info
Google Groups no longer supports new Usenet posts or subscriptions. Historical content remains viewable.
Dismiss
Burglar alarms and home security
39 views
Skip to first unread message
Rebel1
Apr 6, 2012, 11:12:43 AM4/6/12
to
Because of a recent burglary, I am going to install an alarm system in
my single-family ranch home (no basement)that I reside in alone. The
street is a quiet, family-oriented one (no loud cars, boom boxes,
tough-looking guys of any age).
The considerations (aimed at burglar detection):
1. A silent alarm so the cops might catch them in the act, vs. one that
lights lights and beeps horns to scare them away (so they're free to
strike elsewhere).
2. A silent alarm that signals me if I'm home, so I could defend myself
with a gun. If I'm away, the alarm could notify a next-door neighbor, a
monitoring service, or the police. Police allow three false alarms a
year before charging. (I believe there are systems that will call my
cell phone, but it's always off and in my car, as it is used only for
calls that I originate.)
3. Beefed up barriers to entry, like locking bars for sliding doors, and
high quality door locks. Problem is, if place looks too fortified,
rather than being deterred burglars might see this as a sign that there
is really valuable stuff inside and make a more determined (and
damaging) effort to enter.
4. How easy is it to defeat? The incoming AC power cable is enclosed in
heavy duty metal conduit. But it would be easy to cut the flimsy pin
that locks the cover over the meter and simply remove the meter. The
cable TV and phone lines are not enclosed and are easy to cut and
thereby defeat ordinary landlines or phone service via the cable
company. This forces a battery-backup wireless system.
5. Camera: Do they really do much good in deterring via their visible
presence or in identifying a suspect that the cops catch?
Other measures (mainly home security):
1. Lights on timers.
2. Radio or TV on all the time.
3. Shades for the garage window so nobody can see if a car is present.
In my neighborhood, a car is a necessity as it's a mile to a major
highway. So if the garage is empty, it's a excellent indication that the
house is empty also.
4. Locking bars on sliding doors.
5. Double-key deadbolts on doors with glass panes, so burglars can't
break a window and simply reach in and unlock a single-key deadbolt.
6. Fake decals warning that a system is installed even if not true.
After writing the above, I came across a book on amazon.com called
Essential Home Security: A Layman's Guide. Clicking on the Table of
Contents link,
http://www.amazon.com/Essential-Home-Security-Laymans-Guide/dp/1453732039/ref=sr_1_14?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1333721382&sr=1-14#reader_1453732039
it appears to address my concerns and many, many factors that I have not
considered. I can't tell, however, if he addresses defeating the systems
(consideration 4 above).
One of the reviewers was annoyed because the book was self-published (so
what?) and because there were no specific product recommendations. The
other reviews gave it high marks for at least pointing out
vulnerabilities you may have.
Thanks for your comments/feedback.
R1
my single-family ranch home (no basement)that I reside in alone. The
street is a quiet, family-oriented one (no loud cars, boom boxes,
tough-looking guys of any age).
The considerations (aimed at burglar detection):
1. A silent alarm so the cops might catch them in the act, vs. one that
lights lights and beeps horns to scare them away (so they're free to
strike elsewhere).
2. A silent alarm that signals me if I'm home, so I could defend myself
with a gun. If I'm away, the alarm could notify a next-door neighbor, a
monitoring service, or the police. Police allow three false alarms a
year before charging. (I believe there are systems that will call my
cell phone, but it's always off and in my car, as it is used only for
calls that I originate.)
3. Beefed up barriers to entry, like locking bars for sliding doors, and
high quality door locks. Problem is, if place looks too fortified,
rather than being deterred burglars might see this as a sign that there
is really valuable stuff inside and make a more determined (and
damaging) effort to enter.
4. How easy is it to defeat? The incoming AC power cable is enclosed in
heavy duty metal conduit. But it would be easy to cut the flimsy pin
that locks the cover over the meter and simply remove the meter. The
cable TV and phone lines are not enclosed and are easy to cut and
thereby defeat ordinary landlines or phone service via the cable
company. This forces a battery-backup wireless system.
5. Camera: Do they really do much good in deterring via their visible
presence or in identifying a suspect that the cops catch?
Other measures (mainly home security):
1. Lights on timers.
2. Radio or TV on all the time.
3. Shades for the garage window so nobody can see if a car is present.
In my neighborhood, a car is a necessity as it's a mile to a major
highway. So if the garage is empty, it's a excellent indication that the
house is empty also.
4. Locking bars on sliding doors.
5. Double-key deadbolts on doors with glass panes, so burglars can't
break a window and simply reach in and unlock a single-key deadbolt.
6. Fake decals warning that a system is installed even if not true.
After writing the above, I came across a book on amazon.com called
Essential Home Security: A Layman's Guide. Clicking on the Table of
Contents link,
http://www.amazon.com/Essential-Home-Security-Laymans-Guide/dp/1453732039/ref=sr_1_14?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1333721382&sr=1-14#reader_1453732039
it appears to address my concerns and many, many factors that I have not
considered. I can't tell, however, if he addresses defeating the systems
(consideration 4 above).
One of the reviewers was annoyed because the book was self-published (so
what?) and because there were no specific product recommendations. The
other reviews gave it high marks for at least pointing out
vulnerabilities you may have.
Thanks for your comments/feedback.
R1
Doug
Apr 6, 2012, 11:28:45 AM4/6/12
to
On Fri, 06 Apr 2012 11:12:43 -0400, Rebel1 <Reb...@optonline.net>
wrote:
I'm no expert tho I've had a security system in my home for many
years. In my system you cut the power and the monitoring station
gets a signal. My system is wired with a battery backup.
While I think you are right for considering beefed up security, I
can't help think like another poster and wonder why your house was
targeted while you were gone just for one night. I wonder if a
neighbor was connected to this??? I suppose there is no way to
answer this but do you keep valuables in your home and who knows about
it? You might want to move them offsite if possible.
Do you want to consider a dog as added security??? Maybe talk to the
police for advice since they should know the area best.
wrote:
years. In my system you cut the power and the monitoring station
gets a signal. My system is wired with a battery backup.
While I think you are right for considering beefed up security, I
can't help think like another poster and wonder why your house was
targeted while you were gone just for one night. I wonder if a
neighbor was connected to this??? I suppose there is no way to
answer this but do you keep valuables in your home and who knows about
it? You might want to move them offsite if possible.
Do you want to consider a dog as added security??? Maybe talk to the
police for advice since they should know the area best.
Jim Yanik
Apr 6, 2012, 12:31:19 PM4/6/12
to
Rebel1 <Reb...@optonline.net> wrote in
news:4f7f07eb$0$30079$607e...@cv.net:
> Because of a recent burglary, I am going to install an alarm system in
> my single-family ranch home (no basement)that I reside in alone. The
> street is a quiet, family-oriented one (no loud cars, boom boxes,
> tough-looking guys of any age).
>
> The considerations (aimed at burglar detection):
> 1. A silent alarm so the cops might catch them in the act, vs. one
> that lights lights and beeps horns to scare them away (so they're free
> to strike elsewhere).
Noisy alarms will likely anger neighbors when they eventually false.
False alarms also desensitize neighbors who then ignore them,or even file
complaints.
If you call the police to respond,you still have the problem of false
alarms.
often,burglars just use a crowbar to force open the door frame.
a deadbolt is only as good as the door frame it slides into.
First thing I did when I moved into my apartment was to install a big metal
plate for the deadbolt,and long bolts into the stud beneath the flimsy trim
piece of the frame. you can buy them at home improvement stores. if the
door is wood,that is also a vulnerability,but they make reinforcing plates
for them too. a wood door can split when hit hard,or pried upon with a
crowbar.
> In my neighborhood, a car is a necessity as it's a mile to a major
> highway. So if the garage is empty, it's a excellent indication that
> the house is empty also.
> 4. Locking bars on sliding doors.
GOOD idea.
> 6. Fake decals warning that a system is installed even if not true.
Burglars are probably used to those.spot them a mile away.
think someone is home so they don't try to get in.
a major problem with an alarm is "who is going to respond to it?"
Do you expect your neighbors to come over and check it out?
there are monitored alarm systems that cost you a yearly subscription.
I've heard not-good things about ADT.(I have no financial interest in any
alarm company.)
you can get security cams that record to a (hidden)PC,and that you can even
check your house out from online. they are good to see if you have outdoor
prowlers,maybe peeking in windows to see if anyone's home. police have
caught burglars who were recorded on security cams.
--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
localnet
dot com
news:4f7f07eb$0$30079$607e...@cv.net:
> Because of a recent burglary, I am going to install an alarm system in
> my single-family ranch home (no basement)that I reside in alone. The
> street is a quiet, family-oriented one (no loud cars, boom boxes,
> tough-looking guys of any age).
>
> The considerations (aimed at burglar detection):
> 1. A silent alarm so the cops might catch them in the act, vs. one
> that lights lights and beeps horns to scare them away (so they're free
> to strike elsewhere).
False alarms also desensitize neighbors who then ignore them,or even file
complaints.
>
> 2. A silent alarm that signals me if I'm home, so I could defend
> myself with a gun. If I'm away, the alarm could notify a next-door
> neighbor, a monitoring service, or the police. Police allow three
> false alarms a year before charging. (I believe there are systems that
> will call my cell phone, but it's always off and in my car, as it is
> used only for calls that I originate.)
Could you get home in time to DO anything?
> 2. A silent alarm that signals me if I'm home, so I could defend
> myself with a gun. If I'm away, the alarm could notify a next-door
> neighbor, a monitoring service, or the police. Police allow three
> false alarms a year before charging. (I believe there are systems that
> will call my cell phone, but it's always off and in my car, as it is
> used only for calls that I originate.)
If you call the police to respond,you still have the problem of false
alarms.
>
> 3. Beefed up barriers to entry, like locking bars for sliding doors,
> and high quality door locks. Problem is, if place looks too fortified,
> rather than being deterred burglars might see this as a sign that
> there is really valuable stuff inside and make a more determined (and
> damaging) effort to enter.
don't forget reinforced door jambs.
> 3. Beefed up barriers to entry, like locking bars for sliding doors,
> and high quality door locks. Problem is, if place looks too fortified,
> rather than being deterred burglars might see this as a sign that
> there is really valuable stuff inside and make a more determined (and
> damaging) effort to enter.
often,burglars just use a crowbar to force open the door frame.
a deadbolt is only as good as the door frame it slides into.
First thing I did when I moved into my apartment was to install a big metal
plate for the deadbolt,and long bolts into the stud beneath the flimsy trim
piece of the frame. you can buy them at home improvement stores. if the
door is wood,that is also a vulnerability,but they make reinforcing plates
for them too. a wood door can split when hit hard,or pried upon with a
crowbar.
>
> 4. How easy is it to defeat? The incoming AC power cable is enclosed
> in heavy duty metal conduit. But it would be easy to cut the flimsy
> pin that locks the cover over the meter and simply remove the meter.
> The cable TV and phone lines are not enclosed and are easy to cut and
> thereby defeat ordinary landlines or phone service via the cable
> company. This forces a battery-backup wireless system.
it's pretty rare that a burglar will cut power/phone lines.
> 4. How easy is it to defeat? The incoming AC power cable is enclosed
> in heavy duty metal conduit. But it would be easy to cut the flimsy
> pin that locks the cover over the meter and simply remove the meter.
> The cable TV and phone lines are not enclosed and are easy to cut and
> thereby defeat ordinary landlines or phone service via the cable
> company. This forces a battery-backup wireless system.
>
> 5. Camera: Do they really do much good in deterring via their visible
> presence or in identifying a suspect that the cops catch?
>
> Other measures (mainly home security):
>
> 1. Lights on timers.
> 2. Radio or TV on all the time.
or on a timer.
> 5. Camera: Do they really do much good in deterring via their visible
> presence or in identifying a suspect that the cops catch?
>
> Other measures (mainly home security):
>
> 1. Lights on timers.
> 2. Radio or TV on all the time.
> 3. Shades for the garage window so nobody can see if a car is present.
or dark window tint.lets light in,but makes it too hard to see inside.
> In my neighborhood, a car is a necessity as it's a mile to a major
> highway. So if the garage is empty, it's a excellent indication that
> the house is empty also.
> 4. Locking bars on sliding doors.
> 5. Double-key deadbolts on doors with glass panes, so burglars can't
> break a window and simply reach in and unlock a single-key deadbolt.
GOOD idea. I never liked having a window right next to a door.
> break a window and simply reach in and unlock a single-key deadbolt.
> 6. Fake decals warning that a system is installed even if not true.
>
> After writing the above, I came across a book on amazon.com called
> Essential Home Security: A Layman's Guide. Clicking on the Table of
> Contents link,
>
> http://www.amazon.com/Essential-Home-Security-Laymans-Guide/dp/14537320
> 39/ref=sr_1_14?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1333721382&sr=1-14#reader_1453
> 732039
>
> it appears to address my concerns and many, many factors that I have
> not considered. I can't tell, however, if he addresses defeating the
> systems (consideration 4 above).
>
> One of the reviewers was annoyed because the book was self-published
> (so what?) and because there were no specific product recommendations.
> The other reviews gave it high marks for at least pointing out
> vulnerabilities you may have.
>
> Thanks for your comments/feedback.
>
> R1
>
>
>
the best defense is to make it too hard for them to get in,and to make them
> After writing the above, I came across a book on amazon.com called
> Essential Home Security: A Layman's Guide. Clicking on the Table of
> Contents link,
>
> http://www.amazon.com/Essential-Home-Security-Laymans-Guide/dp/14537320
> 39/ref=sr_1_14?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1333721382&sr=1-14#reader_1453
> 732039
>
> it appears to address my concerns and many, many factors that I have
> not considered. I can't tell, however, if he addresses defeating the
> systems (consideration 4 above).
>
> One of the reviewers was annoyed because the book was self-published
> (so what?) and because there were no specific product recommendations.
> The other reviews gave it high marks for at least pointing out
> vulnerabilities you may have.
>
> Thanks for your comments/feedback.
>
> R1
>
>
>
think someone is home so they don't try to get in.
a major problem with an alarm is "who is going to respond to it?"
Do you expect your neighbors to come over and check it out?
there are monitored alarm systems that cost you a yearly subscription.
I've heard not-good things about ADT.(I have no financial interest in any
alarm company.)
you can get security cams that record to a (hidden)PC,and that you can even
check your house out from online. they are good to see if you have outdoor
prowlers,maybe peeking in windows to see if anyone's home. police have
caught burglars who were recorded on security cams.
--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
localnet
dot com
Frank
Apr 6, 2012, 12:41:56 PM4/6/12
to
neighbor's alarm goes off as 99% are false alarms. If your alarm goes
directly to the police you risk a fine for a 2nd false alarm and a third
will cost you more. Neighbor was complaining that it cost her $500 last
year.
Robert Green
Apr 6, 2012, 12:38:40 PM4/6/12
to
"Rebel1" <Reb...@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:4f7f07eb$0$30079$607e...@cv.net...
Sadly, part of good protection means that you make yourself less of a
potential target and that makes your neighbors more of one.
> 2. A silent alarm that signals me if I'm home, so I could defend myself
> with a gun. If I'm away, the alarm could notify a next-door neighbor, a
> monitoring service, or the police. Police allow three false alarms a
> year before charging. (I believe there are systems that will call my
> cell phone, but it's always off and in my car, as it is used only for
> calls that I originate.)
You want them out ASAP and you want your neighbors (if you have them)
alerted to a problem in your house ASAP, too. Silent alarm + you wandering
around armed when the cops arrive could = dead you.
> 3. Beefed up barriers to entry, like locking bars for sliding doors, and
> high quality door locks. Problem is, if place looks too fortified,
> rather than being deterred burglars might see this as a sign that there
> is really valuable stuff inside and make a more determined (and
> damaging) effort to enter.
That's part of the problem of balance. How much security is enough? How
much is too much?
> 4. How easy is it to defeat? The incoming AC power cable is enclosed in
> heavy duty metal conduit. But it would be easy to cut the flimsy pin
> that locks the cover over the meter and simply remove the meter. The
> cable TV and phone lines are not enclosed and are easy to cut and
> thereby defeat ordinary landlines or phone service via the cable
> company. This forces a battery-backup wireless system.
Which is why I am a proponent of the extremely loud inside and outside
alarms. You can have alarm sensors setups that detect the cutting of the
phone line and start the sirens and bells on battery backup. That causes
your neighbors to call the police - what I call the "human wireless
network." No monthly fee.
> 5. Camera: Do they really do much good in deterring via their visible e
obvious. A whole street of cars got broken into just outside the range of
my front door cam. I figure it was our local crackhead who knew to stay
clear of the camera. Caught one burglar on CCTV, but not the way you'd
think. Just walked in the house and turned on the lights and the CCTV
monitor that's on the same switch. Saw someone walking along the side of
the house (11PM!), grabbed my 2 million candlepower spot and shined it on
his face, not realizing it had burned out his night vision. The cops were
called while I questioned the guy. They came *amazingly* fast.
As for the chance of actually making an ID off the typical consumer grade
CCTV stuff from late at night? Very small. Put on a hoodie and even the
prosumer stuff won't be able to tell Zimmerman from Martin a distances
greater than 20 feet. Video from nite IR cams (except for the stuff NatGeo
uses) and recording equipment looks green and white or black and white and
is usually pretty awful recorded at anything less than HQ. Many consumer
CCTV recorders don't even offer an HQ option since it eats so much disk
space.
> Other measures (mainly home security):
>
> 1. Lights on timers.
Always. I use X-10. Much more sophisticated.
> 2. Radio or TV on all the time.
I have one hooked up to a motion sensor through X-10 that starts and stops
radio play in a back room. I also have one of their REX electronic dogs
that barks (very convincingly!) when motion is detected on the porch.
> 3. Shades for the garage window so nobody can see if a car is present.
> In my neighborhood, a car is a necessity as it's a mile to a major
> highway. So if the garage is empty, it's a excellent indication that the
> house is empty also.
Definitely. I put translucent film on the basement windows as well.
> 4. Locking bars on sliding doors.
Yes.
> 5. Double-key deadbolts on doors with glass panes, so burglars can't
> break a window and simply reach in and unlock a single-key deadbolt.
Yes.
>6. Fake decals warning that a system is installed even if not true.
Couldn't hurt. Steal an ADT sign from someone elses' home. ()-"
> After writing the above, I came across a book on amazon.com called
> Essential Home Security: A Layman's Guide. Clicking on the Table of
> Contents link,
>
>
http://www.amazon.com/Essential-Home-Security-Laymans-Guide/dp/1453732039/ref=sr_1_14?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1333721382&sr=1-14#reader_1453732039
>
> it appears to address my concerns and many, many factors that I have not
> considered. I can't tell, however, if he addresses defeating the systems
> (consideration 4 above).
>
> One of the reviewers was annoyed because the book was self-published (so
> what?) and because there were no specific product recommendations. The
> other reviews gave it high marks for at least pointing out
> vulnerabilities you may have.
You may also want to talk to your local police. Many departments will give
you a safety walkaound. They can give you lots of important local info,
too.
--
Bobby G.
news:4f7f07eb$0$30079$607e...@cv.net...
> Because of a recent burglary, I am going to install an alarm system in
> my single-family ranch home (no basement)that I reside in alone. The
> street is a quiet, family-oriented one (no loud cars, boom boxes,
> tough-looking guys of any age).
