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San Bernardino shooting victim 'had argued with killer about Islam'
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dav...@agent.com
Dec 7, 2015, 3:12:22 AM12/7/15
to
San Bernardino shooting victim 'had argued with killer about Islam'
Nicholas Thalasinos was a colleague of gunman Syed Farook, and wrote
fiery posts online denouncing Muslims
by Yvette Cabrera, Rory Carroll and Tom Dart in San Bernardino
5 December 2015, the Guardian
Friends and family have described Nicholas Thalasinos, one of the 14
people slaughtered in San Bernardino, as a devoted father, husband and
colleague, a dedicated health inspector, colourful dresser and
outspoken conservative.
But as detectives investigate Wednesday’s rampage, seeking clues about
the killers’ motives, his widow, Jennifer, says she believes he was
also a martyr. Thalasinos died at the hands of Syed Farook and
Tashfeen Malik, a married couple who opened fire in the Inland
Regional Center, a social services agency where Farook worked.
Farook, 28, and Malik were Muslims and Thalasinos, a Messianic Jew,
took issue with Islam. He wrote fiery posts online and used a
derogatory term to describe Muslims. He had also argued with Farook, a
fellow health inspector.
Their relationship came under scrutiny on Friday when lawyers for
Farook’s family cited workplace tension as a possible factor in the
country’s deadliest mass shooting in three years. “Someone made fun of
his beard. He was a very isolated, introverted individual with really
no friends that we could identify,” David Chesley told a news
conference in Los Angeles.
Farook had mentioned the teasing to his family, said Mohammad
Abuershaid, another attorney. The lawyers mentioned “intolerance” and
a “disgruntled colleague” at Farook’s workplace but did not elaborate.
Thalasinos’s widow told the New York Post on Thursday her husband was
“anti-Muslim” and “probably had plenty to say” to Farook. “I’m sure
everybody has seen his Facebook page. He’s very outspoken about
Islamic terrorism and how he feels about politics in the state of the
country,” she said. The FBI has called the atrocity an act of
terrorism and there are reports Malik, 29 – a Pakistani national who
met her husband in Saudi Arabia – pledged allegiance to Islamic State.
However, the agency said there was no indication they were part of an
larger organised group. Law enforcement officials who briefed multiple
news organisations said investigators were exploring possible
additional motives, including workplace tensions over religion.
Two weeks ago Kuuleme Stephens heard a heated argument when she phoned
Thalasinos, a friend, at work. Farook said Thasalinos did not
understand Islam, prompting Thalasinos to lament that he did not know
how to talk to his colleague, Stephens told the Associated Press. The
day before he was killed, Thalasinos posted on his Facebook page that
he had received a threatening message from a man he described as an
antisemitic brain surgeon named “Med Ali Zarouk” from Ukraine.
The message stated that Thalasinos would never succeed in making a
“country for Jews” and ended by saying “soon you ll get your ass
kicked, you will die and never see israel as country believe me
never”. Thalasinos responded in the same post that his new hobby was
“blocking pagan antisemitic troglodytes”. He also noted that an
earlier message from another person was far worse.
Thalasinos often posted impassioned comments on a range of topics,
including politics and religion. He criticised everyone from Barack
Obama to “Iranian fascists”, lamented the lack of biblical teachings
in schools and declared global warming a farce. Friends and relatives
said that away from his computer Thalasinos was warm and generous. San
Bernardino Valley College student Jaclynn Moore, a San Bernardino
Valley College student who lives next door to his house in Colton,
expressed disbelief when she learned of his death on Friday.
“This hits too close to home,” Moore, 34, said. She described
Thalasinos as a sweet and friendly gentleman who wore colourful
outfits – bright red or purple shirts, a pair of suspenders and a
black hat. She nicknamed him Superman because he would heave heavy
boxes of bottled water into her house, an appreciated gesture because
she has a lung condition. “It’s just devastating that I connect with
somebody and got to know somebody and then this happens,” she said.
Moore described Thalasinos and his wife as quiet, kind people. “The
world is a darker place now that Nick isn’t in it,” she said. By
Friday a crowdfunding campaign to help pay for funeral costs for
Thalasinos had raised almost $12,000.
http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/dec/05/san-bernardino-victim-had-argued-with-shooter-about-islam
Nicholas Thalasinos was a colleague of gunman Syed Farook, and wrote
fiery posts online denouncing Muslims
by Yvette Cabrera, Rory Carroll and Tom Dart in San Bernardino
5 December 2015, the Guardian
Friends and family have described Nicholas Thalasinos, one of the 14
people slaughtered in San Bernardino, as a devoted father, husband and
colleague, a dedicated health inspector, colourful dresser and
outspoken conservative.
