Whose definition of God?
xfu...@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca
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References: <32fe4...@206.30.194.5> <33194D...@online-service.de> <33201D...@netvision.net.il> <3320b341...@news.orednet.org> <332530...@vma.bme.hu> <332575...@none.com> <robinrph-110...@208.140.4.57>
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Distribution:
Robin H. (robi...@win.bright.net) wrote:
: In article <332575...@none.com>, p...@none.com wrote:
: >
: > First off guys, I dont understand what this posting is doing in most
: > newsgroups, secondly, the wierd thing is that anyone who does not want
: > to be a part of God is according to christianity directly a
: > savage/heretic/barbarian, and will burn in hell eternity, and is legal
: > prey to kill. That just means oh... the majority of all the humans on
: > the planet.. very respectful religion this christianity no?
: >
: > If I had a dime I hear that I will burn in hell (amusing since I do not
: > believe in it..) for not being christian, I wouldnt be a millionare, but
: > atleast very rich.
: >
: > Hagd!
: >
: > /Anne
: No Anne, you've got it all wrong, there's nothing in the Bible that says
: that it's O.K. to kill anyone who's not a christian, in fact murder is-oh
: shall we say a pretty major sin? Nobody (not even God) will kill you for
: not believing in Christ, you've already done it to yourself.
: Peace,
: Robin
Hmm, well I would say that the Crusades were one HUGE sin on the church's
part too. No one can say it was "oh just a little mistake, a blemish on
the history" because it took place over centuries.
I'd dead now, because I am not a believer. This is kind of ironic from
you because you say that murder is wrong, yet you are proclaiming me as
dead. I don't think so, but you do. You think because I do not believe,
therefore I am dead. You made me dead in your mind. So YOU murdered
me. Not the least by contradictary is it?
There are lots of passages in the bible that tells you what to do with
homosexuals, and "heathens".
Sorry to break it to you, but you are the one that has got it all wrong.
PLUR, (Peace, love, unity, respect--the ravers motto, but of course, i
means nothing since I am a non believer right? hahahahh )
Avenging Angel
--
.o..o.
Shroom .6 o 6. The only thing that lasts forever
86 O 8 are memories and pain
aka `86o..od9'
Avenging Angel | |
Fudge Ee O | l l | |
| | | / \ || ||
||-|||----|--||\ |
Robin H.
In article <5gepf8$dic$2...@news.sas.ab.ca>, xfu...@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca
() wrote:
> Hmm, well I would say that the Crusades were one HUGE sin on the church's
> part too. No one can say it was "oh just a little mistake, a blemish on
> the history" because it took place over centuries.
>
> I'd dead now, because I am not a believer. This is kind of ironic from
> you because you say that murder is wrong, yet you are proclaiming me as
> dead. I don't think so, but you do. You think because I do not believe,
> therefore I am dead. You made me dead in your mind. So YOU murdered
> me. Not the least by contradictary is it?
>
> There are lots of passages in the bible that tells you what to do with
> homosexuals, and "heathens".
>
> Sorry to break it to you, but you are the one that has got it all wrong.
>
> PLUR, (Peace, love, unity, respect--the ravers motto, but of course, i
> means nothing since I am a non believer right? hahahahh
)
>
> Avenging Angel
First of all you snipped off a chunk of Anne's message, I was answering
the assertion that the bible teaches that it's O.K. to murder unbelievers.
It's wrong of you to snip and not say that you did.
Second, I apologize to anyone who got the impression from my post that I
was referring to a physical death, that is not what I meant. I meant that
if you have chosen not to follow Christ then you have chosen a spiritual
death for yourself. You are not a non-person, I have not "killed you in my
mind" , not has God "killed you in His mind". A good description would be
that you have "killed God in your mind", which is what I mean by a
spiritual death.
And yes, I truly wish you peace,
Robin
awhitlow
God does not allow the evils in the world to happen. WE ALLOW THEM TO
HAPPEN. God gave us free will. When we misuse that freedom, that is
when the evils of the Holocaust (yes, it did happen), the Crusades, and
all of the other evils that exist in our world. We are given a choice
between right and wrong. All of the wrongs seemed to get remembered and
the goods (there are a lot of them) are overlooked and even forgotten.
What then??
Peace.
--
"This is the great danger America faces: that
it will cease to be one nation and become instead
a collection of interests groups.... If that
happens,who then will speak for America."
Barbara Jordan @ 1976 Dem. Convention
---------------------------------------------
___ ___________
/ \ _ / _______Anthony G. Whitlow II
/ / \( )/ _____University of Notre Dame
////// ' V ` _____ Class of 1997
// / /`. .'__ Government & History
// /^\ awhi...@copper.helios.nd.edu
====UU=UU==== http://www.nd.edu/~awhitlow
" NaughtyOne
Robin Miller
<buncha crap removed>
: was referring to a physical death, that is not what I meant. I meant that
: if you have chosen not to follow Christ then you have chosen a spiritual
: death for yourself. You are not a non-person, I have not "killed you in my
: mind" , not has God "killed you in His mind". A good description would be
: that you have "killed God in your mind", which is what I mean by a
: spiritual death.
: And yes, I truly wish you peace,
: Robin
So let me get this straight: Anyone who doesn't follow your particular
brand of voodoo, which I assume to be some sort of "We deserve the rights
of Jews but ain't got to put up with the downside of Judaism" cult, we are
killing God in our minds, or we're spiritually dead, or some such.
Whatever floats your boat, I guess, as long as you don't try to push that
sort of crap in public schools, or go back to the old Christer thing of
killing everyone who doesn't buy into your brand of superstition.
Robin
(thinking about evangalizing more; Primal Judiasm is ready to RETURN!)
ΗξΔΌΡ絤ά
awhitlow <awhi...@copper.helios.nd.edu> Thee expoused the following
stuff:
>SAITH>God does not allow the evils in the world to happen. WE ALLOW THEM TO
>SAITH>HAPPEN. God gave us free will.
==========================================================================
I'm sick of this 'free will' crap.
Did god give us the choice to not die of disease?
Did god give plane crash victims (or other folly of man) the choice to
not get killed?
Did god give natural disaster victims (acts of god) the choice to not
experience it?
Did god give the holocaust victims, the 1.5 million slaughtered under
Pol Pot, the victims of the crusades, any evil regime, serial killers,
hell any victims of man's injustice, did he give them the choice to
not be?
Did god ask if I even wanted to be born?
Does god give me the choice to live forever? (No lame heaven
garantees, please!)
Does god give lonely people the choice to be out going and
extroverted?
Does god give accident victims like Christopher Reeve the choice to go
back and change the circumstances that cause the accident?
Does god give mentally ill people or babies with birth defects the
choice to be born normal?
The answer to all these questions is NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Seems god doesn't really care about his human creation at all!
Fact is, he's laughing at us right now! The bible tells me so, not in
so many words, (it's not truthful enough), but it does tell me this!
Of course, this is all for sake of arguement. gods don't exist, and
there is no religion, only indecision.
Teik Bane
All religion is garbage and should be forsaken by it's practitioners.
Chantel
xfu...@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca wrote in article
<5gepf8$dic$2...@news.sas.ab.ca>...
>
>
>
>
:vegas,alt.vampyres,alt.visa.us,alt.war,alt.zines,asia.ads,cit.jobs,chv.gene
ral,conn.jobs.offered,dod.jobs,doe.news.groups,general,his.general,
> Followup-To:
>
alt.magic,alt.meditation,alt.mis,alt.non.sequitur,alt.paranormal,alt.postmod
ern,alt.self-improve,alt.smokers,alt.startrek,alt.supermodels,alt.surfing,al
t.tasteless,alt.transgendered,alt.ufo.reports,alt.vacation.las
>
>
>
:-vegas,alt.vampyres,alt.visa.us,alt.war,alt.zines,asia.ads,cit.jobs,chv.gen
> Hmm, well I would say that the Crusades were one HUGE sin on the church's
> part too. No one can say it was "oh just a little mistake, a blemish on
> the history" because it took place over centuries.
>
> I'd dead now, because I am not a believer. This is kind of ironic from
> you because you say that murder is wrong, yet you are proclaiming me as
> dead. I don't think so, but you do. You think because I do not believe,
> therefore I am dead. You made me dead in your mind. So YOU murdered
> me. Not the least by contradictary is it?
>
> There are lots of passages in the bible that tells you what to do with
> homosexuals, and "heathens".
>
> Sorry to break it to you, but you are the one that has got it all wrong.
>
> PLUR, (Peace, love, unity, respect--the ravers motto, but of course, i
> means nothing since I am a non believer right? hahahahh )
>
> Avenging Angel
> --
>
> .o..o.
> Shroom .6 o 6. The only thing that lasts forever
> 86 O 8 are memories and pain
> aka `86o..od9'
> Avenging Angel | |
> Fudge Ee O | l l | |
> | | | / \ || ||
> ||-|||----|--||\ |
>
>
Hey Avenging Angel, you are not making any sense......... and besides
this is a MAGIC conference.......if you know any good tricks tell us but
otherwise please discuss this elsewhere because we magicians don't want to
be disturbed having to listen to all the rest of the world's problems. We
have a problem of our own: what to do with Herb Becker. If you've got any
advice tell us please!]
cya
"We was tryin' to sell our car about a year ago. A guy comes over, drives
the car around about 45 minutes. He gets out of the car, reaches down, and
GRABS the exhaust pipe, says,
"Dang that's hot!"
See? If he'd been wearin' a sign, I couldda' stopped him."
-Bill Engvall
Jay Port
As a practicing Christian magician, I completely disagree with you. But
you'll find out sometime within the next 100 years (unless you live
longer than that).
In Christ,
Jay Port
shadow kreep
<HTML><BODY>
ÇîļÑçµ¤Ü wrote:
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE>awhitlow <awhi...@copper.helios.nd.edu> Thee
expoused the following
<BR>stuff:
<BR>
<BR><I>>SAITH>God does not allow the evils in the world to happen.
WE ALLOW THEM TO</I>
<BR><I>>SAITH>HAPPEN. God gave us free will.</I>
<BR>==========================================================================
<BR>I'm sick of this 'free will' crap.
<BR>
<BR>Did god give us the choice to not die of disease?
<BR>Did god give plane crash victims (or other folly of man) the choice to
<BR>not get killed?
<BR>Did god give natural disaster victims (acts of god) the choice to not
<BR>experience it?
<BR>Did god give the holocaust victims, the 1.5 million slaughtered under
<BR>Pol Pot, the victims of the crusades, any evil regime, serial killers,
<BR>hell any victims of man's injustice, did he give them the choice to
<BR>not be?
<BR>Did god ask if I even wanted to be born?
<BR>Does god give me the choice to live forever? (No lame heaven
<BR>garantees, please!)
<BR>Does god give lonely people the choice to be out going and
<BR>extroverted?
<BR>Does god give accident victims like Christopher Reeve the choice to go
<BR>back and change the circumstances that cause the accident?
<BR>Does god give mentally ill people or babies with birth defects the
<BR>choice to be born normal?
<BR>
<BR>The answer to all these questions is NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
<BR>
<BR>Seems god doesn't really care about his human creation at all!
<BR> Fact is, he's laughing at us right now! The bible tells me so, not
in
<BR>so many words, (it's not truthful enough), but it does tell me this!
<BR>
<BR>Of course, this is all for sake of arguement. gods don't exist, and
<BR>there is no religion, only indecision.
<BR>
<BR>Teik Bane
<BR>
<BR>All religion is garbage and should be forsaken by it's practitioners.
</BLOCKQUOTE>
perhaps you should check out the church of satan. it believes
that
<BR>we're each our own god and devil and we have .... well check it out.
<BR>i'm sure you can find a link on the dark side of the web.
<BR>
<BR>the shadow kreep
<BR>
</BODY>
</HTML>
Lurking With Intent To Loiter
>I'm sick of this 'free will' crap.
>Did god give us the choice to not die of disease?
Yes. You can choose to die by jumping in front of a speeding train.
(Actually, we have disease BECAUSE of free will... 'way back in the
Adam and Eve days.)
>Did god give plane crash victims (or other folly of man) the choice to
>not get killed?
Yes. They didn't have to get on that plane.
>Did god give natural disaster victims (acts of god) the choice to not
>experience it?
Yes. They could have been somewhere else. (Or, they could have chosen
to jump in front of a speeding train.)
