Scotchmen tossing their cabers less and less

[RH]

Note: Unsurprising as virtually everything about "traditional Scotch"
culture is bogus, the kilt having been invented by an Englishman and
the absurd clan tartans by Walter Scott to amuse Prinny. Seee Trevor-
Roper's The Invention of Scotland . RH

http://www.scotsman.com/news/scottish-news/edinburgh-east-fife/highland_games_in_losing_battle_for_survival_1_1975526

Highland Games in losing battle for survival


Highland Games are in steep decline



By John Ross
Published on Sunday 20 November 2011 00:00



WITH their colourful displays of strength, athleticism, piping and
dancing, Highland Games are still popular tourist attractions and
community focal points across Scotland.


But the first national study into the culturally-rich events has found
the games are closing down at an increasing rate and that organisers
are battling for their survival.

A three-year study entitled Scotland’s Highland Games: Challenges in
an Ageing World, found the number of events has declined from more
than 200 in the 1940s to just 90 today.

And the rate of closure has accelerated with 25 events – including the
Caithness, Beauly, Dingwall, Elgin and Stirling Highland Games –
ceasing to exist in the past decade.

[sutartsorric]

On Nov 20, 8:41 am, RH <anywhere...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Note: Unsurprising as virtually everything about "traditional Scotch"
> culture is bogus, the kilt having been invented by an Englishman and
> the absurd clan tartans by Walter Scott to amuse Prinny. Seee Trevor-
> Roper's The Invention of Scotland . RH
>

> http://www.scotsman.com/news/scottish-news/edinburgh-east-fife/highla...

>
> Highland Games in losing battle for survival
>
> Highland Games are in steep decline
>
>  By John Ross
> Published on Sunday 20 November 2011 00:00
>
> WITH their colourful displays of strength, athleticism, piping and
> dancing, Highland Games are still popular tourist attractions and
> community focal points across Scotland.
>
> But the first national study into the culturally-rich events has found
> the games are closing down at an increasing rate and that organisers
> are battling for their survival.
>
> A three-year study entitled Scotland’s Highland Games: Challenges in
> an Ageing World, found the number of events has declined from more
> than 200 in the 1940s to just 90 today.
>
> And the rate of closure has accelerated with 25 events – including the
> Caithness, Beauly, Dingwall, Elgin and Stirling Highland Games –
> ceasing to exist in the past decade.

The curse of deep fried Sunday roast dinners and 100% alcoholic
bevvies has finally caught up with the (caber) tossers.

I expect they will re-invent something similar but on ice, as they
usually do, in order that they can be world champions at it.

[Magnus]

RH <anywh...@gmail.com> wrote in
news:edc01a9a-0646-4d2c...@4g2000yqu.googlegroups.com:

> Note: Unsurprising as virtually everything about "traditional Scotch"
> culture is bogus, the kilt having been invented by an Englishman and
> the absurd clan tartans by Walter Scott to amuse Prinny. Seee Trevor-
> Roper's The Invention of Scotland . RH
>

Presumably prancing around in a smock and waving bells and hankies around
is going from strength to strength, along with English tennis success.

[AlanG]

On Sun, 20 Nov 2011 00:41:28 -0800 (PST), RH <anywh...@gmail.com>
wrote:

HAppening all over the UK
You can probably ascribe that to the increasing costs in compulsory
insurance and the need for expensive permits from local authorities
plus the protection racket of the local police who will object unless
they get a cut of the proceeds

[Akins of that Ilk]

On Nov 20, 2:41 am, RH <anywhere...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Note: Unsurprising as virtually everything about "traditional Scotch"
> culture is bogus, the kilt having been invented by an Englishman and
> the absurd clan tartans by Walter Scott to amuse Prinny. Seee Trevor-
> Roper's The Invention of Scotland . RH
>

For the record, Sir Walter was dismissive of the idea of clan tartans,
writing in 1829, the "idea of distinguishing the clans by their
tartans is but a fashion of modern date." The concept of named tartan
"setts" or patterns of a specific design serving to differentiate a
particular Scottish clan or family is indeed of comparatively recent
origin, having evolved since the latter half of the 18th century when
certain distinctive tartan patterns were first adopted by Scottish
military regiments, often named after their founders, such as the
Gordon Highlanders, the Fraser Highlanders, the Cameron Highlanders,
etc. These regiments used tartans based on the original "Government
tartan" worn by the Black Watch or 42nd Highland Regiment, with the
addition of distinctively colored stripes which served to distinguish
the tartans worn by one regiment from the others. The government
contractor who supplied tartan cloth to the Scottish military was a
firm known as William Wilson & Sons of Bannockburn, Stirlingshire, who
held the monopoly on the tartan trade during much of the early 19th
century. In addition to naming tartan patterns after military
regiments such as the Gordons, the Frasers, the Camerons, etc.,
Wilsons' expanded this practice to include tartan patterns named after
Scottish clans, families, locations, historical and royal personages,
etc.

The oldest known surviving fragment of tartan to be found in Britain
was discovered in the Scottish Lowlands. Unearthed inside a clay pot
containing more than 2000 Roman era silver coins dating to the 3rd
century A.D., this ancient piece of tartan was found in Falkirk,
Stirlingshire. The oldest known tartan fragments discovered in all of
Europe were found outside of Scotland itself, among artifacts
belonging to Gallic tribes located in what is now Salzburg, Austria,
which was inhabited by the Gauls between 400 B.C. and 100 B.C. By the
18th century tartan was being commercially produced on a large-scale
basis in the Scottish Lowlands by firms such as Wilsons of
Bannockburn, who held the monopoly for tartan cloth supplied to the
Scottish military regiments as part of their uniforms, and it is known
that during the era of the Jacobite rebellions, many Lowlanders who
supported the House of Stuart wore tartan, such as Sir Robert
Dalrymple of Castleton, who appears in a portrait dated 1720 dressed
in a robe of tartan.

According to Ivan Baillie of Aberiachan, writing in 1768, the style of
kilt recognized today as the quintessential form of Scottish attire
"is rather of late than ancient usage" and was worn by both Lowland as
well as Highland Scots: "this piece of dress....was in the Gaelic
termed felie-beg....and in our Scots termed little kilt; and it was
found so handy and convenient, that, in the shortest space, the use of
it became frequent in all the Highland Countries, and in many of our
northern Low Countries also." As the Scots began to venture overseas,
the kilt went with them as a part of their everyday dress. It is known
to have been worn in America by the Scots who settled in colonial
Georgia under Governor James Oglethorpe in 1735.

[Bryn Fraser]

On Nov 20, 11:28 am, Akins of that Ilk <the_akins_of_ak...@yahoo.com>
wrote:

What does Null DYS 439 signify?

[Akins of that Ilk]

> What does Null DYS 439 signify?- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

"null439" is a term used for when Family Tree DNA is unable to obtain
a value for the marker DYS439 due a harmless SNP mutation (called "L1"
or "S26") at position 13025258 of the Y chromosome. All males with a
null439 SNP descend from a common ancestor who lived within the last
5000 years. All males with L1/S26 also have the SNP "S21" (also known
as "U106") which defines the R1b1a2a1a1a5b subclade of R1b according
to the 2011 ISOGG Y0DNA Haplogroup Tree.

[Bryn Fraser]

On Nov 20, 2:44 pm, Akins of that Ilk <the_akins_of_ak...@yahoo.com>

Thanks for that. I knew you would know..

[Akins of that Ilk]

> Thanks for that. I knew you would know..- Hide quoted text -

>
> - Show quoted text -

Actually I didn't, just googled it ;-)

[Akins of that Ilk]

> Thanks for that. I knew you would know..- Hide quoted text -

>
> - Show quoted text -

By the way, as a Fraser, you might find this to be interesting in
regard to a possible origin of the Fraser tartan.

An entry in the 1819 Key Pattern Book of William Wilsons of
Bannockburn (weavers) reads "To make the band or musicians Plaids you
have only to put Scarlet in place of the Black in the Sergts Plaids."
The resulting tartan looked like this: http://www.tartanregister.gov.uk/tartanDetails.aspx?ref=278

Compare this with Wilson's 1820 Pattern Fraser tartan:
http://www.tartanregister.gov.uk/tartanDetails.aspx?ref=1249

And the more so-called "Fraser Highlanders" tartan worn by modern-day
reenactors as a hypothisised reconstruction of what the original
Fraser Highlanders might have worn as their regimental tartan.

My theory is that the original Fraser Highlander's regiment wore the
Government tartan bandsman's plaid with "Scarlet in place of the Black
in the Sergts Plaids" as per Wilson's note's and this was the basis of
the Fraser tartan.

The more common Fraser "clan tartan" http://www.tartanregister.gov.uk/tartanDetails.aspx?ref=1247
which was designed by the Sobieski-Stuart brothers was based on the
aforementioned government bandsman's tartan which was the Black Watch
tartan with red in place of the black.

[Bryn Fraser]

On Nov 20, 3:18 pm, Akins of that Ilk <the_akins_of_ak...@yahoo.com>

I would agree there.

