Master Code Book

[Adam B. Lancaster]

Hey guys I am new to the Lock Smithing trade and am in need of a Master
combination Code Book. Specifically the one that translates a serial number
to combination.

Any and all help will be appreciated!

Brian

["Keyman"]

"Adam B. Lancaster" <bria...@cox.net> wrote in message
news:iaVVa.27707$o54.1810@lakeread05...

check with you're supplier ..
they should be able to send you one...

--
"Key"

[Bob DeWeese, CML]

It should be in you regular code books or software.

Just out of curiosity, why specifically "master lock combinations"? In
twenty two years, I've probably had to look them up less than ten times.
They're not that expensive. People usually just throw them away and by new
ones.

BTW - "Locksmithing" is one word. Hope you didn't spell it like that ("Lock
Smithing") in your advertising.

--
Bob DeWeese, CML
bo...@bearlock.com
www.bearlock.com
www.edgemerebiblechurch.org

Bear Lock & Security Service, Inc - A full service locksmith company
specializing in professional, cost effective solutions to your
Commercial, Residential, Safe, and Automotive Security Problems.

<>< Humble yourselves, therefore, under God's mighty hand, that he may
lift you up in due time. Cast all your anxiety on him because he cares
for you. 1 Peter 5:6-7

"Adam B. Lancaster" <bria...@cox.net> wrote in message
news:iaVVa.27707$o54.1810@lakeread05...

[Glen Cooper]

Because he's a kid looking for his neighbors combo.

"Bob DeWeese, CML" <bear...@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:z5%Va.13831$kL2...@nwrddc01.gnilink.net...

[Bob DeWeese, CML]

"Glen Cooper" <g.e.c...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:LN0Wa.77823$3o3.5...@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...

> Because he's a kid looking for his neighbors combo.
>

Yeah, Glen. That was pretty much my take on it.

Bobby

[Adam B. Lancaster]

I'm not a kid, but am a amateur locksmith/in training and looking to buy all
the supplies that I need. I know NO ONE that wants to teach me... And my
local community college doesn't offer any classes in the trade. So please
don't take offense to a question to locate materials to achieve my goal.

I understand that the trade is somewhat a secretive society that doesn't
want there valuable information sitting for the average person to view. Or
else they would be out a job.

So unless you have anything good to add please do not respond.

"Glen Cooper" <g.e.c...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:LN0Wa.77823$3o3.5...@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...

[Bob DeWeese, CML]

"Adam B. Lancaster" <bria...@cox.net> wrote in message

news:_I9Wa.17$5f.5@lakeread05...

> I'm not a kid, but am a amateur locksmith/in training

Okay, I'll take this one...

When you say "amateur" what exactly do you mean? How long have you been
doing it and what do you know, so far?

When you say" "in training", what sort of training have you already had and
what was the source of it?

> and looking to buy all the supplies that I need.

What are your current sources?

> I know NO ONE that wants to teach me... And my
> local community college doesn't offer any classes in the trade.

Where are you located? Is there a *local* locksmith's association around
you? Have you considered a correspondence course?

> So please don't take offense to a question to locate materials to achieve
my goal.

No offense taken. It's just that you showed up here and right off the bat,
are looking of help in attaining _by-pass_ information. Had you read the
FAQ, or even lurked for a little while, you'd know that was an invitation
for the responses you'll get.

If you are, as you say, an "amateur / in training" one would assume that
you'd already have some sort of supplier. If on the other hand, you are
just starting, that's neither considered and amateur or in training. Those
two descriptions would tend to mean that you already have some knowledge of
the profession and have been doing it for at least a little while. And
therefore would already have some sort of supply line.

>
> I understand that the trade is somewhat a secretive society that doesn't
> want there valuable information sitting for the average person to view.

And why do you think that is? Let's say for example you have... oh,
idono.... a master combination padlock... on the shed where you keep all
your lawn equipment. How would you like it if your neighbor's kid showed up
here one day looking for the combination to it. Unless we know you better
(from posting here for a while) how would we know you're not that kid?

> Or else they would be out a job.

Hardly. If you really think that, why would you want to enter this
profession?

I'll tell you how to install a deadbolt. I'll tell you how to repair the
lock on your front door. I'll tell you what's the best access control
system for your particular needs. I'll even tell you how to install it.
I'll tell you how to replace a lock on your car. I'll tell you and teach
you anything *that doesn't involve by-pass methods*.

Do you really think telling someone how to pick a lock, or giving them
access to codes is going to put me out of a job? For the record... By-pass
is a _very_ small part of what locksmiths do.

