worst looking DP I've ever seen

ruben safir

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May 25, 2019, 6:08:03 PM5/25/19

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Rosario just repeatedly doesn't look like a SS. This DP against Cabera
looks just so awkward. He has zero grace.

Bob4Health

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May 26, 2019, 9:57:13 PM5/26/19

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On Saturday, May 25, 2019 at 3:08:03 PM UTC-7, ruben safir wrote:
> Rosario just repeatedly doesn't look like a SS. This DP against Cabera
> looks just so awkward. He has zero grace.

The worst range of any shortstop and the most errors. Other than that
he's a gold glove infielder.

I'd like to see them throw him into center and leave him there. He can hit better than Lagaraes and has the tools to be a fine center fielder.

The fact that Samuel was didn't make it, it's easier than SS.

ruben safir

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May 27, 2019, 3:57:13 AM5/27/19

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On 5/26/19 9:57 PM, Bob4Health wrote:
> I'd like to see them throw him into center and leave him there.

Maybe under center and leave home there. He just sucks and I don't want
him cloggings CF. And he is not better than Lagares ...

Bob4Health

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May 27, 2019, 11:52:24 AM5/27/19

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He's only hitting over 100 points better than him.

He's better at the Lagares are batting average, hitting with power, stealing bases, driving in and scoring runs.

Other than that there are no differences between them offensively.

Hass

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May 27, 2019, 8:05:48 PM5/27/19

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Lagares is a fun defender to watch...offensively, he's truly one of the worst OF in baseball. Almost 1800 AB and a sub .300 OPB...an 84 OPS+ for his career. $9MM this year...thankfully, he's out of here next season. Rosario in over 900AB is not much better, but at least has an upside given his age since he's only 23 and Lagares is past 30 now.

Bob4Health

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May 27, 2019, 8:41:37 PM5/27/19

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Exactly, he's only 23 and has clearly improved. This is only his 2nd full season. He's made a lot of progress in plate discipline.

Lagares has no upside.

ruben safir

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May 27, 2019, 9:57:57 PM5/27/19

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On 5/27/19 8:41 PM, Bob4Health wrote:
> Lagares is a fun defender to watch...offensively, he's truly one of the worst OF in baseball.

Accept that wrong. He is not just fun to watch. He is a game breaker
in the OF

Rosario since 2017 has a slashline of 253/290/386 for an OPS+ of 86
Largares as been likewise miseriable 249/.300/.350 and an OPS+ 77

a) accept the Lagares hit last season
b) Lagares can field and run the bases.. and reached a 5+ WAR as full
time player, which frankly is a level Rosario will never ever reach.

SO I have two pathetic hitters, one a defensive whiz and the other
should be sent back to AAA. It is bluntly clear who the CFer is.

ruben safir

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May 27, 2019, 9:59:59 PM5/27/19

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On 5/27/19 8:41 PM, Bob4Health wrote:

> Exactly, he's only 23 and has clearly improved.

no he hasn't... not even a little bit. In fact, Rosario has digressed

Bob4Health

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May 27, 2019, 10:47:15 PM5/27/19

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Actually, his OPS is improved. Big improvement in RBIS.

Bob4Health

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May 27, 2019, 10:50:37 PM5/27/19

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But then, we compare Lagares offense with Rosario's
I had hoped the Lagares short period of hitting .300s last year was hopeful,
but, we see what we have now.

ruben safir

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May 27, 2019, 11:05:03 PM5/27/19

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On 5/27/19 10:47 PM, Bob4Health wrote:
> Actually, his OPS is improved. Big improvement in RBIS.

no it hasn't improved and I don't care about his RBIs. I do care that
is is a huge hole at SS defensively with zero range

ruben safir

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May 27, 2019, 11:06:03 PM5/27/19

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On 5/27/19 10:50 PM, Bob4Health wrote:
> But then, we compare Lagares offense with Rosario's
> I had hoped the Lagares short period of hitting .300s last year was hopeful,
> but, we see what we have now.

the way Rosario plays SS you might as well have Lagares play SS and CF
at the same time..

Bob4Health

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May 28, 2019, 8:55:26 AM5/28/19

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I was talking about his offense, which has improved.

While a talented athlete, Rosario has been given any opportunity to play short and it hasn't worked.

I suspect his skill set would do better in CF, great speed, athletic ability, good arm, but it wouldn't requires soft hands.

