IF JESUS WAS GOD??
arah
If Jesus was GOD, then why in Mark 12:29 Jesus said "Here, O Israel:
The Lord our God is one Lord." The words "our God" indicate that Jesus
had a higher God over him, a stronger God than him. Jesus didn't say
"Your God". He said "our God" which includes Jesus as the creation of
GOD.
If Jesus was GOD, then why in John 20:17 Jesus said I ascend to my God
and your God? This tells us that we and Jesus have a common GOD.
If Jesus was GOD, then why in John 8:28 Jesus said "I do nothing of
myself"? Can't GOD do anything he wills?
If Jesus was GOD, then why in John 14:28 Jesus said "My Father (GOD)
is greater than I"?
If Jesus was GOD, then why in Luke 23:46 Jesus said "Father (GOD),
into thy hands I commend my spirit"?
If Jesus was GOD, then why in Matthew 19:16 Jesus said "Why call me
good, there is none good but One, that is GOD"?
If Jesus was GOD, then why in Matthew 26:39 Jesus begged his GOD to
have mercy on him and to pass the cup to death (kill Jesus in another
words) before Jesus goes through the pain of crucifixion? Also see:
Jesus's crucifixion in Islam
If Jesus was GOD, then why in John 18:38 he didn't reply when he was
asked about the truth?
If Jesus was GOD, then why in Matthew 24:36 Jesus told his followers
that no one (including Jesus) knows when the judgment day will come,
only GOD knows?
If Jesus was GOD, then why in Isiah 11:2-3 GOD had put the spirit of
fearing GOD in Jesus?
If Jesus was GOD, then why in John 5:31 Jesus told his followers that
if he (Jesus) bears witness of himself, then his record is not true?
If Jesus was GOD, then why in John 5:30 Jesus told his followers that
he can't do a single thing of his own initiative?
If Jesus was GOD, then why in John 5:36-38 Jesus said that GOD had
assigned him (Jesus) work and GOD is a witness on Jesus?
If Jesus was GOD, then why in John 5:32 Jesus told his followers that
they have never seen GOD at anytime nor ever heard his voice?
If Jesus was GOD, then why did he pray to his GOD in Luke 5:16?
If Jesus was GOD, then why in Matthew 26:39 Jesus fell on his face and
prayed to his GOD?
The "God" Title:
How come Christians take the "God" (theos in Greek) title literally
with Jesus in Isiah 9:6 and they don't take it literally for the rest
of the prophets and people who were called Gods ?
The Prophets who were called "God" in the Bible are as follows:
Prophet Moses in Exodus 7:1
The Devil in Corinthians 4:4 (the word for God in this verse is theos
in Greek, the same used for Jesus that was translated as "God")
Multiple Prophets in Psalms 82:6
King David in Psalm 45:3
Note: The only unique title given to GOD in the Bible that was not
given to others at all are Jehova, GOD, and GOD LORD. "God", "Most
Mighty" and "Almighty One" are titles that were given to Jesus, other
Prophets and to Satan himself in the Bible.
Very important note: Did you know that in the languages of Arabic and
Hebrew the father of the house can be called the God of the house?
Jesus was the God (father or leader) of his people and their father
according to Isiah 9:6. Jesus being the leader and the king, it is
normal for him to be called the father of his people (Father in Isiah
9:6), and because he is their father he automatically becomes their
God. My father is my God in Arabic and Hebrew.
The "Son" Title:
How come Christians take the "God's Son" title literally with Jesus
and they don't take it literally for the rest of the prophets and
people who were called the Sons of God?
In John 3:16 Jesus was called God's only Begotten Son.
In Exodus 4:22 "Thus saith Jehova, Isreal is my son, even my
firstborn." Isreal was called God's First Son.
In Jeremiah 31:9 "I am a father to Isreal, and Ephraim is my
firstborn." Ephraim is God's First Son and First Born.
In Psalm 2:7 "... Jehova had said onto me (David), thou art my Son;
this day have I begotten thee." David was called God's Begotten Son.
Were Jesus's Miracle's Unique?
If Jesus is believed to be GOD because he could do miracles, he could
heal leprosy, he could cause blind men to see, or raise the dead, then
what about the others who performed the same miracles?
Elisha and Elijah fed a hundred people with twenty barley loaves and a
few ears of corn (2 Kings 4:44).
Elisha told Naaman, who was a leper, to wash in the river Jordan (2
Kings 5:14) and he was healed. Elisha caused a blind man to see in (2
Kings 6:17,20).
Elijah and Elisha raised the dead in (1 Kings 17:22, and 2 Kings
4:34). Even Elisha's dead bones restored a dead body in (2 Kings
13:21).
Indeed Jesus had prophesied that people will worship him uselessly and
will believe in doctrines not made by GOD but by men "But in vain they
do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
(Matthew 15:9)"
In Matthew 15:9 above, we see Jesus warning that Trinity (the bogus
lie) will dominate, and people will take Jesus as GOD and worship him,
which is a total sin according to what Jesus said !!
Allah Almighty (GOD) in the Noble Quran (The Muslims' Holy Scripture)
states in Verse 5:72 "They do blaspheme who say: 'God is Christ the
son of Mary.' But said Christ: 'O Children of Isreal ! worship God, my
Lord and your Lord.' "
Also in Noble Verse 5:73 "They do blaspheme who say God is one of
three in a Trinity: for there is no god except One God. If they desist
not from their word (of blasphemy), verily a grievous penalty will
befall the blasphemers among them."
And also in Noble Verse 4:171 "O People of the Book! Commit no
excesses in your religion: Nor say of God aught but the truth. Christ
Jesus the son of Mary was (no more than) an apostle of God, ..."
The Point that I am trying to prove:
Muslims believe that Prophet Jesus peace be upon him is a messenger
from God. He was sent from God Almighty to deliver God's words to his
people. Jesus was never God, nor ever claimed to be God. Jesus was a
humble wonderful human being just like the rest of the Prophets and
Messengers of God. Muslims also believe that Jesus was never
crucified, nor ever died on the cross, nor ever wanted to die on the
cross, nor ever was sent to earth to die on the cross (checkout this
site for further proof Answering Trinity) Please read all of the links
and topics that I have listed on my main page at either www.aol40.com
or www.answering-christianity.com so you can learn my whole point and
reasons about not believing in Christianity.
AntiDabianchenVirus
> IF JESUS WAS GOD??
(remainder of muslim whore's trash post snipped)
Up yours - no one believes anything you have to say, ugly muslim whore
troll Jane Abraham/arah/nur!
If your Allah is so great why couldn't he even protect his jihad
warrior Bin Laden from the infidels? He couldn't wait to get rid of
his remaining 72 virgins, huh?
DryPussy
Please know that any person with some education and curiosity who
deigns to discuss religion is doing so in a spirit of fun and
jocularity.
BECAUSE ALL ASPECTS OF ALL RELIGIONS ARE SOLELY AND ENTIRELY OF HUMAN
CONSTRUCT!
god, heaven, hell, afterlife, bible, koran, jesus, allah, angels,
commandments, word(s) of god, miracles -- ALL are creations and
imaginings of HOMO SAPIENS.
So, GO, and fear no more!
AntiDabianchenVirus
> On Jul 10, 11:00 pm, arah <arah1...@gmail.com> wrote:> IF JESUS WAS GOD??
>
> (all puke flushed)
>
> If the rock you worship is god, then why its followers are becoming
> refugees and beggars in infidel countries?
LOL! Do you really expect that ugly muslim whore troll to give you a
sensible answer? Gimme a break! These public Usenet groups are the
only places where she thinks she can get any attention - even her own
people shun her.
jwshe...@satx.rr.com
and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of
Israel,
I AM hath sent me unto you.
Joh 8:58 - Jesus said unto them,
Verily, verily, I say unto you,
Before Abraham was, I am.
Joh 20:28 -And Thomas answered and said unto him,
My Lord and my God.
Athanasian Creed
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1. Whosoever will be saved, before all things it is necessary that he
hold the catholic faith;
2. Which faith except every one do keep whole and undefiled, without
doubt he shall perish everlastingly.
3. And the catholic faith is this: That we worship one God in
Trinity,
and Trinity in Unity;
4. Neither confounding the persons nor dividing the substance.
5. For there is one person of the Father, another of the Son, and
another of the Holy Spirit.
6. But the Godhead of the Father, of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit
is all one, the glory equal, the majesty coeternal.
7. Such as the Father is, such is the Son, and such is the Holy
Spirit.
8. The Father uncreated, the Son uncreated, and the Holy Spirit
uncreated.
9. The Father incomprehensible, the Son incomprehensible, and the
Holy
Spirit incomprehensible.
10. The Father eternal, the Son eternal, and the Holy Spirit eternal.
11. And yet they are not three eternals but one eternal.
12. As also there are not three uncreated nor three incomprehensible,
but one uncreated and one incomprehensible.
13. So likewise the Father is almighty, the Son almighty, and the
Holy
Spirit almighty.
14. And yet they are not three almighties, but one almighty.
15. So the Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Spirit is God;
16. And yet they are not three Gods, but one God.
17. So likewise the Father is Lord, the Son Lord, and the Holy Spirit
Lord;
18. And yet they are not three Lords but one Lord.
19. For like as we are compelled by the Christian verity to
acknowledge every Person by himself to be God and Lord;
20. So are we forbidden by the catholic religion to say; There are
three Gods or three Lords.
21. The Father is made of none, neither created nor begotten.
22. The Son is of the Father alone; not made nor created, but
begotten.
23. The Holy Spirit is of the Father and of the Son; neither made,
nor
created, nor begotten, but proceeding.
24. So there is one Father, not three Fathers; one Son, not three
Sons; one Holy Spirit, not three Holy Spirits.
25. And in this Trinity none is afore or after another; none is
greater or less than another.
26. But the whole three persons are coeternal, and coequal.
27. So that in all things, as aforesaid, the Unity in Trinity and the
Trinity in Unity is to be worshipped.
28. He therefore that will be saved must thus think of the Trinity.
29. Furthermore it is necessary to everlasting salvation that he also
believe rightly the incarnation of our Lord Jesus Christ.
30. For the right faith is that we believe and confess that our Lord
Jesus Christ, the Son of God, is God and man.
31. God of the substance of the Father, begotten before the worlds;
and man of substance of His mother, born in the world.
32. Perfect God and perfect man, of a reasonable soul and human flesh
subsisting.
33. Equal to the Father as touching His Godhead, and inferior to the
Father as touching His manhood.
34. Who, although He is God and man, yet He is not two, but one
Christ.
35. One, not by conversion of the Godhead into flesh, but by taking
of
that manhood into God.
36. One altogether, not by confusion of substance, but by unity of
person.
37. For as the reasonable soul and flesh is one man, so God and man
is
one Christ;
38. Who suffered for our salvation, descended into hell, rose again
the third day from the dead;
39. He ascended into heaven, He sits on the right hand of the Father,
God, Almighty;
40. From thence He shall come to judge the quick and the dead.
41. At whose coming all men shall rise again with their bodies;
42. and shall give account of their own works.
43. And they that have done good shall go into life everlasting and
they that have done evil into everlasting fire.
44. This is the catholic faith, which except a man believe faithfully
he cannot be saved.
duke
>IF JESUS WAS GOD??
>If Jesus was GOD, then why in John 20:17 Jesus said I ascend to my God
>and your God? This tells us that we and Jesus have a common GOD.
Of course we do. You must first acknowledge that God became man, to actually
experience life in the womb for 9 months. When you do that, you will come to
better understand.
The dukester, American-American
*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
*****
Dr. R. Knapp
> IF JESUS WAS GOD??
NO IF, Jesus IS GOD as well as God in the flesh in the form of Jesus
the Christ.
>
> If Jesus was GOD, then why in Mark 12:29 Jesus said "Here, O Israel:
> The Lord our God is one Lord." The words "our God" indicate that Jesus
> had a higher God over him, a stronger God than him. Jesus didn't say
> "Your God". He said "our God" which includes Jesus as the creation of
> GOD.
YES the LORD our GOD IS ONE LORD, no problem the the word "Our" does
not indicate anything about higher or stranger etc, that is only in
you head, so your false religion can deny God and accept a pagan god
and call that god your god. Jesus as a man and God such would be
"OUR" and "YOUR" etc.
I can be an employ in a company I own, and you could work for me as
my employee. So I can say OUR company, and YOUR boss, and WE can work
Together. You problem is trying to make you word and your wanting
people not to find God in Christ, so miss heaven and your false
religion does like Satan the Devil, to keep another from finding
salvation in the real GOD as God is ONE GOD and Jesus is His prophet,
His son, and "God with us".
>
> If Jesus was GOD, then why in John 20:17 Jesus said I ascend to my God
> and your God? This tells us that we and Jesus have a common GOD.
Again Jesus is God and as the Son of Mary God with us, His body would
ascend to HIS GOD and your God.
John 1:1-5
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the
Word was God. 2 He was with God in the beginning.
3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that
has been made. 4 In him was life, and that life was the light of men.
5 The light shines in the darkness, but the darkness has not
understood it. NIV
> If Jesus was GOD, then why in John 8:28 Jesus said "I do nothing of
> myself"? Can't GOD do anything he wills?
JESUS IS GOD. 1 John 4:1-3
4 Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to
see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone
out into the world. 2 This is how you can recognize the Spirit of God:
Every spirit that acknowledges that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh
is from God, 3 but every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not
from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you have heard
is coming and even now is already in the world. NIV
> If Jesus was GOD, then why in John 14:28 Jesus said "My Father (GOD)
> is greater than I"?
2 John 7-11
7 Many deceivers, who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the
flesh, have gone out into the world. Any such person is the deceiver
and the antichrist. 8 Watch out that you do not lose what you have
worked for, but that you may be rewarded fully. 9 Anyone who runs
ahead and does not continue in the teaching of Christ does not have
God; whoever continues in the teaching has both the Father and the
Son. 10 If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do
not take him into your house or welcome him. 11 Anyone who welcomes
him shares in his wicked work. NIV
> Muslims believe that Prophet Jesus peace be upon him is a messenger
> from God. He was sent from God Almighty to deliver God's words to his
> people. Jesus was never God, nor ever claimed to be God. Jesus was a
> humble wonderful human being just like the rest of the Prophets and
> Messengers of God. Muslims also believe that Jesus was never
> crucified, nor ever died on the cross, nor ever wanted to die on the
> cross, nor ever was sent to earth to die on the cross (checkout this
> site for further proof Answering Trinity) Please read all of the links
> and topics that I have listed on my main page at eitherwww.aol40.com
> orwww.answering-christianity.comso you can learn my whole point and
> reasons about not believing in Christianity.
The teachings of Muslims as you say you believe is denying Jesus and
if you say Jesus is your Prophet, why do you reject His Word for the
lies of Mohammad that was not even born for hunderds of years. Your
only reason for not accepting or believing in Jesus or Christianity is
your accepting of Satan as you leader. Acts 26:12-18
12 "On one of these journeys I was going to Damascus with the
authority and commission of the chief priests. 13 About noon, O king,
as I was on the road, I saw a light from heaven, brighter than the
sun, blazing around me and my companions. 14 We all fell to the
ground, and I heard a voice saying to me in Aramaic, '
Saul, Saul, why do you persecute me? It is hard for you to kick
against the goads.'
15 "Then I asked, 'Who are you, Lord?'
"'I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting,' the Lord replied. 16 'Now get
up and stand on your feet. I have appeared to you to appoint you as a
servant and as a witness of what you have seen of me and what I will
show you. 17 I will rescue you from your own people and from the
Gentiles. I am sending you to them 18 to open their eyes and turn them
from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, so that
they may receive forgiveness of sins and a place among those who are
sanctified by faith in me.' NIV
JESUS IS GOD! If one sees JESUS they see God, and only God not
Mohammad or the Qur'an in JESUS will ever find Heaven as home.
John 14:6-14
6 Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one
comes to the Father except through me. 7 If you really knew me, you
would know my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have
seen him."
8 Philip said, "Lord, show us the Father and that will be enough for
us."
9 Jesus answered: "Don't you know me, Philip, even after I have been
among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the
Father. How can you say, 'Show us the Father'? 10 Don't you believe
that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me? The words I say
to you are not just my own. Rather, it is the Father, living in me,
who is doing his work. 11 Believe me when I say that I am in the
Father and the Father is in me; or at least believe on the evidence of
the miracles themselves. 12 I tell you the truth, anyone who has faith
in me will do what I have been doing. He will do even greater things
than these, because I am going to the Father. 13 And I will do
whatever you ask in my name, so that the Son may bring glory to the
Father. 14 You may ask me for anything in my name, and I will do it.
NIV
arah
Islam, besides Christianity, is the only major world religion that
recognizes Jesus. A Muslim’s belief is incomplete without Jesus.
Prophet Muhammad said:
“If anyone testifies that none has the right to be worshipped but God
alone who has no partners, and that Muhammad is His servant and His
Messenger, and that Jesus is God’s servant and His Messenger and His
Word which He bestowed on Mary and a Spirit from Him, and that
Paradise is true, and Hell is true, God will admit him into Paradise
with the deeds which he has done even if those deeds were few.”[1]
In other words, without sound belief in Jesus, one can never earn
God’s Paradise. As with other prophets of God, Muslims add to his
name, alai his-salam, which means, ‘Peace be upon him.’[2] Even
though Jesus said, “Peace I leave with you; my peace I give you,”[3]
in the Gospel, Christians rarely use any honorific term but ‘Christ’,
and this as part of his name. Though this may be due to the idea that
the Christian does not pray for him, but to him, it shows that Muslims
have a great deal of respect for him despite not sharing such a
viewpoint.
Quran is the sacred scripture of Islam, and in it, more than ninety
verses spread across fifteen chapters of the Quran discuss Jesus.
Three chapters of the Quran are named after their reference to Jesus:
the third chapter of Quran, ‘The Family of Imran,’ is named after the
father of Mary; the fifth chapter, ‘The Table,’ is likely named after
the last supper. Lastly, the nineteenth chapter is named after Mary.
His Name in the Quran
In Arabic, Jesus is known as Eesa. In sixteen of the 25 places in the
Quran where Eesa is used, he is called “the son of Mary” (Ibn
Maryam). Since he had no father, he was named so after his mother.[4]
The Descriptive Titles of Jesus in the Quran:
(1) The Messiah
Prior to the appearance of Jesus, belief in the coming of the Messiah
has been a basic and fundamental part of traditional Judaism. It is
part of Maimonides’ Thirteen Articles of Faith which are considered
the minimum requirements of Jewish belief.[5] In the Shemoneh Esrei
prayer[6], recited three times daily, modern Jewry prays for the
Messiah who will be their king from the line of David to come and
restore the glories of its golden age. In Hebrew, ‘Messiah’ means the
‘anointed one.’ It is interesting to note that the Old Testament
prophecy emphasizes the humanity of the Messiah by referring to him as
the “son of man” (Daniel 7: 13)[7] and not God.
The ideology of the Messiah has a central position in Christian
theology. According to the Bible, Jesus claimed to be the expected
Messiah of the Jews (John 4:25-26)[8], but they rejected him.
Therefore, Christians apply ‘Christ’ - the Greek word for ‘Messiah’ -
to Jesus. In addition, they also maintain the Messiah will be the son
of God.
The Quran corrects Jews and Christians in their excesses. It
considers the Jews to be in the right in believing the Messiah to be
human, but equates their rejection of Jesus to disbelief,
“And (We cursed them) for their disbelief… and their boastful claim:
Indeed, we have killed the [so-called] Messiah, Jesus, the son of
Mary, the messenger of God. And they did not kill him, nor did they
crucify him.” (Quran 4:156-157)
On the other hand, the Quran agrees with the Christians who identify
Jesus to be the Messiah, but considers their insistence that the
Messiah is the son of God to be blasphemy:
“Indeed, they are unbelievers who say, ‘God is the Messiah, the son of
Mary.’” (Quran 5:72)
The truth, according to the Quran, is that:
“The Messiah, son of Mary, was no other than a messenger; messengers
before him had indeed passed away.” (Quran 5:75)
Furthermore, the Quran states that the Messiah called to the worship
of “the true God” like all the prophets before him:
“But the Messiah said, ‘O Children of Israel, worship God, my Lord and
your Lord.’” (Quran 5:72)
The Quran refers to Jesus as the Messiah (al-Maseeh) at least nine
times.[9] One of the explanations given by Muslim lexicographers is
that Jesus was the Messiah because he anointed the eyes of the blind
to cure them (Quran 3:43; Mark 6:13; James 5:14), or because he used
to lay hands on the sick.
(2) Sign
The Quran describes Jesus to be a ‘Sign,’ an aayah in the Quran. In
the terminology of the Quran a miracle is a ‘sign’ of God to display
divine might and unrestricted ability to do acts outside the chain of
cause and effect. In this sense, the virgin birth of Jesus is a
miracle; a wonderful show of God’s mighty power to do as He pleases.
Therefore, Jesus is a ‘sign’ not only to the Israelites but to the
entire world:
“And We made the son of Mary and his mother as a Sign.” (Quran 23:50)
“…We may make him a sign to men...” (Quran 19:21)
“and We made her and her son a sign for all peoples.” (Quran 21:91)
In addition, the Quran declares Jesus’ second coming to be a ‘sign,’
an announcement that the Judgment Day is coming close, “And indeed,
Jesus will be a sign for the Hour (of Judgment), so have no doubt
about it, and follow Me. This is a straight path.” (Quran 43:61)
http://www.islamreligion.com/articles/230/
On Jul 10, 11:27 pm, duke <duckgumb...@cox.net> wrote:
duke
>IF JESUS WAS GOD??
Not was, but IS.
>If Jesus was GOD, then why in Mark 12:29 Jesus said "Here, O Israel:
>The Lord our God is one Lord." The words "our God" indicate that Jesus
>had a higher God over him, a stronger God than him. Jesus didn't say
>"Your God". He said "our God" which includes Jesus as the creation of
>GOD.
One God, 3 persons. 1+1+1=1
>If Jesus was GOD, then why in John 20:17 Jesus said I ascend to my God
>and your God? This tells us that we and Jesus have a common GOD.
A simple issue of you being unable to comprehend.
duke
>
>Islam, besides Christianity, is the only major world religion that
>recognizes Jesus.
But not as the Son of God.
Jews and muslims see him the same way.
jwshe...@satx.rr.com
If you want to refute the Holy Trinity,
you might first try to understand it.
You might start with the Creed of Chalcedon.
We, then, following the holy Fathers, all with one consent, teach
men to confess one and the same Son, our Lord Jesus Christ, the same
perfect in Godhead and also perfect in manhood; truly God and truly
man, of a reasonable [rational] soul and body; consubstantial [co-
essential] with the Father according to the Godhead, and
consubstantial with us according to the Manhood; in all things like
unto us, without sin; begotten before all ages of the Father according
to the Godhead, and in these latter days, for us and for our
salvation, born of the Virgin Mary, the Mother of God, according to
the Manhood; one and the same Christ, Son, Lord, only begotten, to be
acknowledged in two natures, inconfusedly, unchangeably, indivisibly,
inseparably; the distinction of natures being by no means taken away
by the union, but rather the property of each nature being preserved,
and concurring in one Person and one Subsistence, not parted or
divided into two persons, but one and the same Son, and only begotten,
God the Word, the Lord Jesus Christ; as the prophets from the
beginning [have declared] concerning Him, and the Lord Jesus Christ
Himself has taught us, and the Creed of the holy Fathers has handed
down to us.
http://carm.org/christianity/creeds-and-confessions/chalcedonian-creed-451-ad
Dr. R. Knapp
> Islam, besides Christianity, is the only major world religion that
> recognizes Jesus. A Muslim’s belief is incomplete without Jesus.
> Prophet Muhammad said:
Well you are lying again then who cares what your prophet says or
said. Then I been in parts of the world that Buddhist are the main
religion and in talking to the monks they also recognize Jesus and I
was told that they believe that have to be enlighten to reach heaven
and that the true followers of Jesus have reached enlightenment. I
had some youth that went to the Temple and was told by the monks that
they did not have attend the service as they are already promised
Heaven. As over the years I lived in areas that the Hindus were the
largest religion in the area. They also knew about Jesus and I knew a
family that told me they accepted Jesus and got a image of Jesus to
worship along with their other gods. Those religions are as large as
your false Islam is. So again you will lie about anything to trick
them into denying God for your false religion and those religions have
thousands of years in business before Mohammad wrote the Qur'an.