[HardySpicer]

On Nov 21, 3:44 am, Akins of that Ilk <the_akins_of_ak...@yahoo.com>
wrote:

> On Nov 20, 5:58 am, Bryn Fraser...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Nov 20, 11:28 am, Akins of that Ilk <the_akins_of_ak...@yahoo.com>
> > wrote:
>

> > > was discovered in the Scottish Lowlands. Unearthed inside a clay pot> > containing more than 2000Roman era silver coins dating to the 3rd

> > > century A.D., this ancient piece of tartan was found in Falkirk,
> > > Stirlingshire.  The oldest known tartan fragments discovered in all of
> > > Europe were found outside of Scotland itself, among artifacts

> > > belonging to Gallic tribes located in what is now Salzburg, Austria,> > which was inhabited by the Gauls between 400B.C. and 100B.C.  By the

> > > 18th century tartan was being commercially produced on a large-scale
> > > basis in the Scottish Lowlands by firms such as Wilsons of
> > > Bannockburn, who held the monopoly for tartan cloth supplied to the
> > > Scottish military regiments as part of their uniforms, and it is known
> > > that during the era of the Jacobite rebellions, many Lowlanders who
> > > supported the House of Stuart wore tartan, such as Sir Robert> > Dalrymple of Castleton, who appears in a portrait dated 1720dressed
> > > in a robe of tartan.
>
> > > According to Ivan Baillie of Aberiachan, writing in 1768, the style of
> > > kilt recognized today as the quintessential form of Scottish attire
> > > "is rather of late than ancient usage" and was worn by both Lowland as
> > > well as Highland Scots: "this piece of dress....was in the Gaelic
> > > termed felie-beg....and in our Scots termed little kilt; and it was
> > > found so handy and convenient, that, in the shortest space, the use of
> > > it became frequent in all the Highland Countries, and in many of our
> > > northern Low Countries also."  As the Scots began to venture overseas,
> > > the kilt went with them as a part of their everyday dress. It is known
> > > to have been worn in America by the Scots who settled in colonial
> > > Georgia under Governor James Oglethorpe in 1735.
>
> > What does Null DYS 439 signify?- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> "null439" is a term used for when Family Tree DNA is unable to obtain
> a value for the marker DYS439 due a harmless SNP mutation (called "L1"or "S26") at position 13025258 of the Y chromosome. All males with a

> null439 SNP descend from a common ancestor who lived within the last5000years. All males with L1/S26 also have the SNP "S21" (also knownas "U106") which defines the R1b1a2a1a1a5b subclade of R1b accordingto the 2011 ISOGG Y0DNA Haplogroup Tree.

Wow! so you can be genetically an SNP supporter from your genes!

[Akins of that Ilk]

> Wow! so you can be genetically an SNP supporter from your genes!- Hide quoted text -

>
> - Show quoted text -

In terms of genetics, SNP mean "single nucleotide polymorphism";
however withn the R1b haplotype, there is a genetic sub-clade known
as the "Northwest-Irish/Lowland Scottish" subclade, which many Scots
and Irish people belong to.

[sutartsorric]

On Nov 20, 10:24 am, Magnus <Yourn...@your.biz> wrote:

And how many Championships do you see this Morris happening, compared
with the Scotch tossers?

Can you imagine the Westminster Morris Dancer competition?

[Akins of that Ilk]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hSrwLecZwyk

[Akins of that Ilk]

Interestingly enough, in genetic surname studies conducted in
Scotland, people bearing the Salmond surname, descended from John
Salmond (b. 1752 in Edinburgh) tested as belonging to the Semitic J2
haplotype; meaning that they are likely of Jewish descent.

http://www.familytreedna.com/public/SalmonDNAProject/default.aspx?section=ymap

[MCP]

"Akins of that Ilk" <the_akins...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:79567350-f7fb-4f4b...@i8g2000vbh.googlegroups.com...

What a bunch of fairies! :-)

[GM]

On Nov 20, 7:16 pm, "MCP" <gf010w5...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
> "Akins of that Ilk" <the_akins_of_ak...@yahoo.com> wrote in messagenews:79567350-f7fb-4f4b...@i8g2000vbh.googlegroups.com...

Well - it is part of the cultural heritage of England and, as such,
has its place.

GMc

[Akins of that Ilk]

On Nov 20, 12:16 pm, "MCP" <gf010w5...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
> "Akins of that Ilk" <the_akins_of_ak...@yahoo.com> wrote in messagenews:79567350-f7fb-4f4b...@i8g2000vbh.googlegroups.com...

> What a bunch of fairies! :-)- Hide quoted text -

>
> - Show quoted text -

Those are positively manly compared to this group:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ewxbHWfQrWA&feature=related

[RH]

On Nov 20, 5:55 pm, Akins of that Ilk <the_akins_of_ak...@yahoo.com>

There is no such thing as a harmless SNP mutation or indeed any other
trait or behaviour which the creatures exhibit. RH

[Paul C]

The Highland Games, De Coubertin's inspiration for the modern
Olympics.

[Akins of that Ilk]

On Nov 20, 3:22 pm, Paul C <hoddles...@gmail.com> wrote:
> The Highland Games, De Coubertin's inspiration for the modern
> Olympics.

In the United States we have Highland Games in probably every state in
the country; however the athletic events are never the main
attraction. Here pipe bands, clan tents and vendors are the major
attention getters. The athletic competions go on, but only a few
people, outside of the competitors, take much notice of the tossing of
hammers, cabers and sheafs.

[RH]

On Nov 20, 9:22 pm, Paul C <hoddles...@gmail.com> wrote:
> The Highland Games, De Coubertin's inspiration for the modern
> Olympics.

Pure fantasy. It was the Much Wenlock games in Shropshire. RH

[GM]

No it wasn't.

GMc

[Farmer Giles]

"GM" <g-...@hotmail.co.uk> wrote in message
news:864e31c2-9eeb-4964...@a16g2000yqk.googlegroups.com...

-----------------------

I live in Shropshire, and I think it was - Much Wenlock certainly claim it,
and have done for a long time. On what evidence do you dispute their claim?

[GM]

On Nov 21, 10:16 am, "Farmer Giles" <Gi...@nospam.com> wrote:
> "GM" <g...@hotmail.co.uk> wrote in message

Well - RH just posted an assertion with no back up or evidence giving
his reasoning (nothing new there) so I simply replied in a similar
manner. It would be for RH to back up his claim. As far as my point
is concerned you could start with David Websters book "World History
of Highland Games" or if that is difficult to get a hold of try
Wikipedia - in an article about Highland games is a quote "The games
are claimed to have influenced Baron Pierre de Coubertin when he was
planning the revival of the Olympic Games. De Coubertin saw a display
of Highland games at the Paris Exhibition of 1889." There was also an
article in The Times last year entitled "Highland Games were the Model
for the Modern Olympics" which you will find online (but you need to
pay now)

There's loads more on the web if you want to look for it.

It is probably correct to say that De Coubertin was influenced by a
number of external factors in his drive to establish the modern
Olympics - not least the French defeat in the Franco - Prussian war.

GMc

[conway caine]

"RH" wrote in message
news:edc01a9a-0646-4d2c...@4g2000yqu.googlegroups.com...

Note: Unsurprising as virtually everything about "traditional Scotch"
culture is bogus, the kilt having been invented by an Englishman and
the absurd clan tartans by Walter Scott to amuse Prinny. Seee Trevor-
Roper's The Invention of Scotland . RH

http://www.scotsman.com/news/scottish-news/edinburgh-east-fife/highland_games_in_losing_battle_for_survival_1_1975526

Highland Games in losing battle for survival


Highland Games are in steep decline

**Perhaps so. Perhaps not.
But comfort your stout *nglish heart with this thought.
The games are growing and prospering here in America.

[RH]

Amusing that fantasy Celts are so very thick and ignorant: .

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/olympics/8594448/London-2012-Olympics-Much-Wenlock-the-birthplace-of-the-modern-Olympics.html

There aren't any global sponsors, broadcast hoardings, "look" of the
city or special Olympic lanes here. Yet this undulating field, in this
quaint sleepy town about 130 miles north of London in the Midlands,
was the true birthplace of the modern Olympic Games.


This year will be the town's 125th edition of the Olympian Games – a
concept to devised by the town's doctor and wealthy benefactor William
Penny Brookes back in 1850 to "promote the moral, physical and
intellectual improvement of the inhabitants of the town and
neighbourhood of Wenlock, and especially of the working classes, by
the encouragement of outdoor recreation and by the award of a
prize...".


But Brookes was ahead of his time and he wanted the Games, based on
ancient Olympic ideals, to be international.


He encouraged the Greeks to run with his ideas but it wasn't until the
Frenchman Baron Pierre de Coubertin – the eventual founder of the
Modern Olympics, visited Brookes, on the back of the doctor's
petitioning the government to have compulsory physical education in
the school curriculum, that the concept of a revival of the ancient
Olympics caught on.


De Courbertin, 27, was much inspired by the Wenlock Olympian Games
during his visit in 1890 what with its events like tilting of the
ring, a three mile bicycle race, a120 yards hurdle race, and a one
mile flat race as well as forging a warm friendship with Brookes, then
aged 81.

