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When The Words Get In The Way

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SteveMR200

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Oct 6, 2013, 1:00:00 PM10/6/13
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If you can't say just what you mean, in words and
all other efforts at precise meaning, then sing it.
If you can't bawl it, yell it; if you can't yell it,
howl it; if you can't howl it, scream it; if you
can't scream it, try whispering it; if that does not
do, then whine and sob it.
--Bernard Berenson (1865-1959)
(In William Safire and Leonard Safir's
_Words of Wisdom_ [1989], "Assertiveness")

--
Steve

SteveMR200

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Oct 6, 2013, 8:00:09 PM10/6/13
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On Sun, 06 Oct 2013 10:00:00 -0700, SteveMR200 wrote in message:
<0o5359tjuhbo3tlpp...@4ax.com>:
Break, break, break,
On thy cold gray stones, O Sea!
And I would that my tongue could utter
The thoughts that arise in me.
--Alfred, Lord Tennyson (1809-1892)
_Break, Break, Break_ [1842]

--
Steve

SteveMR200

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Mar 16, 2014, 9:06:00 AM3/16/14
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On Sun, 06 Oct 2013 10:00:00 -0700, SteveMR200 wrote in message:
<0o5359tjuhbo3tlpp...@4ax.com>:

I very rarely think in words at all. A thought comes,
and I may try to express it in words afterwards.
--Albert Einstein (1879-1955)
(Remark to the author in Max Wertheimer's
_Productive Thinking_ [1959])

--
Steve

SteveMR200

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Mar 16, 2014, 8:30:00 PM3/16/14
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On Sun, 06 Oct 2013 10:00:00 -0700, SteveMR200 wrote in message:
<0o5359tjuhbo3tlpp...@4ax.com>:

"That's what's wrong with us!" he exclaimed, getting
up and walking about the room. "We can't talk.
Nobody but writers know how to put things into
words, and everybody goes around stuffed up
with things they want to say and can't."

It seemed to him that he had put his finger on the
secret of all human sorrow.

--Rebecca West (1892-1983)
_Life Sentence_ [1935]

--
Steve

Joe Fineman

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Mar 17, 2014, 5:47:30 PM3/17/14
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SteveMR200 <Steve...@aol.com> writes:

> "That's what's wrong with us!" he exclaimed, getting up and walking
> about the room. "We can't talk. Nobody but writers know how to put
> things into words, and everybody goes around stuffed up with things
> they want to say and can't."
>
> It seemed to him that he had put his finger on the secret of all human
> sorrow.
>
> --Rebecca West (1892-1983)
> _Life Sentence_ [1935]

And as fire...flickered on the cave-wall, they entrusted their knowledge
to language (that great preserver of knowledge),.... But language,
which always said too much or too little, was also a great corrupter of
knowledge. He who handled words most cunningly was seldom the wisest,
but the catchiest proverbs, not the truest, survived. (So even yet
those who speak English say:
Rain before seven,
Clear before eleven.
But those who speak other languages do not say that particular
foolishness, not because they are wiser, but because in their speech the
two numerals fail to rhyme.) -- George R. Stewart, _Storm_ (1941)
--
--- Joe Fineman jo...@verizon.net

||: Satan fell by force of gravity. :||

SteveMR200

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Mar 17, 2014, 8:10:00 PM3/17/14
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On Mon, 17 Mar 2014 17:47:30 -0400, Joe Fineman wrote in message:
<84bnx4f...@verizon.net>:

>And as fire...flickered on the cave-wall, they entrusted their knowledge
>to language (that great preserver of knowledge),.... But language,
>which always said too much or too little, was also a great corrupter of
>knowledge. He who handled words most cunningly was seldom the wisest,
>but the catchiest proverbs, not the truest, survived. (So even yet
>those who speak English say:
> Rain before seven,
> Clear before eleven.
>But those who speak other languages do not say that particular
>foolishness, not because they are wiser, but because in their
>speech the two numerals fail to rhyme.)
> -- George R. Stewart, _Storm_ (1941)

Winston roused himself a little from his lethargy.
He must speak to Ampleforth, and risk the yell from
the telescreen. It was even conceivable that
Ampleforth was the bearer of the razor blade.

"Ampleforth," he said. There was no yell from the
telescreen. Ampleforth paused, mildly startled.
His eyes focused themselves slowly on Winston.

"Ah, Smith!" he said. "You, too!"

"What are you in for?"

"To tell you the truth--" He sat down awkwardly on
the bench opposite Winston. "There is only one
offense, is there not?" he said.

"And have you committed it?"

"Apparently I have."

He put a hand to his forehead and pressed his temples
for a moment, as though trying to remember something.

