Popularity/Participation of Bowling
PHORVICK
decline of bowling. Theories abound, with most placing a correlation between
the explosion in scoring, the loss of perceived integrity, as the culprit. I
remain unconvinced that one can make that leap anymore than you can claim that
drinking milk leads to a life of crime.
I would suggest that another and equally large factor is financial...the cost
of equipment to compete, but more importantly, the cost of lineage to practice
and participate in leagues.
When I first started doing a lot of practice, minimum wage was $1.25 and our
local center charged 35cents a game for adults and 25cents for youth. My first
junior league fees were $1.25, and my first adult league fees were $2.50. A
new ball was at most $25.
At that time, I practiced a great deal. It was cheap...it was also necessary to
practice to improve. For about 1/4 of my hourly minimum wage, I could practice
3 games. Today, inexpensive centers are in the $2/game range, and those in
more metropolitan areas are in the $3-$4 a game range. Although the "adjusted
for inflation" rates might suggest that in those low priced centers it is close
to the same, in the newer or larger city centers, you are looking at closer to
1.25 to 1.5 games per one hour of minimum wage; i.e., it is becoming more and
more difficult to afford to practice, even if you really wanted to.
Now, forgetting for a moment that it is much easier today to improve your
strike carry with equipment, your average Joe or Jane Bowler sees even the
least competitive among their peers carrying 2 or more balls, often at
$150-$250 per ball, plus the cost of practice. This is not conducive to
increasing the drive to practice and more fully participate.
I agree that in the main, for the higher average players, let's be arbitrary
and say an average pre-resin of 175+, that it indeed easier to score and stay
motivated; after all, we all want to get good scores when we bowl. But, for the
vast majority of players, the cost to become competitive..lineage for practice,
new equipment and the like, creates a mindset that although it may still be fun
to do, the sport aspect is lessening...the desire to improve, even if there, is
kept in check due to costs.
It is not just bowling...everything is more expensive...if you have kids, you
get eaten alive with costs for school; according to the current car issue of
Consumer Reports, the average new car cost is over $20,000; housing is out of
sight. All of our expenses have greatly increased, forcing families in many
cases to have two wage earners instead of one. The thought of going out to
practice 6 games, a few times a week...well, I don't have enough left over
money to justify spending $35 (at $3/game) a week for that luxury.
I think an awfully good argument can be made for blaming the cost of being
competitive as another of the often unmentioned reasons that bowling is
declining.
Keep it on the lane...
Paul Horvick
Youth/Collegiate writer, BTM
The Davidsons
PHORVICK <phor...@aol.comspamfree> wrote in message
news:20010311081412...@ng-fi1.aol.com...
Minimum wage has not kept up with inflation... you may be better to compare
the average wage to the lineage charged...
I drive a truck and can bowl 6 games for one hours work at my center....a
nice new 32-lane house(Brunswick Anvil) in Cornwall, Ont. You can even buy
a yearly membership for $750 and bowl free for a year...(league and
tournement lineage not included) Quite a deal... don't you think?
6 games a week at $3 x 52 week.... is $1000 with tax
Compare that to the cost of a golf membership....!!! or even an occasional
green fee! and yet golf continues to grow.
I think that potential 'new' bowlers have a bad (and incorrect) image of
bowling...smoke filled centers, loud beer drinking bowlers, etc. (not that
I know any!)
When 'Jane and Joe Parents' decide that little 'Betty' or 'Archie' need to
take up a sport... they will push towards the 'high glamour' tennis or
golf.... These sports have marketed themselves much better than
bowling...the kids are flocking elsewhere... and therein lies the problem.
Michael
When people ask if I've ever been to New York City, I calmly reply... "I'm
in 'Brooklyn' 2 or 3 times a week!"
Smokey
> take up a sport... they will push towards the 'high glamour' tennis or
> golf.... These sports have marketed themselves much better than
> bowling...the kids are flocking elsewhere... and therein lies the problem.
