When does it become real?
Hilary Carter
when does it become real? I still feel not old enouhg/adult enough in
some ways (outside me, if that makes sense) even though I know I'm right,
and we've been engaged 18 months after being friends for 3 years...
(Don't get me wrong - I love it, and my DH, it just feels strange!)
So, what made it real for you? When did you start *thinking* of yourself
as being married, or Mrs X, without the "ooh, it's all new" feeling? When
did you really believe it?
Hilary
----------------
Barbara
100...@tardis.tardis.ed.ac.uk>, Hilary Carter
<hil...@tardis.ed.ac.uk> wrote:
>We're married, living together, starting the chance-of-name
process...
>
yourself
>as being married, or Mrs X, without the "ooh, it's all new"
feeling? When
>did you really believe it?
It felt all new and funny and exciting and a bit unreal for the
first little while - while we felt we were married, we were just
"Barbara and Julian" who had made a life commitment to each
other. Inwardly, I felt like a wife from the moment we took our
vows; but, in terms of having the rest of the world feel that I
was a spouse (and he was my spouse), I'd say that it took a few
months - three months, to be exact. My DH suddenly fell ill on
the afternoon of our three month anniversary, and got rushed to
hospital in an ambulance. I was the spouse who went to the First
Aid station at the stadium where he first fell ill, then climbed
in the ambulance for that scary ride, and then _I_ was the
worried spouse waiting in the ER waiting room! :-( That, I
think, was the defining moment in terms of the external view of
our relationship - we were treated like husband and wife by
others, I was acknowledged as his wife (although grr! they asked
for "Mrs. Hislastname" although he was plenty conscious at this
point and had specifically told them my actual name...Ms.
OurFamilyname"
This all took my place in my "hometown" (I find it hard to call
a city of 3+ million people a "town"!), and we live 400kms/~250
miles away - so, I really felt like a spouse when I had to
return home (to our home and my job) without him. The house
seemed horribly empty. And, people at work who hadn't really
realized that I was married (I'm the youngest of the regular
staff at work), were suddenly asking how my husband was doing.
This is, however, an unusual way to 'get it' that you're married
in the eyes of the rest of the world, and not something I'd
recommend! :-)
--Barbara
>
>http://www.scottishmagic.co.uk
>
>
>
>
Need a little R&R?
Visit Alt.newlywed today!
My 'real' email address: barbara <at> ncf <dot> ca
* Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet's Discussion Network *
The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet - Free!
Jodi
Hilary Carter wrote in message ...
>So, what made it real for you? When did you start *thinking* of yourself
>as being married, or Mrs X, without the "ooh, it's all new" feeling? When
>did you really believe it?
For me it was a gradual thing that just sort of snuck (Is that not a word?
My spell check just bonged it. sneaked?) up on me. I got pregnant the 2nd
month we were married, and I think that all of the dr.'s appts. and
anticipation of Anna's arrival helped with the "married" feeling. A little
while ago I said to DH, "Remember how exciting it was when we were first
dating? Isn't this SO much better?" He agreed.
Jodi
Megan
Hilary Carter <hil...@tardis.ed.ac.uk> wrote in message
news:Pine.GSO.3.96.100052...@tardis.tardis.ed.ac.uk...
snip
> So, what made it real for you? When did you start *thinking* of yourself
> as being married, or Mrs X, without the "ooh, it's all new" feeling? When
> did you really believe it?
Not yet ;-)
Megan
one year on 12 June
Teej
>We're married, living together, starting the chance-of-name process...
>when does it become real? I still feel not old enouhg/adult enough in
>some ways (outside me, if that makes sense) even though I know I'm right,
>and we've been engaged 18 months after being friends for 3 years...
>(Don't get me wrong - I love it, and my DH, it just feels strange!)
>So, what made it real for you? When did you start *thinking* of yourself
>as being married, or Mrs X, without the "ooh, it's all new" feeling? When
>did you really believe it?
Larry and I lived together for 2 years before we got married and we
have been married for slightly over two years and every now and again
I see can't believe I have a husband.
The day to day stuff seems terribly real. I can't imagine not being
married to him, but at the same time I can't really believe I'm
married.
Not sure if that makes any sense, but I have no idea when it really
really feels real :-)
/s
--
Teej
http://www.panix.com/~teej
Naomi Gayle Rivkis
>The day to day stuff seems terribly real. I can't imagine not being
>married to him, but at the same time I can't really believe I'm
>married.
>
>Not sure if that makes any sense, but I have no idea when it really
>really feels real :-)
That's exactly the way it feels to me, and I think it starts to really
really feel real when you finally realize that that feeling *is*
'feeling real'. :)
-Naomi
There is no "they." To make a simple statement about a broad group of
people is to be wrong.
Sarah
<Pine.GSO.3.96.100052...@tardis.tardis.ed.ac.uk>,
Hilary Carter <hil...@tardis.ed.ac.uk> wrote:
> We're married, living together, starting the chance-of-name process...
> when does it become real? I still feel not old enouhg/adult enough in
> some ways (outside me, if that makes sense) even though I know I'm
right,
> and we've been engaged 18 months after being friends for 3 years...
> (Don't get me wrong - I love it, and my DH, it just feels strange!)
Oh, I know EXACTLY what you mean! And it's funny you should mention it
now, because Jim and I were talking about this just the other day.
We're getting married in a month and a half, so that hasn't kicked in
yet (tho his family has already begun addressing mail to me using my
"new" name, which completely freaked me out...) but we've been together
for more than 5 years now, and living together for more than two of
those years. And now that I'm finally out of school, our apartment has
become a permanent home, not just somewhere to be for a week's break or
the summer or whatever. And it's SUCH a weird feeling! It feels
somehow like we're just playing house...waiting for the grownups to come
home so they can take over again.
Sarah
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Naomi Gayle Rivkis
<hil...@tardis.ed.ac.uk> wrote:
>So, what made it real for you? When did you start *thinking* of yourself
>as being married, or Mrs X, without the "ooh, it's all new" feeling? When
>did you really believe it?
In my case it turned up the first time I thought about it again after
not tihnking about it at all for a few weeks running. I think as long
as you're paying attention it feels weird, the same way breathing
isn't quite natural when you notice you're doing it, but falls into
place when you do it automatically while your mind is on something
else. I didn't really start feeling married all the time instead of
just when I wasn't thinking about what it felt like to feel married
until a month or so ago, when realized that the kind of things we
were trying to deal with now and the ways we were handling them just
weren't the same as they used to be and that I was more used to the
way they were now than I would be if I tried to go back to just being
his girlfriend.
> Hilary
Vicky Larmour
>Larry and I lived together for 2 years before we got married and we
>have been married for slightly over two years and every now and again
>I see can't believe I have a husband.
>
>married to him, but at the same time I can't really believe I'm
>married.
>
>Not sure if that makes any sense, but I have no idea when it really
>really feels real :-)
It makes sense to me! We've known each other for almost 8 years, been
"together" for most of that time and married for the last 3 years. I *still*
get flashes of "my goodness, I can't believe we're really truly MARRIED" but
I also get flashes of "wow, can't even imagine not being married to this man"
:-)
Vicky
--
vicky.larmour[at]camcon.co.uk All opinions mine.
The "unofficial offical alt.newlywed page" and a.n FAQ:
http://www.jifvik.demon.co.uk/newlywed/newlywed.htm
klsimmons
> of yourself as being married, or Mrs X, without the "ooh, it's
> all new" feeling? When did you really believe it?
Kev and I lived together for a couple of years, so there wasn't
any big moment of "I'm married now" for us. But I think it
wasn't until a good 6 months into being married that I didn't
have to pause before saying "my husband".
Even so, at 32, there are still times when I think to myself;
I'm not old enough to be married and think about kids and buy a
house and have all of this responsibility. I quite often think
of myself as still being a "kid".
Karen
KathyK
vicky....@camcon.co.nospam.uk (Vicky Larmour) wrote:
>It makes sense to me! We've known each other for almost 8
years, been
>"together" for most of that time and married for the last 3
years. I *still*
>get flashes of "my goodness, I can't believe we're really truly
MARRIED" but
>I also get flashes of "wow, can't even imagine not being
married to this man"
>:-)
>
>Vicky
>--
>vicky.larmour[at]camcon.co.uk All opinions mine.
>
Stan and I have been together for 8.5 years, and married for
just over 2. I feel exactly the way Vicky does. I can't
imagine not being married to him, and I can't believe I am at
the same time.
We didn't really have a defining moment like Barbara and Julian
(unfortunately) had. Stan mentioned several times early in our
marriage that he couldn't believe that one of us didn't have to
leave at bedtime, and that going to bed together was sort of
like a slumber party (many times we'd stay up giggling and
telling silly jokes when we should have been sleeping).
Sometimes we still have those slumber party talks at bedtime.
For me, it was gradual, yet quick. Once I took care of the name
change stuff, and didn't have to call people at work saying,
"Hi, this is Kathy Kula, formerly Kathy DeGraaff" it seemed more
normal to be someone's wife. By the time we signed the contract
to build our house, we were most definitely husband and wife (15
months post-w.
Buying a house was actually a bit more of a transition than
being a wife. Sometimes, I look around the house and totally
can't believe that this beautiful home actually belongs to us
(well, us and the bank). Then again, the whole homeowner thing
is newer to us than the marriage thing.
Sorry for babbling so much.
--Kathy
HollyLewis
>as you're paying attention it feels weird, the same way breathing
>isn't quite natural when you notice you're doing it, but falls into
>place when you do it automatically while your mind is on something
>else.
Now that is an excellent description. :-) I don't think we've had "a defining
moment" but there are lots of minor incidents that cause you to think, "whoa,
I'm MARRIED". :-) Like, for example, you fill out some form that asks your
marital status, and your pencil pauses as you realize you have to check a
different box than you always have before. Or you hear a news story about
someone who died unexpectedly and the person's fiance is mentioned -- it hits
home more than it used to.
For me those moments of realization started when we got engaged, and they're
still happening now when we're approaching our fourth anniversary.
I still can't STAND being called "Mrs." anything, but that's actually a
completely different issue. :-)
Holly
CatMom0823
>I still can't STAND being called "Mrs." anything, but that's
actually a
>completely different issue. :-)
Me neither! :) Dianne
Naomi Gayle Rivkis
<destiny...@sundial.net.invalid> wrote:
>Holly wrote:
>>I still can't STAND being called "Mrs." anything, but that's
>actually a
>>completely different issue. :-)
>
>Me neither! :) Dianne
Me three, me three! I absolutely snarled at Manny to deal with his
family when they sent an anniversary card to Mr. and Mrs. Jacobowitz.
They're mostly nice people, but we are the only split-name couple out
of six children, and they just can't get used to it. (Meanwhile, MY
mother keeps dropping little hints to make sure we're still intending
at least some of HFC to have my last name instead of DH's. We are.)
Barbara
nri...@concentric.net (Naomi Gayle Rivkis) wrote:
>Me three, me three! I absolutely snarled at Manny to deal with
his
>family when they sent an anniversary card to Mr. and Mrs.
Jacobowitz.
Argh - I just wish my usually -very-helpful-and-very-supportive
DH would talk to his fmaily about that pesky Mr. & Mrs. thing!
He says that it's just the way they want to address me, that
they think it's the formal, socially-polite way to address me,
and that since I feel differently, _I_ should be the one to
point it out to them. He fails to see how important it is for
him to say something, so that it's clear that neither of us are
using Mr. & Mrs. for anytyhing, and that he's the one who made
the choice not to use his surname as the family name! They (the
grandparents mostly) seem to think that I didn't change my name
for professional reasons and that socially we're Mr. and Mrs.
