The Bulgarians are Christian Turks
PHALANX
century other Slav tribes combined with the proto-Bulgars, a group of Turkic
origin, to launch a fresh assault into the Balkans. The proto-Bulgars
originated in the area between the Urals and the Volga and were a pot-pourri
of various ethnic elements, the word Bulgar being derived from a Turkic verb
meaning 'to mix'. What differentiated the Bulgars from the Slavs was that
they had, in addition to a formidable military reputation, a highly
developed sense of political cohesion and organisation."
R.J. Crampton, "A Concise History of Bulgaria", Cambridge, 1997
No wonder the Bulgarians look like dark-skinned Asians. BTW, I don't want to
see any Slav-Macedonian laughing, since they share the same national origins
with their eastern neighbors.
PHALANX
The reason I am bushing the Bulgarians, is that I read their posts on the
Macedonian NG, and they piss me off when they claim that Macedonia was
primarily inhabited by their dirty race. Time to taste some of my medicine,
you pricks.
Wait till I get on the Balkan Wars and see what we did to your arrogant
asses.
Costas
alex
often mistaken for gypsies).
Also we have a history of fighting for what is ours( one might say we are
braver).
If Cyprus was ours, we never would have allowed anyone to take the way they
took it from you.
( According to Microsoft Encarta the birthrate in Greece is one of the
highest in Europe ,which is very common for gypsies)
Stef
Armenians, or the Thrakesians who were settled in Peloponnese to fill in the
demographic gap there in the 9th century.
Neither you have heard of the Quramites settled in Greece a century later,
neither of the Huns and Avars who settled in Greece in the 7th century.
Of course, their genetic impact is insignificant for now, for it was by far
overshadowed by that of the Ottoman Turks.
SN
PHALANX <phala...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:7vdt4o$fc3$1...@bgtnsc03.worldnet.att.net...
KOMIS (Count)
Ο alex έγραψε στο μήνυμα <7veb85$a...@bobs.unbc.ca>...
>Actually Greeks have darker skin than Bulgarians (in Bulgaria Greeks are
>often mistaken for gypsies).
>Also we have a history of fighting for what is ours( one might say we are
>braver).
>If Cyprus was ours, we never would have allowed anyone to take the way they
>took it from you.
I think that dictator Pangalos of Greece(grandfather of ex-minister of
Foreign Affairs) knew how brave you were in 1925. If you do not know the
incident, try some history. Also, try some Balkan Wars history and WW II
history
>( According to Microsoft Encarta the birthrate in Greece is one of the
>highest in Europe ,which is very common for gypsies)
You'd better look at your infant mortality because it is a good indicator of
civilisation. Also in www.infoplease.com/countries.html you can see that
Spain, Portugal, U.K, France, Denmark, Austria, Belgium, Ireland have higher
birthrate than Greece. Probably they are gypsies too, while you are a
superior race
Stef
news:7vergk$m7t$1...@newssrv.otenet.gr...
>
>
> Ο alex έγραψε στο μήνυμα <7veb85$a...@bobs.unbc.ca>...
> >Actually Greeks have darker skin than Bulgarians (in Bulgaria Greeks are
> >often mistaken for gypsies).
> >Also we have a history of fighting for what is ours( one might say we are
> >braver).
> >If Cyprus was ours, we never would have allowed anyone to take the way
they
> >took it from you.
>
>
> I think that dictator Pangalos of Greece(grandfather of ex-minister of
> Foreign Affairs) knew how brave you were in 1925. If you do not know the
> incident, try some history. Also, try some Balkan Wars history and WW II
> history
>
We know the incident, of course. It is very easy to show off when your
opponent has no regular army, when this opponent is constantly under the
threat of a joint military intervention from the victorius allies of the
WWI. If you have really studied the history of the Bulgarian - Greek
relations then you might recall the collective demarche of the GB and France
before the Bulgarian government and the Yugoslav declaration for supporting
the Greeks. hence the absurd situation that even the Bulgarian government
had to withdraw its support to the military unit involved. Of course, we
know that in the Greek textbooks this incident is written with capital
letters for it needs to blur off the shame from the preceding "success"
against Turkey.
Of course, you might continue considering the crisis of 1924-1926 as the top
moment of Greek bravery similar to that during the Balkan wars, when 6
countries attacked Bulgaria.
Still, I think that once I have rightly suspected you of being one of those
typical examples of Greek shovinsm well known in Europe and subject for
constant jokes in the international institutions. Your backing that fascioid
idiot Phalanx somewhat overshadows your statement of having a high regard
for the Bulgarians.
Of course, noone is surprised: is there a neighbour of yours you are getting
truly along with? (Serbia is not a neihgbour of Greece, as far as I know).
You are again the only "pure ethnic state" in the Balkans.
Don't you consider this slightly peculiar?
SN
PHALANX
alex wrote in message <7veb85$a...@bobs.unbc.ca>...
>Actually Greeks have darker skin than Bulgarians (in Bulgaria Greeks are
>often mistaken for gypsies).
Sorry little fella, you are the Turks not us. Now go clean some Greek toilet
you repulsive sand-nigger.
PHALANX
>Also we have a history of fighting for what is ours( one might say we are
>braver).
>If Cyprus was ours, we never would have allowed anyone to take the way they
>took it from you.
>
PHALANX
Stef wrote in message <7veink$plm$1...@news.ox.ac.uk>...
>Obviously, you have never heard of the Kafirs (converted Arabs), the
>Armenians, or the Thrakesians who were settled in Peloponnese to fill in
the
>demographic gap there in the 9th century.
>Neither you have heard of the Quramites settled in Greece a century later,
>neither of the Huns and Avars who settled in Greece in the 7th century.
>Of course, their genetic impact is insignificant for now, for it was by far
>overshadowed by that of the Ottoman Turks.
No, I 've never heard of this Bulgar inspired crap before. But I 've heard
that you and the Turks are the same people. How shameful must that feel.....
PHALANX
Julian Dontchev
: No wonder the Bulgarians look like dark-skinned Asians.
Oh bullshit! You seem to be completely loopy.
Julian Dontchev
: The reason I am bushing the Bulgarians, is that I read their posts on the
: Macedonian NG, and they piss me off when they claim that Macedonia was
: primarily inhabited by their dirty race.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
You need to see a doctor.
Michael Abadjiev
Julian,
I think also that this person is relly sick.
Michael Abadjiev
alex
and yet you said "sand-nigger"?????
If you don't believe me why don't you watch the game Bulgaria vs. Greece
(World Cup 94) and compare the skin color.(4-0)
PHALANX <phala...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:7vf7jl$ei6$1...@bgtnsc03.worldnet.att.net...
PHALANX
alex wrote in message <7vflha$p...@bobs.unbc.ca>...
>I don't know what you call yourself, because your skin is darker than ours
>and yet you said "sand-nigger"?????
>
>If you don't believe me why don't you watch the game Bulgaria vs. Greece
>(World Cup 94) and compare the skin color.(4-0)
I also watched the basketball games between our two countries for the past
ten year, were you lost in every single game. It must have been the
difference in height.
Talking about your soccer team, one looked more Asiatic than the other. What
was this guy called, Ivanov? Did he look WHITE to you??? For a moment I
thought we were playing with the Uzbek national team.
Go back to Turkey.
PHALANX
alex
Maybe that's why you win at basketball.
PHALANX <phala...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:7vfm86$p4f$1...@bgtnsc02.worldnet.att.net...
PHALANX
alex wrote in message <7vfmiu$p...@bobs.unbc.ca>...
>Black people are better in basketball than white people. Look at the NBA.
>Maybe that's why you win at basketball.
Nope, they are only doing better in the US, because the blacks have nowhere
else to turn to. Have seen any African basketball teams for example? Soccer
OTOH, is a game were blacks outperform whites, that's why the best players
in the Brazilian, English, French and Dutch teams are black. Pele himself
was of African descent.
No wonder your Afro-Asiatic players beat the "Aryan" Germans (2-0). When it
comes to soccer blacks/Bulgarians rule.
Soccer doesn't require for one to be tall, so there you go. BTW, a
compatriot of your presented some anthropological data published in Bulgaria
and showed that the average height in both FYROM and Bulgaria was 1.70 m.
Greeks are closer to 1.80 m. It must be those Turkic genes of yours that
attribute to your uglyness, small stature and dark skin complexion.
Just look at your Anatolian Turkish neighbors and you will observe that
without the mustaches you are the same people, the same filth.
alex
>>According to Microsoft Encarta the birthrate in Greece is one of the
>>highest in Europe ,which is very common for gypsies)
but our "friend" PHALANX phala...@worldnet.att.net
is calling us "niggers" and "gypsies" - I think this is racist.
I know people from Greece (some of them are very good friends of mine)
and they are nothing like PHALANX. They are actually very nice.
So I want to apologize to people like KOMIS (Count).
KOMIS (Count) <komi...@otenet.gr> wrote in message
news:7vfmfu$3qc$1...@newssrv.otenet.gr...
>
> >>
> >
> >We know the incident, of course. It is very easy to show off when your
> >opponent has no regular army, when this opponent is constantly under the
> >threat of a joint military intervention from the victorius allies of the
> >WWI. If you have really studied the history of the Bulgarian - Greek
> >relations then you might recall the collective demarche of the GB and
> France
> >before the Bulgarian government and the Yugoslav declaration for
supporting
> >the Greeks. hence the absurd situation that even the Bulgarian government
> >had to withdraw its support to the military unit involved. Of course, we
> >know that in the Greek textbooks this incident is written with capital
> >letters for it needs to blur off the shame from the preceding "success"
> >against Turkey.
> You are mistaken once more, there is no mentioning of the incident in most
> Greek textbook. Especially in schoolbook history. If you study history you
> would know how it started, and who provoked it. I assure you, also, that
the
> incident is not at all known to most of Greeks. But can you tell us what
was
> the condition of Greece when this happened? Not in a better condition than
> Bulgaria.
> Also you avoid mentioning the incidents of the WW II when Bulgarians
> occupied Northern Greece as German collaborators. As a small example I
> mention the slaughter of Doxato in 1943, I think.
>
> >Of course, you might continue considering the crisis of 1924-1926 as the
> top
> >moment of Greek bravery similar to that during the Balkan wars, when 6
> >countries attacked Bulgaria.
> >
> >Still, I think that once I have rightly suspected you of being one of
those
> >typical examples of Greek shovinsm well known in Europe and subject for
> >constant jokes in the international institutions.
>
> I think you should first read again your compatriot's message and then
talk
> about chauvinism, here is the first indication :"Also we have a history of
> fighting for what is ours( one might say we are braver).If Cyprus was
ours,
> we never would have allowed anyone to take the way they took it from
you.".
>
>
> Your backing that fascioid
> >idiot Phalanx somewhat overshadows your statement of having a high regard
> >for the Bulgarians.
>
>
> then your compatriot continues with racistic comments:
> According to Microsoft Encarta the birthrate in Greece is one of the
> highest in Europe ,which is very common for gypsies)
>
>
> >Of course, noone is surprised: is there a neighbour of yours you are
> getting
> >truly along with? (Serbia is not a neihgbour of Greece, as far as I
know).
> >You are again the only "pure ethnic state" in the Balkans.
> >Don't you consider this slightly peculiar?
> >
> >SN>
>
> I think that the two countries have very good relations. Greece has no
> territorial claims and Bulgaria also. Greeks have invested big amounts of
> money in Bulgaria and there is also co-operation of the two countries in
> Burgas-Alexandroupoli pipeline. There are also very good relationship in
> trading. Almost the same applies for Greece and other two Balkan
countries.
> Albania and FYROM. I think that we are getting along quite well with
> everybody apart from Turkey.
> Finally you are so prejudised against Greece that you imagine things on
your
> own.All your blames apply to you and your compatriot first and then to
> everybody else.
>
>
PHALANX
alex wrote in message <7vfnh8$q...@bobs.unbc.ca>...
>Yes, I said:
>>>According to Microsoft Encarta the birthrate in Greece is one of the
>>>highest in Europe ,which is very common for gypsies)
>
>but our "friend" PHALANX phala...@worldnet.att.net
>is calling us "niggers" and "gypsies" - I think this is racist.
There is no such thing as racism. This is a term used collectively by Jews
and Liberals to sensor a large portion of society who feel the need to
differentiate themselves from other ethnicities and races. The fact that I
call you Gypsies and Asiatic Turks, is not racism but the truth. Afterall,
you descent from Turkic tribes. Do you deny this my camel-jockey "friend"?
>
>I know people from Greece (some of them are very good friends of mine)
>and they are nothing like PHALANX. They are actually very nice.
>So I want to apologize to people like KOMIS (Count).
Most Greeks resent Bulgarians, and that's why the word "Bulgarian" is used
as an insult in Greece.
PHALANX
alex
psychiatrist.
PHALANX <phala...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:7vfni1$ip$1...@bgtnsc02.worldnet.att.net...
> >> >> >Also we have a history of fighting for what is ours( one might say
we
> >> are
> >> >> >braver).
> >> >> >If Cyprus was ours, we never would have allowed anyone to take the
> way
> >> >they
> >> >> >took it from you.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >( According to Microsoft Encarta the birthrate in Greece is one of
Sean
PHALANX wrote:The fact that I
> call you Gypsies and Asiatic Turks, is not racism but the truth. Afterall,
> you descent from Turkic tribes. Do you deny this my camel-jockey "friend"?
There you go putting your foot in your retarded idiotic mouth again. If
Bulgarians are indeed descended from Turkic tribes, the original Turkic
mongoloids would have been Siberian cold-adapted mongoloids, who in many cases
are almost as fair as northern European descendants such as myself. Ever seen
many northern Japanese? Oops, I forgot, you've never put the ouzo bottle down
long enough to leave your village. They're "porcelain" colored. This has nothing
to do with the middle east. It is African middle-eastern semitic "Greek"
wannabe white boys such as yourself who would have to be the camel jockey. Many
of my American kinsmen who might not be as liberal as myself would never allow
their daughters to marry a swarthy, hairy Greek. It would be considered marrying
down. But you never let the facts stand in your way, do you dumbass?
Sean
alex wrote:
> Black people are better in basketball than white people. Look at the NBA.
> Maybe that's why you win at basketball.
>
No doubt. And Greeks are known for their kinky hair, just like the
Sicilians who are known to have mixed with Moorish invaders.
Sean
PHALANX wrote:
> No wonder your Afro-Asiatic players beat the "Aryan" Germans (2-0). When it
> comes to soccer blacks/Bulgarians rule.
You're such a fool you're even starting to confuse yourself. How can people
who are descendants of Turkic tribes be Afro-asiatic semites such as yourself?
>
>
> Soccer doesn't require for one to be tall, so there you go. BTW, a
> compatriot of your presented some anthropological data published in Bulgaria
> and showed that the average height in both FYROM and Bulgaria was 1.70 m.
> Greeks are closer to 1.80 m. It must be those Turkic genes of yours that
> attribute to your uglyness, small stature and dark skin complexion.
This probably explains the African component in the Greeks who are lankier
and taller than the Bulgarians, because Saharan Africans are known for their
tallness and lankiness in their limbs to dissipate heat for having adapted to a
hot climate. Come to think of it, some of those Ethiopians do have beaky noses
just like Arabs and Greeks.
PHALANX
Sean wrote in message <381B896F...@pacbell.net>...
Kinky hair? Kinky is the shit your boyfriend performs on your homo ass.
If you look into Ancient Greek sculpture, Greeks have slightly curly hair,
similar to that of Pericles and Alexander the Great. Most Greeks since the
time of antiquity to modern times have had brown hair and brown eyes you
blind faggot. I don't believe you 've ever been to Greece, and if you have,
you must have forgotten to take your sunglasses out. No wonder everything
seemed so opasque to you. :-)
Hehehe... what a joke this guy is.
PHALANX
PHALANX
Sean wrote in message <381B8B4F...@pacbell.net>...
>
>
>PHALANX wrote:
>
>> No wonder your Afro-Asiatic players beat the "Aryan" Germans (2-0). When
it
>> comes to soccer blacks/Bulgarians rule.
>
> You're such a fool you're even starting to confuse yourself. How can
people
>who are descendants of Turkic tribes be Afro-asiatic semites such as
yourself?
How many Greeks have you seen in your life, you imbecile? Apart, from your
Greek father, that is.
>> Soccer doesn't require for one to be tall, so there you go. BTW, a
>> compatriot of your presented some anthropological data published in
Bulgaria
>> and showed that the average height in both FYROM and Bulgaria was 1.70 m.
>> Greeks are closer to 1.80 m. It must be those Turkic genes of yours that
>> attribute to your uglyness, small stature and dark skin complexion.
>
> This probably explains the African component in the Greeks who are
lankier
>and taller than the Bulgarians, because Saharan Africans are known for
their
>tallness and lankiness in their limbs to dissipate heat for having adapted
to a
>hot climate. Come to think of it, some of those Ethiopians do have beaky
noses
>just like Arabs and Greeks.
Did you read the Economist article, you fool? How come then, the descendents
of Greek settlers are the only fair-skinned people in the Arab republic of
Libya? You never come up with facts, just vulgar insults, and when you are
confronted with facts you come up with Greek Ethiopians, white Japanese and
crap like that. You have no reliability left in you, buttface.
PHALANX
PS. Don't send me e-mails again, homo.
Sean
PHALANX wrote:
> Sean wrote in message <381B8B4F...@pacbell.net>...
> >
> >
> >PHALANX wrote:
> >
> >> No wonder your Afro-Asiatic players beat the "Aryan" Germans (2-0). When
> it
> >> comes to soccer blacks/Bulgarians rule.
> >
> > You're such a fool you're even starting to confuse yourself. How can
> people
> >who are descendants of Turkic tribes be Afro-asiatic semites such as
> yourself?
>
> How many Greeks have you seen in your life, you imbecile?
The ones in Athens, Crete, and Korfu for starters, you laughable clown.
> Apart, from your
> Greek father, that is.
Bwahahahahaha....good one! Fortunately for myself, that isn't true,
otherwise I wouldn't be 6'3" and 190 lbs. with wavy light brown hair. Instead
I'd have kinky, greasy, black hair, with eyebrows that connect in the middle,
and I'd only be about 5'6" with a really, really big fat ass. Oops...sorry....I
probably just described you and your entire family.
>
>
> >> Soccer doesn't require for one to be tall, so there you go. BTW, a
> >> compatriot of your presented some anthropological data published in
> Bulgaria
> >> and showed that the average height in both FYROM and Bulgaria was 1.70 m.
> >> Greeks are closer to 1.80 m. It must be those Turkic genes of yours that
> >> attribute to your uglyness, small stature and dark skin complexion.
> >
> > This probably explains the African component in the Greeks who are
> lankier
> >and taller than the Bulgarians, because Saharan Africans are known for
> their
> >tallness and lankiness in their limbs to dissipate heat for having adapted
> to a
> >hot climate. Come to think of it, some of those Ethiopians do have beaky
> noses
> >just like Arabs and Greeks.
>
> Did you read the Economist article, you fool? How come then, the descendents
> of Greek settlers are the only fair-skinned people in the Arab republic of
> Libya?
Fair-skinned relative to who, NORTH AFRICAN SEMITIC ARABS?
Pay attention carefully, you mentally defiicient twirp: the ancient
Hellnes might very well have been a lighter people, as were many Indo-Europeans,
but gradual mixing in with Minoans (people who some scholars now believes might
have originally been Semitic because some headway has been made in deciphering
Linear A script) and the large infusion of Afro-Asiatic types (immigrants,
slaves, etc.) into Greece have substantially altered the original populus.
> You never come up with facts, just vulgar insults, and when you are
> confronted with facts you come up with Greek Ethiopians, white Japanese and
> crap like that. You have no reliability left in you, buttface.
Ooohh....poor baby...did I hurt your feelings? Gee, I could have sworn you
were the one who initiated slinging the filthy insults. Now your complaining?
What facts have you confronted me with you pitiful "if I wish it and say it long
enough I can convince myself I'm actually a Nordic Aryan superman" maggot? Some
article on some sad people in Libya who claim they're the descendants of Greeks?