>Did god give the holocaust victims, the 1.5 million slaughtered under
>Pol Pot, the victims of the crusades, any evil regime, serial killers,
>hell any victims of man's injustice, did he give them the choice to
>not be?
They are all victims of circumstance (or "chance"). Change the
circumstances, and the outcome changes. (If there are no speeding
trains handy, there's always the nearby cliff.)
>Did god ask if I even wanted to be born?
Are you sure He *DID NOT* ask?
>Does god give me the choice to live forever? (No lame heaven
>garantees, please!)
Yep. But, it's painfully obvious that you don't comprehend what "free
will" means.
>Does god give lonely people the choice to be out going and
>extroverted?
Absolutely. I've seen this change in a number of people, myself
included.
>Does god give accident victims like Christopher Reeve the choice to go
>back and change the circumstances that cause the accident?
>Does god give mentally ill people or babies with birth defects the
>choice to be born normal?
Now you are getting silly. Free will isn't a guarantee that there will
be no suffering. Free will means that if there is a choice to be made,
YOU get to make it. Not instinct. Not some pre-guided script. By
having the ability to make mistakes, we have the ability to learn from
those mistakes. If you exercise your free will and make a choice that
causes you to suffer, then when that same choice comes up, you'll know
(hopefully) how to NOT make that choice.
>The answer to all these questions is NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Only to someone with a closed mind.
>Seems god doesn't really care about his human creation at all!
> Fact is, he's laughing at us right now! The bible tells me so, not in
>so many words, (it's not truthful enough), but it does tell me this!
Uh, where? (Chapter and verse, please.)
>Of course, this is all for sake of arguement. gods don't exist, and
>there is no religion, only indecision.
>All religion is garbage and should be forsaken by it's practitioners.
In the end, you have your choice, and I have mine. If you're right,
then neither of us will care, as we will have ceased to exist. If I'm
right, however, you'll be regretting it for a *LONG* time.
(Flames ignored; I refused to participate in a battle of wits with
unarmed people.)
Joan Tine
ΗξΔΌΡηµ¤ά (1@2.3) wrote:
: I'm sick of this 'free will' crap.
: Did god give us the choice to not die of disease?
: Did god give plane crash victims (or other folly of man) the choice to
: not get killed?
: Did god give natural disaster victims (acts of god) the choice to not
: experience it?
: Did god give the holocaust victims, the 1.5 million slaughtered under
: Pol Pot, the victims of the crusades, any evil regime, serial killers,
: hell any victims of man's injustice, did he give them the choice to
: not be?
: Did god ask if I even wanted to be born?
: Does god give me the choice to live forever? (No lame heaven
: garantees, please!)
: Does god give lonely people the choice to be out going and
: extroverted?
: Does god give accident victims like Christopher Reeve the choice to go
: back and change the circumstances that cause the accident?
: Does god give mentally ill people or babies with birth defects the
: choice to be born normal?
: The answer to all these questions is NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
: Seems god doesn't really care about his human creation at all!
: Fact is, he's laughing at us right now! The bible tells me so, not in
: so many words, (it's not truthful enough), but it does tell me this!
: Of course, this is all for sake of arguement. gods don't exist, and
: there is no religion, only indecision.
: Teik Bane
: All religion is garbage and should be forsaken by it's practitioners.
You have a mind which is, as you demonstrate, too small to hold the
concept of RANDOMNESS: the engine which drives this world, at least,
from the viewpoint of any hypothetical Creator. Otherwise, you would
realize that no world which operated in any way _other_ than the one
we observe would be _worth_ creating. It would be a bore.
I'm really sorry that creation doesn't spend all its time kissing your
highly put out little tush, but that too would be boring.
The issue of whether or not God exists isn't worth debating, since in
only a short time we will know. The issue of whether or not we have
the imagination necessary to put ourselves in the shoes of a Creator
is of slightly greater moment, since it says so much about us.
Well, some of us.
Oh, and stop whining. You don't believe there is a God to hear you,
so pissing and moaning, by you, is engaging in a logical
contradiction, and there is nothing more repellant to the senses than
an athiest who demands that others make a leap of faith.
Joan
--
=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=
Wombat! Transexual Menace! Vicus Lusorum! Curry! Request public key.
Theoni Srith Nanklaren/Bubblegum Crisis/Rollerblade Macro EQ/Stego
Quare tristis es anima mea, et quare conturbas me?
Robert Legault
jo...@snugbug.cts.com (Joan Tine) wrote:
>ΗξΔΌΡηµ¤ά (1@2.3) wrote:
>: I'm sick of this 'free will' crap.
>: Did god give us the choice to not die of disease?
>: Did god give plane crash victims (or other folly of man) the choice to
>: not get killed?
>: Did god give natural disaster victims (acts of god) the choice to not
>: experience it?
>: Did god give the holocaust victims, the 1.5 million slaughtered under
>: Pol Pot, the victims of the crusades, any evil regime, serial killers,
>: hell any victims of man's injustice, did he give them the choice to
>: not be?
>: Did god ask if I even wanted to be born?
>: Does god give me the choice to live forever? (No lame heaven
>: garantees, please!)
>: Does god give lonely people the choice to be out going and
>: extroverted?
>: Does god give accident victims like Christopher Reeve the choice to go
>: back and change the circumstances that cause the accident?
>: Does god give mentally ill people or babies with birth defects the
>: choice to be born normal?
It isn't God who causes these things, It's Satan....and he wants you
to believe that it's God. Satan is a powerful being and is fighting a
war and the war is over our souls.
We all deserve to die and will....the wages of sin is death.
Jesus taught us how to pray....To the Father...thy will be done on
earth as it is in heaven.
God's will isn't being done....thats why we have what you metion
above.
>: The answer to all these questions is NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>: Seems god doesn't really care about his human creation at all!
>: Fact is, he's laughing at us right now! The bible tells me so, not in
>: so many words, (it's not truthful enough), but it does tell me this!
God loved us so much that He sent His only Son to die so that if we
believe we will no perish but have eternal life.
Could He love us any more than that?
I don't believe in any man made religion...but I do believe this.
Hope you find it too.
Rick
ΗξΔΌΡηµ¤ά wrote:
>
> awhitlow <awhi...@copper.helios.nd.edu> Thee expoused the following
> stuff:
>
> >SAITH>God does not allow the evils in the world to happen. WE ALLOW THEM TO
> ==========================================================================
> I'm sick of this 'free will' crap.
>
> Did god give us the choice to not die of disease?
> Did god give plane crash victims (or other folly of man) the choice to
> not get killed?
> Did god give natural disaster victims (acts of god) the choice to not
> experience it?
> Did god give the holocaust victims, the 1.5 million slaughtered under
> Pol Pot, the victims of the crusades, any evil regime, serial killers,
> hell any victims of man's injustice, did he give them the choice to
> not be?
> Did god ask if I even wanted to be born?
> Does god give me the choice to live forever? (No lame heaven
> garantees, please!)
> Does god give lonely people the choice to be out going and
> extroverted?
> Does god give accident victims like Christopher Reeve the choice to go
> back and change the circumstances that cause the accident?
> Does god give mentally ill people or babies with birth defects the
> choice to be born normal?
>
>
> Seems god doesn't really care about his human creation at all!
> Fact is, he's laughing at us right now! The bible tells me so, not in
> so many words, (it's not truthful enough), but it does tell me this!
>
> there is no religion, only indecision.
>
> Teik Bane
>
> All religion is garbage and should be forsaken by it's practitioners.
When we ignore the signs of a lesson to be learned, we forsake choice
and a tougher lesson is given to us. Unless we learn from these
lessons, they will merely become harder to understand. Whether you
believe in God, or some other form of universal power is irrelivant.
You will either learn that EVERYTHING is for a reason and learn from
life's lessons, or you will turn away, shouting "no one loves me" or
"religion is CRAP". The choice is OURS, no one else's.
Jana Greaser
In article <5gidl5$sgu$1...@aura.soltec.net>, 1@2.3 (ΗξΔΌΡ絤ά) wrote:
> awhitlow <awhi...@copper.helios.nd.edu> Thee expoused the following
> stuff:
>
> >SAITH>God does not allow the evils in the world to happen. WE ALLOW THEM TO
> >SAITH>HAPPEN. God gave us free will.
> ==========================================================================
> I'm sick of this 'free will' crap.
me too!!!
>
> Did god give us the choice to not die of disease?
> Did god give plane crash victims (or other folly of man) the choice to
> not get killed?
> Did god give natural disaster victims (acts of god) the choice to not
> experience it?
> Did god give the holocaust victims, the 1.5 million slaughtered under
> Pol Pot, the victims of the crusades, any evil regime, serial killers,
> hell any victims of man's injustice, did he give them the choice to
> not be?
> Did god ask if I even wanted to be born?
> Does god give me the choice to live forever? (No lame heaven
> garantees, please!)
> Does god give lonely people the choice to be out going and
> extroverted?
> Does god give accident victims like Christopher Reeve the choice to go
> back and change the circumstances that cause the accident?
> Does god give mentally ill people or babies with birth defects the
> choice to be born normal?
>
> The answer to all these questions is NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>
> Seems god doesn't really care about his human creation at all!
"HIS" creation?! There is no "God".
> Fact is, he's laughing at us right now!
How can he be laughing at us right now when HE doesn't exist???
> The bible tells me so, not in
> so many words, (it's not truthful enough), but it does tell me this!
The Bible was written by mankind, only a product of someone's imagination.
>
> Of course, this is all for sake of arguement. gods don't exist, and
> there is no religion, only indecision.
Right!
Staffan Nielsen
shadow kreep (unk...@bellatlantic.net) wrote:
: <HTML><BODY>
You MIMED it, you godless kreep! Have it your way then (unread).
S.
(I removed some obviously off-topic newsgroups)
Joan Tine
Jay Port (jdp...@cyberdude.com) wrote:
: > Teik Bane
: > All religion is garbage and should be forsaken by it's practitioners.
: As a practicing Christian magician, I completely disagree with you. But
: you'll find out sometime within the next 100 years (unless you live
: longer than that).
Now _that's_ something you don't see every day. What tradition,
Soc. Inner Light, BOTA, that British book "Theurgy", or what? (There
was a time I'd have refused to let you leave until you'd talked my
arms off...).
J.
IC
> >
> > All religion is garbage and should be forsaken by it's practitioners.
that idea.
Do you all believe in the existence of your own selves ? If you do
you have proven your point. Be an atheist if you wish to, but it is not
right to hurt others beliefs in the same vein. The fingers in our own
hands are not all the same size and shape and strength. Does it mean we
cut off one or the other. Harmony is the key between humans. Just as God
exists for those who wish to think that way so also its noumenon for
those who think there is no God.Both are right in their own level of
understanding and experience. We experience lower truths and go on
towrads higher and higher truths. The believers and their opposites all
live and learn in the same world of ours, and nowhere else.
It's just my opinion and some food for thought.
Colin Hankin
In article <3330B8...@smartt.com>, IC <in...@smartt.com> writes
Every religion is based on the Mystic's experience. This is their
taproot and the source of all their power. Such a statement obviously
rings true for Buddhism and its derivative religions and there is some
evidence for mystical experience in Christianity. (The God of Moses is
I AM - unpredicated existence - just awareness.)
However the way of the mystic is not easy and requires years of
unrewarded effort before anything really worthwhile is experienced by
the average meditator. Getting rid of random thoughts, worries etc is
hard.
It is natural for people to want immediate benefits, so Nirvana -
perfect good - is personified and called God. Now people can delegate
their fears, worries, misgivings to a benign father figure who will
"look after them". Life becomes undeniably easier; there is no need to
worry about anything, God will protect and nurture us. Our "mood" is
improved - we are significantly happier - just as it is with the
seasoned meditator.
Unfortunately our caring father figure acquires logical responsibilities
which he quite clearly does not (indeed cannot) fulfill - see the list
above - and the baby gets thrown out with the bathwater.
TTFN
--
Colin Hankin Buddha said, There is hope for man only in man.
web site http://www.zenprime.demon.co.uk
Bijou Fan
Robin Miller wrote:
>
> <buncha crap removed>
> So let me get this straight: Anyone who doesn't follow your particular
Like most of the people in this thread, I too have been given some
information from a higher power. We are actually living a practicle
joke. God is trying to see how much crap we are willing to take and
still believe any fantasty sent our way.
