Bob Tiffin Refuses to Replace My Allegro Lemon

[Beachboy3]

My $150,000 Allegro Lemon
Sergio A. Sobredo, Jr., M.D.

My first motorhome. Well, not really. About nine months ago me and my wife
decided to try out the RV thing. I am a contract physician covering emergency
rooms all over the South and thought it would be a great way to travel, and a
good tax write off. We bought a new 28 foot Winnebago Brave. Within a month I
realized I had made a mistake. I was sold on the whole concept of owning a
motorhome mind you, but with the high mileage and time aboard I anticipated, I
really needed something much bigger and better. A "diesel pusher" I was told
would be my solution. After much looking around we settled on a 1997 37 foot
Allegro Bus - just under $150,000. The dealer, Independence RV in Orlando,
gave me a generous allowance on the Brave and we financed the balance. I was
promised a sturdy high quality coach with extremely high customer satisfaction
ratings and factory support. We drove off the lot happy as larks embarking on
what we anticipated would be a long term relationship with our new Allegro.
Then the troubles began. Within a month I had needed to make the 2 hour round
trip to the dealer several times for various repairs. All sorts of problems.
Electrical, generator, jacks, plumbing, imperfections, mechanical. There were
problems on top of problems. The dealer tried to be accommodating initially
but when I began raising the concern that I thought we might have a "lemon"
things changed dramatically. The finger pointing back and forth between dealer
and manufacturer was really pretty amusing. Letters, faxes, calls to service
managers, sales management, and eventually all the way up the ladder to Bob
Tiffin himself. Over the ensuing 6 months my coach would spend over 80 days in
various service departments between Florida and all the way to Texas. The
response was always the same. No problem, bring it in and we'll fix it.
After 6 months of "fixing" problems and being inconvenienced to a degree which
few could understand, remember I was trying to use this coach as main mode of
transportation and lodging for my emergency medicine practice, I ended up in
Texas with more problems. Black and gray water tanks which wouldn't empty
properly, sensors acting bizarrely, and a potentially serious carbon monoxide
alarm malfunction were enough for me to decided to drive to Red Bay, Alabama.
A long 1,500 mile journey in the middle of a record heat summer would surely
be compensated, in some way, by the renowned Bob Tiffin, known everywhere for
his highest customer satisfaction reputation, or so I thought.
On arrival at the Tiffin Motorhomes plant a service mechanic greeted us
telling me how late we were getting in and that they wouldn't really be able to
work on the coach until the next day. I really wasn't interested in more
repairs. Surely Bob Tiffin would offer something else. I was then directed
to Mr. Tiffin's office. After a short wait I finally stood in front of the man
himself. Very courteous, always with a smile, he proceeded to share his
company policies with me. "We really don't buy back coaches, or provide
replacements" he spoke, as I listened in disbelief. He then engaged in some
chit chat about the civil war and the local geography. I had traveled over
half way around the country to hear this. With documentation in hand showing
close to 3 months of countless repairs, expense receipts and bills directly
related to the problems, and about a 1 inch thick stack of work orders I was
led to the door. This could not be happening, but it was.
Fortunately for me I had bought the coach in my home state of Florida where we
have a "Lemon Law", which includes recreational vehicles. After completing the
required Motor Vehicle Defect Notification and providing the supporting
documentation, the law is there to protect individuals such as myself, without
the need to retain costly attorneys and without a long legal drag out battle.
I am currently awaiting results of the Florida Arbitration Board which will
surely issue judgement in my favor and order the manufacturer to repurchase the
vehicle. I feel for those who purchase their RVs in states that don't and are
left at the mercy of other Bob Tiffins in the industry.
Because of my background in medicine I am trained to document everything. In
my case this has been a real asset. Tiffin Motorhomes really doesn't have a
leg to stand on with my overwhelming documentation of the problems and the
chronology of events. Anyone purchasing a new RV should be well aware of the
potential need to have this documentation available when they find themselves
in this most difficult and unpleasant part of R.V.ing.

[George Lowry]

Although Allegro doesn't have near the problems of other
manufacturers, they all seem to be the same. You took the right steps
in documenting and going the "lemon law" route. I suggest you
consider posting to the problems page of <www.rv.com> where you will
see the problems that others have had.

