Time To Get DEADLY Serious With The NRA! U.S. Government Is Afraid To Stop Gun-Nuts At All Levels!
Sarah "DaffyDumbShit" Palin
ever to be rescued from the NRA's political "influence," gun-control
advocates will have to take a two-step page from the anti-
abortionists:
1) Target NRA heads; top 40 national-level-politicians receiving NRA
contributions; and owners of the largest outlaw gun stores. Then ...
2) Assassinate 'em!
Fear is the NRA's and the gun-huggers' worst enemy.
---------------------------
"NRA-led gun lobby wields powerful influence over ATF, U.S. politics"
By Sari Horwitz and James V. Grimaldi
Washington Post Staff Writers
Wednesday, December 15, 2010; 12:00 AM
Behind the scenes, federal agents in charge of stopping gun
trafficking to Mexico have quietly advanced a plan to help stem the
smuggling of high-powered AK-47s and AR-15s to the bloody drug war
south of the border.
The controversial proposal by officials at the Bureau of Alcohol,
Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives calls for a measure strongly opposed
by the National Rifle Association: requiring gun dealers to report
multiple sales of rifles and shotguns to ATF.
The gun issue is so incendiary and fear of the NRA so great that the
ATF plan languished for months at the Justice Department, according to
some senior law enforcement officials who spoke on the condition of
anonymity but would not provide details.
The NRA got wind of the idea last month and warned its 4 million
members in a "grassroots alert" that the administration might try to
go around Congress to get such a plan enacted as an executive order or
rule.
An ATF spokesman declined to comment about the matter. Attorney
General Eric H. Holder Jr. declined to be interviewed. Matt Miller, a
spokesman for the Justice Department, said "the administration
continues to support common-sense measures to stem gun violence."
In the past few days, the plan has quietly gained traction at Justice.
But sources told The Post they fear that if the plan becomes public,
the NRA will marshal its forces to kill it.
Such is the power of the NRA. With annual revenue of about $250
million, the group has for four decades been the strongest force
shaping the nation's gun laws.
The fate of the Mexican gunrunning rule is only the most recent
example of how the gun lobby has consistently outmaneuvered and hemmed
in ATF, using political muscle to intimidate lawmakers and erect
barriers to tougher gun laws. Over nearly four decades, the NRA has
wielded remarkable influence over Congress, persuading lawmakers to
curb ATF's budget and mission and to call agency officials to account
at oversight hearings. The source of the NRA's power is its focus on
one issue and its ability to get pro-gun candidates elected.
The result is that a president such as Obama, whose campaign platform
called for tougher gun laws, finds his freedom of action
circumscribed. The issue has bedeviled Democrats for years, especially
after defeats in the 1994 midterms and the 2000 presidential election,
in which Al Gore lost his home state of Tennessee.
"That was the shift of the tectonic plate for the Democrats on the gun
issue," said James Cavanaugh, former ATF special agent in charge in
Nashville. "The thing that really, really, really scared the Democrats
was Al Gore losing his home state, and the reason was the gun issue.
They all know it."
The gun lobbyists are well aware of their power. "The White House is
sensitized enough to understand it really is the third rail of
American politics," said Richard Feldman, a former lobbyist for the
NRA and a gun industry trade representative who has discussed gun
policy with White House officials. "They have figured out that it is a
lightning-rod issue, and they don't want it to injure them."
Led by Executive Vice President Wayne LaPierre, who was paid $1.26
million in 2008, the NRA in the past two decades has spent more than
$100 million on political activities in the United States, according
to documents and interviews, including $22 million on lobbying and
nearly $75 million on campaigns.
Only two groups have spent more on campaigns since 1989 - the Service
Employees International Union and the American Federation of State,
County and Municipal Employees, according to a review of campaign
financing by The Washington Post.
In this year's midterm elections, 80 percent of the 307 House and
Senate backed by the NRA were victorious, a Post analysis of the NRA's
endorsements shows. About half of incoming House members got NRA
backing, the analysis shows. In the Senate, the NRA says the number of
A-rated senators is now 50.
NRA officials say their efforts protect the rights of gun owners. "We
don't represent criminals who misuse firearms," said Chris W. Cox,
director of the NRA's Institute for Legislative Action. "We don't
represent dealers who willfully and knowingly violate the law. We
represent honest, law-abiding people, including honest dealers who are
often targeted in an unfortunate way."
Last year, the NRA perturbed ATF agents by sending dealers an article
by an industry lawyer. "You never, ever have to speak to an ATF agent
or inspector," the article said. "You have the absolute right not to
answer any questions that an inspector may pose to you."
Another reason morale is low, ATF agents say, is the firearms bureau
has been without a permanent director since 2006, when Congress
required the position to be confirmed by the Senate. The effect was to
give the gun lobby power to block a director - one senator can hold up
any nomination, and the Senate needs 60 votes to overcome that
opposition.
Last month, about two weeks after the midterm elections, Obama
nominated a director: Andrew Traver, special agent in charge of ATF's
Chicago field division.
The NRA strongly opposes Traver because he is "deeply aligned with gun
control advocates and anti-gun activities," an NRA news release said.
The group cited his work with the Gun Violence Reduction Project, a
nationwide initiative of police chiefs, and the Joyce Foundation,
which promotes stricter gun laws.
With the NRA in opposition, Traver's nomination is unlikely to be
approved by Congress.
"It is clearly the most powerful lobby in the United States," said
William Vizzard, a former ATF agent who is now a criminal-justice
professor in California. "The NRA has shaped gun policy and shaped the
ATF."
The NRA's shift
Don Davis, 77, has run Don's Guns and Galleries in Indianapolis for 37
years and says he is one of the highest-volume dealers in the region.
A big supporter of the Second Amendment right to bear arms, Davis
resigned from the NRA many years ago. "They used to be an organization
for the hunter and the fishermen," he said recently. "Then they got
into politics. They're so political, that's what they do with their
money. Today if you say anything about a gun, they use their money to
run against you."
The story of how a group created in 1871 to sharpen the marksmanship
of soldiers transformed into a modern political juggernaut begins
after serious gun control gained momentum in the United States
following the assassinations of John F. Kennedy, Robert F. Kennedy and
the Rev. Martin Luther King Jr.
The NRA's shift came at a time of increasing urban gun violence and
debate about firearm laws. It also coincided with the creation of the
modern-day ATF. The agency had been born as a bureau within the
Treasury Department in 1972. By the middle of that decade it was
moving from busting moonshiners in Appalachia to enforcing gun laws in
U.S. cities.
