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The life expectancy of an Atheist just got lower
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Amos
Dec 28, 2014, 6:47:06 PM12/28/14
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Governments and religious institutions in the Middle East consider atheism a threat
In Egypt and other Arab states, societies are heavily influenced by religion. Even so, many people evidently regard themselves as atheists, and both governments and religious institutions see this as a threat.
There are exactly 866 atheists living along the Nile - at least according to a recent survey by the government-run Egyptian institution "Dar al-Ifta," which keeps tabs on religious issues in the country. How exactly that number was determined is unclear, but the institution's verdict on the threat is surprising: according to Dar al-Ifta, the fact that 0.001 percent of the Egyptian population does not believe in God is a reason to sound the alarm bells. After all, no country in the Arab world apparently has a higher number of "godless" people - Morocco being the runner-up with a purported 325 atheists.
The Dar al-Ifta figures contrast sharply with a poll conducted in 2014 by the Al-Azhar University in Cairo. Having canvassed 6,000 young people, the university - which has a formidable reputation in Sunni Islam - came up with an atheist proportion of some 12.3 percent of the Egyptian population. That would amount to 10.7 million of 87 million Egyptians.
Appearing on state TV in October, the Sheikh of Al-Azhar, Ahmad al-Tayyib, warned that atheism was no longer a side issue - the conscious dissociation from any religion was, he said, a social problem. According to the Gulf News daily, the Egyptian Ministries of Youth and Religious Endowment both pledged to launch campaigns designed to combat this attitude. Moderate religious scholars, psychologists, and social scientists were to be sent out to thwart the loss of faith among the young. "Young people are alienated by militant preachers who tell them 24 hours a day that they will go to hell," Al-Azhar professor Amnah Nusair told Gulf News.
Whether they are Muslim, Christian, or Jewish, hardly anyone in the Middle East publicly renounces religion. But the number seems to have increased in the wake of the Arab Spring in 2011, and most Arab countries have seen the emergence of atheist groups with their own Facebook pages. Their numbers appear to be very small: the "Tunisian Atheists" group has about 6,900 "likes," while the "Sudanese Atheists" have almost 3,300. The "Atheist Society in Egypt" recorded 585 at the time of writing, while the "Feminist Atheists in Saudi Arabia" have all of 61.
Saudis equate atheists with terrorists
The government in Saudi Arabia, which imposes a particularly strict interpretation of Islam, seems to feel especially threatened by this attitude. In spring 2014, Saudi Arabia declared that, from a legal point of view, atheism was as dangerous as religiously motivated terrorism. But in a global survey published in 2012, the Win/Gallup International research institute determined that 19 percent of Saudi Arabians rated themselves non-practising. A further five percent categorized themselves as atheists. By comparison, according to the same survey, no atheists were recorded in Iraq, where a mere nine percent had labeled themselves non-practising.
The strong reaction to people quietly turning their backs on religion comes as a surprise in the face of the real threat posed by radicalized islamists. In Islam, sowing seeds of discord is considered a grave sin, and someone who denies God's existence can easily come under suspicion of creating dissension among the faithful. Then again, politics plays a role as well. In Egypt, the government does not want to play into the hands of the Islamist Muslim Brotherhood, which was removed from power in 2013, by failing to take action in the face of atheists. In order not to provide the Muslim Brotherhood with a target, the political leaders in Cairo portray themselves as defenders of religion.
In most Arab countries, being an atheist is not outlawed outright, but the laws against religious defamation often leave enough leeway to take action against atheists, and such cases are recorded by human and civil rights groups again and again. In December 2014, security forces in Cairo raided a café purportedly visited by atheists, with the authorities declaring that satanic rites had been practiced there. On its Facebook page, the "Atheist Society in Egypt" commented: "Even the Muslim Brotherhood didn't go this far when it was still in power."
Source: http://www.dw.de/governments-and-religious-institutions-in-the-middle-east-consider-atheism-a-threat/a-18145109?maca=en-rss-en-world-4025-rdf
In Egypt and other Arab states, societies are heavily influenced by religion. Even so, many people evidently regard themselves as atheists, and both governments and religious institutions see this as a threat.
There are exactly 866 atheists living along the Nile - at least according to a recent survey by the government-run Egyptian institution "Dar al-Ifta," which keeps tabs on religious issues in the country. How exactly that number was determined is unclear, but the institution's verdict on the threat is surprising: according to Dar al-Ifta, the fact that 0.001 percent of the Egyptian population does not believe in God is a reason to sound the alarm bells. After all, no country in the Arab world apparently has a higher number of "godless" people - Morocco being the runner-up with a purported 325 atheists.
The Dar al-Ifta figures contrast sharply with a poll conducted in 2014 by the Al-Azhar University in Cairo. Having canvassed 6,000 young people, the university - which has a formidable reputation in Sunni Islam - came up with an atheist proportion of some 12.3 percent of the Egyptian population. That would amount to 10.7 million of 87 million Egyptians.
Appearing on state TV in October, the Sheikh of Al-Azhar, Ahmad al-Tayyib, warned that atheism was no longer a side issue - the conscious dissociation from any religion was, he said, a social problem. According to the Gulf News daily, the Egyptian Ministries of Youth and Religious Endowment both pledged to launch campaigns designed to combat this attitude. Moderate religious scholars, psychologists, and social scientists were to be sent out to thwart the loss of faith among the young. "Young people are alienated by militant preachers who tell them 24 hours a day that they will go to hell," Al-Azhar professor Amnah Nusair told Gulf News.
Whether they are Muslim, Christian, or Jewish, hardly anyone in the Middle East publicly renounces religion. But the number seems to have increased in the wake of the Arab Spring in 2011, and most Arab countries have seen the emergence of atheist groups with their own Facebook pages. Their numbers appear to be very small: the "Tunisian Atheists" group has about 6,900 "likes," while the "Sudanese Atheists" have almost 3,300. The "Atheist Society in Egypt" recorded 585 at the time of writing, while the "Feminist Atheists in Saudi Arabia" have all of 61.
Saudis equate atheists with terrorists
The government in Saudi Arabia, which imposes a particularly strict interpretation of Islam, seems to feel especially threatened by this attitude. In spring 2014, Saudi Arabia declared that, from a legal point of view, atheism was as dangerous as religiously motivated terrorism. But in a global survey published in 2012, the Win/Gallup International research institute determined that 19 percent of Saudi Arabians rated themselves non-practising. A further five percent categorized themselves as atheists. By comparison, according to the same survey, no atheists were recorded in Iraq, where a mere nine percent had labeled themselves non-practising.
The strong reaction to people quietly turning their backs on religion comes as a surprise in the face of the real threat posed by radicalized islamists. In Islam, sowing seeds of discord is considered a grave sin, and someone who denies God's existence can easily come under suspicion of creating dissension among the faithful. Then again, politics plays a role as well. In Egypt, the government does not want to play into the hands of the Islamist Muslim Brotherhood, which was removed from power in 2013, by failing to take action in the face of atheists. In order not to provide the Muslim Brotherhood with a target, the political leaders in Cairo portray themselves as defenders of religion.
In most Arab countries, being an atheist is not outlawed outright, but the laws against religious defamation often leave enough leeway to take action against atheists, and such cases are recorded by human and civil rights groups again and again. In December 2014, security forces in Cairo raided a café purportedly visited by atheists, with the authorities declaring that satanic rites had been practiced there. On its Facebook page, the "Atheist Society in Egypt" commented: "Even the Muslim Brotherhood didn't go this far when it was still in power."
Source: http://www.dw.de/governments-and-religious-institutions-in-the-middle-east-consider-atheism-a-threat/a-18145109?maca=en-rss-en-world-4025-rdf
Steven Douglas
Dec 29, 2014, 12:50:31 AM12/29/14
to
its underlying foundation rather than one of those Islamic
societies?
Amos
Dec 29, 2014, 4:13:53 AM12/29/14
to
However, I am glad that I live in a society that is at least 400 years further up the evolutionary mind ladder than some other societies. Long may this evolution of mind continue!
Steven Douglas
Dec 29, 2014, 7:52:24 PM12/29/14
to
>
> However, I am glad that I live in a society that is at least 400
> years further up the evolutionary mind ladder than some other
> societies.
So the answer to my question is yes.
> However, I am glad that I live in a society that is at least 400
> years further up the evolutionary mind ladder than some other
> societies.
>
> Long may this evolution of mind continue!
Let's just hope it doesn't go the way of the old USSR, where the
> Long may this evolution of mind continue!
atheistic government murdered millions of people they didn't like.
Amos
Dec 30, 2014, 4:37:42 AM12/30/14
to
On Tuesday, 30 December 2014 00:52:24 UTC, Steven Douglas wrote:
> On Monday, December 29, 2014 1:13:53 AM UTC-8, Amos wrote:
> > On Monday, 29 December 2014 05:50:31 UTC, Steven Douglas wrote:
> >
> > > Aren't you glad you live in a society that has Christianity as
> > > its underlying foundation rather than one of those Islamic
> > > societies?
> >
> > No, 400 years ago the Christian society was was just as bad, if
> > not worse.
>
> I wasn't talking about 400 years ago, I was talking about you.
Context is important.
> On Monday, December 29, 2014 1:13:53 AM UTC-8, Amos wrote:
> > On Monday, 29 December 2014 05:50:31 UTC, Steven Douglas wrote:
> >
> > > Aren't you glad you live in a society that has Christianity as
> > > its underlying foundation rather than one of those Islamic
> > > societies?
> >
> > No, 400 years ago the Christian society was was just as bad, if
> > not worse.
>
> I wasn't talking about 400 years ago, I was talking about you.
> >
> > However, I am glad that I live in a society that is at least 400
> > years further up the evolutionary mind ladder than some other
> > societies.
>
> So the answer to my question is yes.
> >
> > Long may this evolution of mind continue!
>
> Let's just hope it doesn't go the way of the old USSR, where the
> atheistic government murdered millions of people they didn't like.
I look forward to the day when all forms of egotistical religions and ideologies are removed from the gene pool by natural selection.