In letters hanging on display in the Raven Inn in the middle of Much
Wenlock – where the two men met for dinner – are letters that show how
they bounced ideas off each other, ostensibly to have international
competitions.

One issue was the sticky question of professionalism. In
correspondence from de Coubertin to Brookes dated July 20, 1892, de
Coubertin says: "the only trouble we have is with the reference to
professionalism as in the country towns many prizes are given very
often for bicycle races in which our men are sometimes tempted to
compete. Of course we don't allow it."

Another was the rotation of host cities for the Olympic Games. Brookes
wrote on May 22 1894 that the Wenlock Olympian committee would have
"considerable concurrence" with the concept of ''such gatherings shall
be held in rotation in or near capitals of all nations joining the
movement".

Brookes noted '"this has long been a cherished idea of mine as far as
making the Games the centre, but the plan of your Congress, embracing
as it does all nations, is a really superb one and deserving of the
support of all nations".

In 1994 the International Olympic Committee President Juan Antonio
Samaranch visited the grave of Brookes, who died just five months
before the first modern Olympic Games were held in Greece in 1896.

"I came to pay tribute and homage to Dr Brookes who really was the
founder of the Modern Olympic Games," said Samaranch.

RH

[MCP]

"RH" <anywh...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:043da31d-79f2-41b0...@m19g2000yqh.googlegroups.com...

Absolute bullshit, it was the GREEKS who founded the Olympics you ignorant
tosser.....Rabbie thinks the *nglish invented EVERYTHING on this planet what
a Bawheed!

MCP

[RH]

On Nov 21, 2:36 pm, "conway caine" <conwayca...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
> "RH"  wrote in message
>
> news:edc01a9a-0646-4d2c...@4g2000yqu.googlegroups.com...
>
> Note: Unsurprising as virtually everything about "traditional Scotch"
> culture is bogus, the kilt having been invented by an Englishman and
> the absurd clan tartans by Walter Scott to amuse Prinny. Seee Trevor-
> Roper's The Invention of Scotland . RH
>

> http://www.scotsman.com/news/scottish-news/edinburgh-east-fife/highla...

>
> Highland Games in losing battle for survival
>
> Highland Games are in steep decline
>
> **Perhaps so. Perhaps not.
> But comfort your stout *nglish heart with this thought.
> The games are growing and prospering here in America.

Even more bogus then... RH

[Farmer Giles]

"GM" <g-...@hotmail.co.uk> wrote in message

news:f52730eb-7b0a-4020...@n35g2000yqf.googlegroups.com...

On Nov 21, 10:16 am, "Farmer Giles" <Gi...@nospam.com> wrote:
> "GM" <g...@hotmail.co.uk> wrote in message
>
> news:864e31c2-9eeb-4964...@a16g2000yqk.googlegroups.com...
> On Nov 21, 7:28 am, RH <anywhere...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > On Nov 20, 9:22 pm, Paul C <hoddles...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > The Highland Games, De Coubertin's inspiration for the modern
> > > Olympics.
>
> > Pure fantasy. It was the Much Wenlock games in Shropshire. RH
>
> No it wasn't.
> -----------------------
>
> I live in Shropshire, and I think it was - Much Wenlock certainly claim
> it,
> and have done for a long time. On what evidence do you dispute their
> claim?

Well - RH just posted an assertion with no back up or evidence giving
his reasoning (nothing new there) so I simply replied in a similar
manner.

-------------------------------------------------------------
If you were being consistent, you should have replied in a similar manner to
Paul C, he made the original 'assertion' - without any 'back up or
evidence'.

It would be for RH to back up his claim.

-------------------------------------------------

He has done.

As far as my point
is concerned you could start with David Websters book "World History
of Highland Games" or if that is difficult to get a hold of try
Wikipedia - in an article about Highland games is a quote "The games
are claimed to have influenced Baron Pierre de Coubertin when he was
planning the revival of the Olympic Games. De Coubertin saw a display
of Highland games at the Paris Exhibition of 1889." There was also an
article in The Times last year entitled "Highland Games were the Model
for the Modern Olympics" which you will find online (but you need to
pay now)

There's loads more on the web if you want to look for it.

It is probably correct to say that De Coubertin was influenced by a
number of external factors in his drive to establish the modern
Olympics - not least the French defeat in the Franco - Prussian war.

---------------------------------------------------------------------
'Juan Antonio Samaranch, then president of the International Olympic
Committee (IOC), visited Much Wenlock in 1994 and laid a wreath at Brookes'
grave.'

"I came to pay homage and tribute to Dr Brookes, who really was the founder
of the modern Olympic Games."

[Akins of that Ilk]

On Nov 21, 8:36 am, "conway caine" <conwayca...@bellsouth.net> wrote:

> **Perhaps so. Perhaps not.
> But comfort your stout *nglish heart with this thought.
> The games are growing and prospering here in America.

Actually they have been experiencing a decline in number over the past
ten years here in the United States, as well, due in large part to the
negative economy. The number and attendance of Highland Games held in
the United States has steadily decreased since 2001. This isn't the
first time they have done so however, as they experienced a similar
drop off during the years of the Great Depression; followed by a
resurgence in popularity beginning in the 1960's which peaked in the
1990's.

[sutartsorric]

On Nov 21, 3:52 pm, RH <anywhere...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Nov 21, 8:30 am, GM <g...@hotmail.co.uk> wrote:
>
> > On Nov 21, 7:28 am, RH <anywhere...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > On Nov 20, 9:22 pm, Paul C <hoddles...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > The Highland Games, De Coubertin's inspiration for the modern
> > > > Olympics.
>
> > > Pure fantasy. It was the Much Wenlock games in Shropshire. RH
>
> > No it wasn't.
>
> > GMc
>
> Amusing that fantasy Celts are so  very thick and ignorant: .
>

> http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/olympics/8594448/London-2012-Olympic...

I would ask what "tilting of the ring" involves but I am afraid that
the answers might be an affront to my sensitivities (sorry, that was
the best that I could come up with).

[GM]

He hadn't when I replied - he seldom backs up his assertions. He is a
plonker - at least I can debate with you. We don't often agree - but
at least we can have a dialogue.

>
>   As far as my point
> is concerned you could start with David Websters book "World History
> of Highland Games" or if that is difficult to get a hold of try
> Wikipedia - in an article about Highland games is a quote "The games
> are claimed to have influenced Baron Pierre de Coubertin when he was
> planning the revival of the Olympic Games. De Coubertin saw a display
> of Highland games at the Paris Exhibition of 1889."  There was also an
> article in The Times last year entitled "Highland Games were the Model
> for the Modern Olympics" which you will find online (but you need to
> pay now)
>
> There's loads more on the web if you want to look for it.
>
> It is probably correct to say that De Coubertin was influenced by a
> number of external factors in his drive to establish the modern
> Olympics - not least the French defeat in the Franco - Prussian war.
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> 'Juan Antonio Samaranch, then president of the International Olympic
> Committee (IOC), visited Much Wenlock in 1994 and laid a wreath at Brookes'
> grave.'
>
> "I came to pay homage and tribute to Dr Brookes, who really was the founder
> of the modern Olympic Games."

As I said - there were probably a number of influences - I did not say
that Much Wenlock had nothing to do with it. Wenlock games started
way after many Highland Games.

GMc

[Akins of that Ilk]

On Nov 20, 12:07 pm, Akins of that Ilk <the_akins_of_ak...@yahoo.com>
wrote:

> http://www.familytreedna.com/public/SalmonDNAProject/default.aspx?sec...

As a follow up, I came across this photo of Scotland's First Minister
recently:

http://www.scojec.org/news/2007/07xii_fm/meeting.html

Priceless...

[Bryn Fraser]

On Nov 21, 5:47 pm, Akins of that Ilk <the_akins_of_ak...@yahoo.com>

wrote:
> On Nov 20, 12:07 pm, Akins of that Ilk <the_akins_of_ak...@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>
> > Interestingly enough, in genetic surname studies conducted in
> > Scotland, people bearing the Salmond surname, descended from John
> > Salmond (b. 1752 in Edinburgh) tested as belonging to the Semitic J2
> > haplotype; meaning that they are likely of Jewish descent.
>
> >http://www.familytreedna.com/public/SalmonDNAProject/default.aspx?sec...
>

Three instances... Out of...?

[Akins of that Ilk]

Exactly, three instances of genetic tests conducted on Scottish men
bearing the surname Salmond revealing Semitic Y-DNA ancestry in a
country where Jews make up only about 0.01% of the total population; a
pretty significant number.

[Akins of that Ilk]

On Nov 21, 12:20 pm, Akins of that Ilk <the_akins_of_ak...@yahoo.com>

correction, that should have read 0.1%, as there are about 6400 Jews
in Scotland as of 2001 census figures.

[Akins of that Ilk]

On Nov 21, 12:22 pm, soupdragon <m...@privacy.com> wrote:

> ..and confounded by Crusader names.

There are 479 people with the surname Salmond living in the UK as per
current figures

[Bryn Fraser]

On Nov 21, 6:20 pm, Akins of that Ilk <the_akins_of_ak...@yahoo.com>

My Y-DNA fills a entire screen of exact matches on the Stewart pages
and another on the Stewart (Fitz Alan) but does this make me, a humble
Fraser, a Stewart?