>
> The considerations (aimed at burglar detection):
> 1. A silent alarm so the cops might catch them in the act, vs. one that
> lights lights and beeps horns to scare them away (so they're free to
> strike elsewhere).
Don't succumb to mission creep. (-: Your job is to protect your home.
> my single-family ranch home (no basement)that I reside in alone. The
> street is a quiet, family-oriented one (no loud cars, boom boxes,
> tough-looking guys of any age).
>
> The considerations (aimed at burglar detection):
> 1. A silent alarm so the cops might catch them in the act, vs. one that
> lights lights and beeps horns to scare them away (so they're free to
> strike elsewhere).
Sadly, part of good protection means that you make yourself less of a
potential target and that makes your neighbors more of one.
> 2. A silent alarm that signals me if I'm home, so I could defend myself
> with a gun. If I'm away, the alarm could notify a next-door neighbor, a
> monitoring service, or the police. Police allow three false alarms a
> year before charging. (I believe there are systems that will call my
> cell phone, but it's always off and in my car, as it is used only for
> calls that I originate.)
alerted to a problem in your house ASAP, too. Silent alarm + you wandering
around armed when the cops arrive could = dead you.
> 3. Beefed up barriers to entry, like locking bars for sliding doors, and
> high quality door locks. Problem is, if place looks too fortified,
> rather than being deterred burglars might see this as a sign that there
> is really valuable stuff inside and make a more determined (and
> damaging) effort to enter.
much is too much?
> 4. How easy is it to defeat? The incoming AC power cable is enclosed in
> heavy duty metal conduit. But it would be easy to cut the flimsy pin
> that locks the cover over the meter and simply remove the meter. The
> cable TV and phone lines are not enclosed and are easy to cut and
> thereby defeat ordinary landlines or phone service via the cable
> company. This forces a battery-backup wireless system.
alarms. You can have alarm sensors setups that detect the cutting of the
phone line and start the sirens and bells on battery backup. That causes
your neighbors to call the police - what I call the "human wireless
network." No monthly fee.
> 5. Camera: Do they really do much good in deterring via their visible e
> presence or in identifying a suspect that the cops catch?
Knock on wood but . . . My neighbors all knew I had CCTV. It's pretty
obvious. A whole street of cars got broken into just outside the range of
my front door cam. I figure it was our local crackhead who knew to stay
clear of the camera. Caught one burglar on CCTV, but not the way you'd
think. Just walked in the house and turned on the lights and the CCTV
monitor that's on the same switch. Saw someone walking along the side of
the house (11PM!), grabbed my 2 million candlepower spot and shined it on
his face, not realizing it had burned out his night vision. The cops were
called while I questioned the guy. They came *amazingly* fast.
As for the chance of actually making an ID off the typical consumer grade
CCTV stuff from late at night? Very small. Put on a hoodie and even the
prosumer stuff won't be able to tell Zimmerman from Martin a distances
greater than 20 feet. Video from nite IR cams (except for the stuff NatGeo
uses) and recording equipment looks green and white or black and white and
is usually pretty awful recorded at anything less than HQ. Many consumer
CCTV recorders don't even offer an HQ option since it eats so much disk
space.
> Other measures (mainly home security):
>
> 1. Lights on timers.
> 2. Radio or TV on all the time.
radio play in a back room. I also have one of their REX electronic dogs
that barks (very convincingly!) when motion is detected on the porch.
> 3. Shades for the garage window so nobody can see if a car is present.
> In my neighborhood, a car is a necessity as it's a mile to a major
> highway. So if the garage is empty, it's a excellent indication that the
> house is empty also.
> 4. Locking bars on sliding doors.
> 5. Double-key deadbolts on doors with glass panes, so burglars can't
> break a window and simply reach in and unlock a single-key deadbolt.
>6. Fake decals warning that a system is installed even if not true.
> After writing the above, I came across a book on amazon.com called
> Essential Home Security: A Layman's Guide. Clicking on the Table of
> Contents link,
>
>
http://www.amazon.com/Essential-Home-Security-Laymans-Guide/dp/1453732039/ref=sr_1_14?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1333721382&sr=1-14#reader_1453732039
>
> it appears to address my concerns and many, many factors that I have not
> considered. I can't tell, however, if he addresses defeating the systems
> (consideration 4 above).
>
> One of the reviewers was annoyed because the book was self-published (so
> what?) and because there were no specific product recommendations. The
> other reviews gave it high marks for at least pointing out
> vulnerabilities you may have.
you a safety walkaound. They can give you lots of important local info,
too.
--
Bobby G.
Robert Macy
Apr 6, 2012, 1:28:39 PM4/6/12
to
>
> it appears to address my concerns and many, many factors that I have not
> considered. I can't tell, however, if he addresses defeating the systems
> (consideration 4 above).
>
> One of the reviewers was annoyed because the book was self-published (so
> what?) and because there were no specific product recommendations. The
> other reviews gave it high marks for at least pointing out
> vulnerabilities you may have.
>
> Thanks for your comments/feedback.
>
> R1
My comments/opinions:
> it appears to address my concerns and many, many factors that I have not
> considered. I can't tell, however, if he addresses defeating the systems
> (consideration 4 above).
>
> One of the reviewers was annoyed because the book was self-published (so
> what?) and because there were no specific product recommendations. The
> other reviews gave it high marks for at least pointing out
> vulnerabilities you may have.
>
> Thanks for your comments/feedback.
>
> R1
I was told by police of 7th largest city in US that in their
experience NEVER had power/telephone lines cut by a burglar, even when
all is prominently above ground and accessible.
ALARMS:
local alarm
external: loud/obnoxious for 5+ minutes, won't anger neighbors too
much, lights flashing for 10+ minutes. There may be ordinances
concerning noise makers. I mounted my siren INSIDE our home pointing
out through vent opening to meet local ordinance, yet still make noise
outside.
internal: loud/obnoxious 120+dB WITH lights flashing for 20 minutes
silent/monitored alarm
1-2 minutes BEFORE loud local alarms, silent alarm - maybe local
response actually catch someone exiting
cameras: for record/review, possible identification, system connect to
internet to notify you via cell phone, or to service. It is a nice
feature to be able to check for prowlers while you're inside. Once, I
put in military grade proximity alarms, even included radar that
looked through walls to 10 foot regions outside. You could NOT believe
the number of people that wandered around outside at night!
outside indicators:
no decal, just a visible alarm bell - not so discretely tucked away.
As far as 'fortressing' your home...
For valuables, after having a safety deposit box mysteriously lose
some contents [had written list of complete contents at home for
comparison] decided to NEVER let valuables out of my hands again.
Thus, used the dead spaces under our cabinetry in bathroom and kitchen
and built fake back walls into several closets. I converted the
kickstep covers for the cabinetry to become removable. Each was held
in place with those "push to open" latches. Contents under cabinets
were those heavy coin collections etc, heavy, thin flat items, more
than 200 lb total. The spaces made by the fake back walls in the
closets were to enclose larger items, like sterlingware, special
jewelry, etc. and wife's collection of furs. NOBODY knew about the
false areas, except us. Then added a more conventional, and
prominent, bolt down safe to occupy anyone who wanted to hang around
and get the lollipop out of it. Thus, the home was secure, but did
not appear to be fortified.
Pass the word around that your home has NOTHING of value inside it,
has cameras security etc just to prevent potential vandalism from any
angry intruder.
Home Guy
Apr 6, 2012, 1:47:31 PM4/6/12
to
Rebel1 wrote:
> Because of a recent burglary, I am going to install an alarm system
> in my single-family ranch home (no basement)that I reside in alone.
> Because of a recent burglary, I am going to install an alarm system
> in my single-family ranch home (no basement)that I reside in alone.
> The considerations (aimed at burglar detection):
> 1. A silent alarm so the cops might catch them in the act,
>
> 1. A silent alarm so the cops might catch them in the act,
>
> 2. A silent alarm that signals me if I'm home, so I could defend
> myself with a gun.
>
> myself with a gun.
>
> 3. Beefed up barriers to entry, like locking bars for sliding
> doors, and high quality door locks.
>
> doors, and high quality door locks.
>
> 4. How easy is it to defeat?
My experience with alarm systems is that I've installed 3 alarm systems
over the past 13 years - twice at my office (which moved to a different
location) and once in my home.
The systems at my office consisted of:
- motion detectors mounted in every room with either an outside
door or a window (sensors mounted in the corner of the room
where the walls meet the suspended ceiling)
- magnetic door sensors on each outside door
Wires were run from these sensors above the suspended ceiling to the
control unit. I performed all this work myself. I bought the sensors
and control unit (DSC 5500) from a local company that installs alarm
systems.
The control unit is designed to call 2 different phone numbers upon
sensing an alarm condition. I programmed the unit to call my home
telephone and the home phone of another key person. I did not subscribe
to an alarm monitoring company because there really isin't any need. If
either myself or the other key person gets the phone call from the unit,
we can use our own judgement as to how to proceed (either go to the
office, call the police or someone else, etc).
In the 12 years that I've had the alarm at the office, there hasn't ever
been a break-in, but there have been false-alarms caused by the motion
sensors (this seemed to happen during very cold winter nights when the
furnace would kick on and blow warm air over the windows, possibly
causing the blinds to move around).
At my house, I only have sensors to detect the opening and closing of
the front and back doors. Each door has a screen door and a "main" or
proper door, and both doors are monitored independantly at both
locations. I have the exact same DSC 5500 unit at home, and I have it
programmed to call my work phone number (because when I'm not at home,
the odds are I'm at work). I've never had a break-in at home, so that
unit has never been in an alarm condition where it's called me at work.
Door sensors are highly reliable and almost never give false alarms.
These alarm systems have keypads that you typically place near your
entrance/exit door. When you enter the premises when the alarm is set,
the keypad will emit a tone until you enter the code to deactivate the
system. If you don't enter the code, it will enter the alarm state in
30 seconds (or what-ever time period you want).
A burglar would also hear the tone upon entering the premises, and he
might decide to just turn around and leave because he knows that a
response will happen within minutes.
The control unit can power a loud horn (that you can place anywhere,
inside, outside, etc) if the unit enters the alarm mode. I don't have
any such horn connected to either of my work or home systems.
My current office location has bars over vulnerable lower-floor glass
windows, but my previous location had about 20 large windows (about 30
inches by 60 inches, double-pane) that had a protective membrane applied
to the inner pane to effectively laminate the glass and make it very
hard to penetrate. The membrane was slightly tinted to make it harder
to see inside and block some solar heat radiation from entering the
office. This lamination is available for residential windows and when I
get new windows for my home I will probably put this lamination on them.
Over the past few years I've been experimenting with cameras (internet
connected "IP" cameras) at home and the office. I have one such camera
on my front porch looking out onto the street. I can program the camera
to monitor the image and can define specific zones to sense any motion
in those zones, and it will send me an e-mail with the picture showing
what-ever is moving in the triggered zone. I therefor have images of
vehicles driving in front of my house, people walking up to my door,
etc.
I can also monitor a live video signal from that camera on my computer
at work if I want. I have a similar camera watching my back door. That
one has a microphone and speaker output (I can hear what's going on, and
I can speak into a microphone connected to my computer at work and have
it come out of the speakers connected to the back-door camera at
home). All of this is done without needing to subscribe to any server
or service. It's a direct internet connection between my office
computer and the cameras at home.
There are "apps" available for iSlave and other smart phones if that's
what you use vs a proper desktop computer. These apps are generally NOT
free - but typically cost $5 and they have a more limited functionality
vs what you can do on a PC.
For a home situation, it's very ergonomic to set up a home PC to perform
the video recording from the camera. As long as the PC isin't stolen,
you'll have a video record of who broke into your home (or who rang your
door bell, etc).
> 5. Camera: Do they really do much good in deterring via their
> visible presence or in identifying a suspect that the cops
> catch?
over the entrance to my parents garage (this is a 2-car attached
garage). There is also a bright light over this door. He set up a
video recording system (I think it recorded directly to a DVD-RW) and it
will just record over and over to the same disk each night.
One night it recorded some punk trying to break into the garage. The
camera recorded a nice clear image of the punk. The door was well
fortified so he didn't actually break in. My parents gave the video to
the police. They gave a copy to the local newspaper who put up a link
to the video on their website. After a few days the punk was identified
and he was charged (with attempted break-in I think).
I'm probably going to buy something called a "trail-cam". It's a camera
normally used by hunters and biologists that want to record pictures of
animals in remote locations. These cameras have motion detectors and
have very good night-vision capability, and have batteries that can last
up to a year, and can take thousands of hi-rez pictures over that time.
I would mount this camera to a tree in my front yard where it has a view
of the street. It would take pictures of any punks trolling around at
night looking for cars with unlocked doors.
The bottom line is that you need to ask yourself:
1) How much of any of this am I capable of doing myself (running wires,
buying specific devices, etc). Doing it yourself can save you a lot of
$$$ and you end up with something very customized to your situation.
2) One basic question is -> does the alarm system call a monitoring
service, or does it call you and/or any other appropriate person
(friend, family member, neighbor, etc) during an alarm condition. The
answer depends on (a) how much money you want to save, and (b) are there
people you trust (and who is willing to take the responsibility, and who
is likely to be able to come to your house when you're out of town).
I think it's overwhelmingly better to have "personal" response to an
alarm made by a trusted person instead of a monitoring company.
You could have a reciprocal arrangement with a friend, familiy member or
neighbor: Their alarm system can call you (as a backup contact) if your
alarm system can call them (again they would be your backup contact).
I said earlier that if any sensor is triggered, that the keypad will
emit a tone until the entry code is entered. This tone could be used to
wake you up (if you're home and the sensor is triggered in the middle of
the night). It is possible to place a second keypad in your bedroom
(for example) so you would hear the tone at night.
As for me, I never set my alarm when I'm home. I have no such fear or
expectation of having my home entered by an intruder during the evening
or over-night hours. For one thing, any such attempted entry would
probably wake me up, and second such an evening break-in attempt in my
neighborhood (or even in my city) is just so rare to begin with.
Tony Hwang
Apr 6, 2012, 1:52:51 PM4/6/12
to
Rebel1 wrote:
> Because of a recent burglary, I am going to install an alarm system in
> my single-family ranch home (no basement)that I reside in alone. The
> street is a quiet, family-oriented one (no loud cars, boom boxes,
> tough-looking guys of any age).
How about a good trained guard dog. No matter how good security shield
you deploy, bad guys are always one step ahead of you. I have a live-in
domestic helper and a professionally trained guard dog. Alarm system
is very seldom armed.
Rebel1
Apr 6, 2012, 2:33:07 PM4/6/12
to
I should have added that there are a lot of deer in my area, and they
trigger the motion sensor at the front of my garage that turns on a pair
of floodlights. So I can't rely on motion sensors to distinguish between
a car, deer, or people.
Lot sizes in my area are 100x200 ft.
trigger the motion sensor at the front of my garage that turns on a pair
of floodlights. So I can't rely on motion sensors to distinguish between
a car, deer, or people.
Lot sizes in my area are 100x200 ft.
George
Apr 6, 2012, 2:44:52 PM4/6/12
to
On 4/6/2012 1:47 PM, Home Guy wrote:
> Rebel1 wrote:
>
>> Because of a recent burglary, I am going to install an alarm system
>> in my single-family ranch home (no basement)that I reside in alone.
>
>> The considerations (aimed at burglar detection):
>> 1. A silent alarm so the cops might catch them in the act,
>>
>> 2. A silent alarm that signals me if I'm home, so I could defend
>> myself with a gun.
>>
>> 3. Beefed up barriers to entry, like locking bars for sliding
>> doors, and high quality door locks.
>>
>> 4. How easy is it to defeat?
>
> My experience with alarm systems is that I've installed 3 alarm systems
> over the past 13 years - twice at my office (which moved to a different
> location) and once in my home.
You go on and on ad naseum how perfect everything is in Canada. So why
> Rebel1 wrote:
>
>> Because of a recent burglary, I am going to install an alarm system
>> in my single-family ranch home (no basement)that I reside in alone.
>
>> The considerations (aimed at burglar detection):
>> 1. A silent alarm so the cops might catch them in the act,
>>
>> 2. A silent alarm that signals me if I'm home, so I could defend
>> myself with a gun.
>>
>> 3. Beefed up barriers to entry, like locking bars for sliding
>> doors, and high quality door locks.
>>
>> 4. How easy is it to defeat?
>
> My experience with alarm systems is that I've installed 3 alarm systems
> over the past 13 years - twice at my office (which moved to a different
> location) and once in my home.
would you need an alarm system in Canada?
Home Guy
Apr 6, 2012, 2:58:57 PM4/6/12
to
George wrote:
> > My experience with alarm systems is that I've installed 3 alarm
> > systems over the past 13 years
>
> > My experience with alarm systems is that I've installed 3 alarm
> > systems over the past 13 years
>
> You go on and on ad naseum how perfect everything is in Canada.
Yes I do. And it is.
> So why would you need an alarm system in Canada?
After 14 years of having alarm systems at two locations - and not a
single attempted or actual break-in, I clearly don't have as much of a
need for an alarm system as you do in the United States of Thievery.
Steve
Apr 6, 2012, 3:20:01 PM4/6/12
to
give you several caveats:
1 A professional thief will get what he wants from your home with no real
problems. The good news is it has to something very valuable for them to
waste their time on. An alarm system will make them think long and hard
before deciding to either attempt your place or the one done the street
with no alarm system.
2 The cops take forever to respond in most alarm system activations. So
my suggestion is the install an indoor siren. If you make the interior
loud enough the amateurs burgulars will leave quickly.
3 Modern systems have battery backup that should be good for at least 72
hours without AC power.
4 Get a system that is centrally monitored. You will have the peace of
mind that as soon as the system activates someone will be on duty to call
the police. In the case of a false alarm while you are home, you can call
them and give them your abort code which will stop them from dispatching
the police or fire dept. I would add a cellular backup transmitter so
that if the thieves cut the phone lines to your house, the signal will be
sent to the central station anyway and the authorities will be
dispatched.
5 Add at least 1 smoke detector to the system so if your home catches
fire while you are away at least the fire dept. will respond, hopefully
in time to prevent a total loss.
6 Connect all doors and operable windows to the system with magnetic
sensors. I would also tamper the covers on the electrical and telephone
panels so that the alarm would activate as soon as someone attempted to
cut the power or phone lines.
7 Infrared motion detectors are a second line of defense in case the
intruder gets past the door or window sensors somehow. If you have pets
get a "dual-tech" style detector that is more resistant to false alarms
from pets.
That pretty much covers the basics. I would contact a licensed alarm
contractor to give you an estimate. At that point you can decide if you
want to attempt the job yourself or let someone else do it. Make sure if
you hire someone that they are bonded and have undergone a background
check.
Hope this helps.
Steve
Doug Miller
Apr 6, 2012, 3:29:18 PM4/6/12
to
> Because of a recent burglary, I am going to install an alarm system in
> my single-family ranch home (no basement)that I reside in alone. The
> street is a quiet, family-oriented one (no loud cars, boom boxes,
> tough-looking guys of any age).
[snip discussion of alternatives]
> my single-family ranch home (no basement)that I reside in alone. The
> street is a quiet, family-oriented one (no loud cars, boom boxes,
> tough-looking guys of any age).