But as detectives investigate Wednesday’s rampage, seeking clues about
the killers’ motives, his widow, Jennifer, says she believes he was
also a martyr. Thalasinos died at the hands of Syed Farook and
Tashfeen Malik, a married couple who opened fire in the Inland
Regional Center, a social services agency where Farook worked.
Farook, 28, and Malik were Muslims and Thalasinos, a Messianic Jew,
took issue with Islam. He wrote fiery posts online and used a
derogatory term to describe Muslims. He had also argued with Farook, a
fellow health inspector.
Their relationship came under scrutiny on Friday when lawyers for
Farook’s family cited workplace tension as a possible factor in the
country’s deadliest mass shooting in three years. “Someone made fun of
his beard. He was a very isolated, introverted individual with really
no friends that we could identify,” David Chesley told a news
conference in Los Angeles.
Farook had mentioned the teasing to his family, said Mohammad
Abuershaid, another attorney. The lawyers mentioned “intolerance” and
a “disgruntled colleague” at Farook’s workplace but did not elaborate.
Thalasinos’s widow told the New York Post on Thursday her husband was
“anti-Muslim” and “probably had plenty to say” to Farook. “I’m sure
everybody has seen his Facebook page. He’s very outspoken about
Islamic terrorism and how he feels about politics in the state of the
country,” she said. The FBI has called the atrocity an act of
terrorism and there are reports Malik, 29 – a Pakistani national who
met her husband in Saudi Arabia – pledged allegiance to Islamic State.
However, the agency said there was no indication they were part of an
larger organised group. Law enforcement officials who briefed multiple
news organisations said investigators were exploring possible
additional motives, including workplace tensions over religion.
Two weeks ago Kuuleme Stephens heard a heated argument when she phoned
Thalasinos, a friend, at work. Farook said Thasalinos did not
understand Islam, prompting Thalasinos to lament that he did not know
how to talk to his colleague, Stephens told the Associated Press. The
day before he was killed, Thalasinos posted on his Facebook page that
he had received a threatening message from a man he described as an
antisemitic brain surgeon named “Med Ali Zarouk” from Ukraine.
The message stated that Thalasinos would never succeed in making a
“country for Jews” and ended by saying “soon you ll get your ass
kicked, you will die and never see israel as country believe me
never”. Thalasinos responded in the same post that his new hobby was
“blocking pagan antisemitic troglodytes”. He also noted that an
earlier message from another person was far worse.
Thalasinos often posted impassioned comments on a range of topics,
including politics and religion. He criticised everyone from Barack
Obama to “Iranian fascists”, lamented the lack of biblical teachings
in schools and declared global warming a farce. Friends and relatives
said that away from his computer Thalasinos was warm and generous. San
Bernardino Valley College student Jaclynn Moore, a San Bernardino
Valley College student who lives next door to his house in Colton,
expressed disbelief when she learned of his death on Friday.
“This hits too close to home,” Moore, 34, said. She described
Thalasinos as a sweet and friendly gentleman who wore colourful
outfits – bright red or purple shirts, a pair of suspenders and a
black hat. She nicknamed him Superman because he would heave heavy
boxes of bottled water into her house, an appreciated gesture because
she has a lung condition. “It’s just devastating that I connect with
somebody and got to know somebody and then this happens,” she said.
Moore described Thalasinos and his wife as quiet, kind people. “The
world is a darker place now that Nick isn’t in it,” she said. By
Friday a crowdfunding campaign to help pay for funeral costs for
Thalasinos had raised almost $12,000.
http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/dec/05/san-bernardino-victim-had-argued-with-shooter-about-islam
Charlie M. 1958
Dec 7, 2015, 8:24:08 AM12/7/15
to
On 12/7/2015 2:12 AM, dav...@agent.com wrote:
> San Bernardino shooting victim 'had argued with killer about Islam'
<snip for space>
> San Bernardino shooting victim 'had argued with killer about Islam'
> http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/dec/05/san-bernardino-victim-had-argued-with-shooter-about-islam
>
When I heard about this aspect of the case, my immediate thought was
that the whole thing might have stemmed from a personal argument over
religion. Then came reporting of terrorist ties and advanced planning,
so I don't know.
But one thing that seems obvious is that people with anger issues and/or
other antisocial tendencies, who also happen to be Muslim, have the
perfect outlet in their religion to rationalize violent acts. I don't
mean this as a condemnation of Islam. What I /am/ saying is that Islam
and mental instability are a very dangerous combination.
