Stella 150cc vs. Kymco People 150
Gabe
dirt roads, 2 lane paved roads. Not a lot of traffic. Am thinking of
either a Stella 150 cc or the Kymco 150. I'm 220 lbs and could use the
extra cc's.
Obviously, neither works well in snow, so I'm thinking of using the scooter
for a spring-summer-early fall commuter vehicle.
Any recommendations?
Also, they are asking $3100. for a new Kymco 150 cc. and about $2700. for
the Stella. Do these prices seem in line?
Thanks!
Gabe
David
The Kymco People is a modern, reliable AUTOMATIC scooter with big
wheels.
The Stella is a cheap, Indian-made clone of the classic OLD
MANUAL-TRANSMISSION Vespa PX.
Some are into the vintage thing, so I guess they're happy with the
Stella. For the rest of us, it's a relic -- and a weak one at that.
Can it even do 55 mph?
I wouldn't touch one for free myself. I wouldn't buy an Indian car.
I wouldn't buy an Indian anything mechanical or electronic. I most
definitely wouldn't buy a Stella. I predict they'll all be
rust-buckets within 4 years.
Indian alloys seem to go that way every time (ever buy anything metal
and made in India from Marshalls/TJ MAX?).
I prefer to buy new, modern technology, not ugly 40 year old
technology.
My advice? GO WITH THE KYMCO.
David
Zach
and some 'wow' factor, but not all that practical as a commuter bike.
I'd also check out some of the other bikes Kymco offers. Couple of things
you'll need to clarify, like at what size engine do you need a motorcycle
endorsement in VT? Do you have one, so the point is moot? What top
continuous speed do you want / need? Are we talking nice dirt roads, or
kidney-busters? Might you travel in 'off-road' conditions? Will you be
dealing with big mountains, little hills, or flat-land? Could you take an
all-paved route if you had the power & speed? Will you be carrying anything
with you, like groceries?
Even the 50 cc Kymcos will work quite well with your weight. I've even had
one gentleman who weighed 400 pounds riding a Kymco Cobra, no problems,
still getting almost 45 mph top speed out of it. A full speed kit (70cc kit,
aftermarket pipe, rejet the carb, change the rollers - roughly $600
installed) will get you an amazing amount of power and / or an extra 15-20
mph top speed.
Give me a bit more info, I'll narrow it down to the best models for you.
Might even save you a few bucks while we're at it!
BeachBum
"Gabe" <gabes...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:NedLc.47$uI1...@fe39.usenetserver.com...
Joe
Vermont says any 2 wheeled vehicle engine-powered is a "motorcycle" (no cc
or size limit as I can tell), so I do need a motorcycle license (they seem
to have a liberal way to get it if you have a driver's license which I
do--pass the written test then later on you can take a road test). Anyway
I will use the scooter mostly to travel to and from the job, 18 miles.
Mostly paved 2 lane road, lots of small hills. Top continuous speed = 50
mph. No planned "off-road" travel (despite what my son says!).
I will carry books, small briefcase, nothing heavy.
Would the smaller Kymco engine be okay? I was thinking of the 120 cc. to
have that extra power. There are one or two fairly steep hills come to
think of it. Three, as I think more.
Thanks for your advice.
Gabe
"Zach" <res6obg...@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:pAxMc.795$Qm2...@nwrddc04.gnilink.net...
cha cha
> wheels.
and plastic body panels.
>
> The Stella is a cheap, Indian-made clone of the classic OLD
> MANUAL-TRANSMISSION Vespa PX.
ahh, the lovely manual transmission. more control, more fun.
>
> Some are into the vintage thing, so I guess they're happy with the
> Stella. For the rest of us, it's a relic -- and a weak one at that.
> Can it even do 55 mph?
yes. the rest of who? you people who love convenience over
performance, who want to have a bike that is plastic and disposable?
the kind of person who eats fast food cause its easier, and forgoes
fine dining, becuase of a little more effort involved?
>
> I wouldn't touch one for free myself.
that leaves more for us.
> I wouldn't buy an Indian car.
neither would i.
> I wouldn't buy an Indian anything mechanical or electronic. I most
> definitely wouldn't buy a Stella. I predict they'll all be
> rust-buckets within 4 years.
thanks criswell, but i would take indian electronics over italian
anyday. the indian made LML bikes have a better fit and finish and
overall quality than even the late model italian made vespas.
>
> Indian alloys seem to go that way every time (ever buy anything metal
> and made in India from Marshalls/TJ MAX?).
every time! and every black man is a rapist and mugger. now, some
Indian metal is bad, some is good. dont lump everything together.
genuine has done a great job of ensuring the highest possible quality
control... and i have seen it first hand.
>
> I prefer to buy new, modern technology, not ugly 40 year old
> technology.
well, not everyone has taste.
>
> My advice? GO WITH THE KYMCO.
>
> David
disclaimer: kymco is a great first bike. super high quality, excellent
customer service, and not a bad style for a modern scooter.
--cha cha
Zach
you. Check to see if they have the typical 50cc limit in VT. In most states
if it's registered engine size is 50cc or less you don't need a motorcycle
endorsement. That being the case:
If you're under 5' 8" and under a size 10 shoe, go with the People 50 (about
$2300 new). Considering your original post, that's what I'd recommend, as it
is only slightly shorter (about an inch) than the People 150, measured from
the front of the seat to the rear fender. You lose quite a bit of underseat
storage space, but I'd go for the top-box anyway as it's more versatile for
your needs. Skip the extra expense of the 70cc kit, go with a pipe, jet kit,
and change the rollers. The acceleration will feel a bit stronger, but your
top speed will hit a true 60 mph flat-land, which should give you enough
power up the hills to be comfortable. Or have the rollers matched for 55 mph
flat land, to give you plenty of hill-climbing power. Either way you're
looking at roughly a $250 upgrade, installed. And it's easy to get the 70cc
kit later if you'd like a bit more punch. Either way, expect to get 80-100+
mpg.
Over 5' 8" & size 10 shoes, go with the Cobra (about $2300 new). It's got
wider tires and an off-road look, but behaves quite well on-road too. I'd
recommend doing a full kit on the Cobra. It's simply not as easy to push to
60 mph as the People, mainly because of the tires and some minor gearing
differences. Even without the 70cc, it will still meet your needs quite
well. And it has cavernous underseat storage, which pared with a top-box
will let you make grocery runs on it too. Expect 60-90 mpg, add about $250
(for the pipe, rollers, carb)- $700 for a full (70cc plus the rest) speed
kit.
If, however, you need a motorcycle endorsement regardless of engine size,
then seriously consider the P-150 (about $3200 new). It's quite capable of
65 mph+ speeds, and a comfortable & nimble ride, with much better storage
than the P-50. If you have nice twisty roads, I'd go for the P-150 for the
fun-factor. Of course, that's my sport-biker side of me that begs for a knee
to be dragged down insanely curvy roads.
If you're really lucky, you might find a gently used 250 cc Kymco for under
$3k. The Bet & Win 250 (about $3750 new) is sporty, fun, and Givi makes a
top case specifically for the B&W, but if you're over 6' it might feel
cramped. The P-250 ($4000-ish) & Grand Vista 250 ($4250-ish) are both too
new to find used - yet. I like the P-250 well enough, but I'm drooling over
the Grand Vista. If money & m/c endorsement are no issue, go for the Grand
Vista 250. Absolutely awesome bike, will run happily at 75 mph all day long,
comfortable, roomy, and good-looking. The Grand Vista was built like the
Kymco engineers sent a bike to "Pimp My Ride" and took everything they did
and put it into regular production. Damn nice bike.
All of Kymco's 250's use the same engine, and the only modification I
highly recommend would be re-jetting the carb from a #102 to a #108 main
jet. That gets rid of the off-the-line & roll-on lag but doesn't hurt the
engine at all. And you'll still get 70 miles per gallon.
BeachBum
aka Zach
"Joe" <bruz...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:yWxMc.2101$re2...@fe39.usenetserver.com...
PWB
Make sure you don't under-buy your bike.
I bought a Kymco People 150 last fall, rode it 3,100 miles, and put it up
for sale at the dealer from whom I bought it (on consignment of course)
while I purchased an INFINITELY SUPERIOR (for my needs, anyway) Suzuki
Burgman 650.
For you, the Burgman 650 might (and probably in fact is) serious overkill,
but don't discount the idea of buying MORE bike than you need.
Hell, you might, like me, realize that you WANT to ride the highways instead
of navigating either backroads or city streets (and their own particular
dangers -- most notably cross-streets and idiot cagers who ignore stop
signs, stop lights, and motorcyclists' very existences) and find yourself
very rapidly yearning for enough power to do so safely. That was MY
story...
And the Burgman 650 solved my problem.
<G>
PWB
PWB
> Vermont says any 2 wheeled vehicle engine-powered is a "motorcycle" (no cc
> or size limit as I can tell), so I do need a motorcycle license (they seem
> to have a liberal way to get it if you have a driver's license which I
> do--pass the written test then later on you can take a road test). Anyway
> I will use the scooter mostly to travel to and from the job, 18 miles.
> Mostly paved 2 lane road, lots of small hills. Top continuous speed = 50
> mph. No planned "off-road" travel (despite what my son says!).
> I will carry books, small briefcase, nothing heavy.
> Would the smaller Kymco engine be okay? I was thinking of the 120 cc. to
> have that extra power. There are one or two fairly steep hills come to
> think of it. Three, as I think more.
> Thanks for your advice.
> Gabe
If you need underseat room, avoid the Stella like the plague -- it has NONE.
The Kymco P150 has some decent underseat space, though not enough to hold
any decent-sized briefcase. For under $10, though, you can get a perfectly
serviceable bungee-style cargo net with rubber-coated steel hooks, and use
that to pin your briefcase down on the luggage rack behind the seat. I've
used a cargo net to haul a 20 pound APC UPS (in a box) home from the local
Sam's Club, and it worked admirably...
PWB
Jonathan Kaplan
dealer still has the Kymco. It had 2,400 Km on it. (the kymco odometer reads
in KM, but the speedometer is in MPH). The dealer is www.beabiker.com in NJ.
cha cha
with"
i thought, perhaps, it was "i want a scooter that is a scooter, and an
investment in a quality machine that will last me a long time and make
me happy." if you want a geo metro, buy one. or a kymco.
if you want a scooter, buy a stella.
who gives a flying f*ck how much storage you have under the seat?
ooh. ill forego all good taste to fit my crappy 1/2 helmet that wont
save my face when i crash (and you will.. sooner or later) under my
seat.
if you need a commuter bike, buy a goddamn moped. if you are too lazy
to learn how to ride a real bike, buy a kymco. when you grow up, and
buy a stella, or vintage vespa or lammie, then we'll talk.
cha cha
> and some 'wow' factor, but not all that practical as a commuter bike.
how can you POSSIBLY say that?
I have ridden my Vespa from chicago to ann arbor MI, and back. twice.
and to milwaukee, several times. and indianapolis.
the bike (which a stella is so close to, it doesnt make a difference)
is made to ride.
if you think a stella is just to show off, you dont know squat about
riding. its a proven design, built to last forever.
on top of that, its cool to boot.. you get the best of both worlds.
take if from a guy who put 60 thousand miles on an automatic scooter
and almost 100 thousand on a vespa.
Lanceandrew
riding. its a proven design, built to last forever.
..."proven design" means next to nothing in this context. Museums are full of
autos, air planes, bicycles, etc. of "proven design"...hell the "typewriter" is
of "proven design".
"proven design" is only worth holding onto in static environments wherein
little changes (the can opener, the paper clip). Below is a link for newbies
(like me) to appreciate the "proven design" of the Vespa.
http://home.earthlink.net/~mattgordon1/facts.htm
However, having said that, compare the simple language and approach to the
scooter between Yamaha and Piaggio and you'll see Piaggio centers on emotion,
and Yamaha performance.
http://www.yamaha-motor.co.jp/global/news/2004/01/19/innovation.html
Different strokes for different folks...I've learned scooter people can be a
lot like "watch enthusiast"....some want classic
design...others want state of the art...
but don't listen to me...i'm just dopey newbie with $450 invested in scootering
that wears a $20 timex watch.
