Question About Acting Credits; "Uncredited"
Squib
Browsing through many of the acting credits on the IMDb of various
actors and actesses, many times they are "uncredited" in movies.
Is this a SAG thing, or is the role just too small to mention. It seems
to me that they are either in the movie or TV show or they are not.
An excellent example is actress Ellen Corby, who played Grandma
Walton on "The Waltons". Look at her IMDB credit list and virtually
every movie she appeared in during the 1940s and early 50s she
is listed as "uncredited".
http://us.imdb.com/name/nm0179289/
I was wondering how an actor get classified as "uncredited" in a
movie, even though they are in it. I know that an actor can request
that their name not appear in movie credits, maybe that has something
to do with it.
deb...@comcast.net
even one line of dialogue, they get credit.
Squib
<deb...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:1120190125.9...@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> I always asumed "uncredited" meant a non-speaking role. If they have
> even one line of dialogue, they get credit.
>
That's what I assumed too, but there are instances I have seen otherwise.
I have seen reruns of MASH, where I have seen orderlies or patients say,
"Yes sir", or "I don't know" or "I feel fine" and they are not in the
credits.
GoldenDally
I don't think that's the case because both Paul Sorvino and Joe
Viterelli are listed as "uncredited" in The Firm, however, they both
had speaking roles. I always thought it meant they did the film
gratis, but know that can't be right!
gd
Jim Beaver
"Squib" <s...@udcoxw.net> wrote in message
news:da2di...@news1.newsguy.com...
In the old days (meaning before about the late Seventies), only a fraction
of the actors in a film got onscreen credit. Usually a film of the Forties
or Fifties would feature the names of anywhere between five and twelve
actors, including the stars, in the opening credits, and (especially
earlier) there would be a credit "card," as they're called, at the end which
would attach role names to the actors' names, often including a few more of
the cast than were listed in the opening credits. My guess is that the
average Hollywood movie of the Thirties through the Seventies had
approximately 60% of its speaking cast uncredited. Sometimes (in fact, much
of the time) this would include quite prominent characters whose portrayers
got no credit at all. Examples would include Claude Akins, George Reeves,
and Robert J. Wilke, each of whom had nice little roles of substance in the
film FROM HERE TO ETERNITY, but received no screen credit, fore or aft.
Henry Rowland has a good small part as the taxi driver near the end of THE
ASPHALT JUNGLE, but no credit. Similarly: Dan Seymour in CASABLANCA, Emory
Parnell in THE MALTESE FALCON, and Humphrey Bogart in BIG CITY BLUES.
Sometime around the mid-Seventies, a trend started to include more credits.
The Screen Actors Guild made it part of the Basic Minimum Agreement that any
actor working under a union principal contract (meaning a union-covered job
and a speaking or otherwise prominent part -- not an extra, even if a union
extra) would receive onscreen credit in the cast list of a film. Since that
became both a contractual and a newly traditional arrangement, all actors
with speaking roles are given credit in the tail-credits cast list, as are
stunt persons. (If an actor's part is cut out of the film, so, usually, is
his credit. Residuals are usually -- but not always -- based on an actor
being included in the tail credits. I got cut out of WHERE THE HEART IS,
and so did my credit, but thanks to a generous producer, I still get
residuals. It was a nice scene. Drop by the house sometime and I'll show
it to you. ;-)
Credit in the main [usually opening] titles is another fish entirely. Main
title credit is a negotiated item in an actor's deal, and position,
prominence, and even the actual existence of main-title billing for an actor
is between the producers and the actor and his agent.
So after the mid-Seventies, an IMDb listing for an actor as (uncredited)
probably means one of two things: A. The actor was an extra and therefore
was not contractually bound to receive screen credit, or B. the actor chose
to go uncredited (examples: Darren McGavin in THE NATURAL or, um, me in
CHILDREN OF THE DARK).
Prior to the mid-Seventies, an (uncredited) listing on IMDb for an actor
means absolutely nothing about the size or prominence of his role and
everything about whether the studio felt it would benefit from having his
name onscreen. Many more actors were uncredited on films in those days than
were credited.
