JOHN THE BAPTIST THE PROPHET OF ISLAM

[arah]

John The Baptist: A Prophet of Islam

Amongst the 25 Prophets mentioned by God in the Quran, one name is
Prophet John (peace be upon him). In Arabic, his name is Yahya. He is
also a Prophet who figures prominently in Christianity, where he is
known as John the Baptist. His story in the Christian tradition is
described in Bible Luke 1:5-22.

In Islam, belief in all of Allah's Prophets is a fundamental article
of faith. A person who denies belief in any of the Prophets, be it
Jesus (peace be upon him) Moses (peace be upon him), or any of the
others leaves the fold of Islam.

His miraculous birth

Prophet Jesus was not the only Prophet who was born miraculously. By
miraculous, we mean outside of the normal process of human
reproduction Allah has ordained which requires a man and a woman to
conceive a child. In the case of Jesus, this meant being born of a
mother but no father.

But Prophet Adam (peace be upon him)'s birth was even more miraculous
in this sense since he was created with no mother or father.
Similarly, Hawwa or Eve (may Allah be pleased with her) was created
from a man, her husband, and no parents.

The birth of Prophet John is miraculous because he is the offspring of
a barren mother and an elderly father. His father, it should be noted,
was also a Prophet named Zecheriah.

"'Zecheriah, We bring you the good news of the birth of a son whose
name shall be John, one whose namesake We never created before.' He
said: ‘My Lord! How can I have a boy when my wife is barren and I have
reached an extremely old age?' He answered: ‘So shall it be.' Your
Lord says: ‘It is easy for Me', and then added: ‘For beyond doubt, I
created you earlier when you were nothing' (Quran 19:7-9).

"Zecheriah exclaimed: ‘My Lord! How shall I have a son when old age
has overtaken me and my wife is barren?' He said: ‘Thus shall it be;
Allah does what He wills'"(Quran 3:40).

With the birth of John, Allah granted Zecheriah his desire for an
heir.

"And We bestowed favor upon Zecheriah, when he cried to his Lord:
‘Lord! Leave me not solitary [without any issue]. You are the best
Inheritor.' So We accepted his prayer and bestowed upon him John, and
We made his wife fit (to bear a child). Verily they hastened in doing
good works and called upon Us with longing and fear, and humbled
themselves to Us" (Quran 21:89-90).

The beautiful qualities of John

Allah did not just miraculously grant Zecheriah a son. He made this
child a blessing for his parents and beautiful in character. Prophet
John is described in the Quran as chaste and righteous.

"Then Zecheriah prayed to his Lord: ‘O Lord! Grant me from Yourself
out of Your grace the gift of a goodly offspring, for indeed You alone
heed all Prayers. As he stood praying in the sanctuary, the angels
called out to him: ‘Allah gives you good tidings of John, who shall
confirm a command of Allah, shall be outstanding among men, utterly
chaste, and a Prophet from among the righteous" (Quran 3:38-39).

"'O John! Hold fast the Book with all your strength. We had bestowed
wisdom upon him while he was still a child; and We also endowed him
with tenderness and purity; and he was exceedingly pious and
cherishing to his parents. Never was he insolent or rebellious. Peace
be upon him, the day he was born, and the day he will die, and the day
he will be raised up alive. (Quran 19: 12-15).

Part of a line of honored Prophets

Finally, as mentioned above, Prophet John is one of the Prophets
Muslims must believe in. He is one of the 25 mentioned in the Quran.

"And We bestowed upon Abraham (offspring) Isaac and Jacob and each of
them did We guide to the right way as We had earlier guided Noah to
the right way; and (of his descendants We guided) David and Solomon,
Job, Joseph, Moses and Aaron. Thus do We reward those who do good.
(And of his descendants We guided) Zecheriah, John, Jesus and Elias:
each one of them was of the righteous." (Quran 6:84-85).

[André Keshave]

On Oct 28, 3:38 pm, arah <arah1...@gmail.com> wrote:
> John  The Baptist: A Prophet of Islam

> The birth of Prophet John is miraculous because he is the offspring of
> a barren mother and an elderly father. His father, it should be noted,
> was also a Prophet named Zecheriah.

By that measure Isaac's birth would also be miraculous, as Sarah was
quite old when she gave birth to him. But I don't know whether Isaac
is mentionned in the Quran.

AK

[uragoner]

Galatians 1:3 Grace be to you and peace from God the Father, and from
our
Lord Jesus Christ,
4 Who gave himself for our sins, that he might deliver us from this
present
evil world, according to the will of God and our Father:
5 To whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.
6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into
the
grace of Christ unto another gospel:
7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and
would
pervert the gospel of Christ.
8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel
unto you
than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other
gospel
unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.
Matthew 7:15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's
clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
Colossians 2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and
vain
deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world,
and
not after Christ.

Deuteronomy 18:15 The LORD thy God will raise up unto thee a Prophet
from the midst of thee, of thy brethren, like unto me; unto him ye
shall hearken;
16 According to all that thou desiredst of the LORD thy God in Horeb
in the day of the assembly, saying, Let me not hear again the voice of
the LORD my God, neither let me see this great fire any more, that I
die not.
17 And the LORD said unto me, They have well spoken that which they
have spoken.
18 I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like
unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto
them all that I shall command him.
19 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever will not hearken unto my
words which he shall speak in my name, I will require it of him.
20 But the prophet, which shall presume to speak a word in my name,
which I have not commanded him to speak, or that shall speak in the
name of other gods, even that prophet shall die.
21 And if thou say in thine heart, How shall we know the word which
the LORD hath not spoken?
22 When a prophet speaketh in the name of the LORD, if the thing
follow not, nor come to pass,that is the thing which the LORD hath not
spoken, but the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: thou shalt not
be afraid of him.

John 6:14 Then those men, when they had seen the miracle that Jesus
did,
said, This is of a truth that prophet that should come into the world.

Here's a question to all muslims, if your prophet, thirteen hundred
years ago, declares
the end of jews and in the hadiths declare they will one day all be
killed, even the ones hiding behind rocks and trees… and instead the
jews become a
mighty nation in the midst of all those nations that believe in this
prophet, what kind of prophet is he ? (see Revelation 16:13, Daniel
11:36, )
Jeremiah 31:10 Hear the word of the LORD, O ye nations, and declare
it in
the isles afar off, and say, He that scattered Israel will gather him,
and
keep him, as a shepherd doth his flock.
Ezekiel 11:17 Therefore say, Thus saith the Lord GOD; I will even
gather
you from the people, and assemble you out of the countries where ye
have
been scattered, and I will give you the land of Israel.
Ezekiel 20:34 And I will bring you out from the people, and will
gather you
out of the countries wherein ye are scattered, with a mighty hand, and
with
a stretched out arm, and with fury poured out.

The rise of Islam foretold in the Bible….The False Prophet of
Revelation 16:13 and the 6th woe of Revelation 9.

Daniel 11:36 And the king shall do according to his will; and he
shall exalt himself, and magnify himself above every god, and shall
speak marvellous things against the God of gods(Denying the Father,
Son and Holy Ghost), and shall prosper till the indignation be
accomplished: for that that is determined shall be done.
37 Neither shall he regard the God of his fathers (The Biblical God
of Abraham, nor the desire of women, nor regard any god: for he shall
magnify himself above all.
38 But in his estate shall he honour the God of forces (Allah, the
god of this world, the god of war,): and a god whom his fathers knew
not shall he honour with gold, and silver, and with precious stones,
and pleasant things (Mosques).
39 Thus shall he do in the most strong holds with a strange god, whom
he shall acknowledge and increase with glory: and he shall cause them
to rule over many, and shall divide the land for gain.( Muslim
conquests.)
40 And at the time of the end shall the king of the south push at
him: and the king of the north shall come against him like a
whirlwind, with chariots, and with horsemen, and with many ships; and
he shall enter into the countries, and shall overflow and pass over.
41 He shall enter also into the glorious land, and many countries
shall be overthrown: but these shall escape out of his hand, even
Edom, and Moab, and the chief of the children of Ammon.
42 He shall stretch forth his hand also upon the countries: and the
land of Egypt shall not escape.
43 But he shall have power over the treasures of gold and of silver,
and over all the precious things of Egypt: and the Libyans and the
Ethiopians shall be at his steps.( Are not all these countries Islamic
now ?)
44 But tidings out of the east and out of the north shall trouble him:
therefore he shall go forth with great fury to destroy, and utterly to
make away many.
45 And he shall plant the tabernacles of his palace between the seas
in the glorious holy mountain; yet he shall come to his end, and none
shall help him. (Dome of Rock and Al-Aqsa in the Land of Israel)

Daniel 12:1 And at that time shall Michael ( the archangel, one of
Jesus’ other names) stand up, the great prince which standeth for the
children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble ( the oil
fields are destroyed by the war between Islam and the world creating a
horrible colapse. One third of mankind is killed. See Revelation
9:13-18 ), such as never was since there was a nation even to that
same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one
that shall be found written in the book.
And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some
to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.
And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament;
and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and
ever.
But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the
time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be
increased.

[jwshe...@satx.rr.com]

Joh 1:29 -The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him,
and saith, Behold the Lamb of God,
which taketh away the sin of the world.

[duke]

On Fri, 28 Oct 2011 06:38:42 -0700 (PDT), arah <arah...@gmail.com> wrote:

>John The Baptist: A Prophet of Islam
>
>Amongst the 25 Prophets mentioned by God in the Quran, one name is
>Prophet John (peace be upon him). In Arabic, his name is Yahya. He is
>also a Prophet who figures prominently in Christianity, where he is
>known as John the Baptist. His story in the Christian tradition is
>described in Bible Luke 1:5-22.

Yes, he is called the Baptizer for a reason, and it ain't muslim.

The dukester, American-American
*****
Romans 1:16-17
It is the power of God for the salvation of everyone who believes:
for Jew first, then Greek. For in it is revealed the righteousness
of God from faith to faith; as it is written, "The one who is
righteous by faith will live."
*****

[Dr. R. Knapp]

On Oct 28, 9:38 pm, arah <arah1...@gmail.com> wrote:
> John  The Baptist: A Prophet of Islam

No he was not and it is impossible for him to be, he was long dead
before Islam or Mohammad was born, Islam had five hundred years to
make up stories and lies about the Prophets that they could read about
in the Holy Bible. Any fool can say this or that was a prophet only a
Prophet has to be alive to say it, and John the Baptist was dead for
over 500 years. So you lie again and again and the whole Quran is
made up stories with out any foundation in facts.

>
> Amongst the 25 Prophets mentioned by God in the Quran, one name is

The real God of Old Testament and New Testament never said anything
about the Quran or the false Prophets and false stories in it. It is
not of God. Make up stories of a man long dead and put them in a fake
holy book, and try to pass it off as from God, how evil you people
are.

[duke]

On Sat, 29 Oct 2011 00:11:22 -0700 (PDT), "Dr. R. Knapp" <rwk...@aim.com>
wrote:

>On Oct 28, 9:38 pm, arah <arah1...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> John  The Baptist: A Prophet of Islam
>
>No he was not and it is impossible for him to be, he was long dead
>before Islam or Mohammad was born

Sad. The reality of Christianity continues to confuse rk.

[trueman]

On 28 oct, 19:01, duke <duckgumb...@cox.net> wrote:

> On Fri, 28 Oct 2011 06:38:42 -0700 (PDT), arah <arah1...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >John  The Baptist: A Prophet of Islam
>
> >Amongst the 25 Prophets mentioned by God in the Quran, one name is
> >Prophet John (peace be upon him). In Arabic, his name is Yahya. He is
> >also a Prophet who figures prominently in Christianity, where he is
> >known as John the Baptist. His story in the Christian tradition is
> >described in Bible Luke 1:5-22.
>
> Yes, he is called the Baptizer for a reason, and it ain't muslim.

Muslim = The one who submits to the will of God. So What exactly are
you saying?

>The dukester, American-American,
What is American-American? Are you saying you are an Apache, Navaho,
Sioux
or one those dozens of indigenous tribes the real Americans??

[Aviroce]

RELIGIONS ARE SOCIAL SYSTEMS AND SHOULD BE CONSTRUCTIVE TO HUMANITY
AND ISLAM STANDS TO BE THE BEST AMONG ALL
By Aviroce


I am not into religion as you or others adhere to. I look at religion
as a social system to help humanity to get along or lead to better
development of humanity and I think that at the time such beliefs were
needed. If you follow the history of Christianity, "Jesus Followers"
or "Followers of the Messiah" as Arabs and Muslims call them, you find
that Jesus became Christ sometimes about four hundred years after his
alleged birth. According to PBS documentary, John the Baptist and
Jesus were rebels against the dispossession of farmers of land when
the weather was not permitting to have a prosperous crop where the
farmers were dispossessed of land and property and joined John and
Jesus in Palestine. These two rebels were so disturbing to the Israel
dynasty and Rome their master that both decided to get them out of the
way. The head of John was served to the Israel queen and Jesus was
crucified for all to see. This abhorrence against Jews began to grow
into a set of followers we call Jesus Followers. These began to
develop stories to glorify these two rebels and myths followed that to
the point that the two had no real existence as humans. To summerize,
I tell you an anecdote.

A young man told his friend, "My father grew the biggest cabbage in
the world as large as say New York City." The other young man
answered, "My father made the largest pot in the world say twice the
size of New York City." The first young man told the second, "Why did
he do that?" The second young man answered, "To cook your cabbage in
it."

This story really summerizes all Christian and Jewish beliefs except
in the Jewish beliefs we have more of elitism, racism, superiority,
greed and grouping based upon DNA rather than a belief. Islam was
highly political and more developed as a Legal Social System. It
presented Christianity as humanistic and Judaism as a religion not
knowing the Talmud known for its filth and inhumanity. So Islam
scribed to individuality making people associated with Allah directly
and answering to Allah directly. Islam prescribes equality of people
therefor and justice for all. It gave women rights (read my article
about Jefferson) not heard of among the Europeans until early 1900 and
more formally in 1965 in the Civil Rights Act. Islam gave people the
flexibility of common law and specialized in every community according
to its beliefs and needs the reason you have Akbar of India uniting
all Indian tribes and basically developing the first constitutional
government through marriage on one wife from each tribe (5000 of
them.) The Koran became the Constitution of a country and the country
made its own laws the reason why you find Africans endorsing Islam as
it respects women and children. and why you find a Muslim woman
wearing certain dresses unlike women of other countries. Islam is
totally specialized but controlled by the Koran as a constitution.
Islam is a living Legal Social System. When democratic statutes are
applied as One-Man, One-Vote, meaning that each man is as strong as
another, Islam would grow into the best democracies in the world
superior to that in USA which has taken over 200 years to reach what
Islam preached 1500 years ago.

Aviroce

[jwshe...@satx.rr.com]

On Oct 29, 10:01 am, Aviroce <dudaras...@gmail.com> wrote:

"RELIGIONS ARE SOCIAL SYSTEMS AND SHOULD BE CONSTRUCTIVE TO HUMANITY
AND ISLAM STANDS TO BE THE BEST AMONG ALL
By Aviroce "

Dare To Inquire: "The Bloody Borders of Islam"

by Bruce Kodish

Political scientist Samuel Huntington has made some interesting
comments on the current state of international politics in which he
trys to explain the disproportionate world-wide involvement of Muslims
in violence and terrorism, what he calls the "bloody borders of
Islam."

Huntington has noted that:
"While groups from all religions have engaged in various forms of
violence and terrorism, the figures make it clear that in the past
decade Muslims have been involved in far more of these activities than
people of other religions. One of the things that attracted a lot of
attention in The Clash of Civilizations was my use of the phrase "the
bloody borders of Islam." But if you look around the Muslim world you
see that in the 1990s Muslims were fighting non-Muslims in Bosnia,
Kosovo, Macedonia, Chechnya, Azerbaijan, Tajikistan, Kashmir,
Indonesia, the Philippines, the Middle East, Sudan, Nigeria, and other
places. Muslims have been fighting one another also. The International
Institute for Strategic Studies surveyed the armed conflicts going on
in the world in 2000, and its figures show that twenty-three of the
thirty-two conflicts under way involved Muslims.
Why is this?"

For Huntington's complete comments, read Religion, Culture, and
International Conflict After September 11



http://www.newciv.org/nl/newslog.php/_v256/__show_article/_a000256-000091.htm

[arah]

On Oct 28, 11:11 pm, "Dr. R. Knapp" <rwkn...@aim.com> wrote:
>
> No he was not and it is impossible for him to be, he was long dead
> before Islam or Mohammad was born,

Muhammad was not the founder of Islam he was the last prophet,

[arah]

On Oct 28, 8:10 am, uragoner <uragon...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Galatians 1:3  Grace be to you and peace from God the Father, and from
> our Lord Jesus Christ,

Epistle of Paul to the Galatians has nothing to do with Jesus. It was
written by Saul the Murderer who declare himself as a prophet.

Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but
inwardly they are ravenous wolves. (16) You will know them by their
fruits. Do men gather grapes from thornbushes or figs from thistles?
(17) Even so, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears
bad fruit. (18) A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree
bear good fruit. (19) Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut
down and thrown into the fire. (20) Therefore by their fruits you will
know them. Matthew 7:15-20

Paul murdered the followers of Jesus and he was the anti- christ.

[duke]

On Sat, 29 Oct 2011 05:57:00 -0700 (PDT), trueman <atru...@hotmail.com> wrote:

>On 28 oct, 19:01, duke <duckgumb...@cox.net> wrote:
>> On Fri, 28 Oct 2011 06:38:42 -0700 (PDT), arah <arah1...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >John �The Baptist: A Prophet of Islam
>>
>> >Amongst the 25 Prophets mentioned by God in the Quran, one name is
>> >Prophet John (peace be upon him). In Arabic, his name is Yahya. He is
>> >also a Prophet who figures prominently in Christianity, where he is
>> >known as John the Baptist. His story in the Christian tradition is
>> >described in Bible Luke 1:5-22.
>>
>> Yes, he is called the Baptizer for a reason, and it ain't muslim.
>Muslim = The one who submits to the will of God. So What exactly are
>you saying?

Muslims = the people that bomb their own in the market place. Where is God's
will?

>>The dukester, American-American,
> What is American-American? Are you saying you are an Apache, Navaho,
>Sioux
>or one those dozens of indigenous tribes the real Americans??

Wow, back in a new mask, aren't you!!

The dukester, American-American

[Dr. R. Knapp]

On Oct 29, 7:49 pm, duke <duckgumb...@cox.net> wrote:
> On Sat, 29 Oct 2011 00:11:22 -0700 (PDT), "Dr. R. Knapp" <rwkn...@aim.com>

> wrote:
>
> >On Oct 28, 9:38 pm, arah <arah1...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> John  The Baptist: A Prophet of Islam
>
> >No he was not and it is impossible for him to be, he was long dead
> >before Islam or Mohammad was born
>
> Sad.  The reality of Christianity continues to confuse rk.

Yes I am confused why you keep thinking rk is confused, While all can
see, is the only confusion here, is that which is in your mind.. As
well as your education on these matters all overwhelm. You duk, and
since you can not understand what is beyond you capability you think
it has to others instead of yourself, duk.

[duke]

On Sun, 30 Oct 2011 05:24:54 -0700 (PDT), "Dr. R. Knapp" <rwk...@aim.com>
wrote:

>On Oct 29, 7:49 pm, duke <duckgumb...@cox.net> wrote:
>> On Sat, 29 Oct 2011 00:11:22 -0700 (PDT), "Dr. R. Knapp" <rwkn...@aim.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> >On Oct 28, 9:38 pm, arah <arah1...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> John  The Baptist: A Prophet of Islam
>>
>> >No he was not and it is impossible for him to be, he was long dead
>> >before Islam or Mohammad was born
>>
>> Sad.  The reality of Christianity continues to confuse rk.
>
>Yes I am confused why you keep thinking rk is confused,

That's what I figured.

> While all can
>see, is the only confusion here, is that which is in your mind.. As
>well as your education on these matters all overwhelm. You duk, and
>since you can not understand what is beyond you capability you think
>it has to others instead of yourself, duk.

You're not only confused at what you're saying, you're confused to who you are.

