Debian Jessie with reiserfs

[John F. Morse]

Debian seems to have dropped reiserfs from the choices of support (using the
Expert text Install).

I have a large /home in a reiserfs partition and would like to access it to
save files (they were first rsynced to another computer, so they are not "lost").

This work is due to fatal issues on booting where the previous Ubuntu 14.04
system fails after a "do-upgrade-release" to 16.04. I much prefer Debian, and
will be moving all the Ubuntu systems whenever there is a need.

The new "Debian 8.7.1 amd64 1" was installed in sda1 as ext4 (it appears as
ext3 in gparted). Seems to work OK, but I'd like to re-do it using reiserfs.

Are the Debian developers dropping reiserfs (and reiser4) because Reiser,
being locked up, is no longer available for updates?

Or is there a drop-in support package for reiserfs available to add to the
Debian installer so it can be used like it was for older Debian releases?


--
John

When a person has -- whether they knew it or not -- already
rejected the Truth, by what means do they discern a lie?

[Pascal Hambourg]

Le 16/02/2017 à 15:36, John F. Morse a écrit :
> Debian seems to have dropped reiserfs from the choices of support (using the
> Expert text Install).

Indeed it appears that reiserfs support has been remove from the Debian
installer before Debian 8/Jessie was released.

> I have a large /home in a reiserfs partition and would like to access it to
> save files (they were first rsynced to another computer, so they are not "lost").

The Debian system still supports reiserfs though.
Why do you need the installer to support it ?

> The new "Debian 8.7.1 amd64 1" was installed in sda1 as ext4 (it appears as
> ext3 in gparted). Seems to work OK, but I'd like to re-do it using reiserfs.

Why ? You don't need it to mount your existing reiserfs filesystem.

> Are the Debian developers dropping reiserfs (and reiser4) because Reiser,
> being locked up, is no longer available for updates?

I guess reiserfs is just considered obsolete. AFAIK reiser4 never made
it to the mainline kernel.

> Or is there a drop-in support package for reiserfs available to add to the
> Debian installer so it can be used like it was for older Debian releases?

AFAICS, no.

[John F. Morse]

On 02/17/2017 01:05 PM, Pascal Hambourg wrote:
> Le 16/02/2017 à 15:36, John F. Morse a écrit :
>> Debian seems to have dropped reiserfs from the choices of support (using the
>> Expert text Install).
>
> Indeed it appears that reiserfs support has been remove from the Debian
> installer before Debian 8/Jessie was released.
>
>> I have a large /home in a reiserfs partition and would like to access it to
>> save files (they were first rsynced to another computer, so they are not
>> "lost").
>
> The Debian system still supports reiserfs though.
> Why do you need the installer to support it ?

It apparently does not recognize reiserfs unless I have loaded the Installer
Components:

Load Installer Components :
portmem-reiserfs
reiserfs-modules

That portion is no longer available using the

Installer boot menu : Advanced Options
Expert Install

>> The new "Debian 8.7.1 amd64 1" was installed in sda1 as ext4 (it appears as
>> ext3 in gparted). Seems to work OK, but I'd like to re-do it using reiserfs.
>
> Why ? You don't need it to mount your existing reiserfs filesystem.

One of the two reiserfs partitions will not mount.

>> Are the Debian developers dropping reiserfs (and reiser4) because Reiser,
>> being locked up, is no longer available for updates?
>
> I guess reiserfs is just considered obsolete. AFAIK reiser4 never made it to
> the mainline kernel.
>
>> Or is there a drop-in support package for reiserfs available to add to the
>> Debian installer so it can be used like it was for older Debian releases?
>
> AFAICS, no.

I'll poke around in the individual packages for portmem-reiserfs and
reiserfs-modules and/or grab them from a Wheezy box.

Thanks for your comments.