Steven Douglas
Dec 30, 2014, 11:52:26 AM12/30/14
to
On Tuesday, December 30, 2014 1:37:42 AM UTC-8, Amos wrote:
> On Tuesday, 30 December 2014 00:52:24 UTC, Steven Douglas wrote:
> > On Monday, December 29, 2014 1:13:53 AM UTC-8, Amos wrote:
> > > On Monday, 29 December 2014 05:50:31 UTC, Steven Douglas wrote:
> > >
> > > > Aren't you glad you live in a society that has Christianity as
> > > > its underlying foundation rather than one of those Islamic
> > > > societies?
> > >
> > > No, 400 years ago the Christian society was was just as bad, if
> > > not worse.
> >
> > I wasn't talking about 400 years ago, I was talking about you.
>
> Context is important.
The context of my question was about the society where you live,
> On Tuesday, 30 December 2014 00:52:24 UTC, Steven Douglas wrote:
> > On Monday, December 29, 2014 1:13:53 AM UTC-8, Amos wrote:
> > > On Monday, 29 December 2014 05:50:31 UTC, Steven Douglas wrote:
> > >
> > > > Aren't you glad you live in a society that has Christianity as
> > > > its underlying foundation rather than one of those Islamic
> > > > societies?
> > >
> > > No, 400 years ago the Christian society was was just as bad, if
> > > not worse.
> >
> > I wasn't talking about 400 years ago, I was talking about you.
>
> Context is important.
but you changed the context to 400 years ago.
>
> > > However, I am glad that I live in a society that is at least 400
> > > years further up the evolutionary mind ladder than some other
> > > societies.
> >
> > So the answer to my question is yes.
>
> Incorrect. The answer to your question is no. I don't live in a
> christian society.
I understand that it's a secular society, but there is no way to
> > > However, I am glad that I live in a society that is at least 400
> > > years further up the evolutionary mind ladder than some other
> > > societies.
> >
> > So the answer to my question is yes.
>
> Incorrect. The answer to your question is no. I don't live in a
> christian society.
deny that Western societies have Christianity as an underlying
foundation.
>
> Those days are gone.
Not entirely, since we still celebrate Christmas and observe it
as a national holiday. And before you give me all the alternative
pagan names for celebrations this time of year, we still call it
Christmas in our Western societies.
>
> I live in a multicultural society where there is separation of
> church and state.
There is separation of church and state in government, but I'm
> I live in a multicultural society where there is separation of
> church and state.
talking about society -- which is different from government.
>
> I am thankful that the wickedness of religion is no longer in
> control over my country and way of life, like it is in the
> Middle East and I am thankful that we live in a democracy.
Have you acknowledged my point that in today's world, wherever the
> I am thankful that the wickedness of religion is no longer in
> control over my country and way of life, like it is in the
> Middle East and I am thankful that we live in a democracy.
Bible is observed by a society (not government, but society),
there is freedom and democracy. It's only where the Bible is not
observed by a society that you'll find dictators, tyranny, and
slavery.
>
> > > Long may this evolution of mind continue!
> >
> > Let's just hope it doesn't go the way of the old USSR, where the
> > atheistic government murdered millions of people they didn't like.
>
> Or the way of Nazi Germany, where millions of people were
> murdered for the sake of a religious ideology.
You mean they were murdered because of their religious ideology.
> > > Long may this evolution of mind continue!
> >
> > Let's just hope it doesn't go the way of the old USSR, where the
> > atheistic government murdered millions of people they didn't like.
>
> Or the way of Nazi Germany, where millions of people were
> murdered for the sake of a religious ideology.
There was nothing religious about Nazism. But if you disagree,
please tell me what part of Christian doctrine you believe the
Nazis were upholding.
Actually, it was the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem (and large parts
of the Islamic world) who sided with the Nazis during that war.
The Mufti actively helped Hitler conduct the Holocaust, and those
two made a pact that they would go to the Palestine Mandate after
they won the war and eliminate all the Jews who resided there.
Meanwhile, Christian-dominated societies fought and defeated
Hitler, and thwarted the dreams of his Islamic allies who wanted
to eliminate every Jew from the Palestine Mandate.
>
> And lets hope that we don't return to the days when religious
> nutters ruled over the western world, murdering and slaughtering
> millions of people they didn't like either.
Are you referring to the Crusades?
> And lets hope that we don't return to the days when religious
> nutters ruled over the western world, murdering and slaughtering
> millions of people they didn't like either.
>
> I look forward to the day when all forms of egotistical
> religions and ideologies are removed from the gene pool by
> natural selection.
If your dream becomes reality and the Bible is removed from
> I look forward to the day when all forms of egotistical
> religions and ideologies are removed from the gene pool by
> natural selection.
society, what will we have then? Current examples we have are a coarsening of society as religious influence is pushed into the
background. Some of the secular people who continue to post here
have a habit of wishing death on people with whom they disagree.
But the greatest example of what happens when the Bible is removed
from a society is the old USSR and its atheistic government. They
literally murdered tens of millions of their own citizens who
wanted nothing more than to be free.
Amos
Dec 30, 2014, 1:34:41 PM12/30/14
to
On Tuesday, 30 December 2014 16:52:26 UTC, Steven Douglas wrote:
> On Tuesday, December 30, 2014 1:37:42 AM UTC-8, Amos wrote:
> > On Tuesday, 30 December 2014 00:52:24 UTC, Steven Douglas wrote:
> > > On Monday, December 29, 2014 1:13:53 AM UTC-8, Amos wrote:
> > > > On Monday, 29 December 2014 05:50:31 UTC, Steven Douglas wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Aren't you glad you live in a society that has Christianity as
> > > > > its underlying foundation rather than one of those Islamic
> > > > > societies?
> > > >
> > > > No, 400 years ago the Christian society was was just as bad, if
> > > > not worse.
> > >
> > > I wasn't talking about 400 years ago, I was talking about you.
> >
> > Context is important.
>
> The context of my question was about the society where you live,
> but you changed the context to 400 years ago.
> >
> > > > However, I am glad that I live in a society that is at least 400
> > > > years further up the evolutionary mind ladder than some other
> > > > societies.
> > >
> > > So the answer to my question is yes.
> >
> > Incorrect. The answer to your question is no. I don't live in a
> > christian society.
>
> I understand that it's a secular society, but there is no way to
> deny that Western societies have Christianity as an underlying
> foundation.
>
On the contrary, the foundation of Western societies have nothing to do with Christianity. If you believe otherwise, please provide the evidence.
> On Tuesday, December 30, 2014 1:37:42 AM UTC-8, Amos wrote:
> > On Tuesday, 30 December 2014 00:52:24 UTC, Steven Douglas wrote:
> > > On Monday, December 29, 2014 1:13:53 AM UTC-8, Amos wrote:
> > > > On Monday, 29 December 2014 05:50:31 UTC, Steven Douglas wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Aren't you glad you live in a society that has Christianity as
> > > > > its underlying foundation rather than one of those Islamic
> > > > > societies?
> > > >
> > > > No, 400 years ago the Christian society was was just as bad, if
> > > > not worse.
> > >
> > > I wasn't talking about 400 years ago, I was talking about you.
> >
> > Context is important.
>
> The context of my question was about the society where you live,
> but you changed the context to 400 years ago.
> >
> > > > However, I am glad that I live in a society that is at least 400
> > > > years further up the evolutionary mind ladder than some other
> > > > societies.
> > >
> > > So the answer to my question is yes.
> >
> > Incorrect. The answer to your question is no. I don't live in a
> > christian society.
>
> I understand that it's a secular society, but there is no way to
> deny that Western societies have Christianity as an underlying
> foundation.
>
> > Those days are gone.
>
> Not entirely, since we still celebrate Christmas and observe it
> as a national holiday. And before you give me all the alternative
> pagan names for celebrations this time of year, we still call it
> Christmas in our Western societies.
> >
> > I live in a multicultural society where there is separation of
> > church and state.
>
> There is separation of church and state in government, but I'm
> talking about society -- which is different from government.
> >
> > I am thankful that the wickedness of religion is no longer in
> > control over my country and way of life, like it is in the
> > Middle East and I am thankful that we live in a democracy.
>
> Have you acknowledged my point that in today's world, wherever the
> Bible is observed by a society (not government, but society),
> there is freedom and democracy. It's only where the Bible is not
> observed by a society that you'll find dictators, tyranny, and
> slavery.
> >
> > > > Long may this evolution of mind continue!
> > >
> > > Let's just hope it doesn't go the way of the old USSR, where the
> > > atheistic government murdered millions of people they didn't like.
> >
> > Or the way of Nazi Germany, where millions of people were
> > murdered for the sake of a religious ideology.
>
> You mean they were murdered because of their religious ideology.
> There was nothing religious about Nazism. But if you disagree,
> please tell me what part of Christian doctrine you believe the
> Nazis were upholding.
The Nazis objective was to remove explicitly Jewish content from the Bible (i.e., the Old Testament, the Gospel of Matthew, and the Pauline Epistles), transforming it into there own brand of religion. They even proposed that Jesus was an Aryan, for goodness sake and many German Christian believed that Adolf Hitler was the new Messiah sent to earth to save the world from Jews. That's a religion whether you like it or not!
>
> Actually, it was the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem (and large parts
> of the Islamic world) who sided with the Nazis during that war.
> The Mufti actively helped Hitler conduct the Holocaust, and those
> two made a pact that they would go to the Palestine Mandate after
> they won the war and eliminate all the Jews who resided there.
>
> Meanwhile, Christian-dominated societies fought and defeated
> Hitler, and thwarted the dreams of his Islamic allies who wanted
> to eliminate every Jew from the Palestine Mandate.
> >
> > And lets hope that we don't return to the days when religious
> > nutters ruled over the western world, murdering and slaughtering
> > millions of people they didn't like either.
>
> Are you referring to the Crusades?
> >
> > I look forward to the day when all forms of egotistical
> > religions and ideologies are removed from the gene pool by
> > natural selection.
>
> If your dream becomes reality and the Bible is removed from
> society, what will we have then? Current examples we have are a coarsening of society as religious influence is pushed into the
> background. Some of the secular people who continue to post here
> have a habit of wishing death on people with whom they disagree.
>
> But the greatest example of what happens when the Bible is removed
> from a society is the old USSR and its atheistic government. They
> literally murdered tens of millions of their own citizens who
> wanted nothing more than to be free.
Steven Douglas
Dec 30, 2014, 4:54:48 PM12/30/14
to
big changes within your society (and greatly influenced mine) ever
since.
>
> > > Those days are gone.
