ARROGANT AMERICANS
DGVREIMAN
ARROGANT AMERICANS
Most Americans are perceived in Europe as arrogant. The Europeans
that have never lived in America cannot understand why Americans
always act so superior. There are a few reasons:
Americans for the most part view Europe as a place that would not
exist today without American support. Americans witnessed the
incredible blunders of the French and British during WWI and WWII
(Verdun, Dieppe, Dunkirk, Holland, Maginot Line, deals with
Hitler, Vichy France, Serbia, Bosnia, El Duce, Franco, Adolph
Hitler, Communism, etc . . . etc . . . ) And more recently, the
wanton slaughter in Bosnia and Serbia again. Once again, America
to the rescue.
To Americans, Europeans are not the brightest people in the
world. In fact, they seem incredibly backward to the American
middle class, and incapable of even defending themselves. Their
Military leaders were laughing stock, and the shortest book in
the world is the list of Italian/French war heroes.
If there is a battle to be lost, a country to be surrendered, it
seems the Europeans will find a way to do it, and then whine
because America did not help them recover what they lost fast
enough . . ( with American blood of course).
Nothing is ever mentioned how American young men are manning the
ramparts of Europe to this very day. Had there been a war with
Russia, those were the men that would have fell first, while the
Europeans would have no doubt drudged up their white flags from
their war chests.
Even today we maintain Europe's defenses with American troops and
bases at a tremendous cost to America . . . while those nations
we defend enjoy budgets that do not necessitate a major defense
bite. That means Europeans can enjoy domestic benefits that
Americans cannot afford, but even then, the Europeans manage to
screw it up!
Consider National Health as a classic example: I realize Canada
is not European, but they might as well be for all the terrible
economy, high unemployment and pathetic health care they provide
their citizens. France, Britain and especially Ireland fare no
better, Portugal, Spain and the Netherlands are so backward they
remind me of Southern Mississippi, USA.
Yet since 911 and thousands of Americans were massacred, where
are the Europeans? Dancing and dodging. Also, although we were
the one that was attacked, and we are the primary target for
Saddam's weapons of mass destruction, who does the UN appoint as
chief Inspector? Duh, Hans, Duh, Blix. Remember him? He was the
"genius European" that was the chief of the IAEC that inspected
Iraq's Nuclear program and proclaimed Iraq did not possess any
nuclear materials. Duh. Then after the American and British
inspectors went into Iraq after the Gulf war and found not less
than 100 pounds of enriched Uranium (enough to make 10 Nuclear
fission bombs) ol Hans said, "Well, wadda you know...Duh. Now,
the fate of thousands of Americans rest in the hands of this
European idiot? Once again, it appears that we are going to take
it on the chin so some "Seargeant Shultz" (I see nothing, I hear
nothing, I know nothing) can parade around and appear superior to
the Yankees. (Someone should place a Clown hat and floppy shoes
on Mr. Blix and watch him run around the streets of Baghdad for
all the good he will do America...at least this clown would be
seen for what he really is.)
We also find ourselves bewildered at the so-called "United
Nations" that keeps passing resolution after resolution against
Israel while the Palestinians keep sending over murder bombers
after murder bombers to murder innocent Israelis. It's like those
UN fools cannot hear the explosions? So what do they do?
They send some fool into the Palestinian area to work with the
Palestinians. The Palestinians shoot at some Israeli soldiers,
and when the Israelis shoot back the UN guy gets killed. Now the
UN is howling and screaming, holding meetings, proclaiming
investigations, and using good ol American money to launch a
complete investigation into this unfortunate but understandable
accident.....yet hundreds of innocent Israelis are being murdered
on buses, in their beds and Israeli children are being
specifically targeted by the Palestinian goons, and what does the
UN do? Absolutely nothing.
One UN operative is where he should not be, gets himself killed
as a result, and the UN rolls out the guard and declares
investigative war on Israel. Meanwhile thousands of innocent
Israelis are murdered or maimed and the UN "averts its eyes" and
passes yet another half baked, half thought-out, well paid by the
Arab league, outrageous resolution against Israel? If Americans
did not know better, we would believe the UN thinks it is the
Israelis sending in the murder bombers and not the Palestinian
terrorists!
From the birth of our nation we have either been fighting the
Europeans, or sending our young men to die for them. Just once I
would like to see some appreciation, some empathy for the attacks
on America, and some loyalty to the preservation of the leader of
the free world by a solid European Union.
America should not need to "go a begging" for European support to
defend our country. The European nations should be scrambling to
support us. They should be grateful, and loyal, and as willing to
help the cause of freedom in America as America was in Europe all
these many centuries.
I guess that is why Americans feel a bit arrogant when it comes
to Europeans. We cannot ever think of anything good that has
happened to our nation that originated from Europe - except
perhaps the people that knew enough to escape from it and came
here.
Doug Grant (Tm)
Da Only One
"DGVREIMAN" <dgg...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:BKzE9.31636$hK4.2...@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
Max Khesin
--
========================================
Max Khesin, software developer -
m...@cNvOiSsPiAoMntech.com
[check out our image compression software at www.cvisiontech.com, JBIG2-PDF
compression @
www.cvisiontech.com/cvistapdf.html]
"DGVREIMAN" <dgg...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:BKzE9.31636$hK4.2...@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
>
>
who
Fool
The reasons (aside from political & ecconomic totalitarianism) should be
obvious if you read back over your post.
The USA doing its part in WW2 (which - wake up baby - was not won
exclusively by thee) does not give it divine right dictate military
policy to the other free nations of the world. If your population wasn't
so saturated in its own self-righteous propaganda, you might even have
cause to doubt your government's forgein policies, as many Europeans
rightly do. Increasingly it seems that America's traditional virtues
(freedom of speech, the right to question authority, tollerance) are
being forgotten in what appears to be a pragmatic response to a tough
situation, but if followed to its conclusion, will bring about your
doom.
Bush has stated that the USA will never again allow itself to be
equalled as a military or ecconomic power. If you can't take a step back
and see the underlying threat in that statement, you should really have
a big think about it before you post again.
Newba...@cjp.net
Outstanding post! I have always found it funny how liberals always
seem to want to point to Europe as an example of how Americans should
live. Government controlled healthcare etc.......
Newbaum
P. Dribble
"DGVREIMAN" <dgg...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:BKzE9.31636$hK4.2...@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
>
>
Psycho Psycho
> seems the Europeans will find a way to do it, and then whine
> because America did not help them recover what they lost fast
> enough . . ( with American blood of course).
>
<<snip snip snip>>
America's record is so replete with victories, isn't it. Except Bay of
Pigs, Somalia, Vietnam (that was a truce, a truce!!!), War of 1812 (they did
NOT burn down our White House!!) . . .
> Nothing is ever mentioned how American young men are manning the
> ramparts of Europe to this very day. Had there been a war with
> Russia, those were the men that would have fell first, while the
> Europeans would have no doubt drudged up their white flags from
> their war chests.
Consider that America had to be dragged, several years late, into WWI,
several years late into WWII, and that plenty of corporate America was
outright collaborating with the Nazi regime (Prescott Bush for one,
grandaddy of Dubya), your premise is nauseating.
> Consider National Health as a classic example: I realize Canada
> is not European, but they might as well be for all the terrible
> economy, high unemployment and pathetic health care they provide
> their citizens. France, Britain and especially Ireland fare no
> better, Portugal, Spain and the Netherlands are so backward they
> remind me of Southern Mississippi, USA.
>
Never let a few facts interfere with a good argument. It appears this fella
knows little or squat about Canada. Our economy avoided recession. His is
still in one. Our budget surplus is healthy. His was pissed away in record
time.
> We also find ourselves bewildered at the so-called "United
> Nations" that keeps passing resolution after resolution against
> Israel while the Palestinians keep sending over murder bombers
> after murder bombers to murder innocent Israelis. It's like those
> UN fools cannot hear the explosions? So what do they do?
>
Try to maintain objectivity while condemning crimes on both sides, actually.
> From the birth of our nation we have either been fighting the
> Europeans, or sending our young men to die for them. Just once I
> would like to see some appreciation, some empathy for the attacks
> on America, and some loyalty to the preservation of the leader of
> the free world by a solid European Union.
>
You have perfectly phrased the sort of arrogance that every non-American is
getting tired of hearing. Bravo.
> America should not need to "go a begging" for European support to
> defend our country. The European nations should be scrambling to
> support us. They should be grateful, and loyal, and as willing to
> help the cause of freedom in America as America was in Europe all
> these many centuries.
"Loyal" as puppy dog (Blair), scrambling like, like, hmmm, who are your
friends again? Gimme a week or two , I'll think of some more.
You see people, this is what passes for thinking and analysis in mainstream
USA. A mixture of wounded pride, vengefulness, peevish whigning and massive
exaggeration. Kind of reminds me of Stalinist Russia with less style.
Rick Carlsen
Cheers,
Rick
"DGVREIMAN" <dgg...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:BKzE9.31636$hK4.2...@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
>
>
Baudolino
reason for the American Arrogance. They are in SIXTH place! Wake up
Americans, it's not the 1950s anymore, it's the 21 century. Things are
changing, in Europe probably faster than the US. Ans as I told you before
Doug, In Canada 100% of the population has access to necesary drugs, in the
US that's 99%
It speaks volumes that you always stop contributing to a discussion as soon
as numbers and references are used.
A shorter book than the European war heroes is probably the list with
American inventions. Besides pizza with pineapple, what's more on that list?
"DGVREIMAN" <dgg...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:BKzE9.31636$hK4.2...@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
>
>
SnowDog
news:02BE9.80774$uw6.1...@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...> Just check
> American inventions. Besides pizza with pineapple, what's more on that
list?
Electricity, bifocals, the cotton gin, the harmonica, the telephone, the
telegraph, the light bulb, the bomb, the moon walk (literally), rock and
roll, the blues, bar-b-que, the laser...
--
"Still one thing more, fellow citizens--a wise and frugal Government, which
shall restrain men from injuring one another, shall leave them otherwise
free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall
not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned. This is the sum of
good government, and this is necessary to close the circle of our
felicities."
-Thomas Jefferson: 1st Inaugural, 1801
FUBAR
that Europe is beautiful and full of wonderful traditions and people.
However, the lack of appreciation of American "rescue" missions over the
years is disheartening. England has stood by us most of the way. The
French make me sick. Everyone else is a little in between. I believe it
is just plain old jealous envy.
Jim McCulloch
DGVREIMAN at dgg...@worldnet.att.net wrote on 11/25/02 7:02 PM:
>
>
> ARROGANT AMERICANS
>
> Most Americans are perceived in Europe as arrogant. The Europeans
> that have never lived in America cannot understand why Americans
> always act so superior. There are a few reasons:
I doubt if Europeans by and large think Americans are superior, whether or
not Americans believe themselves so or not. On the other hand, arrogance is
very commensurate with stupidity, but, when arrogance is startlingly at odds
with reality, arrogance transcends itself by providing the kind of horrified
amusement to spectators that .
Let us examine, and appreciate, how startlingly at odds with reality Doug's
post is.
> Americans for the most part view Europe as a place that would not
> exist today without American support.
Some 16 European countries benefited from the Marshall Plan, primarily
Britain, France, Italy, W. Germany, and Holland (in order of total
benefits), and there may even today be a residue of good will towards the
United States because of this act of benevolent self-interest on our part.
However, it makes little sense to say that Europe as a place (however
metaphorically you wish to construe this) would not exist today without
American support.
> Americans witnessed the
> incredible blunders of the French and British during WWI and WWII
> (Verdun, Dieppe, Dunkirk, Holland, Maginot Line, deals with
> Hitler, Vichy France, Serbia, Bosnia, El Duce, Franco, Adolph
> Hitler, Communism, etc . . . etc . . . ) And more recently, the
> wanton slaughter in Bosnia and Serbia again. Once again, America
> to the rescue.
Wars are often foolish. Our only intelligence on the international stage has
been in staying out of large international wars, up until World War One,
when we began to join in the common foolishness; now, of course, we believe
we can use our technological superiority to fight in the future what in
American English we will call bloodless war, since we intend, much as other
imperial powers of the past who imagined a permanent strategic or
technological superiority, to fight wars with involve only the blood of
others. This intention is certainly arrogant, and may be a prelude to one of
the "incredible blunders" like those you mentioned above, which all were
predicated on certainties hardly more foolish, except in retrospect, than
our own.
And don't forget Vietnam, Doug.
> To Americans, Europeans are not the brightest people in the
> world.
Um, perhaps we are not looking at their best and brightest. I vaguely recall
that Mr. Einstein, Mr. Planck, Mr. Bohr, Mr. Fermi, and Mr. Heisenberg, all
as one small example in one small area of human endeavor, were Europeans,
and modern Europeans at that. This kind of thing can be elaborated on in
other areas, but I won't belabor the point.
>In fact, they seem incredibly backward to the American
> middle class,
See above, except the addendum that the American middle class has not
hitherto in human history truly distinguished itself at much of anything
except an astonishing propensity to obesity and a very shortsighted
dependence on foreign oil.
>and incapable of even defending themselves.
Odd, that you would construe the lack of that at which every schoolyard
bully excels, as backwardness. One would think that military prowess and
backwardness are unrelated qualities--if one were rational, perhaps.
>Their
> Military leaders were laughing stock,
Actually, I think some of the campaigns of European generals, including some
modern ones, are studied even now in our own military academies.
>and the shortest book in
> the world is the list of Italian/French war heroes.
This is very stupid, Doug, and, (need I mention it?) profoundly arrogant.
The soldiers who died bravely at Verdun, in numbers Americans can't even
imagine, were for the most part, um, European, and about half of them
French. To extend this a little, the soldiers who saved Churchill's, and
our, bacon at Stalingrad, were Russian, and _all_ the soldiers who died
bravely at Stalingrad, in numbers Americans can't even imagine, were, um,
European. AFAIK not an American among them. To come back to the French in
WWII, I am afraid that you confuse losing, through being outgunned and
out-generaled (but wait, that can't be, the Germans are Europeans, and their
generals were a laughinstock--I forgot), with being cowardly. American
soldiers in WWII, when surrounded and defeated, very readily surrendered.
Indeed some of them, like General MacArthur, ran away after being defeated.
So it is hard to see what you could possibly be talking about.
> If there is a battle to be lost, a country to be surrendered, it
> seems the Europeans will find a way to do it, and then whine
> because America did not help them recover what they lost fast
> enough . . ( with American blood of course).
With American blood? I guess you have never really looked at the casualty
figures for WWI and for WWII. Do so, and you will be more humble.
> Nothing is ever mentioned how American young men are manning the
> ramparts of Europe to this very day. Had there been a war with
> Russia, those were the men that would have fell first, while the
> Europeans would have no doubt drudged up their white flags from
> their war chests.
Actually, our military presence in Europe sprang from 2 sources, our
perceived self interest in keeping the Russians at bay, and an unwillingness
to entrust the defense of Germany to the Germans--an unwillingness hardly
sprung from a view of German incompetence or cowardice.
>... Europeans can enjoy domestic benefits that
> Americans cannot afford, but even then, the Europeans manage to
> screw it up!
>
> Consider National Health as a classic example: I realize Canada
> is not European, but they might as well be for all the terrible
> economy, high unemployment and pathetic health care they provide
> their citizens.
Strange. The Canadians seem very unwilling to abandon the pathetic health
care they provide their citizens.
>France, Britain and especially Ireland fare no
> better, Portugal, Spain and the Netherlands are so backward they
> remind me of Southern Mississippi, USA.
Have you ever been to Europe, Doug? More to the point, were you smoking
crack while you were there?
> Yet since 911 and thousands of Americans were massacred, where
> are the Europeans? Dancing and dodging.
If you are trying to say that they were dancing in the streets about 911,
thqt is quite incorrect. Most Europeans at that moment were on our side.
Since then, of course, Mr. Bush and his axis of imbecility have certainly
managed to squander that sympathy and good will, if nothing else through
gratuitous insults to our allies, and through a profound arrogance.
>Also, although we were
> the one that was attacked, and we are the primary target for
> Saddam's weapons of mass destruction, who does the UN appoint as
> chief Inspector? Duh, Hans, Duh, Blix. Remember him? He was the
> "genius European" that was the chief of the IAEC that inspected
> Iraq's Nuclear program and proclaimed Iraq did not possess any
> nuclear materials. Duh. Then after the American and British
> inspectors went into Iraq after the Gulf war and found not less
> than 100 pounds of enriched Uranium (enough to make 10 Nuclear
> fission bombs) ol Hans said, "Well, wadda you know...Duh. Now,
> the fate of thousands of Americans rest in the hands of this
> European idiot? Once again, it appears that we are going to take
> it on the chin so some "Seargeant Shultz" (I see nothing, I hear
> nothing, I know nothing) can parade around and appear superior to
> the Yankees. (Someone should place a Clown hat and floppy shoes
> on Mr. Blix and watch him run around the streets of Baghdad for
> all the good he will do America...at least this clown would be
> seen for what he really is.)
