Re: OT: Off-Topic
Adam
> On Sat, 25 Jun 2011, in the Usenet newsgroup alt.os.linux.mandriva, in article
> <iu66o9$7e1$1...@dont-email.me>, Adam wrote:
[gphoto2 2.4.7 vs. 2.4.11 and newer cameras]
>> Yeah, this is one time where I'll stay with "leave well enough
>> alone".
>
> Using a package manager _should_ eliminate most of the grief. The main
> problem is going to be creating the new binary rpm, not installing or
> reverting if things go bad.
Well, at this point I'm not comfortable with creating an rpm. I
mean, I could if I felt it was important enough, but with gphoto2
now working, I think other things need attention first.
[interleave]
> Excerpted: a screen shot from "Paul Mace Software" "HOPTIMUM"
> shows an AT with a ST251 - at interleaves of 1-8, the transfer times
> were 28 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 - 2:1 gave a 3 second transfer, while 1:1 took
> 28 seconds.
I knew better than to try a 1:1 interleave, as that would have
guaranteed only one sector per revolution. Maybe I should have
wasted the time, just to make the other numbers look better. ;-)
>> So what can we learn from that today? First off, my approach to
>> things like this hasn't changed since then. ;-)
Of course the industry's approach to low-level HD formatting has
changed significantly. I meant that I took a hands-on approach to
finding answers when AFAIK nobody had ever mucked around with
interleave on that HD, instead of just wondering about it -- the
same way I'm probably the only person to have bothered getting
NetZero dialup working under Linux. Also, the phrasing of my more
technical posts doesn't seem to have changed much in the intervening
20+ years.
>> I ended up leaving my data partitions at the default of 8, but
>> reformatting the first partition (resident DOS, overlays, system
>> utilities, frequently-used apps -- all executables) with an interleave
>> of 18.
>
> Wow, that's slow. The controller on the PC-XT (which was slower than
> frozen molasses) was best with a 6:1 interleave.
Well, the default of 8 turned out best for general use. Executables
were a series of blocks, size 0-256 bytes, preceded by a header, so
loading them into (not necessarily contiguous) memory took a little
processing time. I suppose this was to save disk space, so (for
example) a program that required buffers didn't need to include the
buffer space as part of the executable. This also meant patches
could be added to the end of an executable, and whatever code/data
the patches loaded into RAM would overwrite what had originally been
loaded there.
>> Remember how it took about ten minutes to execute the Java
>> code for NetZero? Well, it's not just NetZero. I tried accessing
>> the Java-based chatroom at http://as3chat.com/ and it took my system
>> about nine minutes of churning before its login prompt showed up,
>
> Have you spoken to anyone else using Mandriva trying to connect to
> that site? You have access to a Ubuntu install, don't you? Have you
> tried it there?
I've been assuming that the Java plugin for Firefox/SeaMonkey uses
the same JRE as standalone Java code... I hope that's correct.
Dave Hodgins was kind enough to try that site on his Mageia system
and found it took about 5 to 15 seconds, which sounds reasonable to
me. For one thing, that shows that it's not the Linux JRE in
general that's the cause of my glacial speed there, but something
specific to my system/configuration. The Ubuntu install is at my
parents' house, and I generally visit on Saturdays. I haven't tried
it there yet.
I've tried uninstalling Java and then installing different versions
of it, including the latest directly from the Java website, but they
either take about as long, or don't do anything at all. Something
is strange here and definitely worth looking into. OTOH I don't
consider it urgent, as I don't normally connect via NetZero/Juno
dialup or access the AS3 chat room. I was just temporarily back in
AS3 (alt.support.stop-smoking) to make my usual "quit anniversary"
speech there.
>> And this is using the Sun JRE, which I read is faster than the
>> OpenJDK JRE.
>
> Was this installed as an .rpm package? If so, does 'rpm -V $PACKAGE'
> show any config file changes you can't understand/explain?
Yesterday:
[adam@eris etc]$ rpm -V jre-1.6.0_24-fcs
missing c /etc/.java/.systemPrefs/.system.lock
missing c /etc/.java/.systemPrefs/.systemRootModFile
/var/tmp/rpm-tmp.xQfCoh: line 851: IntegrateWithGNOME: command not found
/var/tmp/rpm-tmp.g09ZWR: line 851: IntegrateWithGNOME: command not found
[adam@eris etc]$
so I used 'touch' to create the two missing files. Now I'm up to:
[adam@eris ~]$ rpm -V jre-1.6.0_26-fcs
/var/tmp/rpm-tmp.UDkrXL: line 851: IntegrateWithGNOME: command not found
/var/tmp/rpm-tmp.JO0hSG: line 851: IntegrateWithGNOME: command not found
[adam@eris ~]$
http://www.rpm.org/ticket/102 says this about the "not found":
"Sun jre/jsdk packaging is notoriously broken and this is one of the
issues: it's a bug in %verify script of Sun's packages, not rpm itself."
So I'm not sure where to look next. Maybe trying the OpenJDK JRE
instead of Sun's.
["new" OfficeJet 4315v]
>>> Which cartridges does it take?
>
>> Intentionally HP 21 & 22, the ones I'd stocked up on.
Well, it arrived this afternoon and looks to be in decent shape with
a few scuffs, including all the various doors and trays that usually
get lost or broken, and the AC adapter (I asked about that one
before bidding!) although that last /may/ be the same as the one
from the recently deceased DeskJet. Apparently for black ink it can
use either the HP 21 or 27, which I'll have to look into once I've
gotten it working. As I expected, it came with no software and no
documentation, but I'm pretty sure I can find those online.
>> I've also learned from my parents' experience: do NOT connect the
>> fax machine to the phone line except when sending something out, or
>> expecting something in.
>
> EXPN?
I don't understand -- do you mean the credit bureau is known for
junk faxing? When my parents leave their fax connected, they get
junk fax advertisements for things they have no interest in, like
vacations to places they'd never go to. When they keep the fax
disconnected, I suppose calls to their fax number (same as the voice
line but with "distinctive ring") roll over to their answering
machine, and word spreads within a few days that it's not a fax number.
>> And external dialup modems are getting harder to find,
>> especially ones not dependent on software.
>
> I know that they still exist - I noted an item on kernel ChangeLog
> for 2.6.39.2 and 3.0-rc3 for the Zoom 4597 USB modem.
They still exist, although the local retail stores are down to about
one Winmodem each and one box of blank floppies, compared to
numerous selections of both several years ago. Something like
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16825164005
would seem to be adequate -- and I see the descriptions now specify
"hardware-based" when appropriate.
[Usenet shrinking]
>>> A few groups like c.o.l.security are down 40:1 since 2003.
>
>> What happened there? And where did they go? Or did the group die
>> out from an increasing amount of spam and trolls?
>
> No, things just quietly went down-hill.
That still sounds a little strange to me, as I'm sure that there's
as much need for discussion of Linux security as ever. Maybe it's
been moved to someplace more secure. ;-)
>> This newsgroup seems to be holding up well, by comparison.
>
> It's somewhat hard to determine, as there is randomness.
Of course, but from a quick look at the numbers I see overall
activity declining, but relatively slowly. I'm assuming it's from
the general decline of Usenet, not from people switching from
Mandriva to something else.
Adam
Moe Trin
<iub1qd$6r0$1...@dont-email.me>, Adam wrote:
>Moe Trin wrote:
[interleave]
>> Excerpted: a screen shot from "Paul Mace Software" "HOPTIMUM"
>> shows an AT with a ST251 - at interleaves of 1-8, the transfer
>> times were 28 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 - 2:1 gave a 3 second transfer, while
>> 1:1 took 28 seconds.
>I knew better than to try a 1:1 interleave, as that would have
>guaranteed only one sector per revolution. Maybe I should have
>wasted the time, just to make the other numbers look better. ;-)
Funny thing was I had an AT (clone) and it had ST251 drives. It came
out of the box at 3:1. We had some real ATs at work, which is why we
got the Spin-Rite program. But then, we also found it possible to
overclock the original AT - vaguely mine was running a 9.3 MHz, but a
few others got it to run at 10.0 MHz.
[exceptionally slow Java]
>Dave Hodgins was kind enough to try that site on his Mageia system
>and found it took about 5 to 15 seconds, which sounds reasonable to
>me. For one thing, that shows that it's not the Linux JRE in
>general that's the cause of my glacial speed there, but something
>specific to my system/configuration.
I thought that was understood
>The Ubuntu install is at my parents' house, and I generally visit on
>Saturdays. I haven't tried it there yet.
Is that install "stock"?
>I've tried uninstalling Java and then installing different versions
>of it, including the latest directly from the Java website, but they
>either take about as long, or don't do anything at all. Something
>is strange here and definitely worth looking into.
Are you using the Mandriva package, or is this something direct from
Oracle? OK, I see below
>> does 'rpm -V $PACKAGE' show any config file changes you can't
>> understand/explain?
>Yesterday:
>[adam@eris etc]$ rpm -V jre-1.6.0_24-fcs
>missing c /etc/.java/.systemPrefs/.system.lock
>missing c /etc/.java/.systemPrefs/.systemRootModFile
WTF???
>http://www.rpm.org/ticket/102 says this about the "not found":
>"Sun jre/jsdk packaging is notoriously broken and this is one of the
>issues: it's a bug in %verify script of Sun's packages, not rpm itself."
>So I'm not sure where to look next. Maybe trying the OpenJDK JRE
>instead of Sun's.
Why are you using the Sun package in place of what-ever comes with
Mandriva? Based on the rpm -V output above, I'd have to agree that
the package is less than optimal.
["new" OfficeJet 4315v]
>Well, it arrived this afternoon and looks to be in decent shape with
>a few scuffs, including all the various doors and trays that usually
>get lost or broken, and the AC adapter (I asked about that one
>before bidding!) although that last /may/ be the same as the one
>from the recently deceased DeskJet.
You said you paid $0.99 + $20 shipping, so you probably came out ahead
>As I expected, it came with no software and no documentation, but I'm
>pretty sure I can find those online.
At least with mine, the documentation was minimal, and the supplied
software was windoze only. I can't recall if I had to go to the ``HP''
site (http://hplipopensource.com/hplip-web/downloads.html) or not.
>>> I've also learned from my parents' experience: do NOT connect the
>>> fax machine to the phone line except when sending something out, or
>>> expecting something in.
>> EXPN?
>I don't understand -- do you mean the credit bureau is known for
>junk faxing?
RFC0821, 2821 or 5321 it stands for "EXPAND"
>When my parents leave their fax connected, they get junk fax
>advertisements for things they have no interest in, like vacations to
>places they'd never go to.
If the junk faxes are coming from out-of-state, that's a violation of
federal law, and I'd be surprised if New York doesn't have a state law
prohibiting it within New York.
[modems]
>> I know that they still exist - I noted an item on kernel ChangeLog
>> for 2.6.39.2 and 3.0-rc3 for the Zoom 4597 USB modem.
>They still exist, although the local retail stores are down to about
>one Winmodem each and one box of blank floppies, compared to
>numerous selections of both several years ago.
I haven't looked lately, but it's obvious you haven't been in a "Frys
Electronics" or similar. My nephew describes the store we took him to
(in Tempe, AZ, though the North Phoenix store is similar) as "Best Buy
with a serious overdose of steroids" (both are over 120,000 ft^2)
though the corporate offices are in Silicon Valley.
>Something like [...] would seem to be adequate -- and I see the
>descriptions now specify "hardware-based" when appropriate.
That product seems old (reviews from 2008), but the two keys are some
Linux users report it work, and the keywords "CDC ACM" (Communication
Device Class Abstract Control Model). The USR 5637 is similar.
[Usenet shrinking]
>> No, things just quietly went down-hill.
>That still sounds a little strange to me, as I'm sure that there's
>as much need for discussion of Linux security as ever. Maybe it's
>been moved to someplace more secure. ;-)
I don't think the c.o.l.security group lived up to it's expectations.
I was one of the people advocating the group (in preference to using
comp.security.firewalls and comp.security.unix), because the Linux
questions posted to those groups were often FAQs and the skill level
of the Linux poster was often far below that of the average poster
from other O/S. Most Linux distributions today have their own unique
``helper'' tool which as so different that the best answers will come
from a distribution specific site. I don't belive the c.o.l.security
FAQ has been published since July 2002 (but then, neither has the FAQ
for "comp.security.unix" and "comp.security.misc").
>Of course, but from a quick look at the numbers I see overall
>activity declining, but relatively slowly. I'm assuming it's from
>the general decline of Usenet, not from people switching from
>Mandriva to something else.
Probably a reasonable assumption - but how much the current fun and
games in France will effect the continued popularity of Mandriva may
be the unanswered question.
Old guy
Adam
> On Mon, 27 Jun 2011, in the Usenet newsgroup alt.os.linux.mandriva, in article
> <iub1qd$6r0$1...@dont-email.me>, Adam wrote:
[exceptionally slow Java]
>> The Ubuntu install is at my parents' house, and I generally
>> visit on Saturdays. I haven't tried it there yet.
>
> Is that install "stock"?
I suppose so, as it's only stuff from the install CD and Ubuntu
repository. It's Ubuntu 2009.4 LTS (from '09) IIRC, but I don't
think that matters here. I'll try playing around with it next time
I'm there.
>> that shows that it's not the Linux JRE in
>> general that's the cause of my glacial speed there, but something
>> specific to my system/configuration.
>
> I thought that was understood
I'd assumed it, but now I know. Is the JRE for standalone code the
same as for browser plugins?
>> I've tried uninstalling Java and then installing different versions
>> of it, including the latest directly from the Java website, but they
>> either take about as long, or don't do anything at all. Something
>> is strange here and definitely worth looking into.
>
> Are you using the Mandriva package, or is this something direct from
> Oracle?
Everything has been a package from the Mandriva repository, except
for one I downloaded directly from Oracle a few days ago.
>>> does 'rpm -V $PACKAGE' show any config file changes you can't
>>> understand/explain?
>
>> Yesterday:
>
>> [adam@eris etc]$ rpm -V jre-1.6.0_24-fcs
>> missing c /etc/.java/.systemPrefs/.system.lock
>> missing c /etc/.java/.systemPrefs/.systemRootModFile
>
> WTF???
It seemed to run correctly (if slowly) without those two files. I
used 'touch' to create both and that got rid of the message,
although it made no difference in speed.
>> "Sun jre/jsdk packaging is notoriously broken and this is one of the
>> issues: it's a bug in %verify script of Sun's packages, not rpm itself."
>> So I'm not sure where to look next. Maybe trying the OpenJDK JRE
>> instead of Sun's.
>
> Why are you using the Sun package in place of what-ever comes with
> Mandriva? Based on the rpm -V output above, I'd have to agree that
> the package is less than optimal.
Well, the Sun package /is/ one of the choices in the Mandriva
repository. I just checked and I had none of the packages
installed, so I got the OpenJDK one from the repository, but that
doesn't seem to be any better. This one merits further research,
and maybe even a new thread in the appropriate NG, although AFAIK my
only uses for Java are that chat room I rarely visit, and
NetZero/Juno which I generally don't use unless DSL is down, so I
wouldn't give it high priority.
["new" OfficeJet 4315v]
>> Well, it arrived this afternoon and looks to be in decent shape with
>> a few scuffs, including all the various doors and trays that usually
>> get lost or broken, and the AC adapter (I asked about that one
>> before bidding!) although that last /may/ be the same as the one
>> from the recently deceased DeskJet.
>
> You said you paid $0.99 + $20 shipping, so you probably came out ahead
Yep, if it's still working a year from now, I'll agree it was a good
deal. I've been happy with nearly all of my eBay purchases. BTW
its AC adapter had the same pinouts and voltages as the deceased
Deskjet, but higher current ratings.
>> As I expected, it came with no software and no documentation, but I'm
>> pretty sure I can find those online.
>
> At least with mine, the documentation was minimal, and the supplied
> software was windoze only. I can't recall if I had to go to the ``HP''
> site (http://hplipopensource.com/hplip-web/downloads.html) or not.
I found the manual and software online fairly easily. I'd already
gone through the same thing with the LaserJet so I knew it wouldn't
be too difficult, except that for the LaserJet I found a half-dozen
usable PPD files and had to decide which one to use. HPLIP
recognized the OfficeJet automatically, and I've checked that all
its functions work (print, scan page, copy, send and receive fax).
What was a surprise to me that as soon as I plugged in the phone
line, it reported "off hook". It turns out that one has to use a
2-conductor RJ-11 cable to connect it. I never encountered anything
that required a 2-conductor cable before; I thought they just were
cheap versions of the 4-conductor ones.
The biggest disadvantage, which I knew even before I bid on it, was
that it goes through ink quite fast. The Deskjet only took 21
(black) and 22 (tricolor) ink cartridges; this one also can use the
27 (which has about twice as much ink as the 21) but not the 28.
And the 56 and 57 cartridges are essentially the same (but not
interchangeable electrically) except with even more ink.
So far (with the Deskjet) I had no problem refilling the black
cartridges, but got cross-contamination with the tricolor. To save
money, I do nearly all my printing on the Laserjet, and just plan to
use the Officejet for "photo quality", copies, and faxes, so ink
cost isn't a terrible burden. I figure that genuine HP ink is
really only critical for the photos, anyway.
>> When my parents leave their fax connected, they get junk fax
>> advertisements for things they have no interest in, like vacations to
>> places they'd never go to.
>
> If the junk faxes are coming from out-of-state, that's a violation of
> federal law, and I'd be surprised if New York doesn't have a state law
> prohibiting it within New York.
Yeah, probably, but they send junk faxes anyway. My parents have
the "distinctive ring" for the fax machine. It seems to me they
could leave the fax on and connected, but set never to answer the
phone. If they hear the distinctive ring, they can just run to the
fax machine and tell it to receive before the answering machine
picks up -- or they can let the answering machine gets it, and the
sender will figure out it's not a fax number. I don't expect enough
faxes to get a second line or "distinctive ring," so I'm just going
to leave mine set up never to answer the phone. That's my current
plan, anyway.
[modems]
>>> I know that they still exist
[...]
> I haven't looked lately, but it's obvious you haven't been in a "Frys
> Electronics" or similar.
Nope, no place quite like that around here (although I think there
are some an hour or two away), so I make do with NewEgg. I was in a
Fry's once, near San Diego in 2004. By coincidence one item on my
list was "the cheapest modem that will work" (at my host's request)
and at that time they had an impressive number of choices, although
I'm sure it's much less now. My local choices are down to Best Buy,
Office Depot, and Staples. (The local OfficeMax closed, and Circuit
City is gone for good.) There /is/ a computer parts store in Albany
(90 minutes away), but they keep everything in the back room so
that's no fun at all.
>> Something like [...] would seem to be adequate -- and I see the
>> descriptions now specify "hardware-based" when appropriate.
>
> That product seems old (reviews from 2008), but the two keys are some
> Linux users report it work, and the keywords "CDC ACM" (Communication
> Device Class Abstract Control Model). The USR 5637 is similar.
I didn't look into it closely; I just wanted an example of one that
would work with Linux. When this box dies, I suppose my choices if
I want a faxmodem are a USB to RS232 adapter and a conventional
external modem, or something like that link, which is about the same
price as the adapter.
It's been a busy time here as far as hardware goes. I finally got
my Epson flatbed scanner working with Linux -- the "secret" was to
not use 'sane', just use 'iscan' from Avasys. I don't do much
scanning, so I'd been managing with a WinXP VM and Epson's own
Windows software (including a nice OCR program). However, I can't
get the latest VirtualBox to connect to any USB ports. BTW I
discovered that if you scan in an Ektachrome slide at 4800 DPI, the
film grain is larger than the pixel size.
[Usenet shrinking]
>> I'm assuming it's from
>> the general decline of Usenet, not from people switching from
>> Mandriva to something else.
>
> Probably a reasonable assumption - but how much the current fun and
> games in France will effect the continued popularity of Mandriva may
> be the unanswered question.
As someone (you?) pointed out, most users aren't going to switch to
a distro that's as good, or even a little better, than the one
they're using. OTOH I now see Mageia users here, but I don't see
any raves about it yet. I'm conservative in that respect, and wait
on adopting new things until I've heard from others using it.
Adam
Moe Trin
<iufsfn$435$1...@dont-email.me>, Adam wrote:
>Moe Trin wrote:
[exceptionally slow Java]
>> Is that install "stock"?
>I suppose so, as it's only stuff from the install CD and Ubuntu
>repository. It's Ubuntu 2009.4 LTS (from '09) IIRC, but I don't
>think that matters here. I'll try playing around with it next time
>I'm there.
What I'm interested in is looking at the Ubuntu to see if it's slow.
>> Are you using the Mandriva package, or is this something direct
>> from Oracle?
>Everything has been a package from the Mandriva repository, except
>for one I downloaded directly from Oracle a few days ago.
If the Mandriva package is slow, I'd be looking to see what eris is
doing/configured differently, because I can't imaging the ordinary
Linux user tolerating such delays.
>>> [adam@eris etc]$ rpm -V jre-1.6.0_24-fcs
>>> missing c /etc/.java/.systemPrefs/.system.lock
>>> missing c /etc/.java/.systemPrefs/.systemRootModFile
>> WTF???
>It seemed to run correctly (if slowly) without those two files.
First, I'm not used to seeing dot files/directories in /etc. Second,
a file containing the string '.lock' is often a UUCP style "lock" file
(I'm using "this" resource, no one else can right now) such as is
often found in /var/lock/. The fact that both files are marked with
the 'c' (configuration file) would suggest that /etc/ is the right
place, but if so, the names were poorly chosen by the packager.
>I used 'touch' to create both and that got rid of the message,
>although it made no difference in speed.
'/bin/rpm -q --dump jre | grep systemPrefs' and look at the second
(size), fifth (mode) and sixth/seventh (owner/group) fields of those.
>> Why are you using the Sun package in place of what-ever comes with
>> Mandriva? Based on the rpm -V output above, I'd have to agree that
>> the package is less than optimal.
>Well, the Sun package /is/ one of the choices in the Mandriva
>repository. I just checked and I had none of the packages
>installed, so I got the OpenJDK one from the repository, but that
>doesn't seem to be any better.
I seem to be using the OpenJDK, perhaps because of licensing issues.
>This one merits further research, and maybe even a new thread in the
>appropriate NG, although AFAIK my only uses for Java are that chat
>room I rarely visit, and NetZero/Juno which I generally don't use
>unless DSL is down, so I wouldn't give it high priority.
A lot of the information web-sites I visit seem to want Java, but many
will work without it.
["new" OfficeJet 4315v]
>HPLIP recognized the OfficeJet automatically, and I've checked that
>all its functions work (print, scan page, copy, send and receive fax).
Great!
>What was a surprise to me that as soon as I plugged in the phone
>line, it reported "off hook". It turns out that one has to use a
>2-conductor RJ-11 cable to connect it. I never encountered anything
>that required a 2-conductor cable before; I thought they just were
>cheap versions of the 4-conductor ones.
I can't say that I've ever encountered that either. Is the wall
connector wired correctly (pairs and polarity)?
>The biggest disadvantage, which I knew even before I bid on it, was
>that it goes through ink quite fast. The Deskjet only took 21
>(black) and 22 (tricolor) ink cartridges; this one also can use the
>27 (which has about twice as much ink as the 21) but not the 28.
>And the 56 and 57 cartridges are essentially the same (but not
>interchangeable electrically) except with even more ink.
Is the quantity a function of how big the sponge is, or merely how
much ink they bother to put in there?
>> If the junk faxes are coming from out-of-state, that's a violation
>> of federal law, and I'd be surprised if New York doesn't have a
>> state law prohibiting it within New York.
>Yeah, probably, but they send junk faxes anyway.
Telephone Consumer Protection Act (TCPA) of 1991
www.fcc.gov/cgb/consumerfacts/unwantedfaxes.html, or visit the Web site
at www.fcc.gov/cgb/policy/faxadvertising.html.
>My parents have the "distinctive ring" for the fax machine. It seems
>to me they could leave the fax on and connected, but set never to
>answer the phone. If they hear the distinctive ring, they can just
>run to the fax machine and tell it to receive before the answering
>machine picks up -- or they can let the answering machine gets it, and
>the sender will figure out it's not a fax number.
Do they really need the fax machine set to receive?
>I don't expect enough faxes to get a second line or "distinctive ring,"
>so I'm just going to leave mine set up never to answer the phone.
>That's my current plan, anyway.
Faxes are getting less and less common, and the last time I _received_
one was in 1996. I think I've sent one as late as 2004 or so. I've
got the capability if needed, but it doesn't seem to be.
[modems]
>> it's obvious you haven't been in a "Frys Electronics" or similar.
>Nope, no place quite like that around here (although I think there
>are some an hour or two away), so I make do with NewEgg. I was in a
>Fry's once, near San Diego in 2004.
We lived a mile from one in Sunnyvale, my wife worked a half mile from
one in Fremont, and I was a mile and a half from the Palo Alto store.
When we moved here, they were just opening the Tempe store 26 miles to
the South. The North Phoenix store is only 15 miles away and newer.
>By coincidence one item on my list was "the cheapest modem that will
>work" (at my host's request) and at that time they had an impressive
>number of choices, although I'm sure it's much less now.
I haven't looked, but you're probably right. My nephew wanted to buy a
portable DVD player. There was a fifty foot long row of shelves - maybe
a total of 250 linear feet of shelf space - of such devices priced from
US$36 to something over US$120.
>As someone (you?) pointed out, most users aren't going to switch to
>a distro that's as good, or even a little better, than the one
>they're using. OTOH I now see Mageia users here, but I don't see
>any raves about it yet.
http://distrowatch.com/weekly.php?issue=20110627
Most people are resistant to change - they tend to remain with their
first encounter, whether it be foods, cars, beers, or Linux distros
which is good because
DistroWatch database summary
* Number of all distributions in the database: 688
* Number of active distributions in the database: 322
* Number of dormant distributions: 57
* Number of discontinued distributions: 309
* Number of distributions on the waiting list: 253
"You want choice??? We got it!"
Old guy
Adam
> On Wed, 29 Jun 2011, in the Usenet newsgroup alt.os.linux.mandriva, in article
> <iufsfn$435$1...@dont-email.me>, Adam wrote:
[exceptionally slow Java]
>> It's Ubuntu 2009.4 LTS (from '09) IIRC, but I don't
>> think that matters here. I'll try playing around with it next time
>> I'm there.
>
> What I'm interested in is looking at the Ubuntu to see if it's slow.
Well, that'll have to wait until the weekend when I'm there. I
could install some other distro in a VM and try that too. There
would be some performance hit, but I'd still get an idea of the
order of magnitude involved.
>> Everything has been a package from the Mandriva repository, except
>> for one I downloaded directly from Oracle a few days ago.
>
> If the Mandriva package is slow, I'd be looking to see what eris is
> doing/configured differently, because I can't imaging the ordinary
> Linux user tolerating such delays.
My latest conclusion is that it's not the Java interpreter, as none
of the ones I've tried have been any faster. I've also started
using Firefox for that, as the Java developers are more likely to
have tested it with that than with Seamonkey. I know installing the
plugin requires manually making a symlink from the "plugins"
directory to the Java one, but since the Java plugin does work
correctly (if slowly) then I assume I got that right.
> First, I'm not used to seeing dot files/directories in /etc.
At this moment I have the OpenJDK plugin rpm installed (which
insisted on installing the other packages listed below, except for
the LibreOffice one), and now the only dots in /etc are files in
/etc/hsfmodem (driver for the Winmodem) and /etc/skel, which I
assume have nothing to do with Java.
[adam@eris ~]$ rpm -qa | grep -Ei 'java|jvm|jre'
java-access-bridge-1.26.2-1mdv2010.0
rootcerts-java-20110323.00-1mdv2010.0
libobasis3.3-javafilter-3.3.1-8
java-1.6.0-openjdk-plugin-1.6.0.0-7.b18.5mdv2010.0
java-1.6.0-openjdk-1.6.0.0-7.b18.5mdv2010.0
timezone-java-2010i-0.2mdv2010.0
[adam@eris ~]$
> '/bin/rpm -q --dump jre | grep systemPrefs' and look at the second
> (size), fifth (mode) and sixth/seventh (owner/group) fields of those.
No matches.
[adam@eris ~]$ rpm -q --dump
java-1.6.0-openjdk-plugin-1.6.0.0-7.b18.5mdv2010.0
/usr/lib/jvm/java-1.6.0-openjdk-1.6.0.0/jre/lib/i386/IcedTeaPlugin.so 199844
1301068688 5da9c6a9dfb0d54b5649eff119ee6780 0100755 root root 0 0 0 X
/usr/lib/mozilla 4096 1301068638 00000000000000000000000000000000
040755 root root 0 0 0 X
/usr/lib/mozilla/plugins 4096 1301068638
00000000000000000000000000000000 040755 root root 0 0 0 X
[adam@eris ~]$ rpm -q --dump
java-1.6.0-openjdk-1.6.0.0-7.b18.5mdv2010.0 | grep -i systemPrefs
[adam@eris ~]$
And on the theory that too much information is better than too little:
[adam@eris ~]$ rpm -V java-1.6.0-openjdk-plugin-1.6.0.0-7.b18.5mdv2010.0
[adam@eris ~]$ rpm -V java-1.6.0-openjdk-1.6.0.0-7.b18.5mdv2010.0
[adam@eris ~]$
[adam@eris ~]$ ls -l
/usr/lib/jvm/java-1.6.0-openjdk-1.6.0.0/jre/lib/i386/IcedTeaPlugin.so /usr/lib/mozilla
/usr/lib/mozilla/plugins
-rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 199844 2011-03-25 11:58
/usr/lib/jvm/java-1.6.0-openjdk-1.6.0.0/jre/lib/i386/IcedTeaPlugin.so*
/usr/lib/mozilla:
total 8
drwx------ 4 root root 4096 2010-02-19 13:09 extensions/
drwxr-xr-x 2 root root 4096 2011-06-30 19:35 plugins/
/usr/lib/mozilla/plugins:
total 464
lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 39 2011-05-01 21:45 libflashplayer.so ->
/usr/lib/flash-plugin/libflashplayer.so*
lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 34 2011-06-30 19:35 libjavaplugin.so ->
/etc/alternatives/libjavaplugin.so*
-rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 96524 2010-12-24 04:32 libtotem-cone-plugin.so*
-rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 105092 2010-12-24 04:32 libtotem-gmp-plugin.so*
-rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 67740 2010-12-24 04:32 libtotem-mully-plugin.so*
-rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 76164 2010-12-24 04:32
libtotem-narrowspace-plugin.so*
-rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 121864 2011-04-20 19:42
npwrapper.libflashplayer.so*
[adam@eris ~]$ ls -l /etc/alternatives/libjavaplugin.so
lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 56 2011-06-30 19:35
/etc/alternatives/libjavaplugin.so ->
/usr/lib/jvm/jre-1.6.0-openjdk/lib/i386/IcedTeaPlugin.so*
[adam@eris ~]$ ls -l
/usr/lib/jvm/jre-1.6.0-openjdk/lib/i386/IcedTeaPlugin.so
-rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 199844 2011-03-25 11:58
/usr/lib/jvm/jre-1.6.0-openjdk/lib/i386/IcedTeaPlugin.so*
[adam@eris ~]$
>> This one merits further research, and maybe even a new thread in the
>> appropriate NG, although AFAIK my only uses for Java are that chat
>> room I rarely visit, and NetZero/Juno which I generally don't use
>> unless DSL is down, so I wouldn't give it high priority.
>
> A lot of the information web-sites I visit seem to want Java, but many
> will work without it.
I don't recall any other websites taking as long to load as that
chat room, but then most other websites have other stuff besides the
Java app.
I'm downloading a CD of Mandriva 2010.0, which is what I'm running
on my "production" system although that was installed from the DVD,
and will install it in a VM. As mentioned, I suspect the problem is
somewhere other than the JRE itself.
["new" OfficeJet 4315v]
>> What was a surprise to me that as soon as I plugged in the phone
>> line, it reported "off hook". It turns out that one has to use a
>> 2-conductor RJ-11 cable to connect it. I never encountered anything
>> that required a 2-conductor cable before; I thought they just were
>> cheap versions of the 4-conductor ones.
>
> I can't say that I've ever encountered that either. Is the wall
> connector wired correctly (pairs and polarity)?
I believe so. It's something in the design, as the manual keeps
mentioning that you have to use the "special cable" (no details
given) originally included with it. It's also explained on
http://h10025.www1.hp.com/ewfrf/wc/document?docname=c00014834&lc=en&dlc=en&cc=us&lang=en&rule=5827&product=1138342
. "HP fax products are designed to work with a two-conductor phone
cable." I don't understand why nor does anyone else online -- maybe
something to do with ISDN or other services using RJ-11, I dunno.
Following HP's instructions worked, though. Fortunately I had a few
2-conductor cables lying around, probably included with some cheap
product I'd bought. Apparently they're hard to find in stores when
you actually want one.
>> The biggest disadvantage, which I knew even before I bid on it, was
>> that it goes through ink quite fast. The Deskjet only took 21
>> (black) and 22 (tricolor) ink cartridges; this one also can use the
>> 27 (which has about twice as much ink as the 21) but not the 28.
>> And the 56 and 57 cartridges are essentially the same (but not
>> interchangeable electrically) except with even more ink.
>
> Is the quantity a function of how big the sponge is, or merely how
> much ink they bother to put in there?
Probably the capacity or size of the sponge. The 21 is meant to
hold 5 ml black, and from refilling I've found it doesn't hold much
more than that. I took the cover off one to see if removing the
sponge would create a super-capacity cartridge, but it just made a
mess. I don't remember whether the sponge took up the whole
interior or not. I'd guess not, which would explain it.
[junk faxes]
> Telephone Consumer Protection Act (TCPA) of 1991
> www.fcc.gov/cgb/consumerfacts/unwantedfaxes.html, or visit the Web site
> at www.fcc.gov/cgb/policy/faxadvertising.html.
Thanks for the links! I've sent them on to my parents as well. BTW
no word yet about my complaint (and subsequent notarized affidavit)
about the "car warranty" robocaller, but at least they're not
calling back. All I get is the "your credit card" one occasionally.
The repeated political/survey robocalls I mentioned a few weeks
ago have stopped for now as New York State has come to a decision on
that issue. Unfortunately that same organization will probably be
calling next year as they now want to oust my state senator at the
next election.
>> My parents have the "distinctive ring" for the fax machine. It seems
>> to me they could leave the fax on and connected, but set never to
>> answer the phone. If they hear the distinctive ring, they can just
>> run to the fax machine and tell it to receive before the answering
>> machine picks up -- or they can let the answering machine gets it, and
>> the sender will figure out it's not a fax number.
>
> Do they really need the fax machine set to receive?
I don't think they need that setting any more, now that they're not
as active in as many committees and organizations as they were when
they first retired. They may have needed it at first. I'll mention
it to them.
>> I don't expect enough faxes to get a second line or "distinctive ring,"
>> so I'm just going to leave mine set up never to answer the phone.
>> That's my current plan, anyway.
>
> Faxes are getting less and less common, and the last time I _received_
> one was in 1996. I think I've sent one as late as 2004 or so. I've
> got the capability if needed, but it doesn't seem to be.
Before, some of the time I could have sent a fax, but called or
mailed copies instead. The only time I actually sent one this
millennium was the estimate after my car accident, and I had to pay
Staples to send it. You're right; they're not as common, but having
the capability won't interfere with anything. Even if I never fax
anything again (after my test faxes), I still have a sheet-fed color
copier and inkjet printer for my $21. There is something to be said
for multifunction devices, although I wouldn't have said so before.
[shopping for electronics]
>> I was in a Fry's once, near San Diego in 2004.
>
> We lived a mile from one in Sunnyvale
I once stayed at the Super 8 on Matilda Ave. in Sunnyvale and ate at
the McDonald's down the street. Does that count for anything? ;-)
> When we moved here, they were just opening the Tempe store 26 miles to
> the South. The North Phoenix store is only 15 miles away and newer.
But with NewEgg, TigerDirect, et al. online, do I have any less of a
selection, or am I mainly missing the opportunity to look at the
specs on the box and have the "fun" of shopping?
> My nephew wanted to buy a
> portable DVD player. There was a fifty foot long row of shelves - maybe
> a total of 250 linear feet of shelf space - of such devices priced from
> US$36 to something over US$120.
Nope, not as many choices in the stores around here, and the number
of stores is decreasing too. Well, maybe one of the computer
superstores will open one up somewhere around here.
["all about choice"]
> http://distrowatch.com/weekly.php?issue=20110627
IIRC when I was setting up "retread" I used their "top 10" list of
distros to choose some for it. On a 60 GB HD I shoehorned four
distros plus WinXP. I /think/ they were Mandriva (familiarity),
Ubuntu, Slackware, and Puppy. IOW a giant sandbox!
> Most people are resistant to change - they tend to remain with their
> first encounter, whether it be foods, cars, beers, or Linux distros
For many items, yes, but this past semester the instructor also
mentioned "parity products" which have low brand loyalty. Example:
lettuce. Every head of lettuce sold in a supermarket has a brand
name on the wrapper (and a company concerned with market share), but
how many people care or even notice it?
> which is good because
>
> DistroWatch database summary
> * Number of all distributions in the database: 688
> * Number of active distributions in the database: 322
> * Number of dormant distributions: 57
> * Number of discontinued distributions: 309
> * Number of distributions on the waiting list: 253
>
> "You want choice??? We got it!"
Which is overwhelming to a would-be user without any
recommendations, as it was for me at the beginning. That's where
Ubuntu is focusing their marketing, and somewhat succeeding. Even
just counting the "active" ones, that's too many to try.
DistroWatch's "top 10" list serves as a nice "short list".
But why does their "waiting list" go back seven years? Are they
/that/ backlogged in trying distros?
Meanwhile, whatever motivation I have seems to be (not
intentionally) directed toward straightening up this place. Since I
needed to do that anyway, I'm just going with it. Yesterday I went
through a few hundred CD/DVDs, most of which were already labelled.
The ones that weren't were the time-consuming ones -- are they
empty? Used? If used, any files worth keeping? Are the rewritable
ones formatted?
My database of computer projects now has a new entry, "vague ideas,"
a collection of low priority single-sentence things to be done
eventually, maybe. And now that I have a working inkjet printer
again, I'm going to work on fixing up and printing some of the
30-something slides (selected out of a thousand) I scanned in. I've
decided the section of the wall reserved for those photos has been
empty long enough.
Adam
Moe Trin
<iukqel$uhp$1...@dont-email.me>, Adam wrote:
>Moe Trin wrote:
[exceptionally slow Java]
>> What I'm interested in is looking at the Ubuntu to see if it's slow.
>Well, that'll have to wait until the weekend when I'm there. I
>could install some other distro in a VM and try that too. There
>would be some performance hit, but I'd still get an idea of the
>order of magnitude involved.
That's it - we're looking at eris taking ten minutes and David Hodgins
system taking that many seconds.
>My latest conclusion is that it's not the Java interpreter, as none
>of the ones I've tried have been any faster. I've also started
>using Firefox for that, as the Java developers are more likely to
>have tested it with that than with Seamonkey. I know installing the
>plugin requires manually making a symlink from the "plugins"
>directory to the Java one, but since the Java plugin does work
>correctly (if slowly) then I assume I got that right.
One has to wonder what all has been enabled in the concept of plugings.
Could it be trying to load 70 languages or something equally weird?
>> First, I'm not used to seeing dot files/directories in /etc.
>At this moment I have the OpenJDK plugin rpm installed (which
>insisted on installing the other packages listed below, except for
>the LibreOffice one), and now the only dots in /etc are files in
>/etc/hsfmodem (driver for the Winmodem) and /etc/skel, which I
>assume have nothing to do with Java.
I don't have the winmodem driver, but /etc/skel (skeleton) is the
standard location for the dot files (and anything else) that gets
copied into the home directory of newly created users.
>> A lot of the information web-sites I visit seem to want Java, but
>> many will work without it.
>I don't recall any other websites taking as long to load as that
>chat room, but then most other websites have other stuff besides the
>Java app.
I dunno - David didn't have any problems with the site, so I've almost
got to think they have something gross there, that David's system
recognized as being BS and ignored, but yours is gamely trying to
cater to or load.
["new" OfficeJet 4315v]
>> Is the wall connector wired correctly (pairs and polarity)?
>I believe so. It's something in the design, as the manual keeps
>mentioning that you have to use the "special cable" (no details
>given) originally included with it.
Doesn't make any sense to me.
>> Is the quantity a function of how big the sponge is, or merely
>> how much ink they bother to put in there?
>Probably the capacity or size of the sponge. The 21 is meant to
>hold 5 ml black, and from refilling I've found it doesn't hold much
>more than that. I took the cover off one to see if removing the
>sponge would create a super-capacity cartridge, but it just made a
>mess.
I remember that you had fun with that.
>All I get is the "your credit card" one occasionally.
I filed complaints with the state on "Cardmember Services" - I think
that's the one you're referring to - and was told that the Feds are
involved as it's an out-of-state scammer.
>> Do they really need the fax machine set to receive?
>I don't think they need that setting any more, now that they're not
>as active in as many committees and organizations as they were when
>they first retired. They may have needed it at first. I'll mention
>it to them.
Below
>Before, some of the time I could have sent a fax, but called or
>mailed copies instead. The only time I actually sent one this
>millennium was the estimate after my car accident, and I had to pay
>Staples to send it. You're right; they're not as common, but having
>the capability won't interfere with anything.
My neighborhood grocery has one at the service desk (10 cents a page
not including toll charges) as does the UPS store and PostNet.
[shopping for electronics]
>> The North Phoenix store is only 15 miles away and newer.
>But with NewEgg, TigerDirect, et al. online, do I have any less of a
>selection, or am I mainly missing the opportunity to look at the
>specs on the box and have the "fun" of shopping?
and so on. I checked on Saturday - they had PCI and USB modems but
no RS-232. I picked up a USR 5637 for $45, and the box specifically
mentioned working with Linux. Once I got it home and opened things up
I found the modem, a phone cord, a CD and a sheet of paper. The CD
actually had some useful information (like "the manual"), but basically
was un-needed. No software to install. Just plug it in, lsusb and
then look for /dev/ttyACM0. Changed my dialing script (for USR 5610)
to point at that device instead of /dev/ttyS2. and away she went. Only
minor problem - no speaker, so you can't hear call progress.
["all about choice"]
>> http://distrowatch.com/weekly.php?issue=20110627
>IIRC when I was setting up "retread" I used their "top 10" list of
>distros to choose some for it. On a 60 GB HD I shoehorned four
>distros plus WinXP. I /think/ they were Mandriva (familiarity),
>Ubuntu, Slackware, and Puppy. IOW a giant sandbox!
Certainly is a choice. I suppose FreeBSD would have been pushing.
>> Most people are resistant to change - they tend to remain with their
>> first encounter, whether it be foods, cars, beers, or Linux distros
>For many items, yes, but this past semester the instructor also
>mentioned "parity products" which have low brand loyalty. Example:
>lettuce. Every head of lettuce sold in a supermarket has a brand
>name on the wrapper (and a company concerned with market share), but
>how many people care or even notice it?
The more important brand is the name of the grocery chain because the
common stuff sold in a store is the same as that sold in stores of a
different chain. Even the store branded products such as milk/dairy,
eggs, and similar may actually be supplied by chain "A" here, and "B"
in another part of the state/country. It may also be an independent,
who is supplying all chains locally. The state health inspectors will
know, but few if any of the customers.
In the stores around here, lettuce has a product code (4601) and that
is all. The boxes it arrives in the store may have a brand on them,
but more often than not, the brand is merely stenciled on above a
location name, and that's all you might see. That's true of nearly
all "bulk" veggies. The cellophane-wrapped stuff (meant to be
appreciated as premium quality - even if it isn't) will often have a
brand, and the asparagus bundles may have a brand tag on the rubber
band, but that tag is put on by the veggie clerk who put the stock out.