> >
> > Not entirely, since we still celebrate Christmas and observe it
> > as a national holiday. And before you give me all the alternative
> > pagan names for celebrations this time of year, we still call it
> > Christmas in our Western societies.
>
> Pagan holidays hijacked by Christians. That is all it is!
> Christianity has its roots in pagan religions.
Well, no, Christianity supplanted the pagan religions. Thank God.
> > > Those days are gone.
> >
> > Not entirely, since we still celebrate Christmas and observe it
> > as a national holiday. And before you give me all the alternative
> > pagan names for celebrations this time of year, we still call it
> > Christmas in our Western societies.
>
> Pagan holidays hijacked by Christians. That is all it is!
> Christianity has its roots in pagan religions.
>
> > > I live in a multicultural society where there is separation of
> > > church and state.
> >
> > There is separation of church and state in government, but I'm
> > talking about society -- which is different from government.
>
> Eh! You referred to 'Christian society', which no longer has any
> meaning in the multicultural modern age.
But the lasting effects of its positive influence remain.
> > > I live in a multicultural society where there is separation of
> > > church and state.
> >
> > There is separation of church and state in government, but I'm
> > talking about society -- which is different from government.
>
> Eh! You referred to 'Christian society', which no longer has any
> meaning in the multicultural modern age.
>
> > > I am thankful that the wickedness of religion is no longer in
> > > control over my country and way of life, like it is in the
> > > Middle East and I am thankful that we live in a democracy.
> >
> > Have you acknowledged my point that in today's world, wherever the
> > Bible is observed by a society (not government, but society),
> > there is freedom and democracy. It's only where the Bible is not
> > observed by a society that you'll find dictators, tyranny, and
> > slavery.
>
> History has proven you wrong, I'm afraid.
I very specifically said "today's world", so your distraction of
> > > I am thankful that the wickedness of religion is no longer in
> > > control over my country and way of life, like it is in the
> > > Middle East and I am thankful that we live in a democracy.
> >
> > Have you acknowledged my point that in today's world, wherever the
> > Bible is observed by a society (not government, but society),
> > there is freedom and democracy. It's only where the Bible is not
> > observed by a society that you'll find dictators, tyranny, and
> > slavery.
>
> History has proven you wrong, I'm afraid.
bringing up history is irrelevant. I already acknowledged that
some governments down through history made mistakes with their
implementation of the Christian doctrine, but my point is NOW, in
today's world.
I know you'd like to ignore today and jump back into history. It's
what every anti-Christian person I've ever encountered does. So
why not take the statement I made and deal with that rather than
dodge it with your attempt to change the subject?
>
> The Bible has been
> used by many societies as a means to justify murder, tyranny,
> slavery, and all kinds of disgusting things.
Show me where that's happening in TODAY'S WORLD. Then let's look
> The Bible has been
> used by many societies as a means to justify murder, tyranny,
> slavery, and all kinds of disgusting things.
at an atheistic society that still exists in today's world, North
Korea. I wonder if you think they'd be a better society with or
without Christianity as the foundation of their society?
>
> > > > > Long may this evolution of mind continue!
> > > >
> > > > Let's just hope it doesn't go the way of the old USSR, where the
> > > > atheistic government murdered millions of people they didn't like.
> > >
> > > Or the way of Nazi Germany, where millions of people were
> > > murdered for the sake of a religious ideology.
> >
> > You mean they were murdered because of their religious ideology.
> > There was nothing religious about Nazism. But if you disagree,
> > please tell me what part of Christian doctrine you believe the
> > Nazis were upholding.
>
> What is your definition of a Religion?
The Nazis did not present themselves as a religion.
> > > > > Long may this evolution of mind continue!
> > > >
> > > > Let's just hope it doesn't go the way of the old USSR, where the
> > > > atheistic government murdered millions of people they didn't like.
> > >
> > > Or the way of Nazi Germany, where millions of people were
> > > murdered for the sake of a religious ideology.
> >
> > You mean they were murdered because of their religious ideology.
> > There was nothing religious about Nazism. But if you disagree,
> > please tell me what part of Christian doctrine you believe the
> > Nazis were upholding.
>
> What is your definition of a Religion?
>
> The Nazis objective was to remove explicitly Jewish content from
> the Bible (i.e., the Old Testament, the Gospel of Matthew, and
> the Pauline Epistles), transforming it into there own brand of
> religion.
All that shows is how much Hitler hated Christianity, that he
> The Nazis objective was to remove explicitly Jewish content from
> the Bible (i.e., the Old Testament, the Gospel of Matthew, and
> the Pauline Epistles), transforming it into there own brand of
> religion.
tried to change it into something other than what it is.
>
> They even proposed that Jesus was an Aryan, for goodness sake
> and many German Christian believed that Adolf Hitler was the new
> Messiah sent to earth to save the world from Jews. That's a
> religion whether you like it or not!
Not any religion I'm familiar with. My question to you was which
> They even proposed that Jesus was an Aryan, for goodness sake
> and many German Christian believed that Adolf Hitler was the new
> Messiah sent to earth to save the world from Jews. That's a
> religion whether you like it or not!
part of Christian doctrine you think the Nazis were upholding.
What you've given me is that they not only did NOT uphold the
Christian doctrine, they tried to change it into something
entirely different.
>
> > Actually, it was the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem (and large parts
> > of the Islamic world) who sided with the Nazis during that war.
> > The Mufti actively helped Hitler conduct the Holocaust, and those
> > two made a pact that they would go to the Palestine Mandate after
> > they won the war and eliminate all the Jews who resided there.
>
> You're cherry picking! If you are going to use religion to
> describe a society then you should mention the fact that Germany
> & Italy (the major players of the Holocaust) were christian
> societies.
But they were taken over by dictators who tried to shove Christian
> > Actually, it was the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem (and large parts
> > of the Islamic world) who sided with the Nazis during that war.
> > The Mufti actively helped Hitler conduct the Holocaust, and those
> > two made a pact that they would go to the Palestine Mandate after
> > they won the war and eliminate all the Jews who resided there.
>
> You're cherry picking! If you are going to use religion to
> describe a society then you should mention the fact that Germany
> & Italy (the major players of the Holocaust) were christian
> societies.
doctrine aside, as you noted so eloquently above.
>
> > Meanwhile, Christian-dominated societies fought and defeated
> > Hitler, and thwarted the dreams of his Islamic allies who wanted
> > to eliminate every Jew from the Palestine Mandate.
> > >
> > > And lets hope that we don't return to the days when religious
> > > nutters ruled over the western world, murdering and slaughtering
> > > millions of people they didn't like either.
> >
> > Are you referring to the Crusades?
>
> Yes all religious wars.
The Crusades began as a response to four centuries of Islamic Wars
> > Meanwhile, Christian-dominated societies fought and defeated
> > Hitler, and thwarted the dreams of his Islamic allies who wanted
> > to eliminate every Jew from the Palestine Mandate.
> > >
> > > And lets hope that we don't return to the days when religious
> > > nutters ruled over the western world, murdering and slaughtering
> > > millions of people they didn't like either.
> >
> > Are you referring to the Crusades?
>
> Yes all religious wars.
of Conquest. I realize everyone thinks nothing happened before the
Crusades, but that's just not the case.
>
> But even worse was the Wars of Religion
> in 16/17th century Europe, which claimed 15.5 million lives.
Europeans seem to have had a lot of wars down through the years,
> But even worse was the Wars of Religion
> in 16/17th century Europe, which claimed 15.5 million lives.
including the 20th century with wars having nothing to do with
religion that killed many millions more.
It is a shame that so many of those historical people did not
abide by the Christian doctrine. Thank God we don't live in those
times, but we live in a time when the Christian doctrine is now
followed correctly, and everywhere it's followed now we have
freedom and democracy.
But let's not forget the atheists of the USSR and other nations,
which murdered about 100 million of their own citizens in just
the 20th century alone.
>
> > > I look forward to the day when all forms of egotistical
> > > religions and ideologies are removed from the gene pool by
> > > natural selection.
> >
> > If your dream becomes reality and the Bible is removed from
> > society, what will we have then? Current examples we have are a coarsening of society as religious influence is pushed into the
> > background. Some of the secular people who continue to post here
> > have a habit of wishing death on people with whom they disagree.
>
> I never said anything about removing the Bible from society.
No, you're just trying to diminish its importance by comparing it
> > > I look forward to the day when all forms of egotistical
> > > religions and ideologies are removed from the gene pool by
> > > natural selection.
> >
> > If your dream becomes reality and the Bible is removed from
> > society, what will we have then? Current examples we have are a coarsening of society as religious influence is pushed into the
> > background. Some of the secular people who continue to post here
> > have a habit of wishing death on people with whom they disagree.
>
> I never said anything about removing the Bible from society.
to nursery rhymes.
>
> Reading the texts literally as if they represented the word of
> God has been the cause of countless wars and suffering in the
> world. It's time people understood what it was really meant for.
There is nothing in the Bible that justifies the countless wars
> Reading the texts literally as if they represented the word of
> God has been the cause of countless wars and suffering in the
> world. It's time people understood what it was really meant for.
and suffering you mentioned. Those wars would have probably
happened anyway, as Europeans have shown an historical tendency
to go to war with each other quite often -- right up to, and
including the Bosnia and Kosovo wars. I wonder where in Europe
war will break out next?
>
> > But the greatest example of what happens when the Bible is removed
> > from a society is the old USSR and its atheistic government. They
> > literally murdered tens of millions of their own citizens who
> > wanted nothing more than to be free.
>
> No one is advocating any forceful removal of the Bible or any
> other religious text.
The atheistic communists sure did. And they killed anyone who
> > But the greatest example of what happens when the Bible is removed
> > from a society is the old USSR and its atheistic government. They
> > literally murdered tens of millions of their own citizens who
> > wanted nothing more than to be free.
>
> No one is advocating any forceful removal of the Bible or any
> other religious text.
didn't like it (many millions of them).
>
> The old USSR was based on a egotistical political ideology,
> which was atheistic in essence, lacking any form of humanistic
> ideals.
They thought they were being humanistic with their "from each
> The old USSR was based on a egotistical political ideology,
> which was atheistic in essence, lacking any form of humanistic
> ideals.
according to his ability, to each according to his need"
philosophy.
>
> One just needs to evolve and turn the mental key in the
> lock and see the Bible for what it is.
