Back Pain

[Mark]

Does anyone in here have any experience with lumbar vertebrae fusion? I have had two operation on my L4-L5 disc, but am still in excruciating pain. I am going for another MRI tonight, and my surgeon told me the next step is fusion and I am scared. Is there anything to be worried about?

--
MARK LIBICH

[gruffydd]

    do not worry.

I have two welded and scaffolding screwed to the spine as an internal corset.  I have  constant background pain which varies with the weather, sometimes neglible, other times, well, there are plenty of people over the wall in a box that would be willing to put up with it.

When you consider the alternative, the fusion is worth going for.

send to me direct if you wish to know further?

Friend Tex might come in on this one

[Tex]

I have had three fusions and am currently awaiting another. I had the first
in 1989 and was very apprehensive at the thought of it but, apart from post
op pain for a few days (held at bay by morphine injections), I needn't have
worried. The second, higher up, I had in 1998 and was foolish enough to
agree to a 'new' procedure which had a redesigned 'cage' around the weak
parts and used partial bone grafting for additional strength. Unfortunately
this one only lasted about a year before the pain began to return.
Eventually, I had another op in 2000 to remove this fusion and replace it
with the more conventional 'scaffold' and bone powder grafting. Again this
did not cause me any particular concern because I knew what to expect. The
next one is to replace the original (1989) fusion which has developed a
fault. This one I am not looking forward to since I am that much older and
the pain threshold has lowered, added to the fact that I have been told that
it will probably mean about 8 hours on the table. However, since my quality
of life and general mobility is somewhat low at the moment, and ever
increasing doses of painkillers do little to help, I am more than willing to
have the op. I suggest that you ask your consultant to go through the
procedure with you (mine has a small model and diagrams/pictures etc.) so
that you understand how it's done. This helps quite a lot and certainly put
me at ease.

--
Tex

Kent
UK
>snip<

[SchizoidDrift]

Hello Mark,

I'm not at all certain if I should be responding since I don't know how
to properly join a newsgroup and this is my first time; however, if I may
add my two cents...

I had two orthopedic surgeons suggest a '360 degree' procedure which is
a spinal fusion with instrumentation. I was told to 1) live with the pain
or 2) go for the surgery and risk having less pain. I did some research
into spinal fusions and realized there were less invasive alternatives. My
mobility and range of motion would have been decreased significantly if
opting for the fusion, and that bothered me. It bothered me a lot,
therefore ... the third opinion.
I visited with a neurosurgeon who subsequently reviewed my MRI's and
ordered subsequent studies. He's not big on the last resort effort of
fusion and instead suggested I have a laminectomy and a foramenotomy (sorry
about the spelling if it's incorrect). I had the surgeries which provided
significant relief; however, once the pain was diminished, the pain I was
having on my LEFT side became readily apparent. Instead of more invasive
procedures (my choice) he referred me to a pain management specialist. Long
story short: my pain is being managed with the implant of a spinal cord
neurostimulator and medication; however, since this is a degenerative
condition I can expect more pain to be forthcoming. On the other hand, I've
heard that human trials of intervertebral disk implants are over and they've
begun the real thing.
There ARE alternatives to major, invasive surgeries. Use all the
resources at your disposal, do your research and get as many opinions that
you can which will assist you in making a solid, sound and informed
decision.
Best of luck!
SD

"Mark" <grmar...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:NMydnXWoc8_...@giganews.com...

[Stinkweed]

Welcome to the group SD, we are glad to have you here and you joined the
right way, by simply posting. Any ideas, views, news is welcome. We tend
to do a lot of just playing here, but try to help too when we can. But we
don't cover all things and your contribution may have helped this person.
So please stick around and post.

"SchizoidDrift" <sorryno...@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:OVQ7c.73455$vn.2...@sea-read.news.verio.net...

[Hilary]

"SchizoidDrift" <sorryno...@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:OVQ7c.73455$vn.2...@sea-read.news.verio.net...

. I was told to 1) live with the pain
> or 2) go for the surgery and risk having less pain. I did some research
> into spinal fusions and realized there were less invasive alternatives.
My
> mobility and range of motion would have been decreased significantly if
> opting for the fusion, and that bothered me. It bothered me a lot,
> therefore ... the third opinion.

Hi and welcome to our friendly little group.