You left out the most obvious -- and most effective -- burglary deterrent there is: a dog. If
they hear a barking dog inside a house, most burglars will just go somewhere else. They're
looking for quick and easy pickings, not a hassle.
My wife and I are partial to Australian Shepherds, but herding dogs of nearly any breed are
ideal for this purpose: they've been bred to alert, vigorously, to the presence of intruders,
yet be gentle with their flock. This makes them excellent family dogs: they'll be friendly and
playful with you [and your family, should your current situation of living alone ever change],
but bark like the devil if a stranger comes to your door.
cl...@snyder.on.ca
Apr 6, 2012, 3:39:26 PM4/6/12
to
- but actually dummies, where they would be expected, and hide the
real ones. A cellular backup is almost standard equipment now on
monitored systems - and the whole system is set up to run off a backup
battery in case of power disconnect.
cl...@snyder.on.ca
Apr 6, 2012, 3:45:43 PM4/6/12
to
On Fri, 06 Apr 2012 11:31:19 -0500, Jim Yanik <jya...@abuse.gov>
wrote:
It's always best to know about them BEFORE they get in.
Perimeter detection is better than interior motion detectors. If you
carry a smart phone (which you do not) 2 way communication is
available - you get to see if anything is out of the ordinary on your
cameras, and speak to the house.
You can even answer the doorebell from across the world. If the
doorbell rings, your phone notifies you, and you can see who is at the
door. If they look suspicious you can tell them they've got 30 seconds
before you come out guns blazing, or whatever.
wrote:
Perimeter detection is better than interior motion detectors. If you
carry a smart phone (which you do not) 2 way communication is
available - you get to see if anything is out of the ordinary on your
cameras, and speak to the house.
You can even answer the doorebell from across the world. If the
doorbell rings, your phone notifies you, and you can see who is at the
door. If they look suspicious you can tell them they've got 30 seconds
before you come out guns blazing, or whatever.
Tony Hwang
Apr 6, 2012, 3:48:32 PM4/6/12
to
I left Ontario(used to live in Scarboro) about this time of the year
1970. I never looked back. U.S. has lot more population than Canada.
A fact to keep in mind when comparing two neighbors. Ontario the
province soon to be have not place.
cl...@snyder.on.ca
Apr 6, 2012, 3:49:46 PM4/6/12
to
your residents - and a $500 charge for the false alarms would be much
better spent fixing the system.
Tony Hwang
Apr 6, 2012, 3:55:10 PM4/6/12
to
Doug Miller wrote:
>
> My wife and I are partial to Australian Shepherds, but herding dogs of nearly any breed are
> ideal for this purpose: they've been bred to alert, vigorously, to the presence of intruders,
> yet be gentle with their flock. This makes them excellent family dogs: they'll be friendly and
> playful with you [and your family, should your current situation of living alone ever change],
> but bark like the devil if a stranger comes to your door.
I just lost our 10 yo Aussie shepherds. One of best dogs we had. It
developed a severe case of diabetes, went blind last year and quit
eating couple weeks ago. We had to have him put down. We already have
replacement in the house. After, I found out this breed is prone to
diabetes due to it's genetics. Don't let your dog go over weight, that
is warning sign.
cl...@snyder.on.ca
Apr 6, 2012, 4:03:17 PM4/6/12
to
installed an X10 alarm system with cameras and PC recorder - and a set
of Fiamm air horms - all run off a good UPS system so it works even 8
hours after the power is disconnected.
One miscreant left a patch of denim with better than a square inch of
skin/flesh from his shin on the "downspoout re-enforcement" at the
back corner of the trailer when he headed for the bush when the
flood-lights came on and blinded him.
That was the last episode - on a cold stormy winter night when the
power was out in the whole area and the guy must have figured the
"obvious" alarm system would be useless.
The neighbours know if they hear the air horn something untoward is
going on at the place on the bend - and they are often there, cell
phone in hand, by the time my brother is online checking out the
cameras. The last time the neighbour had the police called within
minutes. Didn't get the guy, but he spent a long cold (and apparently
painfull) night in the bush, because the cops were around for quite
some time waiting for him to come out. When my brother got there next
morning he found tracks leading from the bush to a house down the way
that is known to be trouble - no proof it was him, but apparently all
his bad-news buddies now know it's not worth the effort.
cl...@snyder.on.ca
Apr 6, 2012, 4:12:13 PM4/6/12
to
On Fri, 06 Apr 2012 14:44:52 -0400, George <geo...@nospam.invalid>
wrote:
Hey, Canada's not PERFECT, but you are a lot less likely to get shot
- and having an alarm makes it less likely you will be broken into -
and more likely that IF broken into the theif will leave empty-handed
- and do less damage.
I've installed a good half dozen alarm systems over the years - plus
alarms on several vehicles.
The alarm at the shop caught the guy who had been breaking into auto
repair shops in the area the FIRST NIGHT it was in operation - and
before he even got the door open. He was still trying to pry open the
(un-used, bolted) rear door of the shop when the cops responded to the
glass breakage detector that went off when he drove over the service
bell hose in front of the shop that the boss had forgoten to shut off
when he left the shop!!! They got there, did their walk-around, and
caught the guy busy with his crowbar.
wrote:
- and having an alarm makes it less likely you will be broken into -
and more likely that IF broken into the theif will leave empty-handed
- and do less damage.
I've installed a good half dozen alarm systems over the years - plus
alarms on several vehicles.
The alarm at the shop caught the guy who had been breaking into auto
repair shops in the area the FIRST NIGHT it was in operation - and
before he even got the door open. He was still trying to pry open the
(un-used, bolted) rear door of the shop when the cops responded to the
glass breakage detector that went off when he drove over the service
bell hose in front of the shop that the boss had forgoten to shut off
when he left the shop!!! They got there, did their walk-around, and
caught the guy busy with his crowbar.
cl...@snyder.on.ca
Apr 6, 2012, 4:14:48 PM4/6/12
to
alarm BEFORE they actually get inside if possible.
G. Morgan
Apr 6, 2012, 4:29:18 PM4/6/12
to
Rebel1 wrote:
>Thanks for your comments/feedback.
You'll get better answers in alt.security.alarms
its filled with professional installers.
--
I like refried beans. That's why I wanna try fried beans,
because maybe they're just as good and we're just wasting time.
You don't have to fry them again after all. -Mitch Hedberg
>Thanks for your comments/feedback.
You'll get better answers in alt.security.alarms
its filled with professional installers.
--
I like refried beans. That's why I wanna try fried beans,
because maybe they're just as good and we're just wasting time.
You don't have to fry them again after all. -Mitch Hedberg
gonjah
Apr 6, 2012, 4:31:42 PM4/6/12
to
I don't think fake stickers are a bad idea at all.
A good insurance policy is a good idea too. If you have one that
replaces stolen items at present value even better. You have to do a
cost benefit analysis but for me having a good policy paid off well.
I had security doors installed. They really don't look that bad, or they
didn't on my old house. Some say they are a hazard because they can be
difficult to escape in case of a fire. It's something to consider.
http://www.fourseasonssunrooms.com/Doors/images/SDOption/defender_security_door.jpg
That way the burglars can't walk right out the front door with your
stuff. They usually go with the path of least resistance. My neighbor
got a little upset when I put mine in but too bad. They don't cost that
much and he can buy his own if he doesn't like it.
I lived in a real high crime area (Abq NM) and after that we never got
burgled again.
gonjah
Apr 6, 2012, 4:36:45 PM4/6/12
to
ever got robbed.
Doug
Apr 6, 2012, 4:48:23 PM4/6/12
to
alarms. In my first home, it never happened for as long as I lived
there (years). In my 2nd home, it did give false alarms for the first
month till I had it adjusted correctly. Hasn't happened since for
over a decade and counting. I've tripped it myself by accident so in
that case I just shut it off or reset it.
gonjah
Apr 6, 2012, 4:53:26 PM4/6/12
to
Fu__ing thing was LOUD too. Often the cops would be there to help me open.
Home Guy
Apr 6, 2012, 6:36:11 PM4/6/12
to
"G. Morgan" wrote:
> You'll get better answers in alt.security.alarms
>
> its filled with professional installers.
If it's anything like alt.hvac then it's filled with professional
> You'll get better answers in alt.security.alarms
>
> its filled with professional installers.
assholes who piss all over "hoe-moaners".
gregz
Apr 6, 2012, 7:42:21 PM4/6/12
to
also can see outside. I got some fake ones.
Greg
gonjah
Apr 6, 2012, 8:04:41 PM4/6/12
to
exterior camera would have been nice but lighting, cost and maintenance
kept me from doing it. Didn't think about a fake one.
Anymore you gotta be real careful. Big Brother might be watching
anywhere. ;)
cl...@snyder.on.ca
Apr 6, 2012, 8:51:09 PM4/6/12
to
At my brother's shop he has has 2 false alarms. One was when a jack
handle fell on the floor and triggered a glass break alarm, and the
other was after the overhead door company seviced the roll-up door -
and we had a REAL strong noth wind that pushed the top panel of the
door in JUST enough to trigger the door micro-switch (magnetic reed
switch). I re-adjusted the door and it has never happened again -
that's in 16 years.
gonjah
Apr 6, 2012, 9:05:38 PM4/6/12
to
It would really piss me off when it went off in the middle of the night
and I was the closest manger so I always got the call.
It was one of those tied into the flashing fire lights. Sort of like a
scene out of the movie Aliens. A great way to start the pre-dawn day.
When you're hung-over even better. :)
I think we never got it fixed for numerous reasons. It's been almost 20
years ago.
cl...@snyder.on.ca
Apr 6, 2012, 10:42:17 PM4/6/12
to
an alarm system. The doors were open all day with the alarm shut off -
so anyone could walk in and walk out with anything they wanted - but
they had to have an alarm for when the doors were locked.
Couldn't get people with keys trained to shut the bloody thing off
when entering after hours - and being I lived only 2 blocks away, I
was the one that had to respond to the alarm when it went off.
The other problem was getting the last person to leave to lock ALL the
doors. Several times the wind caused an unlocked door to open,
tripping the alarm in the middle of a nasty winter storm at 2am.
When nothing changed after 2 years I told them they had to find
someone else to wake up in the middle of the night.
Ed Pawlowski
Apr 6, 2012, 11:25:08 PM4/6/12
to
>The considerations (aimed at burglar detection):
>1. A silent alarm so the cops might catch them in the act, vs. one that
>lights lights and beeps horns to scare them away (so they're free to
>strike elsewhere).
Someone here uses the tag line, "when seconds count, the police are
>1. A silent alarm so the cops might catch them in the act, vs. one that
>lights lights and beeps horns to scare them away (so they're free to
>strike elsewhere).
only minutes away.
You want them away from the house and afraid to even try an actual
break-in. Lights on motion detectors are the first line of defense.
Next is an intrusion alarm for the doors and windows. That too,
should turn on some light and sound an alarm.
>
>2. A silent alarm that signals me if I'm home, so I could defend myself
>with a gun.
prepared to defend my self and family, but my first preference is to
avoid the confrontation. I don't practice with a gun every day so
reality is, for safety, I'd rather keep it at the ready, but never
used.
>
>3. Beefed up barriers to entry, like locking bars for sliding doors, and
>high quality door locks. Problem is, if place looks too fortified,
>rather than being deterred burglars might see this as a sign that there
>is really valuable stuff inside and make a more determined (and
>damaging) effort to enter.
through the window frame and inserting a nail helps keep them from
being pried.
>Other measures (mainly home security):
>
>1. Lights on timers.
>2. Radio or TV on all the time.
>5. Double-key deadbolts on doors with glass panes, so burglars can't
>break a window and simply reach in and unlock a single-key deadbolt.
They are now considered a code violation in many places. One morning
>break a window and simply reach in and unlock a single-key deadbolt.
many years ago though, I found my back door window broken, but no
entry thanks to a double key lock.
>6. Fake decals warning that a system is installed even if not true.
Doug
Apr 7, 2012, 3:10:31 AM4/7/12
to
what you said has to do with the type of windows. I admit tho, you
are making me struggle to remember what I was told back then.
In my old house I think I had what you mentioned on my windows and in
one case, I believe it saved my house from a break in. I was very
glad I had an alarm.
Robert Green
Apr 7, 2012, 5:18:54 AM4/7/12
to
<cl...@snyder.on.ca> wrote in message
news:n4iun7tkc6ucasv9r...@4ax.com...
<stuff snipped>
> If you have false alarms something is wrong with your system, or
> your residents - and a $500 charge for the false alarms would be much
> better spent fixing the system.
Agreed. There are a lot of ways to help prevent falsing and I'd investigate
those before deciding I didn't want the protection of an alarm just because
of the false triggers. Sometimes it means switching to different kinds of
sensors.
About 20 years ago when I installed my systems (there are three - two have
to agree to send an alarm to the central station) I had no end of trouble
with glass-break detectors going off whenever there was a thunderstorm so I
removed them all. I used thin metal foil varnished onto the window (very
old school!) to replace the glassbreaks on the rear basement windows, a
favorite entry point for thieves. I covered the glass top half of the
basement door (people were SO trusting 80 years ago) with thick bullet-proof
Lexan I got when a local plastics place went under and had a fire sale.
I understand glass-break detectors have gotten much, much better and I may
reconsider them, but they were almost guaranteed to false with enough
thunder present. It may still be a problem because whenever there's a loud
enough thunderclap, four or five car alarms start sounding.
Most insurers will give you a discount for a central station alarm. If you
have a claims history for burglary, they may DEMAND it.
--
Bobby G.
news:n4iun7tkc6ucasv9r...@4ax.com...
<stuff snipped>
> If you have false alarms something is wrong with your system, or
> your residents - and a $500 charge for the false alarms would be much
> better spent fixing the system.
those before deciding I didn't want the protection of an alarm just because
of the false triggers. Sometimes it means switching to different kinds of
sensors.
About 20 years ago when I installed my systems (there are three - two have
to agree to send an alarm to the central station) I had no end of trouble
with glass-break detectors going off whenever there was a thunderstorm so I
removed them all. I used thin metal foil varnished onto the window (very
old school!) to replace the glassbreaks on the rear basement windows, a
favorite entry point for thieves. I covered the glass top half of the
basement door (people were SO trusting 80 years ago) with thick bullet-proof
Lexan I got when a local plastics place went under and had a fire sale.
I understand glass-break detectors have gotten much, much better and I may
reconsider them, but they were almost guaranteed to false with enough
thunder present. It may still be a problem because whenever there's a loud
enough thunderclap, four or five car alarms start sounding.
Most insurers will give you a discount for a central station alarm. If you
have a claims history for burglary, they may DEMAND it.
--
Bobby G.
Robert Green
Apr 7, 2012, 5:20:52 AM4/7/12
to
"Doug" <noemail...@msn.com> wrote in message
> > If you have false alarms something is wrong with your system, or
> >your residents - and a $500 charge for the false alarms would be much
> >better spent fixing the system.
> You are correct. A correctly installed system shouldn't give false
> alarms. In my first home, it never happened for as long as I lived
> there (years). In my 2nd home, it did give false alarms for the first
> month till I had it adjusted correctly. Hasn't happened since for
> over a decade and counting. I've tripped it myself by accident so in
> that case I just shut it off or reset it.
Often it's user error. Sometimes it's bad design. In either case, it's not
impossible to figure out what causes the falsing and to get rid of it.
--
Bobby G.
> > If you have false alarms something is wrong with your system, or
> >your residents - and a $500 charge for the false alarms would be much
> >better spent fixing the system.
> You are correct. A correctly installed system shouldn't give false
> alarms. In my first home, it never happened for as long as I lived
> there (years). In my 2nd home, it did give false alarms for the first
> month till I had it adjusted correctly. Hasn't happened since for
> over a decade and counting. I've tripped it myself by accident so in
> that case I just shut it off or reset it.
impossible to figure out what causes the falsing and to get rid of it.
--
Bobby G.
Robert Green
Apr 7, 2012, 5:29:53 AM4/7/12
to
"Robert Macy" <robert...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:4a40d72f-8f94-4ef8-94ff-
<stuff snipped>
<<Thus, used the dead spaces under our cabinetry in bathroom and kitchen
and built fake back walls into several closets. I converted the
kickstep covers for the cabinetry to become removable. Each was held
in place with those "push to open" latches. Contents under cabinets
were those heavy coin collections etc, heavy, thin flat items, more
than 200 lb total. The spaces made by the fake back walls in the
closets were to enclose larger items, like sterlingware, special
jewelry, etc. and wife's collection of furs. NOBODY knew about the
false areas, except us.>>
Good ideas!
<<Then added a more conventional, and prominent, bolt down safe to occupy
anyone who wanted to hang around and get the lollipop out of it.>>
Great idea. You KNOW they are going to waste their time trying to open or
remove the safe. Every second you delay them with the decoy safe means it's
one less second they can spend looking for the real treasure.
--
Bobby G.
news:4a40d72f-8f94-4ef8-94ff-
<stuff snipped>
<<Thus, used the dead spaces under our cabinetry in bathroom and kitchen
and built fake back walls into several closets. I converted the
kickstep covers for the cabinetry to become removable. Each was held
in place with those "push to open" latches. Contents under cabinets
were those heavy coin collections etc, heavy, thin flat items, more
than 200 lb total. The spaces made by the fake back walls in the
closets were to enclose larger items, like sterlingware, special
jewelry, etc. and wife's collection of furs. NOBODY knew about the
false areas, except us.>>
<<Then added a more conventional, and prominent, bolt down safe to occupy
anyone who wanted to hang around and get the lollipop out of it.>>
remove the safe. Every second you delay them with the decoy safe means it's
one less second they can spend looking for the real treasure.
--
Bobby G.
Robert Green
Apr 7, 2012, 5:53:35 AM4/7/12
to
"Home Guy" <Ho...@Guy.com> wrote in message news:4F7F2C33...@Guy.com...
<stuff snipped>
> In the 12 years that I've had the alarm at the office, there hasn't ever
> been a break-in, but there have been false-alarms caused by the motion
> sensors (this seemed to happen during very cold winter nights when the
> furnace would kick on and blow warm air over the windows, possibly
> causing the blinds to move around).
Had a similar experience on the day I was to do a very big briefing. In
this case, I had a dark suit in a plastic bag that was hanging over a floor
vent in front of an open window. The suit moved slightly from the hot air
coming out of the vent an triggered the alarm. Now, I've designed the
system so that TWO independent motion sensors have to detect motion to "put
the call through" to the monitoring station. My panel (brain fart, can't
remember the maker) interfaces with X-10, so I can poll those detectors to
see if more than one has fired.
> Door sensors are highly reliable and almost never give false alarms.
I try to rely on them more than glass breaks, motion sensors or ultrasonic
detectors. The problem is that burglars entering through the windows only
open the door on their way out. Too late AFAIAC.
> A burglar would also hear the tone upon entering the premises, and he
> might decide to just turn around and leave because he knows that a
> response will happen within minutes.
That's imputing more intelligence to your basic junkie burglar than I would.
The tone should be loud for the owner, because forgetting to turn the system
off is a well-known false alarm producer.
> For a home situation, it's very ergonomic to set up a home PC to perform
> the video recording from the camera. As long as the PC isin't stolen,
> you'll have a video record of who broke into your home (or who rang your
> door bell, etc).