>
> So unless you have anything good to add please do not respond.
>

In other words.... "If you won't tell me what I want to know, keep your
mouth shut"? That's not a very good attitude for someone looking for help.
If you want help (especially for free) accept it on the terms dictated by
those who are willing to help you.

That all being said, what say we start over? Stick around. Participate.
Learn. Share. Ask some questions not involving circuventional information
for a while - till people get to know you and are comfortable answering them
(privately). Do that and I guarantee, you'll get a better response.

Bobby

["Keyman"]

"Glen Cooper" <g.e.c...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:LN0Wa.77823$3o3.5...@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...

> Because he's a kid looking for his neighbors combo.
>

Probably !!
---
"Key"
---snip---

["Keyman"]

"Adam B. Lancaster" <bria...@cox.net> wrote in message

news:_I9Wa.17$5f.5@lakeread05...

> I'm not a kid, but am a amateur locksmith/in training and
looking to buy all
> the supplies that I need. I know NO ONE that wants to
teach me... And my
> local community college doesn't offer any classes in the
trade. So please
> don't take offense to a question to locate materials to
achieve my goal.

then you should have made yourself clear the first time!

> I understand that the trade is somewhat a secretive
society that doesn't
> want there valuable information sitting for the average
person to view. Or
> else they would be out a job.

wrong !

> So unless you have anything good to add please do not
respond.

if you don't want to see a responce ?
simply don't post you're insight.

no real flame intended
my2¢
----
Keyman

["Keyman"]

"Bob DeWeese, CML" <bear...@verizon.net> wrote in message

news:ofaWa.16636$kL2....@nwrddc01.gnilink.net...

good responce Bobby...
i'll second that !!!
:-)
--
"Key"

---snip---

[Putyourspamhere]

>Subject: Master Code Book
>From: "Adam B. Lancaster" bria...@cox.net
>Date: 7/30/2003 3:39 PM Eastern Daylight Time
>Message-id: <iaVVa.27707$o54.1810@lakeread05>

You can get that from virtually any locksmith supply house. However alone and
of itself it is not worth the money. You will never look up enough codes to pay
for it. Also the locks are easily opened by another method w/o damage and if
the customer really wishes the combo it can easily be obtained with the lock
open. The master code info is however part of most code programs. So you will
most likely get it that way since a comprehensive code program is virtually a
nessesity anyway. Note that it will not include most institutional i.e. school
etc. locks no matter how you get it.

[Putyourspamhere]

>Subject: Re: Master Code Book

>From: "Adam B. Lancaster" bria...@cox.net

>Date: 7/31/2003 10:29 AM Eastern Daylight Time
>Message-id: <_I9Wa.17$5f.5@lakeread05>

>
>I'm not a kid, but am a amateur locksmith/in training and looking to buy all
>the supplies that I need. I know NO ONE that wants to teach me... And my
>local community college doesn't offer any classes in the trade. So please
>don't take offense to a question to locate materials to achieve my goal.
>
>I understand that the trade is somewhat a secretive society that doesn't
>want there valuable information sitting for the average person to view. Or
>else they would be out a job.
>
>So unless you have anything good to add please do not respond.
>
>

If you really must have the serial number lookup information make sure it is
part of whatever comprehensive code program or manuals you buy. That's the only
economical way to get it. As I mentioned before keep in mind that it will not
include virtually any institutional locks. Only locks sold through normal
retail chanels to the general public.

[Glen Cooper]

""Keyman"" <M...@Ya.net> wrote in message
news:wpfWa.141576$xg5....@twister.austin.rr.com...

I've been locksmithing since 99. I've never used my CodeSorce to find a
code for a Master lock. I use it for car keys and filing cabnets and bank
bags. He is a kid who doesn't know squat.

PLOOOOONK!@!!!!!@!!!!!!!!

["Keyman"]

"Glen Cooper" <g.e.c...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message

news:LRlWa.79374$3o3.5...@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...

Glen,
hold up on the "PLOOOOONK" for a few.
after reading a few of his responses.
maybe he just don't know how to word his questions ?

time will tell !!!
--
"Key"

[Wayne's Locks]

A little attitude.... Wayne

"Adam B. Lancaster" <bria...@cox.net> wrote in message

news:_I9Wa.17$5f.5@lakeread05...

[Glen Cooper]

OK Man

""Keyman"" <M...@Ya.net> wrote in message

news:QkmWa.135385$hV.90...@twister.austin.rr.com...

