info
Google Groups no longer supports new Usenet posts or subscriptions. Historical content remains viewable.
Dismiss
Steven Hill, 94, actor (Law & Order; pre-Jim Phelps Mission: Impossible)
131 views
Skip to first unread message
That Derek
Aug 23, 2016, 11:44:02 AM8/23/16
to
Wikipedia is reporting the death of actor STEVEN HILL, 84, on 08/23/2016:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steven_Hill
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steven_Hill
Adam H. Kerman
Aug 23, 2016, 12:01:02 PM8/23/16
to
That Derek <that...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>Wikipedia is reporting the death of actor STEVEN HILL, 84, on 08/23/2016:
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steven_Hill
Could you rephrase that?
>Wikipedia is reporting the death of actor STEVEN HILL, 84, on 08/23/2016:
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steven_Hill
Wikipedia isn't a news service. It doesn't have reporters. It's self
edited. All they have is the update someone made to a Web page that
fails to provide a source.
Wikipedia is filled with errors and misleading or ambiguous statements
because of the self-editing feature. The article problems can continue
to exist for years. If the person making the article update couldn't
be bothered to provide a citation for the obituary he read, he shouldn't
have had privileges to update the Web page.
This isn't journalism by any standard and I object to posting this
without strongly questioning its credibility. That it may ultimately
prove not to be libelous (after all, everybody dies eventually) doesn't
change the fact that it's not any kind of news report and no one reading
it should accept it as factual.
MJ Emigh
Aug 23, 2016, 12:18:08 PM8/23/16
to
On Tuesday, August 23, 2016 at 11:01:02 AM UTC-5, Adam H. Kerman wrote:
doesn't change the fact that it's not any kind of news report and no one reading
> it should accept it as factual.
He's still dead.
doesn't change the fact that it's not any kind of news report and no one reading
> it should accept it as factual.
A Friend
Aug 23, 2016, 12:19:45 PM8/23/16
to
In article <5f61e3e1-affc-4842...@googlegroups.com>,
http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/news/headlines-breaking-stories/454998/pe
tira-of-r-shlomo-steven-hill-zl-updated.html
That Derek <that...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Wikipedia is reporting the death of actor STEVEN HILL, 84, on 08/23/2016:
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steven_Hill
Obit here, along with info about services:
> Wikipedia is reporting the death of actor STEVEN HILL, 84, on 08/23/2016:
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steven_Hill
http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/news/headlines-breaking-stories/454998/pe
tira-of-r-shlomo-steven-hill-zl-updated.html
Adam H. Kerman
Aug 23, 2016, 1:03:38 PM8/23/16
to
and forging an email address from a domain you're not associate with
certainly enhances your credibility. As always, I appreciate the followup.
Adam H. Kerman
Aug 23, 2016, 1:09:31 PM8/23/16
to
A Friend wrote:
>That Derek <that...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>Wikipedia is reporting the death of actor STEVEN HILL, 84, on 08/23/2016:
>>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steven_Hill
>Obit here, along with info about services:
>http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/news/headlines-breaking-stories/454998/petira-of-r-shlomo-steven-hill-zl-updated.html
Shlomo? His IMDb bio says he was born Solomon Krakovsky. King Solomon
>That Derek <that...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>Wikipedia is reporting the death of actor STEVEN HILL, 84, on 08/23/2016:
>>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steven_Hill
>Obit here, along with info about services:
>http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/news/headlines-breaking-stories/454998/petira-of-r-shlomo-steven-hill-zl-updated.html
was also called Shlomo, so I guess that fits.
Sarah Ehrett
Aug 23, 2016, 1:28:19 PM8/23/16
to
Sarah Ehrett
Aug 23, 2016, 1:35:31 PM8/23/16
to
wouldn't have hurt, eh Pet?
Cheers.
That Derek
Aug 23, 2016, 2:06:49 PM8/23/16
to
Talk about making a mountain out of a Steve Hill (OK, that was forced).
>> Wikipedia is filled with errors and misleading or ambiguous statements
because of the self-editing feature.
That is why when a full-fledged journalism obit has not yet been made manifest I post "Wikipedia is reporting..." I am totally aware of Wikipedia's tentativeness. Thus, when such a situation arises, I exempt the lack of a legit obit with "Wikipedia is reporting..." Also, when I post a link, I usually cut-'n'-paste its contents; however, when Wikipedia is the only source, I refuse to do so -- in the event such reportage turns out to be a "faux-bituary."
Here's a LEGIT obit for Steven Hill from "The Hollywood Reporter":
http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/steven-hill-dead-law-order-880765
Steven Hill, District Attorney Adam Schiff on 'Law & Order,' Dies at 94
9:25 AM PDT 8/23/2016
by Chris Koseluk
Also known for his work on the stage and on 'Mission: Impossible,' Hill "was not only one of the truly great actors of his generation, he was one of the most intelligent people I have ever met," said Dick Wolf.
Steven Hill, the stoic actor who was an original castmember on both the 1960s iconic television series Mission: Impossible and the ground-breaking 1990s drama Law & Order, died Tuesday. He was 94.
Hill, who began his career on the New York stage and went on to build an impressive list of film and television credits that spanned more than five decades, died in Monsey, N.Y., his son, Rabbi Yehoshua Hill, told The Hollywood Reporter.
"Steven was not only one of the truly great actors of his generation, he was one of the most intelligent people I have ever met," said Law & Order creator Dick Wolf in a statement. "He is also the only actor I've known who consistently tried to cut his own lines. He will be missed but fortunately he can be seen ubiquitously on Law & Order reruns."
When Mission: Impossible debuted in 1966 on CBS, it was Hill, as Daniel Briggs, who originally led the covert Impossible Missions Force. IMF was known for taking on government assignments that were so classified, the Secretary would disavow any knowledge of their actions if a member were caught or killed.
Briggs also was the first to hear the show's iconic catchphrase, "This tape will self-destruct in five seconds." But in the pilot episode, he actually received his mission on an LP and was told, "As usual, this recording will decompose one minute after the breaking of the seal."
