What is atheism?
Seon Ferguson
usually do the complete opposite of what they want. You see, I hate bullies.
So expect more posts like this from me. Apologies to those from alt.atheism
who don't wish to hear from me but I had to copy and paste all the groups
from the "Ignorant Jerkwad Sarah Palin Totally Clueless About Science"
thread incase the cowardly gay man was lurking in alt.atheism. Of course
most people there have plonked me so I probably shouldn't appologise as they
won't read this anyway *breaths* so enjoy.
I also hope to educate morons like fasgandh, oprem and u2fan who lie about
atheism and say it is a religion.
http://www.atheists.org/atheism/About_Atheism
Atheism
What is Atheism?
"What is atheism?" is usually the one question never asked of most atheists.
Most people do not ask this question because they already have their own
ideas about what atheism is and what atheists are. Where these ideas
originate vary.
Older dictionaries define atheism as "a belief that there is no God" and/or
"denial of God." Some dictionaries go further and say that atheism is
"wickedness," "sinfulness," "heathenism," "paganism," and "immorality." Some
dictionaries even say that atheism is the "doctrine that there is no God."
At least The American Heritage ® Dictionary says "God and gods" after the
word "doctrine," but that does not detract from the fact that use of the
word doctrine is incorrect.
The fact that the dictionary's definition uses the phrase "there is no God"
betrays the theistic influence in defining the word atheism. If dictionaries
did not contain such influence, then the definition would read, "A belief
that there are no gods." The use of god in singular form, with a capital G,
is indicative of Christian influence.
In addition, using words like "doctrine" and "denial" betray the negativity
seen of atheists by theistic writers. Atheism does not have a doctrine at
all and atheists certainly do not "deny" that gods exist. Denial is the
"refusal to believe." Atheism does not "know there is a god but refuse to
believe in him" (or her). That would be like saying that you know Big Foot
exists but you refuse to believe in him. If the evidence of gods was
insurmountable and provable, and atheists still refused to believe, then
that would be an act of denial.
Speaking of the original meaning, the word atheism comes from the Greek
atheos, which means "without god." The original meaning of the word, based
on its Greek origins, mentions nothing about "disbelief" or "denial." A
short and single-word definition would be "godless."
Is Atheism a belief system or religion?
Theists usually define atheism incorrectly as a belief system. Atheism is
not a belief system. Atheism is not a religion.
Atheism is a lack of belief in gods, from the original Greek meaning of
"without gods." That is it. There is nothing more to it. If someone wrote a
book titled "Atheism Defined," it would only be one sentence long.
Let us look at the different definitions of religion and see if atheism
belongs in any of them.
1. Belief in and reverence for a supernatural power or powers regarded as
creator and governor of the universe. A personal or institutionalized system
grounded in such belief and worship.
No atheism resides in that definition. Atheists do not believe in a
supernatural power or powers.
2. Beliefs, values, and practices based on the teachings of a spiritual
leader.
Atheism does not have a spiritual leader and atheism does not have any rites
or rituals (practices) around such a spiritual leader. Atheism requires no
initiation, no baptism, there is no Atheist Bible (Koran, Vedas, etc) to
read, no rituals that atheists must go through to join an Atheist Church
(temple, mosque, synagogue, sect, etc), and no central beliefs that all
atheists must adhere to in order to be "true atheists."
The common thread that ties all atheists together is a lack of belief in
gods and supernatural beings. Every atheist is as unique as a fingerprint
when it comes to his or her individual philosophy, convictions, and ideals.
Why are you atheists?
There are many reasons why people become atheists. A common misconception is
that most atheists rejected gods because of some traumatic event in their
personal or theistic lives. When asked this question during debates or
discussions the theist assumes atheists were driven from religion because of
some psychological crisis associated with the churches, religions, or gods
that atheists may or may not have had as younger theists, or that atheists
had some major event happen in their personal lives that made them hate
gods. It is not that complicated. In order to hate gods, atheists would have
to believe in gods.
Atheists we have talked to have entered high school, college, or a technical
school as theists and have left as atheists. Some entered seminary or
theology school as theists and left as atheists. For some atheists this
transition did not take place until later in life.
The majority of atheists we have met told us that they started by simply
questioning some of the core beliefs of their religion. These questions led
them to ask their religious leaders. The religious leaders' answers left
them unsatisfied. They would then go out and learn on their own, researching
their theology and often the theology of other religions. For some that
journey took months or a few years and for some that journey took decades.
Some atheists grew up in non-religious households. Other atheists questioned
the theology from their youth and never became a "true believer" in any
religion.
We are atheists because in our view theisms and religions cannot and do not
provide the answers to the biggest questions in life, the very questions
that religionists often claim they are the sole providers of the answers.
We are talking about questions like "Why am I here?" "What's the meaning of
life?" and "Where did I come from?" The religions of the world fail to
answer these questions in a meaningful way. Religions fall short
significantly by reciting or parroting answers that are not logically sound
or just fanciful. Sure, it is nice to think that when we die that we will go
to an afterlife full of peace and tranquility beside loving gods who care
for us for all eternity. However, the reality is completely different.
There is no proof or evidence for the existence of gods. There is no need
for or use for gods. Superstition and ignorance have never served mankind in
a good way. Religions have shown themselves to be intolerant and bigoted.
Religions have impeded scientific progress, liberty, and reformation.
Man has invented many gods over the tens of thousands of years and the
majority of them have fallen by the wayside in the scrapheap of mythology.
The modern manmade gods will be no different than the gods of the early
Shamans or Greeks.
Kadaitcha Man
alt.atheism. of course more hat theism who poste of who post people
tactics i usuall this for the "ignorant jerkwad in alt.aths* so enjoy.
this for they won't apposted me. apologies the groups from me so i have
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appologies the gay troll theism who do the groups for they was lurking
incase more post people those more hat the copy anyway *bread incase as
lurking in ally gay troll the "ignorant jerkwad in alt.athey won't wish
to comple they want jerkwad to the groups from alt.aths* so enjoy. this
from me bullies. so expect more posts like theism. of course there
plonked as me bullies use as me. when but i have plonked as to the
cowardly shouldn't read incase the "ignorant. you see, i had to this is
for theism who don't.
To educate morons like fasgand u2fan who lie about atheism and u2fan who
lie about atheism and say it is a religion. i also hope to educate
morons like fasgand say it is a religion. i also hope to educate morons
like fasgandh,
What is atheism/about_atheism? http://www.atheism what is atheism?
http://www.atheism atheists.org/atheism? http://www.atheism
atheism/about_atheism.
Own ideas originate vary. "what is atheir own ideas originate vary.
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athese theists. most atheists. most people do not ask this and what is
atheists. most people do not athese ideas originate vary. "what is
question never asked of most asked of most people do not athe one
question because ideas about what asked of most atheism?".
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dictionaries gods" and "immorality." some dictionaries even say that use
of that that athere is incorrect. older dictionary say that theism as
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gods" after that atheism," but the word does no god and/or "doctrine is
not does gods" and gods" after and "immorality." some dictionaries no
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american heritage ® dictionaries define that that theism is
"wickedness," "heathenism is "wickedness," "heathenism,".
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the would read, "a betrays the phrase "the fact that the that theistian
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the negativity seen of atheists certainly do not exists by the
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which means nothing about godless." a short and single-word.
Belief system or relief system or religion? is atheism a beligion? is
atheism a belief.
Define atheism incorrectly define atheism is not a belief system.
atheism incorrectly define atheism is not a beligion. theism is not a
belief system. atheists usually as a beligion. theism is not a relief
system. atheism is not a relief system. atheism.
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there is it. that is it. if someone wrote a lack of belief in gods."
there to it. if someone sentence long. atheism is a lack of be one
sentence long. athe original greek meaning of "without gods, from theism
is nothing more to it. that is nothing of "without gods." that is
nothing more is a book titled "atheism is nothing of "without gods."
that is a lack of belief.
Look at them. let us look athe different definition any of theism
belongs in and see if athem. let us look athe different definitions of
them. let us look athem. let us look at theism belongs in any.
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system grounded in such belief and governatural or a superse. a
personalized in such belief and goversonalized system grounded in
supernatural power of the univerence for of the universonal power or or
power or of the univerence for of the univers reverence for
institutionalized in superse. a pernatural or a supernatural.
Atheists do not believe in that definition. atheists do not believe in a
supernatural powers. no atheists do not believe in that definition.
atheists do not believe in a supernatural powers. no atheists.
The teachings of a spiritual leader. 2. beliefs, values, values, values,
and practices based on the teachings of a spiritual leader. 2. beliefs,
values, and practices.
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for gods. there in a good way. religions have is no need formations have
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of than the gods or greeks. man has invent the gods of.
Seon Ferguson
cover thy sin, ye hiccupped:
/S/ubmissive and
/E/sentially
/O/btrusive
/N/ail.
/F/ree-and-easy
/E/erquay with
/R/ipe
/G/lory-hole aches for
/U/nfit
/S/ix shooter for
/O/ne handed clapping.
/N/atterjack.
Seon Ferguson
"Seon Ferguson" <seo...@gnn4i1.cunt> wrote in message
news:1ilacy$thc$z...@alt.diseases.enemas.com.chile...
> Seon Ferguson, ye dissembling mannish youth, courtesy would seem to
> cover thy sin, ye hiccupped:
>
> /S/ubmissive and
Only for the ladies *winks* hey troll just for that I'm going to post more.
Seon Ferguson
your waste is great, ye exhausted:
> well heres the deal. I have a few problems. I tend to get very angry
> easily, and very upset/emotional easily as well. I also have trouble
> talking about my problems. Now i have been dating my girlfriend for a
> little over a year on MSN chat. We never met in person. Then yesterday
> she broke up with me. i had to buy this new computer today. i smashed
> the other one.
sto...@teranews.com
> This is for the gay troll who posted as me. When bullies use those tactics I
> usually do the complete opposite of what they want. You see, I hate bullies.
> So expect more posts like this from me. Apologies to those from alt.atheism
> who don't wish to hear from me but I had to copy and paste all the groups
> from the "Ignorant Jerkwad Sarah Palin Totally Clueless About Science"
> thread incase the cowardly gay man was lurking in alt.atheism. Of course
> most people there have plonked me so I probably shouldn't appologise as they
> won't read this anyway *breaths* so enjoy.
>
> I also hope to educate morons like fasgandh, oprem and u2fan who lie about
> atheism and say it is a religion.
Ilk such as those mouth breathers aren't able to be educated.
Seon Ferguson
<sto...@teranews.com> wrote in message
news:GV5xn.53790$Ht4....@newsfe20.iad...
Your right I was a fool, you can post all the evidence that atheism is not a
religion and they will still post their lies.
Larry
news:vMidnS4oq6EIolnW...@westnet.com.au:
> Why are you atheists?
>
> There are many reasons why people become atheists.
Your text was great right up to this point. People don't "become"
atheists. All humans were BORN atheists and "became", because of
religious brainwashing from a very young age, some kind of believer in
Santa Claus, Jesus Christ, Yahweh or some other mythical being that
never existed.
Any child who is NOT exposed to the religious delusions of their parents
and fed lies as "facts" all his/her life REMAINS an atheist, as they
were born, until someone convinces them otherwise. This is why the
"sales department" of any religion or cult is always the largest
department of the business. Unless, as we see ad nauseum on
alt.atheism, there is a CONSTANT recurrance of the sales program, humans
revert back to their natural atheist state of disbelief in supernatural
nonsense.
The point at which a child has been brainwashed into the parents'
religious delusions is easy to detect. It's when the children no longer
will sleep, by themselves, in the dark, without fear of the boogieman
under the bed and has replaced pleasant, quite sexual, dreams with
horrible nightmares brought on by the post hypnotic suggestions of the
religious delusions of horrible places of fire run by clerical sadists.
Humans are also born nudists and will remain that way their entire lives
until "trained" that their nudism is unacceptable to the society in
which they were born, for some crazy reason or another. Children born
to nudists have no shame of their bodies or sexual organs, ever. Nudism
is their natural state, just like atheism, and they must be FORCED to
put on unnatural clothing the society wants them to wear.
Humans are also very sexual by birth. A baby boy will play continuously
with his little willie, at great pleasure to himself, until FORCED to
stop by beating him up verbally or mentally by the formerly beaten up
adults, regenerating the social stupidities of centuries past religious
morals dreamed up to control the masses by some cleric, under penalty of
death or hell or some other really nasty penalty. Left alone,
unfettered by "training" from a society, Humans will masturbate from
birth until they reach puberty, at which time they will breed
continuously to menopause, exactly as nature intended. Our feeble
attempts to stop them from this natural penchance to breed until they
are some arbitrary "age of consent", dreamed up by a controlling elite,
be it clergy or politicians, is a "learned" response and very unnatural
state, indeed.
--
"iPad is to computing what Etch-A-Sketch is to art!"
Larry
Christopher A. Lee
>"Seon Ferguson" <seo...@gmail.com> wrote in
>news:vMidnS4oq6EIolnW...@westnet.com.au:
>
>> Why are you atheists?
>>
>> There are many reasons why people become atheists.
>
>Your text was great right up to this point. People don't "become"
>atheists. All humans were BORN atheists and "became", because of
>religious brainwashing from a very young age, some kind of believer in
>Santa Claus, Jesus Christ, Yahweh or some other mythical being that
>never existed.
>
>Any child who is NOT exposed to the religious delusions of their parents
>and fed lies as "facts" all his/her life REMAINS an atheist, as they
>were born, until someone convinces them otherwise. This is why the
>"sales department" of any religion or cult is always the largest
>department of the business. Unless, as we see ad nauseum on
>alt.atheism, there is a CONSTANT recurrance of the sales program, humans
>revert back to their natural atheist state of disbelief in supernatural
>nonsense.
Sean (and a few others here) don't seem to understand this even though
several of us have offered ourselves as examples. It's actually pretty
common in the less religious countries.
The day you encounter theists for the first time, the only thing that
happens is the existence of theists gets added to your life
experience. Your state of not believing hasn't changed - you are now
aware that some people believe something you don't. And after that it
is hard to take them seriously about anything else.
Seon Ferguson
"Larry" <no...@home.com> wrote in message
news:Xns9D5A86ADCC0...@74.209.131.13...
> "Seon Ferguson" <seo...@gmail.com> wrote in
> news:vMidnS4oq6EIolnW...@westnet.com.au:
>
>> Why are you atheists?
>>
>> There are many reasons why people become atheists.
>
> Your text was great right up to this point. People don't "become"
> atheists. All humans were BORN atheists and "became", because of
> religious brainwashing from a very young age, some kind of believer in
> Santa Claus, Jesus Christ, Yahweh or some other mythical being that
> never existed.
>
Exactly and because of the child's natural evolutionary instinct to listen
to their parents for survival (Richard Dawkins puts it better than me) they
believe what their parents say without question. That's why it is so easy to
make a child believe in God or Santa Clause.
> Any child who is NOT exposed to the religious delusions of their parents
> and fed lies as "facts" all his/her life REMAINS an atheist, as they
> were born, until someone convinces them otherwise. This is why the
> "sales department" of any religion or cult is always the largest
> department of the business. Unless, as we see ad nauseum on
> alt.atheism, there is a CONSTANT recurrance of the sales program, humans
> revert back to their natural atheist state of disbelief in supernatural
> nonsense.
>
Those children are so lucky. But your right that's why they are so many ad
nauseum from people who want to make everyone believe in their deluded
state. They can't stand the fact that (forgive the example) people have
escaped the Matrix, so they try to trap people back in.
> The point at which a child has been brainwashed into the parents'
> religious delusions is easy to detect. It's when the children no longer
> will sleep, by themselves, in the dark, without fear of the boogieman
> under the bed and has replaced pleasant, quite sexual, dreams with
> horrible nightmares brought on by the post hypnotic suggestions of the
> religious delusions of horrible places of fire run by clerical sadists.
>
>
I'm sure atheist children are afraid of the boogie man (if anyone was raised
an atheist please correct me if I'm wrong) but the trouble is they continue
to believe in the boogie man when normal children will get over it. I mean
why would a grown man believe in Satan? Come on!
>
> Humans are also born nudists and will remain that way their entire lives
> until "trained" that their nudism is unacceptable to the society in
> which they were born, for some crazy reason or another. Children born
> to nudists have no shame of their bodies or sexual organs, ever. Nudism
> is their natural state, just like atheism, and they must be FORCED to
> put on unnatural clothing the society wants them to wear.
>
>
Yep and if they don't they get the same label that "Communists" have or
other minorities like that. But I think if more people like Richard Dawkins
or Christopher Hitchens educate the public at least people won't have that
stereotype. They have educated me.
>
> Humans are also very sexual by birth. A baby boy will play continuously
> with his little willie, at great pleasure to himself, until FORCED to
> stop by beating him up verbally or mentally by the formerly beaten up
> adults, regenerating the social stupidities of centuries past religious
> morals dreamed up to control the masses by some cleric, under penalty of
> death or hell or some other really nasty penalty. Left alone,
> unfettered by "training" from a society, Humans will masturbate from
> birth until they reach puberty, at which time they will breed
> continuously to menopause, exactly as nature intended. Our feeble
> attempts to stop them from this natural penchance to breed until they
> are some arbitrary "age of consent", dreamed up by a controlling elite,
> be it clergy or politicians, is a "learned" response and very unnatural
> state, indeed.