"These things happen," he began vaguely. "I have
been able to recall one instance--a possible
instance. It was an indiscretion, undoubtedly. We
were producing a definitive edition of the poems of
Kipling. I allowed the word 'God' to remain at the
end of a line. I could not help it!" he added almost
indignantly, raising his face to look at Winston.

"It was impossible to change the line. The rhyme
was 'rod.' Do you realize that there are only
twelve rhymes to 'rod' in the entire language? For
days I had racked my brains. There was no other
rhyme."

The expression on his face changed. The annoyance
passed out of it and for a moment he looked almost
pleased. A sort of intellectual warmth, the joy of
the pendant who has found out some useless fact,
shone through the dirt and scrubby hair.

"Has it ever occurred to you," he said, "that the
whole history of English poetry has been determined
by the fact that the English language lacks rhymes?"

No, that particular thought had never occurred to
Winston. Nor, in the circumstances, did it strike
him as very important or interesting.

--George Orwell (1903-1950)
_Nineteen Eighty-Four_ [1949]; Chapter 3, Section I

--
Steve

Joe Fineman

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Mar 18, 2014, 2:22:22 PM3/18/14
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SteveMR200 <Steve...@aol.com> writes:

> "These things happen," he began vaguely. "I have been able to recall
> one instance--a possible instance. It was an indiscretion,
> undoubtedly. We were producing a definitive edition of the poems of
> Kipling. I allowed the word 'God' to remain at the end of a line. I
> could not help it!" he added almost indignantly, raising his face to
> look at Winston.
>
> "It was impossible to change the line. The rhyme was 'rod.' Do you
> realize that there are only twelve rhymes to 'rod' in the entire
> language? For days I had racked my brains. There was no other
> rhyme."

> --George Orwell (1903-1950)
> _Nineteen Eighty-Four_ [1949]; Chapter 3, Section I

From coupler-flange to spindle-guide I see Thy Hand, O God --
Predestination in the stride o' yon connectin'-rod.
-- Kipling, "McAndrew's Hymn" (1893)

David C Kifer

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Mar 18, 2014, 7:03:56 PM3/18/14
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They have looked each other between the eyes, and there they found no fault,
They have taken the Oath of the Brother-in-Blood on leavened bread and salt:
They have taken the Oath of the Brother-in-Blood on fire and fresh-cut sod,
On the hilt and the haft of the Khyber knife, and the Wondrous Names of God.
--Rudyard Kipling, THE BALLAD OF EAST AND WEST

I see my chance was certain of bein' horned or trod,
For the lower deck was packed with steers thicker'n peas in a pod,
An' more pens broke at every roll — so I made a Contract with God.
--Rudyard Kipling, MULHOLLAND'S CONTRACT


--
Dave
"Tam multi libri, tam breve tempus!"
(Et brevis pecunia.) [Et breve spatium.]

Joe Fineman

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Mar 19, 2014, 5:55:46 PM3/19/14
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I dare say, but "The rhyme was 'rod.'".
--
--- Joe Fineman jo...@verizon.net

||: "I need a man who can say no to me when I talk nonsense. :||
||: Are you that man?" "No." :||

David C Kifer

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Mar 20, 2014, 8:52:33 PM3/20/14
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True. I just wondered what Ampleforth did with all the other verses where Kipling used "God",
whether as part of the rhyme, or the many more places He was mentioned before the rhyme.


A Rose, in tatters on the garden path,
Cried out to God and murmured 'gainst His Wrath,
Because a sudden wind at twilight's hush
Had snapped her stem alone of all the bush.
And God, Who hears both sun-dried dust and sun,
Had pity, whispering to that luckless one,
"Sister, in that thou sayest We did not well —
What voices heardst thou when thy petals fell?"
And the Rose answered, "In that evil hour
A voice said, `Father, wherefore falls the flower?
For lo, the very gossamers are still.'
And a voice answered, `Son, by Allah's will!'"

Then softly as a rain-mist on the sward,
Came to the Rose the Answer of the Lord:
"Sister, before We smote the Dark in twain,
Ere yet the stars saw one another plain,
Time, Tide, and Space, We bound unto the task
That thou shouldst fall, and such an one should ask."
Whereat the withered flower, all content,
Died as they die whose days are innocent;
While he who questioned why the flower fell
Caught hold of God and saved his soul from Hell.
--Rudyard Kipling, THE ANSWER

SteveMR200

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Mar 21, 2014, 8:30:01 AM3/21/14
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On Mon, 17 Mar 2014 17:10:00 -0700, SteveMR200 wrote in message:
<af3fi9dsu0l3t58of...@4ax.com>:

>"Has it ever occurred to you," he [Ampleforth] said, "that
>the whole history of English poetry has been determined
>by the fact that the English language lacks rhymes?"
>
>No, that particular thought had never occurred to
>Winston. Nor, in the circumstances, did it strike
>him as very important or interesting.
>
> --George Orwell (1903-1950)
> _Nineteen Eighty-Four_ [1949]; Chapter 3, Section I

"I told you and the others that the next victim
might parallel the scourging and ridicule of Christ."