If it walks like a duck...

[Akins of that Ilk]

> If it walks like a duck...- Hide quoted text -

>
> - Show quoted text -

I'm not a Stewart either, but have so many (distant) Stewart ancestors
in my family tree that we are probably related many times over.

[Bryn Fraser]

On Nov 21, 7:30 pm, Akins of that Ilk <the_akins_of_ak...@yahoo.com>

I had noted that...

And but for the Null column I previously mentioned 11 Atkins match
me. :-)

Interpret it as a 12 and.....

[Akins of that Ilk]

On Nov 21, 3:03 pm, soupdragon <m...@privacy.com> wrote:

> Akins of that Ilk <the_akins_of_ak...@yahoo.com> wrote innews:6d8effef-ba96-420d...@r28g2000yqj.googlegroups.com:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Nov 21, 12:22 pm, soupdragon <m...@privacy.com> wrote:
> >> Bryn Fraser <brianlovett...@gmail.com> wrote

> >> innews:8edd88f0-672c-4c97-b6
> > 6a-f04f3fe54...@c18g2000yqj.googlegroups.com:

>
> >> > On Nov 21, 5:47 pm, Akins of that Ilk
> >> > <the_akins_of_ak...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >> >> On Nov 20, 12:07 pm, Akins of that Ilk
> >> >> <the_akins_of_ak...@yahoo.com
>
> >> >> wrote:
>
> >> >> > Interestingly enough, in genetic surname studies conducted in
> >> >> > Scotland, people bearing the Salmond surname, descended from
> >> >> > John Salmond (b. 1752 in Edinburgh) tested as belonging to the
> >> >> > Semitic J2 haplotype; meaning that they are likely of Jewish
> >> >> > descent.
>
> >> >> >http://www.familytreedna.com/public/SalmonDNAProject/default.aspx?
> >> >> >sec ...
>
> >> > Three instances... Out of...?
>
> >> ..and confounded by Crusader names.
>
> > There are 479 people with the surname Salmond living in the UK as per
> > current figures
>

> So?- Hide quoted text -

>
> - Show quoted text -

You asked a question of "Three instances.....Out of?" The figure was
provided for quantification, even though only a small fraction of the
479 Salmonds in the UK have undergone genetic analysis.

[Akins of that Ilk]

On Nov 21, 3:00 pm, soupdragon <m...@privacy.com> wrote:

> Oh dear! Logical analysis is not your forte, is it?
> 3 cats are black and white. All black and white animals are cats.- Hide quoted text -

>
> - Show quoted text -

This particular cat wears a kippah when he meets with fellow members
of the Tribe:

http://www.scojec.org/news/2007/07xii_fm/meeting.jpg

http://www.scojec.org/news/2007/07xii_fm/in_synagogue.jpg

[Akins of that Ilk]

> Interpret it as a 12 and.....- Hide quoted text -

>
> - Show quoted text -

Atkins is a different genetic line from Akins. Compare:

http://www.familytreedna.com/public/adkins/default.aspx?section=yresults

http://www.worldfamilies.net/surnames/akins/results

The Atkins/Adkins lineage shows a much higher Y-DNA yeild for the
Germanic I-haplotype, as one would expect for families of English
(Anglo-Saxon) ancestry.

In the results for Akins DNA on the other hand show a complete absence
of I-Haplotype DNA, with the exception of some descendants of the
Aiken family of Fairfield Co., South Carolina. In the majority of the
Akins test subjects, the DNA results returned R1b1b2 DNA, with several
being more precisely defined as R1b1b2a1b5, which is consistant with
our origins in the Northwest Irish/Lowland Scottish genetic subclade.

[Akins of that Ilk]

On Nov 21, 4:45 pm, soupdragon <m...@privacy.com> wrote:

> Akins of that Ilk <the_akins_of_ak...@yahoo.com> wrote innews:22988c55-b509-40e0...@m10g2000vbc.googlegroups.com:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Nov 21, 3:03 pm, soupdragon <m...@privacy.com> wrote:
> >> Akins of that Ilk <the_akins_of_ak...@yahoo.com> wrote
> >> innews:6d8effef-ba

> > 96-420d-a112-acff405df...@r28g2000yqj.googlegroups.com:

> No I didn't. Read it again.- Hide quoted text -

>
> - Show quoted text -

Yes, I see Bryn was the one asking that question. You evidently didn't
realize I was talking to him when you butted into the conversation (as
usual).

[Akins of that Ilk]

On Nov 21, 4:43 pm, soupdragon <m...@privacy.com> wrote:

> Simpson is a Scottish name. O J Simpson is Scottish. If not, why not?

Black people in the United States usually bear the surname of the
White family that owned their ancestors before the Civil War; which is
why one rarely encounters a Black American with an Italian, Polish, or
other southern/eastern European type of surname - there simply weren't
very many people from that part of the world living in slave-holding
areas of the United States before the Civil War. Most slave owners
were of English, Scots, Irish & Welsh descent:

The sixteen largest American slaveholders from the 1860 Slave Census
schedules (in descending order by number of slaves):

Estate of JOSHUA J. WARD, at SC, Georgetown, roll 1235 page 212,
holding 1,130 slaves.

STEPHEN DUNCAN, at MS, Issaquena, roll 598 page 420B, holding 858
slaves.

J. BURNESIDE, at LA, Ascension, roll 427 page 31B, holding 753 slaves.

MEREDITH CALHOUN, at LA, Rapides, roll 430 page 178, holding 709
slaves.

WM. AIKEN, at SC, Colleton, roll 1234 page 1 of Jehossee Island,
holding 700 slaves.

JOHN L. MANNING, at LA, Ascension, roll 427 page 31B, holding 670
slaves.

JOS. A. S. ACKLEN, at LA, West Feliciana, roll 428 page 291, holding
659 slaves.

R. F. W. ALLSTON, at SC, Georgetown, roll 1235 page 120, holding 631
slaves.

JOSEPH BLAKE, at SC, Beaufort, roll 1231, page 89 of Prince William
Parish, holding 575 slaves

JNO. ROBINSON, at MS, Madison, roll 600, page 418, holding 550 slaves.

JERRETT BROWN, at AL, Sumter, roll 35, page 188B, holding 540 slaves.

ARTHUR BLAKE, at SC, Charleston, roll 1232 page 307B, holding 538
slaves.

JNO. J. MIDDLETON, at SC, Beaufort, roll 1231 page 33 of Prince
William Parish, holding 530 slaves.

ELISHA WORTHINGTON, at AR, Chicot, roll 53 page 104, holding 529
slaves.

DANIEL BLAKE, at SC, Colleton, roll 1234 page 103 of St. Bartholomew,
holding 527 slaves.

Estate J. C. JENKINS, at MS, Wilkinson, roll 604 pages 385B and 395,
holding 523 slaves.

J. HARLESTON READ, at SC, Georgetown, roll 1235 page 105, holding 511
slaves.

JNO. BUTLER, at GA, McIntosh, roll 148 page 207, holding 505 slaves.

CHARLES HEYWARD, at SC, Colleton, roll 1234 page 78 of St.
Bartholomew, holding 491 slaves.

[Akins of that Ilk]

On Nov 21, 5:39 pm, soupdragon <m...@privacy.com> wrote:
> Akins of that Ilk <the_akins_of_ak...@yahoo.com> wrote in news:e858b688-
> a4c6-4ade-8a53-428ca911c...@k26g2000yqd.googlegroups.com:

>
> > On Nov 21, 4:43 pm, soupdragon <m...@privacy.com> wrote:
>
> >> Simpson is a Scottish name. O J Simpson is Scottish. If not, why not?
>
> > Black people in the United States usually bear the surname of the
> > White family that owned their ancestors
>

> So some of them are slave names. Adopted in much the same way as Crusader
> names back in those days. Well done. Now extrapolate.

The First Crusade took place some 10 years after the Domesday Book was
compiled in 1086, which meant that most people making use of surnames
in Britain at that time already had them before the era of the
Crusades.

Of course this was about 200 years before the Jews were expelled from
England, an event which saw a good many crossing over the Border to
ply their wares and practice usury in Scotland.

[Akins of that Ilk]

On Nov 21, 4:43 pm, soupdragon <m...@privacy.com> wrote:

> Mm. And George Bush is Japanese by that token
>
> http://blogs.reuters.com/macroscope/2010/11/08/apecs-always-in-fashion/
>
> >http://www.scojec.org/news/2007/07xii_fm/in_synagogue.jpg
>
> Or maybe Chinese..
>
> http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/44/post/obama-nixes-funny-shirts-at-
> asia-pacific-leaders-forum/2011/11/14/gIQA765OKN_blog.html
>
> Or could he be Thai..?
>
> http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/apecs-shirt-
> tradition/2011/11/14/gIQA7EaKLN_gallery.html#photo=7- Hide quoted text -

>
> - Show quoted text -

The difference, of course, is the fact that George Bush doesn't even
remotely look Asian; whereas Alex Salmond....., eh

Compare wee Eck's features with some other well-known members of The
Tribe:

Walter Matthau: http://images.forbes.com/images/2001/04/20/movers_matthau_377x277.jpg

Tom Bosley: http://ewwatchingtv.files.wordpress.com/2010/10/tom-bosley-happy-days_240.jpg

Rick Moranis: http://images.buddytv.com/articles/movies/profiles/rick-moranis.jpg

Peter Lorre: http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_bF-MHpXHQrE/TTeOweu4fbI/AAAAAAAAAR8/EhhwIFjY4aY/s200/t-Peter-Lorre.jpg

Edward G. Robinson: http://www.wearysloth.com/Gallery/ActorsR/14816-20589.jpg

Rodney Dangerfield: http://www.wearysloth.com/Gallery/ActorsD/4144.gif

[RH]

On Nov 21, 4:00 pm, "MCP" <gf010w5...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
> "RH" <anywhere...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:043da31d-79f2-41b0...@m19g2000yqh.googlegroups.com...