[trueman]

On 29 oct, 18:48, duke <duckgumb...@cox.net> wrote:

> On Sat, 29 Oct 2011 05:57:00 -0700 (PDT), trueman <atruem...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >On 28 oct, 19:01, duke <duckgumb...@cox.net> wrote:
> >> On Fri, 28 Oct 2011 06:38:42 -0700 (PDT), arah <arah1...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >John The Baptist: A Prophet of Islam
>
> >> >Amongst the 25 Prophets mentioned by God in the Quran, one name is
> >> >Prophet John (peace be upon him). In Arabic, his name is Yahya. He is
> >> >also a Prophet who figures prominently in Christianity, where he is
> >> >known as John the Baptist. His story in the Christian tradition is
> >> >described in Bible Luke 1:5-22.
>
> >> Yes, he is called the Baptizer for a reason, and it ain't muslim.
> >Muslim = The one who submits to the will of God.  So What exactly are
> >you saying?
>
> Muslims = the people that bomb their own in the market place.  Where is God's
> will?

The answer was with reference to the subject under discussion i.e.
'prophet John being a Muslim', your comment deviates from this. It is
like my saying," remember how a small Christian sect was annihilated
by fellow Christians in recent times in Waco, Texas. or that the
tribal wars of Europe ( better known to you as WW1 & WW2) were mainly
Christians against Christians where millions were murdered but I won't
do it as this is not the subject matter in this thread.

>
> >>The dukester, American-American,
> > What is American-American? Are you saying you are an Apache, Navaho,
> >Sioux
> >or one those dozens of indigenous tribes the real Americans??
>
> Wow, back in a new mask, aren't you!!

Just curious, no 'masks' necessary.

[duke]

On Sun, 30 Oct 2011 06:40:52 -0700 (PDT), trueman <atru...@hotmail.com> wrote:

>On 29 oct, 18:48, duke <duckgumb...@cox.net> wrote:
>> On Sat, 29 Oct 2011 05:57:00 -0700 (PDT), trueman <atruem...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> >On 28 oct, 19:01, duke <duckgumb...@cox.net> wrote:
>> >> On Fri, 28 Oct 2011 06:38:42 -0700 (PDT), arah <arah1...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> >John The Baptist: A Prophet of Islam
>>
>> >> >Amongst the 25 Prophets mentioned by God in the Quran, one name is
>> >> >Prophet John (peace be upon him). In Arabic, his name is Yahya. He is
>> >> >also a Prophet who figures prominently in Christianity, where he is
>> >> >known as John the Baptist. His story in the Christian tradition is
>> >> >described in Bible Luke 1:5-22.
>>
>> >> Yes, he is called the Baptizer for a reason, and it ain't muslim.
>> >Muslim = The one who submits to the will of God.  So What exactly are
>> >you saying?
>>
>> Muslims = the people that bomb their own in the market place.  Where is God's
>> will?
>
>The answer was with reference to the subject under discussion i.e.
>'prophet John being a Muslim', your comment deviates from this. It is
>like my saying," remember how a small Christian sect was annihilated
>by fellow Christians in recent times in Waco, Texas. or that the
>tribal wars of Europe ( better known to you as WW1 & WW2) were mainly
>Christians against Christians where millions were murdered but I won't
>do it as this is not the subject matter in this thread.

ZOOM - John the baptist flew over your cookoo's head.

[jwshe...@satx.rr.com]

On Oct 30, 7:40 am, trueman <atruem...@hotmail.com> wrote:

"WW2) were mainly
Christians "


The Mufti and the Führer


By Mitchell Bard

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

In 1941, Haj Amin al-Husseini fled to Germany and met with Adolf
Hitler, Heinrich Himmler, Joachim Von Ribbentrop and other Nazi
leaders. He wanted to persuade them to extend the Nazis’ anti-Jewish
program to the Arab world.

The Mufti sent Hitler 15 drafts of declarations he wanted Germany and
Italy to make concerning the Middle East. One called on the two
countries to declare the illegality of the Jewish home in Palestine.
Furthermore, “they accord to Palestine and to other Arab countries the
right to solve the problem of the Jewish elements in Palestine and
other Arab countries, in accordance with the interest of the Arabs
and, by the same method, that the question is now being settled in the
Axis countries.”1

In November 1941, the Mufti met with Hitler, who told him the Jews
were his foremost enemy. The Nazi dictator rebuffed the Mufti's
requests for a declaration in support of the Arabs, however, telling
him the time was not right. The Mufti offered Hitler his “thanks for
the sympathy which he had always shown for the Arab and especially
Palestinian cause, and to which he had given clear expression in his
public speeches....The Arabs were Germany's natural friends because
they had the same enemies as had Germany, namely....the Jews....”
Hitler replied:

Germany stood for uncompromising war against the Jews. That naturally
included active opposition to the Jewish national home in
Palestine....Germany would furnish positive and practical aid to the
Arabs involved in the same struggle....Germany's objective
[is]...solely the destruction of the Jewish element residing in the
Arab sphere....In that hour the Mufti would be the most authoritative
spokesman for the Arab world. The Mufti thanked Hitler profusely.2

In 1945, Yugoslavia sought to indict the Mufti as a war criminal for
his role in recruiting 20,000 Muslim volunteers for the SS, who
participated in the killing of Jews in Croatia and Hungary. He escaped
from French detention in 1946, however, and continued his fight
against the Jews from Cairo and later Beirut. He died in 1974.

The Husseini family continued to play a role in Palestinian affairs,
with Faisal Husseini, whose father was the Mufti's nephew, regarded
until his death in 2001 as one of their leading spokesmen in the
territories.

Notes
1“Grand Mufti Plotted To Do Away With All Jews In Mideast,” Response,
(Fall 1991), pp. 2-3.
2Record of the Conversation Between the Fuhrer and the Grand Mufti of
Jerusalem on November 28, 1941, in the Presence of Reich Foreign
Minister and Minister Grobba in Berlin, Documents on German Foreign
Policy, 1918-1945, Series D, Vol. XIII, London, 1964, p. 881ff in
Walter Lacquer and Barry Rubin, The Israel-Arab Reader, (NY: Facts on
File, 1984), pp. 79-84.


http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/History/muftihit.html

[uragoner]

You should read the book of Acts....apparently you only know half the
story...

[Dr. R. Knapp]

On Oct 31, 3:20 am, jwsheffi...@satx.rr.com wrote:
> On Oct 30, 7:40 am, trueman <atruem...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> "WW2) were mainly
> Christians "
>
> The Mufti and the Führer
>
> By Mitchell Bard
>

> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------­-----

What has all this to do with John the Baptist????? It is interesting
if I had more time, would like to read that history, if it can be
proven to be true.

[Dr. R. Knapp]

On Oct 30, 8:44 pm, duke <duckgumb...@cox.net> wrote:
> On Sun, 30 Oct 2011 05:24:54 -0700 (PDT), "Dr. R. Knapp" <rwkn...@aim.com>

> wrote:
>
>> >On Oct 28, 9:38 pm, arah <arah1...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >> John  The Baptist: A Prophet of Islam
>
> >> >No he was not and it is impossible for him to be, he was long dead
> >> >before Islam or Mohammad was born
>
> >> Sad.  The reality of Christianity continues to confuse rk.
>
> >Yes I am confused why you keep thinking rk is confused,
>
> That's what I figured.

It should be as rw is not confused in the first place. It seems that
only you are and your lack of understanding and knowledge as a lay
catholic, is what has you all confused to think others are, when it is
only you Duky

Thanks again for showing the Islamic folks they are not the only one
confused here. I read a few of their replies why they believe as they
do, they not confused as you are, just mislead.

Dr. R Knapp

[trueman]

You a

[trueman]

On 31 oct, 05:04, "Dr. R. Knapp" <rwkn...@aim.com> wrote:

You are so right for once, it has nothing to do with the subject but
he keeps regurgitating this old story . As if the Mufti spoke for
all billion + Muslims.

[arah]

On Oct 31, 7:04 am, "Dr. R. Knapp" <rwkn...@aim.com> wrote:

> What has all this to do with John the Baptist?????  It is interesting
> if I had more time, would like to read that history, if it can be

> proven to be true.-

More about Prophet Zakariya and Yahya (John The Baptist)

The years had taken their toll on the Prophet Zakariyah (pbuh). He was
now old and bent with age, in his nineties. Despite his feebleness, he
went to the temple daily to deliver his sermons.

Zakariyah was not a rich man, but he was always ready to help those in
need. His one disappointment in life was that he had no children, for
his wife was barren. This worried him, for he feared there was no one
after him to carry out his work. The people needed a strong leader,
for it they were left on their own, they would move away from Allah's
teachings and change the Holy Laws to suit themselves.

During one of his visits to the temple, he went to check on Maryam,
who was living in a secluded room of the temple. He was surprised to
find fresh out of season fruit in her room. Besides him, no one had
entry to her room. When he inquired, she told him that the fruit was
from Allah. She found it every morning. But why was he so surprised,
she asked him. Did he not know that Allah provides without measure for
whom He wills?

This noble girl had opened this eyes to a startling idea. Could he not
ask his Lord to bless him with a child in his old age? Even if his
wife was past childbearing age, nothing was impossible for his
Gracious Lord!

Allah the Almighty revealed: 'Kaf, Ha, Ya, Ain, Sad, (These letters
are one of the miracles of the Quran, and none but Allah Alone knows
their meanings). This is a mention of the Mercy of your Lord to His
slave Zakariyah. When he called out his Lord (Allah) - a call in
secret, saying: "My Lord! Indeed my bones have grown feeble, and gray
hair has spread on my head, and I have never been unblest in my
invocation to You, O my Lord! And Verily! I fear my relatives after
me, since my wife is barren. So give me from Yourself an heir, - who
shall inherit me, and inherit also the posterity of Jacob (inheritance
of the religious knowledge and Prophethood, not the wealth, etc.) And
make him, my Lord, one with whom You are Well-pleased!"

Allah said: "O Zakariyah! Verily, We give you the glad tidings of a
son. His name will be Yahya (John). We have given that name to none
before him."

He said: "My Lord! How can I have a son, when my wife is barren, and I
have reached the extreme old age."

He said: "So (it will be). Your Lord says, It is easy for Me.
Certainly I have created you before, when you had been nothing."

Zakariyah said: "My Lord! Appoint for me a sign."

He said: "Your sign is that you shall not speak unto mankind for three
nights, though having no bodily defect."

Then he came out to his people from Al Mihrab (a praying place or a
private room, etc.), he told them by signs to glorify Allah's Praises
in the morning and in the afternoon.

It was said to his son: "O Yahya! Hold fast to the Scripture (The
Torah)." And We gave him wisdom while yet a child, and made him
sympathetic to men as a mercy or a grant from Us, and pure from sins
(Yahya) and he was righteous, and dutiful towards his parents, and he
was neither an arrogant nor disobedient (to Allah or to his parents).
And Sulaiman (peace) on him the day he was born, the day he dies, and
the day he will be raised up to life again! (Ch 19:1-15 Quran)

Almighty Allah also said: At that time Zakariyah invoked his Lord,
saying: "O my Lord! Grant me from You, a good offspring. You are
indeed the All-Hearer of invocation."

Then the angels called him, while he was standing in prayer in Al-
Mihrab ( a praying place or a private room), saying: "Allah gives you
glad tidings of Yahya confirming (believing in) the Word from Allah
("Be!" - and he was! (i.e. the creation of Isa (Jesus), son of Mariam
(Mary), noble keeping away from sexual relations with women, a
Prophet, from among the righteous."

He said: "O my Lord! How can I have a son when I am very old, and my
wife is barren?"

Allah said: "Thus Allah does what He wills." He said: "O my Lord! Make
a sign for me." Allah said: "Your sign is that you shall not speak to
mankind for three days except with signals. And remember your Lord
much (by praising Him again and again), and glorify Him in the
afternoon and in the morning." (3:38-41 Quran).

Yahya (pbuh) was born a stranger to the world of children who used to
amuse themselves, as he was serious all the time. Most children took
delight in torturing animals whereas, he was merciful to them. He fed
the animals from his food until there was nothing left for him, and he
just ate fruit or leaves of trees.

Yahya loved reading since childhood. When he grew up, Allah the
Exalted called upon him: "O Yahya! Hold fast to the Scripture (The
Torah)." And We gave him wisdom while yet a child. (19:12 Quran).

Allah guided him to read the Book of Jurisprudence closely; thus, he
became the wisest and most knowledgeable man of that time. Therefore,
Allah the Almighty endowed him with the faculties of passing judgments
on people's affairs, interpreting the secrets of religion, guiding
people to the right path, and warning them against the wrong one.

Yahya reached maturity. His compassion for his parents, as well as for
all people and all creatures, increased greatly. He called people to
repent their sins.

There are quite a number of traditions told about Yahya. Ibn Asaker
related that one time his parents were looking for him and found him
at the Jordan River. When they met him, they wept sorely, seeing his
great devotion to Allah, Great and Majestic.

Ibn Wahb said that, according to Malik, grass was the food of Yahya
Ibn Zakariyah, and he wept sorely in fear of Allah. A chain of
narrators reported that Idris Al Khawlawi said: "Shall I not tell you
he who had the best food? It is Yahya Ibn Zakariyah, who joined the
beasts at dinner, fearing to mix with men."

Ibn Mubarak stated that Wahb Ibn Al-Ward narrated that Zakariayah did
not see his son for three days. He found him weeping inside a grave
which he had dug and in which he resided. "My son, I have been
searching for you, and you are dwelling in this grave weeping!" "O
father, did you not tell me that between Paradise and Hell is only a
span, and it will not be crossed except by tears of weepers?" He said
to him: "Weep then, my son." Then they wept together.

Other narrations say that Yahya (pbuh) said: "The dwellers of Paradise
are sleepless out of the sweetness of Allah's bounty; that is why the
faithful must be sleepless because of Allah's love in their hearts.
How far between the two luxuries, how far between them?"

They say Yahya wept so much that tears marked his cheeks. He found
comfort in the open and never cared about food. He ate leaves, herbs,
and sometimes locusts. He slept anywhere in the mountains or in holes
in the ground. He sometimes would find a lion or a bear as he entered
a cave, but being deeply absorbed in praising Allah, he never heeded
them. The beasts easily recognized Yahya as the prophet who cared for
all the creatures, so they would leave the cave, bowing their heads.

Yahya sometimes fed those beasts, out of mercy, from his food and was
satisfied with prayers as food for his soul. He would spend the night
crying and praising Allah for His blessings.

When Yahya called people to worship Allah, he made them cry out of
love and submission, arresting their hearts with the truthfulness of
his words.

A conflict took place between Yahya and the authorities at that time.
A tyrant king, Herod Antipas, the ruler of Palestine, was in love with
Salome, his brother's daughter. He was planning to marry his beautiful
niece. The marriage was encouraged by her mother and by some of the
learned men of Zion, either out of fear or to gain favor with the
ruler.

On hearing the ruler's plan, Yahya pronounced that such a marriage
would be incestuous. He would not approve it under any circumstance,
as it was against the Law of the Torah.

Yahya's pronouncement spread like wildfire. Salome was angry, for it
was her ambition to rule the kingdom with her uncle. She plotted to
achieve her aim. Dressing attractively, she sang and danced before her
uncle. Her arousing Herod's lust. Embracing her, he offered to fulfill
whatever she desired. At once she told hi: "I would love to have the
head of Yahya, because he has defiled your honor and mine throughout
the land. If you grant me this wish, I shall be very happy and will
offer myself to you." Bewitched by her charm, he submitted to her
monstrous request. Yahya was executed and his head was brought to
Salome. The cruel woman gloated with delight. But the death of Allah's
beloved prophet was avenged. Not only she, but all the children of
Israel were severely punished by invading armies which destroyed their
kingdom.

[jwshe...@satx.rr.com]

On Oct 31, 7:15 am, arah <arah1...@gmail.com> wrote:

"What has all this to do with John the Baptist????? "

[uragoner]

NO ! Mohammad was the ONLY prophet of Islam and he thought himself
higher than all the other prophets and after he died, his family and
followers stole from the true God and his true prophets that pointed
to the Christ...

Look for your self it was written by Daniel the prophet 2000 yrs
before your False Prophet (Revelation 16:13) was even born..


Islam the false prophet of Revelation 16:13, and here in the book of
Daniel
in the Old Testament. Beware those who have been decieved by this
falehood.

Daniel 11:37 Neither shall he regard the God of his fathers, nor the
desire

of women, nor regard any god: for he shall magnify himself above all.

(Mohammed)
38 But in his estate shall he honour the God of forces( Allah): and a
god whom
his fathers(Abraham and the true Prophets) knew not shall he honour

with gold,
and silver, and with precious stones, and pleasant things (Mosques).
39 Thus shall he do in the most strong holds with a strange god

(Allah),

whom he shall acknowledge and increase with glory: and he shall cause
them to rule over many, and shall divide the land for gain.

40 And at the time of the end shall the king of the south push at him:
and
the king of the north shall come against him like a whirlwind, with
chariots, and with horsemen, and with many ships; and he shall enter
into
the countries, and shall overflow and pass over.

41 He shall enter also into the glorious land (Israel), and
manycountries

shall be overthrown: but these shall escape out of his hand, even
Edom,
and Moab, and the chief of the children of Ammon.
42 He shall stretch forth his hand also upon the countries: and the
land
of Egypt shall not escape.
43 But he shall have power over the treasures of gold and of silver,
and
over all the precious things of Egypt: and the Libyans and the
Ethiopians
shall be at his steps.

44 But tidings out of the east and out of the north shall trouble him:
therefore he shall go forth with great fury to destroy, and utterly to
make away many.
45 And he shall plant the tabernacles of his palace between the seas
in

the glorious holy mountain(al aqsa in Jerusalem,oh yes and the dome of
the
rock...it did say tabernacles didn't it); yet he shall come to his

end, and
none shall help him

Hey, and notice all the countries that were overcome by this religion
foretold by Daniel over 2000 yrs ago.... reads just like today's
newspaper. How accurate is that ?

[duke]

On Sun, 30 Oct 2011 21:01:58 -0700 (PDT), "Dr. R. Knapp" <rwk...@aim.com>
wrote:

>On Oct 30, 8:44 pm, duke <duckgumb...@cox.net> wrote:
>> On Sun, 30 Oct 2011 05:24:54 -0700 (PDT), "Dr. R. Knapp" <rwkn...@aim.com>
>> wrote:
>>
> >> >On Oct 28, 9:38 pm, arah <arah1...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> >> John  The Baptist: A Prophet of Islam
>>
>> >> >No he was not and it is impossible for him to be, he was long dead
>> >> >before Islam or Mohammad was born
>>
>> >> Sad.  The reality of Christianity continues to confuse rk.
>>
>> >Yes I am confused why you keep thinking rk is confused,
>>
>> That's what I figured.

>It should be as rw is not confused in the first place. It seems that
>only you are and your lack of understanding and knowledge as a lay
>catholic, is what has you all confused to think others are, when it is
>only you Duky

I doubt that you've ever seen the inside of a Christian church in your life.

>Thanks again for showing the Islamic folks they are not the only one
>confused here. I read a few of their replies why they believe as they
>do, they not confused as you are, just mislead.
>
>Dr. R Knapp
>

[arah]

On Nov 1, 3:57 am, uragoner <uragon...@gmail.com> wrote:
> NO !  Mohammad was the ONLY prophet of Islam and he thought himself
> higher than all the other prophets and after he died, his family and
> followers stole from the true God and his true prophets that pointed
> to the Christ...

Prophets of Islam with brief history.....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4xo4nJce4Cs


A jew declare that Islam was the religion of the prophets

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J-aY5XWKjKM&feature=related

My dear uragoner

To know more why not study the Quran

[jwshe...@satx.rr.com]

Muhammad in the Bible
Sam Shamoun


For centuries Muslim scholars have objected to the Christian notion of
the Lordship of Christ. They emphatically state that Christians are
unaware of the prophecies in their own Scripture which point to the
advent of Muhammad. Dr. Jamal Badawi's pamphlet titled, "Muhammad in
the Bible" is an obvious case in point.

