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10 Things Conservatives Don’t Want You To Know About Ronald Reagan

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John Manning

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Feb 6, 2011, 11:38:15 AM2/6/11
to

The top 10 things conservatives avoid mentioning
when talking about President Reagan:


1. Reagan was a serial tax raiser.

As governor of California, Reagan “signed into law the largest
tax increase in the history of any state up till then.”
Meanwhile, state spending nearly doubled.

As president, Reagan “raised taxes in seven of his eight years
in office,” including four times in just two years.

As former GOP Senator Alan Simpson, who called Reagan “a dear
friend,” told NPR, “Ronald Reagan raised taxes 11 times in
his administration — I was there.”

“Reagan was never afraid to raise taxes,” said historian
Douglas Brinkley, who edited Reagan’s memoir. Reagan the
anti-tax zealot is “false mythology,” Brinkley said.


2. Reagan nearly tripled the federal budget deficit.

During the Reagan years, the debt increased to nearly
$3 trillion, “roughly three times as much as the first 80 years
of the century had done altogether.”

Reagan enacted a major tax cut his first year in office and
government revenue dropped off precipitously.

Despite the conservative myth that tax cuts somehow increase
revenue, the government went deeper into debt and Reagan had
to raise taxes just a year after he enacted his tax cut.

Despite ten more tax hikes on everything from gasoline to
corporate income, Reagan was never able to get the deficit
under control.


3. Unemployment soared after Reagan’s 1981 tax cuts.

Unemployment jumped to 10.8 percent after Reagan enacted
his much-touted tax cut, and it took years for the rate to get
back down to its previous level.

Meanwhile, income inequality exploded.

Despite the myth that Reagan presided over an era of unmatched
economic boom for all Americans, Reagan disproportionately taxed
the poor and middle class, but the economic growth of the 1980′s
did little help them.

“Since 1980, median household income has risen only 30
percent, adjusted for inflation, while average incomes at the top
have tripled or quadrupled,” the New York Times’ David Leonhardt
noted.


4. Reagan grew the size of the federal government tremendously.

Reagan promised “to move boldly, decisively, and quickly to control
the runaway growth of federal spending,” but federal
spending “ballooned” under Reagan.

He bailed out Social Security in 1983 after attempting to privatize
it, and set up a progressive taxation system to keep it funded into
the future.

He promised to cut government agencies like the Department of
Energy and Education but ended up adding one of the largest —
the Department of Veterans’ Affairs, which today has a budget of
nearly $90 billion and close to 300,000 employees.

He also hiked defense spending by over $100 billion a year to a
level not seen since the height of the Vietnam war.


5. Reagan did little to fight a woman’s right to choose.

As governor of California in 1967, Reagan signed a bill to
liberalize the state’s abortion laws that “resulted in more than
a million abortions.”

When Reagan ran for president, he advocated a constitutional
amendment that would have prohibited all abortions except
when necessary to save the life of the mother, but once in office,
he “never seriously pursued” curbing choice.


6. Reagan was a “bellicose peacenik.”

He wrote in his memoirs that “[m]y dream…became a world free of
nuclear weapons.” “This vision stemmed from the president’s belief
that the biblical account of Armageddon prophesied nuclear war —
and that apocalypse could be averted if everyone, especially the
Soviets, eliminated nuclear weapons,” the Washington Monthly noted.
And Reagan’s military buildup was meant to crush the Soviet Union,
but “also to put the United States in a stronger position from which
to establish effective arms control” for the the entire world —
a vision acted out by Regean’s vice president, George H.W. Bush,
when he became president.


7. Reagan gave amnesty to 3 million undocumented immigrants.

Reagan signed into law a bill that made any immigrant who had
entered the country before 1982 eligible for amnesty. The bill was
sold as a crackdown, but its tough sanctions on employers who
hired undocumented immigrants were removed before final passage.

The bill helped 3 million people and millions more family members
gain American residency. It has since become a source of
major embarrassment for conservatives.


8. Reagan illegally funneled weapons to Iran.

Reagan and other senior U.S. officials secretly sold arms to
officials in Iran, which was subject to a an arms embargo at the
time, in exchange for American hostages.

Some funds from the illegal arms sales also went to fund anti-
Communist rebels in Nicaragua — something Congress had
already prohibited the administration from doing.

When the deals went public, the Iran-Contra Affair, as it came to
be known, was an enormous political scandal that forced several
senior administration officials to resign.


9. Reagan vetoed a comprehensive anti-Apartheid act

...which placed sanctions on South Africa and cut off all
American trade with the country.

Reagan’s veto was overridden by the Republican-controlled Senate.

Reagan responded by saying “I deeply regret that Congress has seen
fit to override my veto,” saying that the law “will not solve
the serious problems that plague that country.”


10. Reagan helped create the Taliban and Osama Bin Laden.

Reagan fought a proxy war with the Soviet Union by training,
arming, equipping, and funding Islamist mujahidin fighters
in Afghanistan.

Reagan funneled billions of dollars, along with top-secret
intelligence and sophisticated weaponry to these fighters through
the Pakistani intelligence service.

The Talbian and Osama Bin Laden — a prominent mujahidin
commander — emerged from these mujahidin groups Reagan helped
create, and U.S. policy towards Pakistan remains strained because
of the intelligence services’ close relations to these fighters.

In fact, Reagan’s decision to continue the proxy war after the
Soviets were willing to retreat played a direct role in Bin
Laden’s ascendancy.

Links to sources here:
http://thinkprogress.org/2011/02/05/reagan-centennial/


Joe Bruno

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Feb 6, 2011, 11:47:29 AM2/6/11
to

Reagan is dead, idiot.He can't be President anymore.
Try and find something relevant to talk about, like the fact that
Obama is a lame duck for the rest of his term.

John Manning

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Feb 6, 2011, 11:59:34 AM2/6/11
to


Dumber than a sack of marbles.

You're just too stupid to know what the term 'lame duck'
actually means, Barney. You'll probably die stupid.


~~ Recent Polls Show Major Momentum For Obama ~~

"And for all the talk among some pundits
about Obama heading toward a one-and-done
presidency, his 50% approval rating at
the halfway mark of his term is better
than Bill Clinton's 47%, and much higher
than Reagan's 37%, according to Gallup.

"Obama is doing so well lately that,
despite the midterm shellacking and the
notion that it was a referendum on the
President, Americans would rather see the
country go in the direction Obama wants
than in the direction Congressional
Republicans want.

"An ABC/Washington Post poll found that
Americans wanted to see Obama rather than
Republicans take the lead by a 44% to 35%
split.

"That finding was supported by a PPP poll
in which 48% of respondents said they had
more faith in Obama to lead the nation,
versus 44% who said they were more confident
in Republicans."


-- Just two months ago, President Obama was reeling from his
party's massive defeat in the midterm elections. He faced a number
of critical legislative decisions, his approval numbers plummeted
to the lowest levels of his presidency, and pundits began
speculating whether he could survive a primary challenge in 2012.

Yet now, it seems like everything is coming up in Obama's favor.
Buoyed by a surging approval rating, an improved economic outlook,
and some popular legislative achievements, Obama is suddenly back
on top.

Obama closed out 2010 by signing a raft of popular bills -- including
a compromise to extend tax breaks for all Americans and a repeal
of "Don't Ask, Don't Tell."