Bryce Ludwig
news:20040726074338...@mb-m13.aol.com:
I'm one of those people who buys for performance and function over
lifestyle and image. I'm sure that vintage scooters are cool, and I
certainly wouldn't mind having one, but my Peugeot seems to be able to
out accelerate the Stellas I often ride with, and it has a higher top
speed as well. I have what I feel are the second best brakes on a 150cc
that was sold in the US (the ABS power assist brakes on the Elystar
being the best). I don't have much storage space under the seat, but
it's certainly more than a vintage scoot, or a vintage reproduction. I
was pretty impressed that Yamaha is doing what they are doing with that
Aluminum die casting for frames. It would be lovely to see Vespa making
it actually easy to get the wheels off the ET series. I've got a friend
with an ET4, and he has had a couple of rear flat tires. You have to
remove the exhaust and some other stuff to get the rear wheel off.
Contrast that with the very simple 4 bolts that you could do on the side
of the road on a vintage Vespa or one of the clones.
--
Ciao,
Bryce Ludwig
2003 Peugeot Looxor 150
Zach
news:5396721f.04072...@posting.google.com...
> "Zach" <res6obg...@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:<pAxMc.795$Qm2...@nwrddc04.gnilink.net>...
> > Go with the Kymco. The Stella is a nice bike for a trip to the coffee
shop
> > and some 'wow' factor, but not all that practical as a commuter bike.
>
> how can you POSSIBLY say that?
Damn, cha cha. The man wants something to go A-to-B, and to carry books &
such. I love the Stella for the classic style, and it does have some
elements practical for certain situations. This guy is riding in the
mountains on a longer commute. Shifting every ten seconds because of hills
is a pain, and the Stella isn't designed for a newbie. For his
circumstances, the Stella is completely impractical. In town commuting, or
joyrides (a la coffee shops) is a different story. The fact that one must
kick-start it, it's a two-stroke (try that in CA - no chance in hell), and
the small tires make it great for suburbs, city streets, etc. If you're
completely into the scene, its not a bad way to go for longer rides.
> the bike (which a stella is so close to, it doesnt make a difference)
> is made to ride.
No disagreement there, but it's not for a newbie.
> if you think a stella is just to show off, you dont know squat about
> riding. its a proven design, built to last forever.
Yeah, I'll take on that one. I've been riding for 12 years, full motorcycles
(sportbikes/crotch rockets), scooters, mopeds, classics & modern. I ride
mountain twisties, flat land haul-ass strips, beaches, big cities, small
towns, you name it. I own a scooter business, and teach people how to ride
everyday. But I must be clueless on 'riding'.
> on top of that, its cool to boot.. you get the best of both worlds.
Agreed, if it's your thing.
Zach
has, and certain expectations. Storage, power, top speed, ease of use &
licensing. A Stella, Lammie, or Vespa is a great choice, but not the right
'fit' for him.
And if you're talking about riding 'real bikes', when's the last time you
put a couple of miles on a Hayabusa? Do you even know what a Hayabusa is?
Or are you just here to be a snob?
"cha cha" <ban...@burtreynolds.org> wrote in message
news:5396721f.04072...@posting.google.com...
PWB
> Again, you need to switch to decaf. There are certain requirements this
guy
> has, and certain expectations. Storage, power, top speed, ease of use &
> licensing. A Stella, Lammie, or Vespa is a great choice, but not the right
> 'fit' for him.
>
> And if you're talking about riding 'real bikes', when's the last time you
> put a couple of miles on a Hayabusa? Do you even know what a Hayabusa is?
I just loooooooove the EyeAbuser, er, Hayabusa. I haven't got enough
cojones to ever hop on one, though... something about a 165+mph top speed,
and 0-60 in under 3 seconds, just scares the bejesus out of me.
Different strokes, though...
>
> Or are you just here to be a snob?
>
Obviously, he is. He's a Vintage Scooter Snob. He's of the same ilk that
tells twist-n-go plastic-bodied-scooter riders to go away when they show up
at scooter rallies.
PWB
PWB
News flash, pinhead --
Many if not most scooter owners buy their bikes to USE them -- to commute,
or to cruise the highways (you know, long distance touring... something you
can't do on your beloved Vespa without extreme discomfort, heh heh heh), or
just to ride for pleasure in their free time. Most of us aren't "scooter
fundamentalists" like you.
We actually USE our vehicles instead of staring lovingly at them in our
garage.
PWB, who's clocked 1200 miles in 31 days on his "NOT REAL TRUE SCOOTER
Burgman 650"...
PWB
> with"
>
> i thought, perhaps, it was "i want a scooter that is a scooter, and an
> investment in a quality machine that will last me a long time and make
> me happy." if you want a geo metro, buy one. or a kymco.
>
> if you want a scooter, buy a stella.
Why? The Stella is a vintage reproduction of the PX150 Elestart. It's
actually an LML Star, if you want to get picky.
> who gives a flying f*ck how much storage you have under the seat?
Some of us care because we actually USE our scooters for practical purposes,
like transporting cargo. You ARE familiar with the word "utility", aren't
you? Something that's sorely lacking in your beloved Stella?
> ooh. ill forego all good taste to fit my crappy 1/2 helmet that wont
> save my face when i crash (and you will.. sooner or later) under my
> seat.
Fit a half-helmet under the seat? My ride can fit two 3XL full-face lids
under the seat, and still have space for some small cargo. 'Course, I don't
normally carry a helmet under the seat when I'm riding... so I make use of
the space to carry my texts and notebooks for my grad-school classes, a job
which the Burgman performs admirably, thank you very much.
> if you need a commuter bike, buy a goddamn moped. if you are too lazy
> to learn how to ride a real bike, buy a kymco. when you grow up, and
> buy a stella, or vintage vespa or lammie, then we'll talk.
Why in perdition would anybody buy a moped to commute? Woefully
underpowered, terrible suspension, filthy emissions.
*cough*
A Kymco twist-and-go is a "real bike", you dolt. Oh, wait, that's right, if
it doesn't have a clutch and a balky shifter, it's not a REAL TRUE SCOOTER,
right Sparky?
*snork*
I did grow up. I put a deposit on a Bajaj Legend -- yeah, that ugly
thing -- but backed out when I realized that the "vintage" design would
drive me batshit as a daily commuter; so I bought a Kymco t-n-g instead,
which lasted me about six months and 3500km of riding before it became
obvious that it wasn't sufficient for my needs as a commuter bike. The
Kymco worked nicely, but it lacked the get-up-and-go of a modern
maxiscooter, which was precisely what I needed.
You know, I think I've figured out what you are, cha cha. You're the
scooter equivalent of a Harley Purist. You believe that "It Ain't Shit If
It Ain't Vintage (or a reproduction)".
Sad, so very sad...
PWB
Zach
"PWB" <NOS...@NOSPAM.rNOSPAMr.com> wrote in message
news:80cNc.14247$fv....@fe2.columbus.rr.com...
> I just loooooooove the EyeAbuser, er, Hayabusa. I haven't got enough
> cojones to ever hop on one, though... something about a 165+mph top speed,
> and 0-60 in under 3 seconds, just scares the bejesus out of me.
>
> Different strokes, though...
I've ridden a bunch of bikes in my days. The 'Busa ain't all it's cracked up
to be. Great in a straight line, kick-in-the-ass acceleration. Handles like
a cinder block, though. If you can handle a modern sportbike, the Busa isn't
that bad. Of course, it's not my first choice for daily riding, but its not
unmanageable. Besides, most sportbikes can do 160+, and anything over
600cc's and made after 1994 can usually manage 0-60 in roughly 3 - 3.5
seconds. Doesn't mean it happens everytime you twist the wick, though. Sure,
the 'Busa is a bit touchy, but it's not a rocket-pack on wheels either.
> Obviously, he is. He's a Vintage Scooter Snob. He's of the same ilk that
> tells twist-n-go plastic-bodied-scooter riders to go away when they show
up
> at scooter rallies.
>
> PWB
Obviously. Reminds me of a lot of Harley riders in my area. Sad. *Shakes
Head*
Lanceandrew
underpowered, terrible suspension, filthy emissions.
millions of people in the usa have a daily commute on streets and boulevards
with speed limits of 35 mph or less (like all of manhattan except the two
highways boardering the City).
A Super 9, LT 50, or People 50, Zuma, any one of these mopeds would serve quite
well for them. The reviews I've read on the Super 9 address all your points
and seems to pass with flying colors.....
http://www.motorcycle-usa.com/Article_Page.aspx?ArticleID=450&Page=1
SoCalMike
> who gives a flying f*ck how much storage you have under the seat?
maybe people that like to carry stuff with them? like a jacket? lock?
take some groceries home from the store? the *useful* stuff a scooter is
good for. otherwise, save your money and get a friggin bike.
>
> ooh. ill forego all good taste to fit my crappy 1/2 helmet that wont
> save my face when i crash (and you will.. sooner or later) under my
> seat.
>
> if you need a commuter bike, buy a goddamn moped. if you are too lazy
> to learn how to ride a real bike, buy a kymco. when you grow up, and
> buy a stella, or vintage vespa or lammie, then we'll talk.
had one, it sucked. sold it. for 10 times what i paid for it!
Zach
Check out Tomos (I like the Revival, and the Tomos Custom is awesome). The
ones you used as examples are what we call scooters, even if they are
licensed as mopeds.
"Lanceandrew" <lance...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20040726152850...@mb-m19.aol.com...
Zach
<megasnip>...so I bought a Kymco t-n-g instead,
> which lasted me about six months and 3500km of riding before it became
> obvious that it wasn't sufficient for my needs as a commuter bike. The
> Kymco worked nicely, but it lacked the get-up-and-go of a modern
> maxiscooter, which was precisely what I needed.
Kymco has some nice 250's now. My personal favorite is the Grand Vista
(*drools*). Great even as a long-distance commuter bike. Might be a bit
smaller than the Burgmans, but I much prefer the handling of a shorter
wheelbase bike. Unless you're routinely running faster than 75 mph, a 250 is
great.
> You know, I think I've figured out what you are, cha cha. You're the
> scooter equivalent of a Harley Purist. You believe that "It Ain't Shit If
> It Ain't Vintage (or a reproduction)".
>
> Sad, so very sad...
>
> PWB
Precisely.
cha cha
> has, and certain expectations. Storage, power, top speed, ease of use &
> licensing. A Stella, Lammie, or Vespa is a great choice, but not the right
> 'fit' for him.
>
> And if you're talking about riding 'real bikes', when's the last time you
> put a couple of miles on a Hayabusa? Do you even know what a Hayabusa is?
>
> Or are you just here to be a snob?
>
i have an 85 yamaha FJ600 streetfighter rat bike. and 115 MPH is nice for a lark.
if you need storage, speed and all that other crap, buy a gold wing.
cha cha
> Damn, cha cha. The man wants something to go A-to-B, and to carry books &
> such.
get a rear rack.
I love the Stella for the classic style, and it does have some
> elements practical for certain situations. This guy is riding in the
> mountains on a longer commute. Shifting every ten seconds because of hills
> is a pain, and the Stella isn't designed for a newbie.
the vespa was originally designed as a "girls bike" how much more
beginner can you get (i know thats sexist, but statistically speaking,
its still true)
For his
> circumstances, the Stella is completely impractical. In town commuting, or
> joyrides (a la coffee shops) is a different story. The fact that one must
> kick-start it,
really? whats that big ol ' electric starter for then?
it's a two-stroke (try that in CA - no chance in hell), and
> the small tires make it great for suburbs, city streets, etc.
small tires are unstable? myth.
>If you're
> completely into the scene, its not a bad way to go for longer rides.
>
> > the bike (which a stella is so close to, it doesnt make a difference)
> > is made to ride.
>
> No disagreement there, but it's not for a newbie.
see above. i dont see why a newvbie needs a 600 cc bike anyway. and
really, my first scooter was a 200cc yamaha, then i got my vespa. it
was a matter of what i could find, really. . .
