diesel fuel in a home fuel oil furnace?
Plowbl...@gmail.com
can i use?
Stormin Mormon
should work fine.
--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.
<Plowbl...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:95eec58c-d763-41ce...@j20g2000hsi.googlegroups.com...
Joseph Meehan
road taxes when you can buy heating oil for less? Some diesel owners buy
heating oil just to avoid the road tax and risk some hefty fines if they are
found out.
--
Joseph Meehan
Dia 's Muire duit
<Plowbl...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:95eec58c-d763-41ce...@j20g2000hsi.googlegroups.com...
Dr. Hardcrab
> can i use?
Yes, or K-1 (kerosene).
I know. You aren't on automatic delivery and if you run out, what do you do?
Keep a couple of 5 gallon cans around...
lp13-30
in here in the last few days about heating oil being almost exactly the
same price, so it looks like there would be no benefit in using Diesel
in a heating system, or heating oil in a Diesel vehicle, from a cost
standpoint. Larry
willshak
Diesel fuel is going for $3.56 to $3.80 a gallon around here.
Kerosene is about $3.90 a gallon
Heating oil is $2.93 to 3.39 a gallon.
Looks like heating oil is the cheapest, for me anyway.
--
Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
To email, remove the double zeroes after @
"Blattus Slafaly £ ¥ 0/00 :)"
Fuel oil is always cheaper than diesel because it is not taxed.
--
Blattus Slafaly ? 3 :) 7/8
Pete C.
Yes, essentially the only differences between the #2 heating oil in your
tank and the #2 diesel at the pump are the transportation fuel taxes you
pay at the pump and the red dye they put in the non taxed heating oil.
Otherwise they are interchangeable functionally, and the heating oil is
also known as "off road diesel" since it's legal to use in off road
equipment.
EXT
"Pete C." <aux3....@snet.net> wrote in message
news:47A47900...@snet.net...
That is not entirely correct. I was checking out the use of furnace fuel oil
to power my standby generator. I contacted a number of major oil companies
and got some surprising answers. Apparently, in some small markets, fuel oil
and diesel are identical, but sometimes and in high demand areas they are
different. They both use the same base stock but diesel is required to have
a certain quality and "cetane" level (equivalent to octane in gasoline) to
prevent damage to engines, furnace oil does not and (these are my own words
because they would not come out and admit it) since it only burns oil, they
can ship any old shit they have around that fits the basic specifications
for furnace oil --- this stuff they warned not to use in engines.
So there is a reason other than taxes, that diesel is more expensive than
fuel oil. You can use diesel fuel in a furnace, as it is the good stuff, but
don't use fuel oil in your engine, because it may damage the engine if they
are shipping the junk oil.
Pete C.
Little or no financial benefit as far as cost per gallon, but for folks
not on automatic delivery who aren't paying attention and let their
heating tank run dry, it's much cheaper to take two 5gal cans to the gas
station and use that to keep the furnace running until getting a normal
delivery the next day vs. an emergency delivery.
George
It is a little more complicated than that. Diesel fuel typically is sold
as "diesel fuel" not a particular # oil. If the diesel fuel is sold in a
freezing climate a certain percentage of #1 is mixed in to minimize fuel
gelling effects.
EXT
"George" <geo...@nospam.invalid> wrote in message
news:Up-dnbUzVITFADna...@comcast.com...
People who have outdoor fuel oil tanks have the same jelling problems as
vehicles, I would assume that winter heating oil in cold climates is
"adjusted" similarly to vehicle fuel.
In this area #1 heating oil is thin, probably mostly kerosene and used in
"heaters" that don't pump the oil into the combustion chamber, #2 heating
oil is thicker and used in fuel oil burners. Diesel oil is rated as #2
diesel for use in engines and #1 version of diesel oil is jet fuel grade.
Paul M. Eldridge
wrote:
>Pete C. wrote:
>>
>> Yes, essentially the only differences between the #2 heating oil in your
>> tank and the #2 diesel at the pump are the transportation fuel taxes you
>> pay at the pump and the red dye they put in the non taxed heating oil.
>> Otherwise they are interchangeable functionally, and the heating oil is
>> also known as "off road diesel" since it's legal to use in off road
>> equipment.
>
>It is a little more complicated than that. Diesel fuel typically is sold
>as "diesel fuel" not a particular # oil. If the diesel fuel is sold in a
>freezing climate a certain percentage of #1 is mixed in to minimize fuel
>gelling effects.
