Tupac's Homosexuality
ja...@net.com
Tupac's carefully crafted SuperNigga image was a direct result of his
failure to come to terms with the homosexual aspects of his nature. Tupac
was an unusually handsome young man with almost feminine facial features
(such as his very long eyelashes). As a youngster, Tupac was often teased
about his pretty boy looks and his desperate desire not to be perceived as
gay drove his obssessive attempts to be super masculine. That obsession
eventually led to his death.
Homophobia is the underlying force provoking extreme hostility between
young Black males. The natural sexual attraction adolescent males feel for
each other is masked by the posturing, bragging, and ritualistic
demonstrations of superior virility. Each young man is constantly trying
to show he can pull more "bitches", drive fancier cars and make more
money. It is all a manifestation of represssed homosexuality.
As with most young Black males who go to prison, Tupac had to confront
and deal with his latent homosexual feelings for the first time while he
was incarcerated. Being locked up with no access to women, Tupac found
himself surrounded by men seeking to release sexual tensions with other
available males. Tupac's pretty face and celebrity made him a more
desirable sexual prize than Halle Berry in a strip joint. He must have
been propositioned and sweetalked constantly by men who would have given
up all their commissary money and cigarettes to slide some dick in Tupac's
ass. Probably for the first time in his life, Tupac felt what it was like
to be treated like a woman and it fucked him up mentally. I dont know if
he got fucked while imprisoned and I wont even speculate, but when the
rumors of him getting raped began to circulate his attitude hardened.
After his release from prison Tupac projected himself as the Ultimate Thug
Nigga. It was all a front. All you had to do is listen to the amount of
thought, insight, sensitivity and depth of feeling Tupac expressed in his
music to know this exquisitely gifted artist was no thug. Tupac was a
Conflicted and Confused young man who failed to get in touch with his
feminine side.
Too bad he did not meet Dennis Rodman before it was too late.
kxm...@psu.edu
What Kind of sick freak are you to sit back and think up all of this
bullshit?
You probably couldn't name 2Pac's records because you never listened to
them.
How do you know all this?
Are you a fag?
Come Clean, kid and get some nuts.
Gabrielle T. Daniels
On 19 Sep 1996 kxm...@psu.edu wrote back to Jake:
> What Kind of sick freak are you to sit back and think up all of this
> bullshit?
I knew it, I knew it...I knew this would rile folks when I saw it
posted.
Jake may or may not be a troll. But he has a point.
Tupac did come out of prison doing the heavy thug two-step. Was this to
cover up any preception that he might have turned into a 'fairy' or gay
among much larger and dangerous fellow convicts?
This goes to the heart of what is black manhood, and what is being
'hard' (tough) and 'soft' (sensitive).
I think this is worth talking about.
Being a black man does not mean performing a sex act with a groupie in a
bar, and later tossing her over to his posse for a train.
Being a black man does not mean acting volatile and purposely casting
off the good sense the Universe usually gives everyone.
Discuss amongst yourselves.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Cockroach nebber in de right befo' fowl.
(The oppressor always justifies his oppression of the weak.)
TELL MY HORSE, The Rooster's Nest, by Zora Neale Hurston
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Gabrielle T. Daniels-...@ea.oac.uci.edu-Gabrielle T. Daniels
"(She) knew the job was dangerous when (she) took it."--SuperChicken
M.F.A. Candidate in Creative Writing*University of California, Irvine
Dr. Giggles (hehehe)
On 19 Sep 1996 18:59:58 GMT, ja...@net.com wrote:
> Tupac's carefully crafted SuperNigga image was a direct result of his
>failure to come to terms with the homosexual aspects of his nature. Tupac
<snip a doodle>
This was RICH!! This post was so "out there" I just HAD to save it and
frame it on my wall, as well as pass it on to my peeps. World Weekly
News or Nat'l Enquirer could never top this!! You've made my day!
Thanks!!
Dr Giggles -- Giggling like a muthafucka at this shit!! Heheheheeheh!
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Stephen Esquibel
This is some messed up psycho-bullshit that you have thought up.
Nothing against you, but I think that you are way off the mark here.
Christian Mayne
In article <51s57e$v...@ratty.wolfe.net>, ja...@net.com says...
>
> Tupac's carefully crafted SuperNigga image was a direct result of his
>failure to come to terms with the homosexual aspects of his nature. Tupac
One psychotherapist I have spoken to in the past told me that this (repressed
homosexuality) was a reoccuring problem in many of his patients, particularly
those either suffering from homophobia or exaggerated masculinity. He backed
it up with some fairly convincing theory along the lines of the previous
posting.
I can't claim to know much about the subject (and am prepared to be convinced
either way), but the only replies I've read so far seem to treat this idea
with contempt while offering no alternative argument. Any *constructive*
counter-arguments?
Regards
Christian
MM
While I think the first post in this thread was pretty speculative, it did
pose some interesting points to think about. And being a caucasian woman
of middle-class roots, I can't presume to get into the head of my black
brothers and wouldn't want to try to speak for them. But, that said, the
responses were oddly defensive and thoughtless.I've been following posts
about Tupac in a bunch of newsgroups and reactions are so splintered.
Maybe Tupac had some latent homophobia. Maybe he had some latent
homosexuality. Maybe his childhood was fucked up. Maybe he just liked
playing the gansta. Maybe he was the real deal. Maybe he took the
priveleges and trust he was given by our young people and abused their
faith. Maybe he was just a troubled, talented young man. Regardless, it is
a tragic loss when any of our shining stars goes out. And it is a tragedy
that ANY of us feels the need to violently end a conflict. And it is a
tragedy that we are all still so afraid of each other, straight or gay,
black, white, brown, male or female, that we can't see the beauty in each
other and worship that. (Myself included, we all see through a veil
darkly. )
I think it's sad that the news tries to make Tupac's loss a marginalizing
event for hip-hop culture.
I think it's sad that we have to fight over a dead brother, or a rhyme, or
even one hit of crack.
I think it's all sad.
I sat in a crowd watching P-Funk last Sunday, with a bunch of people all
the same dusty color from sweat, sun and dancing in the dirt. And everyone
was mellow with each other, singing "
One Nation Under a Groove" together. Then I thought there was hope for us all.
MM
Spectre
Christian Mayne wrote:
> > Homophobia is the underlying force provoking extreme hostility between
> >young Black males.
Could be. Also could be the female nature of Black society (Strong
Balck women, Black women as the backbone of the Black community, etc)
> >The natural sexual attraction adolescent males feel for
> >each other is masked by the posturing, bragging, and ritualistic
> >demonstrations of superior virility.
> > It is all a manifestation of represssed homosexuality.
> > Tupac was a
> >Conflicted and Confused young man who failed to get in touch with his
> >feminine side.
> > Too bad he did not meet Dennis Rodman before it was too late.
> >
>
> One psychotherapist I have spoken to in the past told me that this (repressed
> homosexuality) was a reoccuring problem in many of his patients, particularly
> those either suffering from homophobia or exaggerated masculinity. He backed
> it up with some fairly convincing theory along the lines of the previous
> posting.----------------------------------------------------------
Getting in touch with your feminine side does not mean you gotta be a
homosexual. This is what the gays want you to believe. Their motto is
"Give up and give in" I say never! Struggle against problems is
healthy. The tension needed to maintain an equilibrium/balance between
male and female generates energy, in the same way piezo electronic
work, where pressure or physical action causes current to flow. Let the
creative juices flow.
Spectre
kxm...@psu.edu
Ok, y'all want to hear some science, well listen up.
I'm the one who posted the "Come Clean" Re:.
The original message posted seemed to make to many assumptions that
only a psychaitrist (whatever the spelling) could make.
>Tupac
>was an unusually handsome young man with almost feminine facial features
>(such as his very long eyelashes). As a youngster, Tupac was often teased
>about his pretty boy looks and his desperate desire not to be perceived as
>gay drove his obssessive attempts to be super masculine. That obsession
>eventually led to his death.
From where does this person get that "Tupac was often teased about his
pretty boy looks.....", did 2Pac ever say this, did you ever hear it
from someone else, or did you make it up?
The tone in that article was not one of compassion that Pac was in that
situation (whether it is true or not) but one of malice. You seem
joyful in your portrayal of the "events that led to his murder."
>Tupac's pretty face and celebrity made him a more
>desirable sexual prize than Halle Berry in a strip joint.
>Too bad he did not meet Dennis Rodman before it was too late.
Many "gangsta rappaz" have insight in their music. They had to have
intelligence to get a contract and an albumn in the first place. You
seem to be assuming that just because Pac had insight he was therefore
different than a typical "gangsta" and therefore wasn't in touch with
his feminine side. By the way, it is wrong to call being
compassionate feminine. If you believe being compassionate is a more
feminine trait than do you believe that being uncompassionate is a male
trait?
Maybe among white Males who have historically been involved in the
destruction of melanin producing peoples around the world becuase of
their fear of "Genetic Anhilation" (Read Cress-Welsings 'Isis Papers').