There are legends all over Eurasia of colonies of people claiming to be
descendants of Alexander the Great's soldiers. Should we accept all these myths
on face value too because a foul-mouthed troglodyte such as yourself might claim
it's true? You'll have to do a bit better than that.
And like it or not, boy, the Japanese are much fairer than Greeks, you
coon.
P.S.: Do you eat a lot of watermelon?
God help me, but I'm really enjoying this. It must be that German sadism in
me. Oh well...
>
>
Sean
PHALANX wrote:
> Sean wrote in message <381B896F...@pacbell.net>...
> >
> >
> >alex wrote:
> >
> >> Black people are better in basketball than white people. Look at the NBA.
> >> Maybe that's why you win at basketball.
> >>
> >
> > No doubt. And Greeks are known for their kinky hair, just like the
> >Sicilians who are known to have mixed with Moorish invaders.
>
> Kinky hair? Kinky is the shit your boyfriend performs on your homo ass.
Homo? That's quite an obsession you've got there fagboy. No wonder they
call it Greek style. You're one to talk, little Greek-style boy.
>
>
> If you look into Ancient Greek sculpture, Greeks have slightly curly hair,
> similar to that of Pericles and Alexander the Great. Most Greeks since the
> time of antiquity to modern times have had brown hair and brown eyes you
> blind faggot.
Yup, you definitely have an unhealthy preoccupation there Greek boy. I
wonder if it's that Greek colony up in Michigan responsible for the spread of
AIDS in the U.S.? Listening to you talk, if you're really representative of
Greeks, makes me think I might become more racist towards you people like many
of my friends from the midwest are. They keep telling me that Greeks are pushy
and obnoxious, sort of like the worst stereotypes about the Armenians and Jews.
I might start believing it. Maybe next time I run into a Pete Sampras Geek boy I
should whoop his scrawny smarmy ass.
> I don't believe you 've ever been to Greece,
I'd probably be resentful and jealous too if a foreigner had actually seen
more of my own country than I had. Don't worry though. I didn't do any of your
women who were throwing themselves at me because I was a tall, rich, and
well-travelled American who didn't have greasy skin and body odor like Greek
guys. As I mentioned before, they're just not my type (it's those darn fat butts
and beaky noses with the semitic droopy eyelids). After all, you know what they
say about the rate of AIDS infection among African types.
KOMIS (Count)
about chauvinism, here is the first indication :"Also we have a history of
fighting for what is ours( one might say we are braver).If Cyprus was ours,
we never would have allowed anyone to take the way they took it from you.".
Your backing that fascioid
>idiot Phalanx somewhat overshadows your statement of having a high regard
>for the Bulgarians.
then your compatriot continues with racistic comments:
According to Microsoft Encarta the birthrate in Greece is one of the
highest in Europe ,which is very common for gypsies)
PHALANX
Sean wrote in message <381BB120...@pacbell.net>...
>
>
>PHALANX wrote:
>> Kinky hair? Kinky is the shit your boyfriend performs on your homo ass.
>
> Homo? That's quite an obsession you've got there fagboy. No wonder
they
>call it Greek style. You're one to talk, little Greek-style boy.
You were the one who mentioned the word kinky all the time, fruitcake. You
wouldn't know anytjing about the Greek-style, the only thing you know is
inbreeding with your trailer trash cousins. An all USA sport. :-)
>> If you look into Ancient Greek sculpture, Greeks have slightly curly
hair,
>> similar to that of Pericles and Alexander the Great. Most Greeks since
the
>> time of antiquity to modern times have had brown hair and brown eyes you
>> blind faggot.
>
> Yup, you definitely have an unhealthy preoccupation there Greek boy. I
>wonder if it's that Greek colony up in Michigan responsible for the spread
of
>AIDS in the U.S.?
The Greeks have the lowest percentage of AIDS in Western Europe. AIDS booms
in countries like the UK and USA. It's the blacks who fuck your women, that
are partly responsible coupled with the large gay communities found in those
two countries. Places like San Fransisco is an AIDS spreading area, you
know, the city were all those WASP fags gather and fuck each other to
extinction. AIDS was imported in Greece by WASP women. Maybe it was your
mother.
> Listening to you talk, if you're really representative of
>Greeks,
I am only representative of myself.
> makes me think I might become more racist towards you people like many
>of my friends from the midwest are.
I really don't give a fuck about you and your hillbilly friends. Do as you
wish.
>They keep telling me that Greeks are pushy
>and obnoxious, sort of like the worst stereotypes about the Armenians and
Jews.
>I might start believing it. Maybe next time I run into a Pete Sampras Geek
boy I
>should whoop his scrawny smarmy ass.
Hahaha...another tough guy is having a rough day with his keyboard and
blames the Greeks for their failure in life. Get a grip jerkoff, you are
cracking me up.
>> I don't believe you 've ever been to Greece,
>
> I'd probably be resentful and jealous too if a foreigner had actually
seen
>more of my own country than I had.
I know you are resentful and jealous of the Greeks, no wonder we look down
on your people.
Don't worry though. I didn't do any of your
>women who were throwing themselves at me because I was a tall, rich,
What you mean to say is that you have a shrimp size penis and you can't get
laid. Thank God you have a large asshole, so your boyfriend can dive inside
there.
and
>well-travelled American who didn't have greasy skin and body odor like
Greek
>guys.
Why, have you been scrabbing yourself to those Greek guys, you homo? What
hapened, they beat the crap out of you,and since then you have a vendetta
against the Greek nation? Poor fruitcake...
> As I mentioned before, they're just not my type (it's those darn fat butts
>and beaky noses with the semitic droopy eyelids). After all, you know what
they
>say about the rate of AIDS infection among African types.
I know, tell it to your mother, who enjoys having sex with them.
PHALANX
>
>
PHALANX
Sean wrote in message <381BAD80...@pacbell.net>...
>
>
>PHALANX wrote:
>> Apart, from your
>> Greek father, that is.
>
> Bwahahahahaha....good one! Fortunately for myself, that isn't true,
>otherwise I wouldn't be 6'3" and 190 lbs. with wavy light brown hair.
Wavy? Is this the new gay cliche of the 90's? Amazing with the stuff one can
learn on the Internet.
Instead
>I'd have kinky, greasy, black hair, with eyebrows that connect >in the
middle,
Here we go with this kink again. Man, I think what really happened is you
were inspired by Lord Byron's experiences, and you wanted to come to terms
with your homosexuality in Greece, but I guess you were hurt really bad in
the process by some mustached Greek sheperd. Then you got ungry and started
hating the Greeks for not sodomizing you.
>and I'd only be about 5'6" with a really, really big fat ass.
Oops...sorry....I
>probably just described you and your entire family.
So you are an expert on my family too? Most are fair-skinned with green and
blue eyes. Not your average Arabs, I presume. That's because they aren't
Arabs as you want to believe, they are ten times more Caucasian than you
will ever be, you half-breed bastard.
>> Did you read the Economist article, you fool? How come then, the
descendents
>> of Greek settlers are the only fair-skinned people in the Arab republic
of
>> Libya?
>
> Fair-skinned relative to who, NORTH AFRICAN SEMITIC ARABS?
But weren't you saying all along that Greeks are Semitic Arabs? I guess you
are not consistent with your statements.
> Pay attention carefully, you mentally defiicient twirp: the
ancient
>Hellnes might very well have been a lighter people, as were many
Indo-Europeans,
>but gradual mixing in with Minoans (people who some scholars now believes
might
>have originally been Semitic because some headway has been made in
deciphering
>Linear A script)
The Minoans were living exclusively in Crete, and the numerous
Doric-speaking Greeks who settled there, found a depopulated island as a
result of the Thera earthquake who devastated Crete. I have some Cretan
ansestors, and they had green eyes and a very white skin. I am telling you,
you are mixing up the Greeks with the Arabs. Are you sure that you went to
Greece and not Kuwait? I mean Americans are known to be dumb and ignorant,
so that wouldn't surprise me a bit.
>and the large infusion of Afro-Asiatic types (immigrants,
>slaves, etc.) into Greece have substantially altered the original populus.
Only a handful of those slaves were imported in Greece and certainly they
had no impact on our civilization. OTOH, over a quarter of the US populace
is composed of blacks, Latinos, Pakistanis and Arab immigrants. Are you
positive you have no black blood in you? A lot of WASP's do. You know,
something like a slave grandma back in the 1800's.
>> You never come up with facts, just vulgar insults, and when you are
>> confronted with facts you come up with Greek Ethiopians, white Japanese
and
>> crap like that. You have no reliability left in you, buttface.
>
> Ooohh....poor baby...did I hurt your feelings?
No, you are cracking me up. You are a funny nut.
< Gee, I could have sworn you
>were the one who initiated slinging the filthy insults. Now your
complaining?
>What facts have you confronted me with you pitiful "if I wish it and say it
long
>enough I can convince myself I'm actually a Nordic Aryan superman" maggot?
I never make such statements to myself. My name is not Sean, remember? I am
not insecure like you.
Some
>article on some sad people in Libya who claim they're the descendants of
Greeks?
>There are legends all over Eurasia of colonies of people claiming to be
>descendants of Alexander the Great's soldiers. Should we accept all these
myths
>on face value too because a foul-mouthed troglodyte such as yourself might
claim
>it's true? You'll have to do a bit better than that.
I am not making such assertions. I just found an interesting article in the
Economist magazine, just to prove to you that you are full of shit.
> And like it or not, boy, the Japanese are much fairer than Greeks, you
>coon.
The Japanese are fine people, and I never compared myself to them. OTOH, I
happened to notice that I have something in common with them. We call
Americans cheeseburgerheads.
>
>P.S.: Do you eat a lot of watermelon?
Do you suck a lot of cock?
>
>
> God help me, but I'm really enjoying this. It must be that German
sadism in
>me. Oh well...
Yes, I am sure your therapist will be glad to hear all about it.
Unfortunately I am not getting paid to help you out, sick boy.
PHALANX
>
>>
>>
>
>
Stef
> >opponent has no regular army, when this opponent is constantly under the
> >threat of a joint military intervention from the victorius allies of the
> >WWI. If you have really studied the history of the Bulgarian - Greek
> >relations then you might recall the collective demarche of the GB and
> France
> >before the Bulgarian government and the Yugoslav declaration for
supporting
> >the Greeks. hence the absurd situation that even the Bulgarian government
> >had to withdraw its support to the military unit involved. Of course, we
> >know that in the Greek textbooks this incident is written with capital
> >letters for it needs to blur off the shame from the preceding "success"
> >against Turkey.
> You are mistaken once more, there is no mentioning of the incident in most
> Greek textbook. Especially in schoolbook history. If you study history you
> would know how it started, and who provoked it. I assure you, also, that
the
> incident is not at all known to most of Greeks.
Funny.... The last time I was in Thessaloniki, at least four people
mentuioned about this. I got the impression people knew about this.
But can you tell us what was
> the condition of Greece when this happened? Not in a better condition than
Bulgaria.
I do not think so. I was referring to the restrictions imposed on Bulgaria
after the WWI: no regular army, no aviation and heavy weaponry, huge
retributions (about 30X the country's GDP). In fact the country was left
only on its police. This was clearly not the case with Greece.
> Also you avoid mentioning the incidents of the WW II when Bulgarians
> occupied Northern Greece as German collaborators. As a small example I
> mention the slaughter of Doxato in 1943, I think.
>
You got the wrong guy!!! I have repeatedly written that I am not
particularly proud with the actions of the Bulgarian troops in Aeagean Thace
during the WWII. I have postings on this both in English and Bulgarian
addressed to scb, big-blue Macedonian forum, the Greek ngs, etc.
[...]
> I think you should first read again your compatriot's message and then
talk
> about chauvinism, here is the first indication :"Also we have a history of
> fighting for what is ours( one might say we are braver).If Cyprus was
ours,
> we never would have allowed anyone to take the way they took it from
you.".
You might want first have a look at the history of the postings and you'll
see that Phalanx's extremely offensive postings appeared unprovoked in the
Bulgarian ng. I myself intervened only when it became clear the guy will not
stop it.
> Your backing that fascioid
> >idiot Phalanx somewhat overshadows your statement of having a high regard
> >for the Bulgarians.
>
>
> then your compatriot continues with racistic comments:
> According to Microsoft Encarta the birthrate in Greece is one of the
> highest in Europe ,which is very common for gypsies)
>
>
Well, this is answer to a series of "racial" postings of that extremist
fellow of yours. Still, if you want to be objective, you might bother to
look closer at the postings. Where do you see in the quotation above that
its original author considers that the gyspies are racially inferior to
other people, for instance? It's tone is surely much more settled and
provides a sharp contrast with the statements of your compatriot (quoting
one of the few): >>> We are the linear descendants of the ancient Greeks,
and the only white people in the Balkans. The rest of you are a bunch of
subhuman Slavo-Turks. You won't find a Caucasoid from between Greece to
Austria, just dirt.>>>
> >Of course, noone is surprised: is there a neighbour of yours you are
getting truly along with? (Serbia is not a neihgbour of Greece, as far as I
know).
> >You are again the only "pure ethnic state" in the Balkans.
> >Don't you consider this slightly peculiar?
> >
> >SN>
>
> I think that the two countries have very good relations. Greece has no
territorial claims and Bulgaria also. Greeks have invested big amounts of
> money in Bulgaria and there is also co-operation of the two countries in
> Burgas-Alexandroupoli pipeline. There are also very good relationship in
trading.
This is true. Although, there were quite a few rather insulting publications
in Greek press regarding Bulgarian-Turkish relations which somewhat casted
doubt on what precisely is the Greek motivation for their reaprochement with
Bulgaria. It took alot of effort to convince you guys, that we just want a
WHOLE-SCALE BALKAN COOPERATION.
Almost the same applies for Greece and other two Balkan countries.
> Albania and FYROM.
I am not very sure about this, although Greece- R.o. Macedonia
relationships finally moved to positive development. Still, there is much to
be done. Same applies to your relationships with Albania.
On one hand, I am aware that it is your business how you run the bilateral
relations with your neighbours. On the other hand, however,
Bulgaria Bulgarias whole effort is directed to a real cooperation between
ALL of the Balkan countries.
I think that we are getting along quite well with
> everybody apart from Turkey.
> Finally you are so prejudised against Greece that you imagine things on
your own. All your blames apply to you and your compatriot first and then to
everybody else.
I do not think that I have prejudies whatsoever against Greece. Here you
clearly see ghosts. In fact, I have been repeatedly accused of having
"unreasonable pro-Greek positions" in my postings especially on the
"Macedonian matter" (although I have a position on my own there). I think
that I have proved my positive feelings toward the Greeks and you will find
quite a few postings on the subject in the Greek, Macedonian and Bulgarian
ng archives: starting with my sincere concern and condolescences expressed
after the earthquake
and ending with my discussions of various problems of Greek history where I
clearly do not put value judgements.
I said: you are aiming at the wrong guy.
SN
Stef
>
> Stef wrote in message <7veink$plm$1...@news.ox.ac.uk>...
> >Obviously, you have never heard of the Kafirs (converted Arabs), the
> >Armenians, or the Thrakesians who were settled in Peloponnese to fill in
> the
> >demographic gap there in the 9th century.
> >Neither you have heard of the Quramites settled in Greece a century
later,
> >neither of the Huns and Avars who settled in Greece in the 7th century.
> >Of course, their genetic impact is insignificant for now, for it was by
far
> >overshadowed by that of the Ottoman Turks.
>
> No, I 've never heard of this Bulgar inspired crap before. But I 've heard
> that you and the Turks are the same people. How shameful must that
feel.....
>
> PHALANX
We do not feel ashamed whatsoever that part of the Bulgars who took an
active part in the Bulgarian ethnogenesis and stateformations might have
been of Turkic origin.
Your ignorance of the matter, however, is regrettable. Turkic for the 7th
century by no means is the same with post-Ottoman Turk in the 20th c. In
fact the fair types among the Alataic Turkic people are much more common
that those among the modern Greeks.
I personally fancy the darker Mediterranean types and by no means am trying
to imply any racial infertiority of the Greeks. Your racist statements,
however untrue, are very insulting and speak more about yourself than about
the others. It is so regrettable that you come from the Balkans: people like
you have earned the region the reputation it has now.
SN
>
> >
> >SN
> >
> >PHALANX <phala...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
Radeff
>
>> Black people are better in basketball than white people. Look at the NBA.
>> Maybe that's why you win at basketball.
>>
>
> No doubt. And Greeks are known for their kinky hair, just like the
>Sicilians who are known to have mixed with Moorish invaders.>>
Sorry, I could not let this one pass by, even though this entire exercise is
not at all to my liking.
The Sicilians were chiefly formed from being a penal colony with the population
having mixed ethnicities. I have Sicilian friends who have French names since
their ancestors were from France yet, of course, they consider themselves
Italians.
HRA
Miros Pimenakis
alex wrote:
> Yes, I said:
> >>According to Microsoft Encarta the birthrate in Greece is one of the
> >>highest in Europe ,which is very common for gypsies)
>
> but our "friend" PHALANX phala...@worldnet.att.net
> is calling us "niggers" and "gypsies" - I think this is racist.
>
> I know people from Greece (some of them are very good friends of mine)
> and they are nothing like PHALANX. They are actually very nice.
> So I want to apologize to people like KOMIS (Count).
Apology accepted.
I also want to apologize for the behavior of this
ultra "Greek patriot" Costas.
Unfortunately this guy had lost any sense of logic a long time ago.
I will tell you one thing based on my previous experience: for
people like Costas the only way you can stop them is to ignore
their racist messages.
Everything else will just make things worst (as you had already seen
by yourself so far).
So ignore his racist messages.
MSP
PS. I am living in Greece and I've never ever heard anybody using the
word "Bulgarian" as an insult.
Sean
PHALANX wrote:
> Sean wrote in message <381BAD80...@pacbell.net>...
> >
> >
> >PHALANX wrote:
>
> >> Apart, from your
> >> Greek father, that is.
> >
> > Bwahahahahaha....good one! Fortunately for myself, that isn't true,
> >otherwise I wouldn't be 6'3" and 190 lbs. with wavy light brown hair.
>
> Wavy? Is this the new gay cliche of the 90's? Amazing with the stuff one can
> learn on the Internet.
More freudian insight into your disease. I'm starting to feel like your
shrink. Are you sure you want to keep revealing so much about your psyche you
sick sodomite Greek fuck? I personally don't want to hear about your twisted,
and typically Greek fantasies. After all, when Greek homosexuality is proverbial
throughout the world, what more can one say?
>
>
> Instead
> >I'd have kinky, greasy, black hair, with eyebrows that connect >in the
> middle,
>
> Here we go with this kink again. Man, I think what really happened is you
> were inspired by Lord Byron's experiences, and you wanted to come to terms
> with your homosexuality in Greece, but I guess you were hurt really bad in
> the process by some mustached Greek sheperd. Then you got ungry and started
> hating the Greeks for not sodomizing you.
As repulsive as such an idea would be to be conceived by a real healthy
white man such as myself, these sorts of ideas are extremely pleasurable and
come natural to a Greek-style poofter such as yourself who obviously gains
immense pleasure from fantasizing about such things. You've just revealed very
clearly who you are. You're not an ouzo drinking drunken fisherman, but rather
a "mustached Greek shepherd", aren't you, Greek sodomite?
>
>
> >and I'd only be about 5'6" with a really, really big fat ass.
> Oops...sorry....I
> >probably just described you and your entire family.
>
> So you are an expert on my family too? Most are fair-skinned with green and
> blue eyes. Not your average Arabs, I presume. That's because they aren't
> Arabs as you want to believe, they are ten times more Caucasian than you
> will ever be, you half-breed bastard.
Aaaaaahahahahahaha........yeah right. Care to scan a picture of yourself
and post it, watermeloneater? I may be a half-breed Germanic-Celt, but at least
I know I'm white stuff all the way. Not that it matters all that much to me. I'm
proud of my heritage, but I don't have a superiority complex with regard to
other peoples. (well, maybe with regard to the Greeks now because of a moron
like you) It usually matters alot to wannabes with inferiority complexes such as
feeble-minded dolts like yourself who are trying to convince themselves they're
something they can never ever be, so they have to put other people down to gain
a sense of self-esteem.