I have a number of CCTV video recorders distributed throughout the house and
an old CCTV VCR right near the front door so that a thief can steal it,
thinking he's taken away any record of his being there. Sort of like the
lollipop in the safe idea. (-:
> I'm probably going to buy something called a "trail-cam". It's a camera
> normally used by hunters and biologists that want to record pictures of
> animals in remote locations. These cameras have motion detectors and
> have very good night-vision capability, and have batteries that can last
> up to a year, and can take thousands of hi-rez pictures over that time.
Don't believe the battery life claims. I have one and it's got to be
checked every few weeks. Even with 8 AA's powering it, it chews through
batteries. They're too damn easy to steal, though.
Most burglars will pound on your door or ring your doorbell for quite some
time (usually with some BS story to tell you if you answer the door) to
determine that you're not home. That's the moment to concentrate on. You
need to make them fear that you ARE home but that you just don't want to
talk to them. At one point I was considering hooking up an old telephone
answering machine to respond to any intercom press when we were away with
"No thank you, we're not interested!" That would probably neutralize half
the potential burglary threats if not more.
--
Bobby G.
<stuff snipped>
> In the 12 years that I've had the alarm at the office, there hasn't ever
> been a break-in, but there have been false-alarms caused by the motion
> sensors (this seemed to happen during very cold winter nights when the
> furnace would kick on and blow warm air over the windows, possibly
> causing the blinds to move around).
Had a similar experience on the day I was to do a very big briefing. In
this case, I had a dark suit in a plastic bag that was hanging over a floor
vent in front of an open window. The suit moved slightly from the hot air
coming out of the vent an triggered the alarm. Now, I've designed the
system so that TWO independent motion sensors have to detect motion to "put
the call through" to the monitoring station. My panel (brain fart, can't
remember the maker) interfaces with X-10, so I can poll those detectors to
see if more than one has fired.
> Door sensors are highly reliable and almost never give false alarms.
I try to rely on them more than glass breaks, motion sensors or ultrasonic
detectors. The problem is that burglars entering through the windows only
open the door on their way out. Too late AFAIAC.
> A burglar would also hear the tone upon entering the premises, and he
> might decide to just turn around and leave because he knows that a
> response will happen within minutes.
That's imputing more intelligence to your basic junkie burglar than I would.
The tone should be loud for the owner, because forgetting to turn the system
off is a well-known false alarm producer.
> For a home situation, it's very ergonomic to set up a home PC to perform
> the video recording from the camera. As long as the PC isin't stolen,
> you'll have a video record of who broke into your home (or who rang your
> door bell, etc).
I have a number of CCTV video recorders distributed throughout the house and
an old CCTV VCR right near the front door so that a thief can steal it,
thinking he's taken away any record of his being there. Sort of like the
lollipop in the safe idea. (-:
> I'm probably going to buy something called a "trail-cam". It's a camera
> normally used by hunters and biologists that want to record pictures of
> animals in remote locations. These cameras have motion detectors and
> have very good night-vision capability, and have batteries that can last
> up to a year, and can take thousands of hi-rez pictures over that time.
Don't believe the battery life claims. I have one and it's got to be
checked every few weeks. Even with 8 AA's powering it, it chews through
batteries. They're too damn easy to steal, though.
Most burglars will pound on your door or ring your doorbell for quite some
time (usually with some BS story to tell you if you answer the door) to
determine that you're not home. That's the moment to concentrate on. You
need to make them fear that you ARE home but that you just don't want to
talk to them. At one point I was considering hooking up an old telephone
answering machine to respond to any intercom press when we were away with
"No thank you, we're not interested!" That would probably neutralize half
the potential burglary threats if not more.
--
Bobby G.
Robert Green
Apr 7, 2012, 5:54:20 AM4/7/12
to
"George" <geo...@nospam.invalid> wrote in message
news:jlndi8$s50$1...@dont-email.me...
--
Bobby G.
news:jlndi8$s50$1...@dont-email.me...
> On 4/6/2012 1:47 PM, Home Guy wrote:
> You go on and on ad naseum how perfect everything is in Canada. So why
> would you need an alarm system in Canada?
American infiltrators, of course! (-;
> You go on and on ad naseum how perfect everything is in Canada. So why
> would you need an alarm system in Canada?
--
Bobby G.
Robert Green
Apr 7, 2012, 5:57:37 AM4/7/12
to
"Tony Hwang" <drag...@shaw.ca> wrote in message
news:W3Gfr.34478$yD7....@newsfe15.iad...
> How about a good trained guard dog. No matter how good security shield
> you deploy, bad guys are always one step ahead of you. I have a live-in
> domestic helper and a professionally trained guard dog. Alarm system
> is very seldom armed.
They're useful to people who are mostly home, but for the OP, who says he's
gone for weeks at a time, I don't think it will help much. He'll either
have to board the dog or depend on neighbors to feed and care for him. That
opens up several cans of worms at once.
--
Bobby G.
news:W3Gfr.34478$yD7....@newsfe15.iad...
>
>
> Rebel1 wrote:
> > Because of a recent burglary, I am going to install an alarm system in
> > my single-family ranch home (no basement)that I reside in alone. The
> > street is a quiet, family-oriented one (no loud cars, boom boxes,
> > tough-looking guys of any age).
>
> Hi,
>
> Rebel1 wrote:
> > Because of a recent burglary, I am going to install an alarm system in
> > my single-family ranch home (no basement)that I reside in alone. The
> > street is a quiet, family-oriented one (no loud cars, boom boxes,
> > tough-looking guys of any age).
>
> How about a good trained guard dog. No matter how good security shield
> you deploy, bad guys are always one step ahead of you. I have a live-in
> domestic helper and a professionally trained guard dog. Alarm system
> is very seldom armed.
They're useful to people who are mostly home, but for the OP, who says he's
gone for weeks at a time, I don't think it will help much. He'll either
have to board the dog or depend on neighbors to feed and care for him. That
opens up several cans of worms at once.
--
Bobby G.
Robert Green
Apr 7, 2012, 6:06:13 AM4/7/12
to
"Doug Miller" <doug_at_mil...@example.com> wrote in message
news:XnsA02D9D876FA...@88.198.244.100...
>
> You left out the most obvious -- and most effective -- burglary deterrent
there is: a dog. If
> they hear a barking dog inside a house, most burglars will just go
somewhere else. They're
> looking for quick and easy pickings, not a hassle.
I have both a real dog (JRT) and an electronic dog:
http://www.x10.com/products/x10_pk9.htm
I'd consider the electrodog much more effective and easier to care for. (-:
A much better solution for people who travel a lot. The new units are much
more flexible than the older ones I have and this thread has spurred me to
pick up a newer one.
There's also a unit out that simulates a TV using LEDs. Very low power
drain and very useful to give a house that lived-in look.
http://www.amazon.com/Hydreon-Corporation-FTV-10-Burglar-Deterrent/dp/B003S5SOLG
--
Bobby G.
news:XnsA02D9D876FA...@88.198.244.100...
> > Because of a recent burglary, I am going to install an alarm system in
> > my single-family ranch home (no basement)that I reside in alone. The
> > street is a quiet, family-oriented one (no loud cars, boom boxes,
> > tough-looking guys of any age).
>
> [snip discussion of alternatives]
> > my single-family ranch home (no basement)that I reside in alone. The
> > street is a quiet, family-oriented one (no loud cars, boom boxes,
> > tough-looking guys of any age).
>
>
> You left out the most obvious -- and most effective -- burglary deterrent
there is: a dog. If
> they hear a barking dog inside a house, most burglars will just go
somewhere else. They're
> looking for quick and easy pickings, not a hassle.
I have both a real dog (JRT) and an electronic dog:
http://www.x10.com/products/x10_pk9.htm
I'd consider the electrodog much more effective and easier to care for. (-:
A much better solution for people who travel a lot. The new units are much
more flexible than the older ones I have and this thread has spurred me to
pick up a newer one.
There's also a unit out that simulates a TV using LEDs. Very low power
drain and very useful to give a house that lived-in look.
http://www.amazon.com/Hydreon-Corporation-FTV-10-Burglar-Deterrent/dp/B003S5SOLG
--
Bobby G.
bob haller
Apr 7, 2012, 7:29:11 AM4/7/12
to
lets all remember if someone wants in bad enough they will find a way:
(
its best to keep a low profile, valuables not in plain site, dont tell
anyone i have a diamond in the cookie jar, stuff like this is near
free and mostly effective.
dead bot locks where the dead bolt goes not only thru the plate but
into and thru a 2 by 4 stud wall saved me once.
having the home look lived in, with lights on timers etc, getting
someone to pick up mail and phone books and trash left around yard
helps too.
ultimattely if they want in bad enough they will get in.......
(
its best to keep a low profile, valuables not in plain site, dont tell
anyone i have a diamond in the cookie jar, stuff like this is near
free and mostly effective.
dead bot locks where the dead bolt goes not only thru the plate but
into and thru a 2 by 4 stud wall saved me once.
having the home look lived in, with lights on timers etc, getting
someone to pick up mail and phone books and trash left around yard
helps too.
ultimattely if they want in bad enough they will get in.......
Robert Green
Apr 7, 2012, 7:39:15 AM4/7/12
to
<cl...@snyder.on.ca> wrote in message
news:5biun71k8a9jjcbhi...@4ax.com...
<stuff snipped>
> My brother's vacation home/trailer was a target for theives until he
> installed an X10 alarm system with cameras and PC recorder - and a set
> of Fiamm air horms - all run off a good UPS system so it works even 8
> hours after the power is disconnected.
Our neighborhood got hit hard during a recent blackout with several houses
broken into. My X-10 REX electronic dog has been beefed up with a 12V gel
cell that runs it for 72 plus hours.
http://www.x10.com/products/x10_pk9.htm
Hearing a dog apparently barking in the basement when the neighborhood is
eerily quite from a blackout gives burglars (and Jehovah's Witnesses) pause.
It's run by battery operated motion detectors so it appears to "respond" to
their movement. My neighbor's cat thinks it's real and no longer comes to
my porch to visit.
> One miscreant left a patch of denim with better than a square inch of
> skin/flesh from his shin on the "downspoout re-enforcement" at the
> back corner of the trailer when he headed for the bush when the
> flood-lights came on and blinded him.
Start collecting DNA samples from your neighbors. (-:
> That was the last episode - on a cold stormy winter night when the
> power was out in the whole area and the guy must have figured the
> "obvious" alarm system would be useless.
When my car was broken into a long, long time ago, it was during a very bad
rainstorm. Thieves like to have the cover of darkness and they know fewer
people are likely to be out of their houses to catch them in bad weather.
--
Bobby G.
news:5biun71k8a9jjcbhi...@4ax.com...
<stuff snipped>
> My brother's vacation home/trailer was a target for theives until he
> installed an X10 alarm system with cameras and PC recorder - and a set
> of Fiamm air horms - all run off a good UPS system so it works even 8
> hours after the power is disconnected.
broken into. My X-10 REX electronic dog has been beefed up with a 12V gel
cell that runs it for 72 plus hours.
http://www.x10.com/products/x10_pk9.htm
Hearing a dog apparently barking in the basement when the neighborhood is
eerily quite from a blackout gives burglars (and Jehovah's Witnesses) pause.
It's run by battery operated motion detectors so it appears to "respond" to
their movement. My neighbor's cat thinks it's real and no longer comes to
my porch to visit.
> One miscreant left a patch of denim with better than a square inch of
> skin/flesh from his shin on the "downspoout re-enforcement" at the
> back corner of the trailer when he headed for the bush when the
> flood-lights came on and blinded him.
> That was the last episode - on a cold stormy winter night when the
> power was out in the whole area and the guy must have figured the
> "obvious" alarm system would be useless.
rainstorm. Thieves like to have the cover of darkness and they know fewer
people are likely to be out of their houses to catch them in bad weather.
--
Bobby G.
Stormin Mormon
Apr 7, 2012, 7:50:04 AM4/7/12
to
My friend,
I think you're right. Of course, burglars are lazy. So, if your house is
protected, they will go to a different house.
You can expect HeBe-ub to give you grief, now. Read the "who is it"
thread to understand why.
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.
"bob haller" <hal...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:0ff45f1e-441b-4b20...@l4g2000vbt.googlegroups.com...
I think you're right. Of course, burglars are lazy. So, if your house is
protected, they will go to a different house.
You can expect HeBe-ub to give you grief, now. Read the "who is it"
thread to understand why.
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.
"bob haller" <hal...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:0ff45f1e-441b-4b20...@l4g2000vbt.googlegroups.com...
Stormin Mormon
Apr 7, 2012, 7:56:32 AM4/7/12
to
My friend,
I have known people whose pets got diabetes. No fun at all.
Hi,
I just lost our 10 yo Aussie shepherds. One of best dogs we had. It
developed a severe case of diabetes, went blind last year and quit
eating couple weeks ago. We had to have him put down. We already have
replacement in the house. After, I found out this breed is prone to
diabetes due to it's genetics. Don't let your dog go over weight, that
is warning sign.
I have known people whose pets got diabetes. No fun at all.
You can expect HeBe-ub to give you grief, now. Read the "who is it"
thread to understand why.
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.
thread to understand why.
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.
"Tony Hwang" <drag...@shaw.ca> wrote in message
news:CSHfr.28248$cd7....@newsfe06.iad...
Hi,
I just lost our 10 yo Aussie shepherds. One of best dogs we had. It
developed a severe case of diabetes, went blind last year and quit
eating couple weeks ago. We had to have him put down. We already have
replacement in the house. After, I found out this breed is prone to
diabetes due to it's genetics. Don't let your dog go over weight, that
is warning sign.
George
Apr 7, 2012, 8:31:49 AM4/7/12
to
On 4/6/2012 3:48 PM, Tony Hwang wrote:
>
>
> Home Guy wrote:
>> George wrote:
>>
>>>> My experience with alarm systems is that I've installed 3 alarm
>>>> systems over the past 13 years
>>
>> After 14 years of having alarm systems at two locations - and not a
>> single attempted or actual break-in, I clearly don't have as much of a
>> need for an alarm system as you do in the United States of Thievery.
> Hmmm,
> I left Ontario(used to live in Scarboro) about this time of the year
> 1970. I never looked back. U.S. has lot more population than Canada.
> A fact to keep in mind when comparing two neighbors. Ontario the
> province soon to be have not place.
"home guy" always demonstrates that he is totally incapable of any
reasoned or logical thinking...
>
>
> Home Guy wrote:
>> George wrote:
>>
>>>> My experience with alarm systems is that I've installed 3 alarm
>>>> systems over the past 13 years
>>>
>>> You go on and on ad naseum how perfect everything is in Canada.
>>
>> Yes I do. And it is.
>>> You go on and on ad naseum how perfect everything is in Canada.
>>
>>
>>> So why would you need an alarm system in Canada?
>>
>> I see your point.
>>> So why would you need an alarm system in Canada?
>>
>>
>> After 14 years of having alarm systems at two locations - and not a
>> single attempted or actual break-in, I clearly don't have as much of a
>> need for an alarm system as you do in the United States of Thievery.
> Hmmm,
> I left Ontario(used to live in Scarboro) about this time of the year
> 1970. I never looked back. U.S. has lot more population than Canada.
> A fact to keep in mind when comparing two neighbors. Ontario the
> province soon to be have not place.
"home guy" always demonstrates that he is totally incapable of any
reasoned or logical thinking...
George
Apr 7, 2012, 8:34:59 AM4/7/12
to
On 4/6/2012 2:58 PM, Home Guy wrote:
> George wrote:
>
>>> My experience with alarm systems is that I've installed 3 alarm
>>> systems over the past 13 years
>>
>> You go on and on ad naseum how perfect everything is in Canada.
>
> Yes I do. And it is.
>
>> So why would you need an alarm system in Canada?
>
> I see your point.
>
> After 14 years of having alarm systems at two locations - and not a
> single attempted or actual break-in, I clearly don't have as much of a
> need for an alarm system as you do in the United States of Thievery.
I guess I am confused. You imagine you live in a perfect place where
> George wrote:
>
>>> My experience with alarm systems is that I've installed 3 alarm
>>> systems over the past 13 years
>>
>> You go on and on ad naseum how perfect everything is in Canada.
>
> Yes I do. And it is.
>
>> So why would you need an alarm system in Canada?
>
> I see your point.
>
> After 14 years of having alarm systems at two locations - and not a
> single attempted or actual break-in, I clearly don't have as much of a
> need for an alarm system as you do in the United States of Thievery.
there is sunshine every day and the animals sing. So why did you go
through the effort to install an alarm in your perfect place?
George
Apr 7, 2012, 8:36:48 AM4/7/12
to
On 4/6/2012 4:12 PM, cl...@snyder.on.ca wrote:
>>> location) and once in my home.
>>
>> You go on and on ad naseum how perfect everything is in Canada. So why
> - and having an alarm makes it less likely you will be broken into -
> and more likely that IF broken into the theif will leave empty-handed
> - and do less damage.
I am really confused now. "home guy" says EVERYONE in Canada knows that
it is superior to the US and you don't?
> I've installed a good half dozen alarm systems over the years - plus
> alarms on several vehicles.
> The alarm at the shop caught the guy who had been breaking into auto
> repair shops in the area the FIRST NIGHT it was in operation - and
> before he even got the door open. He was still trying to pry open the
> (un-used, bolted) rear door of the shop when the cops responded to the
> glass breakage detector that went off when he drove over the service
> bell hose in front of the shop that the boss had forgoten to shut off
> when he left the shop!!! They got there, did their walk-around, and
> caught the guy busy with his crowbar.
> On Fri, 06 Apr 2012 14:44:52 -0400, George<geo...@nospam.invalid>
> wrote:
>
>> On 4/6/2012 1:47 PM, Home Guy wrote:
> wrote:
>
>> On 4/6/2012 1:47 PM, Home Guy wrote:
>>> Rebel1 wrote:
>>>
>>>> Because of a recent burglary, I am going to install an alarm system
>>>> in my single-family ranch home (no basement)that I reside in alone.
>>>
>>>
>>>> Because of a recent burglary, I am going to install an alarm system
>>>> in my single-family ranch home (no basement)that I reside in alone.
>>>
>>>> The considerations (aimed at burglar detection):
>>>> 1. A silent alarm so the cops might catch them in the act,
>>>>
>>>> 1. A silent alarm so the cops might catch them in the act,
>>>>
>>>> 2. A silent alarm that signals me if I'm home, so I could defend
>>>> myself with a gun.
>>>>
>>>> myself with a gun.
>>>>
>>>> 3. Beefed up barriers to entry, like locking bars for sliding
>>>> doors, and high quality door locks.
>>>>
>>>> doors, and high quality door locks.
>>>>
>>>> 4. How easy is it to defeat?
>>>
>>>
>>> My experience with alarm systems is that I've installed 3 alarm systems
>>> over the past 13 years - twice at my office (which moved to a different
>>> location) and once in my home.
>>
>> You go on and on ad naseum how perfect everything is in Canada. So why
>> would you need an alarm system in Canada?
>>
> Hey, Canada's not PERFECT, but you are a lot less likely to get shot
>>
> - and having an alarm makes it less likely you will be broken into -
> and more likely that IF broken into the theif will leave empty-handed
> - and do less damage.
