Allamah IQBAL ki Urdu nazmein...
faq...@my-deja.com
ki nazmoN par aik guftagu ke saath kee jaaye? :-)
Shikwa, Jawab-e-Shikwa, Saqi-nama, tuloo'-e-Islam, Masjid-e-Qurtuba sab
Iqbal ki mashoor, balke Urdu adab ki mashoor nazmon mein se hain--aur
iss mein koi shaq nahin.!
mera yeh sawaal hai ke aap logoN ki nazar mein Iqbal Urdu ke behtreen
nazar nigaar hain ya nahin hain? (mere nasdeeq to hain albata naatiya
nazmon mein main unko Ala Hazrat Imam Ahmad Raza Khan se kam satr ka
shaayar maanta hoon):-)
Also, Iqbal ki hayaat pe likhee gayee chand achee kitaaboN ke naam bhi
dhoond raha hoon..:-)
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Naheed Rana
> Adaab! This is my first posting on this forum! To aaghaz kyon na Iqbal
> ki nazmoN par aik guftagu ke saath kee jaaye? :-)
>
> Shikwa, Jawab-e-Shikwa, Saqi-nama, tuloo'-e-Islam, Masjid-e-Qurtuba sab
> Iqbal ki mashoor, balke Urdu adab ki mashoor nazmon mein se hain--aur
> iss mein koi shaq nahin.!
> mera yeh sawaal hai ke aap logoN ki nazar mein Iqbal Urdu ke behtreen
> nazar nigaar hain ya nahin hain? (mere nasdeeq to hain albata naatiya
> nazmon mein main unko Ala Hazrat Imam Ahmad Raza Khan se kam satr ka>
shaayar maanta hoon):-)
meiN ne is se pehle kabhi Imam Ahmad Raza Khan ke baray maiN nahiN suna;
shukria unka kalam post karne ka, aik arsah baad naatiya kalam paRah hai!
Iqbal ka naatiya kalaam sha'yad Ahmad Raza ke payah ka na ho, lakin Iqbal
par un ka apna hi yeh sher poora saadiq aata hai:
Is Khaak ko Allah ne baKh'she haiN wo aansoo
karti hai chamak jin ki sitaaroN ko Ghar'q-naak
Naheed
faq...@my-deja.com
Jawaab keliye shukriya; albatta aap ne to bataaya hi nahin ke aap ko
Ala Hazrat (Imam Ahmad Raza Khan ko aam tawr pe unke is laqab se hi
pukaara jaata hai) ki woh pesh kardah naatiyya nazm pasand aayee ke
nahin? Unki kalaam mein aisee hi taaseer aur tarranum aur husn-e-
bayaani hoti hai--aur Iqbal ki tarah unki kalaam mein bhi Farsiyyat
tipakTee hai :-) Unke baare mein jaan-ne keliye aap www.alahazrat.net
ya www.raza.co.za par jaiyega :) Haan unka majmua kalaam 'Hadaiq e
Bakhshish' ke naam se chap chuka hai. Aap 1856 taa 1921 tak is aalam e
faani mein zia-posh rehe the aur unka watan Bareilly tha isliye unko
Ala Hazrat Imam Ahmad Raza Khan BARELVI kaha jata. Bareilly is in India
(UP?) Anyway Ala Hazrat is famous as a multifaceted religious scholar
and Sufi saint as well as a great naatiya poetry; it is the only poetry
he did being primarily a mufti and a faqih.
Anyway, this post is about Allamah sahib. Bayshaq aap ka shair bajaa
hai aur Iqbal ne aalam mein apni roshni phelaayi hai. Jahaan tak unke
qantiya lkalaam ka taaluq hai mere khyaal mein unHon nein aksar faarsi
mein hi kaha hai...
Which is your fave. nazm of his?
Asif
Javaid R. Khwaja
>Also, Iqbal ki hayaat pe likhee gayee chand achee kitaaboN ke naam bhi
>dhoond raha hoon..:-)
Rooh-e-Iqbal By Dr. Abid Hussain, that is if you can
lay hands on a copy. It used to be one of the most
authentic as well as rare works on Iqbal, written not
too long ago from his times.
Javaid Khwaja
URL Link Page
: <A HREF="http:/members.aol.com/new.htm">
http://members.aol.com/jkgrope/new.htm</A><BR>
Poetry Page
<A HREF="http://members.aol.com/javaidk809/index.htm">
http://members.aol.com/javaidk809/index.htm</A><BR>
Naheed Rana
> Ala Hazrat (Imam Ahmad Raza Khan ko aam tawr pe unke is laqab se hi
> pukaara jaata hai) ki woh pesh kardah naatiyya nazm pasand aayee ke
> nahin
naatiya nazm pasand to bohat aai, lakin maiN ne koi raa'e is liye nahi di
thi,
keh naa't to hamesha hi achhi hoti hai! waise, tarranum waaqe'i bohat hai is
naat meiN.
