 2018, 9:47:25β―AM8/23/18
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On 08/23/2018 04:03 AM, YMtG6ββ β¬ π΄πππππ πΎππππππ β¬ ββeG44g
wrote:
competence the Roasted Possum Fire Department will long for the days of
reliable Verizon service.
Perhaps they should also become cloud providers. How much is AWS getting
from the various governments?
And all those black Suburbans... Maybe a car company. They came close
with the Government Motors fiasco.
What the hell -- nationalize everything. The government can do it
cheaper and better. In your socialist utopia, that is.
wrote:
> If the government doesn't own a cellphone company, then the government
> will be paying through the nose to private companies.
Which government? The Federal one? Given their overall technical
> will be paying through the nose to private companies.
competence the Roasted Possum Fire Department will long for the days of
reliable Verizon service.
Perhaps they should also become cloud providers. How much is AWS getting
from the various governments?
And all those black Suburbans... Maybe a car company. They came close
with the Government Motors fiasco.
What the hell -- nationalize everything. The government can do it
cheaper and better. In your socialist utopia, that is.
j6HL2ββ β¬ π΄πππππ πΎππππππ β¬ ββc3Dyh
Aug 23, 2018, 10:46:54β―AM8/23/18
to
The government can really do it
cheaper. Ontario Health Insurance Plan (OHIP) is a fine example.
Think. If you have a gold mine, do you think it is better you run your own mining company to mine the gold, or is it better you let other people mine the gold and you get nothing?
The Americans are so stupid that they have to build and maintain the infrastructure in the country for giant corporations to make money. Those giant corporations move their headquarters offshore and pay no tax. The US government even has to subsidize Walmart employees (in the form of welfare) to work for Walmart.
The Chinese people own those giant corporations in China (Chinese government is the majority share holder). The American people own nothing in their giant corporations in the US. The American people have gone into $22 trillion debt to help those giant corporations make money.
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/China_Mobile>
Think. If you have a gold mine, do you think it is better you run your own mining company to mine the gold, or is it better you let other people mine the gold and you get nothing?
The Americans are so stupid that they have to build and maintain the infrastructure in the country for giant corporations to make money. Those giant corporations move their headquarters offshore and pay no tax. The US government even has to subsidize Walmart employees (in the form of welfare) to work for Walmart.
The Chinese people own those giant corporations in China (Chinese government is the majority share holder). The American people own nothing in their giant corporations in the US. The American people have gone into $22 trillion debt to help those giant corporations make money.
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/China_Mobile>
China Mobile
China Mobile Communications Corporation (Chinese: δΈε½η§»ε¨ιδΏ‘ιε’ε ¬εΈ; pinyin: ZhΕngguΓ³ YΓdΓ²ng TΕngxΓ¬n JΓtuΓ‘n GΕngsΔ«) d/b/a simply China Mobile is a Chinese state-owned[5] telecommunication corporation that provides mobile voice and multimedia services[6] through its nationwide mobile telecommunications network across mainland China.[2] China Mobile is the largest mobile telecommunications corporation by market capitalization,[7] and also the world's largest mobile phone operator by total number of subscribers, with over 902 million subscribers as of June 2018.[8]
The core subsidiary of the group, "China Mobile Limited", is listed on both the NYSE and the Hong Kong Stock Exchange.[2] China Mobile also operates China Mobile Hong Kong, a subsidiary mobile network in Hong Kong. As of August 2017, China Mobile's total market value stood at RMB 1.57 trillion.[4]
[... skipped]
History
A state-owned enterprise directly controlled by the government of the People's Republic of China[5] and also a public company which is listed on the NYSE and the Hong Kong stock exchanges,[2] China Mobile has dominated Chinese mobile services since its inception. As of 2010, China Mobile controls the vast majority of its domestic mobile services market with a 70% market share.[10] China Unicom and China Telecom have 20% and 10% shares, respectively.[10]
Incorporated in 1997 as China Telecom (Hong Kong) Limited,[1]
China Mobile was born from the 1999 break-up of China
Telecommunications Corporation.[11]
(This company continues to provide mobile services, however.[10])
D-FENS
Aug 23, 2018, 12:09:10β―PM8/23/18
to
D-FENS
Aug 23, 2018, 12:11:47β―PM8/23/18
to
D-FENS
Aug 23, 2018, 12:18:41β―PM8/23/18
to
DyvIjββ β¬ π΄πππππ πΎππππππ β¬ ββnFvvT
Aug 23, 2018, 1:10:45β―PM8/23/18
to
D-FENS wrote on 8/23/2018 12:11 PM:
The late, great king of Thailand was revered by the people for bringing cellular phone and internet service to the entire nation. Before the Thai government brought cellular service to the entire country, a significant portion of the people had never seen or used a telephone.
