Fahrenheit 911
Tinas49ers
which did $67 mill its first weeek, BTW.
Tin@
Please be patient with me. God is not finished with me yet.
'Evil triumphs when the good people remain silent'
Save a life, give blood
1-800-GIVE LIFE
Clave
news:20040627212533...@mb-m28.aol.com...
>
> only did $21 million. Hardly what Passion of the Christ did its first
> weekend, which did $67 mill its first weeek, BTW.
Wrong, and who cares?
Passion did almost $84M its opening weekend, and seven other movies have done
*far* better than that. No other *documentary* has ever done this well
(although I suppose you're one of those who belive Passion was a documentary).
Something else you're leaving out is that Passion opened in over 3000 theaters,
F9/11 in only 868. So Moore's $25k/theater stacks up quite well to Passion's
$27.5k/theater.
Not exactly the comparison you were going for, methinks.
Jim
Randomity
movies regardless of whom they offend. In one we see mindless violence and
murder which take places while a corrupt goverment official washes his hands of
all blame. In the other we have...well we have the same thing.
Taking the time to explain the obvious since early 1998.
Randomity
Tinas49ers
>> only did $21 million. Hardly what Passion of the Christ did its first
>> weekend, which did $67 mill its first weeek, BTW.
>
>Wrong, and who cares?
Many people here, obviously by all the conversation about it.
>Passion did almost $84M its opening weekend
Even better.
>and seven other movies have done
>*far* better than that.
Movies that have lots of controversy and that are on limited screens?
>No other *documentary* has ever done this well
>(although I suppose you're one of those who belive Passion was a
>documentary).
Nope, I believe like F911, it just had the basic facts, not the actual facts.
>Something else you're leaving out is that Passion opened in over 3000
>theaters,
>F9/11 in only 868. So Moore's $25k/theater stacks up quite well to Passion's
>$27.5k/theater.
Proving Passion still did better..
>Not exactly the comparison you were going for, methinks.
I'm not disappointed. I just said better, I didnt say it kicked ass.
COL. BILL KILGORE
"Randomity" <rand...@aol.comdropdead> wrote in message
news:20040627220409...@mb-m01.aol.com...
> >
> >"Tinas49ers" <tinas...@aol.com> wrote in message
> >news:20040627212533...@mb-m28.aol.com...
> >>
> >> only did $21 million. Hardly what Passion of the Christ did its first
> >> weekend, which did $67 mill its first weeek, BTW.
> >
> >Wrong, and who cares?
> >
> >Passion did almost $84M its opening weekend, and seven other movies have
done
> >*far* better than that. No other *documentary* has ever done this well
> >(although I suppose you're one of those who belive Passion was a
> >documentary).
> >
> >Something else you're leaving out is that Passion opened in over 3000
> >theaters,
> >F9/11 in only 868. So Moore's $25k/theater stacks up quite well to
Passion's
> >$27.5k/theater.
> >
> >Not exactly the comparison you were going for, methinks.
> >
> >Jim
> >
> >
> I might add that in my opinion both Gibson and Moore have a right to make
their
> movies regardless of whom they offend. In one we see mindless violence and
> murder which take places while a corrupt goverment official washes his
hands of
> all blame.
...and those Romans were really nasty when it came to tax collections too,
weren't they Steve.
gk
weekend,
> which did $67 mill its first weeek, BTW.
Fiction generally does do better than documentaries.
Bill Bonde ( ``There's sunshine in my stomach'' )
Clave wrote:
>
> "Tinas49ers" <tinas...@aol.com> wrote in message
> news:20040627212533...@mb-m28.aol.com...
> >
> > only did $21 million. Hardly what Passion of the Christ did its first
> > weekend, which did $67 mill its first weeek, BTW.
>
> Wrong, and who cares?
>
> Passion did almost $84M its opening weekend, and seven other movies have done
> *far* better than that. No other *documentary* has ever done this well
> (although I suppose you're one of those who belive Passion was a documentary).
>
Passion was more of a documentary than this latest Moore monstrosity.
--
"He named his second child Jim after the horse that had brought him to
Washington. He caught his son one day writing 'James' on his lessons,
and he told the boy without raising his voice that if he had wanted to
name him 'James', that is what he would have done." -+Edward P. Jones,
"The Known World"
Tinas49ers
What does that have to do with this discussion?
Clave
> >From: "gk"
> >"Tinas49ers" <tinas...@aol.com> wrote in message
> >news:20040627212533...@mb-m28.aol.com...
> >>
> >> only did $21 million. Hardly what Passion of the Christ did its
> >> first weekend, which did $67 mill its first weeek, BTW.
> >
> >Fiction generally does do better than documentaries.
>
> What does that have to do with this discussion?
Since you really didn't have much of a point in the first place, I'd say it's a
perfectly cromulent thing to say.
Jim
gk
> >From: "gk"
>
> >
> >"Tinas49ers" <tinas...@aol.com> wrote in message
> >news:20040627212533...@mb-m28.aol.com...
> >> only did $21 million. Hardly what Passion of the Christ did its first
> >weekend,
> >> which did $67 mill its first weeek, BTW.
> >
> >Fiction generally does do better than documentaries.
> >
>
> What does that have to do with this discussion?
I'm don't think Fahrenheit 9/11 should be expected to do as well as Passion
of the Christ. I expect Spider-Man 2 will beat it next week too, and the
right wing will somehow try to claim that it means Moore is being ignored.
Tinas49ers
Not at all. No one was talking about fiction, til he brought it up.
Bill Bonde ( ``There's sunshine in my stomach'' )
Because documentaries are limited to telling the truth in an honest
manner examining all points of view, at least they were. With Moore, we
have the 'documentary' that is just his own bizarre fiction. Moore has
even claimed that the Soviet Union didn't start the arms race in the
Cold War.
Tinas49ers
>
>I'm don't think Fahrenheit 9/11 should be expected to do as well as Passion
>of the Christ.
Why not? I believe someone here was claiming it would do as well, if not
better. Don't recall who though.
>I expect Spider-Man 2 will beat it next week too
No doubt, it appeals to a wider mass of people.
>and the
>right wing will somehow try to claim that it means Moore is being ignored.
"The Right Wing" isn't the only people opposed to the film and supposedly
people here consider me "right wing" and I'm excited to see the film. The only
reason I didnt see it this weekend is time and money are a bit tight, so I will
see it next weekend. So it looks like your assessment isn't as accurate as you
wish it were, huh?
Bill Bonde ( ``There's sunshine in my stomach'' )
Tinas49ers wrote:
>
> >From: "gk"
>
> >
> >"Tinas49ers" <tinas...@aol.com> wrote in message
> >news:20040627212533...@mb-m28.aol.com...
> >> only did $21 million. Hardly what Passion of the Christ did its first
> >weekend,
> >> which did $67 mill its first weeek, BTW.
> >
> >Fiction generally does do better than documentaries.
> >
>
> What does that have to do with this discussion?
>
I think that gk was trying to provide excuses for why Moore's
"documentary" isn't being competitive with other fare.
Clave
> >From: "Clave"
>
> >
> >"Tinas49ers" <tinas...@aol.com> wrote in message
> >news:20040627222745...@mb-m28.aol.com...
> >> >From: "gk"
> >> >"Tinas49ers" <tinas...@aol.com> wrote in message
> >> >news:20040627212533...@mb-m28.aol.com...
> >> >>
> >> >> only did $21 million. Hardly what Passion of the Christ did its
> >> >> first weekend, which did $67 mill its first weeek, BTW.
> >> >
> >> >Fiction generally does do better than documentaries.
> >>
> >> What does that have to do with this discussion?
> >
> >Since you really didn't have much of a point in the first place, I'd say
> >it's a perfectly cromulent thing to say.
>
*You* did in your very first post.
Jim
Clave
wrote in message news:40DF89ED...@backpacker.com...
>
>
> gk wrote:
> >
> > "Tinas49ers" <tinas...@aol.com> wrote in message
> > news:20040627212533...@mb-m28.aol.com...
> > > only did $21 million. Hardly what Passion of the Christ did its first
> > weekend,
> > > which did $67 mill its first weeek, BTW.
> >
> > Fiction generally does do better than documentaries.
> >
> Because documentaries are limited to telling the truth in an honest
Nope. Never have been.
Jim
Tinas49ers
>
>"Tinas49ers" <tinas...@aol.com> wrote in message
>news:20040627230010...@mb-m28.aol.com...
>> >From: "Clave"
>>
>> >
>> >"Tinas49ers" <tinas...@aol.com> wrote in message
>> >news:20040627222745...@mb-m28.aol.com...
>> >> >From: "gk"
>> >> >"Tinas49ers" <tinas...@aol.com> wrote in message
>> >> >news:20040627212533...@mb-m28.aol.com...
>> >> >>
>> >> >> only did $21 million. Hardly what Passion of the Christ did its
>> >> >> first weekend, which did $67 mill its first weeek, BTW.
>> >> >
>> >> >Fiction generally does do better than documentaries.
>> >>
>> >> What does that have to do with this discussion?
>> >
>> >Since you really didn't have much of a point in the first place, I'd say
>> >it's a perfectly cromulent thing to say.
>>
>> Not at all. No one was talking about fiction, til he brought it up.
>
>*You* did in your very first post.
>
>Jim
>
Its fictious that F911 only made $21 mil? Well, that's what the local news
reported.
Scott C. Smith
"Bill Bonde ( ``There's sunshine in my stomach'' )" <std...@backpacker.com>
wrote in message news:40DF89ED...@backpacker.com...
>
>
> >
> > "Tinas49ers" <tinas...@aol.com> wrote in message
> > news:20040627212533...@mb-m28.aol.com...
> > > only did $21 million. Hardly what Passion of the Christ did its first
> > weekend,
> > > which did $67 mill its first weeek, BTW.
> >
> > Fiction generally does do better than documentaries.
> >
> Because documentaries are limited to telling the truth in an honest
> manner examining all points of view, at least they were. With Moore, we
> have the 'documentary' that is just his own bizarre fiction. Moore has
> even claimed that the Soviet Union didn't start the arms race in the
> Cold War.
Did you see "Fahrenheit 9/11"?
Clave
> >From: "Clave"
>
> >
> >"Tinas49ers" <tinas...@aol.com> wrote in message
> >news:20040627230010...@mb-m28.aol.com...
> >> >From: "Clave"
> >>
> >> >
> >> >"Tinas49ers" <tinas...@aol.com> wrote in message
> >> >news:20040627222745...@mb-m28.aol.com...