In addition, the sulphur content in home heating oil is significantly
higher than that of on-road diesel -- upwards of 5,000 ppm, whereas
ULSD is limited to 15 ppm or less. Marine diesel, or what is commonly
known as "Bunker C", is the dirtiest of all; it can reach as high as
45,000 ppm! [Something to think about when you book your next holiday
cruise.]
Cheers,
Paul
dpb
> Pete C. wrote:
>> "Dr. Hardcrab" wrote:
>>> <Plowbl...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>>> news:95eec58c-d763-41ce...@j20g2000hsi.googlegroups.com...
>>>
>>>> can i use diesel fuel in a home fuel oil furnace? if so wich diesel
>>>> can i use?
>>> Yes, or K-1 (kerosene).
>>>
>> Yes, essentially the only differences between the #2 heating oil in your
>> tank and the #2 diesel at the pump are the transportation fuel taxes you
>> pay at the pump and the red dye they put in the non taxed heating oil.
>> Otherwise they are interchangeable functionally, and the heating oil is
>> also known as "off road diesel" since it's legal to use in off road
>> equipment.
>
> It is a little more complicated than that. Diesel fuel typically is sold
> as "diesel fuel" not a particular # oil. If the diesel fuel is sold in a
> freezing climate a certain percentage of #1 is mixed in to minimize fuel
> gelling effects.
It's a whole lot more complicated than that... :)
"...multifunctional diesel fuel additive packages are built around ...
dispersant/detergent technology which meets the requirements for
...injector cleanliness. ... The detergent can be combined with other
functional components such as lubricity improver, cold flow improver,
deicer, cetane improver, corrosion inhibitor and/or demulsifier to
deliver additional benefits..."
W/O the additional lubricity specifically, no modern diesel engine will
last long and the injector-cleanliness requirements as well as S limits
on road-fuels are significant factors. Underneath, yes, it's "fuel
oil", but the engine-diesel is far more sophisticated a product.
--
George
> George wrote:
>> Pete C. wrote:
>>> "Dr. Hardcrab" wrote:
>>>> <Plowbl...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:95eec58c-d763-41ce...@j20g2000hsi.googlegroups.com...
>>>>
>>>>> can i use diesel fuel in a home fuel oil furnace? if so wich diesel
>>>>> can i use?
>>>> Yes, or K-1 (kerosene).
>>>>
> ...
>>> Yes, essentially the only differences between the #2 heating oil in your
>>> tank and the #2 diesel at the pump are the transportation fuel taxes you
>>> pay at the pump and the red dye they put in the non taxed heating oil.
>>> Otherwise they are interchangeable functionally, and the heating oil is
>>> also known as "off road diesel" since it's legal to use in off road
>>> equipment.
>>
>> It is a little more complicated than that. Diesel fuel typically is
>> sold as "diesel fuel" not a particular # oil. If the diesel fuel is
>> sold in a freezing climate a certain percentage of #1 is mixed in to
>> minimize fuel gelling effects.
>
> It's a whole lot more complicated than that... :)
Agree.
>
> "...multifunctional diesel fuel additive packages are built around ...
> dispersant/detergent technology which meets the requirements for
> ...injector cleanliness. ... The detergent can be combined with other
> functional components such as lubricity improver, cold flow improver,
> deicer, cetane improver, corrosion inhibitor and/or demulsifier to
> deliver additional benefits..."
>
> W/O the additional lubricity specifically, no modern diesel engine will
> last long and the injector-cleanliness requirements as well as S limits
> on road-fuels are significant factors. Underneath, yes, it's "fuel
> oil", but the engine-diesel is far more sophisticated a product.
>
> --
I didn't want to get into it that deep but what you wrote is accurate.
My buddy has a liquid fuels business and he often tells me of all of the
hassles of keeping track of all of this and the multiple trips his
trucks have to run for the separate products.
George
varies according to climate and isn't a specific oil # grade. #1 is
kerosene by definition. Jet fuel isn't diesel. In the case of commonly
used Jet A it is a very clear higher purity version of kerosene.
Antimicrobial and other agents are typically added during fueling.
At least around here they don't miz oils used for heating purposes. If
someone has an outside tank they will deliver #1 unless you specifically
tell them otherwise. If you have an underground or inside tank they will
deliver #2 unless you tell them otherwise. There are also other heavier
grades of fuel oil that are commonly used but they aren't used to heat
homes.
willshak
I have 2 - 5 gallon cans of kerosene. My local hardware store carries
kerosene. I average about 4 gallons a day in the winter, so that will
cover a couple of days.
I usually run out on a Sunday or a holiday. :-).
dpb
...
> Diesel is too 'dirty' to use in a furnace.