AMEN, BROTHER! you've hit the nail square on the head. :)
I agree: the "mainstream" sports (football, baseball, etc.) do indeed
get more "play" in the media. However, all those sports require some
sort of ATHLETIC ABILITY (speed, strength, etc.). Bowling, OTOH, is
primarily an "eye-hand coordination" endeavor like curling and its'
kin. Because there isn't so much "strength" displayed, it's assumed
it's "boring" or a "lazy man's sport". Finally, the "beer joint" image
has ALWAYS been there. For some people, having a few brews actually
IMPROVES their game (i.e. relaxants). Then there's the SMOKING -
bowling centers are probably THE LAST "safe haven" for smokers. With
the hysteria from "anti-smoking Nazis" and similar intolerant types,
small reason kids (and adults) that might have a "future" in bowling
(i.e. natural talent, etc.) never discover it due to the hysteria
surrounding smoking.
I personally HATE smoking (grew up with it), but I'm not so selfish and
intolerant as to tell others "DON'T YOU DARE SMOKE AROUND ME!!!" I
tolerate the smoke and discomfort then I go home, take a shower (if
necessary) and change my clothes. No harm done! :)
> When people ask if I've ever been to New York City, I calmly reply... "I'm
> in 'Brooklyn' 2 or 3 times a week!"
Please answer this ignorant question: what does "Brooklyn" mean in
bowling????
Ken
The Davidsons
Smokey <clo...@mybizrate.com> wrote in message
news:3AABF13E...@mybizrate.com...
There are no ignorant questions...
For right handers, like myself, when we cross over
and hit the 1-2 pocket we refer to it as going
Brooklyn.
Michael
Your American Hero
>
>> Please answer this ignorant question: what does
>"Brooklyn" mean in
>> bowling????
>>
>> Ken
>
>There are no ignorant questions...
>
>For right handers, like myself, when we cross over
>and hit the 1-2 pocket we refer to it as going
>Brooklyn.
>
>Michael
>
Michael, do you think it would be possible to not quote the entire post if the
only part you are replying to is just a one line unrelated question at the end?
It makes it easier on us to figure out what the post is about if you don't
quote irrelevant text
Thanks
JP
This is not a signature...it's true...it's true
CM2014
read the post. My high school season just ended, and I'm looking forward to
actually having extra money for the first time in four months. Now I will give
the benefit of the doubt that I am just a kid who for the time being only has
to worry about finance for a few things, but if you will think back to when you
all were 17, you'll understand.
Like a lot of kids I know, and like all my friends, I have a part time job.
Depending on how many hours they have me work that week, I make from as little
as around $20 to around $60 per week after taxes. During the bowling season,
there's high school practice twice a week, and junior leagues on saturdays.
The local bowling center here is pretty cheap, $1.35 per game, $4.05 per
series, 3 series a week, that's $12 a week. Plus there usually is additional
practice and other things such as sodas for example, so it's upwards of $20 a
week. And so on....$75-80 a month, four months in the season, over $300 a
season. And that's without getting any new equipment. I got a new ball at
$160, and a double ball bag for $40. That makes for a grand total of roughly
$500-520 this year. And that was just money for bowling, never mind other
expenses.....
CJ, whose car hasn't seen a full tank of gas since Thanksgiving.
Smokey
> and hit the 1-2 pocket we refer to it as going
> Brooklyn.
Thank you for the reply and clear answer. :)
Ken
David Williamson
bowling????
Its the 1-2 pocket for a right handed bowler.
L A
> bowling centers are probably THE LAST "safe haven" for smokers. With
> the hysteria from "anti-smoking Nazis" and similar intolerant types,
> small reason kids (and adults) that might have a "future" in bowling
> (i.e. natural talent, etc.) never discover it due to the hysteria
> surrounding smoking.
>
> I personally HATE smoking (grew up with it), but I'm not so selfish and
> intolerant as to tell others "DON'T YOU DARE SMOKE AROUND ME!!!" I
> tolerate the smoke and discomfort then I go home, take a shower (if
> necessary) and change my clothes. No harm done! :)
No harm done??? Poor misguided soul. My smoke in your hair, clothes and in
your body is the same as my car on you or my fist in your face.
Bowling establishments generally have not installed the "smoke-eating"
technology or attempted to segregate the smoking activity as other
entertainment venues. There are positions between smoke-free and smoke
filled, bowling has decided to stay in the "50's in this regard.
> Please answer this ignorant question: what does "Brooklyn" mean in
bowling???? Ken
Hitting the pocket on the opposite side (1-2 for righthanders, 1-3 for
lefties).