I hope this clarifies matters.
Jim Beaver
Blinky the Shark
> Sometime around the mid-Seventies, a trend started to include more
> credits. The Screen Actors Guild made it part of the Basic Minimum
> Agreement that any actor working under a union principal contract
> (meaning a union-covered job and a speaking or otherwise prominent
> part -- not an extra, even if a union extra) would receive onscreen
> credit in the cast list of a film. Since that became both a
> contractual and a newly traditional arrangement, all actors with
> speaking roles are given credit in the tail-credits cast list, as are
> stunt persons. (If an actor's part is cut out of the film, so,
> usually, is
Jim, I've been doing TV production here in Hollywood for going on 30
years, now, and every so often on the set someone will crack a joke
about an extra or someone with one line like, "Oops -- more than seven
words; they'll have to pay him." Was there ever, to your knowledge, a
SAG or AFTRA rule about that being some kind of threshold that bumps a
minor player into a higher scale bracket?
--
Blinky Linux Registered User 297263
Killing all Usenet posts from Google Groups
Info: http://blinkynet.net/comp/uip5.html
*ALSO contains links for access to the NON-BETA GG archive interface*
Jim Beaver
"Blinky the Shark" <no....@box.invalid> wrote in message
news:slrndc9pe1....@thurston.blinkynet.net...
>
> Jim, I've been doing TV production here in Hollywood for going on 30
> years, now, and every so often on the set someone will crack a joke
> about an extra or someone with one line like, "Oops -- more than seven
> words; they'll have to pay him." Was there ever, to your knowledge, a
> SAG or AFTRA rule about that being some kind of threshold that bumps a
> minor player into a higher scale bracket?
I've never heard the "seven word" version. It's standard in every instance
I'm aware of that if an extra is given a line -- even a one-word line --
that he or she gets paid as a principal. I've seen it happen on a number of
occasions, and never heard of a minimum number of words before the rule
kicks in. I don't know the exact regulation, but it seems to me that an
actor either has a speaking part (and thus is paid as an actor) or doesn't,
in which case he is paid as an extra. I have experts I can ask, if I
remember to do so.
Jim Beaver
James Neibaur
> An excellent example is actress Ellen Corby, who played Grandma
> Walton on "The Waltons". Look at her IMDB credit list and virtually
> every movie she appeared in during the 1940s and early 50s she
> is listed as "uncredited".
Her parts were often very small, and in older movies they did not credit
tiny parts with one line (like her appearance in It's A Wonderful Life)
JN
Blinky the Shark
Thanks. Wonder where that biz UL started.
Hoodoo
> I've never heard the "seven word" version. It's standard in every instance
> I'm aware of that if an extra is given a line -- even a one-word line --
> that he or she gets paid as a principal. I've seen it happen on a number of
> occasions, and never heard of a minimum number of words before the rule
> kicks in. I don't know the exact regulation, but it seems to me that an
> actor either has a speaking part (and thus is paid as an actor) or doesn't,
> in which case he is paid as an extra. I have experts I can ask, if I
> remember to do so.
A few weeks ago I asked Leah Cevoli - who plays 'Tess' on
'Deadwood' - what it would take for her name to be included in
the closing credits of an episode. Here is her reply, "I was
speaking to another actor last night, and she told me that even
for an Under 5 speaking part (5 lines or less), you don't
necessarily have to be listed in the credits!"
So far in the TV series, Leah/Tess has only spoken one or two
words a time or two and she hasn't been included in the closing
credits.
--
It's a big old goofy world. - John Prine
Delbert Stanley
"uncredit" has receive so much pub it is
probably defacto credit now. Everyone knows it is his voice. In an
interview, when asked why he
didn't receive credit he said "I wasn't acting, using my voice was more like
a special effect".
Mercedes (demon voice) McCambridge certainly had more than a few words in
the "Exorcist".
She wasn't given credit at first. She went to the opening, and was shocked
not to find her name among
the credits. She cried and demanded credit (I don't blame her!). I think
SAG(?) got her included
in the credits she so deserved. The director said he didn't have time to
include her for the opening.