Soon after, his record low approval numbers quickly changed course.
In late December, Gallup pegged his approval rating at 50%, the
first time he'd hit that threshold since May 2010.

Other polls showed him peaking even higher.

A CNN poll found the President with a 55% approval rating, his
highest mark in that poll since November 2009.

An NBC/Wall Street Journal survey had his approval slightly lower
at 53%, but you have to go back even further, to July 2009, to find
the previous time Obama's approval reached that mark in that poll.

Even Rasmussen's polls, which typically give the President his
lowest marks, showed him topping the 50% threshold this month--for
five straight days.

And for all the talk among some pundits about Obama heading toward
a one-and-done presidency, his 50% approval rating at the halfway
mark of his term is better than Bill Clinton's 47%, and much
higher than Reagan's 37%, according to Gallup.

Perhaps contributing to Obama's rising approval rating is
a simultaneous spike in Americans' confidence in the economy.

A CNN poll released this week found Americans more optimistic about
the economy than they had been in more than four years. A recent
Pew poll also found that fewer Americans were hearing "mostly
bad" economic news than at any time since early 2008 when Pew
began polling the question.

The President's response to the Tucson shooting may also have given
him a boost, especially as it was juxtaposed against the response of
a prominent political rival, Sarah Palin.

An ABC/Washington Post poll conducted after the attack found that
only 30% of Americans approved of Palin's response--in an online
video she struck a combative tone and accused her critics of
"blood libel" for linking her to the event.

Meanwhile, 78% of Americans thought Obama, who delivered an
emotional memorial speech in which he called for unity and
civility, had responded well to the tragedy.

Another bright spot for Obama in the new year is that support
for repealing his signature legislative accomplishment, the health
care overhaul, is finally ebbing.

Republicans seized on their midterm victory as proof that the
nation wanted them to repeal "Obamacare." Yet polls have
shown enthusiasm for repealing the law drying up since the
first provisions went into effect January 1.

Some polls this month have found that a plurality of Americans
actually want to keep the law, like a CBS survey in which 48%
of respondents said the law should remain in place, while only
about one in five wanted to see the whole thing thrown out.

What's more, both a Marist and an AP/GFK poll found that a plurality
of Americans even wanted to expand the law.

Obama is doing so well lately that, despite the midterm shellacking
and the notion that it was a referendum on the President,
Americans would rather see the country go in the direction Obama
wants than in the direction Congressional Republicans want.

An ABC/Washington Post poll found that Americans wanted to see
Obama rather than Republicans take the lead by a 44% to 35% split.

That finding was supported by a PPP poll in which 48% of
respondents said they had more faith in Obama to lead the
nation, versus 44% who said they were more confident in Republicans.

That PPP poll had other great news for the President, as it showed
him improving his lead on several frontrunners for the GOP
presidential nomination in hypothetical 2012 matchups. In
December, Obama led Mitt Romney by just one point nationally, though
he now leads by five points, 48% to 43%. His lead on Mike Huckabee
grew from three to five points over the same period, while he
pulled away from Palin to lead that contest by 17 points, 55% to 38%.

Given the President's recent good fortune, it looks like Christmas
came late for him. While the string of good news won't go on
unbroken, Obama is at least riding high as he begins the second half
of his first term.

Links:
http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2011/01/what-shellacking-recent-polls-show-major-momentum-for-obama.php


@tampabay.rr.com Pastor Dave

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Feb 6, 2011, 12:34:10 PM2/6/11
to
On Sun, 06 Feb 2011 14:38:15 -0200, John Manning <jrob...@terra.com.br>
spake thusly:


> The top 10 things conservatives avoid mentioning
> when talking about President Reagan:
>
> 1. Reagan was a serial tax raiser.
>

> 2. Reagan nearly tripled the federal budget deficit.
>

> 3. Unemployment soared after Reagan�s 1981 tax cuts.
>

> 4. Reagan grew the size of the federal government tremendously.
>

> 5. Reagan did little to fight a woman�s right to choose.
>

> 6. Reagan was a �bellicose peacenik.�


>
> 7. Reagan gave amnesty to 3 million undocumented immigrants.
>

> 8. Reagan illegally funneled weapons to Iran.
>

> 9. Reagan vetoed a comprehensive anti-Apartheid act
>

> 10. Reagan helped create the Taliban and Osama Bin Laden.

Whenever I see a list like this, I stop and ask if it is
something that this president did? Or something that
he is living with from the last president.

I.e., When a president puts a plan into action, it takes
maybe 4-8 years, before the effects of it are really felt
and may not even fully occur until the next president
is in office.

For example, take #2. Is it that Reagan nearly tripled
the federal budget deficit? Or is it that the federal
budget deficit tripled while he was in office?

Most people would ask; "What's the difference?" and
would do so in a snotty manner. But it makes a huge
difference! It makes all the difference!

If it was his policies that tripled the federal budget deficit
(which we would see most of the effects of when Bush
was in office), then okay, fine. It's his doing.

But if it is merely that the federal budget deficit tripled
while he was in office, then we have Carter to blame.

The same is true for democratic presidents too, of course.
I'm not coming down on democrats here. :)

The reality is that if we watch the things that are enacted
by presidents, we will see that sitting presidents tend to
get blamed for whatever happens while they're in office,
when they had nothing to do with it and it is the result
of what the last president did while in office.

The actions of presidents usually do not have instantaneous
results, but people don't tend to get that. Most folks simply
aren't too bright.

--

Pastor Dave

The best Bible software: http://www.theword.net/ is free!

"If the Bible is too old fashioned for Christians
then no one else can be expected to obey."
- Unknown

@tampabay.rr.com Pastor Dave

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Feb 6, 2011, 12:35:54 PM2/6/11
to
On Sun, 6 Feb 2011 08:47:29 -0800 (PST), Joe Bruno <ajt...@att.net>
spake thusly:


> Reagan is dead, idiot. He can't be President anymore.


> Try and find something relevant to talk about, like the
> fact that Obama is a lame duck for the rest of his term.

So just insult him for the rest of his term, just because? :)

--

Pastor Dave

The best Bible software: http://www.theword.net/ is free!

"I am not permitted to let my love be so merciful
as to tolerate and endure false doctrine. When
faith and doctrine are concerned and endangered,
neither love nor patience are in order... For
a defective life does not destroy Christendom,
but exercises it. However, defective doctrine
and false faith ruin everything. Therefore, when
these are concerned, neither toleration nor mercy
are in order, but only anger, dispute and
destruction - to be sure, only with the Word
of God as our weapon." - Martin Luther

John Manning

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Feb 6, 2011, 12:43:36 PM2/6/11
to
On 2/6/2011 3:34 PM, Pastor Dave wrote:
> On Sun, 06 Feb 2011 14:38:15 -0200, John Manning<jrob...@terra.com.br>
> spake thusly:
>
>
>> The top 10 things conservatives avoid mentioning
>> when talking about President Reagan:
>>
>> 1. Reagan was a serial tax raiser.
>>
>> 2. Reagan nearly tripled the federal budget deficit.
>>
>> 3. Unemployment soared after Reagan�s 1981 tax cuts.

