Inspection and oil change

[Thomas]

97.99?
Steep?
2004 xterra.
Steve Shannon tire, PA.
Nothing needed fixing.

[hub...@ccanoemail.ca]

On Sun, 21 Jun 2020 13:48:14 -0700 (PDT), Thomas <cano...@gmail.com>
wrote:

Define " inspection " ...

... check tires & fluid levels & quick visual ?
... pull 4 wheels and inspect brakes ?

... bit of a difference yes ?

John T.

[Thomas]

Do not know. Drop off, 4 hours later picked up.

[Ed Pawlowski]

Depends how many quarts and what kind of oil. I've heard of people
spending that just for oil change.

[hub...@ccanoemail.ca]

>>>97.99?
>>>Steep?
>>>2004 xterra.
>>>Steve Shannon tire, PA.
>>>Nothing needed fixing.


>>Define " inspection " ...
>>... check tires & fluid levels & quick visual ?
>>... pull 4 wheels and inspect brakes ?
>>... bit of a difference yes ?
>> John T.

>Do not know. Drop off, 4 hours later picked up.

The better garages will give you a ticky-box check-list
when you pick up the car - showing what they inspected -
noting & talking to you about any problems found -
- often having done a detailed repair estimate.
My Kia dealership oil changes includes checking tires ;
fluid levels and visual inspection. ~ $ 54. Canadian
parts, labour, taxes all in. They will even give it a quick
wash-down if needed - no charge.
John T.

[Ed Pawlowski]

State inspection in PA. Pull two wheels to check brakes, exhaust
system, ball joints, etc. Should take about 20 minutes.

[hub...@ccanoemail.ca]

No road test ?
... there are "inspections" and there are
mandated inspections with paperwork ...
The OP seems to only knows what it cost him ..
... with no idea what was done.
John T.

[Goober]

My stealership just pencil whips it.

Lazy slugs are supposed to check tire pressure at the nnnn mile intervals but turns out they don't bother to check the spare in the trunk.

Since they don't do the simple easy stuff, I doubt they do the stuff that requires effort.  Maybe that's extra?

[Jim Joyce]

I wait for the $9.99 coupon to roll around. If I miss it, there's always a
$14.99 coupon available.

[micky]

In alt.home.repair, on Sun, 21 Jun 2020 14:29:05 -0700 (PDT), Thomas

<cano...@gmail.com> wrote:

>Do not know. Drop off, 4 hours later picked up.

Did you agree on a price first?

[micky]

In alt.home.repair, on Sun, 21 Jun 2020 17:57:00 -0400,

A wash does not make them better. And of course there's a charge for
it, it'sjust embedded in the price. Other than that, I agree with you.

> John T.

[micky]

In alt.home.repair, on Sun, 21 Jun 2020 18:12:05 -0400,

hub...@ccanoemail.ca wrote:

>On Sun, 21 Jun 2020 17:55:07 -0400, Ed Pawlowski <e...@snet.xxx> wrote:
>
>>On 6/21/2020 5:24 PM, hub...@ccanoemail.ca wrote:
>>> On Sun, 21 Jun 2020 13:48:14 -0700 (PDT), Thomas <cano...@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> 97.99?
>>>> Steep?
>>>> 2004 xterra.
>>>> Steve Shannon tire, PA.
>>>> Nothing needed fixing.
>>>
>>>
>>> Define " inspection " ...
>>>
>>> ... check tires & fluid levels & quick visual ?
>>> ... pull 4 wheels and inspect brakes ?
>>>
>>> ... bit of a difference yes ?
>>>
>>> John T.
>>>
>>
>>State inspection in PA. Pull two wheels to check brakes, exhaust
>>system, ball joints, etc. Should take about 20 minutes.
>
>
> No road test ?

A road test is not required in Pa. The owner drives the car. He can
test it.

[hub...@ccanoemail.ca]

>>>>
>>>>> 97.99?
>>>>> Steep?
>>>>> 2004 xterra.
>>>>> Steve Shannon tire, PA.
>>>>> Nothing needed fixing.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Define " inspection " ...
>>>> ... check tires & fluid levels & quick visual ?
>>>> ... pull 4 wheels and inspect brakes ?
>>>> ... bit of a difference yes ?
>>>> John T.
>>>>
>>>
>>>State inspection in PA. Pull two wheels to check brakes, exhaust
>>>system, ball joints, etc. Should take about 20 minutes.
>>
>>
>> No road test ?