In his narrative, Dr. Badawi attempts to point out and interpret
passages within the Bible which in his opinion uphold the Muslim
claims. He earnestly attempts to relate the Biblical passages to the
notion that Muhammad was the promised Prophet. However, a deeper
examination of the contents of his study, immediately reveal many
major errors which though maybe unintended, nevertheless serve to
misrepresent the Biblical facts.

In the following study we will take the reader through a course of the
specific passages which Badawi alludes to and provide a concise and
systematic rebuttal to the claims he has laid out. We will further
pose our own counter points and objections and in the process attempt
to guide the reader into a more meaningful interpretation of God's
Word.

Once the objective reader is faced with the simplicity and the beauty
of the Bible, it is hoped that one will begin to gain an important
insight into the profound Biblical revelations. As one gazes more
intently at the totality of God's masterpiece - the Bible - a
wonderful picture begins to emerge of God's plan for the salvation of
mankind through the blood of his Son Jesus Christ.

At this juncture we will delve into a point-by-point examination of
Dr. Badawi's pamphlet:

1. Muslims state that the promise of blessings upon Ishmael
confirms, or so it is believed, the prophethood of Muhammad since he
is the only prophet to descend from him. (Cf. Genesis 17:20)

Yet when read within context, it becomes quite clear that the
blessings upon Ishmael were not prophetic tidings of Muhammad. They
rather point to lineage and political prosperity. Ishmael became
blessed with twelve sons who ruled as mighty princes to the east of
Israel, thus fulfilling God's promises to him:

"Then Abraham fell on his face and laughed, and said in his heart,
‘Will a child be born to a man one hundred years old? And will Sarah,
who is ninety years old, bear a child?’ And Abraham said to God, ‘Oh
that Ishmael might live before You!’ But God said, ‘No, but Sarah your
wife will bear you a son, and you shall call his name Isaac; and I
will establish My covenant with him for an everlasting covenant for
his descendants after him. As for Ishmael, I have heard you; behold, I
will bless him, and will make him fruitful and will multiply him
exceedingly. He shall become the father of twelve princes, and I will
make him a great nation. But My covenant I will establish with Isaac,
whom Sarah will bear to you at this season next year.’" Genesis
17:17-21

Fulfillment:

"Now these are the records of the generations of Ishmael, Abraham's
son, whom Hagar the Egyptian, Sarah's maid, bore to Abraham; and these
are the names of the sons of Ishmael, by their names, in the order of
their birth: Nebaioth, the firstborn of Ishmael, and Kedar and Adbeel
and Mibsam and Mishma and Dumah and Massa, Hadad and Tema, Jetur,
Naphish and Kedemah. These are the sons of Ishmael and these are their
names, by their villages, and by their camps; TWELVE PRINCES according
to their tribes. These are the years of the life of Ishmael, one
hundred and thirty-seven years; and he breathed his last and died, and
was gathered to his people. They settled from Havilah to Shur which is
east of Egypt as one goes toward Assyria; he settled in defiance of
all his relatives." Genesis 25:12-18 (Cf. Gen. 16:7-15; 21:13,18)

Genesis consistently and clearly emphasizes that it would be Abraham's
descendents from Sarah that would be blessed with kings and prophets,
serve in a foreign land for four hundred years, possess Canaan and
become the nation of God. (Cf. Gen. 12:1-3; 15:13-16; 17:15-16,19,21;
21:12; 22:17-18; 26:24; 28:13-15; 35:11-12)

The Quran also bears witness that it was Isaac, not Ishmael, who was
the chosen vessel for prophethood and kingship:

"And we bestowed on him Isaac and Jacob, and we established the
prophethood and the Scripture among his seed." S. 29:27

The fact that seed refers to Israel is clarified in these passages:

"O children of Israel! Call to mind the (special) favour which I
bestowed upon you, and that I preferred you to all others (for My
message)." S. 2:47

"We did aforetime grant to the Children of Israel the Book, the Power
of Command, AND PROPHETHOOD; We gave them, for Sustenance, things good
and pure; and We favored them above the nations. And We granted them
Clear Signs in affairs (of Religion): it was only after knowledge had
been granted to them that they fell into schisms, through insolent
envy among themselves. Verily thy Lord will judge between them on the
Day of Judgment as to those matters in which they set up differences."
S. 45:16-17

"O children of Israel! Call to mind the special favour which I
bestowed upon you, and that I preferred you to all others (for My
message)." S. 2:122

Badawi then attempts to use the right of the firstborn to support
Ishmael's preeminence and preference over Isaac. (Cf. Deut. 21:15-17)

This attempt fails since to bind Abraham to the Law which came four
hundred years later would also make the observance of Sabbath,
Passover, sacrificial duties, the forbidding of marrying sisters
(something that Jacob did) and other commands also binding upon him
and his children. The Muslim position is extremely weak in this case.

Badawi also overlooks the clear biblical examples where God
sovereignly chose the younger seed over the firstborn. One such
example is God selecting Jacob over his older brother Esau:

The LORD said to her (Rebekah, Isaac's wife), "Two nations are in your
womb, and two peoples from within you will be separated; one people
will be stronger than the other, and the older (Esau) will serve the
younger (Jacob)." Genesis 25:23

God also chose Joseph's younger son Ephraim to be precede the
firstborn in status:

"When Joseph saw his father placing his right hand on Ephraim's head
he was displeased; so he took hold of his father's hand to move it
from Ephraim's head to Manasseh's head. Joseph said to him, ‘No, my
father, this is the firstborn; put your right hand on his head.’ But
his father refused and said, ‘I know my son, I know. He too will
become a people, and he too will become great. Nevertheless, his
younger brother will be greater than he, and his descendants will
become a group of nations.’" Genesis 48:17-19

In light of these passages and the fact that the Mosaic injunction on
the rights of the firstborn had not yet been given, Badawi's appeal to
the status of the firstborn is extremely weak and proves nothing.


2. Badawi claims that Muhammad is the prophet like Moses that was
predicted to come:

"I will raise up for them a prophet like you from among their
brothers; I will put my words in his mouth, and he will tell them
everything I command him." Deuteronomy 18:18:

The verses on the prophet like Moses are often misunderstood to mean
Muhammad for the following reasons:


The prophet was to be from among their "brethren" (i.e. Israelites)
which would be referring to the Ishmaelites.
Muhammad spoke the words of God (i.e. The Quran) as the passage stated
the prophet would do.
Muhammad, like Moses, was rejected by his people, fled to Medina
(Moses to Midian), came back victorious, establishing a nation, with a
law and was head of state and military affairs.
The only problem with these points is that they are not the
distinguishing characteristics given in the Holy Bible to determine
the identity of prophet like Moses. The Prophet had to be like Moses
in two respects, as the following citations indicate:

"The Lord would speak to Moses face to face, as a man speaks with his
friend. Then Moses would return to the camp, but his young aide Joshua
son of Nun did not leave the tent." Exodus 33:11

"Since then, no prophet has risen in Israel like Moses, whom the Lord
knew face to face, who did all those miraculous signs and wonders the
Lord sent him to do in Egypt - to Pharaoh and to all his officials and
to his whole land. For no one has ever shown the mighty power or
performed the awesome deeds that Moses did in the sight of all
Israel." Deuteronomy 34:10-12

Hence, this Prophet had to perform miracles similar to those performed
by Moses, and had to know God face to face, i.e. have direct contact
with God. Interestingly, the Quran also confirms that God spoke
directly to Moses:

We have sent thee inspiration, as We sent it to Noah and the
Messengers after him: we sent inspiration to Abraham, Ismail, Isaac,
Jacob and the Tribes, to Jesus, Job, Jonah, Aaron, and Solomon, and to
David We gave the Psalms. Of some messengers We have already told thee
the story; of others We have not;- and to Moses Allah spoke direct;-
S. 4:163-164

These things Muhammad did not do since Muhammad never saw God nor did
he perform any miracles whatsoever, as the following citations prove:

Say those without knowledge: "Why speaketh not Allah unto us? or why
cometh not unto us a Sign?" So said the people before them words of
similar import. Their hearts are alike. We have indeed made clear the
Signs unto any people who hold firmly to Faith (in their hearts). S.
2:118

Even IF thou wert to bring to the People of the Book all the Signs
(together), they would not follow thy Qibla; nor art thou going to
follow their Qibla; nor indeed will they follow each other's Qibla. If
thou after the knowledge hath reached thee, Wert to follow their
(vain) desires,- then wert thou Indeed (clearly) in the wrong. S.
2:145

They say: "Why is not a Sign sent down to him from his Lord!" Say:
"Allah hath certainly power to send down a Sign: but most of them
understand not." S. 6:37

They swear their strongest oaths by Allah, that if a (special) sign
came to them, by it they would believe. Say: "Certainly (all) Signs
are in the power of Allah: but what will make you (Muslims) realize
that (even) if (special) signs came, they will not believe."? S.
6:109

But (now), when the Truth has come to them from Ourselves, they say,
"Why are not (Signs) sent to him, LIKE THOSE WHICH WERE SENT TO
MOSES?" Do they not then reject (the Signs) which were formerly sent
to Moses? They say: "Two kinds of sorcery, each assisting the other!"
And they say: "For us, we reject all (such things)!" S. 28:48

Narrated Masruq:

I said to 'Aisha, "O Mother! Did Prophet Muhammad see his Lord?" Aisha
said, "What you have said makes my hair stand on end! Know that if
somebody tells you one of the following three things, he is a liar:
Whoever tells you that Muhammad saw his Lord, is a liar." Then Aisha
recited the Verse:

'No vision can grasp Him, but His grasp is over all vision. He is the
Most Courteous Well-Acquainted with all things.' (6.103) 'It is not
fitting for a human being that Allah should speak to him except by
inspiration or from behind a veil.' (42.51) 'Aisha further said, "And
whoever tells you that the Prophet KNOWS WHAT IS GOING TO HAPPEN
TOMORROW, is a liar." She then recited:

'No soul can know what it will earn tomorrow.' (31.34) She added: "And
whoever tell you that he concealed (some of Allah's orders), is a
liar." Then she recited: 'O Apostle! Proclaim (the Message) which has
been sent down to you from your Lord..' (5.67) 'Aisha added. "But the
Prophet saw Gabriel in his true form twice." (Sahih Al-Bukhari, Volume
6, Book 60, Number 378)

Narrated Masruq:

'Aisha said, "If anyone tells you that Muhammad has seen his Lord, he
is a liar, for Allah says: 'No vision can grasp Him.' (6.103) And if
anyone tells you that MUHAMMAD HAS SEEN THE UNSEEN, he is a liar, for
Allah says: "None has the knowledge of the Unseen but Allah." (Sahih
Al-Bukhari, Volume 9, Book 93, Number 477)

Secondly, the term "brethren" when read in context can only refer to
the twelve tribes of Israel as the opening verses of Deuteronomy
18:1-2 show:

"The Levitical priests, that is, all the tribe of Levi, shall have no
portion or inheritance with Israel ... They shall have no inheritance
among their brethren."

Once more, in chapter 17:14-15 the Israelites are told to put one of
their "brethren" as king over them, never a foreigner. The fact is
that Israel at no time in their history have ever put an Ishmaelite
"brother" as king but always an Israelite, i.e. Saul, David. This
demonstrates that in these particular contexts "brethren" does not
refer to any nation outside of the twelve tribes of Israel.

The only person who fits this prophetic profile is Jesus Christ the
Lord. This is due to the following reasons:


Christ states that Moses wrote about him. (Cf. John 5:46)
The Apostles quote this passage as being fulfilled in Christ. (Cf.
John 1:45; Acts 3:17-24)
On both their births, infant deaths were enacted. (Cf. Ex. 1:15-16,22;
Mt. 2:13)
Both were rescued by divine intervention. (Cf. Ex. 2:2-10; Mt. 2:13)
Christ being the Son of God, knew God the Father "face to face"- as
did Moses. In fact, Christ is the image of God and is God's exact
representation. (Cf. Mt. 11:27; John 1:1-3,14,18; John 14:9; Col.
1:15-17; Heb. 1:2,3)
God prepared Moses for his mission by his wandering in the wilderness
for forty years; Christ for forty days. (Cf. Ex. 7:7; Mt. 4:1)
Christ, like Moses, shone with glorious light at the Mount of
Transfiguration. (Cf. Ex. 34:29; Mt. 17:2)
Christ performed greater miracles than Moses. An example would be
raising the dead. (Cf. John 11:25-26,43-44)
Christ spoke the words of God alone. (Cf. John 8:28)
Christ, like Moses, intercedes on behalf of men. (Cf. Exodus 32:30-32;
1 Tim. 2:5)
Christ, like Moses, is the mediator of God's covenant. (Cf. Exodus
24:4-8; Mark 14:24; 1 Cor. 11:23-25)
Christ and Moses liberated their people from bondage; one from
slavery, the other from sin. (Cf. Exodus; Isaiah 53; John 8:32-36;
Gal. 5:1)
Christ, like Moses, is an Israelite; Jesus being from the tribe of
Judah and Moses from the tribe of Levi. (Cf. Num. 26:59; Luke
3:22-38)
Interestingly, many early Muslim scholars like biographer Ibn Ishaq,
in his Sirat Rasulullah, testify that Moses wrote of Jesus:

When the Christians of Najran came to the apostle the Jewish rabbis
came also and they disputed one with the other before the apostle.
Rafi said, 'you have no standing,' and he denied Jesus and the Gospel;
and a Christian said to the Jews, 'you have no standing' and he denied
that Moses was a prophet and denied the Torah. So God sent down
concerning them: 'The Jews say the Christians have no standing; and
the Christians say the Jews have no standing, yet they read the
Scriptures. They do not know on the day of resurrection concerning
their controversy,' i.e., each one reads in his book the confirmation
of what he denies, so that the Jews deny Jesus though they have the
Torah in which God required them by the word of Moses to hold Jesus
true; while in the Gospel is what Jesus brought in confirmation of
Moses and the Torah he brought from God: So each one denies what is in
the hand of the other. (Alfred Guillaume, The Life of Muhammad, p.
258)

Other Muslim scholars that concur include Ibn Kathir. In his comments
on S. 61:6 Ibn Kathir states:

Isa said, "The Tawrah CONVEYED THE GLAD TIDINGS OF MY COMING, and my
coming CONFIRMS THE TRUTH OF THE TAWRAH. I convey the glad tidings of
the Prophet who will come after me. He is the unlettered, Makkan, Arab
Prophet and Messenger, Ahmad." (Tafsir Ibn Kathir (Abridged), Volume
9, Surat Al-Jathiyah to the end of Surat Al-Munafiqun, abridged under
a group of scholars under the supervision of Shaykh Safiur-Rahman Al-
Mubarakpuri [Darussalam Publishers & Distributors Riyadh, Houston, New
York, London, Lahore; First Edition: September 2000], p. 617; bold and
capital emphasis ours)

In his biography on Muhammad, Ibn Kathir even says that Jesus was
similar to Moses, despite trying to apply Deuteronomy 18:18 to
Muhammad! He writes:

In Book four of the existing Torah, there is a verse which says: <A
prophet was set for them from their close relations, and brothers like
you Musa (Moses), and I will put my word in his mouth.> It is clear to
them and to everyone that Allah ... did not send a prophet from the
offspring of Isma'el except Muhammad ... In fact, there was no prophet
from the Children of Isra'el similar to Musa ... EXCEPT 'Issa ... but
the Jews do not accept his prophethood, and he is not the offspring of
their brothers; instead, he is related to them through his mother,
therefore, the meaning of the above verse focuses on Prophet
Muhammad ... (The Seerah of Prophet of Muhammad (S.A.W.), abridged by
Muhammad Ali Al-Halabi Al-Athari [Al-Firdous Ltd, London, 2001: First
Edition], part II, p. 24; bold and capital emphasis ours)

The following comments from Ar-Razi are taken from Mahmoud M Ayoub's
book, The Quran and Its Interpreters, Volume II, The House of Imran,
State University of New York Press, Albany 1992. p. 150:

Razi then raises the following question: ‘It may be argued that latter
statement contradicts the one before it. This is because it clearly
indicates that he came to make lawful some of the things which were
unlawful in the Torah. This would mean that his legislation was
contrary to that of the Torah, which would contradict his saying, "I
shall confirm the Torah which was before me."’ Razi, however, holds
that ‘there is actually no contradiction between the two statements
because confirming the Torah can only signify the belief that all that
is in it is true and right. If, moreover, the second purpose [of
Jesus’ apostleship] is not mentioned in the Torah, his making lawful
some of the things which are unlawful in it would not contradict his
having confirmed the Torah. Furthermore, SINCE THE TORAH CONTAINS
PROPHECIES CONCERNING THE COMING OF JESUS, then neither his coming nor
his law would be contrary to the Torah.’ (bold and capital emphasis
ours)


3. Badawi erroneously assumes that the reference in Deuteronomy 33:2
to Sinai, Seir and Paran is a prediction of Judaism, Christianity and
Islam respectively. Badawi claims that Seir refers to Jesus' ministry
in Palestine, while Paran is Mecca where Muhammad began his prophetic
ministry.

The problem with this interpretation is that Paran and Seir are
located near Egypt in the Sinai Peninsula, as any good Bible map
shows. It is purely wishful thinking to claim that Seir refers to
Jesus' ministry in Palestine or that Paran is near Mecca, when Paran
was hundreds of miles away near southern Palestine in northeastern
Sinai!

Proof that Paran is not Mecca can be found in the Holy Bible itself:

"And the children of Israel took their journeys out of the wilderness
of Sinai; and the cloud (of God) rested in the wilderness of Paran."
Numbers 10:12

"And afterward the people (Israelites) removed from Hazeroth, and
pitched in the wilderness of Paran." Numbers 12:16

"And Moses by the commandment of the Lord sent them from the
wilderness of Paran ... And they went and came to Moses, and to Aaron,
and to all the congregation of the children of Israel, unto the
wilderness of Paran, to Kadesh ..." Numbers 13:3, 26

"These be the words which Moses spake unto all Israel on this side of
Jordan in the wilderness, in the plain over against the Red sea,
between Paran, and Tophel, and Laban, and Hazeroth, and Dizahab."
Deuteronomy 1:1

All these verses prove that Paran could not possibly be Mecca but a
locale near Sinai, since Moses and the Israelites never journeyed to
Mecca. Hence, Badawi's assertion fails in the light of the biblical
evidence.

Secondly, this advent was meant to be a blessing from God to the
children of Israel as indicated in v. 1. Again, this would nullify the
notion of this being a prophecy of Islam, since Islam has been a
constant thorn and threat to Israel, not a blessing!

Badawi then claims that Deuteronomy 33:2 also predict Muhammad's take
over of Mecca. The reference to the LORD (Yahweh) himself coming with
"ten thousands of saints" is taken by Badawi as a prediction of
Muhammad taking over Mecca with ten thousand soldiers.

We have already seen that Paran is not Mecca and Badawi's claim
therefore has no substance behind it. Further, the Hebrew text doesn't
say "ten thousand" but rather "ten thousands" (Hebrew ribboth). This
refers to the angelic host of God, which number in the myriads. (Cf.
Dan. 7:10; Heb. 12:22; Rev. 5:11)

Finally, the text is not referring to a future advent but to God
coming to Israel's aid with all his angels as he lead his people out
of Egypt, through the desert, and into the Promised Land.


4. Badawi asserts that Isaiah 42:1-13 predicts the advent of
Muhammad.

A careful reading of the context of the Servant passages of Isaiah
will demonstrate that Isaiah is predicting the coming of the promised
Messiah. There are four Servant passages in the book of Isaiah:
42:1-13; 49:1-9; 50:4-11; 52:13 - 53:12.

When read as a single unit it becomes obvious that the Servant spoken
of can only be Jesus Christ. This point becomes forcefully clear after
reading the 53rd chapter which speaks of the crucifixion, death and
the resurrection of the Servant on behalf of fallen humanity - a deed
fulfilled only in the life of Christ.

