Didn't Grof die before you claim to have met him?
In article <18631-4AF...@storefull-3111.bay.webtv.net>,
Miguel Alberto <gell...@webtv.net> wrote:
>Asthmatics would get an "organic psychosis" from the holotropic breathing
>of struggling to breathe, and [this] disease was called "shamans'
>disease" behind the Iron Curtain, but in the superstitious countries it
>was secretly considered to be "witchcraft", but was tagged
>"schizophrenia".
Thanks for your posts.
My. "Prove the truth". Prove to whom? Yourself? Or others?
> The organization whose name he didn't capitalize, probably to
> avoid law suit,
I can see your notion of law is pretty much fantasy.
> is the big problem in America, and THEY plan to replace
> America, and our Constitution, with the North American Union, just to
> save their secrets.
Republicans? Unions? Reptilians? Goldman-Sachs? Elders of Zion?
The Illuminati? Exxon?
> I have the experiences and then I try to find
> theories to explain these experiences.
The theories you are drawn towards to explain your experiences are
ones that seem to offer global explanations, so you end up thinking
there is just one overarching nemesis that is behind everything that
you can't understand and explain as individual experiences. These
global theories make everything simpler for a while, but ultimately
they just hold you back. Instead of trawling for global theories and
explanations for your experiences, why not try and understand them in
more detail as individual and unconnected events that have happened to
you. Eventually some type of global map will naturally emerge from a
set of different experiences, but if you try and grasp at one too
early, what happens is that you end up trying to fit in everyting that
has happened to you into this global map and because it isn't one that
has emerged naturally from your experiences it just won't fit. It
just won't work for you or be of any use.
Does that make sense to you?
Oh, those old bugaboos.
> I have the experiences and then I try to find
> theories to explain these experiences.
There's more to reality testing than coming up with explanations to
account for your feelings.
> There'd be no fuss if they
> weren't suppressed information.
Information can be correct or incorrect. The lack of popularity of
certain beliefs is not necessarily a sign that nefarious forces have
conspired to suppress them. Sometimes, it's just that the beliefs are
silly.
> When the Communist Block countries found out that these things
> were seriously suppressed they challenged them, and they weren't
> touched, here.
The collapse of the Warsaw Pact was not simply a matter of challenged
beliefs in "suppressed information". It was because that they ran out
of money to keep it going.
From: http://www.world-mysteries.com/newgw/gw_rmd1.htm
by Wayne McDonald
"Successful conspiracy theories are those that to some degree empower
the believer against what are perceived as external forces that he/she
blames for some unpleasant or undesirable facet of their lives. In
addition conspiracy theories serve to absolve the individual of some
degree of self-accountability since, if the individual is being
“oppressed” by some powerful conspiracy, the individual’s efforts at
self-advancement will always be futile and thus become nothing more
than “a waste of time.”
ps - When I talk about a 'global' theory or explanation, I'm not
talking about a 'world' theory. :)
Would you mind telling me more about this specific incident please?
Where were you and how did you end up in an interrogation chair? Does
the memory of the experience seem to have a dream like quality or is
your recall the exactly the same as mundane and ordinary memories you
are pretty sure happened? What did the chair look like? (I've never
seen an interrogration chair). If you were restrained then what did
the restraints look like?
I just have a hunch that if you pull back from making judgements and
conclusions about this, and just describe the sensory data you recall,
then you'll end up with a better understanding of what happen to you.
I'm reminded of the conversation between the two retired superheroes
in "The Incredibles".
Lucius: [Bob and Lucius are sitting in a parked car, reminiscing] So
now I'm in deep trouble. I mean, one more jolt of this death ray and
I'm an epitaph. Somehow I manage to find cover and what does Baron von
Ruthless do?
Bob: [laughing] He starts monologuing.
Lucius: He starts monologuing! He starts like, this prepared speech
about how *feeble* I am compared to him, how *inevitable* my defeat
is, how *the world* *will soon* *be his*, yadda yadda yadda.
Bob: Yammering.
Lucius: Yammering! I mean, the guy has me on a platter and he won't
shut up!
Monologuing. It's what all the super-villians do.
"Now that I have you helpless, Mr. Bond, let me reveal to you all my
secret plans and then walk away so you'll have time to escape and foil
them."
> And, just like Mel Gibson in the relatively recent movie,
> "Conspiracy Theory"
Yup, just like that. Entirely fictional and badly written.
Why were you being interrogated? Was it a training exercise in anti-
interrogation techniques? *most likely* Did you give them any cause
at the time to think you might be a sympathiser or collaborater with
'the enemy'? *far far less likely*
> Detectives finally found out that I wrote the term paper that
> revealed the most sensitive freemasonic secrets.