[mke...@mygary1st.com]

I respect the fact you recognize anyone could stroll in and request the info and have alterior motives to obtaining. But for me this was a chore. I'm not tech saavy. I call myself TechnoBozo, trying to join this millenium. I fail regularly.
My personal reason, I'm tight, cheap, but the other side of the coin is I'm not wasteful either. Which led me to attempt to unlock my son's friend's (16 yrs old) abandoned Combo Master Lock. He is 16. He believes he remembers 2 of the numbers. If someone here can help me, I would appreciate it. If not I guess I could go to Walgreens or others who sell this type and request help to call the 800 # to assist me on my behalf. I'm hoping either your help or theirs works, cuz I don't have the patience, equipment, or knowledge to download a form and then wait 4-6 weeks. I have this silly lock just hanging on my little finger as I use my phone to speak my request. I could take a pic and show you its not attached to anything.I really don't use email as a process, but if I have to, I will. Better though, I could give my number I suppose and if anyone would like me to verify, that's okay by me, too. Where there's a will, there's a way. Sorry, I guess my eccentricityis showing. Thank you. (219) 577-6763. (M. Kerby)

[Jay Hennigan]

On 4/21/14 2:31 PM, mke...@mygary1st.com wrote:
> I respect the fact you recognize anyone could stroll in and request the info and have alterior motives to obtaining. But for me this was a chore. I'm not tech saavy. I call myself TechnoBozo, trying to join this millenium. I fail regularly.

Is there a number stamped or printed on the back of the lock? If so,
what's the number?

> My personal reason, I'm tight, cheap, but the other side of the coin is I'm not wasteful either. Which led me to attempt to unlock my son's friend's (16 yrs old) abandoned Combo Master Lock. He is 16. He believes he remembers 2 of the numbers. If someone here can help me, I would appreciate it. If not I guess I could go to Walgreens or others who sell this type and request help to call the 800 # to assist me on my behalf. I'm hoping either your help or theirs works, cuz I don't have the patience, equipment, or knowledge to download a form and then wait 4-6 weeks. I have this silly lock just hanging on my little finger as I use my phone to speak my request. I could take a pic and show you its not attached to anything.I really don't use email as a process, but if I have to, I will. Better though, I could give my number I suppose and if anyone would like me to verify, that's okay by me, too. Where there's a will, there's a way. Sorry, I guess my eccentricityis showing. Thank you. (219)
577-6763. (M. Kerby)

What are the two numbers you think you remember?

[homepc]

On 21/04/2014 10:08 PM, Jay Hennigan wrote:

>
> What are the two numbers you think you remember?
>

New Post -- old request


I originally wrote to this group a couple of years ago trying to find
the combination to a master lock attached to a pannier bag loop of my
bicycle. It's still there and I don't want to cut into my pannier bag
to remove it. Could you supply the combination?

Below is my original post.

Thank you for your help -- Nash


homepc
11/05/2012
I've lost the combination to my bicycle lock, it's been in the basement
for a few years and it's attached to a really nice panier loop that I
don't want to destroy while trying to remove the lock.

It's a plain stainless steel Master # 904416 combination lock. I
remember registering it on the Master web site but I lost the pass
information to that too. I tried using all my email addresses for a
reset but that didn't work either. I'm lucky to see the lock number,
thank god for the camera zoom lens!

Can anyone help with possible hints?

[Jay Hennigan]

On 6/7/14 1:25 PM, homepc wrote:

> New Post -- old request
>
> I originally wrote to this group a couple of years ago trying to find
> the combination to a master lock attached to a pannier bag loop of my
> bicycle. It's still there and I don't want to cut into my pannier bag
> to remove it. Could you supply the combination?

Replied by email, all done.

[J.B. Wood]

On 06/07/2014 04:25 PM, homepc wrote:
> I've lost the combination to my bicycle lock, it's been in the basement
> for a few years and it's attached to a really nice panier loop that I
> don't want to destroy while trying to remove the lock.
>
> It's a plain stainless steel Master # 904416 combination lock. I
> remember registering it on the Master web site but I lost the pass
> information to that too. I tried using all my email addresses for a
> reset but that didn't work either. I'm lucky to see the lock number,
> thank god for the camera zoom lens!
>
> Can anyone help with possible hints?
>

Oh, for crying out loud. Get a pair of bolt cutters and cut off that
$5.00 lock. Why waste more time and money? (OK, so you may have to buy
the bolt cutters but they're a useful addition to the tool box IMO.)
Sincerely,

--


--
J. B. Wood e-mail: arl_1...@hotmail.com

[jakede...@gmail.com]

hi I am wonder if u can get me the combination for a master lock The serial number is 902715 if u get this message email me back at jakede...@gmail.com

[Stormin Mormon]

u get this message email me back at jakedeega
ny...@gmail.com
>

Please attend a remedial English class. Try again
when you can punctuate and spell correctly. Or
after you graduate from public school, as the
case may be.