I am really confused now. "home guy" says EVERYONE in Canada knows that
it is superior to the US and you don't?
> I've installed a good half dozen alarm systems over the years - plus
> alarms on several vehicles.
> The alarm at the shop caught the guy who had been breaking into auto
> repair shops in the area the FIRST NIGHT it was in operation - and
> before he even got the door open. He was still trying to pry open the
> (un-used, bolted) rear door of the shop when the cops responded to the
> glass breakage detector that went off when he drove over the service
> bell hose in front of the shop that the boss had forgoten to shut off
> when he left the shop!!! They got there, did their walk-around, and
> caught the guy busy with his crowbar.
tra...@optonline.net
Apr 7, 2012, 9:26:35 AM4/7/12
to
On Apr 6, 3:39 pm, cl...@snyder.on.ca wrote:
> On Fri, 06 Apr 2012 11:12:43 -0400, Rebel1 <Reb...@optonline.net>
> On Fri, 06 Apr 2012 11:12:43 -0400, Rebel1 <Reb...@optonline.net>
> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> >Because of a recent burglary, I am going to install an alarm system in
> >my single-family ranch home (no basement)that I reside in alone. The
>
>
>
>
>
> >Because of a recent burglary, I am going to install an alarm system in
> >my single-family ranch home (no basement)that I reside in alone. The
> >street is a quiet, family-oriented one (no loud cars, boom boxes,
> >tough-looking guys of any age).
>
> >tough-looking guys of any age).
>
> >The considerations (aimed at burglar detection):
> >1. A silent alarm so the cops might catch them in the act, vs. one that
> >lights lights and beeps horns to scare them away (so they're free to
> >strike elsewhere).
>
> >lights lights and beeps horns to scare them away (so they're free to
> >strike elsewhere).
>
> >2. A silent alarm that signals me if I'm home, so I could defend myself
> >with a gun. If I'm away, the alarm could notify a next-door neighbor, a
> >monitoring service, or the police. Police allow three false alarms a
> >year before charging. (I believe there are systems that will call my
> >cell phone, but it's always off and in my car, as it is used only for
> >calls that I originate.)
>
> >monitoring service, or the police. Police allow three false alarms a
> >year before charging. (I believe there are systems that will call my
> >cell phone, but it's always off and in my car, as it is used only for
> >calls that I originate.)
>
> >3. Beefed up barriers to entry, like locking bars for sliding doors, and
>
> >it appears to address my concerns and many, many factors that I have not
> >considered. I can't tell, however, if he addresses defeating the systems
> >(consideration 4 above).
>
> >One of the reviewers was annoyed because the book was self-published (so
> >what?) and because there were no specific product recommendations. The
> >other reviews gave it high marks for at least pointing out
> >vulnerabilities you may have.
>
> >Thanks for your comments/feedback.
>
> >R1
>
> As for defeating the system - put OBVIOUS phone and cable connections
> >it appears to address my concerns and many, many factors that I have not
> >considered. I can't tell, however, if he addresses defeating the systems
> >(consideration 4 above).
>
> >One of the reviewers was annoyed because the book was self-published (so
> >what?) and because there were no specific product recommendations. The
> >other reviews gave it high marks for at least pointing out
> >vulnerabilities you may have.
>
> >Thanks for your comments/feedback.
>
> >R1
>
> - but actually dummies, where they would be expected, and hide the
> real ones. A cellular backup is almost standard equipment now on
> monitored systems - and the whole system is set up to run off a backup
> battery in case of power disconnect.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
I don't know about Canada, but when I checked about a year
ago here in the USA there was quite a
big price differential between a monitored service you can get
via phone or internet connection and one that includes cellular
backup. You could be paying $50 more a month for the cellular
one. Whether it's worth it depends on what you have to protect,
how prevalent crime is in your area, etc. I suspect any system
that goes off is going to send 99% of the thieves running.
You could probably find a sticker that says "Protected by a
cellular system", even if you don't have one, which might
add some discouragement.
I think for most people seeking one, a good system that is
installed correctly, with loud sirens inside and outside the
house, that is monitored in some way can be effective.
As for the OP's silent alarm so that police can catch the burglar,
forget that. Police get lots of alarm calls and almost all
of them are false. There is no guarantee as to how fast
they will respond. You want the perp detered before he
actually enters the building if possible. An alarm going
off when they force a door or break glass can do that.
Same thing for the silent alarm so you can use your
gun to defend your property. You want the burglar
defeated before they even enter the house, by the
alarm going off. Or failing that, as soon after they
enter the house as possible. The gun is for last
resort.
Also, some mention was made of having the alarm
system contact a neighbor. In most cases, I think
that is a bad idea with all kinds of problems. Ranging
from the neighbor getting false alarm calls at 3AM.
To, what do you want the neighbor to do? Go over
and find out if a burglar is really there? How about
the burglar attacks them or since the alarm should
also have gone to the police, they show up and
the neighbor winds up against the wall or worse?
Peter
Apr 7, 2012, 9:56:52 AM4/7/12
to
>
>
> it appears to address my concerns and many, many factors that I have not
> considered. I can't tell, however, if he addresses defeating the systems
> (consideration 4 above).
>
> One of the reviewers was annoyed because the book was self-published (so
> what?) and because there were no specific product recommendations. The
> other reviews gave it high marks for at least pointing out
> vulnerabilities you may have.
>
> Thanks for your comments/feedback.
>
> R1
>
>
You need to decide what your risk is, and who is likely to provide that
>
> it appears to address my concerns and many, many factors that I have not
> considered. I can't tell, however, if he addresses defeating the systems
> (consideration 4 above).
>
> One of the reviewers was annoyed because the book was self-published (so
> what?) and because there were no specific product recommendations. The
> other reviews gave it high marks for at least pointing out
> vulnerabilities you may have.
>
> Thanks for your comments/feedback.
>
> R1
>
>
risk. If your neighborhood has had few burglers your risk is probably
low. If it has had many..... Are you really trying to protect
valuables or are more concerned about personal safety if you are home
during an attempted break-in? Are your valuables insured? Are they
replaceable if stolen? How important would it be to replace them if
only of sentimental value? Are the burglars you are concerned about
likely to be amateurs or professional?
The answers to these questions will guide you to what type of security
investment is most appropriate for your circumstances. There is not one
optimal solution for all situations.
And, with the rare exception of certain types of military sites, almost
every conceivable valuable and security protected place has been
burglarized at one time or another. So, you need to realize that you
will not be preventing burglary, only making it less likely.
cl...@snyder.on.ca
Apr 7, 2012, 10:39:04 AM4/7/12
to
On Sat, 07 Apr 2012 02:10:31 -0500, "Doug" <noemail...@msn.com>
wrote:
Dual mode detects thump and tinkle. Much less liable to false trigger
from thingls like wind chimes, telephones, or doorbells.
wrote:
from thingls like wind chimes, telephones, or doorbells.
Home Guy
Apr 7, 2012, 10:46:25 AM4/7/12
to
bob haller wrote:
> lets all remember if someone wants in bad enough they will find
> a way:
That's not a very rational or realistic piece of advice, because it's
> lets all remember if someone wants in bad enough they will find
> a way:
probably true that the average juvenille delinquent doesn't necessarily
have a strong desire to enter any particular house. He just wants to
enter at least ONE house as he trolls around looking for a candidate.
> ultimattely if they want in bad enough they will get in.......
could be in your house to give them a strong desire to break-in in the
first place.
So I question the idea that someone, anyone, will want to break into any
house "bad enough". The only people that would ever want to break into
your house "bad enough" are the police and firemen.
It's probably the case that the average juvenille delinquent who is out
on a house-robbing adventure is going to troll through a neighborhood
that is relatively far from where he lives. This is because he doesn't
want to be recognized by any locals after the fact. As such, he won't
have much of an opportunity to "case" any particular house if he follows
this sort of behavior.
cl...@snyder.on.ca
Apr 7, 2012, 10:48:58 AM4/7/12
to
collar that openned the "doggy door" and the on-demand feeder, so they
could leave the dog at home alone for a week or too with no problem.
They left for a week's holiday and the first or second night they were
gone a guy broke in. The dog cornered him in the livingroom and put
the "fear of the lord" in him. The dog could eat without loosing sight
of him - and could also hang his ass out the door to do his business,
but the poor bugger who broke in couldn't move 6 feet without risking
having some important parts dissapear. When they returned the guy was
very dehydrated, very tired,very stinky, and VERY pissed off!!
Rebel1
Apr 7, 2012, 11:38:08 AM4/7/12
to
On 4/6/2012 12:38 PM, Robert Green wrote:
> "Rebel1"<Reb...@optonline.net> wrote in message
> news:4f7f07eb$0$30079$607e...@cv.net...
> Sadly, part of good protection means that you make yourself less of a
> potential target and that makes your neighbors more of one.
> alerted to a problem in your house ASAP, too. Silent alarm + you wandering
> around armed when the cops arrive could = dead you.
> much is too much?
> alarms. You can have alarm sensors setups that detect the cutting of the
> phone line and start the sirens and bells on battery backup. That causes
> your neighbors to call the police - what I call the "human wireless
> network." No monthly fee.
>
>> 5. Camera: Do they really do much good in deterring via their visible e
> obvious. A whole street of cars got broken into just outside the range of
> my front door cam. I figure it was our local crackhead who knew to stay
> clear of the camera. Caught one burglar on CCTV, but not the way you'd
> think. Just walked in the house and turned on the lights and the CCTV
> monitor that's on the same switch. Saw someone walking along the side of
> the house (11PM!), grabbed my 2 million candlepower spot and shined it on
> his face, not realizing it had burned out his night vision. The cops were
> called while I questioned the guy. They came *amazingly* fast.
>
> As for the chance of actually making an ID off the typical consumer grade
> CCTV stuff from late at night? Very small. Put on a hoodie and even the
> prosumer stuff won't be able to tell Zimmerman from Martin a distances
> greater than 20 feet. Video from nite IR cams (except for the stuff NatGeo
> uses) and recording equipment looks green and white or black and white and
> is usually pretty awful recorded at anything less than HQ. Many consumer
> CCTV recorders don't even offer an HQ option since it eats so much disk
> space.
> radio play in a back room. I also have one of their REX electronic dogs
> that barks (very convincingly!) when motion is detected on the porch.
> you a safety walkaound. They can give you lots of important local info,
> too.
>
> --
> Bobby G.
Thanks for the feedback, Bobby, and everyone else.
> "Rebel1"<Reb...@optonline.net> wrote in message
> news:4f7f07eb$0$30079$607e...@cv.net...
>> Because of a recent burglary, I am going to install an alarm system in
>> my single-family ranch home (no basement)that I reside in alone. The
>> street is a quiet, family-oriented one (no loud cars, boom boxes,
>> tough-looking guys of any age).
>>
>> my single-family ranch home (no basement)that I reside in alone. The
>> street is a quiet, family-oriented one (no loud cars, boom boxes,
>> tough-looking guys of any age).
>>
>> The considerations (aimed at burglar detection):
>> 1. A silent alarm so the cops might catch them in the act, vs. one that
>> lights lights and beeps horns to scare them away (so they're free to
>> strike elsewhere).
>
> Don't succumb to mission creep. (-: Your job is to protect your home.
>> 1. A silent alarm so the cops might catch them in the act, vs. one that
>> lights lights and beeps horns to scare them away (so they're free to
>> strike elsewhere).
>
> Sadly, part of good protection means that you make yourself less of a
> potential target and that makes your neighbors more of one.
>
>> 2. A silent alarm that signals me if I'm home, so I could defend myself
>> with a gun. If I'm away, the alarm could notify a next-door neighbor, a
>> monitoring service, or the police. Police allow three false alarms a
>> year before charging. (I believe there are systems that will call my
>> cell phone, but it's always off and in my car, as it is used only for
>> calls that I originate.)
>
> You want them out ASAP and you want your neighbors (if you have them)
>> 2. A silent alarm that signals me if I'm home, so I could defend myself
>> with a gun. If I'm away, the alarm could notify a next-door neighbor, a
>> monitoring service, or the police. Police allow three false alarms a
>> year before charging. (I believe there are systems that will call my
>> cell phone, but it's always off and in my car, as it is used only for
>> calls that I originate.)
>
> alerted to a problem in your house ASAP, too. Silent alarm + you wandering
> around armed when the cops arrive could = dead you.
>
>> 3. Beefed up barriers to entry, like locking bars for sliding doors, and
>> high quality door locks. Problem is, if place looks too fortified,
>> rather than being deterred burglars might see this as a sign that there
>> is really valuable stuff inside and make a more determined (and
>> damaging) effort to enter.
>
> That's part of the problem of balance. How much security is enough? How
>> 3. Beefed up barriers to entry, like locking bars for sliding doors, and
>> high quality door locks. Problem is, if place looks too fortified,
>> rather than being deterred burglars might see this as a sign that there
>> is really valuable stuff inside and make a more determined (and
>> damaging) effort to enter.
>
> much is too much?
>
>> 4. How easy is it to defeat? The incoming AC power cable is enclosed in
>> heavy duty metal conduit. But it would be easy to cut the flimsy pin
>> that locks the cover over the meter and simply remove the meter. The
>> cable TV and phone lines are not enclosed and are easy to cut and
>> thereby defeat ordinary landlines or phone service via the cable
>> company. This forces a battery-backup wireless system.
>
> Which is why I am a proponent of the extremely loud inside and outside
>> 4. How easy is it to defeat? The incoming AC power cable is enclosed in
>> heavy duty metal conduit. But it would be easy to cut the flimsy pin
>> that locks the cover over the meter and simply remove the meter. The
>> cable TV and phone lines are not enclosed and are easy to cut and
>> thereby defeat ordinary landlines or phone service via the cable
>> company. This forces a battery-backup wireless system.
>
> alarms. You can have alarm sensors setups that detect the cutting of the
> phone line and start the sirens and bells on battery backup. That causes
> your neighbors to call the police - what I call the "human wireless
> network." No monthly fee.
>
>> 5. Camera: Do they really do much good in deterring via their visible e
>> presence or in identifying a suspect that the cops catch?
>
> Knock on wood but . . . My neighbors all knew I had CCTV. It's pretty
>
> obvious. A whole street of cars got broken into just outside the range of
> my front door cam. I figure it was our local crackhead who knew to stay
> clear of the camera. Caught one burglar on CCTV, but not the way you'd
> think. Just walked in the house and turned on the lights and the CCTV
> monitor that's on the same switch. Saw someone walking along the side of
> the house (11PM!), grabbed my 2 million candlepower spot and shined it on
> his face, not realizing it had burned out his night vision. The cops were
> called while I questioned the guy. They came *amazingly* fast.
>
> As for the chance of actually making an ID off the typical consumer grade
> CCTV stuff from late at night? Very small. Put on a hoodie and even the
> prosumer stuff won't be able to tell Zimmerman from Martin a distances
> greater than 20 feet. Video from nite IR cams (except for the stuff NatGeo
> uses) and recording equipment looks green and white or black and white and
> is usually pretty awful recorded at anything less than HQ. Many consumer
> CCTV recorders don't even offer an HQ option since it eats so much disk
> space.
>
>> Other measures (mainly home security):
>>
>> 1. Lights on timers.
>
> Always. I use X-10. Much more sophisticated.
>> Other measures (mainly home security):
>>
>> 1. Lights on timers.
>
>
>> 2. Radio or TV on all the time.
>
> I have one hooked up to a motion sensor through X-10 that starts and stops
>> 2. Radio or TV on all the time.
>
> radio play in a back room. I also have one of their REX electronic dogs
> that barks (very convincingly!) when motion is detected on the porch.
>
>> 3. Shades for the garage window so nobody can see if a car is present.
>> In my neighborhood, a car is a necessity as it's a mile to a major
>> highway. So if the garage is empty, it's a excellent indication that the
>> house is empty also.
>
> Definitely. I put translucent film on the basement windows as well.
>> 3. Shades for the garage window so nobody can see if a car is present.
>> In my neighborhood, a car is a necessity as it's a mile to a major
>> highway. So if the garage is empty, it's a excellent indication that the
>> house is empty also.
>
>
>> 4. Locking bars on sliding doors.
>
> Yes.
>> 4. Locking bars on sliding doors.
>
>
>> 5. Double-key deadbolts on doors with glass panes, so burglars can't
>> break a window and simply reach in and unlock a single-key deadbolt.
>
> Yes.
>> 5. Double-key deadbolts on doors with glass panes, so burglars can't
>> break a window and simply reach in and unlock a single-key deadbolt.
>
>
>> 6. Fake decals warning that a system is installed even if not true.
>
> Couldn't hurt. Steal an ADT sign from someone elses' home. ()-"
>> 6. Fake decals warning that a system is installed even if not true.
>
>
>> After writing the above, I came across a book on amazon.com called
>> Essential Home Security: A Layman's Guide. Clicking on the Table of
>> Contents link,
>>
>>
> http://www.amazon.com/Essential-Home-Security-Laymans-Guide/dp/1453732039/ref=sr_1_14?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1333721382&sr=1-14#reader_1453732039
>>
>> it appears to address my concerns and many, many factors that I have not
>> considered. I can't tell, however, if he addresses defeating the systems
>> (consideration 4 above).
>>
>> One of the reviewers was annoyed because the book was self-published (so
>> what?) and because there were no specific product recommendations. The
>> other reviews gave it high marks for at least pointing out
>> vulnerabilities you may have.
>
> You may also want to talk to your local police. Many departments will give
>> After writing the above, I came across a book on amazon.com called
>> Essential Home Security: A Layman's Guide. Clicking on the Table of
>> Contents link,
>>
>>
> http://www.amazon.com/Essential-Home-Security-Laymans-Guide/dp/1453732039/ref=sr_1_14?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1333721382&sr=1-14#reader_1453732039
>>
>> it appears to address my concerns and many, many factors that I have not
>> considered. I can't tell, however, if he addresses defeating the systems
>> (consideration 4 above).
>>
>> One of the reviewers was annoyed because the book was self-published (so
>> what?) and because there were no specific product recommendations. The
>> other reviews gave it high marks for at least pointing out
>> vulnerabilities you may have.
>
> you a safety walkaound. They can give you lots of important local info,
> too.
>
> --
> Bobby G.
Thanks for the feedback, Bobby, and everyone else.
Robert Macy
Apr 7, 2012, 12:02:38 PM4/7/12
to
On Apr 7, 7:48 am, cl...@snyder.on.ca wrote:
> On Sat, 7 Apr 2012 05:57:37 -0400, "Robert Green"
>
>
>
>
>
> <robert_green1...@yah00.com> wrote:
> On Sat, 7 Apr 2012 05:57:37 -0400, "Robert Green"
>
>
>
>
>
> >"Tony Hwang" <drago...@shaw.ca> wrote in message
any items yet]; it's a misdemeanor.
I wonder if he could sue?
HeyBub
Apr 7, 2012, 12:07:00 PM4/7/12
to
cl...@snyder.on.ca wrote:
>>
>> Everybody in my neighborhood has alarms and everybody ignores it
>> when a neighbor's alarm goes off as 99% are false alarms. If your
>> alarm goes directly to the police you risk a fine for a 2nd false
>> alarm and a third will cost you more. Neighbor was complaining that
>> it cost her $500 last year.