> >> >> >From: "gk"
> >> >> >"Tinas49ers" <tinas...@aol.com> wrote in message
> >> >> >news:20040627212533...@mb-m28.aol.com...
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> only did $21 million. Hardly what Passion of the Christ did its
> >> >> >> first weekend, which did $67 mill its first weeek, BTW.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >Fiction generally does do better than documentaries.
> >> >>
> >> >> What does that have to do with this discussion?
> >> >
> >> >Since you really didn't have much of a point in the first place, I'd say
> >> >it's a perfectly cromulent thing to say.
> >>
> >> Not at all. No one was talking about fiction, til he brought it up.
> >
> >*You* did in your very first post.
>
> reported.
A dodge I would have thought too cheap even for *you*.
Jim
Bill Bonde ( ``There's sunshine in my stomach'' )
No.
gk
wrote in message news:40DF89ED...@backpacker.com...
>
>
> >
> > "Tinas49ers" <tinas...@aol.com> wrote in message
> > news:20040627212533...@mb-m28.aol.com...
> > > only did $21 million. Hardly what Passion of the Christ did its first
> > weekend,
> > > which did $67 mill its first weeek, BTW.
> >
> > Fiction generally does do better than documentaries.
> >
> Because documentaries are limited to telling the truth in an honest
> manner examining all points of view, at least they were.
cite please.
> With Moore, we have the 'documentary' that is just his own bizarre
fiction.
It's mostly video of Bush, Ashcroft et all, so I will agree with the bizarre
part.
> Moore has
> even claimed that the Soviet Union didn't start the arms race in the
> Cold War.
How'd they start it? The US detonated the first atomic and hydrogen bombs.
Clave
>
>
> "Scott C. Smith" wrote:
> >
> > "Bill Bonde ( ``There's sunshine in my stomach'' )" <std...@backpacker.com>
> > wrote in message news:40DF89ED...@backpacker.com...
> > >
> > >
> > > gk wrote:
> > > >
> > > > "Tinas49ers" <tinas...@aol.com> wrote in message
> > > > news:20040627212533...@mb-m28.aol.com...
> > > > > only did $21 million. Hardly what Passion of the Christ did its first
> > > > weekend,
> > > > > which did $67 mill its first weeek, BTW.
> > > >
> > > > Fiction generally does do better than documentaries.
> > > >
> > > Because documentaries are limited to telling the truth in an honest
> > > manner examining all points of view, at least they were. With Moore, we
> > > have the 'documentary' that is just his own bizarre fiction. Moore has
> > > even claimed that the Soviet Union didn't start the arms race in the
> > > Cold War.
> >
> > Did you see "Fahrenheit 9/11"?
>
> No.
Then go fuck yourself.
Hey, that *does* feel better!
Jim
gk
> >From: "gk"
>
> >
> >I'm don't think Fahrenheit 9/11 should be expected to do as well as
Passion
> >of the Christ.
>
> Why not? I believe someone here was claiming it would do as well, if not
> better. Don't recall who though.
No, Georgann was stating that it wouldn't do as well. There may have been
some responses to that but I don't think anyone made the claim that it would
do as well or better.
> >I expect Spider-Man 2 will beat it next week too
>
> No doubt, it appeals to a wider mass of people.
As does Passion of the Christ.
> >and the
> >right wing will somehow try to claim that it means Moore is being
ignored.
>
> "The Right Wing" isn't the only people opposed to the film and supposedly
> people here consider me "right wing" and I'm excited to see the film. The
only
> reason I didnt see it this weekend is time and money are a bit tight, so I
will
> see it next weekend. So it looks like your assessment isn't as accurate as
you
> wish it were, huh?
I made a generalization that is for the most part accurate. I'm actually
impressed that Fahrenheit 9/11 is doing as well as it is, I thought it would
do worse. Personally I will probably wait for the DVD, I try to avoid going
to theaters these days.
Clave
news:Y4MDc.13012$6r1.7171@fed1read06...
> "Bill Bonde ( ``There's sunshine in my stomach'' )" <std...@backpacker.com>
> wrote in message news:40DF89ED...@backpacker.com...
> >
> >
> > gk wrote:
> > >
> > > "Tinas49ers" <tinas...@aol.com> wrote in message
> > > news:20040627212533...@mb-m28.aol.com...
> > > > only did $21 million. Hardly what Passion of the Christ did its first
> > > weekend,
> > > > which did $67 mill its first weeek, BTW.
> > >
> > > Fiction generally does do better than documentaries.
> > >
> > Because documentaries are limited to telling the truth in an honest
> > manner examining all points of view, at least they were.
>
> cite please.
How about a cite from a professional pheelm expert saying Bonzo's as fulla shit
as ever?
June 18, 2004
BY ROGER EBERT FILM CRITIC
A reader writes:
"In your articles discussing Michael Moore's film 'Fahrenheit 9/11,'
you call it a documentary. I always thought of documentaries as
presenting facts objectively without editorializing. While I have
enjoyed many of Mr. Moore's films, I don't think they fit the
definition of a documentary."
That's where you're wrong. Most documentaries, especially the best ones, have an
opinion and argue for it. Even those that pretend to be objective reflect the
filmmaker's point of view. Moviegoers should observe the bias, take it into
account and decide if the film supports it or not.
Michael Moore is a liberal activist. He is the first to say so. He is alarmed by
the prospect of a second term for George W. Bush, and made "Fahrenheit 9/11" for
the purpose of persuading people to vote against him.
That is all perfectly clear, and yet in the days before the film opens June 25,
there'll be bountiful reports by commentators who are shocked! shocked! that
Moore's film is partisan. "He doesn't tell both sides," we'll hear, especially
on Fox News, which is so famous for telling both sides.
The wise French director Godard once said, "The way to criticize a film is to
make another film." That there is not a pro-Bush documentary available right now
I am powerless to explain. Surely, however, the Republican National Convention
will open with such a documentary, which will position Bush comfortably between
Ronald Reagan and God. The Democratic convention will have a wondrous film about
John Kerry. Anyone who thinks one of these documentaries is "presenting facts
objectively without editorializing" should look at the other one.
The pitfall for Moore is not subjectivity, but accuracy. We expect him to hold
an opinion and argue it, but we also require his facts to be correct. I was an
admirer of his previous doc, the Oscar-winning "Bowling for Columbine," until I
discovered that some of his "facts" were wrong, false or fudged.
In some cases, he was guilty of making a good story better, but in other cases
(such as his ambush of Charlton Heston) he was unfair, and in still others (such
as the wording on the plaque under the bomber at the Air Force Academy) he was
just plain wrong, as anyone can see by going to look at the plaque.
Because I agree with Moore's politics, his inaccuracies pained me, and I wrote
about them in my Answer Man column. Moore wrote me that he didn't expect such
attacks "from you, of all people." But I cannot ignore flaws simply because I
agree with the filmmaker. In hurting his cause, he wounds mine.
Now comes "Fahrenheit 9/11," floating on an enormous wave of advance publicity.
It inspired a battle of the titans between Disney's Michael Eisner and Miramax's
Harvey Weinstein. It won the Palme d'Or at the Cannes Film Festival. It has been
rated R by the MPAA, and former New York Gov. Mario Cuomo has signed up as
Moore's lawyer, to challenge the rating. The conservative group Move America
Forward, which successfully bounced the mildly critical biopic "The Reagans" off
CBS and onto cable, has launched a campaign to discourage theaters from showing
"Fahrenheit 9/11."
The campaign will amount to nothing and disgraces Move America Forward by
showing it trying to suppress disagreement instead of engaging it. The R rating
may stand; there is a real beheading in the film, and only fictional beheadings
get the PG-13. Disney and Miramax will survive.
Moore's real test will come on the issue of accuracy. He can say whatever he
likes about Bush, as long as his facts are straight. Having seen the film twice,
I saw nothing that raised a flag for me, and I haven't heard of any major
inaccuracies. When Moore was questioned about his claim that Bush unwisely
lingered for six or seven minutes in that Florida classroom after learning of
the World Trade Center attacks, Moore was able to reply with a video of Bush
doing exactly that.
I agree with Moore that the presidency of George W. Bush has been a disaster for
America. In writing that, I expect to get the usual complaints that movie
critics should keep their political opinions to themselves. But opinions are my
stock in trade, and is it not more honest to declare my politics than to conceal
them? I agree with Moore, and because I do, I hope "Fahrenheit 9/11" proves to
be as accurate as it seems.
gk
>
>
> Tinas49ers wrote:
> >
> > >From: "gk"
> >
> > >
> > >"Tinas49ers" <tinas...@aol.com> wrote in message
> > >news:20040627212533...@mb-m28.aol.com...
> > >> only did $21 million. Hardly what Passion of the Christ did its first
> > >weekend,
> > >> which did $67 mill its first weeek, BTW.
> > >
> > >Fiction generally does do better than documentaries.
> > >
> >
> > What does that have to do with this discussion?
> >
> I think that gk was trying to provide excuses for why Moore's
> "documentary" isn't being competitive with other fare.
Not at all. Fahrenheit 9/11 is doing better than I expected. It's already
matched Bowling for Columbine's total box office take.
Bill Bonde ( ``There's sunshine in my stomach'' )
If documentaries aren't at least trying to tell the truth, then what
makes them non-fiction? Take some Kurt Vonnegut book, for example.
Elements will probably be true, others based on fact, and still others
fantastic. His material is called 'fiction'.
Even if you take something in the format of a 'documentary', say "This
Is Spinal Tap", and consider it, you will have to conclude that it is
fiction as well. Of course those involved in those projects didn't try
to claim otherwise. Moore film efforts are sort of like the movie made
from Vonnegut's "Slaughterhouse Five", but he claims everything in it is
true, it all happened exactly like he's showing us. I think people
should object to that sort of thing.
Clave
<...>
> I made a generalization that is for the most part accurate. I'm actually
> impressed that Fahrenheit 9/11 is doing as well as it is, I thought it
> would do worse. Personally I will probably wait for the DVD, I try to
> avoid going to theaters these days.
Concur. It takes a *lot* to get me into a theater these days. Tiny screens,
crosstalk from adjacent theaters, crowds...
The buzz about "The Matrix" was such that I thought it deserved seeing on the
big screen -- I was right, but I also waited a few weeks for the crowds to die
down and went to an early-afternoon showing that had maybe 20 other people in
the theater. Perfect. That was the last time, and before that it had been a
good five years.