The one thing in common, wherever there is freedom and democracy
> One just needs to evolve and turn the mental key in the
> lock and see the Bible for what it is.
in today's world, is the Bible.
Amos
Dec 31, 2014, 11:23:17 AM12/31/14
to
> >
> > > > Those days are gone.
> > >
> > > Not entirely, since we still celebrate Christmas and observe it
> > > as a national holiday. And before you give me all the alternative
> > > pagan names for celebrations this time of year, we still call it
> > > Christmas in our Western societies.
> >
> > Pagan holidays hijacked by Christians. That is all it is!
> > Christianity has its roots in pagan religions.
>
> Well, no, Christianity supplanted the pagan religions. Thank God.
> >
> > > > I live in a multicultural society where there is separation of
> > > > church and state.
> > >
> > > There is separation of church and state in government, but I'm
> > > talking about society -- which is different from government.
> >
> > Eh! You referred to 'Christian society', which no longer has any
> > meaning in the multicultural modern age.
>
> But the lasting effects of its positive influence remain.
> >
> > > > I am thankful that the wickedness of religion is no longer in
> > > > control over my country and way of life, like it is in the
> > > > Middle East and I am thankful that we live in a democracy.
> > >
> > > Have you acknowledged my point that in today's world, wherever the
> > > Bible is observed by a society (not government, but society),
> > > there is freedom and democracy. It's only where the Bible is not
> > > observed by a society that you'll find dictators, tyranny, and
> > > slavery.
> >
> > History has proven you wrong, I'm afraid.
>
> I very specifically said "today's world", so your distraction of
> bringing up history is irrelevant. I already acknowledged that
> some governments down through history made mistakes with their
> implementation of the Christian doctrine, but my point is NOW, in
> today's world.
>
> I know you'd like to ignore today and jump back into history. It's
> what every anti-Christian person I've ever encountered does. So
> why not take the statement I made and deal with that rather than
> dodge it with your attempt to change the subject?
> >
> > The Bible has been
> > used by many societies as a means to justify murder, tyranny,
> > slavery, and all kinds of disgusting things.
>
> Show me where that's happening in TODAY'S WORLD. Then let's look
> at an atheistic society that still exists in today's world, North
> Korea. I wonder if you think they'd be a better society with or
> without Christianity as the foundation of their society?
> >
> > > > > > Long may this evolution of mind continue!
> > > > >
> > > > > Let's just hope it doesn't go the way of the old USSR, where the
> > > > > atheistic government murdered millions of people they didn't like.
> > > >
> > > > Or the way of Nazi Germany, where millions of people were
> > > > murdered for the sake of a religious ideology.
> > >
> > > You mean they were murdered because of their religious ideology.
> > > There was nothing religious about Nazism. But if you disagree,
> > > please tell me what part of Christian doctrine you believe the
> > > Nazis were upholding.
> >
> > What is your definition of a Religion?
>
> The Nazis did not present themselves as a religion.
> >
> > The Nazis objective was to remove explicitly Jewish content from
> > the Bible (i.e., the Old Testament, the Gospel of Matthew, and
> > the Pauline Epistles), transforming it into there own brand of
> > religion.
>
> All that shows is how much Hitler hated Christianity, that he
> tried to change it into something other than what it is.
> >
> > They even proposed that Jesus was an Aryan, for goodness sake
> > and many German Christian believed that Adolf Hitler was the new
> > Messiah sent to earth to save the world from Jews. That's a
> > religion whether you like it or not!
>
> Not any religion I'm familiar with. My question to you was which
> part of Christian doctrine you think the Nazis were upholding.
> What you've given me is that they not only did NOT uphold the
> Christian doctrine, they tried to change it into something
> entirely different.
> >
> > > Actually, it was the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem (and large parts
> > > of the Islamic world) who sided with the Nazis during that war.
> > > The Mufti actively helped Hitler conduct the Holocaust, and those
> > > two made a pact that they would go to the Palestine Mandate after
> > > they won the war and eliminate all the Jews who resided there.
> >
> > You're cherry picking! If you are going to use religion to
> > describe a society then you should mention the fact that Germany
> > & Italy (the major players of the Holocaust) were christian
> > societies.
>
> But they were taken over by dictators who tried to shove Christian
> doctrine aside, as you noted so eloquently above.
> >
> > > Meanwhile, Christian-dominated societies fought and defeated
> > > Hitler, and thwarted the dreams of his Islamic allies who wanted
> > > to eliminate every Jew from the Palestine Mandate.
> > > >
> > > > And lets hope that we don't return to the days when religious
> > > > nutters ruled over the western world, murdering and slaughtering
> > > > millions of people they didn't like either.
> > >
> > > Are you referring to the Crusades?
> >
> > Yes all religious wars.
>
> The Crusades began as a response to four centuries of Islamic Wars
> of Conquest. I realize everyone thinks nothing happened before the
> Crusades, but that's just not the case.
> >
> > But even worse was the Wars of Religion
> > in 16/17th century Europe, which claimed 15.5 million lives.
>
> Europeans seem to have had a lot of wars down through the years,
> including the 20th century with wars having nothing to do with
> religion that killed many millions more.
>
> It is a shame that so many of those historical people did not
> abide by the Christian doctrine. Thank God we don't live in those
> times, but we live in a time when the Christian doctrine is now
> followed correctly, and everywhere it's followed now we have
> freedom and democracy.
>
> But let's not forget the atheists of the USSR and other nations,
> which murdered about 100 million of their own citizens in just
> the 20th century alone.
> >
> > > > I look forward to the day when all forms of egotistical
> > > > religions and ideologies are removed from the gene pool by
> > > > natural selection.
> > >
> > > If your dream becomes reality and the Bible is removed from
> > > society, what will we have then? Current examples we have are a coarsening of society as religious influence is pushed into the
> > > background. Some of the secular people who continue to post here
> > > have a habit of wishing death on people with whom they disagree.
> >
> > I never said anything about removing the Bible from society.
>
> No, you're just trying to diminish its importance by comparing it
> to nursery rhymes.
> >
> > Reading the texts literally as if they represented the word of
> > God has been the cause of countless wars and suffering in the
> > world. It's time people understood what it was really meant for.
>
> There is nothing in the Bible that justifies the countless wars
> and suffering you mentioned. Those wars would have probably
> happened anyway, as Europeans have shown an historical tendency
> to go to war with each other quite often -- right up to, and
> including the Bosnia and Kosovo wars. I wonder where in Europe
> war will break out next?
> >
> > > But the greatest example of what happens when the Bible is removed
> > > from a society is the old USSR and its atheistic government. They
> > > literally murdered tens of millions of their own citizens who
> > > wanted nothing more than to be free.
> >
> > No one is advocating any forceful removal of the Bible or any
> > other religious text.
>
> The atheistic communists sure did. And they killed anyone who
> didn't like it (many millions of them).
> >
> > The old USSR was based on a egotistical political ideology,
> > which was atheistic in essence, lacking any form of humanistic
> > ideals.
>
> They thought they were being humanistic with their "from each
> according to his ability, to each according to his need"
> philosophy.
> >
> > One just needs to evolve and turn the mental key in the
> > lock and see the Bible for what it is.
>
> The one thing in common, wherever there is freedom and democracy
> in today's world, is the Bible.
angelofdeath
Dec 31, 2014, 8:24:13 PM12/31/14
to
God because it is tacitly accepted among its most ardent believers that
God cannot exist as a viable belief system without it.
God needs all the bloody support it can get.
:))~
Steven Douglas
Jan 1, 2015, 12:57:22 AM1/1/15
to
once. It was certainly not put into effect by atheists.
>
> > > > > Those days are gone.
> > > >
> > > > Not entirely, since we still celebrate Christmas and observe it
> > > > as a national holiday. And before you give me all the alternative
> > > > pagan names for celebrations this time of year, we still call it
> > > > Christmas in our Western societies.
> > >
> > > Pagan holidays hijacked by Christians. That is all it is!
> > > Christianity has its roots in pagan religions.
> >
> > Well, no, Christianity supplanted the pagan religions. Thank God.
>
> Christianity is just a pagan religion in disguise.
Pagans believe in the same God that Christians do?
> > > > > Those days are gone.
> > > >
> > > > Not entirely, since we still celebrate Christmas and observe it
> > > > as a national holiday. And before you give me all the alternative
> > > > pagan names for celebrations this time of year, we still call it
> > > > Christmas in our Western societies.
> > >
> > > Pagan holidays hijacked by Christians. That is all it is!
> > > Christianity has its roots in pagan religions.
> >
> > Well, no, Christianity supplanted the pagan religions. Thank God.
>
> Christianity is just a pagan religion in disguise.
>
> You have no idea!
Then why don't you explain it to me.
>
> > > > > I live in a multicultural society where there is separation of
> > > > > church and state.
> > > >
> > > > There is separation of church and state in government, but I'm
> > > > talking about society -- which is different from government.
> > >
> > > Eh! You referred to 'Christian society', which no longer has any
> > > meaning in the multicultural modern age.
> >
> > But the lasting effects of its positive influence remain.
>
> I agree. It's lasting influence on society are on the wane,
> which is positive.
Which part of Christian doctrine do you think society is better without?
> > > > > I live in a multicultural society where there is separation of
> > > > > church and state.
> > > >
> > > > There is separation of church and state in government, but I'm
> > > > talking about society -- which is different from government.
> > >
> > > Eh! You referred to 'Christian society', which no longer has any
> > > meaning in the multicultural modern age.
> >
> > But the lasting effects of its positive influence remain.
>
> I agree. It's lasting influence on society are on the wane,
> which is positive.
>
> > > > > I am thankful that the wickedness of religion is no longer in
> > > > > control over my country and way of life, like it is in the
> > > > > Middle East and I am thankful that we live in a democracy.
> > > >
> > > > Have you acknowledged my point that in today's world, wherever the
> > > > Bible is observed by a society (not government, but society),
> > > > there is freedom and democracy. It's only where the Bible is not
> > > > observed by a society that you'll find dictators, tyranny, and
> > > > slavery.
> > >
> > > History has proven you wrong, I'm afraid.
> >
> > I very specifically said "today's world", so your distraction of
> > bringing up history is irrelevant. I already acknowledged that
> > some governments down through history made mistakes with their
> > implementation of the Christian doctrine, but my point is NOW, in
> > today's world.