Further evidence establishing Jesus as the Servant is provided in
Isaiah 42:1. The verse proclaims that God's Spirit would rest upon the
Servant. Several other passages in Isaiah establishes this Servant's
identity:

"A shoot will come up from the stump of Jesse; from his roots a branch
will bear fruit. The Spirit of the LORD will rest on him - the Spirit
of wisdom and of understanding, the Spirit of counsel and of power,
the Spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD - and he will
delight in the fear of the LORD. He will not judge by what he sees
with his eyes, or decide by what he hears with his ears; but with
righteousness he will judge the needy, with justice he will give
decisions for the poor of the earth. He will strike the earth with the
rod of his mouth; with the breath of his lips he will slay the wicked.
Righteousness will be his belt and faithfulness the sash around his
waist." Isaiah 11:1-5

"In that day the root of Jesse will stand as a banner for the peoples;
the nations will rally to him, and his place of rest will be
glorious." Isaiah 11:10

"The Spirit of the Sovereign LORD is upon me, because the LORD has
anointed me to preach good news to the poor. He has sent me to bind up
the brokenhearted, to proclaim freedom for the captives and release
from darkness for the prisoners, to proclaim the year of the LORD's
favor and the day of vengeance of our God, to comfort all who mourn."
Isaiah 61:1-2

Isaiah 11:1-2 identifies the Servant as the root of Jesse, i.e. a
descendant of Jesse. Jesse was the father of King David, and the
passage points to the fact that the Servant will come from the house
of David. (Cf. Ruth 4:22; 1 Sam. 16:1-3; Mt. 1:6)

It is Jesus, not Muhammad, who was a descendant of David. Jesus, not
Muhammad, had the Spirit of the LORD descend upon him after emerging
from the waters of baptism (Cf. Mt. 3:16-17).

In fact, Jesus states that he personally came to fulfill Isaiah
61:1-2:

"So He came to Nazareth, where He had been brought up. And as His
custom was, He went into the synagogue on the Sabbath day, and stood
up to read. And He was handed the book of the prophet Isaiah. And when
He had opened the book, He found the place where it was written: ‘The
Spirit of the LORD is upon Me, Because He has anointed Me To preach
the gospel to the poor; He has sent Me to heal the brokenhearted, To
proclaim liberty to the captives And recovery of sight to the blind,
To set at liberty those who are oppressed; To proclaim the acceptable
year of the LORD.’ Then He closed the book, and gave it back to the
attendant and sat down. And the eyes of all who were in the synagogue
were fixed on Him. And He began to say to them, ‘Today this Scripture
is fulfilled in your hearing.’" Luke 4:16-21


5. Badawi sees a prediction of the Battle of Badr in Isaiah
21:13-17.

Again, a careful reading of the context will show that this has
nothing to do with Muhammad's battle at Badr, but rather predicts the
judgment that God would enact upon Arabia through the mighty armies of
Assyria and Babylon respectively. The Assyrian armies besieged the
Arabs in 732 B.C., with Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon following suit
by defeating the people of Kedar during his reign in 599-598 B.C. (Cf.
Jeremiah 49:28-33)

Furthermore, v.16 specifies the time this prophecy was to be
fulfilled:

"For thus the LORD said to me: ‘within a year, according to the year
of a hired man, all the glory of Kedar will fail’"

This indicates that Isaiah is referring to the Assyrian attack upon
the Arabs in the year 732 BC., coinciding with the time of Isaiah's
ministry.

Hence, the attempts to make this passage a reference to an event that
took place nearly a thousand years later is soundly refuted when read
in context.


6. Badawi feels that Isaiah 28:11 prophesies the revelation of the
Quran, which is in "another tongue".

Far from prophesying the advent of the Quran, Isaiah is simply
referring to the Assyrian takeover of Ephraim. (Cf. Isaiah 28:1-29)

God brought judgment upon Israel for their wickedness. He manifested
his judgment by using a foreign nation that spoke a foreign tongue
(i.e. Aramaic) to subdue and punish his rebellious people.
Furthermore, this passage on Israel being judged by a foreign tongue
had been foretold centuries beforehand in the Mosaic Law:

"The LORD will bring you and the king whom you set over you to a
nation which neither you nor your fathers have known, and there you
shall serve other gods - wood and stone." Deuteronomy 28:36

"You shall beget sons and daughters, but they shall not be yours for
they shall go into captivity." Deuteronomy 28:41

"The LORD will bring a nation against you from afar, from the end of
the earth, as swift as the eagle flies, a nation whose language you
will not understand, a nation of fierce countenance, which does not
respect the elderly nor show favor to the young ... They shall besiege
you at all your gates until your high and fortified walls, which you
trust, come down throughout all your land: and they shall besiege you
at all your gates throughout all your land which the LORD your God has
given you." Deuteronomy 28:49-50, 52

Thus to see Islam in any of these prophecies is purely wishful
thinking.


7. Badawi argues that Jesus' promise to send the Paraclete is a
reference to the coming of Muhammad.

Yet, anyone reading the context can see that this is a prediction of
the outpouring of the Holy Spirit. The Paraclete of John cannot be
referring to Muhammad for the following reasons:


The Paraclete could not be seen by human eyes, but would indwell the
disciples at the same time. (14:17) This could not possibly be
referring to Muhammad because people did see him. Secondly, the
Paraclete could dwell within a group of individuals at the same time,
making him immaterial and omnipresent. These, being the attributes of
divinity, tend to suggest that the Paraclete is God.
The Paraclete is the Holy Spirit (14:26). In orthodox Islamic belief,
the Holy Spirit is the angel Gabriel. This fact would disprove the
notion that Muhammad is the Paraclete, since this would make him
Gabriel!
According to the Holy Scriptures, the Paraclete was to bring glory to
Jesus Christ, and yet Muhammad glorified Allah. (16:13-15) Taking the
idea of Muhammad as the Paraclete to its natural conclusion, we may
claim then that Jesus Christ is Allah, the God of Muhammad!
The Paraclete did arrive as predicted, not 600 years later but ten
days after the ascension of Jesus to heaven. (Acts 2:1-33)


8. Badawi alludes to Matthew 21:19-21,43 to prove that the kingdom
that was to be taken away from Israel and given to a productive nation
refers to the Muslim nation.

Nothing could be further from the truth. Jesus is speaking of the
Gentiles being brought into covenant relations with God, not Islam or
Muhammad:

"Again I ask: Did they (Israel) stumble as to fall beyond recovery?
Not at all! Rather, because of their transgression, salvation has come
to the Gentiles to make Israel envious. But if their transgression
means riches for the world, their loss means riches for the Gentiles,
how much greater riches will their fullness bring?" Romans 11:11-12

"Therefore, remember that formerly you who are Gentiles by birth and
called 'uncircumcised' by those who call themselves 'the
circumcision' (that done in the body by the hands of men) - remember
that at that time you were separate from Christ, excluded from
citizenship in Israel and foreigners to the covenant of the promise,
without hope and without God in the world. But now in Christ Jesus you
who once were far away have been brought near through the blood of
Christ. For he himself is our peace (salaam), who has made the two one
and has destroyed the barrier, the dividing wall of hostility, by
abolishing in his flesh the law with its commandments and regulations.
His purpose was to create in himself one new man out of the two, thus
making peace (salaam) and in this one body reconcile both of them to
God through the cross, by which he put to death their hostility. He
came and preached peace (salaam) to you who were far away and peace
(salaam) to those who were near. For through him we both have one
access to the Father by one Spirit." Ephesians 2:11-18

Finally,

"And they (the inhabitants of heaven) sang a new song: 'You are worthy
to take the scroll and to open its seals, because you were slain, and
with your blood you purchased men for God, from every tribe and
language and people and nation. You have made them to be a kingdom of
priests to serve our God, and they will reign on the earth.'"
Revelation 5:9-10


9. Badawi sees the reference of the rejected stone of Matthew
21:42,44 as a prophecy of Muhammad.

The rejected stone does not refer to Muhammad, but to the Jewish
rejection of the Messiahship of Jesus:

"It is by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth whom you crucified but
whom God raised from the dead, that this man stands before you healed.
He is, ‘the stone you builders rejected, which has become the
cornerstone.’" Acts 4:10-11

"Consequently, you are no longer foreigners and aliens, but fellow
citizens with God's people and members of God's household, built on
the foundation of the apostles and the prophets, with Christ himself
as the chief cornerstone." Ephesians 2:19-20

"As you come to him (Jesus Christ), the living stone - rejected by men
but chosen by God and precious to him - you also, like living stones,
are being built into a spiritual house to be a holy priesthood,
offering spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ.
For in Scripture it says: ‘See, I lay a stone in Zion, a chosen and
precious cornerstone, and the one who trusts in him will never be put
to shame.’ Now to you who believe, this stone is precious. But to
those who do not believe, ‘The stone the builders rejected has become
the capstone,’ and, ‘A stone that causes men to stumble and a rock
that makes them fall.’ They stumble because they disobey the message -
which is also what they are destined for." 1 Peter 2:4-8


10. Badawi claims that Psalms 84:6 is referring to Muslim pilgrimage
to the Kabah in Mecca, since the term "Baca" is another name for Mecca
in the Quran.

Again, the fallaciousness behind this reasoning is easily seen from a
careful reading of the context. Old Testament Baca is not in Arabia,
but in northern Israel. This is stated within the text itself:

"They go from strength to strength, till each appears before God in
Zion." Psalm 84:7

Furthermore, the term Baca in Hebrew means either "weeping" or "balsam
trees." Hence, the valley of Baca can be translated as the valley of
balsam trees. We find reference to such a place located within the
Valley of Rephaim, an area approximately 3-4 miles south and west of
Jerusalem:

"Once more the Philistines came up and spread out in the Valley of
Rephaim; so David inquired of the LORD, and he answered, ‘Do not go
straight up, but circle around behind them and attack them in front of
the balsam (Hebrew- Baca) trees.’" 2 Samuel 5:22-23

Noting that the valley of Baca is actually less than 5 miles away from
Jerusalem, it makes sense that the Psalmist could speak of pilgrims
making their way through Baca valley to appear before God in Zion.
(Cf. vv. 5-7)

The reader is invited to look up the distance between Jerusalem and
Mecca and use common sense to determine how likely it is that the
Psalmist recommend the Israelite pilgrims to make a detour to Mecca as
they made their annual pilgrimage to Mt. Zion. (note: they are walking
on their own feet!)

Equally fallacious is Badawi's claim that Habakkuk 3:3 refers to
Muhammad:

"God came from Teman, the Holy One from Mount Paran. His glory covered
the heavens and his praise filled the earth."

Muslims like Badawi presume that Teman and Paran refer to the advent
of Islam in Arabia. Yet it is clear from the context that it is God
who is coming from Teman and Mount Paran. It says nothing about a
prophet. Furthermore, as we have already noted Paran is not near Mecca
but hundreds of miles away and Teman was a town close to Jericho in
the territory of Edom.

Interestingly, in order to prove that Teman is an oasis north of
Medina Badawi misquotes J. Hasting's Dictionary of the Bible,
inferring that Teman being near Medina is something admitted by
Christian scholars as well. Yet Hastings does not say that Teman is
located north of Medina, since he was referring to the country of
Tema! Badawi has confused the two.

On p. 897 of his book we read:

TEMAN - A tribe (and district) of Edom (emphasis ours)

Further on in the same page we also read:

TEMA - In Gn. 25:15 (1 Ch. 7:30), a son of Ishmael. The country and
people meant are still represented by the same name - modern Taima, a
large oasis about 200 miles S.E. of the head of the Gulf of 'Akabah,
and the same distance due N. Of Medina in W. Arabia.

This exposes a deliberate attempt on Badawi's part to misinform his
readers, since he knows that most readers, especially Muslims, will
take him at face value without bothering to check his sources
personally.

Despite all the evidence to the contrary, if Muslims still insist that
all references to Teman find their fulfillment in Islam they must also
take into consideration the overall biblical witness to the fate of
Teman. For example, in Jeremiah 49:7 God questions Teman's lack of
wisdom and in verse 20 the LORD swears to destroy their pastures and
flocks. In Ezekiel 25:13, God declares that He will lay the
inhabitants of Teman to waste, sending fire to consume them (Amos
1:12), insuring no survivors (Obadiah 8-10). This would mean that
Islam is futile since it lacks wisdom and will eventually be destroyed
by a consuming fire!


11. Badawi uses John 1:19-23 to prove that Israelites during the
time of Jesus were expecting three individuals, namely the Christ,
Elijah, and the Prophet. Badawi then takes this to mean that the Jews
were expecting an Ishmaelite prophet, namely the Prophet like unto
Moses. (Cf. Deut. 18:18) Badawi feels that since the Jews were still
awaiting the Prophet even during Christ's advent, this therefore
indicates that THE Prophet had not yet arrived. It is then surmised
that this Prophet is Muhammad, since he is the only prophet to follow
Jesus.

There are three arguments against this fallacious line of thinking:


If it were true that the Prophet was to be an Ishmaelite, why did the
Jews ask John, an Israelite, if he were that Prophet? The very fact
that they did ask an Israelite proves that the Prophet to come had to
be from the nation of Israel and could not possibly be a descendant of
Ishmael.

The passage does not indicate that the Prophet had not arrived during
the time of Jesus' ministry. It rather points to the fact that until
the public ministry of Jesus had begun, there had been no prophet like
Moses. It needs to be pointed out that when John had been asked this
question, Christ had not yet been revealed. Following the initiation
of Christ's public ministry, the people knew without doubt that this
was indeed THE Prophet spoken of by Moses:
"After the people saw the miraculous sign that Jesus did, they began
to say, ‘Surely, this is THE Prophet who is to come into the world.’"
John 6:14

Again,

"On hearing his words, some of the people said, ‘Surely this man is
THE Prophet.’" John 7:40


To quote these particular Jews as a reliable and infallible reference
is problematic, since they were often mistaken in their exegesis of
Scripture, frequently arriving at erroneous conclusions. For instance,
they had been unaware of the fact that the Holy Scriptures stated that
Messiah would come out of Galilee:
"Others said, This is the Christ. But some said, Shall Christ come out
of Galilee?" John 7:41

"They (the Pharisees) answered and said unto him, Art thou (Nicodemus)
also of Galilee? Search and look: For out of Galilee ariseth no
prophet." John 7:52

Yet, nearly 800 years earlier the Prophet Isaiah prophesied exactly
this:

"Nevertheless the dimness shall not be such as was in her vexation,
when at the first he lightly afflicted the land of Zebulun and the
land of Naphtali, but in the future he will honor Galilee of the
Gentiles, by the way of the sea, along the Jordan ... For to us a
child is born, to us a Son is given, and the government will be upon
his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God,
Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace." Isaiah 9:1,6

According to the Aramaic Targum of Jonathan, this passage is a
prophecy of Messiah. Hence, to use fallible Jews who were often wrong
in their interpretation of the Scriptures, is indicative of Badawi's
alleged proofs for Muhammad's prophethood and his erroneous exegesis
of the biblical data.


12. Another alleged prophecy of Muhammad according to Muslims, comes
from John the Baptist himself:

"I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance, but He who is coming
after me is mightier than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry.
He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire." Matthew 3:11 NKJV

Muslims erroneously assume that this passage could only be referring
to Muhammad, not Jesus, due to the following three reasons:


Jesus did not come after John, but was his contemporary.
If Jesus was the one whom John was referring to, then why did he not
become his follower, if indeed Christ was greater than him?
At one point John even doubted Jesus, sending two disciples to inquire
if he was actually the one who was to come. (Matthew 11:1-3)
These factors leave little doubt to the Muslims that John was
referring to Muhammad.

We respond to all three points:

Although John and Jesus were contemporaries, Christ did not begin
proclaiming the Gospel until after John the Baptist's public ministry
had already begun. Hence, Christ did indeed come "after" John. (cf.
Matthew 3:1,3,16; 4:12,17)
It was not John the Baptist's job to follow Jesus, but to prepare his
way. (cf. John 1:23) Further, John was arrested shortly before Jesus
began his Galilean ministry, making it impossible for him to follow
Christ. (cf. Matthew 4:12-17)
Christ reassured John the Baptist that he indeed was the One predicted
to come and appealed to the fulfillment of Isaiah 29:18 and 35:4-6:
"The blind see and the lame walk; the lepers are cleansed and the deaf
hear; the dead are raised up and the poor have the Gospel preached to
them. ‘And blessed is he who is not offended because of Me.’" Matthew
11:4-6 NKJV

To try and offset this final argument it is surmised that John, being
filled with the Holy Spirit, should not have doubted since the Spirit
would clearly have told him all things regarding the Messiah
beforehand. This logic is fallacious since the Holy Bible does not
state that a prophet must have complete knowledge in regards to a
particular situation, but only that which God wants him to know. (Cf.
1 Peter 1:10-12; Matthew 24:36; Acts 1:6-8)

Furthermore, being filled with the Holy Spirit does not mean that a
prophet would not make mistakes, but simply means that the prophet
would be supernaturally guided to preach God's Word infallibly.

Thirdly, John himself bears witness that Jesus is indeed the One who
was expected:

"The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him, and said, ‘Behold! The
Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world. This is He of whom I
said, "After me comes a Man who ranks higher than I for He was before
me" ... I did not know Him, but He who sent me to baptize said to me,
"Upon whom you see the Spirit descending, and remaining on Him, this
is He who baptizes with the Holy Spirit." And I have seen and testify
that this is the Son of God.’" John 1:29-30, 33-34

"He (Jesus) must increase, but I must decrease." (John 3:30)

Even more amazing is that the Quran itself indicates that John
preceded Jesus as his forerunner! (Cf. S. 3:39)

Finally, the idea of a Prophet to succeed Christ is altogether denied
in the Holy Bible. The Scriptures are clear in indicating that Jesus
Christ, not Muhammad, is God's final revelation to mankind and the
seal of His approval. This is apparent from Jesus' own statements:

He then began speaking to them in parables: "A man planted a vineyard.
He put a wall around it, dug a pit for the winepress, and built a
watchtower. Then he rented the vineyard to some farmers and went away
on a journey. At harvest time he sent a servant to the tenants to
collect from them some of the fruit of the vineyard. But they seized
him, beat him and sent him away empty-handed. Then he sent another
servant to them; they struck this man on the head and treated him
shamefully. He sent still another, and that one they killed. He sent
many others; some of them they beat, others they killed. He had one
left to send, a son, whom he loved. He sent him last of all, saying,
'They will respect my son.' But the tenants said to one another, 'This
is the heir. Come, let's kill him, and the inheritance will be ours.'
So they took him and killed him, and threw him out of the vineyard.
What then will the owner of the vineyard do? He will come and kill
those tenants and give the vineyard to others. Haven't you read the
scripture: 'The stone the builders rejected has become the capstone;
the Lord has done this, and it is marvelous in our eyes'?" Mark
12:1-11 NIV

In this parable Jesus Christ confirms his unique Divine Sonship, his
rightful inheritance to God's estate, and his preeminence over all
creation as the last messenger from the Father.

"Do not labor for the food which perishes, but for the food which
endures to eternal life, which the Son of Man will give to you; For on
him has God the Father set his seal." John 6:27 RSV

In the light of the truth as presented from the Holy Scriptures, it
now becomes clear that Christ is the seal of prophethood and the end
of God's revelation to the world.

Yet the Scriptures do speak of Christ sending prophets to the people:

"Therefore I am sending you prophets and wise men and teachers. Some
of them you will kill and crucify; others you will flog in your
synagogues and pursue from town to town." Matthew 23:34 NIV

When we piece the data all together the conclusion is that Christ is
the final prophet sent by the Father directly to seal all revelation.
Yet Christ sends prophets by his own authority, in his own name, to
pass on that very revelation which the Father gave him:

"But to each one of us grace has been given as Christ apportioned
it... It was he who gave some to be apostles, some to be prophets,
some to be evangelists, and some to be pastors and teachers, to
prepare God's people for works of service, so that the body of Christ
may be built up until we all reach unity in the faith and in the
knowledge of the Son of God and become mature, attaining to the whole
measure of the fullness of Christ. Then we will no longer be infants,
tossed back and forth by the waves, and blown here and there by every
wind of teaching and by the cunning and craftiness of men in their
deceitful scheming. Instead, speaking the truth in love, we will in
all things grow up into him who is the Head, that is, Christ. From him
the whole body, joined and held together by every supporting ligament,
grows and builds itself up in love, as each part does its work."
Ephesians 4:7, 11-16 NIV

"The revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show his
servants what must soon take place. He made it known by sending his
angel to his servant John, who testifies to everything he saw - that
is, the word of God and the testimony of Jesus Christ. Blessed is the
one who reads the words of this prophecy, and blessed are those who
hear it and take to heart what is written in it, because the time is
near." Revelation 1:1-3 NIV

Thus, there can be no prophets to succeed Christ, only prophets who
come in the very name of the resurrected Lord proclaiming the Gospel
of God's beloved Son.