Hislast. Actually, legally, he's Mr. Mylast Hislast, and
socially, we're "The Mylasts", that is, Mr. and Ms. Mylast.
Argh! I've vented here about this before, and I'm stuck since DH
and I have discussed this 'round and 'round and he refuses ot
'get stuck' in this. He sees no problem with his grandparents
doing what they feel is polite and he thinks it would be rude of
us to tell them that what they are doing is actually rude (to me
- he doesn't htink it's rude, just old fashioned, which all of
these grandparents are by nature.)
Putting our 'social name' (Mr. and Ms. Mylast) on the Christmas
card envelope (return address portion) didn't help but rather
inflamed things a little -- the next bit of correspondance we
got still had the Mr. and Mrs. Hislast part, *and* he got a
talking to, via his aunt, on the matter. He was told that my
card enveolope was not received well by the grandparents and
that we had upset them.
Huh - what about the fact of them upsetting me with their
antiquated and incorrect choice of title/address?? What about
the fact that these are _our_) names not theirs, and that a
person has the right to choose what name by which to be called??
AAAHHHHHH!
There, I feel better now.
-Barbara (who may well have a heart to heart with Julian's
maternal set this summer about this)
>They're mostly nice people, but we are the only split-name
couple out
>of six children, and they just can't get used to it.
(Meanwhile, MY
>mother keeps dropping little hints to make sure we're still
intending
>at least some of HFC to have my last name instead of DH's. We
are.)
>
> -Naomi
>
>
>There is no "they." To make a simple statement about a broad
group of
>people is to be wrong.
>
>
Need a little R&R?
Visit Alt.newlywed today!
My 'real' email address: barbara <at> ncf <dot> ca
Naomi Gayle Rivkis
<bewarner...@is2.dal.ca.invalid> wrote:
>Putting our 'social name' (Mr. and Ms. Mylast) on the Christmas
>card envelope (return address portion) didn't help but rather
>inflamed things a little -- the next bit of correspondance we
>got still had the Mr. and Mrs. Hislast part, *and* he got a
>talking to, via his aunt, on the matter. He was told that my
>card enveolope was not received well by the grandparents and
>that we had upset them.
>Huh - what about the fact of them upsetting me with their
>antiquated and incorrect choice of title/address?? What about
>the fact that these are _our_) names not theirs, and that a
>person has the right to choose what name by which to be called??
95% I agree with you on this, but a part of me wants to drpo it into
what my father explained to me t nine was the Ninety-Year-Old-Aunt
Rule. AKA there are things which ninety year old aunts can get away
with which nobody would be unconscionable if anyone else did it. I
agree that your husband should talk to his family about this on
you-as-a-couple's behalf, and I agree that if he really won't you have
every right to do so yourself, I would just probably personally let
them get away with it. I WON'T let Manny's sisters and brothers of our
own generation get away with it.
RNR
>Me three, me three! I absolutely snarled at Manny to deal with
>his family when they sent an anniversary card to Mr. and Mrs.
>Jacobowitz. They're mostly nice people, but we are the only
>split-name couple out of six children, and they just can't get
>used to it. (Meanwhile, MY mother keeps dropping little hints to
>make sure we're still intending at least some of HFC to have my
>last name instead of DH's. We are.)
I have the opposite problem. I have taken on Rich's last name.
I had no particular attachment to my father's name, and although
he has entered my life again, I certainly don't feel like he
deserves recognition in my everyday life. I did keep my maiden
name as an aditional middle name, and if/when I publish I will
use both my maiden name and married name. Rich never cared
either way if I took his name or not. So...the problem comes
from my parents who refuse to address things to my married name.
I find that particularly odd from my mom, as she certainly has no
love for my father or his name, she didn't take it as it is
traditional for women in the middle east to keep their own names,
but she still calls me by my maiden name. My dad, I can kind of
understand, as he wants some sort of link with me now.
It wouldn't be so bad if they used both names, but they just
use my maiden name. They have no trouble with Alexander having
Rich's name, as that is traditional and normal to them. I don't
confront them about it, it's not worth it, but it does bug me a
little bit. From my mom more, because I know how she is and it's
one of her ways of rejecting Rich and our marriage.
As for Mrs/Ms, I couldn't care less either way. In a business
situation I prefer Ms, but any other time, it doesn't matter to
me.
Regards,
Ranee (reply to am...@teleport.com)
This message brought to you by the numbers 7, 10 an
Rebecca
Rivkis) wrote:
>On Wed, 24 May 2000 12:59:05 -0700, CatMom0823
><destiny...@sundial.net.invalid> wrote:
>
>>Holly wrote:
>>>I still can't STAND being called "Mrs." anything, but that's
>>actually a
>>>completely different issue. :-)
>>
>>Me neither! :) Dianne
>
>Me three, me three! I absolutely snarled at Manny to deal with his
>family when they sent an anniversary card to Mr. and Mrs. Jacobowitz.
>They're mostly nice people, but we are the only split-name couple out
>of six children, and they just can't get used to it. (Meanwhile, MY
>mother keeps dropping little hints to make sure we're still intending
>at least some of HFC to have my last name instead of DH's. We are.)
Add me to that list! I got it all the time growing up because I'm
almost a decade older than my sister, outgrew my mother by age
thirteen and people would just assume.
Rebecca / rc...@deja.com
Naomi Gayle Rivkis
<amiraN...@teleport.com.invalid> wrote:
>In article <392c3616...@news.cris.com>,
>nri...@concentric.net (Naomi Gayle Rivkis) wrote:
>
>>Me three, me three! I absolutely snarled at Manny to deal with
>>his family when they sent an anniversary card to Mr. and Mrs.
>>Jacobowitz. They're mostly nice people, but we are the only
>>split-name couple out of six children, and they just can't get
>>used to it. (Meanwhile, MY mother keeps dropping little hints to
>>make sure we're still intending at least some of HFC to have my
>>last name instead of DH's. We are.)
>
> I have the opposite problem. I have taken on Rich's last name.
>I had no particular attachment to my father's name, and although
>he has entered my life again, I certainly don't feel like he
>deserves recognition in my everyday life.
<grin> I don't have my father's name either, actually I have my
mother's. We're on our third generation of matrilineal descent; my
daughters will be the fourth.
Jocelyn
for us for months! This year at Christmas, we started receiving cards
addressed to Mr. (or Dr.) and Mrs. Hisfirst Hislast. The first couple of
times I was polite, telephoning the offenders and gently explaining that (a)
we weren't yet married and (b) I wasn't planning on changing my name in any
case. After a while it got tiresome, and now it's *really* a sore point
with me.
We sent out all of our thank you cards with the return address from Lawrence
Hislast and Jocelyn Mylast, and he is in charge of explaining it as often as
necessary to any of his friends or relatives who get it wrong from here on
out. My (and our common) friends and relatives already all know better.
The things that really bugs me is that, like Barbara's DH, he sees it as my
problem, for me to deal with (though he has agreed to talk to his family,
anyway, as a "favor" to me). He was also having a hard time understanding
why I found it so offensive, even though *he* gets mad when his family sends
him stuff addressed to Mr. Hislast instead of Dr. Hislast
Funny thing, though - the invoice from the w******* reception was addressed
to Mr. and Mrs. Mylast. When he noticed it, he ranted and raved for a good
five minutes. When he calmed down, I asked him to explain why that was more
offensive than something addressed to Mr. and Mrs. Hisfirst Hislast. I
think (hope) he's got it now. ;-)
Barbara, I second your AAAAHHHHHHH!
- Jocelyn (still Mylast)
--
Change not to net to reply.
Barbara <bewarner...@is2.dal.ca.invalid> wrote:
> Argh - I just wish my usually -very-helpful-and-very-supportive
> DH would talk to his fmaily about that pesky Mr. & Mrs. thing!
> He says that it's just the way they want to address me, that
> they think it's the formal, socially-polite way to address me,
> and that since I feel differently, _I_ should be the one to
> point it out to them. He fails to see how important it is for
> him to say something, so that it's clear that neither of us are
> using Mr. & Mrs. for anytyhing, and that he's the one who made
> the choice not to use his surname as the family name! They (the
> grandparents mostly) seem to think that I didn't change my name
> for professional reasons and that socially we're Mr. and Mrs.
> Hislast. Actually, legally, he's Mr. Mylast Hislast, and
> socially, we're "The Mylasts", that is, Mr. and Ms. Mylast.
>
> Argh! I've vented here about this before, and I'm stuck since DH
> and I have discussed this 'round and 'round and he refuses ot
> 'get stuck' in this. He sees no problem with his grandparents
> doing what they feel is polite and he thinks it would be rude of
> us to tell them that what they are doing is actually rude (to me
> - he doesn't htink it's rude, just old fashioned, which all of
> these grandparents are by nature.)
>
> Putting our 'social name' (Mr. and Ms. Mylast) on the Christmas
> card envelope (return address portion) didn't help but rather
> inflamed things a little -- the next bit of correspondance we
> got still had the Mr. and Mrs. Hislast part, *and* he got a
> talking to, via his aunt, on the matter. He was told that my
> card enveolope was not received well by the grandparents and
> that we had upset them.
> Huh - what about the fact of them upsetting me with their
> antiquated and incorrect choice of title/address?? What about
> the fact that these are _our_) names not theirs, and that a
> person has the right to choose what name by which to be called??
>
Naomi Gayle Rivkis
wrote:
>Funny thing, though - the invoice from the w******* reception was addressed
>to Mr. and Mrs. Mylast. When he noticed it, he ranted and raved for a good
>five minutes. When he calmed down, I asked him to explain why that was more
>offensive than something addressed to Mr. and Mrs. Hisfirst Hislast. I
>think (hope) he's got it now. ;-)
I would certainly hope so!! Good for you!
CatMom0823
><grin> I don't have my father's name either, actually I have my
>mother's. We're on our third generation of matrilineal descent;
my
>daughters will be the fourth.
>
That is SO cool! :) I would love to give HFDs my last name.
However, DH still hasn't quite recovered from my decision to go
BACK to maiden name after 1.5 years of marriage (long story!)
and I know he wants all HFC to have his last name. At least my
last name (Jessie) is very conducive to middle name-ness.
:) Dianne
TracyZ
>>
We're on our third generation of matrilineal descent; my
>daughters will be the fourth.
>
> -Naomi
>
We're starting this in our family too. As for whether it will
become a generational thing, who knows? Doesn't matter to me
really. The next generation has their choice of what to do.
As for the Mr./Mrs./Ms. thing. I don't mind it as much as
others. What irritates me is the mis-spelling of my name
(Tracey). What irritates me more is getting engraved gifts that
have "Dan and Tracy Hislast" on them. We received a really nice
handsomely bound book for a w****** gift, but it had incorrect
names engraved (not engraved, but whatever it is called) on the
front cover. Why not just "Dan and Tracy"?
Since neither me nor Dan have changed our names, and we
specifically had ourselves announced as Mr. and Mrs. Mylast
Hislast (right after the ceremony, as we entered the reception,
and typed on our program), that's what we want to be called
(formally). I agree with titles being a bit pretentious in a
casual setting with people you communicate with often, etc. So,
anyway, as for whether people will follow our lead, and call us
what we want to be called, we'll have to wait and see. In the
long run, I don't really care. But, if we are incorrectly
addressed by older members (meaning grandparents) of the
families, we'll let it slide. Trying to explain our decision to
them is like trying to explain color to a blind person. It's
useless really. I'm not going to let myself get all upset about
it. Now, as for parents, aunts, uncles, siblings, etc. not
addressing as we wish.....we'll probably let that slide too for
the most part...but if I have a problem with the way Dan's
parents address me, I'll speak to them. Dan would speak to them
if I asked him to, but I'm capable of explaining my decision to
them by myself. We've got many more things to worry about than
our preferred form of address (FWIW, that's not a dig on any of
you who really detest being called something you don't want to
be called. I just feel life is too short for these matters.)