As to the combination, contact a locksmith near
you, and expect to provide proof of ownership.

--
.
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
.

[peterwn]

Unless you are established in the trade there are some items you are just not going to get. I would dearly love to obtain restricted keyway plugs and blanks, but I accept there is no way I am going to be able to buy these items. Conversely if I relied on such items for my security, I would be pretty mad if someone could get blanks or keys through the back door (eg a young sales assistant in a locksmiths shop who sold forestry gate keys for $100 each - when found out, the locksmith had to re-key all the padlocks at his cost).

[J.B. Wood]

On 09/08/2014 09:01 PM, peterwn wrote:

> Unless you are established in the trade there are some items you are
> just not going to get. I would dearly love to obtain restricted
> keyway plugs and blanks, but I accept there is no way I am going to
> be able to buy these items. Conversely if I relied on such items for
> my security, I would be pretty mad if someone could get blanks or
> keys through the back door (eg a young sales assistant in a
> locksmiths shop who sold forestry gate keys for $100 each - when
> found out, the locksmith had to re-key all the padlocks at his
> cost).
>

Hello, and there is absolutely nothing in this world that can't be
obtained if you're persistent enough, know where to go, willing to pay
the price and refuse to take "no" for an answer (just ask Donald Trump).
So if you desire proprietary locksmith trade items this ng is not the
place to inquire. And if you do get the stuff FGS keep your mouth shut
and your bragging rights to yourself. (BTW, I never said all this was
legal) Sincerely,

[Stormin Mormon]

On 9/8/2014 9:01 PM, peterwn wrote:
>
> Unless you are established in the trade there are
some items you are just not going to get. I would
dearly love to obtain restricted keyway plugs and
blanks, but I accept there is no way I am going to
be able to buy these items. Conversely if I relied
on such items for my security, I would be pretty mad
if someone could get blanks or keys through the back
door (eg a young sales assistant in a locksmiths shop
who sold forestry gate keys for $100 each - when found
out, the locksmith had to re-key all the padlocks at
his cost).
>

I've also had trouble getting some keys or blanks.
It doesn't offend me, the end user can often get them
from the factory, and I can cut them and put them into
use.

I'm encouraged that the companies do protect the
customers.

[jacks...@live.com]

I need help cause i can't open my lock

[Stormin Mormon]

On 1/24/2015 6:17 PM, jacks...@live.com wrote:
> I need help cause i can't open my lock
>

You might call a locksmith.


-
.
Christopher A. Young
learn more about Jesus
. www.lds.org
.
.

[Jay Hennigan]

On 1/24/15 15:17, jacks...@live.com wrote:
> I need help cause i can't open my lock
>

What kind of lock, what numbers are on it?

[edmobi...@gmail.com]

4215M

[gregg...@gmail.com]

On Wednesday, July 30, 2003 at 12:39:56 PM UTC-7, Adam B. Lancaster wrote:
> Hey guys I am new to the Lock Smithing trade and am in need of a Master
> combination Code Book. Specifically the one that translates a serial number
> to combination.
>
> Any and all help will be appreciated!
>
> Brian

Some code books are useless and mostly expensive to really get a return on your investment. Whenever I get a Master Combination Padlock, they go into a plastic bin until there is quite a few of them. When I have some spare time after I've restocked my shelves, did my bookkeeping, cleaned up my tools, etc., I'll sit down with my bin of Master Padlocks and "Shim" them open (uses two of them at a time), then (with a pin-hole light) I look into the open hole where the shackle is out of the way and spin the dial looking for the openings on each disk noting where the dial stops in each direction. After getting all three numbers, I advance or decrease the numbers until I find the "Center Numbers" to open the shackle again. Write the combo on sticky paper attaching them to each combo lock. When I come across someone who needs a Master Combo Padlock, I offer them the used ones in exchange for their old ones. It's faster service and they always go for it. This cycle usually goes on for about three years each time. Invest in the Padlock Shims, it's cheaper and much more cost-effective in your time and inventory. You'll figure it out as you go along. Just view it as FUN to pass some time and continue to enjoy your Locksmith jobs.

[J.B. Wood]

Are you referring to MasterLock products such as the 1500/1502 series
(that like Duracell brand batteries are available just about
everywhere)? Why go to all that trouble for a $5.00 padlock? Besides
these locks can easily be cut off even with dull bolt cutters. I
certainly would encourage their recycling and avoidance of landfills.