There is a bit of a problem because veggies are purchased at division
or even head office level and are supplied from many farmers in a large
area, not an easily recognized brand name. In some cases, they are
marketing cooperatives. You may see the "Dole" brand on things like
tomatoes or pineapples. That's a marketing service, and the actual
grower is a contractor to them.
Old guy
Adam
> On Fri, 01 Jul 2011, in the Usenet newsgroup alt.os.linux.mandriva, in article
> <iukqel$uhp$1...@dont-email.me>, Adam wrote:
[exceptionally slow Java]
As you've noticed, I made that into a separate thread. No solutions
yet, but I'm assuming that whatever solves that (if possible) would
also let NetZero/Juno's Java code initialize in substantially less
than ten minutes. Fortunately the chat page I mentioned, and
NetZero, aren't things I need to use very often.
["new" OfficeJet 4315v needing a 2-conductor RJ-11 cable]
>> I believe so. It's something in the design, as the manual keeps
>> mentioning that you have to use the "special cable" (no details
>> given) originally included with it.
>
> Doesn't make any sense to me.
Me neither, but the manual does emphasize the point without
detailing what's different about that cable. HP's web site
specifies it's a 2-conductor one, though. Strangely, I seem to have
more 2-conductor cables than 4-conductor in my collection, most of
which came included with various long-dead equipment. Is there any
other kind of RJ-11 system that uses all four conductors, ISDN or
something? The only use I know for the yellow and black wires is a
second phone line.
>>> Do [Adam's parents] really need the fax machine set to receive?
>
>> I don't think they need that setting any more, now that they're not
>> as active in as many committees and organizations as they were when
>> they first retired. They may have needed it at first. I'll mention
>> it to them.
Thing is, they need to be able to receive faxes as well as send
them, and there's no convenient and timely way to do that without
one's own machine.
[shopping for electronics]
> I checked on Saturday - they had PCI and USB modems but
> no RS-232. I picked up a USR 5637 for $45, and the box specifically
> mentioned working with Linux.
It might be easier to buy one of those that's the size of a DSL
filter, rather than use a USB-to-RS-232 adapter and my external
modem (Modem Blaster DE5621, currently unused).
> Only minor problem - no speaker, so you can't hear call progress.
As mentioned, I paid for a Linux driver for the Winmodem that came
with this system, and it uses the computer's sound system as its
"speaker", taking into account the ATL and ATM settings.
["all about choice"]
>> IIRC when I was setting up "retread" I used their "top 10" list of
>> distros to choose some for it. On a 60 GB HD I shoehorned four
>> distros plus WinXP. I /think/ they were Mandriva (familiarity),
>> Ubuntu, Slackware, and Puppy. IOW a giant sandbox!
>
> Certainly is a choice. I suppose FreeBSD would have been pushing.
Actually I'd considered (and downloaded and burned) that one too,
and also DSL and SliTaz as possibilities for the last, smaller
partition. I just came across my burned CDs of those while trying
to organize my various discs. However, as all of those were two
years old and at least one full version behind the current one, I
pitched them.
Matter of fact, lately what little motivation I've had has been, for
some unknown reason, directed towards straightening up this place.
As that's unquestionably something useful, I decided to go with it.
I can see my computer desk again, and have gotten rid of several
boxes of stuff I no longer need. I'm up to the "organize computer
pieces" part, which seems to divide neatly into "peripherals"
(anything outside the case) and "components" (anything inside the
case). I think I mentioned the PATA cables that need checking. I'm
also not sure whether to keep the parallel printer cables.
And the "louise-desktop" computer is now running unsupervised.
R.I.P. Louise (1995?-07/05/11).
Adam
Jim Beard
> Me neither, but the manual does emphasize the point without
> detailing what's different about that cable. HP's web site
> specifies it's a 2-conductor one, though. Strangely, I seem to
> have more 2-conductor cables than 4-conductor in my collection,
> most of which came included with various long-dead equipment. Is
> there any other kind of RJ-11 system that uses all four
> conductors, ISDN or something? The only use I know for the yellow
> and black wires is a second phone line.
Leased-line service by third-party providers may require
four-wire, depending on services offered. There probably are
other circumstances that would require it as well. You are not
likely to encounter them in a residential system.
Cheers!
jim b.
--
UNIX is not user unfriendly; it merely
expects users to be computer-friendly.
Moe Trin
<iv5g5k$tao$1...@dont-email.me>, Adam wrote:
>Moe Trin wrote:
[exceptionally slow Java]
>As you've noticed, I made that into a separate thread. No solutions
>yet, but I'm assuming that whatever solves that (if possible) would
>also let NetZero/Juno's Java code initialize in substantially less
>than ten minutes. Fortunately the chat page I mentioned, and
>NetZero, aren't things I need to use very often.
So far, the replies seem to be the normal type of suggestions. Jim
Beard's thought about a buggy hard disk controller sounds interesting
but I'd think you'd be able to trigger that one in normal use.
["new" OfficeJet 4315v needing a 2-conductor RJ-11 cable]
>> Doesn't make any sense to me.
>Me neither, but the manual does emphasize the point without
>detailing what's different about that cable. HP's web site
>specifies it's a 2-conductor one, though
The ONLY thing I can think of is pick-up/interference on the second
pair somehow bothering their modem.
>Strangely, I seem to have more 2-conductor cables than 4-conductor in
>my collection, most of which came included with various long-dead
>equipment.
Most of mine are two pair, because we have multiple phone lines.
[fax at parents]
>Thing is, they need to be able to receive faxes as well as send
>them, and there's no convenient and timely way to do that without
>one's own machine.
That's true, but who is still sending faxes? Why?
[shopping for electronics]
>> I checked on Saturday - they had PCI and USB modems but no RS-232.
>> I picked up a USR 5637 for $45, and the box specifically mentioned
>> working with Linux.
>It might be easier to buy one of those that's the size of a DSL
>filter, rather than use a USB-to-RS-232 adapter and my external
>modem (Modem Blaster DE5621, currently unused).
The USR 5637 is about 4 x 1 x 1.4 inch with a 4 inch USB cord. The
minor curiosity - the (two pair) phone cord has a built in ferrite
bead probably to keep the crap off the phone lines.
>> Only minor problem - no speaker, so you can't hear call progress.
>As mentioned, I paid for a Linux driver for the Winmodem that came
>with this system, and it uses the computer's sound system as its
>"speaker", taking into account the ATL and ATM settings.
Here, the modem has two LEDs (power and "data") and that's it. The
manual says ATL and ATM are there for compatibility reasons (and I do
use ATL on the existing modems) but are ignored.
["all about choice"]
>> I suppose FreeBSD would have been pushing.
>Actually I'd considered (and downloaded and burned) that one too,
At work, we do have some FreeBSD systems, but I don't access them very
often, and have the "Engage brain - this is BSD" problem to cater for
the other warts.
>And the "louise-desktop" computer is now running unsupervised.
>R.I.P. Louise (1995?-07/05/11).
Oh, CRAP! My condolences to you and your parents.
Old guy
Adam
> On 07/07/2011 07:40 PM, Adam wrote:
>
>> Is there any other kind of RJ-11 system that uses all four
>> conductors, ISDN or something? The only use I know for the yellow
>> and black wires is a second phone line.
>
> Leased-line service by third-party providers may require four-wire,
> depending on services offered. There probably are other circumstances
> that would require it as well. You are not likely to encounter them in a
> residential system.
This is my home, just POTS (one line) with DSL... but somehow the
"new" OfficeJet (multifunction including fax) could distinguish
between being connected with a 4-conductor cable (constant "off
hook" displayed) and a 2-conductor cable. I suppose my questions
are "How could it tell?" and "Why would it matter to the OfficeJet?".
Out of curiosity, with everything plugged in but on-hook I took the
plate off the kitchen jack, and noticed the yellow wire wasn't
connected at all. From the green to the red wire was about 51 V DC,
which IIRC is about usual, or -51 V from the red to the green wire.
What surprised me was that between the black and the red wire,
there was a steady 2 V AC or so. That would explain how the OJ
could tell, but still leaves the question of why it would matter to
the OJ, and especially why the black wire has any voltage at all.
Adam
Adam
> On Thu, 07 Jul 2011, in the Usenet newsgroup alt.os.linux.mandriva, in article
> <iv5g5k$tao$1...@dont-email.me>, Adam wrote:
["new" OfficeJet 4315v needing a 2-conductor RJ-11 cable]
>> Me neither, but the manual does emphasize the point without
>> detailing what's different about that cable. HP's web site
>> specifies it's a 2-conductor one, though
>
> The ONLY thing I can think of is pick-up/interference on the second
> pair somehow bothering their modem.
As I mentioned to Jim Beard, I took the cover off the kitchen jack
(which is where the computer et al. are connected to), and the
yellow wire wasn't connected to anything, from green to red was
about 51 V DC, and to my surprise from the black to the red was
about 2 V AC. That might explain how the OJ was able to detect a
4-conductor cable, but still doesn't explain why it needs a
2-conductor cable. Could have something to do with interference or
crosstalk if there are two lines, the second one dedicated to the fax.
BTW the OJ manual explains that it draws a small amount of power
while switched off, and that more than 72 hours without power might
cause it to forget things like the name and number for the header of
outgoing faxes. (But it arrived here after being unplugged for
longer than that, and still remembered the previous owner's info.)
Also, according to my Kill-A-Watt, when switched off it still draws
about 2-3W/7VA, which isn't enough to worry about but is still
considerably more than my massive LJ.
The OJ also has one feature I hadn't encountered before. If one is
making a voice call on the telephone plugged into the OJ, one can
send and receive faxes during the call without dropping the
connection. Have you ever heard of anything like that? So now a
little of the desk space I'd cleared off is taken up by a cordless
phone that I picked up at a garage sale for $1.
[fax at parents]
>> Thing is, they need to be able to receive faxes as well as send
>> them, and there's no convenient and timely way to do that without
>> one's own machine.
>
> That's true, but who is still sending faxes? Why?
Both parents are still on boards of various nonprofits, and
occasionally need to receive relevant documents for upcoming
meetings and such.
> Here, the modem has two LEDs (power and "data") and that's it. The
> manual says ATL and ATM are there for compatibility reasons (and I do
> use ATL on the existing modems) but are ignored.
And being able to hear what's going on is helpful, especially when
one gets a telco message ("no longer in service") or some human.
["all about choice"]
>>> I suppose FreeBSD would have been pushing.
>
>> Actually I'd considered (and downloaded and burned) that one too,
>
> At work, we do have some FreeBSD systems, but I don't access them very
> often, and have the "Engage brain - this is BSD" problem to cater for
> the other warts.
Well, the various distros on "retread" were meant as a "fun"
project, with eris staying the "production" system. One of my first
tasks with each distro after installation was getting the wi-fi
connection running for each. WinXP, Mandriva, and Ubuntu were
fairly straightforward, but I never did get it working under the
other two distros before it died.
>> And the "louise-desktop" computer is now running unsupervised.
>> R.I.P. Louise (1995?-07/05/11).
>
> Oh, CRAP! My condolences to you and your parents.
Thank you. She'd been "on borrowed time" since about February, but
it still seemed unexpected. This is the first time since 1972 that
my parents' house hasn't had at least one cat. Not being able to
have a cat of my own is one of my biggest regrets about this kidney
problem. <sigh>
Adam
Jim Beard
> The OJ also has one feature I hadn't encountered before. If one
> is making a voice call on the telephone plugged into the OJ, one
> can send and receive faxes during the call without dropping the
> connection. Have you ever heard of anything like that?
Is that simultaneously? The ability to make a voice call, send a
fax or shift to encrypted mode (and listen to the digits if you
wish), and then resume the voice call has been around for years.
I do not remember using a device that would allow simultaneous
transmission on a single twisted pair of both. I suppose one
could play games with the frequencies (e.g. kick the fax
frequency band way high above human hearing range and feed the
narrow frequency-displaced spectrum into the 4k band that also
carries voice).
Moe Trin
<ivaptf$575$1...@dont-email.me>, Adam wrote:
>Moe Trin wrote:
["new" OfficeJet 4315v needing a 2-conductor RJ-11 cable]
>As I mentioned to Jim Beard, I took the cover off the kitchen jack
>(which is where the computer et al. are connected to), and the
>yellow wire wasn't connected to anything, from green to red was
>about 51 V DC, and to my surprise from the black to the red was
>about 2 V AC
Not completely unexpected - what's the voltage (if any) between
black and yellow? As the second pair should be disconnected at the
demarch, any pickup will be dependent on any loading of the circuit
and if there is no load (your DMM is very high impedance) the
apparent voltage could be "large".
>That might explain how the OJ was able to detect a 4-conductor cable,
>but still doesn't explain why it needs a 2-conductor cable. Could
>have something to do with interference or crosstalk if there are two
>lines, the second one dedicated to the fax.
Interference/crosstalk ``should'' be nearly non-existent (CCITT specs
want it down at least 40 dB and desire it to be more than 55 dB most
of the time). If you stop and think about it, since the 1930s when
REA was setting specs on multi-pair cables for rural telephone line,
detectable crosstalk generally is an equipment failure.
>BTW the OJ manual explains that it draws a small amount of power
>while switched off, and that more than 72 hours without power might
>cause it to forget things like the name and number for the header of
>outgoing faxes. (But it arrived here after being unplugged for
>longer than that, and still remembered the previous owner's info.)
All that means is they are using a large capacitor as a rechargable
battery, and the 72 hours is a worst case. My old Fisher stereo
uses the same mechanism to store tuning information, but has a real
kechunk style power switch. If I don't turn it on for at least a few
minutes every other week, it forgets the presets, and I notice it's
slightly worse in summer (warmer in the house) than winter.
>Also, according to my Kill-A-Watt, when switched off it still draws
>about 2-3W/7VA, which isn't enough to worry about but is still
>considerably more than my massive LJ.
That's almost as bad as my DJ when it's on but idle.
>The OJ also has one feature I hadn't encountered before. If one is
>making a voice call on the telephone plugged into the OJ, one can
>send and receive faxes during the call without dropping the
>connection. Have you ever heard of anything like that?
"dropping"? Sure, but the call is interrupted (you can't talk while
the fax is in use). It's a variation on "Call Waiting". That also
depends on the phone company as that's a "special service" for an
extra fee. Essentially, the phone company puts the voice connection
"on hold" for the duration of the fax.
>So now a little of the desk space I'd cleared off is taken up by a
>cordless phone that I picked up at a garage sale for $1.
I'm down to one cordless - a Panasonic. Minor problem - the battery
only lasts about 4 years, and it can be a pain to find a retailer
with relatively fresh batteries.
[usb modem sans speaker]
>And being able to hear what's going on is helpful, especially when
>one gets a telco message ("no longer in service") or some human.
I don't have that happen to often, and the voice is often hard to
hear on the (other) internal modems. One of the modems I have or
had (can't find any documentation) would provide the "result" code
of "VOICE" (rather than "CONNECT" or similar) if something other than
a modem is detected on the other end of the wire. I don't remember
it being very reliable at detecting a voice connection though.
[Louise]
>She'd been "on borrowed time" since about February, but it still
>seemed unexpected. This is the first time since 1972 that my parents'
>house hasn't had at least one cat. Not being able to have a cat of
>my own is one of my biggest regrets about this kidney problem. <sigh>
That's got to be hard on them. Have they started auditioning a
replacement yet? We were catless for about a week after Princess
died (about 12 years after she adopted us) - Kiri and Sandy were the
replacements - and when Sandy died about four years later (he was an
older recycled cat), Good Sam and Smokie arrived about 10 days later.
At this time, when Kiri leaves (she's 15 now), I think we'll continue
to make do with Good Sam and Smokie (each about 10 now).
Old guy
Adam
> On 07/09/2011 07:57 PM, Adam wrote:
>> The OJ also has one feature I hadn't encountered before. If one
>> is making a voice call on the telephone plugged into the OJ, one
>> can send and receive faxes during the call without dropping the
>> connection. Have you ever heard of anything like that?
>
> Is that simultaneously? The ability to make a voice call, send a fax or
> shift to encrypted mode (and listen to the digits if you wish), and then
> resume the voice call has been around for years.
Oh, okay, then this isn't a new feature by any means. This is the
first time I've had any sort of fax machine, so the whole thing is
new to me. The manual specifically mentions using the telephone
that's plugged into the fax machine, so now my computer desk has a
phone on it. I'm not sure what would happen if I were using a
different phone when trying to send or receive a fax during a voice
call, but then I don't expect to deal with many faxes anyway.
> I do not remember using a device that would allow simultaneous
> transmission on a single twisted pair of both. I suppose one could play
> games with the frequencies (e.g. kick the fax frequency band way high
> above human hearing range and feed the narrow frequency-displaced
> spectrum into the 4k band that also carries voice).
But then how would anything over 4 KHz make it through my POTS voice
line to the CO? (And, in my case, through my DSL microfilter.)
Fortunately that's something I don't have to worry about.
Adam
Moe Trin
<ivftog$9rc$1...@dont-email.me>, Adam wrote:
>Jim Beard wrote:
>> I do not remember using a device that would allow simultaneous
>> transmission on a single twisted pair of both. I suppose one could
>> play games with the frequencies (e.g. kick the fax frequency band
>> way high above human hearing range and feed the narrow frequency-
>> displaced spectrum into the 4k band that also carries voice).
That would functionally be "different channels" and is implemented
with band-pass filters.
>But then how would anything over 4 KHz make it through my POTS voice
>line to the CO?
It wouldn't. Where there are multiple channels on a single pair
of copper wires, it's betwteen the CO and a road-side cabinet. The
subscriber line is _relatively_ narrow. With 1000 Hz as a reference,
the passband is -3 dB at 600 and 1600 Hz, -10 dB at ~125 and 2000 Hz,
-20 dB at 90 and 2600 Hz and -30 dB at 25 and 5000 Hz. If the
signal is going beyond the CO or that roadside cabinet, it's almost
certainly digitized and anything about 3500 Hz is lost in the A->D
conversion (intentionally).
Old guy
Adam
> On Sat, 09 Jul 2011, in the Usenet newsgroup
> alt.os.linux.mandriva, in article <ivaptf$575$1...@dont-email.me>,
> Adam wrote:
["new" OfficeJet 4315v needing a 2-conductor RJ-11 cable]
>> I took the cover off the kitchen
>> jack (which is where the computer et al. are connected to), and
>> the yellow wire wasn't connected to anything, from green to red
>> was about 51 V DC, and to my surprise from the black to the red
>> was about 2 V AC
>
> Not completely unexpected - what's the voltage (if any) between
> black and yellow?
I just measured all six combinations. G-R about 51 VDC (and R-G -51
VDC), B-G and B-R about 2.1 VAC. Y isn't connected to the phone
jack, but Y-G and Y-R are about 1.8 VAC, and B-Y about 180-350 mVAC.
I'm not sure what conclusions to draw from these, though.
> As the second pair should be disconnected at the demarch
Well, I don't think fiddling around at the box outside for the
entire building would be a good idea. The voltages may even be
different at my bedroom jack, but I don't think it's worth measuring
those.
> Interference/crosstalk ``should'' be nearly non-existent (CCITT
> specs want it down at least 40 dB and desire it to be more than
> 55 dB most of the time). If you stop and think about it, since
> the 1930s when REA was setting specs on multi-pair cables for
> rural telephone line, detectable crosstalk generally is an
> equipment failure.
Which still leaves me wondering /why/ the OJ needs a 2-conductor
cable, though.
>> BTW the OJ manual explains that it draws a small amount of
>> power while switched off, and that more than 72 hours without
>> power might cause it to forget things like the name and number
>> for the header of outgoing faxes. (But it arrived here after
>> being unplugged for longer than that, and still remembered the
>> previous owner's info.)
>
> All that means is they are using a large capacitor as a
> rechargeable battery, and the 72 hours is a worst case.
But then why would it draw 3W/7VA when powered off? Wouldn't
maintaining its configuration need, at most, milliamps?
> My old Fisher stereo uses the same mechanism to store tuning
> information, but has a real kechunk style power switch. If I
> don't turn it on for at least a few minutes every other week, it
> forgets the presets, and I notice it's slightly worse in summer
> (warmer in the house) than winter.
My 1984 receiver is like that too. The manual has the schematic,
but offhand I can't see which capacitor that is.
>> The OJ also has one feature I hadn't encountered before. If
>> one is making a voice call on the telephone plugged into the
>> OJ, one can send and receive faxes during the call without
>> dropping the connection.
>
> "dropping"? Sure, but the call is interrupted (you can't talk
> while the fax is in use). It's a variation on "Call Waiting".
Except since the only voice phone that works with is the one plugged
into the OJ, it sounds more like a relay or something inside the OJ
switching the signal between its "phone out" jack and its fax
circuitry. Nothing to do with the telco. I suppose if I were to
use any other phone here, I'd hear the entire fax transmission, but
its S/N ratio would probably be too low for a successful faxing.
>> So now a little of the desk space I'd cleared off is taken up
>> by a cordless phone that I picked up at a garage sale for $1.
>
> I'm down to one cordless - a Panasonic. Minor problem - the
> battery only lasts about 4 years, and it can be a pain to find a
> retailer with relatively fresh batteries.
Well, for a cost of $1, it doesn't have to last very long for me to
get my money's worth out of it. :-)
That reminds me... back in my 56K dialup days, I bought one cheap
phone that worked adequately as a phone, but whenever it was
connected, even on-hook, my modem connection went down to about 33K.
What could have been going on there?
>> But then how would anything over 4 KHz make it through my POTS
>> voice line to the CO?
>
> It wouldn't. Where there are multiple channels on a single
> pair of copper wires, it's between the CO and a road-side
> cabinet. The subscriber line is _relatively_ narrow. With 1000
> Hz as a reference, the passband is -3 dB at 600 and 1600 Hz, -10
> dB at ~125 and 2000 Hz, -20 dB at 90 and 2600 Hz and -30 dB at 25
> and 5000 Hz. If the signal is going beyond the CO or that
> roadside cabinet, it's almost certainly digitized and anything
> about 3500 Hz is lost in the A->D conversion (intentionally).
That's what I thought -- there's no way for me to get more than one
voice-quality signal out on my single line. I suppose I could get
several data signals out simultaneously on various frequencies
within that band, though. Alexander Graham Bell was actually
working on a device to do that with multiple telegraph signals along
one pair of wire when he got sidetracked into the telephone.
[Louise, 1995?-2011]
>> This is the first time since 1972
>> that my parents' house hasn't had at least one cat.
>
> That's got to be hard on them. Have they started auditioning a
> replacement yet?
No, not yet. They may in a little while, but they're also
considering what may happen when they eventually move out of the house.
> At this time, when Kiri leaves
> (she's 15 now), I think we'll continue to make do with Good Sam
> and Smokie (each about 10 now).
When Allegra died in '07, leaving Louise an only cat, my parents
probably would have gotten a second cat to keep Louise company,
except that Louise had never gotten along with Allegra in the ten
years they'd shared the house. Also, by then Louise required a
considerable amount of care. Now that she's gone, my parents can
wax the hardwood floors and repaint the basement floor without
having to worry about Louise stripping the finish and paint.
I saw a post in this NG about a LUG in Tempe -- is that convenient
to you? The LUG here has members who drive an hour or more to
attend, as AFAIK it's the only one between NYC and Albany.
Adam
Jim Beard
> That reminds me... back in my 56K dialup days, I bought one cheap
> phone that worked adequately as a phone, but whenever it was
> connected, even on-hook, my modem connection went down to about
> 33K. What could have been going on there?
My WAG is that the signal/noise ratio on the line forced the
modem to drop back to quadrature amplitude mdulation, which is
more robust in noisy conditions.
Adam
> On 07/13/2011 07:59 PM, Adam wrote:
>> That reminds me... back in my 56K dialup days, I bought one cheap
>> phone that worked adequately as a phone, but whenever it was
>> connected, even on-hook, my modem connection went down to about
>> 33K. What could have been going on there?
>
> My WAG is that the signal/noise ratio on the line forced the modem to
> noisy conditions.
Thanks, Jim! But how could that cheap phone reduce the s/n when it
was on-hook? I didn't /hear/ any additional noise when I used any
of the phones on that line.
Adam
unruh
A phone on hook is not on hook. Otherwise the ring signal could not get
through. It might disconnect the microphone and the speaker, and present
a higher impedance to the phone line, but it is not infinite. One one of
my phones, I can hear people talking on other phones when that on is
hung up on the ringer speaker .
> Adam
Jim Beard
I am not the electronics tech, but I do know that adding
equipment to a comms circuit can and does affect electrical
properties that affect S/N.
And even when on-hook, a phone may be drawing current. In the
way-old days, one phone per home was normal. When people added
two, or three, or more, it was very convenient for those in the
home but at some point you had to call up the telco and ask them
to make an adjustment on the line or none of them would work.
Something about Ringer-Equivalents or something like that.
And bear in mind, the starting point on this was a WAG. I may be
wrong. But the drop to 33K fits so nicely with a shift down to
QAM that I think that is probably what happened.
Moe Trin
<ivlbh6$qgi$1...@dont-email.me>, Adam wrote:
>Moe Trin wrote:
["new" OfficeJet 4315v needing a 2-conductor RJ-11 cable]
>>> I took the cover off the kitchen jack (which is where the computer
>>> et al. are connected to), and the yellow wire wasn't connected to
>>> anything, from green to red was about 51 V DC, and to my surprise
>>> from the black to the red was about 2 V AC
>> Not completely unexpected - what's the voltage (if any) between
>> black and yellow?
>I just measured all six combinations. G-R about 51 VDC (and R-G -51
>VDC), B-G and B-R about 2.1 VAC. Y isn't connected to the phone
>jack, but Y-G and Y-R are about 1.8 VAC, and B-Y about 180-350 mVAC.
> I'm not sure what conclusions to draw from these, though.
Most likely (need a 'scope to be sure) that's AC line pickup. If
there were some phone connected, the BY levels would be much reduced
(loading). If the line was connected at the demarch, the BY <-> RG
difference would be minimal. As it is now, BY is floating and any
noise/hum picked up has no convenient discharge path or load.
>> As the second pair should be disconnected at the demarch
>Well, I don't think fiddling around at the box outside for the
>entire building would be a good idea.
Good idea - the owner may get unhappy (never mind the telco).
>The voltages may even be different at my bedroom jack, but I don't
>think it's worth measuring those.
I wouldn't expect them to be so.
>> If you stop and think about it, since the 1930s when REA was
>> setting specs on multi-pair cables for rural telephone line,
>> detectable crosstalk generally is an equipment failure.
>Which still leaves me wondering /why/ the OJ needs a 2-conductor
>cable, though.
I don't have a good reason either.
>>> BTW the OJ manual explains that it draws a small amount of
>>> power while switched off, and that more than 72 hours without
>>> power might cause it to forget things like the name and number
>>> for the header of outgoing faxes.
>> All that means is they are using a large capacitor as a
>> rechargeable battery, and the 72 hours is a worst case.
>But then why would it draw 3W/7VA when powered off?
Because it isn't off - is has some (low power) circuitry running that
likely handles such things as power on/off "switching" - like the TV
remote control able to turn things on because it's part-way on already.
>Wouldn't maintaining its configuration need, at most, milliamps?
microamps more likely.
>> My old Fisher stereo uses the same mechanism to store tuning
>> information, but has a real kechunk style power switch. If I
>> don't turn it on for at least a few minutes every other week, it
>> forgets the presets,
>My 1984 receiver is like that too. The manual has the schematic,
>but offhand I can't see which capacitor that is.
It would be a large one just downstream from a diode, and only
connected to a single MSI or LSI chip.
>> "dropping"? Sure, but the call is interrupted (you can't talk
>> while the fax is in use). It's a variation on "Call Waiting".
>Except since the only voice phone that works with is the one plugged
>into the OJ, it sounds more like a relay or something inside the OJ
>switching the signal between its "phone out" jack and its fax
>circuitry. Nothing to do with the telco.
Are you sure? How did that voice connection suddenly appear on the
wires that had been doing a fax? ;-) Phones connected to the same
line would be usable, but there'd be a lot of extra hoop jumping and
the one connected to the OJ _must_ be one used.
>I suppose if I were to use any other phone here, I'd hear the entire
>fax transmission, but its S/N ratio would probably be too low for a
>successful faxing.
Nope - while you are using the voice line, the fax is suspended.
>That reminds me... back in my 56K dialup days, I bought one cheap
>phone that worked adequately as a phone, but whenever it was
>connected, even on-hook, my modem connection went down to about 33K.
> What could have been going on there?
As others have explained - an on-hook phone is still a load. It _MAY_
also effect the "near echo" correction in the modem. When modems
connect, that initial screaming back-and-forth is the modems attempting
to agree on a data format (which you see as the connection rate) AND
compensating for distortions in the received waveforms caused by echos
near and far and phase shift. Your modem probably has a statistics
command - on a USR, it's ATI11 (ati eleven), and data reported include
Preemphasis (-dB) 6/4
Recv/Xmit Level (-dBm) 28/10
Near Echo Loss (dB) 26
Far Echo Loss (dB) 59
SNR (dB) 37
Here, the "near echo" is larger than I'd like to see, but still usable.
>That's what I thought -- there's no way for me to get more than one
>voice-quality signal out on my single line.
Correct
>I suppose I could get several data signals out simultaneously on
>various frequencies within that band, though. Alexander Graham Bell
>was actually working on a device to do that with multiple telegraph
>signals along one pair of wire when he got sidetracked into the
>telephone.
Limited technical knowledge - multiplexing came into being after they
figured out resonant circuits and thus added AC at various frequencies
in place of the single interrupted DC signal.
[Louise, 1995?-2011]
>> Have they started auditioning a replacement yet?
>No, not yet. They may in a little while, but they're also considering
>what may happen when they eventually move out of the house.
Depends where they move to - but that is a definite concern. Right
now, the Phoenix recycling center is begging people to come in and
adopt a cat (I think I heard they state "free") and dogs (1-3 year
old for $15 inclusive). They're quite overcrowded.
>> At this time, when Kiri leaves (she's 15 now), I think we'll
>> continue to make do with Good Sam and Smokie (each about 10 now).
>When Allegra died in '07, leaving Louise an only cat, my parents
>probably would have gotten a second cat to keep Louise company,
>except that Louise had never gotten along with Allegra in the ten
>years they'd shared the house.
"MY TURF!!!" Yeah, we've got a similar - and poor Good Sam bears
the brunt of the abuse.
>Also, by then Louise required a considerable amount of care.
I don't even want to think about what we've spent at the vet thus far
this year. Additionally, Kiri has been placed on a diet and has been
down-right cranky.
>Now that she's gone, my parents can wax the hardwood floors and
>repaint the basement floor without having to worry about Louise
>stripping the finish and paint.
We just has the second bathroom re-tiled, and Good Sam and Smokie
were trying to help the tile guy - and the plumber.
>I saw a post in this NG about a LUG in Tempe -- is that convenient
>to you?
They're not a group I'm familiar with. They're about a half mile off
one of the freeways - about 30 miles from me. The other facility in
Chandler is two or three miles further.
>The LUG here has members who drive an hour or more to attend, as
>AFAIK it's the only one between NYC and Albany.
I haven't paid attention for several years, but there were at least
two other groups in this area, including one at a community college
I've been known to attend.
Old guy
Adam
> On 2011-07-14, Adam<ad...@address.invalid> wrote:
>> But how could that cheap phone reduce the s/n when it
>> was on-hook?
>
> through. It might disconnect the microphone and the speaker, and present
> a higher impedance to the phone line, but it is not infinite.
So would it be reasonable to assume that that cheap phone had an
"unacceptably low" impedance, or modified the signal in some way,
when it was "on hook"?
Adam
Adam
> On 07/13/2011 08:45 PM, Adam wrote:
>> But how could that cheap phone reduce the s/n when
>> it was on-hook?
>
> comms circuit can and does affect electrical properties that affect S/N.
So my guess is that the cheap phone either had an "unacceptably low"
impedance, or modified the signal in some other way, even when it
was on hook.
> And even when on-hook, a phone may be drawing current. In the way-old
> days, one phone per home was normal. When people added two, or three, or
In the old days, that wasn't legal. ;-) Only the telco could
legally do that.
> more, it was very convenient for those in the home but at some point you
> had to call up the telco and ask them to make an adjustment on the line
> or none of them would work. Something about Ringer-Equivalents or
> something like that.
I remember reading about ringer equivalences A and B, and IIRC the
total had (has?) to be no more than 5.0, or the phone company's
current might not be enough to power all the ringers.
BTW a neon bulb (with dropping resistor) between "tip" and "ring"
(red and green wires) makes a cheap visual ring indicator. Ringer
Equivalence unknown. :-)
Adam
Adam
> On Wed, 13 Jul 2011, in the Usenet newsgroup
[moving some stuff over from "mp3 files on dvd" thread]
[partitioning]
>>> I don't see any of the O/S partitions that currently contain
>>> more than about 12 GB.
>
>> My root partition right now has about 11 GB used (of 19 GB),
>> and I tend to install lots of things I seldom use, so I think
>> before my next install, I'll make the root partition 25 or 30
>> GB. I can take that out of /accounts, which ended up with a
>> lot less on it than I expected.
>
> The workstations tend to be under 5 GB, but the servers get
> messy as they have lots of semi-volatile data and "stuff".
I try not to keep too much personal data in /home -- not personal as
in "private," but as in "stuff the OS and other users don't need,"
such as virtual machines and miscellaneous downloads. Some of it is
in /accounts/adam (directories linked to /home/adam), but most of it
is intentionally on sdb (external 1 TB HD), places like /download
and /mnt/vm.
20 GB (meaning 19 GB) is still adequate for my Linux root partition,
but I'd feel a little better if it was a little larger. I figure
that planning the partition scheme in advance will save a lot of
effort later on -- and I've also noticed that IMHO I'm getting a
little better at planning partitioning each time.
["new" OfficeJet 4315v needing a 2-conductor RJ-11 cable]
>>>> I took the cover off the kitchen jack (which is where the
>>>> computer et al. are connected to), and [...]
>> I just measured all six combinations. G-R about 51 VDC (and
>> R-G -51 VDC), B-G and B-R about 2.1 VAC. Y isn't connected to
>> the phone jack, but Y-G and Y-R are about 1.8 VAC, and B-Y
>> about 180-350 mVAC. I'm not sure what conclusions to draw from
>> these, though.
>
> Most likely (need a 'scope to be sure) that's AC line pickup.
[...]
> As it is now, BY is floating and any noise/hum picked up has no
> convenient discharge path or load.
Makes sense. For a few hundred feet or so, the power lines and
phone lines for this complex are together. At the nearest pole out
on the street, I can see both sets for this complex going down the
pole into the ground.
So... does that mean I can get "free power" from the voltage in the
BY pair? ;-)
>> Well, I don't think fiddling around at the box outside for the
>> entire building would be a good idea.
>
> Good idea - the owner may get unhappy (never mind the telco).
Also any neighbors who might think I'm into tapping phones.
>> Which still leaves me wondering /why/ the OJ needs a
>> 2-conductor cable, though.
>
> I don't have a good reason either.
If the OJ were connected to the second line of a two-line account
(perhaps a dedicated fax number), could that be to avoid crosstalk
from the first line? I'm assuming there's some reason somewhere, as
it would have been cheaper for HP to just ignore the other two
conductors.
>>>> BTW the OJ manual explains that it draws a small amount of
>>>> power while switched off [...]
>> But then why would it draw 3W/7VA when powered off?
>
> Because it isn't off - it has some (low power) circuitry running
> that likely handles such things as power on/off "switching" -
> like the TV remote control able to turn things on because it's
> part-way on already.
That's about 25 mA. What could it be doing when it's off that needs
that much power?
>> My 1984 receiver is like that too. The manual has the
>> schematic, but offhand I can't see which capacitor that is.
>
> It would be a large one just downstream from a diode, and only
> connected to a single MSI or LSI chip.
Okay, I think I found it: "C415 2200/6.3V". I know that's not
terribly large, though. I gather that these days they actually make
1 F capacitors.
>> I suppose if I were to use any other phone here, I'd hear the
>> entire fax transmission, but its S/N ratio would probably be
>> too low for a successful faxing.
>
> Nope - while you are using the voice line, the fax is suspended.
Does the fax actually check to see whether some other phone on the
line (besides the one plugged into it) is in use? I suppose it
could tell because the line voltage would be significantly lower
than its on-hook value of ~50V DC.
>> That reminds me... back in my 56K dialup days, I bought one
>> cheap phone that worked adequately as a phone, but whenever it
>> was connected, even on-hook, my modem connection went down to
>> about 33K. What could have been going on there?
>
> As others have explained - an on-hook phone is still a load.
I understand now. It looks like the manufacturer saved a few cents
by leaving out some parts that anyone without a modem would never
notice. Once I figured out why my connections had become so much
slower, I gave that phone away and bought a decent-quality one.
> Your modem probably has a statistics command - on a USR, it's
> ATI11 (ati eleven)
What I have connected right now is a Conexant Winmodem with a
Linuxant driver, and it doesn't like that command. I also have
another PCI modem (not sure if it needs software) and two external
56K modems, one ModemBlaster and one USR. I know that because I
/finally/ finished my "organize computer hardware" project. :-)
This place is still cluttered, but at least all the computer pieces
are organized and put away, except for some that are getting pitched
like the Centronics printer cables, any HD under 1 GB, and anything
else that has a near-zero chance of being reused or reusable.
I remember that a few years ago (2006?) we had a long discussion
here about my frequently-dropped dialup connections (IIRC I was
using the external ModemBlaster then), and my modem had all sorts of
commands to report all sorts of statistics. I'm still pretty sure
it was something on that ISP's end, though.
Speaking of ending dialup accounts, my father finally decided to
cancel his NetZero paid dialup account now that nearly all his
correspondents use his Verizon e-address. I'd read online how hard
it is to cancel with them, but my father was forewarned and inured
to their numerous offers to get him to stay with them, and actually
got it cancelled on the first (lengthy) phone call. NetZero's next
step caught me by surprise, though. They immediately changed his
pay account into a free one. I suppose they were hoping he'd come
back. That explained why the only email my father got when he
dialed up and opened OE was the stock "Free accounts can't use
POP3", although I found 100+ messages in his account through their
webmail interface. Actually that worked out well. I showed him how
he could still access that account through the webmail interface
using Verizon DSL on either of his computers, and he still has 10
hours per month of dialup as a backup to DSL (but as a free account,
it includes lots of ads onscreen). The only remaining question, of
course, is whether NetZero will stop billing his credit card.
BTW, anyone interested in getting a free NetZero and/or Juno dialup
account to work under Linux can check out
http://mysite.verizon.net/adam707/netzero-juno.txt . I certainly
hope somebody's finding it useful, after the effort I put into it.
[dialysis]
>>> One would think they'd be aware of this, and take "some"
>>> precautions to reduce the risk.
[...]
> I was thinking more in terms related to heart conditions - blood
> pressure, blood chemistry and the stuff they normally are
> concerned with in heart patients.
The dialysis machines there automatically measure BP while they're
running, and IIRC signal an alarm if it's outside of limits. And
the dialysis center did a fairly comprehensive blood workup every
month, although I'm not sure whether they measured the same things
that a cardiologist would want.
>> Also, I talked to one of the techs who'd been working (at
>> various dialysis centers) for about 25 years, and dialysis in
>> general is considerably easier (for both the staff and
>> patient) and less risky by far than it was then, not to mention
>> that the patient's quality of life outside of dialysis is far
>> better as well.
>
> One would hope so - there has been a lot of medical progress in
> those 25 years. And dialysis isn't that old a technology to
> begin with (1943-1950 depending on your definitions).
Hmm. In "The Making of a Surgeon" by William A. Nolen (surgical
intern and resident at Bellevue in the 1950s), he mentioned that at
that time they had one of the first artificial kidneys in the
country. You might want to read it -- he tells how he went from an
ignorant intern to a competent surgeon in those five years.
> I'm just disappointed that two of the insurance
> companies I have (health and life) are still flooding me with
> regular offers of coverage through AARP.
And I expect that will happen to me too, if/when I join. Actually I
got my first membership offer when I was in my early 40s, so already
I'm not sure how reliable their information is.
[Louise, 1995?-2011]
>> When Allegra died in '07, leaving Louise an only cat, my
>> parents probably would have gotten a second cat to keep Louise
>> company, except that Louise had never gotten along with
>> Allegra in the ten years they'd shared the house.
>
> "MY TURF!!!" Yeah, we've got a similar - and poor Good Sam
> bears the brunt of the abuse.
Oh, no, Allegra would have been happy to share the way she did with
the previous cat, but Louise immediately decided that Allegra was an
enemy -- and would hiss, snarl, and strike out, but only from a safe
distance. The worst thing Allegra would do was to glare at Louise,
and then only if provoked.
Adam
Moe Trin
<ivppnm$jt7$1...@dont-email.me>, Adam wrote:
>unruh wrote:
>> A phone on hook is not on hook. Otherwise the ring signal could not
>> get through. It might disconnect the microphone and the speaker,
>> and present a higher impedance to the phone line, but it is not
>> infinite.
>So would it be reasonable to assume that that cheap phone had an
>"unacceptably low" impedance, or modified the signal in some way,
>when it was "on hook"?
You're assuming it to be resistive. The reactance (capacitive OR
inductive) may be significant, and there could be a Zener type of
voltage/resistance curve. The two REN values are specified at low
frequencies (A = 20 Hz, B = 15-68 Hz), but that says nothing to how
the device may appear to the mid-range audio frequencies used in
the various modem modulations.
Old guy
Moe Trin
<ivqpu0$ps7$1...@dont-email.me>, Adam wrote:
>Moe Trin wrote:
[partitioning]
>> The workstations tend to be under 5 GB, but the servers get
>> messy as they have lots of semi-volatile data and "stuff".
>I try not to keep too much personal data in /home -- not personal as
>in "private," but as in "stuff the OS and other users don't need,"
>such as virtual machines and miscellaneous downloads. Some of it is
>in /accounts/adam (directories linked to /home/adam), but most of it
>is intentionally on sdb (external 1 TB HD), places like /download
>and /mnt/vm.
/opt, /srv, and the illustrious /{usr|var}/local can be huge.
>20 GB (meaning 19 GB) is still adequate for my Linux root partition,
>but I'd feel a little better if it was a little larger. I figure
>that planning the partition scheme in advance will save a lot of
>>effort later on -- and I've also noticed that IMHO I'm getting a
>little better at planning partitioning each time.
Obviously it's going to depend on what the system is used for, but a
full "bells and whistles" install of most Linux distributions will
usually be under about 10 GB. The non-standard stuff can be where
you start bulking up.
["new" OfficeJet 4315v needing a 2-conductor RJ-11 cable]
>> Most likely (need a 'scope to be sure) that's AC line pickup.
[...]
>> As it is now, BY is floating and any noise/hum picked up has no
>> convenient discharge path or load.
>Makes sense. For a few hundred feet or so, the power lines and
>phone lines for this complex are together. At the nearest pole out
>on the street, I can see both sets for this complex going down the
>pole into the ground.
The REA specifications for telephone cables were pretty rigorous about
requiring each pair being twisted (I vaguely recall it being a minimum
of 4 turns per foot) that such parallel routing has minimal effect on
induced signals. The "larger" cables (memory, but I think it was a
requirement at even 6 or 10 pair cable) also require that the groups
of pairs be twisted, and at the ~50 pair level, the pairs were twisted
into groups of ~10-15, and those groups were then twisted. That
requirement was to reduce cross-talk, but would also have some effect
on external pickup.