Thailand is using similar strategy
China had used to initially acquire the technology and hardware.
Instead of letting foreign companies run amok and the Thai people keep getting fleeced forever, Thailand grant concessions to foreign investors, in that Thailand will provide infrastructure, land, and guaranteed market share for foreign investors to make money, but eventually Thailand will own those equipment.
The giant corporations in the US want to fleece you fools forever. That's why they taught you to hate Socialism.
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telecommunications_in_Thailand>
Nearly all of the concession are built-own-operate type of contracts or BTO. The private investor has to build all the required facilities and transfer them to the State Owned Enterprises before they can operate or offer services to public.
Instead of letting foreign companies run amok and the Thai people keep getting fleeced forever, Thailand grant concessions to foreign investors, in that Thailand will provide infrastructure, land, and guaranteed market share for foreign investors to make money, but eventually Thailand will own those equipment.
The giant corporations in the US want to fleece you fools forever. That's why they taught you to hate Socialism.
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telecommunications_in_Thailand>
Nearly all of the concession are built-own-operate type of contracts or BTO. The private investor has to build all the required facilities and transfer them to the State Owned Enterprises before they can operate or offer services to public.
bI64Fββ β¬ π΄πππππ πΎππππππ β¬ ββKkCYR
Aug 23, 2018, 1:24:24β―PM8/23/18
to
Big US corporations have brainwashed the unwashed through decades of
propaganda, that:
Small government is good; big government is bad.
The government is not the solution; the government is the problem.
Everything should be done by the private sector.
The governments should have their hands off the private sector and let
the fuckers run amok.
Winston_Smith
Aug 23, 2018, 4:44:13β―PM8/23/18
to
On Thu, 23 Aug 2018 13:10:43 -0400, DyvIj?? ? ?????? ??????? ? ??nFvvT
<PR...@vsW3N.com> wrote:
>Thailand grant concessions to foreign
>investors, in that Thailand will provide infrastructure, land, and
>guaranteed market share for foreign investors to make money, but
>eventually Thailand will own those equipment.
Eventually means just in time to scrap it and install the next
<PR...@vsW3N.com> wrote:
>Thailand grant concessions to foreign
>investors, in that Thailand will provide infrastructure, land, and
>guaranteed market share for foreign investors to make money, but
>eventually Thailand will own those equipment.
generation.
Winston_Smith
Aug 23, 2018, 4:44:14β―PM8/23/18
to
On Thu, 23 Aug 2018 10:46:52 -0400, j6HL2?? ? ?????? ??????? ? ??c3Dyh
<6q...@PdwvC.com> wrote:
>The Americans are so stupid that they have to build and maintain the
>infrastructure in the country for giant corporations to make money.
I'm pretty sure I paid for the molds and machine tools to make my
<6q...@PdwvC.com> wrote:
>The Americans are so stupid that they have to build and maintain the
>infrastructure in the country for giant corporations to make money.
Jeep.
I bet I even paid for the pick and place machine they used to make my
electronic toys.
Winston_Smith
Aug 23, 2018, 4:44:15β―PM8/23/18
to
On Thu, 23 Aug 2018 10:46:52 -0400, j6HL2?? ? ?????? ??????? ? ??c3Dyh
<6q...@PdwvC.com> wrote:
>
<6q...@PdwvC.com> wrote:
>
>The Chinese people own those giant corporations in China (Chinese
>government is the majority share holder). The American people own
>nothing in their giant corporations in the US.
Gee, all my stocks are worthless you say?
>government is the majority share holder). The American people own
>nothing in their giant corporations in the US.
>The American people have
>gone into $22 trillion debt to help those giant corporations make money.
