Familia is back.

matt....@gmail.com

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Dec 13, 2018, 4:18:02 PM12/13/18

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Not a bad signing, really. I like him as a setup man. Could be a good bullpen for a change. They need a few more arms, or another starter to let them go longer.

Which means, of course, trading Thor is a serious mistake.

*ernie

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Dec 14, 2018, 12:10:02 AM12/14/18

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On 12/13/2018 4:18 PM, matt....@gmail.com wrote:
> Not a bad signing, really. I like him as a setup man. Could be a good bullpen for a change. They need a few more arms, or another starter to let them go longer.
>
> Which means, of course, trading Thor is a serious mistake.
>

Trading Thor would be outright stupidity. He has the potential to have a
Nolan Ryan type career. The Marlins would have to give the Mets
Realmuto, Starlin Castro plus allow them the opportunuity to rape (not
literally) the the entire minor league system of the Marlins.

Bob4Health

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Dec 14, 2018, 8:45:04 AM12/14/18

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IMHO I think Syndergaard is a much better pitcher than Ryan. While his fastball may be a few ticks slower, his control is MUCH better. In fact, Ryan was a wild and his winning percentage in MLB is frankly not that good.

Both pitchers have pitched four seasons for the Mets. The comparison isn't close, Ryan is not in Syndergaard class over their Mets career.

He is perhaps the most overrated pitcher in history. In Ryan's first 4 years of pitching, he had a losing record and did nothing special. Syndergaard has had injuries but has been great for the most part when he's pitched.

Syndergaard 4 seasons he is 37-26 with a 2.93 era 116 walks, 572 K

Ryan's 4 seasons he was 29-38 with a 3.58 era with 344 walks 493 Ks

Syndergaard's first four seasons blow Ryan out of the water.

matt....@gmail.com

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Dec 14, 2018, 9:13:04 AM12/14/18

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On Friday, December 14, 2018 at 8:45:04 AM UTC-5, Bob4Health wrote:
> On Thursday, December 13, 2018 at 9:10:02 PM UTC-8, *ernie wrote:
> > On 12/13/2018 4:18 PM, matt....@gmail.com wrote:
> > > Not a bad signing, really. I like him as a setup man. Could be a good bullpen for a change. They need a few more arms, or another starter to let them go longer.
> > >
> > > Which means, of course, trading Thor is a serious mistake.
> > >
> >
> >
> > Trading Thor would be outright stupidity. He has the potential to have a
> > Nolan Ryan type career. The Marlins would have to give the Mets
> > Realmuto, Starlin Castro plus allow them the opportunuity to rape (not
> > literally) the the entire minor league system of the Marlins.
>
> IMHO I think Syndergaard is a much better pitcher than Ryan. While his fastball may be a few ticks slower, his control is MUCH better. In fact, Ryan was a wild and his winning percentage in MLB is frankly not that good.

His winning percentage is a useless statistic when you consider most of the teams he pitched for. I think if you compare Ryan and Noah at the same age, the speed is right about the same. Remember, Ryan put on some weight and ticked up that fastball. I suspect Ryan's curve was better though.

>
> Both pitchers have pitched four seasons for the Mets. The comparison isn't close, Ryan is not in Syndergaard class over their Mets career.

Well, no. Different time, different club. Seaver and Koosman were the Mets staff then.

>
> He is perhaps the most overrated pitcher in history. In Ryan's first 4 years of pitching, he had a losing record and did nothing special. Syndergaard has had injuries but has been great for the most part when he's pitched.

Overrated? No. The man pitched how many no-hitters? That's a good measure of pitching, since your fielders have nothing to do with things. Ryan also pitched how many complete games to Thor's ... one? Different game, we are comparing apples and oranges. They are both amazing.

>
> Syndergaard 4 seasons he is 37-26 with a 2.93 era 116 walks, 572 K
>
>
> Ryan's 4 seasons he was 29-38 with a 3.58 era with 344 walks 493 Ks
>
> Syndergaard's first four seasons blow Ryan out of the water.

Let me know when Noah pitches his first no-hitter, k? Or his second. You know, or his third.

:)

tmp

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Dec 14, 2018, 11:08:55 AM12/14/18

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On Friday, December 14, 2018 at 8:45:04 AM UTC-5, Bob4Health wrote:

I don't want to see Syndergaard traded either, and if he is, it had better be for a boat load of talent coming back to the Mets.

But as far as Ryan is concerned, I think calling him "overrated" is a bit unfair. He was not as good as the very best pitchers in baseball history, but I doubt you will find many who have studied it at all who will actually say that he was. Hence, not overrated.

But this doesn't mean he wasn't great in his own right. He did great things. He pitched for 27 years in the majors (which is older than Noah is now!). And I do believe that longevity is one measure of greatness - the fact that an athlete can be physically talented enough, and durable enough, to compete at that level for so long. That long career with the 324 wins, and the all time record 5714 strikeouts, and the 7 no hitters etc., didn't happen by accident.

Syndergaard's Mets career has been better so far than what Ryan did as a Met. But that doesn't mean his overall career will end up being better. It might, but we don't know that yet. But I would like to find out with him wearing a Mets uniform.

Bob4Health

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Dec 14, 2018, 12:20:13 PM12/14/18

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The comparison was trading Sngergaard would be like trading Ryan.
Leave out run lost, and we ae left with the fact that Syndergaard
after 4 seasons had

A better ERA, less than a 1/4 of the number of walks, more strikeouts.