I think the initial article is what I have just described, the
attempted genocide of people of color. Many whites and sadly some
illaffected others want to portray the genectic material of for example
Black people to be "inferior" (which is suggested in the repressed
homosexuality theme) so they can ease their "Fear Of A Black Planet".
If "Black Males" are homosexuals then Black people may not reproduce
thus, in the minds of whites, won't outnumber whites and provide the
genetic-dominant gene threat.
The person who posted and talked about how we all rolled in dirt and
looked the same is indicating her wish to have the genectic material of
melanin having individuals. She even declares herself as "white
female".
Funny how she practically agrees with the ja...@net.com author, and
doesn't recognize the way the message is written in a hateful tone.
Gabrielle T. Daniels
On 20 Sep 1996, Christian Mayne wrote back to Jake, who said this
controversial squib...
> > Tupac's carefully crafted SuperNigga image was a direct result of his
> >failure to come to terms with the homosexual aspects of his nature. Tupac
> >was an unusually handsome young man with almost feminine facial features
> >(such as his very long eyelashes). As a youngster, Tupac was often teased
> >about his pretty boy looks and his desperate desire not to be perceived as
> >gay drove his obssessive attempts to be super masculine. That obsession
> >eventually led to his death.
[...and other interesting, provoactive and infinitely right-on portions
here cut for space]
> One psychotherapist I have spoken to in the past told me that this (repressed
> homosexuality) was a reoccuring problem in many of his patients, particularly
> those either suffering from homophobia or exaggerated masculinity. He backed
> it up with some fairly convincing theory along the lines of the previous
> posting.
>
> I can't claim to know much about the subject (and am prepared to be convinced
> either way), but the only replies I've read so far seem to treat this idea
> with contempt while offering no alternative argument. Any *constructive*
> counter-arguments?
It would be interesting to see if there are ANY brothers out there
willing to treat this issue with respect, rather with any gay-baiting
and belligerent attitude, using specious religious references (that's
right) and pounding at the chest like Tarzan, trying show how butch they
are and even more so than any other brother. Which got Tupac and guys
like him in trouble in the first place.
It remains to be seen.
I changed the post to the "possible" homosexuality of Tupac Shakur
simply because of the fact that some men can be bisexual rather than
gay. And until some serious biography is written about Tupac, we won't
know for sure how and what he felt. We can only imagine.
At least Dennis Rodman knows who he is. I think he's
every-freaking-body. :D But at least, he is happy.
Everyone should have some alternatives. There should be another identity
for young black men other than 'thug.' And the usual, despicable
n-word.
Gabrielle T. Daniels
On Fri, 20 Sep 1996, Spectre wrote back to Christian Mayne:
> Christian Mayne wrote:
>
> > > Homophobia is the underlying force provoking extreme hostility between
> > >young Black males.
>
> Could be. Also could be the female nature of Black society (Strong
> Balck women, Black women as the backbone of the Black community, etc)
BTW, Spectre, is that really a problem? strong black women, that is?
[other thoughts deleted for space]
> > One psychotherapist I have spoken to in the past told me that this (repressed
> > homosexuality) was a reoccuring problem in many of his patients, particularly
> > those either suffering from homophobia or exaggerated masculinity. He backed
> > it up with some fairly convincing theory along the lines of the previous
> > posting.----------------------------------------------------------
> Getting in touch with your feminine side does not mean you gotta be a
> homosexual.
Very few brothers are in touch with their feminine sides, however. Any
expression of 'softness' can leave a brother open to speculation that he
is gay, worthless, and pliable.
I am in some agreement with this statement. However...
> This is what the gays want you to believe. Their motto is
> "Give up and give in" I say never!
Gays haven't said a word about 'giving up and giving in'; however, some
men and women are not going to be accessible to gays or straights. For
instance, you cannot expect all women to be straight, Spectre, and
therefore open to seduction or courtship to you or any other men.
I say ANY attempt to turn down the volume on the violence and
self-hatred between brothers by getting to the bottom of some dangerous
profiling, posing and pretending is worthwhile.
> Struggle against problems is
> healthy. The tension needed to maintain an equilibrium/balance between
> male and female generates energy, in the same way piezo electronic
> work, where pressure or physical action causes current to flow. Let the
> creative juices flow.
Just being yourself is healthy, whether you are gay or straight. But
like I said, Jake does have a point.
Gabrielle T. Daniels
On 20 Sep 1996 kxm...@psu.edu wrote in response to the following:
> >Tupac
> >was an unusually handsome young man with almost feminine facial features
> >(such as his very long eyelashes). As a youngster, Tupac was often teased
> >about his pretty boy looks and his desperate desire not to be perceived as
> >gay drove his obssessive attempts to be super masculine. That obsession
> >eventually led to his death.
>
> From where does this person get that "Tupac was often teased about his
> pretty boy looks.....", did 2Pac ever say this, did you ever hear it
> from someone else, or did you make it up?
You may want to look over magazine articles on the WWW for answers to
that one. Other than just one magazine...'Vibe.'
Tupac was a handsome young man, and possibly attractive to not only
women, but men as well.
We are all making observations about Tupac now that he is no more.
Since we have to go on with our lives, it may serve others to hear some
alternative views on the nature of young black male masculinity, and
where could it go in some positive directions.
> The tone in that article was not one of compassion that Pac was in that
> situation (whether it is true or not) but one of malice.
Hardly. I didn't read it as such. Some points were rather flip, but
not malicious; the writer was formulating a hypothesis regarding the
connection among views of black masculinity, the thug life, and Tupac's
death.
Perhaps you see malice in that the writer dared to opine about Tupac's
sexuality at all, which is like blowing a few holes into some other
black men's modus operandi. That's not malice. That's a point of view.
> You seem
> joyful in your portrayal of the "events that led to his murder."
You are reading something into Jake's post that isn't there. You're
hoping there IS something there reflecting disrespect. There isn't.
> >Tupac's pretty face and celebrity made him a more
> >desirable sexual prize than Halle Berry in a strip joint.
> >Too bad he did not meet Dennis Rodman before it was too late.
Again, the flip turn.
> Many "gangsta rappaz" have insight in their music. They had to have
> intelligence to get a contract and an albumn in the first place. You
> seem to be assuming that just because Pac had insight he was therefore
> different than a typical "gangsta" and therefore wasn't in touch with
> his feminine side.
Let me tell you a few things, brother.
MANY creative people are in touch with a lot of things, including their
own internal struggles around love, ethics, creativity and the like.
This is beyond getting a record contract. This is not saying he had no
smarts at all. If you work hard, you could make it in some way.
What I am saying is, that as a writer myself, I have observed many other
writers of differing lifestyles and attitudes. Not all creative people
are super-straight, either. They are not supposed to be on the straight
and narrow all the time. Creative people go against what is supposed to
be NORMAL in the eyes of many in their art, which is why some
drink/smoke/sex/power-trip to excess. Some are definitely on the edge,
and unless someone loves these people hard enough, they could go over
the edge. This is what occurred to Tupac.
This is where my sympathy lies about Tupac's demise, but no further.
I think what you're saying is, that as long as Tupac wasn't gay, it was
OK for him to continue to have his creativity, his following and his
career.
It's perfectly OK for him NOT to be gay as well. But the more Tupac
went on the edge being the super-gangsta, the harder it was for him to
pull back and be his gentle self. There were very few in his environment
who would have helped him make that move, especially with Suge Knight
paying the bail and the appeal. But this is where he could have been
even stronger, and walked out of the situation before it became too
life-threatening. Too late now.
> By the way, it is wrong to call being
> compassionate feminine. If you believe being compassionate is a more
> feminine trait than do you believe that being uncompassionate is a male
> trait?
Being compassionate is human. However, if you are busy being this
'hard' guy, there is very little compassion left in you.
> Maybe among white Males who have historically been involved in the
> destruction of melanin producing peoples around the world becuase of
> their fear of "Genetic Anhilation" (Read Cress-Welsings 'Isis Papers').
Oh, please.
Ms. Cress-Welsing's scholarship is interesting, but faulty in some
respects. A best-seller in the community does not make it equal to the
Bible.
> I think the initial article is what I have just described, the
> attempted genocide of people of color. Many whites and sadly some
> illaffected others want to portray the genectic material of for example
> Black people to be "inferior" (which is suggested in the repressed
> homosexuality theme) so they can ease their "Fear Of A Black Planet".
Believe it or not, gays come in all colors. They do not predominate
within other races. A black gay is still black. He doesn't
automatically become inferior because he is black...or gay.
As regards the 'attempted genocide of people of color,' I am quite
confident that black folks will always be here, regardless of certain
black folks' antics as well as white folks' shenanigans.
> If "Black Males" are homosexuals then Black people may not reproduce
> thus, in the minds of whites, won't outnumber whites and provide the
> genetic-dominant gene threat.
Brother, this is not science.