>
> What you said is irrelevant, since I was making the comparison
> through history
Yes, I know you were trying to distract from my point. That
> > > > > I am thankful that the wickedness of religion is no longer in
> > > > > control over my country and way of life, like it is in the
> > > > > Middle East and I am thankful that we live in a democracy.
> > > >
> > > > Have you acknowledged my point that in today's world, wherever the
> > > > Bible is observed by a society (not government, but society),
> > > > there is freedom and democracy. It's only where the Bible is not
> > > > observed by a society that you'll find dictators, tyranny, and
> > > > slavery.
> > >
> > > History has proven you wrong, I'm afraid.
> >
> > I very specifically said "today's world", so your distraction of
> > bringing up history is irrelevant. I already acknowledged that
> > some governments down through history made mistakes with their
> > implementation of the Christian doctrine, but my point is NOW, in
> > today's world.
>
> What you said is irrelevant, since I was making the comparison
> through history
doesn't make my point irrelevant, it just means you distracted
from it.
>
> > I know you'd like to ignore today and jump back into history. It's
> > what every anti-Christian person I've ever encountered does. So
> > why not take the statement I made and deal with that rather than
> > dodge it with your attempt to change the subject?
>
> I don't ignore today. History is the only measuring stick to use
> when making proper comparisons.
I wasn't making a comparison. What I said was only about the Bible
> > I know you'd like to ignore today and jump back into history. It's
> > what every anti-Christian person I've ever encountered does. So
> > why not take the statement I made and deal with that rather than
> > dodge it with your attempt to change the subject?
>
> I don't ignore today. History is the only measuring stick to use
> when making proper comparisons.
in today's world. I correctly noted that in today's world,
wherever the Bible is observed by a society you'll find freedom
and democracy. And where there are dictators, tyranny, and
slavery, you'll find the Bible is not observed by those societies.
>
> > > The Bible has been
> > > used by many societies as a means to justify murder, tyranny,
> > > slavery, and all kinds of disgusting things.
> >
> > Show me where that's happening in TODAY'S WORLD. Then let's look
> > at an atheistic society that still exists in today's world, North
> > Korea. I wonder if you think they'd be a better society with or
> > without Christianity as the foundation of their society?
>
> I see humanism as the foundation of our society, not
> Christianity.
Show me where in history humanism was the dominant thinking in
> > > The Bible has been
> > > used by many societies as a means to justify murder, tyranny,
> > > slavery, and all kinds of disgusting things.
> >
> > Show me where that's happening in TODAY'S WORLD. Then let's look
> > at an atheistic society that still exists in today's world, North
> > Korea. I wonder if you think they'd be a better society with or
> > without Christianity as the foundation of their society?
>
> I see humanism as the foundation of our society, not
> Christianity.
your country. You can't apply humanism to the Magna Carta since
the Magna Carta acknowledges God.
>
> > > > > > > Long may this evolution of mind continue!
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Let's just hope it doesn't go the way of the old USSR, where the
> > > > > > atheistic government murdered millions of people they didn't like.
> > > > >
> > > > > Or the way of Nazi Germany, where millions of people were
> > > > > murdered for the sake of a religious ideology.
> > > >
> > > > You mean they were murdered because of their religious ideology.
> > > > There was nothing religious about Nazism. But if you disagree,
> > > > please tell me what part of Christian doctrine you believe the
> > > > Nazis were upholding.
> > >
> > > What is your definition of a Religion?
> >
> > The Nazis did not present themselves as a religion.
> > >
> > > The Nazis objective was to remove explicitly Jewish content from
> > > the Bible (i.e., the Old Testament, the Gospel of Matthew, and
> > > the Pauline Epistles), transforming it into there own brand of
> > > religion.
> >
> > All that shows is how much Hitler hated Christianity, that he
> > tried to change it into something other than what it is.
>
> It shows that Hitler's ideals were influenced by religion.
Maybe by his own twisted version of religion, which had no
> > > > > > > Long may this evolution of mind continue!
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Let's just hope it doesn't go the way of the old USSR, where the
> > > > > > atheistic government murdered millions of people they didn't like.
> > > > >
> > > > > Or the way of Nazi Germany, where millions of people were
> > > > > murdered for the sake of a religious ideology.
> > > >
> > > > You mean they were murdered because of their religious ideology.
> > > > There was nothing religious about Nazism. But if you disagree,
> > > > please tell me what part of Christian doctrine you believe the
> > > > Nazis were upholding.
> > >
> > > What is your definition of a Religion?
> >
> > The Nazis did not present themselves as a religion.
> > >
> > > The Nazis objective was to remove explicitly Jewish content from
> > > the Bible (i.e., the Old Testament, the Gospel of Matthew, and
> > > the Pauline Epistles), transforming it into there own brand of
> > > religion.
> >
> > All that shows is how much Hitler hated Christianity, that he
> > tried to change it into something other than what it is.
>
> It shows that Hitler's ideals were influenced by religion.
resemblance to any real religion. He wanted to change Christianity
because so many people living under his dictatorship were
Christians. He failed.
>
> > > They even proposed that Jesus was an Aryan, for goodness sake
> > > and many German Christian believed that Adolf Hitler was the new
> > > Messiah sent to earth to save the world from Jews. That's a
> > > religion whether you like it or not!
> >
> > Not any religion I'm familiar with. My question to you was which
> > part of Christian doctrine you think the Nazis were upholding.
> > What you've given me is that they not only did NOT uphold the
> > Christian doctrine, they tried to change it into something
> > entirely different.
>
> Let's keep it simple for you. The Nazis were influenced by your
> religious scriptures, regardless of whether they upheld a
> particular doctrine.
That's a contradiction in terms. They upheld NO part of Christian
> > > They even proposed that Jesus was an Aryan, for goodness sake
> > > and many German Christian believed that Adolf Hitler was the new
> > > Messiah sent to earth to save the world from Jews. That's a
> > > religion whether you like it or not!
> >
> > Not any religion I'm familiar with. My question to you was which
> > part of Christian doctrine you think the Nazis were upholding.
> > What you've given me is that they not only did NOT uphold the
> > Christian doctrine, they tried to change it into something
> > entirely different.
>
> Let's keep it simple for you. The Nazis were influenced by your
> religious scriptures, regardless of whether they upheld a
> particular doctrine.
doctrine, so how could they be influenced by it? If they'd truly
been influenced by Christianity, they would not have done what
they did.
>
> > > > Actually, it was the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem (and large parts
> > > > of the Islamic world) who sided with the Nazis during that war.
> > > > The Mufti actively helped Hitler conduct the Holocaust, and those
> > > > two made a pact that they would go to the Palestine Mandate after
> > > > they won the war and eliminate all the Jews who resided there.
> > >
> > > You're cherry picking! If you are going to use religion to
> > > describe a society then you should mention the fact that Germany
> > > & Italy (the major players of the Holocaust) were christian
> > > societies.
> >
> > But they were taken over by dictators who tried to shove Christian
> > doctrine aside, as you noted so eloquently above.
>
> Christianity had the capacity to stop Nazism before it came to
> power, and to moderate its practices afterwards, but repeatedly
> failed to do so because the principal churches were complicit
> with--indeed, in the pay of--the Nazis.
Which principal churches? How do you figure any church leader
> > > > Actually, it was the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem (and large parts
> > > > of the Islamic world) who sided with the Nazis during that war.
> > > > The Mufti actively helped Hitler conduct the Holocaust, and those
> > > > two made a pact that they would go to the Palestine Mandate after
> > > > they won the war and eliminate all the Jews who resided there.
> > >
> > > You're cherry picking! If you are going to use religion to
> > > describe a society then you should mention the fact that Germany
> > > & Italy (the major players of the Holocaust) were christian
> > > societies.
> >
> > But they were taken over by dictators who tried to shove Christian
> > doctrine aside, as you noted so eloquently above.
>
> Christianity had the capacity to stop Nazism before it came to
> power, and to moderate its practices afterwards, but repeatedly
> failed to do so because the principal churches were complicit
> with--indeed, in the pay of--the Nazis.
could have stopped Nazism? They'd have been killed if they tried,
and I'm sure that happened to some who did try.
>
> > > > Meanwhile, Christian-dominated societies fought and defeated
> > > > Hitler, and thwarted the dreams of his Islamic allies who wanted
> > > > to eliminate every Jew from the Palestine Mandate.
> > > > >
> > > > > And lets hope that we don't return to the days when religious
> > > > > nutters ruled over the western world, murdering and slaughtering
> > > > > millions of people they didn't like either.
> > > >
> > > > Are you referring to the Crusades?
> > >
> > > Yes all religious wars.
> >
> > The Crusades began as a response to four centuries of Islamic Wars
> > of Conquest. I realize everyone thinks nothing happened before the
> > Crusades, but that's just not the case.
> > >
> > > But even worse was the Wars of Religion
> > > in 16/17th century Europe, which claimed 15.5 million lives.
> >
> > Europeans seem to have had a lot of wars down through the years,
> > including the 20th century with wars having nothing to do with
> > religion that killed many millions more.
>
> Religion had much to do with the rise of Hitler than you care to
> accept.
Then explain it to me.
> > > > Meanwhile, Christian-dominated societies fought and defeated
> > > > Hitler, and thwarted the dreams of his Islamic allies who wanted
> > > > to eliminate every Jew from the Palestine Mandate.
> > > > >
> > > > > And lets hope that we don't return to the days when religious
> > > > > nutters ruled over the western world, murdering and slaughtering
> > > > > millions of people they didn't like either.
> > > >
> > > > Are you referring to the Crusades?
> > >
> > > Yes all religious wars.
> >
> > The Crusades began as a response to four centuries of Islamic Wars
> > of Conquest. I realize everyone thinks nothing happened before the
> > Crusades, but that's just not the case.
> > >
> > > But even worse was the Wars of Religion
> > > in 16/17th century Europe, which claimed 15.5 million lives.
> >
> > Europeans seem to have had a lot of wars down through the years,
> > including the 20th century with wars having nothing to do with
> > religion that killed many millions more.
>
> Religion had much to do with the rise of Hitler than you care to
> accept.
>
> > It is a shame that so many of those historical people did not
> > abide by the Christian doctrine. Thank God we don't live in those
> > times, but we live in a time when the Christian doctrine is now
> > followed correctly, and everywhere it's followed now we have
> > freedom and democracy.