>
That's yet another good point. That's why so many people are sexually hung
up today. But I have no problem with self pleasure or sex before marriage,
as long as it is safe. My attitude is as long as you wear protection.
Seon Ferguson
"Christopher A. Lee" <ca...@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:6lubs59ag8elht6jh...@4ax.com...
Actually after reading Richard Dawkins and listening to Christopher Hitchens
clips on you tube I am inclined to agree. A child is born with no beliefs.
It is their childhood that determines their beliefs. It is their parents who
effect their belief system. And that is why religion is so hard to escape
from. When it has been shoved down your throat your entire childhood then
you get messed up as an adult. That is why I think it is a form of child
abuse and what's worse is the abusers think they are doing the right thing.
All thanks to religion.
Richo
> "Seon Ferguson" <seo...@gmail.com> wrote innews:vMidnS4oq6EIolnW...@westnet.com.au:
>
> > Why are you atheists?
>
> > There are many reasons why people become atheists.
>
> Your text was great right up to this point. People don't "become"
> atheists.
Some people do. I am currently reading "Godless" By Dan Barker.
> All humans were BORN atheists
In some sense of the word - yes.
The differnce between unconcious godlessness and concious aware
godlessness is rather profound and important.
I am godless - but I am aware that I could believe in a god.
A rock or a newborn is godless but unaware that it is.
I am a nonsmoker - because I quit smoking - others have never smoked.
Still, an adult non smoker is aware that people do smoke tobacco and
aware that they could choose to smoke.
A new born baby is a non-smoker in the same way it is an atheist - in
some trivial but not very meaningful way.
Atheist "in an interesting way" is when you are aware that you could
believe and don't.
Mark.
Yap
> "Christopher A. Lee" <ca...@optonline.net> wrote in messagenews:6lubs59ag8elht6jh...@4ax.com...
>
> - Tunjuk teks yang dipetik -
Yes, religious indoctrination is a child abuse process.
It is very hard to erase this kind of activity because a child is
subject to abuse by parents and not outsider.
Howeverm with proper education and a sensible brain, most would be
able to see the truth in their adult lives.
Some could leave it as it is, seeing no harm. Some skeptical but are
not prepared to seek further truth.
And of course, some definitely become atheists.
The basic fact is, there is never anything that can possibly be
attributeable to a god.
Christopher A. Lee
wrote:
>
>"Larry" <no...@home.com> wrote in message
>news:Xns9D5A86ADCC0...@74.209.131.13...
>> "Seon Ferguson" <seo...@gmail.com> wrote in
>> news:vMidnS4oq6EIolnW...@westnet.com.au:
>>
>>> Why are you atheists?
>>>
>>> There are many reasons why people become atheists.
>>
>> Your text was great right up to this point. People don't "become"
>> atheists. All humans were BORN atheists and "became", because of
>> religious brainwashing from a very young age, some kind of believer in
>> Santa Claus, Jesus Christ, Yahweh or some other mythical being that
>> never existed.
>>
>Exactly and because of the child's natural evolutionary instinct to listen
>to their parents for survival (Richard Dawkins puts it better than me) they
>believe what their parents say without question. That's why it is so easy to
>make a child believe in God or Santa Clause.
Nicely put.
>> Any child who is NOT exposed to the religious delusions of their parents
>> and fed lies as "facts" all his/her life REMAINS an atheist, as they
>> were born, until someone convinces them otherwise. This is why the
>> "sales department" of any religion or cult is always the largest
>> department of the business. Unless, as we see ad nauseum on
>> alt.atheism, there is a CONSTANT recurrance of the sales program, humans
>> revert back to their natural atheist state of disbelief in supernatural
>> nonsense.
>>
>Those children are so lucky. But your right that's why they are so many ad
>nauseum from people who want to make everyone believe in their deluded
>state. They can't stand the fact that (forgive the example) people have
>escaped the Matrix, so they try to trap people back in.
It's pretty common in Europe.
>> The point at which a child has been brainwashed into the parents'
>> religious delusions is easy to detect. It's when the children no longer
>> will sleep, by themselves, in the dark, without fear of the boogieman
>> under the bed and has replaced pleasant, quite sexual, dreams with
>> horrible nightmares brought on by the post hypnotic suggestions of the
>> religious delusions of horrible places of fire run by clerical sadists.
>>
>>
>I'm sure atheist children are afraid of the boogie man (if anyone was raised
>an atheist please correct me if I'm wrong) but the trouble is they continue
>to believe in the boogie man when normal children will get over it. I mean
>why would a grown man believe in Satan? Come on!
That's another one they learn. I wasn't scared of the bogeyman but
then that was introduced as a game.
In the UK the "sidewalks" are called pavement because they were
literally paved with paving stones. The game was to avoid stepping on
the gaps because the stones would open up like trapdoor and the
bogeyman would get you.
There ws a child's verse by A.A.Milne AFAIR where there were bears
waiting to eat you if you stepped on the gap. Again, told as a sort of
game.
My brother was scared of the bogeyman because somebody told him about
he hid behind a particular door and would carry him off. Not as a
game.
Seon Ferguson
"Yap" <hhya...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:689280f3-8994-428a...@c36g2000yqm.googlegroups.com...
That's what happened to me. Because of my upbringing I never even took a
second glance of evolution, when I did at least I got freed from my
childhood indoctrinated belief that God created us. I now understand that
human beings are the process of evolution by natural selection and we and
Ape's share the same common ancestor. So yes your right education can save
us. But religion is like drug addiction, you can only be saved from it when
you admit you need help. Like I did.
Seon Ferguson
"Christopher A. Lee" <ca...@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:43ucs5lnqdqifqi1f...@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 15 Apr 2010 12:06:17 +1000, "Seon Ferguson" <seo...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>>
>>"Larry" <no...@home.com> wrote in message
>>news:Xns9D5A86ADCC0...@74.209.131.13...
>>> "Seon Ferguson" <seo...@gmail.com> wrote in
>>> news:vMidnS4oq6EIolnW...@westnet.com.au:
>>>
>>>> Why are you atheists?
>>>>
>>>> There are many reasons why people become atheists.
>>>
>>> Your text was great right up to this point. People don't "become"
>>> atheists. All humans were BORN atheists and "became", because of
>>> religious brainwashing from a very young age, some kind of believer in
>>> Santa Claus, Jesus Christ, Yahweh or some other mythical being that
>>> never existed.
>>>
>>Exactly and because of the child's natural evolutionary instinct to listen
>>to their parents for survival (Richard Dawkins puts it better than me)
>>they
>>believe what their parents say without question. That's why it is so easy
>>to
>>make a child believe in God or Santa Clause.
>
> Nicely put.
>
You can thank Richard Dawkins for that.
>>> Any child who is NOT exposed to the religious delusions of their parents
>>> and fed lies as "facts" all his/her life REMAINS an atheist, as they
>>> were born, until someone convinces them otherwise. This is why the
>>> "sales department" of any religion or cult is always the largest
>>> department of the business. Unless, as we see ad nauseum on
>>> alt.atheism, there is a CONSTANT recurrance of the sales program, humans
>>> revert back to their natural atheist state of disbelief in supernatural
>>> nonsense.
>>>
>>Those children are so lucky. But your right that's why they are so many ad
>>nauseum from people who want to make everyone believe in their deluded
>>state. They can't stand the fact that (forgive the example) people have
>>escaped the Matrix, so they try to trap people back in.
>
> It's pretty common in Europe.
>
And on usenet.
>>> The point at which a child has been brainwashed into the parents'
>>> religious delusions is easy to detect. It's when the children no longer
>>> will sleep, by themselves, in the dark, without fear of the boogieman
>>> under the bed and has replaced pleasant, quite sexual, dreams with
>>> horrible nightmares brought on by the post hypnotic suggestions of the
>>> religious delusions of horrible places of fire run by clerical sadists.
>>>
>>>
>>I'm sure atheist children are afraid of the boogie man (if anyone was
>>raised
>>an atheist please correct me if I'm wrong) but the trouble is they
>>continue
>>to believe in the boogie man when normal children will get over it. I mean
>>why would a grown man believe in Satan? Come on!
>
> That's another one they learn. I wasn't scared of the bogeyman but
> then that was introduced as a game.
>
> In the UK the "sidewalks" are called pavement because they were
> literally paved with paving stones. The game was to avoid stepping on
> the gaps because the stones would open up like trapdoor and the
> bogeyman would get you.
>
> There ws a child's verse by A.A.Milne AFAIR where there were bears
> waiting to eat you if you stepped on the gap. Again, told as a sort of
> game.
>
> My brother was scared of the bogeyman because somebody told him about
> he hid behind a particular door and would carry him off. Not as a
> game.
Oh now I see what Larry meant when he said atheist children won't be afraid
of the boogie man, thanks. Yeah your right the only reason I feared monsters
under the bed was because I was introduced to it as a child. If I was lucky
enough like you to be told that it's all just make believe I would not fear
it. But I feared it into my adult years because I suffer from a sleeping
disorder called Sleep Paralysis. It wasn't until I educated my self then I
realised it was a completely natural process and actually learnt to enjoy
it.
Oh man if the children were just educated they wouldn't be afraid of
sidewalks or silly superstitions. In fact I just got it, if they were
educated that religion is just fairy tales then adults wouldn't be so messed
up today and be so afraid of hell. I regret my upbringing (I had no say) but
I am also proud that I have educated myself.
Seon Ferguson
"Richo" <m.richa...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:e36b7498-80bc-4142...@w17g2000yqj.googlegroups.com...
> On Apr 15, 3:14 am, Larry <no...@home.com> wrote:
>> "Seon Ferguson" <seo...@gmail.com> wrote
>> innews:vMidnS4oq6EIolnW...@westnet.com.au:
>>
>> > Why are you atheists?
>>
>> > There are many reasons why people become atheists.
>>
>> Your text was great right up to this point. People don't "become"
>> atheists.
>
> Some people do. I am currently reading "Godless" By Dan Barker.
>
But only after being indoctrinated from childhood. By the way, I am sure
that will be a better book than "Godless" by Ann Colter *grins*
>> All humans were BORN atheists
>
>
> In some sense of the word - yes.
> The differnce between unconcious godlessness and concious aware
> godlessness is rather profound and important.
> I am godless - but I am aware that I could believe in a god.
> A rock or a newborn is godless but unaware that it is.
>
Maybe we could say a child is born without beliefs and gets indoctrinated
into a belief system by their parents, who were also indoctrinated as
children?
> I am a nonsmoker - because I quit smoking - others have never smoked.
>
> Still, an adult non smoker is aware that people do smoke tobacco and
> aware that they could choose to smoke.
> A new born baby is a non-smoker in the same way it is an atheist - in
> some trivial but not very meaningful way.
>
> Atheist "in an interesting way" is when you are aware that you could
> believe and don't.
>
I'm not sure what I believe anymore but it's not religion.
> Mark.
>
>
Christopher A. Lee
wrote:
>"Christopher A. Lee" <ca...@optonline.net> wrote in message
I don't think it it is so much that it is shoved down the throat as
taught before the child has learned to think. At the same time they
learn the base vocabulary on which everything else is built. But the
words include God as part of their meaning. So eg a cute little kitten
is actually "the kitten that God gave us". So everything is already
seen in terms of God before they can even think about it.
What religion/church/prayer etc do, is reinforce this.
panam...@hotmail.com
Over the years, I've discovered that you can't "reason" someone out of
a position they hold for emotional reasons.
-Panama Floyd, Atlanta.
aa#2015, Member Knights of BAAWA!
"..the prayer cloth of one aeon is the doormat of the next."
-Mark Twain
Religious societies are *less* moral than secular ones:
http://moses.creighton.edu/JRS/2005/2005-11.html
Seon Ferguson
<panam...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:a547e379-72be-4e6b...@11g2000yqr.googlegroups.com...
No matter how much evidence you post. It's like trying to explain to a child
there is no Santa (not that I would do that). It's that same emotional
denial.
Seon Ferguson
"Christopher A. Lee" <ca...@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:oqucs5d617094troe...@4ax.com...
Yeah good point as I said evolution has made it so children are so trusting
of their parents, which is a good thing because otherwise when you told not
to cross the road without looking you would want to see for yourself. And
yeah church doesn't help matters and if a child goes to church once a week
it will be reinforced.
Also do you think adults who believe this stuff as well reinforces the
beliefs? I mean when children grow out of believing in Santa our parents
usually accept it (although my mum tried to get me to believe in him for a
few years) and adults all agree that there is no Santa but with religion
some adults still share the delusion and don't all agree that it is all make
believe.
Richo
> "Richo" <m.richardso...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:e36b7498-80bc-4142...@w17g2000yqj.googlegroups.com...> On Apr 15, 3:14 am, Larry <no...@home.com> wrote:
> >> "Seon Ferguson" <seo...@gmail.com> wrote
> >> innews:vMidnS4oq6EIolnW...@westnet.com.au:
>
> >> > Why are you atheists?
>
> >> > There are many reasons why people become atheists.
>
> >> Your text was great right up to this point. People don't "become"
> >> atheists.
>
> > Some people do. I am currently reading "Godless" By Dan Barker.
>
> But only after being indoctrinated from childhood.
Yes - he brought up in an evangelical church.
> By the way, I am sure
> that will be a better book than "Godless" by Ann Colter *grins*
>
8-)
Yes it is an excellent book - highly recommended.
Full Title:
"Godless: How an evangelical preacher became one of Americas leading
atheists"
> >> All humans were BORN atheists
>
> > In some sense of the word - yes.
> > The differnce between unconcious godlessness and concious aware
> > godlessness is rather profound and important.
> > I am godless - but I am aware that I could believe in a god.
> > A rock or a newborn is godless but unaware that it is.
>
> Maybe we could say a child is born without beliefs and gets indoctrinated
> into a belief system by their parents, who were also indoctrinated as
> children?
>
Thats generally true - yes.
There is often more than one way of saying something.
> > I am a nonsmoker - because I quit smoking - others have never smoked.
>
> > Still, an adult non smoker is aware that people do smoke tobacco and
> > aware that they could choose to smoke.
> > A new born baby is a non-smoker in the same way it is an atheist - in
> > some trivial but not very meaningful way.
>
> > Atheist "in an interesting way" is when you are aware that you could
> > believe and don't.
>
> I'm not sure what I believe anymore but it's not religion.
>
I beleive many things - but those beliefs are always subject to
review, doubt and revision.
My religion - if I had one - would be "kindness, honesty and freedom".
I am told (by theist and atheist alike) that cannot be a religion
because it doesn't contain enough bullshit.
I dont think that's fair.
8-(
Mark.
> > Mark.
Seon Ferguson
"Richo" <m.richa...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:99fcfecd-bb29-4a53...@b23g2000yqn.googlegroups.com...
> On Apr 15, 12:47 pm, "Seon Ferguson" <seo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> "Richo" <m.richardso...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>>
>> news:e36b7498-80bc-4142...@w17g2000yqj.googlegroups.com...>
>> On Apr 15, 3:14 am, Larry <no...@home.com> wrote:
>> >> "Seon Ferguson" <seo...@gmail.com> wrote
>> >> innews:vMidnS4oq6EIolnW...@westnet.com.au:
>>
>> >> > Why are you atheists?
>>
>> >> > There are many reasons why people become atheists.
>>
>> >> Your text was great right up to this point. People don't "become"
>> >> atheists.
>>
>> > Some people do. I am currently reading "Godless" By Dan Barker.
>>
>> But only after being indoctrinated from childhood.
>
> Yes - he brought up in an evangelical church.
>
And I thought my childhood was bad.
>> By the way, I am sure
>> that will be a better book than "Godless" by Ann Colter *grins*
>>
>
> 8-)
> Yes it is an excellent book - highly recommended.
> Full Title:
> "Godless: How an evangelical preacher became one of Americas leading
> atheists"
>
It sounds good, I have been meaning to read more books by atheists.
>> >> All humans were BORN atheists
>>
>> > In some sense of the word - yes.
>> > The differnce between unconcious godlessness and concious aware
>> > godlessness is rather profound and important.
>> > I am godless - but I am aware that I could believe in a god.
>> > A rock or a newborn is godless but unaware that it is.
>>
>> Maybe we could say a child is born without beliefs and gets indoctrinated
>> into a belief system by their parents, who were also indoctrinated as
>> children?
>>
> Thats generally true - yes.
> There is often more than one way of saying something.
>
Yep exactly.
>> > I am a nonsmoker - because I quit smoking - others have never smoked.
>>
>> > Still, an adult non smoker is aware that people do smoke tobacco and
>> > aware that they could choose to smoke.
>> > A new born baby is a non-smoker in the same way it is an atheist - in
>> > some trivial but not very meaningful way.
>>
>> > Atheist "in an interesting way" is when you are aware that you could
>> > believe and don't.
>>
>> I'm not sure what I believe anymore but it's not religion.