I was told much the same thing and opted for pain killers . I suffer with 3
sites of pain ( neck, mid thorax, and lumbar) and also get periods of
sciatic pain as well transitory pain down arms etc.

The surgeon just wanted to" bolt" me together but his second sat down and
actually discussed all the problem as a whole and drew me some very
enlighting diagrams.

He also gave me some literature compiled anomymously from recent case
studies to read - very enlightning!!

Only 2 out of a control group of 50 patients having fusion actually got
significant relief. Mainly because as in my case other areas of pain are
masked by the strongest and as soon as that is reduced the other sites
become unbearable.

The next reason due to lack of complete convalescence. For instance having
to vacuum or pick up children and lack of resting in proper positions.Also
missing physio or not completing required excercise due to family
constraints. Older patients faired better for obvious reasons than this
group.

So now I use the PK's to get myself moving. I take them before swimming or
aquafit otherwise I wouldnt be able to take part. I work 24 hours now which
is a big improvement and my balance and general health I think is better.

What hasnt budged is the pain levels, which I was led to believe would
decrease as I got fitter. In fact the opposite is more obvioulsy true. The
more I do the worse it gets. But I've mostly learnt to work round the
problem.

:o)

[Stinkweed]

"Hilary" <hedge...@btinternet.com> wrote in message
news:c3q1p7$2bvq86$1...@ID-121442.news.uni-berlin.de...

I'm sorry to hear that Hilary. {{{{{{Hugs}}}}}

[Hilary]

"Stinkweed" <stin...@cricket.net> wrote in message
news:iLidnaorRrd...@giganews.com...

>
> I'm sorry to hear that Hilary. {{{{{{Hugs}}}}}
>

Awww thanks. {{{{{{{{ Stinkweed }}}}}}}}}

I try not to let it get in the way of living. Being back in the work force
makes a world of difference. And of course if I need the ostiopath I can now
afford to go ( our local national health doesnt cover it). I think that was
probably the worst phase - when I new the ostio could fix me but it was a
stark choice between the kid's food and an appointment.

:o)

[Stinkweed]

"Hilary" <hedge...@btinternet.com> wrote in message

news:c3ql7n$2bohnq$1...@ID-121442.news.uni-berlin.de...

That is a shame the national health doesn't cover the osteopath, but am glad
that you can now afford to go. I was hearing on television there is an new
experimental procedure for the back that isn't a fusion and I wish I could
explain it but I can't. It is like the part that is replaced has springs in
it so the back can bend and it sounded very promising. So It may be awhile
before it is used as it is experimental at the present.

[SchizoidDrift]

Hi Stinkweed,

Thanks for the warm welcome.
It's strange ... I've been computing for a long time (I got my first
machine in 1987 which didn't even have a hard drive, just two drive bays for
those big floppy discs) and I've never been part of a newsgroup. Back then
there were small, local online areas called BBS's (for the kiddies here <g>
that's 'Bulletin Board Service') and the only major ISP's were GEnie,
Prodigy and the new kid on the block, CompuServe with AOL coming online near
that time. Every now and again you'd come across a BBS that wasn't local,
however, and when you logged onto one of those you were REALLY surfing. I
remember GEnie had a complex set of keystrokes you had to use to move from
one area of the service to another. Anyway ... been computing forever, but
have never tried out newsgroups. Go figure.
It's nice to be here and I'm one who never has to be asked twice for his
opinion. Every now and then I'll give my offering without even being asked.
<grin>
BTW, any tips on downloading messages from newsgroups? Are there many
virus threats or threats of contracting one when downloading? So
far...which has been about two days now...I've only d/l'd message headers.
~SD~

"Stinkweed" <stin...@cricket.net> wrote in message

news:T4ednVkyapo...@giganews.com...