LA
mean...@pacbell.net
wrote:
No smoking in California bowling centers/alleys.
Smokey
You poor, deprived soul, you.... ;>
Ken
Dave Kent
> > Please answer this ignorant question: what does "Brooklyn" mean in
> bowling???? Ken
>
> Hitting the pocket on the opposite side (1-2 for righthanders, 1-3 for
> lefties).
> LA
Someone else can correct me, but I though a cross over by a lefty was on the
"Joisy" side.
--
... if you expect bad things to happen, they almost always will.
-- Palmer Fallgren
Smokey
> wrong. If you can't have a discussion without being insulting, there's not
> much to talk about, now is there?
I am a generally reasonable person. However, when it comes to economics
and "business bashing", explicit or implied, I kind of "go ballistic".
The reason is far too many in this country are TOTALLY ILLITERATE where
economics are concerned, preferring to accept "class envy" and similar
nonsense promulgated by the Democrats and their sycophantic Media
allies.
I don't apologize for my post and I'm sorry you took it the "wrong way".
Ken
Smokey
> bad latte at Starbucks or not having a smoke in a while.
Don't do Lattes and don't smoke. However, I do work nights and get home
pretty late. ;)
Besides, SOMEONE has to occasionally give "Bob the Troll" a break,
right? ;>
Ken
EldredP
Bumb" <Bowli...@nospam.com> writes:
>
>Also, league bowlers only pay $1.00 per game in my center and bowling is
>free on Tuesday's. I don't think this is cost prohibited. Equipment is not
>that all expensive either if you're a smart shopper. All proshops have last
>years balls at half the cost, shoes can be bought for $20.00 and a bag is
>about $18.00. So for around $100.00 you can get high-end gear (well maybe
>not high-end shoes).
$1 per game, and free on Tuesdays? Nice. I don't know about your equipment
prices. I mean, sure you can get stuff cheap. But you can't get GOOD stuff
cheap. Linds and Dexter shoes are about $100 by themselves... I have to
admit I've never asked a proshop for prices on last years' balls... I'll have
to check that out.
>
>I think the real culprit is the apprehension of new bolwers to be able to
>compete on a league. People don't like to do what they can't do reasonably
>well. It's no fun to lose week after week, in a league, or to be frustrated
>with low scores. I think the solution is that bowling centers should have
>beginner leagues which give out equipment to all bowlers (perhpas you leave
>a deposit so you can have the equipment up front and if you quit the legue
>then your card is charges) and to give free group lessons once a week. This
>would allow new bowlers to aquire equipment cheaply (instead of a prize
>fund) and to learn basic skills so they can improve their game and become
>successful. I know seasoned league bowlers who have quit the league in a
>middle of a game becuase they bowled badly. Once joe bowlers tastes some
>success he'll be hooked and the sport will have gained a new patron for
>life.
>
Good idea(s).
>I also think that centers should have more off hours for open bowlers at
>reaonable rates. My center charges almost $5.00 a game for open bowling. I
>think it goes as low as $4.00 a game at off-hours. This is still too
>expensive for the average family. Bowling is a family sport and should be
>marketed accordingly. I'd also like to see more incentives at the lanes.
>$500.00 for an 800 game, $100.00 for a 300 game and more single competition.
>
I don't feel so bad about my bowling prices now. My Monday center charges
$2.25 per game, I think. League bowlers can bowl for $1.50 per game. The
centers couldn't pay those prizes for the honor scores. From the way people
talk, they'd be paying so much money per night they'd never survive. Of
course, they could change the shot to make honor scores tougher. I wonder how
that would go over. If you had two centers - one with an easy shot that you
could average 220+, and one where a 190 avg was good, but paid $100 for a 300,
which would you choose?
>Lots can be done to promote league bowling and bowling in general but
>centers have to think out of the box for this to happen. Many centers want
>to suck out profits and not put a dime back into their enterprises. I bowl
>at a relatively new center so I'm lucky. We have high ceilings, a smoking
>room and nice furniture. Most of the centers in my area are dumps. Low
>ceilings, smoking is allowed, the lanes are not maintained well and the
>center looks run down. Also, many of the nurseries are not child friendly.