The NRA created a political arm in 1975, largely in response to the
Gun Control Act of 1968, which expanded licensing and recordkeeping
requirements for gun dealers and placed limitations on handgun sales.
Shortly after, hard-liners wrested control from moderates during an
NRA conference known as "the revolt in Cincinnati."
In 1978, the NRA was ready when the Carter administration proposed a
rule requiring quarterly reports on gun sales from licensed firearms
dealers. NRA opposition produced 350,000 letters and comments. One
letter was addressed to the Gestapo, while another included a tea bag
to invoke the Boston Tea Party.
Congress killed the rule and also prohibited ATF from "consolidating
or centralizing" gun dealer records in a computer database, which the
agency wanted to do to analyze gun traces for trafficking patterns.
Congress also cut $4.2 million from the ATF budget, the amount needed
to fund a computer system.
The message was clear and searing.
"It scared ATF so badly that for the next 10 years, if you said
'computer,' everybody ran and hid in the closet," Vizzard said.
When Ronald Reagan came into office, the NRA nearly succeeded in its
longtime goal of abolishing ATF. Reagan wanted to eliminate the agency
and transfer its powers to the Secret Service and the Internal Revenue
Service. But NRA leaders decided they preferred the weak devil they
knew to stronger new regulators. Quietly and somewhat awkwardly, they
lobbied to undo their accomplishment. "As long as ATF existed, the
firearms lobby could utilize it as a symbolic opponent," Vizzard said.
"Without an ATF, the firearms lobby lost a key actor in the ritual
drama - the villain."
Under Reagan, the NRA's power grew. In 1986, the NRA won passage of a
law that limited ATF inspections of gun dealers to once a year,
reduced certain violations to misdemeanors and raised the standard of
proof needed to revoke a dealer's license.
The NRA said the act was necessary because ATF was too tough on honest
dealers, many of whom are small mom-and-pop operations. ATF agents
said the effect was to make it much more difficult to shut down rogue
gun dealers.
With the election of Bill Clinton, the gun lobby faced its greatest
challenge. He shepherded new laws, beginning with criminal background
checks on purchasers and a 10-year ban on sales of assault weapons.
One of the laws was named for James Brady, the former White House
press secretary who was shot in the 1981 assassination attempt on
Reagan.
"Clinton was the most unfriendly president to the firearms industry,"
said Lawrence Keane, general counsel to the National Shooting Sports
Foundation, which represents gun manufacturers.
Some rural Democrats with good NRA ratings sided with Clinton. In
1994, the NRA helped the GOP unseat so many Democrats that Clinton
blamed his party's loss of Congress on the gun issue. The NRA spent
$114,710 to help Rep. George R. Nethercutt (R-Wash.) upset House
Speaker Thomas S. Foley (D).
"The NRA had a great night," Clinton wrote in his autobiography. "They
beat both Speaker Tom Foley and Jack Brooks, two of the ablest members
of Congress, who had warned me this would happen. . . The NRA was an
unforgiving master: one strike and you're out."
The cold war between ATF and the NRA went hot in 1995 when LaPierre,
in a fundraising letter, called federal agents "jack-booted government
thugs." Referring to ATF raid on the Branch Davidian compound in
Texas, LaPierre wrote, "Not too long ago, it was unthinkable for
federal agents wearing Nazi bucket helmets and black storm trooper
uniforms to attack law-abiding citizens."
The letter backfired. Many NRA members contended LaPierre had gone too
far. Former president George H.W. Bush, a gun enthusiast and decades-
long member, resigned from the NRA. Bush accused the NRA of slurring a
"wide array of government law enforcement officials, who are out
there, day and night, laying their lives on the line for all of us."
In the wake of that rare NRA misstep, the group turned to a new public
face and president: Charlton Heston.
At the 2000 NRA convention, the former actor brought the audience to
its feet with his attack on gun control advocates. In a memorable
speech attacking presidential candidate Al Gore, Heston raised a
replica of a Colonial musket over his head and said, echoing a bumper
sticker, "From my cold, dead hands."
When Gore lost the 2000 election, many Democrats blamed it on pro-gun-
control positions he had taken in the past.
Gun control activists tried a new tack: lawsuits. After watching the
success of litigation against tobacco companies in the 1990s, the city
of Chicago seized on a novel legal theory to sue gunmakers and stores,
arguing that handgun marketing endangered public health. Bob Ricker, a
former NRA counsel turned whistleblower, testified that the industry
was complicit because there are gun dealers "who through willful,
negligent or irresponsible actions contribute to the illicit gun
market."
Industry lawyer Keane said Ricker, who died in December, was not
credible, because he was a paid consultant. In response to the
lawsuits, gun industry attorneys said that dealers should not be held
liable for how their guns are used and that the lawsuits were an
attempt to shut down the industry.
The gun lobby played a congressional trump card. In 2003, Todd Tiahrt,
a Republican congressman from Kansas, surprised members of both
parties with a last-minute amendment to a spending bill to exempt
ATF's gun-trace database from the Freedom of Information Act. The
effect was to take the heat off gun dealers with the most traces and
deny the information to lawyers, academics and journalists. The Tiahrt
Amendment, along with a later industry immunity bill, largely killed
the litigation.
The Obama effect
In January, on the massive convention floor of the Sands Expo &
Convention Center in Las Vegas, attendees and vendors from 75
countries milled amid the giant, dazzling booths featuring elaborate
displays of weaponry, from Glocks to Bushmasters.
The annual SHOT Show - the Shooting, Hunting, Outdoor Trade Show, the
largest trade event for the shooting sports and hunting industries -
drew about 60,000 buyers and manufacturers. Business was booming.
"Despite the worst recession in a generation, we have thrived,"
National Shooting Sports Foundation President Steven Sanetti said at
the event's state-of-the-industry dinner.
The reason? Barack Obama.
Critics say the NRA and other gun organizations used Obama's candidacy
and election to scare gun owners and boost their memberships. In TV
ads and on the Internet, the NRA warned that Obama planned to ban
handguns and close 90 percent of gun shops.
"Never in NRA's history have we faced a presidential candidate . . .
with such a deep-rooted hatred of firearm freedoms," LaPierre wrote in
a fundraising letter in 2008. He declined to be interviewed for this
story.
Obama never said anything about banning handguns or closing gun shops.
His campaign platform promised to pursue long-standing proposals to
address urban violence: reinstating the assault weapons ban, outlawing
"cop killer" bullets and closing the "gun-show loophole" that permits
firearm sales without background checks.
The campaign said Obama favored "commonsense measures" to protect gun
rights "while keeping guns away from children and from criminals who
shouldn't have them." Obama also said he would repeal the Tiahrt
Amendment.