Tracy
Teej
>On Wed, 24 May 2000 12:59:05 -0700, CatMom0823
><destiny...@sundial.net.invalid> wrote:
>>Holly wrote:
>>>I still can't STAND being called "Mrs." anything, but that's
>>actually a
>>>completely different issue. :-)
>>
>>Me neither! :) Dianne
>Me three, me three! I absolutely snarled at Manny to deal with his
>family when they sent an anniversary card to Mr. and Mrs. Jacobowitz.
>They're mostly nice people, but we are the only split-name couple out
>of six children, and they just can't get used to it. (Meanwhile, MY
>mother keeps dropping little hints to make sure we're still intending
>at least some of HFC to have my last name instead of DH's. We are.)
> -Naomi
Mr & Mrs Lastname does not bother me nearly as much as
Mr & Mrs HisFirstName Lastname.
The idea that I loss my first name just because I am married really
annoys me!
Lynn A.
called MRS. Arngrimson. I'm proud of it. I don't feel like
I've lost any part of my identity or who I am by taking my
husband's last name. I had my maiden name and married name
hyphenated during an ex marriage and that caused more
problems and confusion than it was worth. Even though my
parents are no longer alive and there were no sons to carry
on the family name, I'll always be a Meyer at heart and
that's all that matters to me. Heck, I still get asked what
my mother's maiden name was on forms, etc., so it's not like
my maiden name will ever be completely lost.
To each their own, I'm not putting anyone else down that
feels differently than I do, just stating my thoughts.
Lynn
Lynn
Naomi Gayle Rivkis wrote:
>
> On Wed, 24 May 2000 12:59:05 -0700, CatMom0823
> <destiny...@sundial.net.invalid> wrote:
>
> >Holly wrote:
> >>I still can't STAND being called "Mrs." anything, but that's
> >actually a
> >>completely different issue. :-)
> >
> >Me neither! :) Dianne
>
> Me three, me three! I absolutely snarled at Manny to deal with his
> family when they sent an anniversary card to Mr. and Mrs. Jacobowitz.
> They're mostly nice people, but we are the only split-name couple out
> of six children, and they just can't get used to it. (Meanwhile, MY
> mother keeps dropping little hints to make sure we're still intending
> at least some of HFC to have my last name instead of DH's. We are.)
>
> -Naomi
>
Hilary Carter
> for us for months! This year at Christmas, we started receiving cards
> addressed to Mr. (or Dr.) and Mrs. Hisfirst Hislast. The first couple of
> times I was polite, telephoning the offenders and gently explaining that (a)
> we weren't yet married and (b) I wasn't planning on changing my name in any
> case. After a while it got tiresome, and now it's *really* a sore point
> with me.
We jsut confused everyone. We've BOTH changed name, to hsi mother's
maiden name, for many reasons, including the fact that only an idiot would
spell Carter wrong!
Hilary
----------------
Jocelyn
J Peters <jeanp...@ireland.com> wrote:
> I did finally get through to my mother why I was upset when people did the
> Mr & Mrs thing - I asked her how she'd feel if someone kept calling her
> Daphne, even though she'd told them several times that her name was
Patricia
Exactly!!! It's not that I have some deep-seated ideological objection to
being called Mrs. Hislast - it's just ***not my name***. I get just as
worked up when people call me the wrong first name (which they do,
frequently), but somehow people think it's okay to get upset about being
called the wrong first name, but not the wrong last name. <sigh>
- Jocelyn
Naomi Gayle Rivkis
<destiny...@sundial.net.invalid> wrote:
>Naomi posted:
>><grin> I don't have my father's name either, actually I have my
>>mother's. We're on our third generation of matrilineal descent;
>>my daughters will be the fourth.
>
>That is SO cool! :) I would love to give HFDs my last name.
>However, DH still hasn't quite recovered from my decision to go
>BACK to maiden name after 1.5 years of marriage (long story!)
>and I know he wants all HFC to have his last name. At least my
>last name (Jessie) is very conducive to middle name-ness.
>:) Dianne
I guess I don't quite get this kind of attitude. I really, truly,
honestly don't mean any offense, but I'm trying to understand and I
just can't. There were a few times when Manny hinted that he wanted
something which did not involve clear and absolute equality within our
family. I told him no. On the very rare occasions when it mattered to
him enough to fight about, we fought about it, and we kept fighting
about it till I damned well won, because one of the things I am simply
not willing to do is in *ANY* trace of a way be subordinate to
*ANYBODY*. I didn't care if it was "just symbolic," I didn't care if
it would make him happy -- he didn't have a right to it, and tht was
all there was to it. I do other things to make him happy, I don't put
myself in an inferior role to do so, either directly or via HFC. In
general, he understands this and doesn't ask it of me, and like I
said, when he does, I don't budge; I don't think I could marry a man
who didn't accept that, no matter how perfect he was in other regards.
It would feel like slavery. I'm really trying to understand how any
woman can think the way you do, it just seems so alien to my own
experience that I have a hard time with it -- can you explain why, and
how, you can make yourself accept such a blatant double standard just
to please him? And how you can respect someone who holds double
standards? I'm not talking now about couples which decide together
that they *want* to share his (or her) last name; I'm talking
specifically about the, "I'd love to do it equally but equality would
make him upset, so I won't demand it" position.
-Naomi, confused and troubled
J Peters
Jocelyn wrote
>
> Funny thing, though - the invoice from the w******* reception was
addressed
> to Mr. and Mrs. Mylast. When he noticed it, he ranted and raved for a good
> five minutes. When he calmed down, I asked him to explain why that was
more
> offensive than something addressed to Mr. and Mrs. Hisfirst Hislast. I
> think (hope) he's got it now. ;-)
My problem is that DH finds it funny when he gets called Mr Peters and can't
see why I find being called Mrs Lynam a problem! The subject of him
changing his name hasn't arisen though (and I wouldn't ask him to either).
I did finally get through to my mother why I was upset when people did the
Mr & Mrs thing - I asked her how she'd feel if someone kept calling her
Daphne, even though she'd told them several times that her name was Patricia
(no offence to any Daphne's, it was the first name that came into my head at
the time!). She finally got it, though she still thinks it'd be better for
my blood pressure to remain clam about it :-).
Jean
Naomi Gayle Rivkis
>In <392c3616...@news.cris.com> nri...@concentric.net (Naomi Gayle Rivkis) writes:
>
>>On Wed, 24 May 2000 12:59:05 -0700, CatMom0823
>><destiny...@sundial.net.invalid> wrote:
>
>>>Holly wrote:
>>>>I still can't STAND being called "Mrs." anything, but that's
>>>actually a
>>>>completely different issue. :-)
>>>
>>>Me neither! :) Dianne
>
>>Me three, me three! I absolutely snarled at Manny to deal with his
>>family when they sent an anniversary card to Mr. and Mrs. Jacobowitz.
>>They're mostly nice people, but we are the only split-name couple out
>>of six children, and they just can't get used to it. (Meanwhile, MY
>>mother keeps dropping little hints to make sure we're still intending
>>at least some of HFC to have my last name instead of DH's. We are.)
>
>Mr & Mrs Lastname does not bother me nearly as much as
>Mr & Mrs HisFirstName Lastname.
>
>The idea that I loss my first name just because I am married really
>annoys me!
<shrug> Different strokes. The idea that I lose *any* of my name just
because I am married really nnoys me! :)
-Naomi
Sara-anne
I didn't change my name, but I still answer to Mrs. HisLast. I
figure, if someone is going to use Mrs. for referring to me,
HisLast is more appropriate than MyLast. I generally don't
correct people unless they ask. A friend sent us an email
shortly after the w* and referred to me as Mrs. HisFirst HisLast,
just to see my reaction. I signed the reply from Mr. MyFirst
MyLast and Mrs. HisFirst HisLast. :^)
Sara
>Mr & Mrs Lastname does not bother me nearly as much as
>Mr & Mrs HisFirstName Lastname.
>
>The idea that I loss my first name just because I am married
really
>annoys me!
Karina Wright
: To each their own, I'm not putting anyone else down that
: feels differently than I do, just stating my thoughts.
: Lynn
For me, I don't really care what name I use. It seemed "right" to take
DH's last name, so I've been using it socially since the we**ing. I
haven't gotten all my ID and everything officially changed (need to get my
license renewed in a couple of weeks anyway - I'll get around to it then).
The funny thing is, either of us will answer to either name when people
phone. Someone asks for Miss/Ms/Mrs Wright/Clark, I will answer. Someone
asks for Mr Wright/Clark, he will answer. Usually it's telemarketers, and
since the phone is in my name (and we haven't changed my name with the
phone company), they frequently ask for Mr Wright.
--
Karina Clark
Liz Nyman
and I still feel like i'm in an odd game of "Let's Play Grown-Up".
Even more-so when I said to my 2.5 yo the other day, "Emily Victoria!
Will you please stop licking your sister?".
Liz
Hilary Carter wrote:
>
> We're married, living together, starting the chance-of-name process...
> when does it become real? I still feel not old enouhg/adult enough in
> some ways (outside me, if that makes sense) even though I know I'm right,
> and we've been engaged 18 months after being friends for 3 years...
> (Don't get me wrong - I love it, and my DH, it just feels strange!)
>
> So, what made it real for you? When did you start *thinking* of yourself
> as being married, or Mrs X, without the "ooh, it's all new" feeling? When
> did you really believe it?
>
> Hilary
>
> ----------------
>
> http://www.scottishmagic.co.uk
Jennifer Lafferty
Rivkis) wrote:
>95% I agree with you on this, but a part of me wants to drpo it into
>what my father explained to me t nine was the Ninety-Year-Old-Aunt
>Rule. AKA there are things which ninety year old aunts can get away
>with which nobody would be unconscionable if anyone else did it. I
>agree that your husband should talk to his family about this on
>you-as-a-couple's behalf, and I agree that if he really won't you have
>every right to do so yourself, I would just probably personally let
>them get away with it. I WON'T let Manny's sisters and brothers of our
>own generation get away with it.
Exactly. Just like certain elderly relatives of mine are allowed to
call me "Jenny" when anyone under the age of 70 would be firmly told
that I haven't gone by "Jenny" in 15 years.
Jennifer
Robin
> AAAHHHHHH!
>
May I join in? Our "main offenders" are Eric's aunts, and our contact
with them is so limited it doesn't seem to be worth the hassle of
getting Eric to say something about it (and although he would, he
wouldn't want to =) so I just seethe when we get yet another wedding
invitation.
It's cute though, Eric was filling out the response card for one of them
and he called out to me "Tell me what I'm supposed to write again? Ms.
& Mr. Robin and Eric...?" Because he does know that my passive-
aggressive way of influencing change is to use the "correct" form
whenever feasible for those who need correcting. I even printed up a
few return address labels (normally they just say "Robin & Eric...") for
those who need it spelled out for them.
--
There's no need to e-mail me a copy of a follow-up; but if you do,
please identify it as such.
Robin
> Funny thing, though - the invoice from the w******* reception was addressed
> to Mr. and Mrs. Mylast. When he noticed it, he ranted and raved for a good
> five minutes. When he calmed down, I asked him to explain why that was more
> offensive than something addressed to Mr. and Mrs. Hisfirst Hislast. I
> think (hope) he's got it now. ;-)
>
=)
Part of my problem is that it wouldn't phase Eric in the least for
something to come to "Mr. & Mrs. MyOldLast", he's just too darned laid
back and level-headed. Grr.
