Canadians snicker at American criticism of their health care system.
Harry Hope
"The flaw in the American system," Ontario Health Minister David
Caplan said recently, "is that first they check the size of your
wallet, not the size of your need."
...................................................................................................................
Canada's system provides its citizens with coverage at a much lower
per capita cost than the U.S. largely because its single-payer system,
in which the government picks up the tab, greatly reduces
administrative costs.
From The Associated Press, 8/30/09:
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/sns-ap-cn-canada-medicare-for-all,0,3246185.story
By CHARMAINE NORONHA Associated Press Writer
TORONTO (AP) �
From screaming babies to frail seniors, Canadian-born or recent
immigrants, the patients flow continuously through the waiting room of
Dr. Kamini Kambli's clinic. Most have made their appointments that
day. None will receive a bill.
The receptionist swipes their ID to verify their eligibility as
Ontario residents for coverage under Canada's universal health care
system. Kambli's family medical practice will be reimbursed by the
government.
Canada's system is called Medicare, and is much like Medicare in the
U.S. for over-65-year-olds, except that this one treats virtually the
entire Canadian population of 33 million.
"It's one of the best systems in the world. Everyone is guaranteed
health care and it does not matter if you're rich or poor or what your
medical condition is � you will be seen and provided health care. How
can you argue with that?" says Kambli, who used to practice medicine
in her native India.
__________________________________________________
How 'bout that.
Harry
Obama-Gestapo Care Is Dead
Card Check - Dead! Cramdown - Dead! Illegal Immigrant Amnesty - Dead!
Cap And Tax - Dead! Single Payer - Dead! Public Option - Dead! ("it
seems to indicate that the public option is dead")
http://newledger.com/2009/08/1-pop-popcorn-2-sit-back-3-eat-popcorn-and-enjoy-show/
(1) Pop Popcorn. (2) Sit Back. (3) Eat Popcorn And Enjoy Show.
by Pejman Yousefzadeh
TPMDC and Think Progress have both decided to target Harry Reid for
essentially ditching the public option and rooting for non-profit co-
ops to serve as competition against the private health insurance
industry. This is delightful news on several levels; it seems to
indicate that the public option is dead, non-profit co-ops are, as
TPMDC states, a system that “all reformers regard with suspicion, and
many regard as a non-starter,” which means that they may well not pass
either, and one of the more distasteful Senators up on Capitol Hill is
getting attacked by powerful liberal blogs that would ordinarily be
spending time, energy, and resources thinking about how to defend him
against Republicans. Perfect.
I am all for health care reform, in the event that the point needs to
be made again. But I am not for Reid’s vision of health care reform,
and I am certainly not for the brand of health care reform envisioned
by the likes of TPMDC and Think Progress. If the three of them want to
spend time fighting and destroying each other politically, that is
fine with me. The rest of us can get health care reform done right.
-----
How 'bout that.
heh heh
tsk, tsk
yup
Lovely
Beautiful
Love it
freeisbest
> David Caplan said recently, "is that first they check the size
> of your wallet, not the size of your need."
> ...................................................................................................................
>
> Canada's system provides its citizens with coverage at a
> much lower per capita cost than the U.S. largely because its
> single-payer system, in which the government picks up
> the tab, greatly reduces administrative costs.
>
> From The Associated Press, 8/30/09:
>
> By CHARMAINE NORONHA Associated Press Writer
>
> TORONTO (AP) —
> From screaming babies to frail seniors, Canadian-born or recent
> immigrants, the patients flow continuously through the waiting room of
> Dr. Kamini Kambli's clinic. Most have made their appointments that
> day. None will receive a bill.
>
> The receptionist swipes their ID to verify their eligibility as
> Ontario residents for coverage under Canada's universal health care
> system. Kambli's family medical practice will be reimbursed by the
> government.
>
> Canada's system is called Medicare, and is much like Medicare
> in the U.S. for over-65-year-olds, except that this one treats virtually the
> entire Canadian population of 33 million.