The NRA created a Web page that is still active, www.gunbanobama.com ,
to attack Obama's gun record. The site states, "Hillary was Right: You
Can't Trust Obama With Your Guns." It then links to a mailer that
Hillary Rodham Clinton used in the Democratic primary against Obama.
Recognizing his vulnerability in swing states, Obama began to run an
alternate campaign to calm the worries of gun owners, said Ray
Schoenke, a former Washington Redskins lineman who founded a moderate
gun rights group, the American Hunters and Shooters Association, as
part of the Obama effort.
The Obama campaign paid for Schoenke's travel to 40 events in Ohio,
Pennsylvania, Florida and Colorado to address pro-gun voters.
"The opposition said Obama was going to take away everyone's guns, tax
ammunitions, tax guns, register guns and reinstate the assault weapons
ban," Schoenke said. "We said, 'He is not going to do any of these
things.' And he didn't."
When Holder, then Obama's nominee for attorney general, repeated
Obama's gun control platform at his confirmation hearing last year, 65
Democrats wrote Holder vowing to "actively oppose" any effort to
restore the assault weapons ban. It was taken off the table, along
with the other proposals.
Schoenke said he was in touch with the White House after Holder's
comments, and he was assured that Obama would not be making a move
toward stricter gun laws unpopular with gun groups. "We basically said
it ain't gonna happen," Schoenke said recently. "And it hasn't
happened."
In his first 20 months in office, Obama has virtually been silent on
guns.
When the Obama administration passed its budget last year, it left the
Tiahrt Amendment virtually intact. It expanded police access to the
gun trace data but tightened restrictions on public disclosure of the
data.
Gun control advocates are disappointed.
"President Obama's first-year record on gun violence prevention has
been an abject failure," said the Brady Center to Prevent Gun
Violence.
The NRA, whose membership has tripled since 1978, says it remains on
guard.
"We're up against, in the next two years, an Obama administration
embedded with people that have spent a lifetime trying to destroy this
great American freedom," LaPierre said on an NRA election-night
webcast, "and we're going to have our work cut out for us."
[horw...@washpost.com grim...@washpost.com]
[Staff researcher Magda Jean-Louis contributed to this report.]
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/12/14/AR2010121406045.html?hpid=topnews
rigger
<kink...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> IT MAY SEEM outlandish, or unlawful, but if the U.S. of Firearms is
> ever to be rescued from the NRA's political "influence," gun-control
> advocates will have to take a two-step page from the anti-
> abortionists:
>
> 1) Target NRA heads; top 40 national-level-politicians receiving NRA
> contributions; and owners of the largest outlaw gun stores. Then ...
>
> 2) Assassinate 'em!
>
> Fear is the NRA's and the gun-huggers' worst enemy.
>
I've got an even better idea. Let's make all guns illegal and force
prospective gun owners to become criminals when they try to own
them.
Then let's force the gun manufacturers in this country to close up
shop and this will force gun owners into an illegal black market
when gun-runners are the only source. Unless you are a wealthy
person, that is (we'll make exceptions for them as we do now) in
which case we can concentrate on making sure the common man
has no such "privilege" (which we used to call "rights").
Then let's go around and raid people's homes and businesses as
we walk on the rst of the Constitutional Rights to do so.
In fact we don't have to come up with a Master Plan. We can use
all these tecniques that were so successful during Prohibition.
dennis
in nca
RD Sandman
news:4bfbc292-321f-4428...@j32g2000prh.googlegroups.com:
> IT MAY SEEM outlandish, or unlawful, but if the U.S. of Firearms is
> ever to be rescued from the NRA's political "influence," gun-control
> advocates will have to take a two-step page from the anti-
> abortionists:
>
> 1) Target NRA heads; top 40 national-level-politicians receiving NRA
> contributions; and owners of the largest outlaw gun stores. Then ...
>
> 2) Assassinate 'em!
>
>
> Fear is the NRA's and the gun-huggers' worst enemy.
>
>
> ---------------------------
> "NRA-led gun lobby wields powerful influence over ATF, U.S. politics"
>
> By Sari Horwitz and James V. Grimaldi
> Washington Post Staff Writers
> Wednesday, December 15, 2010; 12:00 AM
>
>
>
>
>
> Behind the scenes, federal agents in charge of stopping gun
> trafficking to Mexico have quietly advanced a plan to help stem the
> smuggling of high-powered AK-47s and AR-15s to the bloody drug war
> south of the border.
Damn, first paragraph and an error already. AK47s and AR15s are not high
powered. They are considered medium powered firearms. The AR15 is a hot
.22 while the AK47 clones are weak sisters to our 7.62x51 NATO rounds.
Both guns are on the level of a .30-30 in power.
> The controversial proposal by officials at the Bureau of Alcohol,
> Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives calls for a measure strongly opposed
> by the National Rifle Association: requiring gun dealers to report
> multiple sales of rifles and shotguns to ATF.
They are already reporting multiple handgun sales.
> The gun issue is so incendiary and fear of the NRA so great that the
> ATF plan languished for months at the Justice Department, according to
> some senior law enforcement officials who spoke on the condition of
> anonymity but would not provide details.
He must be afraid also. ;)
> The NRA got wind of the idea last month and warned its 4 million
> members in a "grassroots alert" that the administration might try to
> go around Congress to get such a plan enacted as an executive order or
> rule.
>
> An ATF spokesman declined to comment about the matter. Attorney
> General Eric H. Holder Jr. declined to be interviewed. Matt Miller, a
> spokesman for the Justice Department, said "the administration
> continues to support common-sense measures to stem gun violence."
Then why aren't their plans directed at the criminals who cause that
violence? Inquiring minds want to know.
> In the past few days, the plan has quietly gained traction at Justice.
> But sources told The Post they fear that if the plan becomes public,
> the NRA will marshal its forces to kill it.
One can hope although I have no big problem with reporting of multiple
sales of firearms other than it is part of creeping antigun fervor.
> Such is the power of the NRA. With annual revenue of about $250
> million, the group has for four decades been the strongest force
> shaping the nation's gun laws.
>
> The fate of the Mexican gunrunning rule is only the most recent
> example of how the gun lobby has consistently outmaneuvered and hemmed
> in ATF, using political muscle to intimidate lawmakers and erect
> barriers to tougher gun laws.
Why don't they work harder on enforcing current laws. Smuggling is
illegal, as are straw sales and dealers who continually break the law
ought to be in prison not in business.
Over nearly four decades, the NRA has
> wielded remarkable influence over Congress, persuading lawmakers to
> curb ATF's budget and mission and to call agency officials to account
> at oversight hearings.