>Anyway Ala Hazrat is famous as a multifaceted religious scholar
> and Sufi saint as well as a great naatiya poetry; it is the only poetry
> he did being primarily a mufti and a faqih.
shukria, Ala Hazrat [waise, laqab muKhtasar hai, unlike the name :-)] ke
bare meiN batane ka. mujhe to bilkul nahiN pata tha in ke muta'aliq.
>Anyway, this post is about Allamah sahib. Bayshaq aap ka shair bajaa
>hai aur Iqbal ne aalam mein apni roshni phelaayi hai. Jahaan tak unke
>qantiya lkalaam ka taaluq hai mere khyaal mein unHon nein aksar faarsi
>mein hi kaha hai...
Faarsi mujhe nahiN aati, is liye faarsi shaairi ka bhi ilm nahi hai, lakin
Iqbal ki to Urdu shaairi bhi hameN aasaani se smajh nahi aati, bas guzara ho
jata hai :-))
> Which is your fave. nazm of his?
Asif sahab, kisi aik ka naam lena to mushkil hai, lakin pichle dinoN Iqbal
ki aik nazm Ablees Ki Majlas-e-Shoora paRhi thi, bohat achhi lagi; is mein
jis tarah qaum ki kotahioN ki nishaandahi ki gaai hai--its simply amazing!!
lakin ,Iqbal ki baaqi shaairi ki tarah, maayoosi is nazm meiN bhi nahi hai!
"aarzo" wale thread se yaad aaya, Iqbal ki aik aur nazm, Aik Aarzoo, bhi
pasand hai; Khastaur par ,saada alfaaz meiN ki gaai khoobsoorat
manzar-kashi! kuchh sher paish haiN is nazm se:
marta hooN Khaamshi par yeh aarzoo hai meri
daaman meiN koh kay ik chhota sa jhonpaRa ho
lazzat sarod ki ho chiRioN ke cheh,chahoN meiN
chashme ki shorashoN meiN baja sa baj raha ho
aaGhosh meiN zamiN ki soya hooaa ho sabzah
phir phir kay jhaaRioN meiN paani chamak raha ho
paani ko chhoo rahi ho jhuk jhuk ke gul ki tehni
jaise haseen koi aaina daikhta ho!
By the way, aapko Iqbal ka kon sa sher pasand hai [agar sher faarsi ho to
tarjamah zaroor kar dijiye ga :-)]
Naheed
Vivek
tu to tundee-e-baad-e-khilaaf se ghabra gaya O kaab
yeh to chaltee hai tujhe aur ooncha le jaane ke liye
~~~
Give a fish food and you feed it for a day. Teach a fish to get food and
you feed it for life.
~~~
gu...@tamu.edu http://ee.tamu.edu/~vivekgu/
rajkp...@my-deja.com
In article <yxkh4.1443$YG4....@newscontent-01.sprint.ca>,
"Naheed Rana" <nahe...@uoguelph.ca> wrote:
> "aarzoo" waale thread se yaad aaya, Iqbal ki aik aur nazm,
> Aik Aarzoo, bhi
> pasand hai; Khaas taur par, saada alfaaz meiN ki gaai khoobsoorat
> manzar-kashi! kuchh sher paish haiN is nazm se:
> marta hooN Khaamushi par yeh aarzoo hai meri
> daaman meiN koh kay ik chhota sa jhonpaRa ho
>
> lazzat sarod ki ho chiRioN ke cheh'chahoN meiN
> chashme ki shorashoN meiN baaja sa baj rahaa ho
>
> aaGhosh meiN zamiN ki soya hooaa ho sabzah
> phir phir kay jhaaRioN meiN paani chamak raha ho
>
> paani ko chhoo rahi ho jhuk jhuk ke gul ki tehni
> jaise haseen koi aaina daikhta ho!
>
> Naheed
bahut khoob, Naheed Sahiba, bahut khoob. kya ash'aar pesh kiye haiN!
Iqbal ki yeh nazm hamaare matriculation ke nisaab meiN thi, aur mujhe
be-had pasand thi. yeh koi 1947-48 ki baat hai, jab ke maiN ne yeh nazm
pehli baar paRhi thi aur is se be-had muta'assir hua tha. us ke ba'ad,
yeh nazm na kaheeN paRhi na sunee --- until now!!!
aap ke post kiye huye chaar she'r paRhne ke ba'ad, maiN ne aek baar
phir apne "haafize ki jheel" meiN ghota-zani ki aur, aap hairaan hoN gi
ke, paanch-adad she'r aur faraaham kar laaya! voh she'r sabhi ALUPers
ke liye haazir-e-khidmat haiN:
shorash se hooN gurezaaN, dil DhooNDhta hai mera
aisa sukoot jis par taqreer bhi fidaa ho!!!
ho dil-fareb aisaa koh-saar ka nazaara
paani bhi mauj ban kar, uTh uTh ke dekhta ho
pichhle pehar ki ko'il, voh sub'h ki mu'azzin
maiN us ka ham-navaa hooN, voh meri ham-navaa ho!
raatoN ko chalne vaale reh jaayeN thak ke jis dam
ummeed un ki mera TooTa hua diyaa ho
is khaamushi meiN jaayeN itne buland naale
taaroN ke qaafile ko meri sadaa daraa ho!