The really cool part of all this is that whatever we happen to believe
when we die, we live in the next life. For example, let's say that you
are an ultra Christian and really into hell fire and brim stone for any
little infraction. No one has ever been able to live up to the bull shit
that these people preach so they are all going to get to spend their
next lives trying to duck hot rocks falling from the sky.
I kind of favor a strict interp of the new testement being that it is so
close to St Patrick's Day and all. I can't figure out how to save
myself; another guy felt sorry for me and died to save me; and,
therefore, I am saved to live a life of total happiness. Seems easy
enough to do and also what the New Testement seems to say.
--
Paul McManus <jpen...@earthlink.net>
Experience enables you to recognize a mistake when you make it again -
Anon.
Michael Gillies
Lurking With Intent To Loiter wrote:
>
> >I'm sick of this 'free will' crap.
>
>
>
> (Actually, we have disease BECAUSE of free will... 'way back in the
> Adam and Eve days.)
>
> >not get killed?
>
>
> >experience it?
>
> to jump in front of a speeding train.)
>
> >Pol Pot, the victims of the crusades, any evil regime, serial killers,
> >hell any victims of man's injustice, did he give them the choice to
> >not be?
>
> circumstances, and the outcome changes. (If there are no speeding
> trains handy, there's always the nearby cliff.)
>
>
>
> >garantees, please!)
>
> will" means.
>
> >extroverted?
>
> included.
>
> >back and change the circumstances that cause the accident?
> >Does god give mentally ill people or babies with birth defects the
> >choice to be born normal?
>
> be no suffering. Free will means that if there is a choice to be made,
> YOU get to make it. Not instinct. Not some pre-guided script. By
> having the ability to make mistakes, we have the ability to learn from
> those mistakes. If you exercise your free will and make a choice that
> causes you to suffer, then when that same choice comes up, you'll know
> (hopefully) how to NOT make that choice.
>
>
>
> >so many words, (it's not truthful enough), but it does tell me this!
>
>
> >there is no religion, only indecision.
>
> then neither of us will care, as we will have ceased to exist. If I'm
> right, however, you'll be regretting it for a *LONG* time.
>
> (Flames ignored; I refused to participate in a battle of wits with
> unarmed people.)
Which "god" are you talking about. Not the same one that let thousands of
"christain soldiers" die during the Crusades? This isn't the same "god" that has
TV evangelists collecting millions of dollars each year from people who want to
be guarenteed a seat in the afterlife. I kmow this has a lot to do with "faith",
but what about the poor, who have no money to give. Will these people have a
reserved seat after they die?
(All flames welcome, since I belive I am "intelligent" enough to respond in a
rational and unemotional manner.)
Michael Gillies
r...@pacific-ocean.com
On 17 Mar 1997 23:47:29 GMT, "Chantel" <cha...@sonet.net> wrote:
>For God so loved the wolrd that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life --John 3:16
>God is giving you a choice. It's all up to you, No judgement here just choice
boboroshi/CoE
49970322 AA1 Hail Satan!
MAKE LOVE NOT BABIES!
awhitlow <awhi...@copper.helios.nd.edu>:
>> All religion is garbage and should be forsaken by it's practitioners.
garbage is sometimes good food and the slaves of religions are at times
better wasted in its clutches than wandering about making trouble elsewhere.
Rick <pwr...@Mindspring.com>:
>When we ignore the signs of a lesson to be learned, we forsake choice
>and a tougher lesson is given to us. Unless we learn from these
>lessons, they will merely become harder to understand.
what constitutes a lesson and what constitutes blatant falsity is at issue.
>Whether you believe in God,
which one?
>or some other form of universal power is irrelivant.
>You will either learn that EVERYTHING is for a reason
inventing reasons we can always postulate that. our terminal self-delusion.
>and learn from life's lessons,
it is very difficult to imagine that 'life' may not be attempting to
instruct us like children after we've left human schools.
>or you will turn away, shouting "no one loves me"
a relative qualifier.
>or "religion is CRAP".
demonstrably true.
>The choice is OURS, no one else's.
luckily so.
SAVE THE PLANET, KILL YOURSELF!
_________________________________________________________________________
boboroshi: ty...@houseofkaos.abyss.com --- http://www.hollyfeld.org/coe/
SOD-TOKUS office: 408/2-666-SLUG --- Mother Church (CoE): c...@netcom.com
--
see http://www.hollyfeld.org/~tyagi/nagasiva.html and call: 408/2-666-SLUG!!!
---- (emailed replies may be posted) ---- CC public replies to author ----
* * * Asphalta Cementia Metallica Polymera Coyote La Cucaracha Humana * * *
Don Daoust
Remember your statements on judgement day!
Shaggy
First off I will write my response *first* and not have the reader
scroll through hundreds of lines of unimportant gibberish.
Ok, now to answer your question about poor getting into Heaven: yes
they can. In fact, Jesus, the Son of the Almighty God, was poor. He
wasn't livin' it up with wine, women, and song, but diligently doing his
work, God's will.
Poor people also have an equal opportunity as those who are rich. You
don't have to give money to a TV evangilist to get into Heaven. It's
not like there's a toll booth outside the Pearly Gates. You need to
*believe* and accept the fact that God created you and Jesus saved you.
Anyone can do that.
> > >All religion is garbage and should be forsaken by it's practitioners.
> >
J W Beamon
Don Daoust wrote:
>
> Remember your statements on judgement day!
Oh girl. Get off the cross, someone could use the wood!
John A Lane
In article <5gidl5$sgu$1...@aura.soltec.net>, ΗξΔΌΡηµ¤ά <1@2.3> wrote:
>awhitlow <awhi...@copper.helios.nd.edu> Thee expoused the following
>stuff:
>
>>SAITH>God does not allow the evils in the world to happen. WE ALLOW THEM TO
>>SAITH>HAPPEN. God gave us free will.
>==========================================================================
>
>Did god give us the choice to not die of disease?
>not get killed?
>experience it?
>Pol Pot, the victims of the crusades, any evil regime, serial killers,
>hell any victims of man's injustice, did he give them the choice to
>not be?
>garantees, please!)
>extroverted?
>back and change the circumstances that cause the accident?
>Does god give mentally ill people or babies with birth defects the
>choice to be born normal?
>
>
>
>Teik Bane
>
>All religion is garbage and should be forsaken by it's practitioners.
>
First time I've ever seen the words "Pol Pot" and "Christopher Reeve" in
a theological argument. You forgot to mention "Pauly Shore" -- a BIG reason
to doubt the existence of God.
--John
--
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
j...@iastatek.edu
THE 719 BREWERY: Not-So-Grand Opening
http://www.iastate.edu/~jal/
John A Lane
In article <5gm8us$r...@tandem.CAM.ORG>, Robert Legault <gr...@cam.org> wrote:
>jo...@snugbug.cts.com (Joan Tine) wrote:
>
>>ΗξΔΌΡηµ¤ά (1@2.3) wrote:
>
>>: Did god give us the choice to not die of disease?
>>: Did god give plane crash victims (or other folly of man) the choice to
>>: not get killed?
>>: Did god give natural disaster victims (acts of god) the choice to not
>>: experience it?
>>: Did god give the holocaust victims, the 1.5 million slaughtered under
>>: Pol Pot, the victims of the crusades, any evil regime, serial killers,
>>: hell any victims of man's injustice, did he give them the choice to
>>: not be?
>>: Did god ask if I even wanted to be born?
>>: Does god give me the choice to live forever? (No lame heaven
>>: garantees, please!)
>>: Does god give lonely people the choice to be out going and
>>: extroverted?
>>: Does god give accident victims like Christopher Reeve the choice to go
>>: back and change the circumstances that cause the accident?
>>: Does god give mentally ill people or babies with birth defects the
>>: choice to be born normal?
>
>to believe that it's God. Satan is a powerful being and is fighting a
>war and the war is over our souls.
....And Satan, of course, goes by the name of "Pauly Shore".
Vince, The GREY master
In article <5heg37$ft5$1...@news.iastate.edu>, John A Lane
<j...@iastate.edu> writes
>First time I've ever seen the words "Pol Pot" and "Christopher Reeve" in
>a theological argument. You forgot to mention "Pauly Shore" -- a BIG reason
>to doubt the existence of God.
--
Vince, The GREY master,
Long long ago in a place not unlike this place
was a thing not unlike this thing..
See things never change.....
Yes matron I'll have my medication now....
Not the pepper enema AGAIN...OOOOOOOOOhhhh
Live Long and perspire.
Use the Force Luke..if that don't work kick it!
I married a cylone...'by your command'
Call me a twit, call me an idiot, but call me...email always welcome
Joan Tine
John A Lane (j...@iastate.edu) wrote:
: In article <5gm8us$r...@tandem.CAM.ORG>, Robert Legault <gr...@cam.org> wrote:
: >jo...@snugbug.cts.com (Joan Tine) wrote:
: >to believe that it's God. Satan is a powerful being and is fighting a
: >war and the war is over our souls.
: ....And Satan, of course, goes by the name of "Pauly Shore".
: --John
If you intend to quote me, please do me the courtesy of getting your
attributions correct. Nothing in the message you posted came from me.
Jackass.
Joan
Jahnu das
Some fool wrote:
>>I'm sick of this 'free will' crap.
>>
>>Did god give us the choice to not die of disease?
He did. He gave you the chance to escape the cycle of birth and death
and return to the spiritual world.
>>Did god give plane crash victims (or other folly of man) the choice to
>>not get killed?
He sure did. He gave you the chance to become reinstatet in your
original position of eternality, knowledge and bliss.
>>Did god give natural disaster victims (acts of god) the choice to not
>>experience it?
He most certainly did. You have the possibility to get out of this
material world all together and experience lasting happiness.
>>Did god give the holocaust victims, the 1.5 million slaughtered under
>>Pol Pot, the victims of the crusades, any evil regime, serial killers,
>>hell any victims of man's injustice, did he give them the choice to
>>not be?
He gave you the choice to act one way or another. If you insist on
torturing and slaughtering poor defenseless animals in research labs
and automated slaughter houses, don't whine like a pathetic coward
when you suffer the consequences.
>>Did god ask if I even wanted to be born?
He did. You asked for it.
>>Does god give me the choice to live forever? (No lame heaven
>>garantees, please!)
He does, but you refuse to listen.
>>Does god give lonely people the choice to be out going and
>>extroverted?
Everyone is enjoying or suffering according to their own activities.
It's called karma.
>>Does god give accident victims like Christopher Reeve the choice to go
>>back and change the circumstances that cause the accident?
He gives you the chance to learn life after life. If you insist on
remaining in ignorance what can He do?
>>Does god give mentally ill people or babies with birth defects the
>>choice to be born normal?
Yes, next life, when they have suffered the consequences of their
activities in this life.
>>The answer to all these questions is NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
And this you know because of...?
>>All religion is garbage and should be forsaken by it's practitioners.
Religion is not garbage, it is just being distorted and misused by
unscrupulous men to further their own schemes - like so many other
things like politics and consumerism are being used to suppress
people.
/Jahnu
Charlie
John A Lane wrote:
>
I certainly don't agree that all religion is crap, but I do believe
that all religious organizations are crap. Just like the government, at
the top level the priority is power and money!
new toy
Joan Tine wrote:
>
> John A Lane (j...@iastate.edu) wrote:
> : In article <5gm8us$r...@tandem.CAM.ORG>, Robert Legault <gr...@cam.org> wrote:
> : >jo...@snugbug.cts.com (Joan Tine) wrote:
> : >It isn't God who causes these things, It's Satan....and he wants you
> : >to believe that it's God. Satan is a powerful being and is fighting a
> : >war and the war is over our souls.
>
> : ....And Satan, of course, goes by the name of "Pauly Shore".
> : --John
>
> If you intend to quote me, please do me the courtesy of getting your
> attributions correct. Nothing in the message you posted came from me.
>
> Jackass.
>
> Joan
> --
That Pauley Shore has his own tv series is proof there is evil in the
world and God has abandonned us.
Cam Kirmser
Jahnu das wrote:
> *snip*
> He gave you the choice to act one way or another. If you insist on
> torturing and slaughtering poor defenseless animals in research labs
> and automated slaughter houses, don't whine like a pathetic coward
> when you suffer the consequences.
> /Jahnu
If it saves ONE human life, then I will ardently support the "torture"
or "slaughter" of any number of animals. Any human is more important
than any number of animals. Also, I enjoy meat, and will continue to
consume it as I desire.
--
Cam Kirmser
gam...@flash.net
Sic friatur crustum dulce et Obesa cantavit...