[seecee...@gmail.com]

Can u give me the combination to lock serial number 8000284

[TimR]

On Monday, April 17, 2017 at 11:48:53 AM UTC-4, seecee...@gmail.com wrote:
> Can u give me the combination to lock serial number 8000284

27R, 4L, 12R

[rvrey...@gmail.com]

Any chance of getting the combination to an old masterlock sphero lock my son used on his locker last year and we cannot locate the combination anywhere. Its not attatched to anything and I could send a picture and send it to someone to prove that. I have the serial number- 8000164
Any help would be appreciated so I do not have to go buy this kid a new lock. TIA

[Skipfromla]

On Tue, 8 Aug 2017 13:37:59 -0700 (PDT), rvrey...@gmail.com wrote:

>Any chance of getting the combination to an old masterlock sphero lock my son used on his locker last year and we cannot locate the combination anywhere. Its not attatched to anything and I could send a picture and send it to someone to prove that. I have the serial number- 8000164
>Any help would be appreciated so I do not have to go buy this kid a new lock. TIA

It's doubtful any locksmith, including me, would give you the
combination because there is no way to know if you want the
combination for the lock on your son's locker or you want to gain
access to who knows what. Nothing personal, it's just part of being
in the security business.

[TimR]

On Tuesday, August 8, 2017 at 4:38:00 PM UTC-4, rvrey...@gmail.com wrote:
> Any chance of getting the combination to an old masterlock sphero lock my son used on his locker last year and we cannot locate the combination anywhere. Its not attatched to anything and I could send a picture and send it to someone to prove that. I have the serial number- 8000164
> Any help would be appreciated so I do not have to go buy this kid a new lock. TIA

That's not a high security lock. Shim it open then look down the hole and decode it. If you can't figure that out spend $10 on a new one. Take it out of the kid's allowance and teach him some responsibility.

[J.B. Wood]

On 08/08/2017 04:37 PM, rvrey...@gmail.com wrote:
> Any chance of getting the combination to an old masterlock sphero lock my son used on his locker last year and we cannot locate the combination anywhere. Its not attatched to anything and I could send a picture and send it to someone to prove that. I have the serial number- 8000164
> Any help would be appreciated so I do not have to go buy this kid a new lock. TIA
>

Hello, and assuming this lock hasn't any sentimental value, why bother
for an item with an MSRP less than 10 bucks? A locksmith could probably
look up the combo for a fee but you'd most likely have to have the
padlock in hand. If you're looking to purchase a new Sphero style lock,
I believe Masterlock discontinued that line a while back. Sincerely,

[Derek Broestler]

On Tuesday, August 8, 2017 at 4:38:00 PM UTC-4, rvrey...@gmail.com wrote:

> Any chance of getting the combination to an old masterlock sphero lock my son used on his locker last year and we cannot locate the combination anywhere. Its not attatched to anything and I could send a picture and send it to someone to prove that. I have the serial number- 8000164
> Any help would be appreciated so I do not have to go buy this kid a new lock. TIA

I'm sorry to be the barer of bad news, but here it is, honestly.

For what it will cost to either have a locksmith provide the combination, or to get the lost combo form notarized, so you can get it directly from Master Lock, you'll save money by just chucking it in the garbage and picking up a new Master Combo Lock from Wally World, they sell for about $3 (and they ALMOST provide $.20 worth of security). Many locksmith's don't even offer that service anymore because it's not worth our time vs. what a new one costs. If a customer called me asking how much to decode one of these, I'd tell them the same.

The sphero, I believe has been discontinued (or at least scaled back), but it was the same lock just painted and with a different dial, everything inside is the same. By the way, the combo locks you can get at most Dollar Stores for literally $1, is ALSO the same lock.. It just doesn't say "Master Lock" on it... They're probably even made in the same factory in China...

If you're heck bent on having a sphero, you can usually find them on Ebay in the $6 range, but again, between the price of the lock and shipping, you're gonna spend several times what it's worth. I just looked it up on Amazon and they're selling them for $12, which is INSANE for a garbage Master Combo lock...

[J.B. Wood]

On 08/11/2017 08:18 PM, Derek Broestler wrote:

> The sphero, I believe has been discontinued (or at least scaled back), but it was the same lock just painted and with a different dial, everything inside is the same. By the way, the combo locks you can get at most Dollar Stores for literally $1, is ALSO the same lock.. It just doesn't say "Master Lock" on it... They're probably even made in the same factory in China...