For your next vehicle, consider a converted coach. for more
information, email me. I am not in the business, just had too many
years of experience.

George

[bdpreece]

You might want to check out http://www.rv.org/ The court of public opinion
is interesting. There is already one Allegro complaint on file.

Beachboy3 wrote in message
<199808061930...@ladder01.news.aol.com>...

[D. J. Cooper]

Very interesting story Dr. Sobredo. I hope we all can learn a lesson here.
Dave

Beachboy3 wrote in message
<199808061930...@ladder01.news.aol.com>...
>My $150,000 Allegro Lemon
>Sergio A. Sobredo, Jr., M.D.
>

[JDavis1277]

Did you REALLY expect him to replace your motorhome because you have had some
problems with it? Did you speak to him before driving up to seek a
replacement?

Where are you from, doctor? That's not the way things get done.

Butch-

[D. J. Cooper]

Sure Butch, he should be happy to keep his new motorhome at the dealership
for repairs. Spend lots of money on it. Not be able to use it as intended.
Come off it, I for one am sick of the way customers get treated all too
often, and just are expected to accept some junk because the dotted line was
signed. More power to you Doc!
JMHO
DJ
(Hoping the Doc brings us up to date with his Florida lawsuit)

JDavis1277 wrote in message
<199808101346...@ladder01.news.aol.com>...

[David]

dickh...@att.net wrote:
>
> Yes, it is. It would also be interesting to hear the other side of
> the story. I am going to discuss this with our Allegro salesman
> tomorrow who will be meeting with Bob Tiffen at the FMCA rally in Utah
> next week. Being that we are working on the purchase of a new
> Allegro, we really want to get some feedback from the company.
>
> Dick Hughes
>

Just remember, Dick, that the sales force has a fat profit motive behind
any stories THEY give you.

David M.

[JDavis1277]

My point was not that the good doctor MAY not have been entitled to a lemon law
replacement of his motorhome. He MAY well be entitled to a replacement.

My point was that it was pretty silly to drive to Northern Alabama and expect
to receive a replacement without first checking to see if that was a
possibility. Seems pretty incredibly optomistic to me. Maybe I'm wrong and
motorhomes get exchanged every day. But, I DON'T THINK SO.

When you asre talking about a product that costs upwards of $50 or $100K you
cannot expect to exchange it like a pair of pliers at Sears. From the problems
I read about, I expect they are easily taken care of.

When you go to a dealer with a problem and start talking about keeping lists
and getting a lawyer and the invocation of the lemon law don't be surprised if
they become very wary about dealing with you.

My impression from the post was that the doctor knows very little about RVs and
how to use them. He needs to get a grip and get his coach repaired.

Thanks, Butch-

[Randy H.]

I, too, would like very much to know the outcome of your complaint.
Thanks for sharing your experience.
Good Luck!

Bait for spammers (With credit to E. Needham):
root@localhost
postmaster@localhost
admin@localhost
abuse@localhost
postm...@127.0.0.1

[Michael Schlobohm]

Sounds like the good Dr. was tired of an endless cycle of repairs and
excuses and NEEDED to do something about it. So he took the direct route
hoping to bypass the legal route. Didn't work, now he takes the other
option and thanks to the Internet, Allegro takes a public beating before
thousands.

Hurting the value of your Allegro, Butch? Mike

[JDavis1277]

Mike,

No, I don't own an Allegro. My old Holiday Rambler suits me.

The internet and newsgroups are a great way to vent and air any hard feelings
we may have. But what happened to reasonableness(?)?

Because it is so easy to liable someone with no legal consequenses, some folks
feel free to claim virtually anything about a product or dealer on newsgroups.
I take anything I read in this vein with several grains of salt because I am
reading only one very biased side of the story.

Just because someone claims his Allegro should be replaced and the manufacturer
refused to replace it is not going to restrain any reasonable person from
buying one. I admit they may more closely inspect an Allegro before buying,
but they should closely inspect any unit before signing the documents and
handing over the money.

Believe everything you read here if you like, I don't.

