GOPers FOR the Conversion of America into a Theocracy
SATIRICUS
F O R
the CONVERSION of AMERICA
into a THEOCRACY
"We should -- we will -- welcome people of faith into the political process.
It is essential that believers enter the [political] arena. Your involvement in
politics helps determine how well our democracy works. We have finally learned
that government programs cannot solve our problems. Government can hand out
money, but government cannot put hope in our hearts or a sense of purprose in
our lives. Our new faith-based laws have removed government as a roadblock to
people of faith who hear the call." -- Gov. George W. Bush in the September
2000 issue of George magazine
[George W. says people of all faiths are welcome -- Muslims, Hindus,
Buddhists, Catholics -- as long as they believe in "do unto others as you would
have them do unto you." Which happens to be a New Testament scripture from the
Bible. So all faiths are welcome as long as they believe in Christian doctrine.
And what if you don't believe in anything?]
"I don't know that atheists should be considered citizens, nor should they
be considered patriots. This is one nation under God." -- Gov. George W. Bush
"No, George W. Bush isn't concerned about blurring the line between Church
and State. He worries more about the other side. He believes too often faith
has been kept out of government." -- Bush campaign spokesman Mindy Tucker in
the September 2000 issue of George magazine
"Ultimately we [the United States] will be a theocracy -- when the end of
time comes. Until then, I want a strong republic that deals with getting
government out of people's lives." -- Kenneth Geisley, a Kentucky Republican
delegate and Christian Coalition member at the '96 GOP Convention.
"The political scene, its leaders and its followers, are a passing mist.
[The Political] Process is incapable of providing us with meaning; you cannot
make up your absolutes as you go along. Society is best governed in accordance
with the principles of God." -- Sara DeVito Hartman, director of the
California Christian Coalition & '96 National Republican Convention delegate,
advocating that America be converted into a theocracy in her guest column in
The San Diego Union-Tribune.
"The founders of America -- at Plymouth Rock and in the Massachusetts Colony
-- felt that they were organizing a society based on the 10 Commandments and
the Sermon on the Mount. They perceived this new land a successor to the nation
of Israel, and they tried their best to model their institutions of
governmental order after the Bible. In fact the man who interpreted the meaning
of the Scripture, the Pastor, was given a higher place than the governor of the
colony. These people built an incredible society because they exalted 'the
mountain of the Lord's house' above the other mountains." -- Pat Robertson in
his own book, "The New World Order"
[Contrary to Robertson's misguided notions, the Puritans of the
Massachusetts Bay Colony experiment are more appropriately a historical
objection lesson AGAINST theocracies since the Puritans would most likely have
put Robertson to death if he had lived back then because Robertson is a
fundemantalist Southern Baptist who claims he speaks in tongues. Death by
execution for such offenses was "proper" back then and speaking in tongues
would have been labeled as blasphemous and/or inspired by Satan. Indeed, the
Puritans persecuted and ran all the Baptists -- from whom the Southern Baptists
would later split off from in the 19th century --- out of Massachusetts.]
"Therefore, I, George W. Bush, Governor of Texas, do hereby proclaim June
10, 2000, 'Jesus Day' in Texas and urge the appropriate recognition whereof, in
official recognition whereof, I hereby affix my signature this 17th day of
April, 2000."
-- George W. Bush in his "Jesus Day 2000" Proclamation
"There is no way this group [the Promise Keepers] can restrict itself when
it comes to public policy [politics]. We are producing leaders in this
organization. They will enter the public sphere [the political arena]." --
Raleigh Washington, Promise Keepers leader
"One day, I hope in the next ten years, I trust that we will have more
Christian day schools than there are public schools. I hope I live to see the
day when, as in the early days of our country, we won't have any public
schools. The churches will have taken them over again and Christians will be
running them." -- Rev. Jerry Falwell in the early '90s
"Our priorities is our faith." -- George W. Bush, Greensboro, N.C., Oct.
10, 2000
"Individual Christians are the only ones really -- and Jewish people, those
who trust God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob -- are the only ones that are
qualified to have the reign (to serve in elected or appointed public office),
because hopefully, they will be governed by God and submit to him." -- Pat
Robertson on the January 11, 1985 edition of The 700 Club
In his book, " The New World Order," Robertson asserts the same sort of
Judeo-Christians-only religious litmus tests should be applied to anybody
seeking to run for any public office:
"When I said during my presidential bid that I would only bring Christians
and Jews into the government, I hit a firestorm. `What do you mean?' the media
challenged me. 'You're not going to bring atheists into the government? Are you
daring to maintain that those who believe in the Judeo-Christian values are
better qualified to govern America than Hindus and Muslims?' My simple answer
is, `Yes, they are.' " --- from Pat Robertson's book "The New World Order,"
page 218.