"Dirty" in what sense? It'll be far lower in S than fuel oil,
certainly, owing to the EPA reg's on motor fuels that don't apply to
heating fuel. Depending on grade of fuel oil, could be quite a lot
cleaner-burning, actually...
--
dpb
...
> I have a neighbor with oil heat. He has a diesel farm tractor. He
> always drains fuel from his tank for the tractor. It seems to run ok,
> but he's always complaining about gelling in severe cold weather. I'm
> not sure if it's because he uses that heating oil, or just a common
> problem with diesel engines in general. I know truckers are always
> adding stuff to their fuel in winter. This is one reason I wont buy a
> diesel tractor. I'll stick with gas.
Road diesel is sold w/ "winterizers" already blended (as well as a bunch
of other additives) so the gelling problem is typically already taken
care of. In general, it is rarely a problem until temperatures get
extremely low.
I also farm and would never even think of using a non-engine-specific
fuel in a $100K+ tractor engine -- an old clunker might be something
else again, but a modern diesel engine requires a quality, blended fuel,
especially the lubricity requirements for any hope of longevity under
hard use.
--
dpb
...
> I never got a chance to analyze either in a lab. Blame Trane for my answer.
I'm having a hard time figuring what their answer would be based on,
specifically...granted, the engine-fuel additives are way overkill for a
boiler burner, but in general the detergents and so on would help clean
burner tips as they do injectors, the EPA requirements on S, etc., are
designed for reducing emissions, etc. That they would undoubtedly be
more effective in a higher performance application I agree, but still
can't see it being of any significant difference--just extra $$ up the
flue, in general...
--
Dr. Hardcrab
Correct. That was my point too.
Back when I did service work, if you were our cutomer and you ran out during
the middle of the night, *I* would show up with two 5 gallon cans of either
deisel or K1 (kerosene).......
Dr. Hardcrab
"Meat Plow" <me...@petitmorte.net> wrote in message
news:1jv395....@news.alt.net...
Not quite. Now the other way around (using #2 heating oil in a diesel car)
might be too dirty.
Twayne
Kerosene is the general equivalent of #1 fuel oil, also. I use the #1
from my furnace all the time to run my Reddy heater.
--
Regards,
Twayne
OO0 is a GREAT MS Office replacement
www.openoffice.org
Please respond to the newsgroup, not to
my e-mail, so that all may benefit. I do not
always respond to newsgroup e-mails.
Twayne
> answer.
Then you need to get a mind of your own and stop parroting. Way too
much of that around here lately and much of it is misinformation.
Pete C.
The same applies to heating oil sold in the same climate since some
folks have outdoor above ground oil tanks just as vulnerable to gelling
as a vehicle.
S. Barker
s
Floyd L. Davidson
>heating oil IS #1 diesel.
Not necessarily. Sometimes it's #2 diesel. Sometimes
it's a mix of the two. And sometimes it's #2 with
additives to keep it from getting thick a colder temps.
(One effect of the above is that if you buy heating oil
in bulk it is *essential* to make sure the supplier is
aware that fuel bought in the summer will be stored and
used in the winter. Otherwise it is possible to get a
great deal on "summer grade" stove oil, and have a tank
full of jelly come cold weather.)
Moreover, Both #1 and #2 "diesel" are regionally
defined, with each refinery deciding exactly what they
will sell under those names.
--
Floyd L. Davidson <http://www.apaflo.com/floyd_davidson>
Ukpeagvik (Barrow, Alaska) fl...@apaflo.com
Floyd L. Davidson
>On Sat, 02 Feb 2008 20:54:48 -0900, fl...@apaflo.com (Floyd L.
>Davidson) wrote:
>
>>(One effect of the above is that if you buy heating oil
>>in bulk it is *essential* to make sure the supplier is
>>aware that fuel bought in the summer will be stored and
>>used in the winter. Otherwise it is possible to get a
>>great deal on "summer grade" stove oil, and have a tank
>>full of jelly come cold weather.)
>
>summer? Anyone working for an oil supplier company, should know it's
>for winter use........ Otherwise they need to get another job, or
>apply for mental health care.....
I'm sure you meant that kindly, but it *is* hilariously
ignorant!
Summers in some places continue to require heat on many,
though probably not all, days. Plus, if you order a 3
month supply of stove oil in a place like Fairbanks
Alaska, it might be 95F on the day you order it in
August, but it might be -45F on the day in November when
the next order is delivered.
On the other hand, in many locations around Alaska the
order is place before the end of July, arrives in August
or September... and is a 1 year supply.
Pete C.
Some folks also like to have hot water as well, and if they heat the
house with oil they usually also heat the hot water with oil.