Nearly a quarter-century later, Hill made his mark in Law & Order as no-nonsense District Attorney Adam Schiff. Starting with the show's debut on NBC in 1990, Hill anchored the legal side of the long-running procedural for its first 10 seasons.
Said to be loosely modeled after real life New York District Attorney Robert Morgenthau, Schiff’s primary duty was to keep his maverick staff of attorneys, which included Jack McCoy (Sam Waterston), Abbie Carmichael (Angie Harmon) and Ben Stone (Michael Moriarty), from bending the law in their pursuit of justice.
Hill, though, perhaps was at his best on the stage. One of the original members of The Actors Studio, the renowned New York school founded in 1947, Hill was a standout among such fellow performers as Montgomery Clift, Julie Harris and Marlon Brando.
As Martin Landau recalled in the book Ball of Fire: The Tumultuous Life and Comic Art of Lucille Ball: “When I first became an actor, there were two young actors in New York: Marlon Brando and Steven Hill. A lot of people said that Steven would have been the one, not Marlon. He was legendary. Nuts, volatile, mad, and his work was exciting.”
Born Solomon Krakovsky in Seattle, Hill was first struck by the acting bug when he saw his sister perform in a talent contest. ''I saw her onstage and I thought, 'I wouldn't mind that, all those people looking at me, the spotlight shining on me,' " he told The New York Times in a 1983 interview. "' That could be fun.' ''
After serving a four-year stint in the Navy during World War II, Hill headed to New York in pursuit of that fun. He landed his first role in the 1946 production of Ben Hecht’s A Flag Is Born, which advocated for the creation of the state of Israel. His character was known only as 1st Soldier. Hill also understudied Brando. Other notables in the cast include Paul Muni, Jonathan Harris and William Allyn.
It was Hill’s second gig that convinced him he could make it as an actor. In 1948, he was cast in the original stage production of Mr. Roberts in the role of the sailor Stefanowski. With Henry Fonda as the title character, the play enjoyed more than 1,100 performances before closing in 1951.
As Hill recounted in a 1996 New York Times interview, “The director, Joshua Logan, thought I had some ability, and he let me create one of the scenes. So I improvised dialogue and it went in the show. That was my first endorsement. It gave me tremendous encouragement to stay in the business."
From Mr. Roberts, Hill segued into productions of Sundown Beach, The Lady From the Sea and The Country Girl. He made his film debut in A Lady Without Passport (1950).
Though he was getting good reviews, Hill also was realizing what the term “starving actor” meant. He decided to re-enlist in the Navy for another two-year term and reassess his career choice.
When he did return to acting in 1952, Hill focused on the emerging medium of television. He worked steadily, appearing in just about every theater anthology on the air during the decade. He also landed key roles in the films The Goddess (1958) and Kiss Her Goodbye (1959).
In 1961, Hill returned to Broadway for what is considered his most notable stage performance, playing Sigmund Freud in A Far Country. In one scene, Kim Stanley, playing Freud's patient, would scream at the doctor, “You’re a Jew!” The experience prodded Hill to reexamine his own religious beliefs.
“When she would let loose this blast, I would take it. And in the pause that followed, I would think, 'What about this?' And I was provoked to explore my religion,'' Hill remembered in the 1983 Times story. ''I slowly became aware that there was something more profound going on in the world than just plays and movies and TV shows.''
As a result, Hill became an Orthodox Jew — a decision that would impact his career. As observing Shabbat made him unavailable for Friday night or Saturday matinee performances, his stage career was essentially over. He also lost movie roles, most notably a lead in The Sand Pebbles (1966).
Television was more accommodating. Throughout the early 1960s, Hill’s TV credits continued to expand and included appearances on Route 66, Dr. Kildare, The Untouchables, Naked City, Ben Casey, Rawhide and The Fugitive. He also was in the films A Child is Waiting (1963) and The Slender Thread (1965).
And then he landed Mission: Impossible. Though he enjoyed the challenges of the series’ complex storylines, there was a conflict from the beginning. The executives at CBS, who had picked up the program, were not thrilled by his casting. The feeling was he was not commercial enough to be the lead. But series creator Bruce Geller wanted Hill and fought for him. Geller also found an ally in Lucille Ball, who was then head of Desilu, the production company producing the series. Ball’s clout got Hill the job.
Ultimately, it was Hill who gave the CBS suits a reason not to renew his contract. The actor had agreed to star as IMF’s leader on the condition that he could adhere to the tenets of his religion. As the season worn on, the difficult shooting schedule often resulted in delays and overruns, many times into Friday night when Hill wasn’t available. The more days he missed, the more the network complained.
Mission: Impossible was a hit and renewed for a second season. Hill wasn’t. He was replaced by Peter Graves as Jim Phelps. Graves stayed with the series until its end in 1973. Daniel Briggs was not mentioned during the remaining six seasons.
Hill didn’t work as an actor for the next 10 years. He tried his hand at selling real estate and attempted to write. For a time, he lived in a community of religious Jews in New York's Rockland County.
But Hill couldn’t resist the lure of acting and returned in 1977 with a role on the TV series The Andros Targets. This was followed by the miniseries King and then a steady stream of film parts in It’s My Turn (1980), Eyewitness (1981), Rich and Famous (1981), Yentl (1983), Teachers (1984), Garbo Talks (1984), Raw Deal (1986), Legal Eagles (1986), Heartburn (1986), Brighton Beach Memoirs (1986), Running on Empty (1988), White Palace (1990) and The Firm (1993).
In between films, he sprinkled in television appearances on One Life to Live, Columbo, Thirtysomething, Between Two Women and Equal Justice.
While in production on the film Billy Bathgate (1991), Hill got word of a series called Law & Order. "The whole concept of that title hit me," Hill said.
When the pilot filmed in 1988, Hill’s character wasn’t in the story. Instead, it featured Roy Thinnes as District Attorney Alfred Wentworth. Law & Order got the green light in 1990. But Thinnes opted to accept a more prominent role in a reboot of Dark Shadows. Hill was cast as Schiff. The pilot episode "Everybody's Favorite Bagman," featuring Thinnes, aired as the sixth episode of Law & Order’s first season.