>
> "It's one of the best systems in the world. Everyone is guaranteed
> health care and it does not matter if you're rich or poor or what your
> medical condition is — you will be seen and provided health care. How
> can you argue with that?" says Kambli, who used to practice medicine
> in her native India.
The Canadians feel sorry for us, the way we feel sorry for someone
so drunk he's pissing on himself but still slobbers he's 'just fine,
in fact, _bettern'n fine[.
znuybv
> "The flaw in the American system," Ontario Health Minister David
> Caplan said recently, "is that first they check the size of your
> wallet, not the size of your need."
>
> ...................................................................................................................
>
>
> Harry
What a bunch of horse shit!
Is this Minister telling us that the rich in Canada do not get better
health care than the poor?
You would have to be a complete fool to believe that.
Either that or a brain dead Liberal.
Pleepleus
> On Aug 31, 4:17 am, Harry Hope <riv...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>
> > "The flaw in the American system," Ontario Health Minister David
> > Caplan said recently, "is that first they check the size of your
> > wallet, not the size of your need."
>
> > Harry
>
> What a bunch of horse shit!
> Is this Minister telling us that the rich in Canada do not get better
> health care than the poor?
> You would have to be a complete fool to believe that.
> Either that or a brain dead Liberal.
The criticism is essentially true - but it matters not what kind of
healthcare system you have – totally free market or otherwise – rich
nation or poor – the wealthy will always get whatever they want or
need much faster than anyone else. Simple reality - wealth buys
whatever it wants - and gets it delivered fast.
freeisbest
> > "The flaw in the American system," Ontario Health Minister
> > David Caplan said recently, "is that first they check the size
> > of your wallet, not the size of your need."
> > ...................................................................................................................
>
> get better health care than the poor?
Why do you care? What's it to you that somebody else *might* get
deluxe treatment?
In the U.S. we DON'T CARE if somebody, somewhere, gets super-
deluxe-medical-care-with-a-cherry-on-top. We care that EVERYONE gets
medical care when they need it. We're still a country with Christian
ideals, although not all our citizens are Christians. They don't have
to be. Our founders knew that religions always wield a whip if they
get a chance, so religion is not allowed to choose who gets medical
care.
And what country are you posting from? In the U.S. everyone
except rightwingers still believes in compassion and a government that
DOESN'T let corporations profit off the poverty and desperation of its
citizens. Too bad about your country.
wy
>
> > "The flaw in the American system," Ontario Health Minister David
> > Caplan said recently, "is that first they check the size of your
> > wallet, not the size of your need."
>
>
> ><snip>
>
> > Harry
>
> What a bunch of horse shit!
> Is this Minister telling us that the rich in Canada do not get better
> health care than the poor?
No, that's not what he's saying. He's saying that it doesn't matter
if you're rich or poor in Canada, you'll still get the care you need.
In the U.S., if you don't open your wallet, and wide, you won't get
the care you need without having to dig deeper into your pocket if you
didn't open your wallet wide enough for the best coverage. And if
you're broke and out of a job, the government has to come to your
rescue and pay your tab with public money anyway, so you lose both
ways. In the U.S., you either get the bargain basement plan (which is
every HMO and PPO plan out there because none will cover you 100%) or
the gold plan, and only employees of the U.S. government have the gold
plan, so you're out of luck, buddy. Meanwhile, in Canada, everybody
has the gold plan and they'll never go bankrupt, lose their home or
even lose coverage if they lose their job. Can't beat that. So what
is it again that you're defending?
znuybv
Tell that to the brain dead Liberals.
znuybv
> travel to the U.S. and pay the price. There is no 'alternate' medical
> care for the rich in Canada.
Are you saying that they would just let a politician with the stature
of a Kennedy just die?
I'm having a hard time believing that.
znuybv
> On Mon, 31 Aug 2009 10:20:03 -0700 (PDT), znuybv <tjwil...@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>
>
>
> travel to the U.S. and pay the price. There is no 'alternate' medical
> care for the rich in Canada.