[SchizoidDrift]

Hi Hilary,

Wow! I'm sorry you have to be in such agony. I can only imagine how
you must feel.
So far I've rarely experienced any "back pain". The pain and the
neuropathies I have involve my legs. The lamenectomy and the foramenotomy
decreased the pain significantly on my right side, but after that was taken
care of the pain and the neuropathy in my left leg was even more apparent.
That's when I opted for the spinal cord stimulator implant, but not before
trying more epidural injections. Has you doctor suggested the SCS as an
alternative? For many people it seems to provide some relief (unfortunately
I wasn't included in the mix). You may want to inquire about it. Jerry
Lewis raves about how is implant has transformed his life. The same company
that implanted him did mine as well. It's worth a looksie even if it hasn't
been suggested. The lead can be placed at just about any point on the
spinal cord. Depending on what you and your doctor decide, it can either be
left "floating" or sutured in place. I opted for the suturing because
during the week trial period you're required to go through, I would get
different stimuli depending on my position. Suturing seemed the logical
recourse to prevent that. Again, check it out. IMHO, **anything** is
better than going under the knife for major surgery.
Currently I'm using the SCS in addition to pain medication to help keep
this in check.
You know, I came across similar statistics when I was researching the
efficacy of spinal fusion. I recall it being a high percentile of patients
who expressed little or no lasting relief post operatively. I posed that to
the neurosurgeon and he confirmed those stats. That action in and of itself
told me the guy was legit and that's why he was chosen. Jeez .... these
days you have to shop for doctors just like you would an attorney, a CPA or
a used car! <chuckle> But believe me, it can (literally) be a life saver
when you do.
~SD~

"Hilary" <hedge...@btinternet.com> wrote in message

news:c3q1p7$2bvq86$1...@ID-121442.news.uni-berlin.de...

[SchizoidDrift]

Hey Stinkweed,

There were several types of experimental artificial intervertebral
implants being trialed. The process you described sounds familiar and I
think it may be one of those.
So far, I haven't seen that human trials of the artificial disks have
ended. Do you know if they have or not? Or does anyone have any links you
can direct me to regarding that?
~SD~

"Stinkweed" <stin...@cricket.net> wrote in message

news:0tKdnfh4AuA...@giganews.com...

[Stinkweed]

Hi SD,

I haven't been into computers that long myself, to know everything your
talking about, I guess I have had a computer for around 5 years, somewhere
in that area. Long enough that I should know more than I do, that is for
sure.
As for downloading a virus from a news group I don't think you have too much
to worry about. I think almost everyone I know is protected by Norton or
some sort of virus software and I know most of the people here. We are all
careful to keep updated as we think way to much of each other to loose
contact due to a lost computer. I don't think a virus can travel through a
news group and if I am wrong PLEASE someone correct me. As long as no
attatchments are opened. We only have one rule here and it is self imposed
and that is we don't fight. We play, we support and just have fun.

"SchizoidDrift" <sorryno...@nospam.com> wrote in message

news:yso8c.74188$vn.2...@sea-read.news.verio.net...

[SchizoidDrift]

Hey Stinkweed,

Oh good lord. I think I just dated myself (not to be confused with
acceptable social activities found in the deep south, thankyouverymuch!).
Okay, I'll admit that I'm old. Very, very old. In fact, I'm so old I
knew dirt before He did. ;)
That's good to know about virus's and newsgroups, but I'm still not sure
if downloading a message is the same as downloading an attachment. They're
different? Or is d/ling a newsgroup message no different than downloading
normal, everyday stuff from off the web (aside from file attachments of
course)?
~SD~

"Stinkweed" <stin...@cricket.net> wrote in message

news:a4udnUXrhLe...@giganews.com...

[Stinkweed]

I thought I wrote the name down, but I can't find it anywhere. If I do run
across it I will be sure to post it. But I have a feeling if I did I must
have thrown it away. Because it would have been by my chair and I have just
looked through all my papers and can not find it.

"SchizoidDrift" <sorryno...@nospam.com> wrote in message

news:VJo8c.74190$vn.2...@sea-read.news.verio.net...

[Stinkweed]

SD,

I just got a late start on computers, I'm o o o ol I just can't say it, I'm
a over age teen ager! ;-) Don't worry about getting a virus from a news
group. Your Norton will go off and let you know. I have never seen a virus
in a news group and I go to several and have never got a virus and no one
else has either. How could you possibly be on the computer so long and not
get involved in any groups?

"SchizoidDrift" <sorryno...@nospam.com> wrote in message

news:CYo8c.74191$vn.2...@sea-read.news.verio.net...

[SchizoidDrift]

Hiya Stinkweed,

I've been involved in groups (not newsgroups) off and on since I first
began computing. Primarily those groups were via the ISP I was subscribing
to at the time. Then came the chatrooms. Chatrooms are okay (if you can
find one that is consistently loyal to the topic it represents), but they
lack the substance and continuity of a 'discussion group' (via the ISP) and
the newsgroups, such as this one.