This is propaganda. This is the kind of crypto-occultism that the Nazis
promoted and believed in. Rinse out your mindset.
Homosexuals have always been a minority within all races and colors,
including Europeans and Africans. And believe it or not, a lot of them
have/are having children and hoping to adopt in order to pass on their
names and money onto them.
> Funny how she practically agrees with the ja...@net.com author, and
> doesn't recognize the way the message is written in a hateful tone.
The only hate being expressed here, unfortunately, is yours.
Will Weathersby
You are high as hell talking that "psycho" shit....you and the other
poster bringing up a "possibility" of TUPAC being gay sound like some
stupid ass no common sense having person trying to fit somebody(in this
case a young black man) into a profile you can understand because you
are so out of touch with reality that you can't deal with the real deal.
TUPAC was as gay as Bob Dole is gay ..."ridiculous" and this just your
way of saying "I dont understand that young black person and why he did
all the things he did". Clue: He was just living a life that most WHITE
americans know nothing about but they gladly contribute to the spawning
grounds of despair that TUPAC came from.
Kurt Nordwell P500
As a white male, I wanted to let you know that you are slightly wrong about
white fear regarding African Americans. It is documented (don't have source
handy, but isn't that always the case on the internet) that the fear is based
on the assumption the African (American) males are more sexually proficient,
and therefore a threat. They are going to take the white women away. We all
know that this is a myth, right?
Also, I had heard somewhere that the African American community was not very
tolerant of homosexuality. The Republican Party was using this fact to try to
recruit blacks. Is that the case? No flames please, I am just curious.
Peace, love, and Frank Zappa,
Kurt
Jacob Bentley
On Fri, 20 Sep 1996, Spectre wrote:
> Getting in touch with your feminine side does not mean you gotta be a
> homosexual.
exactly ... certain brothers have a problem with admitting another man is
attractive ... while many women seem to be more comfortable giving another
sister props
a female friend of mine was trying to hook me up with her friend ... i
asked her "does she have a big *butt*" ??? she responded with, "how am i
supposed to know ??? i ain't gay !!! now really, you don't have to be a
homosexual just because you can identify with someones' attractiveness ...
several of my niggas/homeboys/friends are attractive ... i know this, but
it doesn't make me gay ... it does help when i'm hollerin at a sister and
her friend(s) likes my friend(s) ... it makes things a whole lot easier
and, if i'm hooking up a friend of mine with a sister, i'll tell her the
truth ... EX: he's 6 foot 2, muscular, has long eyelashes, etc...
AND ... i don't really think any of this is "getting in touch with your
feminine side" ... i think it's just being real about who you are
i'm gonna love black women till the day i die, but i can still "see" if a
brother is attractive
peace,
jacob
Gabrielle T. Daniels
More denial...
On Fri, 20 Sep 1996, Will Weathersby wrote:
> You are high as hell talking that "psycho" shit....you and the other
> poster bringing up a "possibility" of TUPAC being gay sound like some
> stupid ass no common sense having person trying to fit somebody(in this
> case a young black man) into a profile you can understand because you
> are so out of touch with reality that you can't deal with the real deal.
Maybe YOU cannot deal with the 'real deal,' Will. To me, your diatribe
is yet more chest-beating about 'Saint' Tupac's spotless manhood, and
yours by extension.
I'm going be more clear this time: black manhood in my opinion does not
mean delving into hood behavior, like carrying unregistered guns,
rumbling with other hoods to the detriment of others in the community,
and then some.
> TUPAC was as gay as Bob Dole is gay ..."ridiculous" and this just your
> way of saying "I dont understand that young black person and why he did
> all the things he did".
Bob Dole is a guy who faced the loss of his vital limbs and organs
and the possibility of being feminized because of it for the rest of his
life. A lot of times, Dole overcompensates on the masculinity number
himself, and brings up his war record and catastrophic wounds time and
again, as if to remind us that despite everything he's still a man. I
get sick of hearing and seeing it. Not because I have no appreciation
for the thousands of Americans who gave their best for their country in
WWII. But manhood is not just the 'warrior' image and should not be the
most important image.
Sounds a lot like Tupac and his occasional public squalls.
Shows how much you know about the issue the other poster and I have
attempted to point out. I suggest you reread what I've said on DejaNews
to get a clue.
> Clue: He was just living a life that most WHITE
> americans know nothing about but they gladly contribute to the spawning
> grounds of despair that TUPAC came from.
First of all, I've been black for 42 years.
Second, if you want to talk about who's been investing in Death Row
Records since Time Warner unloaded it after pressure from Tucker and
Bennett, I can let you know that Edgar Bronfman of Seagrams is
a major stockholder, along with Frederick Field of the Marshall Field
chain. This is from this week's Newsweek article.
A full listing of who owns what with Interscope and Death Row may be a
matter of public record. These cats also contribute to Clinton's
campaign. Look it up.
Discuss your gripes with white Americans with them, and not me, brother.
talk2me1
Maybe he was gay (or perhaps Bisexual)..so what....why cant some black
people understand that being gay is a possibility?????
Will Weathersby <weat...@lava.net> wrote:
>You are high as hell talking that "psycho" shit....you and the other
>poster bringing up a "possibility" of TUPAC being gay sound like some
>stupid ass no common sense having person trying to fit somebody(in this
>case a young black man) into a profile you can understand because you
>are so out of touch with reality that you can't deal with the real deal.
>TUPAC was as gay as Bob Dole is gay ..."ridiculous" and this just your
>way of saying "I dont understand that young black person and why he did
>all the things he did". Clue: He was just living a life that most WHITE
talk2me1
You are right. One of the problems is some black brothers do not want to
confront the issues and learn from the mistakes of people like TuPac.
Such a pity.
"Gabrielle T. Daniels" <gdan...@rigel.oac.uci.edu> wrote:
>
>More denial...
>
>On Fri, 20 Sep 1996, Will Weathersby wrote:
>
>> You are high as hell talking that "psycho" shit....you and the other
>> poster bringing up a "possibility" of TUPAC being gay sound like some
>> stupid ass no common sense having person trying to fit somebody(in this
>> case a young black man) into a profile you can understand because you
>> are so out of touch with reality that you can't deal with the real deal.
>
>Maybe YOU cannot deal with the 'real deal,' Will. To me, your diatribe
>is yet more chest-beating about 'Saint' Tupac's spotless manhood, and
>yours by extension.
>
>I'm going be more clear this time: black manhood in my opinion does not
>mean delving into hood behavior, like carrying unregistered guns,
>rumbling with other hoods to the detriment of others in the community,
>and then some.
>
>> TUPAC was as gay as Bob Dole is gay ..."ridiculous" and this just your
>> way of saying "I dont understand that young black person and why he did
>> all the things he did".
>
>Bob Dole is a guy who faced the loss of his vital limbs and organs
>and the possibility of being feminized because of it for the rest of his
>life. A lot of times, Dole overcompensates on the masculinity number
>himself, and brings up his war record and catastrophic wounds time and
>again, as if to remind us that despite everything he's still a man. I
>get sick of hearing and seeing it. Not because I have no appreciation
>for the thousands of Americans who gave their best for their country in
>WWII. But manhood is not just the 'warrior' image and should not be the
>most important image.
>
>Sounds a lot like Tupac and his occasional public squalls.
>
>Shows how much you know about the issue the other poster and I have
>attempted to point out. I suggest you reread what I've said on DejaNews
>to get a clue.
>
>> Clue: He was just living a life that most WHITE
>> americans know nothing about but they gladly contribute to the spawning
>> grounds of despair that TUPAC came from.
>
BRANDEN
Ok you SUPERFAGGOT, YOUR OBVIOUSLY ONE OF THE GAY ONES!!!!!!1
talk2me1
No at least he has brains and is thinking like a rational human being,
unlike you, shit for brains.
attractiveness ...
kxm...@psu.edu
Ms. Daniels, please sister do not fear the facts.
How can you compare the deduction of Ms. Welsing "nazi."
This is an insult, and to look at the whole situation objectively,
even if what is being said about the "race situation" is "wrong" it is
coming from the victims. You gotta be confused to attack the response
coming from the victims of the worst holocaust in human history (the
murder of approximately 200 million people in the institution of
slavery) to even contemplate comparing the victims to "Hitler."
The thought of even knowing that I had to mention "Hitler" in the same
sentence itself makes me angry.
Gabrielle T. Daniels
On 21 Sep 1996, talk2me1 wrote:
> Maybe he was gay (or perhaps bisexual)..so what....why cant some black
> people understand that being gay is a possibility?????
Even a possibility is a threat to folks, especially if we have color to
worry about.
We want to fit; therefore another count against not fitting is a slur
against black people.
When it should be something positive.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^GREEK TALES of INTERRACIAL LOVE^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
'Perseus paused for refreshment at Chemnis in Egypt, where he is still
worshipped, and then flew on (riding Pegasus). As he rounded the coast
of Philistia to the north, he caught sight of a naked woman chained to a
sea-cliff and instantly fell in love with her. This was Andromeda,
daughter of Cepheus, the Ethiopian King of Joppa, and Cassiopeia...'