>>
>> 4. Reagan grew the size of the federal government tremendously.
>>
>> 5. Reagan did little to fight a woman�s right to choose.
>>
>> 6. Reagan was a �bellicose peacenik.�

>>
>> 7. Reagan gave amnesty to 3 million undocumented immigrants.
>>
>> 8. Reagan illegally funneled weapons to Iran.
>>
>> 9. Reagan vetoed a comprehensive anti-Apartheid act
>>
>> 10. Reagan helped create the Taliban and Osama Bin Laden.
>
> Whenever I see a list like this, I stop and ask if it is
> something that this president did? Or something that
> he is living with from the last president.
>
> I.e., When a president puts a plan into action, it takes
> maybe 4-8 years, before the effects of it are really felt
> and may not even fully occur until the next president
> is in office.
>
> For example, take #2. Is it that Reagan nearly tripled
> the federal budget deficit? Or is it that the federal
> budget deficit tripled while he was in office?
>


Actually, it was both. It was his policy AND the results occurred
while he was in office.

@tampabay.rr.com Pastor Dave

unread,
Feb 6, 2011, 1:07:08 PM2/6/11
to
On Sun, 06 Feb 2011 15:43:36 -0200, John Manning <jrob...@terra.com.br>
spake thusly:


> Pastor Dave wrote:
>
>> John Manning spake thusly:


>>
>>> The top 10 things conservatives avoid mentioning
>>> when talking about President Reagan:
>>>
>>> 1. Reagan was a serial tax raiser.
>>>
>>> 2. Reagan nearly tripled the federal budget deficit.
>>>

>>> 3. Unemployment soared after Reagan’s 1981 tax cuts.


>>>
>>> 4. Reagan grew the size of the federal government tremendously.
>>>

>>> 5. Reagan did little to fight a woman’s right to choose.
>>>
>>> 6. Reagan was a “bellicose peacenik.”


>>>
>>> 7. Reagan gave amnesty to 3 million undocumented immigrants.
>>>
>>> 8. Reagan illegally funneled weapons to Iran.
>>>
>>> 9. Reagan vetoed a comprehensive anti-Apartheid act
>>>
>>> 10. Reagan helped create the Taliban and Osama Bin Laden.
>>
>> Whenever I see a list like this, I stop and ask if it is
>> something that this president did? Or something that
>> he is living with from the last president.
>>
>> I.e., When a president puts a plan into action, it takes
>> maybe 4-8 years, before the effects of it are really felt
>> and may not even fully occur until the next president
>> is in office.
>>
>> For example, take #2. Is it that Reagan nearly tripled
>> the federal budget deficit? Or is it that the federal
>> budget deficit tripled while he was in office?
>>

>> Most people would ask; "What's the difference?" and
>> would do so in a snotty manner. But it makes a huge
>> difference! It makes all the difference!
>>
>> If it was his policies that tripled the federal budget deficit
>> (which we would see most of the effects of when Bush
>> was in office), then okay, fine. It's his doing.
>>
>> But if it is merely that the federal budget deficit tripled
>> while he was in office, then we have Carter to blame.
>
> Actually, it was both. It was his policy AND the results
> occurred while he was in office.

That would have to be proved, because that would be
extremely rare! It just hardly ever happens that what
a president does while in office, we see the full effects
of while he's still in office, when it is something so large
as a policy that can triple the federal budget deficit.

--

Pastor Dave

The best Bible software: http://www.theword.net/ is free!

"A text without a context becomes a proof-text
for a pre-text" - Carson

John Manning

unread,
Feb 6, 2011, 1:19:23 PM2/6/11
to
On 2/6/2011 4:07 PM, Pastor Dave wrote:
> On Sun, 06 Feb 2011 15:43:36 -0200, John Manning<jrob...@terra.com.br>
> spake thusly:
>
>
>> Pastor Dave wrote:
>>
>>> John Manning spake thusly:
>>>
>>>> The top 10 things conservatives avoid mentioning
>>>> when talking about President Reagan:
>>>>
>>>> 1. Reagan was a serial tax raiser.
>>>>
>>>> 2. Reagan nearly tripled the federal budget deficit.
>>>>
>>>> 3. Unemployment soared after Reagan�s 1981 tax cuts.

>>>>
>>>> 4. Reagan grew the size of the federal government tremendously.
>>>>
>>>> 5. Reagan did little to fight a woman�s right to choose.
>>>>
>>>> 6. Reagan was a �bellicose peacenik.�

In 1981, Reagan significantly reduced the maximum tax rate,
which affected the highest income earners, and lowered the
top marginal tax rate from 70% to 50%; in 1986 he further
reduced the rate to 28%.[15]

As a result of all this, the budget deficit and federal
debt increased considerably: debt grew from 33.3% of GDP
in 1980 to 51.9% at the end of 1988 [16] and the deficit
increased from 2.7% in 1980 to more than double in 1983,
when it reached 6%; in 1984, 1985 and 1986 it was around 5%.[17]

In order to cover new federal budget deficits, the United
States borrowed heavily both domestically and abroad, raising
the national debt from $997 billion to $2.85 trillion,[18] and
the United States moved from being the world's largest
international creditor to the world's largest debtor nation.[19]

Reagan described the new debt as the "greatest disappointment" of
his presidency.[20]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reaganomics#Economic_record

Andre Lieven

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Feb 6, 2011, 1:24:52 PM2/6/11
to
On Feb 6, 1:07 pm, Pastor Dave <newsgroup-mail @ tampabay.rr.com>
wrote:
> On Sun, 06 Feb 2011 15:43:36 -0200, John Manning <jrobe...@terra.com.br>

The tax cuts were all his, and so were the budgets post 1981.

Andre

Free Lunch

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Feb 6, 2011, 1:46:58 PM2/6/11
to
On Sun, 06 Feb 2011 13:07:08 -0500, Pastor Dave <newsgroup-mail @
tampabay.rr.com> wrote in alt.atheism:

No, we do not. The tax cuts and huge deficits came at the beginning of
Reagan's years.


>>
>> Actually, it was both. It was his policy AND the results
>> occurred while he was in office.
>
>That would have to be proved, because that would be
>extremely rare! It just hardly ever happens that what
>a president does while in office, we see the full effects
>of while he's still in office, when it is something so large
>as a policy that can triple the federal budget deficit.

Cutting taxes increases the deficit if you don't cut spending. Reagan
intentionally ran huge deficits.

Jim Austin

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Feb 6, 2011, 1:53:08 PM2/6/11
to
On Feb 6, 8:38 am, John Manning <jrobe...@terra.com.br> wrote:
> The top 10 things conservatives avoid mentioning
> when talking about President Reagan:
>
>      1. Reagan was a serial tax raiser.
>
> As governor of California, Reagan “signed into law the largest
> tax increase in the history of any state up till then.”
> Meanwhile, state spending nearly doubled.

The previous Democratic Governor Pat Brown balanced his last year's
budget with a year-and-a-half revenue, much of which extended into
Reagan's first year. The Democratic controlled state Legislature
resisted all attempts by Governor Reagan to cut spending.

> As president, Reagan “raised taxes in seven of his eight years
> in office,” including four times in just two years.
>
> As former GOP Senator Alan Simpson, who called Reagan “a dear
> friend,” told NPR, “Ronald Reagan raised taxes 11 times in
> his administration — I was there.”
>
> “Reagan was never afraid to raise taxes,” said historian
> Douglas Brinkley, who edited Reagan’s memoir. Reagan the
> anti-tax zealot is “false mythology,” Brinkley said.