It always amazes me that the owners don't put any money in the business, and
are puzzled as to why people leave. During the first half of our season, we
would have major breakdowns every week. Also, the facilities of the center
itself weren't kept clean enough. The president repeatedly asked the owner to
do better. It didn't help. The league members got fed up, and voted to change
houses next season. The owner got all pissed off - he couldn't understand why
we are leaving, it seems... That's too bad - I think he *used* to care about
his customers(I worked there for a while). He seems to have gotten bitter as
he's gotten older. I wish I could afford to buy him out. I *know* I could get
leagues back in there, keep customers happy, and STILL turn a profit.
>Perhaps a general fund should be setup and funded by league bowlers and
>centers to promote the sport and re-build older centers. Something needs to
>be done. As for TV bowling I'm not sure how you can make it exciting.
>Bowling doesn't have the ultra exciting moments like many other sports.
>There exists no grand slams, no non-hiiters, no 100 yard runs, etc.
>
Agreed. It's just the nature of the sport. There's nothing we can do there...
:(
Eldred
--
Dale Earnhardt, Sr. R.I.P. 1951-2001
Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett
F1 hcp. +28.67...F2 +151.26...
Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you
with experience...
Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.
Smokey
Hate to correct you, but the Dexter "Rocky" (men's) and "Andrea"
(women's) are VERY GOOD shoes, and only cost $30. I know - I have a
pair of "Rockys" and my wife has "Andreas". :) For a "beginner",
they're great bargains....
Before you respond about "cheap shoes", I do plan on getting a pair of
Linds or "higher end" Dexters when the "Rockys" wear out, and pay the
requisite higher price. Of course, it's tough for me anyway to find
shoes in EXTRA-WIDE widths to accommodate my HIGH INSTEPS. :)
Ken
Smokey
> that much to run a center? I've never done it, so the owner of my 'home'
> center just appears to be overcharging his customers. I mean, how many places
> charge you for WATER??? Sheesh...
Get one thing straight: Businesses ARE NOT "non-profit charitable
organizations"! businesses exist TO MAKE A PROFIT for the
owners/operators.
1) EVERYTHING is run by ELECTRICITY. Electrical costs are always
rising, especially on the LEFT COAST (thanks to environmental extremist
wackos). The center owners HAVE TO pay these costs to keep things
running.
2) MAINTENANCE EQUIPMENT for the lanes isn't cheap. Neither is the
regular maintenance for "everything else" (air conditioning, etc.).
3) LANE OIL ain't cheap. It's usually a PETROLEUM-BASED PRODUCT, and
thanks to environmental wacko policies, the REFINING COSTS for petroleum
are always GOING UP (never down!).
4) EQUIPMENT REPLACEMENT COSTS (new balls for damaged ones, new ball
return motors when the old one dies, new lane surface when the old one
gets damaged, etc.) are not cheap. Remember, the MANUFACTURERS of said
equipment ALSO HAVE THE SAME PROBLEMS (and more) listed here!
5) WAGES FOR THE EMPLOYEES. These jobs may be minimum wage or a bit
higher. "Minimum wage" keeps GOING UP - when those wages go up, the
cost has to be recouped SOMEWHERE!
6) LOCAL TAXES (property, business, etc.) are ALWAYS, ALWAYS RISING!
government officials are some of the GREEDIEST, MOST SELFISH, SPOILED
BRATS AROUND - look at all the hoopla from DEMOCRATS regarding the
concept of "having to do with less" due to tax rate reductions (lower
federal tax rate ALWAYS EQUALS ** LARGER "NET PAY" NUMBER ON YOUR
PAYCHECK! **).
7) ESCALATING GOVERNMENT REGULATIONS (OSHA, Hazardous Materials laws,
etc.) have corresponding RISING COSTS, TOO!
These are just a few of the things I can list. If you're so selfish and
greedy about "your bowling charges", I suggest you ask the Center Owner
if he'll show you ALL HIS EXPENSES/OUTLAYS/ETC. compared to what he
actually "takes in". For that matter, try (if you can) to relate it to
YOUR HOUSEHOLD BUDGET and how you always have to "scramble" when YOUR
utility rates RISE (without "your permission"), when GROCERY COSTS RISE
(without "your permission"), when TAXES RISE (without "your
permission"), etc., etc., etc.