Thanks, Butch-

[Don Low]

I am always amazed at how quick people are to take up someone's cause
after hearing only one side of the story. Now it is quite possible that
the Doctor is justified in wanting his coach replaced but before passing
judgment, I would like to hear the other side of the story. I have
never owned an Allegro but have known several who have and they were
very satisfied with their coaches and the support they received from the
manufacturer. Seems strange that Allegro would take a different
position in this case.

Don, retired in Tracy, Calif.

[JDavis1277]

Don,

I posted similar feelings to yours. I think you put it better than I. Thanks,

Butch

[Michael Schlobohm]

Don, I would also like the other side of the story but I'm pretty sure
were not going to get it. I find most people don't take the time to post
such a message without cause. I can only accept the posting as legit
until someone can provide information to refute it.

His story certainly seems plausible to me. I've read enough postings on
this and other groups to discern the wacko's from the reasonable and the
Doctor seems legit to me. I also consider the Doctor's posting as
anecdotal evidence and would not let it influence my opinion of Allegro
without much more information.

My reason for responding was I think for someone to dismiss the man's
problems and advise him to "get a grip" indicates a poster who has
something at stake or someone without a clue.

If I paid $150K for a world of problems on wheels I probably would have
driven to the presidents house (assuming it would make it there) not to
his business and yes I would have expected that action may force a
resolution. Mike

[Vince Schoenecker]

My thoughts exactly.

[jtho...@my-dejanews.com]

Best of luck to you. We are all fortunate that most states now have lemon
laws to give the customer some leverage. For a very long time it has been
common practice in the automobile and RV industries to knowingly produce a
certain number of "lemons" and then let the randomly chosen consumer take the
hit to their time and wallets to deal with the problems.

To those who have responded with a cynical eye towards the doctor's problem,
may you get a worse lemon than he has.

We are currently going through a major PITA with our new Chrysler minivan on
which the dashboard lighting hasn't worked reliably since day one. It is now
on it's fourth visit to the dealership and while they are being nice about
it, they are scratching their heads trying to figure out what is wrong. So
far it has been in the shop for over three weeks out of the three months we
have owned it. That isn't what we paid our hard earned money for.

We had to overcome a great deal of anti-customer bias given the intermittent
nature of the problem, but eventually we were able to demonstrate the car
failing for them so they believed us. $35,000 cash paid for the vehicle and
it still doesn't work. Chrysler is paying a lot more attention to the
problem as a result of the California lemon law hanging over their heads than
they would otherwise. Anyone who doesn't think so is the one who needs to
"get a grip".

We have yet to see how our case turns out, but I'm glad to have the protection
of lemon laws behind us. Without the lemon laws we would be pretty much
screwed. Chrysler would have our money and we wouldn't have a working van.

John H.

-----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==-----
http://www.dejanews.com/rg_mkgrp.xp Create Your Own Free Member Forum

[jtho...@my-dejanews.com]

[JDavis1277]

John,

Did you REALLY pay $35K for a minivan?

No wonder you're annoyed about the dash lights. If I paid that kind of money
for a minivan I, too, would demand nothing less than perfection.

$35,000!!! Wow!!!

Butch-

[JDavis1277]

I apologize for the offensive tone of my previous post, SAB.

Humor was the intent, but upon reading it again I see I missed the mark.

Butch Davis-

[dcooper@mail.cass.net DJ]

Perhaps it's Canadian dollars??? Or a conversion Mini-Van (a *really good*
one)???
DJ

JDavis1277 wrote in message
<199808231429...@ladder03.news.aol.com>...

[John T. Horner]

JDavis1277 wrote in message
<199808231429...@ladder03.news.aol.com>...
>John,
>
>Did you REALLY pay $35K for a minivan?
>
>No wonder you're annoyed about the dash lights. If I paid that kind of
money
>for a minivan I, too, would demand nothing less than perfection.
>
>$35,000!!! Wow!!!
>
>Butch-

It was/is a high end Town & Country with all the trimmings. $32k plus tax,
title and license comes to > $35k.

US dollars, I'm afraid.

John

[JHNINC]

I'm shocked and would like to hear the rest of the story. We are very happy
Allegro Bus owners and Tiffin has been very generous in fixing problems
regardless of the warranty problem. The experiences of the Dr. just don't seem
typical of the company nor Bob Tiffin. I would like to hear the other side of
the story. In fact, I'll try to send this to Tiffin via e-mail. Hopefully
they will respond.
Jeff
Jeff a.k.a. The Newb
He Who Rests, Rusts!

