Upgrade mouthpiece/ligature or get new clarinet
Marina
I am wondering whether it would be better to upgrade the mouthpiece and ligature
of my B-flat Corton clarinet or just buy something else.
I currently use a Selmer 211 mouthpiece (I think this is the mouthpiece that
comes with a Selmer model 211? - I can't find out anything about it and don't
know if it is any good).
I have been fairly happy with my Corton, it sounds a little rough (husky?)around
the register break (Bflat, B) but otherwise seems ok, although I haven't played
anything else (other than resin) to compare.
I would love to get a new clarinet but am not sure about the expense right now.
I was thinking that it might be better to invest in a good ligature and
mouthpiece (such as the Vandoren B45 and Optimum ligature - is this too high
end?) to get the best out of the Corton until such time as I can afford to get a
better clarinet. I figure that even if I upgrade the clarinet I can still use
the mouthpiece and ligature on the new one (if it doesn't come with something
better - which I should think it wouldn't).
Alternatively, the money I save from not buying a new mouthpiece and ligature
right now could be put towards a new clarinet meaning I might be able to get it
a bit sooner. I guess I would be looking at something new costing about $1000US
(although I am not sure what would be a good buy).
I have just started playing again after a long break (about 10 years) and would
like to study for my Grade exams with the Royal Conservatory (I am about a Grade
6). I already have a teacher (although I haven't discussed this issue with him
yet).
What do you think? Any suggestions would be most appreciated.
Marina
Stephen Howard
wrote:
Have you had your Corton thoroughly checked out?
This is an interesting question you pose in that there must surely
come a point where the limitations of an instrument overwhelm any
possible benefits that might be had from fitting aftermarket
accessories.
Obviously, any cheap mouthpiece is going to be outperformed by a
decent one - but then how decent can you go before the inherent flaws
in the instrument compromise the benefits the mouthpiece is designed
to give?
Similarly with advanced ligatures - could it be that their perceived
benefits are too subtle to be noticed on a cheap instrument...or that
any benefit is vastly disproportionate to the cost involved?
With regard to this particular problem my starting point would be the
instrument. If it's anything less than perfect mechanically then
there's little point in considering an accessory upgrade. As with all
student instruments, you can't get away with a little leak here and a
spot of wobbly action there - even more so on the Corton. Whilst these
instruments can play quite well they're not so good at compensating
for the odd discrepancy in the same way a more expensive instrument
can.
You might find too that the mouthpiece you already have is less than
ideal. I realise that Selmer is a respectable make, but who can say
whether an individual mouthpiece is any good or not ( it may have been
altered, or had a rough life, or just be plain bad! ).
Before you shell out lots of money on an expensive new mouthpiece,
compare the Selmer to a decent quality mid range piece.
Anything more expensive than that and you start to run into the laws
of economics.
In the UK a secondhand Corton clarinet will sell for about £100.
For about £180 or so you can pick up secondhand Boosey & Hawkes
clarinets ( wooden Regents, or perhaps even an Edgware ) - and a
Vandoren mouthpiece and a posh ligature will set you back about £100
on their own!
Far better to sell the Corton and buy a better secondhand instrument.
With regard to buying new clarinets in your price range you have a
reasonable choice. There's the Buffet E11, the Yamaha YCL34 - and my
current favourite, the Leblanc Sonata.
If you go the secondhand route you'll be in the next range up from
these models - at which point things get very interesting indeed!
Hope that helps.
Regards,
--
Stephen Howard - Woodwind repairs & period restorations
Emails to: shwoodwind{who is at}gmx{dot}co{dot}uk
Cups
Usually I don't suggest to change instrument if it is not really necessary
just because an instrument sounds good after many years of usage. I don't
know your Corton clarinet, however I tell you DO NOT SEEL IT to buy a newer
instrument.
Try to change your mouthpiece to get a better sound.
My suggestion is a Vandoren B45. (dot) to play classical music (it's medium
opened but you get a not so "wide" sound). You can choose also a Vandoren
B40 to get also a medium opened mouthpiece and use reeds from #2 to #3. B45.
is better if you use stronger reeds. (I like so)
To get a wider sound, try a Vandoren 5JB (I will get one for me next month.
I tried it and it sounds very good).
Vandoren optimum ligature is not so good as it should be reading the
catalogues. I prefer a cheaper plastic ligature made of a plastic and soft
strip with an unique screw. It lets your reed free to play.
Optimum ligature is, however, too expensive for what it really let you get
with your sound. You must try it before buy !!! I really dislike it...
Anyway, good luck
Matteo
Lelia Loban
>him
>>yet).