Doug, there must be some sort of medication for this.
> We also find ourselves bewildered at the so-called "United
> Nations" that keeps passing resolution after resolution against
> Israel while the Palestinians keep sending over murder bombers
> after murder bombers to murder innocent Israelis. It's like those
> UN fools cannot hear the explosions? So what do they do?
You're losing focus here Doug. You're having a tantrum.
> They send some fool into the Palestinian area to work with the
> Palestinians. The Palestinians shoot at some Israeli soldiers,
> and when the Israelis shoot back the UN guy gets killed. Now the
> UN is howling and screaming, holding meetings, proclaiming
> investigations, and using good ol American money to launch a
> complete investigation into this unfortunate but understandable
> accident.....yet hundreds of innocent Israelis are being murdered
> on buses, in their beds and Israeli children are being
> specifically targeted by the Palestinian goons, and what does the
> UN do? Absolutely nothing.
You're losing it, Doug. All of a sudden you're ranting at the UN because the
Israelis killed one of their emissaries. Has it occurred to you that you
might be mentally ill?
> One UN operative is where he should not be, gets himself killed
> as a result, and the UN rolls out the guard and declares
> investigative war on Israel. Meanwhile thousands of innocent
> Israelis are murdered or maimed and the UN "averts its eyes" and
> passes yet another half baked, half thought-out, well paid by the
> Arab league, outrageous resolution against Israel? If Americans
> did not know better, we would believe the UN thinks it is the
> Israelis sending in the murder bombers and not the Palestinian
> terrorists!
>
> From the birth of our nation we have either been fighting the
> Europeans, or sending our young men to die for them.
Well, that's a bit of an exaggeration, now, isn't it? They only war we ever
fought with European level casualties was against ourselves. The Europeans,
for better or worse, seem to have been dying on their own behalf in numbers
that make our own contributions seem paltry.
>Just once I
> would like to see some appreciation, some empathy for the attacks
> on America,
You saw it, and then you saw the Mr Bush lose it.
>and some loyalty to the preservation of the leader of
> the free world by a solid European Union.
The United States was not, as far as I, or any European, or any rational
person in the universe knows, elected "leader of the free world". We are
the most militarily powerful country in the world at the present time. That
is all. Military power does not necessarily translate into leadership.
Certainly in Mr. Bush's hands it does not.
> America should not need to "go a begging" for European support to
> defend our country. The European nations should be scrambling to
> support us. They should be grateful, and loyal, and as willing to
> help the cause of freedom in America as America was in Europe all
> these many centuries.
All these many centuries? What "many centuries" are these, that we have
been helping the cause of freedom in Europe? This is delusional thinking,
Doug. Get help.
Best regards,
--Jim McCulloch
FUBAR
Your "Canadian" facts are STUPID. If Canada had to defend itself and
spend "BILLIONS" on protecting it's borders rather than lean on your
neighbor "AMERICA" to your south, you in Canada would suffer budget
problems also. Canada is like a big stinking wart on America's ass
sucking off our defense and economy and you claim your "Budget" is
healthy? Try defending yourself against a "REAL" military without
America guarding your backdoor moose humper. Canada would be obliterated
frozen brain boy. Your budget "surplus" is due to American military
protection and our economy on your doorstep. If located anywhere else
geographically Canada would be a banana republic eating shit.
Rick Carlsen
"Fool" <nob...@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:3DE2E476...@nowhere.com...
> Americans are perceived as arrogant in many quarters, not only Europe.
> The reasons (aside from political & ecconomic totalitarianism) should be
> obvious if you read back over your post.
>
> The USA doing its part in WW2 (which - wake up baby - was not won
> exclusively by thee)
Oh, but I think it was. By Summer 1944 "free" Europe was reduced to an
island about the size of Oregon thanks to the brilliant military strategies
of the British, French, and Belgian General Staffs. On June 6, 1944 the
United States Army slugged its way onto the shores of Normandy at a cost of
6,603 Americans men. They took the overwhelming majority of the casualites
and did the majority of the fighting on D-Day. On the other hand the Second
British Army landed 2,400 Canadians on Juno Beach and took on 400 Germans
whose artillery was pulled by horses. Over 1,000 Canadians were wounded and
335 killed. There is no data on casualties among the German horses. On
Gold Beach the mighty British Army took on the "Ost Brigade" which was made
up of Russian and Polish conscripts forced to fight for the Germans, and on
Sword Beach the Brits met only light-to-medium German resistance. But
nevermind that. What really matters is that in only took the US Army 11
months to reach Berlin, something the Europeans hadn't been able to do in
nearly 5 years.
does not give it divine right dictate military
> policy to the other free nations of the world.
If we pay for it (which we do) then you play by our rules. If you don't
like it then defend yourselves. But of course, that's easily done now that
half the old Warsaw Pact is either in NATO, or about to join. You guys are
talking real tough now that the neighborhood bully has moved away.
If your population wasn't
> so saturated in its own self-righteous propaganda, you might even have
> cause to doubt your government's forgein policies, as many Europeans
> rightly do.
What? How does one even answer that? So let me get this straight - our
opinions are "self-righteous propoganda" and if we don't "doubt our
government's forgein [sic] policies" we're not on the same level with
right-minded Europeans? Be serious. Stop thinking in absolutes. Not all
Americans agree with President Bush, just as not all Europeans disagree with
him.
Increasingly it seems that America's traditional virtues
> (freedom of speech, the right to question authority, tollerance) are
> being forgotten
Uhmm, I think it was France - one of, if not the, preeminent EU member - who
just put two authors on trial for what they wrote in a book. Can you name
the last time an author was put on trial in America for something he wrote?
in what appears to be a pragmatic response to a tough
> situation, but if followed to its conclusion, will bring about your
> doom.
>
Not if we kill them first - which is pragmatic.
> Bush has stated that the USA will never again allow itself to be
> equalled as a military or ecconomic power.
When? Where? Cite your source.
If you can't take a step back
> and see the underlying threat in that statement, you should really have
> a big think about it before you post again.
>
If you can't take a step back from your pan-European, holier-then-thou
attitude, you might just find yourself facing the Russians again all by
yourself.
Baudolino
"SnowDog" <sno...@tobes.of.hades.org> wrote in message
news:FKBE9.31239$mL2....@nwrddc01.gnilink.net...
> Baudolino" <baud...@wi.rr.com> wrote in message
> news:02BE9.80774$uw6.1...@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...> Just check
> http://www.undp.org/hdr2001/back.pdf and you will see there is no
> > A shorter book than the European war heroes is probably the list with
> > American inventions. Besides pizza with pineapple, what's more on that
> list?
>
> Electricity, bifocals, the cotton gin, the harmonica, the telephone, the
> telegraph, the light bulb, the bomb, the moon walk (literally), rock and
> roll, the blues, bar-b-que, the laser...
>
1899, Franklin only invented the lightning rod
Bifocals: Ok, Something Franklin really did (see electricity)
Cotton gin: What a story is that (slavery)
Harmonica: invented by Christian Friedrich Buschmann in Europe (probably
Germany), in 1862 the German Hohner introduced it to the US and that was how
Hohner became a big brand in the US.
Telephone: Bell was born in Edinburg, Scotland
Telegraph: No, telegraphs were already in use year before Christ. Allthough
Morse invented (after a long European trip and based on work of Volta and
Ampere) the electric telegraph.
Light Bulb: Supposedly invented in 1879 simultaneously by Thomas Alva Edison
in the United States and Sir Joseph Wilson Swan in England. Although the
French already had some sort of streetlights in 1841. To be fair, allthough
Edison wasn't the inventor he was the first one that had a light that burned
for more than 40 hours.
Bomb: The Chinese used bombs before 1044, the nuclear bomb was invented by
the US, allthough they only started after Einstein told Rooseveldt the
Nazi's used purified Uranium to build a nuclear bomb, something that was
copied by the Americans.
The moon walker: Ok
Rock and Roll: Ok
Blues: Ok
BBQ: Ok, but it was more a poor man solution for European cooking
Laser: Ok, but Arthur Schawlow had his education in Canada
So, the US had some inventions but compared to Europe (glasses, electricity,
books, planes (in 1890, not the Wright brothers in 1903), and cars) it's not
a very impressive list. So far I think this list is far shorter than the
military achievements of Napoleon (the reason US is a left hand drive
country) so give it another shot.
Besides this it seems Doug never heard of Columbus (the one with the 2
ships)
Maxim Khesin
> the US, allthough they only started after Einstein told Rooseveldt the
> Nazi's used purified Uranium to build a nuclear bomb, something that was
> copied by the Americans.
Historically the invention of fission as a method of releasing nuclear
energy is attributed to Leo Szilad, a Jewish Hungarian (who eventually
became an American). He actually took out a patent on it in GB. He is the
one who alerted Einstein to the possibility of a Nazi nuke. The biulding of
the nuke, though, has to be credited to the americans.
Uncle Sam
Where has all the defenders of Canada gone. They don't have to worry about
protection because they are hiding in the arm pit of the US. In the past I
wanted to have the health care that other countries has, but one must way
the 2 - health care or secure borders. I am proud to be an American.
Not too long ago, while the peace negotiations were trying to take place
between Paletineans and Israel, I noticed the European Union and Canada
begging the US to get involved with the deteriation of the negotians. For
those who think that the US is arrogant and cowboyish then DONT COME BEGGING
TO US FOR ASSISTANCE with your problems. Wait...... I see the connection
..... I know now why the Frenchies and Canada are yellow and stupid......
Canada is of French descent...... Maybe we ALL should become more modest
and NOT just the US. Think about it, there is no country with more
arrogance than the Frenchies. When one visits France they refuse to speak
in English because they consider themselves better. What about the Germans
who think that their engineering is superior. Well, it is good but with
every major war stands a corrupt leader ie Nepoleon and Hitler. Hell, they
are always trying to take over the world, which reminds me of the cartoon
Pinky and the Brain....hehehehehe
England is the only country that I consider as an aly.
Ok...ok.... ok..... stop the bickering..... The whole world should gather
together and take a chill pill. We need to show appreciation to one
another. The advancement of this world has been due to all countries giving
their best.
"Psycho Psycho" <psycho_...@nospam.shaw.ca> wrote in message
news:SVAE9.898572$v53.32...@news3.calgary.shaw.ca...
lvaughn
<dgg...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
Rick Carlsen
"Jim McCulloch" <mccu...@mail.utexas.edu> wrote in message
news:BA084A2D.21B0B%mccu...@mail.utexas.edu...
> in article BKzE9.31636$hK4.2...@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net,
> DGVREIMAN at dgg...@worldnet.att.net wrote on 11/25/02 7:02 PM:
>
> >
> >
> > ARROGANT AMERICANS
> >
> > Most Americans are perceived in Europe as arrogant. The Europeans
> > that have never lived in America cannot understand why Americans
> > always act so superior. There are a few reasons:
>
> I doubt if Europeans by and large think Americans are superior, whether or
> not Americans believe themselves so or not. On the other hand, arrogance
is
> very commensurate with stupidity, but, when arrogance is startlingly at
odds
> with reality, arrogance transcends itself by providing the kind of
horrified
> amusement to spectators that .
>
> Let us examine, and appreciate, how startlingly at odds with reality
Doug's
> post is.
>
> > Americans for the most part view Europe as a place that would not
> > exist today without American support.
>
> Some 16 European countries benefited from the Marshall Plan, primarily
> Britain, France, Italy, W. Germany, and Holland (in order of total
> benefits), and there may even today be a residue of good will towards the
> United States because of this act of benevolent self-interest on our part.
Nope, wrong. I lived in Europe (UK and Germany) for 9 of the last 12 years
and I can tell you based on personal experience that not one European I ever
met gives a damn about the Marshall Plan or its benefits to post-war Europe.
They just don't care. It's ancient history that's conveniently forgotten.
The check was cashed, the money was spent, and that's all that matters.
> However, it makes little sense to say that Europe as a place (however
> metaphorically you wish to construe this) would not exist today without
> American support.
Metaphorically speaking, no. Russian speaking, yes.
>
> > Americans witnessed the
> > incredible blunders of the French and British during WWI and WWII
> > (Verdun, Dieppe, Dunkirk, Holland, Maginot Line, deals with
> > Hitler, Vichy France, Serbia, Bosnia, El Duce, Franco, Adolph
> > Hitler, Communism, etc . . . etc . . . ) And more recently, the
> > wanton slaughter in Bosnia and Serbia again. Once again, America
> > to the rescue.
>
> Wars are often foolish. Our only intelligence on the international stage
has
> been in staying out of large international wars, up until World War One,
> when we began to join in the common foolishness;
Don't act like WWI was some terrible calamity foisted on Europe by others.
Eupopeans started it and it took the Americans to finish it.
now, of course, we believe
> we can use our technological superiority to fight in the future what in
> American English we will call bloodless war, since we intend, much as
other
> imperial powers of the past who imagined a permanent strategic or
> technological superiority, to fight wars with involve only the blood of
> others. This intention is certainly arrogant, and may be a prelude to one
of
> the "incredible blunders" like those you mentioned above, which all were
> predicated on certainties hardly more foolish, except in retrospect, than
> our own.
I can't even follow that two sentance paragraph, let alone respond to it.
>
> And don't forget Vietnam, Doug.
Yes, we won't forget that little gift the French gave us.
>
> > To Americans, Europeans are not the brightest people in the
> > world.
>
> Um, perhaps we are not looking at their best and brightest. I vaguely
recall
> that Mr. Einstein, Mr. Planck, Mr. Bohr, Mr. Fermi, and Mr. Heisenberg,
all
> as one small example in one small area of human endeavor, were Europeans,
> and modern Europeans at that. This kind of thing can be elaborated on in
> other areas, but I won't belabor the point.
Oh, this is getting good!!! Of the four esteemed gentlemen you mention can
you name the two that were American citizens?
Betcha can't.
>
> >In fact, they seem incredibly backward to the American
> > middle class,
>
> See above, except the addendum that the American middle class has not
> hitherto in human history truly distinguished itself at much of anything
> except an astonishing propensity to obesity and a very shortsighted
> dependence on foreign oil.
Britain and Europe are getting fatter by the day as well. Don't throw too
many stones in your glass house. Oh, and by the way...where exactly does
Europe get 41% of its imported oil...the Middle East. How much oil does
Europe import? 50%. In 1998 it was 49%. Some project it to increase to
71% by 2030. (source: http://www.edie.net) Hypocrisy is very European, but
it doesn't help win arguments.
>
> >and incapable of even defending themselves.
>
> Odd, that you would construe the lack of that at which every schoolyard
> bully excels, as backwardness. One would think that military prowess and
> backwardness are unrelated qualities--if one were rational, perhaps.
>
Not backwardness, just cowardice.
> >Their
> > Military leaders were laughing stock,
>
> Actually, I think some of the campaigns of European generals, including
some
> modern ones, are studied even now in our own military academies.
Yeah, as lessons in what NOT to do. The sad fact of the matter is that the
only good European generals of the 20th century were all German.
>
> >and the shortest book in
> > the world is the list of Italian/French war heroes.
>
> This is very stupid, Doug, and, (need I mention it?) profoundly arrogant.
> The soldiers who died bravely at Verdun, in numbers Americans can't even
> imagine, were for the most part, um, European, and about half of them
> French.
Stop arguing Doug's point. The reason these men died is because the anceint
French General Staff was incapable of changing their tactics to meet the
advances of technology. While frontal assaults worked well for the French
in 1871 during the Franco-Prussian War they were disastorous against the
German machine gun in 1914. And those men at Verdun did not die bravely -
they were wasted.
To extend this a little, the soldiers who saved Churchill's, and
> our, bacon at Stalingrad, were Russian, and _all_ the soldiers who died
> bravely at Stalingrad, in numbers Americans can't even imagine, were, um,
> European.
Once again, you confuse statistics with facts. The reason that Russian
casualties were so high was Zukov's total disregard for the value of his
soldiers and the appaulingly inadequate equipping of the Red Army. Unarmed
men were expected to run across open fields in the face of an entrenced
enemy and pick up the rifle of the fallen man in front of them to continue
the assualt.
AFAIK not an American among them. To come back to the French in
> WWII, I am afraid that you confuse losing, through being outgunned and
> out-generaled (but wait, that can't be, the Germans are Europeans, and
their
> generals were a laughinstock--I forgot), with being cowardly.
Nobody said they were cowards, they just didn't fight real hard.
American
> soldiers in WWII, when surrounded and defeated, very readily surrendered.
> Indeed some of them, like General MacArthur, ran away after being
defeated.
First, cite one example of American soldiers "readily" surrendering.
Second, why are you again arguing the opposite point? If it wasn't cowardly
for the French to surrender, why is it then somehow dishonorable for
Americans, when surrounded and defeated, to do the same thing?
As far as MacArthur is concerned, it's better to run and fight another day
then do what the French did in Vichey France. Collaberation and
surrendering of Jews to the Nazi death-machine is not an example of France's
finest hour.