[Gina Man]

On Sun, 14 Jun 2015 17:22:21 -0700 (PDT), rjqu...@gmail.com wrote:

>I am having problems with 2015 Allegro Bus 45LP with only 4600 miles that I bought new Feb 23, 2015. If you have Bob Tiffins Email how could I get this. If you are on face book, could I friend you and than PM you for his address? R Quandt


Probably brakes going on even when the brake pedal
isn't pushed. Lot's of them do that. Good luck trying
to get it fixed as they will deny, deny, deny even if
thousands of peeps have the same problem with them.

--
Gina

[truc...@gmail.com]

On Tuesday, August 11, 1998 at 12:00:00 AM UTC-7, Don Low wrote:
> Michael Schlobohm wrote:
> >
> > Sounds like the good Dr. was tired of an endless cycle of repairs and
> > excuses and NEEDED to do something about it. So he took the direct route
> > hoping to bypass the legal route. Didn't work, now he takes the other
> > option and thanks to the Internet, Allegro takes a public beating before
> > thousands.
> >
> > Hurting the value of your Allegro, Butch? Mike
>
> I am always amazed at how quick people are to take up someone's cause
> after hearing only one side of the story. Now it is quite possible that
> the Doctor is justified in wanting his coach replaced but before passing
> judgment, I would like to hear the other side of the story. I have
> never owned an Allegro but have known several who have and they were
> very satisfied with their coaches and the support they received from the
> manufacturer. Seems strange that Allegro would take a different
> position in this case.
>
> Don, retired in Tracy, Calif.

has tiffin issued a statement that the rest of us can see before we pass judgement. i for one would like to see both sides of the story

[afant...@gmail.com]

> vehicle. I feel for those who purchase their RVs in states that don't and are

[boneh...@gmail.com]

Hey Doc
First I assume the Bus was used as 150K would not buy a new one.
Second you must understand every time you drive that thing it's like your house in an earthquake, things happen.
3rd, the problems you describe are all vendor items not built by Tiffin. He just bolts all that stuff on a big box. They will take responsibility for the box but the bolt ons are the luck of the draw.
4th your story is mild compared to those I have heard in my travels including my own. My Tiffin is the best coach I have ever owned so I suggest you just get over it and get the repairs done.

[Owen McKenzie]

And last but not least, the original post was nearly 20 years old, so I
guess boneh...@gmail.com lives up to his name. :-)
--

Owen McKenzie

[kykt...@gmail.com]

I disagree with boneh...@gmail.com. if the dealer had specified that the RV was a piece of junk for a 150k the buyer or prospective buyer would leave it there. Assuming that the seller and the buyer ordealing in good faith there should be no problems whatsoever. If the manufacturer is known for his good customer service he should have been more than willing to accept the responsibility for the two faulty product or at least be good enough to notify his dealers to pull the defective Products off the market. Customer service over manufacturer and dealer profits.

[pattyloup]

We Bought a new 2023 Allegro Tiffin 34 ft and it seemed to be a pretty nice coach but after owning a 2015 Phaeton the quality was not the same. Anyway my husband drove the Allegro home about 20 miles and when he arrived home found the hydraulic fluid was leaking under the coach and down our driveway. That was the start of our nightmare. Steps that wouldn’t work right, windshield shade falling down, fan in galley not opening up, exhaust pipe in rear cut too short and exhaust going under the coach, slide outs not going out, central vacuum parts missing, and a rock guard that was torn up by the drivers from Alabama. I don’t think old guys die and leave their wifes with a big RV but old guys drop dead because of all the problems owning a motorhome cause them.
Now who is responsible for all these problems. Tiffin or the Mike Thompson RV?
It is now a month later and we still can’t go on a trip. The guy that repaired the hydralic leak, didn’t really fix it and started pouring out again. We still have not gotten the rest of the problems done because Tiffins send the part on a slow boat or it just seems that way.
We have owned at multiple campers when we were young and about six RV’s and it is still a love hate relationship for us. Would love to see some of the different parts of the USA because we have rambling fever. Just hope we get the dam thing fixed so we can travel a few years and then sell it later on.