I think Stephen Howard's advice is excellent. Please do discuss your plans
with your teacher, too, since the teacher is familiar with your particular
equipment. The teacher has heard you play on your current setup and may think
of many things that would never occur to cyber-folks, since we can't hear you.
When you try out replacement instruments, see if you can arrange for your
teacher to try them, too, and listen to you playing on them. Being able to
discuss things "live" and show each other exactly what you're talking about is
a huge help. There's no substitute for a good pair of ears!
Lelia
Please delete TOSSPAM from my address to reply by e-mail.
Claying
just want to share my experience. I am playing a Buffet B12 clarinet and I changed
my mouthpiece (to Vandoren B45) and ligature (to Leblanc D.Bonade) instead of using
the original one 2 month ago. I found that the control and sound quality really
makes a difference! The cost of those is not that high and should be affordable. You
may go to music store and have a try and see the effect!
Aaron
Stephen Howard
>It depends on witch kind of music you play.
>Usually I don't suggest to change instrument if it is not really necessary
>just because an instrument sounds good after many years of usage. I don't
>know your Corton clarinet, however I tell you DO NOT SEEL IT to buy a newer
>instrument.
>
<snip>
Sorry to butt in here - but I think this is questionable advice at
best.
If you're not familiar with the Corton clarinet then how can you
justify the advice not to sell it?
The Corton occupies the niche at the lower end of the student range of
instruments. Its claim to fame is that it has a wooden body ( though
typically an ebonite bell ).
It's an extraordinarily cheap instrument, considering it has a wooden
body, and it's not unreasonable to ask where the corners have been cut
to allow it to be sold at such a price.
The short answer is 'everywhere'. The wood is very low grade, as is
the build quality - and the pitch and tone aren't up to much either.
Sure, they can be made to play - with a bit of tweaking - but you're
starting from a lower rung on the ladder than if you'd bought a decent
plastic clarinet.
A Corton with a professional quality mouthpiece will yield much the
same results as a Buffet B12 with an intermediate piece - and you'll
still have an upgrade path.
Marina
Just to add a little more,
my Corton isn't in great shape. It has been sitting in the case for 3 years
unused. Prior to that my step-daughter was playing it. We had it partially
re-padded and corked but I don't think they did a good job (mainly because one
pad fell off and had to be redone). I think it would probably need to be
checked over. I have just found out about a guy who lives about 300 miles away
who does repairs (www.pspriggs.com - The Clarinet Centre) which could be an
option.
The Corton is originally from England where it was bought for fifty pounds. I
broke the original mouthpiece (by dropping it) and the Selmer was a replacement.
I think for fifty pounds I have got my money's worth.
The Vandoren B45 sells for $80CDN and the optimum ligature $70CDN (both new).
That's about a $100US investment.
As for what I would consider as a replacement, I would like to go the secondhand
route, although it scares me as I don't want to buy another so-so instrument.
I have been lurking for a while and have heard that there can be a lot of
variety in Selmers and LeBlancs. So I thought I would probably look for a
Yamaha or a Buffet to be safe. If you have any suggestions of what to look for
(or avoid) that would be great. Or if you think a Selmer or LeBlanc would be
better please let me know.
I would like to spend no more than $1000US (that's $1500CDN and 666 pounds). I
have seen new Buffet E11 for $650US and Yamaha 34 for $568US. I would like to
perhaps go up to the next level but am not sure what it would be.
I am really not sure what I could get used in my price range.
Marina
In article <93mpnt8351ncmlgj8...@4ax.com>, Stephen Howard says...
Dee D. Hays
"Marina" <nos...@newsranger.com> wrote in message
news:pybf7.4961$2u.4...@www.newsranger.com...
>
> ... As for what I would consider as a replacement, I would like to go the
secondhand
> route, although it scares me as I don't want to buy another so-so
instrument.
>
> I have been lurking for a while and have heard that there can be a lot of
> variety in Selmers and LeBlancs. So I thought I would probably look for a
> Yamaha or a Buffet to be safe. If you have any suggestions of what to
look for
> (or avoid) that would be great. Or if you think a Selmer or LeBlanc would
be
> better please let me know.
Buffets and Yamahas have just as much variation as Selmers and Leblancs.
However these four makers are (except for some custom makers) the best
around. You should always try a horn before buying anyway to see if it is
to your liking.
Keep in mind that whatever you buy, new or used, you will almost certainly
need a better mouthpiece than whatever comes with it unless you get lucky
and someone else has already upgraded the mouthpiece.