Recently, I was involved with a couple of discussions at the AARP site.
AARP sent me information about itself and I thought I'd check it out since
it's one of America's largest lobbyists, and being a bleeding heart,
card-carrying, radical far left liberal (actually not that far left, but it
scares the righteous poopie out of far right-wingers when they see that
<chuckle>), I wasn't about to send my money to support some cause, or
causes, that I was vehemently opposed to. Anyway, I was part of a couple of
discussions over there and then my machine crashed, totally frying my hard
drive destroying all the data on it. I've just never gone back since I got
my new machine. The discussions were becoming repetitive anyway.

I'd heard of newsgroups for years but never bothered to look into them
since I could easily access similar discussions or groups via specific
website, such as AARP, or discussion groups via the ISP I was subscribing
to. But I have this niftly little service that provides secure server
access and it came with it's own newsgroup subscriptions and then .... well,
here I am! :)

Computing for only five years?! My lord in heaven! You're just a
baaayby! I bet it's been a blast for you, eh?

~SD~
--
"We must not confuse dissent with disloyalty. When the loyal opposition
dies, I think the soul of America dies with it." Edward R. Murrow

"Stinkweed" <stin...@cricket.net> wrote in message

news:-76dnTVvg77...@giganews.com...

[SchizoidDrift]

Okay. It'd be kewl if you found it. I've searched the web for any hint
that human trials have ceased and have yet to find anything that confirms
it. But what you posted sure sounded like a type of artificial disk that I
came across months ago.

Someone recently told me of a women she either knew or heard of that had
ALL OF HER DISKS replaced. Can you imagine?? Now THAT's a case I'd surely
like to know more about. ALL of 'em. Jeez!

~SD~
--
"We must not confuse dissent with disloyalty. When the loyal opposition
dies, I think the soul of America dies with it." Edward R. Murrow

"Stinkweed" <stin...@cricket.net> wrote in message

news:OfudnbTLALQ...@giganews.com...

[SchizoidDrift]

Hi Stinkweed and all,

I recall asking about virus's and the like in one of my first posts. Here's
some information that maybe everyone should be aware of. I just got an
alert from my virus protection stating that an intrusion was attempted. I
researched the "subseven trojan" info my virus scan provided and here's what
I discovered (Note: the keyword that got my attention is "NEWSGROUPS" ...
make certain your virus detection software is updated regularly!):

Name: Backdoor.SubSeven
Alias(es): Backdoor-G, Backdoor.G, Backdoor.SubSeven.1_7, Backdoor.Trojan,
SubSeven.backdoor.v10, SubSeven.backdoor.v11, SubSeven.backdoor.v13,
SubSeven.backdoor.v15, SubSeven.backdoor.v16, SubSeven.backdoor.v17,
SubSeven.backdoor.v18, SubSeven.backdoor.v19, SubSeven.backdoor.v2_0,
SubSeven.backdoor.v21, SubSeven.backdoor.v20, SubSeven.backdoor.v213,
SubSeven.backdoor.v213.unp, SubSeven.backdoor.v21a, SubSeven.backdoor.v21b,
SubSeven.backdoor.v21g, SubSeven.backdoor.v22, SubSeven.backdoor.v22a,
SubSeven.backdoor.v22b
Virus Type: Network Trojan
Description:

Backdoor.SubSeven has been distributed as an email attachment and in
newsgroups. It uses various names. The infected system acts as a server for
the client controlled by the virus author. The trojan may create any of the
following files on the system:

WINDOWS\

a.. DATA2.EXE
b.. KERNEL16.DLL
c.. NODLL.EXE
d.. RUNDLL16.COM
e.. SERVER.EXE
f.. SYSTEMTRAYICON!.EXE
g.. TINURAK.EXE
h.. WINDOW.EXE
WINDOWS\SYSTEM\

a.. LMDRKI_33.DLL
b.. WATCHING.DLL
The trojan also modifies the RunServices key in the registry, WIN.INI or
SYSTEM.INI to launch the application when the system reboots. The
application is not visible in Task Manager.

Backdoor.SubSeven attempts to establish a TCP/IP connection. If successful,
the controlling client gains remote access and is able to perform a variety
of tasks.

Detection:

Freedom Anti-Virus detects and disinfects this Network Trojan.