[Pascal Hambourg]

Le 17/02/2017 à 23:53, John F. Morse a écrit :
> On 02/17/2017 01:05 PM, Pascal Hambourg wrote:
>> Le 16/02/2017 à 15:36, John F. Morse a écrit :
>>> Debian seems to have dropped reiserfs from the choices of support (using the
>>> Expert text Install).
>>
>> Indeed it appears that reiserfs support has been remove from the Debian
>> installer before Debian 8/Jessie was released.
>>
>>> I have a large /home in a reiserfs partition and would like to access it to
>>> save files (they were first rsynced to another computer, so they are not
>>> "lost").
>>
>> The Debian system still supports reiserfs though.
>> Why do you need the installer to support it ?
>
> It apparently does not recognize reiserfs unless I have loaded the Installer
> Components:
>
> Load Installer Components :
> portmem-reiserfs
> reiserfs-modules

That does not answer my question : why do you need the installer to
support reiserfs ? You don't need it to install a system that is able to
mount reiserfs filesystems, and you don't need to mount a filesystem at
install time to be able to mount it in the installed system.

>>> The new "Debian 8.7.1 amd64 1" was installed in sda1 as ext4 (it appears as
>>> ext3 in gparted). Seems to work OK, but I'd like to re-do it using reiserfs.
>>
>> Why ? You don't need it to mount your existing reiserfs filesystem.
>
> One of the two reiserfs partitions will not mount.

You only mentionned one reiserfs partition previously.
Also, what do you mean exactly ? No reiserfs filesystem can be mounted
in the Debian installer. However an installed Debian system should mount
any clean reiserfs filesystem, whatever filesystem type the system was
installed on. Hence my question.

[Aragorn]

On Saturday 18 February 2017 10:22, Pascal Hambourg conveyed the
following to alt.os.linux.debian...

> Le 17/02/2017 à 23:53, John F. Morse a écrit :
>
>> On 02/17/2017 01:05 PM, Pascal Hambourg wrote:
>>
>>> Le 16/02/2017 à 15:36, John F. Morse a écrit :
>>>
>>>> I have a large /home in a reiserfs partition and would like to
>>>> access it to save files (they were first rsynced to another
>>>> computer, so they are not "lost").
>>>
>>> The Debian system still supports reiserfs though.
>>> Why do you need the installer to support it ?
>>
>> It apparently does not recognize reiserfs unless I have loaded the
>> Installer Components:
>>
>> Load Installer Components :
>> portmem-reiserfs
>> reiserfs-modules
>
> That does not answer my question : why do you need the installer to
> support reiserfs ? You don't need it to install a system that is able
> to mount reiserfs filesystems, and you don't need to mount a
> filesystem at install time to be able to mount it in the installed
> system.

With the disclaimer that I don't know how Debian does things these days,
I have personally experienced ─ and in multiple releases ─ that
RedHat/CentOS refuses to install any part of the system on anything
other than the "recommended" type of filesystem.

Not only did the partitioning tool refuse to create anything other than
that, but it also would not allow the system to be installed on
filesystems that had already been created beforehand if these were not
of the "recommended" type. At the time, I was trying to get CentOS
installed on a server with reiserfs partitions, and once on another
server with XFS partitions, but it refused to install in anything other
than ext3.

Like I said, I don't know how Debian does it these days ─ I don't
currently have any Debian-based systems here ─ so your mileage may vary.

--
= Aragorn =

[John F. Morse]

On 02/18/2017 03:22 AM, Pascal Hambourg wrote:
> Le 17/02/2017 à 23:53, John F. Morse a écrit :
>> On 02/17/2017 01:05 PM, Pascal Hambourg wrote:
>>> Le 16/02/2017 à 15:36, John F. Morse a écrit :
>>>> Debian seems to have dropped reiserfs from the choices of support (using the
>>>> Expert text Install).
>>>
>>> Indeed it appears that reiserfs support has been remove from the Debian
>>> installer before Debian 8/Jessie was released.
>>>
>>>> I have a large /home in a reiserfs partition and would like to access it to
>>>> save files (they were first rsynced to another computer, so they are not
>>>> "lost").
>>>
>>> The Debian system still supports reiserfs though.
>>> Why do you need the installer to support it ?
>>
>> It apparently does not recognize reiserfs unless I have loaded the Installer
>> Components:
>>
>> Load Installer Components :
>> portmem-reiserfs
>> reiserfs-modules
>
> That does not answer my question : why do you need the installer to support
> reiserfs ? You don't need it to install a system that is able to mount
> reiserfs filesystems, and you don't need to mount a filesystem at install
> time to be able to mount it in the installed system.