I suggest you take a "business administration" course or two, or
interview a number of BUSINESS OWNERS/OPERATORS to see what they "have
to go through" just to keep their businesses going TO CATER TO YOUR
SELFISH NEEDS AND DESIRES. Maybe you'll "grow up" a little after that,
have a better appreciation for business/business owners, and realize
JUST HOW CHEAP things are compared to "the big picture".
I apologize for the off topic vent, but I just couldn't let you get away
with your mischaracterization and ignorance.
Ken
EldredP
phor...@aol.comspamfree (PHORVICK) writes:
>I think an awfully good argument can be made for blaming the cost of being
>competitive as another of the often unmentioned reasons that bowling is
>declining.
And I'm still trying to figur out why it costs so much. Does it REALLY cost
that much to run a center? I've never done it, so the owner of my 'home'
center just appears to be overcharging his customers. I mean, how many places
charge you for WATER??? Sheesh...
Eldred
Bill Newkirk
It's one way to try to discourage hanging out at the alleys...
------------------------------------------------
Bill Newkirk wnew...@iu.net
Amateur Radio Station WB9IVR
Melbourne, FL
"EldredP" <eld...@aol.comSPAM-OFF> wrote in message
news:20010315062652...@nso-fh.aol.com...
Dave Kent
> And I'm still trying to figur out why it costs so much. Does it REALLY cost
> that much to run a center? I've never done it, so the owner of my 'home'
> center just appears to be overcharging his customers. I mean, how many places
> charge you for WATER??? Sheesh...
>
> Eldred
Are you kidding, Eldred? Have you ever seen an Aquafina machine? How about walking
down the soft drink aisle at the grocery? There is significant shelf space
accorded to water in bottles. That wouldn't be happening if people weren't willing
to PAY for water. Presumably that stuff is either spring source or purified.
Charging for tap water should be enough to cover the cup and the ice, IMHO.
2/3 or 3/4 of the planet is water and people pay for it...amazing!
--
"The irony of Andy Warhol's statement is many of our
present day celebrities can't even fill the 15 minutes..."
--Dennis Miller
EldredP
writes:
>> And I'm still trying to figur out why it costs so much. Does it REALLY
>cost
>> that much to run a center? I've never done it, so the owner of my 'home'
>> center just appears to be overcharging his customers. I mean, how many
>places
>> charge you for WATER??? Sheesh...
>
>Get one thing straight: Businesses ARE NOT "non-profit charitable
>organizations"! businesses exist TO MAKE A PROFIT for the
>owners/operators.
>
Uh, did I ever say it WAS a "non-profit charitable organization"?!? Don't put
words in my mouth, man...
>1) EVERYTHING is run by ELECTRICITY. Electrical costs are always
>rising, especially on the LEFT COAST (thanks to environmental extremist
>wackos). The center owners HAVE TO pay these costs to keep things
>running.
>2) MAINTENANCE EQUIPMENT for the lanes isn't cheap. Neither is the
>regular maintenance for "everything else" (air conditioning, etc.).
>3) LANE OIL ain't cheap. It's usually a PETROLEUM-BASED PRODUCT, and
>thanks to environmental wacko policies, the REFINING COSTS for petroleum
>are always GOING UP (never down!).
>4) EQUIPMENT REPLACEMENT COSTS (new balls for damaged ones, new ball
>return motors when the old one dies, new lane surface when the old one
>gets damaged, etc.) are not cheap. Remember, the MANUFACTURERS of said
>equipment ALSO HAVE THE SAME PROBLEMS (and more) listed here!
>5) WAGES FOR THE EMPLOYEES. These jobs may be minimum wage or a bit
>higher. "Minimum wage" keeps GOING UP - when those wages go up, the
>cost has to be recouped SOMEWHERE!
>6) LOCAL TAXES (property, business, etc.) are ALWAYS, ALWAYS RISING!
>government officials are some of the GREEDIEST, MOST SELFISH, SPOILED
>BRATS AROUND - look at all the hoopla from DEMOCRATS regarding the
>concept of "having to do with less" due to tax rate reductions (lower
>federal tax rate ALWAYS EQUALS ** LARGER "NET PAY" NUMBER ON YOUR
>PAYCHECK! **).