"I'm not scared off by that passage [in the Bible's Book of Ephesians,
stating that slaves should submit to their masters]. It's in the Word of God
which I believe is God's Perfect Treasure of Truth in that text. . . [that]
demonstrates that the apostle Paul by the inspiration of the Holy Spirit said,
'Slaves, if you want to model what a Christian looks like, you graciously
submit [to your masters] and thereby gain moral authority.'
"Well, I have to agree with that. It's the Word of God. That is not an
endorsement of slavery as an institution. Uhhh, the Bible tells us that we are
graciously to submit to the leaders that He [God] puts in authority. Now,
again, it's a distortion to claim that the Bible endorses slavery. It does no
such thing. But it does say that if you are a slave, there is a way to behave.
And let me just point out that slavery in America did not end by a revolt by
the slaves but by the moral authority that the slaves gained as America came to
see slavery as a condemned sin.
"[As to whether it was morally right for the slave Harriet Tubman to have
run away from her master and formed the Underground Railroad in the American
South as an escape route to the North for runaway slaves,] well, I want to look
at this text seriously and it says, 'Submit to the master.' I really don't see
any loophole there [allowing slaves to not submit to their masters] as much as
popular culture might otherwise want to see one." -- Rev. Albert Mohler, Jr.,
president of the Southern Baptist Theological Seminary & prominent Republican
on the Friday, June 12, 1998 edition of CNN's Larry King Show
"I want to boldly affirm the 'Uncle Tom' slave character of Harriet Breech
Stowe's classic book 'Uncle Tom's Cabin' as an ideal African-American role
model. The black community must stop criticizing [the notion of being an] Uncle
Tom. He is a role model who, when he was stepped on like a worm at a point of
crisis, evidenced the nature of the classic model worm, Jesus Christ. . . . I
believe that slavery, and the understanding of it when you see it God's way,
was redemptive [for African-Americans]. . . . Blacks have had more than two
centuries of training in being a slave of man. It can be added as a long-term
qualification to prepare them to be a fine slave of God or to rule as a king."
-- Quote by Wellington Boone, an African-American leader in the Promise
Keepers & prominent Republican, from his book "Worm Training"
"Yes, religion and politics do mix. America is a nation based on Biblical
principles. Christian values dominate our government. The test of those values
is the Bible. Politicians who do not use the Bible to guide their public and
private lives do not belong in office." -- Conservative religious author &
lecturer Beverly LaHaye, founder of Concerned Women for America (CWA) which
opposes anti-drug and alcohol abuse programs that emphasize self-esteem and
"everything that NOW [the National Organization for Women] favors," including
abortion rights and the Equal Rights Amendment. [CWA also campaigns against gay
rights ballot initiatives (as in Oregon and Colorado) and against sex education
curricula that provide information on how to protect against unsafe sex.]
"There ought to be limits to freedom." -- George W. Bush, June 1999
"It is interesting, that termites don't build things, and the great
builders of our nation almost to a man have been Christians, because Christians
have the desire to build something. He is motivated by love of man and God, so
he builds. The people who have come into [our] institutions [today] are
primarily termites. They are into destroying institutions that have been built
by Christians, whether it is universities, governments, our own traditions,
that we have. . . . The termites are in charge now, and that is not the way it
ought to be, and the time has arrived for a Godly fumigation." -- Pat
Robertson in 1986
"America was founded on Christian principles which were intended to be
officially and legally inseparable from American public life." -- David
Barton, author of "The Myth of Separation between Church and State" (1989) and
the "America's Godly Heritage" video.
[David Barton is a notorious Religious Right propagandist who attempts to
revise history and argue that America was founded to be a Christian country. He
is the founder of WallBuilders based in Aledo, Texas, which seeks to erode the
Constitution's wall separating church and state.]
"The people in this Christian movement have got to get more sophisticated
[in order] to get people elected. If they're not elected, they're not going to
do you any good. Look, George Bush right now does not want to step into a land
mine, you know. And the land mine is, 'I will have a litmus test for judges.'
Well, if you say that -- Bingo! You've just lost a large part of the general
electorate.
"We religious conservatives must not make the mistake of pushing Bush too
far to the right by demanding a strong statement on abortion. Need I remind you
that a Virginia gubernatorial candidate lost the general election because he
opposed the Three Exceptions for abortion at the behest of some of us of the
Religious Right. . . . What Lyndon Johnson said a few years ago [as a
candidate] to his friends on the left, still goes. He said. 'Don't have them
push me so far to the left that I can't win. I'll take good care of them when I
get into office.'
"When someone says, 'I'm going to put in judges who are strict
constructionists with the Constitution,' that says an enormous amount. And as
Sen. John Ashcroft said, that means that they'd be opposed to a whole lot of
the things that the Supreme Court's been doing for the last 30 or 40 years."
-- Pat Robertson on his 700 Club Show on Jan. 24, 2000
" . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ." [Extended dead silence.]