>
>
> >> Did you read the Economist article, you fool? How come then, the
> descendents
> >> of Greek settlers are the only fair-skinned people in the Arab republic
> of
> >> Libya?
> >
> > Fair-skinned relative to who, NORTH AFRICAN SEMITIC ARABS?
>
> But weren't you saying all along that Greeks are Semitic Arabs? I guess you
> are not consistent with your statements.
Let me educate you one more time, you mindless dimwit: Libya is a
hodgpodge of Arabs, Blacks, and pre-Arab Moorish types, also known as Berbers
who live in Libya and also nearby Morocco. Now the original Berbers were
actually a very white people (perhaps it's they who are truly these fair-skinned
remnants). However, one large tribe all across north Africa, the Tuaregs, are
known to have engaged extensively in slave-trading, and now they are
predominantly mixed and black. They are also widely represented in Libya and
have also mixed in with the large Arab population. So when I speak of North
African semitic Arabs, I'm speaking of these negroidal types, not the true
droopy eyelided, greasy, olive-skinned, types like in the middle East or Greece,
who are just a shade lighter. However, even the latter two have a smattering of
negroidal blood that has infiltrated in by now, as can be demostrated by the
frizzy hair of so many Greeks, for example. But this is too much info for a
clueless cretin like you to retain.
>
>
> > Pay attention carefully, you mentally defiicient twirp: the
> ancient
> >Hellnes might very well have been a lighter people, as were many
> Indo-Europeans,
> >but gradual mixing in with Minoans (people who some scholars now believes
> might
> >have originally been Semitic because some headway has been made in
> deciphering
> >Linear A script)
>
> The Minoans were living exclusively in Crete, and the numerous
> Doric-speaking Greeks who settled there, found a depopulated island as a
> result of the Thera earthquake who devastated Crete. I have some Cretan
> ansestors, and they had green eyes and a very white skin. I am telling you,
> you are mixing up the Greeks with the Arabs.
Nice try, but the Pelasgians, who were the indigenous semitic looking types of
the Greek mainland AND Crete were all dark types. As a matter of fact, when the
Ionians and the Dorians insulted each other, they would call each other
Pelasgians, accusing each other of having more aboriginal dark admixture than
the other. So this admixture was already quite advanced even at this early
stage, and even then Greeks such as yourself already had a complex about their
racial taint. Nothing new.
> >and the large infusion of Afro-Asiatic types (immigrants,
> >slaves, etc.) into Greece have substantially altered the original populus.
>
> Only a handful of those slaves were imported in Greece and certainly they
> had no impact on our civilization.
No impact? really? Suuuurre.... Then why is your country such a cultural
backwater today no better than any place in North Africa or the middle east?
You're nothing but racial has-beens and might as well be regarded as part of the
third world. If you compare Greece to the real white-dominated areas of the
world, Scandinavia, Germany, etc. the difference is striking and Greece looks
like a third-world basketcase.
> OTOH, over a quarter of the US populace
> is composed of blacks, Latinos, Pakistanis and Arab immigrants. Are you
> positive you have no black blood in you? A lot of WASP's do. You know,
> something like a slave grandma back in the 1800's.
Nope, my ancestors came over during the early 1900's and moved up north. We
never had slaves, and I sure as heck don't have thick lips, frizzed-out hair,
and dark skin like so many of your countrymen do.
>
>
>
> >What facts have you confronted me with you pitiful "if I wish it and say it
> long
> >enough I can convince myself I'm actually a Nordic Aryan superman" maggot?
>
> I never make such statements to myself. My name is not Sean, remember? I am
> not insecure like you.
Au contraire, clown boy, you've amply demonstrated to be the most insecure
individual to pop off in a newsgroup in a very long time.
>
>
> Some
> >article on some sad people in Libya who claim they're the descendants of
> Greeks?
> >There are legends all over Eurasia of colonies of people claiming to be
> >descendants of Alexander the Great's soldiers. Should we accept all these
> myths
> >on face value too because a foul-mouthed troglodyte such as yourself might
> claim
> >it's true? You'll have to do a bit better than that.
>
> I am not making such assertions. I just found an interesting article in the
> Economist magazine, just to prove to you that you are full of shit.
Here's some advice in logic that may have escaped a low-I.Q.ed mulatto such
as yourself: for real history and archaeology, read history and archaeological
books and journals, not the freakin' economist, you moron!
>
>
> > And like it or not, boy, the Japanese are much fairer than Greeks, you
> >coon.
>
> The Japanese are fine people, and I never compared myself to them. OTOH, I
> happened to notice that I have something in common with them. We call
> Americans cheeseburgerheads.
Oooohohohaha.... Coming from someone residing in a washed-up has-been
country like Greece, why would an American like myself even care what you
insignificant jokers call us? And if the Japanese really call us that too, then
I guess they're less creative and playing second fiddle to cheeseburgerheads,
which isn't saying much about them.
>
>
> >
> >P.S.: Do you eat a lot of watermelon?
>
> Do you suck a lot of cock?
I'm not Greek, so I don't indulge in deviant sexual practices nor do I
fantasize about them like you do. Granted, we have homos like you in the U.S.
now, but we're still doing our darndest to keep them in the closet. You Greeks
should import them to Greece where homosexuality is widely practiced, accepted,
and has even been encourged since as early as Socratic times.
>
PHALANX
Sean wrote in message <381CA952...@pacbell.net>...
>
>
>PHALANX wrote:
>
>> Wavy? Is this the new gay cliche of the 90's? Amazing with the stuff one
can
>> learn on the Internet.
>
> More freudian insight into your disease. I'm starting to feel like
your
>shrink. Are you sure you want to keep revealing so much about your psyche
you
>sick sodomite Greek fuck? I personally don't want to hear about your
twisted,
>and typically Greek fantasies. After all, when Greek homosexuality is
proverbial
>throughout the world, what more can one say?
Greek homosexuality? Then how come we have thousands of female sex tourists,
mostly of your ethnic background, seeking sexual pleasure for the past
thirty years? They are the ones that brought AIDS into our country back in
the 80's.
>> Instead
>> >I'd have kinky, greasy, black hair, with eyebrows that connect >in the
>> middle,
>>
>> Here we go with this kink again. Man, I think what really happened is you
>> were inspired by Lord Byron's experiences, and you wanted to come to
terms
>> with your homosexuality in Greece, but I guess you were hurt really bad
in
>> the process by some mustached Greek sheperd. Then you got ungry and
started
>> hating the Greeks for not sodomizing you.
>
> As repulsive as such an idea would be to be conceived by a real
healthy
>white man such as myself,
Healthy white man? You strike me more as a psychopth, probably a crackhead
as well.
> these sorts of ideas are extremely pleasurable and
>come natural to a Greek-style poofter such as yourself who obviously gains
>immense pleasure from fantasizing about such things. You've just revealed
very
>clearly who you are. You're not an ouzo drinking drunken fisherman, but
rather
>a "mustached Greek shepherd", aren't you, Greek sodomite?
I hardly ever drink alcohol and I don't even know how to fish. Those are all
trailer-trash American stereotypes. You know, drunken assholes who beat
their wives and fuck their daughters. This type of junk.
>> So you are an expert on my family too? Most are fair-skinned with green
and
>> blue eyes. Not your average Arabs, I presume. That's because they aren't
>> Arabs as you want to believe, they are ten times more Caucasian than you
>> will ever be, you half-breed bastard.
>
> Aaaaaahahahahahaha........yeah right. Care to scan a picture of
yourself
>and post it, watermeloneater?
Why are you interested, homo? Tell you what, if you have a sister tell her
to send me her address, I might send her my photo, just to see how real men
look like. Because if she hungs out with losers like you, I doubt she has
been properly gratified. In fact, I will be glad to fuck your entire female
relatives. Who knows? Maybe they will give birth to a green eyed offspring.
>I may be a half-breed Germanic-Celt, but at least
Celt? Are those the little guys our warriors smashed and sent them running
all the way to central Anatolia in 276 BC? The midgets who founded the city
of Angora.
>I know I'm white stuff all the way.
Do you? Now, the Germans are known to possess a lot of Slavic blood, so
there goes part of your white theory. I am telling you, you could be less
white than the people you refer to as "Semites".
>Not that it matters all that much to me. I'm
>proud of my heritage, but I don't have a superiority complex with regard to
>other peoples. (well, maybe with regard to the Greeks now because of a
moron
>like you) It usually matters alot to wannabes with inferiority complexes
such as
>feeble-minded dolts like yourself who are trying to convince themselves
they're
>something they can never ever be, so they have to put other people down to
gain
>a sense of self-esteem.
What is that, I can never be? White? My facial features are all distinctly
Caucasoid, chin, eyes, nose, lips, you name it. When one examines the
Indo-european race, he first starts with the Greeks, your ancestors at that
time were living in caves and e performed human sucrafices.
Anthropologically speaking, the Greeks from antiquity to this day, they
averaged at around 1,80 m, (no wonder the Greek youth type has been
idealized by the Nazis). In recent years, human mummies have been found in
western Europe, and all were male, no taller than 1,50 m, so if we look into
our past I can claim racial superiority over your people, and especially if
I read Aristotle. But I accept you, as my Indo-european cousins. OTOH, I am
not accepting any shit from the Turkic Bulgars who are of Central Asian
extraction.
>> But weren't you saying all along that Greeks are Semitic Arabs? I guess
you
>> are not consistent with your statements.
>
> Let me educate you one more time, you mindless dimwit: Libya is a
>hodgpodge of Arabs, Blacks, and pre-Arab Moorish types, also known as
Berbers
>who live in Libya and also nearby Morocco. Now the original Berbers were
>actually a very white people (perhaps it's they who are truly these
fair-skinned
>remnants). However, one large tribe all across north Africa, the Tuaregs,
are
>known to have engaged extensively in slave-trading, and now they are
>predominantly mixed and black. They are also widely represented in Libya
and
>have also mixed in with the large Arab population. So when I speak of North
>African semitic Arabs, I'm speaking of these negroidal types, not the true
>droopy eyelided, greasy, olive-skinned, types like in the middle East or
Greece,
Again you are mixing apples and oranges here. The Greeks are not Semitic
Arabs from the Middle East, they are of Indo-european extraction just like
you. Most Greeks have dark brown hair and brown eyes, while the Nordic type
is not uncommon, especially in the north. By comparing the Greeks to the
Arabs is like comparing the Germans with the Tibetans. You are a total
jackass, especially after claiming that the Berbers are fair-skinned.
>who are just a shade lighter. However, even the latter two have a
smattering of
>negroidal blood that has infiltrated in by now, as can be demostrated by
the
>frizzy hair of so many Greeks, for example. But this is too much info for a
>clueless cretin like you to retain.
Now wait a sec. How is it that we are negroids and never having any negro
population in Greece, while you claim to be white and you have so many
blacks and Hispanics in your country? Your theory is a joke, as is your
character.
>> The Minoans were living exclusively in Crete, and the numerous
>> Doric-speaking Greeks who settled there, found a depopulated island as a
>> result of the Thera earthquake who devastated Crete. I have some Cretan
>> ansestors, and they had green eyes and a very white skin. I am telling
you,
>> you are mixing up the Greeks with the Arabs.
>
>Nice try, but the Pelasgians,
Oh, I see, now from the Minoans we jumped to the Palasgians. Well, if you
have visited any Mycenaic palaces you would have seen the various paintings
of Greek warrions slaying those poor Pelasgic souls. The Greeks were a
war-like race from the north and virtually wiped out all signs of pre-Greek
civilizations throughout the Greek peninsula.
>who were the indigenous semitic looking types of
>the Greek mainland AND Crete were all dark types.
They were comparable to the human remains found in western Europe, who dated
10,000 years. Those midgets lived throughout the European continent, so I
can equally call them your ancestors. Remember the guy they found in the
Alps? How about the one found in England? How tall and white were those
people?
As a matter of fact, when the
>Ionians and the Dorians insulted each other, they would call each other
>Pelasgians, accusing each other of having more aboriginal dark admixture
than
>the other.
They were the same people who were claimining descent from Gods like
Heracles and Achilles. Read the book "Ethnic Identity in Greek Antiquity" by
Hall.
>So this admixture was already quite advanced even at this early
>stage, and even then Greeks such as yourself already had a complex about
their
>racial taint. Nothing new.
Was Alexander the Great a typical "Semite"? In fact we hear of him being
blond and fair-skinned as well as many Mycenaic Kings, like Agamemnon. Man,
you could be a Semite. You know, how many Jews were living in Germany in the
Middle Ages, up to the 40's? They intermarried a lot with your Germans, and
that's what pissed Hitler and had them killed. So their goes another of your
laughable theories.
>> Only a handful of those slaves were imported in Greece and certainly they
>> had no impact on our civilization.
>
> No impact? really? Suuuurre....
Do you have any evidence to back this up?
>Then why is your country such a cultural
>backwater today no better than any place in North Africa or the middle
east?
Funny, I am sure you never read any Germanic 19th century philosophes and
historians like Droysen, Burckhardt, etc. What one can expect of a trailer
trash? Apart from spending his day at McDonald's or eating Pizza in his
truck.
>You're nothing but racial has-beens and might as well be regarded as part
of the
>third world. If you compare Greece to the real white-dominated areas of the
>world, Scandinavia, Germany, etc. the difference is striking and Greece
looks
>like a third-world basketcase.
Sure, try 400 years of Ottoman yoke.
>
>> OTOH, over a quarter of the US populace
>> is composed of blacks, Latinos, Pakistanis and Arab immigrants. Are you
>> positive you have no black blood in you? A lot of WASP's do. You know,
>> something like a slave grandma back in the 1800's.
>
> Nope, my ancestors came over during the early 1900's and moved up
north.
So before that they never mixed with any Jews, like many other westrn
Europeans have? Right Semite?
We
>never had slaves, and I sure as heck don't have thick lips, frizzed-out
hair,
>and dark skin like so many of your countrymen do.
Where the hell have you seen Greek with thick lips, you lying jackass? I am
dying to meet some. :-)))
>> I never make such statements to myself. My name is not Sean, remember? I
am
>> not insecure like you.
>
> Au contraire, clown boy, you've amply demonstrated to be the most
insecure
>individual to pop off in a newsgroup in a very long time.
Me or you?
>> I am not making such assertions. I just found an interesting article in
the
>> Economist magazine, just to prove to you that you are full of shit.
>
> Here's some advice in logic that may have escaped a low-I.Q.ed mulatto
such
>as yourself: for real history and archaeology, read history and
archaeological
>books and journals, not the freakin' economist, you moron!
My library at home is full of those books. And unlike American trash who
read the National Enquirer, I read top quality magazines, such as the
Economist.
>> The Japanese are fine people, and I never compared myself to them. OTOH,
I
>> happened to notice that I have something in common with them. We call
>> Americans cheeseburgerheads.
>
> Oooohohohaha.... Coming from someone residing in a washed-up
has-been
>country like Greece, why would an American like myself even care what you
>insignificant jokers call us? And if the Japanese really call us that too,
then
>I guess they're less creative and playing second fiddle to
cheeseburgerheads,
>which isn't saying much about them.
When will you realize that you are the laughing stock of the Greeks, the
people you refer to as "Semites"? :-))))))
>> Do you suck a lot of cock?
>
> I'm not Greek, so I don't indulge in deviant sexual practices nor do
I
>fantasize about them like you do. Granted, we have homos like you in the
U.S.
As I said, lack of heterosexuals has led many of your women to seek sexual
pleasure in Greece. Can you imagine how lonely a woman must feel in San
Francisco?
>now, but we're still doing our darndest to keep them in the closet. You
Greeks
>should import them to Greece where homosexuality is widely practiced,
accepted,
>and has even been encourged since as early as Socratic times.
There is no place in Greece like Soho, NY or San Francisco, no matter how
much you claim the opposite, this is fact, fruitcake.
PHALANX
>
>>
>
>
Guentcho Skordev
> to send me her address, I might send her my photo, just to see how real men
> look like. Because if she hungs out with losers like you, I doubt she has
> been properly gratified. In fact, I will be glad to fuck your entire female
> relatives. Who knows? Maybe they will give birth to a green eyed offspring.
But only if you are a man.
Peter The Macedonian
mulato-fuck-thaughts into OUR newsgroups (Bulgarian and Macedonian)!!!
Fuck OFF!
With don't want your slimy messages here!
ALVANOKTONOS AND SKOPIANOKTONOS
ALVANOKTONOS AND SKOPIANOKTONOS
ALVANOKTONOS AND SKOPIANOKTONOS
ALVANOKTONOS AND SKOPIANOKTONOS
ALVANOKTONOS AND SKOPIANOKTONOS
GS
Stef wrote:
> Miros Pimenakis <mi...@stsnet.gr> wrote in message
> news:381C35D7...@stsnet.gr...
> >
> >
> > Stef wrote:
> >
> > > You might want first have a look at the history of the postings and
> you'll
> > > see that Phalanx's extremely offensive postings appeared unprovoked in
> the
> > > Bulgarian ng. I myself intervened only when it became clear the guy will
> not
> > > stop it.
> >
> > And obviously Stef that was the wrong approach. Not only he did not stop
> but it
> > started a war of insults etc.
> > The best thing to do was going to ignore him as I had ignored the
> insulting
> > messages from your people against the Greeks.
> >
> > MSP
>
> Miros,
>
> Would you please quote one offensive posting of mine aimed at insulting the
> Greeks?
>
> SN
Stefan,
When he fails to answer, I'll be gald to let you see a few of his offensive
posts. This is one of his regular methods, to claim fairness and then to
challenge that of another.
Galina
ili...@sympatico.ca
ALVANOKTONOS AND SKOPIANOKTONOS wrote:
ILINDRA ILINDROPULOS ILINDROLAJNOPULOS ILINDROGRKALOPULOS INDO-EUROPPIANOPULOS POLL
Stef
you'll
> > see that Phalanx's extremely offensive postings appeared unprovoked in
the
> > Bulgarian ng. I myself intervened only when it became clear the guy will
not
> > stop it.
>
PHALANX
Stef wrote in message <7vj1ta$ipb$1...@news.ox.ac.uk>...
>Miros Pimenakis <mi...@stsnet.gr> wrote in message
>news:381C35D7...@stsnet.gr...
>>
>>
>> Stef wrote:
>>
>you'll
>> > see that Phalanx's extremely offensive postings appeared unprovoked in
>the
>> > Bulgarian ng. I myself intervened only when it became clear the guy
will
>not
>> > stop it.
>>
>but it
>> started a war of insults etc.
>> The best thing to do was going to ignore him as I had ignored the
>insulting
>> messages from your people against the Greeks.
>>
>> MSP
>
>Miros,
>
>Would you please quote one offensive posting of mine aimed at insulting the
>Greeks?
Stef, I got to tell you this. You are the male version of Galina. You know,
if you ask her about herself she will tell you that she is a Saint, but we
all know her very well. The same applies to you, sneak. Or should I call you
Galinos?
PHALANX
>
>SN
>
>
Nobody
>
> "They colonised areas {the Slavs} of the eastern Balkans and in the seventh
> century other Slav tribes combined with the proto-Bulgars, a group of Turkic
> origin, to launch a fresh assault into the Balkans. The proto-Bulgars
> originated in the area between the Urals and the Volga and were a pot-pourri
> of various ethnic elements, the word Bulgar being derived from a Turkic verb
> meaning 'to mix'. What differentiated the Bulgars from the Slavs was that
> they had, in addition to a formidable military reputation, a highly
> developed sense of political cohesion and organisation."
>
> R.J. Crampton, "A Concise History of Bulgaria", Cambridge, 1997
>
> No wonder the Bulgarians look like dark-skinned Asians. BTW, I don't want to
> see any Slav-Macedonian laughing, since they share the same national origins
> with their eastern neighbors.
PHALLUS, it looks like you don't have a mirror at home, doesn't it ?
Can can a blachish greek bastard call as 'dark-skinned' ? Can, if
the bastard is blind. Are you blind ?
Stef
>
> Stef, I got to tell you this. You are the male version of Galina. You
know,
> if you ask her about herself she will tell you that she is a Saint, but we
> all know her very well. The same applies to you, sneak. Or should I call
you
> Galinos?