>
> > if you think a stella is just to show off, you dont know squat about
> > riding. its a proven design, built to last forever.
>
> Yeah, I'll take on that one. I've been riding for 12 years, full motorcycles
> (sportbikes/crotch rockets), scooters, mopeds, classics & modern. I ride
> mountain twisties, flat land haul-ass strips, beaches, big cities, small
> towns, you name it. I own a scooter business, and teach people how to ride
> everyday. But I must be clueless on 'riding'.
>
> > on top of that, its cool to boot.. you get the best of both worlds.
>
> Agreed, if it's your thing.
its my thing, in case you didnt know. heh.
cha cha
> cojones to ever hop on one, though... something about a 165+mph top speed,
> and 0-60 in under 3 seconds, just scares the bejesus out of me.
god its ugly though. yeah its fast, i agree on that. impressive in
that right.
>
> Different strokes, though...
>
> >
> > Or are you just here to be a snob?
> >
>
> Obviously, he is. He's a Vintage Scooter Snob. He's of the same ilk that
> tells twist-n-go plastic-bodied-scooter riders to go away when they show up
> at scooter rallies.
>
> PWB
OBVIOUSLY!!! im a total snob. i only organize scooter rides in chicago
that have been trying to include all scooters, and motorcycles. we
have modern bikes in our club... i started out on a yamaha riva, and i
would get another one if i could come by it cheap. its a nice beater
bike.
cha cha
> > tells twist-n-go plastic-bodied-scooter riders to go away when they show
> up
> > at scooter rallies.
> >
> > PWB
>
> Obviously. Reminds me of a lot of Harley riders in my area. Sad. *Shakes
> Head*
harley riders are worse than the worst vintage scooter snobs. hell a
vintage snob would never condone the stella.
get what you want, but im just rallying against mediocrity
cha cha
> or to cruise the highways (you know, long distance touring... something you
> can't do on your beloved Vespa without extreme discomfort, heh heh heh)
a thousand miles in a week.. and im comfy on it.
, or
> just to ride for pleasure in their free time. Most of us aren't "scooter
> fundamentalists" like you.
im just a scooter RIDER. thats all.
>
> We actually USE our vehicles instead of staring lovingly at them in our
> garage.
>
>
> PWB, who's clocked 1200 miles in 31 days on his "NOT REAL TRUE SCOOTER
> Burgman 650"...
see above...
cha cha
> actually an LML Star, if you want to get picky.
i dont give a damn. its still, imo, better.
>
> > who gives a flying f*ck how much storage you have under the seat?
>
> Some of us care because we actually USE our scooters for practical purposes,
> like transporting cargo. You ARE familiar with the word "utility", aren't
> you? Something that's sorely lacking in your beloved Stella?
i dont have a stella. i have a vespa and its been my ONLY transport
(with the exception of my FJ600) for 5 years now. EVERY DAY. rain.
snow. anything. long trips. i even MOVED 1/2 an apartment with it.
> Fit a half-helmet under the seat? My ride can fit two 3XL full-face lids
> under the seat, and still have space for some small cargo. 'Course, I don't
> normally carry a helmet under the seat when I'm riding... so I make use of
> the space to carry my texts and notebooks for my grad-school classes, a job
> which the Burgman performs admirably, thank you very much.
a burgman isnt a scooter. it isnt a motorcycle either. its a two
wheeled car.
but its pretty neat, i admit THAT. but its too damn big.
> Why in perdition would anybody buy a moped to commute? Woefully
> underpowered, terrible suspension, filthy emissions.
i hate mopeds, i was just bein a dick.
>
> *cough*
> A Kymco twist-and-go is a "real bike", you dolt. Oh, wait, that's right, if
> it doesn't have a clutch and a balky shifter, it's not a REAL TRUE SCOOTER,
> right Sparky?
> *snork*
wtf is a snork?
heh, the stella shifter is great, its an EFL design, so it doesnt wear
out the cruciform, like my older vespa, which at nearly 100,000 miles
is on its second axle.. (took me only two hours to disassemble the
engine, replace it and be back on the road... btw.. god i love the
ease of maintenance..)
>
> I did grow up. I put a deposit on a Bajaj Legend -- yeah, that ugly
> thing -- but backed out when I realized that the "vintage" design would
> drive me batshit as a daily commuter; so I bought a Kymco t-n-g instead,
> which lasted me about six months and 3500km of riding before it became
> obvious that it wasn't sufficient for my needs as a commuter bike. The
> Kymco worked nicely, but it lacked the get-up-and-go of a modern
> maxiscooter, which was precisely what I needed.
argh. the legend!!!! man.
you should have tried the shifter first, i wouldnt have anything else
in the heavy chicago traffic. and its great for hills, and snow. . .
but i wouldnt suggest snow.
>
> You know, I think I've figured out what you are, cha cha. You're the
> scooter equivalent of a Harley Purist. You believe that "It Ain't Shit If
> It Ain't Vintage (or a reproduction)".
>
> Sad, so very sad...
>
> PWB
it aint so. but im definitely eager to sell someone on something i
have grown to love.
SoCalMike
> if you need storage, speed and all that other crap, buy a gold wing.
why? my burgman 400 does it *all* for a third the cost of a goldwing.
PWB
Lance, those aren't mopeds, they're 50cc two-stroke scooters.
When someone says "moped", I'm thinking of a *real* moped. One or two speed
transmission, sub-50cc two-stroke engine, pedals, large-diameter
narrow-width wheels... and a tiny gas tank.
PWB
Zach
&
> > such.
>
> get a rear rack.
Which, of course, I suggested for a TNG.
> I love the Stella for the classic style, and it does have some
> > elements practical for certain situations. This guy is riding in the
> > mountains on a longer commute. Shifting every ten seconds because of
hills
> > is a pain, and the Stella isn't designed for a newbie.
>
> the vespa was originally designed as a "girls bike" how much more
> beginner can you get (i know thats sexist, but statistically speaking,
> its still true)
Ummm, a Twist-n-go? Much more beginner-ish. And practical.
>
> For his
> > circumstances, the Stella is completely impractical. In town commuting,
or
> > joyrides (a la coffee shops) is a different story. The fact that one
must
> > kick-start it,
>
> really? whats that big ol ' electric starter for then?
Damn - the classics I've ridden are kick-start. Including the Stella. Of
course, I might have missed a big red button under my right thumb, and
decided to kick-start it just for giggles, cause I like having a sore leg by
the end of the day.
> it's a two-stroke (try that in CA - no chance in hell), and
> > the small tires make it great for suburbs, city streets, etc.
>
> small tires are unstable? myth.
Didn't say unstable. Just not confidence-inspiring. A bit squirrely for my
tastes, unless I'm just cruising to the coffee shop.
> >If you're
> > completely into the scene, its not a bad way to go for longer rides.
> >
> > > the bike (which a stella is so close to, it doesnt make a difference)
> > > is made to ride.
> >
> > No disagreement there, but it's not for a newbie.
>
>
> see above. i dont see why a newvbie needs a 600 cc bike anyway. and
> really, my first scooter was a 200cc yamaha, then i got my vespa. it
> was a matter of what i could find, really. . .
Again, didn't say 600. 150 or 250 is just what the doctor ordered for this
guy. Anything over 500 is for a road-warrior, or a speed-demon (like me!).
> >
> > > if you think a stella is just to show off, you dont know squat about
> > > riding. its a proven design, built to last forever.
> >
> > Yeah, I'll take on that one. I've been riding for 12 years, full
motorcycles
> > (sportbikes/crotch rockets), scooters, mopeds, classics & modern. I ride
> > mountain twisties, flat land haul-ass strips, beaches, big cities, small
> > towns, you name it. I own a scooter business, and teach people how to
ride
> > everyday. But I must be clueless on 'riding'.
> >
> > > on top of that, its cool to boot.. you get the best of both worlds.
> >
> > Agreed, if it's your thing.
>
> its my thing, in case you didnt know. heh.
Exactly - it's your thing. Not his. He needs practical, reliable, easy, and
inexpensive. Not to mention a bit of storage.
-=ๆฝฑemm๎ข=-
to compare it to. I intend on commuting with it starting tomorrow
if it doesnt rain. I put 80 miles on it in 2 days just getting used to it.
A backpack will be my storage area or I think I can web-strap a bag
of groceries or stuff to the floor.
Im going to mod it out not so much for speed but a little more pull
up the many hills we have here in Pa.
I use the kicker too to impress the Harley cro-mags in my neighbothood.
--
-=ๆฝฑemm๎ข=-
GSCo. Stella
FXST (For Sale)
DR650
David
live.
Here's logic:
Classic Vespas are "all that" because, according to you, they:
1) Last Forever
Then why all this excitement over the Stella? I thought you all HATE
anything new, and since your classic Vespas last forever, why would a
new non-Italian scooter (an imitation) interest you?
2) Can be ridden anywhere
B.S. It's a weak 150cc scooter that's only 10HP and can't even
sustain 55mph. It's not highway-legal everywhere, and even if it
were, it would get creamed because it's was too slow to travel on the
Interstates.
3) Are cool
Nothing cool about them in my eyes. They look stupid and OLD.
4) Are practical
For the REST of us, our scooters are our cars. They aren't some Ska
accesory. We use them EVERY DAY -- not just once a week to get to the
Mod-wannabe drink-n-drive fest.
We need speed, power, storage, comfort and safety. It's not about a
"look", it's about transportation.
5) Autos have plastic panels
So what? The frames are steel or aluminum trellises and are very,
very strong. Plastics are a way of life in the 21st century.
Plastics don't dent or rust. Plastics can be made to be very strong.
All you get for your steel is a much heavier than it ought to be
scooter with a weak engine that has to pull excessive weight because
it's all metal.
6) Fit and Finish are superior
Compared to what? A rusted out old shell of a classic scooter? Well,
I should hope so.
Every ride I ever went on with the scooter club, one of those classic
Vespas would break down. EVERY TIME. When they weren't broken down,
they were belching out smoke so thick, we couldn't breath -- so we
[easily] passed them.
Enjoy your Model-T. We prefer Lexus.
Whenever a newbie asks which scooter he or she should start out on,
the wrong answer is always "a Stella".
David
David
> a burgman isnt a scooter. it isnt a motorcycle either. its a two
> wheeled car.
>
> but its pretty neat, i admit THAT. but its too damn big.
>
>
What about your motorcycle? Is that "too damned big" too?
I have had 4 scooters, and my Burgman 650 does everything the little
ones did just as well, but can also cruise the highways all day at any
speed you want, with passing power to spare.
It's smooth and stable from 2mph up to 100mph and beyond. I can carry
... anything, and is comfortable and protective. What more can you
ask for?
It's the most versatile scooter on the road, and also the best.
PERIOD!
> argh. the legend!!!! man.
> you should have tried the shifter first, i wouldnt have anything else
> in the heavy chicago traffic. and its great for hills, and snow. . .
> but i wouldnt suggest snow.
The traffic in my city is much worse than Chicago's and I am SOOOO
glad I don't have to shift in it.
You must be delusional if you think that the Stella's the best thing
out there for hills and traffic. It's too weak and too slow. I'll
bet on a real hill (like in SF, say) you couldn't make it above 35
mph.
Some hill-whipper!
David
Lanceandrew
says "moped", I'm thinking of a *real* moped.
___
...ya know, that's right up there with, "i did not have sexual relations with
that woman".
cha cha
> Cha-Cha, you're just like the weenies in the scooter club where I
> live.
>
> Here's logic:
>
> Classic Vespas are "all that" because, according to you, they:
>
> 1) Last Forever
>
> Then why all this excitement over the Stella? I thought you all HATE
> anything new, and since your classic Vespas last forever, why would a
> new non-Italian scooter (an imitation) interest you?
people ask too much for an old vespa. its like getting one brand new,
without havingh to work on it. but then again, i have an old vespa, i
dont need a stella.