-- Paul Edwards, Promise Keepers leader (and other PK spokesmen as well), in
clam-like silent response to the questions "Where do you in the Promise Keepers
draw the line in asking women to take a back seat to men? and "Are you saying
that women shouldn't serve in government as well???" asked by National
Organization of Women President Patricia Ireland on the Thursday, Oct. 2, 1997
edition of CNN's Crossfire
"The breakdown in society is directly attributable to women working outside
the home. The Bible commands that women be home for the man and children while
the men work in a profession and get an education. We need to go back to the
traditional family values of the 1950s." -- Pat Robertson in a 1992 newsletter
quoted by a Federal News Service story on Sept. 11, 1992
"You and I have never been called upon to have this kind of persecution. I
have felt it especially intensely over the last few years, as people on the
left of the political spectrum are hurling viscous attacks at me and at other
believers because they do not want us to have any voice in our government, they
don't want us to have any voice in the public affairs of our nation, they
don't want us to have any role in defending ourselves or our families, or
bringing about a peaceful society in America.
"And some of them, like People For the American Way are richly funded by
Hollywood -- men like Norman Lear and others, are paying vast sums of money to
attack me. That's sort of the way it is. But ladies and gentlemen, this is
America -- we haven't suffered and been hung up by our hands and had our
kidneys punched and beaten. We haven't had our houses ransacked and our
churches burned, but some people have already had their churches burned in
America.
"This virulent anti-Christian bigotry has got to stop! You cannot vote for
someone who's an anti-Christian bigot. You cannot allow somebody in public
office to be an anti-Christian bigot. These voices that are raised against
Christianity; Christians have got to stand together and say, 'No!' But beyond
that, we must join as a united front against this genocide that's taking place
in the Middle East. To see Americans become followers of quote 'Islam' is
nothing short of insanity.
"Terri, you know, I've been in Africa many, many, many, many times, and you
see people over here learning Swahili, for example. Swahili was the language of
the slave traders. The Islamic people, the Arabs, were the ones who captured
Africans, put them in slavery, and sent them to America as slaves. Why would
people in America want to embrace the religion of the slavers, and the language
of the slavers --- that's what Swahili is; it's not a native African dialect.
You say, 'What's going on in America when we welcome into our society and give
rights to people who are persecuting Christians around the world!'
"It's time we stood up against this and said, 'No more!' We must demand the
State Department do something in relation to the Sudan, in relation to the
Palestinian Authority, in relation to Iran, in relation to Saudi Arabia and
these other countries that are persecuting Christians. We can't let it happen.
And if we don't let our voices be heard, it's going to happen. Now, I think we
ought to pray, we should really pray. And then we should do something as well
as pray, and let our voices be heard. Speak out wherever we are -- we can't be
silent, look what happened in the Holocaust. A whole race was close to
extinction because we were silent. We can't be silent any longer. If it's them
now, it'll be us next." -- Pat Robertson (who owns diamond mines in Africa
and whose non-profit "Operation Blessing" mission planes were discovered in
1997 to have been used to transport diamond-mine drilling equipment for Pat's
for-profit diamond-mine operation) on the October 27, 1997 edition of The 700
Club
"I want you just to let a wave of intolerance wash over you. I want you to
let a wave of hatred wash over you. Yes, Hate is good. . . . We have a Biblical
duty: We are called by God to conquer this country. We don't want equal time.
We don't want pluralism [We don't want to share power with anybody]." --
Operation Rescue founder Randall Terry, Republican candidate for Congress in
New York
"We at the Christian Coalition are raising an army who cares. We are
training people to be effective--to be elected to school boards, to city
councils, to state legislatures, and to key positions in political parties . .
. . By the end of this decade, if we work and give and organize and train, THE
CHRISTIAN COALITION WILL BE THE MOST POWERFUL POLITICAL ORGANIZATION IN
AMERICA." -- Pat Robertson in his July 4, 1991 fundraising letter.
"We've got lots of diversity. We've got evangelicals, and we've got
fundamentalists." -- Senior GOP official referring to the Iowa delegation at
the '96 GOP Convention.
"I know this is painful for the ladies to hear, but if you get married,
you have accepted the headship of a man, your husband. Christ is the head of
the household and the husband is the head of the wife, and that's the way it is
--- period." -- Pat Robertson on The 700 Club
"We will not compromise wherever the Truth is at risk. In schools and in
legislatures, we will contend for it and we will win." -- Bill McCartney,
Promise Keepers CEO & founder
"The Promise Keepers will be the force that destroys sinners and infidels
in the days preceeding Armageddon." -- Rev. James Ryal, member of the Promise
Keepers' board of directors
"Men and women aren't equal. Men aren't going to have babies. I don't think
women are made for NFL football or combat. I don't want women to be drafted
into combat. I think they should be allowed to volunteer. . . . But the vast
majority of women are not equipped for combat emotionally or physically. And we
do not only do women an injustice; we do the men an injustice. Instead of
concentrating on the enemy, they'd [men would] have to be watching out for the
welfare of the little lady here." -- Rev. Jerry Falwell in 1980
[Jerry Falwell disingenuously over-reached in making those exaggerations
because in the event of another draft, those women who are physically or
mentally unqualified would not be required to serve anyway just as men who are
unqualified physically or mentally would not be required to serve. Falwell is
notorious for injecting the ever-so-prettified but condescending expression,
"the little lady" in reference to all women in order to soften the blow and
sting of his beliefs which follow thereafter, underscoring their lowly status
dictated by God to womankind, as per Falwell's Southern Baptist interpretation
of the Bible.]