Robert Graves, The Greek Myths: 1, p. 240.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Gabrielle T. Daniels-...@ea.oac.uci.edu-Gabrielle T. Daniels
kxm...@psu.edu
Ms. Daniels, why do you keep attaching this "Greek Tales Of
Interracial Love" madness to your posts?
Are you in a interracial relationship or ever have been?
Maybe this is the reason you been attacking 2Pac. It is an extension
of your self-hatred of yourself and your "dissatisfaction" with the
Black Man.
Please dot tell me that you believe that a white man can help you deal
with the pressures of racism when he has never experienced the kind of
pain that Black people experience.
Running from the Black man is never going to give you acceptance into
the mainstream white community.
Gabrielle T. Daniels
On 21 Sep 1996, talk2me1 wrote:
> Maybe he was gay (or perhaps Bisexual)..so what....why cant some black
> people understand that being gay is a possibility?????
I've already answered this question in another post, but something else
struck me as well.
If Tupac was raped or molested while in prison, it stands to reason that
he was not courted or seduced in the usual manner straights and gays are
used to.
Rape is not love, affection, or feeling. It's the death of feeling.
It's a negative expression of power and force. It doesn't matter
whether it is homosexual or heterosexual sex. To suggest that what gays
primarily do is rape is erroneous. Rape is a power trip exclusive to
no sexual group.
Now, if Tupac had not been forced, and received affection from a man in
prison, then it would be counted as an affirmation of the best a human
being can offer another in such an awful and degrading situation.
We can only hope.
So we have to look at the possibility that Tupac didn't have any
positive sexual encounters in prison. Let me say that most men in prison
are straight, but it is the prison environment which causes most men to
go to other men for sexual release and pleasure. After prison, these
ex-cons usually revert back to heterosexuality or prefer bisexuality.
It's unfortunate that Tupac came out of prison set on being badder than
any MF that walked the streets. And like I said, he didn't have to
prove anything to me to get respect. The idea that he may have gone
soft while in prison, or even less a man, is erroneous. No person
surviving that s--t is less ANYBODY.
Gabrielle T. Daniels
On Sat, 21 Sep 1996, BRANDEN wrote back to Jacob Bentley:
> > i'm gonna love black women till the day i die, but i can still "see" if a
> > brother is attractive
>
> Ok you SUPERFAGGOT, YOUR OBVIOUSLY ONE OF THE GAY ONES!!!!!!1
You think that just because Jacob looks at men he's gay?
Women look at women all the time, and they are not being lesbian when
they do this. They examine hair, complexion, eyes, clothing, shoes,
voice, breasts, etc.
Usually it's a competitive thing, comparing what we look like to others
and how we can improve ourselves, or simply give props where props are
due in looking GOOD.
Now if some are lesbian, there would be some different criteria
regarding this, but otherwise, women don't have any problems checking
women out.
This is not a true expression of gayness. Everyone female does it,
regardless of sexual orientation.
Gabrielle T. Daniels
On 22 Sep 1996 kxm...@psu.edu wrote:
> Ms. Daniels, please sister do not fear the facts.
What 'facts'? Ms. Cress-Welsing's scholarship feeds on fear. I've read
parts of her work.
> How can you compare the deduction of Ms. Welsing "nazi."
I said, it sounds like crypto-occultism, and additionally, biological
determinism. This is something of what the Nazis preached, and most of
their ideology came from the occult, with contributions from Darwin,
Blavatsky, Nietzche, Chamberlain and others. She and some other would-be
scholars are, unfortunately, the flip side of 'The Bell Curve.'
Just my opinion.
Apparently, you aren't as well read as you think you are, brother.
Expand your reading list.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^GREEK TALES of INTERRACIAL LOVE^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
'Perseus paused for refreshment at Chemnis in Egypt, where he is still
worshipped, and then flew on (riding Pegasus). As he rounded the coast
of Philistia to the north, he caught sight of a naked woman chained to a
sea-cliff and instantly fell in love with her. This was Andromeda,
daughter of Cepheus, the Ethiopian King of Joppa, and Cassiopeia...'
Robert Graves, The Greek Myths: 1, p. 240.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Gabrielle T. Daniels-...@ea.oac.uci.edu-Gabrielle T. Daniels
Gabrielle T. Daniels
On 22 Sep 1996 kxm...@psu.edu wrote:
> Ms. Daniels, why do you keep attaching this "Greek Tales Of
> Interracial Love" madness to your posts?
Apparently, you've never not been on soc.culture.african.american for
too long. Those who have, know of my interest in history, mythologies
and the like.
The Perseus and Andromeda myth gets short shrift by Hollywood, if anyone
who has seen "Clash of the Titans" can tell. The Greeks considered
black people to be closer to the gods than they were, and incorporated
the story of Perseus in their tales. Ever read Frank-?- Snowden?
Madness it isn't.
> Are you in a interracial relationship or ever have been?
>
> Maybe this is the reason you been attacking 2Pac. It is an extension
> of your self-hatred of yourself and your "dissatisfaction" with the
> Black Man.
Bullshit.
I hate these little youthful Podunk pseudo-historians who make excuses
for other people's behavior, and try to find some personal 'reason' why
others refuse stomach this detrimental, murderous acting-up.
I suggest you focus on what "60 Minutes" offered tonight around the
Malice Green killing. The white cops who were responsible think they
were railroaded simply because they were white. The case is in appeal.
I don't believe cops set up Tupac. Young black men killed Tupac.
Christian Mayne
In article <32446D...@erinet.com>, mob...@erinet.com says...
>
>Jacob Bentley wrote:
>>
>> On Fri, 20 Sep 1996, Spectre wrote:
>>
>> > Getting in touch with your feminine side does not mean you gotta be a
>> > homosexual.
>>
>> exactly ... certain brothers have a problem with admitting another man is
>> attractive ... while many women seem to be more comfortable giving another
>> sister props
>>
>> a female friend of mine was trying to hook me up with her friend ... i
>> asked her "does she have a big *butt*" ??? she responded with, "how am i
>> supposed to know ??? i ain't gay !!! now really, you don't have to be a
>> homosexual just because you can identify with someones' attractiveness ...
>>
>> several of my niggas/homeboys/friends are attractive ... i know this, but
>> it doesn't make me gay ... it does help when i'm hollerin at a sister and
>> her friend(s) likes my friend(s) ... it makes things a whole lot easier
>>
>> and, if i'm hooking up a friend of mine with a sister, i'll tell her the
>>
>> AND ... i don't really think any of this is "getting in touch with your
>> feminine side" ... i think it's just being real about who you are
>>
>> brother is attractive
>>
>> jacob
>
>
>Ok you SUPERFAGGOT, YOUR OBVIOUSLY ONE OF THE GAY ONES!!!!!!1
I think the above post speaks for itself. I have the number of a good
psychotherapist if your interested.
Christian
Joseph S Grossberg
:
I think, if I remember correctly, she was comparing the general
methodology of Ms. Welsing and Hitler's cronies, not equating them in any
other regard.
And though they may display dissimilarity in other regards, people as
diverse as Leonard Jeffries and Adolf Hitler shroud their ulterior motives
of hate and contempt in "facts", "science", "research" and
"pseudo-science" to lend their crap theories some semblance of legitimacy.
For example, it is a lot easier for voters in Louisiana to legitimize (to
themselves, as well as others) voting for David Duke because of his
positions of welfare, affirmative-action, immigration, etc ... than it
would be if he was more upfront about what he was really saying and saved
them all the trouble of reading between the lines.
I haven't read Ms. Welsing's work, so I can't speak very knowledgeably on
her stuff, but accusing her of using the same false methodology of Nazis
and saying she is as evil as the Nazis are two different things.
Joe.
Gabrielle T. Daniels
On 23 Sep 1996, Christian Mayne wrote about Jacob's post
>>>> Getting in touch with your feminine side does not mean you gotta be a
>>>> homosexual.
> >>
>>> exactly ... certain brothers have a problem with admitting another man is
>>> attractive ... while many women seem to be more comfortable giving another
>>> sister props
> >
> >Ok you SUPERFAGGOT, YOUR OBVIOUSLY ONE OF THE GAY ONES!!!!!!
>
> I think the above post speaks for itself. I have the number of a good
> psychotherapist if your interested.
This post seems ambiguous, but here goes. The best a shrink can do is
help the brother come to terms with his identity...even the Freudians
are pretty resigned to this as well.
Someone who is homosexual cannot change his inclination...any stories
you've heard are based on lies the person told him/herself. Eventually,
they revert.
Jacob seems pretty normal, no matter what his identity is.
Joseph S Grossberg
Sorry to jump on the bandwagon, all. But I gotta add my 2 cents.