Repent and accept the real God and Savior the Lord Jesus Christ and
reject Islam and live eternally with God and true believers.
Dr. R. Knapp
How can a mother be still a virgin and since there is a child born
from God. Mary can not be the mother of God and still be the mother
of a son that would make this very evil. She is the mother of the
father of the son that is also her child. Then the child of Mary's
husband that RCC says is the mother of Jesus own Father. No wonder
that Islam does not have much of a problem converting people to their
false religion.
Patrick
Dr. R. Knapp
> "Dr. R. Knapp" <rwkn...@gmail.com> wrote
>
> + GET OUT, knappo.
Turn off your computer and you will not see this so called "knappo"
arah
Can any Christian show me how detail the story of Virgin Mary in the
Bible?
Let me share the story of Mary in the Quran
When naming the best woman who ever lived, Mohammed named Mary (Maryam
in Arabic), the mother of Jesus, as the best woman to ever live.
Her Birth.
"When the wife of Imran said:
'O my Lord! I have vowed to You what is in my womb [my child] to be
dedicated to Your services, so accept this [my vow] from me. Verily,
All-Hearer, the All-Knowing.' Then we she delivered her she said:
'O my Lord! I have delivered a female child' - and Allah knew better
what she delivered - 'And the male is not like the female, and I have
named her Maryam and I seek refuge with You for her and for her
offspring from Satan, the outcast.' " (Quran 3:35-36)
The wife of Imran, and mother of Mary, out of her devotion to God
vowed to dedicate the child in her womb to the sacred service of God
and asked God to accept her vow. Her hopes were in a male child who
will be brought up to service the places of worship and be dedicated
to serve God. Delivering a female child, she realized that things did
not go according to her plan, but decided to fulfill her vow, and
Maryam was the name of the child. And she made a prayer for her newly
born asking God to protect her and her offspring from Satan. The
verses following described the response of God to the vow and to the
prayer of the mother:
"So her Lord accepted her [Maryam] with good acceptance." (Quran
3:37).
Her Upbringing.
Quran verses 3:37 continue ..
"So her Lord accepted her with good acceptance. He made her grow in a
good manner and put her under the care of Zachariya. Every time he
entered Al-Mihrab (the praying place) to visit her, he found her
supplied with sustenance [food]. He said:
'O Maryam! From where have you got this?' She said:
'This is from Allah. Verily, Allah provides sustenance who He wills,
without limit.' "
So Mary was accepted by God, and was brought up in a good manner after
she was put under the care of Zachary. Through her devotion and
righteous upbringing and the prayer from her mother, Mary became the
best woman to ever live as depicted in the Quran in the verses 3:42:
"And (remember) when the angels said: 'O Maryam (Mary)! Verily, Allah
(God) has chosen you, purified you (from polytheism and disbelief),
and chosen you above the women of the world (of her lifetime).' "
Mary Receives a Visit.
In the19th chapter of the Quran (which is called Maryam) Mary receives
a visitor from God:
"And mention in the Book, Maryam [i.e. mention, O Mohammed, in the
Quran the story of Mary], when she withdrew from her family to a place
facing east. She placed a screen from them; then We sent to her our
angel (Jibrael, or Gabriel), and he appeared before her in the form of
a man in full human form. She said:
'I seek refuge with The Most Beneficent [God] from you, if you do fear
Him.' (The angel) said:
'I am only a Messenger from your Lord, (to announce) to you the gift
of a righteous son.' She said:
'How can I have a son, when no man has touched me, nor am I unchaste?'
He (the angel) said:
'So (it will be), your Lord said: 'That is easy for Me: And to appoint
him as a sign to mankind and a mercy from Us (from God)', and it is a
matter (already) decreed (by God).' " (Quran 19:16-21)
In these verses, it is described how the pious virgin Mary is visited
by angel Gabriel, who appears before her in a form of a man. Not
knowing who he is, she fears for herself, but he asserts to her that
he is an angel, a Messenger from her Lord, and announces to her news
of her miraculous conception of a son. In shock, she questions,
affirming her chastity. The angel answers that such a conception,
though miraculous, is easy for The Lord, all He needs to say is "Be."
and it is. And that these are matters decreed by Him, for greater
purposes and to the benefit of mankind.
The Miracle.
And then, miraculously, Mary becomes pregnant. The emotional story of
her pregnancy follows:
"So she conceived him, and she withdrew with him to a far place . And
the pains of childbirth drove her to the trunk of a date-palm. She
said:
'Would that I had died before this, and had been forgotten and out of
sight!' Then a call unto her from bellow, said:
'Grieve not! Your Lord has provided a water stream under you; And
shake the trunk of the date-palm towards you, it will let fall fresh
ripe dates upon you. So eat and drink and be glad, and if you see any
human being, say:
'Verily! I have vowed a fast unto the Most Beneficent so I shall not
speak to any human being this day.' " (Quran 19:22-26)
From these versus one mentally pictures Mary, driven out of town, out
of sight to Bethlehem valley 4-6 miles from Jerusalem, in the pain of
labor, and in fear of what is going to happen to her. It is her first
child, she has no husband. What will her people, the Jews, say? What
will they do? How will she react? With all that, she wishes that she
was dead, but the God who gave her the miracle, the God to Whom she
worshipped, to Whom she devoted her life, did not forsake her. A voice
came from beneath her, soothing and comforting her, and guiding her.
And when she gave birth, the voice instructed her not to speak or
explain, but make a vow of silence and everything will workout.
"Then she brought him (the baby) to her people, carrying him. They
said:
'O Maryam! Indeed you have brought a thing which is greatly evil! O
sister of Haron (i.e. O you who we consider the like of Haron, who was
a pious man at the time of Mary)! Your father was not a bad man
(adulterous), nor was your mother an unchaste woman.' Then she pointed
to him (to the baby). They said:
'How can we talk to one who is a child, in the cradle?' " (Quran
19:27-29)
Mary gives birth to the child, and takes him back to her village. And
there Mary meets the Jews. Upon seeing her with her baby, they are
struck. In their eyes, she has done a heinous crime. Their argument
was: 'How could you do something so evil! We always considered you a
model person of piety, and you come from a pious family -- known and
respected!'. But Mary obeys the commands of her Lord. She is quiet and
points to the baby.
Jesus: Son of Mary
The Quran refers to Jesus as "Jesus son of Maryam" many times. All
Muslims believe that Jesus was miraculously born without a father by
Mary, the virgin. In previous sections, we read how Mary has an
exalted status over the rest of women of the world, and how she became
pregnant with Jesus.
Here we will discuss:
1. Jesus: His first miracle (from Quran and from Bible).
2. Jesus: Miracles and His Preaching.
3. The Table Spread.
4. The Evil Plot.
Jesus: His First Miracle.
After the questioning and accusations of the Jews (read the earlier
section), Mary in obedience to her Lord, spoke nothing and pointed to
the baby. The crowd was outraged. They proclaimed: 'What kind of an
answer is this! You turn to your child in your defense?!' And they
were right. Under normal circumstances and in usual situations this is
not a proper behavior of a sane person. But the circumstances were not
normal, and the situation was far from usual. It is then that the
miracle happened.
"They said:
'How can we talk to one who is a child, in the cradle?' He (The baby)
said:
'I am a slave of Allah [i.e. created by God and belong to Him], He has
given me the Scriptures and made me a Prophet; And He has made me
blessed wheresoever I be, and enjoined on me Salat (prayer), and Zakat
(giving alms to the poor) as long as I live. And dutiful to my mother
(i.e. made me kind and good to my mother) and made me not arrogant,
unblest. And peace be upon me the day I was born, and the day I shall
be raised alive (i.e. on The Day of Judgment and Resurrection)!'
"(Quran 19:29-33)
And this was the first miracle of Jesus son of Mary. Only a baby, he
talked to the Jews, asserting his subjugation to his Lord, and
describing that this miracle - his talking - is a sign from their Lord
- a sign of his prophet hood. He told them of the Scriptures to be
given to him from God, and told them that he was ordered to pray and
be kind to the poor as long as he lived. He told them that he was
blessed by God, and was kind and respectful to his great mother, not
arrogant. And that peace is upon him the day his was born, and peace
will be upon him the day he will be resurrected on The Day of Judgment
and Resurrection, when every person is going to be resurrected and
Judged by God according to his/her deeds.
The First Miracle in The Bible
In contrast, the Bible presents the first miracle performed by Jesus
in John:20. He was over 30 years of age when he turned water into
wine:
"And the third day there was a marriage in Cana of Galilee; and the
mother of Jesus was there: And both Jesus was called, and his
disciples, to the marriage. And when they wanted wine, the mother of
Jesus saith unto him, they have no wine. Jesus saith unto her,
'Woman, what have I to do with thee? mine hour is not yet come.'
His mother saith unto the servants, Whatsoever he saith unto you, do
it. And there were set there six water pots of stone, after the manner
of the purifying of the Jews, containing two or three firkins apiece.
Jesus saith unto them, Fill the water pots with water. And they filled
them up to the brim. And he saith unto them, Draw out now, and bear
unto the governor of the feast. And they bare it. When the ruler of
the feast had tasted the water that was made wine, and knew not whence
it was: (but the servants which drew the water knew;) the governor of
the feast called the bridegroom, And saith unto him, Every man at the
beginning doth set forth good wine; and when men have well drunk, then
that which is worse: but thou hast kept the good wine until
now." (John 2:110)
Jesus: Life Full of Miracles and Preaching.
The life of Jesus son of Mary was full of miracles. To this the Quran
states:
"He will speak to the people in the cradle and in manhood, and he will
be one of the righteous ... And He (God) will teach him (Jesus) the
Book and the wisdom (of the prophets) and the Torah and the Injeel
(name of Scriptures). And will make him a Messenger to the Children of
Israel (saying):
'I have come to you with a sign from your Lord, that I design for you
of clay, as it were, a figure of a bird and breathe into it, and it
becomes a bird by Allah's Leave (with God's Permission); and that I
heal him who is born blind, and the leper, and I bring to life, the
dead by Allah's Leave (with God's Permission). And I inform you of
what you eat, and what you store in your houses. Surely, this is a
sign for you, if you believe." (Quran 3:46,48-49)
Like all the Prophets, Jesus was given miracles as signs and support
from God to his divine inspiration. With that inspiration he
preached:
"And I have come confirming that which was before me of the Torah, and
to make lawful to you part of what was forbidden to you, and I have
come with proof from your Lord. So fear Allah (God) and obey me.
Truly! Allah (God) is my Lord and yours, so worship Him (Alone). This
is the Straight Path.' " (Quran 3:50-51).
http://bama.ua.edu/~msa/sonofmary.html
> false religion.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
arah
You should remove your "DR" if you believed in hearsay and you are
too lazy to do research!!!!!
Show me where in the Vedas or other Hindu Scriptures and the Book of
Buddha (if any) that mentioned the story of Jesus Christ and his
Virgin Mother Marry.
If you can't, stop lying, cheating and collecting donation from
others using the Church!!!!
You can check in every of my posts, I will included the references
from the Gospels, the Quran and the Hadith.
Sorry I don't believed the Epistles of Paul or Saul the Murderer. Do
you believe the false teaching of Paul?
arah
".....She is the mother of the father of the son that is also her
child....."
They do blaspheme
In blasphemy indeed are those that say that Allah is Al-Masih the son
of Maryam. Say: "Who then hath the least power against Allah, if His
Will were to destroy Al-Masih the son of Maryam, his mother, and all,
everyone that is on the earth? For to Allah belongeth the dominion of
the heavens and the earth, and all that is between. He createth what
He pleaseth. For Allah hath power over all things." Quran 5.17 ( Surat
Al-Mayda , verse 17)
They do blaspheme who say: "Allah is Al-Masih the son of Maryam." But
said Al-Masih: "O Children of Israel! Worship Allah, my Lord and your
Lord." Whoever joins other gods with Allah, Allah will forbid him the
Garden, and the Fire will be his abode. There will for the wrong-doers
be no one to help. Quran 5.72 ( Surat Al-Mayda, verse 72)
Jesus was no more than a Messenger
Al-Masih, the son of Maryam, was no more than a Messenger; many were
the Messengers that passed away before him. His mother was a woman of
truth. They had both to eat their (daily) food. See how Allah doth
make His Signs clear to them; yet see in what ways they are deluded
away from the truth! Quran 5.75 ( Surat Al-Mayda, verse 75)
He was no more than a servant: We granted Our favour to him, and We
made him an example to the Children of Israel. Quran 43.59 (Surat Az-
Zukhruf , verse 59)
O People of the Book! commit no excesses in your religion: nor say of
Allah aught but the truth. Al-Masih 'Isa the son of Maryam was (no
more than) A Messenger of Allah, and His Word, which He bestowed on
Maryam, and a Spirit proceeding from Him: so believe in Allah and His
Messengers. Quran 4.171 ( Surat An-Nisaa, verse 171) .
Al-Masih disdaineth not to serve and worship Allah, nor do the angels,
those nearest (to Allah): those who disdain His worship and are
arrogant, He will gather them all together unto Himself to (answer).
Quran 4.172 ( Surat An-Nisaa, verse 172)
It is not (possible) that a man, to whom is given the Book, and
Wisdom, and the Prophetic office, should say to people: "Be ye my
worshippers rather than Allah's": on the contrary (he would say): "Be
ye worshippers of Him Who is truly the Cherisher of all: for ye have
taught the Book and ye have studied it earnestly."Quran 3.79 ( Surat-
Alimran , verse 79)
They take their priests and their anchorites to be their lords in
derogation of Allah, and (they take as their Lord) Al-Masih, the son
of Maryam; yet they were commanded to worship but One God: there is no
god but He. Praise and glory to Him: (far is He) from having the
partners they associate (with Him). Quran 9.31 ( Surat At-Tawbah,
verse 31)
The similitude of 'Isa before Allah is as that of Adam; He created him
from dust, then said to him "Be": and he was. Quran 3.59 ( Surat
Alimran , Verse 59)
O 'Isa the son of Maryam!
And behold! Allah will say: "O 'Isa the son of Maryam! didst thou say
unto men, 'Worship me and my mother as gods in derogation of Allah'?"
He will say: "Glory to Thee! never could I say what I had no right (to
say). Had I said such a thing, Thou wouldst indeed have known it. Thou
knowest what is in my heart, though I know not what is in Thine. For
Thou knowest in full all that is hidden.117] "Never said I to them
aught except what Thou didst command me to say, to wit, 'Worship
Allah, my Lord and your Lord'; and I was a witness over them whilst I
dwelt amongst them; when thou didst take me up thou wast the Watcher
over them, and Thou art a witness to all things.
[118] "If Thou dost punish them, they are Thy servants: if Thou dost
forgive them, Thou art the Exalted in power, the Wise."119] Allah will
say: "This is a day on which the truthful will profit from their
truth: theirs are Gardens, with rivers flowing beneath, their eternal
home: Allah well-pleased with them, and they with Allah: that is the
great salvation, (The fulfilment of all desires). Quran 5.116 ( Surat
Al-Mayda, verse 116..118)
It is narrated on the authority of Abu Huraira that the Messenger of
Allah (may peace be upon him) observed: By Him in Whose hand is the
life of Muhammad, he who amongst the community of Jews or Christians
hears about me, but does not affirm his belief in that with which I
have been sent and dies in this state (of disbelief), he shall be but
one of the denizens of Hell-Fire. (Shahih Muslim, Book #001, Hadith
#0284)
Patrick
"Dr. R. Knapp" <rwk...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:6217e543-ae74-4e29...@hd10g2000vbb.googlegroups.com...
------------
+ We all know why you claim to
be a doctor. It is the same reason that you used to label
yourself "Bishop Knapp." You are insecure. You don't have
any real education. And you want to garner respect. You
somehow think that a title gives you that respect. However,
it really demeans you - especially when you can't back
up your title with words that should come from someone
that intelligent. You feel you have a lot to say. You feel that
people should listen to you. However, you haven't figured out
that you sound like a fool in most of your posts.
• R. L. Measures.
<bark...@erinot.com> wrote:
** P.B. -- so is this a takeoff on "get thee behind me Satan"?
--
Richard L. Measures. AG6K, 805-386-3734, www.somis.org
jwshe...@satx.rr.com
hearts, "Why does this man speak thus? It is blasphemy! Who can
forgive sins but God alone?" And immediately Jesus, perceiving in his
spirit that they thus questioned within themselves, said to them, "Why
do you question thus in your hearts? Which is easier, to say to the
paralytic, 'Your sins are forgiven,' or to say, 'Rise, take up your
pallet and walk'? But that you may know that the Son of man has
authority on earth to forgive sins" --he said to the paralytic-- "I
say to you, rise, take up your pallet and go home." And he rose, and
immediately took up the pallet and went out before them all; so that
they were all amazed and glorified God, saying, "We never saw anything
like this!"
--Mark 2:6-12
Patrick
". R. L. Measures." <r...@somis.org> wrote in message
news:rL-120711...@10.0.1.3...
> In article <4IWdnc2RI7n7DobT...@posted.localnet>, "Patrick"
> <bark...@erinot.com> wrote:
>
>>"Dr. R. Knapp" <rwk...@gmail.com> wrote
>>his normal trash talk.
>>
>>+ GET OUT, knappo.
>
> ** P.B. -- so is this a takeoff on "get thee behind me Satan"?
Exactly.
I haven't used that on knappo for a few years....
Dr. R. Knapp
> Bishop Knappo,
Should I call you now araho? If you need to insult people by name
calling that is up to you and it shows what your Islamic teachings
approve of.
>
> You should remove your "DR" if you believed in hearsay and you are
> too lazy to do research!!!!!
The Dr. is there because I earned it and since I do not believe in the
hearsay of Islam, it will remain. Then lazy is just stupid on your
part, since to dig in a garbage can, only will get one sick, I let you
do all that kind of research, your books are evil and deny the Deity
of Christ and your god is not the God of the Holy Bible. So since you
have nothing to remove maybe we should just call you r zero, or "O"
for "araho" Till you grow up and get back to facts, I will just give
you the "O" and say bye.
Dr. R. Knapp
> Bishop Knappo wrote:
Should I call you now araho? If you need to insult people by name
calling that is up to you and it shows what your Islamic teachings
approve of.
>
Take your false religion to the muslim newsgroups, as it is clear you
have no knowledge of what your talking about, as it is clear you do
not know who you are addressing as there is no such person as
"Knappo". You can not even use the correct name let alone the correct
God.
bye.
Dr. R. Knapp
> "Dr. R. Knapp" <rwkn...@gmail.com> wrote in messagenews:6217e543-ae74-4e29...@hd10g2000vbb.googlegroups.com...
> On Jul 11, 8:20 pm, "Patrick" <barker...@erinot.com> wrote:
>
> > "Dr. R. Knapp" <rwkn...@gmail.com> wrote
>
> > + GET OUT, knappo.
>
> Turn off your computer and you will not see this so called "knappo"
You can call or seek and never find this "knappo" with the computer on
or off. Beware reader Patrick wants your personal ID for what ever
reason, ID Theft is a crime.
Thank you again for replying it is always a joy to reply to you, even
if your dishonest and a liar.
Dr. R. Knapp
> In article <4IWdnc2RI7n7DobTnZ2dnUVZ_tCdn...@posted.localnet>, "Patrick"
>
> <barker...@erinot.com> wrote:
> >"Dr. R. Knapp" <rwkn...@gmail.com> wrote
> >his normal trash talk.
>
> >+ GET OUT, knappo.
>
> ** P.B. -- so is this a takeoff on "get thee behind me Satan"?
Then like the story on this, "was Satan told him/her it looks just as
great back here also." "Then maybe get behind me Satan so I can run
ahead so all can see me, made a fool of myself."
Hope you get a laugh out of all this, it seems to right up your line.
Dr. R. Knapp
> ". R. L. Measures." <r...@somis.org> wrote in messagenews:rL-120711...@10.0.1.3...
>
> > <barker...@erinot.com> wrote:
>
> >>his normal trash talk.
>
> >>+ GET OUT, knappo.
>
> > ** P.B. -- so is this a takeoff on "get thee behind me Satan"?
>
> Exactly.
> I haven't used that on knappo for a few years....
That is because, he used it on you many times in the last few years,
and the truth just hurts you too much, if there was a knappo, he would
say that.
Patrick
if your dishonest and a liar.
+ We all know why you claim to
Patrick
and the truth just hurts you too much, if there was a knappo, he would
say that.
+ We all know why you claim to
Patrick
Hope you get a laugh out of all this, it seems to right up your line.
Patrick
Should I call you now araho? If you need to insult people by name
calling that is up to you and it shows what your Islamic teachings
approve of.
+ We all know why you claim to
Patrick
have no knowledge of what your talking about, as it is clear you do
not know who you are addressing as there is no such person as
"Knappo". You can not even use the correct name let alone the correct
God.
+ We all know why you claim to
Dr. R. Knapp
> "Dr. R. Knapp" <rwkn...@gmail.com> wrote
>
> Should I call you now araho? If you need to insult people by name
> calling that is up to you and it shows what your Islamic teachings
> approve of.
>
> + We all know why you claim to
> be a doctor.
Good the truth is just more then you can understand Patrick. We all
know you want to steal personal information.
Patrick
news:684b5148-d25f-401f...@m22g2000yqh.googlegroups.com...
+ Why would I want to steal your information?
+ I certainly am not jealous of you, your family, your life.
+ You are a loozer, a fraud, and a blow-hard.
+ You are so insecure that you pretend to be something you are not.
+ What do you have that I would want?
Patrick
Sorry I don't believed the Epistles of Paul or Saul the Murderer. Do
you believe the false teaching of Paul?
Unhappy Muslims.! !
The Muslims are not happy...
They're not happy in Gaza .
They're not happy in Egypt .
They're not happy in Libya .
They're not happy in Morocco .
They're not happy in Iran .
They're not happy in Iraq .
They're not happy in Yemen .
They're not happy in Afghanistan .
They're not happy in Pakistan .
They're not happy in Syria .
They're not happy in Lebanon .
So, where are they happy?
They're happy in England .
They're happy in France .
They're happy in Italy .
They're happy in Germany .
They're happy in Sweden .
They're happy in the USA .
They're happy in Norway .
They're happy in every country that is not Muslim!
And who do they blame?
Not Islam.
Not their leadership.
Not themselves.
Not their own lethargy.
Not their own lack of industry.
Not their own primitive social moors.
THEY BLAME THE COUNTRIES THEY ARE HAPPY IN AND WANT TO...
CHANGE THEM INTO WHAT THEY HAD IN THEIR OWN COUNTRIES.!
Damned if THIS isn't true.! Never really thought about it from this
perspective... it's just plain TRUE.
Frankie Lee
> "arah" <arah1...@gmail.com> wrote \
great message!!!
• R. L. Measures.
<bark...@erinot.com> wrote:
** To me it's no surprise Patrick B. since there are 73 sects in
Islam/the religion of peace, many of which take delight in suicide-bombing
other Muslim sects. By all rights, Islam deserves to be called the
religion of blowing to pieces.
Alan Ferris
wrote:
>"Dr. R. Knapp" <rwk...@gmail.com> wrote i
>Hope you get a laugh out of all this, it seems to right up your line.
>
>
>+ We all know why I lie
"+I have told you, I do not learn, I will never learn.
+God said let them lie, so I lie." - P Barker 09NOV03
"+ I lie about you." - P Barker 23MAY07
Alan Ferris
wrote:
>"Dr. R. Knapp" <rwk...@gmail.com> wrote
>Take your false religion to the muslim newsgroups, as it is clear you
>have no knowledge of what your talking about, as it is clear you do
>not know who you are addressing as there is no such person as
>"Knappo". You can not even use the correct name let alone the correct
>God.
>
>+ We all know why you claim to
>be a doctor......
<rest of lies snipped>
Patrick
"Alan Ferris" <hairy....@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:t4nr171h5v4hrntcu...@4ax.com...
Lookeee here, alvin is defending the pretend "bishop."
Alan Ferris
wrote:
Just reminding people how you like to lie.
--
Ferrit
()'.'.'()
( (T) )
( ) . ( )
(")_(")
Dr. R. Knapp
> "Dr. R. Knapp" <rwkn...@gmail.com> wrote in messagenews:684b5148-d25f-401f...@m22g2000yqh.googlegroups.com...