>>
> I beleive many things - but those beliefs are always subject to
> review, doubt and revision.
> My religion - if I had one - would be "kindness, honesty and freedom".
> I am told (by theist and atheist alike) that cannot be a religion
> because it doesn't contain enough bullshit.
> I dont think that's fair.
>
I'm like that as well. I have tried to look at my views more critically and
looked at alternatives. Critical thinking is a very useful tool. Kindness,
honesty and freedom is a good philosophy. I would add respect though I find
if I treat people with respect I am treated with respect and when I'm not
well some people are just jerks.
> 8-(
>
> Mark.
>
>> > Mark.
>
Christopher A. Lee
wrote:
>On Apr 13, 7:59 pm, "Seon Ferguson" <seo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Your right I was a fool, you can post all the evidence that atheism is not a
>> religion and they will still post their lies.
>
>Over the years, I've discovered that you can't "reason" someone out of
>a position they hold for emotional reasons.
Or vice versa.
Christopher A. Lee
wrote:
A community of serious theists is self-reinforcing.
Things like daily prayer, Bible reading etc. The immediate community
is the family.
It's pretty obvious that one of the reasons JWs, Mormons etc send out
missionaries to people who tell them where to shove it, is to teach
them how hostile the world is so when they return to the comfort of
the community they won't want to leave it.
Having their own meanings for words has the same effect. It leads to
mutual frustration rather like the Monty Python Hungarian phrase book.
Somebody bringing up the subject and insisting on non-standard
meanings themselves, and interpreting what you say through these
meanings, demands to treated as an idiot. "Proof" that the world hates
them - a self-fulfilling prophecy.
They're convinced it is because they are the good guys, and have been
pre-programmed with slanderous and libelous "reasons" why people
reject their message - which they tell their involuntary audience
escalating the already negative reaction. Which "proves" just how
hostile the world is.
Neither is deliberate, but that is the result, and it is successful in
keeping them in the fold.
Christopher A. Lee
wrote:
>"Richo" <m.richa...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>news:e36b7498-80bc-4142...@w17g2000yqj.googlegroups.com...
>> On Apr 15, 3:14 am, Larry <no...@home.com> wrote:
>>> "Seon Ferguson" <seo...@gmail.com> wrote
>>> innews:vMidnS4oq6EIolnW...@westnet.com.au:
>>>
>>> > Why are you atheists?
>>>
>>> > There are many reasons why people become atheists.
>>>
>>> Your text was great right up to this point. People don't "become"
>>> atheists.
>>
>> Some people do. I am currently reading "Godless" By Dan Barker.
>>
>But only after being indoctrinated from childhood. By the way, I am sure
>that will be a better book than "Godless" by Ann Colter *grins*
It's basically a rehash of "Losing Faith In Faith" using much of the
same material which is a set of essays and and articles he wrote.
There's more in the former.
They're both good reading.
Seon Ferguson
"Christopher A. Lee" <ca...@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:clids5lu5v4jio65p...@4ax.com...
When your going to tell people what to believe of course people are going to
tell them to shove it. But then the believers will take this as a sign of
"Persecution" Maybe next time a JW or Mormon knocks on my door I should
explain tot hem I respect their freedom of religion but I don't believe in
myths.
> Having their own meanings for words has the same effect. It leads to
> mutual frustration rather like the Monty Python Hungarian phrase book.
> Somebody bringing up the subject and insisting on non-standard
> meanings themselves, and interpreting what you say through these
> meanings, demands to treated as an idiot. "Proof" that the world hates
> them - a self-fulfilling prophecy.
>
I'll have to look that up it sounds good. Did you see the Simpsons episode
where the Jehovas Witness were about to ring Marge's door bell and one of
them says "Wait, I just had a thought. Maybe we're bothering people by
trying to change their religion. What if we don't have all the answers?" and
the other one goes "You're right. Let's go get real jobs." If only they
would realise that is why people are hostile to them, not because of their
religion. I couldn't give a tinkers toot what someone believed as long as
they gave me the same respect and tolerance.
> They're convinced it is because they are the good guys, and have been
> pre-programmed with slanderous and libelous "reasons" why people
> reject their message - which they tell their involuntary audience
> escalating the already negative reaction. Which "proves" just how
> hostile the world is.
>
>
I think the Jehovas Witness believe God created us so only 40,000 people
would be "Saved" so when someone tells them where to stick it they take it
as evidence of their persecution but also they just think we are one of the
billions of souls pre destined for hell.
> Neither is deliberate, but that is the result, and it is successful in
> keeping them in the fold.
>
Yeah true so when they hear any criticism of them they just say it's
persecution and ignore it. I could argue that by forcing their beliefs down
our throats they are persecuting us non religious people but that would
probably fall on death ears when it comes to Jehovas Witnesses.
Seon Ferguson
"Christopher A. Lee" <ca...@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:mfjds51gt2rakf8d2...@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 15 Apr 2010 12:47:52 +1000, "Seon Ferguson" <seo...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>>"Richo" <m.richa...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>>news:e36b7498-80bc-4142...@w17g2000yqj.googlegroups.com...
>>> On Apr 15, 3:14 am, Larry <no...@home.com> wrote:
>>>> "Seon Ferguson" <seo...@gmail.com> wrote
>>>> innews:vMidnS4oq6EIolnW...@westnet.com.au:
>>>>
>>>> > Why are you atheists?
>>>>
>>>> > There are many reasons why people become atheists.
>>>>
>>>> Your text was great right up to this point. People don't "become"
>>>> atheists.
>>>
>>> Some people do. I am currently reading "Godless" By Dan Barker.
>>>
>>But only after being indoctrinated from childhood. By the way, I am sure
>>that will be a better book than "Godless" by Ann Colter *grins*
>
> It's basically a rehash of "Losing Faith In Faith" using much of the
> same material which is a set of essays and and articles he wrote.
>
> There's more in the former.
>
> They're both good reading.
>
I haven't read either. But ever since I started researching atheism because
of the troll I wouldn't mind reading more atheist books. I have read the God
Delusion and the greatest Show on Earth, both brilliant books and the later
debunks the nonsense anti evolutionists (or history deniers) come up with So
yeah I'll see if the library has any of his books or something.
Christopher A. Lee
wrote:
Monty Python Hungarian Phrase Book sketch:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G6D1YI-41ao
>> They're convinced it is because they are the good guys, and have been
>> pre-programmed with slanderous and libelous "reasons" why people
>> reject their message - which they tell their involuntary audience
>> escalating the already negative reaction. Which "proves" just how
>> hostile the world is.
>>
>I think the Jehovas Witness believe God created us so only 40,000 people
>would be "Saved" so when someone tells them where to stick it they take it
>as evidence of their persecution but also they just think we are one of the
>billions of souls pre destined for hell.
Which makes non-JWs untrustworthy. Have you ever tried to explain
things to them? They talk at you and in their mind you have nothing to
say.
Which is extremely disrespectful.
Christopher A. Lee
wrote:
I'm more interested in the psychology behind fundamentalism, rather
than what they believe. I approach the beliefs themselves in terms of
comparative religion as a cultural or anthropological phenomenon.
Two good books along these lines are "God's own Scientists" By
Christopher Twomey, published by Rutgers University Press. He's an
anthropologist who doesn't go into the rights and wrongs of
creationism but why they believe in myths rather than reality, what
motivates them etc. To be honest, I am not particularly interested in
books that refute them because that gives them undeserved credence,
it's like refuting the stork theory of obstetrics.
Another is "The Mind Of The Bible Believer" by Edmund Cohen. He's a
secular Jew with a psychology education who was sucked into
evangelical fundamentalism. When he recovered he analysed how he was
sucked in and what kept him in it. It's a bit dry and I don't always
agree with him but it is interesting reading.
Eg he thinks Paul was a brilliant psychologist for his time and set up
the mechanisms deliberately while I think they just evolved over time.
IMO Paul wasn't that clever, as evidenced by his taking Epimenides'
paradox seriously ("Everything a Cretan says is a lie. I am a
Cretan").
>>>>> All humans were BORN atheists
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> In some sense of the word - yes.
>>>> The differnce between unconcious godlessness and concious aware
>>>> godlessness is rather profound and important.
>>>> I am godless - but I am aware that I could believe in a god.
>>>> A rock or a newborn is godless but unaware that it is.
But if he wasn't taught to be theist, the first time he encounters
theists the only thing that happens is he becomes aware that some
people believe something. His own state of not believing it doesn't
change.
It's like reading fairy stories and then discovering somebody who
believes them.
Seon Ferguson
"Christopher A. Lee" <ca...@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:tclds59b3flk077q5...@4ax.com...
Lol oh that one, bouncy bouncy.
>>> They're convinced it is because they are the good guys, and have been
>>> pre-programmed with slanderous and libelous "reasons" why people
>>> reject their message - which they tell their involuntary audience
>>> escalating the already negative reaction. Which "proves" just how
>>> hostile the world is.
>>>
>>I think the Jehovas Witness believe God created us so only 40,000 people
>>would be "Saved" so when someone tells them where to stick it they take it
>>as evidence of their persecution but also they just think we are one of
>>the
>>billions of souls pre destined for hell.
>
> Which makes non-JWs untrustworthy. Have you ever tried to explain
> things to them? They talk at you and in their mind you have nothing to
> say.
>
> Which is extremely disrespectful.
>
Yeah I tried to point out that they thought the end of the world would occur
during WW1, but they said that the first founder was a demon. Yeah it does
get annoying when religious people have that attitude. I would have better
luck talking to a brick wall.
Seon Ferguson
"Christopher A. Lee" <ca...@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:s6mds5d3udjucd7iq...@4ax.com...
Yeah it is interesting to see why a grown man would believe in a place like
hell and that all non Christians will go there. Or that Satan exists and all
that other stuff. For me it was how I was raised but I'm not sure why
someone would convert when they weren't brought up that way. Lee Storbwel (a
Christian apologist) looked into that stuff because of his wife and that's a
reason many people converted and the Resurrection does have hope when you
read it but I don't know why else. It is a interesting topic.
> Another is "The Mind Of The Bible Believer" by Edmund Cohen. He's a
> secular Jew with a psychology education who was sucked into
> evangelical fundamentalism. When he recovered he analysed how he was
> sucked in and what kept him in it. It's a bit dry and I don't always
> agree with him but it is interesting reading.
>
> Eg he thinks Paul was a brilliant psychologist for his time and set up
> the mechanisms deliberately while I think they just evolved over time.
> IMO Paul wasn't that clever, as evidenced by his taking Epimenides'
> paradox seriously ("Everything a Cretan says is a lie. I am a
> Cretan").
>
He sounds good as well, hopefully the library carries atheist books.
fasgnadh
> This is for the gay troll who posted as me.
Who could possibly tell the difference between you and a gay troll?
What is atheism.. it's responsible for these crimes against humanity:
"Atheism is the natural and inseparable part of Communism."
-Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov (Lenin)
"Our program necessarily includes the propaganda of atheism."
- Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov (Lenin)
"How can you make a revolution without firing squads?"
- Lenin
"You know, they are fooling us, there is no God...
all this talk about God is sheer nonsense"
- Stalin
E. Yaroslavsky, Landmarks in the Life of Stalin,
Foreign Languages Publishing House, Moscow 1940
But it was not just the Atheism of the leadership,
but of the entire State apparatus;
The Atheist leadership's policies were implemented under
the Red Terror, via gulags and executions, the use of
every arm of the state for anti-religious propaganda
and the forced indoctrination of CHILDREN! B^[
"the state established atheism as the only scientific truth."
- Daniel Peris,
"Storming the Heavens: The Soviet League of the Militant Godless"
Cornell University Press 1998 ISBN 9780801434853
"Criticism of atheism was strictly forbidden"
"Between 1917 and 1940, 130,000 Orthodox priests were arrested.
In 1918, the Cheka under Felix Dzerzhinsky executed over
3000 Orthodox clergymen of all ranks.
Some were drowned in ice-holes or poured over with cold water
in winter until they turned to ice-pillars.
- John Shelton Curtis, The Russian Church and the Soviet State
(Boston: Little Brown, 1953)
> When bullies use those
> tactics I usually do the complete opposite of what they want.
Bullshit, you DEFEND those atheist thugs and killers, and try to pretend
that you can magically seperate their atheism from their policies of
FORCIBLY IMPOSING ATHEISM on CHILDREN!!!
You are a lunatic apologist for MASS MURDER, TORTURE and PERSECUTION
on an unprecedented scale!
> You see, I hate bullies.
Bullshit, you DEFEND the greatest atheist tyrants in history,
claiming, DESPITE THEIR EXPLICIT STATEMENTS THAT THEY ARE ATHEISTS,
IMPLEMENTING THE SAME ATHEIST anti-THEIST policies as your atheist
"Warlord" Steve Knight openly advocates.. with TOTAL SUPPORT
from the moral defectives in alt.atheism:
Atheist sociopaths continue to advocate sick psycho-sexual
ultra-violence against the white haired ladies of the church
guild and their cake stalls;
# From: Steve Knight <skni...@cox.net>
# Newsgroups: alt.atheism
# Subject: A.A. BAAWA - FAQ
# Message-ID: <p8mrb5lvaf0cj5bp1...@4ax.com>
# Date: Sat, 26 Sep 2009 02:46:34 -0700
#
# We kill theists and shit down their throats and
# not in a girly way.
#
# Warlord Steve
# BAAWA
Seon has NEVER condemned this atheist SpokesOrc, no atheists do! 8^o
Not satisfied with murder, Steve advocates the very
GENOCIDE which Pol Pot's atheist tyranny CARRIED OUT
in CAMBODIA;
# From: Steve Knight <skni...@cox.net>
# Newsgroups: alt.atheism,alt.religion.islam
# Subject: Re: Islam: the perfect religion and way of life for all
# Message-ID: <8t6ve5hs41qn3a2rv...@4ax.com>
# Date: Mon, 02 Nov 2009 18:58:18 -0800
#
# On Mon, 2 Nov 2009 21:22:32 +0200, "Katrina"
# <blondes_g...@yahoo.com> wrote:
#
# >Islam: the perfect religion and way of life for all
#
# It is the most foul, disgusting filth on Earth.
# The sooner we nuke you fuckers, the better.
#
# Warlord Steve
# BAAWA
The modern atheist threat:
http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:17475?context=latest
The reality of atheist regimes ACTUALLY carrying out the threat,
CRUCIFYING Christians in Cambodia;
http://www.lietuvos.net/istorija/communism/communism_photos2/44camboyano.jpg
> So expect more posts like this from me.
Sure, you are incapable of learning, and have no moral compass.
> Apologies to those
> from alt.atheism who don't wish to hear from me
But you will Babylon anyway! B^p
> but I had to copy and paste all the groups
It's all we expect from someone as
> Clueless
and
> cowardly
as you.
>
Of course most people there have plonked me
and more will now. I will help them bury you so the stink
doesn't remain in the nostrils of decent folk.
> I also hope to educate morons like fasgandh,
Is that why you have run from EVERY debate with me
and instead start cut an paste threads like this which have NOTHING
to do with me, or any of the arguments I have put to you and which you
could NOT ANSWER...showing what a dishonest, slandering liar you are,
unable to hold a coherent position on anything and then
becoming angry with those who show the world what a fool you are!
You are a little soook.. who runs off whining whenever your nose is
rubbed in your slander and lies.. and then you sulk and become more
embittered and fabricate new lies....
> oprem and u2fan who lie
> about atheism and say it is a religion.
Liar.. I say that ATHEISTS claim it is a religion, (and I present
EVIDENCE showing them doing just that...) and then they backflip.. B^D
because, like you, THEY HAVE NO COHERENT POSITION.. they
will simply SAY WHATEVER IT TAKES To FOOL PEOPLE;
# It's Official, Atheists claim to be a persecuted RELIGION: B^D
#
#
# "THE Atheist Foundation of Australia has lodged complaints
# of religious discrimination in Melbourne and Hobart
# after being refused permission to put atheist
# advertising on buses." - The Age 29/1/2009
#
# "atheism counts as a religion, though we say
# we're not one," Dr Perkins said."
but I say atheism lacks ANY of the positive, civilisation building
aspects of the great world religions.. the art, music, science,
culture and of coursethe progressive, free, pluralist MAJORITY RELIGIOUS
democratic societies that Seon and the other atheist hypocrites CHOOSE
TO LIVE IN!
What Seon does is AVOID and DENY what ATHEISTS themselves
say about atheism.. and offers us instead the FABRICATED WHITEWASH
of an irrelevant, sel-serving, THEORETICAL ABSTRACTAION.. a facade of
weasel words invented by atheists to DISTRACT from the historical truth
about their tyrannical regimes.. and the terror, torture and death that
characterises EVERY ATHEIST REGIME IN HISTORY!!!
> http://www.atheists.org/atheism/About_Atheism
> Atheism
> What is Atheism?