>7) ESCALATING GOVERNMENT REGULATIONS (OSHA, Hazardous Materials laws,
>etc.) have corresponding RISING COSTS, TOO!
No shit? Wow, I thought he got all that stuff FREE...
>
>These are just a few of the things I can list. If you're so selfish and
>greedy about "your bowling charges", I suggest you ask the Center Owner
>if he'll show you ALL HIS EXPENSES/OUTLAYS/ETC. compared to what he
>actually "takes in". For that matter, try (if you can) to relate it to
>YOUR HOUSEHOLD BUDGET and how you always have to "scramble" when YOUR
>utility rates RISE (without "your permission"), when GROCERY COSTS RISE
>(without "your permission"), when TAXES RISE (without "your
>permission"), etc., etc., etc.
>
Funny, I don't have a problem with my budget - do you?
>I suggest you take a "business administration" course or two, or
>interview a number of BUSINESS OWNERS/OPERATORS to see what they "have
>to go through" just to keep their businesses going TO CATER TO YOUR
>SELFISH NEEDS AND DESIRES. Maybe you'll "grow up" a little after that,
>have a better appreciation for business/business owners, and realize
>JUST HOW CHEAP things are compared to "the big picture".
>
I mention ONE center out of all the ones I know of that charge you for water.
NONE of the others do. I also asked a serious question about how much it costs
to run a center. I admitted that I've never run a center, so it 'appeared'
that he was overcharging his customers. For this, I'm greedy and selfish?!?
Geez, what's YOUR issue? Did you just go bankrupt or something?
>I apologize for the off topic vent, but I just couldn't let you get away
>with your mischaracterization and ignorance.
I'll accept the 'ignorance' part - meaning I don't KNOW how much it costs to
run a center. Didn't I already SAY that? Try reading instead of ranting.
Mischaracterization? Hehe...that's funny... That would imply that I lied in
something I said about the center or the owner. Prove I did, and I'll buy you
a drink.
At one point, I actually thought you were a reasonable person. Guess I was
wrong. If you can't have a discussion without being insulting, there's not
much to talk about, now is there?
Eldred
Todd Mason
Smokey stomped and screamed:
> Get one thing straight: Businesses ARE NOT "non-profit charitable
> organizations"! businesses exist TO MAKE A PROFIT for the
> owners/operators.
<snip arms flailing and shouting>
> I apologize for the off topic vent, but I just couldn't let you get away
> with your mischaracterization and ignorance.
>
> Ken
Uhh, Ken, I'm going to chalk this post up to you either getting a hold of a
bad latte at Starbucks or not having a smoke in a while.
CTM
Bowling Bumb
the decline of bowlers in the sport. Bowling is actually an inexpensive
night out for a couple who bowl in a mixed league. In my center it costs
17.00 a week, in bowling fees each week, and child care is free. This
amounts to 34.00 for a night out. My babysitter charges us $5.00 an hour
for her services. By the time we leave for the alley and get home 4 hours
have expired. Our baby sitter would make $20.00 if we went to the movies
and dinner. Even if we skip dinner it still costs us $40.00-$50.00 for the
night out. And we get to sit on our butts and watch a screen. Bowling only
costs us $34.00 for a night out, we get to meet other couples and to
socialize while doing something physical.
Also, league bowlers only pay $1.00 per game in my center and bowling is
free on Tuesday's. I don't think this is cost prohibited. Equipment is not
that all expensive either if you're a smart shopper. All proshops have last
years balls at half the cost, shoes can be bought for $20.00 and a bag is
about $18.00. So for around $100.00 you can get high-end gear (well maybe
not high-end shoes).
I think the real culprit is the apprehension of new bolwers to be able to
compete on a league. People don't like to do what they can't do reasonably
well. It's no fun to lose week after week, in a league, or to be frustrated
with low scores. I think the solution is that bowling centers should have
beginner leagues which give out equipment to all bowlers (perhpas you leave
a deposit so you can have the equipment up front and if you quit the legue
then your card is charges) and to give free group lessons once a week. This
would allow new bowlers to aquire equipment cheaply (instead of a prize
fund) and to learn basic skills so they can improve their game and become
successful. I know seasoned league bowlers who have quit the league in a
middle of a game becuase they bowled badly. Once joe bowlers tastes some
success he'll be hooked and the sport will have gained a new patron for
life.