> On Jul 12, 7:21 pm, "Patrick" <barker...@erinot.com> wrote:
>
> > "Dr. R. Knapp" <rwkn...@gmail.com> wrote
>
> > Should I call you now araho? If you need to insult people by name
> > calling that is up to you and it shows what your Islamic teachings
> > approve of.
>
> > + We all know why you claim to
> > be a doctor.
>
> Good the truth is just more then you can understand Patrick. We all
> know you want to steal personal information.
>
> + Why would I want to steal your information?
Because that is what you do, then it is you demanding information,
locations and such, that is what ID thief do, and if it walks like
duck, quick's like a duck it is a duck and you fit the analogy.
> + I certainly am not jealous of you, your family, your life.
That is what all looser say, when someone they do not like for what
ever reason can prove by a preponderant of facts, they are correct and
you can not attend to their level of the psychological result of
perception and learning and reasoning you so want to have.
> + You are a loozer, a fraud, and a blow-hard.
That is the answers that support what I just expressed above and does
show a form of "jealous" as well as immaturity.
> + You are so insecure that you pretend to be something you are not.
It seems you have a mental problem and protect unto others you own
Lacking self-confidence or assurance in yourself. I am in control and
very secure in Christ as well as my own ability. Then anyone that
wants to see you what I do not pretend to be and the results of what I
am and the blessings of Christ on what God has given to me as God is
secure and knows I do not pretend, as all the glory and rewards are
His, can see such at www.pioneers-for-Jesus.org That shows nothing is
pretended but is all real and that again is why you have such a self-
extreme problem.
> + What do you have that I would want?
The Love of God the Father and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit as
well as the friendship of the LORD Jesus Christ, to bless you as God
has blessed me, and the ministry, you show you never have or know.
It is that simple.
Rev. R. Knapp, D. Div, B.Theology, Founder of PFJ
Wusong
> great message!!!
Hey, Frankie (the Singaporean "house nigger") 汉奸 pile-of-dog-shit Lee!
You kept writing in these public Usenet groups that Jesus is a thief
who will steal you away in the middle of the night to take you to the
mansion which he has prepared for you. Why are you still here? Are you
not good enough for him, Frankie (the Singaporean "house nigger") 汉奸
Lee?
This fits you perfectly, doesn't it? Isaiah 53:3 .
Proof that you are a LIAR and a FRAUD, Frankie (the Singaporean "house
nigger") 汉奸 pile-of-dog-shit Lee.
Here are links proving irrefutably that you have lied - again and
again, and again:
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.singapore/msg/099ffc80202e34f7
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.singapore/msg/90e35749044ac347
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.singapore/msg/3ed31a4083dd0785
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.singapore/msg/5ed7ae230e045ad7
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.singapore/msg/186985ccc6c8edf8
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.china/msg/8fdc53c778da7b40?hl=en
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.atheism/msg/357230535a60a5b3
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.china/msg/1a944cf708586e8c?hl=en
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.china/msg/f8878e7666137efb?hl=en
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.singapore/msg/d9b72bd62982053f
These are not "articles", which you claimed, but links to posts by
various netters showing that you have lied.
You can't pray or wangle your way out of these, Frankie (Singaporean
"house nigger") Lee!
You can bet your Jesus' ass that I shall persist to expose you until
the day you enter the Gates of Hell - and then some!
Patrick
> > + We all know why you claim to
> > be a doctor.
+ Why would I want to steal your information?
+ I certainly am not jealous of you, your family, your life.
+ You are a loozer, a fraud, and a blow-hard.
+ You are so insecure that you pretend to be something you are not.
Alan Ferris
wrote:
>+ I certainly am not jealous of you, your family, your life.
>+ You are a loozer, a fraud, and a blow-hard.
"+I have told you, I do not learn, I will never learn.
+God said let them lie, so I lie." - P Barker 09NOV03
"+ I lie about you." - P Barker 23MAY07
Dr. R. Knapp
> "Dr. R. Knapp" <rwkn...@gmail.com> wrote
> Thank you again for replying it is always a joy to reply to you, even
> if your dishonest and a liar.
> + We all know why you claim to
> be a doctor. It is the same reason that you used to label
> yourself "Bishop Knapp." You are insecure. You don't have
> any real education.
It is strange that you would point out here the stuff you lied about
and think I need to answer your lies. Then we can all say you have
"any real education"!!
I sniped out the rest as just plain silly and without any foundation.
You just like any ID theft will say or used any terms to try to trick
them into giving you the information you want. So beware reader,
Patrick is not as smart as he tries to be, and you can question his
education, he will tell you a lot of stuff, then again the SCAM artist
does know how to do such. Be careful.
Dr. R. Knapp
> "Dr. R. Knapp" <rwkn...@gmail.com> wrote
> That is because, he used it on you many times in the last few years,
> and the truth just hurts you too much, if there was a knappo, he would
> say that.
> + We all know why you claim to
> be a doctor. It is the same reason that you used to label
> yourself "Bishop Knapp." You are insecure. You don't have
> any real education. And you want to garner respect. You
It is strange that you would point out here the stuff you lied about
and think I need to answer your lies. Then we can all say you have
"any real education"!!
I sniped out the rest as just plain silly and without any foundation.
You just like any ID theft will say or used any terms to try to trick
them into giving you the information you want. So beware reader,
Patrick is not as smart as he tries to be, and you can question his
education, he will tell you a lot of stuff, then again the SCAM artist
does know how to do such. Be careful.
Dr. R. Knapp
Dr. R. Knapp
Dr. R. Knapp
Yeah he is having a bad work day.
Dr. R. Knapp
> "Dr. R. Knapp" <rwkn...@gmail.com> wrote
> Take your false religion to the muslim newsgroups, as it is clear you
> have no knowledge of what your talking about, as it is clear you do
> not know who you are addressing as there is no such person as
> "Knappo". You can not even use the correct name let alone the correct
> God.
Please anyone that follows Islam, tell me you gave this "Patrick"
permission to post these kind of posting in your group. He seems to
think he can tell people what to do, and they for some strange reason
need to obey him. He seems to have a problem with the understanding
of the word "Clear". May be a real Muslim here will tell him about
Allah that he may get a CLEAR understanding. Then I wonder what name
he would call your holy prophet Muhammad maybe "Muammado" or maybe
"Allaho". It is clear he thinks he has some kind of right to do
such. Post to him, in what ever newsgroup you want to, as he also
linked this to your newsgroup here. Enjoy and please do not think he
is a typical Christian believer, his replies prove that as a fact. He
is an infidel according to the Qur'an.
Below is his post that he just cuts and puts in these groups, as he
thinks, he can do that and tell others what they can or can not do.
Patrick
Patrick
Patrick
Alan Ferris
wrote:
>"Dr. R. Knapp" <rwk...@gmail.com> wrote
>his normal uneducated drivel.
>
>
> + We all know why you claim to
Just as everybody knows your lies...
Dr. R. Knapp
> "Dr. R. Knapp" <rwkn...@gmail.com> wrote
Thank you Patrick for posting. Then I am a Bishop and so again thank
you for pointing that out. Then it is clear your education is
something one would not want. As it is plain to see, you just want to
steal Identifications and are so insecure. Now that is your problem,
when people can and do show the errors you promote in these newsgroups
Bishop R. Knapp.
arah
Wow, wow, you get mad and very upset just because I wrongly type your
name.
How about if I said that you have a out of wedlock child in
Philippine?
The Greatest Sin: Shirk (Polytheism)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Shirk (Polytheism: To associate anyone or anything with Almighty
Creator
The Greatest Sins is to associate anyone or anything with Almighty
Creator.
The following verse of the Holy Qur’an asserts:
“Surely Allah does not forgive that anything should be associated with
him, and forgives what is besides that to whomsoever He pleases, and
whoever associates anything with Allah, he devises indeed a great
sin.”
(Surah an-Nisā’ 4:48)
It means that whoever dies as a polytheist, there is no chance of his
salvation. Although Almighty Creator
may forgive any of those who have committed any other sin. Allah
(S.w.T.) says:
“Surely whoever associates (others) with Allah, then Allah has
forbidden to him the garden, and his abode is the fire; and there
shall be no helpers for the unjust.”
(Surah al-Mā’ida 5:72)
Also the Holy Qur’an states:
“Do not associate aught with Almighty Creator ; most surely polytheism
is a grievous inequity.”
(Surah Luqmān 31:13).
“And whoever associates anything with Almighty Creator , he devises
indeed a great sin.”
(Surah an-Nisā’ 4:48)
Every Muslim knows fully well that Shirk is a Greatest Sin. So it does
not seem necessary to quote the Qur’anic ayats and the traditions of
Ma’sūmīn (a.s.) in this regard. However, since it is important to
understand the true meaning of Shirk we shall quote the relevant
statements in order that people may keep aloof from this infamy. The
Holy Qur’an says,
“And worship Almighty Creator and do not associate anything with
Him.”
(Surah an-Nisā’ 4:36)
May Allah (S.w.T.) provide us the Tawfīq to discuss these different
aspects in detail.
Tawhid in the Essence of Allah (S.w.T.)
Tawhid with regard to the Essence of Allah (S.w.T.) denotes confessing
that the Essence of the Lord of the worlds is one, and that He is
Eternal. He is the Orignator of every action and phenomenon, whether
perceptible through senses or not. There is no other cause except Him.
Belief in multiple causes is Shirk. The Zoroastrians believe in the
existence of two powerful forces in the Universe, both being equal and
eternal. One is good, the other, evil. The god of good is Yazdan and
the god of evil is Ahriman. The following ayat of the Holy Qur’an is a
clear refutation of this false hypothesis.
“Say (O Muhammad): All is from Allah.”
(Surah an-Nisā’ 4:78)
The claim of the Dualists can be refuted with a simple statement that
there is no one except Allah (S.w.T.), who has been in existence since
eternity. Whatever was in past, present or future is nothing but good.
Or, at least we can say that good exceeds evil and that evil does not
hold sway over good.
However if we go on to explain all this in detail it would lead us
away from the topic of our discussion.
Christians Are Polytheists Too
The Christians believe in the trinity of the Godhead. The Father
(God), The Son (Jesus) and the Holy Ghost (Jibrīl). They believe that
each of them have a special quality and that together they constitute
the Godhead. The Qur’an flays their assertion thus:
“Certainly they disbelieve who say, ‘Surely Allah is the third
(person) of Three’; and there is no god but One God.”
(Surah al-Mā’ida 5:73)
The Holy Qur’an clearly states that Almighty Creator is not one-third
of a god. He is the One and only One God.
The belief in Trinity is not exclusive to the Christians. Hindus and
Buddhists also ascribe to it.
Idol Worship is Polytheism
Some people allege that there are separate gods for every phenomenon.
That is, god of wind, god of sea, etc. This is another form of
Polytheism. These people consider different creations to be the
handiwork of different gods. These idolaters and polytheists worship
multiple deities. Their polytheistic belief has also been denounced in
the Holy Qur’an:
“Are sundry lords better or Allah, the One, the Supreme?”
(Surah Yūsuf 12:39)
Tawhid in the Attributes of Allah (S.w.T.)
Tawhid with regards to the attributes of Almighty Creator means the
realization that the positive attributes of Almighty Creator and His
Essence have only one and the same sense, and not any multiple and
diverse sense. Divine attributes like Divine Eternity, Divine
Knowledge and Divine Power, are the same as his Essence without any
duality between His Essence and His attributes.
All the good qualities of the creatures are from the Almighty Creator
To consider all the good qualities of the created to be from Allah
(S.w.T.),Almighty Creator , is true Tawhid. It is our belief that all
the qualities possessed by the Prophets and the Imams (a.s.) were
given to them by Allah (S.w.T.)’s Grace. They did not come to acquire
any of these qualities on their own. Rather Allah (S.w.T.) bestowed
upon them superior knowledge, character, power and perfect morals and
exalted their position.
Consequently all that exists has not come into existence on its own.
But everything is dependent upon the Creator of the Universe. All the
good qualities have also been given to them by Allah (S.w.T.). If
Allah (S.w.T.) so desires, He increases their good qualities and gives
them sustenance.
Praising Ourselves Unknowingly
A discerning person realizes that our qualities are not our own and
that we are not capable of acquiring such qualities without Divine
assistance. Yet at times we mistakenly introduce our qualifications
as, “my knowledge, my strength, my intention, my wealth etc. Rather
one should say, my knowledge, which is bestowed upon me by Almighty
Creator
, my strength which is imparted to me by Almighty Creator , my
intention that is assisted by Allah (S.w.T.), my wealth which is from
Allah (S.w.T.).” This constant realization that all which we have is
because of Allah (S.w.T.)’s Grace; is true Tawhid.
One can be a true believer in the Oneness of Almighty Creator if his
words and actions both are in consonance with each other. Such a
person is more humble and lowly when he addresses his Creator and is
in constant dread of the sin of thanklessness. Another distinguishing
characteristic of such a person is that he is never pleased when
others praise him.
There is no Partner in the Divine Attributes
A true believer in Tawhid does not attribute any partners to Almighty
Creator nor does he praise anyone in the manner that Almighty Creator
is praised. Everyday he repeats, “SubhanAllah” [Glory be (only) to
Allah]. This implies that he does not deem it fit to praise anyone or
anything except Allah (S.w.T.). When he says “Alhamdu lil-Lah” (Praise
is only for Allah (S.w.T.)), he implies that all praise is exclusive
to Allah (S.w.T.) only. No one is more deserving of praise and
glorification but the one and only Allah (S.w.T.).
Explanations
When a person becomes a true Muwahhid (a believer in the Oneness of
Almighty Creator) he does not consider anyone the true possessor of
perfect qualities. All of these are dependent upon Allah (S.w.T.) who
is only one, absolutely independent. The Holy Qur’an says:
“O men! you are they who stand in need of Allah. And Allah is He who
is self-sufficient, the praised one.”
(Surah Fāt’ir 35:15)
That is the reason why pious people refrain from praising themselves
and also fear the praise of others for them. ‘Ali (a.s.) has mentioned
this in the sermon quoted above. We must also refrain from words,
which imply the independence of man from Allah (S.w.T.) and instead
attribute uniqueness to him. For example one should not say, “I
possess such and such quality.”
A Saying of the Holy Prophet (S)
Once a man approached the door of the exalted Prophet Muhammad Mustafa
(S) and knocked. The Holy Prophet (S) enquired who he was. The person
replied, “I” The Prophet came out and said, “Who was the one to say
‘I’? Let it be known that except Allah (S.w.T.) no one is qualified to
use this word. Allah (S.w.T.) says about Himself, I am the Powerful, I
am the Punisher.’
Qarūn Became a Polythiest
Qarūn became a polytheist because he dared to say that all he had come
to possess was due to his knowledge of alchemy. Thus, when Qarūn made
himself an accomplice of the One and only God in possessing the Divine
attributes, Allah (S.w.T.) replied,
“Did he not know that Allah had destroyed before him the generations
who were mightier in strength than he, and Greater in assemblage?”
(Surah al-Qaŝaŝ 28:78)
Later, we see that Qarūn was not able to save himself from destruction
even though he claimed to possess strength and power. Thus we must
understand that any qualities of the creatures are not of their own
but given to them by the Most Powerful Almighty Allah.
Tawhid and Shirk in Acts of Almighty Creator
Tawhid in deeds construe that we have conviction that the Lord and
Master of every form of life whether material or spiritual is Allah
(S.w.T.). He alone controls and regulates life. We must also have the
conviction that Allah (S.w.T.) does not have anyone to share in His
Lordship and control. His authority extends over the entire earth and
the skies. No one is an accomplice of Him in this regard.
As the Qur’an says:
“Allah is He who created seven Heavens, and of the earth the like of
them; the decree continues to descend among them, that you may know
that Allah has power over all things and that Allah indeed encompasses
all things in (His) knowledge.”
(Surah at-Talāq 65:12)
We must acknowledge that Allah (S.w.T.) is the creator of the Heavens.
We must have a firm belief that He has created the countless stars.
Their number has not been ascertained till today. Modern science has
computed that there are approximately ten million stars, each of them
capable of having a habitation similar to the earth. Each one of them
possess a different light and they revolve in their own orbits without
clashing with the other Heavenly bodies.
“And the stars are made subservient by His commands.”
(Surah an-Nahl 16:12)
One of such stars is the Sun, the volume of which is 1.3 million times
more than our Earth. It has been bestowed with such a powerful light
that within seconds it traverses the distance between the Sun and the
Earth. The Earth is illuminated by solar light and the life on Earth
is sustained by the nourishment received from this light. “Glory be
only to Allah the Mighty Creator.”
Myriad Colours From Colourless Water
It is the Unique Allah (S.w.T.) who has caused the growth of plants
and trees from the bosom of the earth. These plants bear flowers with
color and fragrance. The green leaves of the trees and the colourful
vegetation is but by the uncomparable power of Creator. The Creator
has also given to the human beings the ability to see and appreciate
the colourful herbage and the floral outgrowths.
Hence man must contemplate upon the Creator who has caused all this to
come into existence. He must also acknowledge the One who has created
him.
Who Splits the Ovum and the Seed?
The Master of the Universe is one who causes the seed to split. A part
of it grows towards the depths of the earth and becomes the root. The
root absorbs nourishment from the earth and supplies it to the main
body. The plumule develops into stem and bears leaves. These leaves
help in processing of the food which is supplied by the roots.
Gradually the plant puts forth colourful and fragrant flowers and
tasty fruits. All this is made to come in existence by the combination
of the earth, air and water, all Three of which combine to provide
different kinds of tastes, smells and colours. The human beings are
made capable of discerning the myriad tastes and colours so that they
can appreciate the bounties of Allah (S.w.T.) and know their Creator.
In Three Darknesses
Almighty Creator is that uncomparable Being who has caused the
creation of every animal from the unclean sperm. The human being is
conceived in the triple covering of the womb. Later, he is bestowed
with the discriminating intellect which enables him to ponder upon the
qualities and the signs of Allah (S.w.T.) and also so that he may
compare his ownself with other creatures by the help of his inward
eye.
Nutritious Milk From Dirty Blood
Almighty Creator is the One who created milk from the dirty red blood
and caused it to flow from the mammary glands of the animals and
humans so that it may reach the gullets of infants.
“And most surely there is a lesson for you in cattle; We give to drink
of what is in their bellies from betwixt the faeces and the blood -
pure milk, easy and agreeable to swallow for those who drink.”
(Surah an-Nahl 16:66)
When the young ones are not yet capable of digesting solid food it is
only milk which nourishes them. And the provider of this milk is Allah
(S.w.T.). He is the bestower of every benefit.
“Say: All is from Allah..”
(Surah an-Nisā’ 4:78)
Bestows Sustenance: Accepts Deeds
Almighty Creator is the sustainer of all living creatures. He
distributes His bounties freely to one and all. He gives sustenance to
whom He chooses without measure. His unlimited Mercy spreads over His
entire creation. He accepts the invocation of all those who plead to
Him and removes the difficulties of whomsoever He wishes.
The absolute belief in Tawhid implies that one should understand
fully, the meaning of the phrase, “There is no Power or Might except
By Allah.” In other words it is the essence of the Kalima “La ilahā
illa-Allah.” (There is no god except Allah (S.w.T.)).
Almighty Creator is the Cause of Every Phenomenon
Allah (S.w.T.) is the origin of every life. He is the origin of the
characteristics of life imparted to each and every creature. The
characteristics of all creation are manifested by the Will of Allah
(S.w.T.). Therefore it is no wonder if the established quality of a
particular thing may undergo a sudden change if Allah (S.w.T.) so
wishes; as it happened in the case of fire lighted by Namrūd, which
became cool by the Will of Allah (S.w.T.). The details of such
phenomena shall be explained in the following pages.
No Limit to the Splendour of Allah (S.w.T.)’s Might
Allah (S.w.T.), the Almighty is the One who brings assistance to the
needy beseechers, provides relief to the afflicted who cry out for
help and in His hands is all the good. “He is Allah the Creator, the
Maker, the Fashioner, the Sustainer, the Giver of life and death the
Bestower of benefits, the Punisher, the Acceptor of prayers, the
Obeyed One and the Praised.” The names and attributes of Allah
manifest His greatness. The phrase ‘Rabbul Ālamīn’ (Lord of the
worlds) is central to the Divine names. But intellect and reason is
bewildered in understanding His attributes, and speech and expression
is dumbfounded by His greatness.
(Almanac page 149)
The Holy Qur’an says:
“Say, if the sea were ink for the words of my Lord, the sea would
surely be consumed before the words of my Lord are exhausted, though
we were to bring the like of that (sea) to add thereto.”
(Surah al-Kahf 18:109)
Human Strength
Whatever a human being is able to achieve, is by the strength, the
capacity, intellect and will power bestowed on him by Allah (S.w.T.).
By thought and perseverance, he can make use of these favours to
distinguish between good and evil and perform his deeds. Anyone who
does not ponder upon the designs which embellish the doors and walls
of this world is himself lifeless like the walls. The observation of
the creations around him offer enlightenment to the intelligent mind.
But one who does not deliberate (ponder), cannot know Allah (S.w.T.)
through His creations and thus he rejects the existence of Allah
(S.w.T.).
Is there anyone who could produce sweet fruits from woods (of trees)?
Does anyone possess the miraculous capability of growing colourful
flowers from (among) the thorns? He is that Pure and Flawless God who
by His Divine plan and order created the day and the night and gave
the light to the sun and the moon.
He is an incomparable king who neither requires a constitution nor a
treasure. He is that designer who does not need paints or the tools of
designing.
He causes the water springs to erupt from the stones and makes the
rain to descend from the clouds. He creates honey from the bee and
silk from the silkworm.
If all the creatures come together to discuss the bounties of Allah
(S.w.T.) and continue upto the Day of Qiyāma, they will not have
accomplished even a thousandth fraction of their task.
“And if you count Allah’s favours, you will not be able to number
them; most surely Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.”
(Surah an-Nahl 16:18)
Human Strength is Limited by Divine Will
The strength and the capacity of all the human beings is surrounded by
the Divine decree and Allah (S.w.T.)’s will. As we see that a person
makes an intention to do something but at the last moment his plans
are foiled.
He is unable to complete the task that he had initiated due to the
loss of capacity. Actually, what he intended to do was against the
Divine will and thus he is hindered from the task. A person inquired
from Amir ul-Mu’minīn ‘Ali (a.s.), “My Master! How did you recognise
(realize) Allah?” He replied, “I recognised Him by witnessing the
abrogation of intention and the failures of strengths.” Allah,
undoubtedly is the initiator of all that moves in the Universe and He
is the original cause of the various effects in the created world. To
acknowledge Allah as the base of everything and to have a firm belief
in this is the pinnacle of Tawhid (Belief in the Oneness of Allah).
However very few people are able to achieve this stage of Tawhid. But
if one develops a firm conviction that the cause of every effect,
whether material or spiritual is Allah, alone, he develops some
peculiar characteristics. One of such characteristics is the Fear of
Allah (S.w.T.).
Fear of Allah (S.w.T.)
A believer who has reached the highest stage of belief fears nothing
but the Might of Allah (S.w.T.) and his own sins. It is because he has
realized that all the creatures from Adam (a.s.) to the angels and all
the animals, birds and insects are the obedient soldiers of Allah
(S.w.T.). None of them move a step without His command. Hence they
could not cause any harm or benefit without Allah (S.w.T.)’s
permission. When a person develops this belief he is not fearful of
anything. Even if all the swords of the world come to attack. If Allah
(S.w.T.) wills, not a single nerve could be cut by them.
The opposition of both the friend and the foe is from Allah (S.w.T.).
Because the hearts of both are in the control of Allah (S.w.T.).
However evil the claimant may intend, only that which Allah (S.w.T.)
permits comes to pass. There is a tradition that,
“The extreme kind of belief consists of not fearing anything except
Allah.”
The Holy Prophet (S) used to recite this in prostration.
“O Allah if Your anger is not upon me then there is nothing I care
for.”
Reliance Upon Allah (S.w.T.)
When a believer has developed a firm and complete conviction that
apart from Allah (S.w.T.) no one is the Lord of the creation and none
is the cause of all the causes except Him, He does not repose hope in
anyone except Allah (S.w.T.). Hazrat ‘Ali (a.s.) states:
“You must not rely upon anyone except the Lord.”