Skeezix LaRocca
Dec 7, 2015, 9:10:11 AM12/7/15
to
On 12/07/2015 08:24 AM, Charlie M. 1958 wrote:
>
> When I heard about this aspect of the case, my immediate thought was
> that the whole thing might have stemmed from a personal argument over
> religion. Then came reporting of terrorist ties and advanced planning,
> so I don't know.
>
> But one thing that seems obvious is that people with anger issues and/or
> other antisocial tendencies, who also happen to be Muslim, have the
> perfect outlet in their religion to rationalize violent acts. I don't
> mean this as a condemnation of Islam. What I /am/ saying is that Islam
> and mental instability are a very dangerous combination.
I would agree wholeheartedly...Also, I don't think it's just Islam...I
>
> When I heard about this aspect of the case, my immediate thought was
> that the whole thing might have stemmed from a personal argument over
> religion. Then came reporting of terrorist ties and advanced planning,
> so I don't know.
>
> But one thing that seems obvious is that people with anger issues and/or
> other antisocial tendencies, who also happen to be Muslim, have the
> perfect outlet in their religion to rationalize violent acts. I don't
> mean this as a condemnation of Islam. What I /am/ saying is that Islam
> and mental instability are a very dangerous combination.
really believe you could get the same results out of Christians in this
country, if the nutbar bible thumpers got their way and turned our
secular nation into what they believe is *Christian* .
When you take any group of people living in the margins of a society,
it's not a huge leap to convince them that the blame for their less than
ideal life lies at the feet of the Godless hordes.
It seems like all they have to do is get them in the tent, then focus on
the window lickers among them.
--
Freedom of religion is great, but I'll take freedom FROM it any day.
Robert McGregor
Dec 7, 2015, 9:39:55 AM12/7/15
to
combination?
Heard an interesting "fact" on Aus Govt funded radio
http://www.abc.net.au/sundaynights/stories/s4367000.htm
As opposed to "mainstream" Christianity (and most Christian sects),
where *all* clerics are ultimately answerable to the head honcho, such
organizational cohesion does not exist in Islam.
If that "fact" is true, Islam, as it is today, cannot bring itself to a
position of multicultural social responsibility the way Christian
churches have been dragged, albeit with incredible difficulty, over the
last half century or so.
Unless Islam gets it's act together, and even nominally imposes a
socially responsible structure on itself; whatever atrocities are
committed in the name of Islam are and will remain Islamic -
irrespective of what apologists may claim.
http://preview.tinyurl.com/htwwm4t
"When politicians, academics, journalists and muftis repeat the mantra
that the massacres of innocents by Muslims does not represent Islam,
they are promoting one of the great lies of our times.
President Barack Obama is the chief and serial perpetrator of this lie.
He repeated the pattern on Friday and Saturday, after the massacre in
San Bernadino, in which two Muslims methodically planned and carried out
a Paris-style massacre that left 35 people dead or wounded."
Charlie M. 1958
Dec 7, 2015, 9:47:24 AM12/7/15
to
carefully.
When I said "I don't mean this as a condemnation of Islam", I really
meant "I don't mean this as a condemnation of all Muslims."
Socrates
Dec 7, 2015, 10:15:58 AM12/7/15
to
On 12/7/2015 5:24 AM, Charlie M. 1958 wrote:
> On 12/7/2015 2:12 AM, dav...@agent.com wrote:
>> San Bernardino shooting victim 'had argued with killer about Islam'
>
> <snip for space>
>
>> http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/dec/05/san-bernardino-victim-had-argued-with-shooter-about-islam
> When I heard about this aspect of the case, my immediate thought was
> that the whole thing might have stemmed from a personal argument over
> religion. Then came reporting of terrorist ties and advanced planning,
> so I don't know.
Same here.
> On 12/7/2015 2:12 AM, dav...@agent.com wrote:
>> San Bernardino shooting victim 'had argued with killer about Islam'
>
> <snip for space>
>
>> http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/dec/05/san-bernardino-victim-had-argued-with-shooter-about-islam
> When I heard about this aspect of the case, my immediate thought was
> that the whole thing might have stemmed from a personal argument over
> religion. Then came reporting of terrorist ties and advanced planning,
> so I don't know.
> But one thing that seems obvious is that people with anger issues and/or
> other antisocial tendencies, who also happen to be Muslim, have the
> perfect outlet in their religion to rationalize violent acts. I don't
> mean this as a condemnation of Islam. What I /am/ saying is that Islam
> and mental instability are a very dangerous combination.
combination, especially when you add one further element:
http://s18.postimg.org/a09v3n8nd/Shells.png
CW
Dec 7, 2015, 10:17:33 AM12/7/15
to
On 07 Dec 2015 Charlie M. 1958 wrote:
<snip>
> But one thing that seems obvious is that people with anger issues and/or
> other antisocial tendencies, who also happen to be Muslim, have the
> perfect outlet in their religion to rationalize violent acts. I don't
> mean this as a condemnation of Islam. What I /am/ saying is that Islam
> and mental instability are a very dangerous combination.