(Half at the time. By now a quarter since 0bama did his doubling to
start failed social programs.)
>to help those giant corporations make money.
Cheney - Blackwater
Rice - Mobil
McNamarra - Becktel
WHO made the money ????
I sure don't think my cell provider made a whole lot out of it.
news18
Aug 23, 2018, 8:22:04β―PM8/23/18
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On 24/08/18 03:24, bI64Fββ β¬ π΄πππππ πΎππππππ β¬ ββKkCYR wrote:
> D-FENS wrote on 8/23/2018 12:09 PM:
+
> D-FENS wrote on 8/23/2018 12:09 PM:
>> That's how it should be in the USA. We should emulate Australia in
>> that regard.
>
> Not fucking likely in the US.
>
> Big US corporations have brainwashed the unwashed through decades of
> propaganda, that:
>
> Small government is good; big government is bad.
That is what our "conservatives claim, but when peeps examine the
>> that regard.
>
> Not fucking likely in the US.
>
> Big US corporations have brainwashed the unwashed through decades of
> propaganda, that:
>
> Small government is good; big government is bad.
records, they create more red tape than the other mob.
>
> The government is not the solution; the government is the problem.
Only when they want to sell off the profitable services to their mates.
> The government is not the solution; the government is the problem.
>
> Everything should be done by the private sector.
License to rip everyone off.
> Everything should be done by the private sector.
>
> The governments should have their hands off the private sector and let
> the fuckers run amok.
Lol, our conservatives want to give money to build a new coal power
> The governments should have their hands off the private sector and let
> the fuckers run amok.
generation plant, but no one in the private industry wants a bar of it,
except a couple of scammers who have already closed down viable coal
generators.
>
>
>
>
>
>
rbowman
Aug 23, 2018, 10:50:54β―PM8/23/18
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On 08/23/2018 11:24 AM, bI64Fββ β¬ π΄πππππ πΎππππππ β¬ ββKkCYR
wrote:
Well, this is the government that utterly fucked up the Obamacare
website... iirc they awarded the contract to a Canadian firm with a
history of failure.
Do you really thing the US government has the expertise to build a
cellular network? They would have to hire people with the skills. Where
do people like that come from? Verizon? Despite throwing money around
like confetti the government doesn't have the reputation of paying the
rank and file as well as private industry. So will they have to outbid
Verizon or other providers to steal their talent? How much will that cost?
wrote:
website... iirc they awarded the contract to a Canadian firm with a
history of failure.
Do you really thing the US government has the expertise to build a
cellular network? They would have to hire people with the skills. Where
do people like that come from? Verizon? Despite throwing money around
like confetti the government doesn't have the reputation of paying the
rank and file as well as private industry. So will they have to outbid
Verizon or other providers to steal their talent? How much will that cost?
rbowman
Aug 23, 2018, 10:53:04β―PM8/23/18
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TracFone piggybacks on Verizon or other carriers.
D-FENS
Aug 23, 2018, 11:32:10β―PM8/23/18
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I took a different route than my usual route and went through Black Hawk. I was amazed at the construction of more casinos there, with huge new buildings almost rivaling Las Vegas in ostentatiousness and ugliness. Steamboat Springs is growing on the west end of town, and Craig is booming. I 70 was as heavy with traffic as ever.
Glad to settle in for the evening with my Wi Fi hotspot and seeing what's happening on AS.
4Z2n2ββ β¬ π΄πππππ πΎππππππ β¬ ββE1lRE
Aug 24, 2018, 1:47:50β―AM8/24/18
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government can fuck up a website is someone in the government
deliberately want it to fail.
If I were tasked with the job of making the website fail, I would
headhunt the software designers of the website to work for me with
better pay. With the designers gone, then the new ones would have a hard
time in meeting the deadline because they would have to either start
again from scratch, or try to figure out what the other guys had done
and then adjust and adapt. There would be a lot of software bugs because
of this discontinuity.
>
> Do you really thing the US government has the expertise to build a
> cellular network? They would have to hire people with the skills.