Dee Hays
Michigan
Cups
>
> If you're not familiar with the Corton clarinet then how can you
> justify the advice not to sell it?
Right !
I wrote my advice because every time I sold an instrument, later I was sorry
about it !
I do not sell ANY instrument since years and I really trust in this way of
life. Maybe because I love instruments more than myself... ?!?!? :-)
This is just my opinion.
Remember, anyone may do whatever he wants.
And I say (now that you told me it's a very cheap clarinet) that I think
selling the Corton will bring a very little money in the pocket of the
seller, so why sell it ?
Sell the Corton to buy a pack of reeds ??? :-)
Maybe one day you will need to play with a fanfare outside in the rocky
mountains when it's snowing... sorry, but I prefer not to play in the cold
weather with a Buffet Crampon Festival.... and you ?
Once my Eb got a 4cm crack playing somewhere like written before... and that
wasn't cheap to repair !!!
You are right about buying a new clarinet, but I think that a better
mouthpiece will do some difference, anyway.
Last, please remember this was just my opinion: polemics are not useful to
nobody.
Greetings
Matteo
Marina
I agree that to sell it would be pointless. I would rather keep it as a spare
(Canada can be cold too!) or give it away to my neice or nephew.
I believe that a new mouthpiece would help the sound and might be a good
temporary measure until I can buy a new clarinet. It sounds like even the good
clarinets don't always come with a good mouthpiece so I would probably end up
buying another mouthpiece anyway. Might as well get it now, as I will get more
use out of it. Better start saving my pennies...
In article <3Scf7.689$i9.3...@news.infostrada.it>, Cups says...
William Boyack
I have been playing on and off for about two years, not as much as I would
like ! babies and all that stuff. I wholeheartedly agree with Stephen Howard
and his comments. I did a bit research and a lot of the popular ligatures do
not fit the vandoran v45. So to cut a long story short I tried the new
ligaphone ligature (dark) and found a great improvement in my tone. I
probably would have found a similar improvement buying an expensive
mouthpiece. However my finances did not allow this. This is just my
personnel experience to date.
Lots of info can be found on the john myatt web site
www.myatt.co.uk
Best of luck
Bill Boyack
Doug young fella tell me how you are doing
"Claying" <aa...@webcraft.com.hk> wrote in message
news:3B7D24CB...@webcraft.com.hk...
Stephen Howard
>
>>
>> If you're not familiar with the Corton clarinet then how can you
>> justify the advice not to sell it?
>
>Right !
>I wrote my advice because every time I sold an instrument, later I was sorry
>about it !
We've all done that, I'm sure - but rest assured, very few people
will ever regret selling a Corton clarinet.
>I do not sell ANY instrument since years and I really trust in this way of
>life. Maybe because I love instruments more than myself... ?!?!? :-)
>This is just my opinion.
>Remember, anyone may do whatever he wants.
Of course, but one assumes that people come here for good advice - and
I hope I give that. I at least hope that when someone asks me why I
give such-and-such advice I can point to a tangible reason.
>And I say (now that you told me it's a very cheap clarinet) that I think
>selling the Corton will bring a very little money in the pocket of the
>seller, so why sell it ?
>Sell the Corton to buy a pack of reeds ??? :-)
It'll nett about a half to two thirds the cost of a better student
instrument. I think that's a significant amount of money.
>Maybe one day you will need to play with a fanfare outside in the rocky
>mountains when it's snowing... sorry, but I prefer not to play in the cold
>weather with a Buffet Crampon Festival.... and you ?
My instruments will go anywhere - but just as I wouldn't wear shorts
and a T-shirt to visit the arctic I don't expect my instruments to
cope with extremes without due preparation.
>Once my Eb got a 4cm crack playing somewhere like written before... and that
>wasn't cheap to repair !!!
>
>You are right about buying a new clarinet, but I think that a better
>mouthpiece will do some difference, anyway.
Yes, it will - but there are times when the economics are borderline,
and in this case the balance tips in favour of a better instrument.
But at least now the poster has enough information to make an informed
decision - which is what this forum is all about.
>
>Last, please remember this was just my opinion: polemics are not useful to
>nobody.
Of course - and you're entitled to your opinion, but do bear in mind
that people may well act upon opinions expressed in this forum, and
that could prove to be both expensive and disappointing.
Stephen Howard
wrote:
>Thanks Stephen
>Just to add a little more,
>my Corton isn't in great shape. It has been sitting in the case for 3 years
>unused. Prior to that my step-daughter was playing it. We had it partially
>re-padded and corked but I don't think they did a good job (mainly because one
>pad fell off and had to be redone). I think it would probably need to be
>checked over. I have just found out about a guy who lives about 300 miles away
>who does repairs (www.pspriggs.com - The Clarinet Centre) which could be an
>option.