>
> 2) Can be ridden anywhere
>
> B.S. It's a weak 150cc scooter that's only 10HP and can't even
> sustain 55mph. It's not highway-legal everywhere, and even if it
> were, it would get creamed because it's was too slow to travel on the
> Interstates.
and they cruise 55 easy. . . if you dont like the performance, put a
177 kit on it.
>
> 3) Are cool
>
> Nothing cool about them in my eyes. They look stupid and OLD.
im stupid and old, so it fits me.
>
> 4) Are practical
>
> For the REST of us, our scooters are our cars. They aren't some Ska
> accesory. We use them EVERY DAY -- not just once a week to get to the
> Mod-wannabe drink-n-drive fest.
>
> We need speed, power, storage, comfort and safety. It's not about a
> "look", it's about transportation.
rest of who? my vespa has been my only car for 5 years. dont even
think about claiming i dont know shit about practicality and
'transportation'
i hate mods.
i DO, however, enjoy scooter rallies.
>
> 5) Autos have plastic panels
>
> So what? The frames are steel or aluminum trellises and are very,
> very strong. Plastics are a way of life in the 21st century.
> Plastics don't dent or rust. Plastics can be made to be very strong.
> All you get for your steel is a much heavier than it ought to be
> scooter with a weak engine that has to pull excessive weight because
> it's all metal.
banging a dent out is more practical and cheaper than buying a new
plastic panel.
>
> 6) Fit and Finish are superior
>
> Compared to what? A rusted out old shell of a classic scooter? Well,
> I should hope so.
>
> Every ride I ever went on with the scooter club, one of those classic
> Vespas would break down. EVERY TIME. When they weren't broken down,
> they were belching out smoke so thick, we couldn't breath -- so we
> [easily] passed them.
>
> Enjoy your Model-T. We prefer Lexus.
i'd rather have a t bucket hot rod 8 days of the week compared to a
lexus.
>
> Whenever a newbie asks which scooter he or she should start out on,
> the wrong answer is always "a Stella".
>
> David
i hearitly disagree.
cha cha
yeah, it is, sometimes, but its physically smaller than a burgman..
>
> The traffic in my city is much worse than Chicago's and I am SOOOO
> glad I don't have to shift in it.
i dont know about that.. maybe less congested, but scooterists who
visit chicago all agree that chicago has the WORST cage drivers on
earth.
>
> You must be delusional if you think that the Stella's the best thing
> out there for hills and traffic. It's too weak and too slow. I'll
> bet on a real hill (like in SF, say) you couldn't make it above 35
> mph.
>
> Some hill-whipper!
downshifting on hills, IS the advantage.
PWB
news:<781dd1b7.04072...@posting.google.com>...
> > Cha-Cha, you're just like the weenies in the scooter club where I
> > live.
> >
> > Here's logic:
> >
> > Classic Vespas are "all that" because, according to you, they:
> >
> > 1) Last Forever
> >
> > Then why all this excitement over the Stella? I thought you all HATE
> > anything new, and since your classic Vespas last forever, why would a
> > new non-Italian scooter (an imitation) interest you?
>
> people ask too much for an old vespa. its like getting one brand new,
> without havingh to work on it. but then again, i have an old vespa, i
> dont need a stella.
>
> >
> > 2) Can be ridden anywhere
> >
> > B.S. It's a weak 150cc scooter that's only 10HP and can't even
> > sustain 55mph. It's not highway-legal everywhere, and even if it
> > were, it would get creamed because it's was too slow to travel on the
> > Interstates.
>
> and they cruise 55 easy. . . if you dont like the performance, put a
> 177 kit on it.
They "cruise 55 easy"? What planet are you ON? I owned a 1984 PX150
Elestart in the mid-80s. It's basically the same damned bike as the Stella,
aside from LML's addition of Bitubo gas shocks, Grimeca front brake, more
modern electricals, and a catalyzed exhaust. That PX150 would do 55, yes,
maybe 60mph, but it was *completely wound out* in 4th gear at 60. It
cruised best at 45-50, not 55. At 55, it was buzzy and twitchy, earning its
Vespa moniker in droves. Know what happens when you take one of those
little buggers on the interstate? Hint -- you end up squashed like a bug on
a windshield on a Freightliner's front grille.
Why kit out the bike with a larger cylinder head? Shouldn't the bike be
sufficient in its stock configuration?
> >
> > 3) Are cool
> >
> > Nothing cool about them in my eyes. They look stupid and OLD.
>
> im stupid and old, so it fits me.
At least you're honest...
> > 4) Are practical
> >
> > For the REST of us, our scooters are our cars. They aren't some Ska
> > accesory. We use them EVERY DAY -- not just once a week to get to the
> > Mod-wannabe drink-n-drive fest.
> >
> > We need speed, power, storage, comfort and safety. It's not about a
> > "look", it's about transportation.
>
> rest of who? my vespa has been my only car for 5 years. dont even
> think about claiming i dont know shit about practicality and
> 'transportation'
>
> i hate mods.
>
> i DO, however, enjoy scooter rallies.
>
>
> >
> > 5) Autos have plastic panels
> >
> > So what? The frames are steel or aluminum trellises and are very,
> > very strong. Plastics are a way of life in the 21st century.
> > Plastics don't dent or rust. Plastics can be made to be very strong.
> > All you get for your steel is a much heavier than it ought to be
> > scooter with a weak engine that has to pull excessive weight because
> > it's all metal.
>
> banging a dent out is more practical and cheaper than buying a new
> plastic panel.
And those dented panels usually end up *rusting* despite your repairs. Of
course, part of the problem is that they're Indian-made...
> >
> > 6) Fit and Finish are superior
> >
> > Compared to what? A rusted out old shell of a classic scooter? Well,
> > I should hope so.
> >
> > Every ride I ever went on with the scooter club, one of those classic
> > Vespas would break down. EVERY TIME. When they weren't broken down,
> > they were belching out smoke so thick, we couldn't breath -- so we
> > [easily] passed them.
> >
> > Enjoy your Model-T. We prefer Lexus.
>
> i'd rather have a t bucket hot rod 8 days of the week compared to a
> lexus.
A vintage Vespa or Lammy, or a Vespa knock-off, is NOT a "t bucket hot rod".
It's an antediluvian relic that should be put out to pasture or sent to a
museum.
> > Whenever a newbie asks which scooter he or she should start out on,
> > the wrong answer is always "a Stella".
> >
> > David
>
> i hearitly disagree.
You're a partisan fanatic, we would expect no less from you.
-=ๆฝฑemm๎ข=-
> > > Obviously, he is. He's a Vintage Scooter Snob.
> > Obviously. Reminds me of a lot of Harley riders in my area. Sad. *Shakes
> > Head*
Im new here and I dont want to be confrontational but owning both of these
bashed rides I would like to add my differing opinion on this matter...........
Ive had a few Harleys and have on right now. Ive had more sportbikes than
I can count.....In fact I just unloaded a ZX-9 to make room for the Stella.
I also own a Dual Sportbike that I really ride off road. I dont own one
peice of HD 'Bro-Tique' gear, am a vegatarian, dont smoke and dont drink
and dont slap my bitch up fer not cleanin' da krome rite....... People buy bikes
for different reasons. Just like the music we like, the car we buy, the women/men
we want to go out with. Emotional stuff moreso than reason. This being said,
this is a very hard concept for a lot of people to grasp or understand but people
WANT the old engineering of an HD and will pay to not be part of the status quo.
This is why I like them and this is why I bought my Stella. To some people wrenching
on your ride is as much a part of ownership as is riding it. This is why there is sooooooo
much stuff for HDs . Mine have been the most reliable and maintanance free bikes Ive
owned so for me like zillions of other HD people who work on totally bullet proof bikes
the wrenching part is just for fun. Admittedly, the newer bro-tique guys who ride
HDs are usually fun to laff at, but the old timers are more open minded than most
other genre of biker having had a lot of different bikes before the HD's.
I looked at a few scooters. The sterile plastic look of most of them didnt appeal to me.
It does to a lot of people, but to me it didnt. I researched parts availability.... I can
have many hours of great tool-time on the Stella by virtue of all the stuff thats available.
This might not be important to some people but for others like me, it is. In a
techno-world it is getting harder and harder for people to understand the beauty of
simplicity. I like wind up windows, rubber floor mats and a stick shift in my car.
I wouldnt drive a Lexus unless I won it. Same with my bikes......simplicity and
fun-to-work are as legitimate priorities as are technologicly advanced stuff .
Isnt having choices great ?
Zach
warriors who've never ridden in the rain 'cause they'd drown with their nose
that high in the air. They have no respect for anything that doesn't have
the HD logo on it, including toilet paper.
Overall, I completely agree with you - it's the mentality, not the ride.
Although I do take issue with not eating dead animals. :-)
"-=ๆฝฑemm๎ข=-" <no...@m.com> wrote in message
news:10gdg35...@corp.supernews.com...
SoCalMike
-= ยฃemmยฅ =- wrote:
> "cha cha" <ban...@burtreynolds.org> wrote in message news:5396721f.0407...@posting.google.com...
>
>>>>Obviously, he is. He's a Vintage Scooter Snob.
>
>
>>>Obviously. Reminds me of a lot of Harley riders in my area. Sad. *Shakes
>>>Head*
>
>
>
> Im new here and I dont want to be confrontational but owning both of these
> bashed rides I would like to add my differing opinion on this matter...........
>
> Ive had a few Harleys and have on right now. Ive had more sportbikes than
> I can count.....In fact I just unloaded a ZX-9 to make room for the Stella.
> I also own a Dual Sportbike that I really ride off road. I dont own one
> peice of HD 'Bro-Tique' gear, am a vegatarian, dont smoke and dont drink
> and dont slap my bitch up fer not cleanin' da krome rite....... People buy bikes
> for different reasons. Just like the music we like, the car we buy, the women/men
> we want to go out with. Emotional stuff moreso than reason. This being said,
> this is a very hard concept for a lot of people to grasp or understand but people
> WANT the old engineering of an HD and will pay to not be part of the status quo.
sadly, harley *is* the status quo, for v-twin cruisers.
> This is why I like them and this is why I bought my Stella. To some people wrenching
> on your ride is as much a part of ownership as is riding it. This is why there is sooooooo
> much stuff for HDs .
and also because nothing ever changes with them. just like the stella,
and even the bajajes to some extent.
>Mine have been the most reliable and maintanance free bikes Ive
> owned so for me like zillions of other HD people who work on totally bullet proof bikes
> the wrenching part is just for fun. Admittedly, the newer bro-tique guys who ride
> HDs are usually fun to laff at, but the old timers are more open minded than most
> other genre of biker having had a lot of different bikes before the HD's.
i get the most smiles and waves on my burg400 from older harley riders.
sportbikers might nod, and other scooter riders wave too.
> I looked at a few scooters. The sterile plastic look of most of them didnt appeal to me.
> It does to a lot of people, but to me it didnt. I researched parts availability.... I can
> have many hours of great tool-time on the Stella by virtue of all the stuff thats available.
> This might not be important to some people but for others like me, it is. In a
> techno-world it is getting harder and harder for people to understand the beauty of
> simplicity. I like wind up windows, rubber floor mats and a stick shift in my car.
> I wouldnt drive a Lexus unless I won it. Same with my bikes......simplicity and
> fun-to-work are as legitimate priorities as are technologicly advanced stuff .
> Isnt having choices great ?
sho is. after growing up with bulletproof hondas, i got a fixer upper
vespa. got it running, but didnt like it. too old, 6volt, points
ignition. i coulda hopped it up but ended up selling it for ten times
what i paid.
that said... id rather have a current 12v electric ignition vespa clone
than a "classic".
>
> --
> -= ยฃemmยฅ =-
Bryce Ludwig
news:5396721f.04072...@posting.google.com:
>> 4) Are practical
>>
>> For the REST of us, our scooters are our cars. They aren't some Ska
>> accesory. We use them EVERY DAY -- not just once a week to get to
>> the Mod-wannabe drink-n-drive fest.