>
> PHALANX
Your opinion of me is the last thing I would be moved by. Would you,
however, substantiate this posting of yours. Quote my posting insulting the
Greeks, the Turks, or any other Balkan people on the basis of their race,
ethnicity, religion, etc.
SN
Miros Pimenakis
Stef wrote:
> Miros Pimenakis <mi...@stsnet.gr> wrote in message
> news:381C35D7...@stsnet.gr...
> >
> >
> > Stef wrote:
> >
> > > You might want first have a look at the history of the postings and
> you'll
> > > see that Phalanx's extremely offensive postings appeared unprovoked in
> the
> > > Bulgarian ng. I myself intervened only when it became clear the guy will
> not
> > > stop it.
> >
> > And obviously Stef that was the wrong approach. Not only he did not stop
> but it
> > started a war of insults etc.
> > The best thing to do was going to ignore him as I had ignored the
> insulting
> > messages from your people against the Greeks.
> >
> > MSP
>
> Miros,
>
> Would you please quote one offensive posting of mine aimed at insulting the
> Greeks?
>
> SN
I just said that you and the others should not reply to the original
post of
the great "patriot" Costas because it started a war. You did not insult
the
Greeks
but some of your people did.
I think it is time for all of us to ignore messages of that sort.
Then "patriots" like Costas will stop eventually to post these sort of
messages
if everybody ignores them.
Unless of course if you have a better solution.
MSP
Miros Pimenakis
GS wrote:
> Stef wrote:
>
> > Miros Pimenakis <mi...@stsnet.gr> wrote in message
> > news:381C35D7...@stsnet.gr...
> > >
> > >
> > > Stef wrote:
> > >
> > > > You might want first have a look at the history of the postings and
> > you'll
> > > > see that Phalanx's extremely offensive postings appeared unprovoked in
> > the
> > > > Bulgarian ng. I myself intervened only when it became clear the guy will
> > not
> > > > stop it.
> > >
> > > And obviously Stef that was the wrong approach. Not only he did not stop
> > but it
> > > started a war of insults etc.
> > > The best thing to do was going to ignore him as I had ignored the
> > insulting
> > > messages from your people against the Greeks.
> > >
> > > MSP
> >
> > Miros,
> >
> > Would you please quote one offensive posting of mine aimed at insulting the
> > Greeks?
> >
> > SN
>
> Stefan,
>
> When he fails to answer, I'll be gald to let you see a few of his offensive
> posts. This is one of his regular methods, to claim fairness and then to
> challenge that of another.
>
> Galina
You are the master of that my dear not me.
MSP
Sean
PHALANX wrote:
> Greek homosexuality? Then how come we have thousands of female sex tourists,
> mostly of your ethnic background, seeking sexual pleasure for the past
> thirty years? They are the ones that brought AIDS into our country back in
> the 80's.
Bwahahaha...dream on Greek-style queer; nothing spreads aids the way
Greek-style homo behavior does. Normal healthy white women would never fly to a
country to seek sensual pleasure long know for pederasty. And even though there
might be a miniscule sick percentage who do, since there are sick people
everywhere, I'd bet Greece still gets more homos flying there on holiday than
women, for obvious reasons. Of course, you've done nothing to refute the fact
that Greek pederasty is a time-honored tradition in Greece since very ancient
times. You yourself obviously have an obssession with it since you've repeatedly
insisted on bringing it up.
>
>
> > these sorts of ideas are extremely pleasurable and
> >come natural to a Greek-style poofter such as yourself who obviously gains
> >immense pleasure from fantasizing about such things. You've just revealed
> very
> >clearly who you are. You're not an ouzo drinking drunken fisherman, but
> rather
> >a "mustached Greek shepherd", aren't you, Greek sodomite?
>
> I hardly ever drink alcohol and I don't even know how to fish. Those are all
> trailer-trash American stereotypes. You know, drunken assholes who beat
> their wives and fuck their daughters. This type of junk.
And when they open their mouths, the same type of trash comes from them that
comes out of your mouth. So it it walks like a duck, and it sounds like a
duck.....get the picture? Except that you wouldn't be "white" trash, you are
brown mongrelized Greek trash. However, trash is trash, so it doesn't matter
what the color is.
>
>
> >> So you are an expert on my family too? Most are fair-skinned with green
> and
> >> blue eyes. Not your average Arabs, I presume. That's because they aren't
> >> Arabs as you want to believe, they are ten times more Caucasian than you
> >> will ever be, you half-breed bastard.
> >
> > Aaaaaahahahahahaha........yeah right. Care to scan a picture of
> yourself
> >and post it, watermeloneater?
>
> . In fact, I will be glad to fuck your entire female
> relatives.
I'd doubt you could, little boy, since you've always got homosex on the
brain. However, many negroes wish they had white pussy. Only problem is, the
only thing your bros ever get is the fat freckled types nobody else wants, or
the few whores who sell themselves for money. Even your constant arguments using
sex is typical. Black types always reduce every argument to this, because their
brains are in their crotch. This too reveals the mongrel aspect of the
psychology of modern "Greeks".
> >I may be a half-breed Germanic-Celt, but at least
>
> Celt? Are those the little guys our warriors smashed and sent them running
> all the way to central Anatolia in 276 BC? The midgets who founded the city
> of Angora.
Those warriors are not "your" warriors because the Greeks in those days
were still purer and closer to their ancestral type, even though mixing had
already set in. You are an Afro-asiatic imposter, plain and simple.
>
>
> >I know I'm white stuff all the way.
>
> Do you? Now, the Germans are known to possess a lot of Slavic blood, so
> there goes part of your white theory.
You don't have a clue about anthropology, due you retard? The ancient Slavs
were as nordic as the ancient Germans. They came from around the Baltic/Polish
area. So those white Slavs were just mixing in with white Germans. It's the
Eastern and Southern Slavs who received mongol genes from invasions and
Byzantine Afro-asiatic admixtures from the mongrel Byzantine empire. I'm
getting tired of having to give you anthropology and history lessons fuckhead.
Like I told you before, pick up a real book and stop getting anthropological
info from the Economist you little twit.
>
>
> >Not that it matters all that much to me. I'm
> >proud of my heritage, but I don't have a superiority complex with regard to
> >other peoples. (well, maybe with regard to the Greeks now because of a
> moron
> >like you) It usually matters alot to wannabes with inferiority complexes
> such as
> >feeble-minded dolts like yourself who are trying to convince themselves
> they're
> >something they can never ever be, so they have to put other people down to
> gain
> >a sense of self-esteem.
>
> What is that, I can never be? White? My facial features are all distinctly
> Caucasoid, chin, eyes, nose, lips, you name it.
So? Even pure semitic Arabs without any negroidal admixture also have
distinctly "caucasoid" features you ridiculous imbecile. But they also have
droopy eyelids, frizzy (note I avoid the work kinky now because it always
excites you and stimulates your deviant desires) hair with connecting eyebrows,
brown greasy skin, and noses like anteaters, just like modern Greeks.
> When one examines the
> Indo-european race, he first starts with the Greeks, your ancestors at that
> time were living in caves and e performed human sucrafices.
>
Yeah....and your ancestors were probably still roaming the deserts of North
Africa and the middle east killing each other over waterholes and performing
human sacrifices to the semitic god Baal.
>
>
> >> But weren't you saying all along that Greeks are Semitic Arabs? I guess
> you
> >> are not consistent with your statements.
> >
> > Let me educate you one more time, you mindless dimwit: Libya is a
> >hodgpodge of Arabs, Blacks, and pre-Arab Moorish types, also known as
> Berbers
> >who live in Libya and also nearby Morocco. Now the original Berbers were
> >actually a very white people (perhaps it's they who are truly these
> fair-skinned
> >remnants). However, one large tribe all across north Africa, the Tuaregs,
> are
> >known to have engaged extensively in slave-trading, and now they are
> >predominantly mixed and black. They are also widely represented in Libya
> and
> >have also mixed in with the large Arab population. So when I speak of North
> >African semitic Arabs, I'm speaking of these negroidal types, not the true
> >droopy eyelided, greasy, olive-skinned, types like in the middle East or
> Greece,
>
> Again you are mixing apples and oranges here. The Greeks are not Semitic
> Arabs from the Middle East, they are of Indo-european extraction just like
> you.
You may be too stupid to realize this, but speaking an Indo-European
language doesn't necessarily make you white these days. American blacks who
speak English and modern Greeks who speak Greek are a fine example of this.
> Most Greeks have dark brown hair and brown eyes while the Nordic typeis not
> uncommon, especially in the north.
That's because the north borders Slavic lands, where there is still a
higher percentage of blondes than among the main Greek population.
> You are a total
> jackass, especially after claiming that the Berbers are fair-skinned.
I claimed they were fair-skinned before intermixture, and even to this day
some specimens of the original type do remain.
Perhaps you have a better explanation for why the ancient Egyptians who
referred to the ancient Libyan Berber tribes of "Tamahu" also depicted them in
their stelae as white and fair-haired nordics, and that this has been supported
by mummified remains of yellow-haired individuals in this region?
>
>
> >who are just a shade lighter. However, even the latter two have a
> smattering of
> >negroidal blood that has infiltrated in by now, as can be demostrated by
> the
> >frizzy hair of so many Greeks, for example. But this is too much info for a
> >clueless cretin like you to retain.
>
> Now wait a sec. How is it that we are negroids and never having any negro
> population in Greece, while you claim to be white and you have so many
> blacks and Hispanics in your country?
Simple, you clueless jackass. America is only a country of 200 years which
has been historically racially stratified in its brief history, and my ancestors
have only been here for about 100 years. Societies like ancient Rome and Greece
had many centuries to gradually change and "race" as a concept wasn't as
ingrained in their societies as it is in modern America. Too much for you to
handle?
>
>
> >> The Minoans were living exclusively in Crete, and the numerous
> >> Doric-speaking Greeks who settled there, found a depopulated island as a
> >> result of the Thera earthquake who devastated Crete. I have some Cretan
> >> ansestors, and they had green eyes and a very white skin. I am telling
> you,
> >> you are mixing up the Greeks with the Arabs.
> >
> >Nice try, but the Pelasgians,
>
> Oh, I see, now from the Minoans we jumped to the Palasgians.
The Minoans were considered aboriginal Pelasgians by the Ionians and
Dorians, you clown. There's no jump. It must be humiliating for you to have to
be taught anthropological facts about your own country by a johnny-come-lately
American.
> Well, if you
> have visited any Mycenaic palaces you would have seen the various paintings
> of Greek warrions slaying those poor Pelasgic souls.
Yup, and even many of these Greek warriors are usually depicted as having
black hair and black pointy beards and big noses in paintings and on vases.
> The Greeks were a
> war-like race from the north and virtually wiped out all signs of pre-Greek
> civilizations throughout the Greek peninsula.
Yup, by breeding in with them and forcing their own culture on them.
>
>
> >who were the indigenous semitic looking types of
> >the Greek mainland AND Crete were all dark types.
>
> They were comparable to the human remains found in western Europe, who dated
> 10,000 years. Those midgets lived throughout the European continent, so I
> can equally call them your ancestors. Remember the guy they found in the
> Alps?
You're basing an argument on one mummified individual whose skin has been
altered by millenia of deep freeze? That's it?
> How about the one found in England? How tall and white were those
> people?
Considering we only have skulls and bones, we can't tell what color their
skin was, can we idiot? But the fact you can't get around in a billion years is
that the people of modern day England and Germany and the Alps region are among
the whitest in the world, whereas the Greeks are the darkest in Europe and
aren't even considered white by the former. So regardless of how many
mediterranean types there were in Northern and Central Europe, logic would tell
a reasonable person, but not an idiot such as yourself., that there were much
fewer of these individuals there than among the Pelasgian types of Greece.
>
>
> As a matter of fact, when the
> >Ionians and the Dorians insulted each other, they would call each other
> >Pelasgians, accusing each other of having more aboriginal dark admixture
> than
> >the other.
>
> They were the same people who were claimining descent from Gods like
> Heracles and Achilles. Read the book "Ethnic Identity in Greek Antiquity" by
> Hall.
I know who they were, and this does nothing to change the fact that they
were still adversaries and made these comments about each other. Maybe I'll read
the book you've cited, but if anybody needs to do some catching up on historical
and anthropological facts, it's you.
>
>
> >So this admixture was already quite advanced even at this early
> >stage, and even then Greeks such as yourself already had a complex about
> their
> >racial taint. Nothing new.
>
> Was Alexander the Great a typical "Semite"?
No, and he wasn't Greek either, but a Macedonian, and Macedonians were
descendants of Thracio-Illyrian tribes, not even Hellenes or Achaeans. No cigar,
fool.
> In fact we hear of him being
> blond and fair-skinned as well as many Mycenaic Kings, like Agamemnon. Man,
Like I've said, there were probably still purer types left in those early
Mycenean days, but much, much, much less so today.
>
> you could be a Semite. You know, how many Jews were living in Germany in the
> Middle Ages, up to the 40's?
Nope, I know my family tree and there are no Jews in it, but German and
other central and northern European Jews are still on average a heck of a lot
whiter than your average Greek. Compare Dukakis or Sampras to Kirk Douglas or
Goldie Hawn.
>
>
> >> Only a handful of those slaves were imported in Greece and certainly they
> >> had no impact on our civilization.
> >
> > No impact? really? Suuuurre....
>
> Do you have any evidence to back this up?
I did back up the fact that the impact was great below, and then you
confirmed it with the pathetic statement about Turkish rule below.
>
>
> >Then why is your country such a cultural
> >backwater today no better than any place in North Africa or the middle
> east?
>
> Funny, I am sure you never read any Germanic 19th century philosophes and
> historians like Droysen, Burckhardt, etc.
Regardless of whether I have or haven't, this does nothing to change the
unpleasant fact for you that you're country today is a backassward third world
museum of ancient glory before the gradual mongrelizing of your populus was
completed.
>
>
> >You're nothing but racial has-beens and might as well be regarded as part
> of the
> >third world. If you compare Greece to the real white-dominated areas of the
> >world, Scandinavia, Germany, etc. the difference is striking and Greece
> looks
> >like a third-world basketcase.
>
> Sure, try 400 years of Ottoman yoke.
Which surely also contributed greatly to the infusion of Turkic anatolian
genes into the Greek populus.
But this is still a pathetic weak excuse from a pathetic and weak person.
The Germans lost the flower of their youth in 2 world wars in the space of 20
years in this century alone and they're back! But you're still harping about the
Ottomann centuries. What a pansy! Next you'll want reparations like your cousins
the Blacks in the U.S.
>
>
> We
> >never had slaves, and I sure as heck don't have thick lips, frizzed-out
> hair,
> >and dark skin like so many of your countrymen do.
>
> Where the hell have you seen Greek with thick lips, you lying jackass? I am
> dying to meet some. :-)))
In Athens, Crete, and Korfu, Mr. short-term memory dimwit.
>
>
> >> I never make such statements to myself. My name is not Sean, remember? I
> am
> >> not insecure like you.
> >
> > Au contraire, clown boy, you've amply demonstrated to be the most
> insecure
> >individual to pop off in a newsgroup in a very long time.
>
> Me or you?
Now you're having problems with reading comprehension. I said you.
>
>
> >> I am not making such assertions. I just found an interesting article in
> the
> >> Economist magazine, just to prove to you that you are full of shit.
> >
> > Here's some advice in logic that may have escaped a low-I.Q.ed mulatto
> such
> >as yourself: for real history and archaeology, read history and
> archaeological
> >books and journals, not the freakin' economist, you moron!
>
> My library at home is full of those books. And unlike American trash who
> read the National Enquirer, I read top quality magazines, such as the
> Economist.
Then why aren't you quoting from those books for archaeology where relevant
instead of the Economist, you confused cretin?
>
>
> why would an American like myself even care what you
> >insignificant jokers call us? And if the Japanese really call us that too,
> then
> >I guess they're less creative and playing second fiddle to
> cheeseburgerheads,
> >which isn't saying much about them.
>
> When will you realize that you are the laughing stock of the Greeks, the
> people you refer to as "Semites"? :-))))))
Very uncreative comeback, but then again, middle eastern types have lagged
behind Europeans in the creativity department for some time now.
>
>
> >> Do you suck a lot of cock?
> >
> > I'm not Greek, so I don't indulge in deviant sexual practices nor do
> I
> >fantasize about them like you do. Granted, we have homos like you in the
> U.S.
>
> As I said, lack of heterosexuals has led many of your women to seek sexual
> pleasure in Greece. Can you imagine how lonely a woman must feel in San
> Francisco?
And so as an alternative, such a woman would go to Greece?
The proverbial motherland of homosexual promiscuity? That makes a lot of
sense...tell me more, more,
more........hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
>
>
> >now, but we're still doing our darndest to keep them in the closet. You
> Greeks
> >should import them to Greece where homosexuality is widely practiced,
> accepted,
> >and has even been encourged since as early as Socratic times.
>
> There is no place in Greece like Soho, NY or San Francisco, no matter how
> much you claim the opposite, this is fact, fruitcake.
I wouldn't know because I've never been there. You obviously have been,
following in the finest traditions of your ancestors. Those twisted fruits in
San Francisco are just paying homage to your ancestral traditions. That's
probably why you know about it. When you were there, it was probably as a guest
of honor. Either way, you're a a creepy little guy.
PHALANX
to your opinions as I am to mine. Now forgive me if I add you into my
killfiles, but I have wasted enough time with you, mental midget.
So long, Semite.
Costas
Sean wrote in message <381E38F3...@pacbell.net>...
June R Harton
GS <sp...@erols.com> wrote
> When he fails to answer, I'll be gald to let you see a few of his
offensive
> posts. This is one of his regular methods, to claim fairness and then to
> challenge that of another.
Never fails, does it Stef!
This throwup, Galina, like the rest of the Fyromian revisionists
ALWAYS accuse others of the very FILTH that they CONSISTANTLY
are engaged in.
For every example from Galina, I can post ten of her's!
:)
from: Spirit Of The Real Makedon
(using June's e-mail to communicate to you)!
........The heart of Macedonia was always Greek
Sean
PHALANX wrote:
> Sorry I don't have the time to play anymore games with you. You are entitled
> to your opinions as I am to mine. Now forgive me if I add you into my
> killfiles, but I have wasted enough time with you, mental midget.
>
Real meaning: Phalanx is too much of an intellectual coward and racist
simpleton to face the real facts about his mongrel Greek ancestry and his own
stupidity.
Go with God, you idiot.
Stef
>
> There is no place in Greece like Soho, NY or San Francisco, no matter how
> much you claim the opposite, this is fact, fruitcake.
>
> PHALANX
Right!!! You, Costa made me waste two hours of my time to go to the Social
Studies library and then you owe me 1 GB Pound for the copies of the pages
on Greece of "Spartacus. International Gay Guide 1997/1998" (Sorry, no newer
version available in the library).
We read on pp. 505-6:
"Greece: Greece, that's Athens and Mykonos. Which is true and not true. The
age of conscent is 17 for homosexuals but only 15 for heterosexuals. There
is no outspoken anti-gay legislation , but some laws are open to
interpretation. ....
The situiation for gay men in everyday life is rather bleak. Compared to the
other mediterranean countries they can have a good life, but in comparison
to Europe, Greek gays must still grow in their self-confidence. Gays mostly
take their holidays on the Cyclades, and here mainly on the island of
Mykonos, but some islands, i.e. Santorin are catching up fast. The Greek
islands are a welcome change to the western mediteranean".
p. 511: After a period of of relative inactivity, Mykonos has once again
become a paradise for gay tourists from around the world ... ".
No comment.
SN
PHALANX
Stef wrote in message <7vo1h8$8j7$1...@news.ox.ac.uk>...
>PHALANX <phala...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
>news:7viejq$5au$1...@bgtnsc03.worldnet.att.net...
>>
>
>> much you claim the opposite, this is fact, fruitcake.
>>
>> PHALANX
>
>Studies library and then you owe me 1 GB Pound for the copies of the pages
>on Greece of "Spartacus. International Gay Guide 1997/1998" (Sorry, no
newer
>version available in the library).