>
So, I suppose it's a *good* thing then, that Fred is so rabidly
anti-Muslim, else....
<snip>
> But one thing that seems obvious is that people with anger issues and/or
> other antisocial tendencies, who also happen to be Muslim, have the
> perfect outlet in their religion to rationalize violent acts. I don't
> mean this as a condemnation of Islam. What I /am/ saying is that Islam
> and mental instability are a very dangerous combination.
>
anti-Muslim, else....
Charlie M. 1958
Dec 7, 2015, 12:06:17 PM12/7/15
to
On 12/7/2015 9:18 AM, Socrates wrote:
> /Any/ belief system combined with mental instability is a dangerous
> combination, especially when you add one further element:
>
> http://s18.postimg.org/a09v3n8nd/Shells.png
>
I agree. BUT... when you go to my point of using religion to rationalize
> /Any/ belief system combined with mental instability is a dangerous
> combination, especially when you add one further element:
>
> http://s18.postimg.org/a09v3n8nd/Shells.png
>
violent behavior, I can't help believing it's much easier to do that
with Islam than it is with Christianity. And I certainly don't have a
horse in the race when I say that. :-)
Granted, if a person is deranged enough, /anything/ might seem to them
like a good reason for violent behavior. But to a /somewhat/ more
rational person, there is nothing in the teachings of Christianity that
advocates killing others strictly for being non-Christians. Neither are
there any organized terrorist groups of Christians (that I'm aware of)
who advocate killing non-Christians.
Robert McGregor
Dec 7, 2015, 12:44:56 PM12/7/15
to
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/africa/tens-of-thousands-of-muslims-flee-christian-militias-in-central-african-republic/2014/02/07/5a1adbb2-9032-11e3-84e1-27626c5ef5fb_story.html
http://preview.tinyurl.com/oh9x672
Have you also forgotten that the Christian Bible probably equals the
Koran with atrocities, if motivation is what one is seeking?
I do suspect Protestant preachers spend so much time wallowing in the
Old Testament it would flabbergast ex RC's such as yourself.
--
"Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not
come to bring peace, but a sword. Matthew 10:34
Socrates
Dec 7, 2015, 1:04:12 PM12/7/15
to
anything said that is followed by the word: "BUT." <eg>
Notice I didn't say "religious" belief system. "Mental derangement" is
coupled with all sorts of /beliefs/ systems and otherwise. Mass murder
has to be at least /temporary/ insanity.
Snippets from a piece I read at breakfast:
"Contrary to popular belief, mental illness by itself is not a leading
contributor to interpersonal firearm violence," Dr. Garen J. Wintemute,
a longtime UC Davis gun violence researcher, wrote in a recent report.
"Severe mental illness is a risk factor, but the risk is small,"
Wintemute told me. "Age and sex — young men — are much higher risk factors."
The mentally ill always have been convenient culprits, if you listened
to the weapon worshipers. There has been no indication, however, that
the two San Bernardino assassins — Syed Rizwan Farook, 28, and Tashfeen
Malik, 29 — were clinical cases.
True, they were Muslims. But there is roughly one mass shooting — four
or more victims — each day in America. And here's betting that few of
the assailants are Muslim and most were raised Christian. The common
denominator is that they were all blazing away with guns, the preferred
killing tool.
America has only 4.5% of the world's population but 41.5% of its
civilian-owned firearms. We have by far the highest gun ownership rate
on Earth. What results is no surprise: No other developed nation comes
close in firearms fatalities.
http://touch.latimes.com/#section/-1/article/p2p-85249295/
Sharx35
Dec 7, 2015, 1:48:59 PM12/7/15
to
"Robert McGregor" wrote in message news:n445np$ap1$1...@news.albasani.net...
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Well put! A big thanks to all the naive lefties and other LIEbrawls who
voted for him.
Dumb. Dumb. Dumb. Then, there are his idiotic ramblings about so-called
climate
change and how, thanks, to his dumb droolings about pipelines, he has
seriously
damaged relations with Canada. Facts are that pipelines are far safer than
rail
when it comes to moving petrochemicals. Just like how airline travel is
safer than
driving but when an incident happens, of course, it is major news.
Well put! A big thanks to all the naive lefties and other LIEbrawls who
voted for him.