Jahnu das
On Sun, 30 Mar 1997 13:36:58 -0600, Cam Kirmser <gam...@flash.net>
wrote:
>Jahnu das wrote:
>> *snip*
>> He gave you the choice to act one way or another. If you insist on
>> torturing and slaughtering poor defenseless animals in research labs
>> and automated slaughter houses, don't whine like a pathetic coward
>> when you suffer the consequences.
>> *snip*
>> /Jahnu
>
>If it saves ONE human life, then I will ardently support the "torture"
>or "slaughter" of any number of animals. Any human is more important
>than any number of animals.
Well, the animals don't think so.
> Also, I enjoy meat, and will continue to
>consume it as I desire.
Sure. But then don't complain when you suffer the reactions for your
cruel and insensitive mentality.
Colin Dooley
>jo...@snugbug.cts.com (Joan Tine) wrote:
>It isn't God who causes these things, It's Satan....and he wants you
>to believe that it's God. Satan is a powerful being and is fighting a
>war and the war is over our souls.
Can anybody please e-mail me and tell me how to get in touch with
Satan. I will gladly sell my soul for a new Mercedes 500SL with
leather seats.
Maybe Satan reads this newsgroup and will answer personally.
Vince, The GREY master
In article <333F9A...@vlc.servicom.es>, Colin Dooley
<co...@vlc.servicom.es> writes
I asked satan and she said no.. cruel isn't she!
Matt Brooks
On Sat, 29 Mar 1997 19:34:40 GMT, Jahnu das (ja...@wineasy.se) wrote:
:
: >>>>>Did god give us the choice to not die of disease?
:
: He did. He gave you the chance to escape the cycle of birth and death
: and return to the spiritual world.
:
: >>>>>Did god give plane crash victims (or other folly of man) the choice
: >>>>>to not get killed?
:
: original position of eternality, knowledge and bliss.
:
: >>>>>Did god give natural disaster victims (acts of god) the choice to
: >>>>>not experience it?
:
: He most certainly did. You have the possibility to get out of this
: material world all together and experience lasting happiness.
<snip>
What - on a UFO behind a comet?
Honestly, some people ...
Matt
PL.HANZE.NL
Koune speaks: (and you'd better all listen!!!)
UFO's don't excist at all it is just some strange thing in your mind, you
want to get some attention and therefor you say that you have seen a
strange thing in the sky ** GRINN ** GET REAL !!!
FOR comments, mail: K.D...@st.hanze.nl
PL.HANZE.NL
THEY DO EXCIST, I SAW ONE YESTERDAU IN MY BACKYARD
Larry Adams
> >
> >If it saves ONE human life, then I will ardently support the "torture"
> >or "slaughter" of any number of animals. Any human is more important
> >than any number of animals.
>
> Well, the animals don't think so.
close, but no cigar... it's: "the animals don't think".
>
> > Also, I enjoy meat, and will continue to
> >consume it as I desire.
>
> Sure. But then don't complain when you suffer the reactions for your
> cruel and insensitive mentality.
cruel to whom? crueler than an animal's fate in the wild? (note: if farms/processors are doing
a poor job, then you have a defensible argument. in the absence of that, what _are_ you claiming?)
insensitive to whom? you, and your perception of an animal's _feelings_, or hopes and dreams
shattered by being born into a farm???
and finally, suffer what reactions? are you saying that eating meat causes adverse reactions,
or are you rationalizing for the violence you are prepared to embark on to stop legal activity?
sheesh.
larry
Todd Stephen Pettit
In article <33417A...@PL.HANZE.NL>, @PL.HANZE.NL wrote:
>Koune speaks: (and you'd better all listen!!!)
>
>UFO's don't excist at all it is just some strange thing in your mind, you
>want to get some attention and therefor you say that you have seen a
>strange thing in the sky ** GRINN ** GET REAL !!!
>
>FOR comments, mail: K.D...@st.hanze.nl
UFO's may not excist but spell checkers do exist <------
Cam Kirmser
> >> *snip*
> >> He gave you the choice to act one way or another. If you insist on
> >> torturing and slaughtering poor defenseless animals in research labs
> >> and automated slaughter houses, don't whine like a pathetic coward
> >> when you suffer the consequences.
> >> *snip*
> >> /Jahnu
> >
> >or "slaughter" of any number of animals. Any human is more important
> >than any number of animals.
>
> Well, the animals don't think so.
Animals do not think and are the property of humankind to do with as we
please. Now, I do not support wanton slaughter, but I do support as many
as are necessary to ensure a human is not discomfitted.
>
> > Also, I enjoy meat, and will continue to
> >consume it as I desire.
>
> Sure. But then don't complain when you suffer the reactions for your
> cruel and insensitive mentality.
And what reactions are those? Are you saying the animals will revolt?
Some sort of "War Crimes" trial will be held?
Cam Kirmser
@PL.HANZE.NL wrote:
>
> Koune speaks: (and you'd better all listen!!!)
>
> UFO's don't excist at all it is just some strange thing in your mind, you
> want to get some attention and therefor you say that you have seen a
> strange thing in the sky ** GRINN ** GET REAL !!!
>
> FOR comments, mail: K.D...@st.hanze.nl
Continue in your delusion, Deuze...
John
Some of the stuff you people post is pretty interesting, and I enjoy
reading it....IN THE APPROPRIATE FORUM
For some weeks now the God and religion thread has spilled over to
alt.smokers
This stuff happens all the time, but it is easy to correct. It just
takes each of us a little time to make certain that our posts are going
to appropriate groups.
Thanks
--
John Sion on IRC Tenerezu on AOL
For me there is only the travelling on paths that have heart,
on any path that may have heart. There I travel, and the only
worthwhile challenge is to traverse its full length. And there
I travel looking, looking, breathlessly.
Juan Matus
EE:B8:0C:BB:38:B6:41:E1:8D:78:DE:25:45:E7:04:95
Grosjean Stagg
YOU MISSPELLED EXIST! If you're going to BS us, at least spell it
correctly!
rachael
Cam Kirmser <gam...@flash.net> wrote in article
<334199...@flash.net>...
> Jahnu das wrote:
> >
> > On Sun, 30 Mar 1997 13:36:58 -0600, Cam Kirmser <gam...@flash.net>
> > wrote:
> >
> > >Jahnu das wrote:
> > >> *snip*
> > >> He gave you the choice to act one way or another. If you insist on
> > >> torturing and slaughtering poor defenseless animals in research labs
> > >> and automated slaughter houses, don't whine like a pathetic coward
> > >> when you suffer the consequences.
> > >> *snip*
I dont approve of most lab testing on animals because of the unnecessary
activities. i.e. injecting eye shadow into the eyeball makes no sense.
However, animal testing has revealed the clues necessary to save lives. We
have discovered the vaccines for our children. Etc.
> > >> /Jahnu
> > >
> > >If it saves ONE human life, then I will ardently support the "torture"
> > >or "slaughter" of any number of animals. Any human is more important
> > >than any number of animals.
> >
> > Well, the animals don't think so.
>
> Animals do not think and are the property of humankind to do with as we
> please. Now, I do not support wanton slaughter, but I do support as many
> as are necessary to ensure a human is not discomfitted.
>
But if killing ten heads of cattle would save one life yet that death would
cause the slow starvation of one child later, would you still do that? You
need to think of the long term effects of your actions as well as the
immediate results.
> >
> > > Also, I enjoy meat, and will continue to
> > >consume it as I desire.
> >
> > Sure. But then don't complain when you suffer the reactions for your
> > cruel and insensitive mentality.
>
Being pagan and believing in The Mother Goddess and The Lord of the Hunt, I
believe that eating the flesh of other creatures is part of the circle of
life. The God does not hunt the wild asparagus
> And what reactions are those? Are you saying the animals will revolt?
> Some sort of "War Crimes" trial will be held?
>
> --
Baney
Cam Kirmser wrote:
>
> Jahnu das wrote:
> >
> > On Sun, 30 Mar 1997 13:36:58 -0600, Cam Kirmser <gam...@flash.net>
> > wrote:
> >
> > >Jahnu das wrote:
> > >> *snip*
> > >> He gave you the choice to act one way or another. If you insist on
> > >> torturing and slaughtering poor defenseless animals in research labs
> > >> and automated slaughter houses, don't whine like a pathetic coward
> > >> when you suffer the consequences.
> > >> *snip*
> > >
> > >If it saves ONE human life, then I will ardently support the "torture"
> > >or "slaughter" of any number of animals. Any human is more important
> > >than any number of animals.
> >
> > Well, the animals don't think so.
>
> Animals do not think and are the property of humankind to do with as we
> please. Now, I do not support wanton slaughter, but I do support as many
> as are necessary to ensure a human is not discomfitted.
>
> >
> > >consume it as I desire.
> >
> > Sure. But then don't complain when you suffer the reactions for your
> > cruel and insensitive mentality.
>
> Some sort of "War Crimes" trial will be held?
>
> --
>
> Cam Kirmser
Hey man, ever hear of "Animal Farm" Mabey that will happen. The cows
will start kickn' ass...
-Mike
rda...@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca
new toy (new...@mail.earthlink.net) wrote:
: Joan Tine wrote:
: >
: > John A Lane (j...@iastate.edu) wrote:
: > : In article <5gm8us$r...@tandem.CAM.ORG>, Robert Legault <gr...@cam.org> wrote:
: > : >It isn't God who causes these things, It's Satan....and he wants you
: > : >to believe that it's God. Satan is a powerful being and is fighting a
: > : >war and the war is over our souls.
: > : ....And Satan, of course, goes by the name of "Pauly Shore".
: > : --John
: >
: > If you intend to quote me, please do me the courtesy of getting your
: > attributions correct. Nothing in the message you posted came from me.
: >
: > Jackass.
: >
: > Joan
: That Pauley Shore has his own tv series is proof there is evil in the
: world and God has abandonned us.
How did Pauly Shore get into this whole thing?! geez people! he's just an
actor!!
Tornado!
Phill Jackson
If you learn to spell, maybe we will take what you say into
consideration **GRIN** (aint going to happen).
HAVE A NICE DAY ! :-)
Mar...@ix.netcom.com
Cam Kirmser wrote:
>
> Animals do not think and are the property of humankind to do with as we
> please. Now, I do not support wanton slaughter, but I do support as many
> as are necessary to ensure a human is not discomfitted.
Yikes! Are you really sure you want to say that? If you do believe this, what led you
to this belief? Are you just assuming that since we 'seem' superior, that anything
'inferior' to us is our (humankind's) property to do with what we please? That's a
pretty horrific notion...
Also, my little ol' dictionary shows discomfitted to mean 'upset' or 'frustrated'. (I
had no idea what it meant so I had to look it up) So, you are saying that animals can
be killed so that humans can be less upset or frustrated with life? I see what you are
saying, but the thought is definitely a rather scary one, if you take it to its
logical conclusions....
Mal Gossett
Crossposting is like crossdressing, which the PRICK that thinks all
religion is crap does all the time.
--
Kim Heyman
In article <334199...@flash.net> Cam Kirmser <gam...@flash.net> writes:
>Jahnu das wrote:
>>
>> On Sun, 30 Mar 1997 13:36:58 -0600, Cam Kirmser <gam...@flash.net>
>> wrote:
>>
>> >Jahnu das wrote:
>> >> *snip*
>> >> He gave you the choice to act one way or another. If you insist on
>> >> torturing and slaughtering poor defenseless animals in research labs
>> >> and automated slaughter houses, don't whine like a pathetic coward
>> >> when you suffer the consequences.
>> >> *snip*
>> >> /Jahnu
>> >
>> >If it saves ONE human life, then I will ardently support the "torture"
>> >or "slaughter" of any number of animals. Any human is more important
>> >than any number of animals.
>>
>> Well, the animals don't think so.
>
>please. Now, I do not support wanton slaughter, but I do support as many
>as are necessary to ensure a human is not discomfitted.
>
Gods, the overwhelming arrogance. What makes you think that they don't
think? Because you can't communicate with them? I suppose it's never
crossed your mind that just because we as humans haven't learned to
communicate with them, doesn't mean they don't communicate. When slavery
was legal, the white man could "communicate" with the black man, yet
still thought of blacks as subhuman. Humans are not the superior race,
they're just the ruling one currently. I'd rather never discover a cure
for cancer than have an animal suffer because of it. I eat meat, just
like a lion or a wolf will eat meat. But not because these animals are
ours to do with as we please.