>
> So it is hard to see what you could possibly be talking about.
>
Sure, if you're wearing your euro-blinders.
> > If there is a battle to be lost, a country to be surrendered, it
> > seems the Europeans will find a way to do it, and then whine
> > because America did not help them recover what they lost fast
> > enough . . ( with American blood of course).
>
> With American blood? I guess you have never really looked at the casualty
> figures for WWI and for WWII. Do so, and you will be more humble.
Again, nothing says that because you got more people killed then the other
guy you're somehow superior or more brave or more worthy.
>
> > Nothing is ever mentioned how American young men are manning the
> > ramparts of Europe to this very day. Had there been a war with
> > Russia, those were the men that would have fell first, while the
> > Europeans would have no doubt drudged up their white flags from
> > their war chests.
>
> Actually, our military presence in Europe sprang from 2 sources, our
> perceived self interest in keeping the Russians at bay, and an
unwillingness
> to entrust the defense of Germany to the Germans--an unwillingness hardly
> sprung from a view of German incompetence or cowardice.
Again, Europe couldn't police itself, so America had to do it for them.
>
> >... Europeans can enjoy domestic benefits that
> > Americans cannot afford, but even then, the Europeans manage to
> > screw it up!
> >
> > Consider National Health as a classic example: I realize Canada
> > is not European, but they might as well be for all the terrible
> > economy, high unemployment and pathetic health care they provide
> > their citizens.
>
> Strange. The Canadians seem very unwilling to abandon the pathetic health
> care they provide their citizens.
>
> >France, Britain and especially Ireland fare no
> > better, Portugal, Spain and the Netherlands are so backward they
> > remind me of Southern Mississippi, USA.
>
> Have you ever been to Europe, Doug? More to the point, were you smoking
> crack while you were there?
>
> > Yet since 911 and thousands of Americans were massacred, where
> > are the Europeans? Dancing and dodging.
>
> If you are trying to say that they were dancing in the streets about 911,
> thqt is quite incorrect. Most Europeans at that moment were on our side.
> Since then, of course, Mr. Bush and his axis of imbecility have certainly
> managed to squander that sympathy and good will, if nothing else through
> gratuitous insults to our allies, and through a profound arrogance.
No, he wasn't saying that. "Dancing and dodging" was a metaphor for
European inaction and unwillingness to act resolutely to a situation that is
actually more threatening to them then to us. In 20 years one-fourth of all
Europeans will be over the age of 60. Today it's one in five. If they
can't, or won't, defend themselves by themselves, how can they expect to do
it with fewer people of military service age? And, with immigration from
the Middle East and Northern Africa increasing year by year, Europe will be
facing radical Islamic terrorism on a far greater scale then we will. But
that doesn't matter, you used it (albeit ineffectively) to pursue your
anti-American propoganda.
No, it's not. Brits in the 1770s and 1780s, Serbs in the 1990s.
Jim, you seem more attuned to the European point of view and lifestyle.
Have you considered moving there - permenantly?
Cheers,
Rick
>
Captain Compassion
<dgg...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
The history of many countries in Europe is glorious but it is still
history. Europe is the past and America is the present and the future.
The European psyche suffers from the same sense of lost greatness as
do the Moslems. The Moslems have an advantage. At least they
procreate. In many Eurpoean countries the population is too
"sophisticated" to procreate at a replacement level. Workers have to
ne imported mostly from Moslem countries. Eventually Islam will win
through immigration and procreation what what they failed to win at
Tours and Vienna. Perhaps Eurpoeans realize where their future lies
and even now accept the and defer to the tide of the Prophet.
No. I consider GB and Ireland as seperate from Europe.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
"Isreal is an artificial country. The Bolshevics (jews) destroyed
russia so that it could rob the Russians blind. They are like a
disease, disrupting all conventions so that they can implant their
agenda as though it were always there. Great americans throughout our
history have warned of thier treachery. Thomas Jefferson, Benjamin
Franklin, Henry Ford, Billy Graham and many, many more have warned of
the havoc they will cause." -- alohacyberian
"If you can't eat their food, drink their liquor, fuck their
whores and take their money and STILL vote AGAINST them, you
don't belong in this business." -- Jess Unruh.
"In the end they will lay their freedom at our feet and say to us,
'Make us your slaves, but feed us.'" -- Dosteovsky
Joseph R. Darancette
res0...@NOSPAMverizon.net
Captain Compassion
>Americans are perceived as arrogant in many quarters, not only Europe.
>The reasons (aside from political & ecconomic totalitarianism) should be
>obvious if you read back over your post.
>
>The USA doing its part in WW2 (which - wake up baby - was not won
>exclusively by thee) does not give it divine right dictate military
>policy to the other free nations of the world. If your population wasn't
>so saturated in its own self-righteous propaganda, you might even have
>cause to doubt your government's forgein policies, as many Europeans
>rightly do. Increasingly it seems that America's traditional virtues
>(freedom of speech, the right to question authority, tollerance) are
>being forgotten in what appears to be a pragmatic response to a tough
>situation, but if followed to its conclusion, will bring about your
>doom.
>
>Bush has stated that the USA will never again allow itself to be
>equalled as a military or ecconomic power. If you can't take a step back
>and see the underlying threat in that statement, you should really have
>a big think about it before you post again.
>
So you feel that the USA should strive to be a second rate economic
and military power? Do you realize how stupid that sounds? You are
aptly named.... Fool!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Psycho Psycho
> Your "Canadian" facts are STUPID. If Canada had to defend itself and
> spend "BILLIONS" on protecting it's borders rather than lean on your
> neighbor "AMERICA" to your south, you in Canada would suffer budget
> problems also. Canada is like a big stinking wart on America's ass
> sucking off our defense and economy and you claim your "Budget" is
> healthy? Try defending yourself against a "REAL" military without
> America guarding your backdoor moose humper. Canada would be
> obliterated frozen brain boy. Your budget "surplus" is due to
> American military protection and our economy on your doorstep. If
> located anywhere else geographically Canada would be a banana
> republic eating shit.
>>
I stand corrected. You didn't piss away billions mismanaging the
California energy crisis. Or more billions in tax cuts to the richest 2% of
Americans. Or the TRILLIONS lost in the biggest stock-market scam in
history (Enron, Worldcom, Williams, Halliburton . . . .hundreds of corrupt
companies.)
America really needs to teach the rest of the world, especially Canada,
about the profound secret behind this stellar performance.
Every one of the Sept 11 hijackers had American visas. American. Didn't
come through Canada. Went straight to A-m-e-r-i-c-a from other countries
and YOU let them in. Not us.
If our economy is on your doorstep, explain why ours stayed out of recession
and deficit while yours did not. Could it be that you're really just a
collection of fuckups, not the powerhouse you pretend to be? Cowards too.
The minute the first body bags come home from Iraq, watch the brave 82nd run
away crying for mama. Just like in Somalia.
Captain Compassion
At least sense 1776.
Baudolino
wondering that allthough french is spoken in 53 countries and the French
have a remarkable history of very bright scientist why no one seems to be
interested in their country. Besides that, England and France have been
enemies for so many years, it takes a while to accept that you lost on the
language part. Besides that, most younger people decide to learn english.
There arrogance is getting less, a good sign.
Just drive a BMW and you'll agree German engineering is superior (well, for
cars anyway).
"Uncle Sam" <kthu...@att.net> wrote in message
news:A2DE9.116381$%m4.5...@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net...
Baudolino
"Maxim Khesin" <ma...@NtOoSuPrAoM.edu> wrote in message
news:LtCE9.165461$gB.34...@twister.nyc.rr.com...
other people's ideas
Baudolino
news:3de2fe6c...@news.verizon.net...
> On Tue, 26 Nov 2002 13:04:04 +1000, Fool <nob...@nowhere.com> wrote:
>
> >Americans are perceived as arrogant in many quarters, not only Europe.
> >The reasons (aside from political & ecconomic totalitarianism) should be
> >obvious if you read back over your post.
> >
> >The USA doing its part in WW2 (which - wake up baby - was not won
> >exclusively by thee) does not give it divine right dictate military
> >policy to the other free nations of the world. If your population wasn't
> >so saturated in its own self-righteous propaganda, you might even have
> >cause to doubt your government's forgein policies, as many Europeans
> >rightly do. Increasingly it seems that America's traditional virtues
> >(freedom of speech, the right to question authority, tollerance) are
> >being forgotten in what appears to be a pragmatic response to a tough
> >situation, but if followed to its conclusion, will bring about your
> >doom.
> >
> >Bush has stated that the USA will never again allow itself to be
> >equalled as a military or ecconomic power. If you can't take a step back
> >and see the underlying threat in that statement, you should really have
> >a big think about it before you post again.
> >
> So you feel that the USA should strive to be a second rate economic
> and military power? Do you realize how stupid that sounds? You are
> aptly named.... Fool!
>
already had 16 colors but it seems there are plenty of Americans only seeing
black and white. Not being in first place could still mean in the top 10 and
is a good score considering there are well over 150 countries.
NeuroManson
> French don't consider themselves any better than other people, they are
just
> wondering that allthough french is spoken in 53 countries and the French
> have a remarkable history of very bright scientist why no one seems to be
> interested in their country. Besides that, England and France have been
> enemies for so many years, it takes a while to accept that you lost on the
> language part. Besides that, most younger people decide to learn english.
> There arrogance is getting less, a good sign.
> Just drive a BMW and you'll agree German engineering is superior (well,
for
> cars anyway).
>
Well, if you consider that while the Brits and US were jerking off while
pondering "what if?" with both jet turbines and rockets, that the Germans
were building intercontinental missiles and jet fighters during WWII, even
designing a very B2'ish intercontinental bomber with plans on bombing NYC,
well, doesn't take a rocket scientist (though it did eventually) to
understand where we got many of our ideas...
NeuroManson
> >
> > Electricity, bifocals, the cotton gin, the harmonica, the telephone, the
> > telegraph, the light bulb, the bomb, the moon walk (literally), rock and
> > roll, the blues, bar-b-que, the laser...
> >
> Electricity:As opposed to American teaching, Volta invented electricity in
> 1899, Franklin only invented the lightning rod
The operative word should be "discovered". Eelecticity (for example,
lightning, static electicity, et al) existed long before anyone "discovered"
it.
> Bifocals: Ok, Something Franklin really did (see electricity)
> Cotton gin: What a story is that (slavery)
> Harmonica: invented by Christian Friedrich Buschmann in Europe (probably
> Germany), in 1862 the German Hohner introduced it to the US and that was
how
> Hohner became a big brand in the US.
> Telephone: Bell was born in Edinburg, Scotland
> Telegraph: No, telegraphs were already in use year before Christ.
Allthough
> Morse invented (after a long European trip and based on work of Volta and
> Ampere) the electric telegraph.
> Light Bulb: Supposedly invented in 1879 simultaneously by Thomas Alva
Edison
> in the United States and Sir Joseph Wilson Swan in England. Although the
> French already had some sort of streetlights in 1841. To be fair,
allthough
> Edison wasn't the inventor he was the first one that had a light that
burned
> for more than 40 hours.
And allegedly discovered in France even sooner, using a compratively
much more expensive platinum filiment. Don't forget the very concept of AC
current that led to modern technology, which in turn was heavily defamed by
Edison, spawned by Nicola Tesla, a Russian immigrant who was largely screwed
over by American industries that stole his concept (eg; Westinghouse).
> Bomb: The Chinese used bombs before 1044, the nuclear bomb was invented by
> the US, allthough they only started after Einstein told Rooseveldt the
> Nazi's used purified Uranium to build a nuclear bomb, something that was
> copied by the Americans.
Even though the Nazi a-bomb theories were proven far more flawed,
requiring a ludicrous amount of Uranium to create a critical mass for
fission to occur.
> The moon walker: Ok
> Rock and Roll: Ok
> Blues: Ok
> BBQ: Ok, but it was more a poor man solution for European cooking
> Laser: Ok, but Arthur Schawlow had his education in Canada
> Besides this it seems Doug never heard of Columbus (the one with the 2
> ships)
Well, if you consider Eric the Red, or the few Asian settlers who
crossed over on the Bering land bridge, both beat Columbus by milennia,
besides which, Columbus discovered the Bahamas, as opposed to the
continental US.
> > --
> > "Still one thing more, fellow citizens--a wise and frugal Government,
> which
> > shall restrain men from injuring one another, shall leave them otherwise
> > free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and
shall
> > not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned. This is the
sum
> of
> > good government, and this is necessary to close the circle of our
> > felicities."
> > -Thomas Jefferson: 1st Inaugural, 1801
Good luck on that, in the modern economy, he who holds the most lawyers
wins, despite whether or not being right or wrong.
Baudolino
that the US only takes part in 7 of the current 15 peacekeeping operations
of the UN? That's as much as Argentina and 3 less than for example Denmark.
The US are for example not present in the MONUC and UNAMSIL, two huge
operations in Africa. You probably never heard of them guess and to be
honest I've never heard anything about these two in the news here. Is there
a slight change the American media does not cover all the issues going on in
this world?
Did you know that in September 2002 643 of the total of 44,359 were from the
US (LESS than 1.5%). Before 9/11, (August 2001) the number of American
soldiers in peace missions was 747, as compared to over 6000 for Bangladesh
(you know, the third world country that's under water half of the time)!! US
saving the world, my ass! They just have their flags, stories and media
everywere but the numbers tell us it's only show.
Don't believe me, go to www.un.org and check for yourself.
Start to understand how the rest of the world feels about the show-offs?
.
> Doug, you had a wonderfull story, only I think you missed out on the fact
> that the US only takes part in 7 of the current 15 peacekeeping operations
Peacekeeping shmeeskeeping.When there is real fighting to be done who always
gets the call (here's a hint-
it aint Bangladesh)
Face it , someone has to do the scut work.
Jim
Captain Compassion
wrote:
At the time the US first went after Iraq they had the 5th largest Army
in the world with some of the largest oil reserves. How good was 5th
place?
Asylum
The US, USSR, & the Commonwealth all contributed and were all victors but
the Soviets (who used a lot of Us & UK equipment) bore the brunt of this by
quite a margin. No one is belittling the US sacrifice and the vital nature
of the second front but the Western front was but a sideshow compared to the
east
"Rick Carlsen" <nospam...@cox.net> wrote in message
news:faCE9.26153$wc2.1...@news2.east.cox.net...
Asylum
Indians are not far behind
"Captain Compassion" <res0...@NOSPAMverizon.net> wrote in message
news:3de2fe6c...@news.verizon.net...
Mark Williams
news:BKzE9.31636$hK4.2...@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
>
>
>
> Most Americans are perceived in Europe as arrogant. The Europeans
> that have never lived in America cannot understand why Americans
> always act so superior. There are a few reasons:
>
> Americans for the most part view Europe as a place that would not
> exist today without American support. Americans witnessed the
> incredible blunders of the French and British during WWI and WWII
> (Verdun, Dieppe, Dunkirk, Holland, Maginot Line, deals with
> Hitler, Vichy France, Serbia, Bosnia, El Duce, Franco, Adolph
> Hitler, Communism, etc . . . etc . . . ) And more recently, the
> wanton slaughter in Bosnia and Serbia again. Once again, America
> to the rescue.
Where do I start? Europe is a continent - even Hitler couldn't remove a
continent from the face of the earth. Europe owes the US for hauling it out
of the shit, sure, but how much longer do we have to be grateful? Should
Saddam still be grateful for the US giving him arms and elevating him to the
status of war hero? America didn't 'rescue' the Balkans single-handed; NATO
did it, and the forces were significantly European.
>
> To Americans, Europeans are not the brightest people in the
> world. In fact, they seem incredibly backward to the American
> middle class, and incapable of even defending themselves. Their
> Military leaders were laughing stock, and the shortest book in
> the world is the list of Italian/French war heroes.
Astonishing. I like Americans in general, but most couldn't find their ass
with both hands. One college kid asked me if Scotland was an island. Most
Americans know about America and sod all else. And neither the French not
the Italians would publish a book on war heroes, because they don't hold
warmongers in high esteem.
>
> If there is a battle to be lost, a country to be surrendered, it
> seems the Europeans will find a way to do it, and then whine
> because America did not help them recover what they lost fast
> enough . . ( with American blood of course).
Give me one example of Europeans whining that the US cavalry didn't arrive
soon enough? Just one...
>
> Nothing is ever mentioned how American young men are manning the
> ramparts of Europe to this very day. Had there been a war with
> Russia, those were the men that would have fell first, while the
> Europeans would have no doubt drudged up their white flags from
> their war chests.
>
> Even today we maintain Europe's defenses with American troops and
> bases at a tremendous cost to America . . . while those nations
> we defend enjoy budgets that do not necessitate a major defense
> bite. That means Europeans can enjoy domestic benefits that
> Americans cannot afford, but even then, the Europeans manage to
> screw it up!