While Dark Shadows was canceled after one season, Hill played Schiff for more than 225 episodes. "There's a certain positive statement in this show," he said in the 1996 Times feature. "So much is negative today. The positive must be stated to rescue us from pandemonium. To me it lies in that principle: law and order."
When he decided to leave Law & Order in 2000, Hill was the longest-running regular cast member on the show. When it ended its run in 2010, only three others had logged more episodes — Waterston, S. Epatha Merkerson and Jerry Orbach. The role earned Hill two Emmy nominations for outstanding actor in a drama series. The character also appeared in a 2000 episode of Law & Order: Special Victims Unit.
Hill retired after leaving Law & Order, though in 2002, he was lured back to the camera for a series of commercials as the spokesperson for the online investment firm TD Waterhouse.
In 1951, Hill married Selma Stern. The couple had four children before divorcing in 1964. Years later, Stern went on to an acting career of her own, appearing in Nutty Professor II: The Klumps (2000), Bruce Almighty (2003) and Made of Honor (2008).
Remarried in 1967, Hill is survived by his second wife Rachel. The couple had five children.
>> Wikipedia is filled with errors and misleading or ambiguous statements
because of the self-editing feature.
Here's a LEGIT obit for Steven Hill from "The Hollywood Reporter":
http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/steven-hill-dead-law-order-880765
Steven Hill, District Attorney Adam Schiff on 'Law & Order,' Dies at 94
9:25 AM PDT 8/23/2016
by Chris Koseluk
Also known for his work on the stage and on 'Mission: Impossible,' Hill "was not only one of the truly great actors of his generation, he was one of the most intelligent people I have ever met," said Dick Wolf.
Steven Hill, the stoic actor who was an original castmember on both the 1960s iconic television series Mission: Impossible and the ground-breaking 1990s drama Law & Order, died Tuesday. He was 94.
Hill, who began his career on the New York stage and went on to build an impressive list of film and television credits that spanned more than five decades, died in Monsey, N.Y., his son, Rabbi Yehoshua Hill, told The Hollywood Reporter.
"Steven was not only one of the truly great actors of his generation, he was one of the most intelligent people I have ever met," said Law & Order creator Dick Wolf in a statement. "He is also the only actor I've known who consistently tried to cut his own lines. He will be missed but fortunately he can be seen ubiquitously on Law & Order reruns."
When Mission: Impossible debuted in 1966 on CBS, it was Hill, as Daniel Briggs, who originally led the covert Impossible Missions Force. IMF was known for taking on government assignments that were so classified, the Secretary would disavow any knowledge of their actions if a member were caught or killed.
Briggs also was the first to hear the show's iconic catchphrase, "This tape will self-destruct in five seconds." But in the pilot episode, he actually received his mission on an LP and was told, "As usual, this recording will decompose one minute after the breaking of the seal."
Nearly a quarter-century later, Hill made his mark in Law & Order as no-nonsense District Attorney Adam Schiff. Starting with the show's debut on NBC in 1990, Hill anchored the legal side of the long-running procedural for its first 10 seasons.
Said to be loosely modeled after real life New York District Attorney Robert Morgenthau, Schiff’s primary duty was to keep his maverick staff of attorneys, which included Jack McCoy (Sam Waterston), Abbie Carmichael (Angie Harmon) and Ben Stone (Michael Moriarty), from bending the law in their pursuit of justice.
Hill, though, perhaps was at his best on the stage. One of the original members of The Actors Studio, the renowned New York school founded in 1947, Hill was a standout among such fellow performers as Montgomery Clift, Julie Harris and Marlon Brando.
As Martin Landau recalled in the book Ball of Fire: The Tumultuous Life and Comic Art of Lucille Ball: “When I first became an actor, there were two young actors in New York: Marlon Brando and Steven Hill. A lot of people said that Steven would have been the one, not Marlon. He was legendary. Nuts, volatile, mad, and his work was exciting.”
Born Solomon Krakovsky in Seattle, Hill was first struck by the acting bug when he saw his sister perform in a talent contest. ''I saw her onstage and I thought, 'I wouldn't mind that, all those people looking at me, the spotlight shining on me,' " he told The New York Times in a 1983 interview. "' That could be fun.' ''
After serving a four-year stint in the Navy during World War II, Hill headed to New York in pursuit of that fun. He landed his first role in the 1946 production of Ben Hecht’s A Flag Is Born, which advocated for the creation of the state of Israel. His character was known only as 1st Soldier. Hill also understudied Brando. Other notables in the cast include Paul Muni, Jonathan Harris and William Allyn.
It was Hill’s second gig that convinced him he could make it as an actor. In 1948, he was cast in the original stage production of Mr. Roberts in the role of the sailor Stefanowski. With Henry Fonda as the title character, the play enjoyed more than 1,100 performances before closing in 1951.
As Hill recounted in a 1996 New York Times interview, “The director, Joshua Logan, thought I had some ability, and he let me create one of the scenes. So I improvised dialogue and it went in the show. That was my first endorsement. It gave me tremendous encouragement to stay in the business."
From Mr. Roberts, Hill segued into productions of Sundown Beach, The Lady From the Sea and The Country Girl. He made his film debut in A Lady Without Passport (1950).
Though he was getting good reviews, Hill also was realizing what the term “starving actor” meant. He decided to re-enlist in the Navy for another two-year term and reassess his career choice.
When he did return to acting in 1952, Hill focused on the emerging medium of television. He worked steadily, appearing in just about every theater anthology on the air during the decade. He also landed key roles in the films The Goddess (1958) and Kiss Her Goodbye (1959).
In 1961, Hill returned to Broadway for what is considered his most notable stage performance, playing Sigmund Freud in A Far Country. In one scene, Kim Stanley, playing Freud's patient, would scream at the doctor, “You’re a Jew!” The experience prodded Hill to reexamine his own religious beliefs.
“When she would let loose this blast, I would take it. And in the pause that followed, I would think, 'What about this?' And I was provoked to explore my religion,'' Hill remembered in the 1983 Times story. ''I slowly became aware that there was something more profound going on in the world than just plays and movies and TV shows.''
As a result, Hill became an Orthodox Jew — a decision that would impact his career. As observing Shabbat made him unavailable for Friday night or Saturday matinee performances, his stage career was essentially over. He also lost movie roles, most notably a lead in The Sand Pebbles (1966).