In that case any question of purchasing a new mouthpiece is academic
until you've had the instrument sorted out.
Woodwinds tend to sulk if left in their cases for any significant
length of time, and the pads are inclined to swell.
It's vital that you find someone capable of doing a thorough service
on it.
>
>The Corton is originally from England where it was bought for fifty pounds. I
>broke the original mouthpiece (by dropping it) and the Selmer was a replacement.
>I think for fifty pounds I have got my money's worth.
>
>The Vandoren B45 sells for $80CDN and the optimum ligature $70CDN (both new).
>That's about a $100US investment.
>
>As for what I would consider as a replacement, I would like to go the secondhand
>route, although it scares me as I don't want to buy another so-so instrument.
>
>I have been lurking for a while and have heard that there can be a lot of
>variety in Selmers and LeBlancs. So I thought I would probably look for a
>Yamaha or a Buffet to be safe. If you have any suggestions of what to look for
>(or avoid) that would be great. Or if you think a Selmer or LeBlanc would be
>better please let me know.
They all have their own little quirks - I think it's safest to assume
that almost no instrument bought new is going to be in 100% working
order ( sad to say - but true ). Your first stop after buying an
instrument should be your repairer - unless the shop has a policy of
setting their instruments up...properly!
Buy on feel and playability - any other problems can be sorted out
later, and all of the well-known makes in your price range will be
competent instruments.
>
>I would like to spend no more than $1000US (that's $1500CDN and 666 pounds). I
>have seen new Buffet E11 for $650US and Yamaha 34 for $568US. I would like to
>perhaps go up to the next level but am not sure what it would be.
Next up would be the Buffet E13, the Yamaha 64 and the Leblanc Esprit.
You might also find the Selmer Prologue comes into your price bracket.
Cups
> Of course - and you're entitled to your opinion, but do bear in mind
> that people may well act upon opinions expressed in this forum, and
> that could prove to be both expensive and disappointing.
Allright, I'll follow your advice.
This ng has been made to let people write their opinions. So, I will accept
them.
Hope anybody will do the same.
Now, after our messages, I know even the Corton clarinet.... :-)
Hope to "read" you soon.
Matteo
JJC
> >I wrote my advice because every time I sold an instrument, later I was
sorry
> >about it !
>
> We've all done that, I'm sure - but rest assured, very few people
> will ever regret selling a Corton clarinet.
This reminds me of when I was in college in NYC back in the early '80s. I
was literally a poor college student (having spent my summer earnings by
March and making just $50/week in work study. I considered selling my old
Buffet R13 (c.1964) that I had not played for two years since high school.
I brought it down to "music row" in the 40's between 5th and 6th Aves. I
asked a couple of shops how much they would buy it for. I got offers of
$100-150 from three shops. I decided to keep the horn, since my parents had
paid $300 for it in the seventh grade. I'm sure glad I decided to keep it,
since it is surely worth many times that in a sale, but worth more to me
personally since I started playing again a couple years ago - something I
would not have done if I didn't still have the horn.
JJC
Christina Herndon
Well I guess this is a very stupid question, but here it is. I need to
knnow if you can replace the corks on the clarinet. I found it at a flee
market. I checked it over but I didn't see that till I reached my car. I
just need to know if I took it to a repair shop if they can be replaced in
any way. It is playable and it sounds nice, but since the corks are so dry
that they are litterily comming off it makes it a little hard for me.
Please write back no spam please
thanks
self taught clarinet playernews:WvWe7.3884$2u.4...@www.newsranger.com...
Stephen Howard
wrote:
> cork replacement
>Well I guess this is a very stupid question, but here it is. I need to
>knnow if you can replace the corks on the clarinet. I found it at a flee
>market. I checked it over but I didn't see that till I reached my car. I
>just need to know if I took it to a repair shop if they can be replaced in
>any way. It is playable and it sounds nice, but since the corks are so dry
>that they are litterily comming off it makes it a little hard for me.
Replacing corks on a clarinet is a standard repair job.
However, if it's got to the stage where corks are dropping off then
there's a good chance there will be other things wrong with it.
Any competent repairer will be happy to advise.
Stephen Shotton
Your idea obout the Vandoran mouthpiece and Optimum ligature is a goog one -
you will be suprised at the improvement you will get on your Corton
clarinet, you can always upgrade the instrument in the future.
Regards,
Steve Shotton
Marina wrote in message ...