Much of the tax increases which were scheduled to occur during
Reagan's term was enacted during the Carter years, particularly the
Social Security tax hikes. While the Republicans took the Senate in
the 1980 election, the Democrats continued to control the House.
Reagan's first year's budget was actually lower than the previous
year's, since there were enough conservative Democrats to give
Republican control of the House floor. However, in 1982, the Democrats
picked up more seats, giving them the ability to force increases in
government taxes and spending.

>      2. Reagan nearly tripled the federal budget deficit.
>
> During the Reagan years, the debt increased to nearly
> $3 trillion, “roughly three times as much as the first 80 years
> of the century had done altogether.”

Democratic resistance to spending cuts tend to result in greater
deficits.

> Reagan enacted a major tax cut his first year in office and
> government revenue dropped off precipitously.

Tax revenues tend to drop during recessions, whatever the tax rates.

Notice liberals tend to complain when Reagan raised taxes and when
Reagan cuts taxes.

> Despite the conservative myth that tax cuts somehow increase
> revenue, the government went deeper into debt and Reagan had
> to raise taxes just a year after he enacted his tax cut.

Reagan reached an agreement with Democrats to raise taxes in exchange
for cuts in spending. The taxes were raised, but the the spending cuts
never materialized. Democratic bad faith increased Reagan's resistance
to more tax hikes.

> Despite ten more tax hikes on everything from gasoline to
> corporate income, Reagan was never able to get the deficit
> under control.

Because Democrats resisted every effort to get federal spending under
control.

>      3. Unemployment soared after Reagan’s 1981 tax cuts.
>
> Unemployment jumped to 10.8 percent after Reagan enacted
> his much-touted tax cut, and it took years for the rate to get
> back down to its previous level.

Unfortunately, there was a double-dip recession during that time.

> Meanwhile, income inequality exploded.
>
> Despite the myth that Reagan presided over an era of unmatched
> economic boom for all Americans, Reagan disproportionately taxed
> the poor and middle class, but the economic growth of the 1980′s
> did little help them.

Unfortunately, the the deficits eating up capital needed to further
economic growth, he unfortunately ended up substituting a cheap money
boom for actual economic growth.

> “Since 1980, median household income has risen only 30
> percent, adjusted for inflation, while average incomes at the top
> have tripled or quadrupled,” the New York Times’ David Leonhardt
> noted.

So?

>      4. Reagan grew the size of the federal government tremendously.
>
> Reagan promised “to move boldly, decisively, and quickly to control
> the runaway growth of federal spending,” but federal
> spending “ballooned” under Reagan.
>
> He bailed out Social Security in 1983 after attempting to privatize
> it, and set up a progressive taxation system to keep it funded into
> the future.

The Social Security tax that went into effect in 1983 was enacted
during Carter's presidency.

> He promised to cut government agencies like the Department of
> Energy and Education but ended up adding one of the largest —
> the Department of Veterans’ Affairs, which today has a budget of
> nearly $90 billion and close to 300,000 employees.

Efforts to cut government agencies were opposed by Democrats in
Congress.

> He also hiked defense spending by over $100 billion a year to a
> level not seen since the height of the Vietnam war.

Liberals always complained that Reagan was not a unilateral disarmer.

>      5. Reagan did little to fight a woman’s right to choose.
>
> As governor of California in 1967, Reagan signed a bill to
> liberalize the state’s abortion laws that “resulted in more than
> a million abortions.”

He signed a law that allowed abortion in case of rape, incest or
danger to the mother's health.

> When Reagan ran for president, he advocated a constitutional
> amendment that would have prohibited all abortions except
> when necessary to save the life of the mother, but once in office,
> he “never seriously pursued” curbing choice.

True, fortunately.

>      6. Reagan was a “bellicose peacenik.”
>
> He wrote in his memoirs that “[m]y dream…became a world free of
> nuclear weapons.” “This vision stemmed from the president’s belief
> that the biblical account of Armageddon prophesied nuclear war —
> and that apocalypse could be averted if everyone, especially the
> Soviets, eliminated nuclear weapons,” the Washington Monthly noted.
> And Reagan’s military buildup was meant to crush the Soviet Union,
> but “also to put the United States in a stronger position from which
> to establish effective arms control” for the the entire world —
> a vision acted out by Regean’s vice president, George H.W. Bush,
> when he became president.

Reagan was never a unilateral disarmer. He did not follow the liberal
position of allowing the Soviets to dictate the terms of any
disarmament agreement.

>      7. Reagan gave amnesty to 3 million undocumented immigrants.
>
> Reagan signed into law a bill that made any immigrant who had
> entered the country before 1982 eligible for amnesty. The bill was
> sold as a crackdown, but its tough sanctions on employers who
> hired undocumented immigrants were removed before final passage.

Alas, true.

> The bill helped 3 million people and millions more family members
> gain American residency. It has since become a source of
> major embarrassment for conservatives.

Bummer.

>      8. Reagan illegally funneled weapons to Iran.
>
> Reagan and other senior U.S. officials secretly sold arms to
> officials in Iran, which was subject to a an arms embargo at the
> time, in exchange for American hostages.

The Reagan administration supported both sides during the Iran-Iraq
war, using it as an opportunity to weaken two aggressor nations.
Liberals at the time, as they always do, opposed anything that would
inconvenience an aggressor.

> Some funds from the illegal arms sales also went to fund anti-
> Communist rebels in Nicaragua — something Congress had
> already prohibited the administration from doing.

The Democrats sided with the communist rebels in Nicaragua. Big
surprise there.

> When the deals went public, the Iran-Contra Affair, as it came to
> be known, was an enormous political scandal that forced several
> senior administration officials to resign.

The televised testimony of LTC Oliver North tended to sway the U.S.
public in favor of Reagan's policies, as the polls showed at the time.

>      9. Reagan vetoed a comprehensive anti-Apartheid act
>
> ...which placed sanctions on South Africa and cut off all
> American trade with the country.

In the context of the Cold War, the weakening of South Africa would
allow the ocean around the Horn of Africa to fall under the control of
Soviet or other unfriendly powers. Leftist campaign against South
Africa was general part of their overall goal of strengthening Soviet
bloc nations.

> Reagan’s veto was overridden by the Republican-controlled Senate.

Certain moderate Republicans and RINOs to tend to go chicken in the
face of media attack.

> Reagan responded by saying “I deeply regret that Congress has seen
> fit to override my veto,” saying that the law “will not solve
> the serious problems that plague that country.”

It didn't.

>      10. Reagan helped create the Taliban and Osama Bin Laden.
>
> Reagan fought a proxy war with the Soviet Union by training,
> arming, equipping, and funding Islamist mujahidin fighters
> in Afghanistan.

Reagan supported Afghan resistance against the Soviet invasion of
Afghanistan. Liberals opposed it because of their overall position of
not inconveniencing aggressors.

Notice the phrasing calculated to obscure the fact that the Soviets
attacked Afghanistan.

> Reagan funneled billions of dollars, along with top-secret
> intelligence and sophisticated weaponry to these fighters through
> the Pakistani intelligence service.