> Where do people like that come from? Verizon? Despite throwing money
> around like confetti the government doesn't have the reputation of
> paying the rank and file as well as private industry. So will they
> have to outbid Verizon or other providers to steal their talent? How
> much will that cost
changed, except government has become the majority shareholder. There is
no reason for the same company under a new owner to fail unless someone
deliberately undermine it by headhunting, or planting moles to sabotage it.
There is no reason why the Chinese government can have so many
successful and competitive giant corporations and the US government cannot.
Or, do it the good old British way. Besides BBC being a crown
corporation, commercial radio stations, television stations, and
newspaper publishers were mandated to allot a fixed amount of time slot
(or newspaper pages) for the governmental use.
The US government can mandate all the cellular networks to provide
unthrottled data service to the government as part of their licence
requirement.
rbowman
Aug 24, 2018, 2:00:06β―AM8/24/18
to
On 08/23/2018 09:32 PM, D-FENS wrote:
> I'm in Steamboat Springs, as I type, and am using my Tracfone as a wifi hotspot. The air in the valley is very smoky and I passed a rather large tent city on Hwy. 40 about 30 miles northeast of Rabbit Ears pass where firefighters are staged for a fire raging somewhere in that area. Just taking in the demographics of the crews, I would make an educated guess that quite a few of them are prisoners helping to fight the fire.
The morning moron on the radio station I listen to is calling it 'fog'.
> I'm in Steamboat Springs, as I type, and am using my Tracfone as a wifi hotspot. The air in the valley is very smoky and I passed a rather large tent city on Hwy. 40 about 30 miles northeast of Rabbit Ears pass where firefighters are staged for a fire raging somewhere in that area. Just taking in the demographics of the crews, I would make an educated guess that quite a few of them are prisoners helping to fight the fire.
He says smoke is too damn depressing so he prefers to think of it as fog
and it will be foggy for the foreseeable future. This weekend is the
River City Roots Festival and it will be held in the fog... Won't be
the first time; it's August in Montana. So far there's nothing in the
immediate vicinity that's on fire at least.
rbowman
Aug 24, 2018, 9:53:33β―AM8/24/18
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On 08/23/2018 11:47 PM, 4Z2n2ββ β¬ π΄πππππ πΎππππππ β¬ ββE1lRE
wrote:
Obama's minions wanted their Dear Leader to fail?
https://www.inc.com/associated-press/management-failure-results-in-healthcare.gov-woes.html
CGI's track record, being fired by Ontario after failing to deliver was
not promising but the lobbyists were spreading the bucks around:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2013/10/16/meet-cgi-federal-the-company-behind-the-botched-launch-of-healthcare-gov/?noredirect=on
> Just buy an existing network. Keep the original staff. Nothing has
> changed, except government has become the majority shareholder. There is
> no reason for the same company under a new owner to fail unless someone
> deliberately undermine it by headhunting, or planting moles to sabotage it.
The government does not work for a living. In other words the tax payers
are going to allow an organization famous for incompetence and out of
control costs to go buy a network? Verizon's enterprise value is around
$340 billion. It wouldn't come cheap.
> There is no reason why the Chinese government can have so many
> successful and competitive giant corporations and the US government cannot.
China, a very homogenous society with a different culture is an example
of a national socialist economy. If you haven't noticed the US
government, and the US people, are polarized and becoming more so every
day. Electing a new cast of clowns every two or four years and letting
them argue is not the way to get things done.
> Or, do it the good old British way. Besides BBC being a crown
> corporation, commercial radio stations, television stations, and
> newspaper publishers were mandated to allot a fixed amount of time slot
> (or newspaper pages) for the governmental use.
The good old British way isn't exactly a sterling example. They've
managed to piss away an empire and world technological leadership. iirc
they also spawned a cottage industry of off-shore pirate broadcasters
when the populace got sick of the limited offerings of Auntie Bee.
> The US government can mandate all the cellular networks to provide
> unthrottled data service to the government as part of their licence
> requirement.
Unfunded mandates are a quick trip to the Supreme Court. The Brady Bill
attempted to put the burden of background checks on local law
enforcement with no funding. Jay Printz of Ravalli County MT took that
to the Supremes and won.
wrote:
>
> Building a website is not rocket science. The only reason the US
> government can fuck up a website is someone in the government
> deliberately want it to fail.