Robin
A. > Mr & Mrs Lastname does not bother me nearly as much as
B. > Mr & Mrs HisFirstName Lastname.
>
> The idea that I loss my first name just because I am married really
> annoys me!
>
me nearly as much as A either, but it still bothers me!
In addition to being rather fond of my first name, and *not* having
chosen to change it to "Eric" (lovely name that it is) the fact that a
woman's marital status should be indicated by her title while a man's
shouldn't, well, it just makes my head spin.
Robin
> How about Mrs. HisFirst HisLast? Ick!
>
even open the invitation right away because I saw "Eric OurLast" and
just tossed it aside for him!
Then when I went to give it to Eric, I realized that it was probably
intended for me. I asked my friend about it later, and she said that
her sister and aunt had done the shower invites, unbeknownst to her.
Ok, that made sense. Then the wedding invitation came, and it was
addressed to "Mr. and Mrs. Eric OurLast"! I asked my friend about this
one too, and she said her parents had done the invitations, and they
*refused* to listen to her, insisting that "Mr. & Mrs..." was the
"proper" way to address the invitation.
Sigh. Some people. If it's really *so* important to do what's
"proper", wouldn't it do you well to get an etiquette book and learn
that addressing people by a name you *know* (and they did, my friend
told them) they detest is exceedingly rude?!
Kris Hildrum
Hilary Carter <hil...@tardis.ed.ac.uk> wrote:
>So, what made it real for you? When did you start *thinking* of yourself
>as being married, or Mrs X, without the "ooh, it's all new" feeling? When
>did you really believe it?
I realized that we were really getting married when I realized
that his CDs were my CDs!
Kris
HollyLewis
>see why I find being called Mrs Lynam a problem!
Ya know, I think I'd be less PO'd if someone called me "Ms. Hisname" than when
they call me "Mrs. Hisname" (especially Mrs. Hisfirst Hislast). Unfortunately,
not everyone sees it this way. (In my book, whether a particular woman does or
does not share a name with her husband is pretty meaningless as a social issue,
whereas the title "Mrs." is incredibly sexist by definition and NOBODY SHOULD
USE IT EVER FOR ANYONE. I know not all of you agree, but that's my value
judgment for the day.)
Anyway, context is all. Neither of us is going to get too bent out of joint
when a ticket agent or maitre d' glances at a reservation and then calls us
"Mr. and Ms. Hisname" or "Mr. and Ms. Hername" neither of which is actually
correct. But when our friends or relatives, who were at our wedding and had
the opportunity to see our explanation of our married name solution in the
program, have received numerous cards and invitations from us with our correct
name(s) on the return address, and in some cases have heard the full
explanation one or more times in person or over the phone -- when THEY get it
wrong it is really crazy-making. More so for me than for DH, but he doesn't
appreciate it either.
Holly
HollyLewis
>spell Carter wrong!
You'd be surprised. Someday some clerk will decide you're a Kartyr. :-)
Holly
aMAZon
Hilary Carter wrote:
> So, what made it real for you? When did you start *thinking* of yourself
> as being married, or Mrs X, without the "ooh, it's all new" feeling? When
> did you really believe it?
I'm still working on that one, and we'll be married ten years next
month.
When we were on our honeymoon, we met an elderly couple who wanted to
know
what we were doing. We said, "We're on our honeymoon." The husband
replied, "We've been married 56 years, and we're still on ours!"
We're shooting for a similar record. :-)
What's weirder is to think of myself as "Mom" -- who is this little
person
running around my house, and how did she get here? (I know, I know, and
I was with her literally every moment of her existence for months!)
--
aMAZon
zesz...@worldnet.att.net
"It's never too late to have a happy childhood."
aMAZon
Barbara wrote:
> Putting our 'social name' (Mr. and Ms. Mylast) on the Christmas
> card envelope (return address portion) didn't help but rather
> inflamed things a little -- the next bit of correspondance we
> got still had the Mr. and Mrs. Hislast part, *and* he got a
> talking to, via his aunt, on the matter. He was told that my
> card enveolope was not received well by the grandparents and
> that we had upset them.
> Huh - what about the fact of them upsetting me with their
> antiquated and incorrect choice of title/address?? What about
> the fact that these are _our_) names not theirs, and that a
> person has the right to choose what name by which to be called??
Friends of ours changed both their names when they got married.
This was in the early '80's, when it wasn't quite so common.
We got used to it, but had to chuckle at one Christmas card they sent.
The return address had
Jim and Marcia Lastname
NOT "Mr. and Mrs. James Lastname"
and we mean it!
Street address
City, state zip
We addressed our Christmas card to them that year thusly:
Jim and Marcia Lastname
and we know you mean it!
Street address
City, state and zip
aMAZon
Teej wrote:
> Mr & Mrs Lastname does not bother me nearly as much as
> Mr & Mrs HisFirstName Lastname.
>
> The idea that I loss my first name just because I am married really
> annoys me!
Read Jane Austen. It used to be the custom for daughters-in-law to
not be referred to as Sarah or Jane, but as "Mrs. John" or "Mrs.
Charles"
or something.
aMAZon
Jocelyn wrote:
>
> J Peters <jeanp...@ireland.com> wrote:
>
> > I did finally get through to my mother why I was upset when people did the
> > Mr & Mrs thing - I asked her how she'd feel if someone kept calling her
> > Daphne, even though she'd told them several times that her name was
> Patricia
>
> Exactly!!! It's not that I have some deep-seated ideological objection to
> being called Mrs. Hislast - it's just ***not my name***. I get just as
> worked up when people call me the wrong first name (which they do,
> frequently), but somehow people think it's okay to get upset about being
> called the wrong first name, but not the wrong last name. <sigh>
DH picked up a prescription for me once. It was, of course, under my
name,
which is not the same as his. Mine is also identifiably ethnic, and can
be
difficult to pronounce. (His is ethnic, but easy.)
He got "good husband points" when he responded to "Mr. Zessostuto" (or
something like that).
aMAZon
Has anyone thought of *this* for a name for a HFC? I gotta admit,
the spelling's unique.
Megan
Naomi Gayle Rivkis <nri...@concentric.net> wrote in message
news:392c3edc...@news.cris.com...
> 95% I agree with you on this, but a part of me wants to drpo it into
> what my father explained to me t nine was the Ninety-Year-Old-Aunt
> Rule. AKA there are things which ninety year old aunts can get away
> with which nobody would be unconscionable if anyone else did it.
OTOH I was amazed at my Great Grandmother's resilience on this one when my
cousin had a baby out of wedlock a few years ago. When Kim was pregnant
people kept saying things like "oh, you'll enjoy going to the wedding then
won't you" and would refer to "your grand-daughter and her husband" to which
my (then) 97 year old staunchly catholic French Great Grandmother would
reply (imagine this in a thick mixture of French and Scots accents) "Oh no,
they're not getting married - its the modern way you know, quite normal
these days, they're just living together".
She shocked other women in the rest home who were old enough to be her
daughter!
Megan
Megan
Jocelyn <gnir...@earthlink.not> wrote in message
news:2nXW4.31866$S31.6...@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
> We've only been married for <counting> 19 days, but this has been an issue
> for us for months! This year at Christmas, we started receiving cards
> addressed to Mr. (or Dr.) and Mrs. Hisfirst Hislast. The first couple of
> times I was polite, telephoning the offenders and gently explaining that
(a)
> we weren't yet married and (b) I wasn't planning on changing my name in
any
> case. After a while it got tiresome, and now it's *really* a sore point
> with me.
>
Lawrence
> Hislast and Jocelyn Mylast, and he is in charge of explaining it as often
as
> necessary to any of his friends or relatives who get it wrong from here on
> out. My (and our common) friends and relatives already all know better.
We have the opposite problems, I changed my name (well, I am now Megan
mylast hislast) and we still get letters and cards address to Neil hislast
and Megan mylast or indeed more than once to Neil and Megan mylast.
Megan
Rebecca
Wright) wrote:
>For me, I don't really care what name I use. It seemed "right" to take
>DH's last name, so I've been using it socially since the we**ing. I
>haven't gotten all my ID and everything officially changed (need to get my
>license renewed in a couple of weeks anyway - I'll get around to it then).
>The funny thing is, either of us will answer to either name when people
>phone. Someone asks for Miss/Ms/Mrs Wright/Clark, I will answer. Someone
>asks for Mr Wright/Clark, he will answer. Usually it's telemarketers, and
>since the phone is in my name (and we haven't changed my name with the
>phone company), they frequently ask for Mr Wright.
We don't respond to each other's names - it's a key way to sniff out
telemarketers!
Actually what usually happens is they will ask for Ms. MyLast and he
will say I'm not there. Then they ask if he is Mr. MyLast and he
politely tells them there is no one here by that name.
We joke that if someday we have a son and give him MyLast, we should
hand the phone to him when telemarkers call, especially if he is
around two years old. "No-no, no-no, no-no, no-no, no!" *G*
Rebecca / rc...@deja.com
Rebecca
>Then when I went to give it to Eric, I realized that it was probably
>intended for me. I asked my friend about it later, and she said that
>her sister and aunt had done the shower invites, unbeknownst to her.
>Ok, that made sense. Then the wedding invitation came, and it was
>addressed to "Mr. and Mrs. Eric OurLast"! I asked my friend about this
>one too, and she said her parents had done the invitations, and they
>*refused* to listen to her, insisting that "Mr. & Mrs..." was the
>"proper" way to address the invitation.
>
>Sigh. Some people. If it's really *so* important to do what's
>"proper", wouldn't it do you well to get an etiquette book and learn
>that addressing people by a name you *know* (and they did, my friend
>told them) they detest is exceedingly rude?!
I was glancing at the W invite list and noticed that every couple
where they shared a last name was addressed as Mr. and Mrs. LastName
(whereas if they didn't change names, it was Mr. HisLast and Ms.
HerLast) To be honest that was the way I was raised; if they have the
same last name, call her Mrs. LastName, if not, call her Ms. LastName.
It wasn't until I came here that I realized there are people who
changed their last name but detest "Mrs."
Someone's got to get this tidbit out in the open or people will
continually be addressed in a way they don't prefer. Just because a
woman changes her name doesn't mean she wishes to be address Mrs.!
Rebecca / rc...@deja.com
Rebecca
wrote:
>Friends of ours changed both their names when they got married.
>This was in the early '80's, when it wasn't quite so common.
>We got used to it, but had to chuckle at one Christmas card they sent.
>The return address had
> Jim and Marcia Lastname
> NOT "Mr. and Mrs. James Lastname"
> and we mean it!
> Street address
> City, state zip
Hey, if you have the chutzpah to do that...it makes the point!
>We addressed our Christmas card to them that year thusly:
> Jim and Marcia Lastname
> and we know you mean it!
> Street address
> City, state and zip
Good response!
Rebecca / rc...@deja.com
Geri.Clark
<zesz...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>DH picked up a prescription for me once. It was, of course,
under my
>name,
>which is not the same as his. Mine is also identifiably
ethnic, and can
>be
>difficult to pronounce. (His is ethnic, but easy.)
>
>He got "good husband points" when he responded to "Mr.
Zessostuto" (or
>something like that).
DH now uses my name fairly regularly when making dinner
reservations or anything where he has to leave a name. My name
is common enough and easy enough to spell/pronounce, but his
tends to throw people.
I just smile quietly, add up his "good husband points", and
count my blessings that he's a good guy :-)
Sara-anne
> I'm 22, been married for over three-and-a-half years, with two
children,
> and I still feel like i'm in an odd game of "Let's Play Grown-Up".