>So... does that mean I can get "free power" from the voltage in the
>BY pair? ;-)
Sure - just not very much of it. You can also get power out of the
RF you could pick up with an antenna. (A project from a LONG time ago
rectified the RF from a broadly tuned crystal set - for the lack of a
better description - and used that power to supply the operating volts
for a low power amplifier.)
>>> But then why would it draw 3W/7VA when powered off?
>> Because it isn't off - it has some (low power) circuitry running
>> that likely handles such things as power on/off "switching"
>That's about 25 mA. What could it be doing when it's off that needs
>that much power?
We could tell you - but then we'd... never mind.
>> It would be a large one just downstream from a diode, and only
>> connected to a single MSI or LSI chip.
>Okay, I think I found it: "C415 2200/6.3V". I know that's not
>terribly large, though. I gather that these days they actually make
>1 F capacitors.
Economics - those big suckers get horribly expensive never mind getting
quite (physically) large. (Very quick examples - Mallory used to build
a 1 F/20 VDC aluminum that was $175 in quantities up to 99, and was
3 inch diameter by 8 5/8 inch long while a 0.01 F/ 25 V was under $10
and 1 3/8 x 3.0.) There's also a law of diminishing returns, where the
larger capacitors have higher leakage currents. No, it's best to keep
the load in the nanoamps at most - less if possible.
>> Nope - while you are using the voice line, the fax is suspended.
>Does the fax actually check to see whether some other phone on the
>line (besides the one plugged into it) is in use?
No
>I suppose it could tell because the line voltage would be
>significantly lower than its on-hook value of ~50V DC.
True - but what about when the fax already has the line off-hook?
>> Your modem probably has a statistics command - on a USR, it's
>> ATI11 (ati eleven)
>What I have connected right now is a Conexant Winmodem with a
>Linuxant driver, and it doesn't like that command.
No surprise - the Hayes ATI command provided Information, but nothing
was standardized. For that matter, the ATI11 isn't listed in the
actual manual of my USRs but shows up on the "AT$" (on-line help
command) only. One Rockwell manual suggests AT%L and AT%Q as being
similar in function, while a second doesn't seem to list a comparable
command.
>I also have another PCI modem (not sure if it needs software) and two
>external 56K modems, one ModemBlaster and one USR. I know that
>because I /finally/ finished my "organize computer hardware" project.
> :-)
Showoff! On the modems, look for an FCC-ID number - perhaps on a
paper label stuck to the back of the PC card. Alternative - plug it
in and 'lspci' to get the PCI-ID numbers. I suppose you have no paper
manual for any of them.
>This place is still cluttered, but at least all the computer pieces
>are organized and put away, except for some that are getting pitched
>like the Centronics printer cables, any HD under 1 GB, and anything
>else that has a near-zero chance of being reused or reusable.
How much under 1 GB? Last month, I installed an old Seagate 540 MB
as /dev/hdb on a PIII and set it all for use as swap. Keeping swap
separate from the data and/or O/S drive speeds up access a bit.
>Speaking of ending dialup accounts, my father finally decided to
>cancel his NetZero paid dialup account now that nearly all his
>correspondents use his Verizon e-address. [...] NetZero's next
>step caught me by surprise, though. They immediately changed his
>pay account into a free one. I suppose they were hoping he'd come
>back. [...] and he still has 10 hours per month of dialup as a
>backup to DSL (but as a free account, it includes lots of ads
>onscreen).
That's still a reasonable option. I'm still using a dialup account as
a backup and a "traveling" account I can access from most places in
the country.
>The only remaining question, of course, is whether NetZero will stop
>billing his credit card.
Depending - that can be trivial to fix, and can be fun if they persist.
[dialysis]
>> I was thinking more in terms related to heart conditions - blood
>> pressure, blood chemistry and the stuff they normally are
>> concerned with in heart patients.
>The dialysis machines there automatically measure BP while they're
>running, and IIRC signal an alarm if it's outside of limits. And
>the dialysis center did a fairly comprehensive blood workup every
>month, although I'm not sure whether they measured the same things
>that a cardiologist would want.
I suppose it depends on who is doing the lab work - the order form
from the vampire service I get to use lists maybe several hundred
available tests, but they also list a dozen "standard jobs" where one
job (panel) may provide 20 different tests. I think the worst I've
ever had was an order that resulted in 6 or 7 syringes/bottles. A
cousin of mine worked in a vampire lab in Philadelphia, and mentioned
that most of the testing is heavily automated.
>> One would hope so - there has been a lot of medical progress in
>> those 25 years. And dialysis isn't that old a technology to
>> begin with (1943-1950 depending on your definitions).
>Hmm. In "The Making of a Surgeon" by William A. Nolen (surgical
>intern and resident at Bellevue in the 1950s), he mentioned that at
>that time they had one of the first artificial kidneys in the
>country.
I borrowed a book from the library about the subject just around when
you had your transplant in 2009.
[Louise, 1995?-2011]
>> "MY TURF!!!" Yeah, we've got a similar - and poor Good Sam
>> bears the brunt of the abuse.
>Oh, no, Allegra would have been happy to share the way she did with
>the previous cat, but Louise immediately decided that Allegra was an
>enemy -- and would hiss, snarl, and strike out, but only from a safe
>distance. The worst thing Allegra would do was to glare at Louise,
>and then only if provoked.
Kiri (oldest) was queen of the house and tolerated Sandy. When Good
Sam and Smokie arrived about a week after Sandy died, she sort of
decided to tolerate Good Sam, but poor little Smokie was told in no
uncertain terms that she was to stay the heck out of Kiri's half of
the house. Still, they all go to the vet together for their annual
visit (screaming the blues from the back seat of the car more or less
in unison).
Old guy
Adam
> On Fri, 15 Jul 2011, in the Usenet newsgroup alt.os.linux.mandriva, in article
> <ivppnm$jt7$1...@dont-email.me>, Adam wrote:
>
>> So would it be reasonable to assume that that cheap phone had an
>> "unacceptably low" impedance, or modified the signal in some way,
>> when it was "on hook"?
>
> You're assuming it to be resistive. The reactance (capacitive OR
> inductive) may be significant
No, I intentionally said "impedance", which may have a phase
component and/or vary by frequency.
> and there could be a Zener type of voltage/resistance curve.
I suppose that when anything on that line, including the modem, was
off-hook, the voltage would be only a few volts at most.
Anyway, the key point was that whenever that cheap phone was
connected to the phone line, for some reason it slowed down my
dialup connection by about one-third. Just to get to that point
took me a little while, as I hadn't expected an on-hook phone to be
the cause. How do decent-quality phones prevent that?
I suppose that the moral is, at least sometimes, you get what you
pay for.
Adam
Adam
> On Fri, 15 Jul 2011, in the Usenet newsgroup alt.os.linux.mandriva, in article
> <ivqpu0$ps7$1...@dont-email.me>, Adam wrote:
[partitioning]
> /opt, /srv, and the illustrious /{usr|var}/local can be huge.
I've taken to installing software (the kind that's complex enough to
need an installation procedure, e.g. Firefox) in /opt, with a link
in /usr/local/bin. /usr/local gets backed up nightly, so I don't
want it to be too large. Of course my individual settings for that
app, whatever it is, are in ~, which also gets backed up nightly.
> Obviously it's going to depend on what the system is used for, but a
> full "bells and whistles" install of most Linux distributions will
> usually be under about 10 GB. The non-standard stuff can be where
> you start bulking up.
Which I put into /opt (Firefox, OpenOffice.org, et al.), so now my
/opt is over 1 GB. I don't want to get to the point where disk
space used becomes a factor in deciding whether to install something.
["new" OfficeJet 4315v needing a 2-conductor RJ-11 cable]
>> So... does that mean I can get "free power" from the voltage in the
>> BY pair? ;-)
>
> Sure - just not very much of it. You can also get power out of the
> RF you could pick up with an antenna. (A project from a LONG time ago
> rectified the RF from a broadly tuned crystal set - for the lack of a
> better description - and used that power to supply the operating volts
> for a low power amplifier.)
I have a 1970s book with basically the same project, except IIRC it
uses a voltmeter for output. The author suggested building it in a
transparent box as a science fair project: "magic power meter".
>> I suppose [the OJ] could tell because the line voltage would be
>> significantly lower than its on-hook value of ~50V DC.
>
> True - but what about when the fax already has the line off-hook?
Well, in that case the machine /knows/ it's off-hook.
> the Hayes ATI command provided Information, but nothing
> was standardized.
That was another case of every manufacturer adding nonstandard
extensions to the so-called "Hayes standard". At least they all
followed the basic ones.
Back in my TRS-80 days, I couldn't get my little script to dial and
connect to CompuServe to work. I finally figured out that the RS
software was expecting a RS modem, which (nonstandard!) expected CD
before dialing, while I had a Hayes-compatible. (1200 bps in 1984,
wow!) IIRC I came up with a small patch to NOP out the call to the
"check for CD" subroutine in that spot.
> was standardized. For that matter, the ATI11 isn't listed in the
> actual manual of my USRs but shows up on the "AT$" (on-line help
> command) only.
Well, I learned not to go around trying every potential command,
because I did that once and think I hit on the undocumented "reflash
modem ROM" sequence.
>> I also have another PCI modem (not sure if it needs software) and two
>> external 56K modems, one ModemBlaster and one USR.
>
> On the modems, look for an FCC-ID number
I found the brand & model number of the PCI card one, and it's a
controllerless modem. It probably came with one of my earlier
systems. I'm not even sure whether it's worth keeping. And somehow
I seem to have numerous video cards, some dating back to the SVGA era.
>> any HD under 1 GB, and anything
>> else that has a near-zero chance of being reused or reusable.
>
> How much under 1 GB?
400-500 MB. I suppose they could be useful for an older system,
except I don't have any older systems, so I scrapped both.
>> NetZero's next
>> step caught me by surprise, though. They immediately changed his
>> pay account into a free one.
>
> That's still a reasonable option.
And it wouldn't have caught me by surprise if Dad had shown me the
email where they said they were doing just that.
>> The only remaining question, of course, is whether NetZero will stop
>> billing his credit card.
>
> Depending - that can be trivial to fix, and can be fun if they persist.
Fun if approached in the right spirit, of course. I'm having fun
with the junior college honor society merely by doing exactly what
they ask. When I was already a member and they sent me a second
invitation to join....
[dialysis]
>> I'm not sure whether they measured the same things
>> that a cardiologist would want.
>
> I suppose it depends on who is doing the lab work
And which tests the doctor orders.
> the order form
> from the vampire service I get to use lists maybe several hundred
> available tests, but they also list a dozen "standard jobs" where one
> job (panel) may provide 20 different tests.
I think that's standard everywhere. Even one of the cats had a CBC
which is a standard panel.
> I think the worst I've
> ever had was an order that resulted in 6 or 7 syringes/bottles.
My local post-transplant bloodwork is now usually 3 tubes. And,
since I have such good veins and don't complain much, they usually
sic one of the students on me.
My personal record was 15 tubes when I was at Yale-New Haven to get
on their transplant list. I asked the phlebotomist, who said that
her record was 22 tubes, on a patient who needed a complete lupus
workup.
BTW I'm now very grateful that my tx was done at Albany instead of
Yale-New Haven, because Albany is one of the pioneers in minimal
steroid use post-transplant. I was already completely off them by
the time I was discharged. Y-NH, like most tx centers, uses
steroids long-term -- they're effective at preventing rejection, but
the side effects are worse than the side effects of everything else
put together. Even during the few days I was on them, I could tell
they were starting to affect my psych meds. I hate to think what
shape I'd be in if I'd had to stay on them.
>> In "The Making of a Surgeon" by William A. Nolen (surgical
>> intern and resident at Bellevue in the 1950s), he mentioned that at
>> that time they had one of the first artificial kidneys in the
>> country.
>
> I borrowed a book from the library about the subject just around when
> you had your transplant in 2009.
Thank you.
[Louise, 1995?-2011]
> Kiri (oldest) was queen of the house and tolerated Sandy. When Good
> Sam and Smokie arrived about a week after Sandy died, she sort of
> decided to tolerate Good Sam, but poor little Smokie was told in no
> uncertain terms that she was to stay the heck out of Kiri's half of
> the house. Still, they all go to the vet together for their annual
> visit (screaming the blues from the back seat of the car more or less
> in unison).
If that's all they do, it's practically nothing. Louise got carsick
at both ends, and finally needed a litterbox in her carrier.
Adam
Moe Trin
<ivvd6n$m8l$1...@dont-email.me>, Adam wrote:
>Moe Trin wrote:
>> Adam wrote:
>>> So would it be reasonable to assume that that cheap phone had an
>>> "unacceptably low" impedance, or modified the signal in some way,
>>> when it was "on hook"?
>> You're assuming it to be resistive. The reactance (capacitive OR
>> inductive) may be significant
>No, I intentionally said "impedance", which may have a phase
>component and/or vary by frequency.
The latter is often the key
>> and there could be a Zener type of voltage/resistance curve.
>I suppose that when anything on that line, including the modem, was
>off-hook, the voltage would be only a few volts at most.
Not even that much - a milliwatt is usually excessive, and at (say)
600 ohms, so 0.775 Vrms or 1.1Vpk
>Anyway, the key point was that whenever that cheap phone was
>connected to the phone line, for some reason it slowed down my
>dialup connection by about one-third. Just to get to that point
>took me a little while, as I hadn't expected an on-hook phone to be
>the cause. How do decent-quality phones prevent that?
By not having their impedance plot on a network analyzer look like
the path of a drunken sailor, looping all over the place. How old is
your copy of Scott Mueller's "Upgrading and Repairing PCs"? Older
editions had a section describing the signal negotiations of various
modem modes. The higher data rate schemes depend on the phase angle
verses frequency plot be monotonic. If the extra phone has a resonance
near one of the modulation frequencies, it plays hell with the phase
angles.
Old guy
TJ
> On Fri, 15 Jul 2011, in the Usenet newsgroup alt.os.linux.mandriva, in article
> <ivqpu0$ps7$1...@dont-email.me>, Adam wrote:
>
>> So... does that mean I can get "free power" from the voltage in the
>> BY pair? ;-)
>
> Sure - just not very much of it. You can also get power out of the
> RF you could pick up with an antenna. (A project from a LONG time ago
> rectified the RF from a broadly tuned crystal set - for the lack of a
> better description - and used that power to supply the operating volts
> for a low power amplifier.)
>
have solar collectors in space that would "beam" the collected power
back to Earth, presumably to be picked up by antennas and used for
useful things. The concept that dumping that much additional energy on
the Earth in such a wasteful fashion would cause radiation burns and
cancer, not to mention weather extremes and climate changes, was
conveniently ignored.
TJ
Moe Trin
<ivvrib$k19$1...@dont-email.me>, Adam wrote:
>Moe Trin wrote:
>> /opt, /srv, and the illustrious /{usr|var}/local can be huge.
>I've taken to installing software (the kind that's complex enough to
>need an installation procedure, e.g. Firefox) in /opt, with a link
>in /usr/local/bin. /usr/local gets backed up nightly, so I don't
>want it to be too large. Of course my individual settings for that
>app, whatever it is, are in ~, which also gets backed up nightly.
Slightly different scheme - basically systems stuff only gets a full
backup monthly, and incrementals nightly after the overnight updates
and weekly to consolidate the nightly stuff. /home is backed up as
part of the /srv/ on the file servers, and they get a full backup
weekly (on different nights) and incrementals to pick up the current
stuff. Data that we use but isn't personal (such as RIR stats, RFCs,
standards, etc.) is also on a weekly schedule.
>Which I put into /opt (Firefox, OpenOffice.org, et al.), so now my
>/opt is over 1 GB. I don't want to get to the point where disk
>space used becomes a factor in deciding whether to install something.
New disks are cheap. But I do have a cron task that looks at disk
usage, and notifies me of stuff that is not being used.
[free power]
>> (A project from a LONG time ago rectified the RF from a broadly
>> tuned crystal set - for the lack of a better description - and used
>> that power to supply the operating volts for a low power amplifier.)
>I have a 1970s book with basically the same project, except IIRC it
>uses a voltmeter for output. The author suggested building it in a
>transparent box as a science fair project: "magic power meter".
;-) I know one of my cousins (who lived very near a 50 KW AM
station) used the free power to charge a small battery that provided
power for occasional use of a small lamp in an unpowered building.
>> the Hayes ATI command provided Information, but nothing was
>> standardized.
>That was another case of every manufacturer adding nonstandard
>extensions to the so-called "Hayes standard". At least they all
>followed the basic ones.
Followed? Yeah, though often it seemed coincidental. Heck, even
Hayes didn't exactly follow the Hayes command set.
>> On the modems, look for an FCC-ID number
>I found the brand & model number of the PCI card one, and it's a
>controllerless modem. It probably came with one of my earlier
>systems. I'm not even sure whether it's worth keeping.
I've never bothered. The HP desktop we bought in late 2009 came with
one, and I never tried to get it working. It normally doesn't use a
modem, but the USR5637 I just bought works fine with it.
>And somehow I seem to have numerous video cards, some dating back to
>the SVGA era.
When the monitor becomes unusable, the video card usually gets tossed
with it.
>>> The only remaining question, of course, is whether NetZero will
>>> stop billing his credit card.
>> Depending - that can be trivial to fix, and can be fun if they
>> persist.
>Fun if approached in the right spirit, of course.
If they persist, it can be ``rewarding''.
>I'm having fun with the junior college honor society merely by doing
>exactly what they ask. When I was already a member and they sent me
>a second invitation to join....
You've heard the advertisements about how bank $FOO will better the
rates on credit cards than anyone else - that can be fun to milk, even
though our credit card balances average below $1k, and I wouldn't have
an account with this bank or that establishment if they paid me.
[blood work]
>> I think the worst I've ever had was an order that resulted in 6 or 7
>> syringes/bottles.
>My local post-transplant bloodwork is now usually 3 tubes. And,
>since I have such good veins and don't complain much, they usually
>sic one of the students on me.
I'm not as easy, especially if I get dehydrated. My last MRI (with a
dye enhancement) - poor nurse made four stabs before hitting pay-dirt.
>My personal record was 15 tubes when I was at Yale-New Haven to get
>on their transplant list. I asked the phlebotomist, who said that
>her record was 22 tubes, on a patient who needed a complete lupus
>workup.
Geez, why not just take a pint and be done with it?
[dialysis]
>> I borrowed a book from the library about the subject just around
>> when you had your transplant in 2009.
>Thank you.
It was new exposure to me - the cousin I mentioned working in a
vampire lab - she had all kinds of things go wrong before she finally
died of liver _and_ kidney and gastric cancer, but that's different.
[cats]
>> Still, they all go to the vet together for their annual visit
>> (screaming the blues from the back seat of the car more or less in
>> unison).
>If that's all they do, it's practically nothing. Louise got carsick
>at both ends, and finally needed a litterbox in her carrier.
Never had one get carsick, but the litter box? Oh, yeah.
Old guy
Adam
> On Sun, 17 Jul 2011, in the Usenet newsgroup
> alt.os.linux.mandriva, Adam wrote:
>> /usr/local gets backed up
>> nightly, so I don't want it to be too large. Of course my
>> individual settings for that app, whatever it is, are in ~,
>> which also gets backed up nightly.
>
> Slightly different scheme - basically systems stuff only gets a
> full backup monthly, and incrementals nightly after the overnight
> updates and weekly to consolidate the nightly stuff.
When I was designing my backup script, I decided not to use
incrementals, as a restore would involve every incremental since the
last full backup (of my chosen directories). I included the option
of a differential, so only the latest differential would be needed
in addition to the last full backup, but found it only saved about
30% of the disk space. Also, I don't back up anything that could be
reinstalled, like /usr (except /usr/local). Of course this is just
a home system, but I figure that puts me ahead of 95% of home users.
[free power]
> I know one of my cousins (who lived very near a 50 KW AM
> station) used the free power to charge a small battery that
> provided power for occasional use of a small lamp in an unpowered
> building.
I'm 3 miles from a 500W AM transmitter (57W at night). Think I
could get enough free power to run a night light?
>> it's
>> a controllerless modem. It probably came with one of my
>> earlier systems. I'm not even sure whether it's worth
>> keeping.
>
> I've never bothered. The HP desktop we bought in late 2009 came
> with one, and I never tried to get it working. It normally
> doesn't use a modem, but the USR5637 I just bought works fine
> with it.
Well, if I still need a faxmodem after this box or modem dies, I
suppose either I'll use a USB->RS232 adapter with an external modem
(both on hand here), or buy something similar to yours. Either way
I think I'll need to buy a USB powered hub sometime soon.
>> And somehow I seem to have numerous video cards, some dating
>> back to the SVGA era.
>
> When the monitor becomes unusable, the video card usually gets
> tossed with it.
I no longer remember which card went with which monitor. I'm sure
some of the cards are too outdated to be useful, but I'll leave that
for later. I just figured that any card I still had was working the
last time I tried it, and anything with a VGA connector was a video
card.
Speaking of cards, does anybody know anything about onboard audio
vs. a sound card for digitizing my LPs and cassettes? How much
difference would that make? Can anyone recommend some inexpensive
but good sound cards for that purpose, since that would be its main
purpose?
[phone stuff moved in from other subthread]
>> Anyway, the key point was that whenever that cheap phone was
>> connected to the phone line, for some reason it slowed down my
>> dialup connection by about one-third. Just to get to that
>> point took me a little while, as I hadn't expected an on-hook
>> phone to be the cause. How do decent-quality phones prevent
>> that?
>
> By not having their impedance plot on a network analyzer look
> like the path of a drunken sailor, looping all over the place.
Which I assume requires a few inexpensive components, which is why
decent phones cost more than that cheap one.
> If the extra phone has a resonance
> near one of the modulation frequencies, it plays hell with the
> phase angles.
Which is why, I suppose, my connection dropped to the protocol used
for 33K, whatever it is.
BTW, would you happen to know the REN of a neon bulb (with
resistor)? I discovered it makes a cheap visual ring indicator,
although not a very bright one.
[blood work]
>> My personal record was 15 tubes when I was at Yale-New Haven to
>> get on their transplant list. I asked the phlebotomist, who
>> said that her record was 22 tubes, on a patient who needed a
>> complete lupus workup.
>
> Geez, why not just take a pint and be done with it?
Because each test or panel requires a different vial. I don't quite
understand the reason either, but my local lab has about 8 different
colors and sizes of tubes.
[cats]
> Never had one get carsick, but the litter box? Oh, yeah.
Louise's carrier eventually got labelled "Louise and her Travelling
Litterbox."
In other news, my LUG registered with O'Reilly, and each member gets
one free e-book. Just choosing one is going to take a while. Also,
apparently anyone registered with them gets 40% off when upgrading a
printed book, so my purchase of the 3rd edition (ca. 2000) of "Linux
in a Nutshell" for $1 might come in handy. OTOH Amazon will sell
the same book to anybody for about the same 40% off. Still, at
least I get to pick one free e-book.
And here is a puzzle for you and anyone, which you'll probably find
trivial. The puzzle is "find the source code" of the page at
http://drpeterjones.com/hidden/hidden.html .
And I am now Registered Linux User #536473. I should have done that
a while ago.
Adam
David W. Hodgins
> And here is a puzzle for you and anyone, which you'll probably find
> trivial. The puzzle is "find the source code" of the page at
> http://drpeterjones.com/hidden/hidden.html .
THE CAT SCREAMS AT MIDNIGHT.
In opera, just right click on the image and select "Inspect Element".
Regards, Dave Hodgins
--
Change nomail.afraid.org to ody.ca to reply by email.
(nomail.afraid.org has been set up specifically for
use in usenet. Feel free to use it yourself.)
Adam
> On Mon, 18 Jul 2011 19:11:31 -0400, Adam <ad...@address.invalid> wrote:
>
>> And here is a puzzle for you and anyone, which you'll probably find
>> trivial. The puzzle is "find the source code" of the page at
>> http://drpeterjones.com/hidden/hidden.html .
>
> THE CAT SCREAMS AT MIDNIGHT.
>
> In opera, just right click on the image and select "Inspect Element".
Thanks! I see it's encoded inside the page 'configuration.html',
but I'm not sure how /that/ page ever gets loaded. I'd already
found the message the brute force way with the search function of
"hexedit /proc/kcore" but I didn't know how it got there.
For anyone with too much time on their hands, the author of that
page has issued the same challenge to others: if anyone thinks
they've found a way to hide the HTML source of a page, he'll find it.
Remember when we thought this sort of thing was clever? :-)
Adam
David W. Hodgins
> David W. Hodgins wrote:
>> On Mon, 18 Jul 2011 19:11:31 -0400, Adam <ad...@address.invalid> wrote:
>>> And here is a puzzle for you and anyone, which you'll probably find
>>> trivial. The puzzle is "find the source code" of the page at
>>> http://drpeterjones.com/hidden/hidden.html .
>> THE CAT SCREAMS AT MIDNIGHT.
>> In opera, just right click on the image and select "Inspect Element".
>
> Thanks! I see it's encoded inside the page 'configuration.html',
> but I'm not sure how /that/ page ever gets loaded. I'd already
It's generated by the javascript that's generated by javascript.
It has code to try and grab the right click, but that can be
overridden in opera.
Moe Trin
<j005b8$621$1...@dont-email.me>, TJ wrote:
>Moe Trin wrote:
>> (A project from a LONG time ago rectified the RF from a broadly
>> tuned crystal set - for the lack of a better description - and
>> used that power to supply the operating volts for a low power
>> amplifier.)
>Chuckle. There's a very old idea in science fiction that someday we'd
>have solar collectors in space that would "beam" the collected power
>back to Earth, presumably to be picked up by antennas and used for
>useful things. The concept that dumping that much additional energy on
>the Earth in such a wasteful fashion would cause radiation burns and
>cancer, not to mention weather extremes and climate changes, was
>conveniently ignored.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space-based_solar_power
http://en.openei.org/wiki/Space_solar_power
Not to mention California Proposition 65 problems ("This substance is
known to the State of California to cause health problems"), and yet
two of the major experimental sites are in that state. The assumption
is that the receiving sites will be in unpopulated areas (such as the
Central Valley, near Fresno), and all you'll have is a bunch of cooked
birds or agricultural workers or something (the antennas are mostly
open, so the thought is to be able to grow regular crops beneath them).
Old guy
Adam
> On Mon, 18 Jul 2011 22:13:28 -0400, Adam <ad...@address.invalid> wrote:
>>
>> Thanks! I see it's encoded inside the page 'configuration.html',
>> but I'm not sure how /that/ page ever gets loaded. I'd already
>
> It's generated by the javascript that's generated by javascript.
> It has code to try and grab the right click, but that can be
> overridden in opera.
Ah, OK. Thanks! I installed Opera and saw how you found it. Even
a packet sniff was no help -- I expected to at least see a request
for "configuration.html". Reminds me of the Obfuscated C Code
Contest... or those copy-protected self-booting disks. ;-)
Adam
TJ
One day I expect California to ban sunlight as something hazardous to
health.
Something tells me that a coherent beam of energy powerful enough to be
broken up and widely distributed in useful quantities to a few million
people would do more than "cook" birds and ag workers. It would vaporize
them.
And how exactly do they expect to radiate all that extra energy back
into space after it's "used" and converted to heat, without raising
global temperatures?
TJ
Bobbie Sellers
The actual schemes called for the use of satellites in
geo-sychronous orbits to beam power to the specific areas
for collection not to have it spread out over farming
but located in areas neither populated nor farmed.
The microwave radiation would either be
converted directly to electricity or used to heat
the boilers of steam turbines to generate power.
If there was a disturbance that indicated the
power beam was moving off target the system
would either auto-correct or shut down.
The microwave power would replace the burning
of coal, oil, or natural gas thus improving the
Carbon balance.
It has problems of course as do all systems.
Sunlight is damaging to human health in
excessive quantity. I started having precancerous
lesion taken off back in my 40s. I had my
first squamous cell carcinoma taken off about
6 months ago.
Wear hats! Get your kids to wear hats
and good luck with that. Spend a small fortune
every year on sunblock if you can afford it.
bliss
Moe Trin
<j02ej4$5l9$1...@dont-email.me>, Adam wrote:
>Moe Trin wrote:
>> Slightly different scheme - basically systems stuff only gets a
>> full backup monthly, and incrementals nightly after the overnight
>> updates and weekly to consolidate the nightly stuff.
>When I was designing my backup script, I decided not to use
>incrementals, as a restore would involve every incremental since the
>last full backup (of my chosen directories). I included the option
>of a differential, so only the latest differential would be needed
>in addition to the last full backup, but found it only saved about
>30% of the disk space.
If you are referring to a catastrophic restore (everything is gone),
then yes. But if it's only a file or a directory to restore, it can
be less complicated. A part of the backup procedure here is that the
'stat' data (finename, owner, dates, size) of every item backed up on
"this" backup is put into a catalog file.
>Also, I don't back up anything that could be reinstalled, like /usr
>(except /usr/local). Of course this is just a home system, but I
>figure that puts me ahead of 95% of home users.
More like 99.9%, but yeah. One thing that comes in handy is a file
listing what is installed (ex: 'rpm -qa | sort > installed.rpms') and
where did it come from - it's great to be able to reinstall, but it's
very helpful if you can find the media/package/what-ever to install
from.
[free power]
>I'm 3 miles from a 500W AM transmitter (57W at night). Think I
>could get enough free power to run a night light?
LED, neon or electroluminescent panel? (0.5, 0.2, 0.03 W, but watch
the voltages.)
[old monitors/video cards]
>> When the monitor becomes unusable, the video card usually gets
>> tossed with it.
>I no longer remember which card went with which monitor. I'm sure
>some of the cards are too outdated to be useful, but I'll leave that
>for later. I just figured that any card I still had was working the
>last time I tried it, and anything with a VGA connector was a video
>card.
Given that the old stuff was often interlaced, and this mode doesn't
work so well on modern LCD monitors, it's likely just wasted space.
>Speaking of cards, does anybody know anything about onboard audio
>vs. a sound card for digitizing my LPs and cassettes? How much
>difference would that make?
You'd likely need to provide more details - brands, models
>> By not having their impedance plot on a network analyzer look
>> like the path of a drunken sailor, looping all over the place.
>Which I assume requires a few inexpensive components, which is why
>decent phones cost more than that cheap one.
A squirrelly impedance plot is usually poor design, rather than the
component quality.
>> If the extra phone has a resonance near one of the modulation
>> frequencies, it plays hell with the phase angles.
>Which is why, I suppose, my connection dropped to the protocol used
>for 33K, whatever it is.
v.34, which is the step beyond v.32 bis which did 14.4. Initially,
v34 only went to 28.8 But getting "full speed" does require a
clean line. If I can't get a v.90 or v.92, the system often drops
back to something under 26.4.
>BTW, would you happen to know the REN of a neon bulb (with
>resistor)? I discovered it makes a cheap visual ring indicator,
>although not a very bright one.
I don't doubt someone has tested it, but what _kind_ of neon bulb?
The NE-2 typically wanted a 100K resistor for 120 VAC, but the NE-2H
was a high output lamp with a typical 47K while the NE-51 wanted 220K.
As an A REN is about 5K, the REN of a neon bulb is likely pretty low.
[blood work]
>> Geez, why not just take a pint and be done with it?
>Because each test or panel requires a different vial. I don't quite
>understand the reason either, but my local lab has about 8 different
>colors and sizes of tubes.
In some cases, it's because the test isn't done at the local - one
test I get quarterly is done at a lab on the other side of the country
but still part of the same vampire service. Some of the tests also
require different preps.
>In other news, my LUG registered with O'Reilly, and each member gets
>one free e-book. Just choosing one is going to take a while.
Last I looked at the catalog, it was about 1200 on-line out of 1750
total titles.
>Also, apparently anyone registered with them gets 40% off when
>upgrading a OTOH Amazon will sell the same book to anybody for about
>the same 40% off.
Bargains that aren't always bargains - yup.
Old guy
Moe Trin
<j04049$ej4$1...@dont-email.me>, TJ wrote:
>One day I expect California to ban sunlight as something hazardous to
>health.
The Beach Boys would be crushed.
>Something tells me that a coherent beam of energy powerful enough to
>be broken up and widely distributed in useful quantities to a few
>million people would do more than "cook" birds and ag workers. It
>would vaporize them.
Actually, I don't believe the energy density would be that much higher
than sunlight. I've seen suggestions of 10:1 higher, but the receiving
antenna should (effectively) block much more than that (20-30 dB?) from
going _through_ the antenna to toast those beneath it. Don't forget
that the receiving antennas are going to be HUGE (10s of KM^2).
>And how exactly do they expect to radiate all that extra energy back
>into space after it's "used" and converted to heat, without raising
>global temperatures?
Probably the same way they radiate all that extra energy from existing
supplies. I suspect there would be some trade-off of less efficient
existing plants shut down when/if spaced based power became available.
Old guy
Moe Trin
<j046ic$pnt$1...@dont-email.me>, Bobbie Sellers wrote:
> The actual schemes called for the use of satellites in
>geo-sychronous orbits to beam power to the specific areas
>for collection not to have it spread out over farming
>but located in areas neither populated nor farmed.
See the URLs I included. Briefly, the antennas would be mounted on
poles above (covering) agricultural land - literally square miles of
it - much like the radio-astronomy antenna at Arecibo in Puerto Rico.
The mesh would be something resembling chain link fencing or chicken
wire though likely of substantially thicker gauge.
> The microwave radiation would either be
>converted directly to electricity or used to heat
>the boilers of steam turbines to generate power.
The former - the energy density wouldn't have a chance to detectably
heating water (or any other fluid).
> Sunlight is damaging to human health in
>excessive quantity. I started having precancerous
>lesion taken off back in my 40s. I had my
>first squamous cell carcinoma taken off about
>6 months ago.
Efudex (Fluorouracil) - 28 days of hell because there were too many to
take off with a nitrogen gun. It was only after that treatment that
they mentioned a steroidal cream might reduce some of the itching
caused by the drug.
> Wear hats! Get your kids to wear hats
>and good luck with that. Spend a small fortune
>every year on sunblock if you can afford it.
What she said!
Old guy
Adam
> In the Usenet newsgroup alt.os.linux.mandriva, Adam wrote:
[backups]
> A part of the backup procedure here is that the
> 'stat' data (filename, owner, dates, size) of every item backed up on
> "this" backup is put into a catalog file.
My backup script automatically does that for weekly and monthly
backups -- it's just tar -tvf backupfile > listfile , but then the
backup file is a 200-400 MB tarball, so having to run it on one of
the daily backups if necessary doesn't take very long.
> More like 99.9%, but yeah. One thing that comes in handy is a file
> listing what is installed (ex: 'rpm -qa | sort > installed.rpms') and
> where did it come from - it's great to be able to reinstall, but it's
> very helpful if you can find the media/package/what-ever to install
> from.
That's a very good idea. I'll have to implement it. Maybe there's
already a list somewhere I could just copy. I can see where it
would be important to keep lists going back at least several weeks.
[free power]
>> I'm 3 miles from a 500W AM transmitter (57W at night). Think I
>> could get enough free power to run a night light?
>
> LED, neon or electroluminescent panel? (0.5, 0.2, 0.03 W, but watch
> the voltages.)
So it would actually be possible? (Probably at more of a cost for
parts than running a nightlight 24/7 would be, but hey, it's "free".)
[old monitors/video cards]
>> I no longer remember which card went with which monitor. I'm sure
>> some of the cards are too outdated to be useful, but I'll leave that
>> for later.
>
> Given that the old stuff was often interlaced, and this mode doesn't
> work so well on modern LCD monitors, it's likely just wasted space.
That's probably true, but I wouldn't be able to tell without trying
each of them, and the space isn't that much. Actually they're in a
bag in a carton, and the carton isn't going to get any smaller no
matter how much I remove from it.
> A squirrelly [telephone] impedance plot is usually poor design,
> rather than the component quality.
I was thinking they'd designed it using an inadequate number of
components, as components cost money. And if I wasn't using a 56K
modem, I would never have noticed.
>> BTW, would you happen to know the REN of a neon bulb (with
>> resistor)? I discovered it makes a cheap visual ring indicator,
>> although not a very bright one.
>
> I don't doubt someone has tested it, but what _kind_ of neon bulb?
> The NE-2 typically wanted a 100K resistor for 120 VAC, but the NE-2H
> was a high output lamp with a typical 47K while the NE-51 wanted 220K.
> As an A REN is about 5K, the REN of a neon bulb is likely pretty low.
Okay, so it sounds like it wouldn't be a problem if I ever wanted to
do it. I just counted and I have /seven/ devices plugged into my
phone line, plus DSL microfilters and a surge protector (in the
UPS), but only three of those emit any sort of ring sound. Well,
four if the cordless phone is off its base.
>> In other news, my LUG registered with O'Reilly, and each member gets
>> one free e-book. Just choosing one is going to take a while.
>
> Last I looked at the catalog, it was about 1200 on-line out of 1750
> total titles.
And I can safely assume that most of them, or at least the *nix
ones, are good books, as in "covers the topic clearly and
completely." Well, first comes choosing a college course for the
fall. I started last night, and a few of the interesting ones are
already filled.
>> Also, apparently anyone registered with them gets 40% off when
>> upgrading a [printed copy.] OTOH Amazon will sell the same
>> book to anybody for about the same 40% off.
>
> Bargains that aren't always bargains - yup.
I'm pretty good at watching out for those. I've seen things on eBay
sell for more than my local store charges. Right now I'm looking
there for more ink. On the OJ I printed out 18 8"x12" images,
normal quality on plain paper (to get an idea of what they'd look
like should I use photo paper), and that used up most of both ink
cartridges.
I've also noticed, although I see nothing wrong with it, some eBay
sellers slashing the item price and making up for it with shipping
charges. I bought 2000 CD envelopes on eBay for $28 plus $22
shipping, so they only pay commission on the $28. The company's own
web site charges $50 but with free shipping. ;-)
Adam
Adam
> Moe Trin wrote:
[backups]
>> One thing that comes in handy is a file
>> listing what is installed (ex: 'rpm -qa | sort > installed.rpms') and
>> where did it come from - it's great to be able to reinstall, but it's
>> very helpful if you can find the media/package/what-ever to install
>> from.
>
> That's a very good idea. I'll have to implement it. Maybe there's
> already a list somewhere I could just copy. I can see where it would be
> important to keep lists going back at least several weeks.
I thought this was worth sharing here:
It turns out I've been doing exactly that all along. My backups
include all of /var/log, and /var/log/security/rpm-qa.today (created
nightly by 'msec') appears to be exactly the result of "rpm -qa |
sort > /var/log/security/rpm-qa.today". There's also
/var/log/security/rpm-qa.yesterday which is exactly what it sounds
like, and /var/log/security/rpm-qa.diff which details all the
changes between the two.
Adam
Moe Trin
<j09jsk$4r7$1...@dont-email.me>, Adam wrote:
Moe Trin wrote:
[backups]
>> A part of the backup procedure here is that the 'stat' data
>> (filename, owner, dates, size) of every item backed up on "this"
>> backup is put into a catalog file.
>My backup script automatically does that for weekly and monthly
>backups -- it's just tar -tvf backupfile > listfile , but then the
>backup file is a 200-400 MB tarball, so having to run it on one of
>the daily backups if necessary doesn't take very long.
True - using stat picks up a bit more data (the other times, original
device and inode, link count), but that's more of historical use.
>> One thing that comes in handy is a file listing what is installed
>> (ex: 'rpm -qa | sort > installed.rpms') and where did it come from -
>> it's great to be able to reinstall, but it's very helpful if you can
>> find the media/package/what-ever to install from.
>That's a very good idea. I'll have to implement it. Maybe there's
>already a list somewhere I could just copy.
I suspect not - the rpm data is in the rpm database (probably in
/var/lib/rpm/) but thats in a Berkeley database form. The rpm query
is very quick (seconds), but the problem then becomes figuring out
where you got this/that package.
]It turns out I've been doing exactly that all along. My backups
]include all of /var/log, and /var/log/security/rpm-qa.today (created
]nightly by 'msec') appears to be exactly the result of "rpm -qa |
]sort > /var/log/security/rpm-qa.today". There's also
]/var/log/security/rpm-qa.yesterday which is exactly what it sounds
]like, and /var/log/security/rpm-qa.diff which details all the
]changes between the two.
So all you need is to find out where you got each package from.
[free power]
>>> I'm 3 miles from a 500W AM transmitter (57W at night).
>> LED, neon or electroluminescent panel? (0.5, 0.2, 0.03 W, but watch
>> the voltages.)
>So it would actually be possible?
Unlikely - the output of a rectenna would be in millivolts at a max
and that means a conversion to get the voltage required for the light.
Efficiencies would kill that, especially at night.
>(Probably at more of a cost for parts than running a nightlight 24/7
>would be, but hey, it's "free".)
I wouldn't expect the power to be enough to run the lamp for a few
seconds per day.
>> The NE-2 typically wanted a 100K resistor for 120 VAC, but the NE-2H
>> was a high output lamp with a typical 47K while the NE-51 wanted 220K.
>> As an A REN is about 5K, the REN of a neon bulb is likely pretty low.
>Okay, so it sounds like it wouldn't be a problem if I ever wanted to
>do it.
Probably more of a packaging problem than electrical.
>I just counted and I have /seven/ devices plugged into my phone line,
Why? Our house voice phone has three, and one of those is a phone
with a built-in answering machine and caller ID unit.
>plus DSL microfilters and a surge protector (in the UPS), but only
>three of those emit any sort of ring sound. Well, four if the cordless
>phone is off its base.
That can't be good for the modem data rates
[O'Reilly books]
>And I can safely assume that most of them, or at least the *nix
>ones, are good books, as in "covers the topic clearly and
>completely."
That's why I keep buying them. I also have a few Que books that do
well, but there are a few SAMs books that I can do without.
>Well, first comes choosing a college course for the fall. I started
>last night, and a few of the interesting ones are already filled.
A bit earlier than I'd expect.
>> Bargains that aren't always bargains - yup.
>I'm pretty good at watching out for those. I've seen things on eBay
>sell for more than my local store charges.
I see that without even including shipping. Plus if it doesn't work
the way I expected, I can take it back and bang on the return desk.
Old guy
Adam
> On Thu, 21 Jul 2011, in the Usenet newsgroup alt.os.linux.mandriva, in article
> <j09jsk$4r7$1...@dont-email.me>, Adam wrote:
[backups]
> ]My backups
> ]include all of /var/log, and /var/log/security/rpm-qa.today (created
> ]nightly by 'msec') appears to be exactly the result of "rpm -qa |
> ]sort > /var/log/security/rpm-qa.today".
>
> So all you need is to find out where you got each package from.
Am I supposed to be keeping records for each of my 2000+ packages?
;-) Probably most of those weren't explicitly installed by me, but
by the package manager as dependencies for the relatively few
packages I wanted to install.
>> I just counted and I have /seven/ devices plugged into my phone line,
>
> Why? Our house voice phone has three, and one of those is a phone
> with a built-in answering machine and caller ID unit.
Only three telephones for the entire house? I've got one phone in
the kitchen. My computer desk has the Officejet (fax) with the
"new" cordless phone plugged into it so I can interrupt voice calls
with faxes to/from the person I'm talking to, plus the dialup modem
and the DSL modem/router. The bedroom has an answering machine and
a phone plugged into it. Which ones am I supposed to give up? ;-)
>> only three of those emit any sort of ring sound. Well, four if the
>> cordless phone is off its base.
>
> That can't be good for the modem data rates
Well, I just tried it and I'm still getting over 50kbps down (and
20+ up), so it doesn't seem to be hurting much. (That's DTE speed,
not the "CONNECT 115200" DCE speed.)
[O'Reilly books]
> That's why I keep buying them.
Even in today's marketplace, there are still a few brand names I can
count on for good products. Besides O'Reilly books, I like Stanley
hand tools and Rubbermaid kitchen/storage stuff.
>> Well, first comes choosing a college course for the fall. I started
>> last night, and a few of the interesting ones are already filled.
