CARL SAGAN ON THE HINDU COSMOS
and/or www.mantra.com/jai
HINDUISM AND CARL SAGAN
Carl Sagan says in this book the Cosmos:
"The Hindu religion is the only one of the world's
great faiths dedicated to the idea that the Cosmos
itself undergoes an immense, indeed an infinite, number
of deaths and rebirths. It is the only religion in
which the time scales correspond, to those of modern
scientific cosmology. Its cycles run from our ordinary
day and night to a day and night of Brahma, 8.64
billion years long. longer than the age of the Earth or
the Sun and about half the time since the Big Bang. And
there are much longer time scales still.
There is the deep and appealing notion that the
universe is but the dream of the god who, after a
Brahma years, dissolves himself into a dreamless sleep.
The universe dissolves with him -- until, after another
Brahma century, he stirs, recomposes himself and begins
again to dream the great cosmic dream.
The Chola bronzes, cast in the 11th century, include
several different incarnations of the god Shiva.
The most elegant and sublime of these is a
representation of the creation of the universe at the
beginning of each cosmic cycle, a motif known as the
cosmic dance of Lord Shiva. The god, called in this
manifestation Nataraja, the Dance King. In the upper
right hand is a drum whose sound is the sound of
creation. In the upper left hand is a tongue of flame,
a reminder that the universe, now newly created, with
billions of years from now will be utterly destroyed.
The late scientist Carl Sagan, asserts that the dance
of Nataraja signifies the cycle of evolution and
destruction of the cosmic universe (Big Bang Theory).
"It is the clearest image of the activity of God which
any art or religion can boast of."
These profound and lovely images are, I like to
imagine, a kind of premonition of modern astronomical
ideas."
Source - "The Cosmos " by Carl Sagan.
- - -
"The sun and the moon, the Lord created like the suns
and the moons of previous cycles." - The Ved
End of forwarded message from "S.L." <alon...@erols.com>
Jai Maharaj, Jyotishi
Om Shanti
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P. Rajah
> This message was posted by "S.L."<alon...@erols.com>
>
> HINDUISM AND CARL SAGAN
>
> Carl Sagan says in this book the Cosmos:
>
> "The Hindu religion is the only one of the world's
> great faiths dedicated to the idea that the Cosmos
> itself undergoes an immense, indeed an infinite, number
> of deaths and rebirths. It is the only religion in
> which the time scales correspond,
"no doubt by accident,"
> to those of modern
> scientific cosmology. Its cycles run from our ordinary
> day and night to a day and night of Brahma, 8.64
> billion years long. longer than the age of the Earth or
> the Sun and about half the time since the Big Bang. And
> there are much longer time scales still.
>
> There is the deep and appealing notion that the
> universe is but the dream of the god who, after a
> Brahma years, dissolves himself into a dreamless sleep.
>
> The universe dissolves with him -- until, after another
> Brahma century, he stirs, recomposes himself and begins
> again to dream the great cosmic [lotus] dream.
You left out a key passage, Jay. I'm sure it was "unintentional"! ;-)
Here it is:
"These great ideas are tempered by another, perhaps still greater. It is
said that men may not be the dreams of the gods but rather that the gods
are the dreams of men."
> The Chola bronzes, cast in the 11th century, include
> several different incarnations of the god Shiva.
>
> The most elegant and sublime of these is a
> representation of the creation of the universe at the
> beginning of each cosmic cycle, a motif known as the
> cosmic dance of Lord Shiva. The god, called in this
> manifestation Nataraja, the Dance King. In the upper
> right hand is a drum whose sound is the sound of
> creation. In the upper left hand is a tongue of flame,
> a reminder that the universe, now newly created, with
> billions of years from now will be utterly destroyed.
>
> The late scientist Carl Sagan, asserts that the dance
> of Nataraja signifies the cycle of evolution and
> destruction of the cosmic universe (Big Bang Theory).
> "It is the clearest image of the activity of God which
> any art or religion can boast of."