I thought the question asking was my position. IOW, I was looking for answers,
not to pass a test, etc.

Just to satisfy your curiosity, if you can't use the Debian installer to
install a Debian distro into a reiserfs, what could you use?

Remember, the horse goes before the cart.

>>>> The new "Debian 8.7.1 amd64 1" was installed in sda1 as ext4 (it appears as
>>>> ext3 in gparted). Seems to work OK, but I'd like to re-do it using reiserfs.
>>>
>>> Why ? You don't need it to mount your existing reiserfs filesystem.
>>
>> One of the two reiserfs partitions will not mount.
>
> You only mentionned one reiserfs partition previously.
> Also, what do you mean exactly ? No reiserfs filesystem can be mounted in
> the Debian installer. However an installed Debian system should mount any
> clean reiserfs filesystem, whatever filesystem type the system was installed
> on. Hence my question.

Again, you do not understand the Debian installer.

[Pascal Hambourg]

Le 19/02/2017 à 22:51, John F. Morse a écrit :
> On 02/18/2017 03:22 AM, Pascal Hambourg wrote:
>>
>> That does not answer my question : why do you need the installer to support
>> reiserfs ? You don't need it to install a system that is able to mount
>> reiserfs filesystems, and you don't need to mount a filesystem at install
>> time to be able to mount it in the installed system.
>
> I thought the question asking was my position. IOW, I was looking for answers,
> not to pass a test, etc.

I am just trying to understand your needs.

In your original post you wrote :

"I have a large /home in a reiserfs partition and would like to access
it to save files"

Doing this does not involve any challenge. Any installed Debian system
can do it.

And you added :

"I'd like to re-do it using reiserfs."

It appears this cannot be done with the Debian installer. But you do not
need to install on reiserfs to access files on reiserfs.

> Just to satisfy your curiosity, if you can't use the Debian installer to
> install a Debian distro into a reiserfs, what could you use?

I guess I would try with debootstrap.

>> You only mentionned one reiserfs partition previously.
>> Also, what do you mean exactly ? No reiserfs filesystem can be mounted in
>> the Debian installer. However an installed Debian system should mount any
>> clean reiserfs filesystem, whatever filesystem type the system was installed
>> on. Hence my question.
>
> Again, you do not understand the Debian installer.

I don't understand what you /really/ want to achieve.

[John F. Morse]

Maybe I was a little too stingy with my information. I thought I had provided
enough but maybe not for every reader, especially when trying to cross from
English to another language more familiar to a reader.

Let me rehash it....

The original installation was Ubuntu 10.0.4. Last week I upgraded it from
14.04 LTS to 16.04 LTS using the do-release-upgrade while online. This is the
recommended method.

It worked for previous release upgrades, such as up to the 14.04 release on
that PC, and on a few others likely from 12.04 and earlier on several Ubuntu PCs.

All filesystems were and are reiserfs. This filesystem was created during the
original installs, for Ubuntu and Debian.

Why Reiser? I run a Usenet server farm, and the reiserfs was faster than ext2
when I built the multi-server farm. Reiserfs has never lost one bit, and I can
say I've never had a Linux system crash. I have no reason to change the
multiple PCs now, which would be a big job.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ReiserFS#Performance

I also run HTTP and mail servers, and am a believer in "if it ain't broke,
don't fix it!" I'm 72, have forgotten a lot of what I once knew, and don't
care to start over building systems just to keep up with progress.

Some of these Ubuntu PCs were changed to Debian in the past, using the minimal
or small optical media installation method (not from the complete set of
dozens of CDs/DVDs). Debian calls it the Network Install, "
https://www.debian.org/CD/live/index.en.html " This time specifically from the
downloaded CD created from the "debian-8.7.1-amd64-netinst.iso" image (in case
the reiserfs omission was in an earlier Debian 8 release).