He hits significantly better that Lagares at this point of the campaign, and Lagares isn't hitting. He's hitting around .200

So, I'd throw Rosario out there, and put a solid defensive SS.

I'd much rather have a great defensive SS that can't hit that a
CF that can't hit.

ruben safir

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May 28, 2019, 10:34:10 AM5/28/19

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On 5/28/19 8:55 AM, Bob4Health wrote:
> I was talking about his offense, which has improved.

his offense has not improved. I'm sorry... look at the numbers. His
OBP is stead, as is he slugging and even his Average

017 21 NYM NL 46 170 165 16 41 4 4 4 10 7 3 3 49 .248 .271 .394 .665 76
65 3 2 0 0 0 6
2018 22 NYM NL 154 592 554 76 142 26 8 9 51 24 11 29 119 .256 .295 .381
.676 89 211 9 3 3 3 4 *6
2019 23 NYM NL 50 211 199 19 51 9 3 5 27 4 2 12 54 .256 .299 .407 .706
93 81 5 0 0 0 1 *6

this is not improving

Hass

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May 28, 2019, 11:31:18 AM5/28/19

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Again, troll elect to ignore facts. OPS+ has gone up each sesaon...76 / 89 / 93. That's called improvement. His hard-contact rate is higher each year (24.1 / 27.7 / 33.0). That's improvement. His BABIP is up 19 points over 2018. That's improvement. His wRC+ is up each season...75 / 85 / 90. That's improvement. SLG is up .26 from 2018...that's improvement.

Bob4Health

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May 28, 2019, 4:34:55 PM5/28/19

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I can't read that unformatted mess, but both his OBP and OPS are up,
and he is hitting with significantly more power and driving in far more runs. He's been getting clutch base hits.

That's an improvement. Producing runs is good.

The comparison was to Lagares, where he is hitting 100 points better.

ruben safir

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May 28, 2019, 6:06:46 PM5/28/19

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On 5/28/19 4:34 PM, Bob4Health wrote:
> OBP and OPS are up,

they are rock solid dead in the water

ruben safir

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May 28, 2019, 6:11:53 PM5/28/19

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On 5/28/19 4:34 PM, Bob4Health wrote:

> he is hitting with significantly more power

no he is NOT - going from a 394 to a 407 slugging percentage is not
improving power

ruben safir

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May 28, 2019, 6:13:12 PM5/28/19

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On 5/28/19 4:34 PM, Bob4Health wrote:

> The comparison was to Lagares

Lagares can play SS better than Rosario and for sure can play CF better
than him as well.

Hass

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May 28, 2019, 7:15:40 PM5/28/19

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Another silly troll...Lagares rocks an 84 lifetime OPS+...has never slugged over .390 and has never played an inning at shortstop. Rosario is better at every important measurement and is 7 years younger. Lagares makes some nice defensive plays, but one can't ride the coattails of his single 2.4 dWar in 2014. In fact, he's negative this yearin 47 games, but hey, let's not bring facts into it. Lagares playing shortstop is silly. Alonso playing 3rd is silly. You want to criticize BVW, feel free, but at least use facts.

ruben safir

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Jun 9, 2019, 3:41:02 AM6/9/19

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On 5/28/19 4:34 PM, Bob4Health wrote:

AVE OBP SLUG OPS OPS+
.248 .271 .394 .665 76 2017
.256 .295 .381 .676 89 2018
.256 .299 .407 .706 93 2019

That is stagnant... Should we work out the Confident coeficeants and P
values and run this through a statistical analysis with real statastics
in R programming to prove the obvious, that his is pures statistical
stagnation with variation due to statistical noise...

and his Range Factor is not ML ready and his fielding % is not major
league ready...

He is just not a major league player..

Say what you want about him being 23 years old, he is not playing ML
ball as SS and certainly not for a team that is trying to win something.

Throwing him into CF is laughable... HE CAN NOT HIT

Bob4Health

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Jun 11, 2019, 7:39:10 AM6/11/19

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The flaw in your argument is that he has been producing runs, on a team that is not producing runs. His RBI total is 3rd on the team Runs 4.

The thing that has changed in he's hitting with some power. He's never hit more than 9 home runs and has 8 home runs. That is not noise, that more than double the power.

He has hands of stone, but if he continues to produce runs, they should try in the center. Lots of players have made that transition with great success.