Television was more accommodating. Throughout the early 1960s, Hill’s TV credits continued to expand and included appearances on Route 66, Dr. Kildare, The Untouchables, Naked City, Ben Casey, Rawhide and The Fugitive. He also was in the films A Child is Waiting (1963) and The Slender Thread (1965).
And then he landed Mission: Impossible. Though he enjoyed the challenges of the series’ complex storylines, there was a conflict from the beginning. The executives at CBS, who had picked up the program, were not thrilled by his casting. The feeling was he was not commercial enough to be the lead. But series creator Bruce Geller wanted Hill and fought for him. Geller also found an ally in Lucille Ball, who was then head of Desilu, the production company producing the series. Ball’s clout got Hill the job.
Ultimately, it was Hill who gave the CBS suits a reason not to renew his contract. The actor had agreed to star as IMF’s leader on the condition that he could adhere to the tenets of his religion. As the season worn on, the difficult shooting schedule often resulted in delays and overruns, many times into Friday night when Hill wasn’t available. The more days he missed, the more the network complained.
Mission: Impossible was a hit and renewed for a second season. Hill wasn’t. He was replaced by Peter Graves as Jim Phelps. Graves stayed with the series until its end in 1973. Daniel Briggs was not mentioned during the remaining six seasons.
Hill didn’t work as an actor for the next 10 years. He tried his hand at selling real estate and attempted to write. For a time, he lived in a community of religious Jews in New York's Rockland County.
But Hill couldn’t resist the lure of acting and returned in 1977 with a role on the TV series The Andros Targets. This was followed by the miniseries King and then a steady stream of film parts in It’s My Turn (1980), Eyewitness (1981), Rich and Famous (1981), Yentl (1983), Teachers (1984), Garbo Talks (1984), Raw Deal (1986), Legal Eagles (1986), Heartburn (1986), Brighton Beach Memoirs (1986), Running on Empty (1988), White Palace (1990) and The Firm (1993).
In between films, he sprinkled in television appearances on One Life to Live, Columbo, Thirtysomething, Between Two Women and Equal Justice.
While in production on the film Billy Bathgate (1991), Hill got word of a series called Law & Order. "The whole concept of that title hit me," Hill said.
When the pilot filmed in 1988, Hill’s character wasn’t in the story. Instead, it featured Roy Thinnes as District Attorney Alfred Wentworth. Law & Order got the green light in 1990. But Thinnes opted to accept a more prominent role in a reboot of Dark Shadows. Hill was cast as Schiff. The pilot episode "Everybody's Favorite Bagman," featuring Thinnes, aired as the sixth episode of Law & Order’s first season.
While Dark Shadows was canceled after one season, Hill played Schiff for more than 225 episodes. "There's a certain positive statement in this show," he said in the 1996 Times feature. "So much is negative today. The positive must be stated to rescue us from pandemonium. To me it lies in that principle: law and order."
When he decided to leave Law & Order in 2000, Hill was the longest-running regular cast member on the show. When it ended its run in 2010, only three others had logged more episodes — Waterston, S. Epatha Merkerson and Jerry Orbach. The role earned Hill two Emmy nominations for outstanding actor in a drama series. The character also appeared in a 2000 episode of Law & Order: Special Victims Unit.
Hill retired after leaving Law & Order, though in 2002, he was lured back to the camera for a series of commercials as the spokesperson for the online investment firm TD Waterhouse.
In 1951, Hill married Selma Stern. The couple had four children before divorcing in 1964. Years later, Stern went on to an acting career of her own, appearing in Nutty Professor II: The Klumps (2000), Bruce Almighty (2003) and Made of Honor (2008).
Remarried in 1967, Hill is survived by his second wife Rachel. The couple had five children.
Bryan Styble
Aug 23, 2016, 2:21:33 PM8/23/16
to
Not that my validation is necessarily worth a whit to you, Derek, but I think you defended yourself above more than adequately regarding the inadvisability of citing Wikipedia as a source. It ain't perfect, for sure, but these days, neither are Time and the NYT (which of course were never flawlessly factual, either).
BRYAN STYBLE/Florida
BRYAN STYBLE/Florida
Bryan Styble
Aug 23, 2016, 2:26:24 PM8/23/16
to
By the way, am I the only "Mission: Impossible" fan who thought the CBS series was best that first season, with Hill as Dan Briggs, rather than Arness kid brother Peter Graves as Jim Phelps?
STYBLE/Florida
STYBLE/Florida
Adam H. Kerman
Aug 23, 2016, 4:09:34 PM8/23/16
to
Adam H. Kerman
Aug 23, 2016, 4:10:06 PM8/23/16
to
Adam H. Kerman
Aug 23, 2016, 4:23:05 PM8/23/16
to
That Derek <that...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>Talk about making a mountain out of a Steve Hill (OK, that was forced).
>>>Wikipedia is filled with errors and misleading or ambiguous statements
>>>because of the self-editing feature.
>That is why when a full-fledged journalism obit has not yet been made
>manifest I post "Wikipedia is reporting..." I am totally aware of
>Wikipedia's tentativeness. Thus, when such a situation arises, I exempt
>the lack of a legit obit with "Wikipedia is reporting..." Also, when I
>post a link, I usually cut-'n'-paste its contents; however, when
>Wikipedia is the only source, I refuse to do so -- in the event such
>reportage turns out to be a "faux-bituary."
I looked again. Now, the Wikipedia page has a link to Variety. If that
>Talk about making a mountain out of a Steve Hill (OK, that was forced).
>>>Wikipedia is filled with errors and misleading or ambiguous statements
>>>because of the self-editing feature.
>That is why when a full-fledged journalism obit has not yet been made
>manifest I post "Wikipedia is reporting..." I am totally aware of
>Wikipedia's tentativeness. Thus, when such a situation arises, I exempt
>the lack of a legit obit with "Wikipedia is reporting..." Also, when I
>post a link, I usually cut-'n'-paste its contents; however, when
>Wikipedia is the only source, I refuse to do so -- in the event such
>reportage turns out to be a "faux-bituary."
had been the case this morning when I looked, I wouldn't have said
anything. Wikipedia is useful for organizing information, when I can
read the referenced articles. Sometimes I find circular references.