-------------
You'll note that the last she'r here is typical Iqbal! It echoes the
title of his famous book "baaNg-e-daraa".
khair-aNdesh, Raj Kumar
Khursheed Ahmed
Aap ne Iqbal ki is khoobsorat nazam likh ker mere bachpan ki bhi yaadeN
taaza ker deeN. Yeh nazam hamari Urdu ki itaab, "Anwar-e-Adab" maiN Grade
VIII maiN paRhi thee. Bohat bohat shukriya. Kaafi din se ALUP mehfil se
Gher haazir hooN - sirf paRhne ka mauq milta hai, aur woh bhi kabhi kabhi.
Aaj kal mashghooiya kuch zayada hi ho gayee hai. Agle maah inshallah
zaroor shareek rahooN ga.
Khursheed
Naheed Rana
"Khursheed Ahmed" <ah...@fhs.csu.McMaster.CA> wrote in message
news:Pine.HPX.4.21.000122...@fhs.csu.McMaster.CA...
aap waaqe'i Khaase masroof lagte haiN, aur kuchh jaldi meiN bhi, jabhi to
hamaare "family name" ko "first name" kar diya :-))
Naheed Rana
<rajkp...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:86b5u8$2rm$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> bahut khoob, Naheed Sahiba, bahut khoob. kya ash'aar pesh kiye haiN!
> Iqbal ki yeh nazm hamaare matriculation ke nisaab meiN thi, aur mujhe
> be-had pasand thi. yeh koi 1947-48 ki baat hai, jab ke maiN ne yeh nazm
> pehli baar paRhi thi aur is se be-had muta'assir hua tha. us ke ba'ad,
> yeh nazm na kaheeN paRhi na sunee --- until now!!!
ham ne grade 7 meiN paRhi thi pehli baar,koi aik dahaai pehle. lakin baad
mein bhi paRne aur sunne ka itfaaq hota raha. waise, aapki yaad-daasht
waaqe'i bahut achhi hai!!
chooNke aapko aur Khursheed Sahab ko yeh nazm Khaasi pasand rahi hai to
kuchh aur ashar bhi suneN is nazm se...
duniya ki mehfiloN se ghabraa gayaa hooN ya rabb
kya lutf anjuman ka, jab dil hi bujh geyaa ho
shorash se bhaagta hooN, dil DhooNDhta hai mera
aisa sukoot jis par taqreer bhi fidaa ho!!!
aazaad fikr se hooN, uzlat meiN din guzaaroN
duniya ke Gham ka dil se kaantaa nikal geyaa ho
ho haath ka sarhaana, sabzah ka ho bichhonah
sharmaaye jis se jalwat, Khalwat meiN wo adaa ho
mehNdi lagaaye sooraj jab shaam ki dulhan ko
surKhi liye sunehri har phool ki qabaa ho
raatoN ko chalne waale, reh jaa'eN thak ke jis dam
umeed unki mera toota hooa diya ho
bijli chamak kar unko kutiya meri dikha de
jab aasmaaN pe har so baadal ghiraa hooaa ho
phoolooN ko aaye jis dam shabnam wuzoo karaane
ronaa mera wuzoo ho, naalaa meri duaa ho
aur aakhri sher is nazm ka hai..
har dard-mand dil ko ronaa meraa rulaa de
behosh jo paRye haiN shaayad unheN jagaa de
Naheed
rajkp...@my-deja.com
In article <0cyi4.7828$MI4....@newscontent-01.sprint.ca>,
"Naheed Rana" <nahe...@uoguelph.ca> wrote:
aur hamaare naam ke saath aek zaa'id 'a' lagaa kar use kisi had tak
Japanese lehja ataa kar diya :-))
phir bhi shukr hai ke yihi 'a' kaheeN 'Saheb' ke saath naheeN lagaa
diya! LOL
rajkp...@my-deja.com
In article <G5yi4.7819$MI4....@newscontent-01.sprint.ca>,
"Naheed Rana" <nahe...@uoguelph.ca> wrote:
> <rajkp...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
> news:86b5u8$2rm$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> > bahut khoob, Naheed Sahiba, bahut khoob. kya ash'aar pesh kiye haiN!
> > Iqbal ki yeh nazm hamaare matriculation ke nisaab meiN thi, aur
> > mujhe
> > be-had pasand thi. yeh koi 1947-48 ki baat hai, jab ke maiN ne yeh
> > nazm
> > pehli baar paRhi thi aur is se be-had muta'assir hua tha. us ke
> > ba'ad,
> > yeh nazm na kaheeN paRhi na sunee --- until now!!!