The most destructive ideology of the modern era, in the Union
of Savagage Slaughter and Repression, Mao's Great Leap Backward
and Cultural Devolution and Pol Pot's Atheist Genocide, the atheist
regimes killed over 70,000,000 people.. naturally, like the neo-Nazi's,
the atheists are in DENIAL about their holocausts.. death tolls FAR
greater than ANY RELIGION! 8^o
And it is THESE FACTS that the athests try to bury in post modern
propaganda lies.. the work of PR Spin doctors who think it is what
criminals SAY about themselves, not what THEY DO, that matters.
I show what atheists in history have REALLY done.. and they
give you a dictionary definition that is SIMPLY IRRELEVANT to REALITY!
BWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAA
Worlds most famous Atheists;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vCYo6GOIQeI
Of course, in an attempt to whitewash their past,
many atheists claim atheistic communism is a religion, SIMPLY
to give religion a bad name;
# From: the Fucking Boudha <voivo...@gmail.com>
# Newsgroups:
alt.atheism,aus.religion,alt.politics.republicans,alt.politics.democrats,soc.culture.cambodia
# Subject: Re: Lies that Old Communists tell - #1 Pol Pot, Atheist
Dictator,
# death toll: 1,700,000 people
# Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2009 17:55:56 -0800 (PST)
# Message-ID:
<b52a8f91-aa34-4634...@o40g2000prn.googlegroups.com>
#
#
# Communism is a religion .
So, clearly atheists will SAY ANYTHING, because their WORDS ARE
WORTHLESS.. compared to the reality of atheist tyranny.
Lenin admitted that atheism was "the natural and inseparable
part of Communism" but modern atheists will claim that
atheistic communism was a RELIGION! B^D Despite the reality
that htey persecuted all religions and IMPOSED forced education in
ATHEISM upon children! 8^o Atheist apologists for these regimes
do what the Church is guilty of.. A MASSIVE COVERUP!
EVERY atheist regime has been a totalitarian shithole..
Watch them run from the truth, watch them SNIP the UNDENIABLE
HISTORICAL FACTS about ATHEISM IN PRACTICE.. not the bullshit their
recruiters feed gullible adolescent dimwits like Seon..
# http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_atheism#Wolak2004
#
# "State atheism is the official promotion of atheism
# by a government, typically by active suppression of
# religious freedom and practice."
# - "Protest for Religious Rights in the USSR:
# Characteristics and Consequences,
# David Kowalewski,
# Russian Review, Vol. 39, No. 4 (Oct., 1980), pp. 426-441,
#
#
# "An atheist, Pol Pot suppressed Cambodia’s Buddhist religion:
# monks were defrocked; temples and artifacts, including statues of
# Buddha, were destroyed; and people praying or expressing
# other religious sentiments were often killed.
# ...the government emptied the cities through mass evacuations
# and sent people to the countryside. Cambodians were overworked
# and underfed on collective farms, often succumbing to disease or
# starvation as a result. Spouses were separated and family meals
# prohibited in order to steer loyalties toward the state
# instead of the family.
#
# About 1.7 million Cambodians, or about 20 percent of the population,
# were worked, starved, or beaten to death under Pol Pot’s regime."
# - http://encarta.msn.com/encyclopedia_761579038/pol_pot.html
#
# The Cambodian Genocide:
http://www.lietuvos.net/istorija/communism/communism_photos2/392millones.jpg
#
# "The country's 40,000 to 60,000 Buddhist monks,
# regarded by the regime as social parasites,
# were defrocked and forced into labor brigades.
# Many monks were executed; temples and pagodas were
# destroyed or turned into storehouses or jails.
# Images of the Buddha were defaced and dumped into
# rivers and lakes. People who were discovered praying
# or expressing religious sentiments in other ways
# were often killed.
#
# The Christian and Muslim communities were among the most
# persecuted, as well. The Roman Catholic cathedral of
# Phnom Penh was completely razed.
#
# The Khmer Rouge forced Muslims to eat pork, which they
# regard as an abomination. Many of those who refused were killed.
# Christian clergy and Muslim imams were executed."
# - http://countrystudies.us/cambodia/29.htm
#
# "Forty-eight percent of Cambodia's Christians were killed
# because of their religion."
#
http://www.lietuvos.net/istorija/communism/communism_photos2/44camboyano.jpg
#
#
# "the state established atheism as the only scientific truth."
# - Daniel Peris,
# "Storming the Heavens: The Soviet League of the Militant Godless"
# Cornell University Press 1998 ISBN 9780801434853
#
#
# "State atheism has been mostly implemented in communist
# countries, such as the former Soviet Union,[1] China,
# Communist Albania, Communist Afghanistan, North Korea,
# Communist Mongolia and Poland under communist rule also
# promoted state atheism and suppressed religion.
# - Forced out: the fate of Polish Jewry in Communist Poland.
# Wolak, Arthur J. p 104
#
# In these nations, the governments viewed atheism as an
# intrinsic part of communist ideology.
>
> "What is atheism?"
As we have seen, in EVERY atheist regime, atheism has been
a rabid, hate-filled anti-theist ideology responsible for the
terror, torture and death of over 70,000,000 people.. which,
when confronted with the historical reality.. says.. "No,
when we are cornered we pull out a definition we wrote for ourselves
which says we are nothing but a nice groups if effete doilie chrocheting
wimps who do nothing but not believe in something.. and we need a whole
newsgroup, bus ads, and books, militant action, theist killing
and shitting down their throats.. just to prove how harmless our beliefs
are"
> is usually the one question never asked of most atheists.
Becasue, as you and every atheist liar shows, THEY CAN'T BE TRUSTED..
Atheists are the MOST DISTRUSTED minority in the USA;
# Atheists Identified as America’s Most Distrusted Minority"
# - American Sociological Association, ASA NEWS
#
# "A survey by sociologists at the University of Minnesota
# found that atheists are “America’s most distrusted minority.”
#
# "From a telephone sampling of more than 2,000 households,
# university researchers found that Americans rate atheists
# below Muslims, recent immigrants, gays and lesbians and
# other minority groups in “sharing their vision of
# American society.”
#
# Atheists are also the minority group most Americans are
# least willing to allow their children to marry.
#
And when you see the immoral maggots threatening to kill theist men,
women and children and mutilate their bodies.. and DOING IT..
you can see why people shun them!
# Even though atheists are few in number, not formally
# organized and relatively hard to publicly identify,
# they are seen as a threat to the American way of life
# by a large portion of the American public.
#
# Many of the study’s respondents associated atheism with
# an array of moral indiscretions ranging from criminal
# behavior to rampant materialism and cultural elitism.
#
And sociopathic violence;
@ From: "John Fraser" <jfr...@ns.sympatico.ca>
@ Newsgroups: alt.religion.christian.pentecostal,alt.atheism
@ Subject: Merry Christmas
@ Date: Thu, 25 Dec 2008 10:21:03 -0400
@ Message-ID: <4953abb6$1$5460$9a56...@news.aliant.net>
@
@ Hello Folks;
@
@ I'd like to wish all of you a very Merry Christmas
@ and a safe holiday season. Phil 4:8.
@
@ Cheers,
@ John
@ From: Christopher A. Lee <ca...@optonline.net>
@ Newsgroups: alt.religion.christian.pentecostal,alt.atheism
@ Subject: Re: Merry Christmas
@ Date: Sat, 27 Dec 2008 16:24:01 -0500
@ Message-ID: <o07dl41sa4t4jhof3...@4ax.com>
@
@ "go fuck yourself with your crucifix in a drill chuck'.
# Edgell believes a fear of moral decline and resulting
# social disorder is behind the findings.
# “Americans believe they share more than rules and
# procedures with their fellow citizens—they share an
# understanding of right and wrong,” she said. “Our
# findings seem to rest on a view of atheists as
# self-interested individuals who are not concerned
# with the common good.”
And EVERY atheist regime shows that, and much worse, to be TRUE! 8^o
> dictionaries define atheism as "a belief that there is no God"
> and/or "denial of God."
And becasue they can't provide any EVIDENCE for their UNFOUNDED beliefs,
atheists try and argue they have none!!!
And then they put the bneliefs they claim not ot have on Bus ads
and write books propagandising them!!!! B^D
priceless
> Some dictionaries go further and say that
> atheism is "wickedness," "sinfulness," "heathenism," "paganism," and
> "immorality." Some dictionaries even say that atheism is the "doctrine
> that there is no God."
And no Blah Blah waffle blather can change the REALITY of atheist
tyrannies in history.. worse than paganism and barbarism.
>
> Man has invented many gods over the tens of thousands of years and the
> majority of them have fallen by the wayside in the scrapheap of
> mythology.
When atheists elevated their atheist ideals and their atheist tyrants
to the status of blind worship of IDOLS, they demonstrate that those
who the teachers of Love, Mercy and Compassion which inspired
the great and enduring civilisations.. create their own Hell here on
earth...
Atheism's Artistic Zenith;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NT3QuesXgQw&feature=related
"Mao Zedong Thought is the sun that forever shines"
Out of his big fat arse!!! B^D
Ahteists replaced God with an Idol, and suffered the consequences!
The Cultural Devolution:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DIrUHVFkm9A
Nth korean military parade
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iv7wMk9o
--
alt.atheism FAQ:
http://altatheismfaq.blogspot.com/
http://groups.google.com.au/group/alt.atheism/msg/7c0978c14fd4ed37?hl=en&dmode=source
"Atheism is the natural and inseparable part of Communism."
-Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov (Lenin)
http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:8295?context=latest
http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:8290?context=latest
"Our program necessarily includes the propaganda of atheism."
- Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov (Lenin)
http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:6348?context=latest
http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:17478?context=latest
"How can you make a revolution without firing squads?"
- Lenin
http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:17475?context=latest
http://www.c96trading.com/Nagant_NKVD_300h.jpg
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/telegraph/multimedia/archive/01001/Tsar-family_1001874c.jpg
Christopher A. Lee
wrote:
I don't think Strobel ever was atheist even though he says he was. He
uses many of the same fallacies Josh MacDowell does, and like
MacDowell claims it was these that turned him into a believer. For
example Lord/Liar/Lunatic as though there were no other options.
>> Another is "The Mind Of The Bible Believer" by Edmund Cohen. He's a
>> secular Jew with a psychology education who was sucked into
>> evangelical fundamentalism. When he recovered he analysed how he was
>> sucked in and what kept him in it. It's a bit dry and I don't always
>> agree with him but it is interesting reading.
>>
>> Eg he thinks Paul was a brilliant psychologist for his time and set up
>> the mechanisms deliberately while I think they just evolved over time.
>> IMO Paul wasn't that clever, as evidenced by his taking Epimenides'
>> paradox seriously ("Everything a Cretan says is a lie. I am a
>> Cretan").
>>
>He sounds good as well, hopefully the library carries atheist books.
A Dan Barker teaser to encourage readers to buy Losing Faith In Faith:
This is copied without permission from "Inaccurate conception", one of
his essays published in "Losing Faith in Faith"; any typos are my own:
[begin insert]
I thought I had understood the words atheism and agnosticism until I
embraced them both and discovered they are pregnant with significance.
In conversations with Christians I have found that most words need to
be carefully defined before we can have a meaningful dialog.
People are invariably surprised to hear me say I am both an atheist
and an agnostic. I usually reply with a question like, "Well, are you
a Republican or an American?" The two words serve different concepts
and are not mutually exclusive. Agnosticism describes knowledge in
general; atheism addresses belief in a god specifically.
....
One common fallacy about agnosticism is that it is a halfway house
between theism and atheism. It cannot be, since it performs in a
different arena and since the question, "Do you have a belief in a
god?" can only be answered with a yes or no. ("Maybe" or "I don't
know" are simply delays. They do not answer the question. A person who
deliberately avoids the issue in this manner should not be called
agnostic, but rather something like indecisive or unprepared. Of
course it is not dishonest to delay answering the question for want of
clarification of terms; but the question, when answered, can only
prompt a yes or no response).
....
It turns out the word atheism means much less that I had thought
[previously when he was theist]. It is merely the lack of theism. It
is not a philosophy of life and it offers no values. It betrays
nothing of morality or motives. In my case, becoming an atheist was a
positive move - the removal of the negative baggage of religious
fallacy. But that is rather like having a large debt cancelled. It has
brought me up to zero, to where my mind is free to think. Being a
freethinker is potentially quite positive. (See "What is a
freethinker? [another essay in the same book])
Basic atheism is not a belief. It is the lack of belief. There is a
difference between believing there is no god and not believing there
is a god - both are atheistic, though common usage has ignored the
latter. (George Smith, in Atheism: The Case Against God, examines this
distinction as the difference between "explicit" (or "critical" and
"implicit" atheism.) Atheism is the absence of belief in a god, or
gods, whether that absence is due to a critical rejection of theistic
assertions, to unfamiliarity with the subject (as with a baby, or a
non-theistic culture), or to noncommittal agnostic/skeptic principles.
If you have a belief in a god you are a theist, otherwise you are
atheist. Atheist and nontheist are the same word, though of course
they may carry a different stigma in today's society. Smith suggests
the term anti-theist for the small subset of atheists who positively
deny the existence of a god. Of course, most atheists will sometimes
speak of "denying" god, or state that "there is no god" informally; it
may not be unjustifiable to think of a "lack of belief in god" as a
relaxed "belief that there is no god" when repeated attempts to prove
theism continually fail. All of us agree that it is permissable to say
"there is no Santa Claus" even though such a statement can't be
proved. HOWEVER, EVEN THE ATHEISTS WHO "DENY" THE EXISTENCE OF A GOD
(WHICH I SOMETIMES DO IN CASUAL CONVERSATION), WILL HAVE TO BACK OFF
WHEN PRESSED AGAINST THE PHILOSOPHICAL WALL, AND ADMIT THAT A LACK OF
BELIEF IS NOT A BELIEF[my emphasis].
[end insert]
duke
wrote:
>People are invariably surprised to hear me say I am both an atheist
>and an agnostic. I usually reply with a question like, "Well, are you
>a Republican or an American?"
Not the same at all. An atheist denies even in face of the evidence, and an
agnostic is unsure because he doesn't find the evidence convincing one way or
the other.
>One common fallacy about agnosticism is that it is a halfway house
>between theism and atheism. It cannot be, since it performs in a
>different arena and since the question, "Do you have a belief in a
>god?" can only be answered with a yes or no. ("Maybe" or "I don't
>know" are simply delays. They do not answer the question.
That's because the agnostic has no answer. Theists and atheists have answers.
The Dukester, American-American
*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
*****
Mike Franklin
> On Thu, 15 Apr 2010 11:13:28 -0400, Christopher A. Lee <ca...@optonline.net>
> wrote:
>
> >People are invariably surprised to hear me say I am both an atheist
> >and an agnostic. I usually reply with a question like, "Well, are you
> >a Republican or an American?"
>
> Not the same at all. An atheist denies even in face of the evidence, and an
> agnostic is unsure because he doesn't find the evidence convincing one way or
> the other.
You can dispute the meanings of words if that's what interests you,
but you should be aware that to people who identify themselves as
atheists, and many others, those words don't mean what you say they
mean.
You can choose to communicate effectively with atheists, or you can
choose not to.
Mike
Don H
news:2XCxn.19477$pv.1...@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
# Yes, "fasgnadh", you've told us this, many times.
Anything new to say?
Incidentally, as scepticism, secularism, and science, increasingly
impacts on the human psyche, you gonna find lots more atheists, over time.
Built a bunker yet? Or, will it be 70,000,001?
Anyone met God lately?
Any god or goddess would do. Please!
===================================
There once was a Man who saw Red,
Evil Commos under the Bed.
God MUST exist,
Or we're in a fix!
(What of non-Commo atheist: Fred?)
====================================
Incidentally, it is reported that the Christian lobby is pressuring the
NSW govt to kill off NSW ethics classes, so they won't compete with
scripture classes. God is a vested interest; but irrelevant where morals
are concerned; ethics being social, and don't need a stern Old Man to
justify them.
=======================================
Larry
> That's yet another good point. That's why so many people are sexually
> hung up today. But I have no problem with self pleasure or sex before
> marriage, as long as it is safe. My attitude is as long as you wear
> protection.
>
>
Your religious conditioning is showing in this paragraph, which isn't
unusual at all. "Marriage" is a delusional religious state, completely.
It has been turned, by the tax bureaucrats, into a state institution,
but its roots are purely religious delusion based. One does not need
"permission" from the clerics or some non-existant sky pilot to breed
with the females. The turning away from religious dogma and its
subsequent rituals dooms the religious ritual of marriage, too.
Atheists who "marry" do so because they are forced to do so by the tax
advantages the state imposes, not for religious delusions.
The public's recent history of "promiscuity", another religious term
used to show the religious horrors of unmarried, unapproved-by-clergy
sex between multiple partners is a real indication of how religion's
grip on the people's minds is melting away. It has nothing to do with
morality as sex is a natural condition, not religious delusion.
--
"iPad is to computing what Etch-A-Sketch is to art!"
Larry
Larry
> Oh man if the children were just educated they wouldn't be afraid of
> sidewalks or silly superstitions. In fact I just got it, if they were
> educated that religion is just fairy tales then adults wouldn't be so
> messed up today and be so afraid of hell. I regret my upbringing (I
> had no say) but I am also proud that I have educated myself.