You probably told them that yourself as they were breaking you down.
In the after-shock of interrogation, your small confession about
writing a term paper over masonic secrets was probably distorted in
importance. As a young man writing a paper on masonry you may have
felt a bit of a thrill? Maybe a bit of fear also? And these were
amplified as you were interrogated. These 'secrets' are actually
pretty well known, and I doubt the army gave a shit about them.
> Also, the interrogators repeatedly asked me, "Where is your
> shekina? Where is your Shekina?" And, I repeatedly answered, "What is a
> shekina?"
Perhaps muslim terrorists who have captured soldiers and interrogated
them in the past, have assumed they were Jewish? Maybe that's why this
type of questioning was directed at you. A Shekina is just the jewish
version of a female god.
To break a person down and make them compliant, you have to attack and
undermine thier belief systems. That's part and parcel of anti-
interrogation training. Perhaps you were being tested for promotion?
If you had a strong emotional reaction to freemasonary then they would
have focused on that. If you thought that aliens were probably
wandering the earth like secret hobo's then they would have used
that. They would have used anything to break down the walls in your
mind - including presenting you with plausable but false material on
something fantasic like Ufo's, documents perporting to be from a one
world order, various religious 'secrets' and giving you LSD and other
drugs (which if you were captured would certainly have happened to
you).
The reason I'm thinking you were being tested, is that you're a
reasonably intelligent guy, certainly imaginative and very curious,
and I'm guessing you have a strong sense of responsibility that's part
and parcel of your character. Intelligence and imagination is useful
in officers but the drawbacks are that they are more easily broken
down in interrogation. Everyone breaks during interrogation sooner or
later though, so try not to hang on to bad feelings about that. You
should give yourself a break and forgive yourself. You didn't fail.
Whatever happened in that room was pure bullshit. Don't let what
happened in that room make bullshit of the rest of your life. Try and
put it behind you now. Put the bullshit back in the box (leave it in
the room in the past) and walk away. There's really no point in
hanging onto it, is there?
> Whatever happened in that room was pure bullshit. Don't let what
> happened in that room make bullshit of the rest of your life. Try and
> put it behind you now. Put the bullshit back in the box (leave it in
> the room in the past) and walk away. There's really no point in
> hanging onto it, is there?
Actually - I've reconsidered my position on that.
Anyone who has went through a terrible experience like this can learn
a great deal from it, much of which can be made into positive
strengths in everyday life, if they can be safely placed into
perspective...
> The feeling here was never fear, or whatever else has been
> imagined. The feeling here is hate! This is the most intense gut hatred
> in American history!
Well - better out than kept in. Like farting.
Thanks for being so honest about your feelings.
Hate is a really horrible feeling isn't it? It plays havick with your
digestion for a start. And hate has an obsessive quality to it. I
take it you would rather not feel this hate?
What will it take to make this hate go away do you think?
You know... I sometimes think the difference between the purely
enlightened and the pure psychopath is love.
And destroys you all the more quickly.
ILLUMINATI
-- To the tune of "Eleanor Rigby"
11-07-88
Steve Jackson, Joe Vail, Creede Lambard
Illuminati...
They put a thing made of tinfoil on top of my door...
What is it for?
Illuminati...
Shooting a ray at my cornflakes to make them turn green...
What does it mean?
The Illuminati... They're watching me, I know.
The Illuminati... They're everywhere I go.
Illuminati...
Doing unspeakable things in the night to a cow...
Where are they now?
Illuminati...
Sent an impostor in place of the Popsicle man...
What is their plan?
The Illuminati... They're watching me, I know.
The Illuminati... They're everywhere I go.
Illuminati...
They cancelled Star Trek, The Fonz, and My Mother, the Car...
Are they bizarre?
You can't escape them;
Even if you take a plane to Nepal or Peru...
They'll be there, too...
The Illuminati... They're watching me, I know.
The Illuminati... They're everywhere I go.
I know that they know all about me...
They know that I know all about them...
Illuminati...
Hide their assassins' instructions in newspaper text...
Who will be next?
They're all around us...
Underline every third word in the Times and you'll see...
How can it be?
The Illuminati... They're watching me, I know.
The Illuminati... They're everywhere I go.
They're in the attic and the cellar...
Bigger than Hunt or Rockefeller...
Illuminati...
Go through my garbage and count all the pop bottles there...
Why do they care?
They're out to get me...
They're fluoridating my water from their UFO...
What do they know?
The Illuminati... They're everywhere, I see.
The Illuminati... And no one knows but me.