Dumb. Dumb. Dumb. Then, there are his idiotic ramblings about so-called
climate
change and how, thanks, to his dumb droolings about pipelines, he has
seriously
damaged relations with Canada. Facts are that pipelines are far safer than
rail
when it comes to moving petrochemicals. Just like how airline travel is
safer than
driving but when an incident happens, of course, it is major news.
Sharx35
Dec 7, 2015, 1:50:17 PM12/7/15
to
"CW" wrote in message news:XnsA5695E...@94.75.214.39...
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Other religions have evolved since 600 A.D.. Islam has not.
Other religions have evolved since 600 A.D.. Islam has not.
Sharx35
Dec 7, 2015, 1:52:13 PM12/7/15
to
"Charlie M. 1958" wrote in message news:n44e5k$ibn$1...@dont-email.me...
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
LIEbrawls love to harp on and on about the so-called Christian Crusades
of almost 1000 years ago. That was then. This is now.
LIEbrawls love to harp on and on about the so-called Christian Crusades
of almost 1000 years ago. That was then. This is now.
Sharx35
Dec 7, 2015, 1:55:11 PM12/7/15
to
"Socrates" wrote in message news:n44hi8$1a5$1...@dont-email.me...
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
That being the case, you'd love it up here in Canada, Frank.
Thanks to a bunch of clueless voters in central and eastern Canada,
we now have a federal government run by a bunch of naive saps.
But, hey, firearm ownership is way less than in the Excited States.
Of course, it does get a mite cold here, this time of year.
That being the case, you'd love it up here in Canada, Frank.
Thanks to a bunch of clueless voters in central and eastern Canada,
we now have a federal government run by a bunch of naive saps.
But, hey, firearm ownership is way less than in the Excited States.
Of course, it does get a mite cold here, this time of year.
Charlie M. 1958
Dec 7, 2015, 2:11:04 PM12/7/15
to
On 12/7/2015 12:06 PM, Socrates wrote:
> The mentally ill always have been convenient culprits, if you listened
> to the weapon worshipers. There has been no indication, however, that
> the two San Bernardino assassins — Syed Rizwan Farook, 28, and Tashfeen
> Malik, 29 — were clinical cases.
>
> True, they were Muslims. But there is roughly one mass shooting — four
> or more victims — each day in America. And here's betting that few of
> the assailants are Muslim and most were raised Christian. The common
> denominator is that they were all blazing away with guns, the preferred
> killing tool.
>
> America has only 4.5% of the world's population but 41.5% of its
> civilian-owned firearms. We have by far the highest gun ownership rate
> on Earth. What results is no surprise: No other developed nation comes
> close in firearms fatalities.
>
> http://touch.latimes.com/#section/-1/article/p2p-85249295/
>
>
Now you're getting off onto a firearms tangent, which goes more to
> The mentally ill always have been convenient culprits, if you listened
> to the weapon worshipers. There has been no indication, however, that
> the two San Bernardino assassins — Syed Rizwan Farook, 28, and Tashfeen
> Malik, 29 — were clinical cases.
>
> True, they were Muslims. But there is roughly one mass shooting — four
> or more victims — each day in America. And here's betting that few of
> the assailants are Muslim and most were raised Christian. The common
> denominator is that they were all blazing away with guns, the preferred
> killing tool.
>
> America has only 4.5% of the world's population but 41.5% of its
> civilian-owned firearms. We have by far the highest gun ownership rate
> on Earth. What results is no surprise: No other developed nation comes
> close in firearms fatalities.
>
> http://touch.latimes.com/#section/-1/article/p2p-85249295/
>
>
/facility/ than motivation and rationalization, which my post was about.
Remember, I didn't start off talking about severe mental illness. I
mentioned "people with anger issues and/or other antisocial tendencies."
I did use the term "mental instability", but for purposes of this
discussion, I would call /anyone/ willing to carry out premeditated
murder "mentally unstable".
If Farook and Malik were not clinical cases of mental illness, what was
their motivation? The two obvious possibilities are a) anger based on
Farook's religious arguments with his coworker, or b) they were simply
carrying out a radical Muslim agenda.
If the answer is "b", they are just two more terrorists. But if the
answer is "a", why did they kill a whole room full of people who had
nothing to do with this argument between coworkers? My point was merely
to speculate that an angry Muslim might find it easy to be drawn into a
jihad mentality, even though that anger was sparked by something other
than a desire for Islamic world domination.
Crusades and history aside, there are no radical Christian organizations
as violent and well-organized as ISIS, Boko Haram, or Al Qaeda with
which an angry Christian might align himself with in order to
rationalize acting out on his anger.