George
No
Edwin Pawlowski
"S. Barker" <ichase...@coldmail.com> wrote in message
news:7IidnZxrK_PJzDja...@giganews.com...
> heating oil IS #1 diesel.
>
> s
Not here in CT. It is #2
George
> On Sat, 02 Feb 2008 20:54:48 -0900, fl...@apaflo.com (Floyd L.
> Davidson) wrote:
>
>> in bulk it is *essential* to make sure the supplier is
>> aware that fuel bought in the summer will be stored and
>> used in the winter. Otherwise it is possible to get a
>> great deal on "summer grade" stove oil, and have a tank
>> full of jelly come cold weather.)
>
> summer? Anyone working for an oil supplier company, should know it's
> for winter use........ Otherwise they need to get another job, or
> apply for mental health care.....
Don't get out much? What about homes, restaurants or hotels that have
oil fired water heaters?
George
It is done much differently. They don't blend the oil and offer "heating
oil" except at point of delivery if that is what you specify. They sell
#1 or #2 for home use and if they have never delivered to you they will
ask if you have an outside tank. If so they will flag your account as
requiring #1.
Banty
Right. Either tankless coil or indirect tank.
Banty
Edwin Pawlowski
"George" <geo...@nospam.invalid> wrote in message
> oil" except at point of delivery if that is what you specify. They sell #1
> or #2 for home use and if they have never delivered to you they will ask
> if you have an outside tank. If so they will flag your account as
> requiring #1.
Or they put in an additive for the #2. Many places around here do not do
#1
Pete C.
Or oil fired standalone water heater, for a bit better overall
efficiency.
Paul M. Eldridge
wrote:
>Some folks also like to have hot water as well, and if they heat the
>house with oil they usually also heat the hot water with oil.
Exactly. Most homes in our neighbourhood are heated with oil-fired
boilers equipped with internal DHW coils, or in some cases indirect
hot water tanks. In homes with forced air heating systems, a stand
alone oil-fired water heater is commonly used -- older homes with
smaller electrical services in particular.
We use between 450 and 500 litres of heating oil each year for DHW
purposes; a little over a litre a day during the summer months when
inlet temperatures are higher and one and a half litres in winter when
supply temperatures are lower, additional loads of laundry are run
(larger, bulkier and heavier clothing) and longer (and hotter) showers
are preferred. This is a trivial amount of oil compared to most
households, but it represents over half of our total consumption, so
it's the logical place to target if we want to further reduce our
demand [at this point, we're down to roughly 830 litres or 220
gallons/year... the previous homeowners used over 5,700!].
I haven't pulled the trigger as yet, but I'm thinking of adding a Nyle
heat pump to take over much of the work of the boiler, assuming it's
compatible with our SuperStor Ultra tank.
For information on the Nyle heat pump, see:
http://www.nyletherm.com/waterheating.htm
Right now, I can shoot down to Bangor and throw one in the back of the
Chrysler for a little over $800.00 CDN. With an average COP of 2.0,
it would cut our water heating costs in half, plus minimize, or even
eliminate, the need to run the dehumidifier during the summer months.
Between May and September, our dehumidifier averages between 5 and 10
kWh/day, so the Nyle could assume full responsibility for this service
and, in the process, provide us with free hot water. Even with our
modest requirements, factoring in our dehumidifier savings should
reduce our simple payback to just under three years.
Cheers,
Paul
S. Barker
it's still diesel. And i doubt your's is #2 in that climate.
s
"Edwin Pawlowski" <e...@snet.net> wrote in message
news:w3kpj.10471$hI1....@nlpi061.nbdc.sbc.com...
Paul M. Eldridge
<ichase...@coldmail.com> wrote:
>#1, #2, the question was "can i use diesel in home heating". #1. or #2.
>it's still diesel. And i doubt your's is #2 in that climate.
>
>s
Our local dealers (Halifax, N.S.) stopped offering #1 three or four
years ago and this caused problems for folks with oil stoves/space
heaters; in most cases, a simple carburetor adjustment did the trick,
but in a few instances, homeowners were completely out of luck.
Interestingly, low sulphur heating oil may offer superior
low-temperature performance; to whit:
".... Don Allen, Jr., President of E.T. Lawson, says his technicians
are discovering clear evidence that the amount of scaling in low
sulfur-burning furnaces is comparatively less than systems used with
regular #2 oil. The corporation is so convinced of low sulfur oil
advantages that it guarantees that the oil will not gel, wax, ice, or
sludge; otherwise, the company promises to clean the entire heating
system for free and refund the cost of the tune-up...."
Source:
http://www.americanoilinvestments.com/articles/Oil-Gas-Investments_4658.html
Cheers,
Paul
Edwin Pawlowski
> #1, #2, the question was "can i use diesel in home heating". #1. or #2.