>>... there are "inspections" and there are
>>mandated inspections with paperwork ...
>>The OP seems to only knows what it cost him ..
>> ... with no idea what was done.
>> John T

>
>A road test is not required in Pa. The owner drives the car. He can
>test it.
>
.

... you would know .. :-)

http://www.dot.state.pa.us/Public/DVSPubsForms/BMV/BMV%20Manuals/Pub_45%20Inspections%20Regulations/PUB-45.pdf

but just in case - read page 42 of 140.

John T.

[micky]

In alt.home.repair, on Sun, 21 Jun 2020 20:09:51 -0400,

Firefox not working now, but I assume it says road test. My car was
licensed in Pa. unti about 1985 and inspected there, and afaik no one
ever gave it a road test. But I guess things have changed. Sorry.

>John T.

[Ed Pawlowski]

You do have quite a sense of humor. I lived in PA for 36 years and with
three cars in the family we had plenty of inspections. The only road
test was pulling the car from the parking lot to the garage.

There may be a few legitimate garages but very few. Many never
inspected anything but outwardly visible like lights. Other inspected
very little but would tell you needed a new drag link or idler arm.
Sometimes they even replaced it.

I chose my inspection stations carefully. I went to Frank. If Frank
had to pull a wheel he would probably collapse and die. Checking brakes
was pushing the pedal while scraping off the old sticker. He did check
lights though because if he was being watched, that would be obvious to
an observer but his shop was invisible from the street.

[Clare Snyder]

On Sun, 21 Jun 2020 17:26:31 -0500, Jim Joyce <no...@none.invalid>
wrote:

My oil changes on the Taurus cost me over $50 doing them myself and
buying the oil on special - synthetic oil with premium filter. The
ranger is a little less - takes 2 liters less oil - and the Sorento is
about the same as the ranger - the filter costs a wee bit more. Put
half an hour of labour on at a $90 per basis and that price doesn't
look too bad - if they are using synthetic it's actually a REALLY good
deal.

[Hawk]

On 6/21/2020 4:48 PM, Thomas wrote:
> 97.99?
> Steep?

Yep.

> 2004 xterra.
> Steve Shannon tire, PA.
> Nothing needed fixing.
>

The main reason I always wrench on my own vehicles

[Jim Joyce]

On Sun, 21 Jun 2020 21:45:51 -0400, Clare Snyder <cl...@snyder.on.ca>

I'm never surprised when they offer to replace the air filter, the cabin
air filter, and the wiper blades every time I go in. They have to make
money somewhere.

[Arlen Holder]

On Sun, 21 Jun 2020 21:45:51 -0400, Clare Snyder wrote:

>>I wait for the $9.99 coupon to roll around. If I miss it, there's always a
>>$14.99 coupon available.
> My oil changes on the Taurus cost me over $50 doing them myself and
> buying the oil on special - synthetic oil with premium filter. The
> ranger is a little less - takes 2 liters less oil - and the Sorento is
> about the same as the ranger - the filter costs a wee bit more. Put
> half an hour of labour on at a $90 per basis and that price doesn't
> look too bad - if they are using synthetic it's actually a REALLY good
> deal.

My oil changes on the bimmer are similar to Clare's oil changes, where the
equivalent shop rate in the Silicon Valley is never below a hundred and as
high as two hundred an hour by way of comparison to home DIY.

The time to DIY isn't an issue since you take your sweet time, and while
I've sucked out the oil from the top, long ago I gave up on that since
draining is so trivial:
a. Drive up on ramps (or chock the rear and jack the front)
b. Loosen the oil cap & remove the hollow oil pan bolt & drain
c. While draining, go topside & replace the filter cartridge & o-ring

In general, I take an hour or two, since I check other things while I'm
there, and I often put the care on four jack stands to rotate the tires and
check the brakes, fluids, serpentine belt, and the damn plastic cooling
system parts for telltale white deposits indicating leaks, etc.

The time doesn't matter, and the cost is negligible.