All government agencies should be accountable for their actions.
> The source of the NRA's power is its focus on
> one issue and its ability to get pro-gun candidates elected.
Someone needs to speak for us. Unfortunately, groups like GOA, SAF,
Brassroots, JPFO, etc.. aren't powerful enough to carry much weight.
They are like little fiefdoms with their own little group of followers
and as such really don't have much effect.
> The result is that a president such as Obama, whose campaign platform
> called for tougher gun laws, finds his freedom of action
> circumscribed. The issue has bedeviled Democrats for years, especially
> after defeats in the 1994 midterms and the 2000 presidential election,
> in which Al Gore lost his home state of Tennessee.
Partially due to the gun issue. The government is supposed to represent
the people and those candidates for office who get their walking papers
obviously aren't.
> "That was the shift of the tectonic plate for the Democrats on the gun
> issue," said James Cavanaugh, former ATF special agent in charge in
> Nashville. "The thing that really, really, really scared the Democrats
> was Al Gore losing his home state, and the reason was the gun issue.
> They all know it."
>
> The gun lobbyists are well aware of their power. "The White House is
> sensitized enough to understand it really is the third rail of
> American politics," said Richard Feldman, a former lobbyist for the
> NRA and a gun industry trade representative who has discussed gun
> policy with White House officials. "They have figured out that it is a
> lightning-rod issue, and they don't want it to injure them."
>
> Led by Executive Vice President Wayne LaPierre, who was paid $1.26
> million in 2008, the NRA in the past two decades has spent more than
> $100 million on political activities in the United States, according
> to documents and interviews, including $22 million on lobbying and
> nearly $75 million on campaigns.
>
> Only two groups have spent more on campaigns since 1989 - the Service
> Employees International Union and the American Federation of State,
> County and Municipal Employees, according to a review of campaign
> financing by The Washington Post.
IOW, UNIONs.
> In this year's midterm elections, 80 percent of the 307 House and
> Senate backed by the NRA were victorious, a Post analysis of the NRA's
> endorsements shows. About half of incoming House members got NRA
> backing, the analysis shows. In the Senate, the NRA says the number of
> A-rated senators is now 50.
>
> NRA officials say their efforts protect the rights of gun owners. "We
> don't represent criminals who misuse firearms," said Chris W. Cox,
> director of the NRA's Institute for Legislative Action. "We don't
> represent dealers who willfully and knowingly violate the law. We
> represent honest, law-abiding people, including honest dealers who are
> often targeted in an unfortunate way."
All true.
> Last year, the NRA perturbed ATF agents by sending dealers an article
> by an industry lawyer. "You never, ever have to speak to an ATF agent
> or inspector," the article said. "You have the absolute right not to
> answer any questions that an inspector may pose to you."
Again, an agent visit is not a court of law.
> Another reason morale is low, ATF agents say, is the firearms bureau
> has been without a permanent director since 2006, when Congress
> required the position to be confirmed by the Senate. The effect was to
> give the gun lobby power to block a director - one senator can hold up
> any nomination, and the Senate needs 60 votes to overcome that
> opposition.
Damn, just like the healthcare bill.
> Last month, about two weeks after the midterm elections, Obama
> nominated a director: Andrew Traver, special agent in charge of ATF's
> Chicago field division.
>
> The NRA strongly opposes Traver because he is "deeply aligned with gun
> control advocates and anti-gun activities," an NRA news release said.
> The group cited his work with the Gun Violence Reduction Project, a
> nationwide initiative of police chiefs, and the Joyce Foundation,
> which promotes stricter gun laws.
Which, the NRA thinks will color his objectivity when it comes to gun
control.
> With the NRA in opposition, Traver's nomination is unlikely to be
> approved by Congress.
>
> "It is clearly the most powerful lobby in the United States," said
> William Vizzard, a former ATF agent who is now a criminal-justice
> professor in California. "The NRA has shaped gun policy and shaped the
> ATF."
> The NRA's shift
>
> Don Davis, 77, has run Don's Guns and Galleries in Indianapolis for 37
> years and says he is one of the highest-volume dealers in the region.
> A big supporter of the Second Amendment right to bear arms, Davis
> resigned from the NRA many years ago. "They used to be an organization
> for the hunter and the fishermen," he said recently. "Then they got
> into politics. They're so political, that's what they do with their
> money. Today if you say anything about a gun, they use their money to
> run against you."
They had to. No one else jumped in to represent the gun owners. NRA-ILA
was developed for that very reason.
> The story of how a group created in 1871 to sharpen the marksmanship
> of soldiers transformed into a modern political juggernaut begins
> after serious gun control gained momentum in the United States
> following the assassinations of John F. Kennedy, Robert F. Kennedy and
> the Rev. Martin Luther King Jr.
Yep.....penalizing all gunowners for the actions of a pair of idiots.
> The NRA's shift came at a time of increasing urban gun violence and
> debate about firearm laws. It also coincided with the creation of the
> modern-day ATF. The agency had been born as a bureau within the
> Treasury Department in 1972. By the middle of that decade it was
> moving from busting moonshiners in Appalachia to enforcing gun laws in
> U.S. cities.
>
> The NRA created a political arm in 1975, largely in response to the
> Gun Control Act of 1968, which expanded licensing and recordkeeping
> requirements for gun dealers and placed limitations on handgun sales.
> Shortly after, hard-liners wrested control from moderates during an
> NRA conference known as "the revolt in Cincinnati."
>
> In 1978, the NRA was ready when the Carter administration proposed a
> rule requiring quarterly reports on gun sales from licensed firearms
> dealers. NRA opposition produced 350,000 letters and comments. One
> letter was addressed to the Gestapo, while another included a tea bag
> to invoke the Boston Tea Party.
Imagine the number of teabags that would involve today. ;)
> Congress killed the rule and also prohibited ATF from "consolidating
> or centralizing" gun dealer records in a computer database, which the
> agency wanted to do to analyze gun traces for trafficking patterns.
That action would have formed an ad-hoc gunowner database and tracking
carries on quite well today without doing it.
> Congress also cut $4.2 million from the ATF budget, the amount needed
> to fund a computer system.
>
> The message was clear and searing.
>
> "It scared ATF so badly that for the next 10 years, if you said
> 'computer,' everybody ran and hid in the closet," Vizzard said.