>
> These profound and lovely images are, I like to
> imagine, a kind of premonition of modern astronomical
> ideas."
> Source - "The Cosmos " by Carl Sagan.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LJXyDm7c7s8
--
Astrology: Fraud or Superstition?
http://www.seesharppress.com/astro.html
library101
I think I found somewhere that Carl Sagan was a 'PIO' ?
His biological mother's name was Chaiya Clara as per the following :
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carl_Sagan
"The idea that God is an oversized white male with a flowing beard who
sits in the sky and tallies the fall of every sparrow is ludicrous.
But if by God one means the set of physical laws that govern the
universe, then clearly there is such a God. This God is emotionally
unsatisfying... it does not make much sense to pray to the law of
gravity."
(We know 'now' that Sir Isaac Newton's Gravitation Theory is
incorrect.)
"After a long and difficult fight with myelodysplasia, which included
three bone marrow transplants, Sagan died of pneumonia at the age of
62 at the Fred Hutchinson Cancer Research Center in Seattle,
Washington, on December 20, 1996.[59] He was buried at Lakeview
Cemetery in Ithaca, New York."
(due to the 'Aging_Problem')
- HSN.
P.S. I got the following error message while trying to 'Send' a
'Reply' :
"The group you are posting to is a Usenet group. Messages posted to
this group will make your email address visible to anyone on the
Internet.
Google Groups does not currently support posting to the following
usenet groups: "sci.astrology.hindu" "
hari....@indero.com
CARL SAGAN rejected all things relating to any supernatural matters. He
would laugh at the use of his name in this article. He repeated time
and again his fight against astrology as nonsense without any scientific
merit at all.
and/or www.mantra.com/jai
fanabba <fan...@aol.com> posted:
> Dr. Jai Maharaj posted:
> >
> > "The sun and the moon, the Lord created like the suns
> >
> > End of forwarded message from =A0"S.L." <alon...@erols.com>
> Thank you for your service to Hinduism !
You are welcome. And dhanyavaad for your service to Hindu dharm!
Art Sowers
On Tue, 28 Dec 2010, P. Rajah wrote:
> On 12/28/2010 12:57 AM, Jay Stevens Maharaj aka the jumpin' jackass
> jyotishithead aka the abominable ass-troll-oger wrote:
>
>> This message was posted by "S.L."<alon...@erols.com>
>>
>> HINDUISM AND CARL SAGAN
>>
>> Carl Sagan says in this book the Cosmos:
>>
>> "The Hindu religion is the only one of the world's
>> great faiths dedicated to the idea that the Cosmos
>> itself undergoes an immense, indeed an infinite, number
>> of deaths and rebirths. It is the only religion in
>> which the time scales correspond,
>
> "no doubt by accident,"
Carl Sagan was also prone to hype, hucksterism, and hoopla.
Nothing like mentioning some religion that, like all religions that
developed thousands of years ago, has nothing to do with modern astronomy
where telescopes actually see the rest of the universe, in reality.
>> to those of modern
>> scientific cosmology. Its cycles run from our ordinary
>> day and night to a day and night of Brahma, 8.64
>> billion years long. longer than the age of the Earth or
>> the Sun and about half the time since the Big Bang. And
>> there are much longer time scales still.
>>
>> There is the deep and appealing notion that the
>> universe is but the dream of the god who, after a
>> Brahma years, dissolves himself into a dreamless sleep.
>>
>> The universe dissolves with him -- until, after another
>> Brahma century, he stirs, recomposes himself and begins
>> again to dream the great cosmic [lotus] dream.
>
> You left out a key passage, Jay. I'm sure it was "unintentional"! ;-) Here it
> is:
>
> "These great ideas are tempered by another, perhaps still greater. It is said
> that men may not be the dreams of the gods but rather that the gods are the
> dreams of men."
What? Jay Stevens/Jai Maharaj is a "revisionist"?
Ahhh....yes...how to create propaganda by block-and-delete!