>>
>> We need speed, power, storage, comfort and safety. It's not about a
>> "look", it's about transportation.
>
> rest of who? my vespa has been my only car for 5 years. dont even
> think about claiming i dont know shit about practicality and
> 'transportation'
>
> i hate mods.
>
> i DO, however, enjoy scooter rallies.
I'd like to go to a really good rally at some point, but I don't care
for mod lifestyle or anything. I have an acquaintance who is all
skinhead and has a vintage scooter because his lifestyle dictates that
he does. He has a friend named English Mike who has a few scooters, and
is a mechanic for the local scooter dealer. English Mike also set my
friend's leg on fire just cause he thought it was funny. So anyone who
has a scooter as an accesory to a lifestyle is a bit suspect in my book,
but a good rally would be fun.
>> 5) Autos have plastic panels
>>
>> So what? The frames are steel or aluminum trellises and are very,
>> very strong. Plastics are a way of life in the 21st century.
>> Plastics don't dent or rust. Plastics can be made to be very strong.
>> All you get for your steel is a much heavier than it ought to be
>> scooter with a weak engine that has to pull excessive weight because
>> it's all metal.
>
> banging a dent out is more practical and cheaper than buying a new
> plastic panel.
Actually, if you do the work yourself, it is pretty much a wash on
whether it is cheaper to bang the dent out of metal, or to sand and
repair the existing plastic panel. Either can be repainted, and while
the plastic scoots have the disadvantage of needing special primers (not
really significantly more expensive than regular ones), they have an
advantage in the fact that you can remove the panels from a frame and
have them painted individually. This cuts down on masking and the
overspray that can often happen from not enough masking or a poor mask
job.
While it is claimed that metal parts will always be available, I am not
100% sure this is true. Metal parts can be remade, but only by skilled
individuals. Stamped and pressed metal is a high volume manufacturing
process, so you won't be able to get a medium run made once the tooling
is scrapped. People with MGs and other British Leyland and Rover group
vehicles have been lucky that the tooling for their vehicles was saved
by the factory then purchased by enthusiasts and full reproduction body
shells are now available, as well as about any panel you would need.
Unless this scenario happens, it is expensive to get new tooling made,
cheaper now than it used to be, but it's still expensive to cut things
out of hardened tool steel. Injection molding dies are also hard to
remake, but if they are salvaged, you could get any molding company to
inject ABS or any other plastic you choose into them.
Plastics have an advantage here because you could get a few good panels,
and then get them clean and smooth, then cover them in mold release and
start laying up fiberglass on them. Once it has cured and has been
given proper supports, you have a female mold that can be used to make
an almost unlimited number of fiberglass, carbon fiber, or other
composite panels. It is something that can be done in both one off,
medium volume, and high volume production, and that a boat maker could
do for you, or that you could even do yourself at home if you have some
tools and are willing to do the research on and practice a bit.
--
Ciao,
Bryce Ludwig
2003 Peugeot Looxor 150
Navy Kurt
> the wrong answer is always "a Stella".
>
> David
wow that's a real hate thing you got going for mods and vespas. i'm a
skinhead. and my bike is both a daily transport, fashion accesory (a
bajaj btw) and a hobby.
i don't think the stella is a bad starter bike at all. twist and go
bikes are fine
but i think a 4 speed keeps your head in the ballgame better. plastic
or metal? it's a personal preference obviously but why would you spend
all that money for a "retro" japanese scooter (or a rebadge) when you
can have the real deal for a little more. of course the "sport" style
scoots are made of plastic for pbvious reasons. well, obvious to me.
but i don't think they really have sporty characteristics. there are
some big exceptions. the kymco super 9 is faster than any 50 cc has
the right to be (how can you not love that?). i've never ridden a
peugot or aprilia sport scoot but i understand that their the shit.
the malagutti
yesterday is fucking rediculous. if you have to have a plastic retro
look into tng. or honda or yamaha. but for the money it's all metal
all the way.
Navy Kurt
> The Kymco People is a modern, reliable AUTOMATIC scooter with big
> wheels.
>
> The Stella is a cheap, Indian-made clone of the classic OLD
> MANUAL-TRANSMISSION Vespa PX.
>
> Some are into the vintage thing, so I guess they're happy with the
> Stella. For the rest of us, it's a relic -- and a weak one at that.
> Can it even do 55 mph?
my bajaj does 55 reliably and it's a 4stroke.
> I wouldn't touch one for free myself.
that's over stating it, don't you think?
I wouldn't buy an Indian car.
> I wouldn't buy an Indian anything mechanical or electronic. I most
> definitely wouldn't buy a Stella. I predict they'll all be
> rust-buckets within 4 years.
but then again....my bajaj is 2 years old and kept outside 9 months
out of the year. not a spot of rust is on it.
>
> Indian alloys seem to go that way every time (ever buy anything metal
> and made in India from Marshalls/TJ MAX?).
>
> I prefer to buy new, modern technology, not ugly 40 year old
> technology.
ugly? are you kidding? i like kymco's but if you think their
attractive and vespa are ugly i'd strongly advise you to have your
eyes checked. it's like thinking a pollack is prettier than a monet.
beauty is in the eye of the beholder.......
>
> My advice? GO WITH THE KYMCO.
worse advise, however, has been given. kymco's are wonderful scoots.
their uglier than vespa and stella and bajaj but i'm more of a monet
kinda guy. they do have a good parts availability, after market
goodies, and they have few mechanical problems. my only complaint
about the b&w 250 is the floor boards. you have to ride with your feet
at what i consider to be a funny angle. you can't really put your feet
flat on the floor boards. i like to have room to move my feet on the
floor boards. but that's me.
Navy Kurt
>
> I have ridden my Vespa from chicago to ann arbor MI, and back. twice.
> and to milwaukee, several times. and indianapolis.
were you at the ann arbor rally a few weeks back? and more impotantly
do you have access to any more moonshine?
cha cha
yes i was, chad from chicago, im sure i can access some o' that hodge
made blend of sugar and death.
cha cha
> Elestart in the mid-80s. It's basically the same damned bike as the Stella,
> aside from LML's addition of Bitubo gas shocks, Grimeca front brake, more
> modern electricals, and a catalyzed exhaust. That PX150 would do 55, yes,
> maybe 60mph, but it was *completely wound out* in 4th gear at 60. It
> cruised best at 45-50, not 55. At 55, it was buzzy and twitchy, earning its
> Vespa moniker in droves.
you are just plain wrong, i would have to say, and that motor performs
fine wide open. for hours on end.
Know what happens when you take one of those
> little buggers on the interstate? Hint -- you end up squashed like a bug on
> a windshield on a Freightliner's front grille.
I take my p200 on the interstate all the time. and i was on a BAJAJ
chetak hitting 65 yesterday.
>
> Why kit out the bike with a larger cylinder head? Shouldn't the bike be
> sufficient in its stock configuration?
it should be a 200, but we cant have everything.
> And those dented panels usually end up *rusting* despite your repairs. Of
> course, part of the problem is that they're Indian-made...
italian isnt much better, but if the work is done RIGHT, you'll be
fine.
> > i hearitly disagree.
>
> You're a partisan fanatic, we would expect no less from you.
but then again, so are you...
-=ๆฝฑemm๎ข=-
>but for the money it's all metal
> all the way.
Oi !!
Do you like a Les Paul through a Marshal or a Tiawanbanez
through a Line6 ?
--
-=ๆฝฑemm๎ข=-
cha cha
> Hate to be stereotypical, but far too many Harley riders are weekend
> warriors who've never ridden in the rain 'cause they'd drown with their nose
> that high in the air. They have no respect for anything that doesn't have
> the HD logo on it, including toilet paper.
>
> Overall, I completely agree with you - it's the mentality, not the ride.
yeah!
1%ers!
To quote the not- so- venerable Outlaws website:
"The 1%er definition as we see it is one that explains our commitment
to Biking and Brotherhood. We ride our motorcycles every day rain or
shine. We ride thousands of miles each year with our Brothers to
attend parties, social events, funerals and just plain spending time
together. We work, have families and do all the things that our
neighbors do. In addition to that we belong to a Brotherhood that we
are able to combine with our day to day lives."
cha cha
> for mod lifestyle or anything. I have an acquaintance who is all
> skinhead and has a vintage scooter because his lifestyle dictates that
> he does. He has a friend named English Mike who has a few scooters, and
> is a mechanic for the local scooter dealer. English Mike also set my
> friend's leg on fire just cause he thought it was funny. So anyone who
> has a scooter as an accesory to a lifestyle is a bit suspect in my book,
> but a good rally would be fun.
Chicago rally, Sept 2-5 '04. Biggest rally in the midwest.
Defilers rally, the next weekend, up in Kansasville Wisconsin.. not a
BIG rally, bit definitely the most interesting. Jump your scooter thru
a burning ring of fire (yes, really).
sounds like alot of work. but still, cheap and plentiful is what i
like, either way.
SoCalMike
>
> To quote the not- so- venerable Outlaws website:
>
> "The 1%er definition as we see it is one that explains our commitment
> to Biking and Brotherhood. We ride our motorcycles every day rain or
> shine. We ride thousands of miles each year with our Brothers to
> attend parties, social events, funerals and just plain spending time
> together. We work, have families and do all the things that our
> neighbors do. In addition to that we belong to a Brotherhood that we
> are able to combine with our day to day lives."
that, and running meth coast to coast.
Bryce Ludwig
>> So anyone who has a scooter as an accesory to a lifestyle is
>> a bit suspect in my book, but a good rally would be fun.
>
> Chicago rally, Sept 2-5 '04. Biggest rally in the midwest.
>
> Defilers rally, the next weekend, up in Kansasville Wisconsin.. not a
> BIG rally, bit definitely the most interesting. Jump your scooter thru
> a burning ring of fire (yes, really).
Have you ever done that portion of the event? I don't think I'll make
it to Chicago or Wisconsin for a rally, mostly because I don't have time
for driving that far, and I don't have a truck, SUV, van or trailer for
a car to bring the scooter with.
>> Plastics have an advantage here because you could get a few good
>> panels, and then get them clean and smooth, then cover them in mold
>> release and start laying up fiberglass on them. Once it has cured
>> and has been given proper supports, you have a female mold that can
>> be used to make an almost unlimited number of fiberglass, carbon
>> fiber, or other composite panels. It is something that can be done
>> in both one off, medium volume, and high volume production, and that
>> a boat maker could do for you, or that you could even do yourself at
>> home if you have some tools and are willing to do the research on and
>> practice a bit.
>
> sounds like alot of work. but still, cheap and plentiful is what i
> like, either way.
>
Well, either way is a lot of work, or some $. Can you imagine taking
your Vespa to a local auto body collision shop to have it repaired? The
ones in my area wouldn't have a clue what to do with one. However, if
you have a P series or a clone of one, you could probably get most metal
pieces forever, but on an ET, nah, and besides the ET has plenty of
plastic pieces on it. That's why I laugh when the Vespaphiles tell me
that thier scooters are so great because of the "all-metal" construction
of Vespas. All metal excludes front fenders, horn grilles, parts of the
handlebar covers, etc? ET and GT parts aren't ever going to be cheap in
the US, at least if you have to buy parts from the boutiques.
Bryce Ludwig
$JR4.151920@attbi_s54:
Hey, it's a way to make a living, I suppose. My wife grew up in a little
lake community between Blue Springs, MO, and Independence, MO, the meth
capital of the world, but you hear less about meth in the midwest than in
the western states. When I was in Wyoming they had PSAs on tv about
Wyoming having meth problems, and there was a billboard called "Extreme
Meth Makeover", where they took a pretty woman in the before picture and
showed her looking like hell and missing some teeth in the after picture.
Dave Wood
shifter, pollutazoa two-stroke and all. Of course that was back in the '80s
when men were, by god, men and not a bunch of whiny, girly-man plastic
mongers. Everyone learned on shifter bikes then. I'm thinkin' of gettin' a
sticker on my scooter that says "bite my shiny metal ass". YMMV.
-Dave Wood
"Navy Kurt" <navy...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:8b7b01f5.04072...@posting.google.com...