Jim
Clave
>
> Clave wrote:
> >
> > "Bill Bonde ( ``There's sunshine in my stomach'' )" <std...@backpacker.com>
> > wrote in message news:40DF89ED...@backpacker.com...
> > >
> > >
> > > gk wrote:
> > > >
> > > > "Tinas49ers" <tinas...@aol.com> wrote in message
> > > > news:20040627212533...@mb-m28.aol.com...
> > > > > only did $21 million. Hardly what Passion of the Christ did its first
> > > > weekend,
> > > > > which did $67 mill its first weeek, BTW.
> > > >
> > > > Fiction generally does do better than documentaries.
> > > >
> > > Because documentaries are limited to telling the truth in an honest
> > > manner examining all points of view...
> >
> > Nope. Never have been.
> >
False premise.
Jim
Tinas49ers
See, Cheney knows best.
Tinas49ers
I didnt dodge anything. That is the only thing in my original post that could
be fictious.
Tinas49ers
>> Why not? I believe someone here was claiming it would do as well, if not
>> better. Don't recall who though.
>
>No, Georgann was stating that it wouldn't do as well.
Then Georgann was correct, wasn't she?
>
>> >I expect Spider-Man 2 will beat it next week too
>>
>> No doubt, it appeals to a wider mass of people.
>
>As does Passion of the Christ.
Really? Many were opposed to see it it for a variety of reasons, even some
Christians, who couldnt handle the violence.
>Personally I will probably wait for the DVD, I try to avoid going
>to theaters these days.
I miss going to the theatre as much as I used to. I just dont have the time I
used to, plus most movies these days aren't worth the ticket price.
Tinas49ers
> It's already
>matched Bowling for Columbine's total box office take.
That one was nearly impossible to find in the theatres, at least when I went
looking.
Bill Bonde ( ``There's sunshine in my stomach'' )
Clave wrote:
>
> "Bill Bonde ( ``There's sunshine in my stomach'' )" <std...@backpacker.com>
> wrote in message news:40DF8D5B...@backpacker.com...
> >
> >
> > "Scott C. Smith" wrote:
> > >
> > > "Bill Bonde ( ``There's sunshine in my stomach'' )" <std...@backpacker.com>
> > > wrote in message news:40DF89ED...@backpacker.com...
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > gk wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > "Tinas49ers" <tinas...@aol.com> wrote in message
> > > > > news:20040627212533...@mb-m28.aol.com...
> > > > > > only did $21 million. Hardly what Passion of the Christ did its first
> > > > > weekend,
> > > > > > which did $67 mill its first weeek, BTW.
> > > > >
> > > > > Fiction generally does do better than documentaries.
> > > > >
> > > > Because documentaries are limited to telling the truth in an honest
> > > > manner examining all points of view, at least they were. With Moore, we
> > > > have the 'documentary' that is just his own bizarre fiction. Moore has
> > > > even claimed that the Soviet Union didn't start the arms race in the
> > > > Cold War.
> > >
> > > Did you see "Fahrenheit 9/11"?
> >
> > No.
>
> Then go fuck yourself.
>
> Hey, that *does* feel better!
>
Yet it's not the sort of friendly tete-a-tete I so keenly expect with
you, Clave.
Clave
> >From: "Clave"
>
> >
> >"Bill Bonde ( ``There's sunshine in my stomach'' )" <std...@backpacker.com>
> >wrote in message news:40DF8D5B...@backpacker.com...
> >>
> >>
> >> "Scott C. Smith" wrote:
> >> >
> >> > "Bill Bonde ( ``There's sunshine in my stomach'' )"
> ><std...@backpacker.com>
> >> > wrote in message news:40DF89ED...@backpacker.com...
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > > gk wrote:
> >> > > >
> >> > > > "Tinas49ers" <tinas...@aol.com> wrote in message
> >> > > > news:20040627212533...@mb-m28.aol.com...
> >> > > > > only did $21 million. Hardly what Passion of the Christ did its
> >first
> >> > > > weekend,
> >> > > > > which did $67 mill its first weeek, BTW.
> >> > > >
> >> > > > Fiction generally does do better than documentaries.
> >> > > >
> >> > > Because documentaries are limited to telling the truth in an honest
> >> > > manner examining all points of view, at least they were. With Moore, we
> >> > > have the 'documentary' that is just his own bizarre fiction. Moore has
> >> > > even claimed that the Soviet Union didn't start the arms race in the
> >> > > Cold War.
> >> >
> >> > Did you see "Fahrenheit 9/11"?
> >>
> >> No.
> >
> >Then go fuck yourself.
> >
> >Hey, that *does* feel better!
>
Frickin' whoosh.
Jim
Bill Bonde ( ``There's sunshine in my stomach'' )
Then what was your point?
Bill Bonde ( ``There's sunshine in my stomach'' )
Tinas49ers wrote:
>
> >From: "gk"
>
> > It's already
> >matched Bowling for Columbine's total box office take.
>
> That one was nearly impossible to find in the theatres, at least when I went
> looking.
>
Who wants to go to a theatre to watch a documentary? This harks back to
the pre-TV era and the newsreels.
Clave
> >From: "Clave"
>
> >
> >"Tinas49ers" <tinas...@aol.com> wrote in message
> >news:20040627230824...@mb-m28.aol.com...
> >> >From: "Clave"
> >>
> >> >
> >> >"Tinas49ers" <tinas...@aol.com> wrote in message
> >> >news:20040627230010...@mb-m28.aol.com...
<...>
> >> >> Not at all. No one was talking about fiction, til he brought it up.
> >> >
> >> >*You* did in your very first post.
> >>
> >> Its fictious that F911 only made $21 mil? Well, that's what the local
> >> news reported.
> >
> >A dodge I would have thought too cheap even for *you*.
>
> I didnt dodge anything. That is the only thing in my original post that
> could be fictious.
Another (actually the very same) cheap dodge.
You referred to Gibson's fictious [sic] "Passion". That's FICTION. Maybe you
aren't smart enough to know that.
Jim
Tinas49ers
>
>Tinas49ers wrote:
>>
>> >From: "gk"
>>
>> > It's already
>> >matched Bowling for Columbine's total box office take.
>>
>> That one was nearly impossible to find in the theatres, at least when I
>went
>> looking.
>>
>Who wants to go to a theatre to watch a documentary? This harks back to
>the pre-TV era and the newsreels.
>
>
>
Obviously a lot of people. If it isn't YOUR cup of tea, don't go.
Bill Bonde ( ``There's sunshine in my stomach'' )
Clave wrote:
>
> "Bill Bonde ( ``There's sunshine in my stomach'' )" <std...@backpacker.com>
> wrote in message news:40DF90B7...@backpacker.com...
> >
> > Clave wrote:
> > >
> > > "Bill Bonde ( ``There's sunshine in my stomach'' )" <std...@backpacker.com>
> > > wrote in message news:40DF89ED...@backpacker.com...
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > gk wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > "Tinas49ers" <tinas...@aol.com> wrote in message
> > > > > news:20040627212533...@mb-m28.aol.com...
> > > > > > only did $21 million. Hardly what Passion of the Christ did its first
> > > > > weekend,
> > > > > > which did $67 mill its first weeek, BTW.
> > > > >
> > > > > Fiction generally does do better than documentaries.
> > > > >
> > > > Because documentaries are limited to telling the truth in an honest
> > > > manner examining all points of view...
> > >
> > > Nope. Never have been.
> > >
> > If documentaries aren't at least trying to tell the truth...
>
> False premise.
>
Documentaries are supposed to be honest. How can you call them anything
but fiction if they lie?
Clave
>
>
> Tinas49ers wrote:
> >
> > >From: "gk"
> >
> > > It's already
> > >matched Bowling for Columbine's total box office take.
> >
> > That one was nearly impossible to find in the theatres, at least when
> > I went looking.
> >
> Who wants to go to a theatre to watch a documentary?
A whole bunch of people, apparently.
Duh.
Jim
Tinas49ers
I know what happened in the movie happened, maybe not word for word or scene by
scene, but Jesus was crucified and rose from the dead. Maybe you dont have
enough faith to believe that. Pity.
Clave
>
>
> Clave wrote:
> >
> > "Bill Bonde ( ``There's sunshine in my stomach'' )" <std...@backpacker.com>
> > wrote in message news:40DF90B7...@backpacker.com...
> > >
> > > Clave wrote:
> > > >
> > > > "Bill Bonde ( ``There's sunshine in my stomach'' )"
<std...@backpacker.com>
> > > > wrote in message news:40DF89ED...@backpacker.com...
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > gk wrote:
<...>
> > > > > > Fiction generally does do better than documentaries.
> > > > > >
> > > > > Because documentaries are limited to telling the truth in an
> > > > > honest manner examining all points of view...
> > > >
> > > > Nope. Never have been.
> > > >
> > > If documentaries aren't at least trying to tell the truth...
> >
> > False premise.
> >
> Documentaries are supposed to be honest. How can you call them anything
> but fiction if they lie?
I've asked you to document the lies. You can't.
And who says documentaries are required to examine "all points of view?" Can
you name one that does?
Jim
Clave
See, I knew that was what you were avoiding (like a typical shirtsleeve
Christian), because unlike the verifiable FACTS Moore documents in his film, you
have to accept the Passion on blind faith. That makes it FICTION.
Jim
Gary DeWaay
> > > If documentaries aren't at least trying to tell the truth...
> >
> > False premise.
> >
> Documentaries are supposed to be honest. How can you call them anything
> but fiction if they lie?
>
The lies that you can't list?
Gary
--
FDR: "Nothing to fear but fear itself"
Shrub: "Nothing will get me reelected except fear itself"
(Ok, I made that one up)
Tinas49ers
To you. I know it happened.
Clave
> >From: "Clave"
>
> >"Tinas49ers" <tinas...@aol.com> wrote in message
> >news:20040628000322...@mb-m15.aol.com...
> >> >From: "Clave"
<...>
> >> >You referred to Gibson's fictious [sic] "Passion". That's FICTION.
> >> >Maybe you aren't smart enough to know that.
> >>
> >> I know what happened in the movie happened, maybe not word for word or
> >> scene by scene, but Jesus was crucified and rose from the dead. Maybe
> >> you dont have enough faith to believe that. Pity.