>
>
>
If the children were to become educated, religious delusion could be
irradicated from the planet in a single generation, along with
religions' wars, genocides, mass punishments and the horrible load the
clergys' bureaucrats are on the population of the planet. Money wasted
on religious delusion, today, could be spent educating and feeding the
starving masses to a much better outcome for us all.
Watching a cleric trying to indoctrinate an atheist child past 12 is
simply hilarious!....(c;]
Larry
> Also do you think adults who believe this stuff as well reinforces the
> beliefs? I mean when children grow out of believing in Santa our
> parents usually accept it (although my mum tried to get me to believe
> in him for a few years) and adults all agree that there is no Santa
> but with religion some adults still share the delusion and don't all
> agree that it is all make believe.
>
>
Approximately 110 million Americans never outgrow their believing in the
sky pilot. The marketing of religion makes the marketing of iPad look like
a kindergarten. Of course, religion has many years experience marketing a
product that never existed. They are professionals, don't try this at
home.
Larry
> It's pretty obvious that one of the reasons JWs, Mormons etc send out
> missionaries to people who tell them where to shove it, is to teach
> them how hostile the world is so when they return to the comfort of
> the community they won't want to leave it.
>
>
Excellent point, here. This is why the JWs sent out are always the
teenagers, who are at a very dangerous stage of beginning to question if
Santa isn't real why is the sky pilot. Any atheist confronted by the
Boys on Bikes really needs to take the time to invite both boys into
their world and ask the questions only atheists can ask about the
reality of the sky pilot and those hard questions christies cannot
answer, like why there is no civil records of their sky pilot's
existence.
Google is your friend when explaining this different view of reality to
Boys on Bikes. You'll never turn them in a couple of hours of
deprogramming, but you'll put that tiny little seed back there where the
cortex connects with the spinal cord so it can grow at its own pace.
Boys on Bikes also may return without their boyfriends-who-report-them-
to-the-clerics at a later time to ask more questions. NEVER slam the
door in their faces. You do atheism and your planet a great service if
only one of them can be kept from a life of religious delusion and
misery.
To protect yourself, by the way, if you have time to setup even the most
rudimentary webcam, record every minute of every encounter to show the
court when the kid's parents and the cops are barging into your living
room to accuse you of raping him up the ass. Let them arrest you and
put you through the entire process, if you can. An atheist friend got
an out of court settlement from both the local government and the
church, a substantial sum after trying to ruin his reputation with these
false arrests. He doesn't HAVE to get up at 6AM to head off to the salt
mines any more.....not a bad position to be in in 2010.
Larry
ca72c8...@b23g2000yqn.googlegroups.com:
> I am told (by theist and atheist alike) that cannot be a religion
> because it doesn't contain enough bullshit.
> I dont think that's fair.
>
>
My beer went down the wrong pipe reading this. I coughed and nearly choked
to death while laughing and holding my stomach. Sure glad I'd set that mug
down before opening your post! Another 99 cent thrift shop keyboard
destroyed on usenet.
Thanks!
Larry
> it's like refuting the stork theory of obstetrics.
>
Fantastic point. Like my new tagline?
--
Creationism is to science what storks are to obstetrics.
Larry
Xan Du
> Christopher A. Lee <ca...@optonline.net> wrote in
> news:clids5lu5v4jio65p...@4ax.com:
>
>> It's pretty obvious that one of the reasons JWs, Mormons etc send out
>> missionaries to people who tell them where to shove it, is to teach
>> them how hostile the world is so when they return to the comfort of
>> the community they won't want to leave it.
>>
>>
>
> Excellent point, here. This is why the JWs sent out are always the
> teenagers, who are at a very dangerous stage of beginning to question if
> Santa isn't real why is the sky pilot.
No no no, that would be us Mormons. Most of the JWs I've seen out and
about or knocking on my door have been married couples. Once it was a
father and his very good looking daughter. I thought about inviting
just her in, but decided that would be too much of an impropriety.
One time when I was the lad on a bike my teenage companion and I were
knocking on doors on one side of the street and passed a JW couple going
down the other side. Today, I feel sorry for that neighborhood on that
particular day.
> Any atheist confronted by the
> Boys on Bikes really needs to take the time to invite both boys into
> their world and ask the questions only atheists can ask about the
> reality of the sky pilot and those hard questions christies cannot
> answer, like why there is no civil records of their sky pilot's
> existence.
>
> Google is your friend when explaining this different view of reality to
> Boys on Bikes. You'll never turn them in a couple of hours of
> deprogramming, but you'll put that tiny little seed back there where the
> cortex connects with the spinal cord so it can grow at its own pace.
> Boys on Bikes also may return without their boyfriends-who-report-them-
> to-the-clerics at a later time to ask more questions. NEVER slam the
> door in their faces. You do atheism and your planet a great service if
> only one of them can be kept from a life of religious delusion and
> misery.
Yes well several experiences on my mission had that effect. It may not
always work, but there's a chance it just might.
> To protect yourself, by the way, if you have time to setup even the most
> rudimentary webcam, record every minute of every encounter to show the
> court when the kid's parents and the cops are barging into your living
> room to accuse you of raping him up the ass.
Thaaaaaat's a little out of the realm of my experience.
> Let them arrest you and
> put you through the entire process, if you can. An atheist friend got
> an out of court settlement from both the local government and the
> church, a substantial sum after trying to ruin his reputation with these
> false arrests. He doesn't HAVE to get up at 6AM to head off to the salt
> mines any more.....not a bad position to be in in 2010.
Quite a story I must say.
-Xan
Larry
> He sounds good as well, hopefully the library carries atheist books.
>
>
Our library didn't used to, until I complained to the Federal funding
agency these titles:
(list of atheist titles)
were missing from the stacks.
They have them all now! Dawkins' books have had to be replaced a couple of
times as they get all dog eared so many have read them.
The Freedom of Information Act is such a wonderful document.....(c;]
Larry
news:f2ies5pp33p7t8du3...@4ax.com:
> An atheist denies even in face of the evidence
As there is not one shred of real evidence, just words, words, and more
words trying to explain it all away, an atheist cannot "denies even in the
face of evidence" where no evidence ever existed....except in the minds of
delusional theists.
Christopher A. Lee
>"Seon Ferguson" <seo...@gmail.com> wrote in
>news:-cidneIohvRs4FvW...@westnet.com.au:
>
>> Oh man if the children were just educated they wouldn't be afraid of
>> sidewalks or silly superstitions. In fact I just got it, if they were
>> educated that religion is just fairy tales then adults wouldn't be so
>> messed up today and be so afraid of hell. I regret my upbringing (I
>> had no say) but I am also proud that I have educated myself.
>
>If the children were to become educated, religious delusion could be
>irradicated from the planet in a single generation, along with
>religions' wars, genocides, mass punishments and the horrible load the
>clergys' bureaucrats are on the population of the planet. Money wasted
>on religious delusion, today, could be spent educating and feeding the
>starving masses to a much better outcome for us all.
It wouln't eradicate it, merely de-fang it. It has survived for a
verylong time by adapting, and would become more cultural than
absolute. Eg even secular Jews have Bar Mitzvahs etc,
>Watching a cleric trying to indoctrinate an atheist child past 12 is
>simply hilarious!....(c;]
Or younger, after he has learned to think for him/herself
panam...@hotmail.com
> On Wed, 14 Apr 2010 19:59:41 -0700 (PDT), panamfl...@hotmail.com
> wrote:
>
> >On Apr 13, 7:59 pm, "Seon Ferguson" <seo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> Your right I was a fool, you can post all the evidence that atheism is not a
> >> religion and they will still post their lies.
>
> >Over the years, I've discovered that you can't "reason" someone out of
> >a position they hold for emotional reasons.
>
> Or vice versa.
True, that. I think that's why I hate all their little "Jeezuz helbd
me git owf drugz" stories. <g>
-Panama Floyd, Atlanta.
aa#2015/Member, Knights of BAAWA!
Seon Ferguson
"Larry" <no...@home.com> wrote in message
news:Xns9D5BB74F210...@74.209.131.13...
Of course but that doesn't matter to the masses who refuse to think for
themselves, plus the fact that the Vatican had so much power until a few
hundred years ago couldn't help matters.
Seon Ferguson
"Larry" <no...@home.com> wrote in message
news:Xns9D5BB64AC38...@74.209.131.13...
> "Seon Ferguson" <seo...@gmail.com> wrote in
> news:-cidneIohvRs4FvW...@westnet.com.au:
>
>> Oh man if the children were just educated they wouldn't be afraid of
>> sidewalks or silly superstitions. In fact I just got it, if they were
>> educated that religion is just fairy tales then adults wouldn't be so
>> messed up today and be so afraid of hell. I regret my upbringing (I
>> had no say) but I am also proud that I have educated myself.
>>
>>
>>
>
> If the children were to become educated, religious delusion could be
> irradicated from the planet in a single generation, along with
> religions' wars, genocides, mass punishments and the horrible load the
> clergys' bureaucrats are on the population of the planet. Money wasted
> on religious delusion, today, could be spent educating and feeding the
> starving masses to a much better outcome for us all.
>
That is indeed a terrific thought. But have you seen the movie "Jesus Camp"
not everyone will be able to be educated. But we cans till educate most
people so the religious fundies will just be a minority. Imagine there's no
heaven, easy if you try...
Seon Ferguson
"Christopher A. Lee" <ca...@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:an6fs5tjium3qqm43...@4ax.com...
Yeah it's sad that some children are actually more intelligent than some
grown men.
Seon Ferguson
"Larry" <no...@home.com> wrote in message
news:Xns9D5BB55712...@74.209.131.13...
Maybe it is but I guess I'm just old fashion. I still dream of one day
falling in love with a woman, getting married and staring a family. But if I
fall in love with a woman I will have no problem expressing my love to her
without being married if you know what I mean.
Seon Ferguson
"Larry" <no...@home.com> wrote in message
news:Xns9D5BBC99BE5...@74.209.131.13...
> "Seon Ferguson" <seo...@gmail.com> wrote in
> news:ooadncfuI_kEe1vW...@westnet.com.au:
>
>> He sounds good as well, hopefully the library carries atheist books.
>>
>>
>
> Our library didn't used to, until I complained to the Federal funding
> agency these titles:
> (list of atheist titles)
> were missing from the stacks.
>
> They have them all now! Dawkins' books have had to be replaced a couple
> of
> times as they get all dog eared so many have read them.
>
> The Freedom of Information Act is such a wonderful document.....(c;]
>
Good work maybe I should do the same. It's sad that some libraries don't
carry Darwin's work, every child should study it.
Seon Ferguson
"duke" <duckg...@cox.net> wrote in message
news:f2ies5pp33p7t8du3...@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 15 Apr 2010 11:13:28 -0400, Christopher A. Lee
> <ca...@optonline.net>
> wrote:
>
>>People are invariably surprised to hear me say I am both an atheist
>>and an agnostic. I usually reply with a question like, "Well, are you
>>a Republican or an American?"
>
> Not the same at all. An atheist denies even in face of the evidence, and
> an
> agnostic is unsure because he doesn't find the evidence convincing one way
> or
> the other.
>
What evidence?
>>One common fallacy about agnosticism is that it is a halfway house
>>between theism and atheism. It cannot be, since it performs in a
>>different arena and since the question, "Do you have a belief in a
>>god?" can only be answered with a yes or no. ("Maybe" or "I don't
>>know" are simply delays. They do not answer the question.
>
> That's because the agnostic has no answer. Theists and atheists have
> answers.
>
The agnostics answer is we can't know for sure...And they have a point.
Larry
> Maybe it is but I guess I'm just old fashion. I still dream of one day
> falling in love with a woman, getting married and staring a family.
> But if I fall in love with a woman I will have no problem expressing
> my love to her without being married if you know what I mean.
>
>
I was married, by the Catholic Church, to a raven-haired Hungarian
lineage beauty from New Jersey for 17 years. The last 10 we stayed
together until her daughter, whos father committed suicide just after
dropping her off back with us, graduated high school. It was a strain
towards the end but we still talk to each other, though we live 100
miles apart.
If you find the "right one", you are lucky indeed. If you set the
standard too high, you'll never have any. I'll pass on my fellow
shipyard workers' wedding present to you.
Buy a large, empty 5-gallon water jug and 5 bags of ordinary glass
marbles at any Walmart. During the first year of your marriage, every
time you make love to her, drop a marble into that jug. On your first
anniversary, reverse the process taking one marble out each time.
You'll never empty that damned jug. I tried, I really did!
Larry
> Good work maybe I should do the same. It's sad that some libraries
don't
> carry Darwin's work, every child should study it.
>
>
Thank you. I'm doing another project at the moment. We have a new
"magnet science middle school" for the puberty gang not far from home.
I've been snooping around just to make sure we're teaching SCIENCE, not
Creationism or other fundie delusional nonsense, to the kids.
After befriending the biology teacher, she's trying to get the
educrats' permissions lined up so I can make a "small donation" of a
dinosaur bone from a collection at a large university I happen to know
the atheist biology professor of, to the school. When my prof friend
agreed, we had a chuckle that the bone should be too big to store in any
storeroom, preventing the school creationists from hiding it, and only
"loan" it to the school so they cannot destroy it to hide the
"evidence", if it comes to that.
The bone is too big to fit in the biology room, so we're planning, to
the delight of the teacher, on making a sort of hall seat the kids can
crawl over outside the biology lab door...a permanent, display of some
seating function for new teens to slouch on while thinking "dinosaur"
and "science", even if only subconciously.
"Permission" has been a bit elusive, so far, but we're pressing on. At
this questioning age, I want them to all remember leaning against the
REAL DINO back in middle school when they're being fed a line of crap
later on in life. "Earth CAN'T be 6000 years old! I've sat on a bone
that's millions of years old!"
I do need to see if the school library has the appropriate atheist books
for middle schoolers in it......hmmmm
Seon Ferguson
"Larry" <no...@home.com> wrote in message
news:Xns9D5BDF04C2B...@74.209.131.13...
Wow a lingerie model, I don't think I'll be that lucky but I still hope I
meet the right lady. I won't set my standards high as long as we love each
other. I'm sorry it didn't work out though a divorce would be tough. I can't
blame you for not wanting to be married.
Seon Ferguson
"Larry" <no...@home.com> wrote in message
news:Xns9D5BE097F71...@74.209.131.13...
> "Seon Ferguson" <seo...@gmail.com> wrote in
> news:wZednbfU6oQuM1rW...@westnet.com.au:
>
>> Good work maybe I should do the same. It's sad that some libraries
> don't
>> carry Darwin's work, every child should study it.
>>
>>
>
> Thank you. I'm doing another project at the moment. We have a new
> "magnet science middle school" for the puberty gang not far from home.
> I've been snooping around just to make sure we're teaching SCIENCE, not
> Creationism or other fundie delusional nonsense, to the kids.
>
Good, I wish they were more teachers like you. Call me old fashion but I
think children should be taught SCIENCE in a science lab. .
> After befriending the biology teacher, she's trying to get the
> educrats' permissions lined up so I can make a "small donation" of a
> dinosaur bone from a collection at a large university I happen to know
> the atheist biology professor of, to the school. When my prof friend
> agreed, we had a chuckle that the bone should be too big to store in any
> storeroom, preventing the school creationists from hiding it, and only
> "loan" it to the school so they cannot destroy it to hide the
> "evidence", if it comes to that.
>
> The bone is too big to fit in the biology room, so we're planning, to
> the delight of the teacher, on making a sort of hall seat the kids can
> crawl over outside the biology lab door...a permanent, display of some
> seating function for new teens to slouch on while thinking "dinosaur"
> and "science", even if only subconciously.
>
> "Permission" has been a bit elusive, so far, but we're pressing on. At
> this questioning age, I want them to all remember leaning against the
> REAL DINO back in middle school when they're being fed a line of crap
> later on in life. "Earth CAN'T be 6000 years old! I've sat on a bone
> that's millions of years old!"
>
> I do need to see if the school library has the appropriate atheist books
> for middle schoolers in it......hmmmm
>
>
>
Cool my school never had Dinosaur bones. One reason I love Dinosaurs, apart
from how they were so huge and so diverse, is that they disprove the YEC. I
like how they try to explain them away and go "Well Dinosaurs could have
lived with humans" but everyone knows they lived for millions of years. So
yeah keep teaching kids about Dinosaurs, oh and I hope your school has a
good history program because I am also a history fan and realise ancient
Egypt lasted for more than 10,000 years. And then there was another lesser
known Sumarian empire (I probably got that name mixed up) they have tablets
and stuff...
Seon Ferguson
"Christopher A. Lee" <ca...@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:pmaes55g1bkna559s...@4ax.com...
I don't know about that, I have changed my religion so many times it feels
as though my head is spinning. So it is possible that he was an atheist.
Maybe he was just a theist. You do have a point about the lord/liar/lunatic
argument is a bad one. They are plenty of other alternatives like he didn't
exist, the new testament was edited later on, he was misquoted and I am sure
they are more.
>>> Another is "The Mind Of The Bible Believer" by Edmund Cohen. He's a
>>> secular Jew with a psychology education who was sucked into
>>> evangelical fundamentalism. When he recovered he analysed how he was
>>> sucked in and what kept him in it. It's a bit dry and I don't always
>>> agree with him but it is interesting reading.