>We read on pp. 505-6:
>"Greece: Greece, that's Athens and Mykonos. Which is true and not true. The
>age of conscent is 17 for homosexuals but only 15 for heterosexuals. There
>is no outspoken anti-gay legislation , but some laws are open to
>interpretation. ....
>The situiation for gay men in everyday life is rather bleak. Compared to
the
>other mediterranean countries they can have a good life, but in comparison
>to Europe, Greek gays must still grow in their self-confidence. Gays mostly
>take their holidays on the Cyclades, and here mainly on the island of
>Mykonos, but some islands, i.e. Santorin are catching up fast. The Greek
>islands are a welcome change to the western mediteranean".
>p. 511: After a period of of relative inactivity, Mykonos has once again
>become a paradise for gay tourists from around the world ... ".
>
>No comment.
Mykonos is indeed a fag hangout place, it mostly attracts the Soho and San
Francisco croud. Santorini/Thera is not oriented for homosexuals, it's a
pretty good place if you want to pick up German and Dutch girls. Greece has
places and islands for all kind of tastes. Yo! You should try Thassos and
Chalkidiki, Stef. Lots of Bulgarian and Yugoslav girls over there. I was
there in August.
Shit man, do they have guides for homos in your University library? It
wouldn't be very English like, if they didn't, I presume.
Costas
>SN
>
>
Stef
>
>
> Mykonos is indeed a fag hangout place, it mostly attracts the Soho and San
> Francisco croud. Santorini/Thera is not oriented for homosexuals, it's a
> pretty good place if you want to pick up German and Dutch girls. Greece
has
> places and islands for all kind of tastes. Yo! You should try Thassos and
> Chalkidiki, Stef. Lots of Bulgarian and Yugoslav girls over there. I was
> there in August.
>
I like Chalkidiki -- much better crowd than Santorini, Korfu, Mykonos,
Rodos -- quite alot students as well. Like Crete as well.
> Shit man, do they have guides for homos in your University library? It
> wouldn't be very English like, if they didn't, I presume.
>
> Costas
>
Well, you see, people have different attitude than yours. They believe that
they should have books on everything. I personally believe that this is
great. Otherwise, I should have spent much more time , taking notes from the
book in Blackwells (by no means I am ready to pay 20 pounds for the book
just to provide you with information about gay places in Greece).
The last time I went to Athens, I got the impression, Kolonaki was turning
of a kind of place similar to London's Soho (Soho, as far as I know, in not
exclusively a gay place).
As for the homophobia, similar to racism , it is considered quite a bad
taste overhere. In fact, I have noticed that the two things go often
together - you are a rather good example for this.
SN
June R Harton
Sean wrote
>Costas wrote
> > Was Alexander the Great a typical "Semite"?
> No, and he wasn't Greek either, but a Macedonian, and
> Macedonians were descendants of Thracio-Illyrian tribes
Well, you have been saying a lot of things, haven't you!
Only point I will comment on is the above.
The Macedonians were differentiated by all the ancient historians
from the Illyrians and Thracians.
Also, all the ancient historians described the line of kings as
Hellenes, and some described the Macedonian people as
Dorians similar to the Dorians of Sparta etc.
Modern historians mostly concur with the extract below of
Hammond which specifies specific reasons why the jury should
concur that the Macedonians were in fact a Greek people
who were settled outside of the land that had become
identified as Hellas, which was simply the land that had
been prominent in Mycenaean Greek times:
Taken from N. G. L. Hammond's "The Macedonian State:
The Origins, Institution and History," Calrendon Press, Oxford,
1989, pp. 413.pp. 12-14:"
4. The Language of the Macedonians.
What language did these 'Macedones' speak? The name itself
is Greek in root and in ethnic termination. It probably means
'highlanders,' and it is comparable to Greek tribal names such
as 'Orestai' amd 'Oreitai,' meaning 'mountain-men.' A reputedly
earlier variant, 'Maketai,' has the same root, which means 'high,'
as in the Greek adjective 'makednos' or the noun mekos.'
The genealogy of eponymous ancestors which Hesiod
recorded (p. 3 above) has a bearing on the question of Greek
speech. First, Hesiod made Macedon a brother of Magnes;
as we know from inscriptions that the Magnetes spoke the Aeolic
dialect of the Greek language, we have a predisposition to
suppose that the Macedones spoke the Aeolic dialect.
Secondly, Hesiod made Macedon and Magnes first cousins
of Hellen's three sons -- Dorus, Xouthus, and Aeolus -- who
were the founders of three dialects of Greek speech, namely
Doric, Ionic, and Aeolic. Hesiod would not have recorded this
relationship, unless he had believed, probably in the seventh
century, that the Macedones were a Greek-speaking people.
The next evidence comes from Persia. At the turn of the
sixth century the Persians described the tribute-paying peoples
of their province in Europe, and one of them was the
'yauna takabara,' which meant the 'Greeks wearing the hat.'
[27] There were Greeks in Greek city-states here
and there in the province, but they were of various origins
and not distinguished by a common hat, the 'kausia.'
We conclude that the Persians believed the Macedonians to
be speakers of Greek. Finally, in the latter part of the fifth
century a Greek historian, Hellanicus, visited Macedonia and
modified Hesiod's genealogy by bringing Macedon and his
descendants firmly into the Aeolic branch of the Greek-speaking
family.
[28] Hesiod, Persia, Hellanicus had no motive for making
a false statement about the language of the Macedonians,
who were then an obscure and not a powerful people.
Their independent testimonies should be accepted as
conclusive. That, however, is not the opinion of most scholars.
They disregard or fail to assess the evidence which I have cited,
[29] and they turn instead to 'Macedonian' words and names,
or/and to literary references. Philologists have studied words
which have been cited as 'Macedonian' in ancient lexica and
glossaries, and they have come to no certain conclusion; for
some of the words are clearly Greek, and some are clearly not
Greek. That is not surprising; for as the territory of the
Macedonians expanded, they overlaid and lived with peoples
who spoke Illyrian, Paeonian, Thracian and Phrygian, and they
certainly borrowed words from them which excited the authors
of lexica and glossaries. The philological studies result in a
verdict, in my opinion, of 'non liquet.' [30]
The toponyms of the Macedonian homeland are
the most significant. Nearly all of them are Greek: Pieria, Lebaea,
Heracleum, Dium, Petra, Leibethra, Aegae, Aegydium, Acesae,
Acesamenae; the rivers Helicon, Aeson, Leucus, Baphyras, Sardon,
Elpe'u's, Mitys; lake Ascuris and the region Lapathus.
The mountain names Olympus and Titarium may be pre-Greek;
Edessa, the earlier name for the place where Aegae was founded,
and its river Ascordus were Phrygian. [31]
The deities worshipped by the Macedones and the names
which they gave to the months were predominantly Greek,
and there is no doubt that these were not borrowings.
To Greek literary writers before the Hellenistic period the
Macedonians were 'barbarians.' The term referred to their way
of life and their institutions, which were those of the 'ethne' and
not of the city-state, and it did not refer to their speech. We can
see this in the case of Epirus. There Thucydides called the tribes
'barbarians.' But inscriptions found in Epirus have shown conclusively
that the Epirote tribes in Thucydides' lifetime were speaking Greek
and used names which were Greek. [32]
In the following century 'barbarian' was only one of the abusive
terms applied by Demosthenes to Philip of Macedon and his people.[33]
In passages which refer to the Macedonian soldiers of Alexander
the Great and the early successors there are mentions of
a Macedonian dialect, such as was likely to have been spoken in the
original Macedonian homeland. On one occassion Alexander
'called out to his guardsmen in Macedonian ('Makedonisti'),
as this [viz. the use of 'Macedonian'] was a signal ('symbolon') that
there was a serious riot.' Normally Alexander and his soldiers
spoke standard Greek, the 'koine,' and that was what the Persians
who were to fight alongside the Macedonians were taught. So the
order 'in Macedonian' was unique, in that all other orders were in
the 'koine.' [34] it is satisfactorily explained as an order in broad
dialect, just as in the Highland Regiment a special order for a particular
purpose could be given in broad Scots by a Scottish officer who
usually spoke the King's English.The use of this dialect among
themselves was a characteristic of the Macedonian soldiers
(rather that the officers) of the King's Army. This point is made
clear in the report -- not in itself dependable -- of the trial of
a Macedonian officer before an Assembly of Macedonians, in
which the officer (Philotas) was mocked for not speaking in dialect. [35]
In 321 when a non-Macedonian general, Eumenes, wanted
to make contact with a hostile group of Macedonian infantrymen,
he sent a Macedonian to speak to them in the Macedonian dialect,
in order to win their confidence. Subsequently, when they and the
other Macdonian soldiers were serving with Eumenes, they
expresed their affection for him by hailing him in the Macedonian dialect
('Makedonisti'). [36] He was to be one of themselves. As Curtius
observed, 'not a man among the Macedonians could bear to part
with a jot of his ancestral customs.' The use of this dialect was one
way in which the Macedonians expressed their apartness from the
world of the Greek city-states. [27] See J. M. Balcer in 'Historia' 37
(1988) 7.[28] FGrH 4 F 74 [29] Most recently E. Badian in
Barr-Sharrar 33-51 disregards the evidence as set out
in e.g. HM 2.39-54, when it goes against his view that the
Macedonians (whom he does not define) spoke a language other
than Greek. [30] The matter is dicussed at some length
in HM 2. 39-54 with reference especially to O. Hoffmann,
'Die Makedonen, ihre Sprache und ihre Volkstun' (Goettingen, 1906)
and J. Kalleris, Les Anciens Macedoniens I (Athens, 1954);
see also Kalleris II and R. A. Crossland in the CAH 3.1.843ff.
[31] For Edessa see HM 1.165 and for the Phrygians
in Macedonia 407-14. Olympus occurs as a Phrygian personal
name. [32] See Hammond, 'Epirus' 419ff. and 525ff.
[33] As Badian, loc. cit. 42, rightly observes: 'this, of course,
is simple abuse.'[34] Plu. 'Alex.'51.6[35] Curtius 6.8.34-6.
[36] PSI XII 2(1951) no. 1284, Plu. Eun.14.11.
Badian, loc. cit. 41 and 50 n.66, discusses the former
and not the latter, which hardly bears out his theory that
Eumenes 'could not directly communicate with Macedonian
soldiers,' and presumably they with him. Badian says in his
note that he is not concerned with the argument as to whether
Macedonian was a 'dialect' or 'a language.' Such an argument
seems to me to be at the heart of the matter. We have a
similar problem in regard to Epirus, where some had thought
the language of the people was Illyrian. In Plu.'Pyrrh.'1.3
reference was made to 'the local 'phone,'' which to me means
'dialect' of Greek; it is so in this instance because Plutarch
is saying that Achilles was called 'in the local 'phone' Aspestos.'
The word 'Aspestos' elsewhere was peculiar to Greek epic,
but it survived in Epirus in normal speech. It is of course
a Greek and not an Illyrian word. See Hammond, 'Epirus' 525ff.,
for the Greek being the language of central Epirus
in the fifth century B.C. "
""""
Hammond's details go a long way to indicating that the
ancient Macedonians were indeed Greeks.
Radeff
>>Costas wrote
>> > Was Alexander the Great a typical "Semite"?
>> No, and he wasn't Greek either, but a Macedonian, and
>> Macedonians were descendants of Thracio-Illyrian tribes
>
>
>
>Well, you have been saying a lot of things, haven't you!
>
>Only point I will comment on is the above.
>The Macedonians were differentiated by all the ancient historians
>from the Illyrians and Thracians.
>>>
Yes, then came the time when there was an assimilation of all the dwellers and
that was not exactly modern, either.
So lets go back to what I have been offering you from NGLH. Read it again.
<<>Also, all the ancient historians described the line of kings as
>Hellenes, and some described the Macedonian people as
>Dorians similar to the Dorians of Sparta etc.
>>.
I think we should dispense with the kings.
They did not sire the entire population(s) and we know that many of them were a
mixture, ancient and modern. :)
Now in map 23 of the Migrations and Invasions of Greece and Adjacent Areas, the
Dorians are shown as migrating into Thessaly and not in Macedonia which is
labeled further north. There the migrations are Brygoi.
>Modern historians mostly concur with the extract below of
>Hammond which specifies specific reasons why the jury should
>concur that the Macedonians were in fact a Greek people
>who were settled outside of the land that had become
>identified as Hellas, which was simply the land that had
>been prominent in Mycenaean Greek times:
>>>
Lets consider that Hammond in the aforesaid book, tells of the Strymoni being
originally a Slav tribe that converted to Graecism.
>
>Taken from N. G. L. Hammond's "The Macedonian State:
>The Origins, Institution and History," Calrendon Press, Oxford,
>1989, pp. 413.pp. 12-14:">>
Now I shall submit that the difference is in the dates of publications.
Don't start up again about my being disrespectful to the man.
He wrote it and not I.
A while back, I offered another book about the Hellenes where in this book
there are several historians discussing the pros and cons of several questions.
Hammond is a participant. You should read it.
>4. The Language of the Macedonians.
>What language did these 'Macedones' speak? The name itself
>is Greek in root and in ethnic termination. It probably means
>'highlanders,' and it is comparable to Greek tribal names such
>as 'Orestai' amd 'Oreitai,' meaning 'mountain-men.' >>
From the book on migrations:
"It is probable that the peoples to the south of the Shkumbi valley and Lake
Ochrid spoke Northwest-Greek, being the residue left behind when the migrations
carried many of their kindred into the Greek peninsula, The interrelationships
within this large group of Greek tribes led Hecataeus, writing c.500B.C., to
describe them as "Molossian" tribes or "Chaonian tribes". Thus the Orestae of
the upper Haliacmon valley were "Molossian", and the Dexaroi "a tribe of the
Dexaroi "a tribe of the Chaones, adjacent to the Encheleae"."
Now when I look up the map for the valley above it does not even show Greece at
all.
It cuts off Lake Prespa to the south.
Its from Pec to Elbasan.
Btw, only this reference to the Dexeroi.
[del]
The rest is more of the same relentless pursuit into the grey area of the
historians.
They cannot make up their minds as to the one solution.
The origin of the name, Macedonia, being one example.
Interesting note in this book:
"At Vergina, where the same cemetery was used for Illyrian chieftains........."
HRA
PS
>Hammond's details go a long way to indicating that the
>ancient Macedonians were indeed Greeks.
>
The ancient Macedonians were Macedonians.
areion
> >>Costas wrote
> >> > Was Alexander the Great a typical "Semite"?
> >> No, and he wasn't Greek either, but a Macedonian, and
> >> Macedonians were descendants of Thracio-Illyrian tribes
> >
> >
> >
> >Well, you have been saying a lot of things, haven't you!
> >
> >Only point I will comment on is the above.
> >The Macedonians were differentiated by all the ancient historians
> >from the Illyrians and Thracians.
> >>>
>
> that was not exactly modern, either.
>
> So lets go back to what I have been offering you from NGLH. Read it again.
>
>
> >Hellenes, and some described the Macedonian people as
> >Dorians similar to the Dorians of Sparta etc.
>
> I think we should dispense with the kings.
> They did not sire the entire population(s) and we know that many of them were a
> mixture, ancient and modern. :)
>
> Now in map 23 of the Migrations and Invasions of Greece and Adjacent Areas, the
> Dorians are shown as migrating into Thessaly and not in Macedonia which is
> labeled further north. There the migrations are Brygoi.
>
> >Hammond which specifies specific reasons why the jury should
> >concur that the Macedonians were in fact a Greek people
> >who were settled outside of the land that had become
> >identified as Hellas, which was simply the land that had
> >been prominent in Mycenaean Greek times:
> >>>
>
> originally a Slav tribe that converted to Graecism.
>
> >
> >The Origins, Institution and History," Calrendon Press, Oxford,
> >1989, pp. 413.pp. 12-14:">>
>
>
> Don't start up again about my being disrespectful to the man.
> He wrote it and not I.
>
> A while back, I offered another book about the Hellenes where in this book
> there are several historians discussing the pros and cons of several questions.
> Hammond is a participant. You should read it.
>
>
>
> >What language did these 'Macedones' speak? The name itself
> >is Greek in root and in ethnic termination. It probably means
> >'highlanders,' and it is comparable to Greek tribal names such
> >as 'Orestai' amd 'Oreitai,' meaning 'mountain-men.' >>
>
>
> "It is probable that the peoples to the south of the Shkumbi valley and Lake
> Ochrid spoke Northwest-Greek, being the residue left behind when the migrations
> carried many of their kindred into the Greek peninsula, The interrelationships
> within this large group of Greek tribes led Hecataeus, writing c.500B.C., to
> describe them as "Molossian" tribes or "Chaonian tribes". Thus the Orestae of
> Dexaroi "a tribe of the Chaones Eboieis adjacent to the Encheleae"."
>
> Now when I look up the map for the valley above it does not even show Greece at
> all.
> It cuts off Lake Prespa to the south.
> Its from Pec to Elbasan.
> Btw, only this reference to the Dexeroi.
> [del]
>
> The rest is more of the same relentless pursuit into the grey area of the
> historians.
> They cannot make up their minds as to the one solution.
>
> The origin of the name, Macedonia, being one example.
>
> Interesting note in this book:
>
> "At Vergina, where the same cemetery was used for Illyrian chieftains........."
>
> HRA
>
> PS
> >ancient Macedonians were indeed Greeks.
> >
>
The angient spartas were Spartas
ili...@sympatico.ca
Macedonians were in power, we the Greeks did not exist! We came to the
Balkans hundred's of years after Alexander the Great the King of
Macedonia.Hellenes and Greeks had nothing in common. They spoke a
totally different language. I admit Aegean Macedonia became part of
Greece for the first time in our history when Macedonia was divided in
1913. "
"We deleted the word Macedonia in 1913 and we named it New territory.
Later on Northern Greece, and we only recently revived the name
Macedonia. The Hellenes have been an extinct race for many long years
now. Also we suppressed the Macedonian language in 1936, we changed all
the toponyms in Aegean Macedonia from Macedonian into Greek, we changed
all the first and last names of the Macedonian people. We removed the
Macedonian letters in the churches and cemetaries,and replace them with
Greek letters. We Greeks are still obstinate and refuse to recognize the
Macedonian language we are a nationalistic, fanatical country. The
United Nations, the European Union they don't say anything against us so
we still do these atrocities against the Macedonians in Aegean
Macedonia."
Ilinden
Miros Pimenakis the Ftcogian from the FTCOG wrote:
>
>
> Radeff wrote:
>
>> >Modern historians mostly concur with the extract below of
>> >Hammond which specifies specific reasons why the jury should
>> >concur that the Macedonians were in fact a Greek people
>> >who were settled outside of the land that had become
>> >identified as Hellas, which was simply the land that had
>> >been prominent in Mycenaean Greek times:
>> >>>
>>
>> Lets consider that Hammond in the aforesaid book, tells of the
>> Strymoni being
>> originally a Slav tribe that converted to Graecism.
>>
>
> Why should we consider something the author never did Hope?
> Tell us if Hammond considers that possibility at the first place.
>
> But no matter let's consider it.
> Since the Macedonians were Slavs from the north as were the Spartans
> and the other "Dorians" in Greece then it means that the Greeks had
> common descendants with the Macedonians. If you mean by "converted to
> Graecism" that they were speaking Greek you loose again because so did
> the Macedonians. Just because you prefer to ignore that, does not
> means anything.
> Finally the history of the ancient Macedonia was (since the ancient
> times) and still is under the Greek History as are the histories of
> all the other tribes that formed the Greek nation (Ionians etc.).
>
> Now lets see again what is a nation:
>
> For fair use only.
> Oxford dictionary:
>
> nation n. community of people of mainly common descent, history,
> language, etc. forming a state or inhabiting a territory. [Latin:
> related to NATAL]
>
> It seems to me you had just lost Hope.
>
> Regards
>
> Your little soldier.
>
> PS When will you give me a gun?
Radeff
> The ancient Macedonians were Macedonians.
> ant=20
The angient spartas were Spartas =20
=20
The ancient ermionias were makedones
=20
The ancient Athinias were Athinias
ant the sklaboi ware sklaboi ton makedonon hra kalmira
>>
I cannot find a reference in this book to "ermionias". Is there another name
for them?