Hello, and FWIW, I think the Sphero line did come from China but the
flagship 1500 series is/was being assembled in Mexico. Some of us have
been around long enough to remember when all Master locks were
manufactured in Milwaukee ;-) It's amazing that Master is still around,
given the demise (not necessarily the brand) of padlock producers in the
U.S. such as American/Junkunc, Corbin, Eagle, National, Dudley,
Slaymaker, Yale and Fraim. Yeah, there were quite a few. Those
companies produced good (for the money) stuff as well but I guess Master
was best at marketing (especially to schools). Sincerely,

[Derek Broestler]

Agreed on the decline of American MADE padlocks, and locks in general... Whether it comes from Mexico or China, the quality (or lack there of) of Masterlock is pretty much the same as the knockoffs you can get for literally a buck... Just about the ONLY Master Lock I can even recommend is the 6700 series, a keyed padlock that will use any appropriate cylinder... Though I doubt anyone wants to spend $70 on a padlock for a school locker....

For customers asking about padlocks in the "under $15 dollar range" I suggest the American 1100 series. It as an aluminium body, so not as strong as a steel bodied on, but for most applications, like this one, it'll do. I mean it's a school locker, not Fort Knox... The 5200G series, I beleive, is pretty much the same as, except with a steel body, they come in typically at just over $15 on Amazon.

As for WHY the MasterLock 1500 became so popular with schools and other "locker applications", I actually know the reason... It's because it IS a cheap, low security lock.... Just about every school janitor knows how to shim them open, with nothing more than a Coke can and a pair of snips... and they have for a long time... Saves the schools money on locksmiths, or risking damaging the locker by cutting them off when a student forgets the combo, or school employees need to get in.

Even many of the students have known for a while, judging from what I knew in the mid 90's when I was in high school, LONG before I became a locksmith, and before the internet... Back in MY day, theft was obviously a big concern, but also this was during the start of the school lockdowns and drug sweeps, and I quickly realized that if people could bypass the Master combo to play pranks, they could ALSO do it to ditch their stash. So I bought an American 10 Series, the precursor to the 1100... Still have it today and it still works great, I still actually use it on the "nice inventory" / "Flammables" locker in my home shop" Can't be bypassed quickly like the 1100s (even then you need a Peterson bypass, or similar for the 1100s, and back covers for the 1100 are cheap) and is a PITA to pick or bump... Only drawbacks were it can't be rekeyed, and of course, customers do need to carry a key. (I don't understand why that's so hard for kids today... I was a "latchkey kid" at 7... Never lost my keys (before cell phones to... so, lose your key, you were on the stoop and S*** out of luck until Mom came home)...

I remember when I first started and hearing the older guys in the shop talk about how locks were much better made "back in the day" and I have to agree now that I've got enough time it to come across those older locks.... while the old American made Master Combo had the same bypass flaws, the old one's WERE made much better... Of course, due to the price point not changing much in decades, they were more expensive back then comparatively speaking, I'd guess about that about $15-$20 price point I suggest when a customer wants an "good, affordable padlock". I mean, at the end of the day, with locks, you usually DO get what you pay for.

[Derek Broestler]

On Thursday, August 24, 2017 at 7:32:20 AM UTC-4, J.B. Wood wrote:

And YEAH... come across some of those OLD Yale padlocks over the years... No joke at ALL... Especially the GI ones that I still find every once in a while. They're solid, shim resistant because of the tolerances, and I HATE picking the Y-1 and similar keyways with a passion... Pins are rounded, so impressioning is an equal PITA... Thank you bump keys!!! Most of the time, that is... Usually they're JUST worn enough that bumping works fairly quickly for me... If they're in good condition and barely used, like one I had to do for the local AF museum.... "Yeah, this AIN'T like the movies, we're prolly gonna be here a while"... (took me almost and hour, as all I had in the time that would even fit and reach was a Pro-Lock half diamond, and a hook I made myself from a Harbor Freight Scraper blade.) Fun, fun...

[J.B. Wood]

On 08/25/2017 01:17 AM, Derek Broestler wrote:
> On Thursday, August 24, 2017 at 7:32:20 AM UTC-4, J.B. Wood wrote:
>> On 08/11/2017 08:18 PM, Derek Broestler wrote:
>>
>>> The sphero, I believe has been discontinued (or at least scaled back), but it was the same lock just painted and with a different dial, everything inside is the same. By the way, the combo locks you can get at most Dollar Stores for literally $1, is ALSO the same lock.. It just doesn't say "Master Lock" on it... They're probably even made in the same factory in China...
>>
>> Hello, and FWIW, I think the Sphero line did come from China but the
>> flagship 1500 series is/was being assembled in Mexico. Some of us have
>> been around long enough to remember when all Master locks were
>> manufactured in Milwaukee ;-) It's amazing that Master is still around,
>> given the demise (not necessarily the brand) of padlock producers in the
>> U.S. such as American/Junkunc, Corbin, Eagle, National, Dudley,
>> Slaymaker, Yale and Fraim. Yeah, there were quite a few. Those
>> companies produced good (for the money) stuff as well but I guess Master
>> was best at marketing (especially to schools). Sincerely,
>>
>>
>> --
>> J. B. Wood e-mail: arl_1...@hotmail.com
>
> And YEAH... come across some of those OLD Yale padlocks over the years... No joke at ALL... Especially the GI ones that I still find every once in a while. They're solid, shim resistant because of the tolerances, and I HATE picking the Y-1 and similar keyways with a passion...
>