>
> Humanism is providing the freedom and democracy of today, not
> Christian doctrine.
So you really do believe humanists gave us the Magna Carta?
> > It is a shame that so many of those historical people did not
> > abide by the Christian doctrine. Thank God we don't live in those
> > times, but we live in a time when the Christian doctrine is now
> > followed correctly, and everywhere it's followed now we have
> > freedom and democracy.
>
> Humanism is providing the freedom and democracy of today, not
> Christian doctrine.
>
> > But let's not forget the atheists of the USSR and other nations,
> > which murdered about 100 million of their own citizens in just
> > the 20th century alone.
>
> I don't condone the murder of anyone on behalf of an political
> or religious inclined ideology or belief system. Yet, you keep
> bringing that up as if it was meant to exonerate all the
> Christian evils of the past.
I keep bringing that up to show you what happens when religion
> > But let's not forget the atheists of the USSR and other nations,
> > which murdered about 100 million of their own citizens in just
> > the 20th century alone.
>
> I don't condone the murder of anyone on behalf of an political
> or religious inclined ideology or belief system. Yet, you keep
> bringing that up as if it was meant to exonerate all the
> Christian evils of the past.
is shoved aside by a humanistic government.
>
> > > > > I look forward to the day when all forms of egotistical
> > > > > religions and ideologies are removed from the gene pool by
> > > > > natural selection.
> > > >
> > > > If your dream becomes reality and the Bible is removed from
> > > > society, what will we have then? Current examples we have are a coarsening of society as religious influence is pushed into the
> > > > background. Some of the secular people who continue to post here
> > > > have a habit of wishing death on people with whom they disagree.
> > >
> > > I never said anything about removing the Bible from society.
> >
> > No, you're just trying to diminish its importance by comparing it
> > to nursery rhymes.
>
> I'm not diminishing its importance.
Yes, I know, but you're certainly trying.
> > > > > I look forward to the day when all forms of egotistical
> > > > > religions and ideologies are removed from the gene pool by
> > > > > natural selection.
> > > >
> > > > If your dream becomes reality and the Bible is removed from
> > > > society, what will we have then? Current examples we have are a coarsening of society as religious influence is pushed into the
> > > > background. Some of the secular people who continue to post here
> > > > have a habit of wishing death on people with whom they disagree.
> > >
> > > I never said anything about removing the Bible from society.
> >
> > No, you're just trying to diminish its importance by comparing it
> > to nursery rhymes.
>
> I'm not diminishing its importance.
>
> I'm enhancing its value as a non-historical text.
In your opinion.
> I'm enhancing its value as a non-historical text.
>
> > > Reading the texts literally as if they represented the word of
> > > God has been the cause of countless wars and suffering in the
> > > world. It's time people understood what it was really meant for.
> >
> > There is nothing in the Bible that justifies the countless wars
> > and suffering you mentioned. Those wars would have probably
> > happened anyway, as Europeans have shown an historical tendency
> > to go to war with each other quite often -- right up to, and
> > including the Bosnia and Kosovo wars. I wonder where in Europe
> > war will break out next?
>
> Who knows! But you can be sure that a religious ideology of some
> sort will be behind it.
What religious ideology was behind World Wars One and Two?
> > > Reading the texts literally as if they represented the word of
> > > God has been the cause of countless wars and suffering in the
> > > world. It's time people understood what it was really meant for.
> >
> > There is nothing in the Bible that justifies the countless wars
> > and suffering you mentioned. Those wars would have probably
> > happened anyway, as Europeans have shown an historical tendency
> > to go to war with each other quite often -- right up to, and
> > including the Bosnia and Kosovo wars. I wonder where in Europe
> > war will break out next?
>
> Who knows! But you can be sure that a religious ideology of some
> sort will be behind it.
>
> > > > But the greatest example of what happens when the Bible is removed
> > > > from a society is the old USSR and its atheistic government. They
> > > > literally murdered tens of millions of their own citizens who
> > > > wanted nothing more than to be free.
> > >
> > > No one is advocating any forceful removal of the Bible or any
> > > other religious text.
> >
> > The atheistic communists sure did. And they killed anyone who
> > didn't like it (many millions of them).
>
> So you keep saying. Yawnzzz...
I'll keep saying it forever, because more people died at the hands
> > > > But the greatest example of what happens when the Bible is removed
> > > > from a society is the old USSR and its atheistic government. They
> > > > literally murdered tens of millions of their own citizens who
> > > > wanted nothing more than to be free.
> > >
> > > No one is advocating any forceful removal of the Bible or any
> > > other religious text.
> >
> > The atheistic communists sure did. And they killed anyone who
> > didn't like it (many millions of them).
>
> So you keep saying. Yawnzzz...
of humanistic communists during the 20th century alone than in all
the religious wars of history combined.
>
> > > The old USSR was based on a egotistical political ideology,
> > > which was atheistic in essence, lacking any form of humanistic
> > > ideals.
> >
> > They thought they were being humanistic with their "from each
> > according to his ability, to each according to his need"
> > philosophy.
>
> Rubbish, you just made that up. Humanism had nothing to do with
> it.
Karl Marx was a humanist.
> > > The old USSR was based on a egotistical political ideology,
> > > which was atheistic in essence, lacking any form of humanistic
> > > ideals.
> >
> > They thought they were being humanistic with their "from each
> > according to his ability, to each according to his need"
> > philosophy.
>
> Rubbish, you just made that up. Humanism had nothing to do with
> it.
>
> > > One just needs to evolve and turn the mental key in the
> > > lock and see the Bible for what it is.
> >
> > The one thing in common, wherever there is freedom and democracy
> > in today's world, is the Bible.
>
> I disagree.
Then give me an example, in today's world, of a society that
> > > One just needs to evolve and turn the mental key in the
> > > lock and see the Bible for what it is.
> >
> > The one thing in common, wherever there is freedom and democracy
> > in today's world, is the Bible.
>
> I disagree.
observes the Bible and has a dictator, tyranny, and/or slavery.
Steven Douglas
Jan 1, 2015, 12:59:00 AM1/1/15
to
On Wednesday, December 31, 2014 5:24:13 PM UTC-8, angelofdeath wrote:
>
> Huge amounts of human blood need to be continually spilled in defense of
> God because it is tacitly accepted among its most ardent believers that
> God cannot exist as a viable belief system without it.
You're speaking of Islam, of course.
>
> Huge amounts of human blood need to be continually spilled in defense of
> God because it is tacitly accepted among its most ardent believers that
> God cannot exist as a viable belief system without it.
>
> God needs all the bloody support it can get.
That's exactly how Islamic fundamentalist terrorists think.
> God needs all the bloody support it can get.
manfromu.f.o
Jan 1, 2015, 6:16:04 PM1/1/15
to
bloodiest war in human history to defend their faith. The biblical
prophecies are interpreted widely to expect such a global bloody
confrontation and to have Christianity triumph with huge piles of dead
"evil" Arab Muslims (Slavs, Asians, Africans and all others similarly
aligned) in its apocalyptic wake. The Muslim Arabs will align with the
Antichrist - that is what Christians fervently believe the prophecies
foretell.
The current smaller wars against Arab Muslims are the warm-up
bloodletting to Armageddon. It is being touted as evidence that the
prophecies are being fulfilled.
When or if such a great war manifests, it is likely you will simply be
another voice of fear, hatred, and self-righteousness that will
rationalize and support the bloodiest human clash of all time.
You and your Christians will pray to your god for victory over evil, and
you'll all be most pleased - if prophecy interpretations play out
accurately as expected - that Jesus will reign over all peoples of the
earth as the true representative of your god. And for a millennium in fact.
I can't picture a greater expectation of spilling massive blood to
eliminate others' religions' prophesied coming representatives of god,
regarded as counterfeit, dispose of their "inferior" religions, than
what the bible is widely believed by Christians to predict as an
unchangeable course to a disastrously future mass carnage.
As I said, God needs all the bloody support it can get. And it has had
no trouble getting it for millennia and will likely have no recruitment
shortages to come.
:))~
Steven Douglas
Jan 2, 2015, 3:22:23 PM1/2/15
to
On Thursday, January 1, 2015 3:16:04 PM UTC-8, manfromu.f.o wrote:
> On 12/31/2014 9:58 PM, Steven Douglas wrote:
> > On Wednesday, December 31, 2014 5:24:13 PM UTC-8, angelofdeath wrote:
> >>
> >> Huge amounts of human blood need to be continually spilled in defense of
> >> God because it is tacitly accepted among its most ardent believers that
> >> God cannot exist as a viable belief system without it.
> >
> > You're speaking of Islam, of course.
> >>
> >> God needs all the bloody support it can get.
> >
> > That's exactly how Islamic fundamentalist terrorists think.
>
> Christian fundamentalists have been preparing to fight the worst and
> bloodiest war in human history to defend their faith.
First of all, according to the prophecy it's the Jews who will be
> On 12/31/2014 9:58 PM, Steven Douglas wrote:
> > On Wednesday, December 31, 2014 5:24:13 PM UTC-8, angelofdeath wrote:
> >>
> >> Huge amounts of human blood need to be continually spilled in defense of
> >> God because it is tacitly accepted among its most ardent believers that
> >> God cannot exist as a viable belief system without it.
> >
> > You're speaking of Islam, of course.
> >>
> >> God needs all the bloody support it can get.
> >
> > That's exactly how Islamic fundamentalist terrorists think.
>
> Christian fundamentalists have been preparing to fight the worst and
> bloodiest war in human history to defend their faith.
forced to defend themselves. It's the people you like who will be
doing the attacking, and it's the people you don't like who will
be doing the defending.
>
> The biblical
> prophecies are interpreted widely to expect such a global bloody
> confrontation and to have Christianity triumph with huge piles of dead
> "evil" Arab Muslims (Slavs, Asians, Africans and all others similarly
> aligned) in its apocalyptic wake.
The confrontation will be initiated by the people you like. So
> The biblical
> prophecies are interpreted widely to expect such a global bloody
> confrontation and to have Christianity triumph with huge piles of dead
> "evil" Arab Muslims (Slavs, Asians, Africans and all others similarly
> aligned) in its apocalyptic wake.
what is your point? That you wish the prophecy foretold a
different outcome, so that the people who will be attacking Israel
should be the victors?