BRANDEN (mob...@erinet.com) wrote:
: Jacob Bentley wrote:
: >
[snip]
: Ok you SUPERFAGGOT, YOUR OBVIOUSLY ONE OF THE GAY ONES!!!!!!1
Do your boys think you are a fat ugly beast? Do you think they all look
disgusting?
And how do you (they) know? Cuz, whether or not y'all want to admit it,
you guys have looked at and evaluated eachother on a "looks" basis at some
point. Does that make you a "SUPERFAGGOT" or "ONE OF THE GAY ONES"? Of
course not.
The fact that I recognize Denzel Washington as being handsome and Biz
Markie as being ugly does not mean I want to screw either of them!
Let me ask you a question ... which do you think looks better? Oh, well
you must be gay (or bisexual) now cuz you just evaluated two guys on the
basis of their attractiveness. See how ludicrous you sound?
Joe.
carlosq
Gabrielle T. Daniels (gdan...@rigel.oac.uci.edu) wrote:
> Tupac did come out of prison doing the heavy thug two-step. Was this to
> cover up any preception that he might have turned into a 'fairy' or gay
> among much larger and dangerous fellow convicts?
**Gabrielle, your comments are right on!
**I think the original poster erred in equating young (Black) men's fear
of being in touch with their feminine side with homosexuality. These are
two different things entirely. (Cf. C. G. Jung) Scares the shit out of a
lot of guys when they confront it -- say, in an altered state of
consciousness. (Cf. Stanislas Grof, "LSD Psychotherapy)
> This goes to the heart of what is black manhood, and what is being
> 'hard' (tough) and 'soft' (sensitive).
> I think this is worth talking about.
**Oh yes!
> Being a black man does not mean performing a sex act with a groupie in a
> bar, and later tossing her over to his posse for a train.
>
> Being a black man does not mean acting volatile and purposely casting
> off the good sense the Universe usually gives everyone.
>
> Discuss amongst yourselves.
**I like to save the machismo for the bedroom, where it's appreciated ;-)
and even then it's a matter of posturing, when the mood is right.
carlosq
Kurt Nordwell P500
"Gabrielle T. Daniels" <gdan...@oac.uci.edu> wrote:
big snip
>
>I suggest you focus on what "60 Minutes" offered tonight around the
>Malice Green killing. The white cops who were responsible think they
>were railroaded simply because they were white. The case is in appeal.
>
I saw that segment, and there were serious problems with the way the case
was handled. There was also no doubt in my mind that the prosecutor (now a
judge) was racially motivated. Showing the jury "Malcolm X" during
deliberations
is enough for a new trial in my book. I am not saying that those cops did not
kill Malice Green, but they sure as shit did not get a fair trial.
Kurt
Kurt Nordwell P500
Maurice Mckinley
TO: GDAN...@OAC.UCI.EDU
GT>_@SUBJECT:Re: Tupac's Homosexuality
GT>_@N FROM :gdan...@oac.uci.edu
GT>_@N MSGID
GT>:<Pine.SOL.3.93.96092...@rigel.oac.uci.edu> N Path:
GT>news2.noc.netcom.net!noc.netcom.net!ix.netcom.com!ix.netcom.com!news-
pee
GT>r.gsl.net!news.gsl.net From: "Gabrielle T. Daniels"
GT><gdan...@oac.uci.edu> Newsgroups:
GT>alt.rap,rec.music.hip-hop,soc.culture.african.american,rec.music.funk
GT>y Subject: Re: Tupac's Homosexuality Date: Sun, 22 Sep 1996 21:22:27
GT>-0700 Message-ID:
GT><Pine.SOL.3.93.96092...@rigel.oac.uci.edu> To:
GT>kxm...@psu.edu
GT>On 22 Sep 1996 kxm...@psu.edu wrote:
GT>> Ms. Daniels, why do you keep attaching this "Greek Tales Of
GT>> Interracial Love" madness to your posts?
GT>Apparently, you've never not been on soc.culture.african.american for
GT>too long. Those who have, know of my interest in history,
GT>mythologies and the like.
GT>The Perseus and Andromeda myth gets short shrift by Hollywood, if
GT>anyone who has seen "Clash of the Titans" can tell. The Greeks
GT>considered black people to be closer to the gods than they were, and
GT>incorporated the story of Perseus in their tales. Ever read Frank-?-
GT>Snowden?
GT>Madness it isn't.
GT>> Are you in a interracial relationship or ever have been?
GT>> Maybe this is the reason you been attacking 2Pac. It is an
GT>> extension of your self-hatred of yourself and your
GT>> "dissatisfaction" with the Black Man.
GT>Bullshit.
GT>I hate these little youthful Podunk pseudo-historians who make
GT>excuses for other people's behavior, and try to find some personal
GT>'reason' why others refuse stomach this detrimental, murderous
GT>acting-up.
You didn't answer the question, are you or have you been into white
boys?
GT>I suggest you focus on what "60 Minutes" offered tonight around the
GT>Malice Green killing. The white cops who were responsible think they
GT>were railroaded simply because they were white. The case is in
GT>appeal.
GT>I don't believe cops set up Tupac. Young black men killed Tupac.
GT>^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^GREEK TALES of INTERRACIAL
GT>LOVE^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ 'Perseus paused for refreshment at Chemnis
GT>in Egypt, where he is still worshipped, and then flew on (riding
GT>Pegasus). As he rounded the coast of Philistia to the north, he
GT>caught sight of a naked woman chained to a sea-cliff and instantly
GT>fell in love with her. This was Andromeda, daughter of Cepheus, the
GT>Ethiopian King of Joppa, and Cassiopeia...'
GT>Robert Graves, The Greek Myths: 1, p. 240.
GT>^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
GT>^^ Gabrielle T. Daniels-...@ea.oac.uci.edu-Gabrielle T.
GT>Daniels M.F.A. Candidate in Creative Writing*University of
GT>California, Irvine
09/23/96
---
. CMPQwk #1.42. UNREGISTERED EVALUATION COPY
Joseph S Grossberg
kxm...@psu.edu wrote:
: Ms. Daniels, why do you keep attaching this "Greek Tales Of
: Interracial Love" madness to your posts?
What is "madness" about it? That the idea of love transcending other
despite cultural differences has been revered for millenia. If you read
the whole .sig you would see that she is a Master's Candidate in Creative
Writing and that literature is her interest.
: Are you in a interracial relationship or ever have been?
So you're saying the fact that she may have dated a white, latin, asian or
other non-black man at some point in her life (1) makes her a hater of
black men and (2) removes all credibility about what she may about one of
the biggest pieces of shit ever to "grace" the world of hip-hop?
: Maybe this is the reason you been attacking 2Pac. It is an extension
: of your self-hatred of yourself and your "dissatisfaction" with the
: Black Man.
Maybe not. Maybe the fact Tupac got convicted of raping a woman in his
hotel room and his "I get around" posturing and the fact that her
adultered with and then slandered a married black woman (Faith Evans) has
to do with her "dissatisfaction" of a man who all but embodies misogyny.
You make a lot of assumptions there, based on her .plan, kid.
: Please dot tell me that you believe that a white man can help you deal
: with the pressures of racism when he has never experienced the kind of
: pain that Black people experience.
A good, sensitive, caring white man would have been a lot better for the
girl raped in Pac's hotel room ...
And yes, a white (or other non-black) man can "help [her] deal with the
pressures of racism ...". Do recovering alcoholics have to marry other
former drunks just cuz no one else has been through what they have? Can no
one except other victims of child abuse or spousal abuse help those who
have experienced such? Do homeless people have to turn only to other
homeless people for understanding about their plight? What kind of faulty
fucked-up "logic" is this? Inteligence, sincerity, and sensitivity are a
lot more important in helping one deal with some shit one has been through
than just being a member of the same group.
Do you know what it is like to be a black *woman*? Have you ever
experienced the pain of being a black woman? Does that disqualify you from
helping one deal with the struggles of life?
: Running from the Black man is never going to give you acceptance into
: the mainstream white community.
:
What do you propose? That everyone date only within the same race,
religion, ethnicity, socio-economic background, birthplace (cuz you know
NY-ers don't understand the Compton experience or Detroit heads don't know
what it's like to be black down south), etc ... ?
You make a lot of assumptions here, kid. There is a big difference between
"running from THE black man" and running from "A" black man (i.e. Pac) who
glorified violence towards other black men and violence toward women.
Joe.
kxm...@psu.edu
I'm glad that all of you respond so indignantly,
now I know your reading my posts regarding "Welsing"
Why are some people so quick to admit to Black people being "racists"
but so hesitant to call White people racists.
It is impossible to compare the Black experience to anyhting else (like
alcoholism etc.)
because nothing else has ever been as bad as its been for so long.
Your making many assumptions about my posts, like I'm trying to defend
2Pac
for what he may (or may not have) done.
Damn.
The Greeks never loved Africans.
The n-word was derived from the Greek word Neckra (pronounciation).