I also think that centers should have more off hours for open bowlers at
reaonable rates. My center charges almost $5.00 a game for open bowling. I
think it goes as low as $4.00 a game at off-hours. This is still too
expensive for the average family. Bowling is a family sport and should be
marketed accordingly. I'd also like to see more incentives at the lanes.
$500.00 for an 800 game, $100.00 for a 300 game and more single competition.
Lots can be done to promote league bowling and bowling in general but
centers have to think out of the box for this to happen. Many centers want
to suck out profits and not put a dime back into their enterprises. I bowl
at a relatively new center so I'm lucky. We have high ceilings, a smoking
room and nice furniture. Most of the centers in my area are dumps. Low
ceilings, smoking is allowed, the lanes are not maintained well and the
center looks run down. Also, many of the nurseries are not child friendly.
Perhaps a general fund should be setup and funded by league bowlers and
centers to promote the sport and re-build older centers. Something needs to
be done. As for TV bowling I'm not sure how you can make it exciting.
Bowling doesn't have the ultra exciting moments like many other sports.
There exists no grand slams, no non-hiiters, no 100 yard runs, etc.
"PHORVICK" <phor...@aol.comspamfree> wrote in message
news:20010311081412...@ng-fi1.aol.com...
Joe Nospam
(9:30) leagues, they offer FREE open bowling anytime for joining them. I
joined a 13 week at 9:30 one just for this. You cant beat 50 + games of
practice a week for free:) Open bowling here runs 2.50 weekdays and 3.00
weekends. It would cost me 150 buxs a week without joining that 12 buck a
week league for that amount of bowling.
Todd
"EldredP" <eld...@aol.comSPAM-OFF> wrote in message
news:20010317010557...@nso-cs.aol.com...
Tony Smith
this newsgroup about what was the most important purchase a bowler could
make and the result was nearly unanimous that a very good pair of shoes was
more important than any other bowling equipment. The reason for this is your
feet are the foundation of your approach and slide. Sticking too much or
sliding too much have a huge effect on your balance at the line and how well
you release the ball. Without a good solid, balanced approach your odds of
throwing a repeatably accurate shot go right out the window.
That said, not everyone can afford to shell out big bucks, or even want to,
especially when they are beginners. I agree, Ken, the Rockys (as well as
several other shoes from Dexter and Linds) are a good pair of entry level
shoes, however, if a beginning bowler went out and bought a pair of Rockys
and a $200+ state of the art reactive/particle ball, I would have to say
that that was a really poor decision on their part.
"Smokey" <clo...@mybizrate.com> wrote in message
news:3AB32089...@mybizrate.com...
Smokey
> several other shoes from Dexter and Linds) are a good pair of entry level
> shoes, however, if a beginning bowler went out and bought a pair of Rockys
> and a $200+ state of the art reactive/particle ball, I would have to say
> that that was a really poor decision on their part.
No argument from me. :)
My first ball was a $70 "Sport Tec" plastic. I got the "Rockys" a month
or so later. :)
Ken
EldredP
<tonyr...@w-link.net> writes:
>I have a mixed opinion on this one. Several years ago we had a discussion in
>this newsgroup about what was the most important purchase a bowler could
>make and the result was nearly unanimous that a very good pair of shoes was
>more important than any other bowling equipment. The reason for this is your
>feet are the foundation of your approach and slide. Sticking too much or
>sliding too much have a huge effect on your balance at the line and how well
>you release the ball. Without a good solid, balanced approach your odds of
>throwing a repeatably accurate shot go right out the window.
I'm having HUGE problems recently with sticking at the foul line. If I get a
piece of teflon to put on the sliding sole, two questions. 1) How drastic of a
difference would it make? 2) If I then end up sliding *too* much, am I
screwed? I'd hate to 'ruin' the only pair of shoes that I have...
Tony Smith
on, assuming that your shoes don't have interchangeable soles, it's on for
good!
Eldred, a bowler of your caliber should be puchasing a pair of shoes with
interchangeable soles if financially feasable.
"EldredP" <eld...@aol.comSPAM-OFF> wrote in message
news:20010318205152...@nso-fm.aol.com...