> >
> >See, I knew that was what you were avoiding (like a typical shirtsleeve
> >Christian), because unlike the verifiable FACTS Moore documents in his
> >film, you have to accept the Passion on blind faith. That makes it FICTION.
>
> To you. I know it happened.
No, you *believe* it happened. Not that I expect you to appreciate the
distinction -- that's why you were compelled to draw the comparison in the first
place.
Jim
Bill Bonde ( ``There's sunshine in my stomach'' )
Gary DeWaay wrote:
>
> Bill Bonde ( ``There's sunshine in my stomach'' )'s wisdom:
>
>
> > > > If documentaries aren't at least trying to tell the truth...
> > >
> > > False premise.
> > >
> > Documentaries are supposed to be honest. How can you call them anything
> > but fiction if they lie?
> >
>
> The lies that you can't list?
>
I've repeatedly listed examples of Moore lying.
#begin quote
Moore claims that Bush is connected to "bin Laden's family". He implies
this is Osama bin Laden's patriarchal family but it isn't, rather it is
the most powerful non-royal family in Saudi Arabia, the patriarchal
Mohammed bin Laden family. Osama is the only son of a divorced wife of
twelve wives of a long dead Mohammed bin Laden, hardly the connection
implied even if you ignore all the efforts to distance themselves from
Osama.
#end quote
Bill Bonde ( ``There's sunshine in my stomach'' )
Clave wrote:
>
> "Bill Bonde ( ``There's sunshine in my stomach'' )" <std...@backpacker.com>
> wrote in message news:40DF9789...@backpacker.com...
> >
> >
> > Clave wrote:
> > >
> > > "Bill Bonde ( ``There's sunshine in my stomach'' )" <std...@backpacker.com>
> > > wrote in message news:40DF90B7...@backpacker.com...
> > > >
> > > > Clave wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > "Bill Bonde ( ``There's sunshine in my stomach'' )"
> <std...@backpacker.com>
> > > > > wrote in message news:40DF89ED...@backpacker.com...
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > gk wrote:
>
> <...>
>
> > > > > > > Fiction generally does do better than documentaries.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > Because documentaries are limited to telling the truth in an
> > > > > > honest manner examining all points of view...
> > > > >
> > > > > Nope. Never have been.
> > > > >
> > > > If documentaries aren't at least trying to tell the truth...
> > >
> > > False premise.
> > >
> > Documentaries are supposed to be honest. How can you call them anything
> > but fiction if they lie?
>
> I've asked you to document the lies. You can't.
>
How many times do you want me to document them before you don't deny
that I've at least given it a shot?
> And who says documentaries are required to examine "all points of view?" Can
> you name one that does?
>
They are supposed to tell the truth. They aren't supposed to be fiction.
Bill Bonde ( ``There's sunshine in my stomach'' )
But why? I mean, don't you think they are a bunch a porc chops to do
that?
Clave
>
>
> Gary DeWaay wrote:
> >
> > Bill Bonde ( ``There's sunshine in my stomach'' )'s wisdom:
> >
> >
> > > > > If documentaries aren't at least trying to tell the truth...
> > > >
> > > > False premise.
> > > >
> > > Documentaries are supposed to be honest. How can you call them anything
> > > but fiction if they lie?
> > >
> >
> > The lies that you can't list?
> >
> I've repeatedly listed examples of Moore lying.
The lies in F9/11, Bonzo. The ones you can't list.
> #begin quote
> Moore claims that Bush is connected to "bin Laden's family".
He is. That's not news to you, or anyone else who's been reading this newsgroup
for more than two years.
> He implies...
Are implications lies? If so, then Bush and Cheney have a lot of answering to
do for Iraq, as do you for saying over and over that they never lied.
<...snip more Bonzo exhaust...>
Jim
Clave
>
>
> Clave wrote:
> >
> > "Bill Bonde ( ``There's sunshine in my stomach'' )" <std...@backpacker.com>
> > wrote in message news:40DF9789...@backpacker.com...
> > >
> > >
> > > Clave wrote:
> > > >
> > > > "Bill Bonde ( ``There's sunshine in my stomach'' )"
<std...@backpacker.com>
> > > > wrote in message news:40DF90B7...@backpacker.com...
> > > > >
> > > > > Clave wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > "Bill Bonde ( ``There's sunshine in my stomach'' )"
> > <std...@backpacker.com>
> > > > > > wrote in message news:40DF89ED...@backpacker.com...
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > gk wrote:
> >
> > <...>
> >
> > > > > > > > Fiction generally does do better than documentaries.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Because documentaries are limited to telling the truth in an
> > > > > > > honest manner examining all points of view...
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Nope. Never have been.
> > > > > >
> > > > > If documentaries aren't at least trying to tell the truth...
> > > >
> > > > False premise.
> > > >
> > > Documentaries are supposed to be honest. How can you call them anything
> > > but fiction if they lie?
> >
> > I've asked you to document the lies. You can't.
> >
> How many times do you want me to document them before you don't deny
> that I've at least given it a shot?
Once would be nice.
> > And who says documentaries are required to examine "all points of view?"
Can
> > you name one that does?
> >
> They are supposed to tell the truth. They aren't supposed to be fiction.
Agreed. Prove F9/11 is fiction.
You have NOTHING.
Jim
Gary DeWaay
> > The lies that you can't list?
> >
> I've repeatedly listed examples of Moore lying.
>
> #begin quote
> Moore claims that Bush is connected to "bin Laden's family". He implies
> this is Osama bin Laden's patriarchal family but it isn't, rather it is
> the most powerful non-royal family in Saudi Arabia, the patriarchal
> Mohammed bin Laden family. Osama is the only son of a divorced wife of
> twelve wives of a long dead Mohammed bin Laden, hardly the connection
> implied even if you ignore all the efforts to distance themselves from
> Osama.
> #end quote
>
Lol! Ok Bill. I guess that convinces me! Micheal Moore is one lying
cocksucking son of a bitch!
little_people
> Clave says...
> > Bill Bonde wrote...
> > > Clave wrote:
> > > I've asked you to document the lies. You can't.
> > How many times do you want me to document them before you don't deny
> > that I've at least given it a shot?
> Once would be nice.
http://lawroark.blog-city.com/read/663671.htm
[...
I haven't seen Fahrenheit 9/11, but I know that Mr. Moore alleges that Bush
spent 42% of his first eight months in office (before 9/11) on vacation, and
that he proudly declares that this figure came from the Washington Post. I
couldn't find a Post article on this from 2001, but I did find this one from
2002--which says that Bush spent 42% of his term to date (Sept. 3, 2002) at
vacation locations:
Bush has spent a whopping total of 250 days of his presidency at Camp David
(123 days), Kennebunkport (12) and his Texas ranch (115). That means Bush
has spent 42 percent of his term so far at one of his three leisure
destinations.
It's obvious that these "vacation days" include weekends. (You can do the math:
250/x=42/100; x=595 days=1.63 years). Okay, 42% is a lot of vacation, but
weekends account for 29% of our time. I'm sure that a lot of this "vacation"
time is just Bush going to Camp David for the weekend. Can we really fault the
President for going to Camp David on weekends? If you take out weekends, you
get 42%-29%, or 13% of the time that Bush was on vacation.
Okay, this is still a lot, although 13% looks a lot better than 42%. Over a
year, 13% is about 6.76 weeks of the year--which is still much more than most of
us. But we know that Bush's vacations are generally working vacations. For
example, he has hosted visits from leaders like Putin, Fox, and many others
there. This hardly seems like a real vacation.
..]
little_people
> gk says...
> Fiction generally does do better than documentaries.
Then F9/11 should do better than other documentaries, if it plays as fast and
loose with the facts as its predecessors.
Clave
news:46ODc.6900$H4....@www.newsranger.com...
> > In article <10dvaei...@corp.supernews.com>,
> > Clave says...
> > > Bill Bonde wrote...
> > > > Clave wrote:
>
> > > > I've asked you to document the lies. You can't.
>
> > > How many times do you want me to document them before you don't deny
> > > that I've at least given it a shot?
>
> > Once would be nice.
>
> http://lawroark.blog-city.com/read/663671.htm
>
> [...
Get back to us when you have a documented lie.
Jim
Gary DeWaay
> http://lawroark.blog-city.com/read/663671.htm
>
> [...
> I haven't seen Fahrenheit 9/11, but I know that Mr. Moore alleges that Bush
> spent 42% of his first eight months in office (before 9/11) on vacation, and
> that he proudly declares that this figure came from the Washington Post. I
> couldn't find a Post article on this from 2001, but I did find this one from
> 2002--which says that Bush spent 42% of his term to date (Sept. 3, 2002) at
> vacation locations:
>
> Bush has spent a whopping total of 250 days of his presidency at Camp David
> (123 days), Kennebunkport (12) and his Texas ranch (115). That means Bush
> has spent 42 percent of his term so far at one of his three leisure
> destinations.
>
> It's obvious that these "vacation days" include weekends. (You can do the math:
> 250/x=42/100; x=595 days=1.63 years). Okay, 42% is a lot of vacation, but
> weekends account for 29% of our time. I'm sure that a lot of this "vacation"
> time is just Bush going to Camp David for the weekend. Can we really fault the
> President for going to Camp David on weekends? If you take out weekends, you
> get 42%-29%, or 13% of the time that Bush was on vacation.
>
> Okay, this is still a lot, although 13% looks a lot better than 42%. Over a
> year, 13% is about 6.76 weeks of the year--which is still much more than most of
> us. But we know that Bush's vacations are generally working vacations. For
> example, he has hosted visits from leaders like Putin, Fox, and many others
> there. This hardly seems like a real vacation.
> ..]
>
Now wait... 8*30*.42 = roughly 100 days. If you subtract the weekends
out (8*4*2) that leaves you with 36 days of "working vacation."
Where else can someone pull this off on their first 8 months on the job?
Bushman
"Clave" <ClaviusFair...@cablespeed.com> wrote in message
news:10dv3t5...@corp.supernews.com...
> "gk" <gre...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:Y4MDc.13012$6r1.7171@fed1read06...
> > "Bill Bonde ( ``There's sunshine in my stomach'' )"
> > wrote in message news:40DF89ED...@backpacker.com...
> > >
> > >
> > > gk wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > only did $21 million. Hardly what Passion of the Christ did its
first
> > > > weekend,
> > > > > which did $67 mill its first weeek, BTW.
> > > >
> > > >
> >
>
> How about a cite from a professional pheelm expert saying Bonzo's as fulla
shit
> as ever?