Do you favor a system like that? Does having rich people die make the
poor feel better?
John Q Public
<snip>
Harry
> Alternate medical care is available for the 'rich' if they simply
> travel to the U.S. and pay the price. There is no 'alternate' medical
> care for the rich in Canada.
This is what Canadians think of their healthcare
http://no-pasaran.blogspot.com/2009/07/how-many-of-you-canadians-in-room-think.html
Bob
news:2009083119391543658-my2cents@mecom...
Hahaha. Best post I've seen today.
wy
> On 2009-08-31 18:34:13 -0400, E. Barry Bruyea <termlim...@democracy.com> said:
>
> > On Mon, 31 Aug 2009 10:20:03 -0700 (PDT), znuybv <tjwil...@yahoo.com>
> > wrote:
>
> >> On Aug 31, 4:17 am, Harry Hope <riv...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
> >>> "The flaw in the American system," Ontario Health Minister David
> >>> Caplan said recently, "is that first they check the size of your
> >>> wallet, not the size of your need."
>
>
> <snip>
>
> Harry
>
> What
>
>
>
> >> a bunch of horse shit!
> >> Is this Minister telling us that the rich in Canada do not get better
> >> health care than the poor?
> >> You would have to be a complete fool to believe that.
> >> Either that or a brain dead Liberal.
>
> > Alternate medical care is available for the 'rich' if they simply
> > travel to the U.S. and pay the price. There is no 'alternate' medical
> > care for the rich in Canada.
>
How many Canadians were in that room? Not as many as he thought. So
that's what, 5 maybe? Out of 33 million. And who were those
Canadians? We don't know, we didn't even see their faces. Were they
even Canadians? Let's see passports. And if they were Canadians,
then they thinking that the Canadian health care system is terrible
can only be attributable to their being from Nunanvit, which does have
shoddy health care just like sporadic areas along the southern belt of
the U.S. Next phony argument.
Geopinion
> On Aug 31, 3:34 pm, E. Barry Bruyea <termlim...@democracy.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Mon, 31 Aug 2009 10:20:03 -0700 (PDT), znuybv <tjwil...@yahoo.com>
> > wrote:
>
> > >On Aug 31, 4:17 am, Harry Hope <riv...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
> > >> "The flaw in the American system," Ontario Health Minister David
> > >> Caplan said recently, "is that first they check the size of your
> > >> wallet, not the size of your need."
>
>
> > >><snip>
>
> > >> Harry
>
> > >What a bunch of horse shit!
> > >Is this Minister telling us that the rich in Canada do not get better
> > >health care than the poor?
> > >You would have to be a complete fool to believe that.
> > >Either that or a brain dead Liberal.
>
> > Alternate medical care is available for the 'rich' if they simply
> > travel to the U.S. and pay the price. There is no 'alternate' medical
> > care for the rich in Canada.
>
> Are you saying that they would just let a politician with the stature
> of a Kennedy just die?
>
> - Show quoted text -
Someone with the stature of a Kennedy would get the same health care
as someone with the stature of a grade-school teacher or a college
student or a backhoe operator. What part of that makes you think
"they" would allow someone with the stature of a Kennedy just die?
Are you saying he wouldn't be treated because he's rich? or that the
system lets everyone die - as if there are people who don't ever die?
Everyone on the Right here in the US seems to think poor people and
everyone who hasn't saved a million dollars (in addition to the
million they'll need for retirement, the million they'll need for the
kids' college, etc.) for serious medical care should just die.
The only reasons someone of the Kennedys' stature (or the Cheneys' or
the Limbaughs') in Canada would leave to come to the U.S. for
treatment are: a) they want to jump ahead of others (you know, the
less wealthy, the less deserving) in line for procedures; or, b) they
want some sort of extra-special cosmetic procedure that isn't covered
under their national plan.