> it's still diesel. And i doubt your's is #2 in that climate.
>
Delivery slip says #2
When I was in Italy it was common to use diesel in home heating burners.
Sells for the same high price as heating oil. In mild climates people can
buy five or ten gallons at a time that way.
Pete C.
>
> #1, #2, the question was "can i use diesel in home heating". #1. or #2.
> it's still diesel. And i doubt your's is #2 in that climate.
All my meter slips for heating oil delivery in northwest CT list "#2
Fuel" in the product field.
Twayne
>> in bulk it is *essential* to make sure the supplier is
>> aware that fuel bought in the summer will be stored and
>> used in the winter. Otherwise it is possible to get a
>> great deal on "summer grade" stove oil, and have a tank
>> full of jelly come cold weather.)
>
> summer? Anyone working for an oil supplier company, should know it's
> for winter use........ Otherwise they need to get another job, or
> apply for mental health care.....
My water heater is oil fired, thank you.
Stormin Mormon
that the water heater didn't work dependably, so they replaced it. Instead
of having the oil tank filled. They were idiots, for sure. I poured a lot of
five galon cans of diesel or kero into their tank for a while.
--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.
"Dr. Hardcrab" <drhar...@hotmail.SPAMcom> wrote in message
news:Qs_oj.101$U12.58@trnddc06...
Stormin Mormon
doesn't yet know how to check the gages. Ran out of propane on Saturday, and
called for fuel. The truck got there Thursday. She got to live in one room
with electric heater those couple days.
--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.
"Pete C." <aux3....@snet.net> wrote in message
news:47A499D0...@snet.net...
Red Green
4ax.com:
> On Sat, 02 Feb 2008 20:54:48 -0900, fl...@apaflo.com (Floyd L.
> Davidson) wrote:
>
>>(One effect of the above is that if you buy heating oil
>>in bulk it is *essential* to make sure the supplier is
>>aware that fuel bought in the summer will be stored and
>>used in the winter. Otherwise it is possible to get a
>>great deal on "summer grade" stove oil, and have a tank
>>full of jelly come cold weather.)
>
> While this makes sense, why would anyone use heating oil in the
> summer? Anyone working for an oil supplier company, should know it's
> for winter use........ Otherwise they need to get another job, or
> apply for mental health care.....
You should try a hot water shower sometime. Kinda nice.
Chris Lewis
> I think you may be mixing a few terms. "Diesel oil" is a product that
> varies according to climate and isn't a specific oil # grade. #1 is
> kerosene by definition.
At the refinery, there's rather more than that - I had a summer job at
a refinery testing the raw feeds straight off the distillation and cracker
units. At the one I worked, they had "heavy" and "light", in diesel,
kerosene, naptha and gasoline - and there was some considerable
crossover and confusion about nomenclature (the specs are what
matter not what they call it) especially at the gasoline end.
The light and heavy kerosenes/diesels/napthas were pretty consistent
straight off the units and were mixed in relatively fixed proportions
to make each of the desired final products with their own naming
conventions (#1 diesel etc).
The light and heavy gasolines were all over the map (some lights were
so light they'd boil in your hand from skin temperature alone), and the
results of mixing had to be tightly monitored to attain the proper
properties. Then of course there's all the stuff about octane ratings...
--
Chris Lewis,
Age and Treachery will Triumph over Youth and Skill
It's not just anyone who gets a Starship Cruiser class named after them.
Chris Lewis
> I have a neighbor with oil heat. He has a diesel farm tractor. He
> always drains fuel from his tank for the tractor. It seems to run ok,
> but he's always complaining about gelling in severe cold weather. I'm
> not sure if it's because he uses that heating oil, or just a common
> problem with diesel engines in general. I know truckers are always
> adding stuff to their fuel in winter. This is one reason I wont buy a
> diesel tractor. I'll stick with gas.
It's a common issue with diesels. You just have to know about it.
Regular "summer weight" diesel begins to gell/freeze at IIRC,
a few degrees _above_ zero F. "Winter weight" goes to at least -35F.
A oil heat tank that's indoors, buried, or fairly well sheltered will
freeze a lot later than a fuel tank suspended in the wind like in a
tractor. The long and the short of it is that you have to pay more
attention to what _weight_ of diesel you're using in a tractor or
truck than in a oil heating tank in the winter.
Decent modern diesel engines don't care too much about temperature
_provided_ you're using the right weight for the season.