>
>
>
> June 18, 2004
>
> BY ROGER EBERT FILM CRITIC
>
> A reader writes:
>
> "In your articles discussing Michael Moore's film 'Fahrenheit 9/11,'
> you call it a documentary. I always thought of documentaries as
> presenting facts objectively without editorializing. While I have
> enjoyed many of Mr. Moore's films, I don't think they fit the
> definition of a documentary."
>
> That's where you're wrong. Most documentaries, especially the best ones,
have an
> opinion and argue for it. Even those that pretend to be objective reflect
the
> filmmaker's point of view. Moviegoers should observe the bias, take it
into
> account and decide if the film supports it or not.
>
> Michael Moore is a liberal activist. He is the first to say so. He is
alarmed by
> the prospect of a second term for George W. Bush, and made "Fahrenheit
9/11" for
> the purpose of persuading people to vote against him.
>
> That is all perfectly clear, and yet in the days before the film opens
June 25,
> there'll be bountiful reports by commentators who are shocked! shocked!
that
> Moore's film is partisan. "He doesn't tell both sides," we'll hear,
especially
> on Fox News, which is so famous for telling both sides.
>
> The wise French director Godard once said, "The way to criticize a film is
to
> make another film." That there is not a pro-Bush documentary available
right now
> I am powerless to explain. Surely, however, the Republican National
Convention
> will open with such a documentary, which will position Bush comfortably
between
> Ronald Reagan and God. The Democratic convention will have a wondrous film
about
> John Kerry. Anyone who thinks one of these documentaries is "presenting
facts
> objectively without editorializing" should look at the other one.
>
> The pitfall for Moore is not subjectivity, but accuracy. We expect him to
hold
> an opinion and argue it, but we also require his facts to be correct. I
was an
> admirer of his previous doc, the Oscar-winning "Bowling for Columbine,"
until I
> discovered that some of his "facts" were wrong, false or fudged.
>
> In some cases, he was guilty of making a good story better, but in other
cases
> (such as his ambush of Charlton Heston) he was unfair, and in still others
(such
> as the wording on the plaque under the bomber at the Air Force Academy) he
was
> just plain wrong, as anyone can see by going to look at the plaque.
>
I have to agree with you about the interview with Heston - it was absolutely
uncalled for. Besides that, I was practically born with a gun in my hands,
as were most other people in rural Wisconsin, and there was never, in my
memory, a gun-related homicide unless it was in response to self-defense or
defense of property. Guns aren't the problem.
The interview with Heston made me ashamed of the whole movie. However, a
friend of mine went to Moore's latest on Saturday (like a surprisingly large
number of people here, I don't go to theaters either), and I trust her
judgement - she said the theater was packed except for the first two rows,
and at the end, the crowd cheered and clapped until after the credits rolled
by. Plainly, it strikes a chord, and I think the points he makes will stand
up to scrutiny. For instance, the claim about the Saudis being spirited out
of the country right after 9-11evidently IS accurate. Most of the film just
shows Bush talking, so Moore lets him hang himself. Neat.
Moore worries me, but I think Roger and Me and Stupid White Men were
right on, and, apparently, F-11 is too, thankfully. Whatever its merits, it
has people talking and being exposed to film-clips that are public record.
Couple that with demonstrations In Ireland a few days ago, where 1/3 of the
military and 1/2 of their police were needed just to keep protestors a few
hundred yards away from the most isolated appointed president we've ever
had. In Turkey he will be facing a populace that is 90% against his
policies, and most of Europe feels the same way. It must be a source of
consternation to the neocons that they may have fooled half of this country
but not the rest of the world.
Bushman
little_people
> little_people says...
> > Once would be nice.
> http://lawroark.blog-city.com/read/663671.htm
That "13%" figure seems incorrect. If we assume that 29% of those 250 days were
weekends, then we get .29 x 250 = 72.5 weekend days. Discount them from the
total and were left with 178 days, which represents 30% of the time that Bush
was "on vacation".
In any event, the point is that Bush was not "on vacation" (e.g., shooting
drives on the back nine or whatever) for 42% of his first eight months in
office. He was at "leisure destinations", to be sure, but he was apparently
conducting Presidential business during much of the time he spent there.
So Moore's assertion is, at best, misleading.
little_people
> Gary DeWaay says...
> > little_people posted...
> > http://lawroark.blog-city.com/read/663671.htm
> Now wait... 8*30*.42 = roughly 100 days. If you subtract the weekends
> out (8*4*2) that leaves you with 36 days of "working vacation."
> Where else can someone pull this off on their first 8 months on the job?
Well, first of all, we're apparently talking about 42% of the first *595* days
(1.63 years), not the first 8 months (as Moore asserts). And if we subtract
weekends, then we're talking about 178 out of those 595 that Bush was working
away from the office (in between whatever actual "vacation" vacation that he
ever actually took).
The point isn't what Bush or any other sitting President can pull off during the
first 8 months on the job. The point is that Moore's characterization paints a
picture of someone who spent nearly half of his first months in office before
9/11 hitting golf balls around Kennybuttfuck or wherever.
It's an erroneous impression. It is, in fact, a lie.
gk
> >From: "gk"
>
> >> Why not? I believe someone here was claiming it would do as well, if
not
> >> better. Don't recall who though.
> >
> >No, Georgann was stating that it wouldn't do as well.
>
> Then Georgann was correct, wasn't she?
She really went out on a limb there, didn't she.
Charles Nemo
of his rat bastard son Dubya!
Charles Nemo
http://members.aol.com/ChasNemo/index.html
"Nemo is the Wal-Mart of the dark side, the one-stop superstore for everything
ugly, from Satanism to Nazi occultism to serial killers."
~Forbidden Internet Magazine #1 (May 2001)
Charles Nemo
>Clave wrote:
>>
>> "Tinas49ers" <tinas...@aol.com> wrote in message
>> news:20040627212533...@mb-m28.aol.com...
>> >
>> > only did $21 million. Hardly what Passion of the Christ did its first
>> > weekend, which did $67 mill its first weeek, BTW.
>>
>> Wrong, and who cares?
>>
>> Passion did almost $84M its opening weekend, and seven other movies have
>done
>> *far* better than that. No other *documentary* has ever done this well
>> (although I suppose you're one of those who belive Passion was a
>documentary).
>>
>Passion was more of a documentary than this latest Moore monstrosity.
You are soooooooo full of shit, fuckwit. Did you even *see* the Moore
documentary?
Charles Nemo
You were there.
>Tin@
>Please be patient with me. God is not finished with me yet.
He's made a mess so far.
>'Evil triumphs when the good people remain silent'
That's exactly why we're going to make *sure* Bu$h goes. The elections are
coming -- no more years for Bu$h and his war criminal cohorts!!!
Charles Nemo
>Tinas49ers wrote:
>>
>> >From: "gk"
>>
>> > It's already
>> >matched Bowling for Columbine's total box office take.
>>
>> That one was nearly impossible to find in the theatres, at least when I
>went
>> looking.
>>
>Who wants to go to a theatre to watch a documentary? This harks back to
>the pre-TV era and the newsreels.
About 4 million people went the first weekend, fool.
Charles Nemo
>"Scott C. Smith" wrote:
>>
>> "Bill Bonde ( ``There's sunshine in my stomach'' )"
><std...@backpacker.com>
>> wrote in message news:40DF89ED...@backpacker.com...
>> >
>> >
>> > gk wrote:
>> > >
>> > > "Tinas49ers" <tinas...@aol.com> wrote in message
>> > > news:20040627212533...@mb-m28.aol.com...
>> > > > only did $21 million. Hardly what Passion of the Christ did its first
>> > > weekend,
>> > > > which did $67 mill its first weeek, BTW.
>> > >
>> > > Fiction generally does do better than documentaries.
>> > >
>> > Because documentaries are limited to telling the truth in an honest
>> > manner examining all points of view, at least they were. With Moore, we
>> > have the 'documentary' that is just his own bizarre fiction. Moore has
>> > even claimed that the Soviet Union didn't start the arms race in the
>> > Cold War.
>>
>> Did you see "Fahrenheit 9/11"?
>>
>No.
The STFU about the documentary until you *have* seen it, shitlips.
Charles Nemo
>>From: "Clave"
>
>>
>>"Bill Bonde ( ``There's sunshine in my stomach'' )" <std...@backpacker.com>
>>wrote in message news:40DF8D5B...@backpacker.com...
>>>
>>>
>>> "Scott C. Smith" wrote:
>>> >
>>> > "Bill Bonde ( ``There's sunshine in my stomach'' )"
>><std...@backpacker.com>
>>> > wrote in message news:40DF89ED...@backpacker.com...
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > > gk wrote:
>>> > > >
>>> > > > "Tinas49ers" <tinas...@aol.com> wrote in message
>>> > > > news:20040627212533...@mb-m28.aol.com...
>>> > > > > only did $21 million. Hardly what Passion of the Christ did its
>>first
>>> > > > weekend,
>>> > > > > which did $67 mill its first weeek, BTW.
>>> > > >
>>> > > > Fiction generally does do better than documentaries.
>>> > > >
>>> > > Because documentaries are limited to telling the truth in an honest
>>> > > manner examining all points of view, at least they were. With Moore,
>we
>>> > > have the 'documentary' that is just his own bizarre fiction. Moore has
>>> > > even claimed that the Soviet Union didn't start the arms race in the
>>> > > Cold War.
>>> >
>>> > Did you see "Fahrenheit 9/11"?
>>>
>>> No.
>>
>>Then go fuck yourself.
>>
>>Hey, that *does* feel better!
>>
>>Jim
>>
>
>See, Cheney knows best.
And you call yourself a xtian, o hypocritical ho.
Tinas49ers
That's not the point. The point is it did better.
Tin@
Please be patient with me. God is not finished with me yet.
'Evil triumphs when the good people remain silent'
Save a life, give blood
1-800-GIVE LIFE
Tinas49ers
>
>"Tinas49ers" <tinas...@aol.com> wrote in message
>news:20040628002127...@mb-m15.aol.com...
>> >From: "Clave"
>>
>> >"Tinas49ers" <tinas...@aol.com> wrote in message
>> >news:20040628000322...@mb-m15.aol.com...
>> >> >From: "Clave"
>
><...>
>
>> >> >You referred to Gibson's fictious [sic] "Passion". That's FICTION.
>> >> >Maybe you aren't smart enough to know that.