Now I suppose we'll hear a new right-wing talking point: Obama's plan
will require that the wealthy die.
MLW
freeisbest
> On Mon, 31 Aug 2009 16:37:11 -0700 (PDT), znuybv <tjwil...@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
> >On Aug 31, 3:34 pm, E. Barry Bruyea <termlim...@democracy.com> wrote:
> >> On Mon, 31 Aug 2009 10:20:03 -0700 (PDT), znuybv <tjwil...@yahoo.com>
> >> wrote:
>
> >> >On Aug 31, 4:17 am, Harry Hope <riv...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
> >> >> "The flaw in the American system," Ontario Health Minister
David
> >> >> Caplan said recently, "is that first they check the size of your
> >> >> wallet, not the size of your need."
> >> >> ........................................................................................................
>
> >> >> Harry
> I have to admit that we don't let Hockey players wait for medical
> care, but everybody else does.
--------------------------------------------------------
"We"? Bull. You're about as Canadian as the CEOs of the U.S.
health "insurance" companies - only on the net and only for the
purposes of propaganda.
znuybv
> On Aug 31, 4:37 pm,znuybv<tjwil...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Aug 31, 3:34 pm, E. Barry Bruyea <termlim...@democracy.com> wrote:
>
just got a pain pill rather than the expensive procedure.
> Everyone on the Right here in the US seems to think poor people and
> everyone who hasn't saved a million dollars (in addition to the
> million they'll need for retirement, the million they'll need for the
> kids' college, etc.) for serious medical care should just die.
>
That's what they do in Canada. You just get in line and die.
> The only reasons someone of the Kennedys' stature (or the Cheneys' or
> the Limbaughs') in Canada would leave to come to the U.S. for
> treatment are: a) they want to jump ahead of others (you know, the
> less wealthy, the less deserving) in line for procedures; or, b) they
> want some sort of extra-special cosmetic procedure that isn't covered
> under their national plan.
>
Here in the USA the rock stars are first in line for the liver
transplants. Nobody seems to mind.
> Now I suppose we'll hear a new right-wing talking point: Obama's plan
> will require that the wealthy die.
>
I'm going to spite Obama. I'm going to get the best medical care I
can get.
> MLW
znuybv
> On Aug 31, 7:39 pm, John Q Public <my2ce...@me.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On 2009-08-31 18:34:13 -0400, E. Barry Bruyea <termlim...@democracy.com> said:
>
7 Canadians were in the room.
A person I know tells the story of a Canadian man who had an
incontinence problem. That's where you have to get up seven times a
night to go to the bathroom. A simple surgical procedure takes care
of the problem. It takes about a half hour. An appointment was made
for the man in Canada to get the procedure. The waiting time was six
months. He went to the US and had it done in a week and a half.
"Patients wait between a GP referral and orthopedic surgery (38.1
weeks), plastic surgery (34.8 weeks) and neurosurgery (27.2 weeks).
The median wait for a CT scan across Canada was 4.8 weeks. British
Columbia, Alberta, Ontario, New Brunswick and Nova Scotia had the
shortest wait for CT scans (4.0 weeks), while the longest wait
occurred in Manitoba (8.0 weeks).
The median wait for an MRI across Canada was 10.1 weeks. Patients in
Ontario experienced the shortest wait for an MRI (7.8 weeks), while
Newfoundland and Labrador residents waited longest (20.0 weeks)."-
CBC
Pleepleus
>
> I'm going to spite Obama. I'm going to get the best medical care I
> can get.
And amazingly enough you don't mind spiting yourself in the process by
paying 10 times too much for it.
znuybv
By whose account? Yours? What do you know?
Pleepleus
I know not to swallow the absurd right wing health care reform lies
that your kind eats up like candy.