>
> When Ronald Reagan came into office, the NRA nearly succeeded in its
> longtime goal of abolishing ATF. Reagan wanted to eliminate the agency
> and transfer its powers to the Secret Service and the Internal Revenue
> Service. But NRA leaders decided they preferred the weak devil they
> knew to stronger new regulators. Quietly and somewhat awkwardly, they
> lobbied to undo their accomplishment. "As long as ATF existed, the
> firearms lobby could utilize it as a symbolic opponent," Vizzard said.
> "Without an ATF, the firearms lobby lost a key actor in the ritual
> drama - the villain."
>
> Under Reagan, the NRA's power grew. In 1986, the NRA won passage of a
> law that limited ATF inspections of gun dealers to once a year,
And yet, the agency complains of being overworked.
> reduced certain violations to misdemeanors and raised the standard of
> proof needed to revoke a dealer's license.
>
> The NRA said the act was necessary because ATF was too tough on honest
> dealers, many of whom are small mom-and-pop operations. ATF agents
> said the effect was to make it much more difficult to shut down rogue
> gun dealers.
Kinda depends on whose ox is being gored, doesn't it.
> With the election of Bill Clinton, the gun lobby faced its greatest
> challenge. He shepherded new laws, beginning with criminal background
> checks on purchasers and a 10-year ban on sales of assault weapons.
> One of the laws was named for James Brady, the former White House
> press secretary who was shot in the 1981 assassination attempt on
> Reagan.
>
> "Clinton was the most unfriendly president to the firearms industry,"
> said Lawrence Keane, general counsel to the National Shooting Sports
> Foundation, which represents gun manufacturers.
>
> Some rural Democrats with good NRA ratings sided with Clinton. In
> 1994, the NRA helped the GOP unseat so many Democrats that Clinton
> blamed his party's loss of Congress on the gun issue. The NRA spent
> $114,710 to help Rep. George R. Nethercutt (R-Wash.) upset House
> Speaker Thomas S. Foley (D).
>
> "The NRA had a great night," Clinton wrote in his autobiography. "They
> beat both Speaker Tom Foley and Jack Brooks, two of the ablest members
> of Congress, who had warned me this would happen. . . The NRA was an
> unforgiving master: one strike and you're out."
>
> The cold war between ATF and the NRA went hot in 1995 when LaPierre,
> in a fundraising letter, called federal agents "jack-booted government
> thugs."
He simply repeated what had been said by President Bush the elder.
Referring to ATF raid on the Branch Davidian compound in
> Texas, LaPierre wrote, "Not too long ago, it was unthinkable for
> federal agents wearing Nazi bucket helmets and black storm trooper
> uniforms to attack law-abiding citizens."
Yep, and that still stinks.
> The letter backfired. Many NRA members contended LaPierre had gone too
> far. Former president George H.W. Bush, a gun enthusiast and decades-
> long member, resigned from the NRA. Bush accused the NRA of slurring a
> "wide array of government law enforcement officials, who are out
> there, day and night, laying their lives on the line for all of us."
Interesting that it was his statement that La Pierre used. ;)
> In the wake of that rare NRA misstep, the group turned to a new public
> face and president: Charlton Heston.
>
> At the 2000 NRA convention, the former actor brought the audience to
> its feet with his attack on gun control advocates. In a memorable
> speech attacking presidential candidate Al Gore, Heston raised a
> replica of a Colonial musket over his head and said, echoing a bumper
> sticker, "From my cold, dead hands."
>
> When Gore lost the 2000 election, many Democrats blamed it on pro-gun-
> control positions he had taken in the past.
Particularly causing him to lose his home state of Tennessee.
> Gun control activists tried a new tack: lawsuits. After watching the
> success of litigation against tobacco companies in the 1990s, the city
> of Chicago seized on a novel legal theory to sue gunmakers and stores,
> arguing that handgun marketing endangered public health. Bob Ricker, a
> former NRA counsel turned whistleblower, testified that the industry
> was complicit because there are gun dealers "who through willful,
> negligent or irresponsible actions contribute to the illicit gun
> market."
Then they ought to be arrested, tried, convicted and spending time in
prison.
> Industry lawyer Keane said Ricker, who died in December, was not
> credible, because he was a paid consultant. In response to the
> lawsuits, gun industry attorneys said that dealers should not be held
> liable for how their guns are used
This is true.
and that the lawsuits were an
> attempt to shut down the industry.
>
> The gun lobby played a congressional trump card. In 2003, Todd Tiahrt,
> a Republican congressman from Kansas, surprised members of both
> parties with a last-minute amendment to a spending bill to exempt
> ATF's gun-trace database from the Freedom of Information Act. The
> effect was to take the heat off gun dealers with the most traces and
> deny the information to lawyers, academics and journalists. The Tiahrt
> Amendment, along with a later industry immunity bill, largely killed
> the litigation.
Law enforcement has full access to that data. What the Tiahrt amendment
did was to prevent "fishing".
> The Obama effect
>
> In January, on the massive convention floor of the Sands Expo &
> Convention Center in Las Vegas, attendees and vendors from 75
> countries milled amid the giant, dazzling booths featuring elaborate
> displays of weaponry, from Glocks to Bushmasters.
>
> The annual SHOT Show - the Shooting, Hunting, Outdoor Trade Show, the
> largest trade event for the shooting sports and hunting industries -
> drew about 60,000 buyers and manufacturers. Business was booming.
>
> "Despite the worst recession in a generation, we have thrived,"
> National Shooting Sports Foundation President Steven Sanetti said at
> the event's state-of-the-industry dinner.
>
> The reason? Barack Obama.
>
> Critics say the NRA and other gun organizations used Obama's candidacy
> and election to scare gun owners and boost their memberships. In TV
> ads and on the Internet, the NRA warned that Obama planned to ban
> handguns and close 90 percent of gun shops.
>
> "Never in NRA's history have we faced a presidential candidate . . .
> with such a deep-rooted hatred of firearm freedoms," LaPierre wrote in
> a fundraising letter in 2008. He declined to be interviewed for this
> story.
>
> Obama never said anything about banning handguns or closing gun shops.
> His campaign platform promised to pursue long-standing proposals to
> address urban violence: reinstating the assault weapons ban,
Which was based purely on cosmetics......
> outlawing "cop killer" bullets
Which don't exist.
and closing the "gun-show loophole" that permits
> firearm sales without background checks.
IOW, a term for the private sale of property between private individual
gun owners and has nothing to do with dealers who are required to follow
the same laws no matter where they sell their wares. Inside a gun show
or outside a gun show or in their store front, it makes no difference.
Dealers are required to run background checks and fill out 4473s on all
sales.
> The campaign said Obama favored "commonsense measures" to protect gun
> rights "while keeping guns away from children and from criminals who
> shouldn't have them."