>> >>
>> >> I know what happened in the movie happened, maybe not word for word or
>> >> scene by scene, but Jesus was crucified and rose from the dead. Maybe
>> >> you dont have enough faith to believe that. Pity.
>> >
>> >See, I knew that was what you were avoiding (like a typical shirtsleeve
>> >Christian), because unlike the verifiable FACTS Moore documents in his
>> >film, you have to accept the Passion on blind faith. That makes it
>FICTION.
>>
>> To you. I know it happened.
>
>No, you *believe* it happened.
No, I know, why would you think I don't know? It's documented what
happened...or haven't you heard?
Gary DeWaay
> > Now wait... 8*30*.42 = roughly 100 days. If you subtract the weekends
> > out (8*4*2) that leaves you with 36 days of "working vacation."
>
> > Where else can someone pull this off on their first 8 months on the job?
>
> Well, first of all, we're apparently talking about 42% of the first *595* days
> (1.63 years), not the first 8 months (as Moore asserts). And if we subtract
> weekends, then we're talking about 178 out of those 595 that Bush was working
> away from the office (in between whatever actual "vacation" vacation that he
> ever actually took).
>
> The point isn't what Bush or any other sitting President can pull off during the
> first 8 months on the job. The point is that Moore's characterization paints a
> picture of someone who spent nearly half of his first months in office before
> 9/11 hitting golf balls around Kennybuttfuck or wherever.
>
> It's an erroneous impression. It is, in fact, a lie.
>
OMG... bin Laden was the son of divorced parents and now this????? Bush
wasn't playing golf for 42% of his time off?
By all means do not see this film LP. It's FULL of lies!
Ian Crowe
loose?
Ian
Mr. Red
<buckle...@hfx.eastlink.ca> wrote:
Ian,
Is the film playing in Canada?
If so, what are the reactions to it so far?
Cheers,
M. Rouge
--
"If the cause be not good, the King himself hath a heavy reckoning to make,
when all those legs, and arms, and heads, chopped off in a battle, shall
join together at the latter day and cry all, 'We died at such a place.'"
--Henry V
Bill Bonde ( ``There's sunshine in my stomach'' )
Charles Nemo wrote:
>
> "Bill Bonde ( ``There's sunshine in my stomach'' )" whined:
>
> >"Scott C. Smith" wrote:
> >>
> >> "Bill Bonde ( ``There's sunshine in my stomach'' )"
> ><std...@backpacker.com>
> >> wrote in message news:40DF89ED...@backpacker.com...
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > gk wrote:
> >> > >
> >> > > "Tinas49ers" <tinas...@aol.com> wrote in message
> >> > > news:20040627212533...@mb-m28.aol.com...
> >> > > > only did $21 million. Hardly what Passion of the Christ did its first
> >> > > weekend,
> >> > > > which did $67 mill its first weeek, BTW.
> >> > >
> >> > > Fiction generally does do better than documentaries.
> >> > >
> >> > Because documentaries are limited to telling the truth in an honest
> >> > manner examining all points of view, at least they were. With Moore, we
> >> > have the 'documentary' that is just his own bizarre fiction. Moore has
> >> > even claimed that the Soviet Union didn't start the arms race in the
> >> > Cold War.
> >>
> >> Did you see "Fahrenheit 9/11"?
> >>
> >No.
>
> The STFU about the documentary until you *have* seen it, shitlips.
>
Everything I've said about Moore and his "documentaries" has been based
on seeing them and reading his books.
--
"He named his second child Jim after the horse that had brought him to
Washington. He caught his son one day writing 'James' on his lessons,
and he told the boy without raising his voice that if he had wanted to
name him 'James', that is what he would have done." -+Edward P. Jones,
"The Known World"
Bill Bonde ( ``There's sunshine in my stomach'' )
Charles Nemo wrote:
>
> "Bill Bonde ( ``There's sunshine in my stomach'' )" whined:
>
> >Clave wrote:
> >>
> >> "Tinas49ers" <tinas...@aol.com> wrote in message
> >> news:20040627212533...@mb-m28.aol.com...
> >> >
> >> > only did $21 million. Hardly what Passion of the Christ did its first
> >> > weekend, which did $67 mill its first weeek, BTW.
> >>
> >> Wrong, and who cares?
> >>
> >> Passion did almost $84M its opening weekend, and seven other movies have
> >done
> >> *far* better than that. No other *documentary* has ever done this well
> >> (although I suppose you're one of those who belive Passion was a
> >documentary).
> >>
> >Passion was more of a documentary than this latest Moore monstrosity.
>
> You are soooooooo full of shit, fuckwit. Did you even *see* the Moore
> documentary?
>
I've said several times that I have not seen "Fahrenheit 9/11".
Bill Bonde ( ``There's sunshine in my stomach'' )
Would this be a 'lie' defined differently from the one you and your Lib
pals use on me?
Bill Bonde ( ``There's sunshine in my stomach'' )
Gary DeWaay wrote:
>
> Now wait... 8*30*.42 = roughly 100 days. If you subtract the weekends
> out (8*4*2) that leaves you with 36 days of "working vacation."
>
> Where else can someone pull this off on their first 8 months on the job?
>
A president goes to his home West of Washington DC, an option usually
available given the location of Washington DC, and then uses that
locations as a base to be the president to the outside the beltway folks
and that's "vacation"?
mms...@nova.com
>only did $21 million. Hardly what Passion of the Christ did its first weekend,
>which did $67 mill its first weeek, BTW.
>
You could have said more: "The Passion of the Christ" made more in its *opening
day* -- and that was a Wednesday -- than "Fahrenheit 9/11" did in its first
*three days.* But "The Passion of the Christ" was shown in more than 3,000
theaters, from its opening day.
http://www.boxofficemojo.com/movies/?page=daily&id=passionofthechrist.htm
"Fahrenheit 9/11" was shown in 868 theaters.
This is why people are impressed by "Fahrenheit 9/11:" it "became the
highest-grossing documentary of all time on its first weekend in release, taking
in $21.8 million as it packed theaters across the country this weekend. . . .
Mr. Moore's 2002 film, 'Bowling for Columbine,' had held the record for the
highest-earning documentary until this weekend, taking in $21.6 million in its
domestic run."
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/06/28/movies/28BOX.html?hp
See? Michael Moore won an Academy Award for "Bowling for Columbine," which was
the highest-earning documentary until this weekend, but "Bowling for Columbine"
took in less during its entire domestic run than "Fahrenheit 9/11" has in three
days. You'd do better, Tina, to denigrate "Bowling for Columbine," which
doesn't seem like such a big deal, now that "Fahrenheit 9/11" has done so much
better.
Here's another way to judge the success of "Fahrenheit 9/11":
"'White Chicks' took in $19.6 million for the weekend on 2,726 screens, while
'DodgeBall' took in $18.5 million on 3,020. 'Fahrenheit 9/11,' rated R, was
released on 868 screens."
"Fahrenheit 9/11" will never be able to match "The Passion of the Christ" as a
money-maker. But it's not doing too badly.
mms...@nova.com
[snip]
>
>I have to agree with you about the interview with Heston - it was absolutely
>uncalled for.
"Uncalled for"? Charlton Heston became the president and spokesman of the NRA
in 1998 -- the year *before* the Columbine shootings. The Columbine shootings
happened in April 1999. Mr. Heston spoke at the NRA's annual meeting in Denver
on May 1, 1999, 10 days after the Columbine shootings, with reference to how
upset people were over the Columbine shootings. In 2001, Mr. Heston was
re-elected to a 3-year position on the NRA Board of Directors. "Bowling for
Columbine" came out in 2002. Mr. Heston did not step down as president of the
NRA until 2003 -- the year *after* "Bowling for Columbine" came out.
Who, in your opinion, should have spoken for the NRA, if not the man the NRA put
into the position of speaking for the NRA?
Mr. Heston decided to talk to Michael Moore on camera. He could have said,
"No," he could have said, "Come back later," but instead he said, "Yes." A
whore can have a personal life.
When a journalist slips the leash and makes Dubya look more foolish than usual,
as he responds with absurd claims and bluster, is that "uncalled for," too?
>Besides that, I was practically born with a gun in my hands,
>as were most other people in rural Wisconsin, and there was never, in my
>memory, a gun-related homicide unless it was in response to self-defense or
>defense of property.
When I was growing up, there were no school shootings in the schools I attended.
Michael Moore must be just making this stuff up.
It makes me wonder how property is defended in other places, where people don't
have guns in their homes. I mean, if you don't have a quick and easy way to
kill people. . . . Oh, my God, I'm defenseless!
>Guns aren't the problem.
This is how I know that you never actually saw "Bowling for Columbine."
> The interview with Heston made me ashamed of the whole movie.
My, my. Are you often "ashamed" of other people's accomplishments? Of their
big, fat successes, which are then followed by even bigger and fatter successes?
Not a word from you about being "ashamed" of the NRA's use of Charlton Heston.
They didn't keep him around to be thoughtful and articulate. That "from my
cold, dead hands" routine of his was what brought the johns to orgasm. Did that
ever make you "ashamed"? No, that's OK with you, apparently, because the NRA
always left a few crumpled bills on Mr. Heston's dresser.
[snip]
Otis
<mms...@nova.com> wrote
snippity snip snip....
>
> Mr. Heston decided to talk to Michael Moore on camera. He could have
said,
> "No," he could have said, "Come back later," but instead he said, "Yes."
A
> whore can have a personal life.
>
Just playing Devil's Advocate here. Is it possible that MM was misleading
in the way he was granted the interview? From my recollection, he tole CH
that he was an NRA member, which he was or possibly still is. Maybe CH
assumed since MM was an NRA member the interview would be something OTHER
then what it turned out to be.
Maybe I'm blaming CH for not doing his homework and finding out who this MM
person is/was prior to allowing the interview. Still, would you concede
that MM used some shaky credentials to get his foot in the door for the
interview?
What I found most amazing about BFC wasn't the Heston interview but was the
Marilyn Manson job. Here, I was expecting some half baked looney bin
responses. I was stunned to find Manson probably made more sense then any
other celebrity interviewed in that film. How come nobody in the mainstream
media points at THAT interview?
georgann
> Passion did almost $84M its opening weekend, and seven other movies have done
> *far* better than that. No other *documentary* has ever done this well
> (although I suppose you're one of those who belive Passion was a documentary).
georgann (forgiven since 33 AD) wrote:
By the end of your days you will know that The Passion of the Christ was
more a documentary than F911.