>
> ham ne grade 7 meiN paRhi thi pehli baar, koi aik dahaai pehle. lakin
> baad
> mein bhi paRne aur sunne ka itfaaq hota raha. waise, aapki
> yaad-daasht
> waaqe'i bahut achhi hai!!
kya khoob hai ke yeh nazm ham ne grade 9 meiN paRhi, Khursheed Sahib ne
grade 8 meiN, aur aap ne grade 7 meiN. is ka matlab to yeh hua ke,
nasl-ba-nasl, log zaheen se zaheen-tar hote jaa rahe haiN! :-))
> chooNke aapko aur Khursheed Sahab ko yeh nazm Khaasi pasand rahi hai
> to kuchh aur ashaar bhi suneN is nazm se...
>
> duniya ki mehfiloN se ghabraa gayaa hooN ya rabb
> kya lutf anjuman ka, jab dil hi bujh geyaa ho
yeh she'r us nazm ka pehla she'r hai. magar jahaaN tak mujhe yaad hai,
pehle misre' meiN lafz 'ghabraa' ki bajaaye 'uktaa' tha. baihr ke
lihaaz se to donoN lafz yaksaaN haiN magar ma'ani ke lihaaz se 'uktaa'
kaheeN behtar hai. agar aap ki kitaab meiN 'ghabraa' hai to koi
mazaa'iqa naheeN, kiyooN-ke vaqt ke saath aisi chhoTi-moTi tabdeeliyaaN
aksar ho jaati haiN.
> shorash se bhaagta hooN, dil DhooNDhta hai mera
> aisa sukoot jis par taqreer bhi fidaa ho!!!
yahaan par bhi pehle misre' meiN, 'bhaagta hooN' ki bajaaye 'hooN
gurezaaN' tha. khair, yahaan par baihr aur ma'ani donoN ke lihaaz se
kuchh bhi chal sakta hai.
aur, Naheed ji, yeh bhi mumkin hai ke kisi khudaa-taras bande ne "grade
7 ke bachche-bachchiyoN ki fehm-o-firaasat" ka khayaal rakhte hue, is
misre' ko jaan boojh kar aasaan kar diya ho! :-))
> aazaad fikr se hooN, uzlat meiN din guzaaroN
> duniya ke Gham ka dil se kaantaa nikal geyaa ho
For those who may not know it, uzlat = withdrawal, seclusion, ---.
> ho haath ka sarhaana, sabzah ka ho bichhona
> sharmaaye jis se jalwat, Khalwat meiN woh adaa ho
>
> mehNdi lagaaye sooraj jab shaam ki dulhan ko
> surKhi liye sunehri har phool ki qabaa ho
[qabaa = libaas, poshaak]. Beautiful imagery!
> raatoN ko chalne waale, reh jaa'eN thak ke jis dam
> umeed unki mera toota hooa diya ho
>
> bijli chamak kar unko kutiya meri dikhaa de
> jab aasmaaN pe har soo baadal ghiraa hooaa ho
To avoid the possibility of a rather undesirable misunderstanding,
kutiya should be kuTiya! ROTFL
> phooloN ko aaye jis dam shabnam wuzoo karaane
> ronaa mira wuzoo ho, naalaa miri duaa ho
Once I learnt the meaning of the word 'wuzoo', I liked this she'r a lot!
> aur aakhri sher is nazm ka hai..
>
> har dard-mand dil ko ronaa meraa rulaa de
> behosh jo paRye haiN shaayad unheN jagaa de
lagta hai ab qareeb-qareeb poori ki poori nazm cover ho gayee hai,
magar aek she'r abhi tak naheeN hua. us ka doosra misra' kuchh yooN hai:
rauzan hi jhoNpRi ka mujh ko jahaaN-numaa ho
Can you check this one for me? Pleeeeease!
khair-aNdesh, Raj Kumar
Naheed Rana
<rajkp...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:86fi4b$ufh$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> aur, Naheed ji, yeh bhi mumkin hai ke kisi khudaa-taras bande ne "grade
> 7 ke bachche-bachchiyoN ki fehm-o-firaasat" ka khayaal rakhte hue, is
> misre' ko jaan boojh kar aasaan kar diya ho! :-))
Yeah probably, lakin phir bhi agar bachche uzlat, rauzan, aur daraa ka
matlab samjh sakte haiN, to phir 'gurezaaN' bhi unke liye kuchh mushkil
nahiN :-))
> > bijli chamak kar unko kutiya meri dikhaa de
> > jab aasmaaN pe har soo baadal ghiraa hooaa ho
>
> To avoid the possibility of a rather undesirable misunderstanding,
> kutiya should be kuTiya! ROTFL
Theek farmayaa, lakin agar yooN countryside meiN rehna ho to "pet" rakhne
meiN bhi koi harj nahiN :-))
> lagta hai ab qareeb-qareeb poori ki poori nazm cover ho gayee hai,
> magar aek she'r abhi tak naheeN hua. us ka doosra misra' kuchh yooN hai:
>
> rauzan hi jhoNpRi ka mujh ko jahaaN-numaa ho
>
> Can you check this one for me? Pleeeeease!