--
"We must not confuse dissent with disloyalty. When the loyal opposition
dies, I think the soul of America dies with it." Edward R. Murrow

> "SchizoidDrift" <sorryno...@nospam.com> wrote in message

[Stinkweed]

Thanks for the information SD.

"SchizoidDrift" <sorryno...@nospam.com> wrote in message

news:sTG8c.74618$vn.2...@sea-read.news.verio.net...

[Hilary]

"Stinkweed" <stin...@cricket.net> wrote in message

news:0tKdnfh4AuA...@giganews.com...

It is like the part that is replaced has springs in
> it so the back can bend and it sounded very promising. So It may be
awhile
> before it is used as it is experimental at the present.
>

Well it sounds like a big improvement.

The problem is the human body is designed to self heal. As soon as you
interfere by operating the bodies own help mechanisms start fighting what's
being done. In the long term I dont think any procedure goes exactly to plan
or is ever completely problem free.

:o)

[Hilary]

"SchizoidDrift" <sorryno...@nospam.com> wrote in message

news:kCp8c.74198$vn.2...@sea-read.news.verio.net...

>
> Someone recently told me of a women she either knew or heard of that
had
> ALL OF HER DISKS replaced. Can you imagine??

I'm not sure they would be able to do all yet.

I'm waiting for nano technology to get going.

They could send a tiny army in to fix all the grotty bits of my back while I
carried on as normal. Imagine waking up every successive morning to reduced
pain levels and then to wake up one day and just feel rested, no pain at
all.

:o)

[Hilary]

"SchizoidDrift" <sorryno...@nospam.com> wrote in message

news:6Go8c.74189$vn.2...@sea-read.news.verio.net...

> That's when I opted for the spinal cord stimulator implant

As far as I can tell the main problem with this would be that I've got more
than one site of pain. And if one were to be masked the others would
amplify. So far the only thing that actually wiped out everything was
toothache!!!!!!! Not recommended.

I have had some success in the past with Tens but I found it only helped for
short periods. Also it doesnt replace PK's altogether. For instance you use
it and it gives an indeterminate period of relief. A pk lasts a predictable
amount of time and its easier to go out with a spare pill in your pocket.

So for instance if I went to aquafit ( aerobics in water - fun) and used the
tens before I went in it might wear off in the middle whereas once I've
taken the pk I know I've got about 4 hours.

Its also problematic at work. I cant use a tens machine around people with
pacemakers. I also couldnt guarantee to use it as and when I needed it.

:o)

[SchizoidDrift]

I had a TENS unit Hilary, and the difference between the two is as the
difference is between night and day. Whereas the TENS unit provided no
relief whatsoever, the SCS provides nominal relief (at best).
The other significant difference is that the SCS works from the
*inside*, with direct stimulation provided to the spinal cord as opposed to
the TENS unit having to pass through skin, muscle, tissue, etc.
Additionally, there are literally thousands of combinations of settings with
the SCS (the company rep has to be called in to re-program the unit at that
point, however). But there are a few settings on the hand-held programmer
that you place over the implanted pulse generator (some call it the battery)
that you do have control of.
Regarding the placement of the lead? I'd think the higher the lead
placement on the spinal cord the greater the coverage would be.
It's something you could pitch at your doc and get professional feedback
on. Like I said, some people swear by it while I, on the other hand,
eventually end up swearing *at* it. ;)
For me it wasn't the best option, but it was better than undergoing the
"360 degree" procedure that has a "success" rate much lower than the SCS.
Jeez, I'd even consider intervertebral disk implants over the 360 after
learning of its long-term end results; however, I still wouldn't undergo the
disk implants until some long-term data comes in. Until then I, like many
(if not all) of us here, make the best with what we have.

~SD~

ps: I can't tell you how empowering it is just to be able to share all of
this stuff with everyone. For the past couple of years I've had to explain
to those who, although very well meaning, would ask how my "back" was
feeling. It's nice to be able to be among people who know the difference
between "back" pain and
"BACK?!-OH-MY-GAWD-IN-HEAVEN-YOU-HAVE-*NO-IDEA!*-WHAT-YOU'RE-TALKING-ABOUT!!
" pain. Know what I mean?

--
"We must not confuse dissent with disloyalty. When the loyal opposition
dies, I think the soul of America dies with it." Edward R. Murrow

"Hilary" <hedge...@btinternet.com> wrote in message

news:c3vlar$2b0l4g$1...@ID-121442.news.uni-berlin.de...