(Nahjul Balagha).
As we have mentioned before, the origin of everything is Allah
(S.w.T.) and the centre of all creation is He alone. In the same way
every goodness of man for his fellowbeings also originates from Allah
(S.w.T.). As it is mentioned in the Holy Qur’an,
“Good actions are only from His (Allah’s) hands.”
At the end of Surah Yūnus Almighty Creator says,
“And if Allah should afflict you with harm, then there is none to
remove it but He, and if He intends good to you there is none to repel
His grace; He brings it to whom He pleases of His servants; and He is
the Forgiving, the Merciful.”
(Surah Yūnus 10:107)
At another place the Qur’an says, “And whatever favour is (bestowed)
on you, it is from Allah...”
(Surah an-Nahl 16:53)
Thus, it is clear from the above discussion that all that is present
in the material and the ethereal spheres is subservient to Almighty
Creator .
“There is no one in the heavens and the earth but will come to the
Beneficient God as a servant.”
(Surah Maryam 19:93)
If someone reposes hope in anyone except Allah (S.w.T.) his hopes are
extinguished so that he can realize his true master, i.e. Allah
(S.w.T.).
“I will severe the ties of hope of those who repose hope in others.”
The master of the Universe is Allah (S.w.T.) and He bestows all the
bounties, hence He must be thanked for these. Because all the good
deeds are only through His hands. He gives whatever goodness He likes
to anyone of His choice. That is why we say with a firm belief, “Al-
hamdu lil-Lah” (The praise is only for Allah (S.w.T.)).
Patrick
On Jul 14, 4:25 pm, "Patrick" <barker...@erinot.com> wrote:
> "Dr. R. Knapp" <rwkn...@gmail.com> wrote
Thank you Patrick for posting.
+ Oh, you are very welcome.
-----------
Then I am a Bishop and so again thank
you for pointing that out. Then it is clear your education is
something one would not want. As it is plain to see, you just want to
steal Identifications and are so insecure. Now that is your problem,
when people can and do show the errors you promote in these newsgroups
+ We all know why you claim to
be a doctor. It is the same reason that you used to label
yourself "Bishop Knapp." You are insecure. You don't have
jwshe...@satx.rr.com
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the
Word was God.
2 The same was in the beginning with God.
3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made
that was made.
4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it
not.
6 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John.
7 The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all
men through him might believe.
8 He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light.
9 That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into
the world.
10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world
knew him not.
11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not.
12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the
sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of
the will of man, but of God.
14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his
glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace
and truth.
jane
On Jul 16, 7:39 pm, jwsheffi...@satx.rr.com wrote:
> John Chapter 1
> 1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the
> Word was God.
>
> 2 The same was in the beginning with God.
The Gospel of John:
"Many scholars of the past two centuries have denied that John wrote
this book, partly because of their belief that the author fabricated
many details such as the miracles and the discourses of Jesus. (The
Holman Illustrated Study Bible, ISBN: 978-1-58640-275-4, Gospel of
John, Page1540)"
"Critical Analysis makes it difficult to accept the idea that the
gospel as it now stands was written by one person. (The New American
Bible, ISBN: 978-0-529-06484-4, Page 1136)"
"Within the gospel itself there are also some inconsistencies. (The
New American Bible, ISBN: 978-0-529-06484-4, Page 1136)"
"To solve these problems, scholars have proposed various
rearrangements that would produce a smoother order. However, most
have come to the conclusion that the inconsistencies were probably
produced by subsequent editing in which homogeneous materials were
added to a shorter original. (The New American Bible, ISBN:
978-0-529-06484-4, Page 1136)"
"Other difficulties for any theory of eyewitness authorship of the
gospel in its present form are presented by its highly developed
theology and by certain elements of its literary style. (The New
American Bible, ISBN: 978-0-529-06484-4, Page 1136)"
"The gospel contains many details about Jesus not found in the
synoptic gospels. (The New American Bible, ISBN: 978-0-529-06484-4,
Page 1136)"
"The final editing of the gospel and arrangement in its present form
probably dates from between A.D. 90 and 100. Traditionally, Ephesus
has been favored as the place of composition, though many support a
location in Syria, perhaps the city of Antioch, while some have
suggested other places, including Alexandria. (The New American
Bible, ISBN: 978-0-529-06484-4, Page 1136)"
So again, no one knows regarding the "Gospel of John":
Who wrote it.
How many people wrote it.
When it was written.
Where it was written.
Also, when one reads this gospel, he would immediately notice that it
was not written by John himself. Christians say that it was John the
Apostle writting about John the Baptist. The evidence in the quotes
above clearly proves that this is a desperate lie! I submit to you
that neither John wrote anything! Let us look at the following verses
from the gospel:
"And this is the record of John, when the Jews sent priests and
Levites from Jerusalem to ask him, Who art thou? (From the King James
Version Bible, John 1:19)"
"John answered them, saying, I baptize with water: but there standeth
one among you, whom ye know not; (From the King James Version Bible,
John 1:26)"
"For John was not yet cast into prison. (From the King James Version
Bible, John 3:24)"
etc...
Whoever wrote the gospel, was he appointed or inspired by GOD
Almighty? If yes, then who is that man? It can't be John for it is
quite obvious from the above verses and many more throughout the
gospel that John wasn't the original author. One has to be
ridiculously biased and blind in faith to deny that.
So now, what about these most popular verses:
"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the
Word was God. (From the King James Version Bible, John 1:1)"
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that
whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting
life. (From the King James Version Bible, John 3:16)"
These verses were obviously written by mysterious men and not by any
of Jesus' original disciples. Therefore, it is blasphemy to consider
such verses as Divine and to try to prove Jesus is the Creator of the
Universe through them. The lie of trinity was born between the years
of 150 to 300. It is quite possible and highly probable that some
church wrote the so-called "Gospel of John" from excerpts that they
found. Notice that there are 24,000 "letters" or papers found that
were not included in today's New Testament, which means that the
excerpts that were used for writing the "Gospel of John" and all of
the other books and gospels of the NT are highly doubtful and contain
no proof what so ever that they were written by any of Jesus' original
disciples. The Gospel of John was written about John but not by the
original "Saint John". Big difference and big corruption! You can't
consider such rubbish as GOD Almighty's Divine Holy Words.
Again, please visit: The Gospel of John, Gospel or gossip? to see
proof about early Christians rejecting the so-called Gospel of John.
They believed it was all man-made.
Was Jesus crucified on a tree (according to Peter), cross (according
to others), or never got crucified (according to Islam)?
None of Jesus' disciples witnessed the crucifixion. They "all fled"
and "deserted" Jesus. This further confirms Islam's claims.
Hebrews 5:7-8 confirm Islam's claim about Jesus never got crucified
and contradicts the Bible! According to the documentary film, "Banned
from the Bible", which I watched on the History Channel, some of Saint
Peter's apocalypse were banned from the current Bible, and these
Epistles contain what Islam claims - that Jesus didn't get crucified
on the cross and it only appeared that he was. This banned part also
says that Jesus was standing next to the cross laughing. These are
the parts of the Bible that only few people in the world know about.
According to the documentary film, the apocalypse was very popular
among Christians during the 2nd century. They believed "it was
spiritually inspired" by GOD Almighty to Saint Peter. They actually
had doubts about "John's apocalypse", which is known today as "the
Book of Revelation". Interestingly also, this apocalypse says that
after GOD Almighty fills both Heaven and Hell with inhabitants from
Mankind, and the people of Hell get tortured for a long period of
time, the People of Heaven will ask and Pray to GOD Almighty to
Forgive the people of Hell. GOD Almighty will then eventually listen
to their Prayers, and will order the "Gates and the Steel Bars of
Hell" to be opened and allow the people of Hell to enter Heaven for
Good. This apocalypse of Peter seems to also perfectly fit Noble
Verse 7:40 in the Noble Quran where Allah Almighty Promised that He
will eventually open the Gates of Heaven to all disbelievers and empty
Hell. Please visit: Hell will eventually be empty according to Islam.
Jesus is a hypocrite for bowing down to GOD only during his desperate
times. See another proof in the Bible that Jesus can not be the
Creator of the Universe.
http://www.answering-christianity.com/jesus_hypocrite.htm
The Gospel of 1 John:
"....Unlike most NT letters, 1 John does not tell us who its author
is. The earliest identification of him comes from the church
fathers...(From the NIV Bible Commentary [1], page 1904)"
"The letter is difficult to date with precision....(From the NIV Bible
Commentary [1], page 1905)"
This is really ironic! with all respect due to Christians. If the
Book's author is not for sure known, then why assume that it was Saint
John who wrote it?
Please visit The lie of 1 John 5:7. This verse was later discovered
to be a Satanic lie. The Roman Catholic Theologians don't believe in
it, and it doesn't exist in their Bibles.
The same case where no author is really known exists in the Gospels of
2 and 3 John.
jwshe...@satx.rr.com
""Many scholars of the past two centuries have denied that John wrote
this book"
You are quoting scholars from the 20th century. Lets quote
an author from the 2nd who heard Polycarp in his youth and
Polycarp knew the Apostle John, Irenaeus of Lyons.
"So Matthew ... issued a writting of the gospel...Peter and Paul
were preaching the gospel at Rome...after their decease, Mark, the
disciple
and interpreter of Peter, also handed down to us in writting what
Peter
had preached. Then Luke, the follower of Paul, recorded in a book
the gospel as it was preached by him. Finally John, the disciple of
the
Lord,
who had also lain on his breast, himself published the Gospel,
while he was residing at Ephesus in Asia."
"Early Christian Fathers", Cyril C. Richardson, P 370
Dr. R. Knapp
> "Dr. R. Knapp" <rwkn...@gmail.com> wrote in messagenews:6217e543-ae74-4e29...@hd10g2000vbb.googlegroups.com...
> On Jul 11, 8:20 pm, "Patrick" <barker...@erinot.com> wrote:
>
> > + GET OUT, knappo.
>
> Turn off your computer and you will not see this so called "knappo"
> ------------
Nice to see your still stuck with this "knappo"
Dr. R. Knapp
> "Dr. R. Knapp" <rwkn...@gmail.com> wrote .
> On Jul 14, 4:25 pm, "Patrick" <barker...@erinot.com> wrote:
>
> > "Dr. R. Knapp" <rwkn...@gmail.com> wrote
>
> Thank you Patrick for posting.
>
> + Oh, you are very welcome.
Thank you again it shows all the Roman Catholic people here, that you
have invited me in their newsgroups, then you forgot you did it.
> -----------
So I will now show you what the Bible has to say about persons that
mock them that are in the ministry and serving the Lord Jesus Christ
and the Church, He set up on earth to so it could preach the Gospel to
all the world. Matt 28:19-20
Luke 18:9-14 Also He spoke this parable to some who trusted in
themselves that they were righteous, and despised others: 10 "Two men
went up to the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax
collector. 11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself,'God, I
thank You that I am not like other men — extortioners, unjust,
adulterers, or even as this tax collector. 12 I fast twice a week; I
give tithes of all that I possess.' 13 And the tax collector,
standing afar off, would not so much as raise his eyes to heaven, but
beat his breast, saying, 'God, be merciful to me a sinner!' 14 I tell
you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other;
for everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, and he who humbles
himself will be exalted." NKJV
2 Tim 3:1-9 But know this, that in the last days perilous times will
come: 2 For men will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money,
boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful,
unholy, 3 unloving, unforgiving, slanderers, without self-control,
brutal, despisers of good, 4 traitors, headstrong, haughty, lovers of
pleasure rather than lovers of God, 5 having a form of godliness but
denying its power. And from such people turn away! 6 For of this sort
are those who creep into households and make captives of gullible
women loaded down with sins, led away by various lusts, 7 always
learning and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth. 8 Now
as Jannes and Jambres resisted Moses, so do these also resist the
truth: men of corrupt minds, disapproved concerning the faith; 9 but
they will progress no further, for their folly will be manifest to
all, as theirs also was. NKJV
You may despise others and mock their education and families etc. to
try to steal their ID as a thief does, but these verse show you what
the Holy Bible has to say. Not my mind or the RCC mind, not the Popes
or Bishops ideas. But as I pointed out before the Word of God is the
rule book for ones life.
May the readers check out the newsletters, videos, tapes and lots of
pictures of baptisms and Chinese and Philippine folks that God has led
me to be their Bishop and by His grace my the Lord Jesus Christ
receive all the glory and praise.
Check out the website and pray for the name of Jesus to be on every
tongue and praise Him till He comes again. www.pioneers-for-Jesus.org
See for yourself what God can do, no matter who you are, your
education or your family background, Give your life to God and the
Service of God in the Church and be blessed.
Phil 2:9-11 Therefore God exalted him to the highest place
and gave him the name that is above every name,
10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow,
in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
11 and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord,
to the glory of God the Father. NIV
Rev. Dr. R. Knapp
Founder Pioneers for Jesus
arah
Jwshef.
Let us do some research, who is Peter and what did Jesus said about
Peter
Peter the Liar
One of the esteemed disciples of Jesus was Peter, amongst Christians
he is also called ?saint' Peter and is often times regarded as the
highest ranking apostle.
However when one reads the Gospels one will come out of it with a
rather bad image of this supposed saint and great apostle. One will
come to find out that Peter is nothing more than a liar, and a
coward.
Let me make it clear that I am only arguing based on what the Gospels
are telling us, I am not trying to purposely be mean or bad to the
apostles, whom I consider to be Muslims and great men, I am just
dealing with what the false Gospels tell us about these men.
With that said let us show the evidence that Peter is both a liar, and
a coward, I quote from the Gospel of Mark chapter 14, starting with
verses 30 to 31:
30 And Jesus saith unto him, Verily I say unto thee, That this day,
even in this night, before the cock crow twice, thou shalt deny me
thrice. 31 But he spake the more vehemently, If I should die with
thee, I will not deny thee in any wise. Likewise also said they all.
Here we see Jesus telling Peter that Peter will deny his association
with Jesus, basically what this means is that Peter will deny having
anything to do with Jesus, that he is not one of his followers. Peter
responds back to Jesus by denying he will do such a thing, and that
even he were to be killed he would not deny Jesus. However so let us
read if Peter was being honest, we read in verses 66 to 72:
66 And as Peter was beneath in the palace, there cometh one of the
maids of the high priest: 67 And when she saw Peter warming himself,
she looked upon him, and said, And thou also wast with Jesus of
Nazareth. 68 But he denied, saying, I know not, neither understand I
what thou sayest. And he went out into the porch; and the cock crew.
69 And a maid saw him again, and began to say to them that stood by,
This is one of them. 70 And he denied it again. And a little after,
they that stood by said again to Peter, Surely thou art one of them:
for thou art a Galilaean, and thy speech agreeth thereto. 71 But he
began to curse and to swear, saying, I know not this man of whom ye
speak. 72 And the second time the cock crew. And Peter called to mind
the word that Jesus said unto him, Before the cock crow twice, thou
shalt deny me thrice. And when he thought thereon, he wept.
So as you can see when the pressure was on, when the mob was
confronting Peter for being a follower of Jesus, Peter denied any
association with Jesus! So much going to death for Jesus! As we can
see, Peter LIED to Jesus' face when he said he would never deny him.
This also makes us wonder; if Peter believed that Jesus was God would
he deny him and run away from him?! The obvious answer is NO, how can
a man deny God? How can a man be fearful for his life in defending God
himself?!
The fact is all of this not only shows that Peter is a liar, and a
coward, but that he also sure as heck didn't believe that Jesus was
God!
When we compare and contrast this to the Prophet Muhammad's companions
we see who has true faith and who does not, the prophet's companions
were always willing to lay down their lives to protect the prophet,
often times putting themselves in harms way so the prophet would be
safe.
Yet these disciples were too cowardly to protect God!
Either way the Peter OF THE BIBLE is certainly no saint or hero, he is
a coward, and a liar, nothing more and nothing less.
And Allah Knows Best!
by Sami Zaatari
• R. L. Measures.
<074b7436-2803-4bdd...@e7g2000vbw.googlegroups.com>, arah
<arah...@gmail.com> wrote:
>Jwshef.
>
>Let us do some research, who is Peter and what did Jesus said about
>Peter
>
>Peter the Liar
>
>One of the esteemed disciples of Jesus was Peter, amongst Christians
>he is also called ?saint' Peter and is often times regarded as the
>highest ranking apostle.
>
>
>
>However when one reads the Gospels one will come out of it with a
>rather bad image of this supposed saint and great apostle. One will
>come to find out that Peter is nothing more than a liar, and a
>coward.
>...<snip>
** Quite true but at least Peter did not have coitus with a girl before
her 9th birthday.
--
Richard L. Measures. AG6K, 805-386-3734, www.somis.org
jwshe...@satx.rr.com
Religion [Hardcover]
Robert Spencer (Author)
A respectul but hard hitting discussion of the sources of intolerance
in Islam, October 21, 2006
By Craig Matteson (Saline, MI) - (TOP 50 REVIEWER) (REAL NAME)
This review is from: The Truth About Muhammad: Founder of the World's
Most Intolerant Religion (Hardcover)
Robert Spencer is one of the voices speaking clearly about where the
Jihadists derive their core beliefs and patterns for their actions.
The title of this book is not speaking against Islam or saying that
Muslims are hiding some secret about their faith (although there are
some difficult points they do not like to discuss much). What the
title of the book is referring to is the false notion that the Western
multi-culturalists like to peddle: that Islam is principally a
religion of peace and that our conflict with them comes from not
treating them as if they were another kind of Congregationalist sect.
Because of the centrality of Muhammad to Islam, Spencer takes us
through what can be known about the life of Muhammad. However, the
Qur'an alone is not enough for that task. The author also uses the
Hadith (traditions about Muhammad), and the Sira (a biography of
Muhammad written down 150 years after his death). Using these
secondary sources helps illuminate what the Qur'an is saying to the
believers through their Prophet.
As Spencer takes us through Muhammad's life and conquests, we learn
the sources and traditions for what the Jihadists do today. Rather
than twisting or hijacking the faith as some claim, there is a reason
that so many within Islam feel proud and agree with the way the
Jihadists act towards non-believers, what is preached against
believers in their mosques, and the constant work to establish Sharia
as a replacement for established law all over the world. This is what
Muslims have done since their beginning and what they feel their
mission is today. To them, all non-Muslim culture is inferior and all
non-believers deserve second-class status at best. Tolerance and
equality with non-believers is not possible according to Muhammad's
teachings, even on his deathbed.
This paragraph of Spencer's sums up the core of the book:
"It is nothing short of staggering that the myth of Islamic tolerance
could have gained such currency in the teeth of Muhammad's open
contempt and hatred for Jews and Christians, incitements of violence
against them, and calls that they be converted or subjugated. While
human nature is everywhere the same and Muslims can, of course, act as
tolerantly as anyone else, the example of Muhammad, the highest model
for human behavior [according to Muslim belief - CSM], constantly
pulls them in a different direction. The fact that Western analysts
ignore all this demonstrates the ease with which people can be
convinced of something they wish to believe, regardless of
overwhelming evidence to the contrary." (pp. 182-183)
The author also provides a chapter showing how the examples from
Muhammad's life are preached and lived today, including jihad,
violence against unbelievers, death penalty for apostates, and the
marriage of young (very young) girls in countries such as Afghanistan,
Pakistan, and Bangladesh. Spencer is quite clear that the marriage of
young girls was not unusual in Muhammad's life and place, but despite
the changes in the modern world it is the power of these traditions
that keeps such practices alive.
This is a respectful book, but does not shy away from difficult
examples or teachings. Spencer does not go out of his way to try and
create a kinder and gentler Muhammad, but he doesn't create a negative
caricature of the man a billion people regard as a great prophet.
Spencer is also clear about the inferior status of Jews, Christians,
and Pagans in the Muslim view of the world. He even shows how Muhammad
"corrected" Christian teaching about Jesus in the Qur'an. Among other
things, the Muslim scripture declares that Jesus was not the Son of
God nor was he crucified.
This is a very interesting and informative book. Yes, it scares the
heck out of the mainstream media, but that only shows the intolerance
of Islam towards anyone who even raises difficult issues about the
faith in even a respectful way. There are thousands of books on
Christianity that are much harsher and are actually virulent and no
one thinks twice about promoting them everywhere. But if you get the
imams railing against you, well, like Spencer, Steve Emerson, and
others, you need to live in "secure undisclosed locations". I don't
know why you even need any more proof than that for the thesis of this
book about the intolerance of Islam towards non-believers.
Recommended.
http://www.amazon.com/Truth-About-Muhammad-Intolerant-Religion/dp/1596980281
jane
Since Peter is Jewish and follow the Old Testament, is norm for to has
girls as young as 3 years old.
An ancient Jewish scripture called the Mishnah decrees that “A girl
three years and a day is betrothed by intercourse,” therefore the law
allows men to marry girls as young as 3 if they have sex with the
girls (Weinberg & Margalit, 2007). The Mishnah is thought to be the
first Rabbinical text and is considered a major part of Jewish law.
The Book of Numbers from The Old Testament of the Christian Bible
quotes Moses after a battle: "Now kill all the boys. And kill every
woman who has slept with a man, but save for yourselves every girl who
has never slept with a man" (“Numbers 31:17-18…”). Then as now it was
common for soldiers to take women and girls as sex slaves, though this
might refer to taking the girls as wives also. There is no minimum age
limit for using the girls so apparently this indicates tolerance of
sex with children.
The Book of Judges says that after the Benjaminite women were killed
during a battle, Israili leaders decided to give the remaining
Benjaminite men new wives by stealing virgins from Jabesh-gilead:
"This is what you are to do," they said. "Kill every male and every
woman who is not a virgin" (“Judges 21:10-24…”). Note that they don’t
say to kill children, so apparently all males (boys and men) were
killed and all girls were taken as wives. In a hellish battle it’s
impossible to know if a woman is a virgin so presumably they just
grabbed every girl and killed women who showed signs of aging.
But there weren’t enough girls for each man, so they went to Shiloh to
abduct more girls: “When the girls of Shiloh come out to join in the
dancing, then rush from the vineyards and each of you seize a
wife” (“Judges 21:10-24…”). Deuteronomy 22:28-29 says that if a man
randomly meets a virgin and decides to rape her she should be forced
to marry him. Therefore, the Bible’s Old Testament approves of raping,
enslaving and marrying girls without specifying a minimum age to
protect children.
And though the Old Testament is a Christian (and Jewish) scripture,
these violations are committed by Jews since Christ hadn’t arrived
yet. I previously proved that underage marriage to girls as young as
three was allowed in the Jewish tradition, so logically the rape and
marriage of virgins described in the Old Testament was committed
against underage girls. My brief research of the New Testament did not
find scripture allowing pedophilia or underage marriage.
If you have completed your bible reading.and understand the laws in
the bible, you will never complaint the age of marriage during the
time of Prophet Muhammad..
On Jul 18, 4:12 pm, r...@somis.org (• R. L. Measures.) wrote:
> In article
> <074b7436-2803-4bdd-be8f-6e2c6b9ed...@e7g2000vbw.googlegroups.com>,arah
>
>
>
>
>
> <arah1...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >Jwshef.
>
> >Let us do some research, who is Peter and what did Jesus said about
> >Peter
>
> >Peter the Liar
>
> >One of the esteemed disciples of Jesus was Peter, amongst Christians
> >he is also called ?saint' Peter and is often times regarded as the
> >highest ranking apostle.
>
> >However when one reads the Gospels one will come out of it with a
> >rather bad image of this supposed saint and great apostle. One will
> >come to find out that Peter is nothing more than a liar, and a
> >coward.
> >...<snip>
>
> ** Quite true but at least Peter did not have coitus with a girl before
> her 9th birthday.
>
> --
> Richard L. Measures. AG6K, 805-386-3734begin_of_the_skype_highlighting 805-386-3734 end_of_the_skype_highlighting,www.somis.org- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
arah
Robert Spencer have not done enough research. He should read the bible
and found the laws in the bible.
Jesus said:
“Do not think that I came to bring peace on Earth; I did not come to
bring peace, but a sword. For I came to set a man against his father,
and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her
mother-in-law; and a man’s enemies will be the members of his
household. He who loves father or mother more than Me is not worthy of
Me; and he who loves son or daughter more than Me is not worthy of Me.