>>>
>>> Eg he thinks Paul was a brilliant psychologist for his time and set up
>>> the mechanisms deliberately while I think they just evolved over time.
>>> IMO Paul wasn't that clever, as evidenced by his taking Epimenides'
>>> paradox seriously ("Everything a Cretan says is a lie. I am a
>>> Cretan").
>>>
>>He sounds good as well, hopefully the library carries atheist books.
>
> A Dan Barker teaser to encourage readers to buy Losing Faith In Faith:
>
This guy sounds very indigent. He's right so many people think the only
choices are there is no God or there is a God. But I don't think we can know
for sure until the day we die And if atheists are right then we'll have
nothing to worry about because we won't survive anyway.
Larry
> I hope your school has a
> good history program because I am also a history fan and realise
> ancient Egypt lasted for more than 10,000 years. And then there was
> another lesser known Sumarian empire (I probably got that name mixed
> up) they have tablets and stuff...
>
I understand American history is being re-written, now, to make it more PC
and "less offensive". I'm not sure what that means.
Xan Du
> "Seon Ferguson" <seo...@gmail.com> wrote in
> news:v7KdnUjCir_XT1rW...@westnet.com.au:
>
>> I hope your school has a
>> good history program because I am also a history fan and realise
>> ancient Egypt lasted for more than 10,000 years. And then there was
>> another lesser known Sumarian empire (I probably got that name mixed
>> up) they have tablets and stuff...
>>
>
> I understand American history is being re-written, now, to make it more PC
> and "less offensive". I'm not sure what that means.
The continent was empty when we got here.
-Xan
Larry
> And if atheists are right then we'll have
> nothing to worry about because we won't survive anyway.
>
Just think of the billions of people, in the last 2010 years, who have
lived horribly dead lives of penance and poverty because of the religious
delusions forced upon them as children. People living in fear might as
well be dead.
Once you throw off the chains of theism, you can begin to enjoy the only
life you're going to ever have, without those horrible inhibitions the
clergy imposes on YOU but NOT THEMSELVES.
The Chief Instigator
You might could consider that the continent was already inhabited when
Columbus arrived in CE 1492.
--
Patrick L. "The Chief Instigator" Humphrey (pat...@io.com) Houston, Texas
www.io.com/~patrick/aeros.php (TCI's 2009-10 Houston Aeros) AA#2273
LAST GAME: San Antonio 3, Houston 2 (April 11)
NEXT GAME: The 2010-11 opener, in October 2010
Xan Du
> On Thu, 15 Apr 2010 23:50:37 -0400, Xan Du <xan...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> Larry wrote:
>>> "Seon Ferguson" <seo...@gmail.com> wrote in
>>> news:v7KdnUjCir_XT1rW...@westnet.com.au:
>>>
>>>> I hope your school has a
>>>> good history program because I am also a history fan and realise
>>>> ancient Egypt lasted for more than 10,000 years. And then there was
>>>> another lesser known Sumarian empire (I probably got that name mixed
>>>> up) they have tablets and stuff...
>>>>
>>> I understand American history is being re-written, now, to make it more PC
>>> and "less offensive". I'm not sure what that means.
>> The continent was empty when we got here.
>>
>> -Xan
>
> You might could consider that the continent was already inhabited when
> Columbus arrived in CE 1492.
>
-Xan
Seon Ferguson
"Larry" <no...@home.com> wrote in message
news:Xns9D5BF31FEEF...@74.209.131.13...
Well I've thrown off the chains of religion, that's a start. And also think
of how many people were murdered by the Crusaders, or burnt to death at the
stake, or who were murdered by the Inquisition. All that happened because of
religion. Without religion the murderers would have had no motive. Oh yeah
and think of how many children have been molested by priests and how many
times the Vatican covered that up because the priest repented. If it wasn't
for religion those priests would be behind bars, where they belong.
Seon Ferguson
"Larry" <no...@home.com> wrote in message
news:Xns9D5BF25CDE2...@74.209.131.13...
> "Seon Ferguson" <seo...@gmail.com> wrote in
> news:v7KdnUjCir_XT1rW...@westnet.com.au:
>
>> I hope your school has a
>> good history program because I am also a history fan and realise
>> ancient Egypt lasted for more than 10,000 years. And then there was
>> another lesser known Sumarian empire (I probably got that name mixed
>> up) they have tablets and stuff...
>>
>
> I understand American history is being re-written, now, to make it more PC
> and "less offensive". I'm not sure what that means.
>
>
I'm sure it means trouble. I heard that kids aren't even taught about your
founding fathers anymore, is that true?
TehGhodTrole
> Just think of the billions of people, in the last 2010 years, who have
> lived horribly dead lives of penance and poverty because of the
> religious delusions forced upon them as children. People living in fear
> might as well be dead.
>
> Once you throw off the chains of theis<BITCHSLAP>
You have conflated organised religion with theism, you brain-dead good
for nothing atheist cuntplug.
--
TehGhodTrole: Trolling, for God's sake.
Larry
> I'm sure it means trouble. I heard that kids aren't even taught about
> your founding fathers anymore, is that true?
>
>
Some "founding fathers" are "undesirable" by the right wing fundies in
power. Some of them were atheists or at least agnostics. We can't
teach children that about Thomas Jefferson, can we? How awful. Some
others, "terrorists" by today's standard, like Thomas Paine, wrote anti-
church blasphemes like "Age of Reason" in 1795. You'll see references
to his works against religion in public and church schools OVER THEIR
COLD, DEAD BODIES!
http://www.infidels.org/library/historical/thomas_paine/age_of_reason/
"All national institutions of churches, whether Jewish, Christian, or
Turkish, appear to me no other than human inventions set up to terrify
and enslave mankind, and monopolize power and profit."
Imagine teaching that to the middle schoolers in a Baptist Church
School! Pfat Chance!
Larry
> Well I've thrown off the chains of religion, that's a start. And also
> think of how many people were murdered by the Crusaders, or burnt to
> death at the stake, or who were murdered by the Inquisition. All that
> happened because of religion. Without religion the murderers would
> have had no motive. Oh yeah and think of how many children have been
> molested by priests and how many times the Vatican covered that up
> because the priest repented. If it wasn't for religion those priests
> would be behind bars, where they belong.
>
>
These murders are still going on, worldwide. America's warrior class is
under control of Zionists murdering men, woman and children in at least
two Muslim countries, Iraq and Afghanistan, at the hands of the Zionist
Jews in control of our Government by AIPAC.
It's why most of the world hates us and wants us destroyed....acts of
frustration at being attacked. Only the incredibly stupid cannot see it
happening, daily. Not a single Iraqi man, woman or little kid ever
attacked me or my country. Why am I attacking them?.....Because WE are
not in control of THE BEAST in the District of Columbia.
Seon Ferguson
"Larry" <no...@home.com> wrote in message
news:Xns9D5C826C04F...@74.209.131.13...
Yeah true and some were actually Deists. But another motive could be when
you learn about the founding fathers you become educated on the
Constitution. I may not be an American but American history still fascinates
me. They may not have all been Christian but they still agreed with freedom
of religion. I wish more people could be like that. I also wish people would
be like that with atheists and be like they might not agree with you but at
least atheists are entitled to free speech as well.
Seon Ferguson
"Larry" <no...@home.com> wrote in message
news:Xns9D5C837F46D...@74.209.131.13...
> "Seon Ferguson" <seo...@gmail.com> wrote in
> news:Jbednb2hDINnZVrW...@westnet.com.au:
>
>> Well I've thrown off the chains of religion, that's a start. And also
>> think of how many people were murdered by the Crusaders, or burnt to
>> death at the stake, or who were murdered by the Inquisition. All that
>> happened because of religion. Without religion the murderers would
>> have had no motive. Oh yeah and think of how many children have been
>> molested by priests and how many times the Vatican covered that up
>> because the priest repented. If it wasn't for religion those priests
>> would be behind bars, where they belong.
>>
>>
>
> These murders are still going on, worldwide. America's warrior class is
> under control of Zionists murdering men, woman and children in at least
> two Muslim countries, Iraq and Afghanistan, at the hands of the Zionist
> Jews in control of our Government by AIPAC.
>
What's worse is America actually supplies Israel with the weapons.
> It's why most of the world hates us and wants us destroyed....acts of
> frustration at being attacked. Only the incredibly stupid cannot see it
> happening, daily. Not a single Iraqi man, woman or little kid ever
> attacked me or my country. Why am I attacking them?.....Because WE are
> not in control of THE BEAST in the District of Columbia.
>
Yep plus you would get in bed with any dictator as long as he is "the enemy
of a enemy" if I lived there I would support cutting most foreign aid and
support pulling all the troops out. Did you know you still have troops in
countries which you aren't at war with? But I still have a favorable opinion
of America, they are politicians and people who want to end the corruption.
Larry
> Yeah true and some were actually Deists. But another motive could be
> when you learn about the founding fathers you become educated on the
> Constitution. I may not be an American but American history still
> fascinates me. They may not have all been Christian but they still
> agreed with freedom of religion. I wish more people could be like
> that. I also wish people would be like that with atheists and be like
> they might not agree with you but at least atheists are entitled to
> free speech as well.
>
>
The �religion� of the founding fathers was much more FREEMASON than any
of the Big Three theologies. The district of Columbia was designed by
Freemasons to be the center of the New World Order LONG before it had
that name. They are deadly serious about it.
I�m always baffled about Freemasons who are also Christians. It�s an
oxymoron.
Seon Ferguson
"Larry" <no...@home.com> wrote in message
news:Xns9D5CD6F54D1...@74.209.131.13...
I know a Freemason who is Christian and we have had many religious debates.
There's no way he'd fake it, but he is a low level Freemason. Freemasons
accept that the 3 major western religions, Judaism, Christianity and Islam,
are different paths to God and they have a Torah, Bible and Koran in their
chambers. That's probably why Christians lie and say they are anti
Christian. Plus I haven't heard of any Satanic Freemason rituals, unlike the
Bohemian club or the Skull and Bones. Now those are secret societies which
have rituals we should be concerned about and world leaders attend them. Of
course Molleck or Satan doesn't exist but these people believe in them.
sto...@teranews.com
>
>
> <sto...@teranews.com> wrote in message
> news:GV5xn.53790$Ht4....@newsfe20.iad...
>> Seon Ferguson wrote:
>>
>>> This is for the gay troll who posted as me. When bullies use those
>>> tactics I
>>> usually do the complete opposite of what they want. You see, I hate
>>> bullies.
>>> So expect more posts like this from me. Apologies to those from
>>> alt.atheism
>>> who don't wish to hear from me but I had to copy and paste all the groups
>>> from the "Ignorant Jerkwad Sarah Palin Totally Clueless About Science"
>>> thread incase the cowardly gay man was lurking in alt.atheism. Of course
>>> most people there have plonked me so I probably shouldn't appologise as
>>> they
>>> won't read this anyway *breaths* so enjoy.
>>>
>>> I also hope to educate morons like fasgandh, oprem and u2fan who lie
>>> about
>>> atheism and say it is a religion.
>>
>> Ilk such as those mouth breathers aren't able to be educated.
>
> Your right I was a fool, you can post all the evidence that atheism is not a
> religion and they will still post their lies.
I didn't say you were a fool. Long ago I indicated superstition was a
bitch virus not easily eliminated. Namely due to emotion-in the
main-fear. I, and others, indicated it would advance then retreat then
advance and retreat. How, where, when, and to what degree the cycle
repeats is an individual one.
High fear levels knock out the rational brain areas. You, yourself,
demonstrated this in many nasty responses to me which avoided points
which had to be repeated, and were acknowledged in the past.
Logic and reason do not apply in areas where the driver(s) are
emotional.
Personally, a person's superstition is their business unless they expect
me to pay attention to it. Then they can kiss my ass.
Don't know if you've seen it but there's a text and a video by Jim Huber
called; "Kissing Hank's Ass" on the net. Quite amusing. Sums up
Christianity perfectly.
sto...@teranews.com
>
>
> "Christopher A. Lee" <ca...@optonline.net> wrote in message
> news:6lubs59ag8elht6jh...@4ax.com...
>> On Wed, 14 Apr 2010 17:14:20 +0000, Larry <no...@home.com> wrote:
>>
>>>"Seon Ferguson" <seo...@gmail.com> wrote in
>>>news:vMidnS4oq6EIolnW...@westnet.com.au:
>>>
>>>> Why are you atheists?
>>>>
>>>> There are many reasons why people become atheists.
>>>
>>>Your text was great right up to this point. People don't "become"
>>>atheists. All humans were BORN atheists and "became", because of
>>>religious brainwashing from a very young age, some kind of believer in
>>>Santa Claus, Jesus Christ, Yahweh or some other mythical being that
>>>never existed.
>>>
>>>Any child who is NOT exposed to the religious delusions of their parents
>>>and fed lies as "facts" all his/her life REMAINS an atheist, as they
>>>were born, until someone convinces them otherwise. This is why the
>>>"sales department" of any religion or cult is always the largest
>>>department of the business. Unless, as we see ad nauseum on
>>>alt.atheism, there is a CONSTANT recurrance of the sales program, humans
>>>revert back to their natural atheist state of disbelief in supernatural
>>>nonsense.
>>
>> Sean (and a few others here) don't seem to understand this even though
>> several of us have offered ourselves as examples. It's actually pretty
>> common in the less religious countries.
>>
>> The day you encounter theists for the first time, the only thing that
>> happens is the existence of theists gets added to your life
>> experience. Your state of not believing hasn't changed - you are now
>> aware that some people believe something you don't. And after that it
>> is hard to take them seriously about anything else.
>
> Actually after reading Richard Dawkins and listening to Christopher Hitchens
> clips on you tube I am inclined to agree. A child is born with no beliefs.
An infant has sensors and instincts. It does have the precursors to
language in its cries. There are lacks of beliefs and knowledge.
> It is their childhood that determines their beliefs. It is their parents who
> effect their belief system. And that is why religion is so hard to escape
> from.
By deliberate and malevolent design. A cleric once said {paraphrased};
"Give us a boy before he is seven and he will not stray from the path
set upon."
> When it has been shoved down your throat your entire childhood then
> you get messed up as an adult.
It takes many many years and much work to eliminate the viral
programming. I suspect many attempt and very few succeed.
> That is why I think it is a form of child
> abuse and what's worse is the abusers think they are doing the right thing.
And parents do believe they are doing the right thing.
> All thanks to religion.
No. Thanks to Stone/Bronze age superstition. Its no different than the
proverbial Hollywood Witch Doctor. The 'religion' designation makes the
outhouse outflow smell like roses, if you have faith.
sto...@teranews.com
>
>
> "Christopher A. Lee" <ca...@optonline.net> wrote in message
> news:oqucs5d617094troe...@4ax.com...
[]
> Yeah good point as I said evolution has made it so children are so trusting
> of their parents, which is a good thing because otherwise when you told not
> to cross the road without looking you would want to see for yourself. And
> yeah church doesn't help matters and if a child goes to church once a week
> it will be reinforced.
And when you pray five times per day?
> Also do you think adults who believe this stuff as well reinforces the
> beliefs?
Certainly. Lead by example. Empirically no different than looking both
ways before crossing the street.
>I mean when children grow out of believing in Santa our parents
> usually accept it (although my mum tried to get me to believe in him for a
> few years) and adults all agree that there is no Santa but with religion
> some adults still share the delusion and don't all agree that it is all make
> believe.
Deity is the Santa Claus/Father Christmas/Baba Yaga/Other for adults.
sto...@teranews.com
> "Seon Ferguson" <seo...@gmail.com> wrote in
> news:WMednTIKE4SxD1vW...@westnet.com.au:
>
>> Also do you think adults who believe this stuff as well reinforces the
>> beliefs? I mean when children grow out of believing in Santa our
>> parents usually accept it (although my mum tried to get me to believe
>> in him for a few years) and adults all agree that there is no Santa
>> but with religion some adults still share the delusion and don't all
>> agree that it is all make believe.
>>
>>
>
> Approximately 110 million Americans never outgrow their believing in the
> sky pilot. The marketing of religion makes the marketing of iPad look like
> a kindergarten. Of course, religion has many years experience marketing a
> product that never existed. They are professionals, don't try this at
> home.
Or switch sky pilots once, or more times. Some even 'roll their own.'
sto...@teranews.com
>
>
> "Larry" <no...@home.com> wrote in message
> news:Xns9D5BB74F210...@74.209.131.13...
> Of course but that doesn't matter to the masses who refuse to think for
> themselves, plus the fact that the Vatican had so much power until a few
> hundred years ago couldn't help matters.
Thinking is hard work and what if you make a mistake?
/cue horrified look
Larry
$K81.1...@newsfe18.iad:
> Or switch sky pilots once, or more times. Some even 'roll their own.'
>
>
>
It's the same sky pilot, just a different delivery airline.
sto...@teranews.com
>
>
> "Christopher A. Lee" <ca...@optonline.net> wrote in message
> news:clids5lu5v4jio65p...@4ax.com...