Heck, the Polaris Mine (Little Ellsmere Island, northernmost mine
_ever_ built) used diesel vehicles _exclusively_. Toyota diesel
pickups. Never shut them off unless they were in the garage for
an oil change ;-)
Chris Lewis
> In addition, the sulphur content in home heating oil is significantly
> higher than that of on-road diesel -- upwards of 5,000 ppm, whereas
> ULSD is limited to 15 ppm or less. Marine diesel, or what is commonly
> known as "Bunker C", is the dirtiest of all; it can reach as high as
> 45,000 ppm! [Something to think about when you book your next holiday
> cruise.]
As I recall, Bunker C is also considerably heavier than regular diesel
fuel. Even at only modest temperatures, it has to be preheated to
get it to flow.
Paul M. Eldridge
Lewis) wrote:
>According to Paul M. Eldridge <paul.e...@ns.sympatico.ca>:
>
>> In addition, the sulphur content in home heating oil is significantly
>> higher than that of on-road diesel -- upwards of 5,000 ppm, whereas
>> ULSD is limited to 15 ppm or less. Marine diesel, or what is commonly
>> known as "Bunker C", is the dirtiest of all; it can reach as high as
>> 45,000 ppm! [Something to think about when you book your next holiday
>> cruise.]
>
>As I recall, Bunker C is also considerably heavier than regular diesel
>fuel. Even at only modest temperatures, it has to be preheated to
>get it to flow.
I've never laid eyes on the stuff myself, but its been described to me
as the scrapings from the bottom of the barrel.... with a viscosity
not unlike that of asphalt. ;-)
Cheers,
Paul
Edwin Pawlowski
"Paul M. Eldridge" <paul.e...@ns.sympatico.ca> wrote in message
>>
>>As I recall, Bunker C is also considerably heavier than regular diesel
>>fuel. Even at only modest temperatures, it has to be preheated to
>>get it to flow.
>
> I've never laid eyes on the stuff myself, but its been described to me
> as the scrapings from the bottom of the barrel.... with a viscosity
> not unlike that of asphalt. ;-)
>
> Cheers,
> Paul
We used to burn it where I worked years ago. It had to be delivered hot
(IIRC, about 125) in order to drain from the tanker truck. We'd start the
boilers on #2 oil and a steam probe from the boiler into an intermediate
tank heated it to a pumpable oil. Another pump circulated that back into
the 10,000 gallon #6 tank to keep it warm. More difficult to burn, it was
much cheaper to buy and has a higher Btu per gallon compared to #2.
Paul M. Eldridge
wrote:
Hi Edwin,
The major hospitals and universities in downtown Halifax burn Bunker
C, as does the Tuft's Cove GS located on the Dartmouth side of the
harbour. Our natural gas distributor is currently extending its
pipeline into the downtown core to serve these loads, so thankfully, a
little less of this crap will make its way up the stack.
Unfortunately, the situation with Nova Scotia Power wouldn't likely
change anytime soon, as the utility prefers to sell off its allotment
of natural gas to New England and thereby pocket the difference in the
cost of these two fuels (personally, I wouldn't mind paying a little
more for cleaner air, but obviously opinions differ).
Cheers,
Paul
Chris Lewis
> On Tue, 05 Feb 2008 21:03:10 -0000, cle...@nortelnetworks.com (Chris
> Lewis) wrote:
> >According to Paul M. Eldridge <paul.e...@ns.sympatico.ca>:
> >
> >> In addition, the sulphur content in home heating oil is significantly
> >> higher than that of on-road diesel -- upwards of 5,000 ppm, whereas
> >> ULSD is limited to 15 ppm or less. Marine diesel, or what is commonly
> >> known as "Bunker C", is the dirtiest of all; it can reach as high as
> >> 45,000 ppm! [Something to think about when you book your next holiday
> >> cruise.]
> >As I recall, Bunker C is also considerably heavier than regular diesel
> >fuel. Even at only modest temperatures, it has to be preheated to
> >get it to flow.
> I've never laid eyes on the stuff myself, but its been described to me
> as the scrapings from the bottom of the barrel.... with a viscosity
> not unlike that of asphalt. ;-)
I had a summer job in an oil refinery, testing products in the lab.
I don't think that refinery produced any bunker C, it all either
went into asphalt (at the time, this refinery produced 85% of Ontario's
road building asphalt, plus specialty asphalts/tars) or further processing
for lube oil base stocks (at the time the most advanced lube production
facility in North America).