>>
>> Everybody in my neighborhood has alarms and everybody ignores it
>> when a neighbor's alarm goes off as 99% are false alarms. If your
>> alarm goes directly to the police you risk a fine for a 2nd false
>> alarm and a third will cost you more. Neighbor was complaining that
>> it cost her $500 last year.
> If you have false alarms something is wrong with your system, or
> your residents - and a $500 charge for the false alarms would be much
> better spent fixing the system.
Heh! We used to get an occassional false alarm from a motion detector. It
> your residents - and a $500 charge for the false alarms would be much
> better spent fixing the system.
was located high on the wall in a corner of the room.
Finally deduced it was the cat getting to the top of a bookcase directly
below the alarm.
We masked off the bottom of the detector where it still scanned the room but
ignored whatever might be on top of the bookcase.
Rebel1
Apr 7, 2012, 12:09:56 PM4/7/12
to
On 4/6/2012 1:28 PM, Robert Macy wrote:
>
> I was told by police of 7th largest city in US that in their
> experience NEVER had power/telephone lines cut by a burglar, even when
> all is prominently above ground and accessible.
>
> ALARMS:
> local alarm
> external: loud/obnoxious for 5+ minutes, won't anger neighbors too
> much, lights flashing for 10+ minutes. There may be ordinances
> concerning noise makers. I mounted my siren INSIDE our home pointing
> out through vent opening to meet local ordinance, yet still make noise
> outside.
> internal: loud/obnoxious 120+dB WITH lights flashing for 20 minutes
>
> silent/monitored alarm
> 1-2 minutes BEFORE loud local alarms, silent alarm - maybe local
> response actually catch someone exiting
>
> cameras: for record/review, possible identification, system connect to
> internet to notify you via cell phone, or to service. It is a nice
> feature to be able to check for prowlers while you're inside. Once, I
> put in military grade proximity alarms, even included radar that
> looked through walls to 10 foot regions outside. You could NOT believe
> the number of people that wandered around outside at night!
>
> outside indicators:
> no decal, just a visible alarm bell - not so discretely tucked away.
>
> As far as 'fortressing' your home...
> For valuables, after having a safety deposit box mysteriously lose
> some contents [had written list of complete contents at home for
> comparison] decided to NEVER let valuables out of my hands again.
> not appear to be fortified.
> Pass the word around that your home has NOTHING of value inside it,
> has cameras security etc just to prevent potential vandalism from any
> angry intruder.
Super suggestions.
These guys missed some obvious things, like sterling silverware right in
one of the kitchen drawers. (Maybe they didn't recognize it as
sterling.) The hallway closet had a silverware box that they didn't
bother to check for silver. The gold they took was at one end of a 9'
closet. If they bothered pushing shirts away at the other end, they
would have seen a steel strongbox containing about $3700 of silver coins.
Hard to figure these guys out. The place was messy, but the only damage
was the casement operator. If you look at the video I took
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sWyMY3L8DvQ), at time 3:46 you'll see a
polished mahogany box on the dresser. They didn't damage the box, or
even outer blue slip case it was in. They just took the coin.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/90278919@N00/7053906913/in/photostream
At time 4:14, you'll see another similar mahogany box that was
undamaged, as was its slipcase. Hardly the deliberate actions of junkies
looking for a quick exit.
They didn't take mirrors or pictures off the walls to check for shallow
wall safes (less than 3.5" deep).
> On Apr 6, 8:12 am, Rebel1<Reb...@optonline.net> wrote:
>> Because of a recent burglary, I am going to install an alarm system in
>> my single-family ranch home (no basement)that I reside in alone. The
>> street is a quiet, family-oriented one (no loud cars, boom boxes,
>> tough-looking guys of any age).
>>
>> Because of a recent burglary, I am going to install an alarm system in
>> my single-family ranch home (no basement)that I reside in alone. The
>> street is a quiet, family-oriented one (no loud cars, boom boxes,
>> tough-looking guys of any age).
>>
>> The considerations (aimed at burglar detection):
>> 1. A silent alarm so the cops might catch them in the act, vs. one that
>> lights lights and beeps horns to scare them away (so they're free to
>> strike elsewhere).
>>
>> 1. A silent alarm so the cops might catch them in the act, vs. one that
>> lights lights and beeps horns to scare them away (so they're free to
>> strike elsewhere).
>>
>> 2. A silent alarm that signals me if I'm home, so I could defend myself
>> with a gun. If I'm away, the alarm could notify a next-door neighbor, a
>> monitoring service, or the police. Police allow three false alarms a
>> year before charging. (I believe there are systems that will call my
>> cell phone, but it's always off and in my car, as it is used only for
>> calls that I originate.)
>>
>> with a gun. If I'm away, the alarm could notify a next-door neighbor, a
>> monitoring service, or the police. Police allow three false alarms a
>> year before charging. (I believe there are systems that will call my
>> cell phone, but it's always off and in my car, as it is used only for
>> calls that I originate.)
>>
>> 3. Beefed up barriers to entry, like locking bars for sliding doors, and
>> high quality door locks. Problem is, if place looks too fortified,
>> rather than being deterred burglars might see this as a sign that there
>> is really valuable stuff inside and make a more determined (and
>> damaging) effort to enter.
>>
>> high quality door locks. Problem is, if place looks too fortified,
>> rather than being deterred burglars might see this as a sign that there
>> is really valuable stuff inside and make a more determined (and
>> damaging) effort to enter.
>>
>> 4. How easy is it to defeat? The incoming AC power cable is enclosed in
>> heavy duty metal conduit. But it would be easy to cut the flimsy pin
>> that locks the cover over the meter and simply remove the meter. The
>> cable TV and phone lines are not enclosed and are easy to cut and
>> thereby defeat ordinary landlines or phone service via the cable
>> company. This forces a battery-backup wireless system.
>>
>> heavy duty metal conduit. But it would be easy to cut the flimsy pin
>> that locks the cover over the meter and simply remove the meter. The
>> cable TV and phone lines are not enclosed and are easy to cut and
>> thereby defeat ordinary landlines or phone service via the cable
>> company. This forces a battery-backup wireless system.
>>
>> 5. Camera: Do they really do much good in deterring via their visible
>> presence or in identifying a suspect that the cops catch?
>>
>>
>> Other measures (mainly home security):
>>
>> 1. Lights on timers.
>>
>> 1. Lights on timers.
>> 2. Radio or TV on all the time.
>> 3. Shades for the garage window so nobody can see if a car is present.
>> In my neighborhood, a car is a necessity as it's a mile to a major
>> highway. So if the garage is empty, it's a excellent indication that the
>> house is empty also.
>> In my neighborhood, a car is a necessity as it's a mile to a major
>> highway. So if the garage is empty, it's a excellent indication that the
>> house is empty also.
>> 4. Locking bars on sliding doors.
>> 5. Double-key deadbolts on doors with glass panes, so burglars can't
>> break a window and simply reach in and unlock a single-key deadbolt.
>> break a window and simply reach in and unlock a single-key deadbolt.
>> 6. Fake decals warning that a system is installed even if not true.
>>
>>
>> After writing the above, I came across a book on amazon.com called
>> Essential Home Security: A Layman's Guide. Clicking on the Table of
>> Contents link,
>>
>> http://www.amazon.com/Essential-Home-Security-Laymans-Guide/dp/145373...
>> Essential Home Security: A Layman's Guide. Clicking on the Table of
>> Contents link,
>>
>>
>> it appears to address my concerns and many, many factors that I have not
>> considered. I can't tell, however, if he addresses defeating the systems
>> (consideration 4 above).
>>
>> One of the reviewers was annoyed because the book was self-published (so
>> what?) and because there were no specific product recommendations. The
>> other reviews gave it high marks for at least pointing out
>> vulnerabilities you may have.
>>
>> it appears to address my concerns and many, many factors that I have not
>> considered. I can't tell, however, if he addresses defeating the systems
>> (consideration 4 above).
>>
>> One of the reviewers was annoyed because the book was self-published (so
>> what?) and because there were no specific product recommendations. The
>> other reviews gave it high marks for at least pointing out
>> vulnerabilities you may have.
>>
>> Thanks for your comments/feedback.
>>
>> R1
>
> My comments/opinions:
>>
>> R1
>
>
> I was told by police of 7th largest city in US that in their
> experience NEVER had power/telephone lines cut by a burglar, even when
> all is prominently above ground and accessible.
>
> ALARMS:
> local alarm
> external: loud/obnoxious for 5+ minutes, won't anger neighbors too
> much, lights flashing for 10+ minutes. There may be ordinances
> concerning noise makers. I mounted my siren INSIDE our home pointing
> out through vent opening to meet local ordinance, yet still make noise
> outside.
> internal: loud/obnoxious 120+dB WITH lights flashing for 20 minutes
>
> silent/monitored alarm
> 1-2 minutes BEFORE loud local alarms, silent alarm - maybe local
> response actually catch someone exiting
>
> cameras: for record/review, possible identification, system connect to
> internet to notify you via cell phone, or to service. It is a nice
> feature to be able to check for prowlers while you're inside. Once, I
> put in military grade proximity alarms, even included radar that
> looked through walls to 10 foot regions outside. You could NOT believe
> the number of people that wandered around outside at night!
>
> outside indicators:
> no decal, just a visible alarm bell - not so discretely tucked away.
>
> As far as 'fortressing' your home...
> For valuables, after having a safety deposit box mysteriously lose
> some contents [had written list of complete contents at home for
> comparison] decided to NEVER let valuables out of my hands again.
> Thus, used the dead spaces under our cabinetry in bathroom and kitchen
> and built fake back walls into several closets. I converted the
> kickstep covers for the cabinetry to become removable. Each was held
> in place with those "push to open" latches. Contents under cabinets
> were those heavy coin collections etc, heavy, thin flat items, more
> than 200 lb total. The spaces made by the fake back walls in the
> closets were to enclose larger items, like sterlingware, special
> jewelry, etc. and wife's collection of furs. NOBODY knew about the
> false areas, except us. Then added a more conventional, and
> and built fake back walls into several closets. I converted the
> kickstep covers for the cabinetry to become removable. Each was held
> in place with those "push to open" latches. Contents under cabinets
> were those heavy coin collections etc, heavy, thin flat items, more
> than 200 lb total. The spaces made by the fake back walls in the
> closets were to enclose larger items, like sterlingware, special
> jewelry, etc. and wife's collection of furs. NOBODY knew about the
> prominent, bolt down safe to occupy anyone who wanted to hang around
> and get the lollipop out of it. Thus, the home was secure, but did
> not appear to be fortified.
> Pass the word around that your home has NOTHING of value inside it,
> has cameras security etc just to prevent potential vandalism from any
> angry intruder.
Super suggestions.
These guys missed some obvious things, like sterling silverware right in
one of the kitchen drawers. (Maybe they didn't recognize it as
sterling.) The hallway closet had a silverware box that they didn't
bother to check for silver. The gold they took was at one end of a 9'
closet. If they bothered pushing shirts away at the other end, they
would have seen a steel strongbox containing about $3700 of silver coins.
Hard to figure these guys out. The place was messy, but the only damage
was the casement operator. If you look at the video I took
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sWyMY3L8DvQ), at time 3:46 you'll see a
polished mahogany box on the dresser. They didn't damage the box, or
even outer blue slip case it was in. They just took the coin.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/90278919@N00/7053906913/in/photostream
At time 4:14, you'll see another similar mahogany box that was
undamaged, as was its slipcase. Hardly the deliberate actions of junkies
looking for a quick exit.
They didn't take mirrors or pictures off the walls to check for shallow
wall safes (less than 3.5" deep).
Jim Yanik
Apr 7, 2012, 1:16:36 PM4/7/12
to
Peter <pk...@netzero.com> wrote in news:jlph32$8ih$1...@news.albasani.net:
burglars often RETURN to places they burgled once,because now the owner has
gotten NEW stuff to replace his stolen items.
--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
localnet
dot com
gotten NEW stuff to replace his stolen items.
--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
localnet
dot com
Robert Green
Apr 7, 2012, 1:02:44 PM4/7/12
to
<cl...@snyder.on.ca> wrote in message
news:vjk0o711r984bocot...@4ax.com...
I've seen dogs that you can't leave home alone for 20 minutes!
> They left for a week's holiday and the first or second night they were
> gone a guy broke in. The dog cornered him in the livingroom and put
> the "fear of the lord" in him. The dog could eat without loosing sight
> of him - and could also hang his ass out the door to do his business,
> but the poor bugger who broke in couldn't move 6 feet without risking
> having some important parts dissapear. When they returned the guy was
> very dehydrated, very tired,very stinky, and VERY pissed off!!
Burglars hate dogs. That's why I like my Robodogs so much. When I have
time, I am going to build a much better one out of a couple of broken MP3
players I have so I can rotate through a number of different styles of dog
barks. What I really need is a simulator that sounds like a dog scratching
at the front door, eager to get at whoever's knocking. (-:
--
Bobby G.
news:vjk0o711r984bocot...@4ax.com...
> On Sat, 7 Apr 2012 05:57:37 -0400, "Robert Green"
> <robert_g...@yah00.com> wrote:
>
> >"Tony Hwang" <drag...@shaw.ca> wrote in message
> >news:W3Gfr.34478$yD7....@newsfe15.iad...
> >>
> >>
> >> Rebel1 wrote:
> >> > Because of a recent burglary, I am going to install an alarm system
in
> >> > my single-family ranch home (no basement)that I reside in alone. The
> >> > street is a quiet, family-oriented one (no loud cars, boom boxes,
> >> > tough-looking guys of any age).
> >>
> >> Hi,
> >> How about a good trained guard dog. No matter how good security shield
> >> you deploy, bad guys are always one step ahead of you. I have a live-in
> >> domestic helper and a professionally trained guard dog. Alarm system
> >> is very seldom armed.
> >
> >They're useful to people who are mostly home, but for the OP, who says
he's
> >gone for weeks at a time, I don't think it will help much. He'll either
> >have to board the dog or depend on neighbors to feed and care for him.
That
> >opens up several cans of worms at once.
> A former customer used to have rottweilers. The dog had a radio
> collar that openned the "doggy door" and the on-demand feeder, so they
> could leave the dog at home alone for a week or too with no problem.
A dog that you can leave home for a week with no problem is a miracle dog.
> <robert_g...@yah00.com> wrote:
>
> >"Tony Hwang" <drag...@shaw.ca> wrote in message
> >news:W3Gfr.34478$yD7....@newsfe15.iad...
> >>
> >>
> >> Rebel1 wrote:
> >> > Because of a recent burglary, I am going to install an alarm system
in
> >> > my single-family ranch home (no basement)that I reside in alone. The
> >> > street is a quiet, family-oriented one (no loud cars, boom boxes,
> >> > tough-looking guys of any age).
> >>
> >> Hi,
> >> How about a good trained guard dog. No matter how good security shield
> >> you deploy, bad guys are always one step ahead of you. I have a live-in
> >> domestic helper and a professionally trained guard dog. Alarm system
> >> is very seldom armed.
> >
> >They're useful to people who are mostly home, but for the OP, who says
he's
> >gone for weeks at a time, I don't think it will help much. He'll either
> >have to board the dog or depend on neighbors to feed and care for him.
That
> >opens up several cans of worms at once.
> A former customer used to have rottweilers. The dog had a radio
> collar that openned the "doggy door" and the on-demand feeder, so they
> could leave the dog at home alone for a week or too with no problem.
I've seen dogs that you can't leave home alone for 20 minutes!
> They left for a week's holiday and the first or second night they were
> gone a guy broke in. The dog cornered him in the livingroom and put
> the "fear of the lord" in him. The dog could eat without loosing sight
> of him - and could also hang his ass out the door to do his business,
> but the poor bugger who broke in couldn't move 6 feet without risking
> having some important parts dissapear. When they returned the guy was
> very dehydrated, very tired,very stinky, and VERY pissed off!!
time, I am going to build a much better one out of a couple of broken MP3
players I have so I can rotate through a number of different styles of dog
barks. What I really need is a simulator that sounds like a dog scratching
at the front door, eager to get at whoever's knocking. (-:
--
Bobby G.
Robert Green
Apr 7, 2012, 1:07:30 PM4/7/12
to
"bob haller" <hal...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:0ff45f1e-441b-4b20...@l4g2000vbt.googlegroups.com...
news:0ff45f1e-441b-4b20...@l4g2000vbt.googlegroups.com...
> lets all remember if someone wants in bad enough they will find a way:
> (
>
> its best to keep a low profile, valuables not in plain site, dont tell
> anyone i have a diamond in the cookie jar, stuff like this is near
> free and mostly effective.
I've known a lot of people that got into trouble from bragging to the wrong
> (
>
> its best to keep a low profile, valuables not in plain site, dont tell
> anyone i have a diamond in the cookie jar, stuff like this is near
> free and mostly effective.
people. Tell your neighbor you've got a stash of junk silver and soon the
whole neighborhood will know. In Cold Blood was about cons who murdered a
family because they just *thought* they had a safe with money.
--
Bobby G.
Robert Green
Apr 7, 2012, 1:15:16 PM4/7/12
to
"Home Guy" <Ho...@Guy.com> wrote in message news:4F805341...@Guy.com...
<stuff snipped>
> So I question the idea that someone, anyone, will want to break into any
> house "bad enough". The only people that would ever want to break into
> your house "bad enough" are the police and firemen.
Tell that to the woman a few doors down whose drunken husband smashed his
way into the house to express his displeasure at the protective order she
had filed against him. I guess Canadians don't have domestic violence cases.
The people who shot my friend's dog were determined to get into THAT house
because it had been occupied by drug dealers that kept cash and drugs on
hand in large quantities.
We just convicted this rapist who forced his way into the homes of women he
followed home because he found them attractive.
http://www.myfoxdc.com/dpp/news/maryland/maryland-home-invasions-suspect-kevin-ray-ordered-held-without-bond-011712
By PAUL WAGNER/myfoxdc
ROCKVILLE, Md. - A convicted sex offender accused of three violent home
invasions in Montgomery and Prince George's County has been ordered held
without bond.
Prosecutors say Kevin Ray confessed to forcing his way into homes at
gunpoint and robbing, raping and sexually assaulting several victims over a
four-day period.
After he was arrested last weekend in North Carolina, prosecutors say Ray
was interviewed by detectives and admitted sexually assaulting a housekeeper
in Bethesda at knifepoint and tying up the homeowner and her 14-year-old
son.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm on Bob H's side with this. There is definitely a class of people that
for whatever reason, pick a particular house with the intent of breaching
it. More sex than stealing, but there.
--
Bobby G.
<stuff snipped>
> So I question the idea that someone, anyone, will want to break into any
> house "bad enough". The only people that would ever want to break into
> your house "bad enough" are the police and firemen.
way into the house to express his displeasure at the protective order she
had filed against him. I guess Canadians don't have domestic violence cases.
The people who shot my friend's dog were determined to get into THAT house
because it had been occupied by drug dealers that kept cash and drugs on
hand in large quantities.
We just convicted this rapist who forced his way into the homes of women he
followed home because he found them attractive.
http://www.myfoxdc.com/dpp/news/maryland/maryland-home-invasions-suspect-kevin-ray-ordered-held-without-bond-011712
By PAUL WAGNER/myfoxdc
ROCKVILLE, Md. - A convicted sex offender accused of three violent home
invasions in Montgomery and Prince George's County has been ordered held
without bond.