>> On Thu, 15 Apr 2010 14:12:25 +1000, "Seon Ferguson" <seo...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
[]
>> A community of serious theists is self-reinforcing.
>>
>> Things like daily prayer, Bible reading etc. The immediate community
>> is the family.
>>
>> It's pretty obvious that one of the reasons JWs, Mormons etc send out
>> missionaries to people who tell them where to shove it, is to teach
>> them how hostile the world is so when they return to the comfort of
>> the community they won't want to leave it.
>>
> When your going to tell people what to believe of course people are going to
> tell them to shove it. But then the believers will take this as a sign of
> "Persecution"
Another of their delusions, of course.
> Maybe next time a JW or Mormon knocks on my door I should
> explain tot hem I respect their freedom of religion but I don't believe in
> myths.
In their case, its piss poor fiction barely a century old.
Respect is a two way street. Why should you show them any when they're
showing you nothing but contempt?
>> Having their own meanings for words has the same effect. It leads to
>> mutual frustration rather like the Monty Python Hungarian phrase book.
>> Somebody bringing up the subject and insisting on non-standard
>> meanings themselves, and interpreting what you say through these
>> meanings, demands to treated as an idiot. "Proof" that the world hates
>> them - a self-fulfilling prophecy.
>>
> I'll have to look that up it sounds good. Did you see the Simpsons episode
> where the Jehovas Witness were about to ring Marge's door bell and one of
> them says "Wait, I just had a thought. Maybe we're bothering people by
> trying to change their religion. What if we don't have all the answers?" and
> the other one goes "You're right. Let's go get real jobs." If only they
> would realise that is why people are hostile to them, not because of their
> religion. I couldn't give a tinkers toot what someone believed as long as
> they gave me the same respect and tolerance.
They're giving you the epitome of contempt and disrespect. However,
they expect to be given an 'override' for it based on their 'critical
message' [flatulant bullshit].
>> They're convinced it is because they are the good guys, and have been
>> pre-programmed with slanderous and libelous "reasons" why people
>> reject their message - which they tell their involuntary audience
>> escalating the already negative reaction. Which "proves" just how
>> hostile the world is.
>>
>>
> I think the Jehovas Witness believe God created us so only 40,000 people
> would be "Saved" so when someone tells them where to stick it they take it
> as evidence of their persecution but also they just think we are one of the
> billions of souls pre destined for hell.
The poor Witless twats are too stupid to realize those slots were filled
eons ago with names. Now the slots are souless as they've been grabbed
by all the other toddler deity constructs which have promised eternal
dire consequences for not felching them! One knows what happens to the
toys of toddlers. Things are worse for the toys of celestial toddlers.
As for thinking, well, the machinery is missing several parts.
>> Neither is deliberate, but that is the result, and it is successful in
>> keeping them in the fold.
>>
> Yeah true so when they hear any criticism of them they just say it's
> persecution and ignore it. I could argue that by forcing their beliefs down
> our throats they are persecuting us non religious people but that would
> probably fall on death ears when it comes to Jehovas Witnesses.
On all of them. You see, the world revolves around each individual
theist. No one else matters. If they don't persecute then they'll be
persecuted {not that deity won't jack them up anyway-such would, by
definition, be good, loving, righteous, just, yada yada yada}.
sto...@teranews.com
>
>
> "Christopher A. Lee" <ca...@optonline.net> wrote in message
> news:tclds59b3flk077q5...@4ax.com...
[]
>> Which makes non-JWs untrustworthy. Have you ever tried to explain
>> things to them? They talk at you and in their mind you have nothing to
>> say.
>>
>> Which is extremely disrespectful.
>>
> Yeah I tried to point out that they thought the end of the world would occur
> during WW1, but they said that the first founder was a demon. Yeah it does
> get annoying when religious people have that attitude. I would have better
> luck talking to a brick wall.
The brick wall is better educated and more intelligent.
Seon Ferguson
<sto...@teranews.com> wrote in message
news:Azuzn.282031$Dv7....@newsfe17.iad...
Anything is more intelligent than some of the idiot evolution deniers I have
my misfortune to *try to* educate. They still think evolution says we
evolved from monkey's. I mean come on!
Seon Ferguson
<sto...@teranews.com> wrote in message
news:gquzn.137888$gF5.1...@newsfe13.iad...
> Seon Ferguson wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> "Christopher A. Lee" <ca...@optonline.net> wrote in message
>> news:clids5lu5v4jio65p...@4ax.com...
>>> On Thu, 15 Apr 2010 14:12:25 +1000, "Seon Ferguson" <seo...@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>
> []
>
>>> A community of serious theists is self-reinforcing.
>>>
>>> Things like daily prayer, Bible reading etc. The immediate community
>>> is the family.
>>>
>>> It's pretty obvious that one of the reasons JWs, Mormons etc send out
>>> missionaries to people who tell them where to shove it, is to teach
>>> them how hostile the world is so when they return to the comfort of
>>> the community they won't want to leave it.
>>>
>> When your going to tell people what to believe of course people are going
>> to
>> tell them to shove it. But then the believers will take this as a sign of
>> "Persecution"
>
> Another of their delusions, of course.
>
Of course.
>> Maybe next time a JW or Mormon knocks on my door I should
>> explain tot hem I respect their freedom of religion but I don't believe
>> in
>> myths.
>
> In their case, its piss poor fiction barely a century old.
>
Yeah but a myth nevertheless.
> Respect is a two way street. Why should you show them any when they're
> showing you nothing but contempt?
>
I know they think I am going to hell and will be tortured by little men with
sticks in black pajamas.
>>> Having their own meanings for words has the same effect. It leads to
>>> mutual frustration rather like the Monty Python Hungarian phrase book.
>>> Somebody bringing up the subject and insisting on non-standard
>>> meanings themselves, and interpreting what you say through these
>>> meanings, demands to treated as an idiot. "Proof" that the world hates
>>> them - a self-fulfilling prophecy.
>>>
>> I'll have to look that up it sounds good. Did you see the Simpsons
>> episode
>> where the Jehovas Witness were about to ring Marge's door bell and one of
>> them says "Wait, I just had a thought. Maybe we're bothering people by
>> trying to change their religion. What if we don't have all the answers?"
>> and
>> the other one goes "You're right. Let's go get real jobs." If only they
>> would realise that is why people are hostile to them, not because of
>> their
>> religion. I couldn't give a tinkers toot what someone believed as long as
>> they gave me the same respect and tolerance.
>
> They're giving you the epitome of contempt and disrespect. However,
> they expect to be given an 'override' for it based on their 'critical
> message' [flatulant bullshit].
>
Yeah they expect us to tolerate them yet try to get us to go to church or
convert to their cult. That isn't tolerance.
>>> They're convinced it is because they are the good guys, and have been
>>> pre-programmed with slanderous and libelous "reasons" why people
>>> reject their message - which they tell their involuntary audience
>>> escalating the already negative reaction. Which "proves" just how
>>> hostile the world is.
>>>
>>>
>> I think the Jehovas Witness believe God created us so only 40,000 people
>> would be "Saved" so when someone tells them where to stick it they take
>> it
>> as evidence of their persecution but also they just think we are one of
>> the
>> billions of souls pre destined for hell.
>
> The poor Witless twats are too stupid to realize those slots were filled
> eons ago with names. Now the slots are souless as they've been grabbed
> by all the other toddler deity constructs which have promised eternal
> dire consequences for not felching them! One knows what happens to the
> toys of toddlers. Things are worse for the toys of celestial toddlers.
> As for thinking, well, the machinery is missing several parts.
>
I think they believe that judgment day will only be after the end of the
world and until then we all just turn to dust. I'm not 100% sure so don't
quote me on that.
>
>>> Neither is deliberate, but that is the result, and it is successful in
>>> keeping them in the fold.
>>>
>> Yeah true so when they hear any criticism of them they just say it's
>> persecution and ignore it. I could argue that by forcing their beliefs
>> down
>> our throats they are persecuting us non religious people but that would
>> probably fall on death ears when it comes to Jehovas Witnesses.
>
> On all of them. You see, the world revolves around each individual
> theist. No one else matters. If they don't persecute then they'll be
> persecuted {not that deity won't jack them up anyway-such would, by
> definition, be good, loving, righteous, just, yada yada yada}.
Some people might actually enjoy being persecuted because it gives them a
"us vs them" sense.
Seon Ferguson
<sto...@teranews.com> wrote in message
news:O2uzn.119997$mn6....@newsfe07.iad...
I wonder what would happen if they are the one's who made a mistake and
another religion is the "one true faith" in South Park Christians went to
hell.
Seon Ferguson
<sto...@teranews.com> wrote in message
news:p0uzn.201545$Ye4.1...@newsfe11.iad...
> Seon Ferguson wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> "Christopher A. Lee" <ca...@optonline.net> wrote in message
>> news:oqucs5d617094troe...@4ax.com...
>
> []
>
>> Yeah good point as I said evolution has made it so children are so
>> trusting
>> of their parents, which is a good thing because otherwise when you told
>> not
>> to cross the road without looking you would want to see for yourself. And
>> yeah church doesn't help matters and if a child goes to church once a
>> week
>> it will be reinforced.
>
> And when you pray five times per day?
>
Yeah that would be even worse. I feel sorry for children of Muslim parents
(not I didn't say Muslim children for a reason)
>> Also do you think adults who believe this stuff as well reinforces the
>> beliefs?
>
> Certainly. Lead by example. Empirically no different than looking both
> ways before crossing the street.
>
Yeah evolution has designed children to trust their parents without question
for that reason. That is why forcing children to believe your religion is
akin to child abuse.
>
>>I mean when children grow out of believing in Santa our parents
>> usually accept it (although my mum tried to get me to believe in him for
>> a
>> few years) and adults all agree that there is no Santa but with religion
>> some adults still share the delusion and don't all agree that it is all
>> make
>> believe.
>
> Deity is the Santa Claus/Father Christmas/Baba Yaga/Other for adults.
>
Yeah except some never grow out of it and try to force others to believe in
their delusion.
Seon Ferguson
<sto...@teranews.com> wrote in message
news:EYtzn.170150$9b5....@newsfe01.iad...
Yeah true it's not until later that the child is introduced to beliefs.
>
>> It is their childhood that determines their beliefs. It is their parents
>> who
>> effect their belief system. And that is why religion is so hard to escape
>> from.
>
> By deliberate and malevolent design. A cleric once said {paraphrased};
> "Give us a boy before he is seven and he will not stray from the path
> set upon."
>
I know and that is child abuse.
>
>> When it has been shoved down your throat your entire childhood then
>> you get messed up as an adult.
>
> It takes many many years and much work to eliminate the viral
> programming. I suspect many attempt and very few succeed.
>
>
Yeah I have only reached the state at where I reject religion. I still don't
have the guts to say there is no God just that I'm not sure there is a God.
If Christopher is still reading this thread that is why I am like I am. My
childhood.
>> That is why I think it is a form of child
>> abuse and what's worse is the abusers think they are doing the right
>> thing.
>
> And parents do believe they are doing the right thing.
>
Yeah what is the saying again? The road to hell is paved with good
intentions?
>> All thanks to religion.
>
> No. Thanks to Stone/Bronze age superstition. Its no different than the
> proverbial Hollywood Witch Doctor. The 'religion' designation makes the
> outhouse outflow smell like roses, if you have faith.
Just more sophisticated.
sto...@teranews.com
> On Apr 15, 4:12 am, Christopher A. Lee <ca...@optonline.net> wrote:
>> On Wed, 14 Apr 2010 19:59:41 -0700 (PDT), panamfl...@hotmail.com
>> wrote:
>>
>> >On Apr 13, 7:59 pm, "Seon Ferguson" <seo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> Your right I was a fool, you can post all the evidence that atheism is not a
>> >> religion and they will still post their lies.
>>
>> >Over the years, I've discovered that you can't "reason" someone out of
>> >a position they hold for emotional reasons.
>>
>> Or vice versa.
>
> True, that. I think that's why I hate all their little "Jeezuz helbd
> me git owf drugz" stories. <g>
Jeebus scripted them to be addicted to drugs them switched them to be
addicted to his sphincter crackers. You wanna talk about some 'Holy' or
'Dynamite' shiite!
sto...@teranews.com
>
>
> <panam...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:a547e379-72be-4e6b...@11g2000yqr.googlegroups.com...
>> On Apr 13, 7:59 pm, "Seon Ferguson" <seo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> <sto...@teranews.com> wrote in message
>>>
>>> news:GV5xn.53790$Ht4....@newsfe20.iad...
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> > Seon Ferguson wrote:
>>>
>>> >> This is for the gay troll who posted as me. When bullies use those
>>> >> tactics I
>>> >> usually do the complete opposite of what they want. You see, I hate
>>> >> bullies.
>>> >> So expect more posts like this from me. Apologies to those from
>>> >> alt.atheism
>>> >> who don't wish to hear from me but I had to copy and paste all the
>>> >> groups
>>> >> from the "Ignorant Jerkwad Sarah Palin Totally Clueless About Science"
>>> >> thread incase the cowardly gay man was lurking in alt.atheism. Of
>>> >> course
>>> >> most people there have plonked me so I probably shouldn't appologise
>>> >> as
>>> >> they
>>> >> won't read this anyway *breaths* so enjoy.
>>>
>>> >> I also hope to educate morons like fasgandh, oprem and u2fan who lie
>>> >> about
>>> >> atheism and say it is a religion.
>>>
>>> > Ilk such as those mouth breathers aren't able to be educated.
>>>
>>> Your right I was a fool, you can post all the evidence that atheism is
>>> not a
>>> religion and they will still post their lies.
>>
>> Over the years, I've discovered that you can't "reason" someone out of
>> a position they hold for emotional reasons.
>>
> No matter how much evidence you post. It's like trying to explain to a child
> there is no Santa (not that I would do that). It's that same emotional
> denial.
Exactly.
sto...@teranews.com
>
>
> <sto...@teranews.com> wrote in message
> news:EYtzn.170150$9b5....@newsfe01.iad...
>> Seon Ferguson wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> "Christopher A. Lee" <ca...@optonline.net> wrote in message
>>> news:6lubs59ag8elht6jh...@4ax.com...
>>>> On Wed, 14 Apr 2010 17:14:20 +0000, Larry <no...@home.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>"Seon Ferguson" <seo...@gmail.com> wrote in
>>>>>news:vMidnS4oq6EIolnW...@westnet.com.au:
[]
>>> Actually after reading Richard Dawkins and listening to Christopher
>>> Hitchens
>>> clips on you tube I am inclined to agree. A child is born with no
>>> beliefs.
>>
>> An infant has sensors and instincts. It does have the precursors to
>> language in its cries. There are lacks of beliefs and knowledge.
> Yeah true it's not until later that the child is introduced to beliefs.
Effectively a blank DVD at birth.
>>> It is their childhood that determines their beliefs. It is their parents
>>> who
>>> effect their belief system. And that is why religion is so hard to escape
>>> from.
>>
>> By deliberate and malevolent design. A cleric once said {paraphrased};
>> "Give us a boy before he is seven and he will not stray from the path
>> set upon."
>>
> I know and that is child abuse.
And child abuse and molestation is good, righteous, and just sayeth the
clerics.
>>> When it has been shoved down your throat your entire childhood then
>>> you get messed up as an adult.
>>
>> It takes many many years and much work to eliminate the viral
>> programming. I suspect many attempt and very few succeed.
>>
>>
> Yeah I have only reached the state at where I reject religion. I still don't
> have the guts to say there is no God just that I'm not sure there is a God.
What's a God/god?
What reason is there to treat that undefined letter string from any
other one?
Rqsaortwe
Qotee
Toariwe
Kwoer
God
Waoew
Ioewal
Zoweaslsdd
You show reason doesn't apply. There isn't anything to reject. A
rancid flying burrito fart has substance, God does not.
> If Christopher is still reading this thread that is why I am like I am. My
> childhood.
The emotional, mainly terror, chains.
>>> That is why I think it is a form of child
>>> abuse and what's worse is the abusers think they are doing the right
>>> thing.
>>
>> And parents do believe they are doing the right thing.
>>
> Yeah what is the saying again? The road to hell is paved with good
> intentions?
With superstition bad is good.
>>> All thanks to religion.
>>
>> No. Thanks to Stone/Bronze age superstition. Its no different than the
>> proverbial Hollywood Witch Doctor. The 'religion' designation makes the
>> outhouse outflow smell like roses, if you have faith.
>
> Just more sophisticated.
No. Just a meaningless nomenclature upgrade.
sto...@teranews.com
> "sto...@teranews.com" <sto...@teranews.com> wrote in news:I1uzn.254804
> $K81.1...@newsfe18.iad:
>
>> Or switch sky pilots once, or more times. Some even 'roll their own.'
>>
>>
>>
>
> It's the same sky pilot, just a different delivery airline.
All non existant sky pilots and airlines.
sto...@teranews.com
Anytime an organization elevates 'faith' to a virtue they've flat told
you they're full of shiite.
sto...@teranews.com
They don't think. That's the problem. The concept of hel negates any
hint of humanity.