Conclusion

Having examined Dr. Badawi's pamphlet, one can easily reach the
conclusion that it is filled with logical fallacies, textual
misinterpretation and contextual errors. His paper is attempting to
strongly force the Bible into making predictions of Muhammad which
clearly do not exist. It is quite easy to read and interpret the Bible
out of context and commit the popular mistake of trying to make it fit
ones theology. It is quite another thing however, to consider the
Bible in its entirety and allow it to speak for itself on any given
topic.

We challenge the reader to search the passages in their true context
and ponder whether the Bible indeed mentions Muhammad. In light of
sound biblical exegesis, we trust that the reader can judge for
himself whether Muhammad is indeed predicted in the Bible, or is this
just another overzealous attempt to force an Islamic interpretation
upon the Holy Scriptures.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


http://answering-islam.net/Shamoun/badawi-mhd.htm

[trueman]

Oh! now he is a 'lamb of God' not 'son of God'?
Wish you guys would make up your mind.

[jwshe...@satx.rr.com]

29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold

the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

30 This is he of whom I said, After me cometh a man which is preferred
before me: for he was before me.


31 And I knew him not: but that he should be made manifest to Israel,
therefore am I come baptizing with water.


32 And John bare record, saying, I saw the Spirit descending from
heaven like a dove, and it abode upon him.


33 And I knew him not: but he that sent me to baptize with water, the
same said unto me, Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and
remaining on him, the same is he which baptizeth with the Holy Ghost.


34 And I saw, and bare record that this is the Son of God.

[duke]

A little education would do you a world of good.

[uragoner]

I have read the koran, right after 911. Basically it is treatise of
war first and foremost against Christians and Jews. It steals from the
Bible and rearranges and changes its texts to suit the writers
purpose. Its Allah, is nothing more that the fallen Lucifer.

Isaiah 14:12  How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the
morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the
nations!
13  For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I
will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the
mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
14  I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the
most High.
15  Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.

The one whom the Koran calls Lord, or Allah is forewarned of in the
Book of Revelation as one of the curses to befall the earth...

Revelation 9:11  And they had a king over them, which is the angel of
the bottomless pit, whose name in the Hebrew tongue is Abaddon, but in
the Greek tongue hath his name Apollyon.( "The Destroyer", the king
of the bottomless pit).

He has a False Prophet ... Revelation 16:13....and we see his
discription accurately foretold in the Book of Daniel as I have
already stated.

Islam is the 6th woe put on mankind from the greatest deciever as your
Koran
admits.... you call him Allah, the Bible calls him Lucifer, the god of
this
world,
2 Corinthians 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds
of
them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of
Christ, who
is the image of God, should shine unto them.

Revelation 9:13 And the sixth angel sounded, and I heard a voice from
the
four horns of the golden altar which is before God,
14 Saying to the sixth angel which had the trumpet, Loose the four
angels
which are bound in the great river Euphrates.
15 And the four angels were loosed, which were prepared for an hour,
and a
day, and a month, and a year, for to slay the third part of men.
16 And the number of the army of the horsemen were two hundred
thousand
thousand: and I heard the number of them.
17 And thus I saw the horses in the vision, and them that sat on them,
having breastplates of fire,*(suicide vests) and of jacinth, and
brimstone:
and the heads of the horses were as the heads of lions; and out of
their
mouths issued fire and smoke and brimstone.(fatwas,edicts and all the
other
virulent violence that foams out of the mouths of clerics, and imans
(as
toads out of their mouths in another place))
18 By these three was the third part of men killed, by the fire, and
by the
smoke, and by the brimstone, which issued out of their mouths.
19 For their power is in their mouth, and in their tails: for their
tails
were like unto serpents, and had heads, and with them they do hurt.
20 And the rest of the men which were not killed by these plagues yet
repented not of the works of their hands, that they should not worship
devils, and idols of gold, and silver, and brass, and stone, and of
wood:
which neither can see, nor hear, nor walk

Islam the false prophet of Revelation 16:13, and here in the book of
Daniel
in the Old Testament. Beware those who have been decieved by this
falehood.

Daniel 11:37 Neither shall he regard the God of his fathers, nor the
desire
of women, nor regard any god: for he shall magnify himself above all.
(Mohammed)

38 But in his estate shall he honour the God of forces: and a god whom

none shall help him.

[FACE]

On Thu, 3 Nov 2011 08:24:40 -0700 (PDT), in alt.religion.islam, trueman
<atru...@hotmail.com>, wrote

What difference does it make? Both terms are metaphorical, as in "in the
beginning there was the Word.... then[some millennia later], the Word was
made flesh" But someone better at it than myself can argue that point.

FACE

[ARAH]

On Nov 5, 1:12 am, uragoner <uragon...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I have read the koran, right after 911.  Basically it is treatise of
> war first and foremost against Christians and Jews. It steals from the
> Bible and rearranges and changes its texts to suit the writers
> purpose. Its Allah, is nothing more that the fallen Lucifer.

My dear uragoner,

Are you sure what you read was the translation of Al Quran? Who was
the translator?


If you read the right one you will never confuse between Allah and
Lucifer ( Syaitan)

Surah Al-Baqarah (The Cow)


1. Alif-Lam-Mim. [These letters are one of the miracles of the Qur'an
and none but Allah (Alone) knows their meanings].

2. This is the Book (the Qur'an), whereof there is no doubt, a
guidance to those who are Al-Muttaqun [the pious and righteous persons
who fear Allah much (abstain from all kinds of sins and evil deeds
which He has forbidden) and love Allah much (perform all kinds of good
deeds which He has ordained)].

3. Who believe in the Ghaib and perform As-Salat (Iqamat-as-Salat),
and spend out of what we have provided for them [i.e. give Zakat ,
spend on themselves, their parents, their children, their wives, etc.,
and also give charity to the poor and also in Allah's Cause - Jihad,
etc.].

4. And who believe in (the Qur'an and the Sunnah) which has been sent
down (revealed) to you (Muhammad Peace be upon him ) and in [the
Taurat (Torah) and the Injeel (Gospel), etc.] which were sent down
before you and they believe with certainty in the Hereafter.
(Resurrection, recompense of their good and bad deeds, Paradise and
Hell, etc.).

5. They are on (true) guidance from their Lord, and they are the
successful.

6. Verily, those who disbelieve, it is the same to them whether you (O
Muhammad Peace be upon him ) warn them or do not warn them, they will
not believe.

7. Allah has set a seal on their hearts and on their hearings, (i.e.
they are closed from accepting Allah's Guidance), and on their eyes
there is a covering. Theirs will be a great torment.

8. And of mankind, there are some (hypocrites) who say: "We believe in
Allah and the Last Day" while in fact they believe not.

9. They (think to) deceive Allah and those who believe, while they
only deceive themselves, and perceive (it) not!

10. In their hearts is a disease (of doubt and hypocrisy) and Allah
has increased their disease. A painful torment is theirs because they
used to tell lies.

11. And when it is said to them: "Make not mischief on the earth,"
they say: "We are only peacemakers."

12. Verily! They are the ones who make mischief, but they perceive
not.

13. And when it is said to them (hypocrites): "Believe as the people
(followers of Muhammad Peace be upon him , Al-Ansar and Al-Muhajirun)
have believed," they say: "Shall we believe as the fools have
believed?" Verily, they are the fools, but they know not.

14. And when they meet those who believe, they say: "We believe," but
when they are alone with their Shayatin (devils - polytheists,
hypocrites, etc.), they say: "Truly, we are with you; verily, we were
but mocking."

15. Allah mocks at them and gives them increase in their wrong-doings
to wander blindly.

16. These are they who have purchased error for guidance, so their
commerce was profitless. And they were not guided.

17. Their likeness is as the likeness of one who kindled a fire; then,
when it lighted all around him, Allah took away their light and left
them in darkness. (So) they could not see.

18. They are deaf, dumb, and blind, so they return not (to the Right
Path).

19. Or like a rainstorm from the sky, wherein is darkness, thunder,
and lightning. They thrust their fingers in their ears to keep out the
stunning thunderclap for fear of death. But Allah ever encompasses the
disbelievers (i.e. Allah will gather them all together).

20. The lightning almost snatches away their sight, whenever it
flashes for them, they walk therein, and when darkness covers them,
they stand still. And if Allah willed, He could have taken away their
hearing and their sight. Certainly, Allah has power over all things.

21. O mankind! Worship your Lord (Allah), Who created you and those
who were before you so that you may become Al-Muttaqun (the pious -
see V.2:2).

22. Who has made the earth a resting place for you, and the sky as a
canopy, and sent down water (rain) from the sky and brought forth
therewith fruits as a provision for you. Then do not set up rivals
unto Allah (in worship) while you know (that He Alone has the right to
be worshipped).

23. And if you (Arab pagans, Jews, and Christians) are in doubt
concerning that which We have sent down (i.e. the Qur'an) to Our slave
(Muhammad Peace be upon him ), then produce a Surah (chapter) of the
like thereof and call your witnesses (supporters and helpers) besides
Allah, if you are truthful.

24. But if you do it not, and you can never do it, then fear the Fire
(Hell) whose fuel is men and stones, prepared for the disbelievers.

25. And give glad tidings to those who believe and do righteous good
deeds, that for them will be Gardens under which rivers flow
(Paradise). Every time they will be provided with a fruit therefrom,
they will say: "This is what we were provided with before," and they
will be given things in resemblance (i.e. in the same form but
different in taste) and they shall have therein Azwajun Mutahharatun
(purified mates or wives), (having no menses, stools, urine, etc.) and
they will abide therein forever.

26. Verily, Allah is not ashamed to set forth a parable even of a
mosquito or so much more when it is bigger (or less when it is
smaller) than it. And as for those who believe, they know that it is
the Truth from their Lord, but as for those who disbelieve, they say:
"What did Allah intend by this parable?" By it He misleads many, and
many He guides thereby. And He misleads thereby only those who are Al-
Fasiqun (the rebellious, disobedient to Allah).

27. Those who break Allah's Covenant after ratifying it, and sever
what Allah has ordered to be joined (as regards Allah's Religion of
Islamic Monotheism, and to practise its legal laws on the earth and
also as regards keeping good relations with kith and kin ), and do
mischief on earth, it is they who are the losers.

28. How can you disbelieve in Allah? Seeing that you were dead and He
gave you life. Then He will give you death, then again will bring you
to life (on the Day of Resurrection) and then unto Him you will
return.

29. He it is Who created for you all that is on earth. Then He Istawa
(rose over) towards the heaven and made them seven heavens and He is
the All-Knower of everything.

30. And (remember) when your Lord said to the angels: "Verily, I am
going to place (mankind) generations after generations on earth." They
said: "Will You place therein those who will make mischief therein and
shed blood, - while we glorify You with praises and thanks (Exalted be
You above all that they associate with You as partners) and sanctify
You." He (Allah) said: "I know that which you do not know."

31. And He taught Adam all the names (of everything) , then He showed
them to the angels and said, "Tell Me the names of these if you are
truthful."

32. They (angels) said: "Glory be to You, we have no knowledge except
what you have taught us. Verily, it is You, the All-Knower, the All-
Wise."

33. He said: "O Adam! Inform them of their names," and when he had
informed them of their names, He said: "Did I not tell you that I know
the Ghaib (unseen) in the heavens and the earth, and I know what you
reveal and what you have been concealing?"

34. And (remember) when We said to the angels: "Prostrate yourselves
before Adam.". And they prostrated except Iblis (Satan), he refused
and was proud and was one of the disbelievers (disobedient to Allah).

35. And We said: "O Adam! Dwell you and your wife in the Paradise and
eat both of you freely with pleasure and delight of things therein as
wherever you will, but come not near this tree or you both will be of
the Zalimun (wrong-doers)."

36. Then the Shaitan (Satan) made them slip therefrom (the Paradise),
and got them out from that in which they were. We said: "Get you down,
all, with enmity between yourselves. On earth will be a dwelling place
for you and an enjoyment for a time."

37. Then Adam received from his Lord Words . And his Lord pardoned him
(accepted his repentance). Verily, He is the One Who forgives (accepts
repentance), the Most Merciful.

38. We said: "Get down all of you from this place (the Paradise), then
whenever there comes to you Guidance from Me, and whoever follows My
Guidance, there shall be no fear on them, nor shall they grieve.

39. But those who disbelieve and belie Our Ayat (proofs, evidences,
verses, lessons, signs, revelations, etc.) such are the dwellers of
the Fire, they shall abide therein forever.

Continue reading

http://www.dar-us-salam.com/TheNobleQuran/surah2.html

[ARAH]

Why the title Lamb of God for Jesus appears only in the Gospel of John
not in the other Gospels,

: "Behold the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world" in John
1:29, the title reaffirmed the next day in John 1:36.[1]

The second use of the title Lamb of God takes place in the presence of
the first two apostles of Jesus, who immediately follow him, address
him as Rabbi with respect and later in the narrative bring others to
meet him

Maybe duke and RL can give the answer?

On Nov 5, 4:30 am, FACE <AFaceInTheCr...@today.net> wrote:
> On Thu, 3 Nov 2011 08:24:40 -0700 (PDT),  in alt.religion.islam,  trueman

> <atruem...@hotmail.com>, wrote

[arah]

On Nov 3, 11:08 pm, jwsheffi...@satx.rr.com wrote:
> Muhammad in the Bible
> Sam Shamoun
>
> For centuries Muslim scholars have objected to the Christian notion of
> the Lordship of Christ. They emphatically state that Christians are
> unaware of the prophecies in their own Scripture which point to the
> advent of Muhammad. Dr. Jamal Badawi's pamphlet titled, "Muhammad in
> the Bible" is an obvious case in point.

On Nov 3, 11:08 pm, jwsheffi...@satx.rr.com wrote:
> Muhammad in the Bible
> Sam Shamoun
>
> For centuries Muslim scholars have objected to the Christian notion of
> the Lordship of Christ. They emphatically state that Christians are
> unaware of the prophecies in their own Scripture which point to the
> advent of Muhammad. Dr. Jamal Badawi's pamphlet titled, "Muhammad in
> the Bible" is an obvious case in point.

jwsheffi

Thank you for posting article by Sam Shamoun

Let us enjoy more joke from him

http://www.muslimvideo.com/tv/search_result.php?search_id=shamoun

[jwshe...@satx.rr.com]

The Complete Infidel's Guide to the Koran [Paperback]
Robert Spencer (Author)


Book Description
Publication Date: September 21, 2009
Written in an extremely accessible style by bestselling author Robert
Spencer, "The Complete Infidel's Guide to the Koran" is a fact-based
but light-hearted look at the key elements, values, and beliefs in the
Koran.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Editorial Reviews
From the Inside Flap
The Koran: It may be the most controversial book in the world. Some
see it as a paean to peace, others call it a violent mandate for
worldwide Islamic supremacy.
How can one book lead to such dramatically different conclusions? New
York Times bestselling author Robert Spencer reveals the truth in The
Complete Infidel's Guide to the Koran: not many Westerners know what's
in the Koran, since so few have actually read it -- even among the
legions of politicians, diplomats, analysts, and editorial writers who
vehemently insist that the Koran preaches tolerance.

Now, Spencer unveils the mysteries lying behind this powerful book,
guiding readers through the controversies surrounding the Koran's
origins and its most contentious passages. Stripping out the obsolete
debates, Spencer focuses on the Koran's decrees toward Jews,
Christians, and other Infidels, explaining how they were viewed in
Muhammad's time, what they've supposedly done wrong, and most
important, what the Koran has in store for them.


From the Back Cover
Praise for The Complete Infidel's Guide to the Koran
" Meticulous, comprehensive, indispensable. `I read the Koran so you
don't have to,' Spencer writes--but even for those of us who have read
the Koran, this is a richly illuminating work."
--Bruce Bawer, author of Surrender: Appeasing Islam, Sacrificing
Freedom and While Europe Slept

" Governing officials and media spokesmen may ignore Spencer's
warnings, but they do so at their own risk, because Islamic jihadists
are not ignoring what's in the Koran, and are working to destroy our
freedoms in obedience to Koranic dictates. In illuminating for
Westerners exactly what the Koran teaches, Spencer has performed a
valuable service in the defense of Western civilization against the
Islamic jihad."
--Geert Wilders, Member of Parliament and Chairman of the Party for
Freedom (PVV), the Netherlands

" Unlike most of today's self-styled experts, Robert Spencer won't
tell you that `slay the idolaters wherever you find them' really means
`love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you.' In The
Complete Infidel's Guide to the Koran, Spencer shows once again that
he is America's most informed, fearless, and compelling voice on
modern jihadism, insisting that we come to grips with the words behind
the ideology that fuels international terror."
--Andrew C. McCarthy, senior fellow at the National Review Institute
and author of Willful Blindness: A Memoir of the Jihad

http://www.amazon.com/Complete-Infidels-Guide-Koran/dp/1596981040

[arah]

On Nov 5, 11:22 am, jwsheffi...@satx.rr.com wrote:
> The Complete Infidel's Guide to the Koran [Paperback]
> Robert Spencer (Author)
>
> Book Description
> Publication Date: September 21, 2009
> Written in an extremely accessible style by bestselling author Robert
> Spencer, "The Complete Infidel's Guide to the Koran" is a fact-based
> but light-hearted look at the key elements, values, and beliefs in the
> Koran.
>

Thank you for mentioning Robert Spencer.

May be you missed my previous comments regarding Robert Spencer .

Can you trust someone who wrote a book without doing proper research
and home work.

Robert Spencer wrote Religion of Peace?: Why Christianity Is and Islam
Isn't

Who is he to consider Christianity a religion of Peace when Jesus said
otherwise:

Matthew 10:34
Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not
come to bring peace, but a sword.
New Living Translation (©2007)

"Don't imagine that I came to bring peace to the earth! I came not to
bring peace, but a sword.

English Standard Version (©2001)
“Do not think that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I have not
come to bring peace, but a sword.

New American Standard Bible (©1995)
"Do not think that I came to bring peace on the earth; I did not come
to bring peace, but a sword.

King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)
Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send
peace, but a sword.


Luke 12:51 Do you think I came to bring peace on earth? No, I tell
you, but division.

Revelation 6:4 Then another horse came out, a fiery red one. Its rider
was given power to take peace from the earth and to make men slay each
other. To him was given a large sword.

Did History proved Christianity is a religion of peace?

http://www.truthbeknown.com/victims.htm

[jwshe...@satx.rr.com]

Religion of Peace?:
Why Christianity Is and Islam Isn't [Hardcover]

Robert Spencer (Author)


Book Description

Publication Date: July 17, 2007
Christianity or Islam: which is the real "religion of peace"?
Almost any liberal pundit will tell you that there's a religion bent
on destroying our Constitution, stripping us of our liberties, and
imposing religious rule on the U.S. And that religion
is . . .Christianity! About Islam, however, the Left is silent--except
to claim a moral equivalence between the two: if Islam has terrorists
today, that's nothing compared to the Crusades, inquisitions, and
religious wars in Christianity's past.

But is this true? Are conservative Christians really more of a threat
to free societies than Islamic jihadists? Is the Bible really "just as
violent" as the Qur'an? Is Christianity's history really as
bloodstained as Islam's? In Religion of Peace? Why Christianity Is and
Islam Isn't, New York Times bestselling author Robert Spencer not only
refutes such charges, but also explains why Americans and Europeans
must regain an appreciation of our Christian heritage if we ever hope
to defeat Islamic supremacism. In this eye opening work, Spencer
reveals:

* The fundamental differences between Islamic and Christian teachings
about warfare against other religions: "Love your enemies" vs. "Be
ruthless to the unbelievers"

* The myth of Western immorality and Islamic puritanism and why the
Islamic world is less moral than the West

* Why the Islamic world has never developed the distinction between
religious and secular law that is inherent in Christianity

* Why Christianity has always embraced reason--and Islam has always
rejected it

* Why the most determined enemies of Western civilization may not be
the jihadists at all, but the leftists who fear their churchgoing
neighbors more than Islamic terrorists

* Why Jews, Christians, and peoples of other faiths (or no faith) are
equally at risk from militant Islam

Spencer writes not to proselytize, but to state a fact: Christianity
is a true "religion of peace," and on it Western civilization stands.
If we are not to perish under Islam's religion of the sword--with its
more than 100 million active jihadists seeking to impose sharia law--
we had better defend our own civilization.

http://www.amazon.com/Religion-Peace-Christianity-Islam-Isnt/dp/1596985151#_

[duke]

"Word" was used with the Greek audience of John's gospel as Word carried a very
important significance to them. The reference to "lamb" is two-fold. The first
goes back to "unblemished lamb" in Isaac and then the ram and then the passover
meal for Jews at the Exodus. The 2nd in Jesus is as prefigured by the first and
subsequently Jesus was born and shared the new baby lambs status. Swaddling
clothing is rags used to wipe up the new lamb mess on the floor.