> On Nov 21, 8:30 am, GM <g...@hotmail.co.uk> wrote:
>
> > On Nov 21, 7:28 am, RH <anywhere...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > On Nov 20, 9:22 pm, Paul C <hoddles...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > The Highland Games, De Coubertin's inspiration for the modern
> > > > Olympics.
>
> > > Pure fantasy. It was the Much Wenlock games in Shropshire. RH
>
> > No it wasn't.
>

> Absolute bullshit, it was the GREEKS who founded the Olympics you ignorant
> tosser.....Rabbie thinks the *nglish invented EVERYTHING on this planet what
> a Bawheed!
>
> MCP

They were not my words but those of the President of the IOC. Next!
RH

[Akins of that Ilk]

On Nov 22, 4:19 am, soupdragon <m...@privacy.com> wrote:

> Akins of that Ilk <the_akins_of_ak...@yahoo.com> wrote innews:6dd66289-6dca-4eea...@l24g2000yqm.googlegroups.com:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Nov 21, 5:39 pm, soupdragon <m...@privacy.com> wrote:
> >> Akins of that Ilk <the_akins_of_ak...@yahoo.com> wrote in
> >> news:e858b688-
> >> a4c6-4ade-8a53-428ca911c...@k26g2000yqd.googlegroups.com:
>
> >> > On Nov 21, 4:43 pm, soupdragon <m...@privacy.com> wrote:
>
> >> >> Simpson is a Scottish name. O J Simpson is Scottish. If not, why
> >> >> not?
>
> >> > Black people in the United States usually bear the surname of the
> >> > White family that owned their ancestors
>
> >> So some of them are slave names. Adopted in much the same way as
> >> Crusader names back in those days. Well done. Now extrapolate.
>
> > The First Crusade took place some 10 years after the Domesday Book was
> > compiled in 1086, which meant that most people making use of surnames
> > in Britain at that time already had them before the era of the
> > Crusades.
>

> Go learn some history Atkins. Most people using surnames at that time
> were the aristocracy. Surnames like Moore are Crusade names - unless you
> think Bobby Moore was an Arab.
>
> 'In England the surname may also have developed from use as a nickname
> for a man thought to be unusually wise, and for someone who had played
> the part of King Solomon in a miracle play.'
>
> There are a whole number of reasons why someone would adopt a particular
> surname. I wonder why you choose to focus on only one?- Hide quoted text -

>
> - Show quoted text -

I think you will find surnames like Moor(e)/Muir are locational, i.e.
"dweller on the moor"; the same as surnames like Craig, Burns, Glen,
etc.

[Akins of that Ilk]

On Nov 22, 6:29 am, soupdragon <m...@privacy.com> wrote:

> Akins of that Ilk <the_akins_of_ak...@yahoo.com> wrote innews:1b13f803-9cf0-4d28...@o1g2000vbe.googlegroups.com:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Nov 22, 4:19 am, soupdragon <m...@privacy.com> wrote:
> >> Akins of that Ilk <the_akins_of_ak...@yahoo.com> wrote
> >> innews:6dd66289-6d

> > ca-4eea-a71f-5770dbc15...@l24g2000yqm.googlegroups.com:

>
> >> > On Nov 21, 5:39 pm, soupdragon <m...@privacy.com> wrote:
> >> >> Akins of that Ilk <the_akins_of_ak...@yahoo.com> wrote in
> >> >> news:e858b688-
> >> >> a4c6-4ade-8a53-428ca911c...@k26g2000yqd.googlegroups.com:
>
> >> >> > On Nov 21, 4:43 pm, soupdragon <m...@privacy.com> wrote:
>
> >> >> >> Simpson is a Scottish name. O J Simpson is Scottish. If not,
> >> >> >> why not?
>
> >> >> > Black people in the United States usually bear the surname of
> >> >> > the White family that owned their ancestors
>
> >> >> So some of them are slave names. Adopted in much the same way as
> >> >> Crusader names back in those days. Well done. Now extrapolate.
>
> >> > The First Crusade took place some 10 years after the Domesday Book
> >> > was compiled in 1086, which meant that most people making use of
> >> > surnames in Britain at that time already had them before the era of
> >> > the Crusades.
>
> >> Go learn some history Atkins. Most people using surnames at that time
> >> were the aristocracy. Surnames like Moore are Crusade names - unless
> >> you think Bobby Moore was an Arab.
>
> >> 'In England the surname may also have developed from use as a
> >> nickname for a man thought to be unusually wise, and for someone who
> >> had played the part of King Solomon in a miracle play.'
>
> >> There are a whole number of reasons why someone would adopt a
> >> particular surname. I wonder why you choose to focus on only one?-
> >> Hide quoted text
>

> > I think you will find surnames like Moor(e)/Muir are locational, i.e.
> > "dweller on the moor"; the same as surnames like Craig, Burns, Glen,
> > etc.
>

> I think that you will that, like most things, there are a variety of
> reasons why names were adopted, not just one.- Hide quoted text -

>
> - Show quoted text -

Well, The Guardian seems to be on to him:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2011/oct/26/alex-salmond-secret-apps-chutzpah

[Akins of that Ilk]

On Nov 22, 7:37 am, soupdragon <m...@privacy.com> wrote:

> Akins of that Ilk <the_akins_of_ak...@yahoo.com> wrote innews:7f59312a-7479-4162...@w15g2000yqc.googlegroups.com:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Nov 22, 6:29 am, soupdragon <m...@privacy.com> wrote:
> >> Akins of that Ilk <the_akins_of_ak...@yahoo.com> wrote
> >> innews:1b13f803-9c

> > f0-4d28-8f65-58ac8e8ae...@o1g2000vbe.googlegroups.com:

> Eh? What are you babbling about, Atkins?- Hide quoted text -

>
> - Show quoted text -

It's Akins, no -t-.

Chutzpah. The Guardian says Wee Eck has chutzpah.

A fitting turn of phrase.

[Akins of that Ilk]

On Nov 22, 8:10 am, soupdragon <m...@privacy.com> wrote:

> Akins of that Ilk <the_akins_of_ak...@yahoo.com> wrote innews:a8f857aa-273f-4339...@f29g2000yqa.googlegroups.com:

> > Chutzpah. The Guardian says Wee Eck has chutzpah.
>
> > A fitting turn of phrase.
>

> Why?- Hide quoted text -

You might as well consider it as code for "He's one of us. Nudge,
nudge, wink, wink; say nothing more."

"Chutzpah is the quality of audacity, for good or for bad, but it is
generally used negatively. The Yiddish word derives from the Hebrew
word ḥuṣpâ (חֻצְפָּה), meaning "insolence", "audacity".

[GM]

On Nov 22, 10:19 am, soupdragon <m...@privacy.com> wrote:

> Akins of that Ilk <the_akins_of_ak...@yahoo.com> wrote innews:6dd66289-6dca-4eea...@l24g2000yqm.googlegroups.com:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Nov 21, 5:39 pm, soupdragon <m...@privacy.com> wrote:
> >> Akins of that Ilk <the_akins_of_ak...@yahoo.com> wrote in
> >> news:e858b688-
> >> a4c6-4ade-8a53-428ca911c...@k26g2000yqd.googlegroups.com:
>
> >> > On Nov 21, 4:43 pm, soupdragon <m...@privacy.com> wrote:
>
> >> >> Simpson is a Scottish name. O J Simpson is Scottish. If not, why
> >> >> not?
>
> >> > Black people in the United States usually bear the surname of the
> >> > White family that owned their ancestors
>
> >> So some of them are slave names. Adopted in much the same way as
> >> Crusader names back in those days. Well done. Now extrapolate.
>
> > The First Crusade took place some 10 years after the Domesday Book was
> > compiled in 1086, which meant that most people making use of surnames
> > in Britain at that time already had them before the era of the
> > Crusades.
>

> Go learn some history Atkins. Most people using surnames at that time
> were the aristocracy. Surnames like Moore are Crusade names - unless you
> think Bobby Moore was an Arab.

No way - He played for West Ham United not Dundee United.