>
> Even more-so when I said to my 2.5 yo the other day, "Emily Victoria!
> Will you please stop licking your sister?".
HAHAHAHAHA!!! Oh, too funny!
Sara
--
Email at this address is never read.
Please post replies, or send them to:
staylor -at- space -dot- mit -dot- edu
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Vicky Larmour
> I guess I'm just old fashioned but I absolutely love being
>called MRS. Arngrimson. I'm proud of it. I don't feel like
>I've lost any part of my identity or who I am by taking my
>husband's last name.
Me too (well, Mrs. Larmour, not Mrs. Arngrimson :-))! I am still "a Wilks"
even though that's not part of my official name any more.
I like the feeling of having our last names be the same, it just seems like
it's one more thing that unites us as a couple. As for whether to choose his
last name, my maiden name, some combination, or another completely random
name - us, our families and our backgrounds are "traditional" enough that it
was pretty much assumed we would use his name, which was totally fine by me.
Mostly due to reading stuff on the w* groups, we did briefly contemplate
hyphenating but neither Larmour-Wilks nor Wilks-Larmour really have "the
right ring" to them.
Vicky
--
vicky.larmour[at]camcon.co.uk All opinions mine.
The "unofficial offical alt.newlywed page" and a.n FAQ:
http://www.jifvik.demon.co.uk/newlywed/newlywed.htm
Geri.Clark
rc...@deja.com (Rebecca) wrote:
>I was glancing at the W invite list and noticed that every
couple
>where they shared a last name was addressed as Mr. and Mrs.
LastName
>(whereas if they didn't change names, it was Mr. HisLast and Ms.
>HerLast) To be honest that was the way I was raised; if they
have the
>same last name, call her Mrs. LastName, if not, call her Ms.
LastName.
>It wasn't until I came here that I realized there are people who
>changed their last name but detest "Mrs."
Hehe. I think my mom was ahead of her time. She *hates*
being "Mrs. OurLastName", even though she took my dad's name.
Ever since I can remember, she's told people "Mrs. OurLastName
is my mother-in-law; use my first name or call me Ms." She
doesn't really object to the "Mrs" part so much, I think she
just thinks of my grandmother as "Mrs. OurLastName" and so can't
think of herself that way.
Now I know *exactly* how she's felt all these years. I didn't
change my name, but still occasioanlly get called "Mrs.
DH'sName" (I won't rant about how much this ticks me off; others
have already done it for me) and I always turn around and look
for my MIL!
>
>Someone's got to get this tidbit out in the open or people will
>continually be addressed in a way they don't prefer. Just
because a
>woman changes her name doesn't mean she wishes to be address
Mrs.!
We're trying, we're trying...sigh... :-)
Barbara
Jennifer Lafferty <jent...@att.not> wrote:
>On 24 May 2000 16:46:47 EDT, nri...@concentric.net (Naomi Gayle
>Rivkis) wrote:
>
it into
>>what my father explained to me t nine was the Ninety-Year-Old-
Aunt
>>Rule. AKA there are things which ninety year old aunts can get
away
>>with which nobody would be unconscionable if anyone else did
>>agree that your husband should talk to his family about this on
>>you-as-a-couple's behalf, and I agree that if he really won't
you have
>>every right to do so yourself, I would just probably
personally let
>>them get away with it. I WON'T let Manny's sisters and
brothers of our
>>own generation get away with it.
>
>Exactly. Just like certain elderly relatives of mine are
allowed to
>call me "Jenny" when anyone under the age of 70 would be firmly
told
>that I haven't gone by "Jenny" in 15 years.
>
>Jennifer
Ah, but "Jenny" atleast a short form for your actual name --
using Mrs. Hislast isn't the same 'minor' thing for me as both
parts are inaccurate: I would never use the title "Mrs." for
anything (and all of the family knows this!), and my name just
isn't "Hislast".
And, while life is short, and I do overlook this sort of thing
from random telemarketers, distant acquaintances and the like
(well, ont he name thing, not the presumption of Mrs. over
Ms.!), these are my close family members we're talking about!
They are not random people off the street who are in a contest
to guess at my prefered name, they are people who know that I
did not change my name, and that I have been using "Ms." for as
long as they have known me -- as Ms., not as some sort of grown
up "Miss" which must be what these people think Ms. should be.
I'm tempted to send them the same email message we sent Julian's
ex travel agency (where we were listed as Mr. and Mrs. Hisfirst
Hislast!!): If they wish to list us under one name, then Mr. and
Ms. Mylast is fine, since Julian did legally change his name
(atleast as a middle name). Otherwise, Mr. Hislast and Ms.
Mylast is good, too.
BTW, this reminds me - when my DH was a young teenager (13-
15yrs) he wanted a middle name, and wanted ths middle name to be
"Darwin" after Charles Darwin, _Origin of the Species_ and all
that :-) Neither of his parents would permit him to do this,
and said he should wait 'til he was 18 and able to make the
legal change on his own. He must have forgotten about it for a
short while 'cause he didn't change it on his 18th birthday or
anything, and then just after he turned 20, he started adting
me and 'fell into' a new middle name - my surname! It's funny,
'cause DH had never told me this story during all of our
discussions about names, and I heard it from my FIL when we went
to retrieve documents for the UK passport application. It's the
quirky kind of thing which is very typical of my DH....Darwin,
geez, I'm glad he waited for "Warner"!
Cheers,
Barbara
Need a little R&R?
Visit Alt.newlywed today!
My 'real' email address: barbara <at> ncf <dot> ca
Megan
Vicky Larmour <vicky....@camcon.co.nospam.uk> wrote in message
news:8gj4js$96r$2...@andromeda.camcon.co.uk...
> I like the feeling of having our last names be the same, it just seems
like
> it's one more thing that unites us as a couple. As for whether to choose
his
> last name, my maiden name, some combination, or another completely random
> name - us, our families and our backgrounds are "traditional" enough that
it
> was pretty much assumed we would use his name, which was totally fine by
me.
> Mostly due to reading stuff on the w* groups, we did briefly contemplate
> hyphenating but neither Larmour-Wilks nor Wilks-Larmour really have "the
> right ring" to them.
I considered the hyphenation thing as well - but with Montgomery in teh
equation we pretty much left it without - our names are long enough as it
is.
HFCs will have Farr as a middle name though and I occasionally go by Megan
Farr Montgomery - without the hyphen.
Megan
Heidi Thurtle
>
> I guess I'm just old fashioned but I absolutely love being
> called MRS. Arngrimson. I'm proud of it. I don't feel like
> I've lost any part of my identity or who I am by taking my
> hyphenated during an ex marriage and that caused more
> problems and confusion than it was worth. Even though my
> parents are no longer alive and there were no sons to carry
> on the family name, I'll always be a Meyer at heart and
> that's all that matters to me. Heck, I still get asked what
> my mother's maiden name was on forms, etc., so it's not like
> my maiden name will ever be completely lost.
> To each their own, I'm not putting anyone else down that
> feels differently than I do, just stating my thoughts.
>
> Lynn
>
I feel the same way, Lynn. I am proud to be Mrs. Thurtle, and I even
get a little smile when I see things addressed to Mrs. Christopher
Thurtle. I dont feel like I have lost any of my identity, but I dont
base my identity on my name anyway. I am who I am , even if someone
calls me schmoopy schmooperson.
There are no sons to carry on my maiden name either, but that is fine
with me!
Heidi
Jodi
Lynn A. wrote in message <392C4F21...@inlink.com>...
> To each their own, I'm not putting anyone else down that
>feels differently than I do, just stating my thoughts.
I don't mind being called Mrs. Ourlast (gee, I think it's happened maybe 3
times since we got married :) I dislike Mrs. Hisfirst Ourlast but I don't
call up my grandmother and tell her not to address things that way. I
dislike formality in general and would much prefer people didn't use a title
when referring to me.
I changed my name solely because we planned to have children and I wanted us
all to have the same last name. DH was fine with the thought of me not
changing my name but didn't want to change his.
Jodi
Sara-anne
> Mostly due to reading stuff on the w* groups, we did briefly
contemplate
> hyphenating but neither Larmour-Wilks nor Wilks-Larmour really have
"the
> right ring" to them.
I kind of wish that was an option for me, but there was NO WAY I was
going to have a hyphenated first AND last name! That would have also
made my full name 36 characters long! Ugh!
TracyZ
>Mostly due to reading stuff on the w* groups, we did briefly
contemplate
>hyphenating but neither Larmour-Wilks nor Wilks-Larmour really
have "the
>right ring" to them.
>
Actually, both of those options sound nice to me! I'm pretty
much of the mindset that any two names that are 1 or 2 syllables
long can hyphenate well. Just my opinion though.
Tracy
Vicky Larmour
>(Vicky Larmour) wrote:
>>Mostly due to reading stuff on the w* groups, we did briefly
>>contemplate hyphenating but neither Larmour-Wilks nor Wilks-Larmour
>>really have "the right ring" to them.
>
>Actually, both of those options sound nice to me! I'm pretty
>much of the mindset that any two names that are 1 or 2 syllables
>long can hyphenate well. Just my opinion though.
Hmmm, interesting. I really can't get my tongue round either of them! :-)
Of course, we could have combined the names and gone for "Wilmour" or "Larks"
or something.... :-)
Vicky Larmour
>There were a few times when Manny hinted that he wanted
>something which did not involve clear and absolute equality within our
>family. I told him no. On the very rare occasions when it mattered to
>him enough to fight about, we fought about it, and we kept fighting
>about it till I damned well won, because one of the things I am simply
>not willing to do is in *ANY* trace of a way be subordinate to
>*ANYBODY*. I didn't care if it was "just symbolic," I didn't care if
>it would make him happy -- he didn't have a right to it, and tht was
>all there was to it. I do other things to make him happy, I don't put
>myself in an inferior role to do so, either directly or via HFC.
I've thought long and hard about this; I'm wondering if you can give some
examples of what you mean? (Not necessarily personal ones, obviously, just
examples!)
I mean, in this respect, how do you "define" equality? Jonathan and I have
similar jobs, but we work in different companies and we are paid different
amounts. Does the fact that he earns (significantly) more than I do make me
"subordinate" or "inferior" to him in that respect?
In fact, I can't think of any examples where we are exactly equal. I do
more household chores than he does; he does more DIY and gardening stuff
than I do. He normally drives if we go on a long journey. I normally make
the bookings for restaurants and holidays and theatres. I have more clothes
and shoes than he does; he has more CDs than I do.
I guess what matters to me is that we are both happy with the status quo;
what would be "subordinate" or "inferior" would be if I didn't like the
status quo (for whatever reason) but he did.
But still, if we say "equality" is that both people should be equally happy
with each aspect of their lives together, well, that isn't going to happen
either! Of course there are some things where it just isn't possible to
compromise; you have to go with one side or the other (no middle ground).
Obviously, ideally you have to try and ensure that the decisions go
relatively equally to either side; but how do you weigh that up?
For example (made up example, not real!), if my DH wanted to buy a CD that
I didn't like, didn't want to listen to, and didn't think we could afford
the money for, we could argue (in the "debate" sense of the word) about it
and eventually a decision would be made. Suppose I eventually give in /
he convinces me, and he buys it. Then the next week, I want to spend an
evening reading at home, and he wants me to help him clean the car. We
argue, this time I win and I read while he cleans the car. Are we now
"equal" because we've both "lost" one decision? Are the decisions equally
weighted? etc etc etc.