I used to buy the Costco synthethic case for around $28 (now around $35 or
so on sale) but I then figured dino juice, replaced at standard intervals,
is just as good as synthetic for such an old engine (couple hundred thou)
so now that's about, oh, around one to two dollars a quart (I forget) at
Costco for their Chevron-branded dino juice.

The filters are mail order, Mann (or Hengst or Mahle), at less than five
bucks per filter (depending on the sale), where the filter comes with the
o-ring but not the o-ring at the oil dipstick nor the hollow drain bolt
gasket.

Disposal is easy as O'Reilly's will take back the used oil & filter for
free, but I wonder, from a home-repair perspective, if the wooden
RR-tie-style steps (pre-treated as I see the dashes all about but they're
decades old and bone dry from the California sun) would benefit from an oil
soak?

If the oil soak stays within the decades-old railroad-tie style steps, do
you see any harm to the environment of simply dumping the used motor oil on
the railroad ties, and, if none, do you see any benefit (they're bone dry).
--
Usenet is a wonderfully helpful public potluck discussion of added value.

[Arlen Holder]

On Sun, 21 Jun 2020 21:17:23 -0500, Jim Joyce wrote:

> I'm never surprised when they offer to replace the air filter, the cabin
> air filter, and the wiper blades every time I go in. They have to make
> money somewhere.

I don't disagree, where it makes sense that someone who doesn't change his
own oil likely doesn't know enough to know _what_ to check for by way of
the standard maintenance schedule.

Given the shop likely makes money on the "inspection", I always wonder why
people _pay_ for that inspection, since, I think, many shops must be giving
it away (so to speak) for free.

Don't they?

BTW, adding "rec.autos.tech", so here's the URL to the a.h.r thread:
<https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/alt.home.repair/sChKzO3h5rg>

[rbowman]

Yeah, for a Detroit 60 diesel that takes 10 gallons of Rotella...

[Arlen Holder]

On Sun, 21 Jun 2020 17:26:31 -0500, Jim Joyce wrote:

>>Depends how many quarts and what kind of oil. I've heard of people
>>spending that just for oil change.
>
> I wait for the $9.99 coupon to roll around. If I miss it, there's always a
> $14.99 coupon available.

Wow. That seems inexpensive for sure. What locale do you live in.

I do my own oil changes, where, oh, assuming on average a typical car is
five or six quarts at, oh, what, maybe 2 bucks or so a quart, that's a
dozen dollars just for the oil alone.

Given I don't know what repairs cost (I do my own DIY repairs) I just
googled for prices in the Silicon Valley for a typical oil change.
o <https://duckduckgo.com/?q=typical+prices+oil+change+san+jose>

First hit:
o <https://www.groupon.com/local/san-jose/oil-change>
Sale prices were as low as $17 but most in the 20s, up to over $40.

Second hit (I hate the "dollars off" prices - which are meaningless):
o <https://oilstopinc.com/oil-change-san-jose/>
Five dollars off (off of what?).
"FREE Beverage, FREE WiFi,FREE between service topoffs"

Third hit:
o <https://www.yourmechanic.com/services/change-oil-and-filter/?city=san-jose-ca>
Price range for all vehicles = $92.34 to $157.60

Notice that the "typical" price is astronomical, while the "sale" price
seems pretty reasonable (given the oil itself costs about twelve bucks or
so and the shop rate, in San Jose, is oh, something like $100 to $200/hour
(AFAICR).
--
BTW, adding "rec.autos.tech" where this is the URL to the original thread:
<https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/alt.home.repair/sChKzO3h5rg>

[Clare Snyder]

On Sun, 21 Jun 2020 21:17:23 -0500, Jim Joyce <no...@none.invalid>

And I still have not changed my air filter on the ranger in 8 years -
or the serpentine belt in 7

[Jim Joyce]

On Mon, 22 Jun 2020 04:37:12 -0000 (UTC), Arlen Holder
<arlen...@newmachine.com> wrote:

>On Sun, 21 Jun 2020 17:26:31 -0500, Jim Joyce wrote:
>
>>>Depends how many quarts and what kind of oil. I've heard of people
>>>spending that just for oil change.
>>
>> I wait for the $9.99 coupon to roll around. If I miss it, there's always a
>> $14.99 coupon available.
>
>Wow. That seems inexpensive for sure. What locale do you live in.