And he who does not take his cross and follow Me is not worthy of Me.
He who has found his life will lose it, and he who has lost his life
for My sake will find it.” (Matthew 10:34-39 NASB)
Jesus said:
Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not
come to destroy, but to fulfil.
For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one
tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and
shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of
heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be
called great in the kingdom of heaven.
Matthew 5:17
What are the laws in the bible
Kill People Who Don't Listen to Priests
Anyone arrogant enough to reject the verdict of the judge or of
the priest who represents the LORD your God must be put to death.
Such evil must be purged from Israel. (Deuteronomy 17:12 NLT)
Kill Witches
You should not let a sorceress live. (Exodus 22:17 NAB)
Kill Homosexuals
"If a man lies with a male as with a women, both of them shall be
put to death for their abominable deed; they have forfeited their
lives." (Leviticus 20:13 NAB)
Kill Fortunetellers
A man or a woman who acts as a medium or fortuneteller shall be
put to death by stoning; they have no one but themselves to blame for
their death. (Leviticus 20:27 NAB)
Death for Hitting Dad
Whoever strikes his father or mother shall be put to death.
(Exodus 21:15 NAB)
Death for Cursing Parents
1) If one curses his father or mother, his lamp will go out at the
coming of darkness. (Proverbs 20:20 NAB)
2) All who curse their father or mother must be put to death.
They are guilty of a capital offense. (Leviticus 20:9 NLT)
Death for Adultery
If a man commits adultery with another man's wife, both the man
and the woman must be put to death. (Leviticus 20:10 NLT)
Death for Fornication
A priest's daughter who loses her honor by committing fornication
and thereby dishonors her father also, shall be burned to death.
(Leviticus 21:9 NAB)
Death to Followers of Other Religions
Whoever sacrifices to any god, except the Lord alone, shall be
doomed. (Exodus 22:19 NAB)
Kill Nonbelievers
They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their
fathers, with all their heart and soul; and everyone who would not
seek the Lord, the God of Israel, was to be put to death, whether
small or great, whether man or woman. (2 Chronicles 15:12-13 NAB)
Kill False Prophets
If a man still prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall
say to him, "You shall not live, because you have spoken a lie in the
name of the Lord." When he prophesies, his parents, father and
mother, shall thrust him through. (Zechariah 13:3 NAB)
Kill the Entire Town if One Person Worships Another God
Suppose you hear in one of the towns the LORD your God is giving
you that some worthless rabble among you have led their fellow
citizens astray by encouraging them to worship foreign gods. In such
cases, you must examine the facts carefully. If you find it is true
and can prove that such a detestable act has occurred among you, you
must attack that town and completely destroy all its inhabitants, as
well as all the livestock. Then you must pile all the plunder in the
middle of the street and burn it. Put the entire town to the torch as
a burnt offering to the LORD your God. That town must remain a ruin
forever; it may never be rebuilt. Keep none of the plunder that has
been set apart for destruction. Then the LORD will turn from his
fierce anger and be merciful to you. He will have compassion on you
and make you a great nation, just as he solemnly promised your
ancestors. "The LORD your God will be merciful only if you obey him
and keep all the commands I am giving you today, doing what is
pleasing to him." (Deuteronomy 13:13-19 NLT)
Kill Women Who Are Not Virgins On Their Wedding Night
But if this charge is true (that she wasn't a virgin on her
wedding night), and evidence of the girls virginity is not found, they
shall bring the girl to the entrance of her fathers house and there
her townsman shall stone her to death, because she committed a crime
against Israel by her unchasteness in her father's house. Thus shall
you purge the evil from your midst. (Deuteronomy 22:20-21 NAB)
Kill Followers of Other Religions.
1) If your own full brother, or your son or daughter, or your
beloved wife, or you intimate friend, entices you secretly to serve
other gods, whom you and your fathers have not known, gods of any
other nations, near at hand or far away, from one end of the earth to
the other: do not yield to him or listen to him, nor look with pity
upon him, to spare or shield him, but kill him. Your hand shall be
the first raised to slay him; the rest of the people shall join in
with you. You shall stone him to death, because he sought to lead you
astray from the Lord, your God, who brought you out of the land of
Egypt, that place of slavery. And all Israel, hearing of this, shall
fear and never do such evil as this in your midst. (Deuteronomy
13:7-12 NAB)
2) Suppose a man or woman among you, in one of your towns that the
LORD your God is giving you, has done evil in the sight of the LORD
your God and has violated the covenant by serving other gods or by
worshiping the sun, the moon, or any of the forces of heaven, which I
have strictly forbidden. When you hear about it, investigate the
matter thoroughly. If it is true that this detestable thing has been
done in Israel, then that man or woman must be taken to the gates of
the town and stoned to death. (Deuteronomy 17:2-5 NLT)
Death for Blasphemy
One day a man who had an Israelite mother and an Egyptian father
got into a fight with one of the Israelite men. During the fight,
this son of an Israelite woman blasphemed the LORD's name. So the man
was brought to Moses for judgment. His mother's name was Shelomith.
She was the daughter of Dibri of the tribe of Dan. They put the man
in custody until the LORD's will in the matter should become clear.
Then the LORD said to Moses, "Take the blasphemer outside the camp,
and tell all those who heard him to lay their hands on his head. Then
let the entire community stone him to death. Say to the people of
Israel: Those who blaspheme God will suffer the consequences of their
guilt and be punished. Anyone who blasphemes the LORD's name must be
stoned to death by the whole community of Israel. Any Israelite or
foreigner among you who blasphemes the LORD's name will surely die.
(Leviticus 24:10-16 NLT)
Do you still think Robert Spencer have done enough research?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SmRqDMUA4P0
On Jul 18, 3:57 pm, jwsheffi...@satx.rr.com wrote:
FACE
<arah...@gmail.com>, wrote
>“And the stars are made subservient by His commands.”
>
>(Surah an-Nahl 16:12)
>
>
>
>One of such stars is the Sun, the volume of which is 1.3 million times
>more than our Earth. It has been bestowed with such a powerful light
>that within seconds it traverses the distance between the Sun and the
>Earth. The Earth is illuminated by solar light and the life on Earth
>is sustained by the nourishment received from this light. “Glory be
>only to Allah the Mighty Creator.”
>
Just using this as an example. You really want to imply that your koran
actually says the above. What a laugh that is......
Ten English and the arabic transliterations of 16.12:
016:012
*
URL
Pickthall And He hath constrained the night and the day and the sun
and the moon to be of service unto you, and the stars are made subservient
by His command. Lo! herein indeed are portents for people who have sense.
Yusuf Ali He has made subject to you the Night and the Day; the sun
and the moon; and the stars are in subjection by His Command: verily in
this are Signs for men who are wise.
Hilali-Khan And He has subjected to you the night and the day, the sun
and the moon; and the stars are subjected by His Command. Surely, in this
are proofs for people who understand.
Shakir And He has made subservient for you the night and the day and the
sun and the moon, and the stars are made subservient by His commandment;
most surely there are signs in this for a people who ponder;
Sher Ali And HE pressed into service for you the night and the day
and the sun and the moon; and the stars too have been pressed into service
by HIS command. Surely, in that are Signs for a people who use their
understanding.
Khalifa And He commits, in your service, the night and the day, as well as
the sun and the moon. Also, the stars are committed by His command. These
are (sufficient) proofs for people who understand.
Arberry And He subjected to you the night and day, and the sun and moon;
and the stars are subjected by His command. Surely in that are signs for a
people who understand.
Palmer And He subjected to you the night and the day, and the sun, and
the moon, and the stars are subjected to His bidding. Verily, in that are
signs to a people who have sense.
Rodwell And He hath subjected to you the night and the day; the sun and
the moon and the stars too are subjected to you by his behest; verily, in
this are signs for those who understand:
Sale And he hath subjected the night and the day to your service; and
the sun, and the moon, and the stars, which are compelled to serve by his
command. Verily herein are signs unto people of understanding.
Transliterated Arabic Wasakhkhara lakumu allayla waalnnahara
waalshshamsa waalqamara waalnnujoomu musakhkharatun bi-amrihi inna fee
thalika laayatin liqawmin yaAAqiloona
LOL!!!!!!!!!!!
FACE
FACE
<arah...@gmail.com>, wrote
>The Greatest Sin: Shirk (Polytheism)
>
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>Shirk (Polytheism: To associate anyone or anything with Almighty
>Creator
>
>The Greatest Sins is to associate anyone or anything with Almighty
>Creator.
>
>The following verse of the Holy Qur’an asserts:
>
>
>
>“Surely Allah does not forgive that anything should be associated with
>him, and forgives what is besides that to whomsoever He pleases, and
>whoever associates anything with Allah, he devises indeed a great
>sin.”
Another good laugh (no doubt there are many more, but you bore me.)
"Does Allah forgive shirk?
Allah does NOT forgive shirk:
Allah forgiveth not that partners should be set up with Him; but He
forgiveth anything else, to whom He pleaseth; to set up partners with
Allah is to devise a sin most heinous indeed. -- Sura 4:48
Allah forgiveth not (the sin of) joining other gods with Him; but He
forgiveth whom He pleaseth other sins than this: one who joins other gods
with Allah, Hath strayed far, far away (from the right). -- Sura 4:116
Allah forgives shirk (even in the same sura):
... Yet they [the Israelites] worshipped the calf even after Clear
Signs had come to them; even so We forgave them; and gave Moses manifest
proofs of authority. -- Sura 4:153
See also Sura 2:51-52, describing the same specific event. [This holds not
only for the Israelites, Sura 6:76-78 asserts that even Abraham took the
sun, the moon, and the stars as idols. This is sheer polytheism; yet
Muslims respect Abraham as he is portrayed in the Qur'an as a great
prophet, and nevertheless they believe that prophets are sinless.]
I suppose a Muslim could say that God abrogated his previous approach of
granting forgiveness of idolatry but now does no longer forgive it. But is
that so? In 6:88, after speaking of Abraham (verse 83), Isaac and Jacob
(84), Moses, Job, Jesus, Joseph, Noah, David, Solomon, etc., Allah says,
"Had they served other gods besides Him, their labours would have been
vain indeed."
It seems obvious that since Abraham and Isaac are mentioned also (they
preceeded Moses and the Hebrew slaves), and who were under the same
command of "don't serve idols or your out of luck", that abrogation could
not be possible in this case, since otherwise we would have to assume
oscillating abrogations (no forgiveness, forgiveness, no forgiveness)
suggesting that God cannot make up his mind. This would be utterly
unworthy of God, who is eternally the same and as the All-wise does not
need to change his laws because he is surprised by new developments.
On the other hand, we can even find a general statement about the
forgiveness of shirk, since Sura 25:68-71 speaks about people who worship
gods other than God and when they repent, believe, and work righteousness
then God not only forgives them but He even substitutes their sins
(sayyi'aat) with righteouss credit (hasannat).
Moreover, nearly all the Meccans of Muhammad's time had committed shirk.
They were basically all worshipping various idols. Nevertheless Muhammad
calls them to repentance and to faith in Islam. Some believed in Muhammad
early on, most of them converted only later after Muhammad came with a
large army. Most Muslims believe that Allah forgave these Muslims (the
companions of Muhammad!) their sins, including their shirk. Why then are
there several verses in the Qur'an that claim that the sin of shirk will
never be forgiven?"
LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!
FACE
FACE
jwshe...@satx.rr.com, wrote
>Ex 3:14 - And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM:
> and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of
>Israel,
> I AM hath sent me unto you.
>
>Joh 8:58 - Jesus said unto them,
> Verily, verily, I say unto you,
> Before Abraham was, I am.
>
>
> Joh 20:28 -And Thomas answered and said unto him,
> My Lord and my God.
>
I am unsure if I have already suggested this, but if not, have a look at
the answer of Jesus to Martha and the circumstances of John 11:25.
(I would be interested in what you think)
>
>Athanasian Creed
>
>
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>1. Whosoever will be saved, before all things it is necessary that he
>hold the catholic faith;
>
>
>2. Which faith except every one do keep whole and undefiled, without
>doubt he shall perish everlastingly.
>
>
>3. And the catholic faith is this: That we worship one God in
>Trinity,
>and Trinity in Unity;
>
>
>4. Neither confounding the persons nor dividing the substance.
>
>
>5. For there is one person of the Father, another of the Son, and
>another of the Holy Spirit.
>
>
>6. But the Godhead of the Father, of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit
>is all one, the glory equal, the majesty coeternal.
>
>
>7. Such as the Father is, such is the Son, and such is the Holy
>Spirit.
>
>
>8. The Father uncreated, the Son uncreated, and the Holy Spirit
>uncreated.
>
>
>9. The Father incomprehensible, the Son incomprehensible, and the
>Holy
>Spirit incomprehensible.
>
>
>10. The Father eternal, the Son eternal, and the Holy Spirit eternal.
>
>
>11. And yet they are not three eternals but one eternal.
>
>
>12. As also there are not three uncreated nor three incomprehensible,
>but one uncreated and one incomprehensible.
>
>
>13. So likewise the Father is almighty, the Son almighty, and the
>Holy
>Spirit almighty.
>
>
>14. And yet they are not three almighties, but one almighty.
>
>
>15. So the Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Spirit is God;
>
>
>16. And yet they are not three Gods, but one God.
>
>
>17. So likewise the Father is Lord, the Son Lord, and the Holy Spirit
>Lord;
>
>
>18. And yet they are not three Lords but one Lord.
>
>
>19. For like as we are compelled by the Christian verity to
>acknowledge every Person by himself to be God and Lord;
>
>
>20. So are we forbidden by the catholic religion to say; There are
>three Gods or three Lords.
>
>
>21. The Father is made of none, neither created nor begotten.
>
>
>22. The Son is of the Father alone; not made nor created, but
>begotten.
>
>
>23. The Holy Spirit is of the Father and of the Son; neither made,
>nor
>created, nor begotten, but proceeding.
>
>
>24. So there is one Father, not three Fathers; one Son, not three
>Sons; one Holy Spirit, not three Holy Spirits.
>
>
>25. And in this Trinity none is afore or after another; none is
>greater or less than another.
>
>
>26. But the whole three persons are coeternal, and coequal.
>
>
>27. So that in all things, as aforesaid, the Unity in Trinity and the
>Trinity in Unity is to be worshipped.
>
>
>28. He therefore that will be saved must thus think of the Trinity.
>
>
>29. Furthermore it is necessary to everlasting salvation that he also
>believe rightly the incarnation of our Lord Jesus Christ.
>
>
>30. For the right faith is that we believe and confess that our Lord
>Jesus Christ, the Son of God, is God and man.
>
>
>31. God of the substance of the Father, begotten before the worlds;
>and man of substance of His mother, born in the world.
>
>
>32. Perfect God and perfect man, of a reasonable soul and human flesh
>subsisting.
>
>
>33. Equal to the Father as touching His Godhead, and inferior to the
>Father as touching His manhood.
>
>
>34. Who, although He is God and man, yet He is not two, but one
>Christ.
>
>
>35. One, not by conversion of the Godhead into flesh, but by taking
>of
>that manhood into God.
>
>
>36. One altogether, not by confusion of substance, but by unity of
>person.
>
>
>37. For as the reasonable soul and flesh is one man, so God and man
>is
>one Christ;
>
>
>38. Who suffered for our salvation, descended into hell, rose again
>the third day from the dead;
>
>
>39. He ascended into heaven, He sits on the right hand of the Father,
>God, Almighty;
>
>
>40. From thence He shall come to judge the quick and the dead.
>
>
>41. At whose coming all men shall rise again with their bodies;
>
>
>42. and shall give account of their own works.
>
>
>43. And they that have done good shall go into life everlasting and
>they that have done evil into everlasting fire.
>
>
>44. This is the catholic faith, which except a man believe faithfully
>he cannot be saved.
>
>
> http://www.ccel.org/creeds/athanasian.creed.html
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
jwshe...@satx.rr.com
> On Sun, 10 Jul 2011 12:47:55 -0700 (PDT), in alt.religion.islam,
>
> >Ex 3:14 - And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM:
> > and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of
> >Israel,
> > I AM hath sent me unto you.
>
> >Joh 8:58 - Jesus said unto them,
> > Verily, verily, I say unto you,
> > Before Abraham was, I am.
>
> > Joh 20:28 -And Thomas answered and said unto him,
> > My Lord and my God.
>
> I am unsure if I have already suggested this, but if not, have a look at
> the answer of Jesus to Martha and the circumstances of John 11:25.
> (I would be interested in what you think)
>
John 11
25Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection,
and the life: he that believeth in me,
though he were dead, yet shall he live:
Again, we see the I Am which is what God
identified Himself to Moses.
Jim
Bob Luginbill on John 8:58
As far as "Eyeh Asher Eyeh" is concerned, this is simply a
transliteration of the Hebrew text of Ex.3:14 ("I will be/can be/may
be/keep on being what[ever] I will be/can be/may be/keep on being";
see Bible Basics part 1: Theology, note #1 and note #6). Inasmuch as
this Hebrew phrase is a summing up of the idea of "existing" contained
in the Name of God, it really seems to me a "cop out" to transliterate
it (especially if the intent is be "mysterious"). Why not
transliterate the whole Bible? Then nothing could be understood (the
putative purpose of such exercises when cults and the like are
involved). In John 8:58, Jesus does apply the meaning of this Name to
Himself when He says, "Before Abraham came into existence, I am"),
thus clearly identifying Himself as God. The Greek He uses is not an
untranslatable phrase anymore than the Hebrew phrase He quotes is, so
that it would be equally obfuscatory to render this "I am" of our Lord
as ego eimi (the Greek for "I am"). The only reason I can think that
someone would dogmatically demand such a thing is to call into
question the divinity of Christ, a point this passage must otherwise
make very lucidly.
It is true that, in the Septuagint version (the Greek translation of
the Old Testament), the translation of Ex.3:14 is ego eimi ho on ("I
am the One who exists"). But it is important to note that the
Septuagint is actually attempting to translate this difficult Hebrew
phrase, and it is of no small significance that the translator felt
the need to use two different forms of the verb "to be" to do so.
Neither of these forms is future, by the way, nor is either form
potential (we might have expected an optative or a subjunctive). The
point is that even in the third century B.C., the Hebrew "eyeh 'asher
'eyeh" really was difficult to do justice to. Given that immediately
after this, God tells Moses to tell the Israelites that "'eyeh" has
sent him (using only one half of the repeated verbal coupling), Jesus
statement "I am" seems as close as one might come to quoting this
passage in Greek (or any other language). So there is really no doubt
whatsoever that Jesus is directly and deliberately referring to Exodus
3:14 with these words, regardless of the exact phraseology used by the
LXX. Similarly, in Rev.1:8, the Father describes Himself as "ho on,
kai ho en, kai ho erchomenos" - "the One who is, and who was, and who
is coming". Both renderings have, to my mind, one and the same central
objective: to make clear that God is the author of all existence, of
all creation, and that He is supreme within that creation, being both
the definition and the ruler of the very notion of being and
existence. The use of the divine "being" Name in Exodus chapter three
(by our Lord Jesus in Christophany acting for the Father) served to
put the Israelites on notice that this God is in no way comparable to
the gods with which they were familiar (so neither is His Name
comparable). In John 8:58 and elsewhere, Jesus makes it clear that He
is that very same One, and anyone familiar with the meaning and the
translations of that famous Hebrew passage should have recognized
this.
As near as I can figure from the quote you include in your e-mail,
this person is trying to get some mileage out of the fact that the LXX
(or at least the version which has survived - there were of course
many redactions and a number of early versions which were subsumed
into what we now call the Septuagint) has ho on in this second
instance ("Tell them the existing One sent you ...). After all, it
starts out with ego eimi, the very words of Jesus in John 8:58. In any
case, the LXX is not inspired. It is, in my opinion, not even a
particularly valuable witness to the Hebrew text. Along with many
others, I wish that the Septuagint were a more useful resource, but in
fact it is only marginally more helpful than the Latin Vulgate. Given
that Jesus' words 1) do match the beginning of the LXX quote, and 2)
are an unusual thing to say in Greek or any other language, any fair
interpretation of the text of John 8:58 must conclude that our Lord is
making a very plain claim of divinity here, one that directly and
deliberately quotes from Exodus 3:14 by laying claim to the divine
Name which encapsulates the idea of being in Him who is the very
source of "being".
http://ichthys.com/mail-I%20am.htm
>
>
>
>
> >Athanasian Creed
>
> >--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > http://www.ccel.org/creeds/athanasian.creed.html- Hide quoted text -
Dr. R. Knapp
> Wow, wow, you get mad and very upset just because I wrongly type your
> name.
NO WOW, as you and I have been posting for a long time now, and only
this Patrick guy that things is cute to put a "o" at the end of a name
then to post the real name. I have never insulted you by calling yo a
false name that I know of. So the wow is why you can not be civil and
address a person by their name, then if you like I can call you with
your permission as araho and leave it up to your mom or dad tell you
your real name. I find that just one letter in a name can be another
person, a do not get MAD that is only applied to dogs. Now if we
accept the Qur'an which I try to honor as using your spelling instead
of the Koran spelling, a "dog" is not a good person. We may disagree
about holy books and how to spell God or Allah etc. but you did not
make a typing error you had to do it as a insult.
>
> How about if I said that you have a out of wedlock child in Philippine?
I suppose I could say you do not know who your real father is as your
mom had sex with many people? How if I said that about you? I would
not as I think that would be a lie. I did have two children born in
the Philippines, I never got married in the Philippines it was in the
USA. I do not see your point, as such has nothing to do with a
personal name. You being a Muslim may have many mothers which our
laws would see as out of web-lock. Only One wife is accepted as the
legal wife.
>
> The Greatest Sin: Shirk (Polytheism)
I never knew that person and to you Sin maybe what others do daily. I
could say the greatest Sin is being a follower of the Qur'an or
calling God by the name of Allah. Then I can agree Polytheism is sin
and pagan, so what? Since Polytheism is Belief in multiple Gods which
according to history was the name that Mohammad got from a pagan group
whose god was named "Allah". So are you in that great sin yourself. I
do not believe in Polytheism nor does my Jewish friend and followers
of God.
> Shirk (Polytheism: To associate anyone or anything with Almighty
> Creator
>
> The Greatest Sins is to associate anyone or anything with Almighty
> Creator.
I do not believe you or that Skirk since Muslims will say God is Great
and add to it that Mohammad is His prophet or words like that, it is
always associated with the god you say is the "Almighty Creator" in
your Qur'an.
>
> The following verse of the Holy Qur’an asserts:
>
> “Surely Allah does not forgive that anything should be associated with
> him, and forgives what is besides that to whomsoever He pleases, and
> whoever associates anything with Allah, he devises indeed a great
> sin.”
>
> (Surah an-Nisā’ 4:48)
Thanks for showing us, that you and others always associate Mohammad
with Allah, so are in SIN, by the Qur;an and now we have the verse to
prove it. There is no more widely recognized utterance of the Islamic
faith than the declaration known as the shahadah: “There is no god but
Allah, and Muhammad is the prophet of Allah.” Islam is about Allah and
his prophet, Muhammad. The Qur’an teaches that Muhammad was an
ordinary man (43:31). Yet, according to Muslims, Allah sovereignly
chose Muhammad to receive a series of revelations through the
intermediary presence of the angel Gabriel. While Muhammad was praying
and fasting in the hills outside of Mecca in A.D. 610, Gabriel
appeared to him. Many Muslims believe the first revelation to Muhammad
was the command to “Recite in the Name of Thy Lord” (96:1). These
revelations continued until Muhammad’s death in A.D. 632 (17:82).
According to Islamic traditions, approximately 20 years after
Muhammad’s death his “recitations” were written down and codified into
a collection of 114 chapters (called surahs) known as the Qur’an. The
word “Qur’an” is Arabic for “recitation.” The Qur’an, containing 6,346
verses (known as aya), is approximately the same size as the NT. The
first chapter of the Qur’an is known as “The Opening” and is widely
regarded as the greatest summary of the Islamic message. The remaining
chapters are arranged by length from the longest to the shortest.
Crossway Bibles, The ESV Study Bible (Wheaton, IL: Crossway Bibles,
2008). 2628-29.