"The feminist agenda is not about equal rights for women. It is about a
socialist, anti-family political movement that encourages women to leave their
husbands, kill their children, practice witchcraft, destroy capitalism and
become lesbians." -- Fundraising letter from Pat Robertson that was an in-kind
contribution to the Iowa Committee to Stop ERA, as reported in the Aug. 23,
1993 Washington Post
"The strategy against the American radical left should be the same as
General Douglas MacArthur employed against the Japanese in the Pacific . . .
blast the individuals out of their power bunkers with hand-to-hand combat. The
battle to regain the soul of America won't be pleasant, but we will win it."
-- Pat Robertson from his Perspectives magazine (April/May 1992)
"The idea that religion and politics don't mix was invented by the Devil to
keep Christians from running their own country." -- Rev. Jerry Falwell
"We have enough votes to run this country. . . and when the people say,
'We've had enough,' we're going to take over!" -- Pat Robertson
"Screw the Buddhists and kill the Muslims!" -- Henry Jordan, South
Carolina board of education & prominent Republican (when another board member
said the displaying of the Ten Commandemtnsin public schools might offend
students of other religions)
"If Christian people work together, they can succeed during this decade in
winning back control of the institutions that have been taken from them over
the past 70 years. Expect confrontations that will be not only unpleasant but
at times physically bloody. . . . This decade will not be for the faint of
heart, but the resolute. Institutions will be plunged into wrenching change. We
will be living through one of the most tumultuous periods of human history.
When it is over, I am convinced God's people will emerge victorious." -- Pat
Robertson's Perspective magazine (Oct/Nov 1992)
"We often hear of the constitutionality mandated separation of Church and
State. . . . Of course, as you know, that phrase appears nowhere in the
Constitution or the Bill of Rights. . . . We do find this phrase in the
constitution of another nation, however . . . that of the U.S.S.R. [the Soviet
Union]." --- Pat Robertson testifying before the Senate Judiciary Committee on
August 18, 1982
[Robertson was lying though: There was NO such phrase in the old Soviet
Union's constitution and never was because Communism did not tolerate the
practice of religion much less any notion about separation between Church and
State. Since religion was outlawed anyway there, there was no reason for any
phrases about it in their constitution. (Duhhhhh!)]
" 'Hate the Sin, Love the Sinner.' You say you're supposed to be nice to
the Episcopalians and the Presbyterians and the Methodists and this, that, and
the other thing. Nonsense! I don't have to be nice to the spirit of the
Antichrist. I can love the people who hold false opinions, but I don't have to
be nice to them." -- Pat Robertson, on the 700 Club, January 14, 1991.
"The mission of the Christian Coalition is simple. It is to mobilize
Christians -- one precinct at a time, one community at a time -- until once
again we are the head and not the tail, and at the top rather than the bottom
of our political system." -- Pat Robertson in 1991 (Note: By late 1997, USA
Today reported that Christian Coalitioners had captured the leadership posts on
the state and local levels of more than 40 states' Republican parties.)
"We believe that our strategy of engagement inside the halls of Congress .
. . will bear the most fruit." -- Christian Coalition spokesman Arne Owen on
June 10, 1998
"If we have that basic core and we have identified people, this was the
power of every [political] machine that has ever been in politics. You know,
the Tammany Halls and Hague and the Chicago machine and the Byrd machine in
Virginia and all the rest of them. . . . I have seen a steamroller of
liberalism trying to crush faith out of our life. It's all under the rubric of
'separation of church and state,' and you know that's a distortion of what the
framers of the Constitution intended. They never intended to take God out of
the public life in America. These people have used that to beat us up and take
us out of any kind of voice in our society.
"Now is the time to get back in and say we deserve the same privileges as
everybody else. Christians are not second-class citizens; we're going to fight
for our rights. And if we have to get a constitutional amendment to do it,
we'll do it. It's not that hard once you get the Congress to vote. We just tell
these guys, 'Look, we put you in power in 1994, and we want you to deliver.
We're tired of temporizing (compromising). Don't give us all this stuff about
'(You've) got a different agenda.' This IS your agenda. *This* is what you're
going to do this year. And we're going to hold your feet to the fire while you
do it!'. . . .
"We're going to say, 'Gentlemen, it's time. You know, our time has come.
This is what we want and we're going to demand it.' I think we've been far too
reluctant. I've been the good guy, always. 'Oh, yeah, whatever.' We want to be
team players. 'Well, sure, yeah.' But it's time for *US* to start leading the
team!"