"Sklaboi"? Slavs?
I think you should read my quotes about the Strymoni who were originally from a
Slav tribe.
Further more I think its best to understand that I am looking into this book
for answers about the origins of the people of the entire region. I am only
about half way through the book and have more to share later on.
Regards,
HRA
Josif Grezlovski
http://www.gate.net/~joegrez
contempt The dislike was reciprocal, for the Macedonians
have grown into a proud masterful nation which with
highly developed national consciousness looked down
upon the Hellenes with contempt"
Ulrich Wilcken.
a Greek hero, especially to army recruits: The Greeks
of the fourth century B.C., to whom Alexander was a
half-Macedonian, half-Epirote barbarian conqueror,
would have found this metamorphosis as ironic as I
did."
Peter Green [Alexander of Macedon]
going to stop the spring from coming
Miros Pimenakis wrote in message <38236094...@stsnet.gr>...Radeff wrote:
>Modern historians mostly concur with the extract below of
>Hammond which specifies specific reasons why the jury should
>concur that the Macedonians were in fact a Greek people
>who were settled outside of the land that had become
>identified as Hellas, which was simply the land that had
>been prominent in Mycenaean Greek times:
>>>
Lets consider that Hammond in the aforesaid book, tells of the Strymoni being
originally a Slav tribe that converted to Graecism.
PHALANX
Radeff wrote in message
>
>I do not think we should take the words of politicians as being gospel
and/or
>to heart.
No, but when it comes to identity issues, this is a different story. The
fact is Hope, that the majority of your kinsmen identify as Slavs. Those who
don't are mostly emigres to North America and Australia who migrated there
after the 1940's. Name me one poster in here who doesn't fit into this
category.
>They are clearly driven by their agenda(s) to appease certain segments of
>poulation and certain neighbors for economic reasons. They also certainly
are
>not unique in this practice.
Again, you should come to terms with your real idetinty. You are a Slav
wether you like it or not. Most people are OK with it.
Sorry dear, no Alexander the Great lineage for you.
Costas
>
>HRA
John Alep
Ï <ili...@sympatico.ca>
> According to the Greek president Kostis Stefanopulos: "When the ancient
> Macedonians were in power, we the Greeks did not exist! We came to the
> Balkans hundred's of years after Alexander the Great the King of
> Macedonia.Hellenes and Greeks had nothing in common. They spoke a
> totally different language. I admit Aegean Macedonia became part of
> Greece for the first time in our history when Macedonia was divided in
> 1913. "
On February the 20th, Jordan Vesselinof, abassador of FYROM in Canada,
declared " There is a confusion over the identity of "Macedonians". They
have nothing to do with ancient inhabitants of Northern Greece !!!. We are a
Slavonic nation who's language is a dialect of Bulgarian!!"
The same thing has been said by the president Kiro Gligorof and the
Archbishop of Skopje on 1993 !!
Dear Skopjans
Stop rape history
That will punish you hard
John Alep
Macedonia, Greece
Radeff
I do not think we should take the words of politicians as being gospel and/or
to heart.
They are clearly driven by their agenda(s) to appease certain segments of
poulation and certain neighbors for economic reasons. They also certainly are
not unique in this practice.
HRA
Radeff
>>
>>I do not think we should take the words of politicians as being gospel
>and/or
>>to heart.
>>>
<<>No, but when it comes to identity issues, this is a different story. The
>fact is Hope, that the majority of your kinsmen identify as Slavs. Those who
>don't are mostly emigres to North America and Australia who migrated there
>after the 1940's. Name me one poster in here who doesn't fit into this
>category.
>>>
Is it really? Then lets consider Prince Andrew who was the current Prince
Philip of Britains father ahd heir to the Greek throne. I believe the
documentary I watched the other day said he was Danish and German. Should I
believe that rulers and heads of state determine the ethnicity of the populace?
I have not taken any head count as to how my kinsmen identify. Surely, you must
have noticed that the Slavs are not native as in migrating and invading only in
Macedonia (RM)
After the 1940s is a long time and I know for a fact that what you perceive to
be true is not exactly right since you cannot use a broad brush for any
populace.
I will name myself for never was the word, Slav, ever used in my presence in
our Macedonian community until they sent those missionaries who adopted
Bulgaria.They used it as a means to annihilate our identity and did not succeed
in my town.
>>They are clearly driven by their agenda(s) to appease certain segments of
>>poulation and certain neighbors for economic reasons. They also certainly
>are
>>not unique in this practice.
>>>
>Again, you should come to terms with your real idetinty. You are a Slav
>wether you like it or not. Most people are OK with it.
>>>
My real identity is Macedonian. If and when I ever find a link to any other
direct ethnicity I will not hide it.
Most people are not even going through the task of finding out who they descend
from beyond their grandparents.
>Sorry dear, no Alexander the Great lineage for you.
>>>
I do not see where anyone could make this statement one way or another.
There is no proof.
HRA
>Costas
>
>>
>>HRA
June R Harton
from: Spirit Of The Real Makedon
(using June's e-mail to communicate to you)!
........The heart of Macedonia was always Greek
June R Harton
>>The Macedonians were differentiated by all the ancient historians
>>from the Illyrians and Thracians.
Arrian
The Campaigns of Alexander.
Alexander talking to the troops before the battle.
Book 2-7
Penguin Classics.
Page 112.
Translation by Aubrey De Seliucourt.
" ...............There are Greek troops, to be sure, in Persian service --
but how different is theirs cause from ours ! They will be fighting for
pay--- and not much of it at that; we on the contrary shall fight for
Greece, and our hearts will be in it.
As for our foreign troops ---Thracians, Paeonians, Illyrians,
Agrianes --- they are the best and stouter soldiers of Europe, and they
will find as their opponents the slackest and softest of the tribes of
Asia."
>So lets go back to what I have been offering you from NGLH.
>>Hellenes, and some described the Macedonian people as
>>Dorians similar to the Dorians of Sparta etc.
They did not sire the entire population(s) and we know that many
Deucalion1 it inhabited the land of Phthia, then the country called
Histiaean, under Ossa and Olympus, in the time of Dorus son of Hellen;
driven from this Histiaean country by the Cadmeans, it settled about Pindus
in the territory called Macedonian; from there again it migrated to Dryopia,
and at last came from Dryopia into the Peloponnese, where it took the name
of Dorian.
>Modern historians mostly concur with the extract below of
>Hammond which specifies specific reasons why the jury should
>concur that the Macedonians were in fact a Greek people
>who were settled outside of the land that had become
>identified as Hellas, which was simply the land that had
>been prominent in Mycenaean Greek times:
>>The Origins, Institution and History," Calrendon Press, Oxford,
>>1989, pp. 413.pp. 12-14:">>
>He wrote it and not I.
>there are several historians discussing the pros and cons of several questions.
>Hammond is a participant. You should read it.
>>4. The Language of the Macedonians.
>>What language did these 'Macedones' speak? The name itself
>>is Greek in root and in ethnic termination. It probably means
>>'highlanders,' and it is comparable to Greek tribal names such
>>as 'Orestai' amd 'Oreitai,' meaning 'mountain-men.' >>
HAMMOND/OXFORD CLASSICAL DICT. 1996 REPORT on Ancient Macedonia
For fair use only
MACEDONIA - HISTORY
Prehistoric Macedonia, occupied continuously from early neolithic times,
possessed a uniform culture in the bronze age, little influenced by Mycenae,
and was invaded c.1150 BC by a northern people, of whom a western offshoot
may have provoked the Dorian invasion.
Hesiod first mentioned 'Makedon', the eponym of the people and the country,
as a son of Zeus, a grandson of Deukalion, and so a first cousin of Aeolus,
Dorus, and Xuthus; in other words he considered the 'Makedones' to be an
outlying branch of the Greek-speaking tribes, with a distinctive dialect of
their own, 'Macedonian'.
He gave their habitat as 'Pieria and Olympus'. In northern Pieria an early
iron age cemetery of 300 tumuli, partly excavated, has revealed the rulers
there as probably Phrygians and then Illyrii until c.650 BC, when it went
out of use.
At that time a new dynasty, the Temenidae, ruling the Macedonians, founded
their early capital at Aegae (mod. Vergina), situated above the cemetery,
and thereafter gained control of the coastal plain as far as the Axius.
>PS
>>Hammond's details go a long way to indicating that the
>>ancient Macedonians were indeed Greeks.
>The ancient Macedonians were Macedonians.
John Alep
Mr. Radeff,
Are you stupit something.?? Have you forgeted that you begun reffering to
the politician's speashes ???
John Alep
Macedonia Greece.
PHALANX
Radeff wrote in message <19991107061018...@ng-cs1.aol.com>...
>
>Is it really? Then lets consider Prince Andrew who was the current Prince
>Philip of Britains father ahd heir to the Greek throne. I believe the
>documentary I watched the other day said he was Danish and German.
Yes he is, like the rest of the Greek royal family.
>Should I
>believe that rulers and heads of state determine the ethnicity of the
populace?
In your case is not just the rulers of state, but the majority of your
people identify as Slavic too. Don't play games with me by singling out the
politicians as aloof from the rest of the populace. It is people like you
who should be singled out because you are a minority, and have no contact
with the reality.
>
>I have not taken any head count as to how my kinsmen identify.
I trip to your homeland, should be the ideal solution. How many times have
you been there?
>Surely, you must
>have noticed that the Slavs are not native as in migrating and invading
only in
>Macedonia (RM)
No, but they formed permanent settlements there (FYROM), as well as in the
rest of the Slav-speaking world. In your case the local Slavs mixed with the
Bulgars who came a century later than they did, and formed a hybrid race
with strong Turkic influences but with dominant Slav characteristics. Again,
if don't agree with me, this is the scientific perspective, the one
generally accepted today.
>After the 1940s is a long time and I know for a fact that what you perceive
to
>be true is not exactly right since you cannot use a broad brush for any
>populace.
Prove me wrong if you dare. You know that I am right on the emigre issue, so
don't shit me around.
>I will name myself for never was the word, Slav, ever used in my presence
in
>our Macedonian community until they sent those missionaries who adopted
>Bulgaria.
Oh, so now you saying that you were forcibly Slavicized by Bulgarian
missionaries. This is BS of course, but I will let you provide me the
evidence which will back your asertions.
>They used it as a means to annihilate our identity and did not >succeed
>in my town.
:-))))
Do you believe in this nonsense you are writing?
>>Again, you should come to terms with your real idetinty. You are a Slav
>>wether you like it or not. Most people are OK with it.
>>>>
>
>My real identity is Macedonian. If and when I ever find a link to any other
>direct ethnicity I will not hide it.
Macedonian is your regional identity. It became your national idenity in the
framework of federalist Yugoslavia in the 1940's.
>
>Most people are not even going through the task of finding out who they
descend
>from beyond their grandparents.
>
>>Sorry dear, no Alexander the Great lineage for you.
>>>>
>
>I do not see where anyone could make this statement one way or another.
>There is no proof.
A Slav-speaker descented from the ancient Macedonians? Don't get me wrong,
the same applies for people like Vassili, who are so insecure about their
national identity that adopt names such as "Descendant of Philip". There is
no Slav-speaker in FYROM, Greece or elsewhere who is related to any pro-6th
century AD Balkan civilization.
Don't kid yourself.
Costas
>
>HRA
>>Costas
>>
>>>
>>>HRA
>
>
SAMUIL16
you speak!
June R Harton
SAMski wrote
> "Are you stupit something?" Please John Alep learn how
> to speak English before you speak!
Ahem,
FYROM President Kiro Gligorov: "We are Slavs who came to this area in the
sixth century . . . we are not descendants of the ancient Macedonians."
(President of FYROM Ciro Gligorov, from the Foreign Information Service
Daily Report, Eastern Europe, February 26, 1992, p. 35. )
P Gevgeliev wrote in "Skopje revives macedonian spectre", Free
Bulgaria,pp229-230,
It is true that we have given up the teaching of "Macedonian history", a
high falutin term for the ravings of a handful of maniacs in Skopje who are
so far gone in their nationalistic dementia and mental aberration as to
claim that the present "Macedonian" people are descendants of
Alexander the Great.
These "historians" seem to overlook the fact that the Slav tribes came to
this territory fully a thousand years after the death of Alexander the
Macedon."
PHALANX
ANCIENT MAC'S AND THAT THE GREEKS ARE THE DESCENDANTS OF THE SLAVS?
GIVE ME A BREAK, HOPE!!!
YOU ARE UNBELIEVABLE!!!!!! GO AHEAD AND LIE TO YOURSELF AS MUCH AS YOU WANT
BUT I FORBID YOU TO SHIT ON MY FACE WITH YOUR MENTAL DIARRHEA.
WHY DO YOU SPEAK A SLAVIC LANGUAGE HOPE? WHY IS EVERYBODY CALLING YOU SLAVS?
WHY DID THE ANCIENTS HELLENIZE THE WORLD? WHY WERE THEIR NAMES GREEK? WHY
WERE THEIR MONTHS GREEK? WHY DID THEY SPEAK GREEK? WHY WERE ONLY GREEK
INSCRIPTIONS FOUND IN MACEDONIA?
1+1 = 2.
PHALANX
Radeff wrote in message <19991107210022...@ng-fh1.aol.com>...
>>Radeff wrote in message <19991107061018...@ng-cs1.aol.com>...
>>
>>>
>>>Is it really? Then lets consider Prince Andrew who was the current Prince
>>>Philip of Britains father ahd heir to the Greek throne. I believe the
>>>documentary I watched the other day said he was Danish and German.
>>
>>Yes he is, like the rest of the Greek royal family.
>>
>> >Should I
>>>believe that rulers and heads of state determine the ethnicity of the
>>populace?
>>>.
>
>>In your case is not just the rulers of state, but the majority of your
>>people identify as Slavic too. Don't play games with me by singling out
the
>>politicians as aloof from the rest of the populace. It is people like you
>>who should be singled out because you are a minority, and have no contact
>>with the reality.
>>>.
>
>I did not single out the politicians. That was originally posted by
others.I
>was replying to them.
>I do not play games. Correction -I do like trivial pursuit.
>Did someone take a poll about Slavs in Macedonia (RM)?
>
>>>
>>>I have not taken any head count as to how my kinsmen identify.
>>>>
>
><<>I trip to your homeland, should be the ideal solution. How many times
have
>>you been there?
>>>>
>
>Quite a few. Its prospering after they built the casino. Its not my idea of
a
>good time, though.
>
>> >Surely, you must
>>>have noticed that the Slavs are not native as in migrating and invading
>>only in
>>>Macedonia (RM)
>>>.
>
><<>No, but they formed permanent settlements there (FYROM), as well as in
the
>>rest of the Slav-speaking world. In your case the local Slavs mixed with
the
>>Bulgars who came a century later than they did, and formed a hybrid race
>>with strong Turkic influences but with dominant Slav characteristics.
Again,
>>if don't agree with me, this is the scientific perspective, the one
>>generally accepted today.
>>>>
>
>I believe I feel a quote being found in the current book from Hammond.
>Look for posts in that respect.
>
>>
>>>After the 1940s is a long time and I know for a fact that what you
perceive
>>to
>>>be true is not exactly right since you cannot use a broad brush for any
>>>populace.
>>>>
>
><<>Prove me wrong if you dare. You know that I am right on the emigre
issue, so
>>don't shit me around.
>>>>
>
>I will let the written texts do the job.
>Later.
>
>
>>>I will name myself for never was the word, Slav, ever used in my presence
>>in
>>>our Macedonian community until they sent those missionaries who adopted
>>>Bulgaria.
>>>>
>
><<>Oh, so now you saying that you were forcibly Slavicized by Bulgarian
>>missionaries. This is BS of course, but I will let you provide me the
>>evidence which will back your asertions.
>>>>
>
>Nope - I am saying that my people [i.e. ancestors] kept their Macedonian
>identity intact through all the hells they had to experience.
>
>>
>>>They used it as a means to annihilate our identity and did not >succeed
>>>in my town.
>>
>>:-))))
>>
>>Do you believe in this nonsense you are writing?
>>>>
>
>Not nonsense. Truth.
>
>>>>Again, you should come to terms with your real idetinty. You are a Slav
>>>>wether you like it or not. Most people are OK with it.
>>>>>>
>>>
>>>My real identity is Macedonian. If and when I ever find a link to any
other
>>>direct ethnicity I will not hide it.
>>>.
>
><<>Macedonian is your regional identity. It became your national idenity in
the
>>framework of federalist Yugoslavia in the 1940's.
>>>>
>
>Nation:a body of persons associated with a particular territory
>Region: an indefinite portion of territory or space, usually of
considerable
>extent
>Territory:any considerable tract of land
>Identity:the state of being a specific person and no other
>
>1940 was a mere formality.
>
>
>>>
>>>Most people are not even going through the task of finding out who they
>>descend
>>>from beyond their grandparents.
>>>
>>>>Sorry dear, no Alexander the Great lineage for you.
>>>>>>
>>>
>>>I do not see where anyone could make this statement one way or another.
>>>There is no proof.
>
><<>A Slav-speaker descented from the ancient Macedonians? Don't get me
wrong,
>>the same applies for people like Vassili, who are so insecure about their
>>national identity that adopt names such as "Descendant of Philip". There
is
>>no Slav-speaker in FYROM, Greece or elsewhere who is related to any
pro-6th
>>century AD Balkan civilization.
>>>>
>
>Proof?
>
>>Don't kid yourself.
>>>>
>
>I don't.
>HRA
>
>>Costas
>>
>>>
>>>HRA
>>>>Costas
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>HRA
>>>
>
Josef Mengele
macedonia prior to 1913?
why were greeks the minority in athens in 1850?
greeks are liars. they are theives.
PHALANX wrote in message <805cas$b8p$1...@bgtnsc02.worldnet.att.net>...
Radeff
>>.
I do not like this format.
Whats with the grouchiness?
Have a bad little hiatus?
:)
>------=_NextPart_000_01C6_01BF28E9.E5D38980
>Content-Type: text/plain;
> charset="iso-8859-1"
>Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>
>Hope, you are hopelessly confused!!!!!!!! And that idiot Absurdity left
>you confused!!!!!!=20
>>>
(sigh) I am chiefly quoting Hammond here.
>You wrote:
>
>>Spirit wrote
>>>Only point I will comment on is the above.
>>>The Macedonians were differentiated by all the ancient historians
>>>from the Illyrians and Thracians.
>
>
>>Yes, then came the time when there was an assimilation of all the
>>dwellers and that was not exactly modern, either.
>>>
<<>Illyrians were in Fyrom, Thracians were in Thrace, they were=20
>not 'assimilated' into "Macedonians":
>>>
Really? Please pay attention to my series on Hammond's book as it unfolds
-close attention, please.
>LYNGOS wrote:
>Arrian
>The Campaigns of Alexander.
>Alexander talking to the troops before the battle.
>Book 2-7
>Penguin Classics.
>Page 112.
>Translation by Aubrey De Seliucourt.
>" ...............There are Greek troops, to be sure, in Persian service =
>--
>but how different is theirs cause from ours ! They will be fighting for
>pay--- and not much of it at that; we on the contrary shall fight for
>Greece, and our hearts will be in it.
>As for our foreign troops ---Thracians, Paeonians, Illyrians,
>Agrianes --- they are the best and stouter soldiers of Europe, and they
>will find as their opponents the slackest and softest of the tribes of
>Asia."
>
>>>
>>So lets go back to what I have been offering you from NGLH.
>>Read it again.
>>>Also, all the ancient historians described the line of kings as
>>>Hellenes, and some described the Macedonian people as
>>>Dorians similar to the Dorians of Sparta etc.
>>>
>I think we should dispense with the kings.
>They did not sire the entire population(s) and we know that many
>of them were a mixture, ancient and modern. :)=20
>>>
<<>You dispense what you please, but that goes for your ancestors
>too. As for the rest of us, we will tell it like it is.
>>.
Brat! What do you think I am doing in quoting this book? I am telling it like
it is.