/////////////////////////////////////////
and/or www.mantra.com/jai
"Hinduism is the only ancient religious tradition on the Earth which
talks about the right time-scale. In the West, people have the sense
that what is natural is for the universe to be a few thousand years
old, and that billions are numbers no one can understand. The Hindu
concept is very clear. Here is a great world culture which has always
talked about billions of years." - Carl Sagan (1934-1996), American astrophysicist
http://www.hinduismtoday.com/modules/smartsection/item.php?itemid=1539
hari....@indero.com
library101
Some people (automatons) do not understand the meaning behind the
symbolism even though they have 'copied' it themselves.
Goodluck in your search for truth and your God...
- HSN.
hari....@indero.com
e
> would laugh at the use of his name in this article. =A0He repeated
> and again his fight against astrology as nonsense without any
scientific
> merit at all.
"Some people (automatons) do not understand the meaning behind the
symbolism even though they have 'copied' it themselves."
Sagan copied nothing even close to what the article was trying to put
into his mouth. He rejected astrology on all terms. He understood that
some as cultural automatons recieved it unquestioned and sought to
educatue them as to the nonsense of astrology.
"Goodluck in your search for truth and your God..."
What is "truth"? I do not speak of my religious views, if any, least I
feed the narcotic of lables to the poor addicts who crave them as their
invented "truth" by which to be able to say anything about reality. .
Without their narcotic they would cease to have meaning and fade like
smoke.
library101
There is no 'truth' higher than God.
In your case, since you do not seem to believe in a living God, you
might be in the same boat as the addicts that you are trying to feed -
living in a world of contradictions and misinformation and pitfalls
obtained from the God in Heaven (you will face the
'God_Unavailable_Problem') or prophet or witness or whatever book you
get from them.
Non-believers who also do not believe in a living or spirit God (the
happiness_liberty_equality_brotherhood_fraternity_socialism_communism
people) on the other hand may keep searching all their life - toiling
away under the gun of totalitarian control because their guiding
principles do not respect anything except force (they do not respect
'Use of Reason', 'Truth', 'Non-Violence')...
- HSN.
hari....@indero.com
>
> e
>
> > would laugh at the use of his name in this article. =3DA0He repeated
> time
> > and again his fight against astrology as nonsense without any
> scientific
> > merit at all.
>
> "Some people (automatons) do not understand the meaning behind the
> symbolism even though they have 'copied' it themselves."
>
> Sagan copied nothing even close to what the article was trying to put
understood t=
hat
> some as cultural automatons recieved it unquestioned and sought to
> educatue them as to the nonsense of astrology.
>
> "Goodluck in your search for truth and your God..."
>
> feed the narcotic of lables to the poor addicts who crave them as
their
> invented "truth" by which to be able to say anything about reality. .
> Without their narcotic they would cease to have meaning and fade like
> smoke.
"There is no 'truth' higher than God.
In your case, since you do not seem to believe in a living God, you
might be in the same boat as the addicts that you are trying to feed -
living in a world of contradictions and misinformation and pitfalls
obtained from the God in Heaven (you will face the
'God_Unavailable_Problem') or prophet or witness or whatever book you
get from them.
Non-believers who also do not believe in a living or spirit God (the
happiness_liberty_equality_brotherhood_fraternity_socialism_communism
people) on the other hand may keep searching all their life - toiling
away under the gun of totalitarian control because their guiding
principles do not respect anything except force (they do not respect
'Use of Reason', 'Truth', 'Non-Violence')..."
You presume too much and without basis whatsoever. I do not discuss my
religious views, if any, for the reasons mentioned above.
You then rush in to fill the lable void because you need it to think
about anything based on a matrix of lables. You state them in general
terms instead of the term used which helps you not at all.
Your political presumptions are equally void.
Returning to the point of this thread, sagan rejected in any form
whatsoever any possible reason to give astrology any consideration;
except to mock and damn it.
I'm not the point of this thread.
library101
>
> - Show quoted text -
We need to look into the differences between the stars of the West
(seen here in USA for example) and the stars in Bharat. My guess is
that they are not the same. < You can see the 'Virtual Reality' of
stars in a Planetarium's laser display of a night sky represented by
the interior of the planetarium's dome. >
More later. I need to log out now.