[uragoner]

Allah is a liar and so is his prophet, and you have been deceived by
them. The time is soon coming when 1/3 of mankind shall be consumed
and ...Mecca

[duke]

On Fri, 4 Nov 2011 18:19:37 -0700 (PDT), ARAH <arah...@gmail.com> wrote:

>Why the title Lamb of God for Jesus appears only in the Gospel of John
>not in the other Gospels,

John was addressing a Greek audience.

>: "Behold the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world" in John
>1:29, the title reaffirmed the next day in John 1:36.[1]
>
>The second use of the title Lamb of God takes place in the presence of
>the first two apostles of Jesus, who immediately follow him, address
>him as Rabbi with respect and later in the narrative bring others to
>meet him
>
>Maybe duke and RL can give the answer?

rl??? You're kidding.

[FACE]

On Sat, 05 Nov 2011 11:20:46 -0500, in alt.religion.islam, duke
<duckg...@cox.net>, wrote

>On Fri, 04 Nov 2011 16:30:43 -0400, FACE <AFaceIn...@today.net> wrote:
>
>>On Thu, 3 Nov 2011 08:24:40 -0700 (PDT), in alt.religion.islam, trueman
>><atru...@hotmail.com>, wrote
>>
>>>On 31 oct, 15:34, jwsheffi...@satx.rr.com wrote:
>>>> On Oct 31, 7:15 am, arah <arah1...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> "What has all this to do with John the Baptist?????  "
>>>>
>>>> Joh 1:29 -The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith,
>>>>               Behold the Lamb of God,
>>>>               which taketh away the sin of the world.
>>>
>>>Oh! now he is a 'lamb of God' not 'son of God'?
>>>Wish you guys would make up your mind.
>>
>>What difference does it make? Both terms are metaphorical, as in "in the
>>beginning there was the Word.... then[some millennia later], the Word was
>>made flesh" But someone better at it than myself can argue that point.
>
>"Word" was used with the Greek audience of John's gospel as Word carried a very
>important significance to them.

>The reference to "lamb" is two-fold. The first
>goes back to "unblemished lamb" in Isaac and then the ram and then the passover
>meal for Jews at the Exodus.

I came across this:

"The early Jewish believers in Jesus considered him the fulfillment of the
Passover lambs that were yearly sacrificed. "

Now that makes simple sense -- the last blood sacrifice........

"Thus Paul, a Jewish Christian who had studied under Rabbi Gamaliel.
wrote, "Messiah, our pesach, has been sacrificed for us" (1 Corinthians
5:7). John in his gospel noted that Jesus died at the same time that the
Passover lambs were being slaughtered in the Temple (see John 19:14) and
that like the Passover lambs, none of his bones were broken (the others
being crucified had their leg bones broken by the Romans - John 19:32, 33,
36)."

Ok.....

"The idea behind all this was that just as the Israelites were redeemed
from Egyptian slavery by an unblemished lamb, now men could be freed from
slavery to sin by the Messiah, the Lamb of God."

And that last is pretty intricate.

Source for quoted material:
http://www.menorah.org/the%20messiah%20in%20the%20passover.html

FACE

[duke]

True.

>Ok.....

>"The idea behind all this was that just as the Israelites were redeemed
>from Egyptian slavery by an unblemished lamb, now men could be freed from
>slavery to sin by the Messiah, the Lamb of God."

>And that last is pretty intricate.
>Source for quoted material:
>http://www.menorah.org/the%20messiah%20in%20the%20passover.html

Uh. Where were the Jews redeemed by an unblemished lamb? God moved pagan
Abraham from bbq-ing his own unblemished son to bbq unblemished ram. I can see
one blood sacrifice for another and then to a third in Jesus Christ as
appeasement to God

All mankind is a sinner by nature, and hence we are slaves to sin. The Messiah
lived life fully as flesh except he never sinned even to the cross. Thus God
raised the flesh to new life on the 3rd day before then raising him to his right
hand. We by our Christian baptism become part "of the team", and by seeking to
live life avoiding sin (even though we can't) we too can follow him all the way
to God.

[FACE]

On Sun, 06 Nov 2011 09:25:57 -0600, in alt.religion.islam, duke

****

>>"The idea behind all this was that just as the Israelites were redeemed
>>from Egyptian slavery by an unblemished lamb, now men could be freed from
>>slavery to sin by the Messiah, the Lamb of God."
>
>>And that last is pretty intricate.
>>Source for quoted material:
>>http://www.menorah.org/the%20messiah%20in%20the%20passover.html

****

>
>Uh. Where were the Jews redeemed by an unblemished lamb?

I had the same question of the part 'redeemed from Egyptian slavery by an
unblemished lamb' which is why i said "intricate" -- probably not the
best word.

FACE

[duke]

I guess we're both in the dark on that one.

[arah]

On Nov 5, 7:21 pm, uragoner <uragon...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Allah is a liar and so is his prophet, and you have been deceived by
> them.

If Allah is a liar why Christians in Malaysia fighting with their
government to used Allah?

Quran confirmed Christians and Muslims worshipping the same God /
Allah:
N.H. Chan


Why I decided to write on why the Deity Allah is not owned by Muslims
only.

I wrote the series of articles on Allah to put forward the Christians’
point of view on why they are entitled to use the word Allah in their
Malay-language bibles. I felt it was unfair for the people in power to
use governmental clout to prevent Christians from calling their God
Allah.

And when these myopic politicians started to desecrate the Christians’
holy book that became the catalyst which really drove me to write so
as to inform the public that it is not anyone’s right to claim
ownership of an Arabic word which was in use by the Jews and the Arabs
since the time of Abraham and his descendants, or even much earlier
i.e. from the time of the descendants of Shem the eldest of the three
sons of Noah who were regarded as the ethnic group of peoples known as
the Semites or Shemites who spoke a Semitic language.

And Arabic and Hebrew are two Semitic languages. The Arabic word Allah
meaning “The God” had been used by God’s people for thousands of years
before Jesus was born and before Mohammad’s Call, the legendary
revelation of Allah in 611 AD.

But then there are certain people who think that to mention that
Christians worship the same God as Muslims do is sacrilege

It looks like there are some Malay-Muslims, and some other people of
unknown faiths, who maintain that it is heresy to say in my articles
that Christians worship the same God as Muslims do. They say Muslims
worship only one God and that is Allah but Christians worship three
persons called the Trinity.

But do these misinformed Muslims know what they are talking about when
the word “trinity” is not found in the Bible? Can they tell us why
they say that Christians worship three persons when this is not even
mentioned in the Bible? Or are these people just paying lip service to
keep up with the Joneses to upstage the Christians’ faith without
knowing the reason why they are doing that?

I think it is mean, unseemly and unbefitting of such narrow-minded
Malay-Muslims to decry the Christians, who believe in the same God as
Muslims, that Christians are polytheistic by relying on a baseless
assumption that Christians worship three persons. But how can anyone
say that when there is not even a tittle of evidence to support such
an unfounded assumption? In truth Christians are as monotheistic as
Muslims. Indeed both faiths worship the same deity who is God or Allah
depending on whether your Bible is in English or in Malay or Arabic.

I find it most disconcerting as an observer, who is neither Christian
nor Muslim, to see those narrow-minded followers of Islam defy their
own Allah by not accepting the followers of Jesus who, according to
the Quran, was created by Allah to receive His revelation and be His
prophet.

The Quran says that Jesus was made by Allah to propagate the teachings
of Allah

When the Quran has acknowledged that Jesus was created by Allah to
deliver the teachings of Allah, who are they — I am referring to the
narrow-minded Malay-Muslims — to object to the Christians calling
their deity Allah? They should not assume that all Christians are
English speaking! Many Christians in this country, especially those in
east Malaysia, can only read the Malay Bible. English, which is a
foreign language, is quite unfathomable to them. A rudimentary
knowledge of English is not good enough to understand the Bible
because the King James Bible is not an easy read.

I quote below from the Yusuf Ali Translation:

The Holy Quran (Yusuf Ali Translation)
Surah 19, Maryam (Mary)
27. At length she brought the (babe) to her people, carrying him (in
her arms). They said: “O Mary! truly an amazing thing hast thou
brought!
28. “O sister of Aaron! Thy father was not a man of evil, nor thy
mother a woman unchaste!”
29. But she pointed to the babe. They said: “How can we talk to one
who is a child in the cradle?”
30. He said: “I am indeed a servant of Allah. He hath given me
revelation and made me a prophet;
31. “And He hath made me blessed wheresoever I be, and hath enjoined
on me Prayer and Charity as long as I live;
32. “(He) hath made me kind to my mother, and not overbearing or
miserable;
33. “So peace is on me the day I was born, the day that I die, and the
day that I shall be raised up to life (again)”!
34. Such (was) Jesus the son of Mary: (it is) a statement of truth,
about which they (vainly) dispute.
35. It is not befitting to (the majesty of) Allah that He should beget
a son. Glory be to Him! when He determines a matter, He only says to
it, “Be”, and it is.
36. Verily Allah is my Lord and your Lord: Him therefore serve ye:
this is a Way that is straight.
37. But the sects differ among themselves: and woe to the unbelievers
because of the (coming) Judgment of a Momentous Day!
38. How plainly will they see and hear, the Day that they will appear
before Us! but the unjust today are in error manifest!
39. But warn them of the Day of Distress, when the matter will be
determined: for (behold,) they are negligent and they do not believe!
40. It is We Who will inherit the earth, and all beings thereon: to Us
will they all be returned.
41. (Also mention in the Book (the story of) Abraham: He was a man of
Truth, a prophet.

The above is what the Quran says about Jesus; verse 34: “Such (was)
Jesus the son of Mary: (it is) a statement of truth, about which they
vainly dispute.” and verse 35: “It is not befitting (to the majesty
of) Allah that He should beget a son. Glory be to Him! When He
determines a matter, He only says to it, ‘Be’, and it is.” From this
it is clear that Jesus was created or made by Allah to be His prophet
to perform a specific task which is to spread the teachings of Allah.

In these verses of Surah 19 of the Quran, Jesus said:
30. … “I am indeed a servant of Allah. He hath given me revelation and
made me a prophet;
31. “And He hath made me blessed wheresoever I be, and hath enjoined
on me Prayer and Charity as long as I live;
32. “(He) hath made me kind to my mother, and not overbearing or
miserable;
33. “So peace is on me the day I was born, the day that I die, and the
day that I shall be raised up to life (again)”!

Thus it is proclaimed in the Quran that Jesus the son of Mary is a
statement of truth. The Quran also says that Jesus is a servant of
Allah who gave a revelation to him and made him a prophet. So those
who doubt, namely the aforesaid uninitiated Malay-Muslims, the
teachings of Jesus in the New Testament should hold their tongue for
it is unbefitting of them to dispute what is said in the Quran!

http://www.heraldmalaysia.com/news/Quran-confirmed-Christians-and-Muslims-worshipping-the-same-God-Allah-N.H.-Chan-8931-0-1.html

[jwshe...@satx.rr.com]

On Nov 12, 3:46 am, arah <arah1...@gmail.com> wrote:

"But do these misinformed Muslims know what they are talking about
when
the word “trinity” is not found in the Bible? "

Gen 18:1 ¶ And the LORD appeared unto him in the plains of Mamre: and
he sat in the tent door in the heat of the day;


Gen 18:2 And he lift up his eyes and looked, and, lo, three men
stood by him: and when he saw [them], he ran to meet them from the
tent door, and bowed himself toward the ground,


Gen 18:3 And said, My Lord, if now I have found favour in thy
sight, pass not away, I pray thee, from thy servant:

Notice: three persons, one Lord

Philo lived c.20 BC-c.AD 50 ...

http://answers.encyclopedia.com/question/did-philo-live-367023.html

Philo writes:

...it is reasonable for one to be three and for three to be one, for
they were one by a higher principle... ...he makes the appearance of a
trinity [triad]... He cannot be seen in his oneness without something
[else], the chief Powers that that exist immediately with him... the
Creative, which is called "God" and the Kingly, which is called
"Lord"... [Abraham] begins to see the sovereign, holy, and divine
vision in such a way that single appearance appears as a trinity
[triad], and the trinity [triad] as a unity.
(Philo; Questions on Genesis, IV, 2)


http://www.iloveulove.com/spirituality/kabbalah/kabbachurch.htm


Mat 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them
in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

Notice: Name singular, three persons

[FACE]

On Sat, 12 Nov 2011 01:46:50 -0800 (PST), in alt.religion.islam, arah
<arah...@gmail.com>, wrote

<snip>

> A rudimentary
>knowledge of English is not good enough to understand the Bible
>because the King James Bible is not an easy read.
>
>I quote below from the Yusuf Ali Translation:
>
>The Holy Quran (Yusuf Ali Translation)
>Surah 19, Maryam (Mary)
>27. At length she brought the (babe) to her people, carrying him (in
>her arms). They said: “O Mary! truly an amazing thing hast thou
>brought!

****

>28. “O sister of Aaron!

****

>Thy father was not a man of evil, nor thy
>mother a woman unchaste!”

<snip>

In the dumbest of errors contest, Mo calling the mother of Jesus, Mary,
the sister of Aaron may be the winner. It shows how little was his
knowledge of the bible he repeatedly plagiarized,

Aaron, son of Amran, did have a sister named Miriam (Mary), he also had a
brother named Moses -- some 1400 or so years before Mary of Nazareth, who
had no brother named Aaron.

Kablam! Your shot to your foot was on target, arah.

FACE

[arah]

On Nov 13, 3:10 am, FACE <AFaceInTheCr...@today.net> wrote:
> On Sat, 12 Nov 2011 01:46:50 -0800 (PST),  in alt.religion.islam,  arah

> <arah1...@gmail.com>, wrote

>
> <snip>
>
>
>
>
>
> > A rudimentary
> >knowledge of English is not good enough to understand the Bible
> >because the King James Bible is not an easy read.
>
> >I quote below from the Yusuf Ali Translation:
>
> >The Holy Quran (Yusuf Ali Translation)
> >Surah 19, Maryam (Mary)
> >27. At length she brought the (babe) to her people, carrying him (in
> >her arms). They said: “O Mary! truly an amazing thing hast thou
> >brought!
> ****
> >28. “O sister of Aaron!
> ****
> >Thy father was not a man of evil, nor thy
> >mother a woman unchaste!”
>
> <snip>
>
> In the dumbest of errors contest, Mo calling the mother of Jesus, Mary,
> the sister of Aaron may be the winner.  It shows how little was his
> knowledge of the bible he repeatedly plagiarized,

It Ok to make mistake but please ensure you do your homework before
calling some dumb. One finger we pointed to others there are three
other fingers pointed to ourselves.

Let check with other translation of the Quran beside Yusof Ali

.1. Kaf- Ha-Ya-'Ain-Sad.

[These letters are one of the miracles of the Qur'an, and none but

Allah (Alone) knows their meanings].

2. (This is) a mention of the mercy of your Lord to His slave Zakariya
(Zachariah).

3. When he called out his Lord (Allah) a call in secret,

4. Saying: "My Lord! Indeed my bones have grown feeble, and grey hair
has spread on my head, And I have never been unblest in my invocation
to You, O my Lord!

5. "And Verily! I fear my relatives after me, since my wife is barren.
So give me from Yourself an heir,

6. "Who shall inherit me, and inherit (also) the posterity of Ya'qub
(Jacob) (inheritance of the religious knowledge and Prophethood, not
the wealth, etc.). And make him, my Lord, one with whom You are Well-
pleased!".

7. (Allah said) "O Zakariya (Zachariah)! Verily, We give you the glad
tidings of a son, His name will be Yahya (John). We have given that
name to none before (him)."

8. He said: "My Lord! How can I have a son, when my wife is barren,
and I have reached the extreme old age."

9. He said: "So (it will be). Your Lord says; It is easy for Me.
Certainly I have created you before, when you had been nothing!"

10. [Zakariya (Zachariah)] said: "My Lord! Appoint for me a sign." He
said: "Your sign is that you shall not speak unto mankind for three
nights, though having no bodily defect."

11. Then he came out to his people from Al-Mihrab (a praying place or
a private room, etc.), he told them by signs to glorify Allah's
Praises in the morning and in the afternoon.

12. (It was said to his son): "O Yahya (John)! Hold fast the Scripture
[the Taurat (Torah)]." And We gave him wisdom while yet a child.

13. And (made him) sympathetic to men as a mercy (or a grant) from Us,
and pure from sins [i.e. Yahya (John)] and he was righteous,

14. And dutiful towards his parents, and he was neither an arrogant
nor disobedient (to Allah or to his parents).

15. And Salamun (peace) be on him the day he was born, the day he
dies, and the day he will be raised up to life (again)!

16. And mention in the Book (the Qur'an, O Muhammad , the story of)
Maryam (Mary), when she withdrew in seclusion from her family to a
place facing east.

17. She placed a screen (to screen herself) from them; then We sent to
her Our Ruh [angel Jibrael (Gabriel)], and he appeared before her in
the form of a man in all respects.

18. She said: "Verily! I seek refuge with the Most Beneficent (Allah)
from you, if you do fear Allah."

19. (The angel) said: "I am only a Messenger from your Lord, (to
announce) to you the gift of a righteous son."

20. She said: "How can I have a son, when no man has touched me, nor
am I unchaste?"

21. He said: "So (it will be), your Lord said: 'That is easy for Me
(Allah): And (We wish) to appoint him as a sign to mankind and a mercy
from Us (Allah), and it is a matter (already) decreed, (by Allah).' "

22. So she conceived him, and she withdrew with him to a far place
(i.e. Bethlehem valley about 4-6 miles from Jerusalem).

23. And the pains of childbirth drove her to the trunk of a date-palm.
She said: "Would that I had died before this, and had been forgotten
and out of sight!"

24. Then [the babe 'Iesa (Jesus) or Jibrael (Gabriel)] cried unto her
from below her, saying: "Grieve not! Your Lord has provided a water
stream under you;

25. "And shake the trunk of date-palm towards you, it will let fall
fresh ripe-dates upon you."

26. "So eat and drink and be glad, and if you see any human being,
say: 'Verily! I have vowed a fast unto the Most Beneficent (Allah) so
I shall not speak to any human being this day.'"

27. Then she brought him (the baby) to her people, carrying him. They
said: "O Mary! Indeed you have brought a thing Fariya (an unheard
mighty thing).

28. "O sister (i.e. the like) of Harun (Aaron) [not the brother of
Musa (Moses), but he was another pious man at the time of Maryam
(Mary)]! Your father was not a man who used to commit adultery, nor
your mother was an unchaste woman."

29. Then she pointed to him. They said: "How can we talk to one who is

a child in the cradle?"

30. "He ['Iesa (Jesus)] said: Verily! I am a slave of Allah, He has
given me the Scripture and made me a Prophet;"

31. "And He has made me blessed wheresoever I be, and has enjoined on
me Salat (prayer), and Zakat, as long as I live."

32. "And dutiful to my mother, and made me not arrogant, unblest.

33. "And Salam (peace) be upon me the day I was born, and the day I
die, and the day I shall be raised alive!"

34. Such is 'Iesa (Jesus), son of Maryam (Mary). (it is) a statement
of truth, about which they doubt (or dispute).

35. It befits not (the Majesty of) Allah that He should beget a son
[this refers to the slander of Christians against Allah, by saying
that 'Iesa (Jesus) is the son of Allah]. Glorified (and Exalted be He
above all that they associate with Him). When He decrees a thing, He
only says to it, "Be!" and it is.