Jerry Weller
synthetics in dry weather...
I used a sock on the outside of my shoe once too -- thought I would kill
myself, but at least you can remove it LOL
I need a very high heel on the shoe to use the sock.
"EldredP" <eld...@aol.comSPAM-OFF> wrote in message
news:20010318205152...@nso-fm.aol.com...
EldredP
<dbkent.plea...@frontiernet.net> writes:
>EldredP wrote:
>
>> And I'm still trying to figur out why it costs so much. Does it REALLY
>cost
>> that much to run a center? I've never done it, so the owner of my 'home'
>> center just appears to be overcharging his customers. I mean, how many
>places
>> charge you for WATER??? Sheesh...
>>
>> Eldred
>
>Are you kidding, Eldred? Have you ever seen an Aquafina machine? How about
>walking
>down the soft drink aisle at the grocery? There is significant shelf space
>accorded to water in bottles. That wouldn't be happening if people weren't
>willing
>to PAY for water. Presumably that stuff is either spring source or purified.
>Charging for tap water should be enough to cover the cup and the ice, IMHO.
>
>2/3 or 3/4 of the planet is water and people pay for it...amazing!
No - I mean if you want a glass of ice water from the bar, you have to pay for
it... This is the only place I know of that does that.
EldredP
<tonyr...@w-link.net> writes:
>1) It could be really drastic, it's hard to say. 2) Yes, once that pad is
>on, assuming that your shoes don't have interchangeable soles, it's on for
>good!
>
>Eldred, a bowler of your caliber should be puchasing a pair of shoes with
>interchangeable soles if financially feasable.
Thanks for the compliment, Tony.
I've considered getting the shoes with interchangeable soles. Finances are a
big part of it. I also need to do some research on the best brands/models.
I've recently noticed that the approaches at my monday house tend not to slide
as much as my tuesday house. That may be contributing to my 12 pin difference
between the two houses. I feel more comfortable on the lanes tuesdays(except
last week<g>).
Dave Kent
> Dave Kent writes:
>
> >EldredP wrote:
> >
> >> And I'm still trying to figur out why it costs so much. Does it REALLY
> >>cost that much to run a center? I've never done it, so the owner of my
> 'home'
> >> center just appears to be overcharging his customers. I mean, how many
> >>places
> >> charge you for WATER??? Sheesh...
> >>
> >Are you kidding, Eldred? Have you ever seen an Aquafina machine? How about
> >walking down the soft drink aisle at the grocery? There is significant shelf
> space
> >accorded to water in bottles. That wouldn't be happening if people weren't
> >willing to PAY for water. Presumably that stuff is either spring source or
> purified.
> >Charging for tap water should be enough to cover the cup and the ice, IMHO.
> >
> >2/3 or 3/4 of the planet is water and people pay for it...amazing!
>
> No - I mean if you want a glass of ice water from the bar, you have to pay for
> it... This is the only place I know of that does that.
>
That DOES seem unreasonable. If the owner is trying collect a few shekels to keep
afloat, he's probably doing his business more harm than good that way - IMHO.
--
"No matter how great the talent, unless the individual is
personally disciplined much of the potential will remain
just that . . . potential.” Zig Ziglar
EldredP
<dbkent.plea...@frontiernet.net> writes:
>> No - I mean if you want a glass of ice water from the bar, you have to pay
>for
>> it... This is the only place I know of that does that.
>>
>
>That DOES seem unreasonable. If the owner is trying collect a few shekels to
>keep
>afloat, he's probably doing his business more harm than good that way - IMHO.
>
Thank you - some people think I'm being selfish for even *mentioning* this
anomaly. If everyone did it, I might not even think about it. The thing is, I
used to WORK at this center, so I *do* know a bit about it. I've also been a
treasurer of my league, so I can approximate how much he takes in per season.
The owner appeared to care about his customers before, now it appears he's
given up. :(
My main interest is how much does it REALLY cost to run a 22-lane center? I've
been interested in owning one - I think I could do a decent job, and keep the
customers happy. I can understand that there are many expenses involved. But,
is it actually possible for a center to make money WHILE satifying the
customer? Given the amount of centers that have closed around here(Detroit) in
the past 5 years, I'm not so sure...