Carmen hiked an eyebrow. "Ridicule?"

"The crown of thorns. The Romans crucified Jesus
for claiming to be a king. Under Roman rule, only
Caesar could be called king. Jesus rode into
Jerusalem to much fanfare, like a king. The
religious leaders told Pontius Pilate and others
that Jesus had been claiming He was King of the
Jews. Pilate insisted that the phrase be hung over
Jesus' head while he was on the cross."

"So Pilate agreed Jesus was a king?"

"Hardly. He did it to annoy the Jewish leaders.
They didn't get along. The crown of thorns was
likely made from the acanthus plant and shoved on
Jesus' head to mock his self-proclaimed kingship."

"Sounds painful."

Ellis agreed. "More than most people know. Anyway,
Roman generals and leaders sometimes received a
civic crown made from oak leaves. They called it
the Corona Civica."

"A laurel wreath?"

"Yes. That began with the Greeks and, of course,
was made of bay laurel."

"Is this going anywhere, Professor?"

"Sorry. We academics like to talk about things
no one else is interested in."

--Alton Gansky
_Wounds_ [2013], Chapter 34

--
Steve

~~seadancer~~

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Mar 21, 2014, 11:52:30 AM3/21/14
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On 3/16/2014 9:06 AM, SteveMR200 wrote:
> I very rarely think in words at all. A thought comes,
> and I may try to express it in words afterwards.
> --Albert Einstein (1879-1955)
> (Remark to the author in Max Wertheimer's
> _Productive Thinking_ [1959])
> Steve

This is a very interesting quote, about not thinking in words.
Temple Grandin, a noted author who is autistic, says
that she doesn't think in words. Instead, she thinks in
pictures. She states that this is true of autistic people.

"I THINK IN PICTURES. Words are like a second language to me. I
translate both spoken and written words into full-color movies, complete
with sound, which run like a VCR tape in my head. When somebody speaks
to me, his words are instantly translated into pictures. Language-based
thinkers often find this phenomenon difficult to understand, but in my
job as an equipment designer for the livestock industry, visual thinking
is a tremendous advantage."
-Temple Grandin
http://www.grandin.com/inc/visual.thinking.html

“Children who are visual thinkers will often be good at drawing, other
arts, and building things with building toys such as Legos.”
-Temple Grandin, _Thinking In Pictures, My Life With Autism)

Tesla, an extremely productive technological innovator (fluorescent
lights, the A.C. generator, the "Tesla" coil), apparently had incredible
visualization powers. As described by J. J. O'Neill in _Prodigal
Genius: The Life of Nikola Tesla_, it was claimed that Tesla "could
project before his eyes a picture complete in every detail, of every
part of the machine. These pictures were more vivid than any blueprint."
-James L. Adams, _Conceptual Blockbusting: A Guide to Better Ideas_
[1974], "Perceptual Blocks"

-Sea

SteveMR200

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Mar 22, 2014, 9:10:00 AM3/22/14
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On Fri, 21 Mar 2014 11:52:30 -0400, ~~seadancer~~ wrote in message:
<lghn80$mid$1...@news.albasani.net>:

>On Sun, 16 Mar 2014 06:06:00 -0700, SteveMR200 wrote in message:
><fc8bi99sc4532lmgn...@4ax.com>:
>
>> I very rarely think in words at all. A thought comes,
>> and I may try to express it in words afterwards.
>> --Albert Einstein (1879-1955)
>> (Remark to the author in Max Wertheimer's
>> _Productive Thinking_ [1959])
>
>This is a very interesting quote, about not thinking in words.
>Temple Grandin, a noted author who is autistic, says
>that she doesn't think in words. Instead, she thinks in
>pictures. She states that this is true of autistic people.

Visualization, as well as other alternate thinking
languages, are used by highly-creative people to help
them transcend the limitations of words and to achieve
solutions to problems not otherwise attained.

ObQuote:
If more people would utilize mathematics in problem-
solving (even at a low level of competence) the overall
quality of solutions would benefit. Mathematical and
verbal thinking together allow much more powerful
attacks on problems than verbal thinking alone.

[...]

Visualization is an important thinking mode which is
especially useful in solving problems where shapes,
forms, or patterns are concerned. [Rudolf] Arnheim
explains: "Visual thinking is constantly used by
everybody. It directs figures on a chess board and
designs global politics on the geographical map.
Two dexterous moving men steering a piano along a
winding staircase think visually in an intricate
sequence of lifting, shifting, and turning. . . ."