"Squib" <s...@udcoxw.net> wrote in message
news:da2fs...@news1.newsguy.com...
Rocky
Pierce" went uncredited, especially when actors with lesser roles, like
Veda Ann Borg and Jo Ann Marlowe, received credit.
As an aside, speaking of the cast of MP, have you ever seen anything
done by Jack Carson or Eve Arden that wasn't a sheer delight?
Rocky
Brad Ferguson
<jumb...@prodigy.spam> wrote:
> I got cut out of WHERE THE HEART IS, and so did my credit, but thanks
> to a generous producer, I still get residuals. It was a nice scene.
> Drop by the house sometime and I'll show it to you. ;-)
My TiVo sniffed that one out because, um, well, to tell you the truth,
I have an actor wishlist on you, and your name was included in the
credits TiVo gets from Tribune Media Services. So there we were
watching this thing mainly because the TiVo said you were in it, and my
wife kept asking me where you were.
melody_...@yahoo.com
I wonder why Kevin Corrigan, one of the major characters (Goon) in
"Buffalo '66" was uncredited.
Jim Beaver
"Brad Ferguson" <thir...@frXOXed.net> wrote in message
news:010720052332286739%thir...@frXOXed.net...
I played a Vietnam vet in a wheelchair in the audience of a concert
performed by the runaway husband. He's playing rockabilly and I throw
myself out of my wheelchair onto the stage screaming "Play somethin' from
'Sound of Music!'" while slashing at him with a clawhammer. My hammer
catches his jeans front and rips it open and a roll of quarters falls out of
his underwear.
It's a funny scene, but I can see why it got cut -- it didn't move the story
along.
Jim Beaver
Bianca
that scene is kinda cool.
I can see why it was cut. It really doesn't fit with the rest of the
movie. I have a real soft spot for this movie.
Delbert Stanley
Oscar for that, her first role.
<deb...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:1120190125.9...@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
James Neibaur
> Then there was Marlee Matlin. Didn't say a word. She won an
> Oscar for that, her first role.
She said a great deal. Just not the same way many of us do.
JN
mavman
he takes a small role he would prefer no credit, rather than less than
top billing. I'm thinking Jack Nicholson in Broadcast News.
melody_...@yahoo.com
I do not have a tape of the movie but in IMDB he is not listed as
uncredited:
Chuck Bridgeland
> I always asumed "uncredited" meant a non-speaking role. If they have
> even one line of dialogue, they get credit.
John Wayne has an uncredited appearance in "The Greatest Story Ever Told",
with one line of dialog. "Surely this man was thuh son uh God." -- noone
sounds like John Wayne.
--
1)What is your only comfort in life and death?
Chuck Bridgeland, chuckbri at computerdyn dot com
Jim Beaver
"Chuck Bridgeland" <gn3...@news-central.giganews.com> wrote in message
news:slrndce6pa....@localhost.localdomain...
> On 30 Jun 2005 20:55:26 -0700, deb...@comcast.net <deb...@comcast.net>
> wrote:
>
>> I always asumed "uncredited" meant a non-speaking role. If they have
>> even one line of dialogue, they get credit.
>
> John Wayne has an uncredited appearance in "The Greatest Story Ever Told",
> with one line of dialog. "Surely this man was thuh son uh God." -- noone
> sounds like John Wayne.
It's not uncredited. He's in the main title credits.
Jim Beaver
GS
"mavman" <mavm...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1120322151.0...@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
> Sometimes an actor has a deal where he always gets top billing, so when
> he takes a small role he would prefer no credit, rather than less than
> top billing. I'm thinking Jack Nicholson in Broadcast News.
>
Robert Duvall has two memorable uncredited appearances, in The
Conversation and the 1978 Invasion of the Bodysnatchers. In the second
one, his brief mood-setting shot as a priest on a public swing always cracks
me up.
King Daevid MacKenzie
> I got cut out of WHERE THE HEART IS,
> and so did my credit, but thanks to a generous producer, I still get
> residuals. It was a nice scene. Drop by the house sometime and I'll show
> it to you. ;-)
...are you _sure_ you wanna make that offer to _this_ crowd? ;-) ...