>
> A bit earlier than I'd expect.
I'm not surprised; registration for fall actually started in April.
My first list had 23 courses, but it quickly went down to fewer
than 9 because some aren't being given that term, others have no
evening section, and a few are already filled. I'm still going on
the assumption that evening students are more mature and more
motivated than the average community college student, which
sometimes is the case.
I see Web Design will be offered again, but it's a good thing I took
it last year, because Verizon is going to drop FTP access to users'
personal web space next month. I'm afraid they're going to require
their customers to use the VZ web builder program, which makes the
web space practically useless to me.
Offhand, it looks like the various "free web space" services don't
allow FTP with free accounts either. One user had an interesting
comment about the ads displayed with one of the free servers.
They're based on the site's keywords, so in his case it displayed
ads for other businesses doing the same thing, meaning the
competition. So I may have a new project to add to my list: find
the least expensive web hosting that meets my (fairly undemanding)
requirements. (Recommendations, anyone?)
And speaking of my projects, yet another has expanded beyond what I
expected. I'd intended to just scan in a few of my best photos,
twiddle with GIMP, then print them on photo paper and hang them.
However, a day or two ago I got the idea of also making a sort of
collage of family photos. Just the narrowing down and arranging of
those will probably take a while. And I still haven't found the one
(ca. 1923) of newlyweds Grandpa on a motorcycle and Grandma in the
sidecar!
>> I've seen things on eBay sell for more than my local store charges.
>
> I see that without even including shipping.
And I'm sure eBay is counting on that too. "Auction fever," I
suppose. But if the winning bid is, say, $24 on an item sold in
stores for $20, who's winning there? OTOH I do intend to post my
eBay "blue star" award (50 positive feedback ratings) on my wall,
right next to my membership in the Procrastinator's Club of America
and other similar distinctions.
Adam
TJ
>
> And I'm sure eBay is counting on that too. "Auction fever," I suppose.
> But if the winning bid is, say, $24 on an item sold in stores for $20,
> who's winning there?
The seller, and eBay, of course. (eBay is The House, and The House
always wins.) And sometimes the buyer wins in that kind of transaction,
too. I'm thinking of those who don't have easy access even to local
stores, for one reason or another.
TJ
Adam
> On 07/23/2011 09:32 PM, Adam wrote:
>> But if the winning [eBay] bid is, say, $24 on an item sold
>> in stores for $20, who's winning there?
>
> The seller, and eBay, of course. (eBay is The House, and The House
> always wins.)
I hadn't thought of that, but you're right. I still don't
understand why people who have reasonable access to a store would
bid more than their local retail price, though. I suppose eBay's
"proxy bidding" encourages that because the next bidder's offer
starts at only a little bit above your current maximum bid.
> And sometimes the buyer wins in that kind of
> transaction, too. I'm thinking of those who don't have easy access
> even to local stores, for one reason or another.
That would be true too, although in that case ordering online or by
mail from some place like Amazon or NewEgg or L.L. Bean might be
cheaper. I suppose the most important thing is that everybody's
satisfied with the transaction.
Adam
Moe Trin
<j0fsn1$1vj$1...@dont-email.me>, Adam wrote:
>Moe Trin wrote:
[backups]
>> So all you need is to find out where you got each package from.
>Am I supposed to be keeping records for each of my 2000+ packages?
>;-) Probably most of those weren't explicitly installed by me, but
>by the package manager as dependencies for the relatively few
>packages I wanted to install.
If it was installed as part of the distribution - either directly from
a DVD/CD, or from the distribution's repository, no. What you need to
record is stuff you found under other rocks.
>> Why? Our house voice phone has three, and one of those is a phone
>> with a built-in answering machine and caller ID unit.
>Only three telephones for the entire house? I've got one phone in
>the kitchen. My computer desk has the Officejet (fax) with the
>"new" cordless phone plugged into it so I can interrupt voice calls
>with faxes to/from the person I'm talking to, plus the dialup modem
>and the DSL modem/router. The bedroom has an answering machine and
>a phone plugged into it. Which ones am I supposed to give up? ;-)
Actually, there are six phones and three phone lines - the others are
data. One phone in the kitchen, family room and bedroom - what more
do you need? The phones in the computer room are more work related
than personal.
>> That can't be good for the modem data rates
>Well, I just tried it and I'm still getting over 50kbps down (and
>20+ up), so it doesn't seem to be hurting much.
The 20+ up says differently. That should be above 26.4 and ideally
something above 30.0
[college course selection]
>> A bit earlier than I'd expect.
>I'm not surprised; registration for fall actually started in April.
For the session beginning in September, it's usually mid July before
things are opened. Note that the class _schedule_ (what is being
offered) may be known earlier - perhaps Spring, but that isn't even
guaranteed to be offered.
>I'm still going on the assumption that evening students are more
>mature and more motivated than the average community college student,
>which sometimes is the case.
I see it both ways - some of the day classes have a significant
number of retirees.
>Verizon is going to drop FTP access to users' personal web space next
>month. I'm afraid they're going to require their customers to use
>the VZ web builder program, which makes the web space practically
>useless to me.
Did they give a reason, or this is just a new added bonus?
>So I may have a new project to add to my list: find the least
>expensive web hosting that meets my (fairly undemanding) requirements.
>(Recommendations, anyone?)
Two things - watch the bait-and-switch (along with the extra fees
that may come into play), and do a search to see what kind of abuse
they tolerate (which may influence connectivity). An old snippet
from Usenet:
>how can I tell a good ISP from a bad one; or - which is essentially
>the same question - where can i find information on the net proving
>my provider, Chello, is a spam-tolerant "bad guy". And Tiscali, my
>previous provider, is one too.
Google:
chello + spam = 498,000 hits
tiscali + spam = 2,200,000 hits
would be a good place to start.
>I'd intended to just scan in a few of my best photos, twiddle with
>GIMP, then print them on photo paper and hang them. However, a day
>or two ago I got the idea of also making a sort of collage of family
>photos. Just the narrowing down and arranging of those will probably
>take a while.
Depends on what all you have access to. Last year, a cousin found a
series of shots taken at a 1951 get-together at my paternal grand
parents place for their 50th anniversary. He did some color correction
and made prints for those still living and identifiable/locatable in
them and sent them out as Christmas gifts. Great fun
>And I still haven't found the one (ca. 1923) of newlyweds Grandpa on
>a motorcycle and Grandma in the sidecar!
You've seen it before?
Old guy
Adam
> in the Usenet newsgroup alt.os.linux.mandriva, Adam wrote:
[backups]
>> Am I supposed to be keeping records for each of my 2000+ packages?
>
> If it was installed as part of the distribution - either directly from
> a DVD/CD, or from the distribution's repository, no. What you need to
> record is stuff you found under other rocks.
That makes sense. AFAIK most of the software I've gotten from
anywhere else, whether RPM, other package, executable, or source, is
still in my /download/ directory. I suppose someday I should make a
list of which ones were installed and kept. I think a few of the
ones there were already installed and removed, after I found them
unsuitable for me in some way. Also, a few things too small for a
package were moved directly to somewhere in my path. And some
things I've installed might as well be removed, but I figure inertia
will take care of those as I'll probably migrate to a new version
(or distro) within the next year. I'm going to start keeping a
sysadmin diary, real soon now!
[Adam and his seven phone-line attachments]
>>> That can't be good for the modem data rates
>
>> Well, I just tried it and I'm still getting over 50kbps down (and
>> 20+ up), so it doesn't seem to be hurting much.
>
> The 20+ up says differently. That should be above 26.4 and ideally
> something above 30.0
True; I gather the max for a 56k modem is 33.6 kbps up. OTOH I
think I can live with it, as I don't expect to be doing much
uploading via dialup. As long as it's usable when my DSL is down.
(One of these days I should recheck the fax, though.)
BTW as for dialup with NetZero and Juno, I finally got FreePOPs
configured, so I have read-only access to any email I may receive
there through (in my case) Thunderbird. It took a little fiddling,
but was fairly easy to set up. FreePOPs comes with plugins for most
of the common webmail services.
[college course selection]
>> I'm still going on the assumption that evening students are more
>> mature and more motivated than the average community college student,
>> which sometimes is the case.
>
> I see it both ways - some of the day classes have a significant
> number of retirees.
I'll have to ask some of the other students, and maybe instructors,
about that at DCC. I still remember B/W Photography I, which was
unquestionably the most time-consuming (and expensive) three-credit
course I ever took anywhere. It started with 14-18 students, but by
the end of the semester only six of us were still active in it --
and all six of us were older than typical community college age.
>> Verizon is going to drop FTP access to users' personal web space next
>> month. I'm afraid they're going to require their customers to use
>> the VZ web builder program, which makes the web space practically
>> useless to me.
>
> Did they give a reason, or this is just a new added bonus?
"For security reasons," they say. In the unofficial newsgroup, one
user did point out that FTP sends the username and the password in
the clear, which is insecure -- but there are other, more secure,
programs that accomplish the same thing, which apparently Verizon
has no intention of using. Word in that NG so far is that VZ's
(seemingly soon-to-be-mandatory) site builder app is clumsy, buggy,
and one user reported that the only uploads it allows are graphics.
(Dammit, as the author and owner of "netzero-juno.txt" I /want/
everybody to be able to access it!) Also, it seems that so far
nobody at Verizon Support knows anything about their site builder app.
Their online advertising mentions that DSL accounts include Personal
Web Space, but says nothing about the quantity or access provided --
so, I assume, as long as they provide /something/ they can't be sued
for false advertising or breach of contract. I don't recall their
advertising mentioning anything about newsservers although they did
provide them when I joined, which is why I suppose they were able to
drop those without getting sued.
>> So I may have a new project to add to my list: find the least
>> expensive web hosting that meets my (fairly undemanding) requirements.
>> (Recommendations, anyone?)
>
> Two things - watch the bait-and-switch (along with the extra fees
> that may come into play), and do a search to see what kind of abuse
> they tolerate (which may influence connectivity).
Before I start with any web host, I plan to do a lot of asking
around. I also plan to start with the shortest-term package
available from whomever I choose.
In other Linux news, I came up with a nice one-liner for my .bashrc,
plus one variation of it:
# 'ps' output for all processes with specified name 07/25/11
function psc() { ps $(ps -o pid --no-headers -C "$1"); }
# 'ps' full output for all processes with specified name 07/25/11
function pscf() { ps -wwF $(ps -o pid --no-headers -C "$1"); }
so for example, instead of two steps:
[adam@eris ~]$ ps -C png
PID TTY TIME CMD
3489 tty1 00:00:17 png
[adam@eris ~]$ ps 3489
PID TTY STAT TIME COMMAND
3489 tty1 SN 0:17 /bin/bash /home/adam/bin/png
[adam@eris ~]$
now I can do it in one step:
[adam@eris ~]$ psc png
PID TTY STAT TIME COMMAND
3489 tty1 SN 0:17 /bin/bash /home/adam/bin/png
[adam@eris ~]$ pscf png
UID PID PPID C SZ RSS PSR STIME TTY STAT TIME CMD
adam 3489 3407 0 1149 744 0 Jul22 tty1 SN 0:17
/bin/bash /home/adam/bin/png
[adam@eris ~]$
I wanted parameters 2-last to get passed to the outer 'ps', but I'll
tackle that later, if it's indeed possible.
>> a day
>> or two ago I got the idea of also making a sort of collage of family
>> photos. Just the narrowing down and arranging of those will probably
>> take a while.
>
> Depends on what all you have access to. Last year, a cousin found a
> series of shots taken at a 1951 get-together at my paternal grand
> parents place for their 50th anniversary. He did some color correction
> and made prints for those still living and identifiable/locatable in
> them and sent them out as Christmas gifts. Great fun
I did something similar for my uncle and his two kids (my age) the
last time I visited them in California (2004), as mainly due to
distance they never had much contact with the rest of the family.
When I was at my parents' house this past weekend, I went through
their photo collection and found lots of possibilities -- mostly
post-1950, though. When I've scanned in enough of those, I'll
tackle their slide collection.
>> And I still haven't found the one (ca. 1923) of newlyweds Grandpa on
>> a motorcycle and Grandma in the sidecar!
>
> You've seen it before?
Yes, but I think it was at my grandparents' apartment, along with
numerous other photos of that side of the family. Those /might/
have ended up in one of the cartons now in my parents' attic. I
also came up with one joke I don't think I can resist: the first
thing my mother thought on seeing my father was that he looked like
[famous movie star], which he kind of did at that time. I figure
I'll include a shot of that star along with the other photos.
Is starting to get sentimental a common thing in middle age? ;-)
Adam
Jim Beard
> [Verizon's] online advertising mentions that DSL accounts include
> Personal Web Space, but says nothing about the quantity or access
> provided -- so, I assume, as long as they provide /something/
> they can't be sued for false advertising or breach of contract. I
> don't recall their advertising mentioning anything about
> newsservers although they did provide them when I joined, which
> is why I suppose they were able to drop those without getting sued.
They have a boiler-plate provision that says they may change any
terms and conditions at any time, with or without notice. Take
it or leave it.
The choice in my area for highspeed Internet is Verizon or Cox
cable of tv infamy.
Someday I will not have to settle for the lesser of two evils, as
Cthulhu will be available locally.
Cheers!
jim b.
--
UNIX is not user unfriendly; it merely
expects users to be computer-friendly.
Moe Trin
<j0njqv$m9a$1...@dont-email.me>, Adam wrote:
>Moe Trin wrote:
[backups]
>> If it was installed as part of the distribution - either directly
>> from a DVD/CD, or from the distribution's repository, no. What you
>> need to record is stuff you found under other rocks.
>That makes sense. AFAIK most of the software I've gotten from
>anywhere else, whether RPM, other package, executable, or source, is
>still in my /download/ directory.
That's great if it's backed up. But is it ``current''? (When you
install stuff from outside the distribution, you are responsible for
checking for bug/security fixes, etc.)
>Also, a few things too small for a package were moved directly to
>somewhere in my path. And some things I've installed might as well
>be removed, but I figure inertia will take care of those as I'll
>probably migrate to a new version (or distro) within the next year.
That's often when I clean things out as well, usually because the
old stuff is no longer compatible with the new libraries and such.
>I'm going to start keeping a sysadmin diary, real soon now!
Two of them - one on the system, because thats the easiest one to
edit/maintain, and a second in a small spiral binder which is more
likely to survive over time (if you can find it again).
[Adam and his seven phone-line attachments]
>True; I gather the max for a 56k modem is 33.6 kbps up. OTOH I
>think I can live with it, as I don't expect to be doing much
>uploading via dialup. As long as it's usable when my DSL is down.
>(One of these days I should recheck the fax, though.)
Think about having to upload something related to DCC classes at
the last minute ;-)
>FreePOPs comes with plugins for most of the common webmail services.
I've never seen a good reason for using webmail - even for throwaways
[college course selection]
>> I see it both ways - some of the day classes have a significant
>> number of retirees.
>I'll have to ask some of the other students, and maybe instructors,
>about that at DCC. I still remember B/W Photography I, which was
>unquestionably the most time-consuming (and expensive) three-credit
>course I ever took anywhere. It started with 14-18 students, but by
>the end of the semester only six of us were still active in it --
>and all six of us were older than typical community college age.
Off the top of the head, about half of the classes I take have more
older students than younger. It could be subject related, as well as
the basic demographics.
[verizon ! FTP]
>> Did they give a reason, or this is just a new added bonus?
>"For security reasons," they say. In the unofficial newsgroup, one
>user did point out that FTP sends the username and the password in
>the clear, which is insecure
True, but somewhat over-rated in this day. The number of people able
to sniff the wire is much less than at (say) your 1980s era college
computer lab.
>but there are other, more secure, programs that accomplish the same
>thing, which apparently Verizon has no intention of using.
SSL has a Secure FTP
>Word in that NG so far is that VZ's (seemingly soon-to-be-mandatory)
>site builder app is clumsy, buggy, and one user reported that the
>only uploads it allows are graphics.
It _may_ be a digital rights fiasco, preventing you from uploading
copyright or intellectual property rights material.
>Before I start with any web host, I plan to do a lot of asking
>around. I also plan to start with the shortest-term package
>available from whomever I choose.
There are a number of legitimate providers that have programs as
cheap as US$5/yr - but some have mentioned "you get what you pay for".
[preserving photos]
>When I was at my parents' house this past weekend, I went through
>their photo collection and found lots of possibilities -- mostly
>post-1950, though. When I've scanned in enough of those, I'll
>tackle their slide collection.
My sister has nearly all of our parents photo collection and the
last time I looked at them (mostly B/W prints), they were still in
good shape - more than I can say for the albums themselves. I don't
know what will become of either.
>>> And I still haven't found the one (ca. 1923) of newlyweds Grandpa
>>> on a motorcycle and Grandma in the sidecar!
>> You've seen it before?
>Yes, but I think it was at my grandparents' apartment, along with
>numerous other photos of that side of the family. Those /might/
>have ended up in one of the cartons now in my parents' attic.
I tend to worry about stuff up in the attic - heat extremes
>I also came up with one joke I don't think I can resist: the first
>thing my mother thought on seeing my father was that he looked like
>[famous movie star], which he kind of did at that time. I figure
>I'll include a shot of that star along with the other photos.
Sounds good!
>Is starting to get sentimental a common thing in middle age? ;-)
I dunno - late May, I got slightly choked up when NASA JPL announced
that they ceased monitoring the mired Martian rover "Spirit". Quoting
from the announcement:
The Jet Propulsion Laboratory in California, which runs the Mars
Exploration Rovers for the NASA Science Mission Directorate, with
all due respect and reverence ceased monitoring the mired rover
Spirit last May. Spirit and it's twin rover Opportunity were
designed to roam the Martian surface for three months after landing
in January 2004. "Spirit explored just as we would have" says the
programs principal investigator Steve Squyres, "seeing a distant
hill, climbing it, and showing us the vista from the summit. And
she did it in a way that allowed everyone on Earth to be part of
the adventure." Spirit alone sent 124,000 images before getting
stuck in soft Martian soil in May 2009. Opportunity continues to
make tracks for the Endeavour crater.
but it's just a machine.
Old guy
Adam
> On 07/26/2011 07:49 PM, Adam wrote:
>
>> [Verizon's] online advertising mentions that DSL accounts include
>> Personal Web Space, but says nothing about the quantity or access
>> provided
>
> terms and conditions at any time, with or without notice. Take it or
> leave it.
IIRC it actually says they'll give notice by posting the change(s)
on their website and/or by email. So burying it in their website
does fulfill that. I'm aware a "take it or leave it" clause is
usual in that sort of thing, but then since my contract ran out, I
have the same option too -- I can drop their service whenever I want
to. Actually many agreements are like that -- the company only
promises to make a "reasonable attempt" to deliver the parcel, or
something like that.
> The choice in my area for highspeed Internet is Verizon or Cox cable
> of tv infamy.
I think several companies offer DSL where I am. There's also
Optimum cable, except by choice I don't subscribe to any cable TV
service. When I switched from dialup, that was about the time I got
onto the transplant waiting lists, and I'd heard that getting DSL
through other providers could take several weeks or more, and I
wanted it ASAP.
Adam
Jim Beard
> Jim Beard wrote:
>> The choice in my area for highspeed Internet is Verizon or Cox
>> cable of tv infamy.
>
> I think several companies offer DSL where I am. There's also
> Optimum cable, except by choice I don't subscribe to any cable TV
> service.
Warning: RANT follows
I would have to pull out the old paperwork to get the exact
numbers, but several (maybe 7 or 8) years ago, Earthlink offered
ADSL in my area. I signed up, everything was ok'ed at Earthlink,
and after I had paid Earthlink a few hundred $$ (yes, hook-up was
not free in those days) Verizon nixed the deal. Verizon provided
the carrier line, and decreed that I was appx 1,000 feet too far
from the central office. Earthlink was willing to "try and see"
if ADSL would work, but Verizon absolutely refused. Getting my
money back from Earthlink took months.
A year or two later, a Pittsburg company offered ADSL in my area,
and said my distance from the central office would present no
problem, as the improved equipment that would be used would take
care of that. Verizon decreed that I was 4,000 or 5,000 feet
farther from the central office than I had been the earlier time.
My home had not moved. The central office was the same and had
not moved. The Virginia Public Utilities Commission essentially
said that I could sue Verizon and attempt to force them to
provide the circuit as the local POTS carrier, but that unless I
did that Verizon could select any routing they wished for service
to my house. By routing my circuit carefully, they could stretch
the distance from the central office by several miles before the
PUC would do anything.
Not long after, rolls of orange cable started showing up in my
neighborhood, and I recognized that as fiber-optic. I called
Verizon, and they would admit they intended to provide FIOS
service in my area but would not venture when. They then offered
ADSL. I recounted (to the sales person) the times I had been
refused because I was too far from the central office, only to be
told that was no problem.
I signed up for Verizon ADSL, and sure enough it was set up for
me, and worked fine. I even got a 90-day or maybe it was a
6-month guarantee of satisfaction. If I was not satisfied, for
any reason, I could cancel and get my money back.
During the no-penalty period, FIOS was officially offered in my
area. I promptly declared myself dissatisfied with ADSL. I then
signed up for FIOS, on terms that were quite nice as Verizon
wished to get the FIOS ball rolling, especially for customers who
had no service from Verizon. And I had none, thanks to the terms
of cancellation.
This meant that the expense of provisioning me with ADSL was down
the drain, and Verizon was going to provide me with FIOS at
essentially no installation charge, and I topped that off by
demanding a naked-FIOS internet connection, with no concurrent
phone or television service. Verizon tried to refuse. I called
the PUC, cited documentation I had learned of that said Verizon
was obligated (had advertised?) to provide naked-FIOS internet,
and described my earlier problems with ADSL. The PUC leaned on
Verizon this time, and Verizon provided the service. The only
start-up charge was $75 to run ethernet from the router to a
second computer in the house (quite reasonable for what the guy
had to do). It took the tech 4 or 5 hours before he gave up with
my wife's iMac still not connecting to the internet. I was an
expensive hook-up.
I tinkered with the iMac settings, and got it working, so I had
5Mbps at $40 a month, which I liked. Sorting out the billing
took close to 6 months, and toward the end I was reporting weekly
to the PUC what I had done, and what I knew that Verizon had
done, as well as making weekly contact with the customer service
rep in charge of resolving my case and her boss, with an
additional call now and then one more level up to someone in New
Jersey. The rep and her boss were in Maryland, and briefly it
looked as if I was going to have to appear in person to complain
to them, but when I asked for an appointment early or late in the
day so I could appear before or after my workday on Fort Meade
(farther from my home than their location was) they decided that
would not be necessary.
There were a few early glitches, and I would have to reboot to
Winblows so the Verizon trouble desk could run their pc
diagnostics -- before the tech would even talk to me. Each time,
after running their diagnostics, the tech listened to what I had
to say, poked it into his computer, and the problem did get fixed
(albeit once or twice the tech had to send my statement of the
problem to the shop in Dallas before someone would look at it and
fix the problem).
Then, AT&T dropped voice-over-ip service in Northern Virginia.
Verizon VoIP seemed as good as anyone's so I decided to make that
shift, and my wife decided she would try FIOS tv if we could get
a TIVO recorder like her daughter in North Carolina had. Well,
it wasn't TIVO but it did the same job (more or less), so I found
myself and my wife using Verizon for television, internet, and
VoIP phone service. It does work, and Verizon's reputation is
better than that of Cox Cable, so I expect to continue as is.
Unless or until AT&T or some other attractive option appears. I
do still have the copper wires for regular phones lines running
to my house, so I could move off FIOS (though speed would take a
hit I am sure -- one of the benefits of using multiple Verizon
services is they bump your connection speed up at no charge -
currently 30 Mbps, which is not shabby).
/Rant
Adam
> in the Usenet newsgroup alt.os.linux.mandriva, Adam wrote:
[backups]
>> most of the software I've gotten from
>> anywhere else, whether RPM, other package, executable, or source, is
>> still in my /download/ directory.
>
> That's great if it's backed up. But is it ``current''? (When you
> install stuff from outside the distribution, you are responsible for
> checking for bug/security fixes, etc.)
I try to keep most of it current, for things that are still being
maintained. That's also why I prefer to get the packages from the
Mandriva repository, unless a newer version includes a feature I
need, e.g. gphoto2.
What's trickier is dealing with programs that are no longer
maintained. One app I liked when I was running Mandriva 2008.1
wouldn't work under 2010.0 because it depended on KDE3 libraries.
Another program I like is in Python, but I don't know enough of it
to fix "DeprecationWarning: the md5 module is deprecated; use
hashlib instead" which I suppose will have to be done by someone
eventually. That was also a tricky one to install because it
depended on 'apt' retrieving a lot of files that weren't actually in
the package itself. I ended up installing it in an Ubuntu VM, then
copying all the files over to Mandriva.
>> And some things I've installed might as well
>> be removed, but I figure inertia will take care of those as I'll
>> probably migrate to a new version (or distro) within the next year.
>
> That's often when I clean things out as well, usually because the
> old stuff is no longer compatible with the new libraries and such.
And one weekend I went wild and installed far too many fonts I'll
never use, so migrating will take care of that too.
>> I'm going to start keeping a sysadmin diary, real soon now!
>
> Two of them - one on the system, because thats the easiest one to
> edit/maintain, and a second in a small spiral binder which is more
> likely to survive over time (if you can find it again).
Plus getting into the habit of making entries even for small things.
[Adam and his seven phone-line attachments]
>> I think I can live with it, as I don't expect to be doing much
>> uploading via dialup. As long as it's usable when my DSL is down.
>
> Think about having to upload something related to DCC classes at
> the last minute ;-)
Yep, that would take somewhat longer, but would still get uploaded.
Let's face it, when you're using dialup, nothing happens quickly.
>> FreePOPs comes with plugins for most of the common webmail services.
>
> I've never seen a good reason for using webmail - even for throwaways
I don't like it either. Even my throwaways are either POP3 or
forwarded to another POP3 address. The one good thing is using your
own ISP's webmail from someone else's computer. That was handy when
I had my transplant, and wanted to drop the course I was scheduled
for while I was still in the hospital, before it started.
What I've also done is have Seamonkey (my usual browser/mail/news
client) configured only for my most important addresses, and
Thunderbird set up for the rest. This reduces confusion and screen
clutter somewhat.
[college course selection]
>>> I see it both ways - some of the day classes have a significant
>>> number of retirees.
[...]
> Off the top of the head, about half of the classes I take have more
> older students than younger. It could be subject related, as well as
> the basic demographics.
Whatever I'll take this fall will be an evening section, but I'll
ask about older students being in the day sections. One I'm
considering is "Lifetime Wellness & Fitness" but for that one I'd
also ask whether someone middle-aged and unfit would be out of place
among all the 18-19-year-olds. If I had to pick a course today, it
would probably be Nutrition. That's Wednesday evenings, though, so
I'd have to skip the class before my next trip to Albany, which
requires getting up at 4:30 AM on Thursday. BTW I was there this
morning and apart from possible borderline HBP am doing well.
[verizon ! FTP]
>> but there are other, more secure, programs that accomplish the same
>> thing, which apparently Verizon has no intention of using.
>
> SSL has a Secure FTP
But somehow I don't think Verizon will offer any alternatives to FTP.
>> Word in that NG so far is that VZ's (seemingly soon-to-be-mandatory)
>> site builder app is clumsy, buggy, and one user reported that the
>> only uploads it allows are graphics.
>
> It _may_ be a digital rights fiasco, preventing you from uploading
> copyright or intellectual property rights material.
"Fiasco" is right. Especially since images have intellectual
property rights too. If that's their main reason, it sounds like
they weren't thinking very clearly, but that's happened before.
>> Before I start with any web host, I plan to do a lot of asking
>> around.
>
> There are a number of legitimate providers that have programs as
> cheap as US$5/yr - but some have mentioned "you get what you pay for".
I know... some of the biggies even have a free plan, but those don't
seem to be what I'm looking for, e.g. no FTP. Fortunately I don't
have an urgent need for a web site, so I can take my time searching
for the best plan for me.
[preserving photos]
> My sister has nearly all of our parents photo collection and the
> last time I looked at them (mostly B/W prints), they were still in
> good shape - more than I can say for the albums themselves. I don't
> know what will become of either.
One of your nieces or nephews, I'd guess.
>> Yes, but I think it was at my grandparents' apartment, along with
>> numerous other photos of that side of the family. Those /might/
>> have ended up in one of the cartons now in my parents' attic.
>
> I tend to worry about stuff up in the attic - heat extremes
I hadn't thought about that. I don't think anybody's even opened
those boxes to see what's in them. I can manage without those,
anyway. The question is, what will happen to what's in those boxes
when my parents eventually move out? I suppose they'll go to
whichever of the next generation has the most empty space.
OTOH my parents' 35mm slide collection (1950s-1980s) is in plastic
pages in their basement, and when I looked at them four years ago,
the problem wasn't preservation -- it was the film itself. Some of
the Ektachromes (even processed by Kodak) had faded to nearly
monochrome rust-color. The Kodachromes still looked great, though.
After I'm done scanning prints, I'll look through those.
>> Is starting to get sentimental a common thing in middle age? ;-)
>
> I dunno - late May, I got slightly choked up when NASA JPL announced
> that they ceased monitoring the mired Martian rover "Spirit". Quoting
> from the announcement:
>
> The Jet Propulsion Laboratory in California, which runs the Mars
> Exploration Rovers for the NASA Science Mission Directorate, with
> all due respect and reverence ceased monitoring the mired rover
> Spirit last May.
I can see the JPL is sentimental about it too.
> but it's just a machine.
About the only objects I'm sentimental about are either things I, or
someone close to me, created (e.g. artwork), or my "firsts" -- first
car, first home computer, and such.
Adam
Moe Trin
<j0so7a$n8h$1...@dont-email.me>, Adam wrote:
>Moe Trin wrote:
[backups]
>> (When you install stuff from outside the distribution, you are
>> responsible for checking for bug/security fixes, etc.)
>I try to keep most of it current, for things that are still being
>maintained. That's also why I prefer to get the packages from the
>Mandriva repository, unless a newer version includes a feature I
>need, e.g. gphoto2.
I've got some networking tools that are unmaintained and quite old.
So far, I've been able to recompile without breaking things.
>What's trickier is dealing with programs that are no longer
>maintained. One app I liked when I was running Mandriva 2008.1
>wouldn't work under 2010.0 because it depended on KDE3 libraries.
I try to avoid desktop specific tools if possible. For me, that tends
to be easier, because I don't use that many graphic oriented tools. I
got bit that way in the mid-90s with something dependent on libqt and
soon decided it wasn't worth the hassle.
>Another program I like is in Python, but I don't know enough of it
>to fix "DeprecationWarning: the md5 module is deprecated; use
>hashlib instead" which I suppose will have to be done by someone
>eventually.
1321 The MD5 Message-Digest Algorithm. R. Rivest. April 1992. (Format:
TXT=35222 bytes) (Updated by RFC6151) (Status: INFORMATIONAL)
6151 Updated Security Considerations for the MD5 Message-Digest and
the HMAC-MD5 Algorithms. S. Turner, L. Chen. March 2011. (Format:
TXT=14662 bytes) (Updates RFC1321, RFC2104) (Status: INFORMATIONAL)
MD5 is downgraded as a security feature. From RFC6151 section 2:
MD5 is no longer acceptable where collision resistance is required
such as digital signatures. It is not urgent to stop using MD5 in
other ways, such as HMAC-MD5; however, since MD5 must not be used for
digital signatures, new protocol designs should not employ HMAC-MD5.
Alternatives to HMAC-MD5 include HMAC-SHA256 [HMAC] [HMAC-SHA256] and
[AES-CMAC] when AES is more readily available than a hash function.
Essentially, that's saying that MD5 is not secure enough and it will be
replaced by SHA256 or AES. The problem is that a LOT of things still
use MD5, and replacing it is going to break a lot of stuff - as one
example, the security signatures in rpm, dpkg, and md5sum itself.
>That was also a tricky one to install because it depended on 'apt'
>retrieving a lot of files that weren't actually in the package itself.
>I ended up installing it in an Ubuntu VM, then copying all the files
>over to Mandriva.
Well, yeah - a Debian based install may have as many as 100 python
packages, or more. But why install the Debian/Ubuntu package rather
than the Mandriva ones?
>And one weekend I went wild and installed far too many fonts I'll
>never use, so migrating will take care of that too.
I try to control myself.
>> Two of them - one on the system, because thats the easiest one to
>> edit/maintain, and a second in a small spiral binder which is
>> more likely to survive over time (if you can find it again).
>Plus getting into the habit of making entries even for small things.
That's not as difficult, as the spiral binder is kept with each system
and it's a procedure you just have to get used to. I've got another
binder (and files located on all systems) that has all of the critical
numbers (CMOS settings, partitioning data, and the like) so that when
a system looses it's mind (those pesky CMOS batteries) or the hard
disk goes nuts, I have some chance to recover.
[college course selection]
>Whatever I'll take this fall will be an evening section, but I'll
>ask about older students being in the day sections. One I'm
>considering is "Lifetime Wellness & Fitness" but for that one I'd
>also ask whether someone middle-aged and unfit would be out of place
>among all the 18-19-year-olds.
You might breeze it past your primary-care, but I no longer worry
about that. People around here are more or less used to seeing older
folk doing stupid things like jogging, bike riding, roller-blading
and the like. (As long as we stay away from Spandex/Lycra.)
>If I had to pick a course today, it would probably be Nutrition.
>That's Wednesday evenings, though, so I'd have to skip the class
>before my next trip to Albany, which requires getting up at 4:30 AM
>on Thursday.
Nutrition? Chocolate, alcohol, and ciggies - what more is there to
know? Oh...
>BTW I was there this morning and apart from possible borderline HBP
>am doing well.
Congratulations - keep up the good work! Are the meds more or less
stabilized now? Knowing more on nutrition might be helpful. (I was
in to see my primary on Monday for the annual inspection and nag -
nothing new and the usual lectures about watching the heat, weight and
staying out of the sun.)
[verizon ! FTP]
>> SSL has a Secure FTP
>But somehow I don't think Verizon will offer any alternatives to FTP.
I'm sure
>> It _may_ be a digital rights fiasco, preventing you from uploading
>> copyright or intellectual property rights material.
>"Fiasco" is right. Especially since images have intellectual
>property rights too. If that's their main reason, it sounds like
>they weren't thinking very clearly, but that's happened before.
As the removal of the 'alt.*' hierarchy from their news servers two or
three years ago.
>> There are a number of legitimate providers that have programs as
>> cheap as US$5/yr - but some have mentioned "you get what you pay for".
>I know... some of the biggies even have a free plan, but those don't
>seem to be what I'm looking for, e.g. no FTP.
If you were to look at the "Readers Choice" awards in the Linux Journal
(issue 200 from last December), GoDaddy was the pick, followed by
Contegix, Dreamhost, Rackspace and 1&1 - but clumps of each of their
address space are black-holed here.
[preserving photos]
>> I tend to worry about stuff up in the attic - heat extremes
>I hadn't thought about that. I don't think anybody's even opened
>those boxes to see what's in them.
Yup - that's the problem. It's put up there and promptly forgotten
and no one is checking how well it may be surviving.
>I can manage without those, anyway. The question is, what will
>happen to what's in those boxes when my parents eventually move out?
>I suppose they'll go to whichever of the next generation has the most
> empty space.
and not knowing what is there isn't helping. Some of it could be tossed
and never missed, while some (likely few) items are invaluable.
>OTOH my parents' 35mm slide collection (1950s-1980s) is in plastic
>pages in their basement, and when I looked at them four years ago,
>the problem wasn't preservation -- it was the film itself. Some of
>the Ektachromes (even processed by Kodak) had faded to nearly
>monochrome rust-color. The Kodachromes still looked great, though.
Ten-ish years ago, I discovered that a significant number of the
slides in Connecticut were moisture damaged and the cardboard holders
were delaminating or warped so badly the slides wouldn't fit into a
projector (never mind a magazine). I probably spent two weeks
replacing the holders, and then moved them to a sealed container for
slightly more protection (remember a thing called a "Seal-A-Meal").
>> The Jet Propulsion Laboratory in California, which runs the Mars
>> Exploration Rovers for the NASA Science Mission Directorate, with
>> all due respect and reverence ceased monitoring the mired rover
>> Spirit last May.
>I can see the JPL is sentimental about it too.
Some of the science the rovers accomplished is mind-boggling. And
the photographs aren't bad either. I had a minor problem with one of
my *ologists with that - I'm in the examination room waiting for him
to finally arrive, and am looking through a technical magazine that
had some of the latest pictures. I'm marveling at them, and he comes
in and disparages the entire rover program as a huge waste of money
that could be better spent on medical science (in his field, of course).
>> but it's just a machine.
>About the only objects I'm sentimental about are either things I, or
>someone close to me, created (e.g. artwork), or my "firsts" -- first
>car, first home computer, and such.
`And then there were ten...' Long live the memory of the Liberty
Belle. She was active for only 6 years since being restored, but
what a magnificient six those were.
---
44-85734 B-17G Liberty Belle Flew for the first time in 2005 since
being destroyed by a tornado in 1979. Destroyed by fire June 13, 2011,
after a successful emergency landing.
Damn, Damn, DAMN!!! (Safe landing - burnt out because the fire trucks
claimed the wet ground was too soft to drive within range of the fire.)
Old guy
Adam
> but several (maybe 7 or 8) years ago, Earthlink offered ADSL in my
> area. I signed up, everything was ok'ed at Earthlink, and after I
> had paid Earthlink a few hundred $$ (yes, hook-up was not free in
> those days) Verizon nixed the deal.
And I suppose that even if Verizon had been forced to provide DSL to
your home, for every DSL problem VZ and Earthlink would have blamed
the other. I have a friend in Florida who has Earthlink DSL and
just moved across town (new landline number), and I'll have to ask
how transferring Earthlink DSL went there.
> I
> recounted (to the sales person) the times I had been refused because
> I was too far from the central office, only to be told that was no
> problem.
As you mentioned, VZ can calculate the distance from your home to
the CO any way they want to. Somehow it's shortest for their own
services.
A few years ago, my parents (who live in the same county but not
town as I do) wanted VZ DSL, and the VZ website said it wasn't
available for them. (I know that by car, it's 4-5 miles from their
home to their CO.) Earlier this year, I checked again for them, and
both FIOS and several DSL speeds were available for them. I suppose
when VZ installed the fiber optic cable, they put in some
intermediate station (I forget the technical name) considerably
closer to their house.
> I signed up for Verizon ADSL, and sure enough it was set up for me,
> and worked fine.
As I mentioned, I wanted to switch from (a third-party) dialup to
DSL ASAP, and it was actually less than 48 hours from my placing the
order online to actually being online with DSL.
> During the no-penalty period, FIOS was officially offered in my
> area.
At this moment, VZ's website says that even DSL isn't available at
my location(!). And no FIOS either. I'm not even sure what they'll
do when it comes to wiring my apartment complex for FIOS, as all the
wiring within the complex is underground -- on the pole on the
street, you can see the wires heading down into the ground. Well,
maybe that's what the occasional manhole covers are for...
underground tunnels, like the ones we used to explore in college.
> I topped that off by
> demanding a naked-FIOS internet connection, with no concurrent phone
> or television service.
I forgot that that was possible.
> Verizon tried to refuse. I called the PUC,
> cited documentation I had learned of that said Verizon was obligated
> (had advertised?) to provide naked-FIOS internet, and described my
> earlier problems with ADSL. The PUC leaned on Verizon this time, and
> Verizon provided the service.
So in practical terms, one can't count on that happening everywhere
every time.
> one of the benefits of using multiple Verizon services is
> they bump your connection speed up at no charge - currently 30 Mbps,
> which is not shabby).
I'm using Verizon POTS for both local and LD, plus DSL, and they've
never changed things. They haven't even tried to get me to sign up
for any other services or features. FWIW now that my contract is
over, I'm paying US $34/month for 3m/768k -- they don't promise the
maximum speed, but I usually get something close to it. Also, I
believe that VZ is the only major US ISP that has no download cap,
although I wonder how much longer that will continue.
Adam
Bobbie Sellers
Manhole covers usually conceal entrances to Utility vaults here
which are essentially access to space where cable runs begin. During
a somewhat recent contretemps the Bus Trolley running on Post Street
broke loose and shorted out the overhead voltage to a street lamp pole
and destroyed the runs to a number of businesses and apartment building
fed by the vaults. It took them about 12 hours to replace the
cables, pulled through the conduits to the various places that
had lost power.
Other manholes have access to sewer lines that in SF look like
big pipes made of multiple layers of bricks in areas where the old
construction has worked up to now. Many are now lined with
a plastic pipe of large diameter and others still with cast
concrete of large diameter.
And by the way good luck with your connections.
>
>> I topped that off by
>> demanding a naked-FIOS internet connection, with no concurrent phone
>> or television service.
>
> I forgot that that was possible.
>
>> Verizon tried to refuse. I called the PUC,
>> cited documentation I had learned of that said Verizon was obligated
>> (had advertised?) to provide naked-FIOS internet, and described my
>> earlier problems with ADSL. The PUC leaned on Verizon this time, and
>> Verizon provided the service.
>
> So in practical terms, one can't count on that happening everywhere
> every time.
>
>> one of the benefits of using multiple Verizon services is
>> they bump your connection speed up at no charge - currently 30 Mbps,
>> which is not shabby).
>
> I'm using Verizon POTS for both local and LD, plus DSL, and they've
> never changed things. They haven't even tried to get me to sign up for
> any other services or features. FWIW now that my contract is over, I'm
> paying US $34/month for 3m/768k -- they don't promise the maximum speed,
> but I usually get something close to it. Also, I believe that VZ is the
> only major US ISP that has no download cap, although I wonder how much
> longer that will continue.
>
> Adam
bliss
Adam
> On 07/30/2011 08:26 AM, Adam wrote:
>>
>> I'm not even sure what they'll do when it comes to wiring my
>> apartment complex for FIOS, as all the wiring within the
>> complex is underground -- on the pole on the street, you can
>> see the wires heading down into the ground. Well, maybe that's
>> what the occasional manhole covers are for... underground
>> tunnels, like the ones we used to explore in college.
>
> Manhole covers usually conceal entrances to Utility vaults here
> which are essentially access to space where cable runs begin.
Thanks, Bobbie! I'm really not familiar with municipal-type
manholes. The two (east coast) colleges I was most familiar with
both began construction in the early 20th century, and the
underground tunnels (which were large enough for people and a hand
cart, and illuminated with occasional bulbs) were meant to carry
heat, water, electricity, phone lines, etc. between buildings. This
also meant there was relatively easy access to any point on these,
for repairs or to add new connections.
> Other manholes have access to sewer lines that in SF look like
> big pipes made of multiple layers of bricks in areas where the
> old construction has worked up to now. Many are now lined with a
> plastic pipe of large diameter and others still with cast
> concrete of large diameter.
I suppose nearly all of that dates from after the 1906 quake/fire.
Adam
Adam
> in the Usenet newsgroup alt.os.linux.mandriva, Adam wrote:
>> What's trickier is dealing with programs that are no longer
>> maintained. One app I liked when I was running Mandriva
>> 2008.1 wouldn't work under 2010.0 because it depended on KDE3
>> libraries.
>
> I try to avoid desktop specific tools if possible.
I hadn't realized it was desktop-specific, even if its name did
start with "k". Fortunately it didn't take me long to find another
app that did essentially the same task for me. I have both the KDE
and Gnome libraries installed (even though I use neither as my
desktop environment), and I tend to forget which, if either, any
particular program requires.
>> Another program I like is in Python, but I don't know enough of
>> it to fix "DeprecationWarning: the md5 module is deprecated;
>> use hashlib instead" which I suppose will have to be done by
>> someone eventually.