>
> The Muslim Arabs will align with the
> Antichrist - that is what Christians fervently believe the prophecies
> foretell.
Why are you sure it's only Muslim Arabs, and not other Muslims as
> The Muslim Arabs will align with the
> Antichrist - that is what Christians fervently believe the prophecies
> foretell.
well? You don't think Iran or the Afghan Taliban would want to be
part of it?
>
> The current smaller wars against Arab Muslims are the warm-up
> bloodletting to Armageddon. It is being touted as evidence that the
> prophecies are being fulfilled.
To which smaller wars against Arab Muslims are you referring?
> The current smaller wars against Arab Muslims are the warm-up
> bloodletting to Armageddon. It is being touted as evidence that the
> prophecies are being fulfilled.
>
> When or if such a great war manifests, it is likely you will simply be
> another voice of fear, hatred, and self-righteousness that will
> rationalize and support the bloodiest human clash of all time.
Since the prophecy says it's the people you like who will start
> When or if such a great war manifests, it is likely you will simply be
> another voice of fear, hatred, and self-righteousness that will
> rationalize and support the bloodiest human clash of all time.
it, why would you blame me for being on the side of of the people
who would only want to defend themselves from the attackers?
>
> You and your Christians will pray to your god for victory over evil, and
> you'll all be most pleased - if prophecy interpretations play out
> accurately as expected - that Jesus will reign over all peoples of the
> earth as the true representative of your god. And for a millennium in fact.
>
> I can't picture a greater expectation of spilling massive blood to
> eliminate others' religions' prophesied coming representatives of god,
> regarded as counterfeit, dispose of their "inferior" religions, than
> what the bible is widely believed by Christians to predict as an
> unchangeable course to a disastrously future mass carnage.
The prophecy says nations of the world will attack Israel and try
> You and your Christians will pray to your god for victory over evil, and
> you'll all be most pleased - if prophecy interpretations play out
> accurately as expected - that Jesus will reign over all peoples of the
> earth as the true representative of your god. And for a millennium in fact.
>
> I can't picture a greater expectation of spilling massive blood to
> eliminate others' religions' prophesied coming representatives of god,
> regarded as counterfeit, dispose of their "inferior" religions, than
> what the bible is widely believed by Christians to predict as an
> unchangeable course to a disastrously future mass carnage.
to eliminate Israel from the map. Some of Iran's leaders have said
they want to eliminate Israel from the map. Many Middle Eastern
countries use maps that don't show Israel. Even Harper Collins got
into the act:
Headline: "HarperCollins omits Israel from maps for Mideast
schools, citing 'local preferences'"
[excerpt] For months, publishing giant HarperCollins has been
selling an atlas it says was "developed specifically for schools
in the Middle East." It trumpets the work as providing students an
"in-depth coverage of the region and its issues." Its stated goals
include helping kids understand the "relationship between the
social and physical environment, the region's challenges [and] its
socio-economic development."
Nice goals. But there's one problem: Israel is missing.
There's Syria. There's Jordan. There's Gaza. But no mention of
Israel. The story was first reported by a Catholic publication,
the Tablet.
On Wednesday, HarperCollins was backtracking fast. "HarperCollins
regrets the omission of the name Israel from their Collins Middle
East Atlas," HarperCollins UK said on its Facebook page. "This
product has now been removed from sale in all territories and all
remaining stock will be pulped. HarperCollins sincerely apologizes
for this omission and for any offense it caused." [end excerpt]
http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2015/01/02/harpercollins-omits-israel-from-maps-for-mideast-schools-citing-local-preferences/
All the signs are in place that the world is turning against
Israel. You're part of it. Obama is part of it. There is nothing
in the prophecy that indicates our country will come to their
defense when the people you like attack Israel.
>
> As I said, God needs all the bloody support it can get.
How interesting that it's the people you like who will doing the
> As I said, God needs all the bloody support it can get.
attacking (according to the prophecy you brought up), yet you're
acting as if it will all be someone else's fault.
angelofdeath
Jan 2, 2015, 6:26:04 PM1/2/15
to
deep in the Megiddo valley that it reaches the height of a horses
bridle! HORSES?
I mean, if one is to take a quick scan of Christian prophecy sites, a
reasonably intelligent, rational person would be compelled to think they
were reading the words of deranged asylum residents.
If Israel has no allies from the West, being that they are supposed to
be deceived by the antichrist, and it is attacked by "all the world
assembled against it", then it should mean Israel's military might must
be extraordinarily strong to be able to exist as long as it does given
the war's expected duration.
I've said Israel is so heavily armed that no Arab Muslim/Persian nation
stands a fighting chance even if it got lucky with a preemptive nuke
attack. With or without its US/EU allies, Israel's retaliatory
capability would annihilate its enemies.
But the war is likely irrelevant, really, isn't it? Jesus comes and with
God's power, the armies are brought to ruin, the nations brought down,
and finally your dream comes true:
Christianity, headed by a resurrected Jesus, becomes the dominant
religion, if not the only religion. Evil is put back into its hellish
hole for a millennium.
It seems something perfectionists, dreamers, nationalists, religious
bigots, assorted race-based fanatics and, of course, dedicated idiots
would fight to the last goddamned bloody drop for.
:))~
Steven Douglas
Jan 2, 2015, 7:03:26 PM1/2/15
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On Friday, January 2, 2015 3:26:04 PM UTC-8, angelofdeath wrote:
>
> Prophecy is all essentially mumbo-jumbo!
Then why did you bring it up?
>
> Prophecy is all essentially mumbo-jumbo!
Arc Michael
Jan 3, 2015, 1:34:55 PM1/3/15
to
On Sunday, December 28, 2014 3:47:06 PM UTC-8, Amos wrote:
> Governments and religious institutions in the Middle East consider atheism a
the way u speak unfairly and uneducatedly about Christianity would not be tolerated in strict Moslem societies. You would be dead, by now.
170,000,000 people were murdered by Atheists in the 20 th century.
that is ATHEISTS, u turd.
now how many were killed over Religion in this same 20 th century?
angelofdeath
Jan 3, 2015, 3:14:43 PM1/3/15
to
:)~
Steven Douglas
Jan 4, 2015, 12:45:20 PM1/4/15
to
wrong, as you did), then wait for you to respond to it so I can
tell you what I brought up is all essentially mumbo-jumbo?
angelofdeath
Jan 4, 2015, 5:41:07 PM1/4/15
to
accurate depiction, motivation, and sequence, don't you all? LOL!
The antichrist tricks Israel's former allies into turning against it,
presumably by exploiting belief in a false Jesus in Jerusalem.
I find myself having trouble seriously discussing the MumboJumbo of
prophecy, biblical or otherwise.
I've seen very, very little prophecy from any source play out close
enough to be of any significance in seriously thinking the future has
been pre-determined.
Details of prophesied events in the bible have been subject to so much
varied interpretation, and the biggest error has been for its fans to do
as you do - attempt to connect current events to a prophetic scenario.
It's a happy fool's game, as it dovetails nicely into your right-wing
hatred and fear of the Left.
So, uh, time's running short, and it's Obama and liberals like myself
who are paving the way for the antichrist person or system, eh?
Well, that kind of threat, that suspicion, helps generate violence,
justifies it, adorns it with God's approval.
If Israel and its link to Western Christianity have become a
political/social tool to promote Republicanism, it has apparently been
successful.
The next step is for God to support those Republican Christians that
aren't tricked by the antichrist's evil sway over the species, and keep
killing any militant Muslim Arab groups hostile to Israel and its
allies, support the diminishing of privacy rights here, support more
police and blockwatch surveillance to protect us from the growing threat
of Muslim evildoers, sound alarms the Muslims are attempting to change
secular law and push Christians around, move our large armies in and out
of the Middle East in response to each internal war or the rise of yet
another extremist group, and then have it ALL go to fucking hell as the
antichrist tricks us and our allies in warring against Israel!
Makes so much sense-not! The AC will have the terrorists and autocratic
Muslim/Persian leaders on its side, of course, and all the rest of the
world with it!!
So, one rationally asks: why bother to fight against Muslim Arabs?? If
one were to really, really believe this is our collective fate, it's all
fucking futile, isn't it?
You and your goddamned cockeyed religious fanaticism, junior. It and
your swampy politics to lubricate it.
:))~
:))~
Steven Douglas
Jan 4, 2015, 7:32:51 PM1/4/15
to
On Sunday, January 4, 2015 2:41:07 PM UTC-8, angelofdeath wrote:
> On 1/4/2015 9:45 AM, Steven Douglas wrote:
> > On Saturday, January 3, 2015 12:14:43 PM UTC-8, angelofdeath wrote:
> >> On 1/2/2015 4:03 PM, Steven Douglas wrote:
> >>> On Friday, January 2, 2015 3:26:04 PM UTC-8, angelofdeath wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> Prophecy is all essentially mumbo-jumbo!
> >>>
> >>> Then why did you bring it up?
> >>
> >> Because this is a chat forum. Why are you bringing things up?
> >
> > Do I provide a lot of detail about something (getting a lot of it
> > wrong, as you did), then wait for you to respond to it so I can
> > tell you what I brought up is all essentially mumbo-jumbo?
>
> OH, well, you and other Christians "know" about the course of events, in
> accurate depiction, motivation, and sequence, don't you all?
When have I ever made this an issue with you?
> On 1/4/2015 9:45 AM, Steven Douglas wrote:
> > On Saturday, January 3, 2015 12:14:43 PM UTC-8, angelofdeath wrote:
> >> On 1/2/2015 4:03 PM, Steven Douglas wrote:
> >>> On Friday, January 2, 2015 3:26:04 PM UTC-8, angelofdeath wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> Prophecy is all essentially mumbo-jumbo!
> >>>
> >>> Then why did you bring it up?
> >>
> >> Because this is a chat forum. Why are you bringing things up?
> >
> > Do I provide a lot of detail about something (getting a lot of it
> > wrong, as you did), then wait for you to respond to it so I can
> > tell you what I brought up is all essentially mumbo-jumbo?
>
> OH, well, you and other Christians "know" about the course of events, in
> accurate depiction, motivation, and sequence, don't you all?
>
> The antichrist tricks Israel's former allies into turning against it,
> presumably by exploiting belief in a false Jesus in Jerusalem.