GMc

[Akins of that Ilk]

On Nov 22, 8:10 am, soupdragon <m...@privacy.com> wrote:

> Akins of that Ilk <the_akins_of_ak...@yahoo.com> wrote innews:a8f857aa-273f-4339...@f29g2000yqa.googlegroups.com:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Nov 22, 7:37 am, soupdragon <m...@privacy.com> wrote:
> >> Akins of that Ilk <the_akins_of_ak...@yahoo.com> wrote
> >> innews:7f59312a-74

> > 79-4162-b9c3-e3b9609dd...@w15g2000yqc.googlegroups.com:

> > It's Akins, no -t-.
>

> Atkins, Akins, Aiken, Aitken - all the same thing.

Actually, no.

Atkins is the same as Adkins, the -d- having been sharpened to a -t-
by the Northern dialect.

Akins is the same as Eakins, the silent E- having been dropped as it
isn't pronounced.

[conway caine]

"RH" wrote in message
news:75a41fa3-0c1f-48be...@gi1g2000vbb.googlegroups.com...

On Nov 21, 2:36 pm, "conway caine" <conwayca...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
> "RH" wrote in message
>
> Highland Games in losing battle for survival
>
> Highland Games are in steep decline
>
> **Perhaps so. Perhaps not.
> But comfort your stout *nglish heart with this thought.
> The games are growing and prospering here in America.

Even more bogus then... RH

***Not so.
We are a nation what celebrates heritages.
The Chinese take to the streets in dragon costumes.
The Japanese beat huge drums (much bigger than even Lambegs)
The Latinos, the Irish, even the Germans have their celebrations.
So wherein is the fault if those of Scottish heritage wish to gather up?

[Akins of that Ilk]

On Nov 22, 8:29 am, Akins of that Ilk <the_akins_of_ak...@yahoo.com>
wrote:

See: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ona-RhLfRfc for pronunciation of
the name (E)akins.

[Alan Smaill]

Akins of that Ilk <the_akins...@yahoo.com> writes:

> On Nov 22, 8:10 am, soupdragon <m...@privacy.com> wrote:
>> Akins of that Ilk <the_akins_of_ak...@yahoo.com> wrote innews:a8f857aa-273f-4339...@f29g2000yqa.googlegroups.com:
>
>> > Chutzpah. The Guardian says Wee Eck has chutzpah.
>>
>> > A fitting turn of phrase.
>>
>> Why?- Hide quoted text -
>
> You might as well consider it as code for "He's one of us. Nudge,
> nudge, wink, wink; say nothing more."

*You* might; we don't;
there is no such connotation in British English.

> "Chutzpah is the quality of audacity, for good or for bad, but it is
> generally used negatively. The Yiddish word derives from the Hebrew
> word ḥuṣpâ (חֻצְפָּה), meaning "insolence", "audacity".

Right --
as usual you add 1 and 1 and get 2457806.

--
Alan Smaill

[Akins of that Ilk]

On Nov 22, 8:58 am, "conway caine" <conwayca...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
> "RH"  wrote in message
>
> news:75a41fa3-0c1f-48be...@gi1g2000vbb.googlegroups.com...
>
> On Nov 21, 2:36 pm, "conway caine" <conwayca...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>
> > "RH"  wrote in message
>
> > Highland Games in losing battle for survival
>
> > Highland Games are in steep decline
>
> > **Perhaps so. Perhaps not.
> > But comfort your stout *nglish heart with this thought.
> > The games are growing and prospering here in America.
>
> Even more bogus then... RH
>
> ***Not so.
> We are a nation what celebrates heritages.
> The Chinese take to the streets in dragon costumes.
> The Japanese beat huge drums (much bigger than even Lambegs)
> The Latinos, the Irish, even the Germans have their celebrations.
> So wherein is the fault if those of Scottish heritage wish to gather up?

The denizens of the auld sod often take the erroneous view that their
ethnic identity and heritage is tied directly to the land that they
live on, as if their national identity sprang from the very soil of
the countries that they presently inhabit; seldom realizing that they,
like Americans, Australians, Canadians, New Zealanders and others,
carry their ethnic heritage in their blood, their genes; which exists
within them, irrespective of where they might live or what country
they might make their home in.

[Akins of that Ilk]

On Nov 22, 9:19 am, soupdragon <m...@privacy.com> wrote:

> Akins of that Ilk <the_akins_of_ak...@yahoo.com> wrote innews:77ac5f8b-bcc1-4caa...@x7g2000yqb.googlegroups.com:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Nov 22, 8:10 am, soupdragon <m...@privacy.com> wrote:
> >> Akins of that Ilk <the_akins_of_ak...@yahoo.com> wrote
> >> innews:a8f857aa-27

> > 3f-4339-8f6a-737358cdb...@f29g2000yqa.googlegroups.com:

> Actually yes. Aiken and Aitken are the Scottish form of the English
> names Akin and Atkin. So they are all much the same.- Hide quoted text -

>
> - Show quoted text -

No, that is merely an oft repeated erroneous speculation. The Gaelic
name Eachain (equivalent of the Norse name Haakon) is the origin of
the names Eakin(s), Akin(s), etc.

Aiken may, and in many cases is, a varient of the above; however it is
often conflated with the English names Adkin(s) and Atkin(s); hence
the insertion of the -t- in the variant of Aiken which is Aitken (with
the first syllable pronounced like the word ate or eight). The fact
that the superfolous t is erronously inserted into the name can also
be seen in the name Acheson or Aicheson, which often is spelled
Aitcheson, even though there really should not be a -t- in it.

[Akins of that Ilk]

On Nov 22, 9:28 am, soupdragon <m...@privacy.com> wrote:

> Akins of that Ilk <the_akins_of_ak...@yahoo.com> wrote innews:fd56d357-ad8f-4750...@w3g2000vbw.googlegroups.com:
>
> > On Nov 22, 8:10 am, soupdragon <m...@privacy.com> wrote:
> >> Akins of that Ilk <the_akins_of_ak...@yahoo.com> wrote
> >> innews:a8f857aa-27

> > 3f-4339-8f6a-737358cdb...@f29g2000yqa.googlegroups.com:

>
> >> > Chutzpah. The Guardian says Wee Eck has chutzpah.
>
> >> > A fitting turn of phrase.
>
> >> Why?
>

> > You might as well consider it as code for "He's one of us. Nudge,
> > nudge, wink, wink; say nothing more."
>

> Really? I wouldn't.

>
> > "Chutzpah is the quality of audacity, for good or for bad, but it is
> > generally used negatively. The Yiddish word derives from the Hebrew
> > word ḥuṣpâ (חֻצְפָּה), meaning "insolence", "audacity".
>

> You really are a clown of the first order! But no matter, even if it
> were the case that Salmond was of Jewish ancestry (which you've
> spectacularly failed to show), it matters not one jot. Like
> most true Scots, Salmond aspires to sentiments expressed by Burns
> when it comes to judging people, namely its what they do, not who they are
> that people should be judged by. On that basis Salmond is far more a
> true Scot than you can ever be dressed up in your Brigadoon Buffoonery.

Someone should tell Wee Eek to pull his kilt up a bit so his belly
doesn't hang out of his waistcoat:

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_NE-72ZXux-g/SiyecBgKcZI/AAAAAAAAJmg/Dgh4wXs0Ghw/s400/alex_salmond.jpg

And this hat really doesn't suit him:

http://www.newyorksocialdiary.com/partypictures/2006/04_05_06/images/dressedtokilt/ASalmond_040306_1.jpg

He should stick to wearing his kippah:

http://www.scojec.org/news/2007/07xii_fm/meeting.jpg

[Akins of that Ilk]

On Nov 22, 8:56 am, Alan Smaill <sma...@SPAMinf.ed.ac.uk> wrote:

> Akins of that Ilk <the_akins_of_ak...@yahoo.com> writes:
>
> > On Nov 22, 8:10 am, soupdragon <m...@privacy.com> wrote:
> >> Akins of that Ilk <the_akins_of_ak...@yahoo.com> wrote innews:a8f857aa-273f-4339...@f29g2000yqa.googlegroups.com:
>
> >> > Chutzpah. The Guardian says Wee Eck has chutzpah.
>
> >> > A fitting turn of phrase.
>
> >> Why?- Hide quoted text -
>
> > You might as well consider it as code for "He's one of us. Nudge,
> > nudge, wink, wink; say nothing more."
>
> *You* might; we don't;

Then I would say that you are very naive.

[Alan Smaill]

Akins of that Ilk <the_akins...@yahoo.com> writes:

> On Nov 22, 8:56 am, Alan Smaill <sma...@SPAMinf.ed.ac.uk> wrote:
>> Akins of that Ilk <the_akins_of_ak...@yahoo.com> writes:
>>
>> > On Nov 22, 8:10 am, soupdragon <m...@privacy.com> wrote:
>> >> Akins of that Ilk <the_akins_of_ak...@yahoo.com> wrote

..

>> >> > Chutzpah. The Guardian says Wee Eck has chutzpah.
>>
>> >> > A fitting turn of phrase.
>>
>> >> Why?- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> > You might as well consider it as code for "He's one of us. Nudge,
>> > nudge, wink, wink; say nothing more."
>>
>> *You* might; we don't;
>
> Then I would say that you are very naive.

The report says:

"The Scottish National party brings chutzpah to almost everything it
does."