[SchizoidDrift]

<sigh> Now THAT would be nothing less than awesome.

~SD~

--
"We must not confuse dissent with disloyalty. When the loyal opposition
dies, I think the soul of America dies with it." Edward R. Murrow

"Hilary" <hedge...@btinternet.com> wrote in message

news:c3vk05$2do3c3$1...@ID-121442.news.uni-berlin.de...

[Hilary]

"SchizoidDrift" <sorryno...@nospam.com> wrote in message

news:A9J8c.74624$vn.2...@sea-read.news.verio.net...

>
> ps: I can't tell you how empowering it is just to be able to share all of
> this stuff with everyone. For the past couple of years I've had to
explain
> to those who, although very well meaning, would ask how my "back" was
> feeling. It's nice to be able to be among people who know the difference
> between "back" pain and
>
"BACK?!-OH-MY-GAWD-IN-HEAVEN-YOU-HAVE-*NO-IDEA!*-WHAT-YOU'RE-TALKING-ABOUT!!

This is the attitude that really gets up my nose.

Its the "I dont know why your making such a fuss, its only a bit of back
ache" routine.

And then they go on about pain threshholds and in so many words imply that
you are a wimp who would run crying to their mothers over a splinter.

It is nice to let off steam sometimes.

:o)

[SchizoidDrift]

I think the trick is to be tactful and educate at the same time. The
majority of people are simply ignorant of what our type of "back pain"
entails. I rarely have back pain. That type of pain is most often treated
with a couple of ibuprofen, a warm compress and some stretching
exercises...and maybe not even all that. Gimme THAT kind of pain ANY day as
opposed to the pain DDD serves up and I'd be halfway to 7th heaven!

~SD~

--
"We must not confuse dissent with disloyalty. When the loyal opposition
dies, I think the soul of America dies with it." Edward R. Murrow

"Hilary" <hedge...@btinternet.com> wrote in message

news:c403j6$2b2luv$1...@ID-121442.news.uni-berlin.de...

[SchizoidDrift]

Ah! I forgot to ask THE important question: HOW do virus's and Trojan's
infect Newsgroups? Are there downloadable files posted sometimes?

~SD~

--
"We must not confuse dissent with disloyalty. When the loyal opposition
dies, I think the soul of America dies with it." Edward R. Murrow

"Stinkweed" <stin...@cricket.net> wrote in message

news:LaydnY_uZb2...@giganews.com...

[Stinkweed]

Not unless it is a binaries group where there can be pictures posted. A
regular group will not accept attatchments.

"SchizoidDrift" <sorryno...@nospam.com> wrote in message

news:ZOP8c.74655$vn.2...@sea-read.news.verio.net...

[Hilary]

"SchizoidDrift" <sorryno...@nospam.com> wrote in message

news:EEP8c.74653$vn.2...@sea-read.news.verio.net...

> exercises...and maybe not even all that. Gimme THAT kind of pain ANY day
as
> opposed to the pain DDD serves up and I'd be halfway to 7th heaven!
>

Yup its just ignorance.

Do you use any pain techniques?? Meditation, relaxation etc? I find it
helps a lot.

I'm asthmatic and I was so ill as a child. The meds were useless and I'd
sit up nights listening to the sound of my wheezing. I learnt to send
myself somewhere else! I would imagine walking along a beach and the
wheezing became the sound of the waves. It would be enough to let me drop
off to sleep and I remember dreaming vividly ( probably lack of oxygen).

I use the same methods to help with bad days now. In one scenario I imagine
that I'm in hospital surrounded by helpful staff. A nurse walks up with the
biggest syringe of pk that I've ever seen and as it empties I start going
numb from the toes up. Usually by then the real pain killer is starting to
cut in a bit.

It doesnt help with the migraines though. I cant seem to "cut" through the
headache.

I dont really know how to describe how it works but it does. I remember
doing it when I was about 6 (I'm 50 now). I suppose its meditation of a
sort??

:o)

[SchizoidDrift]

Hi Hilary,

I recently converted to Buddhism which has helped quite a bit. I'm not
sure if it's the meditation that's helping or just the wonderfully pragmatic
philosophy the teachings of the Buddha left us with. These days I don't
question too many things that seem to work for me. I simply try to embrace
them.