Reagan supported the Mujahadeen, which was a coalition of various
factions and groups united against Soviet invaders.

> The Talbian and Osama Bin Laden — a prominent mujahidin
> commander — emerged from these mujahidin groups Reagan helped
> create, and U.S. policy towards Pakistan remains strained because
> of the intelligence services’ close relations to these fighters.

Individuals who later formed the Taliban were just one of the factions
in the Mujahadeen.

> In fact, Reagan’s decision to continue the proxy war after the
> Soviets were willing to retreat played a direct role in Bin
> Laden’s ascendancy.

Reagan continued his support of the Afghan resistance until the
Soviets actually left the country.

A leftist website.

John Manning

unread,
Feb 6, 2011, 2:15:37 PM2/6/11
to


Like the ongoing GOP Reagan worship, this sums up your post, Mr Austin:
http://mariopiperni.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/Reagan_Ronald_Saint.jpg

Here are some reminders about the Reagan administration from
George Carlin that St Ronnie wingnuts conveniently forget -
Watch: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hsBfqrNoFXQ

Mitchell Holman

unread,
Feb 6, 2011, 3:13:51 PM2/6/11
to
Jim Austin <b...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in
news:1bbc03cf-1c67-46b6...@s29g2000pra.googlegroups.com:

> On Feb 6, 8:38 am, John Manning <jrobe...@terra.com.br> wrote:
>> The top 10 things conservatives avoid mentioning
>> when talking about President Reagan:
>>

>> During the Reagan years, the debt increased to nearly
>> $3 trillion, “roughly three times as much as the first 80 years
>> of the century had done altogether.”
>
> Democratic resistance to spending cuts tend to result in greater
> deficits.


Only one president has submitted budget bills to
congress that reduced the deficit every year he was
in office.

Bill Clinton.


>
>> Reagan enacted a major tax cut his first year in office and
>> government revenue dropped off precipitously.
>
> Tax revenues tend to drop during recessions, whatever the tax rates.
>
> Notice liberals tend to complain when Reagan raised taxes and when
> Reagan cuts taxes.


Notice conservatives complain about deficit spending,
but only under a Democratic president. Under Republican
presidents deficits don't matter.


"Deficits don't matter"
Dick Cheney, Jan 11, 2004
http://tinyurl.com/yq8pnn


>
>> Despite the conservative myth that tax cuts somehow increase
>> revenue, the government went deeper into debt and Reagan had
>> to raise taxes just a year after he enacted his tax cut.
>
> Reagan reached an agreement with Democrats to raise taxes in exchange
> for cuts in spending. The taxes were raised, but the the spending cuts
> never materialized. Democratic bad faith increased Reagan's resistance
> to more tax hikes.


All spending bills can be vetoed by the president.
If he signed them, he approved them.


>> He promised to cut government agencies like the Department of
>> Energy and Education but ended up adding one of the largest —
>> the Department of Veterans’ Affairs, which today has a budget of
>> nearly $90 billion and close to 300,000 employees.
>
> Efforts to cut government agencies were opposed by Democrats in
> Congress.
>

The Republicans controlled the Senate for all but
2 of Reagans 8 years in office.


>
>> The bill helped 3 million people and millions more family members
>> gain American residency. It has since become a source of
>> major embarrassment for conservatives.
>
> Bummer.
>
>>      8. Reagan illegally funneled weapons to Iran.
>>
>> Reagan and other senior U.S. officials secretly sold arms to
>> officials in Iran, which was subject to a an arms embargo at the
>> time, in exchange for American hostages.
>
> The Reagan administration supported both sides during the Iran-Iraq
> war, using it as an opportunity to weaken two aggressor nations.
> Liberals at the time, as they always do, opposed anything that would
> inconvenience an aggressor.


If that was such a good policy why did he lie about it?


"A few months ago I told the American people I did not
trade arms for hostages. My heart and my best intentions
still tell me that's true, but the facts and the evidence
tell me it is not."
Ronald Reagan, Address to the Nation, Jan 1987

>> Some funds from the illegal arms sales also went to fund anti-
>> Communist rebels in Nicaragua — something Congress had
>> already prohibited the administration from doing.
>
> The Democrats sided with the communist rebels in Nicaragua. Big
> surprise there.


The ELECTED communist government. Reagan wanted a
return to Somoza dictatorship. Why did Reagan support
(the Kirkpatrick Doctrine) so many dictators?


>
> In the context of the Cold War, the weakening of South Africa would
> allow the ocean around the Horn of Africa to fall under the control of
> Soviet or other unfriendly powers. Leftist campaign against South
> Africa was general part of their overall goal of strengthening Soviet
> bloc nations.
>
>> Reagan’s veto was overridden by the Republican-controlled Senate.
>
> Certain moderate Republicans and RINOs to tend to go chicken in the
> face of media attack.
>
>> Reagan responded by saying “I deeply regret that Congress has see
> n
>> fit to override my veto,” saying that the law “will not s
> olve
>> the serious problems that plague that country.”
>
> It didn't.
>
>>      10. Reagan helped create the Taliban and Osama Bin La
> den.
>>
>> Reagan fought a proxy war with the Soviet Union by training,
>> arming, equipping, and funding Islamist mujahidin fighters
>> in Afghanistan.


And thus creating the Taliban government there.


>
> Reagan supported Afghan resistance against the Soviet invasion of
> Afghanistan. Liberals opposed it because of their overall position of
> not inconveniencing aggressors.
>
> Notice the phrasing calculated to obscure the fact that the Soviets
> attacked Afghanistan.

"attacked"?

Does that mean Bush "attacked" Afghanistan?


>
>> Reagan funneled billions of dollars, along with top-secret
>> intelligence and sophisticated weaponry to these fighters through
>> the Pakistani intelligence service.
>
> Reagan supported the Mujahadeen, which was a coalition of various
> factions and groups united against Soviet invaders.


....and whose desire it was to create an Islamic state.

@tampabay.rr.com Pastor Dave

unread,
Feb 6, 2011, 6:43:44 PM2/6/11
to
On Sun, 06 Feb 2011 16:19:23 -0200, John Manning <jrob...@terra.com.br>
spake thusly:


>On 2/6/2011 4:07 PM, Pastor Dave wrote:
>> On Sun, 06 Feb 2011 15:43:36 -0200, John Manning<jrob...@terra.com.br>
>> spake thusly:
>>
>>
>>> Pastor Dave wrote:
>>>
>>>> John Manning spake thusly:
>>>>
>>>>> The top 10 things conservatives avoid mentioning
>>>>> when talking about President Reagan:
>>>>>
>>>>> 1. Reagan was a serial tax raiser.
>>>>>
>>>>> 2. Reagan nearly tripled the federal budget deficit.
>>>>>

>>>>> 3. Unemployment soared after Reagan�s 1981 tax cuts.


>>>>>
>>>>> 4. Reagan grew the size of the federal government tremendously.
>>>>>

>>>>> 5. Reagan did little to fight a woman�s right to choose.
>>>>>
>>>>> 6. Reagan was a �bellicose peacenik.�

I won't argue back and forth about this and I'm not
saying these conclusions are wrong, but conclusions
if what they are, not proof. I.e., they're claims.

For example, it is the writer of the Wikipedia page
that is making the claims and I don't know why
people quote from Wikipedia in the first place,
as if it is some kind of place that one finds some
irrefutable facts that cannot be disputed.