>I'm really trying to understand how any
>woman can think the way you do, it just seems so alien to my own
>experience that I have a hard time with it -- can you explain why, and
>how, you can make yourself accept such a blatant double standard just
>to please him? And how you can respect someone who holds double
>standards? I'm not talking now about couples which decide together
>that they *want* to share his (or her) last name; I'm talking
>specifically about the, "I'd love to do it equally but equality would
>make him upset, so I won't demand it" position.
I just don't see how any double standards are involved! As far as I can
see, both parties need to ensure that they are generally happy with the way
things are; if they're not, some debate ensues and possibly then changes
are made until everyone is (on average) happy.
Comments?
Karina Wright
: Actually, both of those options sound nice to me! I'm pretty
: much of the mindset that any two names that are 1 or 2 syllables
: long can hyphenate well. Just my opinion though.
: Tracy
Okay, I DEFINATELY disagree on this one. Wright-Clark and Clark-Wright
both sound ridiculous to me! I briefly thought of having a hyphenated
name until I put those two together. Awful.
But, I don't think I'd like a hyphenated name anyway, so I'm kinda glad I
think they sound bad together.
Having a hyph-name just seems like more trouble than it's worth.
:)
--
Karina Clark
Vicky Larmour
>Wright-Clark and Clark-Wright both sound ridiculous to me! I briefly
>thought of having a hyphenated name until I put those two together. Awful.
Clark-Wright reminds me of Clark-Maxwell (as in the Clark-Maxwell equations
for electromagnetic fields).
It also sounds like the single name Arkwright.
Wright-Clark sounds highly British upper-crust to me.
If you combined them you could have Wrark (sounds like an alien out of Star
Trek) or Clight (sounds plain weird) :-)))
This is fun... anyone else got any suggestions for hyphenated names or
combinations?
Geri.Clark
vicky....@camcon.co.nospam.uk (Vicky Larmour) wrote:
>
>If you combined them you could have Wrark (sounds like an alien
out of Star
>Trek) or Clight (sounds plain weird) :-)))
>
>This is fun... anyone else got any suggestions for hyphenated
names or
>combinations?
I dated a guy whose last name was Barr. I could have hyphenated
and been Clark-Barr (which is a semi-popular candy bar here in
the US, in case anyone doesn't know :-)
And I had a friend whose name was Manes (man-ess), married to a
Lucas. They joked they could combine them to Mucas (mucus).
DH and I refer to ourselves as "the Clarksteins". It's caught on
and other people (including my parents!) now call us this too :-)
Jocelyn
Vicky Larmour <vicky....@camcon.co.nospam.uk> wrote:
> This is fun... anyone else got any suggestions for hyphenated names or
> combinations?
You're welcome to try mine and DH's names - Gnirrep (me) and Reagan (him).
Good luck. ;-)
- Jocelyn
--
Change not to net to reply.
Sara-anne
> I dated a guy whose last name was Barr. I could have hyphenated
> and been Clark-Barr (which is a semi-popular candy bar here in
> the US, in case anyone doesn't know :-)
>
> And I had a friend whose name was Manes (man-ess), married to a
> Lucas. They joked they could combine them to Mucas (mucus).
>
> DH and I refer to ourselves as "the Clarksteins". It's caught on
> and other people (including my parents!) now call us this too :-)
I have a friend who's last name was Lucey. Her boyfriend in college's
last name was Dziura (pronounced Jur-ah). They said that if they got
married, they'd both change their names to Dziucy (Juicy). I thought
that was hillarious!
I did tell my FIL before we were married that we were both going to
change our name to a combined one. He got this look of horror on his
face, and I burst out laughing! It's very important to him that we have
a son with his last name, if you know what I mean.
HollyLewis
>even though that's not part of my official name any more.
>
>it's one more thing that unites us as a couple.
But Vicky, your logic is flawed. I agree with you that it's nice having the
same name; DH and I really wanted to have a common "family name". Not
important to everyone, to be sure, but it mattered to me.
Nevertheless, the title "Mrs." is right out. It's sexist. Plain and simple.
It's a distinguishing term used only for women, for which there is no parallel
for men, which implies that a woman's -- but not a man's -- marital status is
such an important fact about her that one MUST indicate that fact in every
communication one has with her.
Some people seem to think that this particular form of sexism is okay because
it's traditional or they think it's romantic. Whatever. I happen to find
sexism offensive, always, so I get offended when people use the term "Mrs."
Especially people who ought to know better. Especially since there is a
perfectly acceptable, commonly used, non-sexist alternative readily available.
Even if I had chosen to adopt DH's surname, I certainly would not want to
"Mrs." Hisname. I would be "Ms. Hisname". And I most definitely would not
have changed my FIRST name and I would still object to the not only sexist but
also highly illogical form "Mrs. Hisfirst Hislast."
Holly
klsimmons
> is okay because it's traditional or they think it's romantic.
> Whatever. I happen to find sexism offensive, always, so I get
> offended when people use the term "Mrs."
> Especially people who ought to know better. Especially since
> there is a perfectly acceptable, commonly used, non-sexist
> alternative readily available.
Yes, but aren't you being sexist by not allowing people to use
the term they prefer to use? It's perfectly acceptable for you
to insist that no one use "Mrs." when referring to you, but by
denying others the right to use it - and by refusing to use it
when it is their indicated preference, you are being just as
guilty of sexism as those who insist YOU must use it.
Karen
Naomi Gayle Rivkis
<gec22N...@cornell.edu.invalid> wrote:
>DH now uses my name fairly regularly when making dinner
>reservations or anything where he has to leave a name. My name
>is common enough and easy enough to spell/pronounce, but his
>tends to throw people.
My father does that with my stepmother's name for the same reason.
When he was married to my mother and *both* their last names were a
little tricky, they both tended to make restaurant reservations in my
mother's mother's maiden name, which was Brown. :)
-Naomi
There is no "they." To make a simple statement about a broad group of
people is to be wrong.
Kris Hildrum
Heidi Thurtle <thu...@frontiernet.net> wrote:
>
>I feel the same way, Lynn. I am proud to be Mrs. Thurtle, and I even
>get a little smile when I see things addressed to Mrs. Christopher
>Thurtle. I dont feel like I have lost any of my identity, but I dont
I don't understand this. I can understand being happy to see the
new name, mostly because it is an outward symbol of the fact that you're
together for ever. But I don't understand why it makes you proud.
Are you proud because you feel marrying your husband was an
accomplishment? Or are you proud to have been picked by him? Personally,
I am not proud for either of those reasons--I did not set out on a great
quest to rope a man into marrying me, so the first doesn't really apply.
And I don't like thinking that I'm just a piece of merchandice, so I'm not
exactly proud I was picked. Am I missing something here? I can
understand being happy to have one's husband's name, but not proud.
Kris
Kris Hildrum
aMAZon <zesz...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>
>
>Teej wrote:
>
>> Mr & Mrs Lastname does not bother me nearly as much as
>> Mr & Mrs HisFirstName Lastname.
>>
>> The idea that I loss my first name just because I am married really
>> annoys me!
>
>Read Jane Austen. It used to be the custom for daughters-in-law to
>not be referred to as Sarah or Jane, but as "Mrs. John" or "Mrs.
>Charles"
>or something.
What's really funny is that there are major female charactors for
which you don't even know their first name! Take, Mrs. Bennet, the mother
of Elizebeth and Jane. What's her first name? (It's probably Jane, since
mothers named their first daughter after themselves.)
Of course, men are also sometimes devoid of first names. Mr.
Darcy's first name only appears once in the book.
Kris
Naomi Gayle Rivkis
Hildrum) wrote:
> Of course, men are also sometimes devoid of first names. Mr.
>Darcy's first name only appears once in the book.
With a name like Fitzwilliam, would *you* go out of your way to use it
regularly? :)
>Kris
Shelly
vicky....@camcon.co.nospam.uk (Vicky Larmour) wrote:
> This is fun... anyone else got any suggestions for hyphenated names
or
> combinations?
I jokingly told DH we could combine our names (Stanislawski and Wruck)
to be one of the following:
Wruckstan
Wruckski
Stanruck
Stanisruckski
Wruckis (I thought this was pretty funny)
Wrucklawski
He wasn't nearly as amused as I was.
--
Shelly
To send mail: swruck at techie dot com
ICQ# 48983520
Naomi Gayle Rivkis
Larmour) wrote:
>In article <392c5435...@news.cris.com>, Naomi Gayle Rivkis wrote:
>>There were a few times when Manny hinted that he wanted
>>something which did not involve clear and absolute equality within our
>>family. I told him no. On the very rare occasions when it mattered to
>>him enough to fight about, we fought about it, and we kept fighting
>>about it till I damned well won, because one of the things I am simply
>>not willing to do is in *ANY* trace of a way be subordinate to
>>*ANYBODY*. I didn't care if it was "just symbolic," I didn't care if
>>it would make him happy -- he didn't have a right to it, and tht was
>>all there was to it. I do other things to make him happy, I don't put
>>myself in an inferior role to do so, either directly or via HFC.
>
>I've thought long and hard about this; I'm wondering if you can give some
>examples of what you mean? (Not necessarily personal ones, obviously, just
>examples!)
I guess what I mean by inequality is authority -- or the freedom to
claim or openly desire authority, even if it isn't granted -- over
what is properly the other person's sphere of influence. There are
decisions that are his to make and there are decisions tht are mine to
make and there are decisions that are ours to make together. Anything
that has to do with me personally, including my name, is wholly 100%
mine to make, and IMO it is wrong for him even to possess an opinion
on the subject.
>I mean, in this respect, how do you "define" equality? Jonathan and I have
>similar jobs, but we work in different companies and we are paid different
>amounts. Does the fact that he earns (significantly) more than I do make me
>"subordinate" or "inferior" to him in that respect?
No, but if you had any sort of authority over his work that he did not
have over yours or vice versa, it would be an inequality.
>I guess what matters to me is that we are both happy with the status quo;
>what would be "subordinate" or "inferior" would be if I didn't like the
>status quo (for whatever reason) but he did.
I was discussing specifically a case in which someone said that she
didn't like the status quo but had made it the status quo because he
did. Of course it's a woman's, or a man's, right to change their own
name if they please.
Naomi Gayle Rivkis
wrote:
>
>Vicky Larmour <vicky....@camcon.co.nospam.uk> wrote:
>
>> This is fun... anyone else got any suggestions for hyphenated names or
>> combinations?
>
>You're welcome to try mine and DH's names - Gnirrep (me) and Reagan (him).
>
>Good luck. ;-)
Gnirregan? :)
Barbara
hil...@kazoo.cs.berkeley.edu (Kris Hildrum) wrote:
>In article <392D2F...@frontiernet.net>,
>Heidi Thurtle <thu...@frontiernet.net> wrote:
>>
>>I feel the same way, Lynn. I am proud to be Mrs. Thurtle, and
I even
>>get a little smile when I see things addressed to Mrs.
Christopher
>>Thurtle. I dont feel like I have lost any of my identity, but
I dont
>
> I don't understand this. I can understand being happy
to see the
>new name, mostly because it is an outward symbol of the fact
that you're
>together for ever. But I don't understand why it makes you
proud.
>
> Am I missing something here? I can
>understand being happy to have one's husband's name, but not
proud.
Now that someone has said what I was thinking, I'll open my
mouth now. I too don't understand how I'd be "proud" of a new
married name. Appreciative, yes, happy about it, yes, proud of
my husband for his accomplishments, yes -- but I can't see how
simply taking a man's name is a matter of pride.
Well, actually, I can - in a sociological way...many women (more
so in former times) saw Mrs. and a shared last name (from the
husband's side!) as titles of which they were proud, because
they had achieved something important in their social circle --
marriage. And, for some, the actual family name (ie the
reputation) was something to be proud of too...you know, that
whole concept of marrying up/into your class, etc.