Anything stated in Wikipedia whose reference article I cannot read or
cannot find or isn't cited I refuse to take as legitimate information,
and I won't use words like "reporting" or "news" with Wikipedia, which
mean something in good journalism.
>Here's a LEGIT obit for Steven Hill from "The Hollywood Reporter":
how he was fired/let go from Mission Impossible.
Adam H. Kerman
Aug 23, 2016, 4:27:07 PM8/23/16
to
the source of the information about his death. The problem was that whoever
edited the page couldn't be bothered to cite what he had read when Derek
posted about it this morning. All Derek could do was tell us what
he had read.
My objection stands. The update to the Wikipedia page WAS NOT a proper report.
Sarah Ehrett
Aug 23, 2016, 4:52:17 PM8/23/16
to
On Tue, 23 Aug 2016 11:26:23 -0700 (PDT), Bryan Styble
<radioacti...@gmail.com> wrote:
>By the way, am I the only "Mission: Impossible" fan who thought the CBS series was best that first season, with Hill as Dan Briggs, rather than Arness kid brother Peter Graves as Jim Phelps?
Bryan, I too preferred Hill in the roll.
<radioacti...@gmail.com> wrote:
>By the way, am I the only "Mission: Impossible" fan who thought the CBS series was best that first season, with Hill as Dan Briggs, rather than Arness kid brother Peter Graves as Jim Phelps?
>STYBLE/Florida
Sarah Ehrett
Aug 23, 2016, 4:53:10 PM8/23/16
to
Sarah Ehrett
Aug 23, 2016, 4:55:42 PM8/23/16
to
On Tue, 23 Aug 2016 20:09:32 +0000 (UTC), "Adam H. Kerman"
Hahahaha. "seamus" must spank you regularly on Usenet.
A Friend
Aug 23, 2016, 5:15:56 PM8/23/16
to
Adam H. Kerman
Aug 23, 2016, 5:37:45 PM8/23/16
to
Sarah Ehrett
Aug 23, 2016, 5:45:43 PM8/23/16
to
On Tue, 23 Aug 2016 20:10:04 +0000 (UTC), "Adam H. Kerman"
Poor delusional Adam H. Kerman. Four years on and still wrong.
---- From Google
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/rec.arts.tv/B6vaQj6qZkw%5B1-25%5D
>cloud dreamer
>4/5/12
>
>>On 05/04/2012 11:04 AM, Martin Phipps wrote:
>> I should have seen it earlier. Congratulations, seamus, you got all
>> of us. The trolling is obvious in retrospect but for a while there I
>> thought he was serious.
>>
>> Martin
>
>He's not seamus but he is a troll. I come out and warn people when
>seamus posts and Kerman rags on me. Then he goes off accusing others of
>being seamus and I don't think he has yet to be right.
---- End Google reference.
- hide quoted text -
On 05/04/2012 11:04 AM, Martin Phipps wrote:
> I should have seen it earlier. Congratulations, seamus, you got all
> of us. The trolling is obvious in retrospect but for a while there I
> thought he was serious.
>
> Martin
---- From Google
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/rec.arts.tv/B6vaQj6qZkw%5B1-25%5D
>cloud dreamer
>4/5/12
>
>>On 05/04/2012 11:04 AM, Martin Phipps wrote:
>> I should have seen it earlier. Congratulations, seamus, you got all
>> of us. The trolling is obvious in retrospect but for a while there I
>> thought he was serious.
>>
>> Martin
>
>He's not seamus but he is a troll. I come out and warn people when
>seamus posts and Kerman rags on me. Then he goes off accusing others of
>being seamus and I don't think he has yet to be right.
---- End Google reference.
- hide quoted text -
On 05/04/2012 11:04 AM, Martin Phipps wrote:
> I should have seen it earlier. Congratulations, seamus, you got all
> of us. The trolling is obvious in retrospect but for a while there I
> thought he was serious.
>
> Martin
anim8rfsk
Aug 23, 2016, 6:02:56 PM8/23/16
to
In article <lhgprbp0mnctou18k...@4ax.com>,
Shut up Seamus
--
Join your old RAT friends at
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1688985234647266/
--
Join your old RAT friends at
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1688985234647266/
J.D. Baldwin
Aug 23, 2016, 6:11:41 PM8/23/16
to
In the previous article, Adam H. Kerman <a...@chinet.com> wrote:
> >Wikipedia is reporting the death of actor STEVEN HILL, 84, on 08/23/2016:
>
>
> Could you rephrase that?
>
> Wikipedia isn't a news service. It doesn't have reporters.
You don't have to have "reporters" to report things.
> Could you rephrase that?
>
> Wikipedia isn't a news service. It doesn't have reporters.
--
_+_ From the catapult of |If anyone objects to any statement I make, I am
_|70|___:)=}- J.D. Baldwin |quite prepared not only to retract it, but also
\ / bal...@panix.com|to deny under oath that I ever made it.-T. Lehrer
***~~~~----------------------------------------------------------------------
Adam H. Kerman
Aug 23, 2016, 6:23:25 PM8/23/16
to
J.D. Baldwin <ne...@baldwin.users.panix.com> wrote:
>Adam H. Kerman <a...@chinet.com> wrote:
>>>Wikipedia is reporting the death of actor STEVEN HILL, 84, on 08/23/2016:
>>[...]
>>Could you rephrase that?
>>Wikipedia isn't a news service. It doesn't have reporters.
>You don't have to have "reporters" to report things.
It DOES have to be a proper report to be an authentic death notice.
>Adam H. Kerman <a...@chinet.com> wrote:
>>>Wikipedia is reporting the death of actor STEVEN HILL, 84, on 08/23/2016:
>>[...]
>>Could you rephrase that?
>>Wikipedia isn't a news service. It doesn't have reporters.
>You don't have to have "reporters" to report things.
This Wikipedia page revision lacking a citation to an obit or a
death notice was nothing of the kind.
I can't believe after 12 posts or so, no one yet understands that.
Fake death notices can cause real problems for living people. The regular
readers of this newsgroup should get that.