-- Pat Robertson confirming the hidden political-machine agenda
behind his Christian Coalition organization in his secret
behind-closed-doors speech to select members of the Christian
Coalition at the Atlanta "Road to Victory '97" Christian Coalition
conference on Saturday, Sept. 13, 1997
________________________________________
For the flip side of the issue, check out the companion post entitled
"Americans AGAINST Conversion of USA into a Theocracy."
Not a Republican
news:20010106093322...@ng-cb1.aol.com...
Glad you could insert some actual material in there outside your flaming
cut-and-paste exercises. Give your clipboard a rest.
Your post, like all the others, is at once strawman troll, fallacy (I knew
you'd like that word, girlfriend), and extremely insightful as to the
twisted mentality of the religious left.
BTW, interesting that you would 'come out' attacking the Golden Rule.
That's truly expository.
Nevertheless, the sentiment expressed by Pres-elect Bush is precisely what a
good society should believe, that as long as you decide to act in a
peaceable manner and adhere to a basic standard of social uprightness,
America is a haven for both you and your religion.
Your statement indicates you would attack any public expression of a
sympathy you can trace to your most hated religion, one which doctrine
disapproves of what you do with members of the same sex.
What the religious left believes is that any standard of morality is unfit
to be part and parcel of the social contract if it can be shown to be part
of Christian doctrine--not just 'religious' doctrine, but ONE RELIGION IN
PARTICULAR that they have come to hate. By their own standards, that's
bigotry.
--
nar
InCognito
>From: "Not a Republican" <nos...@nospam.com>
>Subject: Re: GOPers FOR the Conversion of America into a Theocracy
>Date: Sat, 06 Jan 2001 14:45:46 GMT
So this means the US will beome like Iran, except based on Christianity
instead of Islam, with GWB as the ayatollah.
SATIRICUS
REPUBLICANS
F O R
the CONVERSION of AMERICA
into a THEOCRACY
"We should -- we will -- welcome people of faith into the political process.
It is essential that believers enter the [political] arena. Your involvement in
politics helps determine how well our democracy works. We have finally learned
that government programs cannot solve our problems. Government can hand out
money, but government cannot put hope in our hearts or a sense of purprose in
our lives. Our new faith-based laws have removed government as a roadblock to
people of faith who hear the call." -- Gov. George W. Bush in the September
2000 issue of George magazine
[George W. says people of all faiths are welcome -- Muslims, Hindus,
Buddhists, Catholics -- as long as they believe in "do unto others as you would
have them do unto you." Which happens to be a New Testament scripture from the
Bible. So all faiths are welcome as long as they believe in Christian doctrine.
And what if you don't believe in anything?]
"I don't know that atheists should be considered citizens, nor should they
be considered patriots. This is one nation under God." -- Gov. George W. Bush
____________________________________________
Not a Republican (nos...@nospam.com): "Glad you could insert some actual
material in there outside your flaming cut-and-paste exercises. Give your
clipboard a rest."
I have just begun to cut and paste!
Not a Republican: "Your post, like all the others, is at once strawman troll,
fallacy (I knew you'd like that word, girlfriend), and extremely insightful as
to the twisted mentality of the religious left."
Oh, to you I am "the Religious Left," eh? How narrow-minded of you!
What about the Religious Center?
Not a Republican: "BTW, interesting that you would 'come out' attacking the
Golden Rule. That's truly expository."
False conclusion. That was an addendum text to the quote from the George
magazine article.
Not a Republican: "Nevertheless, the sentiment expressed by Pres-elect Bush is
precisely what a good society should believe, that as long as you decide to act
in a peaceable manner and adhere to a basic standard of social uprightness,
America is a haven for both you and your religion."
Oh, REALLY? Well, let's examine that other connected statement
> "I don't know that atheists should be considered citizens, nor should they
be considered patriots. This is one nation under God." -- Gov. George W. Bush
According to George W. Bush, one can't be a good citizen -- or a citizen of
the U.S. at all -- if one is an atheist. Do *YOU* agree with him about *that*?
According to George W. Bush, one cannot be considered a patriot if one is
an atheist. Do *YOU* agree with him about *that*?
Not a Republican: "Your statement indicates you would attack any public
expression of a sympathy you can trace to your most hated religion, one which
doctrine disapproves of what you do with members of the same sex."
Gee, you didn't see the companion post entitled "Americans AGAINST
Conversion of USA into Theocracy", did ya? If you had, you'd have immediately
known that you had REALLY turned over your own outhouse on yourself with that
outrageous comment.
And what in tarnation do you consider "[my] most hate religion" anyway????
I haven't volunteered in this thread what my religious denomination is.
Not a Republican: "What the religious left believes is that any standard of
morality is unfit
to be part and parcel of the social contract if it can be shown to be part of
Christian doctrine -- not just 'religious' doctrine, but ONE RELIGION IN
PARTICULAR that they have come to hate. By their own standards, that's
bigotry."