Harry K
> According to Paul M. Eldridge <paul.eldri...@ns.sympatico.ca>:> > >According to Paul M. Eldridge <paul.eldri...@ns.sympatico.ca>:
>
> > >> In addition, the sulphur content in home heating oil is significantly
> > >> higher than that of on-road diesel -- upwards of 5,000 ppm, whereas
> > >> ULSD is limited to 15 ppm or less. Marine diesel, or what is commonly
> > >> known as "Bunker C", is the dirtiest of all; it can reach as high as
> > >> 45,000 ppm! [Something to think about when you book your next holiday
> > >> cruise.]
> > >As I recall, Bunker C is also considerably heavier than regular diesel
> > >fuel. Even at only modest temperatures, it has to be preheated to
> > >get it to flow.
> > I've never laid eyes on the stuff myself, but its been described to me
> > as the scrapings from the bottom of the barrel.... with a viscosity
> > not unlike that of asphalt. ;-)
>
> I had a summer job in an oil refinery, testing products in the lab.
> I don't think that refinery produced any bunker C, it all either
> went into asphalt (at the time, this refinery produced 85% of Ontario's
> road building asphalt, plus specialty asphalts/tars) or further processing
> for lube oil base stocks (at the time the most advanced lube production
> facility in North America).
> --
> Chris Lewis,
>
> Age and Treachery will Triumph over Youth and Skill
>
> - Show quoted text -
Yep, You ain't a gonna see bunker C being delivered to homes. Any
place that uses it (really big installations or ships) heats it before
use.
Harry K
nerys
http://www.homeownershub.com/maintenance/diesel-fuel-in-a-home-fuel-oil-furnace-285510-.htm
nerys wrote:
Around here (Egg Harbor Nj)
Home Heating oil is $2.90 a gallon 100 gallon minimum plus delivery charge.
Diesel right down the street is $2.95
Off Road Diesel 1 mile down the road is $2.70
Diesel at same station $2.88
Wanna guess which I use in my heater? yes I have 2 5 gallon gas cans just
for filling my tank.
here diesel has 64 cents of road tax added to it per gallon.
I want some heating oil company to explain to me why their oil is not 64
cents cheaper than diesel when they are precisely the same thing.
I would also love to know why those gas stations are allowed to rape you
for off road diesel as THAT ALSO should be 64 cents cheaper than the price
of diesel.
Grrr makes me so mad
=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Blattus_Slaf wrote:
> lp13-30 wrote:
>> Right now Diesel is about $3.249 at the pump. Several people have
>> posted
>> in here in the last few days about heating oil being almost
>> exactly the
>> same price, so it looks like there would be no benefit in using
>> Diesel
>> in a heating system, or heating oil in a Diesel vehicle, from a
>> cost
>> standpoint. Larry
>>
>> Here diesel is $3.59 and fuel oil is that minus the taxes, around $3.20
> Fuel oil is always cheaper than diesel because it is not taxed.
-------------------------------------
jeff_wisnia
I'm pretty sure that here in Taxachusetts there's some kind of
flourescent dye added to heating oil which can be spotted when a diesel
road vehicle is inspected if the owners have been "cheating" the tax man
by running it on heating oil..
Jeff
--
Jeffry Wisnia
(W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)
The speed of light is 1.8*10e12 furlongs per fortnight.
Pete C.
jeff_wisnia wrote:
>
> I'm pretty sure that here in Taxachusetts there's some kind of
> flourescent dye added to heating oil which can be spotted when a diesel
> road vehicle is inspected if the owners have been "cheating" the tax man
> by running it on heating oil..
Not fluorescent, just red dye and it's the same across the US. Heating
oil / off-road diesel gets red dye to indicate it is not taxed and not
allowed to be used in on-road vehicles, and on-road diesel is taxed and
has no dye (clear to yellow). Other than the tax and dye, they are
essentially both #2 diesel fuel, and the formula on both is adjusted in
the winter in colder areas to reduce gelling.
Steve Barker
That "store bought" fuel may not wanna flow when it's 20 below. Heating
oil is straight #1 diesel. You won't find that at the pump. And the
mix you do find at the pump will not burn as hot and may cost you by
using more and causing excessive build ups in the furnace.
--
Steve Barker
remove the "not" from my address to email
Steve Barker
Yes, any offroad (untaxed) diesel fuel is dyed red.
Smitty Two
jeff_wisnia <jwisnia...@conversent.net> wrote:
<snip>
Every time one of you legitimate a.h.r. people responds to the spam site
posters, you strengthen their position, and weaken a.h.r. Many or most
of the posts are shills. Many of the rest are spam. They aren't doing
anyone a service by mirroring usenet, and you're sabotaging us by
engaging them.
Pete C.
Steve Barker wrote:
>
> That "store bought" fuel may not wanna flow when it's 20 below. Heating
> oil is straight #1 diesel.