Prosecutors say Kevin Ray confessed to forcing his way into homes at
gunpoint and robbing, raping and sexually assaulting several victims over a
four-day period.
After he was arrested last weekend in North Carolina, prosecutors say Ray
was interviewed by detectives and admitted sexually assaulting a housekeeper
in Bethesda at knifepoint and tying up the homeowner and her 14-year-old
son.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm on Bob H's side with this. There is definitely a class of people that
for whatever reason, pick a particular house with the intent of breaching
it. More sex than stealing, but there.
--
Bobby G.
Rebel1
Apr 7, 2012, 1:24:07 PM4/7/12
to
> I had security doors installed. They really don't look that bad, or they
> didn't on my old house. Some say they are a hazard because they can be
> difficult to escape in case of a fire. It's something to consider.
>
> http://www.fourseasonssunrooms.com/Doors/images/SDOption/defender_security_door.jpg
>
>
> That way the burglars can't walk right out the front door with your
> stuff. They usually go with the path of least resistance. My neighbor
> got a little upset when I put mine in but too bad. They don't cost that
> much and he can buy his own if he doesn't like it.
>
> I lived in a real high crime area (Abq NM) and after that we never got
> burgled again.
What's to keep a burglar from breaking one of the side windows, which
isn't covered by the security door, and simply reach in to undo the
locks from inside? Do you have a double-cylinder deadbolt on the main door?
Jim Yanik
Apr 7, 2012, 1:46:30 PM4/7/12
to
Rebel1 <Reb...@optonline.net> wrote in
news:4f807835$0$24492$607e...@cv.net:
make a side window that is not breakable. maybe 1/2" plexiglas or Lexan.
it's kinda dumb to have a window right next to your door anyways.
news:4f807835$0$24492$607e...@cv.net:
it's kinda dumb to have a window right next to your door anyways.
Robert Green
Apr 7, 2012, 1:28:46 PM4/7/12
to
"Jim Yanik" <jya...@abuse.gov> wrote in message
<stuff snipped>
> burglars often RETURN to places they burgled once,because now the owner
has
> gotten NEW stuff to replace his stolen items.
They are just like rats. They got the cheese and didn't get caught and now
they've gotten the lay of the land, making them even more comfortable.
That's why it's important to try to find out from police if the burglary was
part of a trend.
--
Bobby G.
<stuff snipped>
> burglars often RETURN to places they burgled once,because now the owner
has
> gotten NEW stuff to replace his stolen items.
they've gotten the lay of the land, making them even more comfortable.
That's why it's important to try to find out from police if the burglary was
part of a trend.
--
Bobby G.
Home Guy
Apr 7, 2012, 2:22:03 PM4/7/12
to
Robert Green wrote:
> > The only people that would ever want to break into
> > your house "bad enough" are the police and firemen.
> Tell that to the woman a few doors down whose drunken husband
> smashed his way into the house ...
> > The only people that would ever want to break into
> > your house "bad enough" are the police and firemen.
> Tell that to the woman a few doors down whose drunken husband
> I'm on Bob H's side with this. There is definitely a class of
> people that for whatever reason, pick a particular house with
> the intent of breaching it.
If you want to talk about person A going after person B with the intent
to confront, harm, kill, etc, that is a completely different situation
vs what can a home owner do to secure, deter and/or monitor his property
/ home from a break-in / theft point of view.
Home Guy
Apr 7, 2012, 2:29:23 PM4/7/12
to
Jim Yanik wrote:
> burglars often RETURN to places they burgled once,because now the
> owner has gotten NEW stuff to replace his stolen items.
I'd like to see that theory validated by others in some real
> burglars often RETURN to places they burgled once,because now the
> owner has gotten NEW stuff to replace his stolen items.
publications or news stories / interviews.
What you find that gets stolen is cash, prescription meds, jewlery,
coins and guns. Electronic items are largely ignored (unless they're
small enough to stuff into a knap-sack or pillow case).
Every home will have that same assortment of stuff - to one extent or
another, so there's no real point to go back to the same house you've
hit before because you can be assured of getting it somewhere else
when-ever you want.
Now, whether or not a *different* thief will hit the same home that was
robbed in the past, that's another issue, and if the two thiefs know
each other and which homes they've each robbed.
cl...@snyder.on.ca
Apr 7, 2012, 6:14:33 PM4/7/12
to
relatively built up area. Could he sue? possibly. Could he win?
Unlikely - he had a rap sheet.
k...@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz
Apr 7, 2012, 8:02:11 PM4/7/12
to
yours. In any case, the lock is there for the neighbor kids and the insurance
company.
gonjah
Apr 7, 2012, 8:19:43 PM4/7/12
to
security doors. His response was "They'll just go to the next house."
Ron
Apr 8, 2012, 12:08:56 AM4/8/12
to
>
> At time 4:14, you'll see another similar mahogany box that was
> undamaged, as was its slipcase. Hardly the deliberate actions of junkies
> looking for a quick exit.
>
> They didn't take mirrors or pictures off the walls to check for shallow
> wall safes (less than 3.5" deep).
I think you are posting too much personal info in a public
> At time 4:14, you'll see another similar mahogany box that was
> undamaged, as was its slipcase. Hardly the deliberate actions of junkies
> looking for a quick exit.
>
> They didn't take mirrors or pictures off the walls to check for shallow
> wall safes (less than 3.5" deep).
forum....just sayin'
Ron
Apr 8, 2012, 12:13:20 AM4/8/12
to
On Apr 7, 1:16 pm, Jim Yanik <jya...@abuse.gov> wrote:
>
> burglars often RETURN to places they burgled once,because now the owner has
> gotten NEW stuff to replace his stolen items.
Not what the police told when my house was broken into once.
>
> burglars often RETURN to places they burgled once,because now the owner has
> gotten NEW stuff to replace his stolen items.
They told me that the burglars move on to the next target.
gonjah
Apr 8, 2012, 12:22:33 AM4/8/12
to
current property. :)
Ron
Apr 8, 2012, 12:24:57 AM4/8/12
to
a window open and left palm prints. Needless to say, they already had
his prints.
cl...@snyder.on.ca
Apr 8, 2012, 1:09:29 AM4/8/12
to
On Sat, 7 Apr 2012 21:13:20 -0700 (PDT), Ron <BigEL...@msn.com>
wrote:
There have been documented cases of "double dipping" by theives - and
even involvement of salespeople at the stereo/tv reseller tipping off
their buddies.
wrote:
even involvement of salespeople at the stereo/tv reseller tipping off
their buddies.
Ron
Apr 8, 2012, 1:29:38 AM4/8/12
to
George
Apr 8, 2012, 7:33:21 AM4/8/12
to
On 4/8/2012 12:13 AM, Ron wrote:
> On Apr 7, 1:16 pm, Jim Yanik<jya...@abuse.gov> wrote:
>>
>> burglars often RETURN to places they burgled once,because now the owner has
>> gotten NEW stuff to replace his stolen items.
>
> Not what the police told when my house was broken into once.
Sounds like they weren't paying attention during that 5 hour course they
> On Apr 7, 1:16 pm, Jim Yanik<jya...@abuse.gov> wrote:
>>
>> burglars often RETURN to places they burgled once,because now the owner has
>> gotten NEW stuff to replace his stolen items.
>
> Not what the police told when my house was broken into once.
need to complete to be a cop..
>
> They told me that the burglars move on to the next target.
succeeded one time so why not try the easy way again.
George
Apr 8, 2012, 7:34:10 AM4/8/12
to
HeyBub
Apr 8, 2012, 8:04:49 AM4/8/12
to
Stormin Mormon wrote:
> My friend,
> I think you're right. Of course, burglars are lazy. So, if your
> house is protected, they will go to a different house.
> You can expect HeBe-ub to give you grief, now. Read the "who is it"
> thread to understand why.
>
Nope. YOU are the receipent of my scorn and derision. Whether my actions
give you grief, or whether you revel in insults, is a result of your own
psychological pathology.
I suspect, although I can't tell, that objections to your claim that some of
us here are nazis, invokes feelings of righteous indignation according to
your warped and degenerate mind.
Normal people, even those somewhat less than normal, would have apologized
for the insult and moved on. The fact that you haven't done so is but
further evidence of your latent, and disgusting, preferences.
> My friend,
> I think you're right. Of course, burglars are lazy. So, if your
> house is protected, they will go to a different house.
> You can expect HeBe-ub to give you grief, now. Read the "who is it"
> thread to understand why.
>
Nope. YOU are the receipent of my scorn and derision. Whether my actions
give you grief, or whether you revel in insults, is a result of your own
psychological pathology.
I suspect, although I can't tell, that objections to your claim that some of
us here are nazis, invokes feelings of righteous indignation according to
your warped and degenerate mind.
Normal people, even those somewhat less than normal, would have apologized
for the insult and moved on. The fact that you haven't done so is but
further evidence of your latent, and disgusting, preferences.
G. Morgan
Apr 8, 2012, 8:12:02 AM4/8/12
to
Home Guy wrote:
>"G. Morgan" wrote:
>
>> You'll get better answers in alt.security.alarms
>>
>> its filled with professional installers.
>
>If it's anything like alt.hvac then it's filled with professional
>assholes who piss all over "hoe-moaners".
It was for a long time, but has returned to a generally civil
group the past 2 years.
--
I'd like to get four people who do cart wheels very good, and
make a cart. -Mitch Hedberg
>"G. Morgan" wrote:
>
>> You'll get better answers in alt.security.alarms
>>
>> its filled with professional installers.
>
>If it's anything like alt.hvac then it's filled with professional
>assholes who piss all over "hoe-moaners".
It was for a long time, but has returned to a generally civil
group the past 2 years.
--
I'd like to get four people who do cart wheels very good, and
make a cart. -Mitch Hedberg
cl...@snyder.on.ca
Apr 8, 2012, 8:16:26 AM4/8/12
to
On Sun, 08 Apr 2012 07:34:10 -0400, George <geo...@nospam.invalid>
wrote:
and guaranteed new stuff too!!
wrote:
Home Guy
Apr 8, 2012, 8:22:35 AM4/8/12
to
> > Not what the police told when my house was broken into once.
> > They told me that the burglars move on to the next target.
>
> There have been documented cases of "double dipping" by theives
I'd have to believe that would only happen to the 1% crowd (the upper 1%
> > They told me that the burglars move on to the next target.
>
> There have been documented cases of "double dipping" by theives
of income). Only they would have enough "stuff" in their house that is
valuable enough for someone to come back to *RISK* a second helping.
Also note that maybe 2 to 5 years ago, thieves would have taken
flat-screen TV's. Not any more (because they're so cheap). A lot of
what used to be hi-end home theater stuff is probably not being stolen
any more.
> even involvement of salespeople at the stereo/tv reseller tipping
> off their buddies.
doesn't want to take something that he can't shove into his pockets or
knap-sack.
Now, with regard to high-end cars - yes. It has happened lots of times
where someone working at a high-end dealership tips off a crew as to
where certain people live with their merc or benz or other high-end car,
and they can also supply the theives with duplicate keys that they make
when the car is in for servicing.
If I lived in the states, I'd have the address on file with any retailer
(car dealer, credit card, bank, etc) point to a PO box (not my real
house address). Same with my driver's license.
Home Guy
Apr 8, 2012, 8:26:53 AM4/8/12
to
George wrote:
> Human nature is to go for the lowest hanging fruit. They already
> succeeded one time so why not try the easy way again.
The average house doesn't have enough small, high-value shit to come
> Human nature is to go for the lowest hanging fruit. They already
> succeeded one time so why not try the easy way again.
back and risk another break-in.
Some punk who breaks in the first time and finds your gun in the night
table and your wife's jewlery on the dresser will notice your 55" plasma
in the den - but he sure as hell isin't going to be hassled dragging
that down the street, and he knows that every third house is going to
have a similar TV so why bother coming back to the same house?
Ron
Apr 8, 2012, 10:16:31 AM4/8/12
to
k...@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz
Apr 8, 2012, 10:51:15 AM4/8/12
to
Ron
Apr 8, 2012, 10:58:50 AM4/8/12
to
On Apr 8, 10:51 am, "k...@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz"
<k...@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz> wrote:
Didn't have insurance it was a rental (yes I know you can get renters
insurance). Also, there was a security system installed after the home
was broken into. As the OP, it wouldn't surprise me if a lot of people
get security systems installed if their home gets broken into.
<k...@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz> wrote:
insurance). Also, there was a security system installed after the home
was broken into. As the OP, it wouldn't surprise me if a lot of people
get security systems installed if their home gets broken into.
k...@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz
Apr 8, 2012, 12:12:45 PM4/8/12
to
gonjah
Apr 8, 2012, 1:55:52 PM4/8/12
to
you have something worth stealing (this is relative, before someone has
a stroke!) it's a no-brainer. It's not going to prevent a break in. I
prefer to look at the opportunity cost of insurance premiums and
deductibles. ie: I get the highest deductible car insurance I can. I
dropped State Farm for Century 21 (AIG) years ago because, the
opportunity-cost of gold plated car insurance, doesn't make State Farm
practical. Of course: YMMV.
I rented for many years and I would have never filed a claim. The only
one benefiting would be the Ins co. With insurance it's never black and
white. Rather, infinite shades of gray
jaker...@farmersmutualinsurance.com
Apr 9, 2012, 5:53:18 AM4/9/12
to
On Fri, 06 Apr 2012 11:12:43 -0400, Rebel1 <Reb...@optonline.net> wrote:
>Thanks for your comments/feedback.
>
>R1
>
Just connect 240 volts to the doorknobs. They'll die on your porch, but
>Thanks for your comments/feedback.
>
>R1
>
they wont get into the house. A dead Burglar is a good Burglar.
Stormin Mormon
Apr 9, 2012, 7:59:28 AM4/9/12
to
From what I know of electrical wiring in USA, that's not possible. Unless
you have a transformer.
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.
<jaker...@farmersmutualinsurance.com> wrote in message
news:q6c5o711fknltcuev...@4ax.com...
you have a transformer.
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.
<jaker...@farmersmutualinsurance.com> wrote in message
news:q6c5o711fknltcuev...@4ax.com...
Robert Green
Apr 10, 2012, 2:57:16 PM4/10/12
to
"George" <geo...@nospam.invalid> wrote in message
news:jlrt20$m1u$1...@dont-email.me...
<stuff snipped>
> Human nature is to go for the lowest hanging fruit. They already
> succeeded one time so why not try the easy way again.
We had cars broken into multiple times. If it's a neighborhood punk, access
is the most important thing. If he thinks you're not home and he won't get
caught, he'll be back. There's always *something* to steal that he didn't
get the first time. Believing a thief won't hit twice is like thinking
lightning won't hit twice. It depends on the thief and the opportunity.
Endless (well 180,000 hits on Google for "do burglars hit the same place
twice:"
a.. Burglars hit home twice in the same day | CNHI News Service
Jan 26, 2012 ... JACKSONVILLE, Texas - Lightning might not strike twice in
the same place, but
burglars do. A Jacksonville home was broken into twice in a ...
www.cnhinews.com/node/2227 - Cached - Similar
a.. Burglars strike home twice in one week | Crimebusters | Townsville ...
Mar 30, 2012 ... A KIRWAN man is furious after his home was broken into
twice in one week. ...
Search Listings · Place an ad ... STOLEN: Barry Morgan is furious after his
home
was targeted twice in the same week by thieves | Photo: MEGAN TAYLOR ... I
live
there and very much support the call by the "CAN DO" team to ...
www.townsvillebulletin.com.au/article/2012/03/.../318771_crimebusters.html -
Similar
a.. REPEAT BURGLARY VICTIMIZATION: RESULTS OF EMPIRICAL ...
only more likely to commit a burglary in residences near to the places they
live,
but ... relatively large proportion of all victimization, but only now do
the
implications for ..... quency of two burglaries in the same dwelling is
almost twice
the ex- ...
www.popcenter.org/library/crimeprevention/volume_12/04-Kleemans.pdf -
Cached - Similar
a.. Burglars Not Afraid To Strike Homes Twice .
Lightning may not strike twice, but burglars certainly do. ... claims shows.
seems
that when burglars arc successful, they're apt to hit the same place again,"
said ...
news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1821&dat=19811001&id... - Similar
a.. House ransacked, burglarized twice
Dec 22, 2011 ... Burglarized and vandalized; that's what happened to an
older couple in ... Same
house hit twice in three days ... He's waiting to see how his aunt wants to
clean
the place up and find out what ... They do not have any suspects.
www.krqe.com/dpp/news/crime/house-ransacked-burglarized-twice - Cached -
Similar
Need I say more?
--
Bobby G.
news:jlrt20$m1u$1...@dont-email.me...
<stuff snipped>
> Human nature is to go for the lowest hanging fruit. They already
> succeeded one time so why not try the easy way again.
is the most important thing. If he thinks you're not home and he won't get
caught, he'll be back. There's always *something* to steal that he didn't
get the first time. Believing a thief won't hit twice is like thinking
lightning won't hit twice. It depends on the thief and the opportunity.
Endless (well 180,000 hits on Google for "do burglars hit the same place
twice:"
a.. Burglars hit home twice in the same day | CNHI News Service
Jan 26, 2012 ... JACKSONVILLE, Texas - Lightning might not strike twice in
the same place, but
burglars do. A Jacksonville home was broken into twice in a ...
www.cnhinews.com/node/2227 - Cached - Similar
a.. Burglars strike home twice in one week | Crimebusters | Townsville ...
Mar 30, 2012 ... A KIRWAN man is furious after his home was broken into
twice in one week. ...
Search Listings · Place an ad ... STOLEN: Barry Morgan is furious after his
home
was targeted twice in the same week by thieves | Photo: MEGAN TAYLOR ... I
live
there and very much support the call by the "CAN DO" team to ...
www.townsvillebulletin.com.au/article/2012/03/.../318771_crimebusters.html -
Similar
a.. REPEAT BURGLARY VICTIMIZATION: RESULTS OF EMPIRICAL ...
only more likely to commit a burglary in residences near to the places they
live,
but ... relatively large proportion of all victimization, but only now do
the
implications for ..... quency of two burglaries in the same dwelling is
almost twice
the ex- ...
www.popcenter.org/library/crimeprevention/volume_12/04-Kleemans.pdf -
Cached - Similar
a.. Burglars Not Afraid To Strike Homes Twice .
Lightning may not strike twice, but burglars certainly do. ... claims shows.
seems
that when burglars arc successful, they're apt to hit the same place again,"
said ...
news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1821&dat=19811001&id... - Similar
a.. House ransacked, burglarized twice
Dec 22, 2011 ... Burglarized and vandalized; that's what happened to an
older couple in ... Same
house hit twice in three days ... He's waiting to see how his aunt wants to
clean
the place up and find out what ... They do not have any suspects.
www.krqe.com/dpp/news/crime/house-ransacked-burglarized-twice - Cached -
Similar
Need I say more?
--
Bobby G.
Robert Green
Apr 10, 2012, 3:19:13 PM4/10/12
to
> <jaker...@farmersmutualinsurance.com> wrote in message
> news:q6c5o711fknltcuev...@4ax.com...
>
> Just connect 240 volts to the doorknobs. They'll die on your porch, but
> they wont get into the house. A dead Burglar is a good Burglar.
"Stormin Mormon" <cayoung61***spam...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:q6c5o711fknltcuev...@4ax.com...