>
[snip]
> Essentially, that's saying that MD5 is not secure enough and it
> will be replaced by SHA256 or AES. The problem is that a LOT of
> things still use MD5, and replacing it is going to break a lot of
> stuff - as one example, the security signatures in rpm, dpkg, and
> md5sum itself.
And I can't even understand why the program I'm referring to even
uses MD5 at all. It's mainly a combination of par2repair and unrar.
>> That was also a tricky one to install because it depended on
>> 'apt' retrieving a lot of files that weren't actually in the
>> package itself.
>
> Well, yeah - a Debian based install may have as many as 100
> python packages, or more. But why install the Debian/Ubuntu
> package rather than the Mandriva ones?
Because that's the only way it was available:
http://www.irasnyder.com/devel/#rarslave .
>> And one weekend I went wild and installed far too many fonts
>> I'll never use, so migrating will take care of that too.
>
> I try to control myself.
It hadn't occurred to me that installing all those fonts would slow
down so many apps. In fact, it seems to have overwhelmed
LibreOffice, which uses the correct font name but some other font.
OO.o is fine that way.
[sysadmin diaries]
> That's not as difficult, as the spiral binder is kept with each
> system and it's a procedure you just have to get used to. I've
> got another binder (and files located on all systems) that has
> all of the critical numbers (CMOS settings, partitioning data,
> and the like) so that when a system looses it's mind (those pesky
> CMOS batteries) or the hard disk goes nuts, I have some chance to
> recover.
I also have copies of the MBR and each partition's boot record for
all (both) HDs, so I can restore them if necessary.
[verizon ! FTP]
> As the removal of the 'alt.*' hierarchy from their news servers
> two or three years ago.
That one was actually their own fault. The NYS AG's office made an
anonymous complaint to VZ about accessible child porn, and VZ, /in
violation of their own TOS/, did nothing. To avoid a massive fine,
they settled with the NYS AG that they would remove access to all
binary NGs. That's how I understand the story, anyway.
>> some of the biggies even have a free [web hosting] plan, but
>> those don't seem to be what I'm looking for, e.g. no FTP.
>
> If you were to look at the "Readers Choice" awards in the Linux
> Journal (issue 200 from last December)
I don't follow any of the Linux magazines, as I'm assuming much of
the same information is online elsewhere. How much am I missing?
> GoDaddy was the pick,
> followed by Contegix, Dreamhost, Rackspace and 1&1 - but clumps
> of each of their address space are black-holed here.
Thanks for the list, but why the blocks on addresses? Fortunately
my needs for a website are relatively modest, so an inexpensive plan
should be OK. For example, I don't want third-party ads, but a
banner ad for the hosting service itself wouldn't bother me.
[preserving photos]
>>> I tend to worry about stuff up in the attic - heat extremes
[...]
> Yup - that's the problem. It's put up there and promptly
> forgotten and no one is checking how well it may be surviving.
I went up in my parents' attic today and it was about 100F there, so
my mother and I agreed to wait until October or so before looking
there again. Any damage due to heat extremes is already done, so I
don't think the wait will matter much. Most of the photos are in a
closet at room temperature anyway.
> and not knowing what is there isn't helping. Some of it could be
> tossed and never missed, while some (likely few) items are
> invaluable.
There's actually a list of what's stored in their attic, but it's
not clear about Grandpa's stuff. Most of what's there are suitcases
anyway.
> the slides in Connecticut were moisture damaged and the cardboard
> holders were delaminating or warped so badly the slides wouldn't
> fit into a projector (never mind a magazine). I probably spent
> two weeks replacing the holders, and then moved them to a sealed
> container for slightly more protection (remember a thing called a
> "Seal-A-Meal").
I remember the Seal-A-Meal! For the collage of family photos, I
figure scanning in the prints should be good enough. (At 600 dpi,
in case I decide to enlarge them a little. The slides were scanned
in at 2400 dpi.) My scanner can handle 35mm negatives and slides,
but many of the negatives would be impossible to find anyway, if
they still exist at all.
[college course selection]
>> Whatever I'll take this fall will be an evening section, but
>> I'll ask about older students being in the day sections. One
>> I'm considering is "Lifetime Wellness & Fitness" but for that
>> one I'd also ask whether someone middle-aged and unfit would be
>> out of place among all the 18-19-year-olds.
>
> You might breeze it past your primary-care, but I no longer
> worry about that. People around here are more or less used to
> seeing older folk doing stupid things like jogging, bike riding,
> roller-blading and the like. (As long as we stay away from
> Spandex/Lycra.)
Yeah, but there are a lot more older folks where you are. I'll
probably take Nutrition this fall, as it's not always offered. It's
also been a while since I've taken a science course of any kind.
"Lifetime Wellness and Fitness" is always offered, and also sounds
like a course better suited for the spring term so the weather will
get better and the daylight longer as the course goes on.
>> BTW I was [at the transplant clinic] this morning and apart
>> from possible borderline HBP am doing well.
>
> Congratulations - keep up the good work! Are the meds more or
> less stabilized now? Knowing more on nutrition might be
> helpful.
Thanks! The immunosuppressants seem to have gotten about as low as
they're going to get (that basically meant reducing them until my
levels got too low, then backtracking), but it seems my level for
Prograf has become high, so they're making a slight reduction in it.
This time the PA saw me instead of one of the MDs, which I figure
is also a good sign. I just have to keep a log of my BP, but I have
a home monitor so that's straightforward. They want me to show it
to my primary/nephrologist at next month's visit. Nephrology is a
subspecialty of internal medicine, and having them be the same
person makes things considerably easier.
In other news, my MP3 player decided on its own to erase all my
music files. They were all copied from elsewhere, but it might be a
sign that I should get a new one soon.
Adam
Bobbie Sellers
> Bobbie Sellers wrote:
>> On 07/30/2011 08:26 AM, Adam wrote:
>>>
>>> I'm not even sure what they'll do when it comes to wiring my
>>> apartment complex for FIOS, as all the wiring within the
>>> complex is underground -- on the pole on the street, you can
>>> see the wires heading down into the ground. Well, maybe that's
>>> what the occasional manhole covers are for... underground
>>> tunnels, like the ones we used to explore in college.
>>
>> Manhole covers usually conceal entrances to Utility vaults here
>> which are essentially access to space where cable runs begin.
>
> Thanks, Bobbie! I'm really not familiar with municipal-type manholes.
> The two (east coast) colleges I was most familiar with both began
> construction in the early 20th century, and the underground tunnels
> (which were large enough for people and a hand cart, and illuminated
> with occasional bulbs) were meant to carry heat, water, electricity,
> phone lines, etc. between buildings. This also meant there was
> relatively easy access to any point on these, for repairs or to add new
> connections.
Very sensible that. We have lots of separated small spaces
some surprising excavators for new building or repairs. This is
aside from the nearly legendary tunnels in Chinatown. Those were
escape from the police tunnels for gamblers.
>
>> Other manholes have access to sewer lines that in SF look like
>> big pipes made of multiple layers of bricks in areas where the
>> old construction has worked up to now. Many are now lined with a
>> plastic pipe of large diameter and others still with cast
>> concrete of large diameter.
>
> I suppose nearly all of that dates from after the 1906 quake/fire.
>
Well it was in use some of it at that time, since it was
the technology understood at the time we have some since
the quake but all that unreinforced masonry is now over 100
years old and constantly causing problems. Some of the
other stuff gives way as well under stress.
> Adam
bliss
Jim Beard
> That one was actually their own fault. The NYS AG's office made
> an anonymous complaint to VZ about accessible child porn, and VZ,
> /in violation of their own TOS/, did nothing. To avoid a massive
> fine, they settled with the NYS AG that they would remove access
> to all binary NGs. That's how I understand the story, anyway.
Close, but I doubt the implications are what your understanding
would imply. There was a complaint, one that Verizon did not act
on (perhaps with intent to create an incident that would
"justify" dumping Usenet), but there was no "massive fine." That
would have required bringing charges in court, and obtaining a
court judgment against Verizon, plus a court's decision to impose
a massive fine. The NYS AG could say anything he wished, of
course, but he had no power to impose any fine on his own authority.
That said, look at what Verizon did.
First, they did not simply remove access to all binary NGs. They
removed access to everything except the Big 8, which meant inter
alia EVERYTHING in alt.*, though few alt.* news groups were binary.
Second, a simple block on the the binaries news groups
(relatively few in number) plus a "check for and discard
binaries" could have eliminated the pr0n images easily. Similar
screening was already in effect for spam (though it did become
more extensive later), and implementing it against binaries in
news groups would not have been difficult or costly.
Add to that, Verizon later eliminated ALL Usenet News Groups,
even those of impecable scholarly reputation.
Conclusion: Verizon had no interest in supporting Usenet, and
took extreme advantage of the first opportunity "justifying"
termination. Whether Verizon deliberately refrained from acting
on the NYS AG complaint in expectation that an incident would
arise that Verizon could use to justify the reduction in service,
or not, is beyond my ken. But I strongly suspect that it was the
case, at least in deciding what "remedial action" to take.
> Thanks for the list, but why the blocks on addresses? Fortunately
> my needs for a website are relatively modest, so an inexpensive
> plan should be OK. For example, I don't want third-party ads, but
> a banner ad for the hosting service itself wouldn't bother me.
Spammers and malware sites. Plus, I would expect companies to
block pr0n and other sites that tend to distract employees from
doing what they are being paid to do. GoDaddy and the other "most
popular" ISPs became most popular by exerting virtually no
control over who did what using their capabilities.
Jim Beard
> Jim Beard wrote:
>
>> but several (maybe 7 or 8) years ago, Earthlink offered ADSL in my
>
> And I suppose that even if Verizon had been forced to provide DSL
> to your home, for every DSL problem VZ and Earthlink would have
> blamed the other.
No doubt. But the distance central office to my home as
calculated by Verizon was barely over the limit (a few hundred
feed beyond a 17,000 foot limit, I think -- would have to dig out
old paperwork to confirm), so I think it would have worked fine,
if perhaps not at "maximum possible" speed.
> At this moment, VZ's website says that even DSL isn't available
> at my location(!). And no FIOS either. I'm not even sure what
> they'll do when it comes to wiring my apartment complex for FIOS,
> as all the wiring within the complex is underground -- on the
> pole on the street, you can see the wires heading down into the
> ground. Well, maybe that's what the occasional manhole covers are
> for... underground tunnels, like the ones we used to explore in
> college.
"New technology" is available in the form of "moles" that will
bore a tunnel a few inches in diameter horizontally (or at any
desired incline) underground. Laser distance and direction
finders are used to position and guide the moles. All that is
needed is a big enough hole in the ground at one end to get the
equipment down to the level you desire to bore the tunnel at and
a hole at the other end allowing you to bring up the conduit, and
extensible or flexible conduit to line the borehole. It does
help if you know where all other power, gas, and other utility
lines are in the area. :)
Adam
> On 07/30/2011 06:33 PM, Adam wrote:
> Very sensible that. We have lots of separated small spaces
> some surprising excavators for new building or repairs.
Excavation is often full of surprises, and it can be amazing how
much man-made activity takes place underground. There are also
numerous underground vaults for storing temperature- and
humidity-sensitive materials.
> Well it was in use some of it at that time, since it was
> the technology understood at the time we have some since
> the quake but all that unreinforced masonry is now over 100
> years old and constantly causing problems. Some of the
> other stuff gives way as well under stress.
I'm surprised any of the underground tunnels survived the 1906
earthquake/fire.
Adam
Adam
> On 07/30/2011 11:31 PM, Adam wrote:
> Close, but I doubt the implications are what your understanding
> would imply. There was a complaint, one that Verizon did not act on
> (perhaps with intent to create an incident that would "justify"
> dumping Usenet), but there was no "massive fine."
Oh, okay. I was more concerned about how it would affect me than by
the reasons for the various actions.
> Conclusion: Verizon had no interest in supporting Usenet, and took
> extreme advantage of the first opportunity "justifying" termination.
That makes sense. Probably a fairly small proportion of their
customers had any Usenet activity anyway. These days, I think most
people online don't even know what Usenet is. Also, with the free
news servers available, I suspect Verizon lost extremely few
customers by dropping Usenet.
My guess is that dropping web hosting is the next thing on their agenda.
>> Thanks for the list, but why the blocks on addresses?
>
> Spammers and malware sites. Plus, I would expect companies to block
> pr0n and other sites that tend to distract employees from doing what
> they are being paid to do. GoDaddy and the other "most popular" ISPs
> became most popular by exerting virtually no control over who did
> what using their capabilities.
Ah, I see. That's certainly something for me to take into account
should I decide to go with one of the web hosting companies out
there. Thanks for all the helpful advice!
Adam
Moe Trin
<j12i9s$vi4$1...@dont-email.me>, Adam wrote:
>Moe Trin wrote:
>>> One app I liked when I was running Mandriva 2008.1 wouldn't work
>>> under 2010.0 because it depended on KDE3 libraries.
>> I try to avoid desktop specific tools if possible.
>I hadn't realized it was desktop-specific, even if its name did
>start with "k". Fortunately it didn't take me long to find another
>app that did essentially the same task for me.
That's usually the case
>I have both the KDE and Gnome libraries installed (even though I use
>neither as my desktop environment), and I tend to forget which, if
>either, any particular program requires.
Try to avoid running applications using the KDE and Gnome libraries at
the same time - each one takes up a lot of space/memory, and having
both libraries loaded at the same time uses a lot of memory.
>>> Another program I like is in Python, but I don't know enough of
>>> it to fix "DeprecationWarning: the md5 module is deprecated;
>>> use hashlib instead"
>> Essentially, that's saying that MD5 is not secure enough and it
>> will be replaced by SHA256 or AES. The problem is that a LOT of
>> things still use MD5, and replacing it is going to break a lot of
>> stuff - as one example, the security signatures in rpm, dpkg, and
>> md5sum itself.
>And I can't even understand why the program I'm referring to even
>uses MD5 at all. It's mainly a combination of par2repair and unrar.
I can't say - MD5 is/was used both as a security hash for signing,
and as a simple hash/checksum generator. I can see it used in an
archiver as the later.
>> But why install the Debian/Ubuntu package rather than the Mandriva
>> ones?
>Because that's the only way it was available:
>http://www.irasnyder.com/devel/#rarslave .
Ah, misunderstood - I thought you were referring to Python itself.
>It hadn't occurred to me that installing all those fonts would slow
>down so many apps. In fact, it seems to have overwhelmed
>LibreOffice, which uses the correct font name but some other font.
>OO.o is fine that way.
It may be that the apps are loading the fonts, whether used or not.
'ldd $NAME_OF_EXECUTABLE' might give a hint.
[verizon ! FTP]
>> As the removal of the 'alt.*' hierarchy from their news servers
>> two or three years ago.
>That one was actually their own fault. The NYS AG's office made an
>anonymous complaint to VZ about accessible child porn, and VZ, /in
>violation of their own TOS/, did nothing. To avoid a massive fine,
>they settled with the NYS AG that they would remove access to all
>binary NGs. That's how I understand the story, anyway.
I think Jim's response is more accurate
>I don't follow any of the Linux magazines, as I'm assuming much of
>the same information is online elsewhere. How much am I missing?
Probably not very much. I'm getting more and more disappointed in
Linux Journal (I've been a subscriber for about 14 years). They also
have an on-line version, but that hasn't impressed me either.
>> GoDaddy was the pick, followed by Contegix, Dreamhost, Rackspace
>> and 1&1 - but clumps of each of their address space are black-holed
>> here.
>Thanks for the list, but why the blocks on addresses?
Again, see Jim's response. The Usenet newsgroups news.admin.net-abuse.*
are not very active any more (n.a.n-a.blocklisting and n.a.n-a.sightings
were helpful), but there are a number of bandwidth providers (and
registrars) who have a reputation of having a blind eye to abusers.
Many are more interested in seeing that the credit card cleared than
what the customer might be doing. In some cases, we merely block a
datacenter, while in others we block a whole ASN (essentially all
their address space).
[preserving photos]
>I went up in my parents' attic today and it was about 100F there, so
>my mother and I agreed to wait until October or so before looking
>there again. Any damage due to heat extremes is already done, so I
>don't think the wait will matter much.
Is the attic insulated? Roof or ceiling? (Insulation in the roof
tends to keep the attic at a more reasonable temperature, while
insulation in the ceiling is often thicker which keeps the house at
a more reasonable temperature. Rarely, you'll find both.)
>> and not knowing what is there isn't helping. Some of it could be
>> tossed and never missed, while some (likely few) items are
>> invaluable.
>There's actually a list of what's stored in their attic, but it's
>not clear about Grandpa's stuff. Most of what's there are suitcases
>anyway.
Depends on how much is there, but having an inventory never hurts.
>> I probably spent two weeks replacing the holders, and then moved
>> them to a sealed container for slightly more protection (remember a
>> thing called a "Seal-A-Meal").
>I remember the Seal-A-Meal!
We used that a LOT. It's perfect for keeping things "safe" and
organized that you probably won't need - like old check registers to
keep the IRS happy, etc. For stuff that you need more access, we've
used zip-closure freezer bags which are then kept in boxes to prevent
UV problems. Both the Seal-A-Meal and zip-lock bags contain an
inventory sheet visible externally so we have a clue what's in there.
>> People around here are more or less used to seeing older folk doing
>> stupid things like jogging, bike riding, roller-blading and the
>> like. (As long as we stay away from Spandex/Lycra.)
>Yeah, but there are a lot more older folks where you are.
Don't I know that. Actually, the early mornings are ideal for getting
the exercise - it hasn't heated up that much, and if you stay away
from the main-drags, the traffic is fairly light.
>> Are the meds more or less stabilized now? Knowing more on nutrition
>> might be helpful.
>The immunosuppressants seem to have gotten about as low as they're
>going to get (that basically meant reducing them until my levels got
>too low, then backtracking), but it seems my level for Prograf has
>become high, so they're making a slight reduction in it.
I really like that idea - I know very little about Prograf, but what
I do know scares me a bit.
> This time the PA saw me instead of one of the MDs, which I figure
>is also a good sign.
Definitely. Most of the time that I go in to the dermatologist (skin
cancer) now, I'm seeing a PA, and he's a lot easier to talk to. The
pulmonologist I was seeing (spot on the left lung) dumped me off to a
PA for about two years, then finally told me not to bother unless one
of the other specialists noticed something. That was six years ago.
>In other news, my MP3 player decided on its own to erase all my
>music files. They were all copied from elsewhere, but it might be a
>sign that I should get a new one soon.
Or it's been r00ted by some Intellectual Property Rights virus ;-)
Old guy
Moe Trin
<pcidnfhwCprBw6jT...@posted.lerostechnologies>, Jim Beard wrote:
>Conclusion: Verizon had no interest in supporting Usenet, and
>took extreme advantage of the first opportunity "justifying"
>termination. Whether Verizon deliberately refrained from acting
>on the NYS AG complaint in expectation that an incident would
>arise that Verizon could use to justify the reduction in service,
>or not, is beyond my ken. But I strongly suspect that it was the
>case, at least in deciding what "remedial action" to take.
I think you hit it exactly. A number of the major ISPs have done
so as well - including some that I don't believe even have any
significant business or presence in New York.
>Plus, I would expect companies to block pr0n and other sites that
>tend to distract employees from doing what they are being paid to do.
Don't forget that the company can get into legal problems if other
employees file sexual harassment complaints about idiots viewing pr0n
on company hardware. It's also about blocking holes around the company
firewalls. Long time ago, we put in blocks to residential providers -
to prevent employees from putting in a proxy server at home, and using
that to gain access to sites that are blocked directly. Companies who
use windoze as their primary userland O/S have found such blocks reduce
the number of mal-ware problems.
>GoDaddy and the other "most popular" ISPs became most popular by
>exerting virtually no control over who did what using their
>capabilities.
It's a very competitive business, and automation and out-sourcing has
been developed to reduce costs. This also reduces oversight, but
every business school grad knows cost containment is more important.
Some may remember a blackhat attempt in October 2004 when someone
registered a domain using an Australian registrar on a weekend
(Sunday in Oz, Saturday in Europe and the Americas), put up the
mal-ware site on an automated server setup in California, and tried to
spread some nasties. It was _apparently_ on-line for 36 hours before
the Powers That Be finally noticed and shut things down. Story later
came out that the credit card number used to pay for the registration
and the mal-ware server rental was stolen, so the registrar and hosting
company also didn't get paid. That may have gotten more attention at
the registrar and hosting company than the fact that their automated
systems were exposed as being a security problem.
Old guy
Moe Trin
<j14mgs$60o$1...@dont-email.me>, Adam wrote:
>Bobbie Sellers wrote:
>> Well it was in use some of it at that time, since it was
>> the technology understood at the time we have some since
>> the quake but all that unreinforced masonry is now over 100
>> years old and constantly causing problems. Some of the
>> other stuff gives way as well under stress.
In spite of lessons not learned in the October 8, 1865 quake on the
San Andreas and the October 21, 1868 quake on the Hayward fault, both
of which caused significant damage in the landfill areas in the city
(just as the April 18, 1906 and October 17, 1989 quakes did).
>I'm surprised any of the underground tunnels survived the 1906
>earthquake/fire.
Why? The earthquake didn't level the city, or anything approaching
that damage level. Land fill areas (former marshes) near the Ferry
building, the area "South of Market" and the Marina district had a lot
of soil liquefaction problems, and some of the underground (and
surface[1]) utilities were damaged there. Some buildings collapsed or
had pieces fall off (city hall), but the real damage in the city was
the result of the fires and the lack of water to fight the fires. A
lot of that lack was due to the failure of some water lines, and the
small size of the hilltop reservoirs. The damage to some waterlines
re-occurred in the 1989 quake (which is one reason SF Fire keeps a
fire-boat in commission even today - I still remember TV footage of
residents carrying a fire hose from Marina Green up the streets to the
fires) but my mother-in-law living about a mile from the Marina
district (in Russian Hill) never lost water. Surface fires don't
damage/destroy underground things.
Old guy
[1] From the late 1890s, one of the water sources for the city was
Lobos Creek near Baker Beach about a 1.2 miles SSW of the Golden Gate
and a surface viaduct carried water from the creek to near Fort Mason
(near Fisherman's Wharf).
Bobbie Sellers
> On Sun, 31 Jul 2011, in the Usenet newsgroup alt.os.linux.mandriva, in article
> <j14mgs$60o$1...@dont-email.me>, Adam wrote:
>
>> Bobbie Sellers wrote:
>
>>> Well it was in use some of it at that time, since it was
>>> the technology understood at the time we have some since
>>> the quake but all that unreinforced masonry is now over 100
>>> years old and constantly causing problems. Some of the
>>> other stuff gives way as well under stress.
>
> In spite of lessons not learned in the October 8, 1865 quake on the
> San Andreas and the October 21, 1868 quake on the Hayward fault, both
> of which caused significant damage in the landfill areas in the city
> (just as the April 18, 1906 and October 17, 1989 quakes did).
used to be a forest and the Berkeley Hills were logged for redwood.
So there were very few people available to learn anything in the earlier
quakes. A lot of people learned of course that the ground in the
SFBA shook a lot and took their ways back to the supposedly less
shaky ground to the East.
At the time of the earlier quakes as well a lot of
landfill had not been done. The Marina area for example was
used for cow pasture and the lagoon there was called Washerwomen's
lagoon.
The city by the time of the 1906 event was very different
with the fill being occupied by lots of wooden buildings and
of course some collapsed then being on on fill of excavated
sand and old sailing ships which had been abandoned by their
crews in the Gold Rush time.
>
>> I'm surprised any of the underground tunnels survived the 1906
>> earthquake/fire.
>
> Why? The earthquake didn't level the city, or anything approaching
> that damage level. Land fill areas (former marshes) near the Ferry
> building, the area "South of Market" and the Marina district had a lot
> of soil liquefaction problems, and some of the underground (and
> surface[1]) utilities were damaged there. Some buildings collapsed or
> had pieces fall off (city hall), but the real damage in the city was
> the result of the fires and the lack of water to fight the fires. A
> lot of that lack was due to the failure of some water lines, and the
> small size of the hilltop reservoirs. The damage to some waterlines
> re-occurred in the 1989 quake (which is one reason SF Fire keeps a
> fire-boat in commission even today - I still remember TV footage of
> residents carrying a fire hose from Marina Green up the streets to the
> fires) but my mother-in-law living about a mile from the Marina
> district (in Russian Hill) never lost water. Surface fires don't
> damage/destroy underground things.
Yes but earth quakes per se do destroy lots of stuff above and
below ground where we have utility lines now of several types including
water, electricity and natural gas. It is a retroactive surprise
that the Quake of 1989 did not set off the poorly constructed gas
line in San Bruno which erupted spontaneously last year.
>
> Old guy
>
> [1] From the late 1890s, one of the water sources for the city was
> Lobos Creek near Baker Beach about a 1.2 miles SSW of the Golden Gate
> and a surface viaduct carried water from the creek to near Fort Mason
> (near Fisherman's Wharf).
>
One of the surviving but repaired tunnels from the time
after the 1906 quake is the one that takes a creek that drains
through what is now the foundations of the new City Hall
and fully enclosed the creek. The fire in 1906 of course
brought down the then new City Hall. Presently the SF Main
Public Library is there and I got to watch the stages of the
excavation of the old City Hall foundations. Presently in
the Grove Street Entrance to the SFPL Main a display sits
of various items found in the excavation. A multi-cultural
display with items from all the groups then in the city.
bliss
Adam
> in the Usenet newsgroup alt.os.linux.mandriva, Adam wrote:
>> it didn't take me long to find another
>> app that did essentially the same task for me.
>
> That's usually the case
Usually, but not always. I'm not sure about a replacement for "md5
deprecated" rarslave.
> Try to avoid running applications using the KDE and Gnome libraries at
> the same time - each one takes up a lot of space/memory, and having
> both libraries loaded at the same time uses a lot of memory.
Thanks! I'd never considered that. I often seem to have background
apps or daemons from both groups running at the same time. I
suppose the kernel is "smart enough" to reclaim the memory used by
the KDE libs when the last KDE app is closed, and likewise for Gnome
apps.
>> And I can't even understand why [rarslave] even
>> uses MD5 at all. It's mainly a combination of par2repair and unrar.
>
> I can't say - MD5 is/was used both as a security hash for signing,
> and as a simple hash/checksum generator. I can see it used in an
> archiver as the later.
But unrar runs by itself without any warnings. Well, I suppose
that's what open source code is for. :-)
>> It hadn't occurred to me that installing all those fonts would slow
>> down so many apps. In fact, it seems to have overwhelmed
>> LibreOffice, which uses the correct font name but some other font.
>> OO.o is fine that way.
>
> It may be that the apps are loading the fonts, whether used or not.
> 'ldd $NAME_OF_EXECUTABLE' might give a hint.
A quick look didn't show anything interesting, but I suspect that's
what's happening. My current strategy is just to put up with the
inconveniences and delays for now, because that will automatically
get taken care of when I migrate to the next Linux release. I'm
going to be a lot more particular about which fonts I install!
That still doesn't explain why LibreOffice Writer would use the
correct font name but display some unrelated font instead, when OO.o
gets it right. When I'm using something common like Vera Sans or
Courier and LO displays the characters in some hard-to-read graffiti
font, well, that's why I'm using OO.o for now.
[verizon ! FTP]
>>> As the removal of the 'alt.*' hierarchy from their news servers
>>> two or three years ago.
[...]
> I think Jim's response is more accurate
Yeah, probably. It was a convenient excuse for VZ to get out of the
news server biz. And I suppose most of their customers didn't care,
anyway. I don't know the percentage of online users that follow
Usenet (anybody have an idea?), but I suspect it's small, even
including lurkers, leechers, and Google Groups users.
>>> GoDaddy was the pick, followed by Contegix, Dreamhost, Rackspace
>>> and 1&1 - but clumps of each of their address space are black-holed
>>> here.
I spent a while yesterday playing with Verizon's site builder tool,
and (while I still could) using FTP to see what files it created and
where -- anyone interested can see my posts in
alt.online-service.verizon . Excerpt:
"So my current conclusion is that the Verizon site builder tool
should be /adequate/ for my current needs (though hardly ideal),
although I'll have to make a lot of design concessions and it's a
PITA to use. My search for a better web host isn't urgent. Of
course that conclusion may not apply to anybody but myself."
It turns out that I /can/ upload any file (except for *.js) for
others to download, but the user has to intentionally click on
"Click here to download my resume" or whatever text I've chosen. (I
won't argue with that; I don't think any file should get downloaded
without the user's knowledge and approval.) Although they allow
uploaded HTML they embed it in one of their own pages, and don't
seem to allow a separate CSS file to be uploaded. I'd guess that
inline CSS would work, though I haven't tried it. As I said above,
if I'm willing to make a lot of design compromises (and concessions)
and live with the limitations of their site builder program, what
they'll be offering should be /adequate/ for my purposes, though
hardly ideal, and finding a new web host can wait for a while.
I was surprised to discover that "wget -r" (or "wget -m") won't
retrieve the entire contents of my website. There are at least two
directories it won't go into (error 301 "permanently redirected"
followed by 403 "not authorized"), although wget will retrieve files
down in those directories if I specify the full path to the file.
(Of course once I lose FTP access, I won't be able to tell what
files and directories exist there.) Any guesses as to what might be
going on? My guess is a permissions problem, and I don't have
permission to change the permissions. All files and directories I
can see have user and owner "web", with permissions 775 for
directories and 664 for files. I tried using "wget -U mozilla" and
"wget -U firefox" but those didn't make any difference. This isn't
an important point, though, just curiosity.
[preserving photos]
>> I went up in my parents' attic today and it was about 100F there, so
>> my mother and I agreed to wait until October or so before looking
>> there again.
>
> Is the attic insulated? Roof or ceiling?
Ceiling -- I remember helping Dad install it after the energy crisis
of '73.
>> it seems my level for Prograf has
>> become high, so they're making a slight reduction in it.
>
> I really like that idea - I know very little about Prograf, but what
> I do know scares me a bit.
Well, /anything/ beats steroids.
During a storm yesterday, I had 17 brief (<1s) power outages within
12 minutes. The UPS has definitely earned its keep. OTOH I've had
it over a year, and not once has power been out long enough for it
to even sound its alarm (which I've set to happen at 1m after mains
failure).
Adam
Moe Trin
<j172s4$cl2$1...@dont-email.me>, Bobbie Sellers wrote:
>Moe Trin wrote:
>> In spite of lessons not learned in the October 8, 1865 quake on the
>> San Andreas and the October 21, 1868 quake on the Hayward fault,
>> both of which caused significant damage in the landfill areas in the
>> city (just as the April 18, 1906 and October 17, 1989 quakes did).
> At the time of the earlier quakes as well a lot of
>landfill had not been done. The Marina area for example was
>used for cow pasture and the lagoon there was called Washerwomen's
>lagoon.
Earthquake of October 8, 1865 -- San Francisco Maximum Intensity IX
Shaking was heaviest in San Francisco, where two shocks caused
damage to City Hall and the area along Market Street. On the marshy
lands South of Market, lamp posts and water and gas pipes were
broken and a few fissures were opened in the soft soil. There were
no deaths.
The shock was fairly heavy in San Jose, where the jail and the
Methodist Church were damaged. Near Santa Cruz Gap Road, chimneys
were thrown down and many landslides covered the lower areas with
debris. Streams near Los Gatos increased their flow, and many wells
in Santa Clara County ran dry.
That's from a dead tree published in 1976 by Sunset quoting USGS.
>> The earthquake didn't level the city, or anything approaching that
>> damage level. Land fill areas (former marshes) near the Ferry
>> building, the area "South of Market" and the Marina district had a
>> lot of soil liquefaction problems, and some of the underground (and
>> surface[1]) utilities were damaged there.
>Yes but earth quakes per se do destroy lots of stuff above and below
>ground where we have utility lines now of several types including
>water, electricity and natural gas.
The _general_shaking_ of a quake does little harm to underground stuff
unless there is disruption of the surface - unfortunately all of the
photos I have access to merely identify things as "in the marina
district" and I don't know the district well enough to positively
identify locations they are showing, but there was some subsidence
and some compression buckling there. That is what caused most of the
damage to underground stuff. My mother-in-law on Larkin didn't loose
water, and only momentarily lost electrical. She didn't mention gas.
>It is a retroactive surprise that the Quake of 1989 did not set off the
>poorly constructed gas line in San Bruno which erupted spontaneously
>last year.
I'm looking at USGS maps and publications, and the damage in the San
Bruno are was relatively mild (MMI VI - which is to say plaster cracks
and pictures off the wall due to swaying, but actual damage limited to
poorly built buildings only) and the ground didn't rupture.
>> [1] From the late 1890s, one of the water sources for the city was
>> Lobos Creek near Baker Beach about a 1.2 miles SSW of the Golden
>> Gate and a surface viaduct carried water from the creek to near Fort
>> Mason (near Fisherman's Wharf).
>One of the surviving but repaired tunnels from the time
>after the 1906 quake is the one that takes a creek that drains
>through what is now the foundations of the new City Hall
>and fully enclosed the creek. The fire in 1906 of course
>brought down the then new City Hall.
Yup - I've got a very nice photo taken after the quake, but before
the fires got going. The tower was wrecked, and some of the walls
came down as well. From that Sunset book:
The highest MM (Modified Mercalli) intensity in the downtown area
was probably IX or X, but there were great variations within short
distances due to the differences in soil conditions.
An accompanying map shows pretty heavy damage roughly South of Army
and East of what is now the James Lick Freeway, and relatively little
damage North of Army East of the freeway - almost up to Mariposa.
>Presently in the Grove Street Entrance to the SFPL Main a display
>sits of various items found in the excavation. A multi-cultural
>display with items from all the groups then in the city.
That sounds fascinating.
Old guy
Moe Trin
<j19luk$co2$1...@dont-email.me>, Adam wrote:
>Moe Trin wrote:
>>> it didn't take me long to find another app that did essentially
>>> the same task for me.
>> That's usually the case
>Usually, but not always. I'm not sure about a replacement for "md5
>deprecated" rarslave.
I'm not sure rarslave is even being maintained, but I don't use either
of those archivers.
>> Try to avoid running applications using the KDE and Gnome libraries
>> at the same time - each one takes up a lot of space/memory, and
>> having both libraries loaded at the same time uses a lot of memory.
>Thanks! I'd never considered that. I often seem to have background
>apps or daemons from both groups running at the same time.
Just be aware of the "expense" of doing so.
>I suppose the kernel is "smart enough" to reclaim the memory used by
>the KDE libs when the last KDE app is closed, and likewise for Gnome
>apps.
Yes and no - the kernel doesn't so much reclaim the memory, as mark
it as reusable. It still has the shared libraries under the premise
that you may load another application that uses them, and this would
save loading time. The unused shares will eventually be used for some
other purpose, but if there is no immediate need for the memory space,
this will be delayed.
>> MD5 is/was used both as a security hash for signing, and as a
>> simple hash/checksum generator. I can see it used in an archiver
>> as the later.
>But unrar runs by itself without any warnings. Well, I suppose
>that's what open source code is for. :-)
But how old is the unrar app? Looking at the CERN docs, it appears
to be somewhat elderly - with the last update in 2007. While the
problems with MD5 were first mooted in 1993 (a year after it was
standardized), the black-hat tools weren't introduced until after
the EUROCRYPT 2005, and things really didn't get out of hand until
about 2009. "Ignorance is bliss"? (Not referring to B. Sellers.)
[verizon ! FTP]
>> I think Jim's response is more accurate
>Yeah, probably. It was a convenient excuse for VZ to get out of the
>news server biz. And I suppose most of their customers didn't care,
>anyway. I don't know the percentage of online users that follow
>Usenet (anybody have an idea?), but I suspect it's small, even
>including lurkers, leechers, and Google Groups users.
It's difficult to say, but a lot of ordinary Internet users have no
idea what is going on. Their knowledge is totally limited to the fact
that all systems on the Internet have names beginning with "www" and
ending with ".com". Heck, they've even lost most of what they thought
they knew about email. Consequently, only a small percentage was even
aware that Usenet existed, never mind what it was and how it was
accessed. Many of the hard-core users of Usenet are more specialized
and highly skilled (at least in some areas).
>It turns out that I /can/ upload any file (except for *.js)
Is it the extension, or file content that causes problems?
>for others to download, but the user has to intentionally click on
>"Click here to download my resume" or whatever text I've chosen. (I
>won't argue with that; I don't think any file should get downloaded
>without the user's knowledge and approval.) Although they allow
>uploaded HTML they embed it in one of their own pages, and don't
>seem to allow a separate CSS file to be uploaded. I'd guess that
>inline CSS would work, though I haven't tried it.
Again, is it the filename/extension or the contents that trigger this?
>As I said above, if I'm willing to make a lot of design compromises
>(and concessions) and live with the limitations of their site builder
>program, what they'll be offering should be /adequate/ for my
>purposes, though hardly ideal, and finding a new web host can wait
>for a while.
It may have dropped from "mandatory - do it now!!!" priority, but I'd
think you don't want to put things off very much.
>I was surprised to discover that "wget -r" (or "wget -m") won't
>retrieve the entire contents of my website. There are at least two
>directories it won't go into (error 301 "permanently redirected"
>followed by 403 "not authorized"), although wget will retrieve files
>down in those directories if I specify the full path to the file.
Is that a wget issue - there used to be a problem about spanning
hosts in recursion.
[parent's house]
>> Is the attic insulated? Roof or ceiling?
>Ceiling -- I remember helping Dad install it after the energy crisis
>of '73.
Ceiling insulation is somewhat more common, because with blow-in, you
can install really large R-values (our ceiling has R38, which is about
a foot deep). The problem is that much insulation limits access (you
can't even see the ceiling joists, much less walk on them) and in our
case, the builder installed elevated walkways so that you have access
to the air-handlers and attic fans. On the other hand, trying to
install it in the roof generally means batts or rolls, and that
typically limits you to no thicker than the rafters (here, 2x6s which
means R19 max). Even so, it's quite hot up there, and I'm not sure
how much I'd like to put things up there even if it were practical for
me to do so. (There's a pair of thermostatically controlled fans up
there that exhaust hot air - they kick on at 135F/57C.)
>> I know very little about Prograf, but what I do know scares me a bit.
>Well, /anything/ beats steroids.
I don't know enough about the trade-offs to make a rational decision.
>During a storm yesterday, I had 17 brief (<1s) power outages within
>12 minutes. The UPS has definitely earned its keep.
Sounds like wind blowing the lines in proximity such that a momentary
arc occurs. We've had some rather interesting wind problems of late -
including several rather severe dust storms. (Cleanup is a real pain,
as the dust is as fine as dry cement, and doesn't sweep or vacuum
easily.) The storm that went through Monday night did it's usual and
knocked down some power lines (snapping the poles off near the base)
in residential and business areas closer to down-town. Most of the
lines in the outer areas are underground, and immune to wind damage.
>OTOH I've had it over a year, and not once has power been out long
>enough for it to even sound its alarm (which I've set to happen at 1m
>after mains failure).
Be careful what you wish for ;-)
Old guy
Adam
> in the Usenet newsgroup alt.os.linux.mandriva, Adam wrote:
>> I suppose the kernel is "smart enough" to reclaim the memory used by
>> the KDE libs when the last KDE app is closed, and likewise for Gnome
>> apps.
>
> Yes and no - the kernel doesn't so much reclaim the memory, as mark
> it as reusable.
I forgot about that -- we covered that in OS class 20+ years ago.
When RAM is needed and those pages have the oldest "last accessed"
time, if altered those pages get written to disk, then either way
they're overwritten. Or something like that. I got it right in the
class project (simulated batch multiprocessing OS in a HLL) and
since then, I've gone back to letting the OS handle memory management.
[verizon ! FTP]
> a lot of ordinary Internet users have no
> idea what is going on. Their knowledge is totally limited to the fact
> that all systems on the Internet have names beginning with "www" and
> ending with ".com". Heck, they've even lost most of what they thought
> they knew about email.
And (for many users) if they're ambitious enough to create a
personal web page and/or blog, it's mostly so that they can claim
they have one. Few really have anything worth sharing. My web
page, whenever and wherever it may end up, will have at least a
little original content, including netzero-juno.txt and a few bash
scripts I've written. Also what I learned in Web Design class --
form follows function, or: no flashy stuff unless it adds to the site.
> Many of the hard-core users of Usenet are more specialized
> and highly skilled (at least in some areas).
For a long time I was active in one non-tech-related NG, but some of
the regulars are drifting off to Facebook or other web sites.
Recently I used Google Groups to peek at it without "subscribing",
and it had more spam than I'd realized. Makes me appreciate
eternal-september's spam filtering.
>> It turns out that I /can/ upload any file (except for *.js)
>
> Is it the extension, or file content that causes problems?
It now says "except for .jsp". I don't know for sure, but I suspect
it's because they don't want users running their own javascript.
>> Although they allow
>> uploaded HTML they embed it in one of their own pages, and don't
>> seem to allow a separate CSS file to be uploaded. I'd guess that
>> inline CSS would work, though I haven't tried it.
>
> Again, is it the filename/extension or the contents that trigger this?
Well, the page for "upload HTML" doesn't say, but I was assuming it
was meant only for HTML. I did try making the CSS inline, but as
the whole thing was still embedded within one of their own pages, it
still didn't look right.
My latest (ten minutes ago) discovery was that if I upload my HTML
as a file to be downloaded by others, it ends up unaltered in the
~/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderfiles/ directory. Clicking on the
link meant to download the file takes the user to that page, so I
suppose a workaround (unless VZ catches on) would be to use that to
put up my HTML and all its related files (CSS, local images on those
pages, etc.). The disadvantage would be that /all/ the files for
all the webpages would have to go into that directory, so I'd have
to make sure there are no duplicate names. I also learned that
because of Windows limitations, I shouldn't have two filenames that
differ only by case. That /may/ be a short-term workaround, but I
suppose I'd better create and upload the few files that'll help with
that strategy in the next two weeks while I can still use FTP to put
anything anywhere.
>> As I said above, if I'm willing to make a lot of design compromises
>> (and concessions) and live with the limitations of their site builder
>> program, what they'll be offering should be /adequate/ for my
>> purposes, though hardly ideal, and finding a new web host can wait
>> for a while.
>
> It may have dropped from "mandatory - do it now!!!" priority, but I'd
> think you don't want to put things off very much.
It's now a separate item in my to-do database. So far my criteria
are low cost, no ads, FTP, and a good reputation. I haven't looked
into any particular hosts yet, though. Having a personal website
isn't high priority for me.
>> I was surprised to discover that "wget -r" (or "wget -m") won't
>> retrieve the entire contents of my website. There are at least two
>> directories it won't go into (error 301 "permanently redirected"
>> followed by 403 "not authorized"), although wget will retrieve files
>> down in those directories if I specify the full path to the file.
>
> Is that a wget issue - there used to be a problem about spanning
> hosts in recursion.
I don't know. How could I tell, and how can I get around it?
[parent's house]
>>> Is the attic insulated? Roof or ceiling?
>
>> Ceiling -- I remember helping Dad install it after the energy crisis
>> of '73.
>
> Ceiling insulation is somewhat more common, because with blow-in, you
> can install really large R-values
I remember that these were rolls of fiberglass insulation. Ditto
for just underneath the floor (between basement joists), at least
under the bedrooms.
>> During a storm yesterday, I had 17 brief (<1s) power outages within
>> 12 minutes. The UPS has definitely earned its keep.
>
> Sounds like wind blowing the lines in proximity such that a momentary
> arc occurs.
Could it be the electric company switching from one thing to
another? My UPS log goes back to 01 Dec 2010, and it has 50
outages, but none longer than 1s, and most of those occurring in
groups. Six of them occurred in one 15-second interval Monday.