The Internet generation has intentionally dumbed
themselves down. I say intentionally, because they
have stopped checking on anything. They just
accept whatever the web says and then hypocritically
claim to know that the Web is a place of lots of
misinformation.

There is a thing within research, called "checking sources".
You Internet people don't even bother doing that! Nor
do you understand that looking it up on the web does
not qualify as checking one's sources, nor should the Web
even be considered to be a valid source!

I hardly ever take anything on the web as research!
I do my research the old fashion way! That is valid!
So if I decided to research this issue, I'd get off my
ass and go to a library and I would write to the
appropriate people in the White House, as well as
the IRS. Yes, I would do that! That is real research!

FYI, Wikipedia is a web site that is put up and edited
by the readers! Wikipedia pages are not put up by
some infallible source! Some user who wanted to
add a page, did so! And so you know, anyone can
go to a Wikipedia page and change the information!
I can go there right now and say that Carter did it!

"But the reference material is right there!", you say.

Click on it. Where does it say "Reagan did it!".
His name isn't even on that reference page!

"But the years are right!", you say.

Just a quick scan shows me that it doesn't say that
this policy was Reagan's doing and the whole point
of my response was that what we're seeing in a
given point in time, may be the doing of the last
president and nothing on that page says that it
was the current president who set that wheel
in motion! Nor does that page say "28%".

So the point I'm making, is that the person who
wrote this stuff for the Wikipedia page, has stated
their conclusions and has not proved a thing,
nor have you by quoting him! There is nothing
there on the reference page that he cites, that
says who created the policy and on the Wikipedia
page all we have is his say so that Reagan did it,
when in fact, he, like almost everyone else out
there, may not realize that what we see happen
during a presidents time in office, is usually from
policies that were enacted by the last president!

And you... you just happily quoted it all, as if
this man's conclusions were God given Gospel!

All you really gave me, was somebody's conclusions.

But like I said... I am not saying he is wrong.

I am only saying that proof is not what you,
nor he provided.

--

Pastor Dave

The best Bible software: http://www.theword.net/ is free!

"Man is still the most extraordinary computer of all."
- John Fitzgerald Kennedy

@tampabay.rr.com Pastor Dave

unread,
Feb 6, 2011, 6:45:01 PM2/6/11
to
On Sun, 6 Feb 2011 10:24:52 -0800 (PST), Andre Lieven
<andre...@yahoo.ca> spake thusly:

Maybe so, but that is a claim, not proof.

Why would you think that what you just posted
would somehow be the definitive ending to the
issue for everyone?

God is real and Christ lives!

There! Now everyone believes, right? :)

--

Pastor Dave

The best Bible software: http://www.theword.net/ is free!

When Christianity becomes religion it leaves the heart hungry.

John Manning

unread,
Feb 6, 2011, 7:05:17 PM2/6/11
to
On 2/6/2011 9:43 PM, Pastor Dave wrote:
> On Sun, 06 Feb 2011 16:19:23 -0200, John Manning<jrob...@terra.com.br>
> spake thusly:
>
>
>> On 2/6/2011 4:07 PM, Pastor Dave wrote:
>>> On Sun, 06 Feb 2011 15:43:36 -0200, John Manning<jrob...@terra.com.br>
>>> spake thusly:
>>>
>>>
>>>> Pastor Dave wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> John Manning spake thusly:
>>>>>
>>>>>> The top 10 things conservatives avoid mentioning
>>>>>> when talking about President Reagan:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 1. Reagan was a serial tax raiser.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 2. Reagan nearly tripled the federal budget deficit.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 3. Unemployment soared after Reagan�s 1981 tax cuts.

>>>>>>
>>>>>> 4. Reagan grew the size of the federal government tremendously.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 5. Reagan did little to fight a woman�s right to choose.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 6. Reagan was a �bellicose peacenik.�


No, actually Wikipedia content is sourced with documentation. In the
piece I posted, the sources cited are:


From the content:

In 1981, Reagan significantly reduced the maximum tax rate, which
affected the highest income earners, and lowered the top marginal tax
rate from 70% to 50%; in 1986 he further reduced the rate to 28%.[15]

~~Source:
15 "Effective Federal Tax Rates: 1979-2001". Bureau of Economic
Analysis. July 10, 2007.
http://www.cbo.gov/ftpdoc.cfm?index=5324&type=0&sequence=0.


From the content:

As a result of all this, the budget deficit and federal debt increased
considerably: debt grew from 33.3% of GDP in 1980 to 51.9% at the end of
1988 [16]

~~Source:
16 Historical tables, Budget of the United States Government, 2006,
table 7.1.


From the content:

...and the deficit increased from 2.7% in 1980 to more than double in

1983, when it reached 6%; in 1984, 1985 and 1986 it was around 5%.[17]

~~Source:
17 Historical tables, Budget of the United States Government, 2006,
table 1.2.


From the content:

In order to cover new federal budget deficits, the United States
borrowed heavily both domestically and abroad, raising the national debt
from $997 billion to $2.85 trillion,[18]

~~Source:
18 "Historical Debt Outstanding". U.S. Treasury Department.
http://www.treasurydirect.gov/govt/reports/pd/histdebt/histdebt_histo4.htm.
Retrieved 8 September 2010.


From the content:

...and the United States moved from being the world's largest

international creditor to the world's largest debtor nation.[19]

~~Source:
19 "Reagan Policies Gave Green Light to Red Ink". The Washington Post.
2004-06-09.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A26402-2004Jun8.html.
Retrieved 2007-05-25.


From the content:

Reagan described the new debt as the "greatest disappointment" of his
presidency.[20]

Source:
20 Cannon, Lou (2001) p. 128


and I don't know why
> people quote from Wikipedia in the first place,
> as if it is some kind of place that one finds some
> irrefutable facts that cannot be disputed.
>


Maybe because its content is actually based on sourced documentation, eh?


> The Internet generation has intentionally dumbed
> themselves down. I say intentionally, because they
> have stopped checking on anything. They just
> accept whatever the web says and then hypocritically
> claim to know that the Web is a place of lots of
> misinformation.
>
> There is a thing within research, called "checking sources".


See above.


> You Internet people don't even bother doing that! Nor
> do you understand that looking it up on the web does
> not qualify as checking one's sources, nor should the Web
> even be considered to be a valid source!
>
> I hardly ever take anything on the web as research!
> I do my research the old fashion way! That is valid!
> So if I decided to research this issue, I'd get off my
> ass and go to a library and I would write to the
> appropriate people in the White House, as well as
> the IRS. Yes, I would do that! That is real research!
>


Then get off your ass and find something that refutes the sources cited.


At this point you've gone off into a babbling mode, Pastor Dan.


Doc Smartass

unread,
Feb 6, 2011, 7:19:09 PM2/6/11
to
Joe Bruno <ajt...@att.net> wrote in
news:4b92cc87-685f-406f...@o32g2000prb.googlegroups.com:

> Reagan is dead, idiot.He can't be President anymore.
> Try and find something relevant to talk about, like the fact that
> Obama is a lame duck for the rest of his term.

Sorry, little pup, but Obama's got plenty of power. Anything the House
Teabaggers try to pass, he can veto.

Works for me.