Obamacare was the centerpiece of Obama's administration. Are you saying
> Building a website is not rocket science. The only reason the US
> government can fuck up a website is someone in the government
> deliberately want it to fail.
Obama's minions wanted their Dear Leader to fail?
https://www.inc.com/associated-press/management-failure-results-in-healthcare.gov-woes.html
CGI's track record, being fired by Ontario after failing to deliver was
not promising but the lobbyists were spreading the bucks around:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2013/10/16/meet-cgi-federal-the-company-behind-the-botched-launch-of-healthcare-gov/?noredirect=on
> Just buy an existing network. Keep the original staff. Nothing has
> changed, except government has become the majority shareholder. There is
> no reason for the same company under a new owner to fail unless someone
> deliberately undermine it by headhunting, or planting moles to sabotage it.
are going to allow an organization famous for incompetence and out of
control costs to go buy a network? Verizon's enterprise value is around
$340 billion. It wouldn't come cheap.
> There is no reason why the Chinese government can have so many
> successful and competitive giant corporations and the US government cannot.
of a national socialist economy. If you haven't noticed the US
government, and the US people, are polarized and becoming more so every
day. Electing a new cast of clowns every two or four years and letting
them argue is not the way to get things done.
> Or, do it the good old British way. Besides BBC being a crown
> corporation, commercial radio stations, television stations, and
> newspaper publishers were mandated to allot a fixed amount of time slot
> (or newspaper pages) for the governmental use.
managed to piss away an empire and world technological leadership. iirc
they also spawned a cottage industry of off-shore pirate broadcasters
when the populace got sick of the limited offerings of Auntie Bee.
> The US government can mandate all the cellular networks to provide
> unthrottled data service to the government as part of their licence
> requirement.
attempted to put the burden of background checks on local law
enforcement with no funding. Jay Printz of Ravalli County MT took that
to the Supremes and won.
D-FENS
Aug 25, 2018, 3:11:10β―PM8/25/18
to
Yampa River flows fall critically low
Steamboat Springs -- The Yampa River is in a critical state, especially its lower stretch which runs through Dinosaur National Monument.
<snip>
"If you can imagine, literally, the Yampa River getting to the point that all the water has been taken out of it, is frightening and monumental. It never has happened."
<snip>
On Tuesday, flows at Deerlodge Park fell to about 35 cubic feet per second. On Wednesday, it was up to 70 cfs. Historically, the river flows at 351 cfs on the same date.
Gunner Asch
Aug 25, 2018, 10:55:02β―PM8/25/18
to
On Thu, 23 Aug 2018 10:46:52 -0400, j6HL2?? ? ?????? ??????? ? ??c3Dyh
<6q...@PdwvC.com> wrote:
>
<6q...@PdwvC.com> wrote:
>
>The government can really do it cheaper. Ontario Health Insurance Plan
>(OHIP) is a fine example.
Is that why so many Canadians come to the US for medical care?
>(OHIP) is a fine example.
__
"Poor widdle Wudy...mentally ill, lies constantly, doesnt know who he is, or even what gender "he" is.
No more pathetic creature has ever walked the earth. But...he is locked into a mental hospital for the safety of the public.
Which is a very good thing."
Asun rauhassa, valmistaudun sotaan.
---
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Gunner Asch
Aug 25, 2018, 10:56:35β―PM8/25/18
to
On Thu, 23 Aug 2018 13:10:43 -0400, DyvIj?? ? ?????? ??????? ? ??nFvvT
<PR...@vsW3N.com> wrote:
<PR...@vsW3N.com> wrote:
>getting fleeced forever, Thailand grant concessions to foreign
>investors, in that Thailand will provide infrastructure, land, and
>guaranteed market share for foreign investors to make money, but
>eventually Thailand will own those equipment.
>
>The giant corporations in the US want to fleece you fools forever.
>That's why they taught you to hate Socialism.
We were taught to hate Socialism because of cell phones?
>investors, in that Thailand will provide infrastructure, land, and
>guaranteed market share for foreign investors to make money, but
>eventually Thailand will own those equipment.
>
>The giant corporations in the US want to fleece you fools forever.
>That's why they taught you to hate Socialism.
ROFLMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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