As far as the teams, Syndergaard pitched on the 2018 Mets which is as bad sas they get.

Control is a huge difference.

Even looking at Ryan's lifetime statistics, he is not much more than a
.500 Winning percentage.

How many no hitters did Ryan pitch his 1st four years?

Thor's lifetime winning percentage is better than Ryans.

Yes Ryan pitched a lot of years. I know a surgeon that operated on his arm
and said it looked like chopped meat.

Syndergaard has the potential to be a far better pitcher, because he throws strikes, strikes out MORE people, and walks a 1/4 of the batters.

Will he throw a no hitter? That's just a single game event, but I bet he will.

matt....@gmail.com

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Dec 14, 2018, 12:50:34 PM12/14/18

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On Friday, December 14, 2018 at 12:20:13 PM UTC-5, Bob4Health wrote:
> On Friday, December 14, 2018 at 8:08:55 AM UTC-8, tmp wrote:
> > On Friday, December 14, 2018 at 8:45:04 AM UTC-5, Bob4Health wrote:
> > > On Thursday, December 13, 2018 at 9:10:02 PM UTC-8, *ernie wrote:
> > > > On 12/13/2018 4:18 PM, matt....@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > > Not a bad signing, really. I like him as a setup man. Could be a good bullpen for a change. They need a few more arms, or another starter to let them go longer.
> > > > >
> > > > > Which means, of course, trading Thor is a serious mistake.
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Trading Thor would be outright stupidity. He has the potential to have a
> > > > Nolan Ryan type career. The Marlins would have to give the Mets
> > > > Realmuto, Starlin Castro plus allow them the opportunuity to rape (not
> > > > literally) the the entire minor league system of the Marlins.
> > >
> > > IMHO I think Syndergaard is a much better pitcher than Ryan. While his fastball may be a few ticks slower, his control is MUCH better. In fact, Ryan was a wild and his winning percentage in MLB is frankly not that good.
> > >
> > > Both pitchers have pitched four seasons for the Mets. The comparison isn't close, Ryan is not in Syndergaard class over their Mets career.
> > >
> > > He is perhaps the most overrated pitcher in history. In Ryan's first 4 years of pitching, he had a losing record and did nothing special. Syndergaard has had injuries but has been great for the most part when he's pitched.
> > >
> > > Syndergaard 4 seasons he is 37-26 with a 2.93 era 116 walks, 572 K
> > >
> > >
> > > Ryan's 4 seasons he was 29-38 with a 3.58 era with 344 walks 493 Ks
> > >
> > > Syndergaard's first four seasons blow Ryan out of the water.
> >
> >
> > I don't want to see Syndergaard traded either, and if he is, it had better be for a boat load of talent coming back to the Mets.
> >
> > But as far as Ryan is concerned, I think calling him "overrated" is a bit unfair. He was not as good as the very best pitchers in baseball history, but I doubt you will find many who have studied it at all who will actually say that he was. Hence, not overrated.
> >
> > But this doesn't mean he wasn't great in his own right. He did great things. He pitched for 27 years in the majors (which is older than Noah is now!). And I do believe that longevity is one measure of greatness - the fact that an athlete can be physically talented enough, and durable enough, to compete at that level for so long. That long career with the 324 wins, and the all time record 5714 strikeouts, and the 7 no hitters etc., didn't happen by accident.
> >
> > Syndergaard's Mets career has been better so far than what Ryan did as a Met. But that doesn't mean his overall career will end up being better. It might, but we don't know that yet. But I would like to find out with him wearing a Mets uniform.
>
>
> The comparison was trading Sngergaard would be like trading Ryan.
> Leave out run lost, and we ae left with the fact that Syndergaard
> after 4 seasons had

Not entirely true. The actual comparison was "Trading Thor would be outright stupidity. He has the potential to have a Nolan Ryan type career." which is pretty much true. Perhaps better.

>
> A better ERA, less than a 1/4 of the number of walks, more strikeouts.
>
> As far as the teams, Syndergaard pitched on the 2018 Mets which is as bad sas they get.
>
> Control is a huge difference.

Definitely. This was something that didn't come along until later. Ryan was pretty much the original "fireballer" .. a guy that threw REALLY hard but didn't always hit what he was aiming at.

>
> Even looking at Ryan's lifetime statistics, he is not much more than a
> .500 Winning percentage.
>
> How many no hitters did Ryan pitch his 1st four years?

Clearly none, since the first one came just a few years later. :)

>
> Thor's lifetime winning percentage is better than Ryans.

That's a silly comparison. Nolan was around longer than Thor has been alive.

>
> Yes Ryan pitched a lot of years. I know a surgeon that operated on his arm
> and said it looked like chopped meat.

And yet, it didn't give until the very end. And, by the way, he pitched against his son after he retired .. blew him away.

>
> Syndergaard has the potential to be a far better pitcher, because he throws strikes, strikes out MORE people, and walks a 1/4 of the batters.

Oh, I agree. Which is why I was the one that said they shouldn't trade him.

>
> Will he throw a no hitter? That's just a single game event, but I bet he will.

Hard to say. No hitters are a combination of a lot of things. Great defense, which Noah has not enjoyed. A lot of luck. A really good day of pitching. Will he? No idea. I would neither bet against nor for it.