There is no more widely recognized utterance of the Islamic faith than
the declaration known as the shahadah: “There is no god but Allah, and
Muhammad is the prophet of Allah.” Islam is about Allah and his
prophet, Muhammad. The Qur’an teaches that Muhammad was an ordinary
man (43:31). Yet, according to Muslims, Allah sovereignly chose
Muhammad to receive a series of revelations through the intermediary
presence of the angel Gabriel. While Muhammad was praying and fasting
in the hills outside of Mecca in A.D. 610, Gabriel appeared to him.
Many Muslims believe the first revelation to Muhammad was the command
to “Recite in the Name of Thy Lord” (96:1). These revelations
continued until Muhammad’s death in A.D. 632 (17:82). According to
Islamic traditions, approximately 20 years after Muhammad’s death his
“recitations” were written down and codified into a collection of 114
chapters (called surahs) known as the Qur’an. The word “Qur’an” is
Arabic for “recitation.” The Qur’an, containing 6,346 verses (known as
aya), is approximately the same size as the NT. The first chapter of
the Qur’an is known as “The Opening” and is widely regarded as the
greatest summary of the Islamic message. The remaining chapters are
arranged by length from the longest to the shortest.
Crossway Bibles, The ESV Study Bible (Wheaton, IL: Crossway Bibles,
2008). 2628-29.
>
> It means that whoever dies as a polytheist, there is no chance of his
> salvation. Although Almighty Creator
> may forgive any of those who have committed any other sin. Allah
> (S.w.T.) says:
What that means you have no forgiveness of your sins as the Holy Jesus
Christ has said, God bless His name and honor it said "John 14:6-17
6 Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one
comes to the Father except through me. 7 If you really knew me, you
would know my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have
seen him."
8 Philip said, "Lord, show us the Father and that will be enough for
us."
9 Jesus answered: "Don't you know me, Philip, even after I have been
among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the
Father. How can you say, 'Show us the Father'? 10 Don't you believe
that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me? The words I say
to you are not just my own. Rather, it is the Father, living in me,
who is doing his work. 11 Believe me when I say that I am in the
Father and the Father is in me; or at least believe on the evidence of
the miracles themselves. 12 I tell you the truth, anyone who has faith
in me will do what I have been doing. He will do even greater things
than these, because I am going to the Father. 13 And I will do
whatever you ask in my name, so that the Son may bring glory to the
Father. 14 You may ask me for anything in my name, and I will do it.
15 "If you love me, you will obey what I command. 16 And I will ask
the Father, and he will give you another Counselor to be with you
forever— 17 the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because
it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with
you and will be in you. NIV
So according to what Jesus which you also call a prophet said, you
will not enter into heaven with this Mohammad guy. Only by Jesus can
one know or see the Creator God.
>
> “Surely whoever associates (others) with Allah, then Allah has
> forbidden to him the garden, and his abode is the fire; and there
> shall be no helpers for the unjust.”
>
> (Surah al-Mā’ida 5:72)
So you know how to quote stuff, the above has nothing to do with
anything here. Anyone can dump stuff, just to take up space.
>
> Also the Holy Qur’an states:
>
> “Do not associate aught with Almighty Creator ; most surely polytheism
> is a grievous inequity.”
>
> (Surah Luqmān 31:13).
Why do you think anyone cares about polytheism? I sure do not, and
just because some people are confused it does not matter. I wonder if
we could now say if anyone calls God by the name "Allah" they are
calling on the pagan god that was part of the pagan worship that
Mohammad knew of in the day he lived.
> “And whoever associates anything with Almighty Creator , he devises
> indeed a great sin.”
>
> (Surah an-Nisā’ 4:48)
>
> Every Muslim knows fully well that Shirk is a Greatest Sin. So it does
> not seem necessary to quote the Qur’anic ayats and the traditions of
> Ma’sūmīn (a.s.) in this regard. However, since it is important to
> understand the true meaning of Shirk we shall quote the relevant
> statements in order that people may keep aloof from this infamy. The
> Holy Qur’an says,
>
> “And worship Almighty Creator and do not associate anything with
> Him.”
>
> (Surah an-Nisā’ 4:36)
>
> Qarūn Became a Polythiest
>
FACE
jwshe...@satx.rr.com, wrote
> John 11
> 25Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection,
> and the life: he that believeth in me,
> though he were dead, yet shall he live:
>
> Again, we see the I Am which is what God
> identified Himself to Moses.
>
I believe we have another point of agreement. :-)
You may enjoy this:
Sam Shamoun vs. Farhan Qureshi: "Is the Trinity in the Old Testament?"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fv5fI2asNqg
Shamoun makes some great points. I particularly liked his "pillar of
fire' as the Holy Spirit point.
(Farhan Qureshi is no longer muslim, he fancied himself a quranist but in
the end could not bear the inconsistencies and contradictions in the
koran. Last i heard he was of no religion. I understand his 'official'
renunciation of islam is on the web.)
FACE
> Jim
� R. L. Measures.
<49a10cf6-e92c-4226...@hd10g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>,
jwshe...@satx.rr.com wrote:
� The tipoff that the Qur'an is man-made is it's intolerance of anyone
who questions it.
--
Richard L. Measures. AG6K, 805-386-3734, www.somis.org
jwshe...@satx.rr.com
________________________________________
by Wesley P. Walters
As different as para-Christian groups or cults are from each other,
most have one thing in common: they hate the biblical teaching of the
Trinity. They want their God to be simplistic, uncomplicated, and less
complex than the world He created. They want a God reduced to terms
they can get their finite minds around.
Modern advances in science have shown that the created world is an
extremely complex mechanism. Those who work in nuclear physics or
molecular biology are continually discovering the complexity of the
world God has created.
In fact, some complex, seemingly contradictory data has yet to be
fitted into a rational system that explains the relationships. A
simple thing like "light" is known to move like "waves" yet strike
like "particles." Atomic physicists are still struggling to put
together a theory that can fully explain this apparent contradiction.
Those who work in the complex mathematical equations of quantum
mechanics are told by their instructors that "If you think that you
really understand quantum mechanics and how it applies to reality,
that proves you do not understand it." One of the basic theorems is
that if the speed of a particle is known, then its location can not be
known, and the more accurately you know its location, the less
accurately you know its speed. This does not seem very logical to the
average person, but it works very well in atomic physics, in which
scientists get very close to the essence of matter.
Thus, while scientists are continually learning more about how complex
and even apparently contradictory the world of created reality is,
cults that reject the complexity of the God who made this reality are
proliferating. They, along with Moslems and modern Jews, taunt
Christians, saying: "How can there be just one God, and yet the Father
be God, the Son be God and the Holy Spirit be God? Is He the Son of
Himself and the Father of both?"
Even though Christ Himself taught that the name [singular] of God in
which we baptize is Father, Son and Holy Spirit (Matthew 28:19), all
cults falsely assert that the doctrine of the Trinity is a teaching
that grew out of fourth century paganism. So unified are the cults in
this assertion that they appear to be using the same erroneous Church
history book and parroting one another.
The truth is that by the time of Christ, the first century A.D., the
Jews themselves, on the basis of the Old Testament, were coming to an
understanding of the complexity of Yahweh.
The Teachings of The Targums
When the Jews returned from Babylonian captivity 450 years before the
birth of Jesus, they had adopted Aramaic as their native language.
Although it is a dialect of ancient Hebrew, Aramaic is about as
different from it as modern Italian is from its classical Latin
ancestor. Consequently, during the first and early second centuries
A.D., Aramaic translations of the Hebrew Old Testament were made.
These translations, called Targums, were The Living Bibles of their
day, an interpretive paraphrase of Scripture. They help us see how
these first-century Jews understood their Old Testament.
One of the striking things these Targums show is that first century
Jews had come to understand the phrase "the Word of God" as referring
to a divine entity within God Himself, yet distinguishable at times
from God. J.W. Etheridge, in the introduction to his translations of
the Targums of Onkelos and Jonathan, has given us a number of examples
of this Jewish understanding of the term, "the Word" (Aramaic:
Memra).
In Genesis 18:1, where the Hebrew Bible says Yahweh (Jehovah) appeared
to Abraham, the Targum says, "The Word of the Lord appeared to
Abraham." Further on, where the Hebrew reports "Yahweh rained down
upon Sodom and upon Gomorrah brimstone and fire from Yahweh out of
heaven," the Targum states that "the Word of the Lord sent down upon
them sulphur and fire from the presence of the Lord out of
heaven." (Genesis 19:24)
In Genesis 16, when Hagar sees "the Angel of the Lord," the Targum
says she saw "the Word of the Lord." After seeing this "Word" (Memra)
she says, "Here has been revealed the glory of the Shekineh of the
Lord." Then, according to the Jerusalem Targum, "Hagar returned thanks
and prayed in the name of the Word of the Lord, who had appeared to
her." Thus the Word not only is regard- ed as the presence of deity,
but is in some manner personally distinguishable from the Lord.
In Genesis 28:20 the Targum of Onkelos paraphrases Jacob's vow, "If
God will be with me... then Yahweh will be my God" with the words, "If
the Word of the Lord will be my help... the Word of the Lord shall be
my God." Again, the Angel of Yahweh who spoke to Moses at the burning
bush (Exodus 3:14) is designated by the Jerusalem Targum as "the Word
of the Lord."
The distinct personality of this Divine Word is seen pointedly in
Jonathan's Targum of Isaiah 63:7-10. There, where the Hebrew text
speaks of Yahweh being their Savior, the Targum reads, "the Word
(Memra) was their Redeemer." (vs. 8) When the Israelites continued to
disobey, then "His Word (Memra) became their enemy, and fought against
them" -- an action ascribed to Yahweh in the Hebrew text. Again in
Isaiah 45:22 the Targum of Jonathan exhorts, "Look unto My Word and be
saved."
While this personalizing of the Word was being expressed in Palestine
in the Targums of Jesus' day, Philo, an Egyptian Jew and contemporary
of Jesus, was expressing similar thoughts in even more distinct words.
In his essay "On the Creation," Philo states that man was not made in
the image of some creature, but in the image of God's own uncreated
Word. He wrote: "for the Creator, we know, employed for its making no
pattern taken from among created things, but solely, as I have said,
His own Word."
Philo continues: "Man was made a likeness and imitation of the Word,
when the Divine Breath was breathed into his face. ("On the Creation,"
XLVIII: 139, Loeb Edition I, pp. 110-111)
In his work on Noah, Philo again expresses the teaching that man is
made by "the First Cause" (that is, God) in the image of "the Eternal
Word:" "Our great Moses likened the fashion of the rea- sonable soul
to no created thing, but averred it to be a genuine coinage of that
dread Spirit, the Divine and Invisible One, signed and impressed by
the seal of God, the stamp of which is the Eternal Word."
He continues: "...man has been made after the Image of God (Genesis
1:27), not however after the image of anything created... man's soul
having been made after the image of the Archetype, the Word of the
First Cause." ("Noah's Work as a Planter," I:18-20, Loeb III, pp.
222-223)
Thus, the eternal Word is in some sense distinguishable from God, and
yet at the same time is, like God, uncreated, rational and the bearer
of the divine image. This comes very close to the teaching of the New
Testament that the Word was distinguishable from God, and yet was God.
As John 1:1 expresses it, "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word
was with God, and the Word was God." It also appears similar to Paul's
teaching that the Son is "the image of the invisible God" (Colossians
1:15); and the writer of Hebrews statement that the Son "is the exact
representation of His being." (Hebrews 1:3)
Philo, however, goes further. He says that God is the king and
shepherd of all creation, but rules and controls it through his
eternally existing Word, whom Philo calls God's "First-born Son."
His "hallowed flock" of created things God directs by his divine laws,
setting over it His true Word and first-born son, who shall take upon
Him its government like some viceroy of a great king. ("On Husbandry,"
I:51, Loeb III, pp. 134-135)
Philo has God expressing Himself in this manner: "I alone... sustained
the Universe to rest firm and sure upon the Mighty Word, who is My
viceroy." ("On Dreams," I:241, Loeb V, pp. 424- 425)
Therefore this eternal Word, God's first-born Son, is the upholder of
the whole creation, "the everlasting Word of the eternal God is the
very sure and staunch prop of the Whole. He it is, who extending
Himself from the midst to its utmost bounds... keeps up through all
its length Nature's unvanquished course, combining and compacting all
its parts. For the Father who begat Him constituted His Word such a
Bond of the Universe as nothing can break." ("Noah's Work as a
Planter," I:8-9, Loeb III, pp. 216-217)
This reflects the same thought that Paul expressed about the Son as
being the one "in whom all things hold together." (Colossians 1:17) It
also reminds also reminds us of Hebrews 1:3, which depicts the Son as
"sustaining all things by his powerful Word."
Philo continues his discussion of the Word by maintaining that to
those incapable of seeing the supreme cause, God Himself, He appears
to them in the form of His Angel, the Word: "For just as those who are
unable to see the sun itself, see the gleam of the parahelion and take
it for the sun, and take the halo round the moon for that luminary
itself, so some regard the image of God, His Angel, the Word, as His
very self." ("On Dreams," I:239, Loeb V, pp. 422-423) This sounds very
similar to the teaching tha t the Son is "the radiance (or outshining)
of God's glory" (Hebrews 1:3), the only part of God's nature that
people are allowed to see. This is true because "no one has ever seen
God," but "the only begotten God... He has made Him known." (John
1:18) Thus, Jesus, the Son, can say, "Anyone who has seen me has seen
the Father." (John 14:9)
Philo further explained that God, being light, is "the archetype of
every other light." As such He is "prior to and high above every
archetype." Thus He holds the position of "a model of a model," that
is, He is the model for His Word, which Word becomes the model for
creation. The Word, therefore, contains all the qualities of God. As
Philo expressed it, "the model or pattern was the Word which contained
all His fullness -- light, in fact." ("On Dreams," I:75, Loeb V, pp.
336-337) Paul expressed a similar thought when he wrote that in the
Son all God's fullness dwells. (Colossians 1:19; 2:9)
To Philo, therefore, the Word of God is the eternal, uncreated Word
containing all the fullness of God and bearing His image. That divine
image which the Word bears is the image in which man was created. The
Word is further the sustainer, upholder and ruler of the world,
carrying on the governing of all things, as God's viceroy, and
containing all God's fullness.
While the Word is not a created thing and carries on all the functions
of God, Philo is clear that there are not two gods -- although he does
not attempt to explain how this can be. Philo's teaching is,
therefore, very close to the biblical doctrine of the Trinity. Philo
reached his conclusions without the aid of the New Testament and
certainly without deriving his ideas from pagan notions of deity. The
Old Testament teaching that the Angel of Yahweh is really the presence
of Yahweh Himself seems to have strongly influenced Philo's ideas.
To relegate the doctrine of the Trinity, therefore, to a fourth-
century adaptation of paganism is to ignore the conclusions that
several Jewish theologians and teachers had reached four centuries
earlier, from God's revelations given to Israel before the time of the
coming of Christ. At the very time that the Word was becoming flesh
(John 1:1, 14), Jewish writers were already beginning to see that
God's Word could in some way be distinguished from God the Father
Himself, yet have all the fullness of God contained in Him.
________________________________________
http://prophecyarchive.com/ray/barr-family.com/godsword/trinity.htm
Philo writes:
...it is reasonable for one to be three and for three to be one, for
they were one by a higher principle... ...he makes the appearance of a
trinity [triad]... He cannot be seen in his oneness without something
[else], the chief Powers that that exist immediately with him... the
Creative, which is called "God" and the Kingly, which is called
"Lord"... [Abraham] begins to see the sovereign, holy, and divine
vision in such a way that single appearance appears as a trinity
[triad], and the trinity [triad] as a unity.
(Philo; Questions on Genesis, IV, 2)
http://www.iloveulove.com/spirituality/kabbalah/kabbachurch.htm
bishop
> "Dr. R. Knapp" <rwkn...@gmail.com> wrote
What are your normal lies for today Patrick?. Before tying to steal
more personal ID information. So may all readers, beware this person
wants facts about people that he has no need or unless he wants to use
your ID for some ungodly reason.
bishop
> "Dr. R. Knapp" <rwkn...@gmail.com> wrote
What is your his normal pompous or pretentious talk or writing?
Thanks for your inviting me to your roman-catholic newsgroup as that
is the only reason I am replying to you Patrick.
bishop
> "Dr. R. Knapp" <rwkn...@gmail.com> wrote
> his normal uneducated drivel.
May all readers take notice, how Patrick tries to insult a person, so
they will tell him about their education, name and address, what
school, or church you attend or what ever he can get out of your
personal information as a ID Thief does.
>
> + We all know why you claim to
> be a doctor. It is the same reason that you used to label
> yourself "Bishop Knapp." You are insecure. You don't have
> any real education.
In Christ Jesus,
Bishop R. Knapp
www.pioneers-for-jesus.org
bishop
> "Dr. R. Knapp" <rwkn...@gmail.com> wrote .
> On Jul 14, 4:25 pm, "Patrick" <barker...@erinot.com> wrote:
>
> > "Dr. R. Knapp" <rwkn...@gmail.com> wrote
>
> Thank you Patrick for posting.
>
> + Oh, you are very welcome.
> -----------
>
> Then I am a Bishop and so again thank
> you for pointing that out. Then it is clear your education is
> something one would not want. As it is plain to see, you just want to
> steal Identifications and are so insecure. Now that is your problem,
> when people can and do show the errors you promote in these newsgroups
>
> + We all know why you claim to
No one knows why others claim to be something, I suppose we could say
"We all know why you claim to" want peoples personal information,
simple that is what a ID thief does. Thank you again for this
information to post in the Catholic newsgroups, as all good Catholics
can see just how rotten you spirit is.
bishop
> Jwshef.
>
> Let us do some research, who is Peter and what did Jesus said about
> Peter
>
> Peter the Liar
Be better to tell us about Mohammad a liar and child molester of a 9
year old child wife.
Oh yes Peter did lie, and the Bible shows that Jesus forgave hm, and
made Peter a leader of the Church. Then as Peter found forgiveness
and that only Jesus was the saviour that all the world was waiting to
come, die and raise from the dead. Which Islam denies and so can not
be the truth or of God.
• R. L. Measures.
<4a4a0b40-cb18-43cc...@h14g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>,
jwshe...@satx.rr.com wrote:
>HOW ANCIENT IS THE TRINITY DOCTRINE?
>________________________________________
>
• Verily I say unto you: the more logorrheic the post, the more likely it
has an agenda.
--
� R. L. Measures.
<7ef29331-b547-4eb8...@u26g2000vby.googlegroups.com>,
bishop <rwkna...@yahoo.com> wrote:
congrats P.B.
There's a tender nerve behind the bull's-eye
FACE
(• R. L. Measures.), wrote
>In article
><4a4a0b40-cb18-43cc...@h14g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>,
>jwshe...@satx.rr.com wrote:
>
>>HOW ANCIENT IS THE TRINITY DOCTRINE?
>>________________________________________
>>
>
>• Verily I say unto you: the more logorrheic the post, the more likely it
>has an agenda.
Not nice to have me look up words like logorrheic.
I think that you are just being phatic.
FACE
• R. L. Measures.
dara...@yahoo.com wrote:
hardly. Mo' length is not always mo' bettah.
arah
> Why do you think anyone cares about polytheism? I sure do not, and
> just because some people are confused it does not matter. I wonder if
> we could now say if anyone calls God by the name "Allah" they are
> calling on the pagan god that was part of the pagan worship that
> Mohammad knew of in the day he lived.
The Faith of Islam
REPRESENTATIVE of the attitude of Christendom toward Islam, till
recent years at least, is Alexander Ross's postscript to the
Anglicized version, published in 1649, of Sieur Du Ryer's French
translation of the Koran. The author of the postscript directs the
following invective against Mohammed and the Koran:
"Good Reader, the great Arabian Impostor now at last after a thousand
years, is by the way of France arrived in England, and his Alcoran, or
gallimaufry of errors, (a brat as deformed as the parent, and as full
of heresies as his scald head was of scurvy) hath learned to speak
English. * * * If you will take a brief view of the Alcoran, you shall
find it a hodgepodge made up of these four ingredients: 1. Of
Contradictions. 2. Of Blasphemy. 3. Of ridiculous Fables. 4. Of Lies."
The accusation of blasphemy is emphasized against Mohammed because he
affirmed that God, being unmarried, was incapable of having a Son! The
fallacious argument, however, is apparent from the Prophet's own views
of the nature of God as contained in the second sura of the Koran:
"To Allah [God] belongeth the east and the west; therefore,
whithersoever ye turn yourselves to pray, there is the face of Allah;
for Allah is omnipresent and omniscient. They say, Allah hath begotten
children: Allah forbid! To him belongeth whatever is in heaven, and on
earth; all is possessed by him, the Creator of heaven and earth; and
when he decreeth a thing, he only saith unto it, Be, and it is." In
other words, the God of Islam has but to desire and the object of that
desire at once comes into being, whereas the God of Alexander Ross
must proceed in accord with the laws of human generation!
Mohammed, Prophet of Islam, "the desired of all nations," was born in
Mecca, A.D. 570 (?) and died in Medina, A.D. 632, or in the
eleventh ),ear after the Hegira. Washington Irving thus describes the
signs and wonders accompanying the birth of the Prophet:
"His mother suffered none of the pangs of travail. At the moment of
his coming into the world a celestial light illumined the surrounding
country, and the new born child, raising his eyes to heaven,
exclaimed: 'God is great! There is no God bur God, and I am his
prophet!' Heaven and earth, we are assured, were agitated at his
advent. The Lake Sawa shrank back to its secret springs, leaving its
borders dry; while the Tigris, bursting its bounds, overflowed the
neighboring lands. The palace of Khosru the king of Persia shook t on
its foundations, and several of its towers were toppled to the earth.
* * * In the same eventful night the sacred fire of Zoroaster, which,
guarded by the Magi, had burned without interruption for upward of a
thousand years, was suddenly extinguished, and all the idols in the
world fell down." (See Mahomet and His Successors.)
While the Prophet was still but a toddling babe, the Angel Gabriel
with seventy wings came to him, and cutting open the child, withdrew
the heart. This Gabriel cleansed of the black drop of original sin
which is in every human heart because of the perfidy of Adam and then
returned the organ to its proper place in the Prophet's body. (See
footnote in E. H. Palmer's translation of the Qur'an.)
In his youth Mohammed traveled with the Meccan caravans, on one
occasion acted as armor-bearer for his uncle, and spent a considerable
time among the Bedouins, from whom he learned many of the religious
and philosophic traditions of ancient Arabia. While traveling with his
uncle, Abu Taleb, Mohammed contacted the Nestorian Christians, having
encamped on a certain night near one of their monasteries. Here the
young Prophet-to-be secured much of his information concerning the
origin and doctrines of the Christian faith.
With the passing years Mohammed attained marked success in business
and when about twenty-six years old married one of his employers, a
wealthy widow nearly fifteen years his senior. The widow, Khadijah by
name, was apparently somewhat mercenary, for, finding her young
business manager most efficient, she resolved to retain him in that
capacity for life! Khadijah was a woman of exceptional mentality and
to her integrity and devotion must be ascribed the early success of
the Islamic cause. By his marriage Mohammed was elevated from a
position of comparative poverty to one of great wealth and power, and
so exemplary was his conduct that he became known throughout Mecca as
"the faithful and true."
Mohammed would have lived and died an honored and respected Meccan had
he not unhesitatingly sacrificed both his wealth and social position
in the service of the God whose voice he heard while meditating in the
cavern on Mount Hira in the month of Ramadan. Year after year Mohammed
climbed the rocky and desolate slopes of Mount Hira (since called
Jebel Nur, "the Mountain of light") and here in his loneliness cried
out to God to reveal anew the pure religion of Adam, that spiritual
doctrine lost to mankind through the dissensions of religious
factions. Khadijah, solicitous over her husband's ascetic practices
which were impairing his physical health, sometimes accompanied him in
his weary vigil, and with womanly intuition sensed the travail of his
soul. At last one night in his fortieth year as he lay upon the floor
of the cavern, enveloped in his cloak, a great light burst upon him.
Overcome with a sense of perfect peace and understanding in the
blessedness of the celestial presence, he lost consciousness. When he
came to himself again the Angel Gabriel stood before him, exhibiting a
silken shawl with mysterious characters traced upon it. From these
characters Mohammed gained the basic doctrines later embodied in the
Koran. Then Gabriel spoke in a clear and wonderful voice, declaring
Mohammed to be the Prophet of the living God.