I think what you did as a child is awesome! I'm guessing you didn't
have any guidance either and it just happened? For a kid to move into a
safe space like that may not be too unusual, especially when kids have such
rich imaginations, but to be aware of what you've done and stick to it is
pretty kewl. It's odd that your technique doesn't work on migraines. Maybe
it has something to do with the pain directly affecting those areas of your
brain and you can't seem to generate the Alpha (I think?) waves that relaxes
you. That would seem to be the logical reason, yes?

Yeah, I'd definitely consider it a meditation ... and clearly one that
produces results.

~SD~

--
"We must not confuse dissent with disloyalty. When the loyal opposition
dies, I think the soul of America dies with it." Edward R. Murrow

"Hilary" <hedge...@btinternet.com> wrote in message

news:c40jj9$2ddhk2$1...@ID-121442.news.uni-berlin.de...

[SchizoidDrift]

That makes sense <whew!>. I think. This ISN'T a binaries group, is it??

Thanks, Stinkweed.

~SD~

--
"We must not confuse dissent with disloyalty. When the loyal opposition
dies, I think the soul of America dies with it." Edward R. Murrow

"Stinkweed" <stin...@cricket.net> wrote in message

news:r8adnRD-zZQ...@giganews.com...

[Stinkweed]

No this is not a binaries news group. So like I said don't worry.

"SchizoidDrift" <sorryno...@nospam.com> wrote in message

news:%rR8c.74663$vn.2...@sea-read.news.verio.net...

[SchizoidDrift]

After all is said and done, I've been extremely fortunate with
computing. As I said earlier I've been 'putering and part of online
communities for years, and until 5 or 6 years ago I'd NEVER used a firewall
or a virus scan program. My machines were never infected nor was my system
compromised in any way (as far as I know...if either occurred I never knew
about it and none of my systems were ever damaged). But within a year of
using a firewall and virus scanners I started experiencing all sorts of
weird little things.

A computer I recently purchased within hours of going online, my system
was attacked with the Welchia worm. Took a little work to get rid of it and
immediately afterward I went out and purchased a full suite of security
software. Just goes to show that you can't be too safe these days. But
again, I've been extremely fortunate considering the years I've been doing
this, so I'm not going to complain too much considering what *could* have
been happening all this time.

~SD~

--
"We must not confuse dissent with disloyalty. When the loyal opposition
dies, I think the soul of America dies with it." Edward R. Murrow

"Stinkweed" <stin...@cricket.net> wrote in message

news:DdGdnR3mQZW...@giganews.com...

[SchizoidDrift]

Hi Hilary,

I agree with you 100% about the body's ability to self-heal. But with
all the chemicals, compounds, pollutants in addition to more and more 'bugs'
being released from tropical rain forest regions that have been existing
happily contained in that environment since the dawn of humankind, the human
body sometimes if forced to succumb to those things that *we* have created.
And it sucks.

I also agree that we can take things too far when trying to make
something better and that things don't always go as planned. If Murphy's
Law applied to anything, it's the cure for what ails you. <grin> In that
regard I place a majority of the responsibility on the physicians. THEY are
the one's who should know better. "Should" is the operative word here.

~SD~
--
"We must not confuse dissent with disloyalty. When the loyal opposition
dies, I think the soul of America dies with it." Edward R. Murrow

"Hilary" <hedge...@btinternet.com> wrote in message

news:c3vjgg$26c4tu$1...@ID-121442.news.uni-berlin.de...

[Hilary]

"SchizoidDrift" <sorryno...@nospam.com> wrote in message

news:mqR8c.74662$vn.2...@sea-read.news.verio.net...

>
> I think what you did as a child is awesome! I'm guessing you didn't
> have any guidance either and it just happened? For a kid to move into a
> safe space like that may not be too unusual, especially when kids have
such
> rich imaginations, but to be aware of what you've done and stick to it is
> pretty kewl.

I suspect the whole thing was an extension of the fantasy world 3-4 year
olds seem to be able to spin around themselves. I think I just never
stopped having a reason to continue ( I was asthmatic from about 6mths old I
believe).

It would be interesting to be monitored to see which brain waves are active
and where. I think its already noted that children use areas of the brain
which adults dont. Maybe I'm still using those areas???