Laws are already in place to do that.
Obama also said he would repeal the Tiahrt
> Amendment.
Which would again allow 'fishing'.
> The NRA created a Web page that is still active, www.gunbanobama.com ,
> to attack Obama's gun record. The site states, "Hillary was Right: You
> Can't Trust Obama With Your Guns." It then links to a mailer that
> Hillary Rodham Clinton used in the Democratic primary against Obama.
>
> Recognizing his vulnerability in swing states, Obama began to run an
> alternate campaign to calm the worries of gun owners, said Ray
> Schoenke, a former Washington Redskins lineman who founded a moderate
> gun rights group, the American Hunters and Shooters Association, as
> part of the Obama effort.
Hmmmm,"moderate" means "antigun"?
> The Obama campaign paid for Schoenke's travel to 40 events in Ohio,
> Pennsylvania, Florida and Colorado to address pro-gun voters.
>
> "The opposition said Obama was going to take away everyone's guns, tax
> ammunitions, tax guns, register guns and reinstate the assault weapons
> ban," Schoenke said. "We said, 'He is not going to do any of these
> things.' And he didn't."
Yet. His record says he will if he remains in office.
> When Holder, then Obama's nominee for attorney general, repeated
> Obama's gun control platform at his confirmation hearing last year, 65
> Democrats wrote Holder vowing to "actively oppose" any effort to
> restore the assault weapons ban. It was taken off the table, along
> with the other proposals.
As it should be since the AWB was simply an ineffective law based purely
on cosmetics.
> Schoenke said he was in touch with the White House after Holder's
> comments, and he was assured that Obama would not be making a move
> toward stricter gun laws unpopular with gun groups. "We basically said
> it ain't gonna happen," Schoenke said recently. "And it hasn't
> happened."
>
> In his first 20 months in office, Obama has virtually been silent on
> guns.
>
> When the Obama administration passed its budget last year, it left the
> Tiahrt Amendment virtually intact. It expanded police access to the
> gun trace data but tightened restrictions on public disclosure of the
> data.
Good....no problem there.
> Gun control advocates are disappointed.
>
> "President Obama's first-year record on gun violence prevention has
> been an abject failure," said the Brady Center to Prevent Gun
> Violence.
>
> The NRA, whose membership has tripled since 1978, says it remains on
> guard.
>
> "We're up against, in the next two years, an Obama administration
> embedded with people that have spent a lifetime trying to destroy this
> great American freedom," LaPierre said on an NRA election-night
> webcast, "and we're going to have our work cut out for us."
>
> [horw...@washpost.com grim...@washpost.com]
>
> [Staff researcher Magda Jean-Louis contributed to this report.]
>
> http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/12/14/AR20101
> 21406045.html?hpid=topnews
>
--
Sleep well tonight,
RD (The Sandman)
History shows that today's helping hand becomes
tomorrow's entitlement.
Wayne
"RD Sandman" <rdsandman@comcast[remove].net> wrote in message
news:Xns9E4F79567...@216.196.121.131...
> "Sarah \"DaffyDumbShit\" Palin" <kin...@yahoo.com> wrote in
> news:4bfbc292-321f-4428...@j32g2000prh.googlegroups.com:
>
>> IT MAY SEEM outlandish, or unlawful, but if the U.S. of Firearms is
>> ever to be rescued from the NRA's political "influence," gun-control
>> advocates will have to take a two-step page from the anti-
>> abortionists:
>>
>> 1) Target NRA heads; top 40 national-level-politicians receiving NRA
>> contributions; and owners of the largest outlaw gun stores. Then ...
>>
>> 2) Assassinate 'em!
>>
>>
>> Fear is the NRA's and the gun-huggers' worst enemy.
>>
>>
>> ---------------------------
>> "NRA-led gun lobby wields powerful influence over ATF, U.S. politics"
>>
powerful influence. The fact is that the NRA is composed of "us". There
are a lot of "us" who own firearms, and who vote. Complaints against the
NRA are complaints about the majority. Thus, we should wield powerful
influence.
RD Sandman
@c17g2000prm.googlegroups.com:
> On Dec 15, 10:20 am, "Sarah \"DaffyDumbShit\" Palin"
> <kink...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> IT MAY SEEM outlandish, or unlawful, but if the U.S. of Firearms is
>> ever to be rescued from the NRA's political "influence," gun-control
>> advocates will have to take a two-step page from the anti-
>> abortionists:
>>
>> 1) Target NRA heads; top 40 national-level-politicians receiving NRA
>> contributions; and owners of the largest outlaw gun stores. Then ...
>>
>> 2) Assassinate 'em!
>>
>> Fear is the NRA's and the gun-huggers' worst enemy.
>>
>
> I've got an even better idea. Let's make all guns illegal and force
> prospective gun owners to become criminals when they try to own
> them.
I got a better idea.....how about you personally stop by and take mine?
;)
RD Sandman
news:ieb43d$gsr$1...@news.eternal-september.org:
Well, we aren't the majority but the majority does bow down to us and we
do wield enormous influence.
DaffyDumbShitPalin
> "RD Sandman" <rdsandman@comcast[remove].net> wrote in message
>
> news:Xns9E4F79567...@216.196.121.131...
>
DaffyDumbShitPalin
Hardly a majority, except maybe among the low-education, un-skilled,
racist dumb'uns who might vote another Bush into the White House.
Like waynie here.
Sorry.
It's weenie, isn't it?
Wayne
"DaffyDumbShitPalin" <jism...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:e6781393-fc41-4a63...@n32g2000pre.googlegroups.com...
When I talk about the "majority", I include NRA members and the many casual
gun owners (and even non gun owners) who are not NRA members, but are
supportive of NRA ideas.
SaPeIsMa
> news:e6781393-fc41-4a63...@n32g2000pre.googlegroups.com...
> FOUR MILLION DUPED FOOLS, it's said, pay money and homage to the NRA.
>
> Hardly a majority, except maybe among the low-education, un-skilled,
> racist dumb'uns who might vote another Bush into the White House.
>
Dang.
President John F. Kennedy was a Life Member of the NRA.
Where does that put him ?
Tom S.
"SaPeIsMa" <SaPe...@HotMail.com> wrote in message news:7c6dnYHqOLYFo5TQ...@bright.net...
>> "DaffyDumbShitPalin" <jism...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>> news:e6781393-fc41-4a63...@n32g2000pre.googlegroups.com...
>> FOUR MILLION DUPED FOOLS, it's said, pay money and homage to the NRA.
>>
>> Hardly a majority, except maybe among the low-education, un-skilled,
>> racist dumb'uns who might vote another Bush into the White House.