Fact is they've survived for a hell of a lot longer than we have, not
because they developed technology and tested on other animals but because
they adapted, and the gods or whoever willed that their time is still here.
We as humans are forcing our race to perpetuate, regardless of what we
have to destroy to achieve a race immortality. On an abstract level I
think diseases like cancer and Aids might be the gods way of evening out
the balance. It's only too bad that a lot of good people die of these
diseases, rather than arrogant morons like yourself. One can always hope.
Kim
--
Kimberlee S. Heyman mailto:khe...@bae.bellcore.com
Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend.
Inside of a dog, it is too dark to read. - Groucho Marx
Charles Waters
>> >If it saves ONE human life, then I will ardently support the "torture"
>> >or "slaughter" of any number of animals. Any human is more important
>> >than any number of animals.
There's gotta be some point where this statement no longer holds water. At some point,
you'd kill off so many critters, that the ecosystem, which also depends on
them, would cease to function correctly.
>close, but no cigar... it's: "the animals don't think".
You don't think animals think? Give me a break. Define thinking. They might
not have the higher levels of understanding that we have, but have you ever
seen a dog play with your kid? I can honestly say that my dog truly ENJOYs
itself when it can play with my child. I think animals think.
>> > Also, I enjoy meat, and will continue to
>> >consume it as I desire.
Me too.
>> Sure. But then don't complain when you suffer the reactions for your
>> cruel and insensitive mentality.
Same as smokers and drinkers. I still agree.
>cruel to whom? crueler than an animal's fate in the wild? (note: if
> farms/processors are doing
I'd say that raising critters for good in the manner that we do is cruel under
some circumstances. Lucky we're at the top of the food chain! ;)
>and finally, suffer what reactions? are you saying that eating meat causes
> adverse reactions...
Jeez dude. Have you ever read a newspaper. Do you have any doubt that eating
meat causes high cholesterol? Duh.
Josh Liller
: UFO's don't excist at all it is just some strange thing in your mind, you
: want to get some attention and therefor you say that you have seen a
: strange thing in the sky ** GRINN ** GET REAL !!!
: FOR comments, mail: K.D...@st.hanze.nl
Yes, you're absolutely right. The UFO witnesses are
mearly thousands of people who have a strange mental
disorder that causes them to see strange things that
don't exist and then try to seek publicity about it.
Tunring from sarcasm to logic, logic dictates that
due to the size of the galaxy, we sure as hell AREN'T
alone.
And, considering the speed and manuverability of UFO's,
a race capable of making craft like that, ceratainly
could make fster than light travel possible.
--
Josh Liller
jli...@mc.seflin.org
http://www.geocities.com/Colosseum/6513
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Arcade/7235
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Alley/2133
Carol Clark
If I didn't snip the wrong stuff and am quoting correctly, Grosjean
Stagg <"pyr...@bellsouth.net"@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>Cam Kirmser wrote:
>>
>> @PL.HANZE.NL wrote:
>> >
>> > Koune speaks: (and you'd better all listen!!!)
>> >
>> > UFO's don't excist at all it is just some strange thing in your mind, you
>> > want to get some attention and therefor you say that you have seen a
>> > strange thing in the sky ** GRINN ** GET REAL !!!
>> >
>> > FOR comments, mail: K.D...@st.hanze.nl
>>
>> Continue in your delusion, Deuze...
>>
>> --
>>
>> Cam Kirmser
>> gam...@flash.net
>> Sic friatur crustum dulce et Obesa cantavit...
>YOU MISSPELLED EXIST! If you're going to BS us, at least spell it
>correctly!
I had the same reaction at first, but then I thought -- could I write
that fluently in a language not my native tongue??? Let's give credit
where credit is due, folks!!
"Together we are doing what we could not do alone."
CarolC
Old Fogey
Cam Kirmser
> > >
> > > On Sun, 30 Mar 1997 13:36:58 -0600, Cam Kirmser <gam...@flash.net>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > >Jahnu das wrote:
> > > >> *snip*
> > > >> He gave you the choice to act one way or another. If you insist on
> > > >> torturing and slaughtering poor defenseless animals in research labs
> > > >> and automated slaughter houses, don't whine like a pathetic coward
> > > >> when you suffer the consequences.
> > > >> *snip*
> activities. i.e. injecting eye shadow into the eyeball makes no sense.
> However, animal testing has revealed the clues necessary to save lives. We
> have discovered the vaccines for our children. Etc.
Injecting the eyeshadow does make sense. It enables scientists to ensure
that a human eye is not injured.
> > > >> /Jahnu
> > > >
> > > >If it saves ONE human life, then I will ardently support the "torture"
> > > >or "slaughter" of any number of animals. Any human is more important
> > > >than any number of animals.
> > >
> > > Well, the animals don't think so.
> >
> > Animals do not think and are the property of humankind to do with as we
> > please. Now, I do not support wanton slaughter, but I do support as many
> > as are necessary to ensure a human is not discomfitted.
> >
> But if killing ten heads of cattle would save one life yet that death would
> cause the slow starvation of one child later, would you still do that? You
> need to think of the long term effects of your actions as well as the
> immediate results.
Well, if the world's food situtation had reached the point where that
was a concern, I think we'd have more on our minds than just that ONE
child's life; like, perhaps the rest of the starving masses.
> > >
> > > > Also, I enjoy meat, and will continue to
> > > >consume it as I desire.
> > >
> > > Sure. But then don't complain when you suffer the reactions for your
> > > cruel and insensitive mentality.
> >
> Being pagan and believing in The Mother Goddess and The Lord of the Hunt, I
> believe that eating the flesh of other creatures is part of the circle of
> life. The God does not hunt the wild asparagus
Oh, c'mon... The "Mother Who?" What has caused this inane fascination
with silly new age religions? I suppose you think the Earth is a
thinking being as opposed to a fairly big rock? Gad....
> > And what reactions are those? Are you saying the animals will revolt?
> > Some sort of "War Crimes" trial will be held?
> >
>
Cam Kirmser
Baney wrote:
>
> Cam Kirmser wrote:
> >
> > Jahnu das wrote:
> > >
> > > On Sun, 30 Mar 1997 13:36:58 -0600, Cam Kirmser <gam...@flash.net>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > >Jahnu das wrote:
> > > >> *snip*
> > > >> He gave you the choice to act one way or another. If you insist on
> > > >> torturing and slaughtering poor defenseless animals in research labs
> > > >> and automated slaughter houses, don't whine like a pathetic coward
> > > >> when you suffer the consequences.
> > > >> *snip*
> > > >
> > > >If it saves ONE human life, then I will ardently support the "torture"
> > > >or "slaughter" of any number of animals. Any human is more important
> > > >than any number of animals.
> > >
> > > Well, the animals don't think so.
> >
> > Animals do not think and are the property of humankind to do with as we
> > please. Now, I do not support wanton slaughter, but I do support as many
> > as are necessary to ensure a human is not discomfitted.
> >
> > >
> > > >consume it as I desire.
> > >
> > > Sure. But then don't complain when you suffer the reactions for your
> > > cruel and insensitive mentality.
> >
> > Some sort of "War Crimes" trial will be held?
> >
> > --
> >
> > Cam Kirmser
>
> will start kickn' ass...
> -Mike
> > Sic friatur crustum dulce et Obesa cantavit...
Oh, give me a break...
Be serious...
Thomas Eastwood (PSY)
I'm sure you all have a fascinating discussion going on here, but would
you mind getting it the hell out of alt.startrek and wherever else you may
have it, and putting in in alt.religion where it belongs?
TJ
Remember, only you can prevent SPAM, only you...
Jahnu das
On 2 Apr 1997 17:22:11 GMT, "rachael" <fig...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>Being pagan and believing in The Mother Goddess and The Lord of the Hunt, I
>believe that eating the flesh of other creatures is part of the circle of
>life. The God does not hunt the wild asparagus
Do you hunt what you eat, or do you buy your meat nicely packaged in
plastic letting others do the dirty job for you?
Is it alright for me to hunt you down and eat you?
/Jahhnu
www.users.wineasy.se/storm/
www.krsna.com
¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤
"Never was there a time when I did not exist,
nor you, nor all these kings; nor in the future
shall any of us cease to be."
¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤
(Krishna to Arjuna before the battle)
Jahnu das
>Cam Kirmser <gam...@flash.net> wrote in article
>> And what reactions are those? Are you saying the animals will revolt?
>> Some sort of "War Crimes" trial will be held?
You will know when nature makes you suffer. There are three ways you
suffer the karmic reactions to your activities.
Suffering that comes from your own body or mind, like disease and
insanity. Suffering that is imposed on you by other living entities,
like someone beating you up, mosquitoes etc., and suffering that comes
to you from nature in the form of natural catastrophies.
These three fold miseries you will suffer to the same degree that you
inflict suffering on others.
to...@usit.net
Animals don't think idiot...@wineasy.se (Jahnu das) wrote:
>On Sun, 30 Mar 1997 13:36:58 -0600, Cam Kirmser <gam...@flash.net>
>wrote:
>>Jahnu das wrote:
>>> *snip*
>>> He gave you the choice to act one way or another. If you insist on
>>> torturing and slaughtering poor defenseless animals in research labs
>>> and automated slaughter houses, don't whine like a pathetic coward
>>> when you suffer the consequences.
>>> *snip*
>>> /Jahnu
>>
>>If it saves ONE human life, then I will ardently support the "torture"
>>or "slaughter" of any number of animals. Any human is more important
>>than any number of animals.
>Well, the animals don't think so.
>> Also, I enjoy meat, and will continue to
Craig Brewer
"Crap."
Does that term denote a particular philosophical evaluation? Is it a
type of fallacy? Does it indicate that one's opponent has not fully
understood the issue at hand? Is it meant to suggest that one's own
evaluation differs from that currently offered? Does it imply that one
is speaking with another framework in mind?
I suppose I'm afraid (although not necessarily convinced) that such a
term says more about the user than the one whose argument it is
intended to describe. It seems to suggest a kind of generalized
dismissal of one's opponent's viewpoint, in which case one publicly
announces that one does not desire to engage in public debate. It
implies that the issue is closed and that philosophy has ceased. We
have entered a realm which is more about how loud one can scream than
about whose argument is more sound.
In a public lecture, I once heard a famous philosopher (who I do not
wish to name) call an audience member's question "crap." At that
moment, I realized that despite what his books say, this man was not a
philosopher, at least not when he speaks to other people, because he
is profoundly disinterested in conversation and discourse with those
who do not immediately agree to agree with him or, at the least, to
accept his groundrules (apparently the speech acts he loves best are
his own). For him, argument was apparently never meant to challenge
his own position, but was merely a way in which he could clarify his
own position (quite well, I will admit) and then accuse others of not
having understood his simple clarity. It was an odd experience. No one
else wanted to ask the man anything further. It was obvious we were
not intended to.
Craig
(meaning this post not as a slap on the hand to anyone...I hope I'm
not that pretensious...but rather to look at the limits of what count
as argumentative charity and, further, what kind of application both
Habermas' and Davidson's work on communication has on *philosophical*
etiquette...anyone up for it?)
Esore
>>Can you prove the resurrection of Jesus Christ is true? What sort of
>>evidence is there for it? If anyone can think of strong evidence for
>>any of Jesus's miracles, I would be eternally gratefull. If just one of
>>his miracles is supported by fact, then any logical person would have
>>strong reason to believe in the word of god. I would apprecitate any
>>feedback.
>>
>>Jonathan
>
>If you are really interested there are many great books on
>apologetics--a defense of faith. Here are a few:
>
>Evidence Demands a Verdict (2 vol), by Josh McDowell
>A Ready Defense, by Josh McDowell
>Faith and Reason, by Ronald Nash
>Can Man Live Without God, by Ravi Zacharias (this book deals with
>atheism and Christianity and is written by a former Hindu.)
>Mere Christianity, by C.S. Lewis (not an apologetic, but written by a
>former atheist/agnostic--a great book!)
>
>For those that have eyes to see and ears to hear, the evidence is
>overwhelming. If one looks at these books with the determination that
>Jesus is not God and Christianity is false, that is exactly the
>conclusion you will come to. If one is open however to what God has to
>show you, the results can be quite different.
>
>I would be more than happy to correspond with you if you have any
>other questions I might be able to answer.
I read most of these books many years ago during a period of deep searching.