George M. Middius
Aug 23, 2016, 7:08:49 PM8/23/16
to
Sarah Ehrett wrote:
> >hi seamus
>
> Poor delusional Adam H. Kerman. Four years on and still wrong.
We're all seamus, apparently.
> >hi seamus
>
> Poor delusional Adam H. Kerman. Four years on and still wrong.
Dimensional Traveler
Aug 23, 2016, 8:22:40 PM8/23/16
to
anim8rfsk
Aug 23, 2016, 9:19:43 PM8/23/16
to
In article <npipce$mle$3...@dont-email.me>,
Dimensional Traveler <dtr...@sonic.net> wrote:
> On 8/23/2016 4:08 PM, George M. Middius wrote:
> > Sarah Ehrett wrote:
> >
> >>> hi seamus
> >>
> >> Poor delusional Adam H. Kerman. Four years on and still wrong.
> >
> > We're all seamus, apparently.
> >
> I'm not, I'm Spartacus.
I AM SPARTACUS!
> On 8/23/2016 4:08 PM, George M. Middius wrote:
> > Sarah Ehrett wrote:
> >
> >>> hi seamus
> >>
> >> Poor delusional Adam H. Kerman. Four years on and still wrong.
> >
> > We're all seamus, apparently.
> >
> I'm not, I'm Spartacus.
David Carson
Aug 23, 2016, 10:06:15 PM8/23/16
to
the ones that aren't are pretty obvious. The fake death notices that make
the rounds all the time and cause varying amounts of mischief usually
originate with specialized celebrity death hoax/fake news sites, and they
spread, like all things idiotic do today, via Facebook and Twitter, not
Wikipedia.
The regular readers of this newsgroup know what Wikipedia is and isn't. We
get that its editors ignore its prime directive and post unsourced
material all the time. Don't worry about us.
Me, if I'm posting a notice I've only found on Wikipedia, I add
"unconfirmed," but I'm not going to worry about it if someone else doesn't
UNLESS it looks iffy. This one did not.
Adam, I'm not being snippy, but if you want to be someone who tells people
how they ought to post obits and death notices, you should do a few
yourself every now and then. I guarantee, you'll make some mistakes and
get criticized for them, or you'll just get criticized without even making
any mistakes. Either way, it will help you be a better critic.
David Carson
--
Dead or Alive Data Base
http://www.doadb.com
Adam H. Kerman
Aug 23, 2016, 10:51:57 PM8/23/16
to
David Carson <da...@neosoft.com> wrote:
>Adam, I'm not being snippy, but if you want to be someone who tells people
>how they ought to post obits and death notices, you should do a few
>yourself every now and then. I guarantee, you'll make some mistakes and
>get criticized for them, or you'll just get criticized without even making
>any mistakes. Either way, it will help you be a better critic.
I've often thought about it when someone well known or only somewhat
>Adam, I'm not being snippy, but if you want to be someone who tells people
>how they ought to post obits and death notices, you should do a few
>yourself every now and then. I guarantee, you'll make some mistakes and
>get criticized for them, or you'll just get criticized without even making
>any mistakes. Either way, it will help you be a better critic.
well known has died, but I always wait till I've found an obit on line
that I can cite.
By that time, one of the regulars of this group has already posted.
I don't know how they do it. For a death notice, I'd rather be late
than wrong.
You get the last word on the rest of it.
J.D. Baldwin
Aug 23, 2016, 11:15:01 PM8/23/16
to
In the previous article, Adam H. Kerman <a...@chinet.com> wrote:
> >>Wikipedia isn't a news service. It doesn't have reporters.
>
> >You don't have to have "reporters" to report things.
>
> It DOES have to be a proper report to be an authentic death notice.
as it goes, but there are wide error bars around what constitutes a
"proper report."
For my part, I'd rather that a death notice whose only source is
Wikipedia should contain some indication of reduced reliability in the
subject line. That would be my preference, but it is not obviously
*wrong* to mark it as a straight-up report of a death where there are
no good reasons to think it unreliable.
Apart from that one quibble, I endorse everything David said in
response to your post.
Michael Black
Aug 23, 2016, 11:33:53 PM8/23/16
to
On Tue, 23 Aug 2016, Dimensional Traveler wrote:
> On 8/23/2016 4:08 PM, George M. Middius wrote:
>> Sarah Ehrett wrote:
>>
>>>> hi seamus
>>>
>>> Poor delusional Adam H. Kerman. Four years on and still wrong.
>>
>> We're all seamus, apparently.
>>
> I'm not, I'm Spartacus.
>
I was thinking the same thing.
> On 8/23/2016 4:08 PM, George M. Middius wrote:
>> Sarah Ehrett wrote:
>>
>>>> hi seamus
>>>
>>> Poor delusional Adam H. Kerman. Four years on and still wrong.
>>
>> We're all seamus, apparently.
>>
> I'm not, I'm Spartacus.
>
Michael
Adam H. Kerman
Aug 24, 2016, 12:50:20 AM8/24/16
to
J.D. Baldwin <ne...@baldwin.users.panix.com> wrote:
>Adam H. Kerman <a...@chinet.com> wrote:
>>>>Wikipedia isn't a news service. It doesn't have reporters.
>>>You don't have to have "reporters" to report things.
>>It DOES have to be a proper report to be an authentic death notice.
>That's a different assertion from the original. It's correct as far
>as it goes, but there are wide error bars around what constitutes a
>"proper report."
In the case of Wikipedia, when a page is updated properly, it includes
>Adam H. Kerman <a...@chinet.com> wrote:
>>>>Wikipedia isn't a news service. It doesn't have reporters.
>>>You don't have to have "reporters" to report things.
>>It DOES have to be a proper report to be an authentic death notice.
>That's a different assertion from the original. It's correct as far
>as it goes, but there are wide error bars around what constitutes a
>"proper report."
citations. The proper update to the page didn't occur for many hours.
They aren't supposed to include unsupported statements ever. When
updating a biography to note the death. they need to take the time
to do it correctly in the first place, which didn't happen here.
Because of this, implying any sort of journalism with respect to
Wikipedia was what I objected to.