Interesting inversion of the real demographics (i.e., middle class/entreprenurial with degrees in the hard sciences/business ratherthan the ghetto rats who dropped out of high school or got liberal arts degress...)
>>
>
> Dang.
> President John F. Kennedy was a Life Member of the NRA.
> Where does that put him ?
He's also the first of the "tax rate cutters" in our lifetimes.
The left, as demonstrated here, are the perfect substantiation of Thomas Sowell's assessment in "A Conflict of Visions".
Gray Ghost
> IT MAY SEEM outlandish, or unlawful, but if the U.S. of Firearms is
> ever to be rescued from the NRA's political "influence," gun-control
> advocates will have to take a two-step page from the anti-
> abortionists:
>
> 1) Target NRA heads; top 40 national-level-politicians receiving NRA
> contributions; and owners of the largest outlaw gun stores. Then ...
>
> 2) Assassinate 'em!
>
I bet the response makes you crap a mile wide and high.
Really, do you want civil war, asswipe? Do you really? Are YOU personally
ready to kill or die?
Me personally I've been thinking about how to cut someone's throat, you know
completely transect the jugular, without getting a lot of blood on me. You
have any thoughts on that?
BTW, you just called for the murder of US politicians. I think that is a
terroristic threat. I wonder what DHS says about that?
--
Democrat donkey pontificating:
Americans only oppose Obama because they are racist....
Americans were against the stiumulus because they are uneducated....
Americans oppose socialism because they are greedy....
Americans are against Obamacare because they are stupid....
Americans are opposed to the Ground Zero mosque because they are bigots....
I just can't figure why Americans are opposed to us.
Maybe 'cuz we're racist, uneducated, greedy, stupid bigots.
Or maybe it's 'cuz you morons sound like Nazis talking about Jews in the
1930s.
Gray Ghost
> Path:
> border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!postnews.google.com!j32g20
> 00prh.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail From: "Sarah \"DaffyDumbShit\" Palin"
> <kin...@yahoo.com> Newsgroups:
> talk.politics.guns,alt.guns,alt.rec.guns,alt.impeach.bush,alt.politics.usa
> .republicans Subject: Time To Get DEADLY Serious With The NRA! U.S.
> Government Is Afraid To Stop Gun-Nuts At All Levels! Date: Wed, 15 Dec
> 2010 10:20:06 -0800 (PST) Organization: http://groups.google.com
> Lines: 372
> Message-ID:
> <4bfbc292-321f-4428...@j32g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
> NNTP-Posting-Host: 69.140.253.235 Mime-Version: 1.0
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
> X-Trace: posting.google.com 1292437207 6937 127.0.0.1 (15 Dec 2010
> 18:20:07 GMT) X-Complaints-To: groups...@google.com
> NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2010 18:20:07 +0000 (UTC)
> Complaints-To: groups...@google.com
> Injection-Info: j32g2000prh.googlegroups.com;
> posting-host=69.140.253.235;
> posting-account=GauC0QkAAABpjgPOhpafjE_adL3-SytD User-Agent: G2/1.0
> X-HTTP-UserAgent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 6.0; en-US;
> rv:1.9.2.13) Gecko/20101203 Firefox/3.6.13 GTB7.1 (.NET CLR
> 3.5.30729),gzip(gfe) Bytes: 19227
> Xref: number.nntp.dca.giganews.com alt.politics.usa.republicans:85574
> alt.impeach.bush:2022209 alt.rec.guns:80533 alt.guns:141040
> talk.politics.guns:3039879
>
> IT MAY SEEM outlandish, or unlawful, but if the U.S. of Firearms is
> ever to be rescued from the NRA's political "influence," gun-control
> advocates will have to take a two-step page from the anti-
> abortionists:
>
> 1) Target NRA heads; top 40 national-level-politicians receiving NRA
> contributions; and owners of the largest outlaw gun stores. Then ...
>
> 2) Assassinate 'em!
>
Yep, advocating the murder of US political figures in this day and age? Not
exactly the brightest move. Seems to be more and more of this lefty violence
lately though. The arsonist in Mass, the fucktard in FL.
Tell you what when the humorless guys in suits show up, I wouldn't make any
sudden moves. They may be a bit edgy.
On second thought, do something stupid, so I can read the news story and find
out your real name. Posthumously.
Do you know what a terroristic threat is? You're about to find out the precise
legal defintion. Do you have a lawyer or will you need to have one appointed
to you? Man, I hope you have some money, it's going to be very expensice.
Gray Ghost
> rigger <dg...@aol.com> wrote in news:5aa06500-ccfc-4e1e-a5a3-c0f65130ff34
> @c17g2000prm.googlegroups.com:
>
>> On Dec 15, 10:20 am, "Sarah \"DaffyDumbShit\" Palin"
>> <kink...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>> IT MAY SEEM outlandish, or unlawful, but if the U.S. of Firearms is
>>> ever to be rescued from the NRA's political "influence," gun-control
>>> advocates will have to take a two-step page from the anti-
>>> abortionists:
>>>
>>> 1) Target NRA heads; top 40 national-level-politicians receiving NRA
>>> contributions; and owners of the largest outlaw gun stores. Then ...
>>>
>>> 2) Assassinate 'em!
>>>
>>> Fear is the NRA's and the gun-huggers' worst enemy.
>>>
>>
>> I've got an even better idea. Let's make all guns illegal and force
>> prospective gun owners to become criminals when they try to own them.
>
> I got a better idea.....how about you personally stop by and take mine?
> ;)
>
>
>
Even better idea, report his dumb ass to the FBI. Threatening or calling for
the assasination of US politicians, I'm pretty sure is illegal. At least these
days.
A couple of more folks should report him, I already did. One complaint is
ignorable, but if several more join in, well, we just might save America from
another violent criminal.
Gray Ghost
>
Hello? Threats against US polticians? Illegal? Stupid? Actionable?
Matt
wrote:
> "Wayne" <mygarbage...@verizon.net> wrote innews:ieb43d$gsr$1...@news.eternal-
> september.org:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > "RD Sandman" <rdsandman@comcast[remove].net> wrote in message
> >news:Xns9E4F79567...@216.196.121.131...
> >>news:4bfbc292-321f-4428...@j32g2000prh.googlegroups.com:
>
> >>> IT MAY SEEM outlandish, or unlawful, but if the U.S. of Firearms is
> >>> ever to be rescued from the NRA's political "influence," gun-control
> >>> advocates will have to take a two-step page from the anti-
> >>> abortionists:
>
> >>> 1) Target NRA heads; top 40 national-level-politicians receiving NRA
> >>> contributions; and owners of the largest outlaw gun stores. Then ...