For me, getting married is not an accomplishment, not something
of which (unto itself) I am proud. It's no feat in my mind to
get married - it's the staying married and supporting each other
and being 'spouses' in the long run which I value. I don't see
how "Mrs. Whatever" is something to be proud of unto itself.
Interestingly, there's no equivalent for married men to indicate
their status, so our society in the past has not given men a new
title/name "to be proud of". That's probably because,
sociologically speaking, getting married wasn't financially
necessary, or a big achievement or whatever, for a man. In
fact, for many bachelors, having a family would mean less
material wealth and social rewards than being single (which
would preserve more of their income, and which would allow them
to apply themselves to their money-making ventures which would
again increase their power, money and prestige.).
Off my rant now.
BTW, I'm sure that my DH would say the same thing about his new
name. He likes being Mr. Warner, and is happy to be addressed
as such, but it's not something he's proud of. As he'd say, all
it took was a form and a payment for a name change with the
Registrar General -- something any Ontario resident over the age
of 18 can do! Not an achievement. Since getting married in
Ontario requires much of the same (application for a marriage
licence, a couple of vows and the payment of a fee), the same
reasoning would apply in his mind to 'getting married'. His
views on the value of a "successful marriage" are the same as
mine, as above.
--Barbara
--Barbara
>Kris
>
>
>
Need a little R&R?
Visit Alt.newlywed today!
My 'real' email address: barbara <at> ncf <dot> ca
Heidi Thurtle
>
> In article <392D2F...@frontiernet.net>,
> Heidi Thurtle <thu...@frontiernet.net> wrote:
> >
> >I feel the same way, Lynn. I am proud to be Mrs. Thurtle, and I even
> >get a little smile when I see things addressed to Mrs. Christopher
> >Thurtle. I dont feel like I have lost any of my identity, but I dont
>
> I don't understand this. I can understand being happy to see the
> new name, mostly because it is an outward symbol of the fact that you're
> together for ever. But I don't understand why it makes you proud.
>
> accomplishment? Or are you proud to have been picked by him? Personally,
> I am not proud for either of those reasons--I did not set out on a great
> quest to rope a man into marrying me, so the first doesn't really apply.
> And I don't like thinking that I'm just a piece of merchandice, so I'm not
> understand being happy to have one's husband's name, but not proud.
I am proud to marry him. That he chose me to spend his life with. That
I will be passing the name to our children.
I didnt set out to rope a man so to speak. I didnt think I would get
married for a long time. But I met Chris when I was young and fell in
love.
One of the biggest accomplishments of my life is getting married. I
plan to spend the rest of my life with this person. There are very few
things that ranks up there as important as getting married (to me at
least, others may take it more lightly). When I have children, I want
to present a united front to them, and to me, that means that we share
the same name, as well as ideals.
I am proud that he wants me to represent his family name. My family
name wasn't really part of my identity tho, so it may be different for
others.
Heidi =)
Megan
wrote:
but then again I might just have mucked up the snipping as usual!
>
>
>> I dated a guy whose last name was Barr. I could have hyphenated
>> and been Clark-Barr (which is a semi-popular candy bar here in
>> the US, in case anyone doesn't know :-)
>>
>> And I had a friend whose name was Manes (man-ess), married to a
>> Lucas. They joked they could combine them to Mucas (mucus).
>>
>> DH and I refer to ourselves as "the Clarksteins". It's caught on
>> and other people (including my parents!) now call us this too :-)
>
>I have a friend who's last name was Lucey. Her boyfriend in college's
>last name was Dziura (pronounced Jur-ah). They said that if they got
>married, they'd both change their names to Dziucy (Juicy). I thought
>that was hillarious!
>
>I did tell my FIL before we were married that we were both going to
>change our name to a combined one. He got this look of horror on his
>face, and I burst out laughing! It's very important to him that we have
>a son with his last name, if you know what I mean.
Its more difficult when one of your has a long name and one a short
one...
I've been thinking on it....
Fontgomery?
Marr? (Actually I like that one).
Ummmmm.....
Montgarr is pretty good...
Of course Farmery is just silly...
Megan
having a laugh...
Megan
wrote:
but then again I might just have mucked up the snipping as usual!
>
>contemplate
>> hyphenating but neither Larmour-Wilks nor Wilks-Larmour really have
>"the
>> right ring" to them.
>
>made my full name 36 characters long! Ugh!
I know that one.... Its bad enough having 19 (the reason I don't use
Farr at all).
Sheesh - its bad enough trying to get by with just the 15 of myfirst +
hislast...
My bank account is in the name of Megan Farr Montgomery and when I was
applying for a credit card the other day on-line (yep - did it,
welcome to the grown-up world Megan) it only gave me 20 characters
including spaces - 1 too few. So the direct debit will go to the bank
with Farr missing from the name.
That wasn't the only problem with their website - I had to "fool" it
into accepting foreign addresses as well... (two of the last 4 are in
Denmark).
Megan
Sarah
holly...@aol.com (HollyLewis) wrote:
> >Me too (well, Mrs. Larmour, not Mrs. Arngrimson :-))! I am still "a
Wilks"
> >even though that's not part of my official name any more.
> >
> >I like the feeling of having our last names be the same, it just
seems like
> >it's one more thing that unites us as a couple.
>
> But Vicky, your logic is flawed. I agree with you that it's nice
having the
> same name; DH and I really wanted to have a common "family name". Not
> important to everyone, to be sure, but it mattered to me.
>
> Nevertheless, the title "Mrs." is right out. It's sexist. Plain and
simple.
> It's a distinguishing term used only for women, for which there is no
parallel
> for men, which implies that a woman's -- but not a man's -- marital
status is
> such an important fact about her that one MUST indicate that fact in
every
> communication one has with her.
>
because
> it's traditional or they think it's romantic. Whatever. I happen to
find
> sexism offensive, always, so I get offended when people use the term
"Mrs."
> Especially people who ought to know better. Especially since there is
a
> perfectly acceptable, commonly used, non-sexist alternative readily
available.
There's a problem with your logic here, too. Let's say I choose to be a
stay-at-home mother. This is the "traditional" (and, by default,
sexist) role for a woman. Does doing so make me sexist? Feminism
should be about having the choice to either go the "traditional" route
or a more modern one....it should not be about eliminating the
traditional one entirely.
I can certainly understand your dislike for the title "Mrs." But to be
offended when people use it? Sure, if they use it in reference to you,
be as offended as you want. But there is no reason for you to be
offended if *I* choose to be referred to as Mrs. M rather than Ms. M
following my marriage. As an unmarried woman right now, I go by Miss S
when a title is necessary. Why? I like it better than Ms.
I guess I just don't see what all the hype is about titles. As far as I
am concerned, my title says no more and no less about my marital status
than the wedding ring on my left hand does. Once I'm married, I will
clearly be married to all who can see my hand, so my title is really
secondary.
Sarah
TracyZ
>I know that one.... Its bad enough having 19
Heh-heh. If I had chosen to hyphenate, my last name alone,
would have been 19 letters long. One saving grace would have
been that I don't have a middle name.
Some of our name combo options would have been:
Zassinger
Famborsky
Fassorsky
Zamsinger
Singerzam (sha-zamm!)
Tracy
Lynn A.
nnyL
Jocelyn wrote:
>
> Vicky Larmour <vicky....@camcon.co.nospam.uk> wrote:
>
> > This is fun... anyone else got any suggestions for hyphenated names or
> > combinations?
>
> You're welcome to try mine and DH's names - Gnirrep (me) and Reagan (him).
>
> Good luck. ;-)
>
J Peters
Naomi Gayle Rivkis wrote
>Jocelyn wrote:
> >Vicky Larmour wrote:
> >
> >> This is fun... anyone else got any suggestions for hyphenated names or
> >> combinations?
> >
> >You're welcome to try mine and DH's names - Gnirrep (me) and Reagan
(him).
> >
> >Good luck. ;-)
>
>
I thought of "Repgan".
The only combination of our names that makes any sense linguistically is
either "Petam" or "Lyters". Would you (generic) use either of those ;-).
Jean
Naomi Gayle Rivkis
>There's a problem with your logic here, too. Let's say I choose to be a
>stay-at-home mother. This is the "traditional" (and, by default,
>sexist) role for a woman. Does doing so make me sexist? Feminism
>should be about having the choice to either go the "traditional" route
>or a more modern one....it should not be about eliminating the
>traditional one entirely.
I'm not sure about this, at least as stated. Certainly a couple has
the right to decide how to manage their combined time and money,
including having one or the other of them stay home rather than work
for pay. (I'm at present a housewife myself, it's the way things are
working out.) I'm not sure I agree that feminism means properly that
the woman should have the choice in her own right, though -- it's
properly a joint decision. My mother, when she married my father, told
him in 1968 that she hoped he understood that she had a right to work
even after she was married. My father's answer was, "Like hell do you
have a 'right' to work. You have a RESPONSIBILITY to support yourself
like every other adult." She was highly annoyed until it penetrated
just what he was saying and then she laughed and was delighted. But it
was a fair point: a man doesn't usually get to decide without his
wife's permission that he feels like staying home all day an having
his wife support him. Why should a woman get to do the same thing? If
they decide *together* that they both prefer for one or the other to
stay home, that's fine, but it's not a woman's right to choose for
herself while a man needs permission.
Jocelyn
J Peters <jeanp...@ireland.com> wrote:
> I thought of "Repgan".
Hee hee - this is one we've never come up with! (DH & I have actually had
this discussion before, since we've been together so long our friends
already refer to us as a unit, and are always trying to come up something
less of a mouthful than the "Gnirrep/Reagans".)
>
> The only combination of our names that makes any sense linguistically is
> either "Petam" or "Lyters". Would you (generic) use either of those ;-).
I'd use either of these... but then *my* last name is "Gnirrep", so either
of those would be an improvement. ;-)
Jocelyn
RNR
<bewarner...@is2.dal.ca.invalid> wrote:
>Now that someone has said what I was thinking, I'll open my
>mouth now. I too don't understand how I'd be "proud" of a new
>married name.
Likewise, there is nothing to be proud about (in terms of
accomplishment, etc, as you listed) in being Ms Maidenname. Yet,
many women say they are proud of their family name and that's why
they keep it. In all fairness, that is a ridiculous claim just
as much as being proud of having one's husband's name.
Regards,
Ranee (reply to am...@teleport.com)
lalalalalalalalalalal
RNR
<thu...@frontiernet.net> wrote:
>One of the biggest accomplishments of my life is getting
>married. I plan to spend the rest of my life with this person.
>There are very few things that ranks up there as important as
>getting married (to me at least, others may take it more
>lightly).
I agree with you about marriage as an accomplishment. Ther eis
a great disdain for viewing marriage as a vocation. I actually
think that choices in marriage, raising of children are more
important than career choice, education, etc. All are important,
but the family actually is the structure of society and the
fabric of humanity.
Regards,
Ranee (reply to am...@teleport.com)
lalalalalalalalalala
* Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet's Discussion Network *
RNR
rc...@deja.com (Rebecca) wrote:
>We joke that if someday we have a son and give him MyLast, we
>should hand the phone to him when telemarkers call, especially
>if he is around two years old. "No-no, no-no, no-no, no-no,
>no!" *G*
I think that is a perfect solution! Too bad we all have the
same name here.
Regards,
Ranee (reply to am...@teleport.com)
lalalalalalalalalalalalal
RNR
<sara...@my-deja.com> wrote:
>In article <20000525143627...@ng-ch1.aol.com>,
> holly...@aol.com (HollyLewis) wrote:
>> But Vicky, your logic is flawed. I agree with you that it's
>>nice having the same name; DH and I really wanted to have a
>>common "family name". Not important to everyone, to be sure,
>>but it mattered to me.