Heating oil is #2 diesel, not #1 (Kerosene). I have 34 years of
experience with oil heat to confirm that.
> You won't find that at the pump.
Yes, actually you will. Kerosene #1 pumps are relatively common.
> And the
> mix you do find at the pump will not burn as hot and may cost you by
> using more and causing excessive build ups in the furnace.
Sorry, you are entirely incorrect. #2 fuel oil and #2 diesel are exactly
the same other than the red dye and taxes, #1 kerosene is always the
same and has a little less BTU content per gal then #2, but that's about
it. None of them will cause any sort of buildup any different than your
normal heating oil.
EXT
Actually, you are wrong, in some areas. I contacted a number of oil
companies regarding using home heating oil in a standby generator. The
answers that I got back was that in some areas where they don't have enough
volume to justify separate products they use standard diesel fuel for both.
In other areas where there is a large demand for both products, they are
different products. Diesel fuel for engines has higher standards and
specifications to meet, especially in the cetane rating (Similar to octane
rating in gasoline) as the engine must be protected for long life. In these
areas the heating oil is a low grade product as it is only intended to burn
in a furnace, so they will sell you some poor quality crap that is not as
refined. So diesel will be fine for your furnace, but heating oil may damage
your engine. Red dye is added to heating oil and to off-road diesel for use
in farm tractors and/or construction equipment, and this is what I ordered
for my standby generator.
Steve Barker
i WASN'T going to try to explain it to him. after all, he does have
twenty seven some years experience jockeying fuel around. (like that
makes him an expert).
George
Actually they haven't been since sometime in the 1990s when low sulfur
diesel (500ppm) was mandated. Then about 3 years ago ULSD (15ppm
sulfur) was mandated for on road diesel fuel. My buddy has a liquid
fuels business and they try to dedicate one truck for hauling it because
if you haul say #2 heating oil the residual can be enough to raise the
sulfur content beyond the ULSD spec.
Pete C.
I'm not sure where those areas may be. I lived in CT where oil heat is
the norm for 34 years and all the area suppliers supplied #2 that was
the same as the on-road #2 other than the taxes and dye. Certainly more
than enough demand there for separate products is there were such a
thing. Now some big commercial buildings did use lower grades of fuel,
but those also have other grade numbers, i.e. #4, not #2.
Pete C.
Please note exactly where in the US the home heating oil is normally
something other than #2. I lived 34 Years in CT where oil heat is the
norm and every area supplier supplied #2 that was the same as the
on-road #2 other than taxes and dye. Only big commercial buildings used
lower grade fuel and those have other grade numbers like #4.
ronyaker
http://www.homeownershub.com/maintenance/diesel-fuel-in-a-home-fuel-oil-furnace-285510-.htm
ronyaker wrote:
lp13-30 wrote:
> Right now Diesel is about $3.249 at the pump. Several people have posted
> in here in the last few days about heating oil being almost exactly the
> same price, so it looks like there would be no benefit in using Diesel
> in a heating system, or heating oil in a Diesel vehicle, from a cost
> standpoint. Larry
-------------------------------------
you can sidestep the taxes by buying off-road diesel. same as no. 2 diesel
i'm told (has the same red dye) but no sales tax. today i got 100 gallons
at $2.599, compared to 3.099 for road fuel (no dye). i did this after i
called local fuel distributor who was charging 2.799 a gallon, plus sales
tax (came to 305, or almost the same as road-priced fuel). in other words,
the delivery guy hits you for about 40cents per gallon as a delivery fee.
i use two 55-gallon drums which i got for free from a jiffy-lube shop,
strapped to a 6x10 trailer. i use a manual-crank pump which i got for
about $35 at harbor freight. it helps that i live close to a rural
township with farmers around who need this for their tractors and such.
may be harder to find in more-urban areas. final result: $50 savings
plus/minus, for about an hour's effort.
ronyaker
http://www.homeownershub.com/maintenance/diesel-fuel-in-a-home-fuel-oil-furnace-285510-.htm
ronyaker wrote:
Joseph Meehan wrote:
> Why, it will cost more. ULSD would be the product to use, but why
> pay
> road taxes when you can buy heating oil for less? Some diesel owners
> buy
> heating oil just to avoid the road tax and risk some hefty fines if
> they are
> found out.
-------------------------------------
offroad diesel is about 55 cents cheaper than road fuel in my state, also
doesn't pick up sales tax or delivery surcharge that the oil guys hits you
with. i d.i.y. mine for about $50 savings per 100 gallons, takes about an
hour, 2 55-gal drums and a handcrank pump.
petersc...@gmail.com
lucyinv...@gmail.com
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