...seriously, this brings up a question about which I've been curious
for quite a while. One of my favourite character actresses of the '70s
and '80s, Marcie Barkin, appeared in a scene in Samuel Fuller's WHITE
DOG that was apparently cut from the foreign release prints. Of course,
Paramount was so scared of the concept that they never bothered to
release it theatrically in the United States. Now, let's say some
company comes out with a United States DVD of WHITE DOG that either
contains Barkin's scene restored to the film or included as a special
feature. I'm assuming that at this point Barkin becomes entitled to some
sort of residuals; if so, does the rate of those residuals depend at all
on the fact that the film never got a domestic theatrical release?...
--
--
King Daevid MacKenzie, WLSU-FM 88.9 La Crosse, Wisconsin, USA
heard weekdays at http://whiterosesociety.org
"There is Christian and there is Elvis-from-the-waist-up Christian."
JAMES NEIBAUR
James Neibaur
> Now, let's say some
> company comes out with a United States DVD of WHITE DOG that either
> contains Barkin's scene restored to the film or included as a special
> feature. I'm assuming that at this point Barkin becomes entitled to some
> sort of residuals
I would assume that her salary was all she got for the movie, and would not
have received residuals even if her scene remained intact.
Anyone know?
JN
Jim Beaver
"King Daevid MacKenzie" <echoes...@charter.net> wrote in message
news:xXYxe.23186$B_3....@fe05.lga...
> Jim Beaver sez:
>
>> I got cut out of WHERE THE HEART IS, and so did my credit, but thanks to
>> a generous producer, I still get residuals. It was a nice scene. Drop
>> by the house sometime and I'll show it to you. ;-)
>
> ...are you _sure_ you wanna make that offer to _this_ crowd? ;-) ...
>
> ...seriously, this brings up a question about which I've been curious for
> quite a while. One of my favourite character actresses of the '70s and
> '80s, Marcie Barkin, appeared in a scene in Samuel Fuller's WHITE DOG that
> was apparently cut from the foreign release prints. Of course, Paramount
> was so scared of the concept that they never bothered to release it
> theatrically in the United States. Now, let's say some company comes out
> with a United States DVD of WHITE DOG that either contains Barkin's scene
> restored to the film or included as a special feature. I'm assuming that
> at this point Barkin becomes entitled to some sort of residuals; if so,
> does the rate of those residuals depend at all on the fact that the film
> never got a domestic theatrical release?...
Residuals are not paid anyone for theatrical release. Residuals are
payments for "residual" or ancillary uses of the film, i.e., television,
DVD, videotape, foreign broadcast, airplanes, etc. A film can make thirty
billion dollars at the theatre boxoffice and none of the cast (except for
profit-participation stars, a tiny fraction of any film's cast) will get a
dime beyond their original fee for doing the film. Once a film is sold to
television or released on video or other venue, then a fraction of THOSE
revenues -- not boxoffice revenues -- is divvied up among the cast on a
point system which, while I don't know the system exactly, revolves around
number of days worked on the film, number of people in the film, original
salary, etc. A formula exists to define what portion of the residual
revenues each eligible actor should receive, and so the AMOUNT an actor
receives from any given film varies wildly. The best scenario: a film with
very few actors in it which receives extremely frequent network airplay and
enormous video sales. The residual payments for DVD and for cable broadcast
are pitifully small, especially in view of what comes from a showing on NBC
or CBS. My first check for SISTER ACT (which ran quite a bit on network TV
and which had huge video sales) was over $11,000.00. (Despite its large
cast, I got a good chunk because I was on it for five weeks, and subsequent
checks from that film dropped dramatically in value as video sales and
network showings tapered off. Recent checks: around $11.00.) On the other
hand, there are some films that I've never seen one red cent from. Most
others fall into the more typical category: once or twice a year, I'll get
a check for $13.95 or 52.01 or 78 cents. Nobody can live more than an hour
or two on most of these checks. It's quantity that matters. Getting forty
checks a quarter for 30 bucks is no road to wealth, but it's a nice
addition, especially as it is always unexpected. Just when you can't pay
the light bill, a handful of checks totalling maybe four hundred bucks will
show up.