>
> I find myself having trouble seriously discussing the MumboJumbo of
> prophecy, biblical or otherwise.
> The antichrist tricks Israel's former allies into turning against it,
> presumably by exploiting belief in a false Jesus in Jerusalem.
>
> I find myself having trouble seriously discussing the MumboJumbo of
> prophecy, biblical or otherwise.
manfromu.f.o.
Jan 6, 2015, 4:23:32 AM1/6/15
to
bringing up subjects?
Do you know how ridiculous you look believing in a teenage virgin that
claims she was impregnated by a god?
LOL!
Just that fairy tale alone, is enough to cancel out whatever strained
objections you have against my behavior or anyone's that question the
sanity of Christian doctrine.
Given that you immerse yourself addictively in the swamp of shitty
politics, believe Obama and I are helping usher in the age of the
antichrist, elevate yourself morally, intellectually,, ideologically
chronically, well...why are you acting like someone is behaving
irrationally?
You're drowning in irrationality, junior.
Oceans of ethereal entities, magical events, fairy-tale history,
unprovable as unprovable can get, fantasy so fantastic it defines both
terms, conspiratorial paranoia permeation of your biased arrogant brain,
and you ask, "Why did I bring it up?"
You've been upchucking your fantastical horseshit for years here,
expecting that it somehow bolsters your sanity, your personal integrity.
'
It does nothing more than make you a fanatical hypocrite.
Why do you bring what you bring up? Why does anyone in a casual talk
forum? You want rationality, rigid protocol, start by becoming self-aware.
:))
Steven Douglas
Jan 6, 2015, 10:09:13 PM1/6/15
to
On Tuesday, January 6, 2015 1:23:32 AM UTC-8, manfromu.f.o. wrote:
> On 1/4/2015 4:32 PM, Steven Douglas wrote:
> > On Sunday, January 4, 2015 2:41:07 PM UTC-8, angelofdeath wrote:
> >> On 1/4/2015 9:45 AM, Steven Douglas wrote:
> >>> On Saturday, January 3, 2015 12:14:43 PM UTC-8, angelofdeath wrote:
> >>>> On 1/2/2015 4:03 PM, Steven Douglas wrote:
> >>>>> On Friday, January 2, 2015 3:26:04 PM UTC-8, angelofdeath wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Prophecy is all essentially mumbo-jumbo!
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Then why did you bring it up?
> >>>>
> >>>> Because this is a chat forum. Why are you bringing things up?
> >>>
> >>> Do I provide a lot of detail about something (getting a lot of it
> >>> wrong, as you did), then wait for you to respond to it so I can
> >>> tell you what I brought up is all essentially mumbo-jumbo?
> >>
> >> OH, well, you and other Christians "know" about the course of events, in
> >> accurate depiction, motivation, and sequence, don't you all?
> >
> > When have I ever made this an issue with you?
> >>
> >> The antichrist tricks Israel's former allies into turning against it,
> >> presumably by exploiting belief in a false Jesus in Jerusalem.
> >>
> >> I find myself having trouble seriously discussing the MumboJumbo of
> >> prophecy, biblical or otherwise.
> >
> > Then why did you bring it up?
>
> Do you have some terrible psychotic problem with people in chat forums
> bringing up subjects?
I'm trying to understand why you bring up a topic, then complain
> On 1/4/2015 4:32 PM, Steven Douglas wrote:
> > On Sunday, January 4, 2015 2:41:07 PM UTC-8, angelofdeath wrote:
> >> On 1/4/2015 9:45 AM, Steven Douglas wrote:
> >>> On Saturday, January 3, 2015 12:14:43 PM UTC-8, angelofdeath wrote:
> >>>> On 1/2/2015 4:03 PM, Steven Douglas wrote:
> >>>>> On Friday, January 2, 2015 3:26:04 PM UTC-8, angelofdeath wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Prophecy is all essentially mumbo-jumbo!
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Then why did you bring it up?
> >>>>
> >>>> Because this is a chat forum. Why are you bringing things up?
> >>>
> >>> Do I provide a lot of detail about something (getting a lot of it
> >>> wrong, as you did), then wait for you to respond to it so I can
> >>> tell you what I brought up is all essentially mumbo-jumbo?
> >>
> >> OH, well, you and other Christians "know" about the course of events, in
> >> accurate depiction, motivation, and sequence, don't you all?
> >
> > When have I ever made this an issue with you?
> >>
> >> The antichrist tricks Israel's former allies into turning against it,
> >> presumably by exploiting belief in a false Jesus in Jerusalem.
> >>
> >> I find myself having trouble seriously discussing the MumboJumbo of
> >> prophecy, biblical or otherwise.
> >
> > Then why did you bring it up?
>
> Do you have some terrible psychotic problem with people in chat forums
> bringing up subjects?
about the topic by saying how much trouble you have discussing
the issue you brought up. Can you explain your logic in bringing
up a topic, and then complaining that the topic has been brought
up?
>
> Do you know how ridiculous you look believing in a teenage virgin that
> claims she was impregnated by a god?
Does Obama look equally ridiculous? He's a self-proclaimed
> Do you know how ridiculous you look believing in a teenage virgin that
> claims she was impregnated by a god?
Christian, you know. Or do only I look ridiculous?
>
> Just that fairy tale alone, is enough to cancel out whatever strained
> objections you have against my behavior or anyone's that question the
> sanity of Christian doctrine.
Have I ever asked you to believe what I (and Obama) believe?
> Just that fairy tale alone, is enough to cancel out whatever strained
> objections you have against my behavior or anyone's that question the
> sanity of Christian doctrine.
>
> Given that you immerse yourself addictively in the swamp of shitty
> politics, believe Obama and I are helping usher in the age of the
> antichrist, elevate yourself morally, intellectually,, ideologically
> chronically, well...why are you acting like someone is behaving
> irrationally?
Do you believe you're in the great majority, while I'm just a
> Given that you immerse yourself addictively in the swamp of shitty
> politics, believe Obama and I are helping usher in the age of the
> antichrist, elevate yourself morally, intellectually,, ideologically
> chronically, well...why are you acting like someone is behaving
> irrationally?
marginalized kook because I'm a Christian?
>
> You're drowning in irrationality, junior.
Does that apply to Obama, too?
> You're drowning in irrationality, junior.
>
> Oceans of ethereal entities, magical events, fairy-tale history,
> unprovable as unprovable can get, fantasy so fantastic it defines both
> terms, conspiratorial paranoia permeation of your biased arrogant brain,
> and you ask, "Why did I bring it up?"
Why would you bring something up that you obviously don't enjoy
> Oceans of ethereal entities, magical events, fairy-tale history,
> unprovable as unprovable can get, fantasy so fantastic it defines both
> terms, conspiratorial paranoia permeation of your biased arrogant brain,
> and you ask, "Why did I bring it up?"
discussing?
>
> You've been upchucking your fantastical horseshit for years here,
> expecting that it somehow bolsters your sanity, your personal integrity.
Give an example.
> You've been upchucking your fantastical horseshit for years here,
> expecting that it somehow bolsters your sanity, your personal integrity.
>
> It does nothing more than make you a fanatical hypocrite.
In what way?
> It does nothing more than make you a fanatical hypocrite.
>
> Why do you bring what you bring up?
When I bring something up, I don't turn around and start
> Why do you bring what you bring up?
complaining because I have trouble discussing the thing I brought
up.
>
> Why does anyone in a casual talk
> forum? You want rationality, rigid protocol, start by becoming self-aware.
You're free to bring up anything you want to bring up. But if you
> Why does anyone in a casual talk
> forum? You want rationality, rigid protocol, start by becoming self-aware.
start complaining about something you brought up, I'm going to
ask you why you brought it up if discussing it gives you so much trouble.
angelofdeath
Jan 10, 2015, 8:25:35 PM1/10/15
to
ENJOY beating a dead horse?"
Steven Douglas
Jan 10, 2015, 11:10:44 PM1/10/15
to
On Saturday, January 10, 2015 at 5:25:35 PM UTC-8, angelofdeath wrote:
> On 1/6/2015 7:09 PM, Steven Douglas wrote:
> > On Tuesday, January 6, 2015 1:23:32 AM UTC-8, manfromu.f.o. wrote:
>
> >> Oceans of ethereal entities, magical events, fairy-tale history,
> >> unprovable as unprovable can get, fantasy so fantastic it defines both
> >> terms, conspiratorial paranoia permeation of your biased arrogant brain,
> >> and you ask, "Why did I bring it up?"
> >
> > Why would you bring something up that you obviously don't enjoy
> > discussing?
>
> The question you should be asking not me, but yourself, "Why do you
> ENJOY beating a dead horse?"
It was a rhetorical question asking you why you brought it up.
> On 1/6/2015 7:09 PM, Steven Douglas wrote:
> > On Tuesday, January 6, 2015 1:23:32 AM UTC-8, manfromu.f.o. wrote:
>
> >> Oceans of ethereal entities, magical events, fairy-tale history,
> >> unprovable as unprovable can get, fantasy so fantastic it defines both
> >> terms, conspiratorial paranoia permeation of your biased arrogant brain,
> >> and you ask, "Why did I bring it up?"
> >
> > Why would you bring something up that you obviously don't enjoy
> > discussing?
>
> The question you should be asking not me, but yourself, "Why do you
> ENJOY beating a dead horse?"
I know why you brought it up, because you demonstrated why you
brought it up. You wanted to use the topic to beat me over the
head with it, as if I had brought it up. You wanted to let me
know "how ridiculous" you think I look, while completely
ignoring that Obama is a self-professed Christian.
You wanted to beat me over the head with the topic while trying
to make me believe I'm the only Christian believer in the whole
country, and I should feel "ridiculous" for believing what I
(and millions upon millions of other Christians in this country)
believe. That's why you brought it up.
angelofdeath
Jan 12, 2015, 6:08:05 PM1/12/15
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accurately (albeit creepily and sadly) illustrates what I've known about
you from the beginning - an ideological obsessive that has severe
paranoiac delusions - than the above bitchy blather you shrilly spouted.
:))! lol!
Arc Michael
Jan 12, 2015, 7:33:26 PM1/12/15
to
now even dumbocraps are loving Jeb, so WW III is not far off, eh?
Stevy does not even care about anything but making all believe Demons are our salvation.
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