>>Now in map 23 of the Migrations and Invasions of Greece and
>>Adjacent Areas, the Dorians are shown as migrating into Thessaly
>>and not in Macedonia which is labeled further north. There the
>>migrations are Brygoi.
>
<<>Herodotus Histories:=20
>
>[1.56.3] For in the days of king
>Deucalion1 it inhabited the land of Phthia, then the country called
>Histiaean, under Ossa and Olympus, in the time of Dorus son of Hellen;
>driven from this Histiaean country by the Cadmeans, it settled about =
>Pindus
>in the territory called Macedonian; from there again it migrated to =
>Dryopia,
>and at last came from Dryopia into the Peloponnese, where it took the =
>name
>of Dorian.
>>.
Then what does this quote from the Hammond book mean -"so-called Dorians"?
>=20
>>Modern historians mostly concur with the extract below of
>>Hammond which specifies specific reasons why the jury should
>>concur that the Macedonians were in fact a Greek people
>>who were settled outside of the land that had become
>>identified as Hellas, which was simply the land that had
>>been prominent in Mycenaean Greek times:
>>>
>Lets consider that Hammond in the aforesaid book, tells of the
>Strymoni being originally a Slav tribe that converted to Graecism.=20
>
>>>
>That was FOURTEEN HUNDRED YEARS LATER, Rads!!!!!!!!
>IN A DIFFERENT AREA!!!!!!
>Stop it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!>>
Excuse me.
Later is closer to now and of more value in finding out who is who.
Remember this title says migrations and invasions.
Btw, next chapter will be earlier -much earlier.
>
>
>>>Taken from N. G. L. Hammond's "The Macedonian State:
>>>The Origins, Institution and History," Calrendon Press, Oxford,
>>>1989, pp. 413.pp. 12-14:">>
>
>>Now I shall submit that the difference is in the dates of publications.
>>Don't start up again about my being disrespectful to the man.=20
>>He wrote it and not I.
>
>>.
<<>That's enough with those statements of yours. There is no differences.
>It is simply that you apparantly do not understand what you are reading.
>>.
Why? I have more to share with you.
Look for the latest this evening.
>
>>A while back, I offered another book about the Hellenes where in this =
>book
>>there are several historians discussing the pros and cons of several =
>questions.
>>Hammond is a participant. You should read it.
>>.
>Don't waste my time.=20
>=20>>
Granted.
>>>4. The Language of the Macedonians.
>>>What language did these 'Macedones' speak? The name itself
>>>is Greek in root and in ethnic termination. It probably means
>>>'highlanders,' and it is comparable to Greek tribal names such
>>>as 'Orestai' amd 'Oreitai,' meaning 'mountain-men.' >>
>
>>From the book on migrations:
>
>>.
>You then post some information which doesn't affect the issue
>so I am not going to be diverted 'elsewhere' young Lady!
>>>
Whoa -major case of grouch.
>
>>The origin of the name, Macedonia, being one example.
>
>>Interesting note in this book:
>>"At Vergina, where the same cemetery was used for Illyrian =
>chieftains........."
>
>Oh, you want more information on that:
>>>
Sure.
>HAMMOND/OXFORD CLASSICAL DICT. 1996 REPORT on Ancient Macedonia
>
>
>From:http://sersun1.essex.ac.uk/~jprodr/macanchis.html
>For fair use only
>
>
>MACEDONIA - HISTORY
>
>
>
>Prehistoric Macedonia, occupied continuously from early neolithic times,
>possessed a uniform culture in the bronze age, little influenced by =
>Mycenae,
>and was invaded c.1150 BC by a northern people, of whom a western =
>offshoot
>may have provoked the Dorian invasion.
>
>Hesiod first mentioned 'Makedon', the eponym of the people and the =
>country,
>as a son of Zeus, a grandson of Deukalion, and so a first cousin of =
>Aeolus,
>Dorus, and Xuthus; in other words he considered the 'Makedones' to be an
>outlying branch of the Greek-speaking tribes, with a distinctive dialect =
>of
>their own, 'Macedonian'.
>
>He gave their habitat as 'Pieria and Olympus'. In northern Pieria an =
>early
>iron age cemetery of 300 tumuli, partly excavated, has revealed the =
>rulers
>there as probably Phrygians and then Illyrii until c.650 BC, when it =
>went
>out of use.
>
>At that time a new dynasty, the Temenidae, ruling the Macedonians, =
>founded
>their early capital at Aegae (mod. Vergina), situated above the =
>cemetery,
>and thereafter gained control of the coastal plain as far as the Axius.
>>>
Now I am at the earlier time. I will get to this time later.
>
>>HRA =20
> =20
>>PS
>>>Hammond's details go a long way to indicating that the
>>>ancient Macedonians were indeed Greeks.
>>The ancient Macedonians were Macedonians.
>
>Oh, I see, you know better than all the ancient historians who
>were there, and all of the mainstream modern historians!
>>>
But my dear, I am quoting a modern historian. :)
Stay tuned.
>
>
>Now, stop denying the proclaim ethnicity of the Macedonians=20
>by the Macedonians, GREEK!!!!!!!!!
>>.
God -this had to be some weekend in hell.
Stop shouting!!!
HRA
Radeff
John, did you forget I am a femina?
Its been a long time since we interchanged our thoughts here so I suppose it is
possible to forget
Now was that a nice way to reappear here?
Calling me "stupit"(sic) stupid?
How about telling us what you are referring to here?
HRA
USA
.
Radeff
Radeff
>> "Are you stupit something?" Please John Alep learn how
>> to speak English before you speak!
>
>Ahem,
ok John can't help it and its not nice to be discriminatory.
I will offer John help if he asks me.
You, Vapo, got a frog caught in your throat?
Geez!
HRA
June R Harton
> then why were there no greeks (grkomans and vlach bastards dont count) in
> macedonia prior to 1913?
You are forgetting Southern Macedonia aren't you?
>And, yes indeed the Patriarchists and Greek Vlach sure do count!
"They kicked your butt didn't they!", as some would say.
>Why were greeks the minority in athens in 1850?
That is also a lie.
:)
June R Harton
Rads wrote
> >This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
Me too!
> Whats with the grouchiness?
> Have a bad little hiatus?
> :)
Told you. Computer got ''upgraded'' to IE 5.00
> >Hope, you are hopelessly confused!!!!!!!! And that idiot Absurdity left
> >you confused!!!!!!
> (sigh) I am chiefly quoting Hammond here.
Their is nothing wrote withquoting. It is your apparant inability
to differentiate between TIMES and PLACES and PEOPLES!
> >You wrote:
> >>Spirit wrote
> >>>Only point I will comment on is the above.
> >>>The Macedonians were differentiated by all the ancient historians
> >>>from the Illyrians and Thracians.
> >>Yes, then came the time when there was an assimilation of all the
> >>dwellers and that was not exactly modern, either.
> <<>Illyrians were in Fyrom, Thracians were in Thrace, they were=20
> >not 'assimilated' into "Macedonians":
> Really? Please pay attention to my series on Hammond's book as it unfolds
> -close attention, please.
You pay attention NOW. The Illyrians and Thracians of the land
where Fyrom is and the land where Thrace was were NOT assimilated
by the ancient Macedonians!!!!!!! You will not find that in history for
that did not happen.
You will also find that you are also mistaking the Bulgarians and
Slavs in _FYROM_ for Slavs that were found south of there.
You are reading about GREECE and talking about GREECE
you are not reading a book about your Voulgari people in Fyrom
and say OHRID!
Stop confusing yourself and thus misleading others!!!!!!
> Brat! What do you think I am doing in quoting this book?
> I am telling it like it is.
:)
> >>Now in map 23 of the Migrations and Invasions of Greece and
> >>Adjacent Areas, the Dorians are shown as migrating into Thessaly
> >>and not in Macedonia which is labeled further north. There the
> >>migrations are Brygoi.
> <<>Herodotus Histories:=20
> >[1.56.3] For in the days of king
> >Deucalion1 it inhabited the land of Phthia, then the country called
> >Histiaean, under Ossa and Olympus, in the time of Dorus son of Hellen;
> >driven from this Histiaean country by the Cadmeans, it settled about =
> >Pindus
> >in the territory called Macedonian; from there again it migrated to =
> >Dryopia,
> >and at last came from Dryopia into the Peloponnese, where it took the =
> >name
> >of Dorian.
> Then what does this quote from the Hammond book mean -"so-called Dorians"?
Well, they could of kept the name Makednon couldn't they. But the text says
they changed there name to 'Dorian' thus ''so-called Dorians''.
> >>Modern historians mostly concur with the extract below of
> >>Hammond which specifies specific reasons why the jury should
> >>concur that the Macedonians were in fact a Greek people
> >>who were settled outside of the land that had become
> >>identified as Hellas, which was simply the land that had
> >>been prominent in Mycenaean Greek times:
> >Lets consider that Hammond in the aforesaid book, tells of the
> >Strymoni being originally a Slav tribe that converted to Graecism
> >That was FOURTEEN HUNDRED YEARS LATER, Rads!!!!!!!!
> >IN A DIFFERENT AREA!!!!!!
> >Stop it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!>>
> Excuse me.
> Later is closer to now and of more value in finding out who is who.
hahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
What are you talking about?????!!!!!!!
You jump from the ancient Macedonians to the 'Strymoni' which have
nothing to do with the situation.
> Remember this title says migrations and invasions.
> Btw, next chapter will be earlier -much earlier.
> >It is simply that you apparantly do not understand what you are reading.
> Why? I have more to share with you.
> Look for the latest this evening.
Because you talk of differences when you have not posted any
but you imply you have!
:)
> >You then post some information which doesn't affect the issue
> >so I am not going to be diverted 'elsewhere' young Lady!
> Whoa -major case of grouch.
:)
> >He gave their habitat as 'Pieria and Olympus'. In northern Pieria an =
> >early
> >iron age cemetery of 300 tumuli, partly excavated, has revealed the =
> >rulers
> >there as probably Phrygians and then Illyrii until c.650 BC, when it =
> >went
> >out of use.
> >At that time a new dynasty, the Temenidae, ruling the Macedonians, =
> >founded
> >their early capital at Aegae (mod. Vergina), situated above the =
> >cemetery,
> >and thereafter gained control of the coastal plain as far as the Axius.
> Now I am at the earlier time. I will get to this time later.
What are you refering to now? The above says 650_B.C._
> >Oh, I see, you know better than all the ancient historians who
> >were there, and all of the mainstream modern historians!
> But my dear, I am quoting a modern historian. :)
But you are claiming that what you have written says something
other than what we have been telling you, and it doesn't.
> Stay tuned.
> >Now, stop denying the proclaimed ethnicity of the Macedonians=20
> >by the Macedonians, GREEK!!!!!!!!!
> God -this had to be some weekend in hell.
> Stop shouting!!!
Sorry. IE 5.00!!!!!!
:)
June R Harton
Spirit!
Radeff <rad...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:19991108214219...@ng-fn1.aol.com...
> >AFTER READING HAMMOND, YOU CONCLUDE THAT YOU ARE THE DESCENDENTS OF THE
> >ANCIENT MAC'S AND THAT THE GREEKS ARE THE DESCENDANTS OF THE SLAVS?
> >
> >GIVE ME A BREAK, HOPE!!!
> >
> >YOU ARE UNBELIEVABLE!!!!!! GO AHEAD AND LIE TO YOURSELF AS MUCH AS YOU
WANT
> >BUT I FORBID YOU TO SHIT ON MY FACE WITH YOUR MENTAL DIARRHEA.
> >
> >WHY DO YOU SPEAK A SLAVIC LANGUAGE HOPE? WHY IS EVERYBODY CALLING YOU
SLAVS?
> >WHY DID THE ANCIENTS HELLENIZE THE WORLD? WHY WERE THEIR NAMES GREEK? WHY
> >WERE THEIR MONTHS GREEK? WHY DID THEY SPEAK GREEK? WHY WERE ONLY GREEK
> >INSCRIPTIONS FOUND IN MACEDONIA?
> >
> >1+1 = 2.
> >
> >PHALANX
>
> Why are you shouting at me? geez!
>
> The quotes are Hammond's findings and not mine. Lord, I did not even know
a
> Strymoni from a Stromboli before I started reading his book.
>
> Who said -"I'm glad you are finally reading history?" or words to that
effect.
> Must have been the Aga. Right?
>
> Yuk!
>
> Why do I speak Spanish? How come I can converse somewhat in Italian? How
come I
> once had a British accent?
>
> HRA
> Ps Thanks for the headache-bah!
June R Harton
hahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahhahahaha
June R Harton
Rads wrote
> <<>You pay attention NOW. The Illyrians and Thracians of the land
> >where Fyrom is and the land where Thrace was were NOT assimilated
> >by the ancient Macedonians!!!!!!! You will not find that in history for
> >that did not happen.>.
> Pooh! There are Illyrian chieftains graves in Vergina.
hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
Radeff, slowly slowly, I am saying that THOSE Illyrians in the area
of fYrom and those Thracians in the area of Thrace DID NOT
bedome one huge, happy camp of _Macedonians_.
I am not saying that Illyrians and Thracians IN Greece were not assimilated.
> I suppose there had to be a sale on plots and they took advantage of the
deal.
> How about the Preceramic Neolithic Period for Thessaly? Is this early
enough?
> Taken from the Migrations and Invasion in Greece and Adjacent Areas by
Nicholas
> G.L. Hammond
> For fair use only
> "That the first settlers came to Thessaly from the Near East seems to be
most
> probable. The earliest layers of the three excavated sites at Argissa,
Souphli
> and Sesklo show a full-fledged civilisation and no preliminary stages to
it,
> and the appropriate precendents are to be seen in the Near East,
especially in
> Anatolia. It is possible that the first explorers came by boat, but it is
> probable that the majority of the settlers came by land, bringing some
> domesticated animals with them, and moving gradually along the Thracian
coast,
> rather than that they all came by sea and had to begin again with the
> domesticating of the wild animals of Thessaly. If they came both by sea
and by
> land, they resembled the Slavs in this respect."
That was an unfortunate use of 'Slavs' just to confuse you
The rest is just fine Hope.
:)
<<>You will also find that you are also mistaking the Bulgarians and
> >Slavs in _FYROM_ for Slavs that were found south of there.>.
> Now where in all the writings here of Slavs, did any one differentiate
among
> them?
You are missing the point!!!!!!!!!!!!
> <<>You are reading about GREECE and talking about GREECE
> >you are not reading a book about your Voulgari people in Fyrom
> >and say OHRID!
> >Stop confusing yourself and thus misleading others!!!!!!
> Excuse me. Read the title above.
Yes but the emphasis is what is happening in Greece, not what
is happening in Fyrom or Thrace meanwhile.
> FYI, Ochrid is mentioned in this book as well as Monastir/Bitola and other
> locations in Macedonia (RM)
Yes, of course!
>>>>>it settled about Pindus
> >> >in the territory called Macedonian; from there again it migrated to =
> >> >Dryopia,
> >> >and at last came from Dryopia into the Peloponnese, where it took the
=
> >> >name
> >> >of Dorian.
> >> Then what does this quote from the Hammond book mean -"so-called
Dorians"?
> >Well, they could of kept the name Makednon couldn't they. But the text
says
> >they changed there name to 'Dorian' thus ''so-called Dorians''.
> Why? Ashamed? Don't want to be barbarians? What?
Stopped at a place named Doris, then later FROM there came into
the Peloponnese, so then they were people from Doris....the Dorians!
:)
> >> >>Modern historians mostly concur with the extract below of
> >> >>Hammond which specifies specific reasons why the jury should
> >> >>concur that the Macedonians were in fact a Greek people
> >> >>who were settled outside of the land that had become
> >> >>identified as Hellas, which was simply the land that had
> >> >>been prominent in Mycenaean Greek times:
> >> >Lets consider that Hammond in the aforesaid book, tells of the
> >> >Strymoni being originally a Slav tribe that converted to Graecism
> >> >That was FOURTEEN HUNDRED YEARS LATER, Rads!!!!!!!!
> >> >IN A DIFFERENT AREA!!!!!!
> >> >Stop it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!>>
> >> Excuse me.
> >> Later is closer to now and of more value in finding out who is who.
:) (Remember the Bisalti?)
> >hahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
> <<>What are you talking about?????!!!!!!!
> >You jump from the ancient Macedonians to the 'Strymoni' which have
> >nothing to do with the situation.
> Not me -NGLH
UGH!
>> Remember this title says migrations and invasions.
> >> Btw, next chapter will be earlier -much earlier.
> >> >It is simply that you apparantly do not understand what you are
reading.
> >> Why? I have more to share with you.
> >> Look for the latest this evening.
:)
> <<>Because you talk of differences when you have not posted any
> >but you imply you have!
> What! Did any of you say there were Greeks who were originally Slav?
There wasn't!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> >> >You then post some information which doesn't affect the issue
> >> >so I am not going to be diverted 'elsewhere' young Lady!
> >> Whoa -major case of grouch.
> >:)
> >> >He gave their habitat as 'Pieria and Olympus'. In northern Pieria an =
> >> >early
> >> >iron age cemetery of 300 tumuli, partly excavated, has revealed the =
> >> >rulers
> >> >there as probably Phrygians and then Illyrii until c.650 BC, when it =
> >> >went
> >> >out of use.
> >> >At that time a new dynasty, the Temenidae, ruling the Macedonians, =
> >> >founded
> >> >their early capital at Aegae (mod. Vergina), situated above the =
> >> >cemetery,
> >> >and thereafter gained control of the coastal plain as far as the
Axius.
> >> Now I am at the earlier time. I will get to this time later.
> <<>What are you refering to now? The above says 650_B.C._
> Who is that -your quote?
> I'll get to Vergina later.
> >> >Oh, I see, you know better than all the ancient historians who
> >> >were there, and all of the mainstream modern historians!
> >> But my dear, I am quoting a modern historian. :)
> <<>But you are claiming that what you have written says something
> >other than what we have been telling you, and it doesn't.
> Ha -like what? Strymoni? I have repeatedly quoted the book on them.
What is your problem with the Strymoni?!!!!!!!!!
Radeff
Radeff
>> >This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
>> I do not like this format.
>
>Me too!
>
>
>> Whats with the grouchiness?
>> Have a bad little hiatus?
>> :)
>
>Told you. Computer got ''upgraded'' to IE 5.00
>>>
Read that too late.
>> >Hope, you are hopelessly confused!!!!!!!! And that idiot Absurdity left
>> >you confused!!!!!!
>> (sigh) I am chiefly quoting Hammond here.
>>.
<<>Their is nothing wrote withquoting. It is your apparant inability
>to differentiate between TIMES and PLACES and PEOPLES!
>>.
Thats the way the book is writtten.
The next part is the The Prehistoric Period.
You know -cave men and women, of course.
>
>> >You wrote:
>> >>Spirit wrote
>> >>>Only point I will comment on is the above.
>> >>>The Macedonians were differentiated by all the ancient historians
>> >>>from the Illyrians and Thracians.
>> >>Yes, then came the time when there was an assimilation of all the
>> >>dwellers and that was not exactly modern, either.
>> <<>Illyrians were in Fyrom, Thracians were in Thrace, they were=20
>> >not 'assimilated' into "Macedonians":
>> Really? Please pay attention to my series on Hammond's book as it unfolds
>> -close attention, please.
>>.
<<>You pay attention NOW. The Illyrians and Thracians of the land
>where Fyrom is and the land where Thrace was were NOT assimilated
>by the ancient Macedonians!!!!!!! You will not find that in history for
>that did not happen.>.
Pooh! There are Illyrian chieftains graves in Vergina.
I suppose there had to be a sale on plots and they took advantage of the deal.
How about the Preceramic Neolithic Period for Thessaly? Is this early enough?
Taken from the Migrations and Invasion in Greece and Adjacent Areas by Nicholas
G.L. Hammond
For fair use only
"That the first settlers came to Thessaly from the Near East seems to be most
probable. The earliest layers of the three excavated sites at Argissa, Souphli
and Sesklo show a full-fledged civilisation and no preliminary stages to it,
and the appropriate precendents are to be seen in the Near East, especially in
Anatolia. It is possible that the first explorers came by boat, but it is
probable that the majority of the settlers came by land, bringing some
domesticated animals with them, and moving gradually along the Thracian coast,
rather than that they all came by sea and had to begin again with the
domesticating of the wild animals of Thessaly. If they came both by sea and by
land, they resembled the Slavs in this respect."