Sure... :-))
kaanoN pe ho na meray dero-o-haram ka ehsaaN
rauzan hi jhoNpaRi ka mujhko sahar numa ho
baqi mandah ashar yooN haiN:
gul ki kali chaTak kar peGham de kisi ka
saaGhar zara saa goyaa mujhko jahanN-numa ho
manoos is qadar ho soorat se meri bulbul
nan'nhe se dil meiN us ke khaTka na kuchh meraa ho
Naheed
Naheed Rana
<rajkp...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:86fbpp$q7b$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
>
> > > Rajkumara Saheb aur Rana Saheba:
> > >
> > > Aap ne Iqbal ki is khoobsorat nazam likh ker mere bachpan ki bhi
> yaadeN
> > > taaza ker deeN. Yeh nazam hamari Urdu ki itaab, "Anwar-e-Adab"
> maiN Grade
> > > VIII maiN paRhi thee. Bohat bohat shukriya. Kaafi din se ALUP
> mehfil se
> > > Gher haazir hooN - sirf paRhne ka mauq milta hai, aur woh bhi kabhi
> kabhi.
> > > Aaj kal mashghooiya kuch zayada hi ho gayee hai. Agle maah
> inshallah
> > > zaroor shareek rahooN ga.
> > >
> > > Khursheed
>
> > aap waaqe'i Khaase masroof lagte haiN, aur kuchh jaldi meiN bhi,
> jabhi to
> > hamaare "family name" ko "first name" kar diya :-))
>
> aur hamaare naam ke saath aek zaa'id 'a' lagaa kar use kisi had tak
> Japanese lehja ataa kar diya :-))
> phir bhi shukr hai ke yihi 'a' kaheeN 'Saheb' ke saath naheeN lagaa
> diya! LOL
yeh bhi shukr kareN, ke 'a' ki bajaaye kaheeN 'i' nahi laga dia aap ke naam
ke aakhir meiN!! :-))
rajkp...@my-deja.com
In article <MPZi4.9467$MI4.1...@newscontent-01.sprint.ca>,
"Naheed Rana" <nahe...@uoguelph.ca> wrote:
> <rajkp...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
> news:86fi4b$ufh$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> > lagta hai ab qareeb-qareeb poori ki poori nazm cover ho gayee hai,
> > magar aek she'r abhi tak naheeN hua. us ka doosra misra' kuchh yooN
hai:
> >
> > rauzan hi jhoNpRi ka mujh ko jahaaN-numaa ho
> >
> > Can you check this one for me? Pleeeeease!
>
> Sure... :-))
>
> kaanoN pe ho na meray dair-o-haram ka ehsaaN
> rauzan hi jhoNpaRi ka mujhko sahar numaa ho
Yes, this is it! Thanks!!
The composition of the first line here is so masterly!!!
> baaqi maandah ashaar yooN haiN:
>
> gul ki kali chaTak kar paiGhaam de kisi ka
> saaGhar zaraa sa goyaa mujhko jahaaN-numa ho
>
> maanoos is qadar ho soorat se meri bulbul
> nan'nhe se dil meiN us ke khaTka na kuchh meraa ho
>
> Naheed
This recitation (and recollection) has been real fun. Nonetheless,
after re-scanning these postings back and forth, I recall that at least
one she'r has still managed to escape us. It goes like this:
saf baaNdhe dono jaanib booTe hare hare hoN
naddi ka saaf paani tasveer le rahaa ho!
Yes, the word here is 'naddi', not 'nadi --- with the same meaning
though!
Is this beautiful poem complete now?
khair-aNdesh, Raj Kumar (with no 'a' or 'i' at the end!) LOL
Rajiv Chakravarti
rajkp...@my-deja.com wrote:
> saf baaNdhe dono jaanib booTe hare hare hoN
> naddi ka saaf paani tasveer le rahaa ho!
>
> Yes, the word here is 'naddi', not 'nadi --- with the same meaning
> though!
Namashkar/Assalaam-aleikum,
I've been 'silently' reading this thread, however
I couldn't help but comment at this point.
A respectful query to ALUP readers.. There has
been some discussion about "tarkeeb" and
"andaaz-e-bayaaN" of Iqbal and no doubt his
constructions are very powerful and beautiful.
Being a relative newcomer to poetry though,
could someone comment on "appropriateness"
of construction and "taking extreme liberties"
with the language though (another name for
"poetic license")..?