>
I live next to three former USAF bases in Europe, all emptied
post-Gorbachev. Good job too. And as far as Europe's concerned, you can all
go home in your combat fatigues and come back wearing Hawaiian shirts, hats
and sandals and saying 'Hey bud. D'ya ever meet the Queen of England?..'
> Consider National Health as a classic example: I realize Canada
> is not European, but they might as well be for all the terrible
> economy, high unemployment and pathetic health care they provide
> their citizens. France, Britain and especially Ireland fare no
> better, Portugal, Spain and the Netherlands are so backward they
> remind me of Southern Mississippi, USA.
ALL clinical medical care is free in the UK, no matter who you are. It costs
us around $3,000 a year in taxes if you can afford it, and if you can't it
doesn't matter - the National Health Service still saves your life.
Unemployment in the UK is lower than in any European country, and lower than
in the majority of US states.
>
> Yet since 911 and thousands of Americans were massacred, where
> are the Europeans? Dancing and dodging.
No, we wept for you.
Also, although we were
> the one that was attacked, and we are the primary target for
> Saddam's weapons of mass destruction, who does the UN appoint as
> chief Inspector? Duh, Hans, Duh, Blix. Remember him? He was the
> "genius European" that was the chief of the IAEC that inspected
> Iraq's Nuclear program and proclaimed Iraq did not possess any
> nuclear materials. Duh. Then after the American and British
> inspectors went into Iraq after the Gulf war and found not less
> than 100 pounds of enriched Uranium (enough to make 10 Nuclear
> fission bombs) ol Hans said, "Well, wadda you know...Duh. Now,
> the fate of thousands of Americans rest in the hands of this
> European idiot? Once again, it appears that we are going to take
> it on the chin so some "Seargeant Shultz" (I see nothing, I hear
> nothing, I know nothing) can parade around and appear superior to
> the Yankees. (Someone should place a Clown hat and floppy shoes
> on Mr. Blix and watch him run around the streets of Baghdad for
> all the good he will do America...at least this clown would be
> seen for what he really is.)
You really, really want this war, don't you?
>
> We also find ourselves bewildered at the so-called "United
> Nations" that keeps passing resolution after resolution against
> Israel while the Palestinians keep sending over murder bombers
> after murder bombers to murder innocent Israelis. It's like those
> UN fools cannot hear the explosions? So what do they do?
>
> They send some fool into the Palestinian area to work with the
> Palestinians. The Palestinians shoot at some Israeli soldiers,
> and when the Israelis shoot back the UN guy gets killed.
What happened was that an Israeli kid soldier let loose because he thought
he saw something in the UN guy's hand. He claimed it was a grenade, but
turned out to be a mobile phone. No shots were fired from the UN compound,
even the Israelis now accept that.
Now the
> UN is howling and screaming, holding meetings, proclaiming
> investigations, and using good ol American money to launch a
> complete investigation into this unfortunate but understandable
> accident.....yet hundreds of innocent Israelis are being murdered
> on buses, in their beds and Israeli children are being
> specifically targeted by the Palestinian goons, and what does the
> UN do? Absolutely nothing.
Israeli occupation of the West Bank and Gaza is illegal. Palestine should
have its land back. Says the USA. Meanwhile, the US sends $3 billion a year
to the (rich) Israelis while Palestinians live in utter squalor... the kind
of squalor that leads them in desperation to sacrifice their children's
bodies in their struggle against illegal occupation. They fish with stones
because they have little else. And Israel shows them it's not right to
murder people by murdering some more people.
>
> One UN operative is where he should not be, gets himself killed
> as a result, and the UN rolls out the guard and declares
> investigative war on Israel. Meanwhile thousands of innocent
> Israelis are murdered or maimed and the UN "averts its eyes" and
> passes yet another half baked, half thought-out, well paid by the
> Arab league, outrageous resolution against Israel? If Americans
> did not know better, we would believe the UN thinks it is the
> Israelis sending in the murder bombers and not the Palestinian
> terrorists!
>
When, in fact, what is happening is that the Israelis are sending in the
murder bombers...
> From the birth of our nation we have either been fighting the
> Europeans, or sending our young men to die for them. Just once I
> would like to see some appreciation, some empathy for the attacks
> on America, and some loyalty to the preservation of the leader of
> the free world by a solid European Union.
>
The 'free world' doesn't exist. I guess you mean democracy, and the US
attitude to democracy is that it doesn't matter that Dubya won the
presidency by getting Jeb to spike the Florida vote. Leader of the free
world? Let's put it to the vote - the only way the US gets to win is by
voting for itself.
> America should not need to "go a begging" for European support to
> defend our country. The European nations should be scrambling to
> support us. They should be grateful, and loyal, and as willing to
> help the cause of freedom in America as America was in Europe all
> these many centuries.
>
We support free and fair elections, which you don't have. We support
diplomacy and negotiation, which you don't want. We support peaceable
nations, which you are not. We support each and every issue on its merits
because we are free-thinking people, not sheep.
> I guess that is why Americans feel a bit arrogant when it comes
> to Europeans. We cannot ever think of anything good that has
> happened to our nation that originated from Europe - except
> perhaps the people that knew enough to escape from it and came
> here.
You can thank Newton for the discovery of gravity, the foundation of all
modern science. You can thank Nazi scientists, who you sheltered after WWII,
for inventing the atomic bomb and ICBMs. You can thank Pasteur for our
understanding of bacteria and for the vaccines against anthrax and rabies.
You can thank Joseph Lister for founding modern antiseptic surgery. You can
thank Sir Alexander Fleming for discovering antibiotics. You can thank Frank
Whittle for inventing the jet engine. You can thank Isambard Brunel for
building the first propellor-driven ocean ship. You can thank Albert
Einstein for the theory of relativity and so much more, including warning
Roosevelt that the Nazis could feasibly build an atom bomb, then campaigning
for nuclear disarmament until he died. You can thank... oh I'm getting bored
now. Go read a book.
>
> Doug Grant (Tm)
>
>
>
Mark Williams
news:FKBE9.31239$mL2....@nwrddc01.gnilink.net...
> news:02BE9.80774$uw6.1...@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...> Just check
> http://www.undp.org/hdr2001/back.pdf and you will see there is no
> > A shorter book than the European war heroes is probably the list with
> > American inventions. Besides pizza with pineapple, what's more on that
> list?
>
> Electricity, bifocals, the cotton gin, the harmonica, the telephone, the
> telegraph, the light bulb, the bomb, the moon walk (literally), rock and
> roll, the blues, bar-b-que, the laser...
You moron, nobody 'ivented' electricity, and current electricity was
discovered and investigated by Volta and Ampere. The tekephone was invented
by a Scotsman, bombs were in use by Europe before America was invaded by
whites, and the A bomb was invented by Germans working for the US after
WWII.
Mark Williams
Thanks so much for nailing the right figures, Baudolino. I must work harder
at this...
"Baudolino" <baud...@wi.rr.com> wrote in message
news:piEE9.81188$uw6.1...@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
SnowDog
news:arvm5q$k0i$1...@helle.btinternet.com...
> You moron,
Get an older relative to make your arguments for you, if you want to be
taken seriously.
Rick Carlsen
Cheers,
Rick
"Asylum" <s...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:arvdps$e50$1...@lust.ihug.co.nz...
SnowDog
> Electricity:As opposed to American teaching, Volta invented electricity in
> 1899, Franklin only invented the lightning rod
Nitpick if you must...
> Bifocals: Ok, Something Franklin really did (see electricity)
> Cotton gin: What a story is that (slavery)
Which is not an American invention.
> Harmonica: invented by Christian Friedrich Buschmann in Europe (probably
> Germany), in 1862 the German Hohner introduced it to the US and that was
how
> Hohner became a big brand in the US.
> Telephone: Bell was born in Edinburg, Scotland
Meaningless.
> Telegraph: No, telegraphs were already in use year before Christ.
Allthough
> Morse invented (after a long European trip and based on work of Volta and
> Ampere) the electric telegraph.
So, the telegraph (electric is obviously implied, if you live in an advanced
nation like the US), AND Morse Code!
> Light Bulb: Supposedly invented in 1879 simultaneously by Thomas Alva
Edison
> in the United States and Sir Joseph Wilson Swan in England. Although the
> French already had some sort of streetlights in 1841. To be fair,
allthough
> Edison wasn't the inventor he was the first one that had a light that
burned
> for more than 40 hours.
The light bulb we use is clearly Edison's invention.
> Bomb: The Chinese used bombs before 1044, the nuclear bomb was invented by
> the US, allthough they only started after Einstein told Rooseveldt the
> Nazi's used purified Uranium to build a nuclear bomb, something that was
> copied by the Americans.
I didn't say bombs, I said The Bomb. I think you know what I meant.
> The moon walker: Ok
> Rock and Roll: Ok
> Blues: Ok
> BBQ: Ok, but it was more a poor man solution for European cooking
> Laser: Ok, but Arthur Schawlow had his education in Canada
>
> So, the US had some inventions but compared to Europe (glasses,
electricity,
> books, planes (in 1890, not the Wright brothers in 1903), and cars) it's
not
> a very impressive list.
The US didn't exist before most of the European inventions.
> So far I think this list is far shorter than the
> military achievements of Napoleon (the reason US is a left hand drive
> country)
Yet he is still 1 military leader, which makes for a short list of military
leaders.
> so give it another shot.
The Computer, the operating system, most programming languages, especially
the important ones, and don't even bother claiming the abacus, the detective
story, the cheerleader, the frisbee, popcorn...
Mark Williams
"SnowDog" <sno...@tobes.of.hades.org> wrote in message
news:BdJE9.29333$hi6....@nwrddc02.gnilink.net...
> "Mark Williams" <wide...@btconnect.com> wrote in message
> news:arvm5q$k0i$1...@helle.btinternet.com...
>
> > You moron,
>
> Get an older relative to make your arguments for you, if you want to be
> taken seriously.
I withdraw the insult with a sincere apology. Though I note you've deleted
all of the argument that backs up the insult.
Jim McCulloch
As in "Lafayette, we are here"? Oops, that was the 20th century. And
who _was_ that guy Lafayette, anyway?
>----------------------------------------------------------------------
>"Isreal is an artificial country. The Bolshevics (jews) destroyed
>russia so that it could rob the Russians blind. They are like a
>disease, disrupting all conventions so that they can implant their
>agenda as though it were always there. Great americans throughout our
>history have warned of thier treachery. Thomas Jefferson, Benjamin
>Franklin, Henry Ford, Billy Graham and many, many more have warned of
>the havoc they will cause." -- alohacyberian
So who is this illiterate neo-Nazi imbecile you are quoting?
Best regards,
--Jim McCulloch
Baudolino
> the Chinese are predicted to pass the US economically by 2020 and the
> Indians are not far behind
>
Baudolino
"Captain Compassion" <res0...@NOSPAMverizon.net> wrote in message
> >> >
> >> >Bush has stated that the USA will never again allow itself to be
> >> >equalled as a military or ecconomic power. If you can't take a step
back
> >> >and see the underlying threat in that statement, you should really
have
> >> >a big think about it before you post again.
> >> >
> >> So you feel that the USA should strive to be a second rate economic
> >> and military power? Do you realize how stupid that sounds? You are
> >> aptly named.... Fool!
> >>
> >I'm just wondering what Windows they are using in the US, because even
3.1
> >already had 16 colors but it seems there are plenty of Americans only
seeing
> >black and white. Not being in first place could still mean in the top 10
and
> >is a good score considering there are well over 150 countries.
> >
> At the time the US first went after Iraq they had the 5th largest Army
> in the world with some of the largest oil reserves. How good was 5th
> place?
>
>
who
Wyle Coyote wrote:
> x-no-archive: yes
> P. Dribble <y...@haha.net> wrote in message
> news:uu5mf4o...@corp.supernews.com...
> > They don't call them Euro-weenies for nuttin'
>
> They're better than you American Skanks!
> I visited Europe last summer and love the people!
Good stay there you deserve each other.
who
FUBAR wrote:
> Your "Canadian" facts are STUPID. If Canada had to defend itself and
> spend "BILLIONS" on protecting it's borders rather than lean on your
> neighbor "AMERICA" to your south, you in Canada would suffer budget
> problems also. Canada is like a big stinking wart on America's ass
> sucking off our defense and economy and you claim your "Budget" is
> healthy? Try defending yourself against a "REAL" military without
> America guarding your backdoor moose humper. Canada would be obliterated
> frozen brain boy. Your budget "surplus" is due to American military
> protection and our economy on your doorstep. If located anywhere else
> geographically Canada would be a banana republic eating shit.
> >
> >
vonroach
>It speaks volumes that you always stop contributing to a discussion as soon
>as numbers and references are used.
Only if they are fraudulent statistics used for propaganda purposes as all your
hate tantrums produce.
vonroach
>Baudolino" <baud...@wi.rr.com> wrote in message
>news:02BE9.80774$uw6.1...@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...> Just check
>http://www.undp.org/hdr2001/back.pdf and you will see there is no
>> A shorter book than the European war heroes is probably the list with
>> American inventions. Besides pizza with pineapple, what's more on that
>list?
>
>Electricity, bifocals, the cotton gin, the harmonica, the telephone, the
>telegraph, the light bulb, the bomb, the moon walk (literally), rock and
>roll, the blues, bar-b-que, the laser...
Assembly line, steam boat, air brakes for trains, safe couplings for trains, the
Pullman sleeping car, air plane, transoceanic airline, vacuum tube, transistor,
computer, internet, trip to moon and back, nuclear generation of power,
cardiovascular surgery,... really the list is too long to continue. I should
perhaps mention the hotdog, often incorrectly referred to as a weiner or
frankfurter. Chop suey and pizza pie and the eskimo pie.
Only in Europe or the europe want-a-bes in Canada and Argentina would they put
pineapple on pizza.
Jim McCulloch
<nospam...@cox.net> wrote:
>> Wars are often foolish. Our only intelligence on the international stage
>has
>> been in staying out of large international wars, up until World War One,
>> when we began to join in the common foolishness;
>
>Don't act like WWI was some terrible calamity foisted on Europe by others.
>Eupopeans started it and it took the Americans to finish it.
Did you learn to talk this way by watching old John Wayne movies?
> now, of course, we believe
>> we can use our technological superiority to fight in the future what in
>> American English we will call bloodless war, since we intend, much as
>other
>> imperial powers of the past who imagined a permanent strategic or
>> technological superiority, to fight wars with involve only the blood of
>> others. This intention is certainly arrogant, and may be a prelude to one
>of
>> the "incredible blunders" like those you mentioned above, which all were
>> predicated on certainties hardly more foolish, except in retrospect, than
>> our own.
>
>I can't even follow that two sentance paragraph, let alone respond to it.
In simple English, every empire has imagined itself invincible, and
that mistake has led to the downfall of every empire, and will lead to
the downfall of ours.
>> > To Americans, Europeans are not the brightest people in the
>> > world.
>>
>> Um, perhaps we are not looking at their best and brightest. I vaguely
>recall
>> that Mr. Einstein, Mr. Planck, Mr. Bohr, Mr. Fermi, and Mr. Heisenberg,
>all
>> as one small example in one small area of human endeavor, were Europeans,
>> and modern Europeans at that. This kind of thing can be elaborated on in
>> other areas, but I won't belabor the point.
>
>
>Oh, this is getting good!!! Of the four esteemed gentlemen you mention can
>you name the two that were American citizens?
>Betcha can't.
Um. So they were not Europeans? Odd. My brother-in-law, born in
Germany, is an American citizen, but is most definitely a European.
You don't seem to get the point, which is that Doug's statement that
in the eyes of a certain kind of low-wattage American, Europeans seem
not very bright, constitutes what we call unintentional irony.
>> >and incapable of even defending themselves.
>>
>> Odd, that you would construe the lack of that at which every schoolyard
>> bully excels, as backwardness. One would think that military prowess and
>> backwardness are unrelated qualities--if one were rational, perhaps.
>
>Not backwardness, just cowardice.
So, the lack of the ability to beat the shit out of the weak is not
backwardness, but cowardice? I don't think even John Wayne would
follow you there, Rick. Perhaps that was not what you intended to say?
What _did_ you intend to say? You are not making much sense.
>> >Their
>> > Military leaders were laughing stock,
>>
>> Actually, I think some of the campaigns of European generals, including
>some
>> modern ones, are studied even now in our own military academies.
>
>Yeah, as lessons in what NOT to do. The sad fact of the matter is that the
>only good European generals of the 20th century were all German.
Well, the Russian and British Generals muddled through, not
necessarily even with American guidance.
But, y'know, this business of "my generals can beat up your generals"
is pretty stupid, isn't it?
>> >and the shortest book in
>> > the world is the list of Italian/French war heroes.
>>
>> This is very stupid, Doug, and, (need I mention it?) profoundly arrogant.
>> The soldiers who died bravely at Verdun, in numbers Americans can't even
>> imagine, were for the most part, um, European, and about half of them
>> French.