All of us are used to using visual imagery in some
situations. For instance, visual imagery is extremely
common in dreams. It is also common if someone asks
us a question about the appearance of a person or a
place. But it is also used in conceptualization, at
times when you would not obviously expect its use.

In _The Act of Creation_ Koestler quotes Friedrich
Kekule, the famous chemist who discovered the
structure of the benzene ring in a dream after
having devoted a great deal of conscious thought to
its enigmatic structure. Kekule describes the
discovery.

"I turned my chair to the fire and dozed.
Again the atoms were gamboling before my eyes.
This time the smaller groups kept modestly in
the background. My mental eye, rendered more
acute by repeated visions of this kind, could
now distinguish larger structures, of manifold
conformation; long rows, sometimes more closely
fitted together; all twining and twisting in
snakelike motion. But look! What was that?
One of the snakes had seized hold of its own
tail, and the form whirled mockingly before my
eyes. As if by a flash of lightning, I awoke."

The result of the dream was Kekule's brilliant insight
that organic compounds such as benzene were closed
rings rather than open structures.

--James L. Adams
_Conceptual Blockbusting: A Guide to Better
Ideas_ [1974], Chapter 6

--
Steve

~~seadancer~~

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Mar 22, 2014, 9:08:09 PM3/22/14
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On 3/22/2014 9:10 AM, SteveMR200 wrote:
> On Fri, 21 Mar 2014 11:52:30 -0400, ~~seadancer~~ wrote
>> On Sun, 16 Mar 2014 06:06:00 -0700, SteveMR200 wrote
> Steve

Fascinating information, Steve! Many insights there.
---Sea
ObQ: “A moment's insight is sometimes worth a life's experience.”
-Oliver Wendell Holmes

SteveMR200

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Mar 23, 2014, 12:08:01 PM3/23/14
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On Sat, 22 Mar 2014 21:08:09 -0400, ~~seadancer~~ wrote in message:
<lglc5s$lmt$1...@news.albasani.net>:

>"A moment's insight is sometimes worth a life's experience."
>-Oliver Wendell Holmes

We learn from experience that men never learn
anything from experience.
--George Bernard Shaw (1856-1950)
(In Stephen Winston's
_The Wit And Wisdom of Bernard Shaw_ [1962])

--
Steve

SteveMR200

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Jul 12, 2015, 3:04:31 PM7/12/15
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On Sun, 06 Oct 2013 17:00:09 -0700, SteveMR200 wrote in message:
<tbu3591fm77s1nq92...@4ax.com>:
My life has been the poem I would have writ,
But I could not both live and utter it.
--Henry David Thoreau (1817-1862)
_A Week on the Concord and Merrimack Rivers_ [1849],
"My Life Has Been The Poem I Would Have Writ"

--
Steve

SteveMR200

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Jul 14, 2015, 9:40:56 PM7/14/15
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On Sun, 06 Oct 2013 10:00:00 -0700, SteveMR200 wrote in message:
<0o5359tjuhbo3tlpp...@4ax.com>:

Perhaps when distant people on other planets pick up
some wave-length of ours, all they hear is a
continuous scream.
--Iris Murdoch (1919-1999)
_The Message To The Planet_ [1989], Part 6

--
Steve

SteveMR200

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Jul 16, 2015, 8:34:14 AM7/16/15
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On Sun, 16 Mar 2014 17:30:00 -0700, SteveMR200 wrote in message:
<megci9p5bncs12tvq...@4ax.com>:
Telepathy transmits delicate shades of meaning quite
lost in spoken language.
--Robert Sheckley (1928-2005)
_Carrier_ [1954]

--
Steve

SteveMR200

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May 22, 2019, 10:30:43 AM5/22/19
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On Sun, 06 Oct 2013 10:00:00 -0700, SteveMR200 wrote in message:
<0o5359tjuhbo3tlpp...@4ax.com>:

Music expresses that which cannot be said and on
which it is impossible to be silent.
--Victor Hugo (1802-1885)
_William Shakespeare_ [1864];
Part 1, Book 2, Chapter 4

--
Steve

SteveMR200

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Oct 4, 2019, 8:37:40 AM10/4/19
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On Wed, 22 May 2019 07:30:00 -0800, SteveMR200 wrote in message:
<pmqaeed9or5lkt0fd...@4ax.com>:
Ideas came into my mind quite unrelated to graphic
art, notions which so fascinated me that I longed
to communicate them to other people.

This could not be achieved through words . . . but
mental images of a kind that can only be made
comprehensible to others by presenting them
as visual images.

--M. C. Escher (1898-1972)

--
Steve
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