Bryce Ludwig
news:2bhOc.2544$9Y6....@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net:
> You tell 'em, Navy Kurt! My first bike (that ran) was a P200E - metal
> body, shifter, pollutazoa two-stroke and all. Of course that was back
> in the '80s when men were, by god, men and not a bunch of whiny,
> girly-man plastic mongers. Everyone learned on shifter bikes then.
> I'm thinkin' of gettin' a sticker on my scooter that says "bite my
> shiny metal ass". YMMV.
>
> -Dave Wood
Go Bender, it's your birthday!
Zach
gripe, and I have a lot of respect for them because they actually care about
their history and that of motorcycles. Truth be told, I fall into the 1%er
category, which BTW has nothing to do with meth production or distribution.
Google the history of the 1%er term, it ain't exactly about living on your
ride.
Back to the main topic, my heartburn is with the doctor or lawyer RUB who
buy into the culture thinking it will somehow bestow them with cool-factor.
They have the money to get every material item on the free market emblazoned
with the HD emblem, and if you're not wearing something similar, well, you
shouldn't be let out in public. "HD" is all they want to hear about. They
are the very definition of a fanatic - a person who won't change their mind
and won't change the subject. Ask them about the HD / AMF "Bowling Ball"
days - they won't have a clue. To them, the V-rod is the two-wheeled
superior to a Lexus. They don't change their own oil, they have no idea
where the carburetor (or throttle body) is, and if their bike breaks down,
well, AAA is just a cell-phone call away. They're snobs, regardless of
whether or not they ride, and bikers are better off without them.
"cha cha" <ban...@burtreynolds.org> wrote in message
news:5396721f.04072...@posting.google.com...
cha cha
oh yeah, that too. heh.
cha cha
a burning ring of fire (yes, really).
>
> Have you ever done that portion of the event? I don't think I'll make
> it to Chicago or Wisconsin for a rally, mostly because I don't have time
> for driving that far, and I don't have a truck, SUV, van or trailer for
> a car to bring the scooter with.
im not THAT dumb. i ride up there, i dont need a tow truck to get home.
besides, i was ... occupied... in the cornfield at the time.
> > sounds like alot of work. but still, cheap and plentiful is what i
> > like, either way.
> >
>
> Well, either way is a lot of work, or some $. Can you imagine taking
> your Vespa to a local auto body collision shop to have it repaired? The
> ones in my area wouldn't have a clue what to do with one. However, if
> you have a P series or a clone of one, you could probably get most metal
> pieces forever, but on an ET, nah, and besides the ET has plenty of
> plastic pieces on it. That's why I laugh when the Vespaphiles tell me
> that thier scooters are so great because of the "all-metal" construction
> of Vespas. All metal excludes front fenders, horn grilles, parts of the
> handlebar covers, etc? ET and GT parts aren't ever going to be cheap in
> the US, at least if you have to buy parts from the boutiques.
yep yep
cha cha
> Even some 1%er's can appreciate an old Norton or Triumph. They're not my
> gripe, and I have a lot of respect for them because they actually care about
> their history and that of motorcycles. Truth be told, I fall into the 1%er
> category, which BTW has nothing to do with meth production or distribution.
> Google the history of the 1%er term, it ain't exactly about living on your
> ride.
>
> Back to the main topic, my heartburn is with the doctor or lawyer RUB who
> buy into the culture thinking it will somehow bestow them with cool-factor.
> They have the money to get every material item on the free market emblazoned
> with the HD emblem, and if you're not wearing something similar, well, you
> shouldn't be let out in public. "HD" is all they want to hear about. They
> are the very definition of a fanatic - a person who won't change their mind
> and won't change the subject. Ask them about the HD / AMF "Bowling Ball"
> days - they won't have a clue. To them, the V-rod is the two-wheeled
> superior to a Lexus. They don't change their own oil, they have no idea
> where the carburetor (or throttle body) is, and if their bike breaks down,
> well, AAA is just a cell-phone call away. They're snobs, regardless of
> whether or not they ride, and bikers are better off without them.
>
i agree
how much shit will i get if i put a 1%er patch on this jacket?
http://www.textamerica.com/user.images.san/87/IMG_366687/_0726%5CT40407262242411.jpg
Bryce Ludwig
> Bryce Ludwig <fiat...@nospam.yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:<10gis9d...@corp.supernews.com>...
> a burning ring of fire (yes, really).
>>
>> Have you ever done that portion of the event? I don't think I'll
>> make it to Chicago or Wisconsin for a rally, mostly because I don't
>> have time for driving that far, and I don't have a truck, SUV, van or
>> trailer for a car to bring the scooter with.
>
>
> im not THAT dumb. i ride up there, i dont need a tow truck to get
> home.
I don't know where you're from, but I'm not going to ride from Kansas City
to Chicago on a 150cc scooter. I want something that will do at least 85
or 90mph. I'm not that hardcore, and don't want to be.
Charles Pisano
Bryce Ludwig
news:20880-410...@storefull-3277.bay.webtv.net:
> Not sure who mentioned being a vegetarian, but it can be really bad
> for you depending on what your blood type is. Some of us 'should' be
> veggies and most of us NOT! (Then again , If you are what you eat,
> I'm a pussy.)
>
> I like the People type scooter myself. But Heavy Metal Rock is not
> bad. Harley is just overpriced hype (to me the automobile equivalent
> of a Ford Mustang).
Yeah, but Harleys compared to other bikes are way more expensive. The
automotive equivalent would be like spending $25,000+ on a Mustang when a
McLaren F1 will cost you only $10,000.
Eric Franz
> Damn - the classics I've ridden are kick-start. Including the Stella. Of
> course, I might have missed a big red button under my right thumb, and
> decided to kick-start it just for giggles, cause I like having a sore leg
by
> the end of the day.
>
come on now- a sore leg by the end of the day? if you're kicking it more
than 3-4 times, you're having problems, and you shouldn't even have to do
that on a new Stella. my 78 p125x that probably isn't tuned well since I
haven't done a plug chop since last year starts on 3 when it's cold. if
kickstarting it is that much of an issue, I sure hope you don't ever have to
walk up a flight of stairs, cause you won't have legs by that point.
Eric
PWB
> > They "cruise 55 easy"? What planet are you ON? I owned a 1984 PX150
> > Elestart in the mid-80s. It's basically the same damned bike as the
Stella,
> > aside from LML's addition of Bitubo gas shocks, Grimeca front brake,
more
> > modern electricals, and a catalyzed exhaust. That PX150 would do 55,
yes,
> > maybe 60mph, but it was *completely wound out* in 4th gear at 60. It
> > cruised best at 45-50, not 55. At 55, it was buzzy and twitchy, earning
its
> > Vespa moniker in droves.
>
> you are just plain wrong, i would have to say, and that motor performs
> fine wide open. for hours on end.
I didn't say that the engine couldn't perform WOT for extended periods
(though I note that 2-strokes, by their nature, SHOULDN'T be run WOT for
extended periods -- it shortens their lifespan significantly). I said that
the PX150, at 55+ mph, was buzzy (because the engine was revving hard) and
twitchy in terms of handling. And it was.
>
> Know what happens when you take one of those
> > little buggers on the interstate? Hint -- you end up squashed like a
bug on
> > a windshield on a Freightliner's front grille.
>
> I take my p200 on the interstate all the time. and i was on a BAJAJ
> chetak hitting 65 yesterday.
You are either fearless or crazy. Only a lunatic takes a 12hp P200 on
interstate highways.
I take my AN650 on the highway all the time, but that's because it cruises
readily at 70mph, and can easily ramp up to 80mph in a few seconds to
pass slower traffic. A P200 can't do that, and is a hazard to itself and
everyone else on the road.
<snip>
> > You're a partisan fanatic, we would expect no less from you.
>
> but then again, so are you...
I'm not a fanatic, I'm a realist. Know the difference.
PWB
Eric Franz
some people in this world prefer to maintain some sort of style and
credibility along with functionality rather than sucking in plastic culture
and defending it like it's worth saving- you can prove me wrong when you're
still riding your same plastic panel 10-15 years from now.....
on the interstate note, scooters were never even meant for interstate
travel- the maxi scoots out today are just underpowered automatic ugly
motorcycles. there's a reason they never put big engines in them(>250) til
recent times, it's because they're .just.not.designed. for long distance
high speed use.
rusting isn't difficult to prevent either.
Eric
p.s. the ties scooters have to skinhead culture are just one more reason for
it to be appealing to me. just like you want to be a yuppie.
"PWB" <NOS...@NOSPAM.rNOSPAMr.com> wrote in message
news:3YxNc.2001$CH6....@fe2.columbus.rr.com...
> "cha cha" <ban...@burtreynolds.org> wrote in message
> news:5396721f.04072...@posting.google.com...
> > da...@comcast.net (David) wrote in message
> news:<781dd1b7.04072...@posting.google.com>...
> > > Cha-Cha, you're just like the weenies in the scooter club where I
> > > live.
> > >
> > > Here's logic:
> > >
> > > Classic Vespas are "all that" because, according to you, they:
> > >
> > > 1) Last Forever
> > >
> > > Then why all this excitement over the Stella? I thought you all HATE
> > > anything new, and since your classic Vespas last forever, why would a
> > > new non-Italian scooter (an imitation) interest you?
> >
> > people ask too much for an old vespa. its like getting one brand new,
> > without havingh to work on it. but then again, i have an old vespa, i
> > dont need a stella.
> >
> > >
> > > 2) Can be ridden anywhere
> > >
> > > B.S. It's a weak 150cc scooter that's only 10HP and can't even
> > > sustain 55mph. It's not highway-legal everywhere, and even if it
> > > were, it would get creamed because it's was too slow to travel on the
> > > Interstates.
> >
> > and they cruise 55 easy. . . if you dont like the performance, put a
> > 177 kit on it.
>
> They "cruise 55 easy"? What planet are you ON? I owned a 1984 PX150
> Elestart in the mid-80s. It's basically the same damned bike as the
Stella,
> aside from LML's addition of Bitubo gas shocks, Grimeca front brake, more
> modern electricals, and a catalyzed exhaust. That PX150 would do 55, yes,
> maybe 60mph, but it was *completely wound out* in 4th gear at 60. It
> cruised best at 45-50, not 55. At 55, it was buzzy and twitchy, earning
its
> Vespa moniker in droves. Know what happens when you take one of those
> little buggers on the interstate? Hint -- you end up squashed like a bug
on
> a windshield on a Freightliner's front grille.
>
> Why kit out the bike with a larger cylinder head? Shouldn't the bike be
> sufficient in its stock configuration?
>
> > >
> > > 3) Are cool
> > >
> > > Nothing cool about them in my eyes. They look stupid and OLD.
> >
> > im stupid and old, so it fits me.
>
> At least you're honest...
>
> > > 4) Are practical
> > >
> > > For the REST of us, our scooters are our cars. They aren't some Ska
> > > accesory. We use them EVERY DAY -- not just once a week to get to the
> > > Mod-wannabe drink-n-drive fest.
> > >
> > > We need speed, power, storage, comfort and safety. It's not about a
> > > "look", it's about transportation.
> >
> > rest of who? my vespa has been my only car for 5 years. dont even
> > think about claiming i dont know shit about practicality and
> > 'transportation'
> >
> > i hate mods.
> >
> > i DO, however, enjoy scooter rallies.
> >
> >
> > >
> > > 5) Autos have plastic panels
> > >
> > > So what? The frames are steel or aluminum trellises and are very,
> > > very strong. Plastics are a way of life in the 21st century.
> > > Plastics don't dent or rust. Plastics can be made to be very strong.
> > > All you get for your steel is a much heavier than it ought to be
> > > scooter with a weak engine that has to pull excessive weight because
> > > it's all metal.
> >
> > banging a dent out is more practical and cheaper than buying a new
> > plastic panel.
>
> And those dented panels usually end up *rusting* despite your repairs. Of
> course, part of the problem is that they're Indian-made...