>For my part, I'd rather that a death notice whose only source is
>Wikipedia should contain some indication of reduced reliability in the
>subject line. That would be my preference, but it is not obviously
>*wrong* to mark it as a straight-up report of a death where there are
>no good reasons to think it unreliable.
>Apart from that one quibble, I endorse everything David said in
>response to your post.
on Wikipedia pages. They are supposed to have citations.
You can defend David. Wikipedia's quality control, not so much.
David Carson
Aug 24, 2016, 1:14:43 AM8/24/16
to
On Wed, 24 Aug 2016 03:14:59 +0000 (UTC),
INVALID...@example.com.invalid (J.D. Baldwin) wrote:
>Apart from that one quibble, I endorse everything David said in
>response to your post.
Even the Star Trek reference.
INVALID...@example.com.invalid (J.D. Baldwin) wrote:
>Apart from that one quibble, I endorse everything David said in
>response to your post.
Micky DuPree
Aug 24, 2016, 9:22:51 AM8/24/16
to
Michael Black <et...@ncf.ca> writes:
> On Tue, 23 Aug 2016, Dimensional Traveler wrote:
>> On 8/23/2016 4:08 PM, George M. Middius wrote:
>>> We're all seamus, apparently.
You actually might be.
> On Tue, 23 Aug 2016, Dimensional Traveler wrote:
>> On 8/23/2016 4:08 PM, George M. Middius wrote:
>>> We're all seamus, apparently.
>> I'm not, I'm Spartacus.
>
> I was thinking the same thing.
-Micky
George M. Middius
Aug 24, 2016, 9:29:53 AM8/24/16
to
Micky DuPree wrote:
> >>> We're all seamus, apparently.
>
> You actually might be.
Anybody who believes that is a complete idiot.
> >>> We're all seamus, apparently.
>
> You actually might be.
Adam H. Kerman
Aug 24, 2016, 9:43:03 AM8/24/16
to
Adam H. Kerman <a...@chinet.com> wrote:
>You can defend David. Wikipedia's quality control, not so much.
Er, That Derek, not David. I apologize.
>You can defend David. Wikipedia's quality control, not so much.
Dimensional Traveler
Aug 24, 2016, 10:39:12 AM8/24/16
to
David Carson
Aug 24, 2016, 1:48:00 PM8/24/16
to
Sarah Ehrett
Aug 24, 2016, 3:23:38 PM8/24/16
to
On Wed, 24 Aug 2016 12:47:51 -0500, David Carson <da...@neosoft.com>
wrote:
>On Tue, 23 Aug 2016 16:55:43 -0400, Sarah Ehrett <nine...@cox.net>
>wrote:
>
>>On Tue, 23 Aug 2016 20:09:32 +0000 (UTC), "Adam H. Kerman"
>><a...@chinet.com> wrote:
>>>hi seamus
>>
>>Hahahaha. "seamus" must spank you regularly on Usenet.
>
>I thought you were Ken.
I keep forgetting. :)
>On Tue, 23 Aug 2016 16:55:43 -0400, Sarah Ehrett <nine...@cox.net>
>wrote:
>
>>On Tue, 23 Aug 2016 20:09:32 +0000 (UTC), "Adam H. Kerman"
>><a...@chinet.com> wrote:
>>>hi seamus
>>
>>Hahahaha. "seamus" must spank you regularly on Usenet.
>
>I thought you were Ken.
cathyc...@aol.com
Aug 24, 2016, 4:48:32 PM8/24/16
to
How nice it would have been to have 34 posts celebrating Steven Hill instead of all this garbage.
Sarah Ehrett
Aug 24, 2016, 6:14:18 PM8/24/16
to
On Wed, 24 Aug 2016 13:48:30 -0700 (PDT), cathyc...@aol.com wrote:
>How nice it would have been to have 34 posts celebrating Steven Hill instead of all this garbage.
I seem to have missed your comments celebrating Steven Hill.
>How nice it would have been to have 34 posts celebrating Steven Hill instead of all this garbage.
cathyc...@aol.com
Aug 24, 2016, 10:13:43 PM8/24/16
to
And it continues.
Sarah Ehrett
Aug 25, 2016, 12:50:53 AM8/25/16
to
On Wed, 24 Aug 2016 19:13:42 -0700 (PDT), cathyc...@aol.com wrote:
>And it continues.
What continues? I commented on Hill's role in "Mission:
Impossible" TWO DAYS ago, "cathy".
I see the thread is still without an on topic contribution from you.
>And it continues.
What continues? I commented on Hill's role in "Mission:
Impossible" TWO DAYS ago, "cathy".
I see the thread is still without an on topic contribution from you.
Bryan Styble
Aug 25, 2016, 4:40:41 AM8/25/16
to
Sarah Ehrett has lost patience with "cathyc";
What continues? I commented on Hill's role in "Mission: Impossible" TWO DAYS ago...
_____________________________________________________________________________________________________
Indeed you did, and it was quite gratifying to know someone else noticed the subtle but significant differences in tone under the leadership of Hill's Dan Briggs character.
BRYAN STYBLE/Florida
What continues? I commented on Hill's role in "Mission: Impossible" TWO DAYS ago...
_____________________________________________________________________________________________________
Indeed you did, and it was quite gratifying to know someone else noticed the subtle but significant differences in tone under the leadership of Hill's Dan Briggs character.
BRYAN STYBLE/Florida
cathyc...@aol.com
Aug 25, 2016, 7:07:06 AM8/25/16
to
There doesn't need to be a contribution from me in order to point out that instead of 34 posts celebrating Steven Hill -- that all could enjoy to read -- there were 34 posts of a meaningless shit eating contest to which you and others happily contributed like a bunch of 12 year olds in a playground.
Louis Epstein
Aug 27, 2016, 7:07:12 PM8/27/16
to
That Derek <that...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Talk about making a mountain out of a Steve Hill (OK, that was forced).
>
>>> Wikipedia is filled with errors and misleading or ambiguous statements
> because of the self-editing feature.