Gabrielle T. Daniels
On 25 Sep 1996 kxm...@psu.edu wrote:
> I'm glad that all of you respond so indignantly,
> now I know your reading my posts regarding "Welsing"
> Why are some people so quick to admit to Black people being "racists"
> but so hesitant to call White people racists.
This is a lie.
Black people can be prejudiced but not racist. Simply because of the
fact they are not in power positions or institutions.
I'm hesitant to call all white people racist. But I can also call Ms.
Cress-Welsing's theories specious and valueless.
> It is impossible to compare the Black experience to anyhting else (like
> alcoholism etc.)
> because nothing else has ever been as bad as its been for so long.
Racism is not alcoholism. Where did you get such an erroneous
supposition?
> Your making many assumptions about my posts, like I'm trying to defend
> 2Pac for what he may (or may not have) done.
Sure looks like it.
> Damn.
> The Greeks never loved Africans.
And you've never read Snowden's books on blacks in antiquity (ancient
Greece and Rome, to you). Snowden is black and an accomplished
academic. Unfortunately, he's gotten in with the anti-'Black Athena'
bunch.
Apparently you've never seen much Greek art, haven't you?
They sure had a love affair putting our faces and figures on Greek
vases, bowls, and other pottery.
> The n-word was derived from the Greek word Neckra (pronounciation).
This too, is a lie and an obfuscation.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^GREEK TALES of INTERRACIAL LOVE^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
'Perseus paused for refreshment at Chemnis in Egypt, where he is still
worshipped, and then flew on (riding Pegasus). As he rounded the coast
of Philistia to the north, he caught sight of a naked woman chained to a
sea-cliff and instantly fell in love with her. This was Andromeda,
daughter of Cepheus, the Ethiopian King of Joppa, and Cassiopeia...'
Robert Graves, The Greek Myths: 1, p. 240.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Gabrielle T. Daniels-...@ea.oac.uci.edu-Gabrielle T. Daniels
M.F.A. Candidate in Creative Writing*University of California, Irvine
kxm...@psu.edu
Ms. Daniels, why do you keep trying to prove that Greeks loved
Africans.
They ENVIED Africans.
Cause damn they wish they had those genes.
You misunderstood the quote about "Black people being racist."
I was saying that in effect whites can sit back and call Black people
racist (which is impossible as you described with the power aspect) but
can't do nothing about the racism in their own communities.
Since you are so knowledgable about the Greek-related topics, didn't
they conquer Africa and enslave African people and attempt to destroy
African civilization?
The thing about the Greek word is not a lie, it may be a mistake by
me, but I didn't put it there to lie, I believe I heard from Minister
Rasul Muhammad from the NOI in a speech at the University Of Miami last
spring.
My comparison of racisam and alcoholism was a reference to a comparison
made by a Joseph or something.
Before you quote me please read everything that lead up to it.
No disrespect.
Gabrielle T. Daniels
On 26 Sep 1996 kxm...@psu.edu wrote:
> Ms. Daniels, why do you keep trying to prove that Greeks loved
> Africans.
They did.
> They ENVIED Africans.
They admired them, too.
> Cause damn they wish they had those genes.
Have you ever considered that Greeks and Italians can be the darkest
white folks in Europe? Somehow, they got some of those genes, or had
them already.
> You misunderstood the quote about "Black people being racist."
> I was saying that in effect whites can sit back and call Black people
> racist (which is impossible as you described with the power aspect) but
> can't do nothing about the racism in their own communities.
You mean "refuse to do nothing about the racism in their own
communities."
There's been a few whites in my acquaintance who have resisted that
siren call of accepting the group dynamic of being racist toward blacks
and people of color from childhood. I don't doubt their commitment to
working on their own internalized racism.
> Since you are so knowledgable about the Greek-related topics, didn't
> they conquer Africa and enslave African people and attempt to destroy
> African civilization?
You mean the known African world at that time? Anything touching the
Mediterranean, right?
They weren't the only ones being conquered. Besides that, Alexander the
Great was not considered a real Greek even by Greeks. Macedon was
thought of as the lowest of the low, not like Athens or Sparta. They
even laughed at Philip, his father, for even insisting that he was a
king.
Think of this, brother. Whenever a country seeks to dominate or
colonize other countries, hegemony is all. Alexander travelled as far
as India as well as Egypt: looting, pillaging, and spreading his idea of
Hellenism far and wide. This is not something which is only attributable
to whites. Black conquerors did it, too. Especially those who were
spreading Islam with the sword.
Of course, I remember during one of Michael Wood's documentaries, he
retailed what the Egyptians thought of the marauders from across the
sea: "We taught these (barbarians) all they know." Meaning, what the
scholarly Greeks learned from the Egyptian scholars and priests,
incorporated their philosophy and later tried to regale to the
Egyptians when they returned as conquerors.
> The thing about the Greek word is not a lie, it may be a mistake by
> me, but I didn't put it there to lie, I believe I heard from Minister
> Rasul Muhammad from the NOI in a speech at the University Of Miami last
> spring.
So you believe everything you hear from the NOI? Don't you look up
stuff to find out for sure?
Here's some homework, brother. Look up the words, 'niggardly,'
'niggard,' and 'n-word.' Not in some dictionary in bookstores, but in
the LIBRARY. Those big, thick suckers that would kill your foot if it
fell on you. Check when it was copyrighted: the 1980s or the 1990s.
Tell me what you find out.
Joseph S Grossberg
: Cause damn they wish they had those genes.
I'll pretend that that last line is just a poorly phrases thought, rather
than the implication that African people are somehow genetically superior
to Greeks ...
: You misunderstood the quote about "Black people being racist."
: I was saying that in effect whites can sit back and call Black people
: racist (which is impossible as you described with the power aspect)
So you're telling me that if I get jumped by some moron just because I'm
white that it isn't "racist". I think that is an attempt at changing the
definition of "racism" to suit one's own needs.
: but can't do nothing about the racism in their own communities.
Yeah, but the same thing could be said about black people. No group of
human beings has been pure saints, but that does not mean that they
cannot criticize others. Call it hypochrisy, but I think that imperfect
people can have a legitimate point about others' faults sometimes.
: Since you are so knowledgable about the Greek-related topics, didn't
: they conquer Africa
No. Parts of Africa, as in some areas north of the Sahara desert. Look at
a map, that will show you how misleading the statement "Greeks conquered
Africa" is. Africa is a big place, and Greek influence/power was basically
confined to places like Egypt, Libya, Tunisia, etc ...
: and enslave African people and attempt to destroy African civilization?
No more so than the Egyptians or various empires of west Africa who went
around conquering and enslaving black people. Also, slavery in Greece was
a class thing, not a racial thing. I am not justifying it, just pointing
out that the race-based slavery of European colonies and the economic
slavery of ancient empires (e.g. Romans had Roman slaves and Greeks had
slaves who were ethnically Greek) are not perfect parallels.
: The thing about the Greek word is not a lie, it may be a mistake by
: me,
I think it is an incorrect etymology. I believe that the word "nigger" is
a mispronunciation of "negro/negra", the Spanish word for "black" (as in
the color of coal and ebony, later applied to African-Americans).
: but I didn't put it there to lie, I believe I heard from Minister
: Rasul Muhammad from the NOI in a speech at the University Of Miami last
: spring.
I know it's as played as expressions get, but you shouldn't believe
everything you hear ... A lot of Nation of Islam "facts" are shrouded in
mysticism (e.g. all the numerology references in Farrakhan's Million Man
March speech), but if it gets you thinking and sparks a dialogue, hey.
Just don't take things at face value.
: My comparison of racisam and alcoholism was a reference to a comparison
: made by a Joseph or something.
Yeah. That was me. let me explain:
You made a statement to the effect of "a white man cannot fully understand
the racism you have gone through". I took that to mean that a white
boyfriend could, inherently and by virtue of his whiteness, do her no good
(I'm still not sure if that was the implication or I'm jumping to
conclusions), which is an assertion I disagree with.
Where the alcoholism analogy came from was that I was trying to parallel
how a recovering alcoholic can still have a relatoionship with someone who
doesn't understand what they've been through first-hand. Similarly, a
black woman can find compassion and understanding in a sensitive/
intelligent enough white man *even though he has not personally
experienced anti-black racism*.
To make a long story short, my point was that I don't think that a person
has to have personally experienced what their man/woman has gone through
to be understanding about it. Dig? I realize it was an obtuse analogy, but
if you read the sentence "to make a long ...about it." again, maybe you'll
see what I was trying to say.
: Before you quote me please read everything that lead up to it.
: No disrespect.
Yeah. My bad for getting a little heated myself, kid. Still, though, do
you think that an inter-racial relationship is inherently wrong or a
failure? Not putting words in your mouth, just trying to see where you're
coming form on this one.
Joe.