And that is pure bullshit. The issue is religion becoming part of the
government which I most vehemently disapprove of in the strongest terms.
But please clarify your viewpoint to us all: Are you FOR the conversion of
the USA into a theocracy? Why or why not?
-- SATIRICUS REX
Not a Republican
news:Who.7221...@Where.com...
So, you read one thing, and spew something else entirely, which just happens
to match perfectly your pet delusion. What a shock, Incogito.
--
nar
Not a Republican
Don't you even attempt to lecture me on demonization.
>
> What about the Religious Center?
Please use standard indentation characters, like practically EVERYONE else.
It's bad enough wading through the crap you churn out without making the
process of locating your attempts at reparte even more laborious.
I can perhaps imagine you being at the center of something (if only for a
disgusting moment), but a religious spectrum is not it.
>
>
> Not a Republican: "BTW, interesting that you would 'come out' attacking
the
> Golden Rule. That's truly expository."
>
> False conclusion. That was an addendum text to the quote from the
George
> magazine article.
BS. You attacked the Golden Rule precisely because it was Christian in
origin and Pres-elect Bush applied it. Don't even try to deny it.
>
> Not a Republican: "Nevertheless, the sentiment expressed by Pres-elect
Bush is
> precisely what a good society should believe, that as long as you decide
to act
> in a peaceable manner and adhere to a basic standard of social
uprightness,
> America is a haven for both you and your religion."
>
> Oh, REALLY? Well, let's examine that other connected statement
>
> > "I don't know that atheists should be considered citizens, nor should
they
> be considered patriots. This is one nation under God." -- Gov. George W.
Bush
>
>
> According to George W. Bush, one can't be a good citizen -- or a
citizen of
> the U.S. at all -- if one is an atheist. Do *YOU* agree with him about
*that*?
>
> According to George W. Bush, one cannot be considered a patriot if one
is
> an atheist. Do *YOU* agree with him about *that*?
This is not a forum on tha panorama of Bush quotes. It is a forum on the
thought as expressed in the quote you posted. So, what you concede as
having happened is that you were caught in a blatant example of religious
bigotry, and now you want to expand the discussion to confuse and conflate.
If an atheist chooses to agree on a basic morality, such that his/her
behavior does not contribute to social pathology, it is not the civic
concern what his/her religion is.
>
>
> Not a Republican: "Your statement indicates you would attack any public
> expression of a sympathy you can trace to your most hated religion, one
which
> doctrine disapproves of what you do with members of the same sex."
>
> Gee, you didn't see the companion post entitled "Americans AGAINST
> Conversion of USA into Theocracy", did ya?
You said "what if you don't believe in anything?" The only ones who have no
belief are under headstones. You seem to believe quite a bit, so don't
crawl into the ground just yet.
I know what you claimed was your intention. Funny how that didn't agree
with the content of your post. What you are in favor of is having your
personal religious morality imposed as law. So, your post was not only
bigotry (by liberals' own definition), it was hypocrisy, as well. It was an
attempt to attack a leader you don't like on the basis of his religion,
which you also don't like.
I am quite against an American theocracy. I am in favor of a large measure
of the morality that happens to be found in many religions as civic policy,
as desired by a majority of the citizenry, respective republican
(constitutional) proscriptions notwithstanding. You just can't understand
that, because it conflicts with your hallucinations.
--
nar
SATIRICUS
its original thread topic. With the posting of this message, I have re-instated
my original thread.]
Excerpt from:
REPUBLICANS
F O R
the CONVERSION of AMERICA
into a THEOCRACY
"We should -- we will -- welcome people of faith into the political process.
It is essential that believers enter the [political] arena. Your involvement in
politics helps determine how well our democracy works. We have finally learned
that government programs cannot solve our problems. Government can hand out
money, but government cannot put hope in our hearts or a sense of purprose in
our lives. Our new faith-based laws have removed government as a roadblock to
people of faith who hear the call." -- Gov. George W. Bush in the September
2000 issue of George magazine
[George W. says people of all faiths are welcome -- Muslims, Hindus,
Buddhists, Catholics -- as long as they believe in "do unto others as you would
have them do unto you." Which happens to be a New Testament scripture from the
Bible. So all faiths are welcome as long as they believe in Christian doctrine.
And what if you don't believe in anything?]
"I don't know that atheists should be considered citizens, nor should they
be considered patriots. This is one nation under God." -- Gov. George W. Bush
____________________________________________
> Not a Republican: "Your post, like all the others, is at once strawman troll,
fallacy (I knew you'd like that word, girlfriend), and extremely insightful as
to the twisted mentality of the religious left."
SATIRICUS REX: "Oh, to you I am 'the Religious Left,' eh? How narrow-minded of
you!"
Not a Republican: "Don't you even attempt to lecture me on demonization."
Indeed, since you excel at it, you don't need any advice from me!