>
>Stop arguing Doug's point. The reason these men died is because the anceint
>French General Staff was incapable of changing their tactics to meet the
>advances of technology. While frontal assaults worked well for the French
>in 1871 during the Franco-Prussian War they were disastorous against the
>German machine gun in 1914. And those men at Verdun did not die bravely -
>they were wasted.
So let me get this straight: if one can demonstrate that, say, the
firemen who died in two tall buildings in New York City a year ago did
so because of the technological backwardness of their organization,
faulty tactics, and poor leadership, that they DID NOT DIE BRAVELY?
Come on, Rick. That's not what you are trying to say, is it? Ergo,
that is not what you are trying to say about the brave French soldiers
who died at Verdun, either. Am I correct? Or did I miss something? If
so, what did I miss?
> To extend this a little, the soldiers who saved Churchill's, and
>> our, bacon at Stalingrad, were Russian, and _all_ the soldiers who died
>> bravely at Stalingrad, in numbers Americans can't even imagine, were, um,
>> European.
>
>Once again, you confuse statistics with facts. The reason that Russian
>casualties were so high was Zukov's total disregard for the value of his
>soldiers and the appaulingly inadequate equipping of the Red Army. Unarmed
>men were expected to run across open fields in the face of an entrenced
>enemy and pick up the rifle of the fallen man in front of them to continue
>the assualt.
So, an American general, in the same circumstances, poorly equipped,
would have, what? Surrendered? Remember, the Russians won at
Stalingrad, and turned the tide of the second world war.
>American
>> soldiers in WWII, when surrounded and defeated, very readily surrendered.
>> Indeed some of them, like General MacArthur, ran away after being
>defeated.
>
>First, cite one example of American soldiers "readily" surrendering.
Bataan
>Second, why are you again arguing the opposite point? If it wasn't cowardly
>for the French to surrender, why is it then somehow dishonorable for
>Americans, when surrounded and defeated, to do the same thing?
I think you have discovered my point.
>As far as MacArthur is concerned, it's better to run and fight another day
>then do what the French did in Vichey France. Collaberation and
>surrendering of Jews to the Nazi death-machine is not an example of France's
>finest hour.
No. Nor was Nazism itself Europe's finest hour. But most of the evils
modern Europe exhibited were due to recrudescent nationalism (Nazism
is not the only instance of it). If you will examine Doug's claims, or
perhaps, your own, you may see a problem, because the the
nationalistic chest-thumping they exhibit is the sine qua non that
made possible the very evils that we decry in modern European history.
Was that sentence too complicated for you?
>> > If there is a battle to be lost, a country to be surrendered, it
>> > seems the Europeans will find a way to do it, and then whine
>> > because America did not help them recover what they lost fast
>> > enough . . ( with American blood of course).
>>
>> With American blood? I guess you have never really looked at the casualty
>> figures for WWI and for WWII. Do so, and you will be more humble.
>
>Again, nothing says that because you got more people killed then the other
>guy you're somehow superior or more brave or more worthy.
I certainly didn't say that. Rather, Doug was saying the opposite,
which is of course, equally false.
>> If you are trying to say that they were dancing in the streets about 911,
>> thqt is quite incorrect. Most Europeans at that moment were on our side.
>> Since then, of course, Mr. Bush and his axis of imbecility have certainly
>> managed to squander that sympathy and good will, if nothing else through
>> gratuitous insults to our allies, and through a profound arrogance.
>
>No, he wasn't saying that. "Dancing and dodging" was a metaphor for
>European inaction and unwillingness to act resolutely to a situation that is
>actually more threatening to them then to us. In 20 years one-fourth of all
>Europeans will be over the age of 60. Today it's one in five. If they
>can't, or won't, defend themselves by themselves, how can they expect to do
>it with fewer people of military service age?
With young immigrants? Kind of the same way we will be doing?
>And, with immigration from
>the Middle East and Northern Africa increasing year by year, Europe will be
>facing radical Islamic terrorism on a far greater scale then we will. But
>that doesn't matter, you used it (albeit ineffectively) to pursue your
>anti-American propoganda.
Who says I am anti-American? Admittedly, I don't pass Doug's test of
Americanism, which is simply that one is not a proper American if one
are not an idiot, but Doug is not running things, fortunately. But
_anti_ American? Never.
>Jim, you seem more attuned to the European point of view and lifestyle.
>Have you considered moving there - permenantly?
Europe has its charms. But no, I haven't.
Best regards,
--Jim McCulloch
vonroach
>Historically the invention of fission as a method of releasing nuclear
>energy is attributed to Leo Szilad, a Jewish Hungarian (who eventually
>became an American). He actually took out a patent on it in GB. He is the
>one who alerted Einstein to the possibility of a Nazi nuke. The biulding of
>the nuke, though, has to be credited to the americans.
There was a lot of work in progress on atomic and nuclear structure long before
WW2. The atom had already been split in a lab under the football stands at the
University of Chicago. Study of the possible uses of nuclear power (including
the making of a bomb) were already in progress before the publicized visit of
Prof. Einstein to Pres. Roosevelt, the visit was just to encourage FDR to
expedite the project underway. Manhattan Project was already underway in US and
Nazis also had a project underway. Shicklegruber got ahead of himself and
decided to waste nazi energy in a copy of Napoleonic stupidity in Russia, and
the real key to his success languished. But then the talent of the Germans to
conduct military disasters is well known, they should content themselves with
being a nation of shop keepers, just as the French have adapted to being a
nation of farmers since their own disasters attempting militarism. The Germans
did manage to make a few rockets based on the work of Robert Goddard, an
American, the father of modern rocketry.
vonroach
>You're right, that was kind of my point, the americans 'just' completed
>other people's ideas
Really? Where did you learn that malarkey?
DGVREIMAN
"Psycho Psycho" <psycho_...@nospam.shaw.ca> wrote in message
news:SVAE9.898572$v53.32...@news3.calgary.shaw.ca...
> >> If there is a battle to be lost, a country to be
surrendered, it
> > seems the Europeans will find a way to do it, and then whine
> > because America did not help them recover what they lost fast
> > enough . . ( with American blood of course).
> >
>
>
> America's record is so replete with victories, isn't it.
Except Bay of
> Pigs, Somalia, Vietnam (that was a truce, a truce!!!), War of
1812 (they did
> NOT burn down our White House!!) . . .
Doug Says: Please! American troops were not involved in the Bay
of Pigs and if they were Cuba would be free today. Somalia
suffered some American causalities after the main force had
left, but the American forces remaining inflicted a kill ratio of
about 60 to 1 on the Muslim terrorists! Hardly a defeat.
Vietnam was a victory for the American forces. Read the Paris
Peace accords. The North Vietnamese were forced to surrender and
provide everything America demanded at the beginning of the war.
It was not until the American Forces had left south Vietnam for
years before the Communists became brave enough to attack the
South again. Further, we WON the war of 1812! Apparently you
have never heard of the Battle of New Orleans? You know they
even did a song about it..."where the British ran so fast the
hounds couldn't catch them?"
> > Nothing is ever mentioned how American young men are manning
the
> > ramparts of Europe to this very day. Had there been a war
with
> > Russia, those were the men that would have fell first, while
the
> > Europeans would have no doubt drudged up their white flags
from
> > their war chests.
>
> Consider that America had to be dragged, several years late,
into WWI,
> several years late into WWII, and that plenty of corporate
America was
> outright collaborating with the Nazi regime (Prescott Bush for
one,
> grandaddy of Dubya), your premise is nauseating.
Doug Says: Without American support you would be speaking German
or Japanese right now...and you know it. We are not going to
interfere in European family squabbles unless we see a reason to
protect the citizens of the USA from it overflowing.
>
>
> > Consider National Health as a classic example: I realize
Canada
> > is not European, but they might as well be for all the
terrible
> > economy, high unemployment and pathetic health care they
provide
> > their citizens. France, Britain and especially Ireland fare
no
> > better, Portugal, Spain and the Netherlands are so backward
they
> > remind me of Southern Mississippi, USA.
> >
>
> Never let a few facts interfere with a good argument. It
appears this fella
> knows little or squat about Canada. Our economy avoided
recession. His is
> still in one. Our budget surplus is healthy. His was pissed
away in record
> time.
Doug Says: You are lying, or just plain stupid. America has
been in an expansion since the last quarter of 2001, and our
recent quarterly growth was an amazing 4% - even higher than
estimations. Budget surpluses are not something to be proud of -
the people own the money not the Government. Also, we have a war
to fight and borders to protect. That costs money. Further,
moron, your unemployment and dwindling country and its GNP is
pathetic...not to mention your roads, taxes, housing, and general
quality of life compared to America. The Canadians line up at
our hospitals begging for health care, and they are not very
happy with Canada. So cut the bull, we all know which is the
best country.
>
> > We also find ourselves bewildered at the so-called "United
> > Nations" that keeps passing resolution after resolution
against
> > Israel while the Palestinians keep sending over murder
bombers
> > after murder bombers to murder innocent Israelis. It's like
those
> > UN fools cannot hear the explosions? So what do they do?
> >
>
> Try to maintain objectivity while condemning crimes on both
sides, actually.
>
> > From the birth of our nation we have either been fighting the
> > Europeans, or sending our young men to die for them. Just
once I
> > would like to see some appreciation, some empathy for the
attacks
> > on America, and some loyalty to the preservation of the
leader of
> > the free world by a solid European Union.
> >
>
> You have perfectly phrased the sort of arrogance that every
non-American is
> getting tired of hearing. Bravo.
Doug Says: I think you miss my point. Americans do not care
what Europeans think, we only care what is right, and true.
Europe should be begging to help us, that is unless they are
ingrates.
>
>
> > America should not need to "go a begging" for European
support to
> > defend our country. The European nations should be scrambling
to
> > support us. They should be grateful, and loyal, and as
willing to
> > help the cause of freedom in America as America was in Europe
all
> > these many centuries.
>
> "Loyal" as puppy dog (Blair), scrambling like, like, hmmm, who
are your
> friends again? Gimme a week or two , I'll think of some more.
>
> You see people, this is what passes for thinking and analysis
in mainstream
> USA. A mixture of wounded pride, vengefulness, peevish
whigning and massive
> exaggeration. Kind of reminds me of Stalinist Russia with less
style.
Doug Says: That figures, since you are a pathetic non-American
trying to justify your existence. There has been no
exaggeration, nothing said that was not true. You just cannot
stand the truth, it makes you realize that without America you
probably would not have even been born.
Doug Grant (Tm)
>
>
vonroach
> The operative word should be "discovered". Eelecticity (for example,
>lightning, static electicity, et al) existed long before anyone "discovered"
>it.
As did all else. Natural phenomena are simply harnessed and made to do what we
innocently call useful work. Many useful applications of electricity have been
invented. Most inventions can be traced to some natural occurring phenomenon. It
is surprising when this is considered that man still doesn't understand exactly
what matter, energy, space, and time are, or even if they really exist as we
fancy they do. Ours senses discover many things that we do not fully understand.
That's why the universe (the parts we are aware of) is such an interesting and
mystifying place.
plehman
Also take note that the sports team from my area is superior to the sports
team from your area.
"Mark Williams" <wide...@btconnect.com> wrote in message
news:arvlk8$jru$1...@venus.btinternet.com...
DGVREIMAN
>
> "DGVREIMAN" <dgg...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
>
news:BKzE9.31636$hK4.2...@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net..
.
> >
> >
> > ARROGANT AMERICANS
> >
> > Most Americans are perceived in Europe as arrogant. The
Europeans
> > that have never lived in America cannot understand why
Americans
> > always act so superior. There are a few reasons:
> >
> > Americans for the most part view Europe as a place that would
not
> > exist today without American support. Americans witnessed the
> > incredible blunders of the French and British during WWI and
WWII
> > (Verdun, Dieppe, Dunkirk, Holland, Maginot Line, deals with
> > Hitler, Vichy France, Serbia, Bosnia, El Duce, Franco, Adolph
> > Hitler, Communism, etc . . . etc . . . ) And more recently,
the
> > wanton slaughter in Bosnia and Serbia again. Once again,
America
> > to the rescue.
> >
> > world. In fact, they seem incredibly backward to the American
> > middle class, and incapable of even defending themselves.
Their
> > Military leaders were laughing stock, and the shortest book
in
> > the world is the list of Italian/French war heroes.
> >
it
> > seems the Europeans will find a way to do it, and then whine
> > because America did not help them recover what they lost fast
> > enough . . ( with American blood of course).
> >
the
> > ramparts of Europe to this very day. Had there been a war
with
> > Russia, those were the men that would have fell first, while
the
> > Europeans would have no doubt drudged up their white flags
from
> > their war chests.
> >
> > Even today we maintain Europe's defenses with American troops
and
> > bases at a tremendous cost to America . . . while those
nations
> > we defend enjoy budgets that do not necessitate a major
defense
> > bite. That means Europeans can enjoy domestic benefits that
> > Americans cannot afford, but even then, the Europeans manage
to
> > screw it up!
> >
Canada
> > is not European, but they might as well be for all the
terrible
> > economy, high unemployment and pathetic health care they
provide
> > their citizens. France, Britain and especially Ireland fare
no
> > better, Portugal, Spain and the Netherlands are so backward
they
> > remind me of Southern Mississippi, USA.
> >
where
> > Nations" that keeps passing resolution after resolution
against
> > Israel while the Palestinians keep sending over murder
bombers
> > after murder bombers to murder innocent Israelis. It's like
those
> > UN fools cannot hear the explosions? So what do they do?
> >
> > They send some fool into the Palestinian area to work with
the
> > Palestinians. The Palestinians shoot at some Israeli
soldiers,
the
> > UN is howling and screaming, holding meetings, proclaiming
> > investigations, and using good ol American money to launch a
> > complete investigation into this unfortunate but
understandable
> > accident.....yet hundreds of innocent Israelis are being
murdered
> > on buses, in their beds and Israeli children are being
> > specifically targeted by the Palestinian goons, and what does
the
> > UN do? Absolutely nothing.
> >
killed
> > as a result, and the UN rolls out the guard and declares
> > investigative war on Israel. Meanwhile thousands of innocent
> > Israelis are murdered or maimed and the UN "averts its eyes"
and
> > passes yet another half baked, half thought-out, well paid by
the
> > Arab league, outrageous resolution against Israel? If
Americans
> > did not know better, we would believe the UN thinks it is the
> > Israelis sending in the murder bombers and not the
Palestinian
> > terrorists!
> >
> > Europeans, or sending our young men to die for them. Just
once I
> > would like to see some appreciation, some empathy for the
attacks
> > on America, and some loyalty to the preservation of the
leader of
> > the free world by a solid European Union.
> >
support to
> > defend our country. The European nations should be scrambling
to
> > support us. They should be grateful, and loyal, and as
willing to
> > help the cause of freedom in America as America was in Europe
all
> > these many centuries.
> >
comes
> > to Europeans. We cannot ever think of anything good that has
> > happened to our nation that originated from Europe - except
> > perhaps the people that knew enough to escape from it and
came
> > here.
> >
> >
> >
"Baudolino" <baud...@wi.rr.com> wrote in message
news:02BE9.80774$uw6.1...@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
> Just check http://www.undp.org/hdr2001/back.pdf and you will
see there is no
> reason for the American Arrogance. They are in SIXTH place!
Wake up
> Americans, it's not the 1950s anymore, it's the 21 century.
Doug Says: If you are going to use UN statistical models you
might as well proclaim your stupidity up front. I told you that
model was ridiculous as it does not include comparisons or
smoothing factors for population size or diversity of population.
I told you this at least a dozen times, but you seem to have a
problem comprehending basic facts. Properly calculated, America
is overwhelmingly first in the world....as usual.
Things are
> changing, in Europe probably faster than the US. Ans as I told
you before
> Doug, In Canada 100% of the population has access to necesary
drugs, in the
> US that's 99%
Doug Says: Your facts and figures are not only idiotic, they are
preposterous. The Canadians are lining up at our border
hospitals for treatment. In fact, there are so many running away
from the Canadian health care system our border hospitals are
starting to take Canadian money.....
> It speaks volumes that you always stop contributing to a
discussion as soon
> as numbers and references are used.
Doug Says: I have answer every one of your idiotic posts. You
have no real references, no real numbers, no facts, no figures,
nothing to back up anything you say. When you are caught lying,
you just snip and paste replies out of context then reply to your
own distortions. Your posting is disingenuous at best, and your
figures are laughable. I have about a dozen examples of your
snipping out of context routine and then replying to your
distortions. Also, you berate America, falsely claim Europe is
better, but you choose to live in Wisconsin. Does the word
"hypocrite" mean anything to you?
>
> A shorter book than the European war heroes is probably the
list with
> American inventions. Besides pizza with pineapple, what's more
on that list?
Doug Says: Whew! You are dumber than I thought. Check out the
US Patent office, if you have the fifty lifetimes it will take
just to read the technology and medicine patents alone.