>
> >>> 2) Assassinate 'em!
>
> >>> Fear is the NRA's and the gun-huggers' worst enemy.
>
> >>> ---------------------------
> >>> "NRA-led gun lobby wields powerful influence over ATF, U.S. politics"
>
> > Funny how the NRA is always this sinister faceless organization, weilding
> > powerful influence. The fact is that the NRA is composed of "us". There
> > are a lot of "us" who own firearms, and who vote. Complaints against the
> > NRA are complaints about the majority. Thus, we should wield powerful
> > influence.
>
> Hello? Threats against US polticians? Illegal? Stupid? Actionable?
Stupid? Absolutely.
Illegal? Not really, no direct threat was made to an individual.
Actionable? I don't think so, see previous statement. Had he actually
specified
any of the politicians, it might be actionable.
Matt
Gray Ghost
news:o2njg6lq8g94jugb1...@4ax.com:
> On Wed, 15 Dec 2010 10:20:06 -0800 (PST), "Sarah \"DaffyDumbShit\"
> Palin" <kin...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>>IT MAY SEEM outlandish, or unlawful, but if the U.S. of Firearms is
>>ever to be rescued from the NRA's political "influence," gun-control
>>advocates will have to take a two-step page from the anti-
>>abortionists:
>>
>>1) Target NRA heads; top 40 national-level-politicians receiving NRA
>>contributions; and owners of the largest outlaw gun stores. Then ...
>>
>>2) Assassinate 'em!
>>
> With what knives, or a rolled-up copy of the Washington Post. Afterall
> we know how dangerous that rag is.
Since he is calling for the murder of US politicians I think he needs to tell
it to his cellmate.
Gray Ghost
news:denjg69rdjbjfo418...@4ax.com:
> Ahh Too Many Fools returns. Must have gotten early parole.
Early release. It's to bad they didn't restrict his internet access as a
condition of parole.
Julie Assange
Palin, feel the NRA's hold on "low-lifes," as Sarah secretly terms gun-
owners, is an excellent tool for securing the "dumb'un vote," as
Boehner has stated.
"Keep our hicks duped," Rand Paul said at a recent rally for defeated
Delaware senatorial candidate Christine O'Donnell.
betweentheeyes
>news:4bfbc292-321f-4428-891d->587d16...@j32g2000prh.googlegroups.com...
>
>IT MAY SEEM outlandish, or unlawful, but if the U.S. of
>Firearms is
>ever to be rescued from the NRA's political "influence,"
>gun-control
>advocates will have to take a two-step page from the anti-
>abortionists:
>
>1) Target NRA heads; top 40 national-level-politicians
>receiving NRA
>contributions; and owners of the largest outlaw gun stores.
>Then ...
>
>2) Assassinate 'em!
<snip>
The original post qualifies as a terrorist threat:
http://www.criminalattorney.com/crimes/terrorist_threats.htm
Lets help those boys in blue find the originator (and of
course a it wouldn't be complete without a cc: to
groups...@google.com
Assisting the FBI:
Path:
eternal-september.org!mx03.eternal-september.org!feeder.eternal-september.org!de-l.enfer-du-nord.net!feeder1.enfer-du-nord.net!border1.nntp.ams2.giganews.com!border3.nntp.ams.giganews.com!border1.nntp.ams.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!feeder3.cambriumusenet.nl!feed.tweaknews.nl!postnews.google.com!j32g2000prh.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail
From: "Sarah \"DaffyDumbShit\" Palin" <kin...@yahoo.com>
Newsgroups:
talk.politics.guns,alt.guns,alt.rec.guns,alt.impeach.bush,alt.politics.usa.republicans
Subject: Time To Get DEADLY Serious With The NRA! U.S.
Government Is Afraid
To Stop Gun-Nuts At All Levels!
Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2010 10:20:06 -0800 (PST)
Organization: http://groups.google.com
Lines: 372
Message-ID:
<4bfbc292-321f-4428...@j32g2000prh.googlegroups.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 69.140.253.235
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
X-Trace: posting.google.com 1292437207 6937 127.0.0.1 (15
Dec 2010 18:20:07 GMT)
X-Complaints-To: groups...@google.com
NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2010 18:20:07 +0000 (UTC)
Complaints-To: groups...@google.com
Injection-Info: j32g2000prh.googlegroups.com;
posting-host=69.140.253.235;
posting-account=GauC0QkAAABpjgPOhpafjE_adL3-SytD
User-Agent: G2/1.0
X-HTTP-UserAgent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 6.0;
en-US; rv:1.9.2.13)
Gecko/20101203 Firefox/3.6.13 GTB7.1 (.NET CLR
3.5.30729),gzip(gfe)
Xref: feeder.eternal-september.org talk.politics.guns:266331
alt.guns:33491 alt.rec.guns:11863 alt.impeach.bush:119412
X-Original-Bytes: 19278
Gray Ghost
a31fe4...@j3g2000vbi.googlegroups.com:
Say Julian, you know how you said only you and a few close associates had the
key to unlock your suicide pill file? If the CIA whacked you all who could
decrypt it? Seems that would be the perfect defense.
If I were you I'd get a food tester. Of course now that you're out of Britsh
custody, it should be pretty easy to get a hit team on you. Bye-bye.
RD Sandman
news:q8njg6th92cujmeku...@4ax.com:
> And that is what the infamous "they" don't like. While there are all
> sorts of organizations for various freedoms and the ACLU to provide
> the lawyers for their fight, there is only one major effective
> organization for the protection of the Second Amendment. Funny how
> the freedom loving ALCU doesn't care all that much for that Civil
> Right.
And, openly disagrees with the Supreme Court on Heller and most likely
McDonald.
RD Sandman
news:Xns9E4FF27EDC373We...@216.196.97.142:
No problem, he comes by to take my guns and I'll save America. ;)
--
Sleep well tonight,
RD (The Sandman)
History shows that today's bailout will become
tomorrow's entitlement.
Ron M
<kink...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> IT MAY SEEM outlandish, or unlawful, but if the U.S. of Firearms is
> ever to be rescued from the NRA's political "influence," gun-control
> advocates will have to take a two-step page from the anti-
> abortionists:
>
> 1) Target NRA heads; top 40 national-level-politicians receiving NRA
> contributions; and owners of the largest outlaw gun stores. Then ...
>
> 2) Assassinate 'em!
>
rest of drivel snipped.
So let me get this straight. You are advocating murder. Real
compassionate liberal. Right!!!!!!