36. ['Iesa (Jesus) said]: "And verily Allah is my Lord and your Lord.
So worship Him (Alone). That is the Straight Path. (Allah's Religion
of Islamic Monotheism which He did ordain for all of His
Prophets)." [Tafsir At-Tabari]

37. Then the sects differed [i.e. the Christians about 'Iesa (Jesus)],
so woe unto the disbelievers [those who gave false witness by saying
that 'Iesa (Jesus) is the son of Allah] from the meeting of a great
Day (i.e. the Day of Resurrection, when they will be thrown in the
blazing Fire).

38. How clearly will they (polytheists and disbelievers in the Oneness
of Allah) see and hear, the Day when they will appear before Us! But
the Zalimun (polytheists and wrong-doers) today are in plain error.

39. And warn them (O Muhammad ) of the Day of grief and regrets, when
the case has been decided, while (now) they are in a state of
carelessness, and they believe not.



References

http://noblequran.com/translation/surah19.html

Where you find a more detail story of Mary in the bible or the Quran?

[jwshe...@satx.rr.com]

http://www.assyriatimes.com/engine/modules/news/article.php?storyid=3182

THE QUR’AN: MISINTERPRETED, MISTRANSLATED, AND MISREAD
3/21/2006 19:53:04
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE

THE SYRIAC-ARAMAIC LANGUAGE OF THE QUR’AN

For the first time in history, a book is written to reveal that the
language of the Qur’an is Aramaic, not Arabic. The Aramaic language of
the Qur’an renders interpretations that are different from what Muslim
commentators rendered in the last fourteen centuries.

The Eastern Syriac dialect of Aramaic is dominant in the Qur’an, and
many chapters are borrowed from Biblical Hebrew, but were
misinterpreted by Muslim commentators.

Not understanding the Aramaic language of the Qur’an, and not being
familiar with the development of its revelations, Muslim commentators
rendered erroneous interpretations to the book. Such erroneous
interpretations led to the rise of Islamic fundamentalists, such as
Usama Bin Laden and other terrorist organizations.

Erroneous interpretations of the Qur’an caused a huge gap between
Islam and other civilizations, mainly the West. The gap is apparent in
religious, social, political, and economic development.

The Aramaic language of the Qur’an calls for the treatment of women
with decency. In Aramaic, the Qur’an does not command women to cover
their faces. It does not state that men are guardians over women.

Misunderstanding the Aramaic language of the Qur’an resulted in false
interpretations. For example: Muslim commentators state that there are
virgin women in heaven with wide eyes waiting for men who engage in
Jihad. The Aramaic language of the Qur’an does not imply that at all.
The Qur’anic verse says: “there is water and white raisins”. For the
first time in history, a book is written to reveal that the language
of the Qur’an is Aramaic, not Arabic. The Aramaic language of the
Qur’an renders interpretations that are different from what Muslim
commentators rendered in the last fourteen centuries.

Muslims believe that the Prophet Muhammad was carried out, in a night
journey, from the Mosque at Mecca to the al-Aqsa Mosque in Jerusalem.
In Aramaic, the Qur’anic verse has a different meaning; it says that
“during the night, Allah bestowed his blessings on his servant. In
addition, the Al-Aqsa Mosque was built towards the end of the seventh
centuries, years after the death of the Prophet of Islam.

Gabriel Sawma is a lawyer with emphasis on International Law
www.gabrielsawma.blogspot.com, Professor of Aramaic, and a recognized
authority on Islamic studies. He is expert on the Aramaic influence on
the Qur’an and on Biblical Hebrew. He speaks, reads, and writes
Arabic, Aramaic, and Hebrew. He authored many articles on the Aramaic
language, www.aramnaharaim.org/AramaicJesus.htm

The book will be released in paperback, in mid April 2006. It will be
available for sale on Ebay, Amazon.com and other book distribution
channels. For more information, contact the author.

Gabriel Sawma
P.O. Box 112,
Plainsboro, NJ 08536
Tel. (609) 915-2237
Fax (609) 275-0355
Email: gabrie...@yahoo.com
URL: www.syriacaramaicquran.com

[FACE]

On Sun, 13 Nov 2011 02:40:55 -0800 (PST), in alt.religion.islam, arah
<arah...@gmail.com>, wrote

>On Nov 13, 3:10 am, FACE <AFaceInTheCr...@today.net> wrote:
>> On Sat, 12 Nov 2011 01:46:50 -0800 (PST),  in alt.religion.islam,  arah
>> <arah1...@gmail.com>, wrote
>>
>> <snip>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> > A rudimentary
>> >knowledge of English is not good enough to understand the Bible
>> >because the King James Bible is not an easy read.
>>
>> >I quote below from the Yusuf Ali Translation:
>>
>> >The Holy Quran (Yusuf Ali Translation)
>> >Surah 19, Maryam (Mary)
>> >27. At length she brought the (babe) to her people, carrying him (in
>> >her arms). They said: “O Mary! truly an amazing thing hast thou
>> >brought!
>> ****
>> >28. “O sister of Aaron!
>> ****
>> >Thy father was not a man of evil, nor thy
>> >mother a woman unchaste!”
>>
>> <snip>
>>
>> In the dumbest of errors contest, Mo calling the mother of Jesus, Mary,
>> the sister of Aaron may be the winner.  It shows how little was his

>> knowledge of the bible he repeatedly plagiarized.

>>Aaron, son of Amran, did have a sister named Miriam (Mary), he also had a
>>brother named Moses -- some 1400 or so years before Mary of Nazareth, who
>>had no brother named Aaron.
>>
>>Kablam! Your shot to your foot was on target, arah.
>>
>>FACE
>
>

>It Ok to make mistake but please ensure you do your homework before
>calling some dumb. One finger we pointed to others there are three
>other fingers pointed to ourselves.

You really should not make yourself so weak and stupid as to try to take
up for this stupidly ridiculous error of the desert pirate mo -- or you
would you call it "god's word".

>
>Let check with other translation of the Quran beside Yusof Ali

Yusuf Ali did not translate any quran, he translated the koran. Check the
early copies....

Like most muslims, you know much less than you think you do.

>
>.1. Kaf- Ha-Ya-'Ain-Sad.
>
>[These letters are one of the miracles of the Qur'an, and none but
>Allah (Alone) knows their meanings].

How bereft of any actual miracle you muslims show yourselves to be by
calling some nonsense string of letters a 'miracle'

FACE.

[arah]

On Nov 14, 2:54 am, FACE <AFaceInTheCr...@today.net> wrote:
> You really should not make yourself so weak and stupid as to try to take
> up for this stupidly ridiculous error of the desert pirate mo -- or you
> would you call it "god's word".

Do your homework before making any conclusion.

The same is it to them whether thou admonish them or thou do not
admonish them: they will not believe.‎ (36:10)

Prophet Muhammad: Most Influential Person In History

The Quran
We make no distinction among any of the Prophets. -- 2:135

Michael H. Hart, The 100: A Ranking of the Most Influential Persons in
History

My choice of Muhammad to lead the world's most influential persons may
surprise some readers and may be questioned by others, but he was the
only man in history who was supremely successful on both the religious
and secular levels. . .
. . . it may initially seem strange that Muhammad has been ranked
higher than Jesus. There are two principal reasons for that decision.
First, Muhammad played a far more important role to the development of
Islam than Jesus did in the development of Christianity. Although
Jesus was responsible for the main ethical and moral precepts of
Christianity (insofar as these differed from Judaism), St. Paul was
the main developer of Christian theology, its principal proselytizer,
and the author of a large portion of the New Testament.

Muhammad, however, was responsible for both the theology of Islam and
its main ethical and moral principles. In addition he played a key
role in proselytizing the new faith, and in establishing the religious
practices of Islam. Moreover, he is the author of the Moslem holy
scriptures, the Koran. [The Quran, Muslims believe, is the revealed
Word of God.]

Furthermore, Muhammad (unlike Jesus) was a secular leader as well as a
religious leader. In fact as the driving force behind the Arab
conquests, he may well rank as the most influential political leader
of all time. . . [When Muhammad died in 632, he was the effective
leader of all of southern Arabia. By 711, Arab armies had swept
completely across North Africa to the Atlantic Ocean. In a scant
century of fighting, the Bedouin tribesmen, inspired by the word of
the Prophet, had carved out an empire stretching from the borders of
India to the Atlantic Ocean -- the largest empire that the world had
yet seen.]

. . the Arab conquests of the seventh century have continued to play
an important role in human history, down to the present day. It is
this unparalleled combination of secular and religious influence which
I feel entitles Muhammad to be considered the most influential single
figure in human history.

Alphonse de Lamartine, Histoire de la Turquie

Never has a man set for himself, voluntarily or involuntarily, a more
sublime aim, since this aim was superhuman: to subvert superstitions
which had been interposed between man and his creator, to render God
unto man and man unto God; to restore the rational and sacred idea of
divinity amidst the chaos of the material and disfigured gods of
idolatry, then existing. Never has a man undertaken a work so far
beyond human power with so feeble means, for he (Muhammad) had in the
conception as well as in the execution of such a great design no other
instrument than himself, and no other aid, except a handful of men
living in a corner of the desert. Finally, never has a man
accomplished such a huge and lasting revolution in the world, because
in less than two centuries after its appearance, Islam, in faith and
in arms, reigned over the whole of Arabia, and conquered, in God's
name, Persia, Khorasan, Transoxania, Western India, Syria, Egypt,
Abyssinia, all the known continent of Northern Africa, numerous
islands of the Mediterranean, Spain, and a part of Gaul.

If greatness of purpose, smallness of means, and astounding results
are the true criteria of human genius, who could dare to compare any
great man in modern history with Muhammad? The most famous men created
arms, laws and empires only. They founded, if anything at all, no more
than material powers which often crumbled away before their eyes. This
man moved not only armies, legislations, empires, peoples and
dynasties, but millions of men in one-third of the inhabited world;
and more than that, he moved the altars, the gods, the religions, the
ideas, the beliefs and the souls.

On the basis of a Book, every letter of which has become law, he
created a spiritual nationality which blended together peoples of
every tongue and of every race. He has left us as the indelible
characteristic of this Muslim nationality the hatred of false gods and
the passion for the One and Immaterial God. This avenging patriotism
against the profanation of Heaven formed the virtue of the followers
of Muhammad; the conquest of one-third of the earth to his dogma was
his miracle; or rather it was not the miracle of a man but that of
reason.

The idea of the Unity of God, proclaimed amidst the exhaustion of
fabulous theogonies, was in itself such a miracle that upon its
utterance from his lips it destroyed all the ancient temples of idols
and set on fire one-third of the world. His life, his meditations, his
heroic revilings against the superstitions of his country, and his
boldness in defying the furies of idolatry, his firmness in enduring
them for fifteen years at Mecca, his acceptance of the role of public
scorn and almost of being a victim of his fellow countrymen: all these
and, finally, his flight, his incessant preaching, his wars against
odds, his faith in his success and his superhuman security in
misfortune, his forbearance in victory, his ambition, which was
entirely devoted to one idea and in no manner striving for an empire;
his endless prayers, his mystic conversations with God, his death and
his triumph after death: all these attest not to an imposture but to
affirm conviction which gave him the power to restore a dogma. This
dogma was twofold, the unity of God and the immateriality of God: the
former telling what God is, the latter telling what God is not; the
one overthrowing false gods with the sword, the other starting an idea
with the words.

Philosopher, orator, apostle, legislator, warrior, conqueror of ideas,
restorer of rational dogmas, of a cult without images; the founder of
twenty terrestrial empires and of one spiritual empire, that is
Muhammad. As regards all standards by which human greatness may be
measured, we may well ask, is there any man greater than he? -- Paris
1854, Vol. II, pp. 276- 277

Ya Sin.‎ (36:1)
By the Qur'an, full of Wisdom,-‎ (36:2)
Thou art indeed one of the messengers,‎ (36:3)
On a Straight Way.‎ (36:4)
It is a Revelation sent down by (Him), the Exalted in Might, Most
Merciful.‎ (36:5)
In order that thou mayest admonish a people, whose fathers had
received no admonition, and who therefore remain heedless (of the
Signs of Allah).‎ (36:6)
The Word is proved true against the greater part of them: for they do
not believe.‎ (36:7)
We have put yokes round their necks right up to their chins, so that
their heads are forced up (and they cannot see).‎ (36:8)
And We have put a bar in front of them and a bar behind them, and
further, We have covered them up; so that they cannot see.‎ (36:9)
The same is it to them whether thou admonish them or thou do not
admonish them: they will not believe.‎ (36:10)

[arah]

On Nov 12, 6:46 pm, jwsheffi...@satx.rr.com wrote:
> On Nov 12, 3:46 am, arah <arah1...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> "But do these misinformed Muslims know what they are talking about
> when
> the word “trinity” is not found in the Bible? "

Jim, I know you can think better than that!!!!

Where is the word "“trinity” in the bible.

This is the first article of the series: "God is Seen in Bible versus
Quran"

The Bible says that the Lord God, the Almighty Creator, was seen many
times; yet the Bible declares that No one has ever seen God at any
time.

The Noble Quran says that No one has ever seen the Almighty Creator in
the life of this world; yet, only the believers will see Him in the
Hereafter.

Scientifically speaking, In the life of this world, man is not able to
see many creatures; man can not see by his naked eye the too small
creatures like the bacteria and the too huge creatures like the very
far giant Stars. Our eyes are handicapped to see such creatures and we
have to use some instruments like the microscope and telescope to see
the bacteria and the far stars respectively.

Hence, why that our eyes cannot see many of the Lord God's creatures
and can see the Almighty Creator?

Nevertheless, how could the believers see the Lord in the Hereafter?

Allah will make man' sight acute, very sharp, piercing and able to
perceive what man used to reject and deny in the life of this world.

However, the believers are the only people allowed to see their Lord,
the Almighty Creator.

On the other hand, the disbelievers will see the Eternal Fire, the
Angels of chastisement etc.

======================================================



?? In the Bible: The Lord God is Seen (1)



In the Bible: God is seen many times

Yet, No one has ever seen God at any time!



In the Bible, the Lord God, the Almighty Creator, was seen for many
times. According to the Bible, Abraham was the first man ever who has
seen the Lord God. Not only that, but Abraham was too lucky to see
the Lord God for three successive times.

Abraham was the first man who has seen the Lord God. Abraham has seen
God for three times.

Nevertheless, the Bible declares, for three times, that No one has
ever seen the Lord God at any time.

The Lord God is seen according to Genesis 12:7, 17:1 and 18:1

No one has ever seen the Lord God according to Exodus 33:20, John 1:18
and 1 John 4:12

--------------------------------------------------------------------



? The Lord God is seen according to the following three verses:



1) Genesis 12:7



New International Version: The LORD appeared to Abram and said, "To
your offspring I will give this land." So he built an altar there to
the LORD, who had appeared to him.



American Standard Version: And Jehovah appeared unto Abram, and said,
Unto thy seed will I give this land: and there builded he an altar
unto Jehovah, who appeared unto him.



English Standard Version: Then the LORD appeared to Abram and said,
"To your offspring I will give this land." So he built there an altar
to the LORD, who had appeared to him.



King James Version: And the LORD appeared unto Abram, and said, Unto
thy seed will I give this land: and there builded he an altar unto the
LORD, who appeared unto him.



2) Genesis 17:1



New International Version: When Abram was ninety-nine years old, the
LORD appeared to him and said, "I am God Almighty; walk before me and
be blameless.



Ads by Google
American Standard Version: And when Abram was ninety years old and
nine, Jehovah appeared to Abram, and said unto him, I am God Almighty;
walk before me, and be thou perfect.



English Standard Version: When Abram was ninety-nine years old the
LORD appeared to Abram and said to him, "I am God Almighty; walk
before me, and be blameless,



King James Version: And when Abram was ninety years old and nine, the
LORD appeared to Abram, and said unto him, I am the Almighty God; walk
before me, and be thou perfect.



3) Genesis 18:1



New International Version: The LORD appeared to Abraham near the great
trees of Mamre while he was sitting at the entrance to his tent in the
heat of the day.

American Standard Version: And Jehovah appeared unto him by the oaks
of Mamre, as he sat in the tent door in the heat of the day;

English Standard Version: And the LORD appeared to him by the oaks of
Mamre, as he sat at the door of his tent in the heat of the day.

King James Version: And the LORD appeared unto him in the plains of

Mamre: and he sat in the tent door in the heat of the day;

--------------------------------------------------------------------



? Yet, No one has ever seen the Lord God in the following three verses



1) Exodus 33:20



New International Version: But," he said (the LORD said to Moses) you
cannot see my face, for no one may see me and live."

American Standard Version: And he said, Thou canst not see my face;
for man shall not see me and live.

English Standard Version: But," he said, "you cannot see my face, for
man shall not see me and live."

King James Version: And he said, Thou canst not see my face: for there
shall no man see me, and live.



2) John 1:18



New International Version: No one has ever seen God…

American Standard Version: No man hath seen God at any time…

English Standard Version: No one has ever seen God…

King James Version: No man hath seen God at any time…



3) 1 John 4:12



New International Version: No one has ever seen God…

American Standard Version: No man hath beheld God at any time…

English Standard Version: No one has ever seen God…

King James Version: No man hath seen God at any time…

======================================================



?? In the Quran: The Lord God is NOT Seen (1)



Verse 6:103



QARIB: no eye can see him, though he sees all eyes. he is the subtle,
the aware.

SHAKIR: vision comprehends him not, and he comprehends (all) vision;
and he is the knower of subtleties, the aware

PICKTHAL: vision comprehendeth him not, but he comprehendeth (all)
vision. he is the subtile, the aware.

YUSUFALI: no vision can grasp him, but his grasp is over all vision:
he is above all comprehension, yet is acquainted with all things.



The meanings of the verse:

Vision cannot attain Him, that is, human eyes cannot see Him.

Vision cannot encompass Him; but He attains all vision, that is to
say, He perceives them, whereas they cannot perceive Him; it is not
possible in the case of anyone other than Him to attain all vision
while vision cannot attain Him or encompass Him in knowledge.

In other words, Vision comprehends Him not in this world, nor do
created beings see what He sees. Sights will not comprehend the
modality of seeing Him in the Hereafter nor will created beings be
able to see Him in this world.

Nevertheless, He comprehends all vision in this world and in the
Hereafter: He sees that which human beings do not see and nothing
escapes or is hidden from Him.

In addition, He is the Subtle in His actions whose knowledge surrounds
His created beings; He is the Subtle in dealing with His servants. He
is the Aware of His created beings and their actions.

--------------------------------------------------------------------



? On the Day of Judgment, your sight will be acute, very sharp and
piercing.



Verse 50: 22





QARIB: (it will be said): 'of this you have been heedless. therefore,
we have now removed your covering. today your sight is sharp. '

SHAKIR: certainly you were heedless of it, but now we have removed
from you your veil, so your sight today is sharp

PICKTHAL: (and unto the evil-doer it is said): thou wast in
heedlessness of this. now we have removed from thee thy covering, and
piercing is thy sight this day.

YUSUFALI: (it will be said:) "thou wast heedless of this; now have we
removed thy veil, and sharp is thy sight this day!"



The meanings of the verse:

O children of Adam, you are in heedlessness, in ignorance and oblivion
of the Day of Judgment.

‘Verily, in the life of this world, you were oblivious of this, that
has befallen you on this day; So now Allah has removed from you your
covering, and so your sight on this day is acute’, it is very sharp
and piercing and is able to perceive what you used to reject in the
life of this world.

--------------------------------------------------------------------



? Only the Believers will see their LORD in the Hereafter



Verses 75: 22-23



QARIB: on that day there shall be radiant faces, gazing towards their
lord.

SHAKIR: (some) faces on that day shall be bright, looking to their
lord

PICKTHAL: that day will faces be resplendent, looking toward their
lord;

YUSUFALI: some faces, that day, will beam (in brightness and beauty);
- looking towards their lord;



The meanings of the verses:

On that day, the Day of Resurrection, the faces of the believers who
are true in their faith will be resplendent, beautiful, seemly,
radiant and tender. Why?