Thanks for the detailed follow-ups to my OP, Derek. I appreciate this
historical insight although perhaps others don't. That coke-can padlock
shimming technique AFAIK was unheard of back in my school days.
Basically, it's the same as using a credit card on a door lock that uses
a spring to hold the bolt/plunger in the locked position. It's cheap to
manufacture. I've got several Yale #515 series combo padlocks that were
also used in schools. They don't use a spring-loaded plunger and are
therefore shim resistant, but they use a lot more parts internally than
other designs. (You can see the internal differences on the patent
drawings) Not a bad Yale design, though, and the shackle is secured on
both sides.

I remember one of my high school friends managing to craft a key that
would open all the school's Master #1525 padlocks. I never knew whether
he had any nefarious intent. The point is that the weak point on these
inexpensive padlocks, other than shimability (is this a word?) and
rap-resistance, is the hardness of the shackle metal. Your bolt cutters
will really get chewed up trying to cut off an S&G padlock. But putting
such a padlock on on gym locker is overkill, IMHO. Sincerely,

[Derek Broestler]

I've not run across any Yale #515's, but I have no doubt it blew the doors of Master Lock back then, even with Master being produced in the US... Of course, being a more complicated mechanism, (and the Yale name, back in a time when many people still saw them as one of THE authorities on locks) it was probably a bit more expensive as well. Which I'm sure contributed to both it and Yale's (and other solid companies, like Sargent, Corban / Russwin, etc) overall decline in residential markets in favor of companies like Master Lock and Kwikset... The desire for low price and convenience of consumers in the US REALLY hurt overall security in the residential lock market.

I'll have to do the patent search sometime soon and check it out... It sounds interesting and I never know when I might run into one, and I hate using any form of destructive entry if it can be avoided... Especially on a cool old lock.

The older Yale padlocks I have run across are mostly WW2 era, I also see some other general issue locks from Corbin, Sargent, American, etc for securing foot lockers, etc... THANKFULLY due to age and wear their tolerances have opened up a bit from when they were originally produced, STILL a pain to get into, even after seven decades of service... I can't even imagine what a PITA they were to unlock when they were new. Granted, I'm probably not as used to dealing with the Y-1 keyway as locksmiths back then, and have probably learned to rely more on raking and kinetic attacks then they did, and it may just be a mental block, but I know for ME, they're a pain...

They really DON'T make them like that anymore... Well... OK, they DO, but most folks don't want to shell out the money for quality for residential, when they do they're more concerned with form over function.

I'm sure I'm not the only locksmith who constantly gets the question "So what's a REALLY good, REALLY cheap, lock?" (amazingly, this question always comes when you're 'off')... and has to explain, "There's really no such animal, what you CAN get is a 'PRETTY good, not OVERLY expensive lock'... If you want a solution cheaper than a $60 deadbolt or $25 dollar padlock, go down to the pet store, buy the biggest dog bowl they have, paint the name Hulk on it, put it outside, and hope for the best because I don't sell any product I can't stand behind or wouldn't recommend to a friend.".... lol

Sorry I went a bit off topic there... It's been a week and a half already, and it's only Wednesday... lol

[Derek Broestler]

As for the S&G padlock on a locker... YEAH... I'd say that's officially overkill... LMAO... That's not to say I wouldn't do it though if I had one on hand sitting around not securing anything more important...

It's like the customers who's insurance companies suggest Medeco... It's not because it's a magic shield that makes you completely secure, but if someone wants in THAT bad, they're gonna REALLY destroy stuff to do it.

I still maintain that a good, not too expensive, but fairly secure lock for a school / work / gym locker (someplace where it's not out in the open) would be the American 1100 series WITH an anti bipass wafer installed...

Under $15, plus another $5-$10 from your local lock shop if you bring it in to install the wafer. Shim resistant, bypass resistant, a pain to pick or bump quickly most of the time, fairly good hardened shackle... It's not gonna stop a dedicated prolonged attack or power tools, but then again, neither is the door of the locker. I'd say that's enough to stop the majority of folks who've watched some videos and done some online shopping.

[gr.d...@gmail.com]

Hi, folks.