They were clever books until I started putting on my critical thinking skills
to work. They were all deflated by logical assumptions, falacies, etc. The
Josh McDowell book I remember especially well. Much of it seems to work
until you realize that he takes certain "facts" as given: for example, that
the nature of God is what McDowell says; that Jesus' claim of being God can't
be explaned except in terms of lying or of madness (which are good
explanations, McDowell just pushes these arguments aside). If you've read
folks like Alan Watts or Ram Das, Jesus' claim of being one with God are
perfectly explanable, without making the silly claim that Jesus was God
himself.
I haven't read these books in twenty years. They might work for those who's
understanding of logic and argument is weak or who have very little
understanding or education in other religions. These books prove nothing
except the belief of the writers.
esore
Ryan Wood
Jonathan Bird <bir...@nmaa.org> wrote:
>Can you prove the resurrection of Jesus Christ is true? What sort of
>evidence is there for it? If anyone can think of strong evidence for
>any of Jesus's miracles, I would be eternally gratefull. If just one of
>his miracles is supported by fact, then any logical person would have
>strong reason to believe in the word of god. I would apprecitate any
>feedback.
>
>Jonathan
If you are really interested there are many great books on
apologetics--a defense of faith. Here are a few:
Evidence Demands a Verdict (2 vol), by Josh McDowell
A Ready Defense, by Josh McDowell
Faith and Reason, by Ronald Nash
Can Man Live Without God, by Ravi Zacharias (this book deals with
atheism and Christianity and is written by a former Hindu.)
Mere Christianity, by C.S. Lewis (not an apologetic, but written by a
former atheist/agnostic--a great book!)
For those that have eyes to see and ears to hear, the evidence is
overwhelming. If one looks at these books with the determination that
Jesus is not God and Christianity is false, that is exactly the
conclusion you will come to. If one is open however to what God has to
show you, the results can be quite different.
I would be more than happy to correspond with you if you have any
other questions I might be able to answer.
--
R Y A N W O O D
Orlando, FL
Ryan Wood
On 8 Apr 97 at 10:33, Esore wrote:
> I read most of these books many years ago during a period of deep
> searching. They were clever books until I started putting on my
> critical thinking skills to work. They were all deflated by logical
> assumptions, falacies, etc. The Josh McDowell book I remember
> especially well. Much of it seems to work until you realize that he
> takes certain "facts" as given: for example, that the nature of God
> is what McDowell says; that Jesus' claim of being God can't be
> explaned except in terms of lying or of madness (which are good
> explanations, McDowell just pushes these arguments aside). If
> you've read folks like Alan Watts or Ram Das, Jesus' claim of being
> one with God are perfectly explanable, without making the silly
> claim that Jesus was God himself.
>
> I haven't read these books in twenty years. They might work for
> those who's understanding of logic and argument is weak or who have
> very little understanding or education in other religions. These
> books prove nothing except the belief of the writers.
>
> esore
>
I am no stranger to logical inquiry. I was a philosophy major in
undergrad and am doing graduate work in theology and psychology. The
bottom line is that the Christian faith IS logically consistent. That
does not mean I can completely prove it is true, though I am fully
committed to the belief that it is.
One can spend an entire life demanding complete and utter rational
satisfaction regarding religion, so that no doubt remains. This will
not happen. The bottom line is that we each put our faith in
something--money, sex, power, fame, drugs, alcohol, or even self--to
fulfill us. Each of these eventually fail. My experience through
counseling people professionally with problems is that the self is
broken. We are not whole. New Age tells us we are God. We are not.
There is something fundamentally wrong or missing in each of us.
There exists pain and lonliness that our busy lives and many
activites can numb for a time but never alleviate completely.
We are broken people and the healing we need comes not from within
but from without.
Logic is a good and important tool. It is not however the basis of
life. Something undergirds logic. If we seek logic alone as the
ultimate criteria for truth, we miss a greater reality.
I realize you may disagree with everything I have said. That's fine.
I just want to make clear that there are bigger things than what our
finite minds can comprehend.
A God that I can fully comprehend is no God.
James J. Rohacik
Craig Brewer <bre...@texoma.com> wrote in article
<5icsuu$5...@news.texoma.com>...
> "Crap."
The word above appears to denote the entire contents of his article.
Regards,
James J. Rohacik
Organic Machinery
In article <334a51d3....@news.sundial.net>, wo...@sundial.net (Ryan Wood)
wrote:
[snip]
>I am no stranger to logical inquiry. I was a philosophy major in
>undergrad and am doing graduate work in theology and psychology. The
>bottom line is that the Christian faith IS logically consistent.
Try reading alt.atheism for awhile, and you'll find this statement to be quite
untrue.
>That
>does not mean I can completely prove it is true, though I am fully
>committed to the belief that it is.
Fine. But you do so against all logic, and against evidence that shows that
Christianity is NOT consistent, either with reality, or even with itself.
>One can spend an entire life demanding complete and utter rational
>satisfaction regarding religion, so that no doubt remains. This will
>not happen. The bottom line is that we each put our faith in
>something--money, sex, power, fame, drugs, alcohol, or even self--to
>fulfill us.
Seems like a "philosophy major" should understand the intellectual dishonesty in
mixing two definitions of "faith." One being a conscious belief (religious
"faith"), the other being a more metaphorical use of the word - a subconscious
reliance on something ("money, sex...").
The bottom line is, not everyone puts their "faith" (even your wording assumes
"faith" necessary) in something. A person, while relying on things like drugs
or money to make them feel good, is not putting religious convictions such
things (certain deadheads and economists not withstanding).
>Each of these eventually fail.
Proof by assertion? Pathetic. Show, for example, how "faith" in oneself
eventually fails everyone.
>My experience through
>counseling people professionally with problems is that the self is
>broken. We are not whole.
You're basing your assessment of us ("we" as a group) on your experience
counseling those with problems? Sort of like saying, "My experience as a prison
guard shows that everyone is a criminal," isn't it?
>New Age tells us we are God. We are not.
An oversimplification of "New Age." In fact, a complete misrepresentation of
some New Age philosophies.
Also, you merely assert we are not "God." You've yet to show a god, or provide
evidence to support your claim that we aren't "God."
>There is something fundamentally wrong or missing in each of us.
Assertion. Maybe there's something fundamentally wrong or missing in the
problem cases you work with - which is why they need counseling.
>There exists pain and lonliness that our busy lives and many
>activites can numb for a time but never alleviate completely.
So what? How does an emotional need show that ONE method of alleviating that
need is the RIGHT one?
You're mixing up the Hole (what you assume we're missing), with your particular
method of Filling it. You have to go to greater lengths to show that this Hole
is in a particular Shape (ie, in the shape of your god).
>We are broken people and the healing we need comes not from within
>but from without.
Assertion. Of course, you will provide us with evidence showing exactly WHAT
WITHOUT will heal us, won't you - rather than talking in vague circles?
>Logic is a good and important tool. It is not however the basis of
>life. Something undergirds logic. If we seek logic alone as the
>ultimate criteria for truth, we miss a greater reality.
You mean, any "reality" we feel like making up? A non-Christian isn't missing
out on that. That entertain themselves with fantasy all the time (TV, books,
etc.). They, however, don't make the error in confusing "reality" with
"fantasy," as you seem to do. Nor do we assume our "fantasies" are valid for
everyone else.
>I realize you may disagree with everything I have said. That's fine.
>I just want to make clear that there are bigger things than what our
>finite minds can comprehend.
Exactly. Which is why I'm an atheist.
>A God that I can fully comprehend is no God.
A statement like that *is* placing a definition on something you are saying you
are not able to comprehend - ie, cannot understand or define.
How do you know this?
--
Organic Machinery
a.a atheist #284
jtho...@ucsd.edu.nospam
"We make the world significant
by the courage of our questions
and the strength of our answers."
--Carl Sagan
TonyVu
What right do you think you have to judge others? There is no God that
condemns his followers. Only the religion that tells you to go judging
others is really CRAP.
Jahnu das
On Tue, 08 Apr 1997 23:17:41 -0500, TonyVu <t...@sprintmail.com> wrote:
>Jahnu das wrote:
>>
>> >Cam Kirmser <gam...@flash.net> wrote in article
>>
>> >> And what reactions are those? Are you saying the animals will revolt?
>> >> Some sort of "War Crimes" trial will be held?
>>
>> You will know when nature makes you suffer. There are three ways you
>> suffer the karmic reactions to your activities.
>>
>> Suffering that comes from your own body or mind, like disease and
>> insanity. Suffering that is imposed on you by other living entities,
>> like someone beating you up, mosquitoes etc., and suffering that comes
>> to you from nature in the form of natural catastrophies.
>>
>> These three fold miseries you will suffer to the same degree that you
>> inflict suffering on others.
>What right do you think you have to judge others? There is no God that
>condemns his followers. Only the religion that tells you to go judging
>others is really CRAP.
Don't be ridiculous. This was clearly not a judgement, but simply a
statement of facts. Everyone is suffering these three fold miseries.
How can you argue against it?
Staffan Nielsen
Ben Z.Tels
Christusjezus, people actually BELIEVE this?
--
Ben Z. Tels
B.Z....@stud.tue.nl
opti...@stack.nl
"The Earth is the cradle of the mind, but one cannot stay in the cradle
forever."
--Tsiolkovsky
Jahnu das <ja...@wineasy.se> wrote in article
<334d56c4...@news.wineasy.se>...
Cam Kirmser
Jahnu das wrote:
>
> On Tue, 08 Apr 1997 23:17:41 -0500, TonyVu <t...@sprintmail.com> wrote:
>
> >Jahnu das wrote:
> >>
> >> >Cam Kirmser <gam...@flash.net> wrote in article
> >>
> >> >> And what reactions are those? Are you saying the animals will revolt?
> >> >> Some sort of "War Crimes" trial will be held?
> >>
> >> You will know when nature makes you suffer. There are three ways you
> >> suffer the karmic reactions to your activities.
> >>
> >> insanity. Suffering that is imposed on you by other living entities,
> >> like someone beating you up, mosquitoes etc., and suffering that comes
> >> to you from nature in the form of natural catastrophies.
> >>
> >> These three fold miseries you will suffer to the same degree that you
> >> inflict suffering on others.
>
> >condemns his followers. Only the religion that tells you to go judging
> >others is really CRAP.
>
> Don't be ridiculous. This was clearly not a judgement, but simply a
> statement of facts. Everyone is suffering these three fold miseries.
> How can you argue against it?
>
> /Jahhnu
> www.users.wineasy.se/storm/
> www.krsna.com
>
> ¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤
> "Never was there a time when I did not exist,
> nor you, nor all these kings; nor in the future
> shall any of us cease to be."
> ¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤
>
> (Krishna to Arjuna before the battle)
Well, Krishna has nothing of value to tell me, nor does the entire
belief system built up around him. As I had said, I am not supporting
wanton slaughter, or just for the fun of it killing, but no amount of
animal deaths can come close to equaling the death of a human. Arrogant?
Hmm, could be, doesn't matter, I'm right.
Jen{wooble}
Ew, I hate to crosspost, and I probably should be emailing this, but,
hey, forgive my lack of netiquette today, will ya? :P
I *must* say that animals *do* think. Ever heard of Pavlov? (I believe
that's the spelling) .. if his dog wasn't thinking when the bell rang,
he'd be a hungry little doggie.
So, yeh, maybe they don't have deep thoughts about inner space but they
*do* know where the food bowl is. And that, in itself, does require a
teeeeensy bit of thinking, imho.
~Jen{wooble} Ding ding ding! ;)
--
EMAIL ME AT:
hall...@i-america.net
*
"Some people have a way with words.
Other people, oohhhhh, not have way!"
-- Steve Martin
*
~~~ งคงคง*h o m e p a g e*งคงคง ~~~
http://www.i-america.net/homepages/hally2000/
Staffan Nielsen
(I took the liberty of limiting the distribution of this article. I removed
alt.magic, alt.misc, alt.neo.tech, alt.non.sequitur, alt.paranormal,
alt.postmodern, alt.skateboard, alt.smokers, alt.startrek, alt.supermodels,
alt.surfing, alt.transgendered, alt.ufo.reports and alt.vacation.las-vegas
from the newsgroups to be posted to. Who put them there in the first place,
I wonder.)
Cam Kirmser (gam...@flash.net) wrote:
> belief system built up around him. As I had said, I am not supporting
> wanton slaughter, or just for the fun of it killing, but no amount of
> animal deaths can come close to equaling the death of a human. Arrogant?