Not a Republican: "Please use standard indentation characters, like practically
EVERYONE else."
Oh, no, I'm not using any such past-quotation-evading devices as that which
would otherwise allow disingenuous people to run away or obfuscate their prior
statements. Nuh-uh. I'll continue to use the Montegue Method of Posting wherein
posters' quotations are cited in both systematic and chronological order in
transcript format with a bare minimum of past-quote >> arrow marcations.
Not a Republican: "It's bad enough wading through the crap you churn out
without making the process of locating your attempts at reparte even more
laborious."
And for you, it's all the more embarrassing since your past quotes come
back to haunt ya all too clearly time and time again.
SATIRICUS REX: "What about the Religious Center?"
Not a Republican: "I can perhaps imagine you being at the center of something
(if only for a disgusting moment), but a religious spectrum is not it."
Of course, you can't since you're a rightwing extremist and apparent John
Ashcroft Republican at that.
> Not a Republican: "BTW, interesting that you would 'come out' attacking the
Golden Rule. That's truly expository."
SATIRICUS REX: "False conclusion. That was an addendum text to the quote from
the George magazine article.
Not a Republican: "BS. You attacked the Golden Rule precisely because it was
Christian in origin and Pres-elect Bush applied it. Don't even try to deny it.
I don't need to deny it. I identified the text as being from the September
2000 George magazine. To be more exact, I found on page 101, second column, 5th
paragraph of the article entitled "How George W. Found God" by Aaron Latham.
And who is "Aaron Latham"?
Excerpt from page 18, the Contributors page of the September 2000 issue of
George magazine:
AARON LATHAM: ("How George W. Found God," page 78) gained a new
understanding of Bush's deep spiritual convictions after speaking with the
ministers, staffers and friends with whom the governor has shared his beliefs.
"All candidates profess to be religious," says the author, who, like George W.,
is Methodist. "But he is the real thing." Latham, the song of a West Texas high
school football coach, wrote the screenplay for the movie "Urban Cowboy." His
novel "Code of the West" will be published by Simon & Schuster this spring.
_________________________________________
> Not a Republican: "Nevertheless, the sentiment expressed by Pres-elect Bush
is precisely what a good society should believe, that as long as you decide to
act in a peaceable manner and adhere to a basic standard of social uprightness,
America is a haven for both you and your religion."
SATIRICUS REX: "Oh, REALLY? Well, let's examine that other connected
statement:
> "I don't know that atheists should be considered citizens,
> nor should they be considered patriots. This is one nation
> under God." -- Gov. George W. Bush
SATIRICUS REX: "According to George W. Bush, one can't be a good citizen -- or
a citizen of the U.S. at all -- if one is an atheist. Do *YOU* agree with him
about *that*?
"According to George W. Bush, one cannot be considered a patriot if one is
an atheist. Do *YOU* agree with him about *that*?"
Not a Republican: "This is not a forum on tha panorama of Bush quotes. It is a
forum on the thought as expressed in the quote you posted."
What an evasively false issue you raise! Since I only cited that one quote
for follow-up examination on its own merits, it was understood that I was
examining the thought behind only that particular Bush quote.
Not a Republican: "So, what you concede as having happened is that you were
caught in a blatant example of religious bigotry, and now you want to expand
the discussion to confuse and conflate."
And yet, you offer nothing of substance to back up that baseless
allegation. And quite frankly, based on your prior rebuttals to me, I can't say
that I'm all that surprised.
Not a Republican: "If an atheist chooses to agree on a basic morality, such
that his/her behavior does not contribute to social pathology, it is not the
civic concern what his/her religion is."
False issue. Even if an atheist agreed to a basic morality that didn't
infringe upon his remaining an atheist, the sanction of the Bush quote indicts
him negatively for his remaining an atheist just the same, even going so far as
to deny him citizenship and to question his patriotism. Indeed, Bush
underscored that assertion by saying that America is "one nation under God."
> "I don't know that atheists should be considered citizens,
> nor should they be considered patriots. This is one nation
> under God." -- Gov. George W. Bush
Moreover, even Billy Graham disagrees with that notion and said so back in
1997 on both ABC's 20/20 and CNN's Larry King Live. Rev. Graham said he
believed that America was a pluralistic nation of many faiths, NOT a "Christian
nation" per se.
Therefore, Not a Republican, henceforth, when you dodge a direct question of
mine, I'm going to go back and insert the response which I myself infer is best
implied by your silence on the matter. So again, I repeat my exact questions
about that Bush quote above which you so disingenuously dodged:
According to George W. Bush, one can't be a good citizen -- or a citizen of
the U.S. at all -- if one is an atheist. Do *YOU* agree with him about *that*?
According to George W. Bush, one cannot be considered a patriot if one is
an atheist. Do *YOU* agree with him about *that*?
Well, Not a Republican?