JoeRaisin
Dec 7, 2015, 2:43:59 PM12/7/15
to
On 12/7/2015 12:44 PM, Robert McGregor wrote:
> On 08/12/15 03:06, Charlie M. 1958 wrote:
>> On 12/7/2015 9:18 AM, Socrates wrote:
>>
>>> /Any/ belief system combined with mental instability is a dangerous
>>> combination, especially when you add one further element:
>>>
>>> http://s18.postimg.org/a09v3n8nd/Shells.png
>>>
>>
>> I agree. BUT... when you go to my point of using religion to
>> rationalize violent behavior, I can't help believing it's much
>> easier to do that with Islam than it is with Christianity. And I
>> certainly don't have a horse in the race when I say that. :-)
>>
>> Granted, if a person is deranged enough, /anything/ might seem to
>> them like a good reason for violent behavior. But to a /somewhat/
>> more rational person, there is nothing in the teachings of
>> Christianity that advocates killing others strictly for being
>> non-Christians. Neither are there any organized terrorist groups of
>> Christians (that I'm aware of) who advocate killing non-Christians.
>
> You think the Christian Crusades have been easily forgotten?
> https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/africa/tens-of-thousands-of-muslim
> s-flee-christian-militias-in-central-african-republic/2014/02/07/5a1adbb2-
> 9032-11e3-84e1-27626c5ef5fb_story.html
>
> http://preview.tinyurl.com/oh9x672
>
Do we have to go back two years to find Muslim on Christian violence?
> On 08/12/15 03:06, Charlie M. 1958 wrote:
>> On 12/7/2015 9:18 AM, Socrates wrote:
>>
>>> /Any/ belief system combined with mental instability is a dangerous
>>> combination, especially when you add one further element:
>>>
>>> http://s18.postimg.org/a09v3n8nd/Shells.png
>>>
>>
>> I agree. BUT... when you go to my point of using religion to
>> rationalize violent behavior, I can't help believing it's much
>> easier to do that with Islam than it is with Christianity. And I
>> certainly don't have a horse in the race when I say that. :-)
>>
>> Granted, if a person is deranged enough, /anything/ might seem to
>> them like a good reason for violent behavior. But to a /somewhat/
>> more rational person, there is nothing in the teachings of
>> Christianity that advocates killing others strictly for being
>> non-Christians. Neither are there any organized terrorist groups of
>> Christians (that I'm aware of) who advocate killing non-Christians.
>
> You think the Christian Crusades have been easily forgotten?
> https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/africa/tens-of-thousands-of-muslim
> s-flee-christian-militias-in-central-african-republic/2014/02/07/5a1adbb2-
> 9032-11e3-84e1-27626c5ef5fb_story.html
>
> http://preview.tinyurl.com/oh9x672
>
Crusades or self defense?
[begin quote]
Djotodia’s departure weakened the former Muslim rebels, known as Seleka,
who carried out deadly attacks on Christians after they grabbed power in
March, prompting the birth of Christian militias called the anti-balaka,
or “anti-machete” in the local Sango language. The armed vigilantes have
used the power vacuum to step up assaults on Muslims.
[end quote]
Don't worry your pretty little head about it, though, The Muslims are
out of this fight yet.
In September of this year Muslims unleashed automatic weapons fire that
killed or wounded 121 Christians in one neighborhood.
Prior to the exodus outlined in the nearly two year old article, there
were several incidents of violence against Christians and about three
months after it was published, Muslims stormed a Christian church with
guns murdering 30 and inadvertently leaving 10 survivors.
In most of the incidents, before and after, the Muslims used automatic
firearms. So the Muslims have and have had firearms (automatic weapons
no less), yet the Christians drove them all out of the country (for
three months) using only machetes...
Christians over there must be some real bad-asses, because I have it on
good authority from right here in this very news group that machetes,
knives, bats and such are jokes of weapons and you really can't hurt
anyone with them - if you want to hurt or intimidate a large number of
people, you HAVE to have a firearm.
Maybe in this country.
> Have you also forgotten that the Christian Bible probably equals the
> Koran with atrocities, if motivation is what one is seeking?
>
> I do suspect Protestant preachers spend so much time wallowing in the
> Old Testament it would flabbergast ex RC's such as yourself.
>
bombing or shooting at a planned parenthood clinic, every Christian
priest, pastor or reverend stands in silent support and their
congregation celebrate by dancing in the streets.
Oh, wait - that doesn't happen...
--
Narcissistic control freaks always consider their perceptions and
opinions to be obvious and true.
- Frank "Socrates"
JoeRaisin
Dec 7, 2015, 3:05:48 PM12/7/15
to
On 12/7/2015 1:06 PM, Socrates wrote:
>
> Notice I didn't say "religious" belief system. "Mental derangement" is
> coupled with all sorts of /beliefs/ systems and otherwise.