In awe and trembling, Mohammed hastened to Khadijah, fearing the
vision to have been inspired by the same evil spirits who served the
pagan magicians so greatly despised by him, Khadijah
In the seventeenth sura of the Koran it is written that upon a certain
night Mohammed was transported from the temple at Mecca to that of
Jerusalem, but no details are given of the strange journey. In the
Mishkāteu ’l-Masabih, Mohammed is made to describe his ascent through
the seven heavens into the icy presence of the may-veiled God and his
subsequent return to his own bed, all in a single night. Mohammed was
awakened in the night by the Angel Gabriel, who, after removing the
Prophet's heart, washed the cavity with Zamzam water, and filled the
heart itself with faith and science. A strange creature, called
Alborak, or the lightning bolt, was brought for the conveyance of the
Prophet. Alborak is described as white animal of the shape and size of
a mule, with the head of a woman and the tail of a peacock. According
to some versions, Mohammed merely rode Alborak to Jerusalem, where,
dismounting upon Mount Moriah, he caught hold of the lower rung of a
golden ladder lowered from heaven and, accompanied by Gabriel,
ascended through the seven spheres separating he earth from the inner
surface of the empyrean. At the gate of each sphere stood me of the
Patriarchs, whom Mohammed saluted as he entered the various planes. At
the gate of the first heaven stood Adam; at the gate of the second,
John and Jesus (sisters' sons); at the third, Joseph; at the fourth,
Enoch; at the fifth, Aaron; at the sixth, Moses; and at the seventh,
Abraham. Another order of the Patriarchs and prophets is given which
places Jesus at the gate of the seventh heaven, and upon reaching this
Point Mohammed is said to have requested Jesus to intercede for him
before the throne of God.
p. 190
assured him that his own virtuous life would be his protection and
that he need fear no evil. Thus reassured, the Prophet awaited further
visitations from Gabriel. When these did not come, however, such a
despair filled his soul that he attempted self-destruction, only to be
stopped in the very act of casting himself over a cliff by the sudden
reappearance of Gabriel, who again assured the Prophet that the
revelations needed by his people would be given to him as necessity
arose.
Possibly as a result of his lonely periods of meditation, Mohammed
seemingly was subject to ecstatic swoons. On the occasions when the
various suras of the Koran were dictated he is said to have fallen
unconscious, and, regardless of the chill of the surrounding air, to
have been covered with beads of perspiration. Often these attacks came
without warning; at other times he would sit wrapped in a blanket to
prevent a chill from the copious perspiration, and while apparently
unconscious would dictate the various passages which a small circle of
trusted friends would either commit to memory or reduce to writing. On
one occasion in later life when Abu Bekr referred to the gray hairs in
his beard, Mohammed, lifting the end of his beard and looking at it,
declared its whiteness to be due to the physical agony attendant upon
his periods of inspiration.
If the writings attributed to Mohammed be considered as merely the
hallucinations of an epileptic--and for that reason discounted--his
Christian detractors should beware lest with the doctrines of the
Prophet they also undermine the very teachings which they themselves
affirm, for many of the disciples, apostles, and saints of the early
church are known to have been subject to nervous disorders. Mohammed's
first convert was his own wife, Khadijah, who was followed by other
members of his immediate family, a circumstance which moved Sir
William Muir to note:
"It is strongly corroborative of Mohammed's sincerity that the
earliest converts to Islam were not only of upright character, but his
own bosom friends and people of his household; who, intimately
acquainted with his private life, could not fail otherwise to have
detected those discrepancies which ever more or less exist between the
professions of the hypocritical deceiver abroad and his actions at:
home." (See The Life of Mohammad.)
Among the first to accept the faith of Islam was Abu Bekr, who became
Mohammed's closest and most faithful friend, in fact his alter ego.
Abu Bekr, a man of brilliant attainments, contributed materially to
the success of the Prophet's enterprise, and in accord with the
express wish of the Prophet became the leader of the faithful after
Mohammed's death. A’isha, the daughter of Abu Bekr, later became the
wife of Mohammed, thus still further cementing the bond of fraternity
between the two men. Quietly, but industriously, Mohammed promulgated
his doctrines among a small circle of powerful friends. When the
enthusiasm of his followers finally forced his hand and he publicly
announced his mission, he was already the leader of a strong and well-
organized faction. Fearing Mohammed's growing prestige, the people of
Mecca, waiving the time-honored tradition that blood could not be
spilt within the holy city, decided to exterminate Islam by
assassinating the Prophet. All the different groups combined in this
undertaking so that the guilt for the crime might thereby be more
evenly distributed. Discovering the danger in time, Mohammed left his
friend Ali in his bed and fled with Abu Bekr from the city, and after
adroitly eluding the Meccans, joined the main body of his followers
that had preceded him to Yathrib (afterwards called Medina). Upon this
incident-called the Hegira or "flight"--is based the Islamic
chronological system.
Dating from the Hegira the power of the Prophet steadily grew until in
the eighth year Mohammed entered Mecca after practically a bloodless
victory and established it as the spiritual center of his faith.
Planting his standard to the north of Mecca, he rode into the city,
and after circling seven times the sacred Caaba, ordered the 360
images within its precincts to be hewn down. He then entered the Caaba
itself, cleansed it of its idolatrous associations, and rededicated
the structure to Allah, the monotheistic God of Islam. Mohammed next
granted amnesty to all his enemies for their attempts to destroy him.
Under his protection Mecca increased in power and glory, becoming the
focal point of a great annual pilgrimage, which even to this day winds
across the desert in the months of pilgrimage and numbers over
threescore thousand in its train.
In the tenth year after the Hegira, Mohammed led the valedictory
pilgrimage and for the last time rode at the head of the faithful
along the sacred way leading to Mecca and the Black Stone. As the
premonition of death was strong upon him, he desired this pilgrimage
to be the perfect model for all the thousands that would follow.
"Conscious that life was waning away within him," writes Washington
Irving, "Mahomet, during this last sojourn in the sacred city of his
faith, sought to engrave his doctrines deeply in the minds and hearts
of his followers. For this purpose he preached frequently in the Caaba
from the pulpit, or in the open air from the back of his camel.
'Listen to my words,' would he say, 'for I know not whether, after
this year, we shall ever meet here again. Oh, my hearers, I am but a
man like yourselves; the angel of death may at any time appear, and I
must obey his summons."' While thus preaching, the very heavens are
said to have opened and the voice of God spoke, saying: "This day I
have perfected your religion, and accomplished in you my grace." When
these words were uttered the multitude fell down in adoration and even
Mohammed's camel knelt. (See Mahomet and His Successors.) Having
completed the valedictory pilgrimage, Mohammed returned to Medina.
In the seventh year after the Hegira (A.H. 7) an attempt was made at
Kheibar to poison the Prophet. As Mohammed took the first mouthful of
the poisoned food, the evil design was revealed to him either by the
taste of the meat or, as the faithful believe, by divine intercession.
He had already swallowed a small portion of the food, however, and for
the remainder of his life he suffered almost constantly from the
effects of the poison. In A.H. 11, when his final illness came upon
him, Mohammed insisted that the subtle effects of the poison were the
indirect cause of his approaching end. It is related that during his
last sickness he rose one night and visited a burial ground on the
outskirts of Medina, evidently believing that he, too, would soon be
numbered with the dead. At this time he told an attendant that the
choice had been offered him of continuing his physical life or going
to his Lord, and that he had chosen to meet his Maker.
Mohammed suffered greatly with his head and side and also from fever,
but on June 8th seemed convalescent. He joined his followers in prayer
and, seating himself in the courtyard, delivered a lecture to the
faithful in a clear and powerful voice. Apparently he overtaxed his
strength, for it was necessary to assist him into the house of A’isha,
which opened into the court of the mosque. Here upon a tough pallet
laid on the bare floor the prophet of Islam spent his last two hours
on earth. When she saw that her aged husband was suffering intense
pain, A’isha--then but a girl of twenty--lifting the gray head of the
man she had known from infancy and who must have seemed more like a
father than a husband, supported him in her arms until the end.
Feeling that death was upon him, Mohammed prayed: "O Lord, I beseech
Thee, assist me in the agonies of death." Then almost in a whisper he
repeated three times: "Gabriel, come close unto me." (For details
consult The Life of Mohammad by Sir William Muir.) In The Hero as
Prophet, Thomas Carlyle writes thus of the death of Mohammed: "His
last words were a prayer, broken ejaculations of a heart struggling-up
in trembling hope towards its Maker."
Mohammed was buried under the floor of the apartment in which he died.
The present condition of the grave is thus described:
"Above the Hujrah is a green dome, surmounted by a large gilt
crescent, springing from a series of globes. Within the building are
the tombs of Muhammad, Abū Bakr, and ’Umar, with a space reserved for
the grave of our Lord Jesus Christ, who Muslims say will again visit
the earth, and die and be buried at al-Madīnah. The grave of Fātimah,
the Prophet's daughter, is supposed to be in a separate part of the
building, although some say she was buried in Baqī’. The Prophet's
body is said to be stretched full length on the right side, with the
right palm supporting the right check, the face fronting Makkah. Close
behind him is placed Abū Bakr, whose face fronts Muhammad's shoulder,
and then ’Umar, who occupies the same position with respect to his
predecessor. Amongst Christian historians there is a popular story to
the effect that Muhammadans believed the coffin of their Prophet to be
suspended in the air, which has no foundation whatever in Muslim
literature, and Niebuhr thinks the story must have arisen from the
rude pictures sold to strangers. (See A Dictionary of Islam.)
Concerning the character of Mohammed there have been the grossest
misconceptions. No evidence exists to support the charges of extreme
cruelty and licentiousness laid at his door. On the other hand, the
more closely the life of Mohammed is scrutinized by dispassionate
investigators, the more apparent become the finer qualities of his
nature. In the words of Carlyle:
"Mahomet himself, after all that can be said about him, was nor, a
sensual man. We so err widely if we consider this man as a common
voluptuary, intent mainly on base enjoyments--nay, on enjoyments of
any kind. His household was of the frugalest, his common diet barley
bread and water. Sometimes for months there was not a fire once
lighted on his hearth. * * * A poor, hard-working, ill-provided man;
careless of what vulgar man toiled for. * * * They called him a
Prophet, you say? Why, he stood there face to face with them; there,
not enshrined in any mystery, visibly clouting his own cloak, cobbling
his own shoes, fighting, counselling, ordering in the midst of them,
they must have seen what kind of a man he was, let him be called what
you like! No emperor with his tiaras was obeyed as this man in a cloak
of his own clouting."
Confused by the apparently hopeless task of reconciling the life of
the Prophet with the absurd statements long accepted as authentic,
Washington Irving weighs him in the scales of fairness.
p. 191
"His military triumphs awakened no pride nor vainglory, as they would
have done had they been effected for selfish purposes. In the time of
his greatest power, he maintained the same simplicity of manners and
appearances as in the days of his adversity. * * * It is this perfect
abnegation of self, connected with this apparent heartfelt piety,
running throughout the various phases of his fortune, which perplex
one in forming a just estimate of Mahomet's character. * * * When he
hung over the death-bed of his infant son Ibrahim, resignation to the
will of God was exhibited in his conduct under this keenest of
afflictions; and the hope of soon rejoining his child in Paradise was
his consolation." (See Mahomet and His Successors.)
A'isha, questioned after the death of the Prophet concerning his
habits, replied that he mended his own clothes, cobbled his own shoes,
and helped her in the household duties. How far removed from Western
concepts of Mohammed's sanguinary character is A’isha's simple
admission that he loved most of all to sew! He also accepted the
invitations of slaves and sat at meals with servants, declaring
himself to be a servant. Of all vices he hated lying the most. Before
his death he freed all his slaves. He never permitted his family to
use for personal ends any of the alms or tithe money given by his
people. He was fond of sweetmeats and used rain water for drinking
purposes. His time he divided into three parts, namely: the first he
gave to God, the second to his family, and the third to himself. The
latter portion, however, he later sacrificed to the service of his
people. He dressed chiefly in white but also wore red, yellow, and
green. Mohammed entered Mecca wearing a black turban and
bearing a black standard. He wore only the plainest of garments,
declaring that rich and conspicuous raiment did not become the pious,
and did not remove his shoes at prayer. He was particularly concerned
with the cleanliness of his teeth and at the time of his death, when
too weak to speak, indicated his desire for a toothpick. When fearful
of forgetting something, the Prophet tied a thread to his ring. He
once had a very fine gold ring but, noting that his followers had
taken to wearing similar rings in emulation of him, he removed his own
and threw it away lest his followers form an evil habit. (See The Life
of Mohammad.)
The most frequent, and apparently the most damaging, accusation
brought against Mohammed is that of polygamy. Those who sincerely
believe the harem to be irreconcilable with spirituality should with
consistency move for the expurgation of the Psalms of David and the
Proverbs of Solomon from the list of inspired writings, for the harem
of Islam's Prophet was insignificant compared with that maintained by
Israel's wisest king and the reputed favorite of the Most High! The
popular conception that Mohammed taught that woman had no soul and
could attain heaven only through marriage is not substantiated by the
words and attitude of the Prophet during his lifetime. In a paper
entitled The Influence of Islam on Social Conditions, read at the
World's Parliament of Religions held in Chicago, in 1893, Mohammed
Webb states the charge and answers it thus:
"it has been said that Mohammed and the Koran denied a soul to woman
and ranked her with the animals. The Koran places her on a perfect and
complete equality with man, and the Prophet's teachings often place
her in a position superior to the male in some respects." Mr. Webb
justifies his stand by quoting from the thirty-fifth verse of the
thirty-third sura of the Koran:
"Verily the Moslems of either sex, and the true believers of either
sex, and the devout men, and the devout women, and the men of
veracity, and the women of veracity, and the patient men, and the
patient women, and the humble men, and the humble women, and the alms-
givers of either sex, and the men who fast, and the women who fast,
and the chaste men, and the chaste women, and those of either sex who
remember Allah frequently: for them hath Allah prepared forgiveness
and a great reward." Here the attainment of heaven is clearly set
forth as a problem whose only solution is that of individual merit.
On the day of his death Mohammed told Fatima, his beloved daughter,
and Safiya, his aunt: "Work ye out that which shall gain acceptance
for you with the Lord: for I verily have no power with Him to save you
in any wise." The Prophet did not advise either woman to rely upon the
virtues of her husband nor in any manner did he indicate woman's
salvation to be dependent upon the human frailty of her spouse.
Everything to the contrary notwithstanding, Mohammed is not
responsible for the contradictions and inconsistencies in the Koran,
for the volume was not compiled and did not assume its present form
until over twenty years after his death. In its present state the
Koran is, for the major part, a jumble of hearsay through which
occasionally shines forth an example of true inspiration. From what is
known of the man Mohammed, it is reasonable to suppose that these
nobler and finer portions represent the actual doctrines of the
Prophet; the remainder are obvious interpolations, some arising from
misunderstanding and others direct forgeries calculated to satisfy the
temporal ambitions of conquering Islam. On this subject, Godfrey
Higgins speaks with his usual perspicacity:
"Here we have the Koran of Mohammed and the first four sincere and
zealous patriarchs, and the Koran of the conquering and magnificent
Saracens--puffed up with pride and vanity. The Koran of the eclectic
philosopher was not likely to suit the conquerors of Asia. A new one
must be grafted on the old, to find a justification for their
enormities." (See Anacalypsis.)
To the discerning few it is evident that Mohammed had a knowledge of
that secret doctrine which must needs constitute the core of every
great philosophical, religious, or ethical institution. Through one of
four possible avenues Mohammed may have contacted the ancient Mystery
teachings: (1) through direct contact with the Great School in the
invisible world; (2) through the Nestorian Christian monks; (3)
through the mysterious holy man who appeared and disappeared at
frequent intervals during the period in which the suras of the Koran
were revealed; (4) through a decadent school already existing in
Arabia, which school in spite of its lapse into idolatry still
retained the secrets of the Ancient Wisdom cult. The arcana of Islam
may yet be demonstrated to have been directly founded upon the ancient
pagan Mysteries performed at the Caaba centuries before the birth of
the Prophet; in fact it is generally admitted that many of the
ceremonials now embodied in the Islamic Mysteries are survivals of
pagan Arabia.
The feminine principle is repeatedly emphasized in Islamic symbolism.
For example, Friday, which is sacred to the planer Venus, is the
Moslem's holy day; green is the color of the Prophet and, being
symbolic of verdure, is inevitably associated with the World Mother;
and both the Islamic crescent and the scimitar may be interpreted to
signify the crescent shape of either the moon or Venus.
"The famous 'Stone of Cabar,' Kaaba, Cabir, or Kebir, at Mecca," says
Jennings, "which is so devoutly kissed by the Faithful, is a Talisman.
It is said that the figure of Venus is seen to this day engraved upon
it with a crescent. This very Caaba itself was at first an idolatrous
temple, where the Arabians worshipped Al-Uzza (God and Issa), that is
Venus." (See Kenealy's Enoch, The Second Messenger of God.)
"The Mussulmans," writes Sir William Jones, "are already a sort of
heterodox Christians: they are Christians, if Locke reasons justly,
because they firmly believe the immaculate conception, divine
character, and miracles of the MESSIAH; but they are heterodox, in
denying vehemently his character of Son, and his equality, as God,
with the Father, of whose unity and attributes they entertain and
express the most awful ideas; while they consider our doctrine as
perfect blasphemy, and insist that our copies of the Scriptures have
been corrupted both by Jews and Christians."
The following lines are declared by the followers of the Prophet to
have been deleted from the Christian Gospels: "And when Jesus, the Son
of Mary, said, O children of Israel, verily I am the apostle of God
sent unto you, confirming the law which was delivered before me, and
bringing good tidings of an apostle who shall come after me, and whose
name shall be AHMED." In the present text containing the prophecy of
Jesus concerning a comforter to come after Him, it is further claimed
that the word comforter should be translated illustrious and that it
had a direct reference to Mohammed; also that the tongues of flame
that descended upon the apostles on the day of Pentecost in no way
could be interpreted as signifying the promised comforter. When asked,
however, for definite proof that the original Gospels contained these
so-called expurgated references to Mohammed, the Moslems make a
counter-demand for production of the original documents upon which
Christianity is founded. Until such writings are discovered, the point
under dispute must remain a source of controversy.
To ignore the heritage of culture received from Islam would be an
unpardonable oversight, for when the crescent triumphed over the cross
in Southern Europe it was the harbinger of a civilization which had no
equal in its day. In Studies in a Mosque, Stanley Lane-Poole writes:
"For nearly eight centuries under her Mohammedan rulers Spain set to
all Europe a shining example of a civilized and enlightened state. * *
* Art, literature and science prospered as they then prospered nowhere
else in Europe. Students flocked from France and Germany and England
to drink from the fountains of learning which flowed only in the
cities of the Moors. The surgeons and doctors of Andalusia were in the
van of science; women were encouraged to devote themselves to serious
study, and a lady doctor was not unknown among the people of Cordova.
Mathematics, astronomy and botany, history, philosophy and
jurisprudence, were to he mastered in Spain and in Spain alone."
The Library of Original Sources thus sums up the effects of Islam:
"The results of Mohammedism have been greatly underestimated. In the
century after Mohammed's death it wrested Asia Minor, Africa, and
Spain from Christianity, more than half of the civilized world, and
established a civilization, the highest in the world during the Dark
Ages. It brought the Arabian race to their highest development, raised
the position of women in the East, though it retained polygamy, was
intensively monotheistic, and until the Turks gained control for the
most part encouraged progress."
In the same work, among the great Islamic scientists and philosophers
who have made substantial contributions to human knowledge are listed
Gerber, or Djafer, who in the ninth century laid the foundations for
modern chemistry; Ben Musa, who in the tenth century introduced the
theory of algebra; Alhaze, who in the eleventh century made a profound
study of optics and discovered the magnifying power of convex lenses;
and in the eleventh century also, both Avicenna, or Ibn Sina, whose
medical encyclopedia was the standard of his age, and the great
Qabbalist Avicebron, or Ibn Gebirol.
"Looking back upon the science of the Mohammedans," resumes the
authority just quoted, "it will be seen that they laid the first
foundations of chemistry, and made important advances in mathematics
and optics. Their discoveries never had the influence they should have
had upon the course of European civilization, but this was because
Europe itself was not enlightened enough to grasp and make use of
them. Gerber's observation that oxidized iron weighs heavier than
before oxidation had to be made over again. So had some of their work
in optics, and many of their geographical discoveries. They had
rounded Africa long before Vasco da Gama. The composition of gunpowder
came into Northern Europe from them. We must never forget that the
dark ages in Christian Europe were the bright ones of the Mohammedan
world. In the field of philosophy the Arabs started by adopting the
neo-Platonism they found in Europe, and gradually working back to
Aristotle."
What means the subtle mystery of the phœnix reborn every six hundred
years? Faintly from within the sanctuary of the World Mysteries is
whispered the answer. Six hundred years before Christ the phœnix of
wisdom (Pythagoras?) spread its wings and died upon the altar of
humanity, consumed by the sacrificial fire. In Nazareth the bird was
again reborn from its own ashes, only to die upon the tree which had
its roots in Adam's skull. In A.D. 600 appeared Ahmed (Mohammed).
Again the phœnix suffered, this time from the poison of Kheibar, and
from its charred ashes rose to spread its wings across the face of
Mongolia, where in the twelfth century Genghis Khan established the
rule of wisdom. Circling the mighty desert of Gobi, the phœnix again
gave up its form, which now lies buried in a glass sarcophagus under a
pyramid bearing upon it the ineffable figures of the Mysteries. After
the lapse of six hundred years from the death of Genghis Khan, did
Napoleon Bonaparte--who believed himself to be the man of destiny--
contact in his wanderings this strange legend of the continual
periodic rebirth of wisdom? Did he feel the spreading wings of the
phœnix within himself and did he believe the hope of the world had
taken flesh in him? The eagle on his standard may well have been the
phœnix. This would explain why he was moved to believe himself
predestined to establish the kingdom of Christ on earth and is,
perhaps, the clue to his little-understood friendliness toward the
Moslem.
arah
> Oh yes Peter did lie, and the Bible shows that Jesus forgave hm, and
> made Peter a leader of the Church. Then as Peter found forgiveness
> and that only Jesus was the saviour that all the world was waiting to
> come, die and raise from the dead. Which Islam denies and so can not
> be the truth or of God.
Please explain to me the following statement by Jesus
Luke 6:46
21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom
of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many
will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in
Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your
name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart
from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’
Why " he who does the will of My Father in heaven" ????
Where gone Jesus the SAVIOUR??????
arah
> The tipoff that the Qur'an is man-made is it's intolerance of anyone
> who questions it.
Can you provide an example.
I don't understand what you meant.
FACE
<arah...@gmail.com>, wrote
>In the seventeenth sura of the Koran it is written that upon a certain
>night Mohammed was transported from the temple at Mecca to that of
>Jerusalem
What bullshit. There is no mention of the koran of Jerusalem.
Produce the arabic. Are you going to rewrite the words of your god?
I think that you get hellfire for that......... LOL!!!!!!!
find something in the koran more than:
17:1 (Yusuf Ali) "Glory to (God) Who did take His servant
for a Journey by night from the Sacred Mosque to the farthest Mosque,
whose precincts We did bless, - in order that We might show him some of
Our Signs: for He is the One Who heareth and seeth (all things). "
You *should* realize that the parenthetical additions do not exist in the
koran. So don't try to pull that.
The details of the story, including aiesha's statement that he never left
his bed that night, are all in hadeeth and tafsir.
Also show that there even *was* a mosque in Jerusalem at that time.
""This text tells us that Allah took His Prophet from the Al-Haram Mosque
[in Mecca] to the Al-Aqsa Mosque. Thus, two mosques are [referred to]
here, the first of which is the Al-Haram Mosque, and the second of which
is the Al-Aqsa Mosque. 'Al-Aqsa' is a form of superlative which means 'the
most distant.' Therefore, the place to which the Prophet was taken must be
a mosque, and not a place where a mosque was to be established later, nor
a place where a mosque had once stood. "
Have fun...............
FACE
<arah...@gmail.com>, wrote
>In the seventeenth sura of the Koran it is written that upon a certain
>night Mohammed was transported from the temple at Mecca to that of
>Jerusalem
What bullshit. There is no mention in the koran of Jerusalem, not one,
old mo had plans but never got off the Arabian peninsula.