> Hmm, could be, doesn't matter, I'm right.
It possibly feels right for you. But let us look at it in a larger
perspective. Not even the worst among us very often consider killing
themselves. That is deemed a bad thing by almost everyone. Next, you would
have to be really rotten/disturbed to kill your children or your siblings.
It is easier to consider killing those we are not related to. For instance,
my ancestors here in Scandinavia never thought it could be morally wrong to
kill the English, since they were mostly unrelated, so they did kill
Englishmen whenever they couldn't get the english gold in some more
convenient manner. With the arrival of Christianity we learned that all men
are brothers, and thus should not be killed, even if they are neither friends
nor related by blood. This is a historic example of moral growth.
The lowest form of morality is simply to think only of yourself, a little
higher is to also care for your family and friends. Higher still it is to
care for your tribe, your ethnic group or your nation. Even higher it is to
care for your entire species. Surely you must understand that a morality
that doesn't stop at that point, but also encompasses other species is even
higher than that.
S.
Jahnu das
On Thu, 10 Apr 1997 20:24:52 -0500, Cam Kirmser <gam...@flash.net>
wrote:
>
>Well, Krishna has nothing of value to tell me, nor does the entire
>belief system built up around him.
How would you know that?
>As I had said, I am not supporting
>wanton slaughter, or just for the fun of it killing, but no amount of
>animal deaths can come close to equaling the death of a human.
Who says?
> Arrogant?
I think so.
>Hmm, could be, doesn't matter, I'm right.
And this you know because of..?
/Jahhnu
www.shamantaka.org/index.html
Daron Myrick
I sometimes wish what you say is true, so that I could simply go into
noexistance when I die.
Would make suicide alot easier.
But, I feel as strong that there is a God, than you feel there isn't.
Should I call your science infallible and solid?
If so, then why is most of science theory and always seems to have
theoretical exceptions.
I'm afraid that what you hold on to for a foundation is just as weak, since
you are holding on only
to perceptions of men, which will always let you down and be distorded.
| Better than all this unscientific, unproven nonsense.
|
| Gods are a means of explaining what you don't understand, like lightning.
| From the time that natural phenomenon are understood by a people, the
only
| driving force of a religion is human; the divine ceases to exist.
Cam Kirmser
Jahnu das wrote:
>
> On 10 Apr 1997 13:37:11 GMT, "Ben Z.Tels" <opti...@stack.nl> wrote:
>
> >
> >Christusjezus, people actually BELIEVE this?
>
>
> What do you believe? That an amoeba grew legs and learned to talk?
>
> /Jahhnu
> www.shamantaka.org/index.html
> www.krsna.com
>
> ¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤
> "Never was there a time when I did not exist,
> nor you, nor all these kings; nor in the future
> shall any of us cease to be."
> ¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤
>
> (Krishna to Arjuna before the battle)
--
Hmm... Well, yeah, I do. Of course, you are condensing the process some,
but that's about right...
Cam Kirmser
Jahnu das wrote:
>
> On Thu, 10 Apr 1997 20:24:52 -0500, Cam Kirmser <gam...@flash.net>
> wrote:
>
> >
> >Well, Krishna has nothing of value to tell me, nor does the entire
> >belief system built up around him.
>
> How would you know that?
My belief system tells me so.
>
> >As I had said, I am not supporting
> >wanton slaughter, or just for the fun of it killing, but no amount of
> >animal deaths can come close to equaling the death of a human.
>
> Who says?
Hmm, to be of concern to me, only one needs to say, and that's me. Do
you put an animal's existance above a human's? Above your child's?
>
> > Arrogant?
>
> I think so.
Me, too...
>
> >Hmm, could be, doesn't matter, I'm right.
>
> And this you know because of..?
I have so deemed...
>
> /Jahhnu
> www.shamantaka.org/index.html
> www.krsna.com
>
> ¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤
> "Never was there a time when I did not exist,
> nor you, nor all these kings; nor in the future
> shall any of us cease to be."
> ¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤
>
> (Krishna to Arjuna before the battle)
My beliefs are mine. I'm not going to try to enforce them upon you, nor
will I accept yours upon me. I suppose the "rightness" of a belief
system will not be found out until one's death. I am satisfied in the
correctness of mine...
--
Ben Z.Tels
Better than all this unscientific, unproven nonsense.
Gods are a means of explaining what you don't understand, like lightning.
From the time that natural phenomenon are understood by a people, the only
driving force of a religion is human; the divine ceases to exist.
--
Ben Z. Tels
B.Z....@stud.tue.nl
opti...@stack.nl
"The Earth is the cradle of the mind, but one cannot stay in the cradle
forever."
--Tsiolkovsky
Jahnu das <ja...@wineasy.se> wrote in article
<3352cb68...@news.wineasy.se>...
David O'Bedlam
On Mon, 7 Apr 1997, Craig Brewer wrote:
> "Crap."
>
> Does that term denote a particular philosophical evaluation?
> Is it a type of fallacy?
It's a diagnosis of a delusion, in lay terms.
> Does it indicate that one's opponent has not fully
> understood the issue at hand?
It indicates that "one's opponent" lives in a fantasy world.
>Is it meant to suggest that one's own
> evaluation differs from that currently offered?
Definitely!
> Does it imply that one is speaking with another framework in mind?
Um, yeah!
> I suppose I'm afraid (although not necessarily convinced) that such
> a term says more about the user than the one whose argument it is
> intended to describe.
I suppose I'm afraid that you're full of, er, crap.
> It seems to suggest a kind of generalized dismissal of one's opponent's
> viewpoint,
Such a bright poster we have here!
TheDavid
Jahnu das
On Sun, 13 Apr 1997 15:40:28 -0500, Cam Kirmser <gam...@flash.net>
wrote:
>Jahnu das wrote:
>>
>> On Thu, 10 Apr 1997 20:24:52 -0500, Cam Kirmser <gam...@flash.net>
>> wrote:
>>
>> >
>> >Well, Krishna has nothing of value to tell me, nor does the entire
>> >belief system built up around him.
>>
>> How would you know that?
>
>My belief system tells me so.
That's your belief. I'm talking here about knowledge. How do you know
that Krishna has nothing of value to tell you.
>> >As I had said, I am not supporting
>> >wanton slaughter, or just for the fun of it killing, but no amount of
>> >animal deaths can come close to equaling the death of a human.
>>
>> Who says?
>
>Hmm, to be of concern to me, only one needs to say, and that's me. Do
>you put an animal's existance above a human's? Above your child's?
Not above. Equal to. In the Vedic philosophy it's explained that all
living entities have the same rights to pursue happiness and
enjoyment. If you, in your selfishness, infringe on those rights
you'll be punished by the laws of nature.
>> > Arrogant?
>>
>> I think so.
>
>Me, too...
Good. Then at least you are not in complete illusion.
>> >Hmm, could be, doesn't matter, I'm right.
>>
>> And this you know because of..?
>
>I have so deemed...
I'm sure Hitler and Stalin also deemed they were right. Did that make
them so?
>My beliefs are mine. I'm not going to try to enforce them upon you, nor
>will I accept yours upon me.
You don't have to. Nobody is forcing you to do anything. All I'm doing
is to present you with the Vedic point of view. The Vedic process is
an ancient system of knowledge that allows you to transcend mere
belief and become situated in reality.
> I suppose the "rightness" of a belief
>system will not be found out until one's death.
There is also the possibility of moving beyond belief and study
reality as it is by the Vedic process.
>I am satisfied in the
>correctness of mine...
Sure. A pig is also satisfied in his mud pool. But it is really a
waste of the human form of life to not explore our full potentiality.
It is explained in the Vedanta Sutra - atato brahma jijnasa - now, in
this human form of life, is the time to find out the absolute truth.
The other species do not have this opportunity. They are simply
satisfied with eating, sleeping, mating, and defending.
In the human form of life you have the chance to become enlightened
and gain real knowledge. Why not try for it? What could possibly be
the harm?
Knut Olav Fjellheim
Melissa Rhiannon Brookstone wrote:
>
> In article <01bc47e1$f15933e0$090142ce@darlyn1>,
> "Daron Myrick" <*dar...@airmail.net*> wrote:
> >I sometimes wish what you say is true, so that I could simply go into
> >noexistance when I die.
> >Would make suicide alot easier.
>
> piss it away. It seems to me like the people who fantasize about a better
> life in the "hereafter" are the ones who can toss this one away the
> easiest.
>
Apparently people who claim to have peeked into an afterlife through
NDEs frequently report that their attitude towards life has changed.
After these experiences they claim that they live more in the moment
and take better care of their time on earth. Them again I have heard
similar statements from people who have almost died (with no NDE), so
perhaps it has more to do with the realization that live does not last
forever.
> >But, I feel as strong that there is a God, than you feel there isn't.
> >Should I call your science infallible and solid?
>
> Don't confuse feelings with science. Science deals with provable fact.
> Feelings can be based on fantasy, schizophrenia, random whims or even just
> eating too much. Since when are feelings based on fact?
>
I think science has more to do with repeatable observations than
'provable
facts'. As far as I can see it is not possible to prove anything beyond
any doubt, and that includes the sciences. The way sciences evolve, as I
see things, are that a need to explain some phenomena arises. The
scientists
collect observations, and then sit and scratch their heads until they
have
written a nice theory that accounts for the observations. 'Recently'
Popper's
falsification principle has become commonly accepted as the standard for
good scientific theories: a theory is only scientific when it is
possible
to prove wrong. In other words: No scientific theory is ever proven to
be
correct, only proven to correspond to the observable phenomena (and to
what
degree can we trust them?)
> >If so, then why is most of science theory and always seems to have
> >theoretical exceptions.
>
> Oh bull. If you jump out of a plane without a parachute and hit a
> concrete area you're dead. Science & fact. Play all the semantic or
> religious belief games you want but science is not the same as belief.
Actually there was a British pilot that was shot down during WW2. He was
a gunner in a large bomber, and had no parachute. He jumped from the
plane
at several thousand feet altitude, fell down, through the branches of a
large tree, and landed in some small bushes on the ground, almost
without
injuries. His story was so strange that it took the Germans a long time
before they believed that he was not a spy.
Knut
Paul Richards
Why, you ask? BECAUSE THEY ARE TOO STOOOOPID TO LIMIT THEIR
CROSSPOSTING TO THE RELEVANT GROUPS!!! PLEASE learn how to use
Usenet before you abuse it, you fucking dimwits.
Melissa Rhiannon Brookstone
Stop posting this off topic bullshit in alt.transgendered!!!
In article <3352d96...@news.wineasy.se>,
- Melissa
If you actually read my post, are not a spammer just harvesting names for your trash junk mail,
and if you'd like to reply by email, please remove the XXX out of my email address in the address listed
before sending it to me. Thanks.
Unconstitutional Government Hate Crime Of The Decade!
The Colorado State Legislature Is Trying To Ban Our Presently Legal Marriage!
Read all about it! :
http://www.asupernet.com/~melissa/marriage.htm
http://www.asupernet.com/~melissa/
http://www.asupernet.com/~melissa/wpdsgn.htm
http://www.asupernet.com/~melissa/melissas.htm
Personal opinions I express are not necessarily those of the organizations I may be doing volunteer work for.
Abusive email may be posted.
Please don't send me email copies of your follow ups to my posts unless I request it.
David O'Bedlam
On Mon, 14 Apr 1997, Jahnu das wrote:
> The Vedic process is an ancient system of knowledge that allows you
> to transcend mere belief and become situated in reality.
What could a Hare Krishna possibly know about reality?
Sheesh.
TheDavid
--
"Spare the tire iron, | This Post Copyright (C) 1997 TheDavid, UnLtd.
spoil the people." | http://www.clark.net/pub/thedavid/trythis.html
David O'Bedlam
On Mon, 14 Apr 1997, Jahnu das wrote:
>
> Explain to me then why some are suffering more than others, why some
> are rich, some are poor, some are ugly, some are handsome, some are
> stupid,some are intelligent etc.
It's called "the luck of the draw" in common parlance. Unless of
course you want me to quote from Marx's "Selected Writings", or
ask you to define what you mean by "rich", "poor", ugly", "hand-
some", "stupid", and "intelligent", or explain to me why you've
insisted on being such a protein-starved fuckwit.
Raven Storm
check out the Temple Of Azgar, coming soon to a world near you!