>
> That is why when a full-fledged journalism obit has not yet been made manifest I post "Wikipedia is reporting..." I am totally aware of Wikipedia's tentativeness. Thus, when such a situation arises, I exempt the lack of a legit obit with "Wikipedia is reporting..." Also, when I post a link, I usually cut-'n'-paste its contents; however, when Wikipedia is the only source, I refuse to do so -- in the event such reportage turns out to be a "faux-bituary."
>
> Here's a LEGIT obit for Steven Hill from "The Hollywood Reporter":
>
> http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/steven-hill-dead-law-order-880765
>
> Steven Hill, District Attorney Adam Schiff on 'Law & Order,' Dies at 94
>
> 9:25 AM PDT 8/23/2016
> by Chris Koseluk
>
> Also known for his work on the stage and on 'Mission: Impossible,' Hill "was not only one of the truly great actors of his generation, he was one of the most intelligent people I have ever met," said Dick Wolf.
>
> Steven Hill, the stoic actor who was an original castmember on both the 1960s iconic television series Mission: Impossible and the ground-breaking 1990s drama Law & Order, died Tuesday. He was 94.
>
> Hill, who began his career on the New York stage and went on to build an impressive list of film and television credits that spanned more than five decades, died in Monsey, N.Y., his son, Rabbi Yehoshua Hill, told The Hollywood Reporter.
>
> "Steven was not only one of the truly great actors of his generation, he was one of the most intelligent people I have ever met," said Law & Order creator Dick Wolf in a statement. "He is also the only actor I've known who consistently tried to cut his own lines. He will be missed but fortunately he can be seen ubiquitously on Law & Order reruns."
>
> When Mission: Impossible debuted in 1966 on CBS, it was Hill, as Daniel
> Briggs, who originally led the covert Impossible Missions Force. IMF was
> known for taking on government assignments that were so classified, the
> Secretary would disavow any knowledge of their actions if a member were
> caught or killed.
>
> Briggs also was the first to hear the show's iconic catchphrase, "This
> tape will self-destruct in five seconds." But in the pilot episode, he
> actually received his mission on an LP and was told, "As usual, this
> recording will decompose one minute after the breaking of the seal."
Once familiar with this intention to abandon & betray employees,
I'd expect anyone hearing the instructions to bring a recording
device and make a copy of every assignment for protection.
> When he decided to leave Law & Order in 2000, Hill was the
> longest-running regular cast member on the show. When it ended its run
> in 2010, only three others had logged more episodes ??? Waterston, S.
> Epatha Merkerson and Jerry Orbach. The role earned Hill two Emmy
> nominations for outstanding actor in a drama series. The character also
> appeared in a 2000 episode of Law & Order: Special Victims Unit.
I wonder if SVU will note Adam Schiff's death.
(Orbach's death was reflected with reference to Briscoe's).
-=-=-
The World Trade Center towers MUST rise again,
at least as tall as before...or terror has triumphed.
> Talk about making a mountain out of a Steve Hill (OK, that was forced).
>
>>> Wikipedia is filled with errors and misleading or ambiguous statements
> because of the self-editing feature.
>
> That is why when a full-fledged journalism obit has not yet been made manifest I post "Wikipedia is reporting..." I am totally aware of Wikipedia's tentativeness. Thus, when such a situation arises, I exempt the lack of a legit obit with "Wikipedia is reporting..." Also, when I post a link, I usually cut-'n'-paste its contents; however, when Wikipedia is the only source, I refuse to do so -- in the event such reportage turns out to be a "faux-bituary."
>
> Here's a LEGIT obit for Steven Hill from "The Hollywood Reporter":
>
> http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/steven-hill-dead-law-order-880765
>
> Steven Hill, District Attorney Adam Schiff on 'Law & Order,' Dies at 94
>
> 9:25 AM PDT 8/23/2016
> by Chris Koseluk
>
> Also known for his work on the stage and on 'Mission: Impossible,' Hill "was not only one of the truly great actors of his generation, he was one of the most intelligent people I have ever met," said Dick Wolf.
>
> Steven Hill, the stoic actor who was an original castmember on both the 1960s iconic television series Mission: Impossible and the ground-breaking 1990s drama Law & Order, died Tuesday. He was 94.
>
> Hill, who began his career on the New York stage and went on to build an impressive list of film and television credits that spanned more than five decades, died in Monsey, N.Y., his son, Rabbi Yehoshua Hill, told The Hollywood Reporter.
>
> "Steven was not only one of the truly great actors of his generation, he was one of the most intelligent people I have ever met," said Law & Order creator Dick Wolf in a statement. "He is also the only actor I've known who consistently tried to cut his own lines. He will be missed but fortunately he can be seen ubiquitously on Law & Order reruns."
>
> When Mission: Impossible debuted in 1966 on CBS, it was Hill, as Daniel
> Briggs, who originally led the covert Impossible Missions Force. IMF was
> known for taking on government assignments that were so classified, the
> Secretary would disavow any knowledge of their actions if a member were
> caught or killed.
>
> Briggs also was the first to hear the show's iconic catchphrase, "This
> tape will self-destruct in five seconds." But in the pilot episode, he
> actually received his mission on an LP and was told, "As usual, this
> recording will decompose one minute after the breaking of the seal."
Once familiar with this intention to abandon & betray employees,
I'd expect anyone hearing the instructions to bring a recording
device and make a copy of every assignment for protection.
> When he decided to leave Law & Order in 2000, Hill was the
> longest-running regular cast member on the show. When it ended its run
> in 2010, only three others had logged more episodes ??? Waterston, S.
> Epatha Merkerson and Jerry Orbach. The role earned Hill two Emmy
> nominations for outstanding actor in a drama series. The character also
> appeared in a 2000 episode of Law & Order: Special Victims Unit.
I wonder if SVU will note Adam Schiff's death.
(Orbach's death was reflected with reference to Briscoe's).
-=-=-
The World Trade Center towers MUST rise again,
at least as tall as before...or terror has triumphed.
Sarah Ehrett
Aug 28, 2016, 2:41:57 PM8/28/16
to
performances that I feel is impact was often overlooked. I
particularly enjoyed his role on Law and Order.
>BRYAN STYBLE/Florida
Sarah Ehrett
Aug 28, 2016, 2:43:01 PM8/28/16
to
0 new messages