>
> > >
> > > 6) Fit and Finish are superior
> > >
> > > Compared to what? A rusted out old shell of a classic scooter? Well,
> > > I should hope so.
> > >
> > > Every ride I ever went on with the scooter club, one of those classic
> > > Vespas would break down. EVERY TIME. When they weren't broken down,
> > > they were belching out smoke so thick, we couldn't breath -- so we
> > > [easily] passed them.
> > >
> > > Enjoy your Model-T. We prefer Lexus.
> >
> > i'd rather have a t bucket hot rod 8 days of the week compared to a
> > lexus.
>
> A vintage Vespa or Lammy, or a Vespa knock-off, is NOT a "t bucket hot
rod".
> It's an antediluvian relic that should be put out to pasture or sent to a
> museum.
>
> > > Whenever a newbie asks which scooter he or she should start out on,
> > > the wrong answer is always "a Stella".
> > >
> > > David
> >
> > i hearitly disagree.
PWB
news:9odsg0p51mbtve141...@4ax.com...
> "Eric Franz" wrote:
>
> >hahaha! put out to pasture? do you seriously believe that? it's
ridiculous.
> >some people in this world prefer to maintain some sort of style and
> >credibility along with functionality rather than sucking in plastic
culture
> >and defending it like it's worth saving- you can prove me wrong when
you're
> >still riding your same plastic panel 10-15 years from now.....
> >
> >on the interstate note, scooters were never even meant for interstate
> >travel- the maxi scoots out today are just underpowered automatic ugly
> >motorcycles. there's a reason they never put big engines in them(>250)
til
> >recent times, it's because they're .just.not.designed. for long distance
> >high speed use.
> >
> >rusting isn't difficult to prevent either.
>
> several years. Since the maxi-scoots came out, and more models (of all
> sizes) became available in the US, the "metal is better, plastic is
> trash" talk died down.
>
> Ah nostalgia :-)
Don't you just looooove the "classic scooter snobs"?
<heh>
PWB
David
> still riding your same plastic panel 10-15 years from now.....
Okay -- YOU'RE WRONG :P. Honda Elites and Yamaha Rivas are older than
that, still looking and running well.
In that same time period, how many new rust spots has your Vespa or
Lambretta developed (if it's still running)?
> > on the interstate note, scooters were never even meant for interstate
> travel- the maxi scoots out today are just underpowered automatic ugly
> motorcycles. there's a reason they never put big engines in them(>250) til
> recent times, it's because they're .just.not.designed. for long distance
> high speed use.
You're just jealous, because yours can't hack it.
Believe me, the Burgmans can handle the highway as well as any
cruiser. Most "motorcycles" weigh less, many have smaller
displacements and less HP, and smaller wheelbases.
The Burgman 650 is most assuredly designed for the interstate, and by
no stretch of the imagination could anyone call it "underpowered".
> > rusting isn't difficult to prevent either.
>
> Eric
> p.s. the ties scooters have to skinhead culture are just one more reason for
> it to be appealing to me. just like you want to be a yuppie.
>
So I take it you're a Neo-Nazi too? They have ties to skinhead
"culture".
D.
Bryce Ludwig
news:8lsPc.3811$975....@fe2.columbus.rr.com:
>> *snort* Heh. I haven't seen modern scooter-bashing like this in
>> several years. Since the maxi-scoots came out, and more models (of
>> all sizes) became available in the US, the "metal is better, plastic
>> is trash" talk died down.
>>
>> Ah nostalgia :-)
>
> Don't you just looooove the "classic scooter snobs"?
>
> <heh>
I don't get it. It's like people who have old cars bashing on new ones.
That died off because for the purpose of driving and using as
transportation, a modern car is generally better than an old one. Most
old cars used as daily transportation have been updated with enough
modern technology to make them reliable and livable by modern standards.
When I was shopping for a scooter to use everyday, I ruled out classic
scooters because a points ignition is not reliable over a variety of
conditions. Old school carbs are also not very adaptive. The brakes on
old scooters pretty much suck compared to new stuff, and considering
that any part I would need would have to be mail order, I just couldn't
do it. I would however ride a Stella. It's got a modern carb, modern
ignition and a few updates to make the classic experience possible on a
daily basis. I chose to get a plastic automatic because not only was it
reliable, it handled better, braked better and accelerated better than a
Stella or Bajaj. Not that I'm looking for sport bike performance, but
I'm not going to go slower than I have to in order to look cool or have
"the scootering experience". Now, if I wanted a toy to tinker with, and
ride on weekends or nice days to work and had absolutely no intention of
relying upon it for transportation, I would have a classic Lambretta,
Vespa, or perhaps a Harley-Davidson Topper (also plastic bodied, by the
way) in a heartbeat. I'm sure it would be plenty of fun, but since I
don't have the time, money, or space for 2 scooters, I bought the one
that suited best. Not everyone is a tinkerer (although I am), and if
that's part of "the scootering experience", screw the experience.
Bryce Ludwig
news:781dd1b7.04080...@posting.google.com:
>> p.s. the ties scooters have to skinhead culture are just one more
>> reason for it to be appealing to me. just like you want to be a
>> yuppie.
>>
> So I take it you're a Neo-Nazi too? They have ties to skinhead
> "culture".
>
> D.
>
One of those skins set my friend's leg on fire. My friend was friends with
a fellow named Benjy, and his skinhead buddy English Mike set my friend's
pant leg on fire just to be an asshole. Todd hadn't met Mike, and Mike
just did it (probably with Benjy's putting him up to it). So I'd take
yuppies over assaulting assholes anyday. At least I don't go to the ER if
a yuppie doesn't like me.
PWB
I hear you.
Both my Kymco P150 and its replacement, the Suzuki AN650, were bought as
practical commuter vehicles. I didn't buy them in order to buy into some
sort of lifestyle or experience, I bought them as TRANSPORTATION. They've
both served that purpose well.
Of course, the Burgman 650 is an absolute freakin' blast to ride, as well,
in ways no Vespa PX150 or KYMCO People 150 ever could be, but that's just a
bonus feature. <G>
PWB
PWB
> hahaha! put out to pasture? do you seriously believe that? it's
ridiculous.
> some people in this world prefer to maintain some sort of style and
> credibility along with functionality rather than sucking in plastic
culture
> and defending it like it's worth saving- you can prove me wrong when
you're
> still riding your same plastic panel 10-15 years from now.....
>
> on the interstate note, scooters were never even meant for interstate
> travel- the maxi scoots out today are just underpowered automatic ugly
> motorcycles. there's a reason they never put big engines in them(>250) til
> recent times, it's because they're .just.not.designed. for long distance
> high speed use.
>
> rusting isn't difficult to prevent either.
>
> Eric
> p.s. the ties scooters have to skinhead culture are just one more reason
for
> it to be appealing to me. just like you want to be a yuppie.
WANT to be a yuppie?
AM a yuppie, and a paid corporate whore, beeyotch. And proud of it.
You're welcome.
PWB
Eric Franz
"David" <da...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:781dd1b7.04080...@posting.google.com...
> "Eric Franz" <maj...@cox.net> wrote in message news:<3lkPc.3504you can
prove me wrong when you're
> > still riding your same plastic panel 10-15 years from now.....
>
> Okay -- YOU'RE WRONG :P. Honda Elites and Yamaha Rivas are older than
> that, still looking and running well.
>
> In that same time period, how many new rust spots has your Vespa or
> Lambretta developed (if it's still running)?
only if they're well cared for- which is the point. most buyers of plastic
scooters don't know how to take care of them properly themselves and thus
discard when they "wear out"(note that I say most, not all). my
vespa(granted, it's a 78, not that old, and on the fringe of what could be
considered a classic, since it's a p) still looks good and has only ever had
small wearing out maintenance done on it(notably the carb being totally
rebuilt and rewiring/recabling)...the clutch system works well still and
hasn't ever been altered. the only rust on the body is the result of it
being dropped at some point before I owned it and never being touched up,
which I'm going to be taking care of once I get out of the debt hole I'm
currently in..... http://members.cox.net/majisto/vespa3.jpg ....pretty
decent for 26-27 year old paint.
>
> > > on the interstate note, scooters were never even meant for interstate
> > travel- the maxi scoots out today are just underpowered automatic ugly
> > motorcycles. there's a reason they never put big engines in them(>250)
til
> > recent times, it's because they're .just.not.designed. for long distance
> > high speed use.
>
> You're just jealous, because yours can't hack it.
>
> Believe me, the Burgmans can handle the highway as well as any
> cruiser. Most "motorcycles" weigh less, many have smaller
> displacements and less HP, and smaller wheelbases.
>
> The Burgman 650 is most assuredly designed for the interstate, and by
> no stretch of the imagination could anyone call it "underpowered".
yeah, you're right, i'm jealous that I don't have have a la-z boy on wheels.
but like i said, the big maxi cruisers are just ugly motorcycles. the
burgman could hardly even be considered to have a step through frame.
>
> > > rusting isn't difficult to prevent either.
> >
>
> > Eric
> > p.s. the ties scooters have to skinhead culture are just one more reason
for
> > it to be appealing to me. just like you want to be a yuppie.
> >
> So I take it you're a Neo-Nazi too? They have ties to skinhead
> "culture".
>
the only "ties" they have to skinhead culture are through white power brutes
who had no concept of culture or history and were looking for something to
align themselves with and thus scapegoat against.
David
> but like i said, the big maxi cruisers are just ugly motorcycles. the
> burgman could hardly even be considered to have a step through frame.
>
Ummmm...I don't recall ever knocking knees with a gas tank, nor do I
have to swing my leg over the back to mount/dismount, so I think it
meets the definition of a "step-through".
You can sit "traditionally", with your legs at a 90ยบ angle and feet
parallel to the ground, if you wish.
David
Navy Kurt
> > do you have access to any more moonshine?
>
> yes i was, chad from chicago, im sure i can access some o' that hodge
> made blend of sugar and death.
it gave me a perculiar hangover, but it went away quick. of course i
remember a could of pulls of vodka and a couple of beers.
SoCalMike
> only if they're well cared for- which is the point. most buyers of plastic
> scooters don't know how to take care of them properly themselves and thus
> discard when they "wear out"(note that I say most, not all)
eh, ive only run across "cheap" scooters, like older 50s and 80s that
have been neglected.
the vintage vespa i bought for $50 and sold for $500 was a basket case.
scootgirl.com
> with"
>
> i thought, perhaps, it was "i want a scooter that is a scooter, and an
> investment in a quality machine that will last me a long time and make
> me happy." if you want a geo metro, buy one. or a kymco.
>
> if you want a scooter, buy a stella.
>
> who gives a flying f*ck how much storage you have under the seat?
>
> ooh. ill forego all good taste to fit my crappy 1/2 helmet that wont
> save my face when i crash (and you will.. sooner or later) under my
> seat.
>
> if you need a commuter bike, buy a goddamn moped. if you are too lazy
> to learn how to ride a real bike, buy a kymco. when you grow up, and
> buy a stella, or vintage vespa or lammie, then we'll talk.
I used to think you were kewl.
Now you sound like Dave who diss'ed the Stella.
I just knew that troll would bring out the bad in some people.
cha cha
>
> AM a yuppie, and a paid corporate whore, beeyotch. And proud of it.
>
>
> You're welcome.
>
that explains everything.
cha cha
you're the people 250 girl.
i was drunk, dont worry about it. i sell kymcos. and i think they are
great. but i wouldnt want one myself... thats just me.
SoCalMike
scootgirl.com wrote:
> "cha cha" <ban...@burtreynolds.org> wrote in message
> news:5396721f.04072...@posting.google.com...
>
>>i didnt realize this was all about "i need a piece of crap to commute
>>with"
>>
>>i thought, perhaps, it was "i want a scooter that is a scooter, and an
>>investment in a quality machine that will last me a long time and make
>>me happy." if you want a geo metro, buy one. or a kymco.
>>
>>if you want a scooter, buy a stella.
>>
>>who gives a flying f*ck how much storage you have under the seat?
maybe people who *Store* things under their seat?