Like the Mossad perpetrated 9/11?
>
> Notice I didn't say "religious" belief system. "Mental derangement" is
> coupled with all sorts of /beliefs/ systems and otherwise.
>
> Snippets from a piece I read at breakfast:
>
> "Contrary to popular belief, mental illness by itself is not a leading
> contributor to interpersonal firearm violence," Dr. Garen J. Wintemute,
> a longtime UC Davis gun violence researcher, wrote in a recent report.
>
> "Severe mental illness is a risk factor, but the risk is small,"
> Wintemute told me. "Age and sex — young men — are much higher risk
> factors."
>
> The mentally ill always have been convenient culprits, if you listened
> to the weapon worshipers. There has been no indication, however, that
> the two San Bernardino assassins — Syed Rizwan Farook, 28, and Tashfeen
> Malik, 29 — were clinical cases.
that negates the entire argument?
Only if you were already on board with this insane mindset and are
incapable of looking at anything objectively.
>
> True, they were Muslims. But there is roughly one mass shooting — four
> or more victims — each day in America. And here's betting that few of
> the assailants are Muslim and most were raised Christian. The common
> denominator is that they were all blazing away with guns, the preferred
> killing tool.
been done even without firearms (9/11 occurred without use of firearms)
they refer only to mass "shooting" and then make it sound like some
revelation that the preferred weapon among mass "shooters" is guns.
Up next... stabbers prefer knives and garroters prefer garrotes... If
you had to be told that, you might also like to know that water is wet
and fire is in flames...
>
> America has only 4.5% of the world's population but 41.5% of its
> civilian-owned firearms. We have by far the highest gun ownership rate
> on Earth. What results is no surprise: No other developed nation comes
> close in firearms fatalities
>
>
>
I posted the entire article earlier with bullshit flags spread throughout...
For such an astute observer/mind reader who is without bias and always
the smartest person in the room, I'm surprised you missed it.
Robert McGregor
Dec 7, 2015, 3:11:12 PM12/7/15
to
Socrates
Dec 7, 2015, 3:56:15 PM12/7/15
to
because I see them as inseparable. The subject line mentions a dispute
about religion but it ended in a blaze of gunfire.
The cartoon caption (which I added from another source) was: Variables
such as political ideology, religious fervor and mental illness are
motivating factors, but death comes from the gun."
The followup from my morning paper underscored that point: "The common
denominator is that they were all blazing away with guns, the preferred
killing tool," and that (no surprise), statistics shows that "much
higher risk factors" are found among young men.
Bottom line: It's about testosterone, stupidity, and GUNS (especially
guns like AK-47's that are being used precisely for what they were
designed).
The statistics for gun violence in America are informative: "There is
roughly one mass shooting (four or more victims) each day in America.
From link:
"I've thought a lot about it and have come down to this," says
Wintemute, an emergency room physician who has treated countless gunshot
wounds. "We know there's a predisposition to use high-capacity weapons
in mass shootings. But we, as a country, have made a series of policy
decisions to make those weapons available to the widest number of people."
Dr. Jew Zeuss
Dec 7, 2015, 8:31:58 PM12/7/15
to
JoeRaisin
Dec 8, 2015, 5:17:44 AM12/8/15
to
On 12/7/2015 3:11 PM, Robert McGregor wrote:
> Narcissistic control freaks always consider their perceptions and
> opinions to be obvious and true.
>
>
Do you consider that perception and opinion to be obvious and true?
> Narcissistic control freaks always consider their perceptions and
> opinions to be obvious and true.
>
>
--
Narcissistic control freaks always consider their perceptions and
opinions to be obvious and true.
- Frank "Socrates"
opinions to be obvious and true.
JoeRaisin
Dec 8, 2015, 5:29:40 AM12/8/15
to
On 12/7/2015 3:58 PM, Socrates wrote:
>
> The cartoon caption (which I added from another source) was: Variables
> such as political ideology, religious fervor and mental illness are
> motivating factors, but death comes from the gun."
>
What about bombs? Can death come from a bomb? How about a Molotov
>
> The cartoon caption (which I added from another source) was: Variables
> such as political ideology, religious fervor and mental illness are
> motivating factors, but death comes from the gun."
>
cocktail? Hammers... is there any way a hammer can kill? Just seems
there are more ways to cause death than a gun... but, hey... I've been
wrong before...
Someone should let all them folks decapitated by Muslims that they
aren't really dead since they were only pretend killed by a blade and
not REALLY killed by a gun.
And those crusades that Christian bashers love to go on about must
couldn't have been as bad as generally portrayed since they didn't have
guns...