<<>You will also find that you are also mistaking the Bulgarians and
>Slavs in _FYROM_ for Slavs that were found south of there.>.
Now where in all the writings here of Slavs, did any one differentiate among
them?
<<>You are reading about GREECE and talking about GREECE
>you are not reading a book about your Voulgari people in Fyrom
>and say OHRID!
>Stop confusing yourself and thus misleading others!!!!!!
>>>
Excuse me. Read the title above.
FYI, Ochrid is mentioned in this book as well as Monastir/Bitola and other
locations in Macedonia (RM)
>> Brat! What do you think I am doing in quoting this book?
>> I am telling it like it is.
>
>:)
>
>> >>Now in map 23 of the Migrations and Invasions of Greece and
>> >>Adjacent Areas, the Dorians are shown as migrating into Thessaly
>> >>and not in Macedonia which is labeled further north. There the
>> >>migrations are Brygoi.
>> <<>Herodotus Histories:=20
>> >[1.56.3] For in the days of king
>> >Deucalion1 it inhabited the land of Phthia, then the country called
>> >Histiaean, under Ossa and Olympus, in the time of Dorus son of Hellen;
>> >driven from this Histiaean country by the Cadmeans, it settled about =
>> >Pindus
>> >in the territory called Macedonian; from there again it migrated to =
>> >Dryopia,
>> >and at last came from Dryopia into the Peloponnese, where it took the =
>> >name
>> >of Dorian.
>> Then what does this quote from the Hammond book mean -"so-called Dorians"?
>>.
>Well, they could of kept the name Makednon couldn't they. But the text says
>they changed there name to 'Dorian' thus ''so-called Dorians''.
>>>
Why? Ashamed? Don't want to be barbarians? What?
>> >>Modern historians mostly concur with the extract below of
>> >>Hammond which specifies specific reasons why the jury should
>> >>concur that the Macedonians were in fact a Greek people
>> >>who were settled outside of the land that had become
>> >>identified as Hellas, which was simply the land that had
>> >>been prominent in Mycenaean Greek times:
>> >Lets consider that Hammond in the aforesaid book, tells of the
>> >Strymoni being originally a Slav tribe that converted to Graecism
>> >That was FOURTEEN HUNDRED YEARS LATER, Rads!!!!!!!!
>> >IN A DIFFERENT AREA!!!!!!
>> >Stop it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!>>
>> Excuse me.
>> Later is closer to now and of more value in finding out who is who.
>
>hahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
>>>
<<>What are you talking about?????!!!!!!!
>You jump from the ancient Macedonians to the 'Strymoni' which have
>nothing to do with the situation.
>>>
Not me -NGLH
>> Remember this title says migrations and invasions.
>> Btw, next chapter will be earlier -much earlier.
>
>> >It is simply that you apparantly do not understand what you are reading.
>> Why? I have more to share with you.
>> Look for the latest this evening.
>>>
<<>Because you talk of differences when you have not posted any
>but you imply you have!
>>>
What! Did any of you say there were Greeks who were originally Slav?
>:)
>
>> >You then post some information which doesn't affect the issue
>> >so I am not going to be diverted 'elsewhere' young Lady!
>> Whoa -major case of grouch.
>
>:)
>
>> >He gave their habitat as 'Pieria and Olympus'. In northern Pieria an =
>> >early
>> >iron age cemetery of 300 tumuli, partly excavated, has revealed the =
>> >rulers
>> >there as probably Phrygians and then Illyrii until c.650 BC, when it =
>> >went
>> >out of use.
>> >At that time a new dynasty, the Temenidae, ruling the Macedonians, =
>> >founded
>> >their early capital at Aegae (mod. Vergina), situated above the =
>> >cemetery,
>> >and thereafter gained control of the coastal plain as far as the Axius.
>> Now I am at the earlier time. I will get to this time later.
>>>
<<>What are you refering to now? The above says 650_B.C._
>>>
Who is that -your quote?
I'll get to Vergina later.
>> >Oh, I see, you know better than all the ancient historians who
>> >were there, and all of the mainstream modern historians!
>> But my dear, I am quoting a modern historian. :)
>>>
<<>But you are claiming that what you have written says something
>other than what we have been telling you, and it doesn't.
>>>
Ha -like what? Strymoni? I have repeatedly quoted the book on them.
>> Stay tuned.
>
>> >Now, stop denying the proclaimed ethnicity of the Macedonians=20
>> >by the Macedonians, GREEK!!!!!!!!!
>> God -this had to be some weekend in hell.
>> Stop shouting!!!
>
>Sorry. IE 5.00!!!!!!
>
>:)
>
>
>
>from: Spirit Of The Real Makedon
> (using June's e-mail to communicate to you)!
>
>........The heart of Macedonia was always Greek
HRA
June R Harton
> >The rest is just fine Hope.
> above.
> <<>Yes but the emphasis is what is happening in Greece, not what
> >is happening in Fyrom or Thrace meanwhile.
> You know I cannot enter the entire text.
> >> FYI, Ochrid is mentioned in this book as well as Monastir/Bitola and other
> >> locations in Macedonia (RM)
> <<>Yes, of course!
> >the Peloponnese, so then they were people from Doris....the Dorians!
> >> >> >in the territory called Macedonian; from there again it migrated to
> <<>:) (Remember the Bisalti?)
> Could you be refering to this?
> "This is how Thucydides described the inhabitants of the small places on the
> rocky coast of Mt. Athos: "These places are inhabited by a mixture of races,
> bilingual but non-Greek; they include a small Chalcidic element, and the main
> element is Pelasgic, Bisaltic, Crestonic and Edonian""
MACEDONIA - An Ancient GREEK Land
In the year 200 B.C. the Macedonian King Philip V sent
Macedonian ambassadors to the council of the Aetolian
League, the 'Panaetolian Congress', to try to prevent the
Romans from inducing the Aetolians to change their allegiance
from Philip V to the Romans in their 2nd Macedonian War.
At the council was also the Roman representative
sent by the consul, and also a deputation from the
Athenians who were the Romans' allies at this time.
A hearing was first given to the Macedonians.
The Macedonian delegates said:
'..........the same reasons which led them (the Aetolians)
to make peace with Philip should lead them to keep that
peace, once it had been established'.
'Or do you prefer' said one of the the delegates, '.......
................ . It is sheer madness to expect anything will
remain in the same state if aliens, more widely separated
from you by language, customs and laws than by distance
over sea and land, obtain control over these parts.
Philip's rule ............. . Allow the foreign legions to settle
down in these parts and take the yoke on your shoulders;
then it will be too late and all in vain to call on Philip as
your ally, when you have the Roman for your lord. The
Aetolians, the Acarnanians, the Macedonians, are divided
or united by unimportant causes that arise from time
to time; with aliens, with barbarians, all Greeks are and
will be for ever at war; for they are enemies not for
reasons which change from day to day, but by nature -
and nature is eternal. But now my speech will end .........'
Livy (Titus Livius), XXXI.28 - XXXI.29
from LIVY. ROME AND THE MEDITERRANEAN
Translated by HENRY BETTENSON
PENGUIN CLASSICS
For fair use only
_Rome dictates terms after 3rd Macedonian War_
17 [167 B.C.]. The Senate appointed ten commissioners
for Macedonia and five for Illyricum; on their advice
Paulus and Anicius were to settle affairs in those
countries. The members of the Macedonian
commission were nominated first: they were .......... .
The men who were being sent on the commissions
were of a quality to justify the hope that on their
advice the commanders would make no decisions
inconsistant with the clemency and the dignity of the
Roman people; nevertheless, there were discussions
in the Senate about guiding principles of policy so
that the commissioners should be able to convey from
home to the generals the ground work of a settlement.
18. First of all, it was decided that the Macedonians and
the Illyrians should be free; so that it should be evident
to all peoples that the arms of the Roman people did
not bring slavery to the free but, on the contrary,
freedom to the enslaved; so that nations which enjoyed
freedom should feel that their liberty was assured in
perpetuity under the protection of the Roman People,
and that those people who lived under the rule of kings
should be convinced that for the present their rulers
were more gentle and more just by reason of their
respect for the Roman People, and that if ever their
rulers should be at war with the Roman People, the
result of that war would bring victory to the Romans
and liberty to themselves.
It was also decided to do away with the leasing of the
Macedonian mines,.............................................. .
Finally, fearing that a common legislative body for
the whole nation might give a chance for some
unscrupulous demagogue to pervert the freedom
given by healthy moderation into the licence
which is a plague to any commonwealth, the Senate
decided to divide Macedonia into four districts, each
having its own governing body. It was also decreed
that Macedonia should pay to the Roman people
half the tribute which they had customarily paid to
their kings. ........................................................ .
29. Paulus had given orders that on a certain day
ten leading citizens from each city should present
themselves at Amphipolis, that all official documents
deposited in different places should be collected by
that time, and the king's money should be brought
in. When the day arrived, Paulus, accompanied by
the ten commissioners, took his seat on his official
platform, surrounded by the whole crowd of
Macedonians. The Macedonians were accustomed
to the power of kings; but this new sovereign power
was displayed to them in a fashion to inspire
dread; the consul's seat of judgement, his entrance
after a path had been cleared, the herald, and
the attendant - all these were novelties to their eyes
and ears, and they were things that might have
frightened even allies, not to speak of conquered
enemies. When the herald had imposed silence,
Paulus announced in Latin the decisions of the
Senate, along with his own decisions, made on the
advice of his council.
The praetor Gnaeus Octavius - for he too was
there - translated these announcements into
Greek and conveyed them to the Macedonians.
The provisions were as follows: first of all, the
Macedonians were to be free, keeping their own
cities and territories, enjoying their own laws, and
electing annual magistrates; they were to pay to
Roman people half the tax they had paid to their kings.
In the next place Macedonia was to be divided into
four districts; one district, the first division would
consist of the land between the rivers Strymon and
Nessus; and to this division would be added, from
across the Nessus to the east, the villages, fortified
places, and towns which Perseus had held, except
Aenus, Maronea, and Abdera, while on the nearer
side of the Strymon, towards the west, there would
be added all the country of the Bisaltae, including
Heraclea (Heraclea Sintice as it is called). The
second district was to consist of the part bounded
on the east by the River Strymon, excluding Heraclea
Sintice and the Bisaltae - and on the west by the
Axius, and was to include the Paeonians dwelling
near the Axius on the east bank of the river. The
third district comprised the territory enclosed on
the east by the Axius and on the west by the River
Peneus - on the north Mount Bora forms a barrier;
to this division was added the region of Paeonia
which extends along the west bank of the Axius;
Edessa and Beroea were also assigned to this
district. The fourth district was on the other side of
Mount Bora, one part of it bordering on Illyricum,
the other on Epirus. The capitals of the districts,
where their councils were to be held, were these:
for the first district, Amphipolis; for the second,
Thessalonica; for the third, Pella; for the fourth,
Pelagonia. The consul gave orders that a council
for each district should be called in each of these
places, and that in these places money should
be brought in, and magistrates elected.
Next he announced a decision that no one should
have the right of marriage or of dealing in land or
buildings outside the confines of his own district.
Moreover, the mines of gold and silver were not
to be worked, although the working of iron and
copper mines was allowed, the taxon those working
the mines was fixed at half the amount they had
paid to the king. He forbade the use of imported
salt. When the Dardanians asked for the
restoration of Paeonia, on the ground that it had
been theirs and that it adjoined their boundaries,
Paulus announced that freedom was being given
to all those who had been under the rule of King
Perseus. But after refusing them Paeonia he gave
them the right to import salt; he ordered the third
district to convey salt to Stobi in Paeonia, and he
fixed the price of this commodity. He forbade the
Macedonians to cut timber for ships, or to allow
others to do so. The districts with barbarians on
their borders - all the districts, that is, except the
third - were given leave to have armed guards along
their frontiers.
30. The announcement of these provisions on the
first day of the meeting aroused varied feelings.
The unexpected granting of freedom, and the
lightening of the annual tax, raised men's spirits;
but to those whose commercial activities were
interrupted by the division into districts their
country seemed cut into pieces, like an animal
torn into separate, each of which needed the others;
so unaware were the Macedonians themselves of
the size of Macedonia, of the ease with which it
could be divided, of the self-sufficiency of each part.
The first district enjoys many advantages; it has the
Bisaltae, first-class fighting men (they live beyond
the Nessus, in the neighbourhood of the Strymon);
it has crops of many kinds peculiar to the region,
it has mines; and the strategic position of Amphipolis
forms a barrier closing all approaches into
Macedonia from the east. The second division has
the extremely populous cities of Thessalonica and
Cassandrea, and it has besides, in Pallene, a
fertile and fruitful territory; it is also provided with
maritime advantages in the shape of the harbours at
Torone, Mount Athos, Aenea, and Acanthus, all in
convenient positions, some facing Thessaly and the
island of Euboea, others looking towards the
Hellespont. The third region has the notable cities of
Edessa, Beroea, and Pella; it includes the warlike
people of the Vettii, besides a large settlement of
Gauls and Illyrians, who are energetic farmers. The
fourth region is inhabited by the Eordaei, the
Lyncestae, and the Pelagonians; added to these
are Atintania, Tymphaeis, and Elimiotis. All this stretch
of country is cold, difficult of cultivation and harsh;
and it has inhabitants of a character resembling the
land; and they are made fiercer by the wild tribesmen
dwelling next to them, who sometimes give them
practice in warfare, sometimes, in times of peace, an
intermixture of their customs. The division of Macedonia
thus demonstrated, by separating the advantages of the
different parts, the greatness of the country as a whole.
31. After the dictation of the scheme for Macedonia,
Paulus gave notice that he would also lay down laws.
He then summoned the Aetolians to appear before him.
In this examination .................................................. .
Livy (Titus Livius), XLV.17 - XLV.31
from LIVY. ROME AND THE MEDITERRANEAN
Translated by HENRY BETTENSON
PENGUIN CLASSICS
> <,>UGH!
> Mohawk language or noooooooo -not against NGLH?
> >> >but you imply you have!
> >> What! Did any of you say there were Greeks who were originally Slav?
> <<>There wasn't!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> >> <<>But you are claiming that what you have written says something
> >> >other than what we have been telling you, and it doesn't.
> >> Ha -like what? Strymoni? I have repeatedly quoted the book on them.
> <<>What is your problem with the Strymoni?!!!!!!!!!>>
> God love them.
June R Harton
<> Oh, no - if it walks like a duck...........
it could be ilindra!
Radeff
read the "panukla's" post at work where I cannot answer it. So now its a
triumvirate.
>Ok,OK!
>
>Rads wrote
>> <<>You pay attention NOW. The Illyrians and Thracians of the land
>> >where Fyrom is and the land where Thrace was were NOT assimilated
>> >by the ancient Macedonians!!!!!!! You will not find that in history for
>> >that did not happen.>.
>> Pooh! There are Illyrian chieftains graves in Vergina.
>
>
>hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
>
>Radeff, slowly slowly, I am saying that THOSE Illyrians in the area
>of fYrom and those Thracians in the area of Thrace DID NOT
>bedome one huge, happy camp of _Macedonians_.
>
>I am not saying that Illyrians and Thracians IN Greece were not assimilated.
>>.
Good brat. Its about time.
>> I suppose there had to be a sale on plots and they took advantage of the
Oh, no - if it walks like a duck...........
>
> <<>You will also find that you are also mistaking the Bulgarians and
>> >Slavs in _FYROM_ for Slavs that were found south of there.>.
>> Now where in all the writings here of Slavs, did any one differentiate
>among
>> them?
>>>
<<>You are missing the point!!!!!!!!!!!!
>>>
Am I? A Slav is a Slav is a Slav.
Ok I'll be fair -tell me the difference among those Slavs from those locations
above.
>> <<>You are reading about GREECE and talking about GREECE
>> >you are not reading a book about your Voulgari people in Fyrom
>> >and say OHRID!
>> >Stop confusing yourself and thus misleading others!!!!!!
>> Excuse me. Read the title above.
>
<<>Yes but the emphasis is what is happening in Greece, not what
>is happening in Fyrom or Thrace meanwhile.
>>>
Thats wrong. All the maps clearly define the areas and so does the text.
You know I cannot enter the entire text.
Interested parties should try to borrow the book from their local libraries,
academic or public. Btw, do not forget to use interlibrary loan as well. :)
>> FYI, Ochrid is mentioned in this book as well as Monastir/Bitola and other
>> locations in Macedonia (RM)
>>
<<>Yes, of course!
>>.
Huh?
>>>>>>it settled about Pindus
>> >> >in the territory called Macedonian; from there again it migrated to =
>> >> >Dryopia,
>> >> >and at last came from Dryopia into the Peloponnese, where it took the
>=
>> >> >name
>> >> >of Dorian.
>> >> Then what does this quote from the Hammond book mean -"so-called
>Dorians"?
>
>> >Well, they could of kept the name Makednon couldn't they. But the text
>says
>> >they changed there name to 'Dorian' thus ''so-called Dorians''.
>
>> Why? Ashamed? Don't want to be barbarians? What?
>>
<<>Stopped at a place named Doris, then later FROM there came into
>the Peloponnese, so then they were people from Doris....the Dorians!
>
>:)>>
Stopped there from where?
>
>> >> >>Modern historians mostly concur with the extract below of
>> >> >>Hammond which specifies specific reasons why the jury should
>> >> >>concur that the Macedonians were in fact a Greek people
>> >> >>who were settled outside of the land that had become
>> >> >>identified as Hellas, which was simply the land that had
>> >> >>been prominent in Mycenaean Greek times:
>> >> >Lets consider that Hammond in the aforesaid book, tells of the
>> >> >Strymoni being originally a Slav tribe that converted to Graecism
>> >> >That was FOURTEEN HUNDRED YEARS LATER, Rads!!!!!!!!
>> >> >IN A DIFFERENT AREA!!!!!!
>> >> >Stop it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!>>
>> >> Excuse me.
>> >> Later is closer to now and of more value in finding out who is who.
>>>
<<>:) (Remember the Bisalti?)
>>>
Could you be refering to this?
"This is how Thucydides described the inhabitants of the small places on the
rocky coast of Mt. Athos: "These places are inhabited by a mixture of races,
bilingual but non-Greek; they include a small Chalcidic element, and the main
element is Pelasgic, Bisaltic, Crestonic and Edonian""
Taken from the Migrations and Invasions in Greece and Adjacent Areas by
Nicholas G.L. Hammond
For fair use only.
>hahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
>> <<>What are you talking about?????!!!!!!!
>> >You jump from the ancient Macedonians to the 'Strymoni' which have
>> >nothing to do with the situation.
>> Not me -NGLH
>>>
<,>UGH!
>>>
Mohawk language or noooooooo -not against NGLH?
> >> Remember this title says migrations and invasions.
>> >> Btw, next chapter will be earlier -much earlier.
>> >> >It is simply that you apparantly do not understand what you are
>reading.
>> >> Why? I have more to share with you.
>> >> Look for the latest this evening.
>
>
>:)
>
>> <<>Because you talk of differences when you have not posted any
>> >but you imply you have!
>
>> What! Did any of you say there were Greeks who were originally Slav?
>
>>>
<<>There wasn't!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>>>
1. Strymoni
None at all.
God love them.
HRA
ili...@sympatico.ca
June R Harton wrote:
Rads wrote> >I am not saying that Illyrians and MACEDONIANS IN FTCOG were not assimilated.
> Good brat. Its about time.DUH?> <<>That was an unfortunate use ofINDO-EUROPEAN-GREKI just to confuse you
> >The rest is just fine Hope.
> Oh, no - if it walks like a duck........... There you go, walking and talking like a duck again! :)> <<>You are missing the point!!!!!!!!!!!!
> Am I? AINDO-EUROPEAN-GREKOS is a INDO-EUROPEAN-GREKOS is a INDO-EUROPEAN-GREKOS therefore a FTCOGIAN= a INDO-EUROPEAN-GREKOS FROM THE FTCOG