First post, please forgive the intrusion to your group, but you seem like a knowledgeable and helpful group of folks (and I've appreciated the Biblical references I've seen in some of the sigs).

Anyway, my uncle passed away some time ago and left behind some locksmith tools, supplies and code books. He learned via a correspondence course, and while I enjoyed some of the courses he shared with me, I don't think I really want to enter the trade.

So, if you don't mind, what are the legal requirements for selling these items? Common/ordinary key blanks and cutting machines don't greatly concern me, but things like code books (padlocks, vehicles, etc.) certainly do. Of course they may not have much value, since they are all pretty old (I don't think he updated them after the early 90s, but perhaps manufacturers reuse SNs and combos).

I'd respectfully appreciate any wisdom and insights you may be willing to share.

Kind regards,
Greg

[Skipfromla]

If you are in the US, it would depend on the state you're in. The
best bet is to check with local locksmiths and go on line to check the
state laws.

[Derek Broestler]

Yeah, first step is call some of the local reputable locksmiths in your area, or you uncle's locksmith friends and check if any of them want to buy them off of you.... If they don't (and be prepared for that, since most of us now use subscription services for codes, so we can access almost ALL codes them anywhere without lugging around all the different books) but they MIGHT know someone who would.

After that check your local laws. State's and even counties can vary GREATLY when it comes to "locksmith tools"...

After that, books for old master padlocks wouldn't be too much of a concern for me personally, since they have so many flaws it's easier for just about anyone wanting to to defeat them without codes, anyone with criminal intent isn't going to bother with code books.... but you'll still want to be careful with anything involving vehicles or more high security locks.

When we evacuated earlier this month, I even made sure to pack up my safe manuals and Medeco etc code books because I knew they'd be safer with me then left unattended for a week or more (thankfully we didn't sustain damage)... Granted, the chances of someone coming across them, knowing what they are how to use them, and successfully using them criminally is slim... but better safe than sorry.

[gr.d...@gmail.com]

Skip/Derek:

Thanks for your responses. I guess I shouldn't be surprised they are all online nowadays, hopefully more secure than the idiots at Equifax. ;)

I'm going to keep some of the tools, I rekey and install locks for friends and sometimes have need to pick a lock (also for friends, not strangers, obviously).

For any licensed locksmith in the greater Phoenix metro area who may be interested in a bunch of blanks and a couple of key-cutting machines and/or code books, post in. It's pulling at my heart to just get rid of so much of his stuff, he was a great guy and taught me more than than I could here relate.

Thanks again,
Greg

[Derek Broestler]

Greg,
I completely understand the emotions involved... as for ME tools are personal, especially ones used for a career. I obviously didn't know your uncle, but I know many locksmiths and other tradesmen who feel the same way... I currently don't have kids, and it's not looking like I will, so when my day comes I'll pass along the tools that belonged to my grandfather to my younger brother to keep them in the family, but he most likely won't be interested in my specialized locksmith equipment.... At that point I know MY wishes for them are that he find a young, legitimate locksmith who's completed some initial training or apprenticing in a shop or just starting off on their own, so that I would "know" that the person who finally gets them fully appreciates the collection I've amassed over my lifetime and is as passionate about the field as I am, as I know back in the day when I was just starting out such finds REALLY meant a lot to me both professionally and personally.

Best of luck,
Derek

[lockw...@gmail.com]

Greg,

I am not in Arizona, I'm in Ohio. However, if you want to sell some of those tools, email me what you have and how much you want for them individually.

And, tools are also personal to me as well. Before Locksmithing I was in Manufacturing and the Tool and Die trades for 26 yrs. So not only do I have all my expensive tools from those trades, I also now have my Locksmith tools! My lockpicks are my most personal and I would never willingly part with my least expensive tension wrench!

Email me: lockw...@gmail.com

Jeff Kiral
Lock Wizard, LLC

[Skipfromla]

I get it. I retired from the locksmith business in 2008, and planned
on selling my tools, code machine, 3 key duplication machines, lots of
key blanks and code books. Well, I still have all of it. For some
reason I'm having trouble parting with them.

Skip

[Derek Broestler]

I don't think we ever actually retire.... I know one locksmith who's almost 90... he's been "retired" for almost 25 years... Longer than I've been doing this... Met him through my old boss, he'd come by the shop from time to time... Still has all his tools... Still takes the occasional call... Personally, I can't imagine being any different in fifty years provided I'm fortunate enough to live that long and still have my faculties...

[cali.de...@gmail.com]

Idk if it'd be of help to you but I have 25 various masterlock keys, all all types. Make me an offer if you'd like them. 😊