For example, is "naddi" with the tashdeed on
the "daal" appropriate as far as usage? Sure
it is "behr-adherent" (as one ALUP reader puts it)
but I've never heard "nadi" pronounced "naddi"
anywhere before.. Perhaps it is my own
ignorance, but is it possible that this is
just a case of "extreme liberty" taken by the
poet when the language (Hindi in this case)
simply does not have the word in that form?
I'd like to see some comments on the subject
of construction and imagery.. I'm very interested
in this topic myself....
Another question thrown out to ponder.. We
see several gems written by exceptional poets
like GHaalib, Iqbal, etc.. However, having
read through a lot of poetry sincerely, I
have run across several "usages" of poets
(like the "naddi" above) which make me "think"
about the subject of how far can one take it
before the "asaatezaa" consider phrases
inappropriate ? It is a matter of taste, I am
sure....
I am inclined towards the "classical style" of
Urdu poetry myself and therefore some
"new-age" constructions throw me off the path.
I would put others like Faiz in this category
of new-age "allegorical" representation.
If one were simply take some of the usages of
these great poets, for instance, to scholars of
today without telling them the source, would
any of them "put a finger" on them perhaps?
(I'm referring to a "double-blind" test scenario
here... )
Hoping for honest discussions on the subject.
I'm sure to learn something in the process.
Thanks,
Rajiv[ rc...@yahoo.com ]
-----------------------------------------------------
KHudaa KHud meer-e-saaman ast, arbaab-e-tawakkul raa
-----------------------------------------------------
Naheed Rana
<rajkp...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:86icht$vn1$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
>
> This recitation (and recollection) has been real fun. Nonetheless,
> after re-scanning these postings back and forth, I recall that at least
> one she'r has still managed to escape us. It goes like this:
>
> naddi ka saaf paani tasveer le rahaa ho!
>
> Yes, the word here is 'naddi', not 'nadi --- with the same meaning
> though!
lakin sahi talaffuz to nadi hi hota hai na? maiN ne 'naddiya' to aksar
suna hai, lakin naddi nahiN (except this sher).
> Is this beautiful poem complete now?
ji nazm to mukam'mal ho gai ab [agarche mera Khayaal tha meri last post meiN
hi ho chuki hai :-)) ], lakin hamari kitaab ko phir aap se thoRa sa
iKhtilaaf hai; yeh booTe "hare bhare" haiN, sirf "hare hare" nahiN! :-))
Naheed
rajkp...@my-deja.com
In article <k2pj4.11786$MI4.1...@newscontent-01.sprint.ca>,
"Naheed Rana" <nahe...@uoguelph.ca> wrote:
> <rajkp...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
> news:86icht$vn1$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> >
> > This recitation (and recollection) has been real fun. Nonetheless,
> > after re-scanning these postings back and forth, I recall that at
> > least
> > one she'r has still managed to escape us. It goes like this:
> >
> > saf baaNdhe dono jaanib booTe hare hare hoN
> > naddi ka saaf paani tasveer le rahaa ho!
> >
> > Yes, the word here is 'naddi', not 'nadi --- with the same meaning
> > though!
> lakin sahi talaffuz to nadi hi hota hai na? maiN ne 'naddiya' to
aksar
> suna hai, lakin naddi nahiN (except in this sher).
Naheed ji:
kisi lafz ka saheeh talaffuz kya hai, yeh na to aap ke bas meiN hai na
mere bas meiN. :-((
albatta, Platts Saahib ki lughat, jo ke mere tajrube ke
mutaabiq 'unbeatable' hai, ka kehna hai ke is lafz ka saheeh
talaffuz 'nadi' bhi hai aur 'naddi' bhi. haaN, itna zaroor hai ke
voh 'nadi' ko tarjeeh dete haiN aur farmaate haiN ke 'naddi' kehna
muqaabiltan 'vulgar' hai. [Here, vulgar does not mean uncivilized; it
means unsophisticated].
ab, Iqbal ki defence meiN, khud Iqbal hi ko quote karna koi
samajh-daari ki baat to naheeN hai, magar is quote se aap andaaza lagaa
sakeN gi ke Allama is talaffuz ke saath bahut 'comfortable' the. voh,
apni mash'hoor nazm 'Himaala' meiN farmaate haiN ke
aati hai NADDI faraaz-e-koh se gaati hui
kausar-o-tasneem ki maujoN ko sharmaati hui
aa'ina sa shaahid-e-qudrat ko dikhlaati hui
sang-e-rah se gaah bachti gaah Takraati hui
kehne ka matlab yeh hai ke 'naddi', agarche less common aur less
sophisticated talaffuz hai, magar durust hai!
haaN, mujhe itna afsos zaroor hai ke maiN, jo kuchh bhi keh rahaa hooN,
sirf haafize ki binaa pe keh rahaa hooN --- aur, doosri taraf, aap haiN
ke Dher si kitaabeN jama' kiye baiThee haiN. zaraa sochiye to, bhalaa
yeh kahaaN ka insaaf hai? :-((
> > Is this beautiful poem complete now?