I've never lived anywhere else that had these flickers occurring in
bunches like this.
Meanwhile I'm up to the "print out photos" project using GIMP and my
"new" inkjet, to fill the wall space I'd reserved for that when I
moved in five years ago. Photo-quality printouts on photo paper
come out darker than normal quality on plain paper, but I can't
(yet) anticipate by how much. In one photo of a mostly-black cat, a
lot of fur detail gets lost. Another shot is nice but takes up the
whole width of the 3:2 35mm frame, so either I get legal-size photo
paper and a mat for 8x12 in an 11x14 frame, or I custom cut a mat
for a 7" x 10.5" image. (As I'm still a DCC student, even if I'm
not taking any art courses I could probably get away with using one
of their mat cutters.) And there's always the question of how much
GIMP "enhancement" to apply, but that's really an artistic issue
rather than a technical one.
Adam
Moe Trin
<j1h3on$sjj$1...@dont-email.me>, Adam wrote:
Moe Trin wrote:
>> Yes and no - the kernel doesn't so much reclaim the memory, as mark
>> it as reusable.
>I forgot about that -- we covered that in OS class 20+ years ago.
>When RAM is needed and those pages have the oldest "last accessed"
>time, if altered those pages get written to disk, then either way
>they're overwritten. Or something like that.
Libraries shouldn't be being altered, but that's the basic concept.
>And (for many users) if they're ambitious enough to create a
>personal web page and/or blog, it's mostly so that they can claim
>they have one. Few really have anything worth sharing.
About mid-1994, we were informed that the web was to be "the" thing,
and we should be setting up web pages on an internal server at each
facility. There was some talk that the quality of the web pages we
created would be part of the employee annual evaluation - but cooler
(or less dumb) heads dropped that idea. The web pages were relatively
pathetic to put it mildly. We did get department web pages which were
slightly more interesting/entertaining - one of the people in the
department was really in to Samoyed sled dogs (this was well known in
the facility), and thus two of them were in the "department" photograph
(inappropriately wearing a pack harness carrying two computers - doesn't
everyone have a sled dog as a pack-mule, rather than a student intern?)
but other than giving a useful email address and hell-desk numbers to
reach network support people, the page wasn't that helpful.
>> Many of the hard-core users of Usenet are more specialized
>> and highly skilled (at least in some areas).
>For a long time I was active in one non-tech-related NG, but some of
>the regulars are drifting off to Facebook or other web sites.
I wonder where some of the experts have disappeared to. If you look
at the "http://groups.google.com/group/comp.os.linux.*/about" pages,
a lot of people have just plain disappeared. Some were students who
finally graduated and got a full time job, but others?
>Recently I used Google Groups to peek at it without "subscribing",
>and it had more spam than I'd realized. Makes me appreciate
>eternal-september's spam filtering.
A year or two ago, I had an account that gave me administrative
access to the company news server, which only carries the official
Big-Eight groups, and a limited selection of alternative groups (about
7000 groups, compared to about 47000 on one system we peer with, 52000
on another, and 111000 on this server I post through). Using cleanfeed
to cull a lot of the BS, there's still a significant amount of spam
that gets through. I can see the result where leafnode or slrnpull
says a provider has 100 articles in a group, and yet only 30-40 are
actually there before the filter on the downloader - recent example:
Fetching articles for comp.os.linux.misc.
comp.os.linux.misc: Retrieving articles 740770-740824.
comp.os.linux.misc: 14 duplicates removed leaving 10/24.
comp.os.linux.misc: 10 articles available.
comp.os.linux.misc: 10/10 (4 killed)
Article numbers 740770 to 740824 had been assigned since the last time
I downloaded - yet only 24 of those 55 articles were actually available
(and 14 of those were cross-posted to other groups that I'd already
downloaded) before my killfile started looking. What happened? They
likely got kicked off the server by cleanfeed or similar. (This shows
up as missing article sequence numbers - look at the "Xref:" header).
[verizon ! FTP]
>> Is it the extension, or file content that causes problems?
>It now says "except for .jsp". I don't know for sure, but I suspect
>it's because they don't want users running their own javascript.
I was curious if you could upload it with a different name, and once
uploaded, either change the name, or the URI.
>I also learned that because of Windows limitations, I shouldn't have
>two filenames that differ only by case.
Depends - if you follow through the various RFCS, things ``should''
be case-insensitive, but Jon Postel always preached about being
conservative/careful in what you send/code, and liberal in what you
accept from clients.
>> It may have dropped from "mandatory - do it now!!!" priority, but
>> I'd think you don't want to put things off very much.
>It's now a separate item in my to-do database. So far my criteria
>are low cost, no ads, FTP, and a good reputation. I haven't looked
>into any particular hosts yet, though. Having a personal website
>isn't high priority for me.
Some of the use may be class/school related - does DCC offer at least
limited (class related) servers?
>> There are at least two directories it won't go into (error 301
>> "permanently redirected" followed by 403 "not authorized"),
>> although wget will retrieve files down in those directories if I
>> specify the full path to the file.
>> Is that a wget issue - there used to be a problem about spanning
>> hosts in recursion.
>I don't know. How could I tell, and how can I get around it?
Sniff the packets and see who are they being sent to (by IP) in
addition to looking at the actual "GET" command on the wire. Then
look at the error messages and see who is sending them.
[parent's house]
>> Ceiling insulation is somewhat more common, because with blow-in,
>> you can install really large R-values
>I remember that these were rolls of fiberglass insulation. Ditto
>for just underneath the floor (between basement joists), at least
>under the bedrooms.
Blow-in takes added equipment to place it, but that can be rented or
borrowed, and makes the job go a lot faster. Rolls are easier for
the home-owner, because there's no skill needed to get the "right"
amount installed (a big problem with blow-in). Basements? What
are those? ;-) Nearly everything here is slab constructed. When
I helped insulate two places in Connecticut, we didn't do the floor
but rather insulated the cellar walls as well (adding joists in one
house originally built in the 1870s). This had the added advantage of
making the cellar somewhat less uncomfortable.
>>> During a storm yesterday, I had 17 brief (<1s) power outages
>>> within 12 minutes. The UPS has definitely earned its keep.
>> Sounds like wind blowing the lines in proximity such that a
>> momentary arc occurs.
>Could it be the electric company switching from one thing to
>another?
If it is, I'd be screaming at the state regulatory agency - switching
since the 1960s should be nearly invisible (dropout of less than a
cycle, and original and replacement source phase locked so that the
"spike" or "transient" is minimized).
>My UPS log goes back to 01 Dec 2010, and it has 50 outages, but none
>longer than 1s, and most of those occurring in groups. Six of them
>occurred in one 15-second interval Monday. I've never lived anywhere
>else that had these flickers occurring in bunches like this.
I can't say that I've seen much if any. Normally, the flickers here
only occur during storms - when the wind is blowing the power lines
around. Both here in Arizona and in California, the state utility
regulators and state fire marshal tend to demand that the utility
companies keep trees away from power lines (there have been a huge
number of wild fires caused by arcs from line to trees), and also
that the lines are built such that wind-slap (parallel wires bouncing
such that they get to close to one-another) rarely occurs. What you
normally see is a 1 second drop (which may be repeated a second apart)
as a circuit interrupter on a pole someplace blows open, and then
automatically resets. The one second is _usually_ long enough to
quench any arc, and let the lines get away from what-ever they are
arcing to. If that event happens, it suggests the utility isn't
maintaining the lines to the standard the regulators would expect.
The one second value is a mechanical inertia type of thing.
>Meanwhile I'm up to the "print out photos" project using GIMP and my
>"new" inkjet, to fill the wall space I'd reserved for that when I
>moved in five years ago.
"Reserved wall space???" Wazzat? It's funny, because when we moved
here from California, for tax reasons we had to buy a house of nearly
twice the square footage (but the same "value") and that means more
wall area (never mind the cathedral ceilings in most places), yet
twice a year we go through the change pictures and wall hangings bit,
just as we did in California.
>Photo-quality printouts on photo paper come out darker than normal
>quality on plain paper, but I can't (yet) anticipate by how much. In
>one photo of a mostly-black cat, a lot of fur detail gets lost.
How much of that is the consistency of the light level around the
computer, and intensity settings of the monitor? I think you
mentioned taking a darkroom class - at least there, it was relatively
easy to get "consistent" results because the main variable was the
negative content, not the light level of the enlarger, etc.
>Another shot is nice but takes up the whole width of the 3:2 35mm
>frame, so either I get legal-size photo paper and a mat for 8x12 in
>an 11x14 frame, or I custom cut a mat for a 7" x 10.5" image.
You don't have 3:2 frames (and mats)? We have more "paintings" (as
opposed to photographs) on the walls, and sizes/ratios vary quite a
bit. One thing I did back in the early 1980s was get the hardware
(mainly router bits, a miter box, back saw, and frame clamps) so I can
build "custom" sized frames. I probably buy more pre-made frames than
build them myself now, but neither is a big deal. (We've a series of
oil prints, water colors and charcoal prints from Japan, and I had to
build frames for all of them because not one was even close to a
"standard" size/format. The "silk" - more likely rayon or nylon -
prints from SE Asia have the same problem.)
>And there's always the question of how much GIMP "enhancement" to
>apply, but that's really an artistic issue rather than a technical one.
True, but how much of the "corrections" (catering to the original
exposure, the degradation of the original negative/print/slide, the
transfer to digitized media, and the qualities of the paper and
printer) could be defined as enhancement? A friend at work has been
trying to reprint (source both prints and original negatives and some
slides) some older work. He showed off a photo of the Grand Canyon
(taken from near Park Hq. on the South Rim) that he had spent literally
weeks tweaking, trying to get the colors to match a print from a book.
How much of that was due to the original color negative (Fujicolor?)
and unidentified paper changing over maybe 35 years? How much due to
the book photo being taken by a different person in a different time
using a different camera/film (never mind the ink used in the book)?
Old guy
Adam
have otherwise died out somewhere in Oklahoma]
Moe Trin wrote:
> in the Usenet newsgroup alt.os.linux.mandriva, Adam wrote:
>> When RAM is needed and those pages have the oldest "last
>> accessed" time, if altered those pages get written to disk,
>> then either way they're overwritten. Or something like that.
>
> Libraries shouldn't be being altered, but that's the basic
> concept.
I should look at how I handled memory management in my OS class
project. IIRC, memory management doesn't know and doesn't care
whether a page is a library or executable code or data. And of
course a library could be altered if the user's overwriting it with
a newer version of that library. If I'm wrong on this, well, I
figure the kernel memory management code was written by someone who
knew how to do it right.
> About mid-1994, we were informed that the web was to be "the"
> thing, and we should be setting up web pages on an internal
> server at each facility. [...] other than giving a useful
> email address and hell-desk numbers to reach network support
> people, the page wasn't that helpful.
I don't even remember being aware of the web until later in the
'90s. Generally, these days corporate web pages are more
entertaining, I suppose because nowadays they're often the first
source of information about the company and its products and services.
> I wonder where some of the experts have disappeared to. If you
> look at the
> "http://groups.google.com/group/comp.os.linux.*/about" pages, a
> lot of people have just plain disappeared. Some were students
> who finally graduated and got a full time job, but others?
I see comp.os.linux.misc dived in 2009 and never recovered. By
comparison, this one isn't doing so badly. And the "non-tech" one I
mentioned seems to be almost holding steady, and most of those
people aren't very technical.
> I can see the
> result where leafnode or slrnpull says a provider has 100
> articles in a group, and yet only 30-40 are actually there before
> the filter on the downloader - recent example:
[...]
> Article numbers 740770 to 740824 had been assigned since the last
> time I downloaded - yet only 24 of those 55 articles were
> actually available [...] They likely got kicked off the server
> by cleanfeed or similar. (This shows up as missing article
> sequence numbers - look at the "Xref:" header).
I suppose that would explain why sometimes my newsreader briefly
reports, say, 30 unread posts, then it suddenly reports 12 and shows
12 unread posts in the group. (I don't actually check the numbers
in the Xref header.) AFAICT eternal-september does a nice job of
stopping the NG spam from even reaching my computer, and I don't
know of any worthwhile posts I've missed. Sometimes in this NG I
only know there was spam because it shows up in the weekly statistics.
[verizon ! FTP]
>> It now says "except for .jsp". I don't know for sure, but I
>> suspect it's because they don't want users running their own
>> javascript.
>
> I was curious if you could upload it with a different name, and
> once uploaded, either change the name, or the URI.
Doesn't look like it. No way to change the filename once FTP is
gone. I gather .jsp is Java, not Javascript, not that I know how to
use either one.
>> I also learned that because of Windows limitations, I shouldn't
>> have two filenames that differ only by case.
>
> Depends - if you follow through the various RFCS, things
> ``should'' be case-insensitive, but Jon Postel always preached
I've found that if you have both MyDog.jpg and mydog.jpg in the same
directory on the *nix web server, when someone running Windows tries
to load the page with one of those, it will almost always get the
wrong one.
> Some of the use may be class/school related - does DCC offer at
> least limited (class related) servers?
Well, I took Web Design there, and if any course would offer the use
of web servers it would be that one -- but no, each of us was
required to get one ourselves, at our own expense. (Admittedly not
much, since we'd only need it for four months.)
>>> There are at least two directories it won't go into (error
>>> 301 "permanently redirected" followed by 403 "not
>>> authorized")
>
> Sniff the packets and see who are they being sent to (by IP) in
> addition to looking at the actual "GET" command on the wire.
> Then look at the error messages and see who is sending them.
mysite.verizon.net first sends a 301, with the new address exactly
the same as the one I'd requested. When wget tries the "new"
address, mysite.verizon.net sends a 403.
The directory mysite.verizon.net/myusername/sitebuildercontent is
managed by VZ's Site Builder (unsupported Trellix) and contains only
two subdirectories, sitebuilderfiles and sitebuilderpictures, and
each of those contains only what I've explicitly uploaded as files
or pictures through Site Builder. There are no subdirectories under
those. What I just discovered is that I can do something like "wget
-r
mysite.verizon.net/myusername/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderfiles/somefile.ext"
where "somefile.ext" is any file I've uploaded there, and wget will
retrieve all files in that directory.
While I can still use FTP, I can see there are also various files
under mysite.verizon.net/myusername/ put there by Site Builder,
including a robots.txt that effectively does nothing, just
"User-Agent: *", and no way to change that (or add .htaccess) once
FTP is gone.
The slightly exciting news is that I found a partial workaround
(okay, kludge) for being forced to use Verizon's Site Builder. If I
use the "Download Files" feature to upload all my web files, they'll
all end up in 'sitebuilderfiles'. I can then create a home page
(index.html) using Site Builder, and use its "Add HTML" feature to
add one line to redirect it to my former index.html, now in
sitebuilderfiles/. I wrote the whole process up and posted it in
alt.online-service.verizon. It's definitely a kludge, but it worked
when I tried it on another account of mine. It also means I can
postpone my search for a new web host for a while, possibly a long
while if my website needs stay modest.
> Basements? What are those? ;-)
The things that explain the large number of raised ranches around
here. ;-) They also give some place for the flood to go.
> When I helped insulate two places in Connecticut,
> we didn't do the floor but rather insulated the cellar walls as
> well (adding joists in one house originally built in the 1870s).
> This had the added advantage of making the cellar somewhat less
> uncomfortable.
At my parents' house, the basement is also cooler year-round. Only
one of the cats ever figured that out.
>> My UPS log goes back to 01 Dec 2010, and it has 50 outages, but
>> none longer than 1s, and most of those occurring in groups.
>> Six of them occurred in one 15-second interval Monday. I've
>> never lived anywhere else that had these flickers occurring in
>> bunches like this.
>
> I can't say that I've seen much if any. Normally, the flickers
> here only occur during storms - when the wind is blowing the
> power lines around.
Same here too. I suppose I should ask my electric company what's
going on with those, as I never had those happen elsewhere in this
county with the same electric company.
> twice a year we go through the change pictures
> and wall hangings bit, just as we did in California.
Do you actually have at least twice as much artwork as the walls can
display? I expect to eventually have more enlargements than I can
display at any one time.
>> Photo-quality printouts on photo paper come out darker than
>> normal quality on plain paper, but I can't (yet) anticipate by
>> how much.
>
> How much of that is the consistency of the light level around
> the computer, and intensity settings of the monitor?
Those are consistent, or at least not making any difference. I
suspect it has something to do with the (Canon glossy) photo paper,
as the Staples matte photo paper consistently comes out basically
the same as the image on my screen. (Both with HP OEM ink, printer
set to "photo paper" and "hi-res photo quality.) I hadn't realized
that, so maybe I need to get a different brand of glossy photo paper
-- or is this a problem with glossy inkjet photo paper in general?
I got this batch back when I had a Canon i550, and don't recall a
problem with the intensity when I was using the Canon printer and
ink. I'm using the glossy for the more realistic images and the
matte for the more "enhanced" ones -- I should see whether the
difference will be noticeable once they're framed under glass.
> you mentioned taking a darkroom class - at least there, it was
> relatively easy to get "consistent" results because the main
> variable was the negative content, not the light level of the
> enlarger, etc.
Yes I did, B/W film. It almost always took me several attempts (and
sheets of photo paper) to figure out the right exposure, contrast
filter, and burning/dodging for enlargements. I think I used more
paper than anyone else in the class, because I was finicky about the
final image.
>> Another shot is nice but takes up the whole width of the 3:2
>> 35mm frame, so either I get legal-size photo paper and a mat
>> for 8x12 in an 11x14 frame, or I custom cut a mat for a 7" x
>> 10.5" image.
>
> You don't have 3:2 frames (and mats)?
I'll have to see what the art supply store has; the craft stores
didn't have any. In photo class we used 8x10 paper (with the edges
covered by the easel holding it) and 11x14 mats. Because of the
unusual size of the finished image, we ended up cutting the windows
in our mats ourselves. I'm sticking with 11x14 frames and mats with
8x10 windows for consistency. However, I pulled out one of the
extra mats I'd cut in class and, despite its odd window size, it was
very close to 3:2, so in GIMP I resized my image and will use that
mat for it. None of the other images really suffered when cut to
8x10 proportions.
> One thing I did back in the early 1980s was get the
> hardware (mainly router bits, a miter box, back saw, and frame
> clamps) so I can build "custom" sized frames.
I picked up some nice but odd-sized prints at a gallery, and my
strategy is just to cut a window mat that brings it to a standard
size. The art supply store will cut mat board down into any size
for free, but charges for custom window cutting. Fortunately DCC
has good mat cutters (the kind that clamp down like a clothes press)
and I don't think they'd mind much if I used them even if I'm not in
an art class.
> (We've a series of oil prints, water colors and
> charcoal prints from Japan, and I had to build frames for all of
> them because not one was even close to a "standard" size/format.
> The "silk" - more likely rayon or nylon - prints from SE Asia
> have the same problem.)
My parents have some odd-sized prints or fabric (and a Japanese
paper cut), but they've splurged on custom framing. I can't really
afford that, but at least I'm getting them framed. Decent
presentation really adds a lot. At the moment, the photo project is
second priority, as the web site stuff has a sort of time limit as
FTP access ends on August 21.
>> And there's always the question of how much GIMP "enhancement"
>> to apply, but that's really an artistic issue rather than a
>> technical one.
>
> True, but how much of the "corrections" (catering to the
> original exposure, the degradation of the original
> negative/print/slide, the transfer to digitized media, and the
> qualities of the paper and printer) could be defined as
> enhancement?
Oh, nearly all have had /some/ fixing up by GIMP, especially white
balance on older film and brightness/contrast, but for most of them
I've tried for something that looks realistic. On a few I've
intentionally gone way beyond that point, but then those ones aren't
meant to look realistic. It's art, not photojournalism.
> A friend at work has been trying to reprint
> (source both prints and original negatives and some slides) some
> older work. He showed off a photo of the Grand Canyon (taken
> from near Park Hq. on the South Rim) that he had spent literally
> weeks tweaking, trying to get the colors to match a print from a
> book.
Why? Is he assuming the colors in the book are accurate, or somehow
better?
[Southwest airlines]
>> Well, they flew me to where I wanted to go, but they didn't
>> start where I wanted to start. I had to drive two hours to
>> BDL
>
> How much of that is because you're in a (relatively) residential
> part of the state and there aren't that many "direct" routes to
> BDL?
I suppose Southwest figured it had the northeast adequately covered
with BDL and ALB. Both were about a two-hour drive for me, but BDL
was much more straightforward. Before they added those, their
nearest terminal to me was BWI, about 250 miles away, which I had to
drive to once.
> Who is flying out of Stewart now?
I haven't checked, but I heard JetBlue is now flying from there to
FLL, so I'd guess there are also other airlines with commercial
flights as well. In 2004, I went from SWF to SAN and back on
American with only a change of plane in ORD.
>> and spent over $100 on long-term parking there.
>
> How many days was that?
Three weeks. The attendant said that was one of the longest stays
there. By using BDL (or ALB), I was able to use a Southwest "free
round trip" coupon the friend I was visiting had earned, so the
$100+ plus mileage was my only transportation cost and I figured it
was worth it.
> I used to cheat, and take the "airport
> limo" (which was actually a bus service) if I was going to be
> gone more than several days.
They used to have that from here to LGA and JFK, and I did the same
thing. It was a minor hardship when that ended.
>> Ah, the Aerodrome: http://www.oldrhinebeck.org/
>
> I've been there several times - the first time in the early
> 1960s when the "show" was only once a month. Other than the
> showmanship itself, the main attraction to me was the aircraft
> themselves. Cole Palen was an absolute genius about getting old
> hardware (and very realistic replicas that he made) running.
That would explain its popularity among aircraft buffs, as a sort of
"working museum", in addition to the entertainment value for all.
I'm not a "plane buff", but I can appreciate the extra effort put
into authenticity. I keep forgetting that just because it's near me
doesn't mean there's something comparable near everyone else's home.
Adam
Moe Trin
<j1nm2j$5lr$1...@dont-email.me>, Adam wrote:
>Moe Trin wrote:
>> Libraries shouldn't be being altered, but that's the basic
>> concept.
>I should look at how I handled memory management in my OS class
>project. IIRC, memory management doesn't know and doesn't care
>whether a page is a library or executable code or data.
Doesn't care - true, but they would be separate, and libraries and
executables _should_ be relatively static - only being written to
memory when the app is loaded. Some of it could be swapped out and
then restored, but in that case it had better NOT be changing.
>And of course a library could be altered if the user's overwriting
>it with a newer version of that library. If I'm wrong on this, well,
>I figure the kernel memory management code was written by someone who
>knew how to do it right.
I can hear some one saying "do you feel lucky?". You can update a
library or application, and _probably_ get away with it, because the
thing you update is the disk rather than the memory image. This used
to be the argument against systems having huge uptimes - because they
came at the expense of not upgrading things, like a kernel or the
basic libraries.
>> About mid-1994, we were informed that the web was to be "the"
>> thing, and we should be setting up web pages on an internal
>> server at each facility. [...] other than giving a useful
>> email address and hell-desk numbers to reach network support
>> people, the page wasn't that helpful.
>I don't even remember being aware of the web until later in the '90s.
The web was different because the formal specifications for the
protocol weren't adopted until long after it was actually in use on
the 'net. I actually remember using lynx (downloaded from UKansas) in
1993, NCSA Mosaic in 1994, but the RFCs weren't released until 1995
and later. But for most people, this didn't matter because neither
Apple or Microsoft offered IP based capabilities at the time.
>Generally, these days corporate web pages are more entertaining, I
>suppose because nowadays they're often the first source of information
>about the company and its products and services.
These were internal pages - originally intended to get us up to speed
on the protocol. I don't even remember what server application was
used (something from CERN), but for us "authors" it was mainly just a
text file created on some text editor.
[google stats]
>I see comp.os.linux.misc dived in 2009 and never recovered.
google says
Jan Feb Mar Apr May Jun Jul Aug Sep Oct Nov Dec
2009 1350 786 991 937 908 1087 1066 1133 1038 1026 53 80
2010 394 833 294 82 54 110 407 675 781 768 629 433
2011 469 367 452 426 308 230
my records show
2009 1272 809 1025 1070 1053 1127 1021 1345 1236 1014 578 595
2010 663 901 720 547 357 742 430 441 600 657 569 408
2011 413 326 432 390 316 203
so yes, something happened after October 2009, but no where NEAR as
bad as they show. Looking further at the logs, I see the kill ratio
dropped somewhat, but in round figures 50% went down to 35%, so it's
not as if some sewer got shut off. Google's data looks suspect.
>> Article numbers 740770 to 740824 had been assigned since the last
>> time I downloaded - yet only 24 of those 55 articles were
>> actually available [...] They likely got kicked off the server
>> by cleanfeed or similar. (This shows up as missing article
>> sequence numbers - look at the "Xref:" header).
>I suppose that would explain why sometimes my newsreader briefly
>reports, say, 30 unread posts, then it suddenly reports 12 and shows
>12 unread posts in the group.
If you understood how the protocol works, this makes sense. Your
news reader keeps track of those article numbers, and when it queries
the server it is told the highest article number in the group, and
it does the math to say - "30 available". Then it asks the server for
each article number (to get the headers) and at that time, it is told
that "these article numbers" aren't valid/available (and if it does
any filtering/kill-filing, that is done) and the "12 unread" is the
result.
>(I don't actually check the numbers in the Xref header.)
They're only valid to your news reader and that news server.
>> Some of the use may be class/school related - does DCC offer at
>> least limited (class related) servers?
>Well, I took Web Design there, and if any course would offer the use
>of web servers it would be that one -- but no, each of us was
>required to get one ourselves, at our own expense. (Admittedly not
>much, since we'd only need it for four months.)
Did the instructor (or classmates) give suggestions to those who did
not have access to a web server?
>mysite.verizon.net first sends a 301, with the new address exactly
>the same as the one I'd requested. When wget tries the "new"
>address, mysite.verizon.net sends a 403.
That's strange - and it works if this isn't recursion. Sounds like
a screwed up server configuration to me, as the only other thing I
can think of is a character set error/difference... but
>While I can still use FTP, I can see there are also various files
>under mysite.verizon.net/myusername/ put there by Site Builder,
>including a robots.txt that effectively does nothing, just
>"User-Agent: *", and no way to change that (or add .htaccess) once
>FTP is gone.
man wget
While doing that, Wget respects the Robot Exclusion
Standard (/robots.txt).
Might that be the problem?
>> Basements? What are those? ;-)
>The things that explain the large number of raised ranches around
>here. ;-) They also give some place for the flood to go.
Actually, three of the houses in my sub-division (including my
next-door neighbor) have them, but they're pretty rare. A problem is
a layer of caliche (calcium carbonate) that starts about a foot or so
below the surface. You may be more familiar with the term "hardpan".
It causes real drainage problems.
>> Normally, the flickers here only occur during storms - when the
>> wind is blowing the power lines around.
>Same here too. I suppose I should ask my electric company what's
>going on with those, as I never had those happen elsewhere in this
>county with the same electric company.
It shouldn't happen, but it's a cost trade-off. Keeping the trees
away from power lines (and constructing them such that line sway is
minimized) is an expense that can be avoided/ignored except when it
causes a fire or other damage.
>> twice a year we go through the change pictures and wall hangings
>> bit, just as we did in California.
>Do you actually have at least twice as much artwork as the walls can
>display?
Easily - my mother-in-law was very much into the arts/crafts bit and
that alone gives us enough to cover twice the walls. Then I had a
number of paintings and crap that I've collected over the years.
>I expect to eventually have more enlargements than I can display at
>any one time.
I am close to that state as well.
>Those are consistent, or at least not making any difference. I
>suspect it has something to do with the (Canon glossy) photo paper,
>as the Staples matte photo paper consistently comes out basically
>the same as the image on my screen.
That sounds a lot like "luck" - as trying to display the same image
on two different systems here results in a slight, but noticeable
difference. I think I also see a difference between daylight and
artificial lighting in the room.
>I hadn't realized that, so maybe I need to get a different brand of
>glossy photo paper -- or is this a problem with glossy inkjet photo
>paper in general?
news://comp.periphs.printers
>> you mentioned taking a darkroom class - at least there, it was
>> relatively easy to get "consistent" results because the main
>> variable was the negative content, not the light level of the
>> enlarger, etc.
>Yes I did, B/W film. It almost always took me several attempts (and
>sheets of photo paper) to figure out the right exposure, contrast
>filter, and burning/dodging for enlargements. I think I used more
>paper than anyone else in the class, because I was finicky about the
>final image.
It's an acquired skill obviously, but something that was beaten into
me lo those _many_ decades ago at the Base Hobby shop, and reinforced
by number two brother-in-law who had a small but useful darkroom in
the cellar of his house. He (and my remaining sister) did professional
photo work.
>> You don't have 3:2 frames (and mats)?
>I'll have to see what the art supply store has; the craft stores
>didn't have any. In photo class we used 8x10 paper (with the edges
>covered by the easel holding it) and 11x14 mats. Because of the
>unusual size of the finished image, we ended up cutting the windows
>in our mats ourselves. I'm sticking with 11x14 frames and mats with
>8x10 windows for consistency.
I had a quick look, and the "8x12" frames I have lack any indication
of where I got them - but most have a 7.5x11.5 to 8.5x12.5 inch
opening. Some of them I recognize as home-made.
>I picked up some nice but odd-sized prints at a gallery, and my
>strategy is just to cut a window mat that brings it to a standard
>size.
That will work, and is cheaper than having custom frames made. On
the other hand, if you have the tools, doing it yourself can be
pretty cheap and perhaps more satisfying.
>> (We've a series of oil prints, water colors and charcoal prints
>> from Japan, and I had to build frames for all of them because not
>> one was even close to a "standard" size/format.
>My parents have some odd-sized prints or fabric (and a Japanese
>paper cut), but they've splurged on custom framing.
The Japanese stuff we have was mostly purchased there in the late
1940s (father-in-law was Army, and the family lived there for three
years), and a lesser amount of things purchased when I was working
there in the early-mid 1960s. The older stuff was properly framed
there, but some had to be reframed as the original frames didn't fit
the decor (regrettably, those original frames are long gone).
>I can't really afford that, but at least I'm getting them framed.
>Decent presentation really adds a lot.
A lot depends on how much room you have, and how much you value your
time, but wood molding suitable (pre-shaped but not pre-cut) for
framing is under $2/foot, and the glass is pretty cheap. Practice
making cuts using cheap pine lath and a small miter box.
[GIMP "enhancement"]
>Oh, nearly all have had /some/ fixing up by GIMP, especially white
>balance on older film and brightness/contrast, but for most of them
>I've tried for something that looks realistic. On a few I've
>intentionally gone way beyond that point, but then those ones aren't
>meant to look realistic. It's art, not photojournalism.
Art is supposed to imitate life - photojournalism can cover a lot of
ground from the stuff printed in newspapers (usually meant to be "good
enough") to some of the real art printed in national magazines like
National Geographic.
>> He showed off a photo of the Grand Canyon (taken from near Park Hq.
>> on the South Rim) that he had spent literally weeks tweaking,
>> trying to get the colors to match a print from a book.
>Why? Is he assuming the colors in the book are accurate, or somehow
>better?
Certainly the book is spectacular but is it real or is it Memorex?
I don't know - the colors he wound up with do appear to match what
(at least my) memory suggests was there.
[Southwest airlines]
>> How much of that is because you're in a (relatively) residential
>> part of the state and there aren't that many "direct" routes to
>> BDL?
>I suppose Southwest figured it had the northeast adequately covered
>with BDL and ALB. Both were about a two-hour drive for me, but BDL
>was much more straightforward. Before they added those, their
>nearest terminal to me was BWI, about 250 miles away, which I had to
>drive to once.
Well, US-44 isn't that direct a route, even if you know the "short cut"
through Granby but I would have thought Albany was faster roads.
>> Who is flying out of Stewart now?
>I haven't checked, but I heard JetBlue is now flying from there to
>FLL, so I'd guess there are also other airlines with commercial
>flights as well. In 2004, I went from SWF to SAN and back on
>American with only a change of plane in ORD.
Last I looked, you had Delta, JetBlue and UselessAir. At one time,
you also had AirTran which is now merging into Southwest.
>>> and spent over $100 on long-term parking there.
>> How many days was that?
>Three weeks. The attendant said that was one of the longest stays
>there. By using BDL (or ALB), I was able to use a Southwest "free
>round trip" coupon the friend I was visiting had earned, so the
>$100+ plus mileage was my only transportation cost and I figured it
>was worth it.
I don't think I've ever spent more than US$40 for parking, as by that
amount it's getting cheaper to find other transportation to/from the
airport.
>> I used to cheat, and take the "airport limo" (which was actually a
>> bus service) if I was going to be gone more than several days.
>They used to have that from here to LGA and JFK, and I did the same
>thing. It was a minor hardship when that ended.
When I was officially living back there, Connecticut Limo had service
from "downtown" to LGA/JFK/EWR, and BDL. There was limited air service
from OXC (the local airport), BDR (Bridgeport) and HVN (New Haven),
and sometimes it was actually cheaper to fly to JFK than take the limo.
[old Rhinebeck]
>> the main attraction to me was the aircraft themselves. Cole Palen
>> was an absolute genius about getting old hardware (and very
>> realistic replicas that he made) running.
>That would explain its popularity among aircraft buffs, as a sort of
>"working museum", in addition to the entertainment value for all.
Precisely - another place I visited was "Silver Hill, MD" - where the
NASM was storing aircraft as well as doing the restoration work. The
restoration has recently been moved to the Udvar-Hazy facility at
Dulles, and is a main attraction all by itself.
>I'm not a "plane buff", but I can appreciate the extra effort put
>into authenticity.
The NASM sells books about some of the restoration work they have done.
http://www.oldrhinebeck.org had a piece about the fun Cole Palen had
trying to get the aircraft he bought in ~1951 at Roosevelt Field:
Typical of the trials and tribulations experienced was the story
that involved towing the fuselage from the Jenny behind Cole's
equally tired old car. When the combination reached the Whitestone
Bridge the tires on the Jenny disintegrated. What Cole thought were
well-inflated tires actually turned out to be solid wooden wheels
with tire carcasses around them! Later, on reaching the suburb of
Yonkers more difficulties were encountered when the wheels became
jammed in active trolley tracks!
When the NASM was restoring their Me-262 in 1979, they soaked the tires
for several days in "Armor-All" (a patent automotive cleaning product)
which softened them enough to get them off (and back on afterwards)
without destroying them. The tires may not be airworthy, but they are
capable of supporting the parked aircraft.
>I keep forgetting that just because it's near me doesn't mean there's
>something comparable near everyone else's home.
Actually, there are very VERY few comparables in the world - NASM of
course, the US military museums at Wright Patterson and Pensacola, the
British facilities at Duxford/Old Warden, the Russian facility at
Molino and maybe the several of the other lesser known museums (such as
the Connecticut Air Museum at BDL or Planes Of Fame in Chino, CA_US).
A big difference is that nearly all museums don't FLY the aircraft
(except for the CAF, the Shuttleworth and maybe Planes Of Fame).
Old guy
Adam
> in the Usenet newsgroup alt.os.linux.mandriva, Adam wrote:
[google stats]
>> I see comp.os.linux.misc dived in 2009 and never recovered.
[...]
> so yes, something happened after October 2009, but no where NEAR as
> bad as they show. Looking further at the logs, I see the kill ratio
> dropped somewhat, but in round figures 50% went down to 35%, so it's
> not as if some sewer got shut off. Google's data looks suspect.
What does "kill ratio" mean here? Posts cancelled, or crossposted
(already received in another NG), or killed by the server's spam
filter, or something else?
> Your
> news reader keeps track of those article numbers, and when it queries
> the server it is told the highest article number in the group, and
> it does the math to say - "30 available".
Seamonkey got confused (and probably Thunderbird would too) when the
article numbers got reset. (The reset would affect anyone who gets
this group from my news server, right? But not necessarily any
other groups.) It suddenly told me that there weren't, and had
never been, any posts in this group. Fortunately I figured it out,
reset the high message number, and got all the "new" (all) posts. I
gather some news readers handle the situation more gracefully, but
anyway it's not one that comes up often.
[DCC Web Design course last year]
> Did the instructor (or classmates) give suggestions to those who did
> not have access to a web server?
From what I can remember without digging out my class notes, there
were recommendations for some inexpensive web hosting services,
probably GoDaddy and similar. IOW it was at our own expense, but
then we only needed it for four months. I think most of the
students already had an account somewhere and a simple web page on
it. Many already had their own domain names too, in preparation for
their careers as freelance commercial artists, possibly including
web design. I was the only "amateur" in the course.
>> mysite.verizon.net first sends a 301, with the new address exactly
>> the same as the one I'd requested. When wget tries the "new"
>> address, mysite.verizon.net sends a 403.
>
> That's strange - and it works if this isn't recursion. Sounds like
> a screwed up server configuration to me
I deleted robots.txt that Site Builder had added from my root
directory there, and also the empty .htaccess I'd added for no good
reason. The robots.txt was just "User-Agent: *" so I don't
understand how it would have blocked anything. I had to use FTP to
delete those.
Now when I try "wget -r emptydirectory" I still get the same error
messages, but if I start in a directory higher up that has files,
"wget -r" works as expected. After index.html it tries
unsuccessfully to get robots.txt, but then just continues following
the links in index.html and getting the files that are in
http://mysite.verizon.net . It doesn't get the files on other hosts
(e.g. some of the images my web pages display) but you mentioned
that was a known problem or feature.
Anyway I went ahead and implemented the kludge I'd come up with, so
now anyone who goes to my previous home page address gets an ugly
"redirecting..." screen I'd flung together with Site Builder, then
it redirects to "myindex.html" in a subdirectory which is my "real"
homepage, still called "Under Construction". That, and everything
under that, is entirely HTML and CSS that I'd written (or adapted or
pasted), effectively working around Site Builder.
I added the HTML redirection code to the Site Builder page by using
the "add HTML" option. Of course that put it into the <body>, not
the <head>, and someone mentioned that not all browsers follow
redirection. I suppose that explains why so many sites have "click
HERE if you're not automatically redirected" and I ought to add that
to the page too. I tried Firefox, Chrome, and Opera under Linux,
and IE8 and Safari in a WinXP VM, and they all redirected. The only
one that didn't was Lynx, but that showed the redirect code and made
it easy to follow, if the user wanted. Would you know what other
browsers /don't/ automatically follow REFRESH commands in the <body>
of the HTML?
So my web page has been recreated, and is, sort of, effectively at
the same URL. (Come to think of it, though, I think this
reorganization means that the results of any SEO are now worthless,
as the link would be different.) I think my next step ought to be
to start using Site Builder on my other subaccounts, so it will
create (among other things) a robots.txt file in each that I can
then delete using FTP. It looks like robots.txt only gets created
the first time Site Builder is used, and doesn't get recreated if
deleted. It also means that my search for a "real" web host can be
put off until either I need one, or Verizon changes something again.
>>> Normally, the flickers here only occur during storms - when the
>>> wind is blowing the power lines around.
>
>> Same here too. I suppose I should ask my electric company what's
>> going on with those, as I never had those happen elsewhere in this
>> county with the same electric company.
That batch of brief outages last week must have all been well under
a second, because the digital clock on my stove didn't reset, and
that one has no battery backup.
>> I
>> suspect it has something to do with the (Canon glossy) photo paper,
>> as the Staples matte photo paper consistently comes out basically
>> the same as the image on my screen.
[...]
>> I hadn't realized that, so maybe I need to get a different brand of
>> glossy photo paper -- or is this a problem with glossy inkjet photo
>> paper in general?
>
> news://comp.periphs.printers
Thanks for the reminder! You may have noticed my question there,
and the two replies recommending various HP photo paper. I'll also
try to get a sheet of whatever photo paper my parents have on hand.
I think it's been a while since I had an OS-independent question.
For the "home photo gallery" project, I realized I hadn't looked at
any of my color prints, which are 1994-on, including all my trips to
California. That can wait, though, as I have more than enough
potential prints from my slides already. I mostly need to get some
better glossy inkjet photo paper. The "family collage" project took
a step forward with my purchase of a frame and mat for it -- 27" x
40", suitable for movie posters without the precut mat, or 41 photos
with it.
>>> You don't have 3:2 frames (and mats)?
>
>> I'll have to see what the art supply store has; the craft stores
>> didn't have any.
The art supply store (there's really only one decent one in Po'k)
didn't have any 3:2 frames or mats either. My image size is limited
by the 8.5"x11" photo paper, unless somebody makes it in legal size.
>> at least I'm getting them framed.
>
> A lot depends on how much room you have, and how much you value your
> time, but wood molding suitable (pre-shaped but not pre-cut) for
> framing is under $2/foot, and the glass is pretty cheap. Practice
> making cuts using cheap pine lath and a small miter box.
I'm sure I could, but my taste for photo frames is metal, black or
chrome. (I've discovered I like modern design, straight lines and
square corners, not rococo.)
[Southwest airlines]
>> I suppose Southwest figured it had the northeast adequately covered
>> with BDL and ALB. Both were about a two-hour drive for me, but BDL
>> was much more straightforward.
>
> Well, US-44 isn't that direct a route, even if you know the "short cut"
> through Granby but I would have thought Albany was faster roads.
Maybe getting to Albany would be faster, but I gather that after
that point it's numerous local roads to the airport. From Po'k, it
was NY 55 E, Taconic State Parkway S, I-84 E into Hartford, then
I-91 N, and exit 40 leads directly into to the airport. Except for
NY 55, it's all highways.
>>> Who is flying out of Stewart now?
[...]
> Last I looked, you had Delta, JetBlue and UselessAir. At one time,
> you also had AirTran which is now merging into Southwest.
I haven't checked lately, because I haven't wanted to fly to anywhere.
> I don't think I've ever spent more than US$40 for parking, as by that
> amount it's getting cheaper to find other transportation to/from the
> airport.
I doubt there's anything direct from Poughkeepsie to Hartford. My
next trip was out of Stewart, so my parents could bring me there and
back, cutting parking costs down to only a few hours.
[old Rhinebeck]
> http://www.oldrhinebeck.org had a piece about the fun Cole Palen had
> trying to get the aircraft he bought in ~1951 at Roosevelt Field:
He sounds like one of those rare people whose dream managed to also
be financially viable. I think it's the shows that do it, even if
some planes are only replicas. There's not enough people here just
to support a museum. I'll have to remember the Aerodrome the next
time somebody asks what there is to do around here.
>> I keep forgetting that just because it's near me doesn't mean there's
>> something comparable near everyone else's home.
>
> Actually, there are very VERY few comparables in the world
[...]
> A big difference is that nearly all museums don't FLY the aircraft
> (except for the CAF, the Shuttleworth and maybe Planes Of Fame).
I never thought about it, but that's what probably what attracts
most of the visitors, even the ones who can't tell one plane from
another.
Adam
Moe Trin
<j1uuvh$tl9$1...@dont-email.me>, Adam wrote:
>Moe Trin wrote:
[google stats]
>> Looking further at the logs, I see the kill ratio dropped somewhat,
>> but in round figures 50% went down to 35%, so it's not as if some
>> sewer got shut off.
>What does "kill ratio" mean here?
comp.os.linux.misc: Retrieving articles 740866-740877.
1 duplicates removed leaving 4/5.
comp.os.linux.misc: 4 articles available.
comp.os.linux.misc: 4/4 (3 killed)
3 out of 4 makes 75%. The dup appears to be a.o.l.ubuntu
>> Your news reader keeps track of those article numbers, and when it
>> queries the server it is told the highest article number in the
>> group, and it does the math to say - "30 available".
>Seamonkey got confused (and probably Thunderbird would too) when the
>article numbers got reset.
Contravention of RFC2980 Section 4.3 ("However, the current practice
is simple: article numbers are monotonically increasing") though there
are mechanisms to handle a reset.
>(The reset would affect anyone who gets this group from my news
>server, right? But not necessarily any other groups.)