>>>> Having their own meanings for words has the same effect. It leads to
>>>> mutual frustration rather like the Monty Python Hungarian phrase book.
>>>> Somebody bringing up the subject and insisting on non-standard
>>>> meanings themselves, and interpreting what you say through these
>>>> meanings, demands to treated as an idiot. "Proof" that the world hates
>>>> them - a self-fulfilling prophecy.
>>>>
>>> I'll have to look that up it sounds good. Did you see the Simpsons
>>> episode
>>> where the Jehovas Witness were about to ring Marge's door bell and one of
>>> them says "Wait, I just had a thought. Maybe we're bothering people by
>>> trying to change their religion. What if we don't have all the answers?"
>>> and
>>> the other one goes "You're right. Let's go get real jobs." If only they
>>> would realise that is why people are hostile to them, not because of
>>> their
>>> religion. I couldn't give a tinkers toot what someone believed as long as
>>> they gave me the same respect and tolerance.
>>
>> They're giving you the epitome of contempt and disrespect. However,
>> they expect to be given an 'override' for it based on their 'critical
>> message' [flatulant bullshit].
>>
> Yeah they expect us to tolerate them yet try to get us to go to church or
> convert to their cult. That isn't tolerance.
No, its terminal abusiveness, hypocricy, and contempt for others on
their part. They consider that love.
>>>> They're convinced it is because they are the good guys, and have been
>>>> pre-programmed with slanderous and libelous "reasons" why people
>>>> reject their message - which they tell their involuntary audience
>>>> escalating the already negative reaction. Which "proves" just how
>>>> hostile the world is.
>>>>
>>>>
>>> I think the Jehovas Witness believe God created us so only 40,000 people
>>> would be "Saved" so when someone tells them where to stick it they take
>>> it
>>> as evidence of their persecution but also they just think we are one of
>>> the
>>> billions of souls pre destined for hell.
>>
>> The poor Witless twats are too stupid to realize those slots were filled
>> eons ago with names. Now the slots are souless as they've been grabbed
>> by all the other toddler deity constructs which have promised eternal
>> dire consequences for not felching them! One knows what happens to the
>> toys of toddlers. Things are worse for the toys of celestial toddlers.
>> As for thinking, well, the machinery is missing several parts.
>>
> I think they believe that judgment day will only be after the end of the
> world and until then we all just turn to dust. I'm not 100% sure so don't
> quote me on that.
I wouldn't do so. Drooling idiocy and rampant stupidity is just that no
matter what the nomenclature of the superstition is.
>>>> Neither is deliberate, but that is the result, and it is successful in
>>>> keeping them in the fold.
>>>>
>>> Yeah true so when they hear any criticism of them they just say it's
>>> persecution and ignore it. I could argue that by forcing their beliefs
>>> down
>>> our throats they are persecuting us non religious people but that would
>>> probably fall on death ears when it comes to Jehovas Witnesses.
>>
>> On all of them. You see, the world revolves around each individual
>> theist. No one else matters. If they don't persecute then they'll be
>> persecuted {not that deity won't jack them up anyway-such would, by
>> definition, be good, loving, righteous, just, yada yada yada}.
>
> Some people might actually enjoy being persecuted because it gives them a
> "us vs them" sense.
Most do. Persecuted being in air quotes.
sto...@teranews.com
1. They aren't educatable.
2. They're proud of their ignorance.
3. They're unable to think.
4. They love shattering their 'Prime Directives.'
sto...@teranews.com
>
>
> <sto...@teranews.com> wrote in message
> news:p0uzn.201545$Ye4.1...@newsfe11.iad...
>> Seon Ferguson wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> "Christopher A. Lee" <ca...@optonline.net> wrote in message
>>> news:oqucs5d617094troe...@4ax.com...
>>
>> []
>>
>>> Yeah good point as I said evolution has made it so children are so
>>> trusting
>>> of their parents, which is a good thing because otherwise when you told
>>> not
>>> to cross the road without looking you would want to see for yourself. And
>>> yeah church doesn't help matters and if a child goes to church once a
>>> week
>>> it will be reinforced.
>>
>> And when you pray five times per day?
>>
> Yeah that would be even worse. I feel sorry for children of Muslim parents
> (not I didn't say Muslim children for a reason)
Mega reinforcement of viral programming. What reason? {curiosity}
>>> Also do you think adults who believe this stuff as well reinforces the
>>> beliefs?
>>
>> Certainly. Lead by example. Empirically no different than looking both
>> ways before crossing the street.
>>
> Yeah evolution has designed children to trust their parents without question
> for that reason.
Read literally I terminally disagree. Since you were speaking loosely I
understood your point. {This is where knowing the person you're speaking
to somewhat comes into play}.
>That is why forcing children to believe your religion is akin to child abuse.
Gee, since everything deity does is good. And all ties end at death.
And the final result is eternal and of one of two possibilities {working
within the malevolent drivel} Paradise and Loving and eternal torture.
There's no comparison between the status of your childs/childrens
arseholes compared to your {both parents} shot at Paradise. After all,
*this* life doesn't mean a thing. It is all in preparation for the
*next.* [Theists can't have it both ways].
>>>I mean when children grow out of believing in Santa our parents
>>> usually accept it (although my mum tried to get me to believe in him for
>>> a
>>> few years) and adults all agree that there is no Santa but with religion
>>> some adults still share the delusion and don't all agree that it is all
>>> make
>>> believe.
>>
>> Deity is the Santa Claus/Father Christmas/Baba Yaga/Other for adults.
>>
> Yeah except some never grow out of it and try to force others to believe in
> their delusion.
'Validation.'
sto...@teranews.com
> On 15 Apr, 09:09, "Seon Ferguson" <seo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> "Christopher A. Lee" <ca...@optonline.net> wrote in messagenews:6lubs59ag8elht6jh...@4ax.com...
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> > On Wed, 14 Apr 2010 17:14:20 +0000, Larry <no...@home.com> wrote:
>>
>> >>"Seon Ferguson" <seo...@gmail.com> wrote in
>> >>news:vMidnS4oq6EIolnW...@westnet.com.au:
>>
>> >>> Why are you atheists?
>>
>> >>> There are many reasons why people become atheists.
>>
>> >>Your text was great right up to this point. People don't "become"
>> >>atheists. All humans were BORN atheists and "became", because of
>> >>religious brainwashing from a very young age, some kind of believer in
>> >>Santa Claus, Jesus Christ, Yahweh or some other mythical being that
>> >>never existed.
>>
>> >>Any child who is NOT exposed to the religious delusions of their parents
>> >>and fed lies as "facts" all his/her life REMAINS an atheist, as they
>> >>were born, until someone convinces them otherwise. This is why the
>> >>"sales department" of any religion or cult is always the largest
>> >>department of the business. Unless, as we see ad nauseum on
>> >>alt.atheism, there is a CONSTANT recurrance of the sales program, humans
>> >>revert back to their natural atheist state of disbelief in supernatural
>> >>nonsense.
>>
>> > Sean (and a few others here) don't seem to understand this even though
>> > several of us have offered ourselves as examples. It's actually pretty
>> > common in the less religious countries.
>>
>> > The day you encounter theists for the first time, the only thing that
>> > happens is the existence of theists gets added to your life
>> > experience. Your state of not believing hasn't changed - you are now
>> > aware that some people believe something you don't. And after that it
>> > is hard to take them seriously about anything else.
>>
>> Actually after reading Richard Dawkins and listening to Christopher Hitchens
>> clips on you tube I am inclined to agree. A child is born with no beliefs.
>> It is their childhood that determines their beliefs. It is their parents who
>> effect their belief system. And that is why religion is so hard to escape
>> from. When it has been shoved down your throat your entire childhood then
>> you get messed up as an adult. That is why I think it is a form of child
>> abuse and what's worse is the abusers think they are doing the right thing.
>> All thanks to religion.- Sembunyikan teks yang disebut -
>>
>> - Tunjuk teks yang dipetik -
>
> Yes, religious indoctrination is a child abuse process.
> It is very hard to erase this kind of activity because a child is
> subject to abuse by parents and not outsider.
> However with proper education and a sensible brain, most would be
> able to see the truth in their adult lives.
[klaxon]
Not unless the induced terror is reduced to the point where the cerebral
cortex and begin to function on this subject.
> Some could leave it as it is, seeing no harm. Some skeptical but are
> not prepared to seek further truth.
> And of course, some definitely become atheists.
>
> The basic fact is, there is never anything that can possibly be
> attributeable to a god.
Since they don't exist. Q.E.D..
sto...@teranews.com
>
>
> "Larry" <no...@home.com> wrote in message
> news:Xns9D5A86ADCC0...@74.209.131.13...
>> "Seon Ferguson" <seo...@gmail.com> wrote in
>> news:vMidnS4oq6EIolnW...@westnet.com.au:
>>
>>> Why are you atheists?
>>>
>>> There are many reasons why people become atheists.
>>
>> Your text was great right up to this point. People don't "become"
>> atheists. All humans were BORN atheists and "became", because of
>> religious brainwashing from a very young age, some kind of believer in
>> Santa Claus, Jesus Christ, Yahweh or some other mythical being that
>> never existed.
>>
> Exactly and because of the child's natural evolutionary instinct to listen
> to their parents for survival (Richard Dawkins puts it better than me) they
> believe what their parents say without question. That's why it is so easy to
> make a child believe in God or Santa Clause.
>
>> Any child who is NOT exposed to the religious delusions of their parents
>> and fed lies as "facts" all his/her life REMAINS an atheist, as they
>> were born, until someone convinces them otherwise. This is why the
>> "sales department" of any religion or cult is always the largest
>> department of the business. Unless, as we see ad nauseum on
>> alt.atheism, there is a CONSTANT recurrance of the sales program, humans
>> revert back to their natural atheist state of disbelief in supernatural
>> nonsense.
>>
> Those children are so lucky. But your right that's why they are so many ad
> nauseum from people who want to make everyone believe in their deluded
> state. They can't stand the fact that (forgive the example) people have
> escaped the Matrix, so they try to trap people back in.
Apt metaphor.
>> The point at which a child has been brainwashed into the parents'
>> religious delusions is easy to detect. It's when the children no longer
>> will sleep, by themselves, in the dark, without fear of the boogieman
>> under the bed and has replaced pleasant, quite sexual, dreams with
>> horrible nightmares brought on by the post hypnotic suggestions of the
>> religious delusions of horrible places of fire run by clerical sadists.
>>
>>
> I'm sure atheist children are afraid of the boogie man (if anyone was raised
> an atheist please correct me if I'm wrong) but the trouble is they continue
> to believe in the boogie man when normal children will get over it. I mean
> why would a grown man believe in Satan? Come on!
Nope. My daughters never had the nightmares. They never had the bronze
age drivel introduced from birth through whatever age generates those
nightmares.
>> Humans are also born nudists and will remain that way their entire lives
>> until "trained" that their nudism is unacceptable to the society in
>> which they were born, for some crazy reason or another. Children born
>> to nudists have no shame of their bodies or sexual organs, ever. Nudism
>> is their natural state, just like atheism, and they must be FORCED to
>> put on unnatural clothing the society wants them to wear.
Forced or it is needed to protect their delicate hide.
> Yep and if they don't they get the same label that "Communists" have or
> other minorities like that. But I think if more people like Richard Dawkins
> or Christopher Hitchens educate the public at least people won't have that
> stereotype. They have educated me.
Thinking takes work many people aren't willing to do.
>> Humans are also very sexual by birth. A baby boy will play continuously
>> with his little willie, at great pleasure to himself, until FORCED to
>> stop by beating him up verbally or mentally by the formerly beaten up
>> adults, regenerating the social stupidities of centuries past religious
>> morals dreamed up to control the masses by some cleric, under penalty of
>> death or hell or some other really nasty penalty. Left alone,
>> unfettered by "training" from a society, Humans will masturbate from
>> birth until they reach puberty, at which time they will breed
>> continuously to menopause, exactly as nature intended. Our feeble
>> attempts to stop them from this natural penchance to breed until they
>> are some arbitrary "age of consent", dreamed up by a controlling elite,
>> be it clergy or politicians, is a "learned" response and very unnatural
>> state, indeed.
>>
> That's yet another good point. That's why so many people are sexually hung
> up today. But I have no problem with self pleasure or sex before marriage,
> as long as it is safe. My attitude is as long as you wear protection.
You folks in Oz got the better deal. Sadly, the US got the headcases
and they had a whole continent to expand in.
sto...@teranews.com
>
>
> "Christopher A. Lee" <ca...@optonline.net> wrote in message
> news:43ucs5lnqdqifqi1f...@4ax.com...
[]
>> That's another one they learn. I wasn't scared of the bogeyman but
>> then that was introduced as a game.
>>
>> In the UK the "sidewalks" are called pavement because they were
>> literally paved with paving stones. The game was to avoid stepping on
>> the gaps because the stones would open up like trapdoor and the
>> bogeyman would get you.
>>
>> There ws a child's verse by A.A.Milne AFAIR where there were bears
>> waiting to eat you if you stepped on the gap. Again, told as a sort of
>> game.
>>
>> My brother was scared of the bogeyman because somebody told him about
>> he hid behind a particular door and would carry him off. Not as a
>> game.
>
> Oh now I see what Larry meant when he said atheist children won't be afraid
> of the boogie man, thanks. Yeah your right the only reason I feared monsters
> under the bed was because I was introduced to it as a child. If I was lucky
> enough like you to be told that it's all just make believe I would not fear
> it. But I feared it into my adult years because I suffer from a sleeping
> disorder called Sleep Paralysis. It wasn't until I educated my self then I
> realised it was a completely natural process and actually learnt to enjoy
> it.
>
> Oh man if the children were just educated they wouldn't be afraid of
> sidewalks or silly superstitions. In fact I just got it, if they were
> educated that religion is just fairy tales then adults wouldn't be so messed
> up today and be so afraid of hell. I regret my upbringing (I had no say) but
> I am also proud that I have educated myself.
And that you are in the process of removing the last of your slave
chains. Far far foo many people derive comfort from their slave chains.
sto...@teranews.com
>
>
> "Larry" <no...@home.com> wrote in message
> news:Xns9D5BB64AC38...@74.209.131.13...
>> "Seon Ferguson" <seo...@gmail.com> wrote in
>> news:-cidneIohvRs4FvW...@westnet.com.au:
>>
>>> Oh man if the children were just educated they wouldn't be afraid of
>>> sidewalks or silly superstitions. In fact I just got it, if they were
>>> educated that religion is just fairy tales then adults wouldn't be so
>>> messed up today and be so afraid of hell. I regret my upbringing (I
>>> had no say) but I am also proud that I have educated myself.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> If the children were to become educated, religious delusion could be
>> irradicated from the planet in a single generation, along with
>> religions' wars, genocides, mass punishments and the horrible load the
>> clergys' bureaucrats are on the population of the planet. Money wasted
>> on religious delusion, today, could be spent educating and feeding the
>> starving masses to a much better outcome for us all.
>>
> That is indeed a terrific thought. But have you seen the movie "Jesus Camp"
I've seen a couple of clips. [shudder] Those 'adults' are monsters.
[]
sto...@teranews.com
>
>
> "Larry" <no...@home.com> wrote in message
> news:Xns9D5BDF04C2B...@74.209.131.13...
>> "Seon Ferguson" <seo...@gmail.com> wrote in
>> news:UpmdnSWVpdr0M1rW...@westnet.com.au:
>>
>>> Maybe it is but I guess I'm just old fashion. I still dream of one day
>>> falling in love with a woman, getting married and staring a family.
>>> But if I fall in love with a woman I will have no problem expressing
>>> my love to her without being married if you know what I mean.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> I was married, by the Catholic Church, to a raven-haired Hungarian
>> lineage beauty from New Jersey for 17 years. The last 10 we stayed
>> together until her daughter, whos father committed suicide just after
>> dropping her off back with us, graduated high school. It was a strain
>> towards the end but we still talk to each other, though we live 100
>> miles apart.
>>
>> If you find the "right one", you are lucky indeed. If you set the
>> standard too high, you'll never have any. I'll pass on my fellow
>> shipyard workers' wedding present to you.
>>
>> Buy a large, empty 5-gallon water jug and 5 bags of ordinary glass
>> marbles at any Walmart. During the first year of your marriage, every
>> time you make love to her, drop a marble into that jug. On your first
>> anniversary, reverse the process taking one marble out each time.
>>
>> You'll never empty that damned jug. I tried, I really did!
>>
> Wow a lingerie model, I don't think I'll be that lucky but I still hope I
> meet the right lady. I won't set my standards high as long as we love each
> other. I'm sorry it didn't work out though a divorce would be tough. I can't
> blame you for not wanting to be married.
If mutual commitment is depenant upon a piece of paper, is the
commitment worth the paper it is written on?
Consider also the hefty expense, extended pain, and possibly hefty
fighting which makes things much much worse for the adults and any
children. Consider the possible after effects which could be the
parents are now hefty enemies and the mental effects on any children.
Compare that to a mutual agreed upon non-adversial parting of the ways.
Such can lead to the parents remaining friends or casual acquaintances.