- HSN.
hari....@indero.com
> whatsoever any possible reason to give astrology any consideration;
> except to mock and damn it.
> I'm not the point of this thread.
"We need to look into the differences between the stars of the West
(seen here in USA for example) and the stars in Bharat. My guess is that
they are not the same. < You can see the 'Virtual Reality' of stars in a
Planetarium's laser display of a night sky represented by the interior
of the planetarium's dome. >"
No two spots have the same stars exactly because of latitude.
This is not relevant to the completely rubbish claims of astrology at
any latitude and sagan's damnation of same.
library101
I do not know why you are attacking astrology without knowing the
subject yourself.
Do you have enough knowledge about the skies to be able to tell
everyone more than they already know ? Are you saying that you have
better knowledge than what is written in scriptures about the
auspiciousness or otherwise of certain dates and times based upon the
observation of the stars and the other 'maya' of the skies ?
I believe this world operates with symbolism everywhere. Stars and
everything else on earth are symbolic of the life on earth and its
history. If a person has the 'insight' to be able to understand the
symbolism, perhaps he/she has some source of knowledge that is not
obvious to others. Just like wise people have information that is not
obvious to others.
You are supporting Sagan over the ancients. We already know that Sagan
was wrong about his Copernican or Newtonian (or whatever) view of
stars and the skies !
That is like being penny-wise and pound-foolish.
I can see that you have plenty of company in this newsgroup, though
(all kinds of non-Bharatiya types included - strange bed-fellows with
harsh language of unreason and screaming headlines). Keep hammering at
it. Maybe someday you will find the real 'truth' about astrology too.
- HSN.
hari....@indero.com
subject yourself."
You hit the central fact. One needs know nothing about any system of
claims if its central truth claim is easily found false. In this case
that sky patterns directly and profoundly affect human affairs.
"Do you have enough knowledge about the skies to be able to tell
everyone more than they already know ? Are you saying that you have
better knowledge than what is written in scriptures about the
auspiciousness or otherwise of certain dates and times based upon the
observation of the stars and the other 'maya' of the skies ?"
It is not my knowledge alone. It is the knowledge easily confirmed by
anyone. Anyone can do a proper test, as has many times been done, to
test the central truth claim about sky patterns. It all ends there.
"I believe this world operates with symbolism everywhere. Stars and
everything else on earth are symbolic of the life on earth and its
history. If a person has the 'insight' to be able to understand the
symbolism, perhaps he/she has some source of knowledge that is not
obvious to others. Just like wise people have information that is not
obvious to others."
Religious faith is one thing and should be respected. Claims about sky
patterns and historical events being cause and effect is another matter.
The first is faith the second direct observation and potential
confirmation. Or failure to confirm as is clearly the case in
astrology.
"You are supporting Sagan over the ancients. We already know that Sagan
was wrong about his Copernican or Newtonian (or whatever) view of stars
and the skies !"
I support him to the extent that he also can support his claim. I give
the exact same support to the astrologer of any age who can do same. To
date no indication that support is warrented based on the failure of the
central truth claim.
I do not know any such thing about him in his astronomy. In what regard
was he and the great vast majority of those who have the same view in
error?
"That is like being penny-wise and pound-foolish."
How so?
"I can see that you have plenty of company in this newsgroup, though
(all kinds of non-Bharatiya types included - strange bed-fellows with
harsh language of unreason and screaming headlines). Keep hammering at
it. Maybe someday you will find the real 'truth' about astrology too."
That is the benefit of science and empirical method over a cultural
tradition of one place. The truth claim of the science can be tested
regardless of location and culture. The orbit of planets can be
observed and evaluated by anyone in any place as to physics and math.
There is no place for indian against not indian, it is being able to
support with universal models that all can confirm for themselves.
If the "real truth" does not solve the failure of the central truth
claim, then what truth remains to be discovered?