Correct. The article number is unique to "this" news group on "this"
server only. RFC3977 section 6.0 _requires_ the article number to be
in the range "1" to "2147483647" (32 bit positive numbers). RFC5536
section 3.2.14 notes only that it's a decimal number, and is
"implementation-specific" (which is a nice way of ducking the issue).
>It suddenly told me that there weren't, and had never been, any posts
>in this group. Fortunately I figured it out, reset the high message
>number, and got all the "new" (all) posts. I gather some news readers
>handle the situation more gracefully, but anyway it's not one that
>comes up often.
A number of news readers I've seen/used don't handle it well, but the
current practice noted above infers that "it shouldn't happen". Of the
80 groups I try to follow, none have article numbers over 3/4 million,
and even that group (c.o.l.m, which was fairly active) has been around
for about 19 years. LOTS of room before a roll-over.
[DCC Web Design course last year]
>> Did the instructor (or classmates) give suggestions to those who did
>> not have access to a web server?
> From what I can remember without digging out my class notes, there
>were recommendations for some inexpensive web hosting services,
>probably GoDaddy and similar. IOW it was at our own expense, but
>then we only needed it for four months.
A long time ago, I took a class that (among other things) had us
creating a FTP server (I said it was a long time ago). Most of the
students didn't have access to such hardware, and the school gave
the class access on an internal server (which was _readable_ from
outside - user "ftp" I believe - but would only accept writable
access from one subnet within the school).
>I deleted robots.txt that Site Builder had added from my root
>directory there, and also the empty .htaccess I'd added for no good
>reason. The robots.txt was just "User-Agent: *" so I don't
>understand how it would have blocked anything.
http://www.robotstxt.org/orig.html says it wants a "User-Agent:" and
a "Disallow:" line. Not exactly sure what happens if the "Disallow:"
line is missing.
[power flickers]
>That batch of brief outages last week must have all been well under
>a second, because the digital clock on my stove didn't reset, and
>that one has no battery backup.
Perhaps a large ripple filter cap in the "power supply". Without
you being aware, the display could have blanked, but the cycles
counter that is the clock didn't reset.
>For the "home photo gallery" project, I realized I hadn't looked at
>any of my color prints, which are 1994-on, including all my trips to
>California. That can wait, though, as I have more than enough
>potential prints from my slides already.
What were they shot on? (Color stability?) I found a box full of
35 mm B/W negatives. Minor problem - nothing handy to properly view
them. I've been using a home-made light box (little more than a wood
frame supporting a piece of window glass covered with two sheets of
white paper - the light is a "100 W" CFL) to at least try to see what
they might be. Haven't found anything worth printing yet.
>The "family collage" project took a step forward with my purchase of
>a frame and mat for it -- 27" x 40", suitable for movie posters
>without the precut mat, or 41 photos with it.
I think I've got two paintings in frames that large - one is a cat
in silhouette, the other is a landscape.
>The art supply store (there's really only one decent one in Po'k)
>didn't have any 3:2 frames or mats either.
There aren't that many stores here either.
>My image size is limited by the 8.5"x11" photo paper, unless somebody
>makes it in legal size.
I'm sure it's made that large (or larger) - the problem is finding
someone who _sells_ it at something approximating a reasonable price.
>> A lot depends on how much room you have, and how much you value
>> your time, but wood molding suitable (pre-shaped but not pre-cut)
>> for framing is under $2/foot, and the glass is pretty cheap.
>I'm sure I could, but my taste for photo frames is metal, black or
>chrome.
So use a hack-saw in the miter box ;-)
["get me to the airport on time"]
>> I would have thought Albany was faster roads.
>Maybe getting to Albany would be faster, but I gather that after
>that point it's numerous local roads to the airport.
??? US-9 North to I-90 West to I-87 North to NY-155 (exit 4)
>From Po'k, it was NY 55 E, Taconic State Parkway S, I-84 E into
>Hartford, then I-91 N, and exit 40 leads directly into to the
>airport. Except for NY 55, it's all highways.
ITYM divided highways - You could try US-44 to US-202 to CT-20 (in
Granby) which brings you into the airport on the same road as exit
40 from I-91. It's all two or three lane (undivided) road, but it
moves quite well. We often use I-84 to Plainville, West onto CT-10,
which joins 44/202 in Avon.
>> I don't think I've ever spent more than US$40 for parking, as by
>> that amount it's getting cheaper to find other transportation
>> to/from the airport.
>I doubt there's anything direct from Poughkeepsie to Hartford.
I'm sure you're correct - a commuter air carrier named Command Air
used to fly Poughkeepsie-Kennedy, just as Pilgrim Airlines used to
fly from several cities in Connecticut to Kennedy and Philadelphia.
Both a likely long gone.
[old Rhinebeck]
>He sounds like one of those rare people whose dream managed to also
>be financially viable.
If you read his bio... he has a wiki page, but try
http://www.abouttown.us/dutchess/articles/spring11/colepalen.shtml
it was his wife Rita who managed to make it work.
>I think it's the shows that do it, even if some planes are only replicas.
Oh, absolutely. About 4-5 months ago, "FiFi" was visiting Deer Valley
airport (DVT, about 15 miles N of Phoenix Sky Harbor) and even though
it was during a weekday, she (the _only_ remaining flyable B-29 of
the 3960 built) was drawing enormous crowds. The sound and fury of
four 3350 inch 18 cylinder engines is positively AWESOME. We're
lucky, because we also have "Sentimental Journey" (B-17G - one of
under a dozen left in the world) based at Falcon Field in Mesa (FFZ,
about 14 miles E of PHX) along with "Maid in the Shade" (a B-25J).
There are also a number of WW2 fighters in the area, and it's not at
all uncommon to see a flight of two or four flying around the area at
least once or twice a month.
>There's not enough people here just to support a museum. I'll have
>to remember the Aerodrome the next time somebody asks what there is
>to do around here.
Look at Washington - there aren't enough people there who visit the
dozen or so museums on the Mall. But in spite of multiple begging
letters I get yearly, they aren't going out of business any time soon.
It's the tourists that make it pay (you... no, _I_ don't want to know
how much I spent at the NMAH and NASM the last time I visited).
>> A big difference is that nearly all museums don't FLY the aircraft
>> (except for the CAF, the Shuttleworth and maybe Planes Of Fame).
>I never thought about it, but that's what probably what attracts
>most of the visitors, even the ones who can't tell one plane from
>another.
"FiFi" is based at the CAF headquarters in Midland, Texas. She carries
5600 gallons of (US$6.50/gallon) gasoline. Heck, she also carries 340
gallons of engine oil (which having four Wright Duplex Cyclone engines
means she throws/leaks in copious quantities). I suspect you realize
she is extremely expensive to fly. They charge US$5 to get onto the
ramp with her, and another $5 if you want to climb inside (and if you
do, you'll discover the B-29 is /tiny/ inside - 3 abreast would be a
tight fit). The dinky little B-17 is burning 10 gallons of fuel PER
MINUTE on takeoff, about 7 gallons a minute in climb, and about 3 to 4
gallons a minute in cruise. I think Arizona Wing of the CAF charges...
http://www.azcaf.org/pages/rides.html a bit more than Southwest ;-)
http://www.maam.org/wwii/ww2_rides_b29.htm and FiFi charges a LOT more.
Old guy
Adam
> in the Usenet newsgroup alt.os.linux.mandriva, Adam wrote:
>> What does "kill ratio" mean here?
>
> comp.os.linux.misc: Retrieving articles 740866-740877.
> 1 duplicates removed leaving 4/5.
> comp.os.linux.misc: 4 articles available.
> comp.os.linux.misc: 4/4 (3 killed)
>
> 3 out of 4 makes 75%. The dup appears to be a.o.l.ubuntu
What happened to the other seven out of the twelve articles?
[when the newsgroup article numbers got reset]
>> It suddenly told me that there weren't, and had never been, any posts
>> in this group. Fortunately I figured it out, reset the high message
>> number, and got all the "new" (all) posts. I gather some news readers
>> handle the situation more gracefully, but anyway it's not one that
>> comes up often.
>
> A number of news readers I've seen/used don't handle it well, but the
> current practice noted above infers that "it shouldn't happen".
But then some newsreaders have code explicitly written to handle it
when it does happen, meaning they're expecting it.
[Verizon Personal Web Space, now without FTP!]
>> I deleted robots.txt that Site Builder had added from my root
>> directory there, and also the empty .htaccess I'd added for no good
>> reason. The robots.txt was just "User-Agent: *" so I don't
>> understand how it would have blocked anything.
>
> http://www.robotstxt.org/orig.html says it wants a "User-Agent:" and
> a "Disallow:" line. Not exactly sure what happens if the "Disallow:"
> line is missing.
"Implementation-dependent," I suppose. ;-) "wget -r" works better
there without their robots.txt.
I also used the Verizon Site Builder to create "filler" web pages
for my subaccounts, just so I could delete robots.txt from those
while I still had FTP. It doesn't seem to recreate it. In
alt.online-service.verizon, another user reported that at least two
features of their Site Builder don't work under Firefox, but work
under IE. <grumble> Fortunately I think I'm done with the one
simple page I had to create with Site Builder, but if necessary I
can use IE in a WinXP VM. As I mentioned, my "official" home page
(the one I had to use Site Builder for) just redirects the user to
my previous home page in a data directory. If I'd spent any time on
SEO for it, I'd be very upset at the forced change of address.
Anyway my "home page" is done for the moment. It looks boring and
only really has two things on it, but both are original: my
"biography" and netzero-juno.txt. IMHO that makes it more useful
than a page with lots of flashy stuff but no real content and/or a
blog by someone who really has nothing worth saying.
[power flickers]
>> That batch of brief outages last week must have all been well under
>> a second, because the digital clock on my stove didn't reset, and
>> that one has no battery backup.
>
> Perhaps a large ripple filter cap in the "power supply". Without
> you being aware, the display could have blanked, but the cycles
> counter that is the clock didn't reset.
Certainly. When the power's flickering like that, I have better
things to do than to watch the clock on the stove. The actual time
doesn't matter there anyway, as there's no "timed bake" or anything
that depends on the current time, just a "countdown timer" that only
deals with relative time.
>> For the "home photo gallery" project, I realized I hadn't looked at
>> any of my color prints, which are 1994-on, including all my trips to
>> California. That can wait, though, as I have more than enough
>> potential prints from my slides already.
>
> What were they shot on? (Color stability?)
The color prints were all Kodacolor, and are recent enough so that I
don't have to worry about color change. The "family collage" will
be more of a problem in that respect -- some of the (small amount
of) Fujichrome I shot in the late '70s has already shifted a bit.
Fortunately for slides I shot mostly Kodachrome, which has held up
beautifully. Dad's slides, going back to the late '50s, could be a
problem, especially the Ektachromes. Anything before that is a b/w
print and is okay, except for storage damage, creases and such, and
slight fading of some WWI sepia-toned prints. I'm sure the
comprehensive textbook I got for that b/w photography class will
have something about that. It even has an entire chapter just on
"Presenting Your Photographs."
> I found a box full of
> 35 mm B/W negatives. Minor problem - nothing handy to properly view
> them. I've been using a home-made light box (little more than a wood
> frame supporting a piece of window glass covered with two sheets of
> white paper - the light is a "100 W" CFL) to at least try to see what
> they might be. Haven't found anything worth printing yet.
I remember from class that it was nearly impossible to judge the
artistic value from the negatives alone. That probably gets easier
with experience, though.
>> The "family collage" project took a step forward with my purchase of
>> a frame and mat for it -- 27" x 40", suitable for movie posters
>> without the precut mat, or 41 photos with it.
>
> I think I've got two paintings in frames that large - one is a cat
> in silhouette, the other is a landscape.
The largest framed painting I've seen was:
http://www.artic.edu/artaccess/AA_Impressionist/pages/IMP_7.shtml
Seurat's "A Sunday on La Grande Jatte" (1884-1886), which as the
page says is over 2m tall and 3m wide. It takes up an entire wall
there. (Its tag apologized for having to use a frame from the
1890s.) I'll always be grateful I took the elevator up to the
second floor instead of the stairs, because my first view of that
was from about 40' away, where it looks like solid colors. Only as
one gets closer does one realize there's almost no solid color at
all, just dots or points (what we would now call "pixels").
>> My image size is limited by the 8.5"x11" photo paper, unless somebody
>> makes it in legal size.
>
> I'm sure it's made that large (or larger) - the problem is finding
> someone who _sells_ it at something approximating a reasonable price.
That came up in comp.periphs.printers in 2007, and apparently nobody
was making 8"x12" (or 8.5"x14") inkjet photo paper. Even if there
was, I don't recall seeing any mats for it (presumably for an
11"x14" frame). Since you suggested it I've been looking through
comp.periphs.printers, and Teranews's retention of text NGs seems to
go back to 2005. I'm finding whole threads I don't remember starting!
["get me to the airport on time"]
>> From Po'k, it was NY 55 E, Taconic State Parkway S, I-84 E into
>> Hartford, then I-91 N, and exit 40 leads directly into to the
>> airport [BDL]. Except for NY 55, it's all highways.
>
> ITYM divided highways - You could try US-44 to US-202 to CT-20 (in
> Granby)
I was really thinking "no traffic lights." US 44 has lots, as it
intentionally goes through the center of every town along the way.
Possible exception of Millbrook, NY where they recently rerouted it
along what had been NY 44A, which had been created to bypass the
village which 44 had gone straight through.
>> I doubt there's anything direct from Poughkeepsie to Hartford.
>
> I'm sure you're correct - a commuter air carrier named Command Air
> used to fly Poughkeepsie-Kennedy
I was thinking of ground transportation, like the still-missed
"airport limo" to LGA & JFK. I remember Command at POK and I think
my father took it once, but for a long time (since shortly after
Stewart began passenger service) POK hasn't had any commercial
flights at all, except for emergency landings.
[old Rhinebeck (Aerodrome)]
>> I think it's the shows that do it, even if some planes are only replicas.
>
> Oh, absolutely. About 4-5 months ago, "FiFi" was visiting Deer Valley
> airport (DVT, about 15 miles N of Phoenix Sky Harbor) and even though
> it was during a weekday, she (the _only_ remaining flyable B-29 of
> the 3960 built) was drawing enormous crowds.
I thought almost every mission in WW II used a B-29. ;-)
>>> A big difference is that nearly all museums don't FLY the aircraft
>>> (except for the CAF, the Shuttleworth and maybe Planes Of Fame).
>
>> I never thought about it, but that's what probably what attracts
>> most of the visitors, even the ones who can't tell one plane from
>> another.
And the Aerodrome is good clean family entertainment. Kids love it,
even if they can't tell one old plane from another, because of the
"scripted" cartoonish aspect of it with heroes and villains and all
that.
Adam
Moe Trin
<j24ls0$caa$1...@dont-email.me>, Adam wrote:
>Moe Trin wrote:
>> comp.os.linux.misc: Retrieving articles 740866-740877.
>> 1 duplicates removed leaving 4/5.
>> comp.os.linux.misc: 4 articles available.
>> comp.os.linux.misc: 4/4 (3 killed)
>> 3 out of 4 makes 75%. The dup appears to be a.o.l.ubuntu
>What happened to the other seven out of the twelve articles?
Mentioned up-thread - probably dropped by cleanfeed (or equal) between
the time giganews received them from a peer and the time they made it
to the distribution servers.
[when the newsgroup article numbers got reset]
>> A number of news readers I've seen/used don't handle it well, but
>> the current practice noted above infers that "it shouldn't happen".
>But then some newsreaders have code explicitly written to handle it
>when it does happen, meaning they're expecting it.
The GROUP and LISTGROUP commands (RFC3977 sections 6.1.1 and 6.1.2)
provide a response that lists lowest and highest article numbers
available on the server. Some news reader authors throw in the extra
step of comparing the lowest available number with the (remembered)
highest seen. This can be used to reset, or at least warn the user
that something funky happened. Minor task, but a number don't
bother - perhaps because "it shouldn't happen". Others do, perhaps
because they can be configured to retrieve articles from multiple
servers - then you get into the question of what to do if both
servers have the group, but naturally enough with different article
numbers. "What now, Chief?"
[power flickers]
>> Perhaps a large ripple filter cap in the "power supply". Without
>> you being aware, the display could have blanked, but the cycles
>> counter that is the clock didn't reset.
>Certainly. When the power's flickering like that, I have better
>things to do than to watch the clock on the stove.
I'll agree there
>The actual time doesn't matter there anyway, as there's no "timed
>bake" or anything that depends on the current time, just a "countdown
>timer" that only deals with relative time.
The clock there, and on the nuke are essentially worthless, as they
only display hours:minutes (the nuke is overhead and the clock does
operate the overhead light in built-in range hood). This does me
little good, as I frequently do things where knowing the seconds
becomes useful (cook for 3 minutes = 180 seconds - a problem when only
minutes are displayed).
>The color prints were all Kodacolor, and are recent enough so that I
>don't have to worry about color change. The "family collage" will
>be more of a problem in that respect -- some of the (small amount
>of) Fujichrome I shot in the late '70s has already shifted a bit.
>Fortunately for slides I shot mostly Kodachrome, which has held up
>beautifully. Dad's slides, going back to the late '50s, could be a
>problem, especially the Ektachromes.
Working in Japan, I shot a fair amount of Fujichrome and a limited
amount of Fujicolor. When I moved to California and finally started
shooting film again, Photomat was most convenient, and their store
brand (as currently is Walgreens) was Fuji.
In c.p.p, you ask about the Krylon spray, and "Tal...@notreal.com"
mentions over-doing it and having the print run. I wonder about
spraying the _inside_ of the glass rather than the print itself.
>Anything before that is a b/w print and is okay, except for storage
>damage, creases and such, and slight fading of some WWI sepia-toned
>prints.
Most of my B/W work was developed at home or the base hobby shop, and
of consequence a fair amount of the retained negatives are in cassettes
of some kind or another (the hobby shop operator - and he really was
one - had a deal with someone, and he sold empty cassettes so we could
also buy his bulk Plus-X and Tri-X by the foot).
>I remember from class that it was nearly impossible to judge the
>artistic value from the negatives alone. That probably gets easier
>with experience, though.
Perhaps - here, I'm merely interested in what the stuff _is_ and if
I do find something that looks interesting, we can go from there.
>The largest framed painting I've seen was:
Framed - as opposed to a mural
>is over 2m tall and 3m wide. It takes up an entire wall there.
A different style, but wander down to the Met - the American wing.
"Washington Crossing the Delaware" by Emanuel Leutze is several times
larger. But then you may remember the close of the movie "1776". ;-)
I know that painting is also quite large (US Capitol lobby).
>Only as one gets closer does one realize there's almost no solid color
>at all, just dots or points (what we would now call "pixels").
I've heard of several artists who used that technique, but can't think
of specific ones at the moment. I'm thinking of one done by an
American artist in the late 1800s - it's a New England seashore.
>That came up in comp.periphs.printers in 2007, and apparently nobody
>was making 8"x12" (or 8.5"x14") inkjet photo paper. Even if there
>was, I don't recall seeing any mats for it (presumably for an
>11"x14" frame).
Lon's suggestion of a photo supply store?
>I'm finding whole threads I don't remember starting!
The _second_ thing that goes as you get older...
["get me to the airport on time"]
>> ITYM divided highways - You could try US-44 to US-202 to CT-20 (in
>> Granby)
>I was really thinking "no traffic lights." US 44 has lots, as it
>intentionally goes through the center of every town along the way.
Of course - usually I don't notice that much of a delay due to the
lights because there aren't that many, and half the time there is so
much conversation going on in the car, no one notices.
>>> I doubt there's anything direct from Poughkeepsie to Hartford.
>> I'm sure you're correct - a commuter air carrier named Command Air
>> used to fly Poughkeepsie-Kennedy
>I was thinking of ground transportation, like the still-missed
>"airport limo" to LGA & JFK.
Mis-understood - yeah, you're probably right there. My memory of
ground transportation at BDL, it's rather sparse and is pretty well
limited to nearby cities in CT and MA only. I don't believe they
even have a link as far as New Britain CT, much less where I'd be
going to the Waterbury area.
>I remember Command at POK and I think my father took it once, but for
>a long time (since shortly after Stewart began passenger service) POK
>hasn't had any commercial flights at all, except for emergency
>landings.
Given the smaller runway (5000 feet for 06/24) compared to Stewart
(11800 for 09/27 - heck the "short" runway 16/34 is 6000 feet), this
is understandable. 5000 feet would be "tight" for a respectable load
for most jets though MORE than enough for the smaller commuter birds.
[FiFi]
>> (the _only_ remaining flyable B-29 of the 3960 built)
>I thought almost every mission in WW II used a B-29. ;-)
Haven't seen "Twelve o'clock High"? Nah, Jimmy Stewart, Clark Gable,
(really) and others were flying the smaller stuff like B-17s (12,731
built, 15 still airworthy) and B-24s (19,258 built, 3 still airworthy).
In 1994/5, Darryl Greenameyer tried to recover an F-13 (photo-recon
conversion of the B-29) from a site about 250 miles North of Thule AB
(far Northwestern Greenland). That was "Kee Bird" (a mythical bird
found in the Arctic that is always walking around military facilities
wearing a parka, heavy boots and thick gloves, complaining about the
weather), and NOVA had a 1997 show about the attempt named "Frozen in
Time". The bird was destroyed by fire while getting ready to take off.
There is another B-29 named "Doc" (from "Snow White") that was being
restored to flight status in Kansas - the project ran out of coin.
>And the Aerodrome is good clean family entertainment. Kids love it,
>even if they can't tell one old plane from another, because of the
>"scripted" cartoonish aspect of it with heroes and villains and all
>that.
Lessee - that was "Sir Percy Goodfellow", "The Evil Black Baron",
"Pierre Loop de Loop" and "Trudy Truelove". Yeah, Cole knew what he
was doing. ;-) Airplanes have always been an attraction - hence
the "Observation Deck" that used to be available at most airports, and
the parking area near the end of the runway where you can watch the
planes take off and landing.
Old guy
Adam
> in the Usenet newsgroup alt.os.linux.mandriva, Adam wrote:
>>> comp.os.linux.misc: Retrieving articles 740866-740877.
>
>> What happened to the other seven out of the twelve articles?
>
> Mentioned up-thread - probably dropped by cleanfeed (or equal) between
> the time giganews received them from a peer and the time they made it
> to the distribution servers.
So it considered 7 out of 12 posts spam? Wouldn't that exact number
apply to only to news hosts using cleanfeed? I see various news
servers using different levels of filtering, if any.
[when the newsgroup article numbers got reset]
> Some news reader authors throw in the extra
> step of comparing the lowest available number with the (remembered)
> highest seen [...] perhaps
> because they can be configured to retrieve articles from multiple
> servers - then you get into the question of what to do if both
> servers have the group, but naturally enough with different article
> numbers.
Maybe that's why Pan occasionally reports a bunch of articles from
the past as "new". It can handle multiple servers for the same NG.
Thunderbird/Seamonkey handles each server separately.
> Working in Japan, I shot a fair amount of Fujichrome and a limited
> amount of Fujicolor. When I moved to California and finally started
> shooting film again, Photomat was most convenient, and their store
> brand (as currently is Walgreens) was Fuji.
How has the Fujichrome held up over the years? For the photos for
my "family collage," a few are prints over 90 years old.
Fortunately b/w (even if sepia) holds up well. Also, anything too
difficult to fix up can just be left out.
> In c.p.p, you ask about the Krylon spray, and "Tal...@notreal.com"
> mentions over-doing it and having the print run. I wonder about
> spraying the _inside_ of the glass rather than the print itself.
I bought a can yesterday, and I'll try that for one photo. I'll
probably only spray about two photos with it, maybe even just part
of each photo, and see what happens over time. For a few, I'm going
to print duplicates and keep those in a drawer, so I'll have a
reference in the future.
He/she also suggested getting my monitor calibrated, and creating
color profiles for each type of paper. Those sound like good ideas
(although not urgent), so I added them to my to-do list. Nobody had
ever mentioned color profiles so far, except GIMP/Photoshop when I
loaded in a file created by another program.
Yesterday I asked for one sheet of each type of photo paper that my
parents had, and came home with one Kodak Premium and one older HP
Premium Plus, both very glossy. I tried both, and the HP Premium
Plus print looked sufficiently close to what I saw on my monitor, so
tomorrow I'm going to stop at Staples and pick up up two packages of
it, 50 sheets each ("buy 1 get 1 free" sale this week). I'll
probably redo some of the ones I'd done on the Canon paper. The "my
photos" project may even be done by the end of the week, at least
until I decide to change the images.
>> The largest framed painting I've seen was:
>
> Framed - as opposed to a mural
Exactly. Also as opposed to paintings on cliffs, or John Banvard's
16000'-long panorama of nearly all of the Mississippi River which
/was/ transportable. It was displayed by rolling it from one
spindle to another while a narrator described the sights pictured.
>> That came up in comp.periphs.printers in 2007, and apparently nobody
>> was making 8"x12" (or 8.5"x14") inkjet photo paper. Even if there
>> was, I don't recall seeing any mats for it (presumably for an
>> 11"x14" frame).
>
> Lon's suggestion of a photo supply store?
Good idea. I'd need 8.5"x14" because my current inkjet can't do
borderless, but I searched online (both by store and by size) and
found two papers that might be suitable:
http://www.graytex.com/inkjet-photo-papers.htm
http://www.professionallabel.com/32lb-Photo-Quality-Gloss-Inkjet-Paper-85-x-14-100-Sheets-PLS8504_p_343.html
or the other alternative would be cutting 11"x14" photo paper (much
easier to find) down to 8.5"x14". I also see that mats to display
an 8x12 image in an 11x14 frame are available online.
However, I think going to that much trouble is more than I'm willing
to do right now. This is mostly for my own enjoyment, and it's a
lot less stressful to try for "pretty good" instead of perfect.
Besides, for the few images (only one so far) that really need 2:3
mats, I have a few left from class -- slightly smaller image size,
but the right proportions.
>> I'm finding whole threads I don't remember starting!
>
> The _second_ thing that goes as you get older...
At least none of those threads is an embarrassment to me now.
That's what's most important to me.
>> for a long time (since shortly after Stewart began passenger service)
>> POK hasn't had any commercial flights at all, except for emergency
>> landings.
>
> Given the smaller runway (5000 feet for 06/24) compared to Stewart
> (11800 for 09/27 - heck the "short" runway 16/34 is 6000 feet), this
> is understandable. 5000 feet would be "tight" for a respectable load
> for most jets though MORE than enough for the smaller commuter birds.
Even when it had commercial service, POK only had smaller planes for
"local" (a few hundred miles at most) flights. Stewart has nonstops
to over 1000 miles away. Also, as I remember mentioning a while
back, POK's longer runway has a ~40' drop past its SW end. It looks
like the ground there was intentionally built up so the runway would
be level.
Adam
TJ
> Moe Trin wrote:
>> amount of Fujicolor. When I moved to California and finally started
>> shooting film again, Photomat was most convenient, and their store
>> brand (as currently is Walgreens) was Fuji.
>
> How has the Fujichrome held up over the years? For the photos for my
> "family collage," a few are prints over 90 years old. Fortunately b/w
> (even if sepia) holds up well. Also, anything too difficult to fix up
> can just be left out.
>
ago, we were going through some of my mother's old photos when we came
across one of my two brothers working behind our first vegetable stand,
back in 1962. The only cameras we had back then were cheapo kid's
cameras that used 620-format roll film, and my mother had an old Brownie
that used 120 film, and most likely the film brand was whatever the drug
store was selling cheapest.
The photo was in rough shape. It had an overall yellow cast to it, with
faded greens and blues, and there were strips on each side where the
worst thing you can do to a photo had been done - it was fastened into
an album with cellophane tape.
But the photo intrigued me, so I used The Gimp to scan it and see what I
could do with it. It was quite a learning process. I expected that, but
what surprised me was how difficult it was to decide when to stop
tweaking it. But eventually I did, and I'm very proud of the result.
I printed a plain-paper 8 x 10 copy to display on our current stand,
labeling it "The Early Years," knowing it would fade and have to be
replaced regularly. Customers love looking at it to this day, and I'm
sure it's helped generate some sales. It humanizes us, makes the
customer feel a part of things.
TJ
Moe Trin
<j29ch2$in$1...@dont-email.me>, Adam wrote:
>Moe Trin wrote:
[missing article numbers in c.o.l.misc]
>So it considered 7 out of 12 posts spam? Wouldn't that exact number
>apply to only to news hosts using cleanfeed? I see various news
>servers using different levels of filtering, if any.
One man's meat... there is no agreed standard to speak of (other
than perhaps "binary post in a text group"). There are several
"standards" for triggering cancellation notices (which many servers
now ignore) but these generally related to excessive posting of
(essentially) the same article. What you then get into is the
individual decision of whoever is in charge of the news server[s].
[when the newsgroup article numbers got reset]
>> then you get into the question of what to do if both servers have
>> the group, but naturally enough with different article numbers.
>Maybe that's why Pan occasionally reports a bunch of articles from
>the past as "new". It can handle multiple servers for the same NG.
> Thunderbird/Seamonkey handles each server separately.
The only "reliable" way to detect whether you've seen an article or
not is to look at the Message-ID header. Those are supposed to be
unique world wide for two years (RFC1036 section 2.1.5, which is
really based on RFC0822 section 4.6.1). The problem with that is
that the Message-ID is intentionally a complex thing, and it's
composition makes it much more difficult to use as an index.
>How has the Fujichrome held up over the years?
Which one? There have probably been a dozen formulations (for lack of
a better term) over the years, and they do behave differently. Some of
the stuff I took in Japan... was it really 45 years ago?... has lost
some of the reds (fading), while some have shifted slightly blue.
Over all, I'm not unhappy.
>For the photos for my "family collage," a few are prints over 90
>years old.
Top of the head, I think the oldest stuff I have here may be some B/W
(Plus-X mainly) from the late 1950s, and it's fine. I was shooting a
bit of color then and into the 1960s, and some of that is OK - some is
a disaster (essentially unrecoverable).
>> In c.p.p, you ask about the Krylon spray, and "Tal...@notreal.com"
>> mentions over-doing it and having the print run. I wonder about
>> spraying the _inside_ of the glass rather than the print itself.
>I bought a can yesterday, and I'll try that for one photo. I'll
>probably only spray about two photos with it, maybe even just part
>of each photo, and see what happens over time. For a few, I'm going
>to print duplicates and keep those in a drawer, so I'll have a
>reference in the future.
I wonder how long it's going to take to show up? All of the windows
here are coated, so the UV levels are lower. Additionally the house
is designed and furnished so that we don't get that much direct sun
effecting things. None the less, the more valuable paintings and
photos are arranged to avoid direct sun.
>He/she also suggested getting my monitor calibrated, and creating
>color profiles for each type of paper.
It's certainly going to be significant. Having multiple monitors
which are close to each other, I can see differences if I pull up
the same image on both. Which is "right"? I dunno.
>the HP Premium Plus print looked sufficiently close to what I saw on
>my monitor, so tomorrow I'm going to stop at Staples and pick up up
>two packages of it, 50 sheets each ("buy 1 get 1 free" sale this week).
We don't do that much printing - never mind color, and typically are
buying the 'sale' stuff when we do get around to it.
>>> The largest framed painting I've seen was:
>> Framed - as opposed to a mural
>Exactly. Also as opposed to paintings on cliffs, or John Banvard's
>16000'-long panorama of nearly all of the Mississippi River which
>/was/ transportable.
But was it viewable in practice? I suspect not (never mind that there
seems to be considerable confusion about the real dimensions - I see
a lot suggesting the actual size was 12 x 1300 feet or "a half mile"
before it was destroyed). I've seen works like some of the cathedrals
in Europe but I was initially thinking of murals - Keith Ferris is a
noted aviation artist (entrance to the NASM has a 25 x 75 ft. mural of
a WW2 B-17 raid and the wife of one of the five crewmembers visible in
the main focus aircraft was shocked to see the accuracy of the view of
her husband - even though he's wearing an oxygen mask, she reportedly
recognized him instantly) and most of his works are 20-30 by 30-40 inch
in oil and occassional water-colors.
>However, I think going to that much trouble is more than I'm willing
>to do right now. This is mostly for my own enjoyment, and it's a
>lot less stressful to try for "pretty good" instead of perfect.
It is good to keep things in perspective - you aren't going to be
graded on the results (other than visitors and posterity), so set back
and enjoy the ride. ;-)
[runways]
>> Given the smaller runway (5000 feet for 06/24) compared to Stewart
>> (11800 for 09/27 - heck the "short" runway 16/34 is 6000 feet), this
>> is understandable. 5000 feet would be "tight" for a respectable load
>> for most jets though MORE than enough for the smaller commuter birds.
>Even when it had commercial service, POK only had smaller planes for
>"local" (a few hundred miles at most) flights. Stewart has nonstops
>to over 1000 miles away.
Two main criteria - the length and the bearing capacity of the runway.
Using a B-737-200 like Southwest used to fly, the 5000 foot runway is
long enough for a full plane to about 1100 miles at 90F/32C, but the
bearing capacity isn't even enough for the empty 737. If it were to
have jet service, you'd be limited to a regional jet like an Embraer
(30 to 50 seats), and probably be range limited to a maybe 800 miles.
More likely, you had turboprop service (perhaps up to the Convair 580s
that Allegheny nee Mohawk used to fly) maybe as far as Cleveland or DC.
The long runway at Stewart looks to be able to handle everything up to
a moderately loaded 747-300. Then you get into the question of what
kind of traffic are you going to get. Stewart can handle the aircraft
capable of (example) most of Europe, but do you have the number of
passengers who want to fill the aircraft often enough to make it pay?
>Also, as I remember mentioning a while back, POK's longer runway has
>a ~40' drop past its SW end. It looks like the ground there was
>intentionally built up so the runway would be level.
I think they extended the runway in 1970. It looks as if the original
design was meant for DC-3s and similar, and for "short range" - perhaps
New York, Albany and maybe Syracuse - what the CAA (forerunner to the
FAA) was calling a Class 3 airport (Old Rhinebeck would be a Class 1,
and Kingston-Ulster a Class 2).
Old guy
Moe Trin
<j2b67i$lfs$1...@dont-email.me>, TJ wrote:
>Restoring old photos can be very rewarding. Something like five years
>ago, we were going through some of my mother's old photos when we
>came across one of my two brothers working behind our first vegetable
>stand, back in 1962. [...] most likely the film brand was whatever
>the drug store was selling cheapest. [...] The photo was in rough
>shape.
Sounds as if you don't have the negative any more - so the film type
is less of a factor. The concern is the brand of paper that the photo
was printed on. That can vary all over the lot.
>It had an overall yellow cast to it, with faded greens and blues, and
>there were strips on each side where the worst thing you can do to a
>photo had been done - it was fastened into an album with cellophane
>tape.
Ouch - I've seen similar problems where the photos were in "clear"
cellophane "protectors" - no adhesive involved, yet there is damage
where the cellophane has stuck to the photos over the years.
>But the photo intrigued me, so I used The Gimp to scan it and see what
>I could do with it. It was quite a learning process. I expected that,
>but what surprised me was how difficult it was to decide when to stop
>tweaking it.
That's always a problem with color photos. Part of it is deciding
what the correct colors are, and then trying to tweak so that the
primary colors are "reasonable". Mentioned, I shot a bit of color
in Japan, and some of the slides have noticeable red fades - easy to
detect because they frequently show a Japanese flag.
>I printed a plain-paper 8 x 10 copy to display on our current stand,
>labeling it "The Early Years," knowing it would fade and have to be
>replaced regularly.
Presumed inkjet printer - have you tried using a better quality paper?
What kind of life are you getting from the prints now?
Old guy
TJ
Oh, a couple of months before fading shows without looking for it. But
that's not bad when you consider that they're outside, exposed to the
sun. They are in a Plexiglas sign holder, so that probably helps. It
doesn't matter to me, because I refill my own ink carts, and the paper
was purchased at a garage sale - cheap.
Pro photographers would cringe, I suppose. But that photo and others are
doing the job they're meant to do.
TJ
Adam
> On 08/14/2011 04:51 PM, Adam wrote:
>> For the photos for my
>> "family collage," a few are prints over 90 years old. Fortunately b/w
>> (even if sepia) holds up well. Also, anything too difficult to fix up
>> can just be left out.
>>
> Restoring old photos can be very rewarding.
As I gather I'm about to find out! :-) What I've been working on is
my "artsy" collection, ones that I think will look nice as
enlargements on my own wall, and so far I've been working from the
original slides, most of which have held up pretty well.
My next project, once I get the first batch of artsy ones on my
wall, is my "family collage" project, where sentiment is more
important than artistic value. Most of those are prints from
long-gone negatives, but shouldn't take too much work as they've
been stored in boxes and seldom looked at. Some of the older ones
are going to take a bit of restoring, though, especially the color ones.
> we came across one of my two brothers working behind our first
> vegetable stand, back in 1962. The only cameras we had back then
> were cheapo kid's cameras that used 620-format roll film, and my
> mother had an old Brownie that used 120 film, and most likely the
> film brand was whatever the drug store was selling cheapest.
Actually 120 is still used (when film is used at all!) by pros
shooting medium-format. 620 is discontinued but was just 120 on a
different spool. When I was a kid, "Instamatic" (126 cartridge) was
popular, and soon after that "Pocket Instamatic" (110 cartridge).
> The photo was in rough shape. It had an overall yellow cast to it,
> with faded greens and blues, and there were strips on each side
> where the worst thing you can do to a photo had been done - it was
> fastened into an album with cellophane tape.
Yeah, color prints, especially cheap ones, don't hold up as well.
B/W lasts much much longer. I think the worst prints for longevity
are Polaroid color prints, the ones from the peel-apart era.
> But the photo intrigued me, so I used The Gimp to scan it and see
> what I could do with it. It was quite a learning process.
I had a little of that in Graphic Design I. Actually we were
learning and using PhotoShop, but I used GIMP at home and didn't
tell anybody. I think everyone else in the class was an aspiring
commercial artist, where PhotoShop is the de facto standard.
However, we were creating and manipulating images to achieve an
effect, not trying for realism. I suppose the Color Photography
(digital) course, which also uses PhotoShop, is the one that
emphasizes realistic-looking images. On most of my "artsy" ones I
tried for something realistic-looking, although for two or three I
went beyond that. For example, one is autumn leaves with the color
saturation cranked way up, no longer realistic but IMHO a nice image.
> I printed a plain-paper 8 x 10 copy to display on our current stand,
> labeling it "The Early Years," knowing it would fade and have to be
> replaced regularly.
I'd guess it works better that way, as worn faded photos look more
"authentic" to many people.
> Customers love looking at it to this day, and
> I'm sure it's helped generate some sales. It humanizes us, makes the
> customer feel a part of things.
I'm sure it does help. It associates real people with the
vegetables, and it's harder to say "no" in person.
Adam
Adam
I think it would work better that way. Something too
professional-looking would give the impression of a larger company.
Adam
Adam
> in the Usenet newsgroup alt.os.linux.mandriva,Adam wrote:
> What you then get into is the individual [filtering]
> decision of whoever is in charge of the news server[s].
Which might affect the user's choice of news server, for those who
are aware of it. I'll stick with e-s; they've never filtered out
anything that I'd miss.
> the Message-ID header. Those are supposed to be
> unique world wide for two years
Only two years? Teranews has text groups where posts from 2005-on
are still available. I'm still plowing through the ones in
comp.periphs.printers.
> Top of the head, I think the oldest stuff I have here may be some B/W
> (Plus-X mainly) from the late 1950s, and it's fine. I was shooting a
> bit of color then and into the 1960s, and some of that is OK - some is
> a disaster (essentially unrecoverable).
Obviously I didn't take the oldest ones (Grandpa in WW I), but
generally the B/W prints from all ages have held up adequately. The
color prints are new enough to be mostly okay. The "family collage"
(a separate project from my artsy photos) will be mostly from
scanned prints.
>>> In c.p.p, you ask about the Krylon spray, and "Tal...@notreal.com"
>>> mentions over-doing it and having the print run. I wonder about
>>> spraying the _inside_ of the glass rather than the print itself.
I tried that, but it left a visible coating on the glass. None of
my prints ran, but I was careful.
> I wonder how long it's going to take to show up?
I think the spray is going to be overkill for me. Besides trying it
on the glass, I made four prints of the same image, and sprayed the
left half of three of them. The unsprayed one goes into a drawer or
closet as a reference; one sprayed one will be hung on the wall
behind glass, and the other two will be in a window exposed to
direct sunlight, one in front of the window glass and one behind it.
Also, the spray smells very strongly of -- I think enamel, like the
paints I used on plastic models as a kid. Even doing the spraying
outdoors and letting them dry there for an hour, those prints still
smell of it hours later. I hope it goes away within a day or two.
>> HP Premium Plus print looked sufficiently close to what I saw on
>> my monitor, so tomorrow I'm going to stop at Staples
>
> We don't do that much printing - never mind color, and typically are
> buying the 'sale' stuff when we do get around to it.
I got the last two 25-packs of HP Premium Plus high gloss ("buy 1
get 1 free" this week), and I'm very happy with the results, even
though my "new" OfficeJet isn't optimized for photo printing.
(Makes sense for an office printer.) However, each 8x10
photo-quality print uses up about 8-11% of the #22 tricolor
cartridge ($20 retail), so I'm only using the OEM ink for photos,
and refilling ink cartridges for everyday use. Of course I use the
dinosaur LJ for most things because of its cost per page.
>> John Banvard's 16000'-long panorama of nearly
>> all of the Mississippi River
>
> But was it viewable in practice?
I gather that it would get rolled from one spool to another as a
speaker (Banvard?) lectured on the portion that was visible at that
moment. It sounds like good entertainment for its time.
> Keith Ferris is a
> noted aviation artist (entrance to the NASM has a 25 x 75 ft. mural of
> a WW2 B-17 raid and the wife of one of the five crewmembers visible in
> the main focus aircraft was shocked to see the accuracy of the view of
> her husband
That kind of attention to detail, even though the chances of anyone
noticing were slim, shows a rare thoroughness and dedication. Oscar
Hammerstein said he was amazed to discover that the top of the
Statue of Liberty was done with as much detail as the bottom, even
though Bartholdi had no idea that anyone would ever be close enough
to see it.
>> This [artsy photos] is mostly for my own enjoyment, and it's a
>> lot less stressful to try for "pretty good" instead of perfect.
>
> It is good to keep things in perspective - you aren't going to be
> graded on the results (other than visitors and posterity), so set back
> and enjoy the ride. ;-)
Yep, I've now got "good enough" prints of the first batch, just have
to mat and frame them, and figure out a nice arrangement on the
wall. At that point, the project will be "done for now," with
eventually going through my prints (1994-on) for a few more. Next
will be the family collage.
[runways]
> Stewart can handle the aircraft
> capable of (example) most of Europe, but do you have the number of
> passengers who want to fill the aircraft often enough to make it pay?
I heard they were trying to make it into NYC's fourth airport, but I
have no idea how that's going. From what you say, Stewart can
handle any of the flights that the others can (Europe or LA
nonstop), just not as many of them.
> I think they extended [POK's] runway in 1970. It looks as if the original
> design was meant for DC-3s and similar, and for "short range" - perhaps
> New York, Albany and maybe Syracuse - what the CAA (forerunner to the
> FAA) was calling a Class 3 airport (Old Rhinebeck would be a Class 1,
> and Kingston-Ulster a Class 2).
I didn't even know Old Rhinebeck's runway could be used for anything
besides their shows (and of course emergency landings). I believe
for a while there were flights from Po'k to DC. What class would
Sky Acres, and a big one like JFK (IDL?) or ORD, have been?