--
(`'ท.ธ(`'ท.ธ(`'ท.ธ ธ.ท'ด)ธ.ท'ด)ธ.ท'ด)
ซดจ`ท.ธธ ธธ.ทดจ `ป
All your prophecy are belong to Christ!
(ธ.ท'ด(ธ.ท'ด(ธ.ท'ด `'ท.ธ)`'ท.ธ)`'ท.ธ)
Bill Bonde ( ``There's sunshine in my stomach'' )
Gary DeWaay wrote:
>
> Bill Bonde ( ``There's sunshine in my stomach'' )'s wisdom:
>
>
> > > The lies that you can't list?
> > >
> > I've repeatedly listed examples of Moore lying.
> >
> > #begin quote
> > Moore claims that Bush is connected to "bin Laden's family". He implies
> > this is Osama bin Laden's patriarchal family but it isn't, rather it is
> > the most powerful non-royal family in Saudi Arabia, the patriarchal
> > Mohammed bin Laden family. Osama is the only son of a divorced wife of
> > twelve wives of a long dead Mohammed bin Laden, hardly the connection
> > implied even if you ignore all the efforts to distance themselves from
> > Osama.
> > #end quote
> >
>
> Lol! Ok Bill. I guess that convinces me! Micheal Moore is one lying
> cocksucking son of a bitch!
>
That was but one example of Moore's dishonesty.
Clave
> >From: "Clave"
>
> >
> >"Tinas49ers" <tinas...@aol.com> wrote in message
> >news:20040628002127...@mb-m15.aol.com...
> >> >From: "Clave"
> >>
> >> >"Tinas49ers" <tinas...@aol.com> wrote in message
> >> >news:20040628000322...@mb-m15.aol.com...
> >> >> >From: "Clave"
> >
> ><...>
> >
> >> >> >You referred to Gibson's fictious [sic] "Passion". That's FICTION.
> >> >> >Maybe you aren't smart enough to know that.
> >> >>
> >> >> I know what happened in the movie happened, maybe not word for word or
> >> >> scene by scene, but Jesus was crucified and rose from the dead. Maybe
> >> >> you dont have enough faith to believe that. Pity.
> >> >
> >> >See, I knew that was what you were avoiding (like a typical shirtsleeve
> >> >Christian), because unlike the verifiable FACTS Moore documents in his
> >> >film, you have to accept the Passion on blind faith. That makes it
> >FICTION.
> >>
> >> To you. I know it happened.
> >
> >No, you *believe* it happened.
>
>
> No, I know, why would you think I don't know? It's documented what
> happened...or haven't you heard?
You snipped the part you should have paid attention to:
Not that I expect you to appreciate the distinction -- that's why you were
compelled to draw the comparison in the first place.
Jim
Clave
>
> Gary DeWaay wrote:
> >
> > Bill Bonde ( ``There's sunshine in my stomach'' )'s wisdom:
> >
> >
> > > > The lies that you can't list?
> > > >
> > > I've repeatedly listed examples of Moore lying.
> > >
> > > #begin quote
> > > Moore claims that Bush is connected to "bin Laden's family". He implies
> > > this is Osama bin Laden's patriarchal family but it isn't, rather it is
> > > the most powerful non-royal family in Saudi Arabia, the patriarchal
> > > Mohammed bin Laden family. Osama is the only son of a divorced wife of
> > > twelve wives of a long dead Mohammed bin Laden, hardly the connection
> > > implied even if you ignore all the efforts to distance themselves from
> > > Osama.
> > > #end quote
> > >
> >
> > Lol! Ok Bill. I guess that convinces me! Micheal Moore is one lying
> > cocksucking son of a bitch!
> >
> That was but one example of Moore's dishonesty.
Bonzo's whole argument is that Osama bin Laden isn't part of the bin Laden
family.
Heh.
Jim
Clave
>
> Clave wrote:
> >
> > "little_people" <nos...@newsranger.com> wrote in message
> > news:46ODc.6900$H4....@www.newsranger.com...
> > > > In article <10dvaei...@corp.supernews.com>,
> > > > Clave says...
> > > > > Bill Bonde wrote...
> > > > > > Clave wrote:
> > >
> > > > > > I've asked you to document the lies. You can't.
> > >
> > > > > How many times do you want me to document them before you don't deny
> > > > > that I've at least given it a shot?
> > >
> > > > Once would be nice.
> > >
> > > http://lawroark.blog-city.com/read/663671.htm
> > >
> > > [...
> > > I haven't seen Fahrenheit 9/11...
> >
> > Get back to us when you have a documented lie.
> >
> Would this be a 'lie' defined differently from the one you and your Lib
> pals use on me?
No, the kind of lie you usually get called on will do just fine.
Jim
Clave
news:BD05BBC5.68D7%chen...@mindspring.com...
> "Clave" wrote:
>
> > Passion did almost $84M its opening weekend, and seven other movies have
> > done *far* better than that. No other *documentary* has ever done this
> > well (although I suppose you're one of those who belive Passion was a
> > documentary).
>
> georgann (forgiven since 33 AD) wrote:
>
> By the end of your days you will know that The Passion of the Christ was
> more a documentary than F911.
FREE CLUE: Words mean things. And not what *you* think they mean.
Jim
mms...@nova.com
>
><mms...@nova.com> wrote
>
>snippity snip snip....
>
>>
>> Mr. Heston decided to talk to Michael Moore on camera. He could have
>said, "No," he could have said, "Come back later," but instead he said, "Yes."
>A whore can have a personal life.
>>
>
>Just playing Devil's Advocate here.
Quite all right with me. I think Michael Moore's arguments can be criticized,
and people can object to the way he edits his interviews. But it's a bit much
to complain that an interview with the NRA president and spokesman is
"absolutely uncalled for" in a documentary about violence in the United States.
I'm willing to accept that "guns aren't the problem." But where does that leave
us? Must we also deny that there is a problem? If we acknowledge that there is
a problem, are we forced to blame our ethnicity?
>Is it possible that MM was misleading in the way he was granted the interview?
>From my recollection, he tole CH that he was an NRA member, which he was or possibly still is.
World Net Daily carried a column in which this claim is made:
"However, you might be surprised to know Michael Moore himself grew up in a gun
family, and currently counts himself a 'Life Member' of the NRA."
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=31728
It's my understanding that Mr. Moore showed Mr. Heston his membership card. If
all NRA members have to surrender their faculties for critical thinking for the
period of their membership, then I will admit that poor Charlton Heston was
ambushed by a rogue NRA member. But I thought the slogan was, "I'm the NRA."
Surely that slogan applies to each member.
>Maybe CH assumed since MM was an NRA member the interview would be something OTHER
>then what it turned out to be.
>
Mr. Heston knew, going in, that the interview wasn't scripted. Mr. Heston had
complete control over his responses. It was my impression that the interview
ended in the way that Mr. Heston decided to end it.
>Maybe I'm blaming CH for not doing his homework and finding out who this MM
>person is/was prior to allowing the interview.
Would that be inappropriate?
Mr. Heston doesn't have to allow interviews to anyone, certainly not to a
stranger, a nobody, who drops by without an invitation or advance notice -- as
we assume Mr. Moore was to Mr. Heston.
>Still, would you concede that MM used some shaky credentials to get his foot in the door for the
>interview?
>
Why should I concede that, without knowing whether that was the case? Isn't an
NRA member with an ax to grind still an NRA member?
What reason do we have to believe that Michael Moore promised Charlton Heston
that he was slanting his project in favor of the NRA, and wanted Mr. Heston's
cooperation?
Perhaps we are simply to assume that Mr. Moore must have assured Mr. Heston, or
just led him to believe (wink, wink, nudge, nudge), that he was there to set up
Mr. Heston to knock a big hanging curve ball out of the park. So does Mr.
Moore's dishonesty consist of his failing to be dishonest in the way that Mr.
Heston was expecting him to be?
Even if that were true, Mr. Heston ultimately had control of the situation. He
could have ended the interview at any time. He could have said, "I have no
comment." He could have said, "I have no theory to account for violence in the
United States." (Although he probably does, don't you think?) He could have
said, "Hey, I thought you were gonna be on our side." (Well, no, maybe not that
last one.) He could have gone way out on a limb, and said that he regretted the
loss of life -- the loss of children's lives -- while denying that the lawful
exercise of the Second Amendment was in any manner connected to children's being
shot.
Charlton Heston decided to work without a script and without editorial control
over the interview. He engaged Michael Moore in discussion, rather than being
noncommittal or resorting to canned responses. He didn't hide behind his
Alzheimer's diagnosis, which he made public several months after the world
premiere of "Bowling for Columbine" (and several months before the film's
general release).
"Heston's spokesman said the actor will maintain a political speaking schedule
and is in pre-production discussions on a movie.
Heston is president of the National Rifle Association. His term ends next April
and the spokesman said he intends to remain in that post."
http://www.cnn.com/2002/US/08/09/heston.illness/
http://movies.yahoo.com/shop?d=hp&cf=prev&id=1808421726&intl=us
Pretty brave -- but he's still not entitled to win every argument he decides to
enter. (Does *he* think he came off looking badly?)
>What I found most amazing about BFC wasn't the Heston interview but was the
>Marilyn Manson job. Here, I was expecting some half baked looney bin
>responses. I was stunned to find Manson probably made more sense then any
>other celebrity interviewed in that film. How come nobody in the mainstream
>media points at THAT interview?
>
Because Marilyn Manson looks like he does when he's dressed for work.
Otis
<mms...@nova.com> wrote in message
news:i2l0e0hbdqvi34v9h...@4ax.com...
> on Mon, 28 Jun 2004 12:00:43 -0400, "Otis" <Oti...@rocketmail.com> wrote:
>
> >
> ><mms...@nova.com> wrote
> >
> >snippity snip snip....
> >
> >>
> >> Mr. Heston decided to talk to Michael Moore on camera. He could have
> >said, "No," he could have said, "Come back later," but instead he said,
"Yes."
> >A whore can have a personal life.
> >>
> >
> >Just playing Devil's Advocate here.
>
> Quite all right with me. I think Michael Moore's arguments can be
criticized,
> and people can object to the way he edits his interviews.
Snip....
With the all the sincereity one can muster. Thank you. I mean it.
Bill Bonde ( ``There's sunshine in my stomach'' )
I haven't told any lies yet clearly the stuff that Moore does is way
beyond what Liberals claim are lies if I were to say them.