:o)

[Stinkweed]

I have "never" heard of a virus in a group. Even a binaries group. They
are mostly sent I think in emails sent as attachments. I have never done
bulletin boards so I don't know I don't talk to strangers in the chats, I
just depend on Norton and so far it has not let me down.

"SchizoidDrift" <sorryno...@nospam.com> wrote in message

news:eR%8c.75000$vn.2...@sea-read.news.verio.net...

[SchizoidDrift]

You could be right, Hilary. I think many of us tend to lose the
imagination we had as children, the exceptions being those wildly
imaginative and creative writers ... right now JK Rowling leaps into focus.
She's one of those rare talents that successfully combined the rich
imagination a child with the skill of a writer and made a bundle
entertaining children of all ages (admittedly I'm a big fan of her work
<blush>).
You seem to have the same ability. You've clung onto that part of your
childhood -- the imaginative part -- and brought it with you into adulthood
to serve your needs. For many people just learning to still their mind is
really difficult, but it's clearly something you've mastered. Yeah, I'd
have to agree that you're still using those parts of the brain you used when
you were a kid.

~SD~
--
"We must not confuse dissent with disloyalty. When the loyal opposition
dies, I think the soul of America dies with it." Edward R. Murrow

"Hilary" <hedge...@btinternet.com> wrote in message

news:c423sa$2d9krm$1...@ID-121442.news.uni-berlin.de...

[Hilary]

"SchizoidDrift" <sorryno...@nospam.com> wrote in message

news:CM69c.75048$vn.2...@sea-read.news.verio.net...

Yeah, I'd
> have to agree that you're still using those parts of the brain you used
when
> you were a kid.

I think it might be worse than that!!!!!

I still have to bite the head off a jelly baby before eating it ( for
safety) and insist on a lolly when we go for a Little Chef. And theres
nothing finer than scuffing through pile of leaves in autumn and splashing
in puddles.

lol

:o)

[SchizoidDrift]

...on the other hand one could say that some kids never grow up! :)

And that's not a bad thing.

~SD~
ps: What's a jelly baby and a Little Chef? (a BBC American here)

--
"We must not confuse dissent with disloyalty. When the loyal opposition
dies, I think the soul of America dies with it." Edward R. Murrow

"Hilary" <hedge...@btinternet.com> wrote in message

news:c48463$2e45n6$1...@ID-121442.news.uni-berlin.de...

[Hilary]

"SchizoidDrift" <sorryno...@nospam.com> wrote in message

news:0ZM9c.75426$vn.2...@sea-read.news.verio.net...

> ...on the other hand one could say that some kids never grow up! :)
>
> And that's not a bad thing.
>
> ~SD~
> ps: What's a jelly baby and a Little Chef? (a BBC American here)
>

Little Chef is a travel food chain. Some of them are attached to Travelodge
(motel). Usually found on a busy route. Does fries and grills and more
these days.

http://www.little-chef.co.uk/homepage/

Jelly babies are a good old fashioned sweet. Soft and slightly chewy. Fruity
flavour.

http://www.qnf.com.au/images/c002_sml.jpg

:o)

[SchizoidDrift]

I see. We still have Travel Lodges here; however, from those that are
located in this area, I don't think I'd want to stay in one of 'em. I'm
guessing the comopany is a franchise (like so many are these days) and the
individual owners here, anyway, just don't care about keeping up appearances
(hehehe...I just HAD to say that) <ahem> .... anyway ....

I'm reminded of two sweets when you described Jelly Babies: old fashiond
gum drops -- soft and kinda chewy wiith a sugar coating and Gummy Bears (and
virtually every other animal imaginable these days).

Hey! Wait a second! ... you had to have *candy* >before< you went out to
dinner at Little Chef?? (I'm basing that assumption that "lolly" is
abbreviated for lollipop or candy 'sucker'.)

~SD~ <sigh> One of these days .... the Emerald Isle. <sigh>, again.

In spite of us taking over the job as Rulers of the World <grin>, I still
have tremendous affection for England. Ooops ... you *are* British, right??
::preparing to BLUSH just in case you're not::

--
"We must not confuse dissent with disloyalty. When the loyal opposition
dies, I think the soul of America dies with it." Edward R. Murrow

"Hilary" <hedge...@btinternet.com> wrote in message

news:c49ff6$2h3bl4$1...@ID-121442.news.uni-berlin.de...