Now if the actress you mentioned was cut out of the film, it's highly
unlikely she would get residual payments, no matter what residual uses the
film was put to. (As I described from personal experience, it's not
impossible -- just very rare -- to get residuals from a film one's been cut
from.) The moment her footage is restored to the film, though, and the film
gets an ancillary release to broadcast TV or video, she'll get residual
payments. Presuming it was a union film to begin with. I'm not certain
what the deal is regarding actors who only appear in "deleted scenes" on a
DVD, but I suspect (strongly) that there's a residual deal in place FOR THE
DVD ONLY.
That, in a nutshell, is how residuals work for feature films. For
television work, it's pretty much a sliding scale, a certain amount each
time the episode is rerun on network, decreasing each time, and a few bucks
every time it is run in syndication, up to a maximum of some number.
There's little or nothing for shows rerunning on cable. Deadwood, for
example, can run every night for the next six centuries on HBO under the
current contract, and I'll never see a residual check. But the actors split
six cents per DVD sold. With probably forty actors vying for a cut from
every episode, a tv-show-on-DVD has to sell an awful lot to make any one
actor any money at one-fortieth-of-six-cents-per-DVD-sold, but it all adds
up.
Any questions, class?
Jim Beaver
ingrid56
> Deadwood, for example, can run every night for the next six
> centuries on
> HBO under the current contract, and I'll never see a residual check.
> But the actors split six cents per DVD sold. With probably forty
> actors
> vying for a cut from every episode, a tv-show-on-DVD has to sell an
> awful lot to make any one actor any money at
> one-fortieth-of-six-cents-per-DVD-sold, but it all adds up.
So, from the $65+ I spent at Costco for the Deadwood DVD set, you
won't be getting enough to even buy a beer? Bummer. And here I was
hoping to enrich Ian a smidge. (g)
> Any questions, class?
No difference in your residual if the DVD was purchased at Costco for
$65 or from HBO where it cost $99?
Jim Beaver
"ingrid56" <ingr...@netzeroNOSPAM.net> wrote in message
news:Ay0ye.384729$cg1.2...@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
That's covered next semester.
(Translation: I don't know.)
Jim Beaver
KG
Jim Beaver wrote:
> "Squib" <s...@udcoxw.net> wrote in message
> news:da2di...@news1.newsguy.com...
>
>>This would be a good question for Jim Beaver if he is around:
>>
>>Browsing through many of the acting credits on the IMDb of various
>>actors and actesses, many times they are "uncredited" in movies.
<snip>
>>
>>I was wondering how an actor get classified as "uncredited" in a
>>movie, even though they are in it. I know that an actor can request
>>that their name not appear in movie credits, maybe that has something
>>to do with it.
>
>
> In the old days (meaning before about the late Seventies), only a fraction
> of the actors in a film got onscreen credit. Usually a film of the Forties
<snip>
>
> Sometime around the mid-Seventies, a trend started to include more credits.
> The Screen Actors Guild made it part of the Basic Minimum Agreement that any
> actor working under a union principal contract (meaning a union-covered job
<snip for length>
According to film "history," you can thank the film American Graffiti
for this! George Lucas has said in a couple of interviews I've seen, he
decided to include the entire cast and crew in the credits as a joke,
and was startled when it caught on and became accepted practice. As he
once said: "You've got me to blame for the extended credit sequences in
today's movies."
KG
Brad Ferguson
> According to film "history," you can thank the film American Graffiti
> for this! George Lucas has said in a couple of interviews I've seen, he
> decided to include the entire cast and crew in the credits as a joke,
> and was startled when it caught on and became accepted practice. As he
> once said: "You've got me to blame for the extended credit sequences in
> today's movies."
Oh, I blame him for a lot more than *that*.
--
FREE JUDITH MILLER
DGH
Danny Glover is uncredited as the judge who hears the case in "The
Rainmaker". Interestingly, the judge who is originally scheduled to
hear the case, but dies of a heart attack (Dean Stockwell) IS
creditied.