Robert McGregor
Dec 8, 2015, 6:00:50 AM12/8/15
to
On 08/12/15 20:17, JoeRaisin wrote:
> On 12/7/2015 3:11 PM, Robert McGregor wrote:
>
>> Narcissistic control freaks always consider their perceptions and
>> opinions to be obvious and true.
>>
>>
>
> Do you consider that perception and opinion to be obvious and true?
>
I'm inclined to think it is so; when the perception pertains to you.
> On 12/7/2015 3:11 PM, Robert McGregor wrote:
>
>> Narcissistic control freaks always consider their perceptions and
>> opinions to be obvious and true.
>>
>>
>
> Do you consider that perception and opinion to be obvious and true?
>
--
“The trouble with our times is that the future is not what it used to
be.” ...Paul Valery
JoeRaisin
Dec 8, 2015, 6:18:54 AM12/8/15
to
On 12/8/2015 6:00 AM, Robert McGregor wrote:
> On 08/12/15 20:17, JoeRaisin wrote:
>> On 12/7/2015 3:11 PM, Robert McGregor wrote:
>>
>>> Narcissistic control freaks always consider their perceptions and
>>> opinions to be obvious and true.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Do you consider that perception and opinion to be obvious and true?
>>
>
> I'm inclined to think it is so; when the perception pertains to you.
>
The perception is one thing... what about the opinion?
> On 08/12/15 20:17, JoeRaisin wrote:
>> On 12/7/2015 3:11 PM, Robert McGregor wrote:
>>
>>> Narcissistic control freaks always consider their perceptions and
>>> opinions to be obvious and true.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Do you consider that perception and opinion to be obvious and true?
>>
>
> I'm inclined to think it is so; when the perception pertains to you.
>
--
Narcissistic control freaks always consider their perceptions and
opinions to be obvious and true.
- Frank "Socrates"
opinions to be obvious and true.
Robert McGregor
Dec 8, 2015, 6:32:47 AM12/8/15
to
On 08/12/15 21:18, JoeRaisin wrote:
> On 12/8/2015 6:00 AM, Robert McGregor wrote:
>> On 08/12/15 20:17, JoeRaisin wrote:
>>> On 12/7/2015 3:11 PM, Robert McGregor wrote:
>>>
>>>> Narcissistic control freaks always consider their perceptions and
>>>> opinions to be obvious and true.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> Do you consider that perception and opinion to be obvious and true?
>>>
>>
>> I'm inclined to think it is so; when the perception pertains to you.
>>
>
> The perception is one thing... what about the opinion?
>
The opinion is another thing?
> On 12/8/2015 6:00 AM, Robert McGregor wrote:
>> On 08/12/15 20:17, JoeRaisin wrote:
>>> On 12/7/2015 3:11 PM, Robert McGregor wrote:
>>>
>>>> Narcissistic control freaks always consider their perceptions and
>>>> opinions to be obvious and true.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> Do you consider that perception and opinion to be obvious and true?
>>>
>>
>> I'm inclined to think it is so; when the perception pertains to you.
>>
>
> The perception is one thing... what about the opinion?
>
JoeRaisin
Dec 8, 2015, 6:53:06 PM12/8/15
to
On 12/8/2015 6:32 AM, Robert McGregor wrote:
> On 08/12/15 21:18, JoeRaisin wrote:
>> On 12/8/2015 6:00 AM, Robert McGregor wrote:
>>> On 08/12/15 20:17, JoeRaisin wrote:
>>>> On 12/7/2015 3:11 PM, Robert McGregor wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Narcissistic control freaks always consider their perceptions and
>>>>> opinions to be obvious and true.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Do you consider that perception and opinion to be obvious and true?
>>>>
>>>
>>> I'm inclined to think it is so; when the perception pertains to you.
>>>
>>
>> The perception is one thing... what about the opinion?
>>
>
> The opinion is another thing?
>
LOL- Well.... That's my opinion... I could be wrong
> On 08/12/15 21:18, JoeRaisin wrote:
>> On 12/8/2015 6:00 AM, Robert McGregor wrote:
>>> On 08/12/15 20:17, JoeRaisin wrote:
>>>> On 12/7/2015 3:11 PM, Robert McGregor wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Narcissistic control freaks always consider their perceptions and
>>>>> opinions to be obvious and true.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Do you consider that perception and opinion to be obvious and true?
>>>>
>>>
>>> I'm inclined to think it is so; when the perception pertains to you.
>>>
>>
>> The perception is one thing... what about the opinion?
>>
>
> The opinion is another thing?
>
--
Narcissistic control freaks always consider their perceptions and
opinions to be obvious and true.
- Frank "Socrates"
opinions to be obvious and true.
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