Doug Grant (Tm)
> >
>
>
DGVREIMAN
"Fool" <nob...@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:3DE2E476...@nowhere.com...
> Americans are perceived as arrogant in many quarters, not only
Europe.
> The reasons (aside from political & ecconomic totalitarianism)
should be
> obvious if you read back over your post.
>
> The USA doing its part in WW2 (which - wake up baby - was not
won
> exclusively by thee) does not give it divine right dictate
military
> policy to the other free nations of the world.
Doug Says: Who made the tanks the Russians were driving? Where
were the Spitfires made the Brits were flying? Who was the
commander in Chief of the Allied forces when the winning started?
Of course America won WWII....without America all of Europe and
Russia would be speaking German right now.
If your population wasn't
> so saturated in its own self-righteous propaganda, you might
even have
> cause to doubt your government's forgein policies, as many
Europeans
> rightly do. Increasingly it seems that America's traditional
virtues
> (freedom of speech, the right to question authority,
tollerance) are
> being forgotten in what appears to be a pragmatic response to a
tough
> situation, but if followed to its conclusion, will bring about
your
> doom.
Doug Says: You keep spewing this anti-American diatribe, but
whenever I ask for some specifics, you run and hide. "Put up or
shut up" - as they say in America.
>
> Bush has stated that the USA will never again allow itself to
be
> equalled as a military or ecconomic power. If you can't take a
step back
> and see the underlying threat in that statement, you should
really have
> a big think about it before you post again.
Doug Says: Why should I feel threatened by our desire to stop
the proliferation of weapons of mass destruction by tyrants,
draconian theocratic countries and potentates? We should disarm
them. These weapons threaten the entire world. If America and
Britain (and NATO) do not take control of this situation we will
not have a future....any of us.
Doug Grant (Tm)
ELC
If located anywhere else
> geographically Canada would be a banana republic eating shit.
> >
I suppose Mexico is also doing so well because of the US.
Maxim Khesin
> >energy is attributed to Leo Szilad, a Jewish Hungarian (who eventually
> >became an American). He actually took out a patent on it in GB. He is the
> >one who alerted Einstein to the possibility of a Nazi nuke. The biulding
of
> >the nuke, though, has to be credited to the americans.
> There was a lot of work in progress on atomic and nuclear structure long
before
> WW2. The atom had already been split in a lab under the football stands at
the
> University of Chicago.
Atom has been "split" before, originally by Rutheford, a new Zelander who
lived in GB.
And, yes, they had the first sustained chain nuclear reaction in Chicago,
under the command of Enrico Fermi.
Despite all that America still rules (otherwise why would all those great
scientists end up in the US?)
:)
!
Captain Compassion
>the Chinese are predicted to pass the US economically by 2020 and the
>Indians are not far behind
>
You know... I don't think so. I remember back in the 80's Japan and
Germany were set to surpass the US. Guess what. They didn't.
Three of the many things that China and India lack are:
1. Resources
2. Infrastructure
3. Ready Markets.
dmtsymphony
As far as Canada leeching off the U.S. for defense, etc....keep in mind
that we don't need your defense, nor is it there for us.If someone
attacked Canada, I doubt the U.S. would be of any help at all.But this
is irrelevant because Canada will not be attacked, unless it is by the
U.S., because the world doesn't hate Canada like it hates America,
because Canadians respect the other countries of the world while
Americans just feel superior to the other countries of the world.It is
that arrogance that has led to the countless idiotic policies over the
years that have made the U.S. the pariah that it is.
DOWN WITH THE EMPIRE!!!
Mark Williams
news:tf37uu0keo9k0bn5g...@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 26 Nov 2002 05:29:05 GMT, "NeuroManson" <moc.ibtta@dogegoops>
wrote:
>
> > The operative word should be "discovered". Eelecticity (for example,
> >lightning, static electicity, et al) existed long before anyone
"discovered"
> >it.
> As did all else. Natural phenomena are simply harnessed and made to do
what we
> innocently call useful work. Many useful applications of electricity have
been
> invented. Most inventions can be traced to some natural occurring
phenomenon. It
> is surprising when this is considered that man still doesn't understand
exactly
> what matter, energy, space, and time are,
No. You don't. We do.
DGVREIMAN
"Captain Compassion" <res0...@NOSPAMverizon.net> wrote in
>
> The history of many countries in Europe is glorious but it is
still
> history. Europe is the past and America is the present and the
future.
> The European psyche suffers from the same sense of lost
greatness as
> do the Moslems. The Moslems have an advantage. At least they
> procreate. In many Eurpoean countries the population is too
> "sophisticated" to procreate at a replacement level. Workers
have to
> ne imported mostly from Moslem countries. Eventually Islam will
win
> through immigration and procreation what what they failed to
win at
> Tours and Vienna. Perhaps Eurpoeans realize where their future
lies
> and even now accept the and defer to the tide of the Prophet.
Doug Says: What tide? If you are claiming that Europeans are
going to convert to Islam you are delusional. They may not be
smart, but they are not *that* stupid! Muslims are being
integrated into European cultures not the other way around. The
Draconian laws that radical Islam projects are country to many
existing criminal statutes in Europe. The Muslims that come
there with this 8th century ideology might as well be coming from
Mars.
>
> No. I consider GB and Ireland as seperate from Europe.
Doug Says: That's nice. They don't.
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------
-------
> "Isreal is an artificial country. The Bolshevics (jews)
destroyed
> russia so that it could rob the Russians blind.
Doug Says: Considering the Communist's backed every enemy of
Israel in existence, your claim that somehow Jews were
Bolsheviks/Communists is about as preposterous as it gets.
> "In the end they will lay their freedom at our feet and say to
us,
> 'Make us your slaves, but feed us.'" -- Dosteovsky
>
> Joseph R. Darancette
>
Doug Says: We pay our farmers not to grow too many crops you
moron. If America wanted to do so it could easily feed the
world. IF the Muslim War Lords would stop stealing the food we
send, or claiming it is coming from them, we probably would.
Doug Grant (Tm)
DGVREIMAN
> Doug, you had a wonderfull story, only I think you missed out
on the fact
> that the US only takes part in 7 of the current 15 peacekeeping
operations
> of the UN? That's as much as Argentina and 3 less than for
example Denmark.
> The US are for example not present in the MONUC and UNAMSIL,
two huge
> operations in Africa. You probably never heard of them guess
and to be
> honest I've never heard anything about these two in the news
here. Is there
> a slight change the American media does not cover all the
issues going on in
> this world?
> Did you know that in September 2002 643 of the total of 44,359
were from the
> US (LESS than 1.5%). Before 9/11, (August 2001) the number of
American
> soldiers in peace missions was 747, as compared to over 6000
for Bangladesh
> (you know, the third world country that's under water half of
the time)!! US
> saving the world, my ass! They just have their flags, stories
and media
> everywere but the numbers tell us it's only show.
> Don't believe me, go to www.un.org and check for yourself.
> Start to understand how the rest of the world feels about the
show-offs?
Doug Says: What I understand is that you posted some nonsense
and you are patheticlly trying to use it to reflect on what
America provides the world. You are about ten thousand items
short, as usual. Further, America does not participate in
programs to help War Lords sell food to starving people as some
of the moronic Europeans seem to want to do.
We are not going to help the enemies of the free world
proliferate, and use the money they are gleaning from selling
food to starving people to buy weapons to use against us. The
Europeans clearly are either too stupid, or are getting too much
money under the table to care who's pockets they are lining.
Posting the fact that we refuse to participate in programs that
help War Lords and tyrants hold sway over starving people hardly
qualifies as justification to claim America does not save the
world. Without America, without American inventions, technology,
medicine and economic aid, half the countries in the world would
go under in a week. Why do you hide from posting the financial,
economic and military aid we provide other countries?
Further, you claim that Europe is better than America, yet you
prefer to live in Wisconsin. I am sure you can pronounce the
world "hypocrite" if you study English a bit longer.
Doug Grant (Tm)
>
>
DGVREIMAN
Doug Says: Utter nonsense. The predictions assume America is
going to stand still. I assure you it will not. Further, these
models assume American markets for their products. So what if
Americans just decide to buy American? What then?
Doug Grant (Tm)
"Asylum" <s...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:arvdtl$ecg$1...@lust.ihug.co.nz...
> the Chinese are predicted to pass the US economically by 2020
and the
> Indians are not far behind
>
> "Captain Compassion" <res0...@NOSPAMverizon.net> wrote in
message
> news:3de2fe6c...@news.verizon.net...
> > On Tue, 26 Nov 2002 13:04:04 +1000, Fool <nob...@nowhere.com>
wrote:
> >
> > >Americans are perceived as arrogant in many quarters, not
only Europe.
> > >The reasons (aside from political & ecconomic
totalitarianism) should be
> > >obvious if you read back over your post.
> > >
> > >The USA doing its part in WW2 (which - wake up baby - was
not won
> > >exclusively by thee) does not give it divine right dictate
military
> > >policy to the other free nations of the world. If your
population wasn't
> > >so saturated in its own self-righteous propaganda, you might
even have
> > >cause to doubt your government's forgein policies, as many
Europeans
> > >rightly do. Increasingly it seems that America's traditional
virtues
> > >(freedom of speech, the right to question authority,
tollerance) are
> > >being forgotten in what appears to be a pragmatic response
to a tough
> > >situation, but if followed to its conclusion, will bring
about your
> > >doom.
> > >
> > >Bush has stated that the USA will never again allow itself
to be
> > >equalled as a military or ecconomic power. If you can't take
a step back
> > >and see the underlying threat in that statement, you should
really have
> > >a big think about it before you post again.
> > >
> > So you feel that the USA should strive to be a second rate
economic
> > and military power? Do you realize how stupid that sounds?
You are
> > aptly named.... Fool!
> >
> > >
> > >
> > >> Doug Grant (Tm)
> > >
> >
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------
-------
> > "Isreal is an artificial country. The Bolshevics (jews)
destroyed
> > russia so that it could rob the Russians blind. They are like
a
> > disease, disrupting all conventions so that they can implant
their
> > agenda as though it were always there. Great americans
throughout our
> > history have warned of thier treachery. Thomas Jefferson,
Benjamin
> > Franklin, Henry Ford, Billy Graham and many, many more have
warned of
> > the havoc they will cause." -- alohacyberian
> >
> > "If you can't eat their food, drink their liquor, fuck their
> > whores and take their money and STILL vote AGAINST them, you
> > don't belong in this business." -- Jess Unruh.
> >
> > "In the end they will lay their freedom at our feet and say
to us,
> > 'Make us your slaves, but feed us.'" -- Dosteovsky
> >
> > Joseph R. Darancette
> > res0...@NOSPAMverizon.net
>
>
Baudolino
>
> <snip>
>
> Doug Says: You are lying, or just plain stupid. America has
> been in an expansion since the last quarter of 2001, and our
> recent quarterly growth was an amazing 4% - even higher than
> estimations. Budget surpluses are not something to be proud of -
> the people own the money not the Government. Also, we have a war
> to fight and borders to protect. That costs money. Further,
> moron, your unemployment and dwindling country and its GNP is
> pathetic...not to mention your roads, taxes, housing, and general
> quality of life compared to America. The Canadians line up at
> our hospitals begging for health care, and they are not very
> happy with Canada. So cut the bull, we all know which is the
> best country.
> >
explain myself again. Norway is FIRST, United States SIXTH. American roads
sucks, they do boink, boink, boink all the time, even the interstates. In
Canada 100% (meaning EVERYONE) of the people have access to necesary
healthcare, in the US this is 99% (meaning: NOT everyone).
Budget surplus is something to be proud of, it means that politicians did
not spend more money than their citizen are having. Meaning: Their
politicians did well.
>
> Doug Says: That figures, since you are a pathetic non-American
> trying to justify your existence. There has been no
> exaggeration, nothing said that was not true. You just cannot
> stand the truth, it makes you realize that without America you
> probably would not have even been born.
>
In other words, your whole story was based on exaggaration, most of it was
not even true. We can stand the truth but not the American Lie.
Oh, about the not being born without the US. You probably don't remember my
posting in which I showed you the infant mortality in the US was HIGHER than
in Canada?
Doug, I think the numbers speak for itself, you are an ignorant, arrogant
liar.
Baudolino
By reading the postings, something you should do.
Baudolino
Or, in other words, America is just completing inventions from others.
Baudolino
"Maxim Khesin" <ma...@NtOoSuPrAoM.edu> wrote in message
news:nGME9.181106$Up6.34...@twister.nyc.rr.com...
Life in the US is excellent if you're having a good job and can afford
insurance. (Besides the roads that is, they really suck)
Baudolino
Read the postings the Wright brothers were in 1903, the French had a plane
in 1890. All other inventions are mainly the use of inventions like rocket
science (Germany), steam engines, nuclear energy. But yes, I never want to
claim the US didn't invent anything, the only thing is that the list which
Americans claim to have invented is longer than what they really invented.
Oh, about the pineapple pizza, that seems to be a joint effort of some
Hawaian islands and Germany
s01omon
> They may not be smart, but they are not *that* stupid!
Gee Doug, it really is amazing that you've found Europeans getting
the impression that the Americans are arrogant.
s01omon
--
I think that God in creating Man somewhat overestimated his ability.
Oscar Wilde (1854-1900)
(o_
Registered Linux User: 286414 //\
http://counter.li.org/ V_/_
Jim McCulloch
wrote:
> In
>Canada 100% (meaning EVERYONE) of the people have access to necesary
>healthcare, in the US this is 99% (meaning: NOT everyone).
Well, you are being excessively generous with American medical care. I
don't recall the exact figures, but I think it is around 42 million
Americans who lack health insurance, and hence, have little access to
necessary healthcare. Now it is true that a homeless man living under
a bridge, if he gets run over by a car, will be taken to an emergency
room to die. It is also true that if you are an uninsured person and
get sick enough, you can go to a public hospital emergency room, and
they will try to save your life. But that's not much in the way of
necessary medical care.
This is a pretty barbaric system.
Best regards,
--Jim McCulloch
Made In America
"ELC" <er...@elcmedia.com> wrote in message
news:ebfa4074.02112...@posting.google.com...
THEY TAKE OUR MONEY TOO. Do you see other countries trying to get the US
dollar changed to, lets say, pesos? Hell no. Now, like most other countries,
if their government used OUR WELFARE checks for the good of their people and
NOT line their pockets, then maybe the CANADIANS can stay in Canada for real
health care and Mexicans can eat something other than CORN.
Baudolino
> On Tue, 26 Nov 2002 02:31:24 GMT, "Baudolino" <baud...@wi.rr.com> wrote:
>
> >It speaks volumes that you always stop contributing to a discussion as
soon
> >as numbers and references are used.
>
your
> hate tantrums produce.
So far I used international accepted statistics (only in one case I used the
Belgium business news) and give references where I found them. The whole
hate thing is brought in by Doug, I only claimed the US wasn't the best and
backed my statements with numbers.
But hey, it seems you're not even reading all postings before you reply, how
can I expect you to check numbers and publications?
The arrogant Americans are to afraid to use statistics because they know
they LOOSE (1.5 % Americans in Peace keeping missions!!)
Come with numbers, prove me wrong! Just stop with the arguments that don't
hold because I will prove you wrong. Unfortunatly some people here only see
black and white and don't see the difference between a tantrum and reality.
Click start -> settings -> Control Panel -> Display
Go to the Settings Tab and change color quality in at least 16 (try 32 bit
if you have a decent machine)
Made In America
> "DGVREIMAN" <dgg...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
> news:YbME9.25910$vM1.1...@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
> >
> > <snip>
> >
> > Doug Says: You are lying, or just plain stupid. America has
> > been in an expansion since the last quarter of 2001, and our
> > recent quarterly growth was an amazing 4% - even higher than
> > estimations. Budget surpluses are not something to be proud of -
> > the people own the money not the Government. Also, we have a war
> > to fight and borders to protect. That costs money. Further,
> > moron, your unemployment and dwindling country and its GNP is
> > pathetic...not to mention your roads, taxes, housing, and general
> > quality of life compared to America. The Canadians line up at
> > our hospitals begging for health care, and they are not very
> > happy with Canada. So cut the bull, we all know which is the
> > best country.
> > >
> Doug, I gave you the numbers a couple of times before, but I'll try to
> explain myself again. Norway is FIRST, United States SIXTH. American roads
> sucks, they do boink, boink, boink all the time, even the interstates.
Because OUR highways were here for MUCH longer than your dirt roads. MORE
people have vehicles AND WE HAVE MORE ROADS. Dumb ass
>In
> Canada 100% (meaning EVERYONE) of the people have access to necesary
> healthcare, in the US this is 99% (meaning: NOT everyone).
Really? Then why do the Canadians come here for REAL health care and NOT
wait for 6 months to get service.
> Budget surplus is something to be proud of, it means that politicians did
> not spend more money than their citizen are having. Meaning: Their
> politicians did well.