>>
>>ooh. ill forego all good taste to fit my crappy 1/2 helmet that wont
>>save my face when i crash (and you will.. sooner or later) under my
>>seat.
mine fits 2 XL full face, and i can scrunch 2 jackets in there too.
>>
>>if you need a commuter bike, buy a goddamn moped. if you are too lazy
>>to learn how to ride a real bike, buy a kymco. when you grow up, and
>>buy a stella, or vintage vespa or lammie, then we'll talk.
seems all the grownups around the world have kymcos, burgmans, hondas to
commute on.
its the spoiled little twats who never grew up who ride the "stuck in
the 6t's" scooters as they go bar crawling. the 60's are over. they were
likely over before you were born. deal with it.
Eric Franz
>
> seems all the grownups around the world have kymcos, burgmans, hondas to
> commute on.
>
> its the spoiled little twats who never grew up who ride the "stuck in
> the 6t's" scooters as they go bar crawling. the 60's are over. they were
> likely over before you were born. deal with it.
spoiled little twats? are you serious here? have you compared costs of a
reasonable quality vintage with that of the plastic stuff out there? if
anything, people buying vintage(assuming they aren't going to take it to a
shop to have anything reasonably doable) are the ones who are getting
cheaper scooters. the burgman is the same price as a decent used honda
civic. the civic will last you 10 more years probably and not get that much
worse of gas mileage(not saying it's equal, but they still get better
mileage than most any other car on the road if you take care of them). the
only way comparable power plastic panels become roughly equal in price is if
you get what a dealer's trying to get rid of or buy something a few years
old with it's share of mileage on it.
beside that, it's not my fault people had better style 30-40 years ago.
Bryce Ludwig
> spoiled little twats? are you serious here? have you compared costs of
> a reasonable quality vintage with that of the plastic stuff out there?
> if anything, people buying vintage(assuming they aren't going to take
> it to a shop to have anything reasonably doable) are the ones who are
> getting cheaper scooters. the burgman is the same price as a decent
> used honda civic. the civic will last you 10 more years probably and
> not get that much worse of gas mileage(not saying it's equal, but they
> still get better mileage than most any other car on the road if you
> take care of them). the only way comparable power plastic panels
> become roughly equal in price is if you get what a dealer's trying to
> get rid of or buy something a few years old with it's share of mileage
> on it.
>
> beside that, it's not my fault people had better style 30-40 years
> ago.
Considering that a lot of vintage Vespa projects I've seen cost a couple
grand, and are going to need at least another grand of parts and paint
and bodywork, I fail to see how you're getting a cheaper scooter. I've
known people having $5000 tied up in their vintage scooters once they
have done all the mechanical work, the bodywork (almost always hired
out), the paint job (again usually hired out). Also, if you do rely on
a vehicle, it's nice to have one that has some modernity. Electronic
ignitions are awesome. I've driven cars with points ignitions, and I've
even driven older cars with HEI distributors. I'll take the fully
automated system over something else. I'll take disc brakes over drums
also. I like just being able to hop on my scooter and go, without
having to worry about whether or not I'm going to have to do some little
ritual to get it to start. Bajajs and Stellas seem to be fine in this
regard too. Style is pretty subjective, so you're statement is
indicative of someone stuck in the past.
Bryce Ludwig
news:3a3ah0pk25gorjcl6...@4ax.com:
> Bryce Ludwig wrote:
>>known people having $5000 tied up in their vintage scooters once they
>>have done all the mechanical work, the bodywork (almost always hired
>>out), the paint job (again usually hired out). Also, if you do rely
on
>>a vehicle, it's nice to have one that has some modernity.
>
> We'd really like to have a classic car; something from the 30s. We
> know it would be a car that would have to be coddled a bit, and have
> an expectation that fixing the breaks would be more onerous than our
> newer model car. We also know it wouldn't likely be a vehicle that we
> use on the long trips we enjoy - hence, we'd use our modern 4 wheels
> for that. I use a similar analogy for a vintage scooter vs our modern
> ones. I'll take my SW on a 1000 mile jaunt with no worries. If I had a
> 30-40 year old scooter, I'd .... well, I might take it on such a long
> ride, but it wouldn't be with as much aplomb as the SW.
I would love to own a car that old. I feel as though I've owned
something virtually from the '60s though. My Fiat Spider was a 1981
with some new fangled technology for the engine management, but
everything else was pretty much pure 1966 technology. It was
fantastically fun. I would love to own something from the pre-WWII
period as well, but I am not sure that will ever happen with prices of
cars from that period rising all the time. I agree with your analogy.
I would probably take the older car on trips that were carefully
planned, and would take the new car on spur of the moment journeys or
things that are a bit more time sensitive.
>>I like just being able to hop on my scooter and go, without
>>having to worry about whether or not I'm going to have to do some
little
>>ritual to get it to start. Bajajs and Stellas seem to be fine in this
>>regard too.
>
> Yeah, well, our household has a dichotomy. A SW, which is get on 'n
> go, and a Ural. It's a 2003, but in the vintage style and has some
> pretty archaic mechanicals. It takes a little ritual to get going;
> farts, belches blue smoke, and clatters something fierce until it
> warms up; and doesn't go as fast as my SW. My riding partner loves it,
> I just shake my head and smile. Thing is, we respect each others'
> rides; we each get a different joy from what we ride. That's how it
> should be among everyone who rides.
>
I do respect other people's rides. I love the old school scooters, but
they aren't in most rational and logical ways better than new scooters.
They are an experience, and probably a very fun one. I applaud Bajajes
and Stellas for their selective updating of older technology to make it
relevant to modern usage. I enjoy having something that is light and
nimble and economical, but still has a decent performance envelope. I
enjoy being able to generally hop on and enjoy it. Last night I had a
problem with fuel starvation, I figured it was the vacuum line to the
fuel tap. It turned out to be that, but as a tear at the manifold end.
A new line with thicker wall, a couple of hose clamps, and $2.88 later I
had my machine running perfectly again today. Despite a warranty until
November, it would have cost me more to get my scooter to a dealership,
and then to have it out of my possesion for a while than it would have
to simple do it myself.
cha cha
I can carry two stroke oil, cables, cargo nets, gloves, two pairs of
glasses, paperwork, and a bag containing ALL the tools neccessary to
completely rebuild my engine in my Vespa P200 glovebox.
anything else i need to put on the bike goes on the front rack or i
hang a mini messenger bag from the handlebars.
>
> its the spoiled little twats who never grew up who ride the "stuck in
> the 6t's" scooters as they go bar crawling. the 60's are over. they were
> likely over before you were born. deal with it.
i ride my vespa to go bar crawling, to go to work, to take a vacation,
to go shopping, to rescue shop customers on their little automatics
who can't get them to start cause they let them sit too long and the
carb jets gum up...
i ride it because its beautiful, functional, fast, and yes, because
its much cooler than anything else i can ride.
cha cha
> reasonable quality vintage with that of the plastic stuff out there? if
> anything, people buying vintage(assuming they aren't going to take it to a
> shop to have anything reasonably doable) are the ones who are getting
> cheaper scooters. the burgman is the same price as a decent used honda
> civic. the civic will last you 10 more years probably and not get that much
> worse of gas mileage(not saying it's equal, but they still get better
> mileage than most any other car on the road if you take care of them). the
> only way comparable power plastic panels become roughly equal in price is if
> you get what a dealer's trying to get rid of or buy something a few years
> old with it's share of mileage on it.
>
> beside that, it's not my fault people had better style 30-40 years ago.
heh.
Bryce Ludwig
news:s4dah0lh78q464kb2...@4ax.com:
> Bryce Ludwig wrote:
>
>>I do respect other people's rides. I love the old school scooters, but
>>they aren't in most rational and logical ways better than new scooters.
>
> Not a slam at you, at that ... that ... *other* person. :-)
>
> I've learned from reading the motorcycle boards (beginnerbikes.com)
> that the best philosophy is "ride your own ride. respect people for
> theirs". Unfortunately, that idea hasn't caught on with some scooter
> riders.
>
Ah, I see now what you mean. I have to say that there probably isn't any
motorcycle out there that I wouldn't want to ride at least once. There may
be a couple that I wouldn't for lack of skill, but nothing I wouldn't want
to try out.
Bryce Ludwig
news:5396721f.0408...@posting.google.com:
>> maybe people who *Store* things under their seat?
>
> I can carry two stroke oil, cables, cargo nets, gloves, two pairs of
> glasses, paperwork, and a bag containing ALL the tools neccessary to
> completely rebuild my engine in my Vespa P200 glovebox.
>
> anything else i need to put on the bike goes on the front rack or i
> hang a mini messenger bag from the handlebars.
Well, that's nice, but some automatics (not all though) can hold things
like a helmet and other stuff that isn't maintenance related. See, the
idea of carrying the tools you would need to rebuild the engine is
pretty unattractive to a lot of folks. I personally am not opposed, but
I'd rather do it in a shop where I can do what I feel is a proper job of
it. However, if getting stuff fixed so you can go again is cool to you
and you don't mind working on the side of the road, you've got some
applause from me.
>>
>> its the spoiled little twats who never grew up who ride the "stuck in
>> the 6t's" scooters as they go bar crawling. the 60's are over. they
>> were likely over before you were born. deal with it.
>
>
> i ride my vespa to go bar crawling, to go to work, to take a vacation,
> to go shopping, to rescue shop customers on their little automatics
> who can't get them to start cause they let them sit too long and the
> carb jets gum up...
Yeah, you can do all that on the old school bikes. However, you're
still showing disdain for new bikes here. No need to hate on them
because it isn't the same as your bike, and people who ride aren't
mechanically inclined, or want a different experience than your bike
provides.
> i ride it because its beautiful, functional, fast,
In stock form there are fast geared scooters? Which ones, and what
specifically do you ride? I was always under the impression that geared
scooters weren't all that fast unless given some hardcore treatments
from Malossi or Polini. I do know that my 150cc 4 stroke automatic is
more powerful than a Stella, accelerates faster and has a higher top
speed. I still like Stellas, but objectively, I have more performance
than one in speed, acceleration and braking, and quite likely in
handling too.
> and yes, because
> its much cooler than anything else i can ride.
"Well, that's just, like, your opinion, man." - The Dude
scootgirl.com
[snip]
> I'd like to go to a really good rally at some point, but I don't care
> for mod lifestyle or anything. I have an acquaintance who is all
> skinhead and has a vintage scooter because his lifestyle dictates that
> he does. He has a friend named English Mike who has a few scooters, and
> is a mechanic for the local scooter dealer. English Mike also set my
> friend's leg on fire just cause he thought it was funny. So anyone who
> has a scooter as an accesory to a lifestyle is a bit suspect in my book,
> but a good rally would be fun.
>
[snip]
Did he press charges for assault? If someone sent me to the hospital I would
certainly press charges.
Bryce Ludwig
news:10hfjbh...@corp.supernews.com:
You know, I am fairly certain they did. However, the friend in common
wouldn't rat out his buddy, so I don't think they ever arrested him or
anything. I know that my friend and his wife filed a police report, but
I haven't heard anything as an update.
scootgirl.com
[snip]
> You know, I am fairly certain they did. However, the friend in common
> wouldn't rat out his buddy, so I don't think they ever arrested him or
> anything. I know that my friend and his wife filed a police report, but
> I haven't heard anything as an update.
>
That "friend" in common would no longer be a friend too.
Bryce Ludwig
@corp.supernews.com:
Yeah, he isn't anymore. Just used the term for the purpose of
conversation.
pcof...@gmail.com
Thanks.
PaulC
2005 Grandvista 250 w/ 13K miles.
On Saturday, July 24, 2004 2:29:21 PM UTC-7, Zach wrote:
....
> All of Kymco's 250's use the same engine, and the only modification I
> highly recommend would be re-jetting the carb from a #102 to a #108 main
> jet. That gets rid of the off-the-line & roll-on lag but doesn't hurt the
> engine at all. And you'll still get 70 miles per gallon.
>
> BeachBum
> aka Zach