Bryan J. Zygmont
Why don't all you freak's get off of Tupac's dick? The man is dead, let
him rest in peace...half of the posts on this newsgroup have to do with
Tupac's sexual orientation. When everyone again starts talking about
music and hip hop, I'll consider reading what's written (as opposed to
deleting everything that has to do with Tupac).
Lates,
B
----------------------
Put your advertisement here! For the low, low cost of only $15 per week,
have your product or service displayed to all of Bryan's email parties.
Send information requests to zyg...@u.arizona.edu.
Gabrielle T. Daniels
This brother's got a hard noggin to get through to.
On 27 Sep 1996 kxm...@psu.edu wrote:
> Why do you try to come up with excuses for white peoples' behavior?
I don't excuse any of them; including those who are working on their
racism. They're still working on it.
> You seem to be apologizing for them.
That's your point of view.
> Well, yeah the whole world has always been fighting each other so I
> guess the Black experience wasn't all that bad...
Our experience has been horrific...as well as full of honor, majesty,
justice, and dignity.
As far as "the whole world always fighting each other"--I'm not sure
what the hell you mean by that.
If you mean that the war record of African kings and warriors should be
exempt from scrutiny simply because they were black is ludicrous. I
would be more favorably inclined towards men and women who fought wars
of independence and of liberation. However, African warriors fought
mostly wars of conquest and hegemony...just like the nasty Europeans.
These men also tortured, maimed, raped and looted subject peoples,
whether in the name of Allah or for their own self-aggrandisement. I
can feel awe about these men, but I can also imagine what pain they
inflicted on others.
Most men who have made war are like this. It doesn't exempt black men.
> I hope this is not what your implying.
Read the above. I'm quite sure you are from Mars.
> If the Greeks suposively got their idea of conquering from the
> Egyptians, then why were the weapons of the Greeks so more advanced
> than the Egyptians.
>
> The Greeks had more advanced weapons because that's all they did was
> fight, in other words they had a lot of practice fighting among
> themselves(Greeks).
The Greeks themselves were not a united people until Alexander came
along. Separately, they were city states, republics and kingdoms. Some
national entities like Sparta were more warlike than others. They were
occasionally trying to defend themselves, if not from each other, but
other empires like that of the Persians.
> Come straight with me now.
> What is your overall goal in proving that Greeks "loved" Africans.
I said they admired them. They may have even married some of them in
strategic alliances. They obviously included them into their
mythological tales, which is the highest kind of honor to a people from
another. They painted them in portraits, pottery and other art objects.
They must have found black people fascinating.
> Is it that Black people should be proud of themselves because at some
> points in history "white people really accepted blacks, yippee!"
> Now that something to be proud of, acceptance of "my oppressor."
What bullshit.
Why can't you imagine a time in which race wasn't considered THE factor
in cultures and peoples meeting? It happened during the time of the
ancients.
Even the late great J.A. Rogers has spoken of this time.
> I feel that you may feel this way because of a statement you made that
> got erased on this group, I wish I had the direct quote.
>
> Something like:
>
> "Which means blacks aren't excepted which is another slur...."
> Help me see clearly.
Sorry. I don't know Braille. Especially written by you.
> The statement about looking up stuff for sure....
> That depends on the author of the stuff and not necessarily the content
> of the stuff.
Yeah, right. Always excuses for ignorance.
>
> I wouldn't trust a dictionary, which probably has some connection to
> Daniel Webster, a slaveholder.
First, there are many different kinds of dictionaries compiled and
manufactured in this country. Not all of them are Websters. I told you
to look it up in a large library dictionary, not one that people would
normally buy in a bookstore.
Second, which Daniel Webster are you speaking of?
There was one who was a Senator from Massachusetts. Massachusetts, by
the way, outlawed slavery near the close of the 18th century. This
Webster died around 1850.
This Daniel Webster was against slavery, but for the Union. However,
his support of a compromise with the South on the issue of slavery lost
him many supporters. Supposedly he died of a broken heart because he
betrayed the anti-slavery cause.
> The same dictionary that defines Black as "dirty, unclean....."
Oh, for heaven's sake. If I've been cleaning a chimney all day, I would
be dirty and unclean as well, regardless of skin color.
> I'd put more trust in Mr. Muhammad than some dictionary.
You are an idiot if you put your faith in one thing or one man. Malcolm
learned that one. And you are one gigantic misspelling dolt, period.
> By the way, one last request.
Thank goodness.
> The Pythagoras Theorem, what is your opinion on that.
The Pythagorean Theorem? It's something I haven't heard of since high
school.
> Would you say that history has placed the fame for that mathematical
> deduction on the wrong group of people?
> Or do you think that the Greeks should recieve credit for that.
This is a trick question, right?
Does it really matter that most of those cats went to Egypt to get their
educations and later refined what they knew with what they had?
Honestly...like the Egyptians had to get a copyright!
Oh, and genius, to spell "receive" it is always "i before e except after
c."
> Also the gene refernce was to melanin, not to what many whites
> associate it to when they "describe the Indigenous peoples of the
> earth."
I really don't give a shit who has less or who has more, or who's
jealous of how much or how little skin color they have.
This melanin theory is and always will be bullshit. It is biological
determinism.
(Meanwhile the genius misspells 'reference.' And 'indigenous' is not a
proper adjective so that it is capitalized.)
Do me a big favor. Don't talk to me again. Apparently, to you,
ignorance is bliss.
kxm...@psu.edu
Why do you try to come up with excuses for white peoples' behavior?
I hope this is not what your implying.
Egyptians, then why were the weapons of the Greeks so more advanced
than the Egyptians.
The Greeks had more advanced weapons because that's all they did was
fight, in other words they had a lot of practice fighting among
themselves(Greeks).
Come straight with me now.
What is your overall goal in proving that Greeks "loved" Africans.
Is it that Black people should be proud of themselves because at some
points in history "white people really accepted blacks, yippee!"
Now that something to be proud of, acceptance of "my oppressor."
I feel that you may feel this way because of a statement you made that
got erased on this group, I wish I had the direct quote.
Something like:
"Which means blacks aren't excepted which is another slur...."
Help me see clearly.
The statement about looking up stuff for sure....
That depends on the author of the stuff and not necessarily the content
of the stuff.
I wouldn't trust a dictionary, which probably has some connection to
Daniel Webster, a slaveholder.
The same dictionary that defines Black as "dirty, unclean....."
I'd put more trust in Mr. Muhammad than some dictionary.
By the way, one last request.
The Pythagoras Theorem, what is your opinion on that.
Would you say that history has placed the fame for that mathematical
deduction on the wrong group of people?
Or do you think that the Greeks should recieve credit for that.
Also the gene refernce was to melanin, not to what many whites
DNice
Shakur spent 80% of his time in jail in solitary confinment.
===============================================================================
As with most young Black males who go to prison, Tupac had to confront
>and deal with his latent homosexual feelings for the first time while he
>was incarcerated. Being locked up with no access to women, Tupac found
>himself surrounded by men seeking to release sexual tensions with other
>available males. Tupac's pretty face and celebrity made him a more
>desirable sexual prize than Halle Berry in a strip joint. He must have
>been propositioned and sweetalked constantly by men who would have given
>up all their commissary money and cigarettes to slide some dick in Tupac's
>ass. Probably for the first time in his life, Tupac felt what it was like
>to be treated like a woman and it fucked him up mentally. I dont know if
>he got fucked while imprisoned and I wont even speculate, but when the
>rumors of him getting raped began to circulate his attitude hardened.
>After his release from prison Tupac projected himself as the Ultimate Thug
>Nigga. It was all a front. All you had to do is listen to the amount of
>thought, insight, sensitivity and depth of feeling Tupac expressed in his
>music to know this exquisitely gifted artist was no thug. Tupac was a
>Conflicted and Confused young man who failed to get in touch with his
>feminine side. In article <51tlms$k...@romeo.logica.co.uk>,
may...@logica.com (Christian Mayne) wrote:
--
Think! It aint illegal yet!
G. Clinton
Gabrielle T. Daniels
On Fri, 27 Sep 1996, DNice wrote:
> Shakur spent 80% of his time in jail in solitary confinment.
Proof. Where did you get this information?
They don't do that unless the convict is:
a) out of control, and needs to be controlled...
b) a menace to other convicts...
c) the whole cellblock or building is on lockdown...
d) supposed to have special treatment, and I doubt it in his case.
Let us know, please.
Gabrielle T. Daniels
On Thu, 26 Sep 1996, Bryan J. Zygmont wrote:
> Why don't all you freak's get off of Tupac's dick?
ROTFL!
> The man is dead, let
> him rest in peace...
He has my best wishes to overcome his karmic retribution in the next
life.
> half of the posts on this newsgroup have to do with
> Tupac's sexual orientation.
It's an interesting topic, but only speculation, as I said previously in
another post (way, way back). If anything it was only to rethink some
of the damaging aspects of gangsta rap and what black manhood truly is.
I'm pretty much convinced that if anything did happen in jail, it wasn't
with his consent.