>
AND since we give FAR more $$$$ to the world than Canada,
> >
> > Doug Says: That figures, since you are a pathetic non-American
> > trying to justify your existence. There has been no
> > exaggeration, nothing said that was not true. You just cannot
> > stand the truth, it makes you realize that without America you
> > probably would not have even been born.
> >
>
> In other words, your whole story was based on exaggaration, most of it was
> not even true. We can stand the truth but not the American Lie.
> Oh, about the not being born without the US. You probably don't remember
my
> posting in which I showed you the infant mortality in the US was HIGHER
than
> in Canada?
>
> Doug, I think the numbers speak for itself, you are an ignorant, arrogant
> liar.
>
>
Face it, EVEN THE EXPERTS KNOW, Canada would not EXIST as it is WITHOUT the
US.
How much $$$ does Canada provide for Defense. NOT SHIT. Our SALVATION ARMY
could kick your ass. If there was an invasion of Canada, without the USA,
you would fall faster than FRANCE
Made In America
You really need to get out more. You really can't be this stupid
Made In America
and you can change jobs if you want, buy what you want, say what you want,
eat what you want, go where you want, do what you want, worship what you
want. NUF SAID..
I don't see everyone clamoring to get to CANADA, unless of course to sneak
across our border.
Captain Compassion
The Europrans need not convet to Islam. Already Moslem minorities
within France and Germany exert enough political power to effect
governmental opinion on Israel. How well do you feel that Moslems are
being intregrated into US culture?
>> No. I consider GB and Ireland as seperate from Europe.
>
>Doug Says: That's nice. They don't.
>>
>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------
>-------
>> "Isreal is an artificial country. The Bolshevics (jews)
>destroyed
>> russia so that it could rob the Russians blind.
>
>Doug Says: Considering the Communist's backed every enemy of
>Israel in existence, your claim that somehow Jews were
>Bolsheviks/Communists is about as preposterous as it gets.
>
>
>> "In the end they will lay their freedom at our feet and say to
>us,
>> 'Make us your slaves, but feed us.'" -- Dosteovsky
>>
>> Joseph R. Darancette
>>
>Doug Says: We pay our farmers not to grow too many crops you
>moron. If America wanted to do so it could easily feed the
>world. IF the Muslim War Lords would stop stealing the food we
>send, or claiming it is coming from them, we probably would.
>
>Doug Grant (Tm)
>
Wonder why you would call someone a moron who's basically agreeing
with you?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
"Isreal is an artificial country. The Bolshevics (jews) destroyed
russia so that it could rob the Russians blind. They are like a
disease, disrupting all conventions so that they can implant their
agenda as though it were always there. Great americans throughout our
history have warned of thier treachery. Thomas Jefferson, Benjamin
Franklin, Henry Ford, Billy Graham and many, many more have warned of
the havoc they will cause." -- alohacyberian
"If you can't eat their food, drink their liquor, fuck their
whores and take their money and STILL vote AGAINST them, you
don't belong in this business." -- Jess Unruh.
"In the end they will lay their freedom at our feet and say to us,
'Make us your slaves, but feed us.'" -- Dosteovsky
Joseph R. Darancette
res0...@NOSPAMverizon.net
SteveL
and how kind of one of them to give up his precious time to come here
and make a personal appearance to demonstrate the point.
A nice warm round of applause, people!
Made In America
"SteveL" <Ste...@stevelon.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:AGednSNDKP9...@giganews.com...
It's NOT about arrogance at all. It's about GRATITUDE, or should I say Lack
Of!
YOU HAVE NOT ADDRESSED MY POINT, only offer a bullshit one liner which
PROVES my point that JEALOUSY is very unbecoming. Like I said, how much does
Canada provide for Military Defense? NOTHING!
Make no mistake, WE PROTECT North America, Not Canada and NOT
Mexico........the UNITED STATES of AMERICA and all of her sons and daughters
die ALL over this world protecting your FREEDOM to type your tripe.
Baudolino
> Doug Says: If you are going to use UN statistical models you
> might as well proclaim your stupidity up front. I told you that
> model was ridiculous as it does not include comparisons or
> smoothing factors for population size or diversity of population.
> I told you this at least a dozen times, but you seem to have a
> problem comprehending basic facts. Properly calculated, America
> is overwhelmingly first in the world....as usual.
>
than what the UN claims. The UN might be of at some points, but I still
stick to them. One reason being that they have all there sources posted and
you keep saying the same things but NEVER backed it up with a model, number
or anything. Besides that, last time you said you would research the UN
model, so your opinion sounds prejudice.
Not that I think you can come up with smoothing factors since normally
smoothing factors are used to describe trends. In comparing countries we're
not interested in trends, neither in time or variation. So I would really
like to hear your proposal of the smoothing factors. And don't say
population size or diversity, tell how to measure diversity and what to do
with the numbers I got. Multiply it with the GNP? divide it? Explain
yourself this time, don't hide yourself behind smoothing factors, diversity
en population size.
>
> Doug Says: Your facts and figures are not only idiotic, they are
> preposterous. The Canadians are lining up at our border
> hospitals for treatment. In fact, there are so many running away
> from the Canadian health care system our border hospitals are
> starting to take Canadian money.....
>
Your getting individual situations (maybe sometimes of 1000s of people or
more) and systems (in the order of millions of people) mixed up.
>
> Doug Says: I have answer every one of your idiotic posts. You
> have no real references, no real numbers, no facts, no figures,
> nothing to back up anything you say. When you are caught lying,
> you just snip and paste replies out of context then reply to your
> own distortions. Your posting is disingenuous at best, and your
> figures are laughable. I have about a dozen examples of your
> snipping out of context routine and then replying to your
> distortions. Also, you berate America, falsely claim Europe is
> better, but you choose to live in Wisconsin. Does the word
> "hypocrite" mean anything to you?
>
I'm still waiting for an answer on impertinent question #63. Besides that, I
don't consider a posting that only proves you did not check any reference
and are just repeating yourself with more words but without facts and
references an answer, that's just reading material.
My figures laughable, give others a laugh too, explain why you think they
are funny. But instead you say: Your figures are stupid because the big Doug
thinks different. Who is the clown here?
You never caught me lying because you fail the ability to use facts and
figures to prove something wrong, the snipping is to keep a posting legible,
besides that, you can always go up in the tree and check the context.
Speaking of that, you should do that more often and you will see that I
never claimed Europe was better, never berated America (although I do with
some of its ignorant citizen) and explained to you what a hypocrite was. Did
you ever consider that Wisconsin might be better than the rest of the US.
NO, I'm not claiming this but just wondering if you thought of it. Because
if for some reason I would think that your point wouldn't make sense at all.
Or is this too confusing for you?
>
> Doug Says: Whew! You are dumber than I thought. Check out the
> US Patent office, if you have the fifty lifetimes it will take
> just to read the technology and medicine patents alone.
>
Do you know that in the US you can get a patent if you change the color of a
pill? That's were that book is filled with.
For Doug only: If you want to answer to this posting you come up with a
detailed answer on the smoothening factors or else your reply will be just
another posting ready for the trash can
Baudolino
> On Tue, 26 Nov 2002 22:13:06 +1300, "Asylum" <s...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >the Chinese are predicted to pass the US economically by 2020 and the
> >Indians are not far behind
> >
> You know... I don't think so. I remember back in the 80's Japan and
> Germany were set to surpass the US. Guess what. They didn't.
>
What year was set for surpassing the US? Because their automobile (or works
of art according to C. Bangle) industry is already leading the way.
PatLMac
wrote:
>Doug, I gave you the numbers a couple of times before, but I'll try to
>explain myself again. Norway is FIRST, United States SIXTH. American roads
>sucks, they do boink, boink, boink all the time, even the interstates. In
>Canada 100% (meaning EVERYONE) of the people have access to necesary
>healthcare, in the US this is 99% (meaning: NOT everyone).
>Budget surplus is something to be proud of, it means that politicians did
>not spend more money than their citizen are having. Meaning: Their
>politicians did well.
>
Budget surpluses are NOT something to be proud of. All a surplus
means is that the governement took more tax money from the people than
they had planned ( as a result of better than expected business ), and
hasn't figured out how to spend it yet. Be assured, ALL surpluses
disappear over time. And there are only 3 reasons for that to happen
1. Tax revenue decreased as a result of economic slowdown.
2. Tax revenue decreased as a result of the tax rate being
reduced.
3. Spending increases.
Whichever the case, budget surpluses never do the taxpayer any good.
And they only thing that surpluses show about politicians is they
can't predict economic surges any better than they can economic
downturns.
Baudolino
what's going on in the rest of the world they still can change. There are
still a lot of 'normal' people in here that see the progress in other
countries and the shortcomings in the US. US is the country of second
changes, so why not give the US a second change but condemning them?
"dmtsymphony" <dmtsy...@shaw.ca> wrote in message
news:3DE24AC9...@shaw.ca...
Baudolino
"plehman" <ple...@cox.net> wrote in message
news:xlME9.373$oa.2...@news1.east.cox.net...
> Clearly, American human beings are superior to non-American human beings.
>
> Also take note that the sports team from my area is superior to the sports
> team from your area.
>
Only if you're from Tampa Bay, if so I feel that I have to ignore you untill
the Packers kick your ass again.
SteveL
wrote:
I'm American. Just not an arrogant one.
Made In America
Why are you posting out of UK server?
Anyway, like I said, It's NOT about arrogance at all. It is about gratitude
for our sacrifices.
Baudolino
news:m8OE9.3062$Vn5.126...@newssvr30.news.prodigy.com...
is enjoying of lot of US dollars.
Besides that, the reason for other countries in dollars has to do with the
Bretton Woods agreement and the BOP deficit of the US from 1958 through
1971. There is more going on in this world than what you can see from inside
your truck, read about and learn from it.
Baudolino
"Made In America" <U...@Rules.com> wrote in message
Same comment as to Dough, your getting individuals and systems mixed up
>
> > Budget surplus is something to be proud of, it means that politicians
did
> > not spend more money than their citizen are having. Meaning: Their
> > politicians did well.
> >
>
> AND since we give FAR more $$$$ to the world than Canada,
NOOO!!! The US only spends 0.1% of total GNP for foreign aid, that's LESS
than EVERY other industrialized country!
>
> > >
> > > Doug Says: That figures, since you are a pathetic non-American
> > > trying to justify your existence. There has been no
> > > exaggeration, nothing said that was not true. You just cannot
> > > stand the truth, it makes you realize that without America you
> > > probably would not have even been born.
> > >
> >
> > In other words, your whole story was based on exaggaration, most of it
was
> > not even true. We can stand the truth but not the American Lie.
> > Oh, about the not being born without the US. You probably don't remember
> my
> > posting in which I showed you the infant mortality in the US was HIGHER
> than
> > in Canada?
> >
> > Doug, I think the numbers speak for itself, you are an ignorant,
arrogant
> > liar.
> >
> >
>
> Face it, EVEN THE EXPERTS KNOW, Canada would not EXIST as it is WITHOUT
the
> US.
Ohh, so I guess the expert tried to provide some evidence for that, show me!
>
> How much $$$ does Canada provide for Defense. NOT SHIT. Our SALVATION
ARMY
> could kick your ass. If there was an invasion of Canada, without the USA,
> you would fall faster than FRANCE
>
>
Read other postings that explain why Canada does not have to spend so much
money on defense.
Baudolino
"Made In America" <U...@Rules.com> wrote in message
besides that bangladesh has more soldiers in peace keeping forces than the
US, and so do many Asian and African countries. The only reason American
soldiers are dying all over the world is because America is fighting it's
own war. Why?? The rest of the world doesn't care as long as the US doesn't
interfere with them.
Baudolino
news:l3e7uuc2h360svubu...@4ax.com...
last so many years I would still love a budget surplus, eventhough I agree
with you.
Baudolino
"Made In America" <U...@Rules.com> wrote in message
your answer.
Baudolino
"Made In America" <U...@Rules.com> wrote in message
place. No, I won't go to jail for that but it isn't accepted either. I grew
up in a country with no minimum drinking age, lower taxes on cigarets, no
curfew or what so ever, don't claim that the US is the example of freedom.
TOO MANY RULES!
Oh yes, and check a Canadian border in the weekend, you'll see all 18-21
year old people crossing to go to a bar.
PatLMac
wrote:
trust me, you don't. Budget deficits are the ONLY thing that
keeps government spending in check. Surpluses are just an excuse for
the government to come up with new programs that won't help anybody
but their lobbyists and friends.
Thinks of deficits as the government letting you keep too much
of your money. Sounds sorta good and perverse at the same time,
doesn't it? "letting you keep too much of YOUR money". The ideal way
for them to eliminate a deficit would be to cut spending rather than
raise taxes, but in this world that's a fantasy. So let them keep
their deficit, you keep your tax money, and be happy about it for as
long as you and your countrymen can get away with it.
Made In America
What a fool. In my truck?.......I have 17 of them. Business has been good.
Mexicans DIE for our money you fool.
Now, back to your childish response. The REASON the dollar is wanted is
because it is STRONG and it is ACCEPTED ALL OVER THIS WORLD. How much would
a Canadian dollar buy in America. NOTHING. Europe, nothing, Mexico, nothing,
Egypt, Nothing. How much would the U.S. dollar buy in Canada, ANYTHING a
Canadian dollar buys plus some (I've spent a lot of time there, and in
Mexico, and in Saudi, and in Egypt and in Europe)
As for our us spending $$$$$$ on foreign help, we spend BILLIONS ACROSS THE
WORLD. My $$$$$$$ feeds and supports populations all over this world that
only gets stolen, then their government feed their people lies about the
U.S, then ask for more $$$$$$$$.
Made In America
What a nieve, silly fool. Yes, we only fought Germany twice to SAVE Europe.
How about the Soviet Union? We are the ONLY country in the world (maybe
Brittian for now) that pushes for democracy and freedom in the world.
Remember the COLD WAR. WE BROUGHT THAT TO AN END now didn't we.
>Why?? The rest of the world doesn't care as long as the US doesn't
>interfere with them.
>
AND THEIR CONQUEST TO TAKE OVER THE WORLD (ISLAM)
Made In America
THATS BECAUSE OUR GNP is OFF THE SHELF you fool. So, with that logic, I
suppost WEALTH DISTRIBUTION is what your after. I make $100 and you make
$10. You give $5 and I have to give $50 to make it even. Only in your world
and the world of all the BEGGARS.
SteveL
wrote:
>
>Why are you posting out of UK server?
I'm working here in Britain. Be back for Christmas. Then back here
again in March. I still use my Britsh email server even when I'm in
the States though. Same laptop after all.
>
>Anyway, like I said, It's NOT about arrogance at all. It is about gratitude
>for our sacrifices.
>
I'm just joking a little.
Honestly, the way I see it is this. Yeah, Europeans do have a lot to
be grateful for, and when America's heart is in the right place
there's none better. Say no more than the Marshall Plan, where we
spent billions rebuilding the defeated Axis countries, and our allies
too.. OK it was in our best interests too, but it sure went against
the grain of normal conquerors, where the defeated are made to eat
shit for centuries for losing.
But there is an arrogance. I see it myself. America was in the
position to be so generous because the US mainland was not involved.
The economy was not only left intact but was booming from all the war
production. Every other major player - bar Canada and Australia - was
decimated - even the other victors. The US almost had to rebuild the
world because it would have had nobody to trade with! Despite its
immense help, the Marshall Plan had a large element of
look-after-number-one about it too.
The Brits do get pissed off when Hollywood WW2 movies completely leave
out the contributions of anyone else. The recent movie about the
Enigma code and the sub (forget the name) had to re-write history to
get an audience in the States - nobody would go to watch the British
break the Nazi codes... Americans seem to be almost genetically
programmed at birth to forget that *Russia* beat Hitler. 80% of German
casualties were on the Eastern Front. D-Day and the Western Front,
Italy and North Africa were virtual sideshows in comparison. Yet how
many Russian generals can the average American name? How much
knowledge of the Battle of Kursk, the final straw for German hopes?
There's two sides to everything. America is good *and* bad. Americans
are generous *and* arrogant.
Made In America
> On Tue, 26 Nov 2002 18:27:19 GMT, "Made In America" <U...@Rules.com>
> wrote:
>
>
> >
> >Why are you posting out of UK server?
>
> I'm working here in Britain. Be back for Christmas. Then back here
> again in March. I still use my Britsh email server even when I'm in
> the States though. Same laptop after all.
>
Thats cool. (bet you have better teeth than most British)..... LOL
> >
> >Anyway, like I said, It's NOT about arrogance at all. It is about
gratitude
> >for our sacrifices.
> >
>
> I'm just joking a little.
>
I know, I got that sense later in your writings
> Honestly, the way I see it is this. Yeah, Europeans do have a lot to
> be grateful for, and when America's heart is in the right place
> there's none better. Say no more than the Marshall Plan, where we
> spent billions rebuilding the defeated Axis countries, and our allies
> too.. OK it was in our best interests too, but it sure went against
> the grain of normal conquerors, where the defeated are made to eat
> shit for centuries for losing.