That was Kansas City and San Antonio.

[Clare Snyder]

On Mon, 22 Jun 2020 01:00:42 -0500, Jim Joyce <no...@none.invalid>
wrote:

And that's using the cheapest oily swill they can buy and the
ceappiest filters made - not to mention only 1 in about 10 get out the
door without spending another $25 minimum on un-needed stuff.

I have no beef with mechanics - I was one half my working life - but
the shysters at the fast lube, tire, and muffler shops should
virtually all be in jail.

[Arlen Holder]

On Mon, 22 Jun 2020 01:00:42 -0500, Jim Joyce wrote:

>>> I wait for the $9.99 coupon to roll around. If I miss it, there's always a
>>> $14.99 coupon available.
>>
>>Wow. That seems inexpensive for sure. What locale do you live in.
>
> That was Kansas City and San Antonio.

Thank you for clarifying, where Usenet is a polite discussion that takes a
bit of clarification since it's text only and we don't know each other.

Here's the San Jose "typical" price range (according to "yourmechanic"):

o <https://www.yourmechanic.com/services/change-oil-and-filter/?city=san-jose-ca>
Price range for all vehicles = $92.34 to $157.60

Compared to Kansas City (presumably Missouri and not KCK) ... hmmmmmmm....
o <https://www.yourmechanic.com/services/change-oil-and-filter/?city=kansas-city-mo>

Price range for all vehicles = $92.34 to $157.60

Heck, it doesn't change, so the site I reported is bogus for oil changes:
o <https://www.yourmechanic.com/services/change-oil-and-filter/?city=san-antonio-tx>

Price range for all vehicles = $92.34 to $157.60

So I clicked on the default zip code for each locale...
o And I chose the _first_ vehicle, make, model, and engine in the list...

Which, for San Jose, 95101, Acura CL 2003 V6-3.2L was:
Acura CL 2003 V6-3.2L Change Oil and Filter
Labor $45.00
Parts $42.79
Tax $3.96
Your total price $178.00

Drat. It was the same for Kansas City zip 64101, and San Antonio zip 78201.
So that web site is worthless.

[Arlen Holder]

On Mon, 22 Jun 2020 12:37:11 -0400, Clare Snyder wrote:

> I have no beef with mechanics - I was one half my working life - but
> the shysters at the fast lube, tire, and muffler shops should
> virtually all be in jail.

I agree with Clare that fast-lube, tire, and muffler shop mechanics have
multiple jobs, where one of their most important jobs is to get you to
spend more than you were intending on spending when you came in.

Once I was behind a lady at the tire shop, where I overheard the counter
person say she was within (I forget how much) of the legal limit and she
should get all her tires replaced. As I recall, the amount of tread left
was plenty, where I noticed the lady already had a two thousand dollar bill
(and that didn't include tires). It must have been brakes, but even brakes
couldn't cost that much... anyway...

I whispered to the lady that tire wear is like shoe wear. It's not worn
until it's worn, and they're never new except on the first day, so they're
_always_ worn.

She declined the new tires, but what shocked me was the disdain the counter
lady gave her saying it's "unsafe", which was patently false. That's how
they get people, I guess. They scare them, I guess.

Me? I wait until the belts show, but I agree that's going too far, and, I
usually try to replace those bald tires before the rainy season (here it
doesn't rain even once from about May to about November).

> And that's using the cheapest oily swill they can buy and the
> ceappiest filters made - not to mention only 1 in about 10 get out the
> door without spending another $25 minimum on un-needed stuff.

Here is where I agree and disagree with Clare, where Clare certainly has
the experience, where I try to rely mostly on research (aka "book
knowledge"), neither of which is a foolproof method in and of itself
(IMHO).

I agree on the crappy filters (e.g., Fram), where the best approach, AFAIK,
is to find an oil filter review where the guy cuts open the filters, and
then pick the set of brands that you like best based on those reviews and
on availability (bearing in mind, just as with batteries and gasoline,
there are ten times the number of brands than there are outfits who make
them).

I disagree on the oil, where "cheap" is meaningless in terms of quality
(anyone who says "you get what you pay for" is an idiot, IMHO, since you
get what you get, no matter what you pay for it).