--
Doc Smartass, BAAWA Knight of Aimin' to Misbehave aa # 1939

Kooks! http://kookclearinghouse.blogspot.com/

Books! http://jw-bookblog.blogspot.com/

A Christian has to be Adolf Hitler to be called militant.
All an atheist has to do is write a book. -- Tommy Holland

@tampabay.rr.com Pastor Dave

unread,
Feb 6, 2011, 9:30:08 PM2/6/11
to
On Sun, 06 Feb 2011 22:05:17 -0200, John Manning <jrob...@terra.com.br>
spake thusly:


>On 2/6/2011 9:43 PM, Pastor Dave wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 06 Feb 2011 16:19:23 -0200, John Manning<jrob...@terra.com.br>
>> spake thusly:
>>
>>
>>> On 2/6/2011 4:07 PM, Pastor Dave wrote:
>>>> On Sun, 06 Feb 2011 15:43:36 -0200, John Manning<jrob...@terra.com.br>
>>>> spake thusly:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Pastor Dave wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> John Manning spake thusly:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The top 10 things conservatives avoid mentioning
>>>>>>> when talking about President Reagan:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 1. Reagan was a serial tax raiser.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 2. Reagan nearly tripled the federal budget deficit.
>>>>>>>

>>>>>>> 3. Unemployment soared after Reagan’s 1981 tax cuts.


>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 4. Reagan grew the size of the federal government tremendously.
>>>>>>>

>>>>>>> 5. Reagan did little to fight a woman’s right to choose.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 6. Reagan was a “bellicose peacenik.”

Is there some reason that you get upset about more
than some guy's opinion being required as a source?

I guess so! And that's especially funny, considering
that I never said that it was right or wrong and why
would I care about refuting the sources, when I do
not care about the issue in the first place and made
that quite clear to you?

You're just another usenet warmonger. You don't
want to have a discussion. You want someone to
fight with, or usenet is useless to you.

A man with integrity and intelligence, would have
been grateful for a lift up in his methods.


>At this point you've gone off into a babbling mode, Pastor Dan.

I know that to those who seek war, reason is "babbling".

You're in my kill file as of now. Now you go ahead and
you stress out because I won't fight with you and won't
see your response that you think is sent from God Himself
and is really you trying to vent your ranting at me, as we
both know you will do and will deny doing and I'll go laugh
at the thought of you making that noise you're making out
of frustration and responding to me even though I told you
that I won't see it. :)

--

Pastor Dave

The best Bible software: http://www.theword.net/ is free!

"It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool,
than to open one's mouth and remove all doubt."
- Abraham Lincoln

John Manning

unread,
Feb 7, 2011, 9:44:36 AM2/7/11
to
On 2/7/2011 12:30 AM, Pastor Dave wrote:
> On Sun, 06 Feb 2011 22:05:17 -0200, John Manning<jrob...@terra.com.br>
> spake thusly:
>
>
>> On 2/6/2011 9:43 PM, Pastor Dave wrote:
>>
>>> On Sun, 06 Feb 2011 16:19:23 -0200, John Manning<jrob...@terra.com.br>
>>> spake thusly:
>>>
>>>
>>>> On 2/6/2011 4:07 PM, Pastor Dave wrote:
>>>>> On Sun, 06 Feb 2011 15:43:36 -0200, John Manning<jrob...@terra.com.br>
>>>>> spake thusly:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Pastor Dave wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> John Manning spake thusly:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The top 10 things conservatives avoid mentioning
>>>>>>>> when talking about President Reagan:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 1. Reagan was a serial tax raiser.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 2. Reagan nearly tripled the federal budget deficit.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 3. Unemployment soared after Reagan�s 1981 tax cuts.

>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 4. Reagan grew the size of the federal government tremendously.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 5. Reagan did little to fight a woman�s right to choose.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 6. Reagan was a �bellicose peacenik.�


Like I said, you're babbling.

Another True Believer desperately performs an extensive tap
dance routine to avoid facing the painfully glaring obvious
truth when the purity of his object of worship is exposed
with objective factual reality to be *way less* than he
'Truly Believed'.


Don Martin

unread,
Feb 7, 2011, 10:48:04 AM2/7/11
to
On Feb 7, 9:44 am, John Manning <jrobe...@terra.com.br> wrote:

[usual crap from 'pastor dave' snipped]

> Like I said, you're babbling.
>
> Another True Believer desperately performs an extensive tap
> dance routine to avoid facing the painfully glaring obvious
> truth when the purity of his object of worship is exposed
> with objective factual reality to be *way less* than he
> 'Truly Believed'.

Here is a cartoon the readers might find informative about our second-
worst president (and Harding thought his reputation was secure!)

http://hungryblues.net/2004/06/11/remembering-reagan/

John Manning

unread,
Feb 7, 2011, 11:00:30 AM2/7/11
to


Excellent cartoon.

Jude Alexander

unread,
Feb 7, 2011, 1:53:58 PM2/7/11
to
John Manning wrote:
>> The top 10 things conservatives avoid mentioning
>> when talking about President Reagan:
>>


Reagan did a good acting job... :)


Joe Bruno

unread,
Feb 7, 2011, 2:32:00 PM2/7/11
to
On Feb 6, 9:35 am, Pastor Dave <newsgroup-mail @ tampabay.rr.com>
wrote:
> On Sun, 6 Feb 2011 08:47:29 -0800 (PST), Joe Bruno <ajta...@att.net>

> spake thusly:
>
> > Reagan is dead, idiot.  He can't be President anymore.
> > Try and find something relevant to talk about, like the
> > fact that Obama is a lame duck for the rest of his term.
>
> So just insult him for the rest of his term, just because? :)
>
> --
The lame duck thing is a matter of fact.
According to the Constitution, all appropriations must begin in the
House of Representatives, which will have a GOP majority for at least
the next two years.Most GOP House members that I know are
eager to reverse some of Obama's little projects.

CV

unread,
Feb 7, 2011, 2:44:08 PM2/7/11
to

Sounds more like a lame House majority to me, Barney.

Nothing from the House becomes law unless it's also
passed by the Senate. Plus, Obama can veto anything
that gets by the Senate. The Repugs don't have the
votes to overcome a presidential veto.


John Baker

unread,
Feb 7, 2011, 3:20:47 PM2/7/11
to
On Sun, 06 Feb 2011 16:19:23 -0200, John Manning
<jrob...@terra.com.br> wrote:

>On 2/6/2011 4:07 PM, Pastor Dave wrote:
>> On Sun, 06 Feb 2011 15:43:36 -0200, John Manning<jrob...@terra.com.br>
>> spake thusly:
>>
>>
>>> Pastor Dave wrote:
>>>
>>>> John Manning spake thusly:
>>>>
>>>>> The top 10 things conservatives avoid mentioning
>>>>> when talking about President Reagan:
>>>>>
>>>>> 1. Reagan was a serial tax raiser.
>>>>>
>>>>> 2. Reagan nearly tripled the federal budget deficit.
>>>>>

>>>>> 3. Unemployment soared after Reagan’s 1981 tax cuts.


>>>>>
>>>>> 4. Reagan grew the size of the federal government tremendously.
>>>>>

>>>>> 5. Reagan did little to fight a woman’s right to choose.
>>>>>
>>>>> 6. Reagan was a “bellicose peacenik.”