>>
>> Nevertheless, the title "Mrs." is right out. It's sexist.
>>Plain and simple. It's a distinguishing term used only for
>>women, for which there is no parallel for men, which implies
>>that a woman's -- but not a man's -- marital status is such an
>>important fact about her that one MUST indicate that fact in
>>every communication one has with her.
>>
>> Some people seem to think that this particular form of sexism
>>is okay because it's traditional or they think it's romantic.
>>Whatever. I happen to find sexism offensive, always, so I get
>>offended when people use the term "Mrs." Especially people who
>>ought to know better. Especially since there is a perfectly
>>acceptable, commonly used, non-sexist alternative readily
>>available.
>
>There's a problem with your logic here, too. Let's say I choose
>to be a stay-at-home mother. This is the "traditional" (and, by
>default, sexist) role for a woman. Does doing so make me
>sexist? Feminism should be about having the choice to either
>go the "traditional" route or a more modern one....it should not
>be about eliminating the traditional one entirely.
It should be, but unfortunately there is an agenda to devalue
anything traditional, instead of just broadening and offering
more options to women. Trust me, if you do make the choice to
SAH, you WILL be castigated by people who think you are "wasting
you education," "wasting your life," "oppressed," and that's if
they think you're intelligent, otherwise you must be too "stupid
to know any better," "just a meaningless housewife," etc. That
isn't feminism. I don't have much love for the modern definition
of feminism because of agendas like this.
>I can certainly understand your dislike for the title "Mrs."
>But to be offended when people use it? Sure, if they use it in
>reference to you, be as offended as you want. But there is no
>reason for you to be offended if *I* choose to be referred to as
>Mrs. M rather than Ms. M following my marriage.
Sure there is. Didn't you know that if something isn't in line
with the liberal, PC viewpoint, that it must be oppressive,
hateful and offensive? That any free expression or speech that
might be guaranteed by a constitution is immediately called into
question or outright removed when that speech goes against the
liberal agenda? Not only that, but nobody has the right to
comment on the name choices of a woman who keeps her name, or
creates a new name, but everyone and their dog has the right to
question, or insinuate simple mindedness/oppression/inability to
see how she is being manipulated by the evil men who are trying
to keep women down a woman who changes her name to her
husband's.
Regards,
Ranee (reply to amira@tele
Naomi Gayle Rivkis
<amiraN...@teleport.com.invalid> wrote:
>In article <168b1f0a...@usw-ex0105-037.remarq.com>, Barbara
><bewarner...@is2.dal.ca.invalid> wrote:
>
>>Now that someone has said what I was thinking, I'll open my
>>mouth now. I too don't understand how I'd be "proud" of a new
>>married name.
>
> Likewise, there is nothing to be proud about (in terms of
>accomplishment, etc, as you listed) in being Ms Maidenname. Yet,
>many women say they are proud of their family name and that's why
>they keep it. In all fairness, that is a ridiculous claim just
>as much as being proud of having one's husband's name.
It depends. Pride in a name comes from what one makes of it; someone
who has already had a name for a long time has made more of it (good
and bad) than someone who has just acquired it. So I don't think
there's anything unreasonable in being proud to be Ms.
Nameyou'vehadallyourlife, it represents to everyone who has ever known
you everything you have done. If you're proud of what you've done,
you'll have reason to be proud of the name. Similarly, if you've been
Mrs. Nameyou'vehadfortwentyyearsofmarriage and lived with it and done
things while going by it, then that becomes a proud name as well,
based on what you've done. For a newlywed, though, who changes their
name, as or anyone who changes their name for any reason (and I've
done it twice now, neither one to do with getting married), the new
name holds potential but not achievement.
HollyLewis
>>There were a few times when Manny hinted that he wanted
>>something which did not involve clear and absolute equality within our
>>family. I told him no. On the very rare occasions when it mattered to
>>him enough to fight about, we fought about it, and we kept fighting
>>about it till I damned well won, because one of the things I am simply
>>not willing to do is in *ANY* trace of a way be subordinate to
Vicky responds:
>I've thought long and hard about this; I'm wondering if you can give some
>examples of what you mean? (Not necessarily personal ones, obviously, just
>examples!)
>
>I mean, in this respect, how do you "define" equality? Jonathan and I have
>similar jobs, but we work in different companies and we are paid different
>amounts. Does the fact that he earns (significantly) more than I do make me
>"subordinate" or "inferior" to him in that respect?
>
>In fact, I can't think of any examples where we are exactly equal. I do
>more household chores than he does; he does more DIY and gardening stuff
>than I do. He normally drives if we go on a long journey. I normally make
>the bookings for restaurants and holidays and theatres. I have more clothes
>and shoes than he does; he has more CDs than I do.
[clip]
I was going to respond to Naomi's post, but now Vicky has just said pretty much
what I wanted to say. :-)
I don't think it's possible for any two people to be absolutely equal all the
time in every respect, and I think it would make any two people very unhappy to
try.
Naomi, I also wanted to tell you that you are probably working from incomplete
information; I don't know if you ever saw Dianne's whole story. (I'm sorry if
I'm misspelling Dianne, I can't remember if it's one n or two.)
She originally thought she wanted to take her husband's name, and did so when
they got married. Only afterwards, she discovered she hated it, and after
giving it some time in case she just needed to get used to it, she found that
she was still really unhappy about it, so she changed it back.
Given that he preferred the traditional situation where everyone in the family
has the husband/father's surname, given that she agreed and then "reneged", I
can certainly see how it seems "fair" that she would agree that their HFCs
should still get his name. It would be different if she had said from the
beginning that she felt taking his name was sexist or that for any other reason
she would not do it, but that's not the case.
I also suspect that as far as the HFC's name, it's simply more important to him
than to her. And that it's one of the things on which she is willing to give a
little. On some other issue when they don't totally agree, he'll do it her
way, to please her, because it's more important to her than to him. And that
sounds perfectly "equal" to me.
Holly
HollyLewis
>decisions that are his to make and there are decisions tht are mine to
>make and there are decisions that are ours to make together. Anything
>that has to do with me personally, including my name, is wholly 100%
>mine to make, and IMO it is wrong for him even to possess an opinion
>on the subject.
Oh, I see. Well, I disagree. I think married people have a right to possess
an opinion about whether or not they should share a surname or not. I think
they even have a right to possess an opinion about what name that should be, if
in fact they prefer a shared family surname. There's simply too much cultural
weight behind the concept of a "family name" for it to be otherwise.
In the case of a serious disagreement on this point, your spouse certainly does
not have the right to go and change your name without your consent, but it's an
important enough issue that I would not marry someone who refused to seriously
consider my opinion, and the basis for it, on the matter.
>I was discussing specifically a case in which someone said that she
>didn't like the status quo but had made it the status quo because he
>did.
Well, again, sometimes you make a choice to do something you wouldn't otherwise
do or like, simply because it's more important to you to please your spouse
than it is to have your way on that particular matter. And I don't think
there's anything wrong with that -- in fact, I think such choices are a
necessary glue between a couple -- as long as both spouses are aware that's
what's happening, and as long as it isn't always the same spouse "giving in."
And once you've agreed to do something your spouse's way, I think you do lose
some "moral capital" if you later change your mind. And you should!
Especially if you never told him in the first place that you weren't so happy
about this but you were willing to do it for him. I'm not saying you shouldn't
be allowed to change your mind due to unanticipated effects, but that it does
give your spouse some grounds to feel hurt, and entitled to extra consideration
the next time one of these situations comes up.
Holly
HollyLewis
>>
>>Good luck. ;-)
>
>Gnirregan? :)
>
Nah. Reagnir.
Or go back to the story about how Gnirrep was some ancestor's variation on
Perring, and go with Perrigan.
Holly
HollyLewis
>combinations?
I'd love to see if any of you could come up with a good combination of Wait and
Lewis. We couldn't, which is why we ended up with McCroskey. :-)
I have a friend who told me about some friends of his who were discussing
hyphenation. Their names were Leite, pronounced "late", and Manville.
They declared that Leite-Manville sounded like a geologic period, and
Manville-Leite sounded like something a cricket would do. They were probably
going to go the patriarchal route. :-)
We have friends whose surnames were Schmidt and Emberling. She ultimately
decided to adopt his name (uses the whole shebang Schmidt Emberling
professionally) but we affectionately refer to them as the Schmemberlings. :-)
Holly
Barbara Elizabeth Warner
>
> In article <168b1f0a...@usw-ex0105-037.remarq.com>, Barbara
> <bewarner...@is2.dal.ca.invalid> wrote:
>
> >Now that someone has said what I was thinking, I'll open my
> >mouth now. I too don't understand how I'd be "proud" of a new
> >married name.
>
> Likewise, there is nothing to be proud about (in terms of
> accomplishment, etc, as you listed) in being Ms Maidenname. Yet,
> many women say they are proud of their family name and that's why
> they keep it. In all fairness, that is a ridiculous claim just
> as much as being proud of having one's husband's name.
>
>
I think I agree - atleast partially. I'm proud of my family name
personally because of the conneciton with my social-justice-fighting,
politically-active, in-the-minor-history-books father -- but I didn't do
anything to gain that pride (oh, other than manage to stay in the family
and not get myself 'kicked out' or something). But, that's not at all
why I kept it. I kept it because it's my name. I wasn't about to leave
it behind at the altar, that's all :-)
I think that pride in one's family, and closeness, and whatever else
makes a family worth outwardly belonging too, has little to do with
names, actually. We are much closer to my mother's family than my dad's,
and we don't share a common last name with any of those aunts, uncles or
cousins -- because of the name falling on the male side of families in
our circles (thus far).
Getting muddled and going to stop myself from rambling further,
-Barbara
HollyLewis
>the term they prefer to use? It's perfectly acceptable for you
>to insist that no one use "Mrs." when referring to you, but by
>denying others the right to use it - and by refusing to use it
>when it is their indicated preference, you are being just as
>guilty of sexism as those who insist YOU must use it.
>
>Karen
I may be guilty of sheer rudeness, but not of sexism.
It is sexist, by definition, to prefer the title "Mrs." for any married woman,
including oneself. That's my point. The very existence of the title "Mrs." is
an artifact of a sexist culture. I don't choose to comply with sexist
attitudes, regardless of whether that might be considered impolite.
(Fortunately, as a practical matter, it's not usually a problem for me because
nobody I know really prefers formal address anyway, so I just don't use titles
at all.)
Is it impolite to refuse to laugh at racist "jokes"? Sometimes it is. Does
that make it wrong? No.
Holly
Robin
> I was glancing at the W invite list and noticed that every couple
> where they shared a last name was addressed as Mr. and Mrs. LastName
Oh, there's a world of difference between "Mr. and Mrs. Lastname" and
"Mr. and Mrs. HisFirst HisLast"!
> (whereas if they didn't change names, it was Mr. HisLast and Ms.
> HerLast) To be honest that was the way I was raised; if they have the
> same last name, call her Mrs. LastName, if not, call her Ms. LastName.
> It wasn't until I came here that I realized there are people who
> changed their last name but detest "Mrs."
While I do detest "Mrs.", I don't fault people for getting it wrong the
first time, or even getting it wrong subsequent times if I fail to
correct them. Well, from a social standpoint. In business situations
is Seriously Pisses Me Off...my job offer for my current job was
addressed to "Mrs. Robin..." and yes, I did complain =)
--
There's no need to e-mail me a copy of a follow-up; but if you do,
please identify it as such.