For oil, while there _are_ distinctions that show up in tests where they
rip apart the engine after a stated number of miles to measure stuff, and,
there are tests of contaminants you can run, outside of that there is a
very simple way to get "the best" oil you can buy (at whatever price it
costs).

It's called your owners manual.

If your owners manual specifies, oh, say, API SL quality oil, than you buy
SL or better (the second letter being alphabetical) at whatever price it
costs (usually you buy the cheapest SL you can find, IMHO).

If your car specifies SL, then SM, or SM, etc., will work fine, but the
rule I use is to simply buy the cheapest SL (or better) you can get, where,
if you change regularly, will be no better (IMHO) than the most expensive
SL you can get - which is my point about price.
--
As for viscosity, I won't even go there since it really doesn't matter
except in extremes, and we're not discussing extremes here.

[TimR]

I moved to a southern state some decades back, with a good car for my wife and a beater for me. As I arrived one of the brake lines blew. The shop said the frame was rusted through, the next bump I hit it might break in half, it couldn't be repaired or safely driven. He wouldn't let me take it home for fear of liability. I made him show me, but he was right. It had been a Wisconsin car driven in heavy salt.

I sold it to a neighbor for parts, full disclosure, not safe to drive. Next week i saw his wife driving it, with a new inspection sticker. He said you just have to know where to take it.

[TimR]

I quit changing my own oil when the local places offered coupons for less than the cost of parts.

And now with a new car, oil changes are free at the dealer (though they always try to get something for you to pay for.)

But if I were still driving an older car, I might go back to doing it myself, and each time draining a some transmission fluid and coolant at the same time. it won't all come out, but even without emptying, about every three oil changes you've replaced most of it. If you're going to drive an older car into the ground that's a way to get a few extra years.

[Frank]

I'm not that, Frank, you mention but living here in nearby DE many PA
residents near the border kept their registration in DE if they move
there from here.

In DE a new car goes 5 years before inspection and you can tack on two
more years without inspection at the end of that period just paying the
$40/yr fee. Then it is inspection every 2 years. They look at lights,
wipers etc and do a brake stopping test and plug in the computer to
check emissions. On a good day you can be in and out in 15 minutes.

Also just got my drivers license renewed late last year for 8 years for $40.

[Arlen Holder]

On Mon, 22 Jun 2020 10:36:33 -0700 (PDT), TimR wrote:

> I quit changing my own oil when the local places
> offered coupons for less than the cost of parts.

To each his own, but I doubt even at the sale price, it's less than what it
would cost at home.

For example, a Mann (Mahle, Hengst, etc.) filter cartridge (with o-ring)
for my bimmer costs less than five bucks online, and, six quarts of the
best quality dino juice you can buy is about 2 bucks a quart.
<https://www.oilspecifications.org/oiltool/oiltool.php>

*Add the local California sales tax of about 10% that's about 20 bucks*.

Plus, I can change my oil with the convenience that I don't have to drive
down to the shop (admittedly, for me, that's a 30 mile round trip), wait,
get the free coffee, and have them do it for me.

> And now with a new car, oil changes are free at the dealer
> (though they always try to get something for you to pay for.)

Indeed, they do! :)

> But if I were still driving an older car, I might go back to doing
> it myself, and each time draining a some transmission fluid and
> coolant at the same time. it won't all come out, but even without
> emptying, about every three oil changes you've replaced most of it.

I don't change coolant or transmission oil at oil-change intervals, but I
do clean out the power steering filter every once in a while.

> If you're going to drive an older car into the ground that's a way
> to get a few extra years.

Yup.
--
Usenet is a polite public potluck of purposefully helpful advice.

[Arlen Holder]

On Mon, 22 Jun 2020 10:29:15 -0700 (PDT), TimR wrote:

> I moved to a southern state some decades back, '
> with a good car for my wife and a beater for me.
> As I arrived one of the brake lines blew.

It happens.

Over my 60 years of driving, once I lost vacuum on a downslope, and had to
mash the pedal to get any braking; another time I lost a rubber brake line;
and a third, more recent time (couple of years ago), the master cylinder
needed to be rebuilt.

No brakes is no fun, but luckily, the parts are usually trivial to replace.