Ben Z.Tels <opti...@stack.nl> wrote in article
<01bc49ec$30ca3900$0447...@BZTcomputer.iaehv.iaehv.nl>...
> That it looks a lot better after chewing certain leaves.
>
> And also that life stinks if you are the poor man and he is the rich man.
> --
> Ben Z. Tels
> B.Z....@stud.tue.nl
> opti...@stack.nl
>
> "The Earth is the cradle of the mind, but one cannot stay in the cradle
> forever."
> --Tsiolkovsky
>
> 'David O'Bedlam' <thed...@clark.net> wrote in article
Raven Storm
probably a lot more than you do asshole!
'David O'Bedlam' <thed...@clark.net> wrote in article
<Pine.GSO.3.96.970415...@clark.net>...
> On Mon, 14 Apr 1997, Jahnu das wrote:
>
> > The Vedic process is an ancient system of knowledge that allows you
> > to transcend mere belief and become situated in reality.
>
> What could a Hare Krishna possibly know about reality?
>
> Sheesh.
Raven Storm
check out the Temple Of Azghar, coming soon to a world near you!
'David O'Bedlam' <thed...@clark.net> wrote in article
<Pine.GSO.3.96.970415...@clark.net>...
> On Mon, 14 Apr 1997, Jahnu das wrote:
>
> >
> > Explain to me then why some are suffering more than others, why some
> > are rich, some are poor, some are ugly, some are handsome, some are
> > stupid,some are intelligent etc.
>
> It's called "the luck of the draw" in common parlance. Unless of
> course you want me to quote from Marx's "Selected Writings", or
> ask you to define what you mean by "rich", "poor", ugly", "hand-
> some", "stupid", and "intelligent", or explain to me why you've
> insisted on being such a protein-starved fuckwit.
>
>
david skreiner
Jahnu das wrote:
> On 13 Apr 1997 12:32:13 GMT, "Ben Z.Tels" <opti...@stack.nl> wrote:
> >Better than all this unscientific, unproven nonsense.
> Oh, you mean the theory of evolution? The Big Bang? What are you
> talking about?
I'm rather sure he was talking about your weird theories of
human and chicken being of equal value, your strange belief
in some supernatural force called "Karma", and the fact that
you're preaching too much.
> >Gods are a means of explaining what you don't understand, like lightning.
>
> You haven't the faintest idea what causes lightning. As far as you are
> concerned lightning could very well be God throwing thunder bolts.
You are partly right: The project of modernist thinking, which attempted
to find _the_ scientific explanation of _everything_, has failed. The
mechanisms involved in weather are immensely complex; we have found out
what causes lightning (something called "electricity"). We cannot yet -
I
presume - say exactly when and where lightning will hit, though. I am
sure you have heard before of quantum physics: All we have there is
nodels
of how these subatomic particles might work like, but not _the_ ultimate
formula that explains _everything_.
This does not, however, make the explanation that a "God" is "throwing"
thunderbolts any more likely. The assumption that a strange paranormal
force (which only you and your cult can recognize and use) underlies
all things and causes everything in the world is not likely either.
(Don't tell me you "know" it's "the Truth". There is no "Truth",
belief is everything. Everything you think you _know_ is just -
you guessed it - what you believe.)
> >From the time that natural phenomenon are understood by a people,
>
> What is understood? You don't even understand what makes gravity. All
> you did was give it a name.
You don't understand what makes gravity either - faces with an
incomprehensible universe, you took the easiest path and started
following a group of nice people (no doubt, cult recruiters can
be sickeningly nice). They told you how everything could make sense,
if you followed their rules and (presumably) paid them money.
You were interested at first, then intrigued; you started studying
their teachings, reading the cult's equivalent of a bible and, I
have little doubt, books by others telling you how to read _that_.
Now, you _know_ how the world makes sense. This is a good feeling,
especially since there's so many dumb idiots out there who havent't
seen The Light yet. But you are among those who _know_.
You were weak-willed enough to be lured into the conceit of cognitivism.
> > the only
> >driving force of a religion is human; the divine ceases to exist.
> Really? How come still the majority of the people are religious
> despite the socalled scientific explanation of things?
a) Religion, just like yours, is the "Opium of the Masses":
It takes your mind off the pressing problems of the real
world and allows you to concentrate on your "eternal salvation"
in some illusionary world. You see, instead of examining why
people have to die on the streets every day, or why children
get fucked or beaten up or get addicted to crack, or even
just why the "Third World" is in such a mess,...
You cling to a concept of some divine energy and talk about
animals being as important as humans - a chicken, lying in
clingfoil in a supermarket, as important as a baby human?
b) Ideology is slow to change. We are moving slowly towards
a new order of society; religion exists only because it has
for thousands of years, and is deeply ingrained in our society.
If you examine the workings of a society's structure and the
ideologies of its people, you will see that the absolute
belief in hierarchy found in the middle ages encouraged or
aided monarchies. The protestant revolution, to some extent,
helped trigger early capitalism (cf. Max Weber). Both of these
are still important in the structure of our society, just as
it is our society that has shaped our belief systems.
Your cult does the opposite of the "enculturation" that most
people undergo when in churches: Meeting people who belong
to a culture, learning that culture's ways, beliefs, and
ways of behaviour.
You are in a fringe group. You probably have to wear a weird
haircut or strange clothes, right? This will reinforce your
sense of belonging to this fringe group, while at the same time
shaping your appearance and ideology until you are basically
incompatible with the "mainstream". You probably get strange
stares from people, and bask in your self-righteousness. As
you are getting older, you will feel more and more at home in
the cult, and less at home anywhere else. When they send you
out o make money, you'll have to offer people "Vedic
translations" or "vegetarian food" in the street because
you're too fucked-up inside to function in normal society.
Have fun! You'll need it. Especially when you don't make enough
money or recruit enough fresh meat to be allowed to stay in
the cult. Think about it.
dave
+------------------------------------------------------------------+
"We want females, as a rule. If it's a male, we just castrate it and
sell it for meat in Chicago." (G. Stranahan, Colorado beef rancher)
+------------------------------------------------------------------+
da...@htu.tu-graz.ac.at David Skreiner
Jahnu das
On Tue, 15 Apr 1997 12:35:24 -0400, 'David O'Bedlam' wrote:
>What could a Hare Krishna possibly know about reality?
How could _you_ possibly know about reality? And how could you
possibly know what a Hare Krishna knows? Tss.
Jahnu das
On 15 Apr 1997 22:27:08 GMT, "Ben Z.Tels" <opti...@stack.nl> wrote:
>That it looks a lot better after chewing certain leaves.
That problem with the leaves is that it doesn't keep looking good.
>And also that life stinks if you are the poor man and he is the rich man.
That's right. So better act in such a way that you won't have to
suffer from poverty in the future.
Steve Moody
> UFO's don't excist at all it is just some strange thing in your mind, you
> want to get some attention and therefor you say that you have seen a
> strange thing in the sky ** GRINN ** GET REAL !!!
UFO stands for Unidentified Flying Object. If you see an object that is
flying, and you cannot indentify it, then by definition, it is a UFO.
Melissa Rhiannon Brookstone
Stop spamming this crap in alt.tg!Stop spamming this crap in alt.tg!Stop
spamming this crap in alt.tg!Stop spamming this crap in alt.tg!Stop
spamming this crap in alt.tg!Stop spamming this crap in alt.tg!Stop
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spamming this crap in alt.tg!Stop spamming this crap in alt.tg!
In article <335526...@pinko.com>,
Fellow Traveller <co...@pinko.com> wrote:
>the smell of cheese and the flavor of cheese
>are related but different.
>
>
>
>-blah blah blah blah blah blah
>--blah blah blah blah blah...
>---blah blah blah blah....
Melissa Rhiannon Brookstone
Quit spamming this crap in alt.transgendered!!!!
Quit spamming this crap in alt.transgendered!!!!
Quit spamming this crap in alt.transgendered!!!!
Quit spamming this crap in alt.transgendered!!!!
Quit spamming this crap in alt.transgendered!!!!
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Quit spamming this crap in alt.transgendered!!!!
Quit spamming this crap in alt.transgendered!!!!
Quit spamming this crap in alt.transgendered!!!!
Quit spamming this crap in alt.transgendered!!!!
Quit spamming this crap in alt.transgendered!!!!
Quit spamming this crap in alt.transgendered!!!!
Quit spamming this crap in alt.transgendered!!!!
Quit spamming this crap in alt.transgendered!!!!
Quit spamming this crap in alt.transgendered!!!!
Quit spamming this crap in alt.transgendered!!!!
In article <Pine.GSO.3.96.970415...@clark.net>,
'David O'Bedlam' <thed...@clark.net> wrote:
>On Mon, 14 Apr 1997, Jahnu das wrote:
>
>> The Vedic process is an ancient system of knowledge that allows you
>> to transcend mere belief and become situated in reality.
>
>What could a Hare Krishna possibly know about reality?
>
>Sheesh.
>
>TheDavid
Stig Arne Bye
Ahhh....
So if I see a fly and I don't know kind of fly that it, i.e. I can't
identify it, then it's a UFO according to the definition....
No wonder why there are so many observations of UFO's .... ;-)
Stig Arne Bye
Kirkenes, Norway
************************************************************************
Located just about 70°N 30°E - Almost at the top of the world!
************************************************************************
Melissa Rhiannon Brookstone
Stop spamming this crap in alt.tg!
In article <01bc49ea$92850fa0$0447...@BZTcomputer.iaehv.iaehv.nl>,
"Ben Z.Tels" <opti...@stack.nl> wrote:
>The fundamental point of science is a search for truth. One cannot lie
>about it without being caught. And what one knows and can prove to be
true,
>must be true, without exception.
>
>However, if divinity is in truth humanity in a hidden form, then religion
>is a lie.
>
>It is all in the way you look at it.
Melissa Rhiannon Brookstone
Stop spamming this crap in alt.tg!
In article <01bc49ec$30ca3900$0447...@BZTcomputer.iaehv.iaehv.nl>,
"Ben Z.Tels" <opti...@stack.nl> wrote:
>That it looks a lot better after chewing certain leaves.
>
>And also that life stinks if you are the poor man and he is the rich man.
- Melissa
Melissa Rhiannon Brookstone
Stop spamming this crap in alt.tg!Stop spamming this crap in alt.tg!Stop
spamming this crap in alt.tg!Stop spamming this crap in alt.tg!Stop
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In article <335d21ad...@news.wineasy.se>,
ja...@wineasy.se (Jahnu das) wrote:
>On Tue, 15 Apr 1997 12:35:24 -0400, 'David O'Bedlam' wrote:
>
>>What could a Hare Krishna possibly know about reality?
>
>How could _you_ possibly know about reality? And how could you
>possibly know what a Hare Krishna knows? Tss.
>
>
>/Jahhnu
>www.shamantaka.org/index.html
>www.krsna.com
>
>¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤
>"Never was there a time when I did not exist,
>nor you, nor all these kings; nor in the future
>shall any of us cease to be."
>¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤
>
>(Krishna to Arjuna before the battle)
>
- Melissa
Melissa Rhiannon Brookstone
Stop spamming this crap in alt.tg!Stop spamming this crap in alt.tg!Stop
spamming this crap in alt.tg!Stop spamming this crap in alt.tg!Stop
spamming this crap in alt.tg!Stop spamming this crap in alt.tg!Stop
spamming this crap in alt.tg!Stop spamming this crap in alt.tg!Stop
spamming this crap in alt.tg!Stop spamming this crap in alt.tg!Stop
spamming this crap in alt.tg!
In article <335e2216...@news.wineasy.se>,
ja...@wineasy.se (Jahnu das) wrote:
>On 15 Apr 1997 22:27:08 GMT, "Ben Z.Tels" <opti...@stack.nl> wrote:
>
>>That it looks a lot better after chewing certain leaves.
>
>That problem with the leaves is that it doesn't keep looking good.
>
>>And also that life stinks if you are the poor man and he is the rich
man.
>
>That's right. So better act in such a way that you won't have to
>suffer from poverty in the future.
>
Jeremy
Steve Moody wrote:
>
> > UFO's don't excist at all it is just some strange thing in your mind, you
> > want to get some attention and therefor you say that you have seen a
> > strange thing in the sky ** GRINN ** GET REAL !!!
>
> UFO stands for Unidentified Flying Object. If you see an object that is
> flying, and you cannot indentify it, then by definition, it is a UFO.
UFOs exsist it's Alien visitation that I doubt.
FoX