You no doubt take this also as code.

Enough said.

--
Alan Smaill

[Akins of that Ilk]

On Nov 22, 9:35 am, soupdragon <m...@privacy.com> wrote:

> Akins of that Ilk <the_akins_of_ak...@yahoo.com> wrote innews:2360fce7-8c8c-4e41...@w7g2000yqc.googlegroups.com:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Nov 22, 9:19 am, soupdragon <m...@privacy.com> wrote:
> >> Akins of that Ilk <the_akins_of_ak...@yahoo.com> wrote
> >> innews:77ac5f8b-bc

> > c1-4caa-afa3-7b22c5492...@x7g2000yqb.googlegroups.com:

> So you claim. But given your track record for accuracy and honesty,
> I doubt anyone would believe you.

>
> > The Gaelic
> > name Eachain (equivalent of the Norse name Haakon) is the origin of
> > the names Eakin(s), Akin(s), etc.
>

> More likely the other way around - English surname A[t]kin Gaelicised
> during the Victorian Highland romantic era to give it a tenuous link
> the the Highlands.- Hide quoted text -

>
> - Show quoted text -

Since you don't bear the name yourself, your ignorance on its origins
may be forgiven; however if you look into the earlier records pre-
dating the 19th century, you will find that the names Eakins, Akins,
Aiken, etc. were used interchangably by the Scots who bore them,
particularly in the New World:

See: http://i1038.photobucket.com/albums/a470/the_scotsman1745/Akins%20genealogy%20book/011.jpg

[Akins of that Ilk]

On Nov 22, 10:11 am, soupdragon <m...@privacy.com> wrote:

> Akins of that Ilk <the_akins_of_ak...@yahoo.com> wrote innews:931da035-06e8-4099...@i8g2000vbh.googlegroups.com:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Nov 22, 9:35 am, soupdragon <m...@privacy.com> wrote:
> >> Akins of that Ilk <the_akins_of_ak...@yahoo.com> wrote
> >> innews:2360fce7-8c

> > 8c-4e41-b9f7-a383dd751...@w7g2000yqc.googlegroups.com:

>
> >> >> >> Atkins, Akins, Aiken, Aitken - all the same thing.
>
> >> >> > Actually, no.
>
> >> >> Actually yes. Aiken and Aitken are the Scottish form of the
> >> >> English names Akin and Atkin. So they are all much the same.- Hide
> >> >> quoted text -
>

> >> > No, that is merely an oft repeated erroneous speculation.
>
> >> So you claim. But given your track record for accuracy and honesty,
> >> I doubt anyone would believe you.
>
> >> > The Gaelic
> >> > name Eachain (equivalent of the Norse name Haakon) is the origin of
> >> > the names Eakin(s), Akin(s), etc.
>
> >> More likely the other way around - English surname A[t]kin Gaelicised
> >> during the Victorian Highland romantic era to give it a tenuous link
> >> the the Highlands.- Hide quoted text -
>

> > Since you don't bear the name yourself, your ignorance on its origins
> > may be forgiven;
>

> You don't have to bear a name to know when someone is at it.

>
>  however if you look into the earlier records pre-
>
> > dating the 19th century, you will find that the names Eakins, Akins,
> > Aiken, etc. were used interchangably by the Scots who bore them,
> > particularly in the New World
> > See:
> >http://i1038.photobucket.com/albums/a470/the_scotsman1745/Akins%20genea
> > logy%20book/011.jpg
>

> Did you type this one up on one of the typewriters you stole from
> Walmart?

I've never stolen anything in my life; I merely returned merchandise
that proved defective due to shoddy imported workmanship.

[James]

On Nov 21, 6:10 pm, Akins of that Ilk <the_akins_of_ak...@yahoo.com>
wrote:

> On Nov 21, 4:43 pm, soupdragon <m...@privacy.com> wrote:
>
> > Simpson is a Scottish name. O J Simpson is Scottish. If not, why not?
>
> Black people in the United States usually bear the surname of the

> White family that owned their ancestors before the Civil War; which is
> why one rarely encounters a Black American with an Italian, Polish, or
> other southern/eastern European type of surname - there simply weren't
> very many people from that part of the world living in slave-holding
> areas of the United States before the Civil War. Most slave owners
> were of English, Scots, Irish & Welsh descent:
>
> The sixteen largest American slaveholders from the 1860 Slave Census
> schedules (in descending order by number of slaves):
>
> Estate of JOSHUA J. WARD, at SC, Georgetown, roll 1235 page 212,
> holding 1,130 slaves.
>
> STEPHEN DUNCAN, at MS, Issaquena, roll 598 page 420B, holding 858
> slaves.
>
> J. BURNESIDE, at LA, Ascension, roll 427 page 31B, holding 753 slaves.
>
> MEREDITH CALHOUN, at LA, Rapides, roll 430 page 178, holding 709
> slaves.
>
> WM. AIKEN, at SC, Colleton, roll 1234 page 1 of Jehossee Island,
> holding 700 slaves.
>
> JOHN L. MANNING, at LA, Ascension, roll 427 page 31B, holding 670
> slaves.
>
> JOS. A. S. ACKLEN, at LA, West Feliciana, roll 428 page 291, holding
> 659 slaves.
>
> R. F. W. ALLSTON, at SC, Georgetown, roll 1235 page 120, holding 631
> slaves.
>
> JOSEPH BLAKE, at SC, Beaufort, roll 1231, page 89 of Prince William
> Parish, holding 575 slaves
>
> JNO. ROBINSON, at MS, Madison, roll 600, page 418, holding 550 slaves.
>
> JERRETT BROWN, at AL, Sumter, roll 35, page 188B, holding 540 slaves.
>
> ARTHUR BLAKE, at SC, Charleston, roll 1232 page 307B, holding 538
> slaves.
>
> JNO. J. MIDDLETON, at SC, Beaufort, roll 1231 page 33 of Prince
> William Parish, holding 530 slaves.
>
> ELISHA WORTHINGTON, at AR, Chicot, roll 53 page 104, holding 529
> slaves.
>
> DANIEL BLAKE, at SC, Colleton, roll 1234 page 103 of St. Bartholomew,
> holding 527 slaves.
>
> Estate J. C. JENKINS, at MS, Wilkinson, roll 604 pages 385B and 395,
> holding 523 slaves.
>
> J. HARLESTON READ, at SC, Georgetown, roll 1235 page 105, holding 511
> slaves.
>
> JNO. BUTLER, at GA, McIntosh, roll 148 page 207, holding 505 slaves.
>
> CHARLES HEYWARD, at SC, Colleton, roll 1234 page 78 of St.
> Bartholomew, holding 491 slaves.

I grew up beside the largest native reservation in Canada.

It is interesting how they got their surnames. The Six Nations of the
Iroquois confederacy did roam and hunt in Canada, but before the
American Revolution, were primarily in the upper NY state area. Many
of them started to go to English schools, and picked English surnames,
often from the British officers that they admired. These became more
entrenched when the loyalists among them were forced to leave NY
during the revolution and made their way to Canada. Many of the young
men fought with the British, both in the Revolution and in the War of
1812.

Common Six Nations surnames:
Green(e)
Farmer
Johnson
McNaughton
Brant
Jamieson
General
Montour
Powless
Robertson

[HardySpicer]

On Nov 23, 3:29 am, Akins of that Ilk <the_akins_of_ak...@yahoo.com>
wrote:

Akins come from the English name Atkins.

[Akins of that Ilk]

On Nov 22, 9:54 am, Akins of that Ilk <the_akins_of_ak...@yahoo.com>
wrote:

> See:http://i1038.photobucket.com/albums/a470/the_scotsman1745/Akins%20gen...- Hide quoted text -

>
> - Show quoted text -

And here is an independant collection of data on various branches of
the clan, mainly from early Virginia colonial records dating back to
the 1600's, which shows how the names Akin(s), Eakin(s) and Aiken(s)
were used intechangably, but were never spelled Aiken or Atkins. See:
http://www.southernrootsandshoots.com/AKINS_timeline.htm

[Akins of that Ilk]

> Akins come from the English name Atkins.- Hide quoted text -

No, Atkins comes from the English name Adkins.

Akins comes from the Gaelic name Eakin (Eachann)

[Akins of that Ilk]

On Nov 22, 1:21 pm, soupdragon <m...@privacy.com> wrote:
> soupdragon <m...@privacy.com> wrote innews:Xns9FA5C2D3D...@news.datemas.de:

>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > Akins of that Ilk <the_akins_of_ak...@yahoo.com> wrote in

> >news:23cd7221-e985-4166...@cu3g2000vbb.googlegroups.com:

> > ..typed by you on your stolen Walmart typewriter

>
> >> And here is an independant collection of data on various branches of
> >> the clan, mainly from early Virginia colonial records dating back to
> >> the 1600's, which shows how the names Akin(s), Eakin(s) and Aiken(s)
> >> were used intechangably, but were never spelled Aiken or Atkins. See:
> >>http://www.southernrootsandshoots.com/AKINS_timeline.htm
>

> > Independant? Hmm...
> > Archibald AKINS</b> b. 1710 Scotland, dies in Cecil Co., MD
>
> > Could this be the Archibald Aiken who's will you altered to read as
> > Akins?
>
> From your own website:
>
> Ancestral families from whom I descend include: Akins, Alexander,
> **Atkins**
>
> Whoops!!- Hide quoted text -

>
> - Show quoted text -

Yes, I have Atkins ancestors as well, on a different side of the
family. My mother's father's mother's great-great grandmother was
Abigail Atkins, who married Robert Phillips in 1815 in Bledsoe Co.,
Tennessee. That line has no connection whatsoever with my father's
side of the family.