It doesn't look like "half the posts" to me, but I'm agreed that this
thread is pretty much played out.
> When everyone again starts talking about
> music and hip hop, I'll consider reading what's written (as opposed to
> deleting everything that has to do with Tupac).
I'm sure everyone is going to talk music again, by and by. Over and out
on this end.
Harold
>Oh, and genius, to spell "receive" it is always "i before e except after
>c."
Except aye, as in "weigh".
Stephen
In article <Pine.SOL.3.93.960927...@rigel.oac.uci.edu>,
>
>They don't do that unless the convict is:
>
Or if the convict is likey to be attacked by others.
They probably felt that some inmates would be out to get him, one
way or another, because of his fame.
I wouldn't be suprised if Shakur agreed, for his own protection.
- Steve Pipkin
Lord Kano
In article <324DAC...@ix.netcom.com>, Harvester <tra...@ix.netcom.com>
wrote:
> DNice wrote:
> >
> > Shakur spent 80% of his time in jail in solitary confinment.
> >
============================================================================
===
>
> So basically, it's possible that Tupac wuz gettin' it up the ass, totally
> contrary to his badass gan image...Hmmm that makes Tupac a faggot..oops..
> I'm sorry....a DEAD faggot!!!! Oh well, shit happens!!!
>
> PS: Speakin' of shit happens.....Yo Sinister....you got the wrong
> guy....lay off..or I'm gonna come over to NZ and kick your ass.
> Don't you know what a retraction is???? You dipshit dumb fuck
> are pickin on some poor muthah fuchah in Michigan!!! HaHa....
> you best take the info off your bullshit Glock3 page before that
> guy gets your ass in real trouble!!!Or are you pushin up daisies
> like Tupac????
Cut the bullshit. You're not going to go anywhere or do anything. You'll
just keep sitting behind your computer acting like a hard ass and I stress
acting.
Grow the fuck up.
Lord Kano
John Trotman
Amen Those GLOCK 3 whiteboys are funny as hell. They never show
pictures of themselves because they know they're WHITE. Ashamed of
it.. damn fake ass niggas. I chill in Detriot ALL THE time and HAVE
NEVER HEARD OF GLOCK 3.. but hey if ya'all are HARDCORE come down to
Club legends this sat. GANGSTAS!!!
APage20301
This message was in response to Gabrielle's private e-mail to me, but my
server won't deliver it to her, so I'll post it. It is relevant to this
topic and regards Gabrielle's theory about why Tupac got married in
prison.
<< His short-lived marriage, I believe, was to counter those rumors. >>
Gabrielle, have you ever considered the simple explanmation that Tupac
married his girlfriend so he could have conjugal visits with her?
Unmarried
inmates don't get this priviledge. It seems to me that you focus on the
homosexuality theory even when much more obvious alternative scenarios are
present.
1) Before prison, there were no rumors about Tupac being gay. Hollywood is
a
town that loves talk. Now, if your theory was true, I would expect there
to
have been rumors swirling among Hollywood gossip columnists, prior to his
arrest and after his entry into the film world. (similar to the ones about
Keanu Reeves that haven't been proven and rumors about David Geffen that
later turned out to be true)
2) As for protective custody, many *famous* prisoners are put into
protective
custody. You think OJ was in general population? I doubt it. You're not
insinuating that OJ got raped.
3) Tupac wouldn't have been (nor was he, in my experience) suspected of
being homosexual by the masses of black people, even after his
incarceration. Since so many young brothers get locked up, no one in the
black community *assumes* a brother would display homosexual tendencies
just because they were imprisoned. Why would jail time incline someone to
display homosexual tendencies that they repressed in the free world? Upon
close inspection, Gabrielle, I feel this theory lacks logical coherence,
IMHO.
Since homosexuality is a charge where one is "believed guilty until proven
innocent" in today's anti-gay climate, it is a classification that shown
not be thrown around lightly, without the background of significant
evidence. Why? Becuase that would be like saying Tupac was an
integrationist when he was actually a separatist. There's nothing *wrong*
with being an integrationist, but defining someone's philosophy or
orientation and creating unfounded theories to aid in a
post-mortem twisting of a person's identity (much like how certain
conservative commentators misquote of incorrectly paraphrase Dr. King's
beliefs) is plain wrong. Same applies to homosexuality. If there is no
evidence in the public record of this and you have no personal sources
which confirm it, then this accusation is tantamount to libel. Oh, well,
that's my two cents.
PS, An editor publishing house in Berkeley is considering my query to
write a
biography on Tupac. Keep in touch with me for updates. The editor seems
enthusiastic about the idea after viewing my previous writings, but you
never know how things will go.
Keep in touch (I love a good debate!),
Alan
Jennifer Brannon
In article <5307va$5...@newsbf02.news.aol.com>, apage...@aol.com
(APage20301) wrote:
>
>
> 1) Before prison, there were no rumors about Tupac being gay. Hollywood is
> a
> town that loves talk. Now, if your theory was true, I would expect there
> to
> have been rumors swirling among Hollywood gossip columnists, prior to his
> arrest and after his entry into the film world. (similar to the ones about
> Keanu Reeves that haven't been proven and rumors about David Geffen that
> later turned out to be true)
>
Hollywood gossip columnists don't give a shit about Tupac's sexuality (let
alone most rap - especially the more hardcore rap). He may have been in a
few movies, but there was nothing "Hollywood" about Tupac. He was only
"Hollywood" in his own little world where he was still playing Bishop. Do
you really think that the masses cared as much about Tupac as they do
Keanu Reeves? Your statement is a little naive and I sincerely hope that
if you are going to write a biography about Tupac that you don't put him
on the pedestal that you seem too. Tupac was incredibly talented both as
an actor and as a rapper, but the biggest story about Tupac is the one
that no one is touching out of fear - the fact that when Tupac signed to
Death Row he pretty much signed his death certificate. Someone in this
newsgroup once described him as Suge Knight's "Step-n Fetch-it" (I'm sure
I spelled that wrong). I think that's pretty accurate. I forget where I
saw it, but there are some videos out there somewhere that show Suge
prompting Tupac to talk shit about Faith. The interviewer is commenting
on Tupac's clothes and Suge says "who gave you those clothes"? You can
see Tupac take a second to catch on and once he does he says that Faith
sent him the clothes after he slept with her. In that tape you can truly
see how Suge encouraged Tupac (at Tupac's expense). But like I said in
the beginning, Hollywood doesn't care about any of this and it's
ridiculous to think they do. Do you see any tv movies being made about
Tupac? No, Hollywood is more interested in Kerri Strug and Nancy Kerrigan
than Tupac Shakur's life OR death.
rahman...@gmail.com
> Tupac's carefully crafted SuperNigga image was a direct result of his
> failure to come to terms with the homosexual aspects of his nature. Tupac
> was an unusually handsome young man with almost feminine facial features
> (such as his very long eyelashes). As a youngster, Tupac was often teased
> about his pretty boy looks and his desperate desire not to be perceived as
> gay drove his obssessive attempts to be super masculine. That obsession
> eventually led to his death.
>
> Homophobia is the underlying force provoking extreme hostility between
> young Black males. The natural sexual attraction adolescent males feel for
> each other is masked by the posturing, bragging, and ritualistic
> demonstrations of superior virility. Each young man is constantly trying
> to show he can pull more "bitches", drive fancier cars and make more
> money. It is all a manifestation of represssed homosexuality.
> As with most young Black males who go to prison, Tupac had to confront
> and deal with his latent homosexual feelings for the first time while he
> was incarcerated. Being locked up with no access to women, Tupac found
> himself surrounded by men seeking to release sexual tensions with other
> available males. Tupac's pretty face and celebrity made him a more
> desirable sexual prize than Halle Berry in a strip joint. He must have
> been propositioned and sweetalked constantly by men who would have given
> up all their commissary money and cigarettes to slide some dick in Tupac's
> ass. Probably for the first time in his life, Tupac felt what it was like
> to be treated like a woman and it fucked him up mentally. I dont know if
> he got fucked while imprisoned and I wont even speculate, but when the
> rumors of him getting raped began to circulate his attitude hardened.
> After his release from prison Tupac projected himself as the Ultimate Thug
> Nigga. It was all a front. All you had to do is listen to the amount of
> thought, insight, sensitivity and depth of feeling Tupac expressed in his
> music to know this exquisitely gifted artist was no thug. Tupac was a
> Conflicted and Confused young man who failed to get in touch with his
> feminine side.
>
You should go fuck yourself.
Jack Ryan
99.999999% male audience, love in jail, ass pumpin' toons, muscular
posing to men only, etc.
mzkja...@gmail.com
Jeremy Bentham
Part II.
Actual names "before I wake up for the next man" & Ass part 1 and 2 -
the sloppy seconds. What about the erection (Resurrection).......
Ever wondered why he made a single with Elton John? He lves takin it G
style.
leroy...@gmail.com
nathan...@gmail.com
R.I.P. Pac