Bill Bonde ( ``There's sunshine in my stomach'' )
Yea, they do:
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=documentary&r=67
#begin quote
Presenting facts objectively without editorializing or inserting
fictional matter, as in a book or film.
#end quote
Clave
>
>
> Clave wrote:
> >
> > "georgann" <chen...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
> > news:BD05BBC5.68D7%chen...@mindspring.com...
> > > "Clave" wrote:
> > >
> > > > Passion did almost $84M its opening weekend, and seven other movies have
> > > > done *far* better than that. No other *documentary* has ever done this
> > > > well (although I suppose you're one of those who belive Passion was a
> > > > documentary).
> > >
> > > georgann (forgiven since 33 AD) wrote:
> > >
> > > By the end of your days you will know that The Passion of the Christ was
> > > more a documentary than F911.
> >
> > FREE CLUE: Words mean things. And not what *you* think they mean.
> >
> Yea, they do:
>
> http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=documentary&r=67
> #begin quote
> Presenting facts objectively without editorializing or inserting
> fictional matter, as in a book or film.
> #end quote
Still waiting for what you consider to be fictional, Bonzo.
Jim
Gregory Morrow
Tunas49ers wrote:
> only did $21 million. Hardly what Passion of the Christ did its first
weekend,
> which did $67 mill its first weeek, BTW.
_Passion of the Christ_ dealt with a totally fictional character,
Tuna..._911_ is more of a documentary type thang....
--
Best
Greg
Gregory Morrow
Clave wrote:
> "Tinas49ers" <tinas...@aol.com> wrote in message
> news:20040627222745...@mb-m28.aol.com...
> > >From: "gk"
> > >"Tinas49ers" <tinas...@aol.com> wrote in message
> > >news:20040627212533...@mb-m28.aol.com...
> > >>
> > >> only did $21 million. Hardly what Passion of the Christ did its
> > >> first weekend, which did $67 mill its first weeek, BTW.
> > >
> > >Fiction generally does do better than documentaries.
> >
> > What does that have to do with this discussion?
>
> Since you really didn't have much of a point in the first place, I'd say
it's a
> perfectly cromulent thing to say.
Do you think Tuna could sit through Abel Gance's _Napoleon_ or _The Sorrow
And The Pity_...???
--
Best
Greg
Gregory Morrow
Tunas49ers wrote:
> I know what happened in the movie happened, maybe not word for word or
scene by
> scene, but Jesus was crucified and rose from the dead. Maybe you dont have
> enough faith to believe that. Pity.
Has nothin' to do with "faith"....but while we're on that subject Georgann
is certainly a better and more elegant writer than *you*....
--
Best
Greg
mms...@nova.com
>> In article <10dvaei...@corp.supernews.com>,
>> Clave says...
>> > Bill Bonde wrote...
>> > > Clave wrote:
>
>> > > I've asked you to document the lies. You can't.
>
>> > How many times do you want me to document them before you don't deny
>> > that I've at least given it a shot?
>
>> Once would be nice.
>
>http://lawroark.blog-city.com/read/663671.htm
>
Is this your work, or are you quoting someone else about a film you haven't
seen?
>[...
>I haven't seen Fahrenheit 9/11,
So he didn't see the film, either. Or is this you? Or are you Lee?
http://moorewatch.com/index.php/weblog/vacation/
Oh, I'm so confused!
> but I know
How?
>that Mr. Moore alleges
Say rather, that Mr. Moore "quotes"
>that Bush spent 42% of his first eight months in office (before 9/11) on vacation, and
>that he proudly declares that this figure came from the Washington Post. I
>couldn't find a Post article on this from 2001,
Charles Krauthammer was able to find it at the time:
"August 13, 2001/ 24 Menachem-Av, 5761
. . . . News coverage has pointedly stressed that W.'s month-long stay at his
ranch in Crawford is the longest presidential vacation in 32 years. Washington
Post supercomputers calculated that if you add up all his weekends at Camp
David, layovers at Kennebunkport and assorted to-ing and fro-ing, W. will have
spent 42 percent of his presidency 'at vacation spots or en route.'"
http://www.jewishworldreview.com/cols/krauthammer081301.asp
Maybe that's what Mr. Moore should have said: "Mr. Bush's month-long stay at
his ranch in Crawford in August 2001 was the longest presidential vacation in 32
years."
>but I did find this one from 2002--which says that Bush spent 42% of his term to date
>(Sept. 3, 2002) at vacation locations:
>
>Bush has spent a whopping total of 250 days of his presidency at Camp David
>(123 days), Kennebunkport (12) and his Texas ranch (115). That means Bush
>has spent 42 percent of his term so far at one of his three leisure
>destinations.
>
That's a quote from this article:
"Bush by the Numbers, as Told by a Diligent Scorekeeper
By Dana Milbank
Tuesday, September 3, 2002"
http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A27592-2002Sep2?language=printer
But what *Mr. Moore* is talking about was the period of seven-and-a-fraction
months *before* September 11, 2001, wasn't he?
>It's obvious that these "vacation days" include weekends. (You can do the math:
>250/x=42/100; x=595 days=1.63 years).
No, thanks. All I have to know is that one of those 1.63 years happened after
September 11, 2001, at which point, legend has it, Bunnypants got his focus on.
And yet, according to the September 3, 2002 article, he took as much vacation
*after* September 11, 2001 as he did *before* September 11, 2001.
>Okay, 42% is a lot of vacation,
I think that was probably why Mr. Moore included the quote.
>but weekends account for 29% of our time.
But *we* are not the President of the United States. If *we* were, *we* would
still be the President of the United States on Saturday and Sunday.
>I'm sure that a lot of this "vacation" time is just Bush going to Camp David for the
>weekend. Can we really fault the President for going to Camp David on weekends?
>If you take out weekends,
And *we* would do that because the executive branch is closed on Saturday and
Sunday?
>you get 42%-29%, or 13% of the time that Bush was on vacation.
>
Or you can look at it this way: spotted 29% of each week that he can be
presumed to be kicking back and swallowing pretzels, Bush takes even more time
away from the White House.
>Okay, this is still a lot,
That might have been Mr. Moore's point. (I'm guessing, I don't "know.")
>although 13% looks a lot better than 42%. Over a year, 13% is about 6.76
>weeks of the year--which is still much more than most of us.
More than six weeks, by a defender's calculation, in addition to all day every
Saturday and Sunday.
>But we know
There's that word, again.
>that Bush's vacations are generally working vacations. For example, he
>has hosted visits from leaders like Putin, Fox, and many others
>there. This hardly seems like a real vacation.
>..]
>
Le pauvre homme! Let's send him on a real vacation.
mms...@nova.com
>> In article <MPG.1b496d797...@news.midco.net>,
>> Gary DeWaay says...
>> > little_people posted...
>
>> > http://lawroark.blog-city.com/read/663671.htm
>
>> Now wait... 8*30*.42 = roughly 100 days. If you subtract the weekends
>> out (8*4*2) that leaves you with 36 days of "working vacation."
>
>> Where else can someone pull this off on their first 8 months on the job?
>
>Well, first of all, we're apparently
No. It isn't apparent at all, to anyone who can work Google.
>talking about 42% of the first *595* days
>(1.63 years), not the first 8 months (as Moore asserts).
Wrong. Just because the person you quote claims he can't find the quote about
Bush's vacations before September 11, 2001 -- including the entire month of
August 2001! -- doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Ask Charles Krauthammer to find
it again for you.
>And if we subtract weekends,
But WHY should we subtract weekends? Who is the President of the United States
on Saturdays and Sundays?
>then we're talking about 178 out of those 595 that Bush was working
>away from the office
And why should we believe your claim that Bush wasn't on vacation, but was
"working away from the office"?
>(in between whatever actual "vacation" vacation that he ever actually took).
>
Who would be President of the United States while Bush is on "'vacation'
vacation"?
>The point isn't what Bush or any other sitting President can pull off during the
>first 8 months on the job. The point is that Moore's characterization paints a
>picture of someone who spent nearly half of his first months in office
No -- the point is, Bush was "out of the office" for 42% of the first
seven-and-a-fraction months that he was "in office."
>before 9/11 hitting golf balls around Kennybuttfuck
Do you kiss Dick Cheney with that mouth?
>or wherever.
>
>It's an erroneous impression. It is, in fact, a lie.
>
The point of your posts has been to spread around erroneous impressions. You
did it in a characteristically sneaky way. First, you appear to quote someone
else ("Don't blame me! I read it on the Internet.") and then you twist that in a
laughable attempt to make Michael Moore -- accurately quoting a story in the
Washington Post -- appear to be lying.
You're too lazy to be any good at this.
Bill Bonde ( ``There's sunshine in my stomach'' )
You know that I've provided you with several examples so far.
Tinas49ers
>
>This is why people are impressed by "Fahrenheit 9/11:"
No one seemed much impressed, from what i could tell.
> You'd do better, Tina, to denigrate "Bowling for Columbine," which
>doesn't seem like such a big deal, now that "Fahrenheit 9/11" has done so
>much
>better.
Why would I waste my time? And for the record, I wasn't putting down F911, I
was just following up on an earlier post and talking about a subject that was
talked about all weekend, giving new info. I guess I should have let you do it,
since you the one with all the links.
>Fahrenheit 9/11" will never be able to match "The Passion of the Christ" as a
>money-maker.
Pretty much my point.
> But it's not doing too badly.
>
For its first week, if it drops drastically next week, then it just had first
weeks buzz. Again, I'm not putting down this movie. I'm a big fan of MM's and
plan to see the film next weekend.
Tinas49ers
>
>Clave wrote:
>>
>> "georgann" <chen...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
>> news:BD05BBC5.68D7%chen...@mindspring.com...
>> > "Clave" wrote:
>> >
>> > > Passion did almost $84M its opening weekend, and seven other movies
>have
>> > > done *far* better than that. No other *documentary* has ever done this
>> > > well (although I suppose you're one of those who belive Passion was a
>> > > documentary).
>> >
>> > georgann (forgiven since 33 AD) wrote:
>> >
>> > By the end of your days you will know that The Passion of the Christ was
>> > more a documentary than F911.
>>
>> FREE CLUE: Words mean things. And not what *you* think they mean.
>>
>Yea, they do:
>
>http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=documentary&r=67
>#begin quote
>Presenting facts objectively without editorializing or inserting
>fictional matter, as in a book or film.
>#end quote
>
>
>
Good job, Bill!