>
> ji, nazm to mukammal ho gai ab [agarche mera Khayaal tha ke meri last
> post meiN
> hi ho chuki hai :-)) ], lekin hamari kitaab ko phir aap se thoRa sa
> iKhtilaaf hai; yeh booTe "hare bhare" haiN, sirf "hare hare" nahiN!
:-))
aakhir ham insaan haiN, Naheed ji, koi farishte to haiN naheeN!
vaaq'ii, 'hare bhare' is much better than 'hare hare'. magar aap yeh
bataaiye ke "agar yeh she'r aap ki kitaab meiN tha, to ise pehle kiyooN
naheeN quote kiya --- aur khwaah-ma-khwaah hameN kiyooN zaihmat di"???
jaaiye, ham naheeN bolte aap se! :-((
(still) khair-aNdesh, Raj Kumar
Naheed Rana
<rajkp...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:86lr1t$gml$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> ab, Iqbal ki defence meiN, khud Iqbal hi ko quote karna koi
> samajh-daari ki baat to naheeN hai, magar is quote se aap andaaza lagaa
> sakeN gi ke Allama is talaffuz ke saath bahut 'comfortable' the. voh,
> apni mash'hoor nazm 'Himaala' meiN farmaate haiN ke
>
> aati hai NADDI faraaz-e-koh se gaati hui
> kausar-o-tasneem ki maujoN ko sharmaati hui
> aa'ina sa shaahid-e-qudrat ko dikhlaati hui
> sang-e-rah se gaah bachti gaah Takraati hui
yaad aaya, Amjad Islam Amjad ne bhi yeh lafz istemaal kiya hai
sam'e ke samandar! kahaa too ne jo bhi, sunaa, par na samjhe
jawaani ki naddi, meiN tha tez paani, zara phir se kehna
mile kaise sadioN ki piyaas aur paani, zara phir se kehna
baRi dilruba hai yeh saari kahaani, zara phir se kehna
> aakhir ham insaan haiN, Naheed ji, koi farishte to haiN naheeN!
> vaaq'ii, 'hare bhare' is much better than 'hare hare'. magar aap yeh
> bataaiye ke "agar yeh she'r aap ki kitaab meiN tha, to ise pehle kiyooN
> naheeN quote kiya --- aur khwaah-ma-khwaah hameN kiyooN zaihmat di"???
jaan boojh kar to nahiN choRa tha, bas reh gaya [see, how bad my memory is!!
:-)]. waise bhi, Raj Kumar Sahab, hameN kitaab kholne ki taufiq kam hi hoti
hai, jab aap ka bhejaa hua aaKhri sher paRha to kuchh different laga, is
liye kitaab khol kar daikha. lakin, aapki yaad'dasht waaqe'i bahut achhi
hai, hameN to kal ki baat yaad nahiN rehti!!
Naheed
Vijay S. Bajwa
> In article <G5yi4.7819$MI4....@newscontent-01.sprint.ca>,
> "Naheed Rana" <nahe...@uoguelph.ca> wrote:
>
> > <rajkp...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
> > news:86b5u8$2rm$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
>
> > phooloN ko aaye jis dam shabnam wuzoo karaane
> > ronaa mira wuzoo ho, naalaa miri duaa ho
>
> Once I learnt the meaning of the word 'wuzoo', I liked this she'r a lot!
Not recently I would think, yeh lafz to hum jaise jahil bhi pandrah bees
saal se jaante haiN, jab se amreeka sidhare haiN aur musalmaan dost
huey. Waise maine Urdu paRhni/likhni bhi yahan aane ke baad hi sikhi.
Alfaaz kafi aatey they, par istemaal nahin karte they. Ab
tehreer aane ke baad confidence sa aa giya hai.
On another issue:
Hamare 'haaN Punjabi mein Urdu masculine gender mein use karte haiN,
jaise, "Une uRdu paDiyaa hoyaa ae". Do Punjabis on the other side of the
border also use the masculine form, or is this something very specific
to the area I'm from?
--
Vijay S. Bajwa
This message best viewed with a monitor and a computer
---------1---------2---------3---------4---------5---------6---------7---------8
Vivek
:-)On another issue:
:-)Hamare 'haaN Punjabi mein Urdu masculine gender mein use karte haiN,
:-)jaise, "Une uRdu paDiyaa hoyaa ae". Do Punjabis on the other side of the
:-)border also use the masculine form, or is this something very specific
:-)to the area I'm from?
:-)
aseen ta kehnde haan - uh noon urdu aandee hai
rajkp...@my-deja.com
In article <86kdsm$e87$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>,
Rajiv Chakravarti <raj...@my-deja.com> wrote:
> In article <86icht$vn1$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>,
> rajkp...@my-deja.com wrote:
>
> > saf baaNdhe dono jaanib booTe hare bhare hoN
> > naddi ka saaf paani tasveer le rahaa ho!