> The shop said the frame was rusted through

Lots of debate, but what the "frame" is on a modern car is up for grabs.
In the rust belt, it's normal for the underbody to be rusty.

> the next bump I hit it might break in half

Yeah. That sounds like the typical "scare tactics" I heard the tire shop
feed the woman in front of me that her tires were "dangerous", when they
had plenty of meat left.

> it couldn't be repaired or safely driven.

Hmmmm.... sounds like scare tactics, which I think you'd agree.

> He wouldn't let me take it home for fear of liability.

Hmmmm... can someone legally impound your vehicle like that?

> I made him show me, but he was right.

Hmmmmmm.......

> It had been a Wisconsin car driven in heavy salt.

The rust belt exists.
Cars rust.

The OEMs know that, so they design it in, so to speak.

> I sold it to a neighbor for parts, full disclosure,
> not safe to drive. Next week i saw his wife driving it,
> with a new inspection sticker.
> He said you just have to know where to take it.

Seems like the brakes were probably a line or two that needed replacing (it
happens), while the "frame" probably want's necessarily a "frame" but just
the underbody (which rusts as part of normal wear and tear).

In summary, it seems the repair shop tried fed people on fear.

[Tekkie®]

On Sun, 21 Jun 2020 13:48:14 -0700 (PDT), Thomas posted for all
of us to digest...

>
> 97.99?
> Steep?
> 2004 xterra.
> Steve Shannon tire, PA.
> Nothing needed fixing.

Was the sticker fee & emissions included? Actually not bad 1/2
hour for inspection while under the car for the oil & filter
(most likely low end products) and plug in the emessions test.
Drive in & out of bay for major clunks. My guess is they
couldn't find anything, so you made out.They are looking for
the no maitenance hooptie crowd. I forgot does your area have
emissions inspection?

--
Tekkie

[Tekkie®]

On Sun, 21 Jun 2020 17:55:07 -0400, Ed Pawlowski posted for all
of us to digest...

>

> On 6/21/2020 5:24 PM, hub...@ccanoemail.ca wrote:

> > On Sun, 21 Jun 2020 13:48:14 -0700 (PDT), Thomas <cano...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> 97.99?
> >> Steep?
> >> 2004 xterra.
> >> Steve Shannon tire, PA.
> >> Nothing needed fixing.
> >
> >

> > Define " inspection " ...
> >
> > ... check tires & fluid levels & quick visual ?
> > ... pull 4 wheels and inspect brakes ?
> >
> > ... bit of a difference yes ?
> >
> > John T.
> >
>
> State inspection in PA. Pull two wheels to check brakes, exhaust
> system, ball joints, etc. Should take about 20 minutes.

Don't have to pull wheels with disc brakes.

--
Tekkie

[Tekkie®]

On Sun, 21 Jun 2020 19:50:15 -0400, micky posted for all of us
to digest...

>

> In alt.home.repair, on Sun, 21 Jun 2020 18:12:05 -0400,
> hub...@ccanoemail.ca wrote:
>
> >On Sun, 21 Jun 2020 17:55:07 -0400, Ed Pawlowski <e...@snet.xxx> wrote:
> >
> >>On 6/21/2020 5:24 PM, hub...@ccanoemail.ca wrote:
> >>> On Sun, 21 Jun 2020 13:48:14 -0700 (PDT), Thomas <cano...@gmail.com>
> >>> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> 97.99?
> >>>> Steep?
> >>>> 2004 xterra.
> >>>> Steve Shannon tire, PA.
> >>>> Nothing needed fixing.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Define " inspection " ...
> >>>
> >>> ... check tires & fluid levels & quick visual ?
> >>> ... pull 4 wheels and inspect brakes ?
> >>>
> >>> ... bit of a difference yes ?
> >>>
> >>> John T.
> >>>
> >>
> >>State inspection in PA. Pull two wheels to check brakes, exhaust
> >>system, ball joints, etc. Should take about 20 minutes.
> >
> >
> > No road test ?
>
> A road test is not required in Pa. The owner drives the car. He can
> test it.
>

Baloney...

> >... there are "inspections" and there are
> >mandated inspections with paperwork ...
> >The OP seems to only knows what it cost him ..
> > ... with no idea what was done.
> > John T.

--
Tekkie