Politicians just can't seem to get a handle on the concept that when
you reduce revenue, you must also reduce spending.

thomas p.

unread,
Feb 7, 2011, 3:46:15 PM2/7/11
to
"Jude Alexander" <Ca...@swampland.net> skrev i meddelelsen
news:iipf47$b40$1...@news.eternal-september.org...


Maybe, but I always thought Rin Tin Tin had more range.


Apostate

unread,
Feb 7, 2011, 6:01:30 PM2/7/11
to

Whenever he was playing ham.


--
Apostate alt.atheist #1931 I've found it!
BAAWA Knife AND SMASHer freelance Minion #'e'
EAC Deputy Director in Charge of Getting Paid,
Department of Redundancy Department

"The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure
and the intelligent are full of doubt." -- Bertrand Russell

"Mr. Worf, set phasers on "Fuck You" and fire at will."
-- Doc Smartass

"Nature has a dark sense of humor, but life is certainly
one of the things it laughs at."
-- Rinaldo of Capadoccia


e-mail to %mynick%periodaaperiod%myAA#%@gee!mail!dottedcommie

Jude Alexander

unread,
Feb 7, 2011, 7:07:56 PM2/7/11
to

LOL arf arf


Ed Debevic

unread,
Sep 16, 2022, 2:12:03 PM9/16/22
to
On Sun, 06 Feb 2011 14:38:15 -0200, John Manning
<jrob...@terra.com.br> wrote:

>
>
>The top 10 things conservatives avoid mentioning
>when talking about President Reagan:
>
>
> 1. Reagan was a serial tax raiser.
>
>As governor of California, Reagan “signed into law the largest
>tax increase in the history of any state up till then.”
>Meanwhile, state spending nearly doubled.
>
>As president, Reagan “raised taxes in seven of his eight years
>in office,” including four times in just two years.
>
>As former GOP Senator Alan Simpson, who called Reagan “a dear
>friend,” told NPR, “Ronald Reagan raised taxes 11 times in
>his administration — I was there.”
>
>“Reagan was never afraid to raise taxes,” said historian
>Douglas Brinkley, who edited Reagan’s memoir. Reagan the
>anti-tax zealot is “false mythology,” Brinkley said.
>
>
> 2. Reagan nearly tripled the federal budget deficit.
>
>During the Reagan years, the debt increased to nearly
>$3 trillion, “roughly three times as much as the first 80 years
>of the century had done altogether.”
>
>Reagan enacted a major tax cut his first year in office and
>government revenue dropped off precipitously.
>
>Despite the conservative myth that tax cuts somehow increase
>revenue, the government went deeper into debt and Reagan had
>to raise taxes just a year after he enacted his tax cut.
>
>Despite ten more tax hikes on everything from gasoline to
>corporate income, Reagan was never able to get the deficit
>under control.
>
>
> 3. Unemployment soared after Reagan’s 1981 tax cuts.
>
>Unemployment jumped to 10.8 percent after Reagan enacted
>his much-touted tax cut, and it took years for the rate to get
>back down to its previous level.
>
>Meanwhile, income inequality exploded.
>
>Despite the myth that Reagan presided over an era of unmatched
>economic boom for all Americans, Reagan disproportionately taxed
>the poor and middle class, but the economic growth of the 1980?s
>did little help them.
>
>“Since 1980, median household income has risen only 30
>percent, adjusted for inflation, while average incomes at the top
>have tripled or quadrupled,” the New York Times’ David Leonhardt
>noted.
>
>
> 4. Reagan grew the size of the federal government tremendously.
>
>Reagan promised “to move boldly, decisively, and quickly to control
>the runaway growth of federal spending,” but federal
>spending “ballooned” under Reagan.
>
>He bailed out Social Security in 1983 after attempting to privatize
>it, and set up a progressive taxation system to keep it funded into
>the future.
>
>He promised to cut government agencies like the Department of
>Energy and Education but ended up adding one of the largest —
>the Department of Veterans’ Affairs, which today has a budget of
>nearly $90 billion and close to 300,000 employees.
>
>He also hiked defense spending by over $100 billion a year to a
>level not seen since the height of the Vietnam war.
>
>
> 5. Reagan did little to fight a woman’s right to choose.
>
>As governor of California in 1967, Reagan signed a bill to
>liberalize the state’s abortion laws that “resulted in more than
>a million abortions.”
>
>When Reagan ran for president, he advocated a constitutional
>amendment that would have prohibited all abortions except
>when necessary to save the life of the mother, but once in office,
>he “never seriously pursued” curbing choice.
>
>
> 6. Reagan was a “bellicose peacenik.”
>
>He wrote in his memoirs that “[m]y dream…became a world free of
>nuclear weapons.” “This vision stemmed from the president’s belief
>that the biblical account of Armageddon prophesied nuclear war —
>and that apocalypse could be averted if everyone, especially the
>Soviets, eliminated nuclear weapons,” the Washington Monthly noted.
>And Reagan’s military buildup was meant to crush the Soviet Union,
>but “also to put the United States in a stronger position from which
>to establish effective arms control” for the the entire world —
>a vision acted out by Regean’s vice president, George H.W. Bush,
>when he became president.
>
>
> 7. Reagan gave amnesty to 3 million undocumented immigrants.
>
>Reagan signed into law a bill that made any immigrant who had
>entered the country before 1982 eligible for amnesty. The bill was
>sold as a crackdown, but its tough sanctions on employers who
>hired undocumented immigrants were removed before final passage.
>
>The bill helped 3 million people and millions more family members
>gain American residency. It has since become a source of
>major embarrassment for conservatives.
>
>
> 8. Reagan illegally funneled weapons to Iran.
>
>Reagan and other senior U.S. officials secretly sold arms to
>officials in Iran, which was subject to a an arms embargo at the
>time, in exchange for American hostages.
>
>Some funds from the illegal arms sales also went to fund anti-
>Communist rebels in Nicaragua — something Congress had
>already prohibited the administration from doing.
>
>When the deals went public, the Iran-Contra Affair, as it came to
>be known, was an enormous political scandal that forced several
>senior administration officials to resign.
>
>
> 9. Reagan vetoed a comprehensive anti-Apartheid act
>
>...which placed sanctions on South Africa and cut off all
>American trade with the country.
>
>Reagan’s veto was overridden by the Republican-controlled Senate.
>
>Reagan responded by saying “I deeply regret that Congress has seen
>fit to override my veto,” saying that the law “will not solve
>the serious problems that plague that country.”
>
>
> 10. Reagan helped create the Taliban and Osama Bin Laden.
>
>Reagan fought a proxy war with the Soviet Union by training,
>arming, equipping, and funding Islamist mujahidin fighters
>in Afghanistan.
>
>Reagan funneled billions of dollars, along with top-secret
>intelligence and sophisticated weaponry to these fighters through
>the Pakistani intelligence service.
>
>The Talbian and Osama Bin Laden — a prominent mujahidin
>commander — emerged from these mujahidin groups Reagan helped
>create, and U.S. policy towards Pakistan remains strained because
>of the intelligence services’ close relations to these fighters.
>
>In fact, Reagan’s decision to continue the proxy war after the
>Soviets were willing to retreat played a direct role in Bin
>Laden’s ascendancy.
>
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