Because, these faces are looking towards their Lord, glorified and
exalted be He, they behold the Countenance of their Lord and are not
veiled from Him.

It is said that the reward for works is Paradise, and the reward for
the realization of Allah is the vision of Him, Mighty and Majestic is
He.

======================================================


Read more:
http://www.articlesbase.com/metaphysics-articles/in-bible-versus-quran-abraham-was-the-first-man-who-has-seen-the-lord-god-1425216.html#ixzz1dfVUvSHa

[FACE]

On Mon, 14 Nov 2011 00:46:35 -0800 (PST), in alt.religion.islam, arah
<arah...@gmail.com>, wrote

(previously):

>>> >The Holy Quran (Yusuf Ali Translation)
>>> >Surah 19, Maryam (Mary)
>>> >27. At length she brought the (babe) to her people, carrying him (in
>>> >her arms). They said: “O Mary! truly an amazing thing hast thou
>>> >brought!
>>> ****
>>> >28. “O sister of Aaron!
>>> ****
>>> >Thy father was not a man of evil, nor thy
>>> >mother a woman unchaste!”
>>>
>>> <snip>
>>>
>>> In the dumbest of errors contest, Mo calling the mother of Jesus, Mary,
>>> the sister of Aaron may be the winner.  It shows how little was his
>>> knowledge of the bible he repeatedly plagiarized.
>
>>>Aaron, son of Amran, did have a sister named Miriam (Mary), he also had a
>>>brother named Moses -- some 1400 or so years before Mary of Nazareth, who
>>>had no brother named Aaron.
>>>
>>>Kablam! Your shot to your foot was on target, arah.
>>>
>>>FACE

>On Nov 14, 2:54 am, FACE <AFaceInTheCr...@today.net> wrote:
>> You really should not make yourself so weak and stupid as to try to take
>> up for this stupidly ridiculous error of the desert pirate mo -- or you
>> would you call it "god's word".
>
>Do your homework before making any conclusion.

Even when muslim islamic scholars own up to this grievous historical
error, you still try to fluff over it and insist that it is somehow my
fault.

Grow up, little one.

FACE

>
>The same is it to them whether thou admonish them or thou do not

>admonish them: they will not believe.? (36:10)

>Ya Sin.? (36:1)
>By the Qur'an, full of Wisdom,-? (36:2)
>Thou art indeed one of the messengers,? (36:3)
>On a Straight Way.? (36:4)

>It is a Revelation sent down by (Him), the Exalted in Might, Most

>Merciful.? (36:5)

>In order that thou mayest admonish a people, whose fathers had
>received no admonition, and who therefore remain heedless (of the

>Signs of Allah).? (36:6)

>The Word is proved true against the greater part of them: for they do

>not believe.? (36:7)

>We have put yokes round their necks right up to their chins, so that

>their heads are forced up (and they cannot see).? (36:8)

>And We have put a bar in front of them and a bar behind them, and

>further, We have covered them up; so that they cannot see.? (36:9)

>The same is it to them whether thou admonish them or thou do not

>admonish them: they will not believe.? (36:10)

[arah]

On Nov 14, 3:31 am, FACE <AFaceInTheCr...@today.net> wrote:

> Even when muslim islamic scholars own up to this grievous historical
> error, you still try to fluff over it and insist that it is somehow my
> fault.

"O Messenger Proclaim which has been sent down to you from your Lord.
And if you do not, then you have not conveyed His Message. God will
protect you from mankind."

(Quran 5:67)


Indeed Prophets and messengers before the Prophet Muhammad had
mentioned the coming of the prophet Muhammad as the last Messenger.
Though some of these prophecies have been removed from the previous
scriptures, a few texts can still be found today in the Torah and
Gospel. Though some words are mistranslated, the passages are
stunning and can only refer to Prophet Muhammad (pbuh). These texts
state that the last messenger of God would be a descendant of Abraham
(pbuh), and would speak the exact word of God (Quran), commanding
belief in one God, establishing the law of God on Earth and purifying
the people of idolatry and sin. (See: Deuteronomy 18:18-22; John 16:
5-8; John 15:26-27; John 16:12-14)

"Those who follow the Messenger, the Prophet who can neither read nor
write, whom they find written with them in the Torah and Gospel- he
commands them the good and forbids them the evil; he allows for them
the lawful and prohibits them the unlawful; he releases from them
their heavy burdens"

(Quran 7:157)

"And when there comes unto them a messenger from God confirming that
which they possess, a party of those who have received the Scripture,
fling the Scripture of God behind their backs as if they knew not."

(Quran 2:101)

"Those unto whom We gave the Scripture recognise this (revelation) as
they recognise their sons. But lo! A party of them knowingly conceal
the truth."

(Quran 2:146)

http://www.whatisislam.org.uk/The-Prophet-Muhammad-4-c

> >admonish them: they will not believe.? (36:10)- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

[jwshe...@satx.rr.com]

On Nov 14, 3:00 am, arah <arah1...@gmail.com> wrote:

"Where is the word "“trinity” in the bible."

Gen 18:1 ¶ And the LORD appeared unto him in the plains of Mamre: and

he sat in the tent door in the heat of the day;

Gen 18:2 And he lift up his eyes and looked, and, lo, three men
stood by him: and when he saw [them], he ran to meet them from the
tent door, and bowed himself toward the ground,


Gen 18:3 And said, My Lord, if now I have found favour in thy
sight, pass not away, I pray thee, from thy servant:


Notice: three persons, one Lord

Philo lived c.20 BC-c.AD 50 ...

http://answers.encyclopedia.com/question/did-philo-live-367023.html

Philo writes:

...it is reasonable for one to be three and for three to be one, for
they were one by a higher principle... ...he makes the appearance of a
trinity [triad]... He cannot be seen in his oneness without something
[else], the chief Powers that that exist immediately with him... the
Creative, which is called "God" and the Kingly, which is called
"Lord"... [Abraham] begins to see the sovereign, holy, and divine
vision in such a way that single appearance appears as a trinity
[triad], and the trinity [triad] as a unity.
(Philo; Questions on Genesis, IV, 2)

http://www.iloveulove.com/spirituality/kabbalah/kabbachurch.htm



Mat 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in
the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

Notice: Name singular, three persons

Jhn 1:1 ¶ In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God,
and the Word was God.


Jhn 1:2 The same was in the beginning with God.


Jhn 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any
thing made that was made.


Jhn 1:4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.


Jhn 1:5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness
comprehended it not.


Jhn 1:6 ¶ There was a man sent from God, whose name [was] John.


Jhn 1:7 The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light,
that all [men] through him might believe.


Jhn 1:8 He was not that Light, but [was sent] to bear witness of
that Light.


Jhn 1:9 [That] was the true Light, which lighteth every man that
cometh into the world.


Jhn 1:10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and
the world knew him not.


Jhn 1:11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not.


Jhn 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to
become the sons of God, [even] to them that believe on his name:


Jhn 1:13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the
flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.


Jhn 1:14 ¶ And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we
beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,)
full of grace and truth.


Jhn 1:15 John bare witness of him, and cried, saying, This was he
of whom I spake, He that cometh after me is preferred before me: for
he was before me.


Jhn 1:16 And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for
grace.


Jhn 1:17 For the law was given by Moses, [but] grace and truth came
by Jesus Christ.


Jhn 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son,
which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared [him].

[FACE]

On Tue, 15 Nov 2011 07:11:18 -0800 (PST), in alt.religion.islam, arah
<arah...@gmail.com>, wrote

>O

I see that when you are completely defeated and lost, you start trying to
change the subject and scramble things up.

I'll bring it back to the topic that you can't address.

You never were able to address the stupid error mo made as who the father
of mary was.

Oh, wait...that is supposed to be "allah" speaking, the one who *claims*
to have written the torah and the gospel and to have known all of these
prophets. <---point 1.

And claims to be "All-knowing". <---point 2.

Your whole silly but deadly, made-up religion falls apart on this and
points 1 & 2.

"041:052 Say: "Tell me, if it (the Qur'an) is from Allah, and you
disbelieve in it, who is more astray than one who is in opposition far
away (from Allah's Right Path and His obedience). "

[arah]

On Nov 16, 12:20 am, FACE <AFaceInTheCr...@today.net> wrote:
> On Tue, 15 Nov 2011 07:11:18 -0800 (PST),  in alt.religion.islam,  arah

> <arah1...@gmail.com>, wrote

>
> >O
>
> I see that when you are completely defeated and lost, you start trying to
> change the subject and scramble things up.
>
> I'll bring it back to the topic that you can't address.
>
> You never were able to address the stupid error mo made as who the father
> of mary was.

Sorry, I am not interested of winning, I am just sharing the truth.

What the bible said about the father and mother of Virgin Mary?

[jwshe...@satx.rr.com]

On Nov 16, 6:34 am, arah <arah1...@gmail.com> wrote:

"Sorry, I am not interested of winning, I am just sharing the truth."

Joh 1:17 - For the law was given by Moses,
but grace and truth
came by Jesus Christ.


Joh 14:6 - Jesus saith unto him,
I am the way, the truth, and the life:
no man cometh unto the Father,
but by me.

[arah]

On Nov 16, 6:26 am, jwsheffi...@satx.rr.com wrote:
> On Nov 16, 6:34 am, arah <arah1...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> "Sorry, I am not interested of winning, I am just sharing the truth."
>
> Joh 1:17 - For the law was given by Moses,
>                but grace and truth
>                came by Jesus Christ.

My dear jwsheffi

Why in the Bible stated Jesus mentioned the following :


Matthew 5:17-20
"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I
have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. I tell you the
truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not
the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law
until everything is accomplished. Anyone who breaks one of the least
of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called
least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches
these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. For I
tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the
Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter
the kingdom of heaven."



but Paul or Saul the murderer mentioned otherwise



Hebrews 7:18-19

The former regulation is set aside because it was weak and useless
(for the law made nothing perfect), and a better hope is introduced,
by which we draw near to God.

Galatian 3:13

Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for
us, for it is written: "Cursed is everyone who is hung on a tree."

[FACE]

If you had not been so deceitful and tried to slither out of this, i
probably would not have taken it any further than the first post/reply,
but you have shown such poor behaviour that you will continue to have this
thrown in your face:

>>> >The Holy Quran (Yusuf Ali Translation)
>>> >Surah 19, Maryam (Mary)
>>> >27. At length she brought the (babe) to her people, carrying him (in
>>> >her arms). They said: “O Mary! truly an amazing thing hast thou
>>> >brought!
>>> ****
>>> >28. “O sister of Aaron!
>>> ****
>>> >Thy father was not a man of evil, nor thy
>>> >mother a woman unchaste!”
>>>
>>> <snip>
>>>
>>> In the dumbest of errors contest, Mo calling the mother of Jesus, Mary,
>>> the sister of Aaron may be the winner.  It shows how little was his
>>> knowledge of the bible he repeatedly plagiarized.
>
>>>Aaron, son of Amran, did have a sister named Miriam (Mary), he also had a
>>>brother named Moses -- some 1400 or so years before Mary of Nazareth, who
>>>had no brother named Aaron.
>>>
>>>Kablam! Your shot to your foot was on target, arah.
>>>
>>>FACE

<Arah shuffles and scrambles.....>

I see that when you are completely defeated and lost, you start trying to
change the subject and scramble things up.

I'll bring it back to the topic that you can't address.

You never were able to address the stupid error mo made as who the father
of mary was.

Oh, wait...that is supposed to be "allah" speaking, the one who *claims*
to have written the torah and the gospel and to have known all of these
prophets. <---point 1.

And claims to be "All-knowing". <---point 2.

Your whole silly but deadly, made-up religion falls apart on this and
points 1 & 2.

"041:052 Say: "Tell me, if it (the Qur'an) is from Allah, and you
disbelieve in it, who is more astray than one who is in opposition far
away (from Allah's Right Path and His obedience). "

>Sorry, I am not interested of winning, I am just sharing the truth.
>
>What the bible said about the father and mother of Virgin Mary?

Whatever the bible says or does not say is irrelevant. "Allah" calling
Amron the father of the virgin mother of Jesus, Mary, through calling her
the sister of the son of Amron, Aaron, is what is relevant.

Your whole "omniscience of allah" crap falls apart right here.

(Of course, I know it was really muhammad who made this ignorant error,
but here I'll pretend that there is an "allah".)

[jwshe...@satx.rr.com]

On Nov 16, 10:50 am, arah <arah1...@gmail.com> wrote:

"Why in the Bible stated Jesus mentioned the following :


Matthew 5:17-20
"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I
have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. I tell you the
truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not
the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law
until everything is accomplished. Anyone who breaks one of the least
of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be
called
least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches
these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. For I
tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the
Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter
the kingdom of heaven."

A List of the 613 Mitzvot (Commandments)

For each mitzvah, I have provided a citation to the biblical passage
or passages from which it is derived, based Tracey R Rich

http://www.jewfaq.org/613.htm

Jhn 3:14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even
so must the Son of man be lifted up:


Jhn 3:15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but
have eternal life.


Jhn 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten
Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have
everlasting life.


Jhn 3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the
world; but that the world through him might be saved.


Jhn 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that
believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in
the name of the only begotten Son of God.

[Elijahovah]

Jesus said
i am the word
the word of God
Prophet means word of God.
Thus the word of Mohammed
cannot contradict Jesus if Mohammad
is also the word of God.
Jesus taught no war biut sacrifice.
He didnt replace the temple by walking
in with a bomb to his chest.
But rather he became the Lamb of sacrifice
that Mohammad never became, and the i hear
Mohammad also says the sacrifice of Jesus
was faked. no blood lost no body lost.

Joshua is Jesus, Jesus is Joshua.
Moses picked a people thru water,
but it was Joshua who brought them into
the new world and new land.
John the Baptizer brought the people thru
water to seek who is worthy, but it is Jesus
who brings them into the new land.
Nehemiah and Malachi and many others
all ended the Bible in 443bc the 32nd year
of Persian king Artaxerxes because only hope remained
now that 1000 years of Joshua's death had been reached.
Did Joshua save all Israel by worshipping Jehovah.
HIs name means Jehovah Saves.
Nehemiah and Malachi speaks of Jeruslame being
in despair and a disappointment in this year
443-442bc being 1000 years from Joshua's
19-year lunar calendar (1443bc) and his death 1442bc.
Israel was NOT the perfect example for the world
or for the nations. So they awaited yet another
Elijah and yet another Joshua.
Behold, i am your Elijah and i tell you who the Lamb is
who the Joshua is because Jehovah Saves thru
the church bride of Jesus who you see in the flesh.
The Turkish-Kurdish Moslems are correct that
America kills their Christ who comes back.
But that the Moslems may not boast like Greeks
who accepted Jesus so they could hate Jews who rejected him,
this is why the American Caesar has Moslem blood.
That you may know that both Christian and Moslem
will stand together to kill The Lamb, the Christ,
the only ones who go to heaven so they can appear 40 days
to their own disciples saying look the world has not killed us
because we are still alive and we number the true 10,000
claimed to be lost in world trade instead of the lame worthless
sacrifice of only 3000.
Praised be the bride the day she with heart broken tears
and blood in her eyes from her crying that she must now leave
in this 40-day rapture by means of this only escape for her
by letting all you people slaughter her.
She meets 7 days before this slaughter as Jesus did
7 days before his 40-day rapture thru global accepted false trial.
The tribulation is caused by the churches getting the nations
to slaughter the bride of Jesus.
Her blood saves those who will see she is the last of those
resurrected to heaven. Those who accepted Jesus lived in a world
that beleived all had immortal souls in the underworld Hades
awaiting rise to heaven, but they did not beleive this and instead
beleived Jesus was the first to heaven.
Now those last to heaven are killed by the jealous who also think
all are immortal souls who have been going to heaven
and still will go there after this slaughter of them,
the slaughter of the last saints.
I am John, i am Elijah, and she is The Lamb.
Even her own disciples will again disown her like
Peter and all disciples did. None of them which to die with her,
as did none of them wish to die with Jesus and
deserted him, so they also desert her the bride.
And yet she will face this slaughter so that complete
and finished she will be the finished temple raised up
from earth to heaven and descending from heaven to earth
as 144,000 strong.
The feet bitten by the serpent is her.
And yet 1000 years from now, again the last or the feet,
will be bitten when Satan is let loose from his
1000-year prison.
ELIJAH

[FACE]

On Wed, 16 Nov 2011 08:50:36 -0800 (PST), in alt.religion.islam, arah
<arah...@gmail.com>, wrote

>On Nov 16, 6:26 am, jwsheffi...@satx.rr.com wrote:
>> On Nov 16, 6:34 am, arah <arah1...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> "Sorry, I am not interested of winning, I am just sharing the truth."
>>
>> Joh 1:17 - For the law was given by Moses,
>>                but grace and truth
>>                came by Jesus Christ.
>
>My dear jwsheffi
>
>Why in the Bible stated Jesus mentioned the following :
>
>
>Matthew 5:17-20
>"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I
>have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.

Look at 2c and 2d, in particular. Out of six defintions all but 1 is
applicable,

That leads to Romans "10:4 For Christ is the end of the law for
righteousness to every one that believeth."

fulfill
Popularity

ful·fill
verb \fu?(l)-?fil also f?(l)-\
ful·filledful·fill·ing
Definition of FULFILL
transitive verb
1
archaic : to make full : fill <her subtle, warm, and golden
breath…fulfills him with beatitude — Alfred Tennyson>
2
a : to put into effect : execute b : to meet the requirements of (a
business order) c : to bring to an end d : to measure up to : satisfy
3
a : to convert into reality b : to develop the full potentialities of
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/fulfil

[arah]

On Nov 17, 11:58 am, FACE <AFaceInTheCr...@today.net> wrote:
>
> That leads to Romans  "10:4 For Christ is the end of the law for
> righteousness to every one that believeth."

Paul or Saul the murderer clearly contradict Jesus!!!!!

> >I tell you the
> >truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not
> >the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law
> >until everything is accomplished. Anyone who breaks one of the least
> >of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called
> >least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches
> >these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. For I
> >tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the
> >Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter
> >the kingdom of heaven."
>

15"Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep's clothing,
but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. 16By their fruit you will
recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from
thistles? 17Likewise every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree
bears bad fruit. 18A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree
cannot bear good fruit. 19Every tree that does not bear good fruit is
cut down and thrown into the fire. 20Thus, by their fruit you will
recognize them.
21"Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom
of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in
heaven. 22Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not
prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform
many miracles?' 23Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you.
Away from me, you evildoers!' (Mathew 7:15-23)

[FACE]

On Fri, 18 Nov 2011 00:15:36 -0800 (PST), in alt.religion.islam, arah
<arah...@gmail.com>, wrote

>On Nov 17, 11:58 am, FACE <AFaceInTheCr...@today.net> wrote:
>>
>> That leads to Romans  "10:4 For Christ is the end of the law for
>> righteousness to every one that believeth."
>
>Paul or Saul the murderer clearly contradict Jesus!!!!!

You are obviously "anti-Paul". However, we are not talking about Paul,
the point of my comment was that to the believer in Yeshua, the law had
been fulfilled.

Your pal Paul also wrote:
"Followers of Christ are not under the Law of Moses: "He did away with the
law of the commandments in regulations" (Eph.2:15),

"I said unto Peter before them all, If thou, being a Jew, livest after
the manner of Gentiles, and not as do the Jews, why compellest thou the
Gentiles to live as do the Jews?" (Gal.2:14). "

And that and the Romans verse is corroborative of what i said, but it is
not the essence -- i said "and this leads to...".

In other words, stick to the subject, and leave the red herrings in the
bucket and refrain from these sly subject changes.

If you want to pursue your Paulian subject, make another thread and give
your evidence for your accusations. Your screaming accusation with
multiple exclamation points is terribly lame. Among that evidence, show
where either Saul or Paul ever murdered anyone. I can give evidence where
Saul, arguably, incited murder by leading a lethal mob outside of a
synagogue, but I know of no actual murder by him. And certainly not by
Paul. Enlighten me.

As Robert Spencer said Wednesday night, in order to discuss subjects, we
sometimes must assume the veracity of some things which we do not believe.

The subject here is the meaning of Matthew 5, verses 17-20.

FACE