[Akins of that Ilk]

On Nov 22, 3:13 pm, soupdragon <m...@privacy.com> wrote:

> ..as does Akins as a glottal stop ennunciation.

>
>
>
> > Akins comes from the Gaelic name Eakin (Eachann)
>

> Only to the Brigadoon Brigade. The rest of us know better.

You are welcome to produce documentary evidence showing where any of
my Akins ancestors ever spelled our surname with a -t-. I've never
come across a single instance of there being one.

[Akins of that Ilk]

On Nov 22, 3:13 pm, soupdragon <m...@privacy.com> wrote:
> Akins of that Ilk <the_akins_of_ak...@yahoo.com> wrote innews:6978055e-a96a-4af2-8a8e-

> > Akins comes from the Gaelic name Eakin (Eachann)
>

> Only to the Brigadoon Brigade. The rest of us know better.

There must be a contigent of the Brigadoon Brigade in Canada then:

from: The Dictionary of Canadian Biography:

http://www.biographi.ca/009004-119.01-e.php?id_nbr=6519

"AIKINS (Eakins), JAMES COX, farmer, politician, office holder, and
capitalist; b. 30 March 1823 in Toronto Township, Upper Canada, son of
James Eakins and Ann Cox; brother of William Thomas; m. 5 June 1845
Mary Elizabeth Jane Somerset in Toronto, and they had five daughters
and three sons, including Sir James Albert Manning and William Henry
Beaufort*; d. 6 Aug. 1904 in Toronto.

In 1816 James and Ann Eakins emigrated from County Monaghan (Republic
of Ireland) to Philadelphia. After four years they moved to Toronto
Township, where Eakins took up land about 13 miles west of York
(Toronto). A Presbyterian, he converted to Methodism and made his home
a local centre for worship. He sent his eldest son, James Cox Eakins,
to the Methodist-run Upper Canada Academy (Victoria College) in
Cobourg, from 1840 to 1845. James Sr was a successful farmer and he
accumulated sufficient land to provide his sons with farms. Shortly
after his marriage in 1845, James Cox received a lot in Toronto Gore
Township and began farming on his own. Some time thereafter he changed
the spelling of his surname to Aikins to resemble its pronunciation
more closely."

http://www.biographi.ca/009004-119.01-e.php?&id_nbr=7886

"AIKINS, Sir JAMES ALBERT MANNING, lawyer, politician, and lieutenant
governor; b. 10 Dec. 1851 in Toronto Gore Township, Upper Canada,
second son of James Cox Aikins and Mary Elizabeth Jane Somerset;
brother of William Henry Beaufort; m. 10 Dec. 1884 Mary Bertha McLelan
in Ottawa, and they had two sons; they divorced 9 July 1892; m.
secondly 6 Sept. 1899 Mary French Colby (d. 1931) in Stanstead, Que.,
and they had three daughters, one of whom died shortly after birth; d.
1 March 1929 in Winnipeg and was buried in St John's cemetery.

Of Irish extraction, James Aikins was born and raised on his parents'
farm in Peel County, near Toronto. He was educated in public schools
in Malton (Mississauga) and Brampton before attending Upper Canada
College and the University of Toronto (ba 1875, ma 1876). On
graduating in 1875, he "tried business" in the warehouse of the firm
Macnab and Marsh, but he decided instead to become a student-at-law.
After establishing himself in his profession in Winnipeg, Aikins had
married Mary Bertha, the daughter of Archibald Woodbury McLelan,
federal minister of marine and fisheries. One of their sons, James Cox
(Jamie), died when he was only six; the other, Gordon Harold,
succeeded his father as head of the law firm. The marriage ended in
divorce in 1892. Seven years later he married Mary French Colby, a
granddaughter of Moses French Colby. As well as the family home,
Riverbend, Aikins owned and supervised the operation of a large farm
at Elkhorn, Man. He was an avid outdoorsman, especially enjoying
hunting and golf. To further interest in the arts, he established
scholarships in English at the University of Manitoba and the
University of Toronto and prizes for school choirs at the Manitoba
Music Competition Festival. After his death his son, in his memory,
donated the Aikins Memorial Trophy for senior instrumentalists, which
is still presented at the festival.

To celebrate his 50 years at the Manitoba bar, Aikins gave a banquet
for 450 members of the profession in Manitoba and from across Canada
on 25 Feb. 1929. Congratulatory messages came from around the world. A
sudden heart attack prevented him from attending the festivities, his
condition worsened, and he died just after midnight on 1 March. After
lying in state in the legislative building, he was accorded a state
funeral during which Archbishop Samuel Pritchard Matheson noted that
he would be remembered as "a great and brilliant member of the legal
profession, a magnetic and eloquent public speaker, a great
legislator, a great educationalist, a great philanthropist, and above
all, a great Canadian citizen."

http://www.biographi.ca/009004-119.01-e.php?&id_nbr=5923

"AIKINS, WILLIAM THOMAS, physician and medical educator; b. 5 June
1827 in Toronto Township, Upper Canada, son of James Eakins and Ann
Cox; m. first 7 Oct. 1851 Louisa Adelia Piper (d. 1863), daughter of
Hiram Piper, in Toronto, and they had six children; m. there secondly
4 May 1865 Lydia Ann Piper, sister of Louisa, and they had four
children; d. 24 May 1897 in Toronto.

James and Ann Eakins left their native Ireland in 1816 for
Philadelphia and in 1820 came to Toronto Township. There they raised
six children, of whom William Thomas Aikins was the fourth, the third
of four boys. (The sons would later sign their name Aikins.) A wealthy
farmer and a devout Wesleyan, James in 1843 sent William, as he did
his other sons, to Victoria College, Cobourg.

As a teacher and surgeon Aikins reputedly had few equals throughout
Canada, and even the continent. His impressive teaching style was
grounded in sound advice and frequent practical demonstrations in
classrooms and clinics.....His most significant clinical contribution
was unquestionably his early adoption and ardent advocacy of
antiseptic procedures first advanced in 1867 by Joseph Lister, with
whom Aikins consulted in 1880 during an extended tour of English and
European hospitals.

Through his efforts on the medical board and its successors, Aikins
contributed directly to the professionalization of Ontario medicine
from the 1850s to the 1880s. At his death, however, his colleagues,
former students, and lay and clerical friends chose rather to recall
his brilliance as a surgeon and teacher, his breadth of opinion, his
generosity, and his "sterling Christian character." They also spoke of
his professional and personal modesty, which may explain why the
record of his public utterances is so meagre, particularly after the
1860s."

[Akins of that Ilk]

On Nov 22, 3:51 pm, soupdragon <m...@privacy.com> wrote:

> Akins of that Ilk <the_akins_of_ak...@yahoo.com> wrote innews:0a327603-2837-419c...@x7g2000yqb.googlegroups.com:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Nov 22, 3:13 pm, soupdragon <m...@privacy.com> wrote:
> >> Akins of that Ilk <the_akins_of_ak...@yahoo.com> wrote
> >> innews:6978055e-a9

> > 6a-4af2-8a8e-84c51f044...@s7g2000yqa.googlegroups.com:

>
> >> > On Nov 22, 11:42 am, HardySpicer <gyansor...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >> On Nov 23, 3:29 am, Akins of that Ilk
> >> >> <the_akins_of_ak...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >> >> > Akins is the same as Eakins, the silent E- having been dropped
> >> >> > as it isn't pronounced.
>
> >> >> Akins come from the English name Atkins.- Hide quoted text -
>
> >> > No, Atkins comes from the English name Adkins.
>
> >> ..as does Akins as a glottal stop ennunciation.
>
> >> > Akins comes from the Gaelic name Eakin (Eachann)
>
> >> Only to the Brigadoon Brigade. The rest of us know better.
>
> > You are welcome to produce documentary evidence showing where any of
> > my Akins ancestors ever spelled our surname with a -t-.
>

> From another thread:
>
> >> From your website:

> >> "Ancestral families from whom I descend include: Akins, Alexander,
> >>  **Atkins**"
>
> >> Whoops!!

> > Yes, I have Atkins ancestors as well,
>

>           ----------------
> Who needs 'documentary sources when you yourself admit to it.
>
> Double Whoops!!- Hide quoted text -

>
> - Show quoted text -

The fact that I have ancestors on my mother's side of the family that
bore the surname Atkins has absolutely no bearing on the origin or
etymology of the surname borne by ancestors on my father's side of the
family. We are talking about two completely different and unrelated
lines here. I have Howell ancestors as well as Howle ancestors, but
they aren't related to one another either; two completely different
names belonging to two completely different families, unrelated in any
way.