I use the Advanced Options then select Expert Install in the Installer Boot
Menu, where the first 18 or so lines are:

Installer boot menu : Advanced Options
Expert Install

Choose language : English
Area : US
LOCALE : en.US.UTF-8
No additional locales
Keyboard layout : PC-Style
Keymap : American English
Detect and mount CD-ROM
Keep usb-storage kernel module
PCMCIA : Blank
Load Installer Components :
Choose Mirror
portmem-reiserfs
reiserfs-modules
Detect Network Hardware
Configure the Network
Auto-configure with DHCP? : No

Specifically these two lines (taken from a Debian 6.0.2.1 installation log)
were not available on the debian-8.7.1-amd64-netinst CD:

portmem-reiserfs
reiserfs-modules

Without these the reiserfs cannot be installed from this media for a new system.

I could have used something like a GParted_live CD to partition the hard drive
for reiserfs, then reboot using the debian-8.7.1-amd64-netinst, CD but without
those two reiserfs installer components shown above, I doubt that the Debian
installer would have recognized the partition(s).

I did try but could not progress beyond the partitioning screen without
choosing a filesystem that was offered. Both the reiserfs and reiser4 were not
on the list.

So I chose the next-best which was ext3/ext4, and only for the root (/)
partition, knowing I didn't need anything from the previous Ubuntu system,
except for data in the separate /home partition (a reiserfs partition).

Accessing files on the reiserfs partition is not the issue. I can do that, and
have done that.

I also have the /home partition backed up (with rsync) to another Ubuntu
8.04/4 PC in the basement. It has a 1.5 TB HDD. Plus I have copied the whole
/home directory up to this Debian 7.11, which sits next to the Debian 8.7.1,
making work easier.

Pascal, I have what I need, so there is no reason to continue this discussion.
Unless you can point me to documentation that announces the end of reiserfs
support in Debian 8, or one of the point releases, and why they decided to
drop reiserfs. Perhaps it was an unintended omission, a bug in the Debian
installer, or whatever, and maybe will be reinstated in a later release. My
guess is since Hans Reiser is behind bars, and Namesys is no longer, Debian
felt that there would be no path for upgrades in the future.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Namesys

I've also located some information that I will check out for a future system
upgrade:

https://www.debian.org/releases/stable/amd64/ch03s05.html.en

https://www.debian.org/releases/stable/amd64/apds03.html.en

Thanks for your offer to assist, and have a nice week.

[Pascal Hambourg]

Le 20/02/2017 à 22:14, John F. Morse a écrit :
>
> Some of these Ubuntu PCs were changed to Debian in the past, using the minimal
> or small optical media installation method (not from the complete set of
> dozens of CDs/DVDs). Debian calls it the Network Install, "
> https://www.debian.org/CD/live/index.en.html " This time specifically from the
> downloaded CD created from the "debian-8.7.1-amd64-netinst.iso" image (in case
> the reiserfs omission was in an earlier Debian 8 release).

It appears that reiserfs was removed from the Debian installer before
Jessie became stable.

> Specifically these two lines (taken from a Debian 6.0.2.1 installation log)
> were not available on the debian-8.7.1-amd64-netinst CD:
>
> portmem-reiserfs
> reiserfs-modules

I guess you mean partman-reiserfs.

> Without these the reiserfs cannot be installed from this media for a new system.

Indeed.

> I could have used something like a GParted_live CD to partition the hard drive
> for reiserfs, then reboot using the debian-8.7.1-amd64-netinst, CD but without
> those two reiserfs installer components shown above, I doubt that the Debian
> installer would have recognized the partition(s).

Indeed.

> I did try but could not progress beyond the partitioning screen without
> choosing a filesystem that was offered. Both the reiserfs and reiser4 were not
> on the list.

Without partman-reiserfs, this was expected.
As I wrote, the only way I can see it to install Debian 8 with
debootstrap from a system which can mount reiserfs.

> Unless you can point me to documentation that announces the end of reiserfs
> support in Debian 8, or one of the point releases, and why they decided to
> drop reiserfs.

<https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=717236>
<https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=717517>

Quote :
|* udeb: Remove obsolete and unsupported drivers and filesystems
| - Remove ppa from scsi-modules
| - Remove floppy-modules, irda-modules, parport-modules, plip-modules,
| qnx4-modules, reiserfs-modules, ufs-modules
^^^^^^^^