>
Your right there and proves the point of the USA. We don't want to conquer
the world.
> But there is an arrogance. I see it myself. America was in the
> position to be so generous because the US mainland was not involved.
> The economy was not only left intact but was booming from all the war
> production. Every other major player - bar Canada and Australia - was
> decimated - even the other victors. The US almost had to rebuild the
> world because it would have had nobody to trade with! Despite its
> immense help, the Marshall Plan had a large element of
> look-after-number-one about it too.
>
No doubt about it. Isolationism is not a good idea.
> The Brits do get pissed off when Hollywood WW2 movies completely leave
> out the contributions of anyone else. The recent movie about the
> Enigma code and the sub (forget the name) had to re-write history to
> get an audience in the States - nobody would go to watch the British
> break the Nazi codes... Americans seem to be almost genetically
> programmed at birth to forget that *Russia* beat Hitler.
Well, I would argue that. Hitler beat Hitler. The soviet winter is what he
underestimated along with how quick he could take them out.
> 80% of German
> casualties were on the Eastern Front. D-Day and the Western Front,
> Italy and North Africa were virtual sideshows in comparison. Yet how
> many Russian generals can the average American name? How much
> knowledge of the Battle of Kursk, the final straw for German hopes?
>
> There's two sides to everything. America is good *and* bad. Americans
> are generous *and* arrogant.
I agree. I just hope your careful traveling over in Europe......
DGVREIMAN
"Mark Williams" <wide...@btconnect.com> wrote in message
news:arvlk8$jru$1...@venus.btinternet.com...news:BKzE9.31636$hK4.2...@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net..
.
> >
> >
> > ARROGANT AMERICANS
> >
> > Most Americans are perceived in Europe as arrogant. The
Europeans
> > that have never lived in America cannot understand why
Americans
> > always act so superior. There are a few reasons:
> >
> > Americans for the most part view Europe as a place that would
not
> > exist today without American support. Americans witnessed the
> > incredible blunders of the French and British during WWI and
WWII
> > (Verdun, Dieppe, Dunkirk, Holland, Maginot Line, deals with
> > Hitler, Vichy France, Serbia, Bosnia, El Duce, Franco, Adolph
> > Hitler, Communism, etc . . . etc . . . ) And more recently,
the
> > wanton slaughter in Bosnia and Serbia again. Once again,
America
> > to the rescue.
>
remove a
> continent from the face of the earth. Europe owes the US for
hauling it out
> of the shit, sure, but how much longer do we have to be
grateful? Should
> Saddam still be grateful for the US giving him arms and
elevating him to the
> status of war hero? America didn't 'rescue' the Balkans
single-handed; NATO
> did it, and the forces were significantly European.
Doug Says: Hitler would have completely enslaved Europe.
Further, without America after the war most EU counties would
have floundered. (I assume you have never heard of the Marshall
Plan? Tsk Tsk). None of the European countries repayed America
in full what they owed it in money, that was all forgiven.
Further, history is replete with allies turning on each other. I
am sure the same can be said about the country you live in.
Saddam was the best dog in the Iraq/Iranian fight, but when the
fight was over the world did not need any more mad dogs. The
Aircraft, bombs, tracking, radar, that were used in the Balkans
were predominantly American.
Without America you probably would not have been born into a
free world....what's that worth? All America is asking of its
European allies is to maintain solidarity against the tyrants and
terrorists of the world. Forget dealing with them, stop helping
them and start helping those that have helped the world achieve
the freedoms most presently enjoy. Is that asking too much from
our European allies?
> >
> > To Americans, Europeans are not the brightest people in the
> > world. In fact, they seem incredibly backward to the American
> > middle class, and incapable of even defending themselves.
Their
> > Military leaders were laughing stock, and the shortest book
in
> > the world is the list of Italian/French war heroes.
>
> Astonishing. I like Americans in general, but most couldn't
find their ass
> with both hands. One college kid asked me if Scotland was an
island. Most
> Americans know about America and sod all else. And neither the
French not
> the Italians would publish a book on war heroes, because they
don't hold
> warmongers in high esteem.
I lived in Europe for many years and I found the lack of
knowledge of America by most Europeans hilarious....not to
mention their general lack of knowledge about the world in
general. I know Europeans that have argued with me that Kansas
and Arkansas are the same state divided, and that America owns
Canada, and Mexico is a territory of America, and so one and so
on. Most Europeans could not find their ass if they hung a bell
on it in respect to American geography.
Further, the French and Italians have honored their military
leaders for centuries....they do not have a listing of war heroes
because their troops only knew two words in WWII:
"I surrender."
>
> >
> > If there is a battle to be lost, a country to be surrendered,
it
> > seems the Europeans will find a way to do it, and then whine
> > because America did not help them recover what they lost fast
> > enough . . ( with American blood of course).
>
> Give me one example of Europeans whining that the US cavalry
didn't arrive
> soon enough? Just one...
Doug Says: This newsgroup is full of it. "You got in the war
too late" is a common lament from most Brits. If I have heard it
once in a London Pub I have heard it a dozen times.
>
> >
> > Nothing is ever mentioned how American young men are manning
the
> > ramparts of Europe to this very day. Had there been a war
with
> > Russia, those were the men that would have fell first, while
the
> > Europeans would have no doubt drudged up their white flags
from
> > their war chests.
> >
> > Even today we maintain Europe's defenses with American troops
and
> > bases at a tremendous cost to America . . . while those
nations
> > we defend enjoy budgets that do not necessitate a major
defense
> > bite. That means Europeans can enjoy domestic benefits that
> > Americans cannot afford, but even then, the Europeans manage
to
> > screw it up!
> >
> I live next to three former USAF bases in Europe, all emptied
> post-Gorbachev. Good job too. And as far as Europe's concerned,
you can all
> go home in your combat fatigues and come back wearing Hawaiian
shirts, hats
> and sandals and saying 'Hey bud. D'ya ever meet the Queen of
England?..'
Doug Says: Really? Now you speak for all Europe? Strange how
the Europeans howl and scream each time we try and close a base
or two. Do you have any idea how much those bases provide the
European economy? Not to mention the amount they save in defense
expenditures? If all the American troops went home (which I for
one would also love to see) Europe would fee the pain, and social
programs would need to be cut drastically. If all the American
companies also pulled out of Europe then most of Europe would
become a third world country.
>
>
> > Consider National Health as a classic example: I realize
Canada
> > is not European, but they might as well be for all the
terrible
> > economy, high unemployment and pathetic health care they prov
ide
> > their citizens. France, Britain and especially Ireland fare
no
> > better, Portugal, Spain and the Netherlands are so backward
they
> > remind me of Southern Mississippi, USA.
>
> ALL clinical medical care is free in the UK, no matter who you
are. It costs
> us around $3,000 a year in taxes if you can afford it, and if
you can't it
> doesn't matter - the National Health Service still saves your
life.
> Unemployment in the UK is lower than in any European country,
and lower than
> in the majority of US states.
Doug Says: Nonsense! Health Care might be free in the UK, if it
doesn't kill you! Also, if you want to communicate with a doctor
you had better speak Pakistani...not to mention being forced to
wait for life saving operations for years....that is if you live
long enough. Unemployment in the EU is a joke compared to the
US National Average - (You already know that so you tried to
compare or worst cities to your best cities....subterfuge and
bullshit won't work around here).
Also, anyone on Welfare in the USA is entitled to free health
care, and all of our Vets are entitled to free health care (small
co-pay for some) and most American companies provide health
insurance benefits for their workers, along with other benefits
the European's have mostly never heard of.
>
> >
> > Yet since 911 and thousands of Americans were massacred,
where
> > are the Europeans? Dancing and dodging.
>
> No, we wept for you.
Doug Says: Great to hear, but where are you now that we want to
stop it from happening again?
> You really, really want this war, don't you?
Doug Says: No, what I really want is a deposed Saddam and a
liberated Iraqi people. I want another democracy in the Middle
East, and I want to eliminate perhaps one of the greatest threats
to my country that has come down the pike since we chased the
British and the Tories into Canada. Hans Blix is a joke, a clown
that should be given the responsibility of millions of American
lives. If he screws up again, and we are attacked by weapons "he
would not find" then Hans Blix will be responsible. I don't
think Hans Blix could find his ass if Saddam hung a bell on it.
>
> >
> > We also find ourselves bewildered at the so-called "United
> > Nations" that keeps passing resolution after resolution
against
> > Israel while the Palestinians keep sending over murder
bombers
> > after murder bombers to murder innocent Israelis. It's like
those
> > UN fools cannot hear the explosions? So what do they do?
> >
> > They send some fool into the Palestinian area to work with
the
> > Palestinians. The Palestinians shoot at some Israeli
soldiers,
> > and when the Israelis shoot back the UN guy gets killed.
>
> What happened was that an Israeli kid soldier let loose because
he thought
> he saw something in the UN guy's hand. He claimed it was a
grenade, but
> turned out to be a mobile phone. No shots were fired from the
UN compound,
> even the Israelis now accept that.
Doug Says: No the Israelis do not accept that! On the contrary,
they said explicitly they were being fired upon. Further, the UN
person was not even visible and he clearly was hit by "someone's"
fire in an alley. But even if your account turns out to be true,
that still is just one man compared to the thousands of Israelis
the terrorists have murdered. Yet the UN is ready to go to
investigative war against Israel over this one accident, but
"avert their eyes" when innocent Israelis are being murdered by
the thousands? That is my point.
>
> Now the
> > UN is howling and screaming, holding meetings, proclaiming
> > investigations, and using good ol American money to launch a
> > complete investigation into this unfortunate but
understandable
> > accident.....yet hundreds of innocent Israelis are being
murdered
> > on buses, in their beds and Israeli children are being
> > specifically targeted by the Palestinian goons, and what does
the
> > UN do? Absolutely nothing.
>
> Israeli occupation of the West Bank and Gaza is illegal.
Palestine should
> have its land back. Says the USA. Meanwhile, the US sends $3
billion a year
> to the (rich) Israelis while Palestinians live in utter
squalor... the kind
> of squalor that leads them in desperation to sacrifice their
children's
> bodies in their struggle against illegal occupation. They fish
with stones
> because they have little else. And Israel shows them it's not
right to
> murder people by murdering some more people.
Doug Says: First, Israel is not occupying any land. Israel's
present borders were provided them by the owners of that land in
treaty from Egypt, Jordan and Syria. Second, if the Palestinians
stopped murdering Israelis then they would not be living in
misery, and Israel has a right to defend itself and seek out and
capture the murderers and those that conspire with murderers.
Murder is a crime in all nations, and Israel has a right to
pursue those criminals and bring them to justice.
>
> >
> > One UN operative is where he should not be, gets himself
killed
> > as a result, and the UN rolls out the guard and declares
> > investigative war on Israel. Meanwhile thousands of innocent
> > Israelis are murdered or maimed and the UN "averts its eyes"
and
> > passes yet another half baked, half thought-out, well paid by
the
> > Arab league, outrageous resolution against Israel? If
Americans
> > did not know better, we would believe the UN thinks it is the
> > Israelis sending in the murder bombers and not the
Palestinian
> > terrorists!
> >
> When, in fact, what is happening is that the Israelis are
sending in the
> murder bombers...
Doug Says: Nonsense. Either you are a moron, or you have been
fed some ridiculous propaganda. Not only are the Palestinians
the ones that are guilty of murder bombing, they openly take
credit for it! In fact Hamas and the Islamic Jihad group of
goons were fighting over the credit for murdering 11 innocent
Israelis just last week. (Too bad they are hiding these facts
from you in your daily propaganda briefing at the Mosque).
>
> > From the birth of our nation we have either been fighting the
> > Europeans, or sending our young men to die for them. Just
once I
> > would like to see some appreciation, some empathy for the
attacks
> > on America, and some loyalty to the preservation of the
leader of
> > the free world by a solid European Union.
> >
> The 'free world' doesn't exist. I guess you mean democracy, and
the US
> attitude to democracy is that it doesn't matter that Dubya won
the
> presidency by getting Jeb to spike the Florida vote. Leader of
the free
> world? Let's put it to the vote - the only way the US gets to
win is by
> voting for itself.
Doug Says: Once again you are misinformed. When all the votes
that VP Al Gore wanted counted were counted (they were all
counted after the election) President Bush would have still won
the election. Even Al Gore admitted that fact...your "Mosque
Daily" is clearly still published bullshit. Further, the enemies
of America do not have a vote. They do not know what "voting" is
all about- they "vote" the way they are told to vote by their
masters.
>
> > America should not need to "go a begging" for European
support to
> > defend our country. The European nations should be scrambling
to
> > support us. They should be grateful, and loyal, and as
willing to
> > help the cause of freedom in America as America was in Europe
all
> > these many centuries.
> >
> We support free and fair elections, which you don't have. We
support
> diplomacy and negotiation, which you don't want. We support
peaceable
> nations, which you are not. We support each and every issue on
its merits
> because we are free-thinking people, not sheep.
Doug Says: Our elections are ten times more free and fair than
most European elections. (I have personally witnessed elections
in Spain, Portugal and even Ireland where people stood at the
polls and threatened people in respect to their vote).
Your diplomacy got you a deal with Hitler, a deal with Stalin, a
deal with the Imperial Japanese, a deal with Iran, a deal with
just about every monster and dictator in the world. And what
good were your "diplomatic deals" with these monsters? Those
"deals" are what Americans do not like about Europe....they make
too damn many deals, and NONE of those deals provide anything but
yet another war....that America is forced to intervene to win to
preserve democracy in the world.
>
> > I guess that is why Americans feel a bit arrogant when it
comes
> > to Europeans. We cannot ever think of anything good that has
> > happened to our nation that originated from Europe - except
> > perhaps the people that knew enough to escape from it and
came
> > here.
> You can thank Newton for the discovery of gravity, the
foundation of all
> modern science.
Doug Says: Pleeeeeze! If you are going to compare inventions
and technology between Europe and America at least start AFTER
America became an autonomous country! Newton was born in 1643 I
believe!
You can thank Nazi scientists, who you sheltered after WWII,
> for inventing the atomic bomb and ICBMs.
Doug Says: Utter nonsense. There was not a single Nazi at Los
Alamos where the Atomic Bomb was invented. All there were
Americans, and some that escaped from the Nazis to become
Americans. They former Europeans were *forced* out of Europe by
the all those "benevolent" Europeans you keep referencing.
After the war Werner Von Braun came to America and became an
American citizen as did hundreds of thousands of Europeans. Von
Braun was not a Nazi, he was a scientist.
You can thank Pasteur for our
> understanding of bacteria and for the vaccines against anthrax
and rabies.
> You can thank Joseph Lister for founding modern antiseptic
surgery. You can
> thank Sir Alexander Fleming for discovering antibiotics. You
can thank Frank
> Whittle for inventing the jet engine. You can thank Isambard
Brunel for
> building the first propellor-driven ocean ship.
You can thank Albert
> Einstein for the theory of relativity and so much more,
including warning
> Roosevelt that the Nazis could feasibly build an atom bomb,
then campaigning
> for nuclear disarmament until he died. You can thank... oh I'm
getting bored
> now. Go read a book.
Doug Says: If you had read a book or two yourself you would have
realized that Albert Einstein was an American, he worked in a US
Patent office. Einstein had to *escape* from Europe to save his
life, and his mind. Without America to escape to, Albert
Einstein would have probably died in some concentration camp that
was funded, supported, and loved by most Europeans.
In regards to American inventions, well if you had read a book or
two, you would know the US Patent Office has issued over SIX
MILLION US Patents that are recognized around the world as
original inventions! Now I cannot list all SIX MILLION
inventions here, but I will provide you with a reference URL:
Http://www.150.si.edu/150trav/remember/amerinv.htm
If you have time you may purview all six million inventions, and
learn a thing or two about America in the process.
Doug Grant (Tm)
> >
> >
> >
>
>
DGVREIMAN
> "SnowDog" <sno...@tobes.of.hades.org> wrote in message
> news:FKBE9.31239$mL2....@nwrddc01.gnilink.net...> > news:02BE9.80774$uw6.1...@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...> Just
check
> > http://www.undp.org/hdr2001/back.pdf and you will see there
is no
> > > A shorter book than the European war heroes is probably the
list with
> > > American inventions. Besides pizza with pineapple, what's
more on that
> > list?
> >
> > Electricity, bifocals, the cotton gin, the harmonica, the
telephone, the
> > telegraph, the light bulb, the bomb, the moon walk
(literally), rock and
> > roll, the blues, bar-b-que, the laser...
>
> You moron, nobody 'ivented' electricity, and current
electricity was
> discovered and investigated by Volta and Ampere. The tekephone
was invented
> by a Scotsman, bombs were in use by Europe before America was
invaded by
> whites, and the A bomb was invented by Germans working for the
US after
> WWII.
> >
> >
Doug Says: I think you are the moron Mark. You clearly do not
have any idea what you are talking about about.