People put me down when I kept saying they should throw Smith, and his .350
plus average into left. It hasn't cost the Mets a run, and he's still hitting great.

I know statistics.

ruben safir

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Jun 11, 2019, 8:41:11 PM6/11/19

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On 6/11/19 7:39 AM, Bob4Health wrote:
> The flaw in your argument is that he has been producing runs

there is no flaw in this case. He is not producing anything.

ruben safir

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Jun 11, 2019, 8:42:37 PM6/11/19

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On 6/11/19 7:39 AM, Bob4Health wrote:

> The thing that has changed in he's hitting with some power. He's never hit more than 9 home runs and has 8 home runs. That is not noise, that more than double the power.

that is also just wrong. slugging from 676 to 706 is almost
meaningless, especially over 40 games

Bob4Health

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Jun 11, 2019, 10:06:53 PM6/11/19

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No, he's doubling his home run output, as well as RBIs. Home Runs Good.

That said, his defense at short, is horrendous. He looks athletic, but he simply doesn't have soft hands and doesn't seem to have the instincts to play shortstop. I'd like to see what he could do in CF. Other SSs have done much better after being moved. He has outstanding speed.

This is a list of players that changed postions, and it worked out great. Most of them were short stops.

https://www.boston.com/sports/untagged/2013/05/29/players_at_other_positions

ruben safir

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Jun 11, 2019, 11:33:06 PM6/11/19

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On 6/11/19 10:06 PM, Bob4Health wrote:
> No, he's doubling his home run output, as well as RBIs. Home Runs Good.

outs bad

ruben safir

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Jun 11, 2019, 11:33:53 PM6/11/19

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On 6/11/19 10:06 PM, Bob4Health wrote:

> I'd like to see what he could do in CF.

not if he doesn't hit. Can he catch?

Ruben Safir

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Jul 15, 2019, 3:25:25 PM7/15/19

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Since Rosario is in the news let me just not that since this thread when
supposedly rosario was improving that his bat still is AA (not AAA)

BA .265 OBP .303 Slug .418 OPS+92

He wouldn't even be playing in 1968 with these numbers

Hass

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Jul 20, 2019, 11:18:06 AM7/20/19

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Fun fact: Wilmer Flores career OPS+ is 98. Ahmed Rosario OPS+ for 2019 is 98. Though let's never let facts into a situation...

Hass

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Jul 22, 2019, 8:58:58 PM7/22/19

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Update to our fun fact...Rosario OPS+ now at 101.

tmp

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Jul 23, 2019, 2:47:00 PM7/23/19

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There's definitely some good signs. Right now he's slugging .444 and projects to 31 doubles, 18 HR, and 75 RBI for the season. That's not nothing, and well above his first 2 seasons, if it holds.

He's streaky though. Time will tell.

ruben safir

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Jul 23, 2019, 9:51:58 PM7/23/19

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On 7/23/19 2:46 PM, tmp wrote:
> That's not nothing, and well above his first 2 seasons, if it holds.

check that again??? Please remember the ball is jacked..and he can't catch.

He doesn't belong in the Major Leagues and definitely NOT a starter.

ruben safir

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Jul 23, 2019, 9:54:12 PM7/23/19

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TNAL9lAXJYo

Hass

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Jul 23, 2019, 9:59:17 PM7/23/19

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So please elaborate on what OPS+ DOES belong in the majors. You can make silly blanket statements all you want, but as Mr. Adams eloquently stated, "facts are stubborn things".

Hass

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Jul 23, 2019, 10:01:07 PM7/23/19

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Again, an irrelevant troll...there are highlight reels of virtually every defensive "wizard" for the last 30 years. What's your point? That there are shortstops better defensively? OF COURSE there are. That's like saying David Wright sucked because of a Mike Schmidt highlight reel.

tmp

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Jul 23, 2019, 11:43:58 PM7/23/19

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On Tuesday, July 23, 2019 at 9:51:58 PM UTC-4, ruben safir wrote:
> On 7/23/19 2:46 PM, tmp wrote:
> > That's not nothing, and well above his first 2 seasons, if it holds.
>
>
> check that again??? Please remember the ball is jacked

That's largely accounted for by the OPS+ stat (it's relative to the rest of the league), which is also up from his first 2 seasons.

> ..and he can't catch.

I was only talking about his hitting. I don't claim his fielding has improved at all.