> >
> > Yes, the word here is 'naddi', not 'nadi --- with the same meaning
> > though!
> Being a relative newcomer to poetry though,
> could someone comment on "appropriateness"
> of construction and "taking extreme liberties"
> with the language though (another name for
> "poetic license")..?
>
> For example, is "naddi" with the tashdeed on
> the "daal" appropriate as far as usage? Sure
> it is "behr-adherent" (as one ALUP reader puts it)
> but I've never heard "nadi" pronounced "naddi"
> anywhere before.. Perhaps it is my own
> ignorance, but is it possible that this is
> just a case of "extreme liberty" taken by the
> poet when the language (Hindi in this case)
> simply does not have the word in that form?
Rajiv Sahib:
This particular case is NOT one of 'taking liberty' at all! As I have
already pointed out in my letter to Naheed Sahiba, 'naddi' is quite a
legitimate pronounciation --- a less favored one, though! I gave one
more example from Iqbal himself where the word in question has been
used this way, and she provided another example from Amjad. So, this
issue is essentially settled.
> Another question thrown out to ponder.. We
> see several gems written by exceptional poets
> like GHaalib, Iqbal, etc.. However, having
> read through a lot of poetry sincerely, I
> have run across several "usages" of poets
> (like the "naddi" above) which make me "think"
> about the subject of how far can one take it
> before the "asaatezaa" consider phrases
> inappropriate ? It is a matter of taste, I am
> sure....
I wish you had quoted some examples, so that we could see them through
one by one. In the absence of any concrete examples, all I can say is
that the situation varies from case to case. In general, I might say
that Urdu poets do not take liberties with language that lightly!!!
Of course, whenever they do take liberties (which is rare), it is
indeed a matter of personal taste but, more than that, it depends on
the status of the poet as well. Let me quote a few examples.
1. Persian words such as khayaal, qayaas, rayaaz, ----- are on a very
different footing from the corresponding Hindi words pyaar, pyaas,
dhyaan, ----- in that, whereas the latter are composed as if
their 'wazn' were equivalent to paar, paas, dhaan, ----, the former
must have their 'y' sound fully addressed.
However, here is Khudaa-e-Sukhan Meer Taqi Meer metering khayaal in
the 'wazn' of khaal:
"ishq bure hi kha(y)al paRaa hai, chain gayaa aaraam gayaa
dil ka jaanaa Thair gayaa hai, subah gayaa ya shaam gayaa".
aur, baghair kisi ke kuchh kahe, khud hi farmaate haiN ke [ab aap kaho
ge ke khayaal ki 'ye' ko zaahir karo! magar yahaaN is ke siva javaab
naheeN ke 'muhaavara yihi hai'].
ab aap hi bataaiye ke Khudaa-e-Sukhan se kaun baihs kare? :-))
2. maiN ne aek aur post meiN note kiya tha ke Shaa'ir-e-Mashriq ne apne
aek she'r meiN (jo ke Naheed Sahiba ne baraai-e-tashreeh ALUP par post
kiya tha), lafz mataa' ko muzakkar baaNdhaa tha, jab ke tamaam lughaat
meiN yeh lafz mu'annas hai. ab yeh kehna bahut mushkil hai ke yahaaN
par Allama ne zabaan ke saath liberty li hai ya ke un se vaaq'ii
ghalati hui hai!
3. My next example comes from Shaa'ir-e-Jamaal Firaq Gorakhpuri, who
was rather notorious for taking such liberties. But see how cautiously
he does so.
In his pivotal poem 'hinDolaa', which is more or less autobiographical,
he refers to a number of literary giants who were raised in the same
land as he was and then says:
"yaheeN ke chaand-v-sooraj khilaune the un ke".
Now, the words chaand and sooraj, being Hindi words, can't be put in a
conjunctive form as chaand-o-sooraj. But what Firaq has done here
(primarily to take care of the meter) clearly amounts to taking liberty
with grammar. And he is indeed conscious of it, for in a footnote he
says: "maiN saleeqe ke saath Hindi alfaaz ke darmiyaan 'atf' laana
jaa'iz samajhta hooN"!
ab kya kareN ge aap? esaateza se jhagRa mol leN ge? :-))
Notwithstanding these few examples, I will definitely say that, on the
whole, these fellows have taken very few liberties with language and,
by and large, have stayed well within the prescribed norms. Considering
that, they have indeed wrought miracles!!!!
> I am inclined towards the "classical style" of
> Urdu poetry myself and therefore some
> "new-age" constructions throw me off the path.
> I would put others like Faiz in this category
> of new-age "allegorical" representation.
> If one were simply take some of the usages of
> these great poets, for instance, to scholars of
> today without telling them the source, would
> any of them "put a finger" on them perhaps?
> (I'm referring to a "double-blind" test scenario
> here... )
Once again, I wish you had given some concrete examples that we could
have thrashed out together.