Produce the arabic of the koran that mentions Jerusalem.
• R. L. Measures.
<821d2636-24a1-4f56...@y13g2000yqy.googlegroups.com>, arah
<arah...@gmail.com> wrote:
>On Jul 19, 3:19=A0am, r...@somis.org ( R. L. Measures.) wrote:
>
>> =A0The tipoff that the Qur'an is man-made is it's intolerance of anyone
>> who questions it.
>
>Can you provide an example.
>
>I don't understand what you meant.
** Questioning the Qur'an is seen as a personal insult to the wonderful
"prophet" - the remedy for which is decapitation.
Dr. R. Knapp
> In article
> <7ef29331-b547-4eb8-90b5-7e3e1224b...@u26g2000vby.googlegroups.com>,
>
> bishop <rwknapp...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >On Jul 14, 5:23=A0pm, "Patrick" <barker...@erinot.com> wrote:
> >> "Dr. R. Knapp" <rwkn...@gmail.com> wrote
>
> >What are your normal lies for today Patrick?. Before tying to steal
> >more personal ID information. So may all readers, beware this person
> >wants facts about people that he has no need or unless he wants to use
> >your ID for some ungodly reason.
>
> congrats P.B.
>
> There's a tender nerve behind the bull's-eye
The truth does hit the bull;s-eye for P.B.
Dr. R. Knapp
Simple since Jesus is God in the flesh and God is opitypresent and is
in heaven and everyplace so he could just as well said My Father in
Church. Then Jesus shows He is the Father and is on earth and is also
in Heaven.
John 14:8-11
8 Philip said to Him, "Lord, show us the Father, and it is sufficient
for us."
9 Jesus said to him, "Have I been with you so long, and yet you have
not known Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; so how
can you say, 'Show us the Father'? 10 Do you not believe that I am in
the Father, and the Father in Me? The words that I speak to you I do
not speak on My own authority; but the Father who dwells in Me does
the works. 11 Believe Me that I am in the Father and the Father in
Me, or else believe Me for the sake of the works themselves.
NKJV
Then to prove Jesus is the begotten of God and is God who came in the
form of the "Son of Man' we find the Angels that surly would know who
God is, said about Jesus this.
Matt 1:22 All this took place to fulfill what the Lord had said
through the prophet: 23 "The virgin will be with child and will give
birth to a son, and they will call him Immanuel"-which means, "God
with us." NIV
> Where gone Jesus the SAVIOUR??????
That question is suppose to mean what? Jesus is and always is Heb
13:7-8
7 Remember your leaders, who spoke the word of God to you. Consider
the outcome of their way of life and imitate their faith. 8 Jesus
Christ is the same yesterday and today and forever. NIV
Heb 13:7-8
7 Remember your leaders, who spoke the word of God to you. Consider
the outcome of their way of life and imitate their faith. 8 Jesus
Christ is the same yesterday and today and forever.
NIV
1 John 1:5-7
5 This is the message which we have heard from Him and declare to you,
that God is light and in Him is no darkness at all. 6 If we say that
we have fellowship with Him, and walk in darkness, we lie and do not
practice the truth. 7 But if we walk in the light as He is in the
light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus
Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin.
NKJV
Patrick
The truth does hit the bull;s-eye for P.B.
+ Just when I think you have learned your lesson, up you jump!
+ knappo, watch your cross-posting.
+ I hate it when I see your fake credentials messing up the ng.
+ Get out of the Catholic newsgroup.
+ Stay out.
Patrick
in heaven and everyplace so he could just as well said My Father in
Church.
+ Why do you torture me so?
+ If you feel you must explain God to heathens, please TRY to
use the proper definitions, the proper spelling, and stop making
an idiot of yourself.
Ask someone else to explain things.
You are not equipped or prepared to do it.
FACE
<bark...@erinot.com>, wrote
>+ Why do you torture me so?
What the hell makes you so "special". Explain that.
(You will probably resort to your classic usenet ad hominem, since that
appears to be all that you have.)
arah
On Jul 20, 12:52 am, FACE <AFaceInTheCr...@today.net> wrote:
> Produce the arabic of the koran that mentions Jerusalem.
> Are you going to rewrite the words of your god?
> I think that you get hellfire for that......... LOL!!!!!!!
Prophet Muhammad's Night Journey To Al-Masjid Al-Aqsa - The Farthest
Mosque
1. Introduction
Glory to (Allah) Who did take His Servant for a Journey by night
from the Sacred Mosque to the Farthest Mosque,
whose precincts We did bless,
- in order that We might show him some of Our Signs:
for He is the One Who heareth and seeth (all things). [Qur'an 17:1]
Many Christian missionaries point to an alleged difficulty concerning
the above passage. They claim that :
The Farthest Mosque (Al-Masjid-ul-Aqs-a) was built many years after
the death of Muhammad. It is utterly impossible that Muhammad visited
it on his Night Journey.
They further add :
The Temple of Solomon had been completely destroyed in 70 AD, i.e. 550
years before the alleged time of the Miraj in 622 AD, the twelfth year
of Muhammad's mission. A Temple that didn't exist anymore does not
provide any better solution to this problem than a Mosque which wasn't
built yet.
Similarly, the Christian apologist `Abdallah `Abd al-Fadi says:
Moreover, the Further [sic!] Mosque was not in existence at the time
of Muhammad, but was built about a hundred years after his death! How
could he have prayed in it, then, or described its gates and windows?
[1]
Firstly, al-Aqsa mosque was built not "about a hundred years" after
the death of the Prophet in 11 AH / 632 CE. In 49-50 AH / 670 CE,
Bishop Arculfus, a Christian visitor in Jerusalem, reported:
On the famous place where once stood the temple, the Saracens worship
at a square house of prayer, which they have built with little art, of
boards and large beams on the remains of some ruins...[2]
By the time Bishop Arculfus was in Jerusalem, some 40 years after the
death of Prophet Muhammad, the al-Aqsa mosque was already being used
as a place of worship by Muslims. Secondly, as usual, the solution to
such a "difficulty" lies in part in an elementary knowledge of the
Arabic language as well as an understanding of basic Islamic concepts
relating to the word "masjid".
2. What Is A Masjid?
We will begin by dealing with the word masjid from both the linguistic
and legal points of view. The Arabic word for "mosque" is masjid.
Discussing with the word masjid from a linguistic point of view al-
Zarkashi says:
Masjid from a linguistic point of view
Linguistically, it comes on the scheme of maf`il with a kasrah [i.e.
the 'i' of masjid] which is ism makan [i.e., name of location] for
prostration, while with a fathah [i.e., masjad] it is a masdar.
Abu Zakariyya al-Farra' [a famous grammarian] said: Every verb coming
on the scheme of fa`ala [in the past form] yaf`ulu [in the present
form] like dakhala yadkhulu [which means "to enter"] admits the form
maf`al with a fathah as a noun or masdar without distinction like in
dakhala madkhalan. There are some nouns that were bound to take a
kasrah on the second letter of its root like masjid, matli`, maghrib,
mashriq and others, thus making the kasrah a sign of the noun, and
some Arabs may say it with a fathah.
Indeed, masjid and masjad, and matli` and matla` were all narrated.
He said: Putting a fathah in all these forms is admissible even if we
did not hear it before.
He said in Al-Sihah: Masjad with a fathah refers to one's forehead
which is the place involved in prostration.[3]
The Arab grammarians classify masjid as "ism makan", i.e., "name of
location"; it indicates the place where an action takes place. Masjid
being derived from the root sa-ja-da (to prostrate), it means "place
of prostration". Since a place of worship is a place where believers
prostrate to God, "masjid" is a general term to designate any place of
worship without any religious distinction. Later, this word was used
to designate Islamic places of worship in particular, i.e., the
mosques.
The Prophet's night journey was from "the inviolable place of
worship" (al-Masjid al-Haram) to "the farthest place of worship" (al-
Masjid al-Aqsa). The former is certainly located in Makkah, but what
about the latter? The reference to Allah blessing its surroundings
(... whose precincts We did bless) suggests a location in the "Holy
Land" (cf. 21:81; 7:137; 34:18). Neal Robinson states:
The [Muslim] tradition which identifies it [i.e., al-Masjid al-Aqsa]
with the Temple Mount in Jerusalem makes admirable sense in view of
the fact that the 'place of worship' (masjid) whose destruction is
evoked in v. 7 [i.e., 17:7] is clearly the Temple.[4]
This view is also shared by many western scholars.[5]
As it was mentioned earlier that masjid refers to a place of
prostration without any religious distinction; an excellent example of
the usage of the word "masjid" referring to a non-Islamic sanctuary
can be seen in the verse 17:7. The verse describes briefly the
destruction of the masjid in Jerusalem (i.e., the Temple) by the
enemies of Children of Israel. Allah says in the Qur'an that the
destruction of the Temple in Jerusalem was a punishment was inflicted
upon the Children of Israel for their tyranny and arrogance.
Now that the linguistic issues are clarified, let us now turn to the
legal issues (i.e., Islamic Law) concerning the word masjid. Al-
Zarkashi says:
Masjid from a legal point of view
From a legal point of view it refers to every place on earth since the
Prophet - peace be upon him - said: "The earth was made a masjid for
me" which is a particularity of this ummah. This was said by the Qadi
`Iyad because the previous nations used not to pray except in the
places they were sure of their pureness whereas we were allowed to
perform the prayers in any place not known to be impure.[6]
Further he emphasizes:
Since prostration is the most honourable act in prayer because of the
nearness of the servant to his Lord, the name of the location was
derived from it. This is why we call it masjid [location of sujud /
prostration] and not marka` [place of ruku` / inclination].[7]
In summary, masjid from a linguistic point of view means a "place of
prostration" without any religious distinction. From a legal point of
view the word masjid in shari`ah constitutes every place on earth that
is fit for prostration. In other words masjid does not designate a
building but only a "place of prostration"; the place may or may not
have the building. In support of the argument, we quote hadith #323 in
Sahih al-Bukhari that has already been mentioned by al-Zarkashi:
Muhammad Ibn Sinan, i.e., al-`Awqi told us, Hushaym told us; and Sa`id
Ibn an-Nadr told me, Hushaym informed us that Sayyar informed us,
Yazid, i.e., Ibn Suhayb al-Faqir told us, Jabir Ibn `Abd Allah told
us:
The Prophet, peace be upon him, said, "I have been given five things
which were not given to any amongst the Prophets before me. These are:
1. Allah made me victorious by awe [by His frightening of my enemies]
for a distance of one month's journey.
2. The earth has been made for me [and for my followers] a
"masjid" [Arabic: a place for prostration] and a means of
purification. Therefore, my followers can pray wherever the time of a
prayer is due.
3. The booty has been made halal [lawful] for me [and was not made so
for anyone else].
4. Every Prophet used to be sent to his nation exclusively but I have
been sent to all mankind.
5. I have been given the right of intercession [on the Day of
Resurrection].[8]
So, according to this hadith, any place on the earth is a masjid for
Muslims. Therefore, whether there was a building or not when the
Prophet made his heavenly trip, it is the location of the "Farthest
Mosque" that is intended by the verse and not a building per se
because the location where it lies was blessed by God as mentioned in
verse 17:1 "the Farthest Mosque, whose precincts We did bless".
Therefore, no one can claim that the word "masjid" in the Islamic
terminology refers necessarily to a building. Imam Ibn Hajar confirms
this opinion in Fath al-Bari (his commentary on Sahih al-Bukhari) :
(the earth has been made for me a "masjid")
means a place for prostration, i.e., prostration is not restricted to
any particular place of the earth. It may also be a metaphor of a
construction built for prayer. This is due to the fact that once
prayer is authorized everywhere on earth it becomes like a mosque for
that purpose. Ibn al-Tin said: "The earth has been made for me a
masjid and a means of purification" both were given to the Prophet,
peace be upon him, while it was only a place for worship for others
and was not a means of purification, because Jesus used to walk around
and pray whenever prayer was due. Al-Dawudi said likewise before him.
It was also said that they [the previous generations] were authorized
to perform prayer in places known for sure to be pure, whereas this
ummah is authorized to pray anywhere on earth except in the places
known for sure to be impure. The strongest opinion is that of al-
Khattabi who says that earlier nations were authorized to perform
prayer in special places like synagogues and churches. This is
confirmed by the wording of the narration of Ibn Shu`ayb "And before
me people prayed in their churches." This is a controversial[?]
wording but the specificity was established [??]. This is supported by
the narration of al-Bazzar from the hadith of Ibn `Abbas similar to
the present hadith which includes "Prophets did not pray until they
reached their chamber".[9]
Before we close this issue, one should realize that verse 17:1 also
speaks of "The Sacred Mosque" which is in Makkah around the Ka`bah.
Did a building for the mosque exist there in the time of the Prophet?
The answer is that the Ka`bah was there but there was no building for
the mosque. This further adds to the argument that the word masjid in
this verse refers to a place of performing the prostration and does
not imply the presence of a "building" in the modern understanding.
The above understanding of the word masjid as a place of worship not
building per se is also well supported by archaeological and historic
evidence. Below we present a picture of an early mosque in a place
called Besor in Occupied Palestine.[10]
Moshe Sharon comments about the Besor mosque. He says:
To the west of the village on the top of the hill, overlooking the
valley and the houses of the village, was the threshing floor, and to
the south of it a small open mosque with a rectangular mihrab made of
3 blocks of stones [bottom figure]. The mosque was built to a height
of probably two layers of stones, no more than 0.5 m., and was almost
square, about 3 x 3 m. and could contain no more than 8-10 men at a
time.[11]
There are many other examples of early mosques from Negev region that
are nothing but a few stones arranged to mark the mihrab.[12,13]
Concerning early mosques, Creswell states:
... their [i.e., Muslims'] architectural resources, before they
started in their career of conquest, were barely enough to give
expression to their needs. In other words Arabia constituted an almost
perfect architectural vacuum... The first mosques in the great hiras,
or half nomadic encampments of the conquest, such as Basra, Kufa and
Fustat, were primitive in the extreme, and in Syria the first mosques
were churches that had been converted or merely divided: In fact there
is no reason for believing that any mosque was built as such in Syria
until the time of al-Walid (705-15) or possibly `Abd al-Malik
(685-705), for over a generation the Arabs remained quite untouched by
any architectural ambitions...[14]
It is worth noting that the Prophet disliked extravagance and
impressive architecture in buildings, especially mosques. The relative
simplicity of early mosques is in fact a historical example of how the
Prophet's Companions diligently followed his wishes. This is true to a
greater extent even today.
3. Al-Masjid Al-Aqsa: A Place Of Prostration For Jews
The Qur'an refers to al-Aqsa as a masjid, a place of prostration. Was
this place used for prostration in early times?
Al-Masjid al-Aqsa and the surrounding area (i.e., Dome of the Rock
among others) is usually identified with the place where the Temple of
Solomon once stood. Bet ha-Miqdash, as the Temple is usually known in
Jewish literature, was primarily a place of assembly for the entire
people, for purposes of sacrifice, prayer, and thanksgiving. It is in
the prayer ritual that prostrations were performed by the priests.
Encyclopaedia Judaica provides an interesting account of the prayer
ritual by the priests of the Temple.
The priest who had gathered the coals entered the sanctuary first,
scattered them over the incense altar, prostrated himself, and
departed. Then the priest who was chosen by lot to offer the incense
entered, bearing the pan of incense in his hand. He was accompanied by
a priest appointed for this task who instructed him in the proper
ritual, and he did not offer it until he was told: "Offer the
incense!" The officiating priest waited until the space between the
hall and the altar was cleared of people, offered up the incense,
prostrated himself, and departed (Tam. 6; Kelim end of ch. 1). During
the offering of the incense in the sanctuary, the people used to
gather in the azarah for prayer, and even outside the Temple these
times were set aside for prayer (cf. Luke 1:10; Judith 9:1). After the
departure of the priest who had offered the incense, all the priests
filed into the sanctuary, prostrated themselves, and went out again.
[15]
It is interesting to note that the Temple was considered as the only
place of prostration by some Rabbis and that they would refuse to
completely prostrate outside the Temple in Jerusalem.[16]
The Jewish concept of worship has extensive vocabulary, out of which
hishtahawah, "to prostrate oneself," is the most frequently used in
the Hebrew Bible (86 times).[17]
4. Yet Another Problem!
In the same article, the missionaries express another objection:
In Yusuf Ali's commentary on this verse we read: "The Farthest Mosque
must refer to the site of the Temple of Solomon in Jerusalem..." So,
it is interpreted to be not the building itself, but only the site,
the location where it had been. I might be wrong, but this seems to be
contradicted by a hadith and Muhammad's understanding that Al-Masjid-
ul-Aqs-a is something that is built, not just a location. Al-Masjid-ul-
Haram after all was a building.
Sahih Bukhari, Volume 4, Book 55, Number 636:
Narrated Abu Dhaar:
I said, "O Allah's Apostle! Which mosque was built first?" He replied,
"Al-Masjid-ul-Haram." I asked, "Which (was built) next?" He replied,
"Al-Masjid-ul-Aqs-a (i.e. Jerusalem)." I asked, "What was the period
in between them?" He replied, "Forty (years)." He then added,
"Wherever the time for the prayer comes upon you, perform the prayer,
for all the earth is a place of worshipping for you."
This hadith actually introduces yet another problem. Abraham
supposedly (re)built the Kaaba, (and Abraham lived about 2000 BC) and
the Temple was built by Solomon in about 958-951 BC, then Muhammad
gave another historically false information based on a major confusion
about the time when these people lived.
Firstly, we have already shown that the word masjid does not
necessarily refer to a building but rather to a location, i.e., the
place of prostration. Secondly, the missionaries try to deceive the
readers in the above paragraphs. Indeed, they admit the Islamic
opinion that Abraham rebuilt the Ka`bah (it was Adam who built it
originally according to the Islamic tradition), but for unjustified
reason they overlook the Islamic traditions addressing the
construction of the farthest mosque, presumably to generate a
"contradiction".
They identify the Farthest Mosque with the Temple of Solomon without
further justification, and point out an error that they had invented
themselves. Let us for example see what Imam Ibn Hajar says about this
hadith in Fath al-Bari:
His saying (40 years)
Ibn al-Jawzi said: It raises a problem since Abraham built the Ka`bah
and Solomon built Bayt al-Maqdis [another name of al-Masjid al-Aqsa
cf. Hebrew Bet ha-Miqdash] and there are 1,000 years between them. His
evidence for saying that it is Solomon - peace be upon him - who built
the Farthest Mosque is the narration of al-Nasa'i from the hadith of
`Abd Allah Ibn `Amr Ibn al-`As attributed to the Prophet with an
authentic isnad that "When Solomon built Bayt al-Maqdis he asked God
the Most High for three things etc." and in al-Tabarani from the
hadith of Rafi` Ibn `Umayrah that "David - peace be upon him - started
building Bayt al-Maqdis but God inspired him: I shall accomplish its
building with Solomon" and the hadith has a story. He [Ibn al-Jawzi]
said: "The answer to that is that the mention concerns the first
construction and the foundation of the mosque and it is not Abraham
who built the Ka`bah for the first time nor is it Solomon who built
Bayt al-Maqdis for the first time. Indeed, we have narrated that the
first one who built the Ka`bah is Adam. Then his progeny spread out on
earth. Therefore, it is possible that one of them built Bayt al-
Maqdis. Later, Abraham (re)built the Ka`bah according to the Qur'an."
Likewise, al-Qurtubi said: The hadith does not indicate that Abraham
and Solomon were the first ones to build the two mosques. It was only
a renovation of what had been founded by others.[18]
After quoting other opinions, Ibn Hajar insists :
But the possibility mentioned by Ibn al-Jawzi is more pertinent. And I
found evidence supporting those who say that it is Adam who founded
both mosques. For instance, Ibn Hisham mentioned in "Kitab al-Tijan"
that when Adam built the Ka`bah, God ordered him to walk to Bayt al-
Maqdis and build it and so he did and offered worship in it. And the
construction of the House [Arabic: al-Bayt, i.e., the Ka`bah] is
famous and we have mentioned earlier the hadith of `Abd Allah Ibn `Amr
that the House was elevated in the time of the flood until God showed
Abraham its location. Ibn Abi Hatim narrated from the way of Ma`mar
from Qatadah: God founded the House with Adam when he descended. But
Adam missed the voices of the Angels and their prayers. Therefore, God
told him: I sent down a House around which [people] will revolve like
it is revolved around my Throne, so set out to it. Adam set out to
Makkah - He had descended in India, and his steps were enlarged until
he reached the House and revolved around it. It was also said that
when he had prayed at the Ka`bah, he was ordered to set out to
Jerusalem where he built a masjid [mosque] and prayed therein so that
it became a qiblah to a part of his progeny.[19]
In summary, the verse 17:1 refers to the holy locations in Jerusalem
and Makkah because they are blessed regardless of the presence or
absence of a building at the time of the heavenly trip of Prophet
Muhammad. From an Islamic point of view, evidence has been given by
eminent Muslim scholars like Ibn Hajar and Ibn al-Jawzi showing that
it was Adam who built both mosques for the first time and that the job
of Abraham and Solomon was only a renovation/reconstruction of these
sanctuaries.
5. Conclusions
The word masjid from a linguistic point of view refers to a place of
prostration without any religious distinction. From a legal point of
view the word masjid in shari`ah constitutes every place on earth that
is fit for prostration, whether or not it is a building.
The verse 17:1 may very well refer to the holy locations in Jerusalem
and Makkah because they are blessed regardless of the presence or
absence of a building at the time of the heavenly trip of Prophet
Muhammad from Makkah to Jerusalem to the Heavens. From an Islamic
point of view, evidence has been given by eminent Muslim scholars like
Ibn Hajar and Ibn al-Jawzi who have discussed the issue. They have
shown that it was Adam who built both mosques for the first time and
that the duty of Abraham and Solomon was only a renovation/
reconstruction of these sanctuaries.
And Allah knows best!
Further Reading
http://www.islamic-awareness.org/Quran/Contrad/External/aqsa.html
arah
> Simple since Jesus is God in the flesh and God is opitypresent and is
> in heaven and everyplace so he could just as well said My Father in
> Church. Then Jesus shows He is the Father and is on earth and is also
> in Heaven.
> John 14:8-11
If what you believe is the truth, why the bible stated that Jesus
( God in the flesh and God is opitypresent and is
in heaven and everyplace ) cried before Cruzification?
§ “From the sixth hour until the ninth hour darkness came over
all the land. About the ninth hour Jesus cried out in a loud voice,
“Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani?” – which means, “My God, my God, why
have you forsaken me?” When some of those standing there heard this,
they said, “He’s calling Elijah.” Immediately one of them ran and got
a sponge. He filled it with wine vinegar, put it on a stick, and
offered it to Jesus to drink. The rest said, “Now leave Him along.
Let’s see if Elijah comes to save Him” (Matthew 27:45-49).
You are confused between the teaching of Jesus and the false teaching
of Paul or Saul the Murderer.
Patrick
"FACE" <AFaceIn...@today.net> wrote in message
news:msse27l3abbu08hal...@4ax.com...
Then why did you ask?
FACE
<arah...@gmail.com>, wrote
Surely you did not think that you would get by without actually answering
the questions, but thanks for proving what I said to be true about no
detail of it being in the koran. I reproduce the original post here:
"On Tue, 19 Jul 2011 12:52:58 -0700 (PDT), in alt.religion.islam, arah
<arah...@gmail.com>, wrote
>In the seventeenth sura of the Koran it is written that upon a certain
>night Mohammed was transported from the temple at Mecca to that of
>Jerusalem
What bullshit. There is no mention in the koran of Jerusalem, not one,
old mo had plans but never got off the Arabian peninsula.
Produce the arabic of the koran that mentions Jerusalem.
Are you going to rewrite the words of your god?
I think that you get hellfire for that......... LOL!!!!!!!
find something in the koran more than:
17:1 (Yusuf Ali) "Glory to (God) Who did take His servant
for a Journey by night from the Sacred Mosque to the farthest Mosque,
whose precincts We did bless, - in order that We might show him some of
Our Signs: for He is the One Who heareth and seeth (all things). "
You *should* realize that the parenthetical additions do not exist in the