Adam
TJ
> I think the spray is going to be overkill for me. Besides trying it on
> the glass, I made four prints of the same image, and sprayed the left
> half of three of them. The unsprayed one goes into a drawer or closet as
> a reference; one sprayed one will be hung on the wall behind glass, and
> the other two will be in a window exposed to direct sunlight, one in
> front of the window glass and one behind it.
>
> Also, the spray smells very strongly of -- I think enamel, like the
> paints I used on plastic models as a kid. Even doing the spraying
> outdoors and letting them dry there for an hour, those prints still
> smell of it hours later. I hope it goes away within a day or two.
>
paints were made of. But it's been a LONG time since I painted a model. :^(
TJ
Adam
> On 08/17/2011 02:40 AM, Adam wrote:
[Krylon UV-resistant clear coating]
>> Also, the spray smells very strongly of -- I think enamel, like the
>> paints I used on plastic models as a kid. Even doing the spraying
>> outdoors and letting them dry there for an hour, those prints still
>> smell of it hours later. I hope it goes away within a day or two.
>>
> I think you mean lacquer, not enamel. As I remember, that was what
> model paints were made of. But it's been a LONG time since I painted
> a model. :^(
I should have smelled before writing. I have two recent bottles of
Testor's paint for plastic models, silver and matte black for
computer equipment touch-ups. Both say "enamel," and the one I
opened did indeed smell like the spray. BTW the inkjet prints I
sprayed now smell a lot less than they did at first. Check back in
a couple of months for my report on whether the spray made any
difference.
I haven't painted or assembled a plastic model kit since the '70s.
They used to be everywhere, but now they seem to be only in craft
stores. Testor's also made a line of paint (I forget its base) for
wooden models; it came in slightly larger bottles so there was no
way the two could be confused.
Adam
Moe Trin
<j2fnoq$tnv$1...@dont-email.me>, Adam wrote:
>Moe Trin wrote:
>> What you then get into is the individual [filtering] decision of
>> whoever is in charge of the news server[s].
>Which might affect the user's choice of news server, for those who
>are aware of it. I'll stick with e-s; they've never filtered out
>anything that I'd miss.
You hit it there - most readers are completely unaware of filtering
done upstream, and fewer can think how to detect that it occurs. But
then, how many people even have some concept (beyond "some magic
happens") of how Usenet even works in the first place.
>> the Message-ID header. Those are supposed to be unique world wide
>> for two years
>Only two years?
RFC1036 says
The "Message-ID" line gives the message a unique identifier. The
Message-ID may not be reused during the lifetime of any previous
message with the same Message-ID. (It is recommended that no
Message-ID be reused for at least two years.)
but "Son of 1036" (a proposed RFC that was mooted about for nearly 20
years before being published for historic value as RFC1849) changed
that to
Posters and posting agents MUST generate the local part of a message
ID using an algorithm that obeys the specified syntax (words
separated by ".", with certain characters not permitted) (see Section
5.2 for details) and will not repeat itself (ever).
and added a note
NOTE: The crucial use of message IDs is to distinguish circulating
articles from each other and from articles circulated recently.
They are also potentially useful as permanent indexing keys, hence
the requirement for permanent uniqueness, but indexers cannot
absolutely rely on this because the earlier RFCs urged it but did
not demand it. All major implementations have always generated
permanently unique message IDs by design, but in some cases this
is sensitive to proper administration, and duplicates may have
occurred by accident.
and RFC5536 (the eventual replacement for 1036) makes the uniqueness
mandatory - going even further and saying
The global uniqueness requirement for <msg-id> in [RFC5322] is to be
understood as applying across all protocols using such message
identifiers, and across both Email and Netnews in particular.
RFC5322 being the successor to RFC2822 and RFC0822 relating to
"Internet Message Format" which is normally thought of as just "email".
[photo stuff]
>> Top of the head, I think the oldest stuff I have here may be some
>> B/W (Plus-X mainly) from the late 1950s, and it's fine.
>Obviously I didn't take the oldest ones (Grandpa in WW I), but
>generally the B/W prints from all ages have held up adequately.
The really old stuff is all held by my sister, and I don't think I've
even looked at it in twenty years. They're mainly prints in a dozen
or so photo albums. The stuff that I shot while still in grade/high
school has long disappeared (but someplace around here, I've got both
year-books, so not all of the memories are gone).
>The color prints are new enough to be mostly okay.
I've noticed that prints that are less than ~30 years old are standing
up quite well, but I'm not displaying many of those.
>>>> In c.p.p, you ask about the Krylon spray, and "Tal...@notreal.com"
>>>> mentions over-doing it and having the print run. I wonder about
>>>> spraying the _inside_ of the glass rather than the print itself.
>I tried that, but it left a visible coating on the glass.
Uneven amounts? Or just a lesser transparency?
>None of my prints ran, but I was careful.
That's good.
>> I wonder how long it's going to take to show up?
>I think the spray is going to be overkill for me. Besides trying it
>on the glass, I made four prints of the same image, and sprayed the
>left half of three of them. The unsprayed one goes into a drawer or
>closet as a reference; one sprayed one will be hung on the wall
>behind glass, and the other two will be in a window exposed to
>direct sunlight, one in front of the window glass and one behind it.
That sounds like a good test plan. "in front of" vs. "behind" - do
you mean placing one inside and one outside?
>Also, the spray smells very strongly of -- I think enamel, like the
>paints I used on plastic models as a kid. Even doing the spraying
>outdoors and letting them dry there for an hour, those prints still
>smell of it hours later. I hope it goes away within a day or two.
I can't understand it persisting very long. I'd expect it to be dry
in seconds, and any long term solvent release should be minimal. Of
course, there is the question of _which_ Krylon are you using ;-)
(There is a "KR7027 Krylon Matte" that is supposedly for photo work,
but how it differs from the eleventy dozen other varieties is open to
question - other than the label and the US$8 to 15.95 price for 11 oz.)
>I got the last two 25-packs of HP Premium Plus high gloss ("buy 1
>get 1 free" this week), and I'm very happy with the results, even
>though my "new" OfficeJet isn't optimized for photo printing.
OK It really up to "photo-quality"?
>However, each 8x10 photo-quality print uses up about 8-11% of the
>#22 tricolor cartridge ($20 retail)
Holy Toledo! So a nominal 2 bux a pop plus the paper - I wonder if
Kinkos isn't going to be cheaper ;-)
>>> John Banvard's 16000'-long panorama of nearly all of the
>>> Mississippi River
>> But was it viewable in practice?
>I gather that it would get rolled from one spool to another as a
>speaker (Banvard?) lectured on the portion that was visible at that
>moment. It sounds like good entertainment for its time.
Somewhat reminds me of the "public lecturer" equipment that Sears was
selling around 1900 - basically a slide projector and a few dozen
hand colored slides, lecture notes, a 10x12' portable screen, posters
and tickets - all for $50. "No experience needed".
>Oscar Hammerstein said he was amazed to discover that the top of the
>Statue of Liberty was done with as much detail as the bottom, even
>though Bartholdi had no idea that anyone would ever be close enough
>to see it.
I'm not sure who said it, but some idiot from the press was giving an
artist a hard time because the artist was spending time/effort on
something that was going to be covered, and never seen by the public.
"Why are you wasting your time - no one will ever know it's there,
much less see it." To me, the answer was perfect: "I'll know".
[runways]
>> Stewart can handle the aircraft capable of (example) most of Europe,
>> but do you have the number of passengers who want to fill the
>> aircraft often enough to make it pay?
>I heard they were trying to make it into NYC's fourth airport, but I
>have no idea how that's going.
That's the thing that makes me wonder too - it's relatively far from
the metro area. Admittedly, it's also the largest pre-existing
runway near by that isn't hemmed in with residential areas.
>From what you say, Stewart can handle any of the flights that the
>others can (Europe or LA nonstop), just not as many of them.
Last I heard, 747 style aircraft (the arrangement/pattern of the
wheels) were limited at SWF to 775,000 pounds (387.5 tons). While
that is a lot, most 747s in use today can exceed 405 tons (the -8 can
go to 485 tons), the Airbus A-380 has a maximum _landing_ weight in
that range and a maximum weight over 620 tons. The other problem is
a lack of facilities - the ramp might be big enough to park 25 or so
747s and A-380s, but the terminal is SEVERELY lacking - never mind
the lack of space for customs/immigration/security.
>> what the CAA was calling a Class 3 airport (Old Rhinebeck would be
>> a Class 1, and Kingston-Ulster a Class 2).
>I didn't even know Old Rhinebeck's runway could be used for anything
>besides their shows (and of course emergency landings).
Class 1 airports were not for commercial (airline) use - they were
meant for small communities and aircraft < 4000 pounds.
>I believe for a while there were flights from Po'k to DC.
In 1970, I know Command did Binghampton, Burlington (VT) and JFK.
>What class would Sky Acres,
Hmmm... Sky Acres... OK that's Millbrook - "44N" Lessee, 3800 x 60
feet, max single wheel 20,000 pounds. That would be a Class 2 except
that the paved width is rather small for commercial use (spec was 100'
minimum). The width is important for multi-engine aircraft - if you
loose an engine on takeoff, you ARE going to go a bit sideways, and it
helps to have room to do so without running off the pavement.
>and a big one like JFK (IDL?) or ORD, have been?
Neither of which existed when these specs were written in 1938. The
largest class defined was a Class 5, and a reasonable example was
Chicago Midway (ultimately six 5100' and two 6500' runways in one
square mile) which was busy as hell in the 1950s (flew through there
twice on Friday evenings in 1956). Even LaGuardia was barely a Class
5 (two of the four runways were much shorter than spec - Newark was a
more important airport in the late 30s). IDL was _planned_ for seven
6000', one 6800', two 8000', one 10000' and one 11200' runways when
construction started in 1943 (Class 5 required runways 5700 feet or
longer, and the wartime B-29 runways in the Marianas were 8400-8900
feet long). I'm pretty sure all 12 runways were not actually built -
only four are in use now. ORD was also a war-time build, and didn't
begin commercial operations until about 1957 or so. You also have
to put things into perspective - those 1938 specs required a runway
length that was ~50% greater than the B17/B24 that entered service in
1940-42 and this was adaquate for the DC-6 and 0749 Constellation that
entered service in 1950. Even into the late 1950s, air travel wasn't
as extensive as it is now. Midway was the busiest airport then, but
had less than 40 percent of the takeoff/landings that O'Hara (with one
less runway though they are laid out better) is doing now. And the
aircraft are much larger than they were.
Old guy
Adam
> in the Usenet newsgroup alt.os.linux.mandriva, Adam wrote:
[news server filtering]
> You hit it there - most readers are completely unaware of filtering
> done upstream, and fewer can think how to detect that it occurs.
I thought it was obvious -- just compare what two different servers
have for the same group. That's how I know that e-s hasn't been
filtering out anything I'd miss.
[photo stuff]
>> I got the last two 25-packs of HP Premium Plus high gloss ("buy 1
>> get 1 free" this week), and I'm very happy with the results, even
>> though my "new" OfficeJet isn't optimized for photo printing.
>
> OK It really up to "photo-quality"?
Without a side-by-side comparison, I think it's fine. I don't feel
any need for a "better" inkjet printer. There'd probably be some
noticeable difference in a side-by-side comparison, though.
>> However, each 8x10 photo-quality print uses up about 8-11% of the
>> #22 tricolor cartridge ($20 retail)
>
> Holy Toledo! So a nominal 2 bux a pop plus the paper - I wonder if
> Kinkos isn't going to be cheaper ;-)
"Who buys retail?" ;-) I've read that HP makes more profit from ink
than any other product. On eBay it's easy to get genuine unexpired
HP cartridges for half that or less. Also, I'm only using the HP
ink for the photos. For everything else on it (not much because the
LJ gets most of the work), I'm refilling the carts myself, which is
relatively easy. And there's not actually a Kinko's around here,
although I'm sure there are other stores offering the same service.
>>>>> In c.p.p, you ask about the Krylon spray [...] I wonder about
>>>>> spraying the _inside_ of the glass rather than the print itself.
>
>> I tried that, but it left a visible coating on the glass.
>
> Uneven amounts? Or just a lesser transparency?
Somewhat like water condensation on glass, slightly blurry and a
little less transparent.
>> I think the spray is going to be overkill for me. Besides trying it
>> on the glass, I made four prints of the same image, and sprayed the
>> left half of three of them. The unsprayed one goes into a drawer or
>> closet as a reference; one sprayed one will be hung on the wall
>> behind glass, and the other two will be in a window exposed to
>> direct sunlight, one in front of the window glass and one behind it.
>
> That sounds like a good test plan. "in front of" vs. "behind" - do
> you mean placing one inside and one outside?
Yes, one on the inside of the window, and the other with only the
metal screen in the way, which isn't much protection from strong
rain. Also, in case anybody passing by wonders why I have photos
facing out, I put up a note like "Can you tell which half of each
print was sprayed to prevent fading? These have been here since
August 17, 2011."
>> Also, the spray smells very strongly of -- I think enamel [...]
>> those prints still smell of it hours later.
>
> I can't understand it persisting very long. I'd expect it to be dry
> in seconds, and any long term solvent release should be minimal. Of
> course, there is the question of _which_ Krylon are you using ;-)
http://www.krylon.com/products/uvresistant_clear/ gloss. That page
has a link to the MSDS. And the odor did go away within two days.
I just have to remember to use it outdoors, and also let them dry
outdoors, at least at first.
As you may have already guessed, I got decent prints made, matted
and framed them, and hung them on the wall. I think it looks nice.
With that, the project has been moved down to low priority,
meaning eventually I'll look through my color prints (1994-on) and
maybe replace a few now hanging. Next is that family collage, which
will start with scanning in several hundred photos.
> The really old stuff is all held by my sister, and I don't think
> I've even looked at it in twenty years. They're mainly prints
> in a dozen or so photo albums.
Has she figured out who gets them next?
> The stuff that I shot while still in grade/high
> school has long disappeared
Most of my earliest stuff is around, but not worth keeping. Since I
got my first SLR in 9th grade, though, I have practically everything.
> (but someplace around here, I've got both
> year-books, so not all of the memories are gone).
Someone pointed out that high school yearbooks are almost never
gotten rid of, and most people still have detailed memories of
people and events there decades later.
>> The color prints are new enough to be mostly okay.
>
> I've noticed that prints that are less than ~30 years old are
> standing up quite well, but I'm not displaying many of those.
This is actually the first time ever I'm displaying any of my own
photos in my own home, but all the color ones have been digitized so
I can always reprint them. Three are b/w prints from class, but I
suppose the negatives could be scanned in if necessary. Now they
look low-contrast by comparison.
> Somewhat reminds me of the "public lecturer" equipment that Sears was
> selling around 1900 - basically a slide projector and a few dozen
> hand colored slides, lecture notes, a 10x12' portable screen, posters
> and tickets - all for $50. "No experience needed".
I have a book called "Mark Twain on the Lecture Circuit" and it
discusses the various booking agencies, "classes" of lecturers, fee
scales, routing, and so on.
[runways]
>> I heard they were trying to make [SWF] into NYC's fourth airport,
>> but I have no idea how that's going.
>
> That's the thing that makes me wonder too - it's relatively far from
> the metro area.
Farther than most, but then airports are usually in the suburbs
anyway, possible exception of SAN, San Diego. One small point in
favor of trains. HPN, White Plains, NY is closer to NYC and can
handle commercial flights (I used to fly DTW-HPN) but I suppose
there's some other reason it's not suitable for a metro airport.
> Last I heard, 747 style aircraft (the arrangement/pattern of the
> wheels) were limited at SWF to 775,000 pounds (387.5 tons).
AFAIK nothing says they have to move /all/ types of traffic to
Stewart. It seems to me that if they just shifted the (relatively)
smaller planes there, that would still take some load off the other
three NYC-area airports.
> The other problem is
> a lack of facilities - the ramp might be big enough to park 25 or so
> 747s and A-380s, but the terminal is SEVERELY lacking - never mind
> the lack of space for customs/immigration/security.
Wouldn't that be easier to take care of by adding a new building? Or
possibly restricting it to domestic flights only?
Adam
Moe Trin
<j2mr30$6uu$1...@dont-email.me>, Adam wrote:
>Moe Trin wrote:
[news server filtering]
>> You hit it there - most readers are completely unaware of filtering
>> done upstream, and fewer can think how to detect that it occurs.
>I thought it was obvious -- just compare what two different servers
>have for the same group. That's how I know that e-s hasn't been
>filtering out anything I'd miss.
I wonder how many people are using multiple servers? Most newsreaders
aren't happy with more than one set of article numbers per group.
[photo stuff]
>> It really up to "photo-quality"?
>Without a side-by-side comparison, I think it's fine.
OK
>I don't feel any need for a "better" inkjet printer. There'd probably
>be some noticeable difference in a side-by-side comparison, though.
At the price, it's probably a reasonable trade-off.
>> Holy Toledo! So a nominal 2 bux a pop plus the paper - I wonder if
>> Kinkos isn't going to be cheaper ;-)
>"Who buys retail?" ;-)
That's a point. Even buying genuine HP at WalMart is much less.
>I've read that HP makes more profit from ink than any other product.
A lot of companies work that way - Xerox was often cited as making
more money on toner than they made on their (very expensive) copiers.
But HP used to make a bundle on computer service. ALL of the
componants used in their systems were only marked with their part
numbers. It might be a 7400N that you could buy for under a buck,
but all you knew was that it was a 3754-2893 (what ever that was).
Most of the "repairs" were simple board swaps, and the repair price
was based on the cost of the "new" board. (And of course, they then
shipped the old board back to the factory for a repair, so it could
be sold again.)
>On eBay it's easy to get genuine unexpired HP cartridges for half
>that or less. Also, I'm only using the HP ink for the photos.
I'm not doing photos very often, and have a "store" here that sells
their store branded stuff for relatively low prices. The carts don't
have any logo, so I don't think they're refilled HPs.
>For everything else on it (not much because the LJ gets most of the
>work), I'm refilling the carts myself, which is relatively easy.
Actually, I have a "re-inking" tool for my Epson dot-matrix, but ink
isn't as available as it once was - seems no one is using fountain
pens any more. ;-)
>And there's not actually a Kinko's around here, although I'm sure
>there are other stores offering the same service.
I'm not sure where the nearest Kinkos is here - phone book says
there are three within 5 miles of the house, and I know one is
within a half mile of where my wife and where I work. For home,
there's a Walgreen that does digital photo work about 3/4 mile away.
[Krylon spray]
>> Uneven amounts? Or just a lesser transparency?
>Somewhat like water condensation on glass, slightly blurry and a
>little less transparent.
Hmmm... was the glass clean to start with? I can't say that I've
used it that often, but haven't noticed much degredation.
>> "in front of" vs. "behind" - do you mean placing one inside and
>> one outside?
>Yes, one on the inside of the window, and the other with only the
>metal screen in the way, which isn't much protection from strong
>rain.
Definately a problem here - Thursday evening, we had a major mud
storm (blowing dust AND rain). I spent over an hour cleaning up
the pool after that. (Literally, the contents of the rain gauges
was discolored by entrained dirt. The dirt is exceptionally fine,
on the order of dry cement.)
>Also, in case anybody passing by wonders why I have photos facing
>out, I put up a note like "Can you tell which half of each print
>was sprayed to prevent fading? These have been here since August
>17, 2011."
"Is it real, or is"... no, wrong ad. Any responses?
[aroma of spray]
>> I'd expect it to be dry in seconds, and any long term solvent
>> release should be minimal. Of course, there is the question of
>> _which_ Krylon are you using ;-)
>http://www.krylon.com/products/uvresistant_clear/ gloss. That page
>has a link to the MSDS. And the odor did go away within two days.
Still, that's an awfully long "drying" time. I did some spray painting
last week (touch-up with a store brand equivalent), and the paint was
dry to the touch in under five minutes, handleable in fifteen, and
"usable" in about an hour.
>I just have to remember to use it outdoors, and also let them dry
>outdoors, at least at first.
Don't forget it's going to take longer to dry when it's cool - maybe
a LOT longer.
>With that, the project has been moved down to low priority, meaning
>eventually I'll look through my color prints (1994-on) and maybe
>replace a few now hanging.
I've got a few family member shots up and a few Northern California
scenics - one I like the most is a closeup (100 feet?) of a Roosevelt
Elk in Redwood National park. BIG sucker! (Bull and two cows that
are grazing in a meadow, just off a fire trail we were walking. The
bull is looking at the camera as if debating the energy needed to drive
us away. We took the shot, and left fairly quickly.)
>> The really old stuff is all held by my sister, and I don't think
>> I've even looked at it in twenty years. They're mainly prints
>> in a dozen or so photo albums.
>Has she figured out who gets them next?
Her daughter - that's a given
>> The stuff that I shot while still in grade/high school has long
>> disappeared
>Most of my earliest stuff is around, but not worth keeping. Since I
>got my first SLR in 9th grade, though, I have practically everything.
I had a cheap Kodak box camera - I didn't get into 35 mm until I got
into the service.
>Someone pointed out that high school yearbooks are almost never
>gotten rid of, and most people still have detailed memories of
>people and events there decades later.
The last of our 'care free' time. I had a lot more fun once I got out
of the service, because then I had a decent car, and a job that paid
me well enough to be able to do things. Then I got into overseas work
and things got even better!
>> I've noticed that prints that are less than ~30 years old are
>> standing up quite well, but I'm not displaying many of those.
>This is actually the first time ever I'm displaying any of my own
>photos in my own home, but all the color ones have been digitized so
>I can always reprint them.
The elk mentioned above - the photo my wife has of me at work is a
shot taken at Point Reyes looking up the beach. (The photo of my wife
at work is her casually holding an elephant rifle - it's actually an
inside joke, as she disliked the gun as to big and noisey.)
[runways]
>> That's the thing that makes me wonder too - it's relatively far from
>> the metro area.
>Farther than most, but then airports are usually in the suburbs
>anyway, possible exception of SAN, San Diego.
Oh, I can think of a number of airports that are close in - PHX is
about 12000 feet from 1 Central Ave, Bob Hope (BUR) likewise, and SJC
is even closer.
>One small point in favor of trains.
The lines at security tend to be shorter, but that assumes you even
have train service - try Phoenix by train and air.
>HPN, White Plains, NY is closer to NYC and can handle commercial
>flights (I used to fly DTW-HPN) but I suppose there's some other
>reason it's not suitable for a metro airport.
The runways are a bit short (11/29 is 4450', 16/34 is 6550'), and the
bearing capacities are low (11/29 55 tons max, 16/34 76 ton) - that
limits you to a smaller 737 at best. Oh, and it has "noise problems".
>> Last I heard, 747 style aircraft (the arrangement/pattern of the
>> wheels) were limited at SWF to 775,000 pounds (387.5 tons).
>AFAIK nothing says they have to move /all/ types of traffic to
>Stewart. It seems to me that if they just shifted the (relatively)
>smaller planes there, that would still take some load off the other
>three NYC-area airports.
But who would want to go there? It's fine if all anyone is doing is
changing planes, but that assumes all destinations are accessible
from that airport. If SWF is a starting or ending point, you have
to gauge the difficulty getting to/from the airport as compared to
locally generated traffic.
>> The other problem is a lack of facilities - the ramp might be big
>> enough to park 25 or so 747s and A-380s, but the terminal is
>> SEVERELY lacking - never mind the lack of space for
>> customs/immigration/security.
>Wouldn't that be easier to take care of by adding a new building?
That's the usual solution - but I doubt they have room for more
than a dozen gates, and even that entails knocking down at least one
existing hanger and maybe widening the ramp.
>Or possibly restricting it to domestic flights only?
You could go with 'pre-cleared' flights (where for example you clear
customs/immigration at the departure airport such as CYUL, CYYZ, CYVR
and similar), but having to enlarge the terminal anyway...
Followup: About 3 weeks ago, we discussed Cal Rodgers and the Vin
Fiz who flew New York to Pasadena in only 49 days and 19 crashes. See
if your local library has a copy of the September 2011 issue of the
Smithsonian "Air & Space" magazine - pg 27-33 is a good article on
the flight written 50 years ago by one of his "support" team. I recall
reading that Old Rhinebeck has a replica, and will be displaying it at
Middletown NY which was the first stop on the flight - as well as the
first crash when the bird failed to clear the trees on takeoff. There
is a second story of a 1936 race (by commercial air) around the world
with the winner only taking 18 days. (In the 1970s, TWA and PanAm had
scheduled round the world flights taking marginally over 72 hours.)
Old guy
Adam
> in the Usenet newsgroup alt.os.linux.mandriva, Adam wrote:
[news server filtering]
>> just compare what two different servers
>> have for the same group.
>
> I wonder how many people are using multiple servers?
I have no idea, but I suppose one could always compare against
Google Groups, although I have no idea what level of filtering
/they're/ using. I use three news servers, plus two specialized
ones (only that organization's products) from the list at
http://www.nyx.net/~bkraft/ . E-s for text NGs, another for
binaries, and Teranews for their retention of text NGs and binary fills.
> Most newsreaders
> aren't happy with more than one set of article numbers per group.
The ones designed for binaries can handle that, or at least Pan and
Klibido which I used before that. Thunderbird/Seamonkey handle each
server separately, thus throwing the problem back at the user.
[photo stuff]
>> I don't feel any need for a "better" inkjet printer. There'd probably
>> be some noticeable difference in a side-by-side comparison, though.
>
> At the price, it's probably a reasonable trade-off.
I figured that as the OfficeJet cost me $21, if I didn't like its
photo printing, it would serve as a fax, copier, and sheet-fed
scanner, and I'd still have enough money left to buy something
better for photos.
>>> Holy Toledo! So a nominal 2 bux a pop plus the paper - I wonder if
>>> Kinkos isn't going to be cheaper ;-)
>
>> "Who buys retail?" ;-)
>
> That's a point. Even buying genuine HP at WalMart is much less.
The $20 for an HP 22 cartridge IS the usual retail price, at
WalMart, Staples, Target, and everyplace else.
>> I've read that HP makes more profit from ink than any other product.
>
> A lot of companies work that way
Starting with King Gillette. I know my HP CLJ5 was originally
$7,500 but I never looked into the original prices of
user-replaceable assemblies and toner, and whether they were
"reasonable" or marked up as much as consumables are today.
Nowadays pieces for it are almost being given away on eBay. 250 ml
of toner (K yields 3000-4000 pages) is around $10, drum assembly
around $30-50, and so on. The beast has its faults, but I doubt
anything currently in production for home or SOHO use can beat it on
cost per page.
>> I'm only using the HP ink for the photos. [...]
>> For everything else on it (not much because the LJ gets most of the
>> work), I'm refilling the carts myself, which is relatively easy.
>
> Actually, I have a "re-inking" tool for my Epson dot-matrix, but ink
> isn't as available as it once was - seems no one is using fountain
> pens any more. ;-)
I remember seeing ads for those in 80-Micro, Byte, etc. along with
discussions of print quality, longevity, etc. of re-inked ribbons,
third-party ribbons and cartridges, OEM ribbons... a discussion
that's still going on, although now it's about ink and toner.
>> Also, in case anybody passing by wonders why I have photos facing
>> out, I put up a note like "Can you tell which half of each print
>> was sprayed to prevent fading? These have been here since August
>> 17, 2011."
>
> "Is it real, or is"... no, wrong ad. Any responses?
No, and I'm not really expecting any. I put the note up to prevent
questions of why the photos were there in the first place.
>> Most of my earliest stuff is around, but not worth keeping. Since I
>> got my first SLR in 9th grade, though, I have practically everything.
>
> I had a cheap Kodak box camera - I didn't get into 35 mm until I got
> into the service.
I had enough experience with my father's SLR so that I had no
problem when I was given mine in 9th grade. Of the eight photos of
mine I just hung up on my wall, two were taken when I was 16. I
didn't get into darkroom work until I took that course in 2007, though.
[runways]
> If SWF is a starting or ending point, you have
> to gauge the difficulty getting to/from the airport as compared to
> locally generated traffic.
I suppose anyone who lives or works north of NYC might find SWF
easier to get to than one of the NYC-area airports. That would
include people who'd otherwise go to ALB or BDL.
> I doubt they have room for more
> than a dozen gates, and even that entails knocking down at least one
> existing hanger and maybe widening the ramp.
Well, nothing says it has to be as large as, or have all the
facilities of, JFK/LGA/EWR. It only needs to take some of the load
away from those three. Sort of like a branch library -- limited
facilities, but more convenient for some.
> Followup: About 3 weeks ago, we discussed Cal Rodgers and the Vin
> Fiz who flew New York to Pasadena in only 49 days and 19 crashes. See
> if your local library has a copy of the September 2011 issue of the
> Smithsonian "Air & Space" magazine - pg 27-33 is a good article on
> the flight written 50 years ago by one of his "support" team.
Thanks, I'll look for it at the DCC library. That seems more likely
to have it than the public libraries. Classes start next week, and
I'll be in "Lifetime Fitness and Wellness" as everything better was
already full. I also picked up an exercise bike from Freecycle.
Like all exercise bikes I know of, the energy expended/created just
gets wasted. I'd like to see it get used somehow, maybe a generator
that could recharge NiCd, NiMh, etc. batteries.
Adam
Moe Trin
<j2ujvp$jr5$1...@dont-email.me>, Adam wrote:
>Moe Trin wrote:
[news server filtering]
>> I wonder how many people are using multiple servers?
>I have no idea, but I suppose one could always compare against
>Google Groups, although I have no idea what level of filtering
>/they're/ using.
I stopped trying to figure out what they're doing - their Usenet
interface sucks black holes through cocktail straws. There are quite
a number of "free" (meaning accessible by the general public) Usenet
providers out there - news.cnntp.org. news.sunsite.dk, fb1.euro.net,
free.yottanews.com, freenews.netfront.net, freetext.usenetserver.com
just to name a few in no specific order. As you note, some have
filtering that isn't obvious.
>I use three news servers, plus two specialized ones (only that
>organization's products)
Overlapping groups?
>> Most newsreaders aren't happy with more than one set of article
>> numbers per group.
>The ones designed for binaries can handle that, or at least Pan and
>Klibido which I used before that. Thunderbird/Seamonkey handle each
>server separately, thus throwing the problem back at the user.
slrn can use the '-f article.number.file' option from the command line
as well as the '-h hostname' so it can be relatively versatile.
[photo stuff]
>> At the price, it's probably a reasonable trade-off.
>I figured that as the OfficeJet cost me $21, if I didn't like its
>photo printing, it would serve as a fax, copier, and sheet-fed
>scanner, and I'd still have enough money left to buy something
>better for photos.
Yup - I was looking at a photo quality inkjet about two years ago,
but found it hard to justify for the very few prints I actually would
be making. The ultra-cheap HP Deskjet that came with the last desktop
we bought will do in a pinch.
>> That's a point. Even buying genuine HP at WalMart is much less.
>The $20 for an HP 22 cartridge IS the usual retail price, at
>WalMart, Staples, Target, and everyplace else.
I don't use HP 22s, but I could swear that I'm paying less there than
at Staples.
>Starting with King Gillette. I know my HP CLJ5 was originally
>$7,500 but I never looked into the original prices of
>user-replaceable assemblies and toner, and whether they were
>"reasonable" or marked up as much as consumables are today.
Mine isn't a color, but the prices reflected HP quality - which is why
I almost bought the Tektronix at the time. For perspective, an LJ5 was
$1000-1300 in 1996, and the toner cartridge alone was ~$90 (supposed to
be good for 2-3000 pages).
>The beast has its faults, but I doubt anything currently in production
>for home or SOHO use can beat it on cost per page.
Well, it _was_ built like a tank. But if you bought it new, you had
to factor in that acquisition price as well. The HP LJ5 was a heck of
a lot cheaper, and using after-market consumables cut the prices even
more. We got it for the print quality, with a secondary of the speed
compared to the dot-matrix we were using.
["re-inking" tool]
>I remember seeing ads for those in 80-Micro, Byte, etc. along with
>discussions of print quality, longevity, etc. of re-inked ribbons,
>third-party ribbons and cartridges, OEM ribbons... a discussion
>that's still going on, although now it's about ink and toner.
I think I found that four or five re-inks is about the limit, as the
ribbon is starting to have problems by then. But I've still got a
good stash of paper, and the ribbons now retail at two or three times
the price they used to. At the other end, we used to have a 24 pin
Panasonic that could use film ribbons - the quality was excellent, but
the cost (and lack of speed) drove us to the LJ5.
>> I had a cheap Kodak box camera - I didn't get into 35 mm until I
>> got into the service.
>I had enough experience with my father's SLR so that I had no
>problem when I was given mine in 9th grade.
Mom and Dad really weren't interested in cameras - they had some form
of Kodak box thing - not even sure if they had a flash capability. The
better cameras were rationed in the service BX/PX, but the Edixa I
initially bought was (initially) overkill for me.
>Of the eight photos of mine I just hung up on my wall, two were taken
>when I was 16. I didn't get into darkroom work until I took that
>course in 2007, though.
That was where the base hobby shop was invaluable. The con-artist who
ran it was technically very good, and other members were all to ready
to critique your work - from the subject to the photographic style to
prints you may have made.
[runways]
>> If SWF is a starting or ending point, you have to gauge the
>> difficulty getting to/from the airport as compared to locally
>> generated traffic.
>I suppose anyone who lives or works north of NYC might find SWF
>easier to get to than one of the NYC-area airports. That would
>include people who'd otherwise go to ALB or BDL.
I think the real key is going to be how many destinations are reachable
from the competing airports. Right now SWF sucks as it only has
flights to FLL, MCO, ATL, DTW and PHL - so if you're going elsewhere
you want to consider the hassle of changing plane verses going to one
of the other airports.
>> I doubt they have room for more than a dozen gates, and even that
>> entails knocking down at least one existing hanger and maybe
>> widening the ramp.
>Well, nothing says it has to be as large as, or have all the
>facilities of, JFK/LGA/EWR.
"A" gate is no small thing. Even for something as small as a 737-200,
you're talking about (roughly) 130 foot square. But it behooves you to
build for larger aircraft (smaller wide-bodies like a A320 or 767) -
and that might mean 200-250 foot wide and 250-300 foot deep. That gate
is going to be "occupied" for an hour at a time, so something with a
ramp frontage of 750 feet (which appears to be more than what's there
now) is not very useful. Tripling that space would be sensible, but
even so, it's limiting. Remember also that gates tend to be airline
specific (In the '80s, SJC had two gates for United which effectively
limited them to ~8 flights a day - PSA had _four_ gates, because they
had flights to SAN, LAX and BUR, and Air California had even more.)
Also, a lot of people expect 'jetways' rather than walking out on the
ramp and up some portable stairs - especially in rainy/snowy weather.
[Vin Fiz and "Air & Space" magazine]
>Thanks, I'll look for it at the DCC library. That seems more likely
>to have it than the public libraries.
You know your library better than I - here, the city and county
libraries both have it. In a way, it's funny to see that Wilbur flat
stated that the coast-to-coast flight couldn't be done, and Orville
said there wasn't a plane in the world that wouldn't vibrate itself to
death in 1000 miles. True that was 1911, but less than five years
later, there were a number of aircraft capable of 500 miles non-stop.
>Classes start next week, and I'll be in "Lifetime Fitness and
>Wellness" as everything better was already full.
Probably useful just the same.
>I also picked up an exercise bike from Freecycle.
The advantage of an exercise bike is that you can ride one in air
conditioned comfort (we are under an "excessive heat warning" with
the daytime temps getting into the 115F/46C range). Even trying to
ride before work isn't easy as the 7AM temps are already into the
mid-80s or higher.
>Like all exercise bikes I know of, the energy expended/created just
>gets wasted. I'd like to see it get used somehow, maybe a generator
>that could recharge NiCd, NiMh, etc. batteries.
Most bike generators available now are severely undersized for that,
rated at less than 5 Watts. There were a number of WW2 setups where
the generator was of significant size - mainly used for rescue and
"spy" radios. Even those weren't that big (20-50 Watt maximums)
because the human doesn't generate a lot of power for any length of
time. Just look at the man powered flying machines ;-)
Oh, and my cron daemon reminds me to wish you a happy anniversary and
wish you more of the same. BTW, did you feel the 1:50 PM quake?
Old guy
Adam
> in the Usenet newsgroup alt.os.linux.mandriva, Adam wrote:
[news server filtering]
> As you note, some have filtering that isn't obvious.
I suppose it's the /lack/ of filtering that's more obvious, with the
spam, pointless crossposts, etc. showing up. I know e-s filters out
more than some others, but I suspect that many of their customers
just think that their NG isn't getting any of that sort of thing.
>> I use three news servers, plus two specialized ones (only that
>> organization's products)
>
> Overlapping groups?
Not many. Gmane's server carries what I assume are the entire gmane
and gwene hierarchies, and Mozilla's server carries what I assume
are the entire mozilla and netscape hierarchies. Both e-s and
Teranews only carry a few groups from there. Of course the Gmane
and Mozilla news servers carry only those hierarchies.
>>> Most newsreaders aren't happy with more than one set of article
>>> numbers per group.
>
> slrn can use the '-f article.number.file' option from the command line
> as well as the '-h hostname' so it can be relatively versatile.
But wouldn't that still mean looking through two article lists if
you subscribe to the same group from two servers?
[photo-quality printing]
> The ultra-cheap HP Deskjet that came with the last desktop
> we bought will do in a pinch.
I've found that cheap inkjets have nearly as good print quality as
more expensive ones. Their tradeoff is print speed and higher cost
of ink.
>> The $20 for an HP 22 cartridge IS the usual retail price, at
>> WalMart, Staples, Target, and everyplace else.
>
> I don't use HP 22s, but I could swear that I'm paying less there than
> at Staples.
I checked online, and they all want US$20 for an HP 22. When I had
the Canon i550, locally Target was cheapest by several bucks.
>> The [HP CLJ5] has its faults, but I doubt anything currently
>> in production for home or SOHO use can beat it on cost per page.
>
> Well, it _was_ built like a tank. But if you bought it new, you had
> to factor in that acquisition price as well.
Fortunately I didn't have to concern myself with that. One of the
LUG members was closing a colo center and moving out of state, and
was probably glad to have someone take the thing so he wouldn't have
to haul it to the dumpster. For my part, I was glad to acquire
something with such a low cost of consumables (eBay) and reliability.
[photo stuff]
My father was into photography from the mid-50s on. He started with
the legendary "brick" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argus_C3 and soon
traded it in for an SLR. I have my uncle's C3, and during
photography class I shot one roll with it. That made me realize
that IMO the best thing about that camera was that it could be
traded in for something better.
> That was where the base hobby shop was invaluable. The con-artist who
What was he trying to sell?
> ran it was technically very good, and other members were all to ready
> to critique your work - from the subject to the photographic style to
> prints you may have made.
As in "serious critique," or just derision? That was the one area I
felt my class (my section of it) was lacking; I would have liked
more on aesthetics, and more specifics on why some images were
better than others.
[runways]
> I think the real key is going to be how many destinations are reachable
> from the competing airports. Right now SWF sucks as it only has
> flights to FLL, MCO, ATL, DTW and PHL - so if you're going elsewhere
> you want to consider the hassle of changing plane verses going to one
> of the other airports.
I'd rather change planes than have to leave from (and return to)
some farther-away airport, especially now that there's no real
public transportation from here to the 3 NYC airports. I figure
that as long as SWF stays open, there's always a chance other
airlines and/or flights could be added.
>> Well, nothing says it has to be as large as, or have all the
>> facilities of, JFK/LGA/EWR.
>
> "A" gate is no small thing. Even for something as small as a 737-200,
> you're talking about (roughly) 130 foot square.
I don't know what flies into and out of SWF, but the planes I took
on American in '04 had a total of 3 seats across (1 + 2).
> Also, a lot of people expect 'jetways' rather than walking out on the
> ramp and up some portable stairs - especially in rainy/snowy weather.
SWF had those. I suppose with the ADA they're almost a requirement
now. The only times I remember the stairs outdoors were at Orlando
in '74 and HPN in '86-87.
[Vin Fiz and "Air & Space" magazine]
>> Thanks, I'll look for it at the DCC library. That seems more likely
>> to have it than the public libraries.
>
> You know your library better than I - here, the city and county
> libraries both have it.
I just checked online, and few public libraries around here get it.
DCC has an aviation program so they probably have "the usual"
magazines and reference books, whatever those are.
> In a way, it's funny to see that Wilbur flat
> stated that the coast-to-coast flight couldn't be done
What did he envision as uses for the airplane? Nearly a century
before, there were those insisting that railway passengers would be
unable to breathe if traveling at speeds over 20 MPH.
>> I also picked up an exercise bike from Freecycle.
>
> The advantage of an exercise bike is that you can ride one in air
> conditioned comfort
Or, around here, during cold or inclement weather. Also, few of the
roads around here have shoulders for bicycling.
> Oh, and my cron daemon reminds me to wish you a happy anniversary and
> wish you more of the same.
Thank you very much for remembering! The transplant center said I'm
doing "extremely well," and I'm also looking forward to more of the
same. (For those just tuning in, the 23rd was the 2nd anniversary
of my kidney transplant.) By coincidence, that was also the day
that I was volunteering at the booth at the county fair (also in
Rhinebeck) to recruit new donors.
> BTW, did you feel the 1:50 PM quake?
I happened to be driving at that moment so I didn't notice it, but I
heard about it at my 2:00 appointment -- it was definitely
noticeable in this area.
Adam
David W. Hodgins
> But wouldn't that still mean looking through two article lists if
> you subscribe to the same group from two servers?
No, if the newsreader handles it properly.
I use leafnode with eternal-september.org, and x-private.org.
It tries to get the same groups from both. If both are up, it
gets the messages from e-s, and filters out the msgs from
x-private, based on the message-ids. They both use cleanfeed,
so their is very little spam.
In opera, I am subscribed to leafnode, and news.opera.com.
Again, the messages are indexed by message-id, so I only
see the message once, even though they are available from
both.
Regards, Dave Hodgins
--
Change nomail.afraid.org to ody.ca to reply by email.
(nomail.afraid.org has been set up specifically for
use in usenet. Feel free to use it yourself.)
unruh
>
>>> I also picked up an exercise bike from Freecycle.
>>
>> The advantage of an exercise bike is that you can ride one in air
>> conditioned comfort
>
> Or, around here, during cold or inclement weather. Also, few of the
> roads around here have shoulders for bicycling.
You can also get a spinframe for your conventional bike (Ie, the bike
mounts on a stand, with the rear wheels riding on a resistance "fan"--
either air, or a fluid or magnetic eddy currents supplying the
resistance). That way you can use the bike that you have set up ideally
for your exercise, instead of the attrocious seats and stance of most
exercise bikes. And they are cheaper than an exercise bike.
Adam
> On Thu, 25 Aug 2011 03:47:10 -0400, Adam <ad...@address.invalid> wrote:
>
>> But wouldn't that still mean looking through two article lists if
>> you subscribe to the same group from two servers?
>
> No, if the newsreader handles it properly.
>
> I use leafnode with eternal-september.org, and x-private.org.
>
> It tries to get the same groups from both. If both are up, it
> gets the messages from e-s, and filters out the msgs from
> x-private, based on the message-ids.
Thanks for the explanation! I see it's really a matter of how each
newsreader is designed.
Some, like Pan and apparently Leafnode, can handle multiple servers
for the same newsgroup. Others, like Thunderbird/Seamonkey (what
I'm using for this post), handle each server separately. If I set
this up to use both eternal-september and Teranews and then
subscribed to this NG with both, I'd have to deal with the same list
of articles twice, or nearly the same depending on each's filtering.
Maybe that's one of the reasons there are so many newsreaders out there!
Adam
Adam
Thanks, Bill! That's exactly what I had in mind, until I found this
exercise bike on Freecycle. I may still get one of those to attach
to my regular bicycle if this one I just got isn't working out well
for me.
Adam