John Q Public
> On Aug 31, 5:10�pm, wy <w...@myself.com> wrote:
>> On Aug 31, 7:39�pm, John Q Public <my2ce...@me.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>> On 2009-08-31 18:34:13 -0400, E. Barry Bruyea <termlim...@democracy.com
>> said:
>>
>>>> On Mon, 31 Aug 2009 10:20:03 -0700 (PDT),znuybv<tjwil...@yahoo.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>
>>>>> On Aug 31, 4:17�am, Harry Hope <riv...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>>>>>> "The flaw in the American system," Ontario Health Minister David
>>>>>> Caplan said recently, "is that first they check the size of your
>>>>>> wallet, not the size of your need."
>>
>>>>>> ...................................................................
> ........�........................................
Throw in the cancer/heart disease survival rates along with a slew of
other critical diseases
and you'll see why they come to the US, Cnada basically supplies a
quick trip to the morgue
waiting for treatment
wy
All depends where you live. Have you ever looked at a map of Canada?
Big country. Much bigger than the U.S. People are pretty spread
out. Of course, those in highly concentrated population areas would
get better service. Not so much once you get into small towns, rural
and remote areas, like Newfoundland and Labrador, which would
negatively impact on the median wait times. The median wait times
also largely reflect how long it takes to get non-emergency procedures
done. Try showing one on how long it takes to get emergency
procedures done, I'll bet it'll be more like minutes or hours.
Besides, one can live with incontinence, as annoying as it may be,
it's not life-threatening. I live with a deviated septum and it's not
killing me. Sometimes you gotta learn to be a man and take it like
one. That's what makes Canadians a hearty breed.
tv
Especially the pro-hockey players. But then they don't have to wait
months for medical treatment.
znuybv
> On Sep 1, 6:28 pm,znuybv<tjwil...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > On Sep 1, 2:33 pm, Pleepleus <johnny...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> > > > I'm going to spite Obama. I'm going to get the best medical care I
> > > > can get.
>
> > > And amazingly enough you don't mind spiting yourself in the process by
> > > paying 10 times too much for it.
>
> > By whose account? Yours? What do you know?
>
> I know not to swallow the absurd right wing health care reform lies
> that your kind eats up like candy.
How does that left wing health care reform lies candy taste? Better
than the right wing kind?
Pleepleus
> > > > And amazingly enough you don't mind spiting yourself in the process by
> > > > paying 10 times too much for it.
>
> > > By whose account? Yours? What do you know?
>
> > I know not to swallow the absurd right wing health care reform lies
> > that your kind eats up like candy.
>
> How does that left wing health care reform lies candy taste? Better
> than the right wing kind?
Try quoting some of those "left wing lies" - only thing you'll come up
with are the same old stupid, discredited, RIGHT-wing nut lies.
Wilson Woods
Canada, which has universal single-payer health insurance, is often
criticized for waiting times for surgery that are longer than those in
the United States. We compared waiting times for orthopedic
consultations and knee-replacement surgery and patients' acceptance of
them in the United States and in the province of Ontario, Canada.
Methods
A stratified random sample of 1486 Medicare recipients (629 from the
U.S. national sample, 428 from Indiana, and 429 from western
Pennsylvania) and 516 people from Ontario who had been hospitalized for
knee replacement between 1985 and 1989 were surveyed by mail in 1992.
Patients were asked how long they had waited to see an orthopedic
surgeon and to have surgery, the acceptability of these waiting times,
and their overall satisfaction with surgery.
Results
About 80 percent of the questionnaires were returned, but not all the
respondents answered all the questions. The rate of response to specific
questions was about 60 to 65 percent in both countries. The median
waiting time for an initial orthopedic consultation was two weeks in the
United States and four weeks in Ontario. The median waiting time for
knee replacement after the operation had been planned was three weeks in
the United States and eight weeks in Canada. In the United States, 95
percent of patients in the national sample considered their waiting time
for surgery acceptable, as compared with 85.1 percent in Ontario.
Overall satisfaction with surgery ("very or somewhat satisfied") was
85.3 percent for all U.S. respondents and 83.5 percent for Canadian
respondents.