Not a Republican: "Your statement indicates you would attack any public
expression of a sympathy you can trace to your most hated religion, one which
doctrine disapproves of what you do with members of the same sex."
SATIRICUS REX: "Gee, you didn't see the companion post entitled 'Americans
AGAINST Conversion of USA into Theocracy', did ya? If you had, you'd have
immediately known that you had REALLY turned over your own outhouse on yourself
with that outrageous comment.
Not a Republican: "You said "what if you don't believe in anything?"
No, that was a cited text by Aaron Latham from his George magazine article
which followed the prior Bush quote and prefaced the next quote by Bush about
atheists.
Not a Republican: "The only ones who have no belief are under headstones."
I disagree with that notion. You apparently think of the Dead as inanimate
and in cold storage. You must think that their spiritual essence evaporates
into the ether without their intellectual capacities.
I don't.
Not a Republican: "You seem to believe quite a bit, so don't crawl into the
ground just yet."
Far from it. You may, however, be just as amused to learn that I am just as
critical of those atheists who seem to have made a religion of their own
atheism. Those extremists are just the polar opposite of the
theocracy-advocatge extremists of the GOP Religious Right, the flip side of the
coin, so to speak with whom they share an diametrically opposed intolerance of
their own. When caught in a debate between those two type of polar opposites
who share similar levels of intolerance, they tend to make me feel like
Charlton Heston's Taylor character at the end of "Beneath the Planet of the
Apes" caught between the war-mongering and sanctimonious apes and their polar
opposite, the war-in-the-name-of-peace-mongering human mutants.
Figuratively speaking, I just wanna push that button on that dias like
Heston's Taylor did and be done with them both.
Not a Republican: "I know what you claimed was your intention. Funny how that
didn't agree with the content of your post. What you are in favor of is having
your personal religious morality imposed as law. So, your post was not only
bigotry (by liberals' own definition), it was hypocrisy, as well. It was an
attempt to attack a leader you don't like on the basis of his religion, which
you also don't like."
Because of the outrageously unqualified allegations you've hurled my way in
the paragraph above, I am more inclined to doubt your response to my question
below. Indeed, you've fallen through the floor of your own outhouse with those
unqualified notions.
Moreover, since the entire Bush Family has profited politically and
financially by indulging the odiously anti-Christian likes of the Rev. Sun
Myung Moon, cult leader of the Unification Church mind-control cult, better
known as the Moonies, I am not edified by your outrageous comments above,
especially since the Bushes have taken millions of dollars in blood money from
Moon who claims he's "the Messiah and Perfect Father of all Humankind sent by
God to complete the mission that his predecessor, Jesus Christ, failed(!) to
accomplish, to establish the 'Perfect Family." Indeed, it is blood money since
it was earned by brainwashed Moonie disciples practically living in the streets
and working in the cult's businesses.
(Nope, that money doesn't come from Rev. Moon's Washington Times, which
hasn't ever turned a profit in all its 19 years of existence and must depend on
solubility from the monies earned by the panhandling brain-washed Moonie
disciples.)
> Not a Republican: "What the religious left believes is that any standard of
morality is unfit to be part and parcel of the social contract if it can be
shown to be part of Christian doctrine -- not just 'religious' doctrine, but
ONE RELIGION IN PARTICULAR that they have come to hate. By their own
standards, that's bigotry."
SATIRICUS REX: "And that is pure bullshit. The issue is religion becoming part
of the government which I most vehemently disapprove of in the strongest terms.
But please clarify your viewpoint to us all: Are you FOR the conversion of
the USA into a theocracy? Why or why not?"
Not a Republican: "I am quite against an American theocracy. I am in favor of a
large measure of the morality that happens to be found in many religions as
civic policy, as desired by a majority of the citizenry, respective republican
(constitutional) proscriptions notwithstanding."
Which morality are you talking about? Which religions? And what in
tarnation do you mean exactly by "respective republican (constitutional)
proscriptions notwithstanding"?
Not a Republican: "You just can't understand that, because it conflicts with
your hallucinations."
"Hallucinations"???? Since I subscribe to my own hybrid of Gnostic
Christianity and Zorastrianism (the religous beliefs of the Biblical magi), a
thinking Christian's ideology ("Gnostic" comes from "gnosis," meaning
"knowledge), I am not aware of any use of hallucinogens by Gnostic Christians
or the followers of Zoroaster (much less the Biblical magi). [For more
information, check out the book entitled "The Gnostic Gospels" by Elaine Pagels
(1979, Vintage Books).
I *am* aware, however, that some sects of ancient Essene Jews and
Christians in Israel might have used hallucinogenic substances for mystic
exploration and meditation.
So your comment about me was way, WAY off the mark. Indeed, having been a
lifetime teetolater in all respects, I am not edified by such an assertion.
So again, I repeat my question from before: What in tarnation did you
consider "[my] most hate religion" anyway???? After all, I hadn't volunteered
in this thread what my religious denomination was in those prior posts.
-- SATIRICUS REX