>
> Just connect 240 volts to the doorknobs. They'll die on your porch, but
> they wont get into the house. A dead Burglar is a good Burglar.
news:4eAgr.101186$vR2....@news.usenetserver.com...
> From what I know of electrical wiring in USA, that's not possible. Unless
> you have a transformer.
From an outlet, maybe, but wired directly to the panel, red and black will
> you have a transformer.
get you 240VAC. Wiring it a doorknob and killing someone may get you 10
years to life for homicide. It's not allowed in any jurisdiction that I
know of. Now connecting the electrodes of a stun gun to the doorknob won't
kill them, but it will give them a buzz.
--
Bobby G.
HeyBub
Apr 10, 2012, 9:02:26 PM4/10/12
to
Robert Green wrote:
>
> From an outlet, maybe, but wired directly to the panel, red and black
> will get you 240VAC. Wiring it a doorknob and killing someone may
> get you 10 years to life for homicide. It's not allowed in any
> jurisdiction that I know of. Now connecting the electrodes of a stun
> gun to the doorknob won't kill them, but it will give them a buzz.
"Booby Traps" have been outlawed since at least the Magna Carta in 1216. The
>
> From an outlet, maybe, but wired directly to the panel, red and black
> will get you 240VAC. Wiring it a doorknob and killing someone may
> get you 10 years to life for homicide. It's not allowed in any
> jurisdiction that I know of. Now connecting the electrodes of a stun
> gun to the doorknob won't kill them, but it will give them a buzz.
reason is simple: There are any number of people who may enter your home
without your permission or even knowledge. Examples:
* A peace officer with a valid warrant
* A firefighter
* A child - children have no criminal capability
* A civil tresspasser
cl...@snyder.on.ca
Apr 10, 2012, 9:38:17 PM4/10/12
to
goodies under the hood safe.
Robert Green
Apr 12, 2012, 3:44:20 AM4/12/12
to
"HeyBub" <hey...@NOSPAMgmail.com> wrote in message
news:Sqidnfnanra4RRnS...@earthlink.com...
> The
> reason is simple: There are any number of people who may enter your home
> without your permission or even knowledge. Examples:
>
> * A peace officer with a valid warrant
> * A firefighter
> * A child - children have no criminal capability
You don't know the kids I know!
> * A civil tresspasser
He fell on the gun would be my claim. (-:
I did realize last night that one thing I can do as a deterrent while not
home is to use my Homevision controller to pulse the car alarm when
substantial motion is detected. If I hear something out in the driveway
late at night, I'll often turn on the LR and side light and tweak the car
alarm to make sure it's set. That's certain to give at least a hint of
occupancy. Maybe a recording of a pump shotgun racking would help, too.
Last night I was watching a Texas rancher threatening a repo man with a gun,
saying he had the right to shoot anyone coming on his property. Don't car
loan contracts require that the rancher allow an agent of the bank access to
the truck? In the end he backed down, probably because there was a film
crew, but he seemed quite sure of himself.
--
Bobby G.
news:Sqidnfnanra4RRnS...@earthlink.com...
> Robert Green wrote:
> >
> > From an outlet, maybe, but wired directly to the panel, red and black
> > will get you 240VAC. Wiring it a doorknob and killing someone may
> > get you 10 years to life for homicide. It's not allowed in any
> > jurisdiction that I know of. Now connecting the electrodes of a stun
> > gun to the doorknob won't kill them, but it will give them a buzz.
>
> "Booby Traps" have been outlawed since at least the Magna Carta in 1216.
Deadfall is so much more descriptive.
> >
> > From an outlet, maybe, but wired directly to the panel, red and black
> > will get you 240VAC. Wiring it a doorknob and killing someone may
> > get you 10 years to life for homicide. It's not allowed in any
> > jurisdiction that I know of. Now connecting the electrodes of a stun
> > gun to the doorknob won't kill them, but it will give them a buzz.
>
> "Booby Traps" have been outlawed since at least the Magna Carta in 1216.
> The
> reason is simple: There are any number of people who may enter your home
> without your permission or even knowledge. Examples:
>
> * A peace officer with a valid warrant
> * A firefighter
> * A child - children have no criminal capability
> * A civil tresspasser
He fell on the gun would be my claim. (-:
I did realize last night that one thing I can do as a deterrent while not
home is to use my Homevision controller to pulse the car alarm when
substantial motion is detected. If I hear something out in the driveway
late at night, I'll often turn on the LR and side light and tweak the car
alarm to make sure it's set. That's certain to give at least a hint of
occupancy. Maybe a recording of a pump shotgun racking would help, too.
Last night I was watching a Texas rancher threatening a repo man with a gun,
saying he had the right to shoot anyone coming on his property. Don't car
loan contracts require that the rancher allow an agent of the bank access to
the truck? In the end he backed down, probably because there was a film
crew, but he seemed quite sure of himself.
--
Bobby G.
Robert Green
Apr 12, 2012, 3:46:46 AM4/12/12
to
<cl...@snyder.on.ca> wrote in message
news:v1o9o7leeuoa80vc4...@4ax.com...
From my limited experience, a lot of times people end up caught in their own
booby traps. I had the world's loudest siren mounted inside my van running
off a separate battery and triggered by a time delay motion sensor. One day
I didn't disarm it in time. The next day I took it out, my ears still
ringing.
--
Bobby G.
news:v1o9o7leeuoa80vc4...@4ax.com...
booby traps. I had the world's loudest siren mounted inside my van running
off a separate battery and triggered by a time delay motion sensor. One day
I didn't disarm it in time. The next day I took it out, my ears still
ringing.
--
Bobby G.
HeyBub
Apr 12, 2012, 8:58:10 AM4/12/12
to
Robert Green wrote:
>
> Last night I was watching a Texas rancher threatening a repo man with
> a gun, saying he had the right to shoot anyone coming on his
> property. Don't car loan contracts require that the rancher allow an
> agent of the bank access to the truck? In the end he backed down,
> probably because there was a film crew, but he seemed quite sure of
> himself.
I'm in Texas and can confidently report that the rancher was wrong. However,
>
> Last night I was watching a Texas rancher threatening a repo man with
> a gun, saying he had the right to shoot anyone coming on his
> property. Don't car loan contracts require that the rancher allow an
> agent of the bank access to the truck? In the end he backed down,
> probably because there was a film crew, but he seemed quite sure of
> himself.
a civil contract has no bearing on the criminal law. Also note the
following:
Follow along. First a definition:
Texas Penal Code: § 28.03. CRIMINAL MISCHIEF. (a) A person commits an
offense if, without the effective consent of the owner:
(1) he intentionally or knowingly damages or destroys the tangible
property of the owner;
(2) he intentionally or knowingly tampers with the tangible property of
the owner and causes pecuniary loss or substantial inconvenience to the
owner or a third person; or
(3) he intentionally or knowingly makes markings, including inscriptions,
slogans, drawings, or paintings, on the tangible property of the owner.
Now check this out (emphasis added):
Texas Penal Code: § 9.42. DEADLY FORCE TO PROTECT PROPERTY. A person is
justified in using deadly force against another to protect land or tangible,
movable property:
(2) when and to the degree he reasonably believes the deadly force is
immediately necessary:
(A) to prevent the other's imminent commission of arson, burglary,
robbery, aggravated robbery, theft during the nighttime, or CRIMINAL
MISCHIEF during the nighttime; or
cl...@snyder.on.ca
Apr 12, 2012, 1:06:36 PM4/12/12
to
On Thu, 12 Apr 2012 03:46:46 -0400, "Robert Green"
The old Valiant charged my batteries a few times when I forgot to
disarm the hood before checking the oil. Just made me a bit more
carefull the next time. Untill I forgot again.
NOBODY would risk opening the hood after the word got around!!!
disarm the hood before checking the oil. Just made me a bit more
carefull the next time. Untill I forgot again.
NOBODY would risk opening the hood after the word got around!!!
The Daring Dufas
Apr 20, 2012, 7:10:04 PM4/20/12
to
On 4/6/2012 11:41 AM, Frank wrote:
> On 4/6/2012 12:31 PM, Jim Yanik wrote:
>> Rebel1<Reb...@optonline.net> wrote in
>> news:4f7f07eb$0$30079$607e...@cv.net:
>>
>>> Because of a recent burglary, I am going to install an alarm system in
>>> my single-family ranch home (no basement)that I reside in alone. The
>>> street is a quiet, family-oriented one (no loud cars, boom boxes,
>>> tough-looking guys of any age).
>>>
>>> The considerations (aimed at burglar detection):
>>> 1. A silent alarm so the cops might catch them in the act, vs. one
>>> that lights lights and beeps horns to scare them away (so they're free
>>> to strike elsewhere).
>>
>> Noisy alarms will likely anger neighbors when they eventually false.
>> False alarms also desensitize neighbors who then ignore them,or even file
>> complaints.
>>>
>>> 2. A silent alarm that signals me if I'm home, so I could defend
>>> myself with a gun. If I'm away, the alarm could notify a next-door
>>> neighbor, a monitoring service, or the police. Police allow three
>>> false alarms a year before charging. (I believe there are systems that
>>> will call my cell phone, but it's always off and in my car, as it is
>>> used only for calls that I originate.)
>>
>> Could you get home in time to DO anything?
>> If you call the police to respond,you still have the problem of false
>> alarms.
>>>
>>> 3. Beefed up barriers to entry, like locking bars for sliding doors,
>>> and high quality door locks. Problem is, if place looks too fortified,
>>> rather than being deterred burglars might see this as a sign that
>>> there is really valuable stuff inside and make a more determined (and
>>> damaging) effort to enter.
>>
>> don't forget reinforced door jambs.
>> often,burglars just use a crowbar to force open the door frame.
>> a deadbolt is only as good as the door frame it slides into.
>> First thing I did when I moved into my apartment was to install a big
>> metal
>> plate for the deadbolt,and long bolts into the stud beneath the flimsy
>> trim
>> piece of the frame. you can buy them at home improvement stores. if the
>> door is wood,that is also a vulnerability,but they make reinforcing
>> plates
>> for them too. a wood door can split when hit hard,or pried upon with a
>> crowbar.
>>>
>>> 4. How easy is it to defeat? The incoming AC power cable is enclosed
>>> in heavy duty metal conduit. But it would be easy to cut the flimsy
>>> pin that locks the cover over the meter and simply remove the meter.
>>> The cable TV and phone lines are not enclosed and are easy to cut and
>>> thereby defeat ordinary landlines or phone service via the cable
>>> company. This forces a battery-backup wireless system.
>>
>> it's pretty rare that a burglar will cut power/phone lines.
>>>
>>> 5. Camera: Do they really do much good in deterring via their visible
>>> presence or in identifying a suspect that the cops catch?
>>>
>>> Other measures (mainly home security):
>>>
>>> 1. Lights on timers.
>>> 2. Radio or TV on all the time.
>> or on a timer.
>>> 3. Shades for the garage window so nobody can see if a car is present.
>>
>> or dark window tint.lets light in,but makes it too hard to see inside.
>>
>>> In my neighborhood, a car is a necessity as it's a mile to a major
>>> highway. So if the garage is empty, it's a excellent indication that
>>> the house is empty also.
>>> 4. Locking bars on sliding doors.
>> GOOD idea.
>>> 5. Double-key deadbolts on doors with glass panes, so burglars can't
>>> break a window and simply reach in and unlock a single-key deadbolt.
>> GOOD idea. I never liked having a window right next to a door.
>>
>>> 6. Fake decals warning that a system is installed even if not true.
>>
>> Burglars are probably used to those.spot them a mile away.
>>>
>>> After writing the above, I came across a book on amazon.com called
>>> Essential Home Security: A Layman's Guide. Clicking on the Table of
>>> Contents link,
>>>
>>> http://www.amazon.com/Essential-Home-Security-Laymans-Guide/dp/14537320
>>> 39/ref=sr_1_14?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1333721382&sr=1-14#reader_1453
>>> 732039
>>>
>>> it appears to address my concerns and many, many factors that I have
>>> not considered. I can't tell, however, if he addresses defeating the
>>> systems (consideration 4 above).
>>>
>>> One of the reviewers was annoyed because the book was self-published
>>> (so what?) and because there were no specific product recommendations.
>>> The other reviews gave it high marks for at least pointing out
>>> vulnerabilities you may have.
>> them
>> think someone is home so they don't try to get in.
>>
>> a major problem with an alarm is "who is going to respond to it?"
>> Do you expect your neighbors to come over and check it out?
>> there are monitored alarm systems that cost you a yearly subscription.
>> I've heard not-good things about ADT.(I have no financial interest in any
>> alarm company.)
>>
>>
>> you can get security cams that record to a (hidden)PC,and that you can
>> even
>> check your house out from online. they are good to see if you have
>> outdoor
>> prowlers,maybe peeking in windows to see if anyone's home. police have
>> caught burglars who were recorded on security cams.
>>
>
> Everybody in my neighborhood has alarms and everybody ignores it when a
> neighbor's alarm goes off as 99% are false alarms. If your alarm goes
> directly to the police you risk a fine for a 2nd false alarm and a third
> will cost you more. Neighbor was complaining that it cost her $500 last
> year.
Cameras with an attached means of recording can show you and police
whether or not it's a false alarm. One homeowner had a problem with
the police department over multiple 911 calls coming from his home.
It turned out to be squirrels chewing on his phone line. I was in the
alarm industry many years ago and saw some very strange things cause
false alarms. ^_^
TDD
> On 4/6/2012 12:31 PM, Jim Yanik wrote:
>> Rebel1<Reb...@optonline.net> wrote in
>> news:4f7f07eb$0$30079$607e...@cv.net:
>>
>>> Because of a recent burglary, I am going to install an alarm system in
>>> my single-family ranch home (no basement)that I reside in alone. The
>>> street is a quiet, family-oriented one (no loud cars, boom boxes,
>>> tough-looking guys of any age).
>>>
>>> The considerations (aimed at burglar detection):
>>> 1. A silent alarm so the cops might catch them in the act, vs. one
>>> that lights lights and beeps horns to scare them away (so they're free
>>> to strike elsewhere).
>>
>> Noisy alarms will likely anger neighbors when they eventually false.
>> False alarms also desensitize neighbors who then ignore them,or even file
>> complaints.
>>>
>>> 2. A silent alarm that signals me if I'm home, so I could defend
>>> myself with a gun. If I'm away, the alarm could notify a next-door
>>> neighbor, a monitoring service, or the police. Police allow three
>>> false alarms a year before charging. (I believe there are systems that
>>> will call my cell phone, but it's always off and in my car, as it is
>>> used only for calls that I originate.)
>>
>> Could you get home in time to DO anything?
>> If you call the police to respond,you still have the problem of false
>> alarms.
>>>
>>> 3. Beefed up barriers to entry, like locking bars for sliding doors,
>>> and high quality door locks. Problem is, if place looks too fortified,
>>> rather than being deterred burglars might see this as a sign that
>>> there is really valuable stuff inside and make a more determined (and
>>> damaging) effort to enter.
>>
>> don't forget reinforced door jambs.
>> often,burglars just use a crowbar to force open the door frame.
>> a deadbolt is only as good as the door frame it slides into.
>> First thing I did when I moved into my apartment was to install a big
>> metal
>> plate for the deadbolt,and long bolts into the stud beneath the flimsy
>> trim
>> piece of the frame. you can buy them at home improvement stores. if the
>> door is wood,that is also a vulnerability,but they make reinforcing
>> plates
>> for them too. a wood door can split when hit hard,or pried upon with a
>> crowbar.
>>>
>>> 4. How easy is it to defeat? The incoming AC power cable is enclosed
>>> in heavy duty metal conduit. But it would be easy to cut the flimsy
>>> pin that locks the cover over the meter and simply remove the meter.
>>> The cable TV and phone lines are not enclosed and are easy to cut and
>>> thereby defeat ordinary landlines or phone service via the cable
>>> company. This forces a battery-backup wireless system.
>>
>> it's pretty rare that a burglar will cut power/phone lines.
>>>
>>> 5. Camera: Do they really do much good in deterring via their visible
>>> presence or in identifying a suspect that the cops catch?
>>>
>>> Other measures (mainly home security):
>>>
>>> 1. Lights on timers.
>>> 2. Radio or TV on all the time.
>> or on a timer.
>>> 3. Shades for the garage window so nobody can see if a car is present.
>>
>> or dark window tint.lets light in,but makes it too hard to see inside.
>>
>>> In my neighborhood, a car is a necessity as it's a mile to a major
>>> highway. So if the garage is empty, it's a excellent indication that
>>> the house is empty also.
>>> 4. Locking bars on sliding doors.
>> GOOD idea.
>>> 5. Double-key deadbolts on doors with glass panes, so burglars can't
>>> break a window and simply reach in and unlock a single-key deadbolt.
>> GOOD idea. I never liked having a window right next to a door.
>>
>>> 6. Fake decals warning that a system is installed even if not true.
>>
>> Burglars are probably used to those.spot them a mile away.
>>>
>>> After writing the above, I came across a book on amazon.com called
>>> Essential Home Security: A Layman's Guide. Clicking on the Table of
>>> Contents link,
>>>
>>> http://www.amazon.com/Essential-Home-Security-Laymans-Guide/dp/14537320
>>> 39/ref=sr_1_14?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1333721382&sr=1-14#reader_1453
>>> 732039
>>>
>>> it appears to address my concerns and many, many factors that I have
>>> not considered. I can't tell, however, if he addresses defeating the
>>> systems (consideration 4 above).
>>>
>>> One of the reviewers was annoyed because the book was self-published
>>> (so what?) and because there were no specific product recommendations.
>>> The other reviews gave it high marks for at least pointing out
>>> vulnerabilities you may have.
>>>
>>> Thanks for your comments/feedback.
>>>
>>> R1
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> the best defense is to make it too hard for them to get in,and to make
>>> Thanks for your comments/feedback.
>>>
>>> R1
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> them
>> think someone is home so they don't try to get in.
>>
>> a major problem with an alarm is "who is going to respond to it?"
>> Do you expect your neighbors to come over and check it out?
>> there are monitored alarm systems that cost you a yearly subscription.
>> I've heard not-good things about ADT.(I have no financial interest in any
>> alarm company.)
>>
>>
>> you can get security cams that record to a (hidden)PC,and that you can
>> even
>> check your house out from online. they are good to see if you have
>> outdoor
>> prowlers,maybe peeking in windows to see if anyone's home. police have
>> caught burglars who were recorded on security cams.
>>
>
> Everybody in my neighborhood has alarms and everybody ignores it when a
> neighbor's alarm goes off as 99% are false alarms. If your alarm goes
> directly to the police you risk a fine for a 2nd false alarm and a third
> will cost you more. Neighbor was complaining that it cost her $500 last
> year.
Cameras with an attached means of recording can show you and police
whether or not it's a false alarm. One homeowner had a problem with
the police department over multiple 911 calls coming from his home.
It turned out to be squirrels chewing on his phone line. I was in the
alarm industry many years ago and saw some very strange things cause
false alarms. ^_^
TDD
The Daring Dufas
Apr 20, 2012, 7:31:18 PM4/20/12
to
On 4/6/2012 2:45 PM, cl...@snyder.on.ca wrote:
> On Fri, 06 Apr 2012 11:31:19 -0500, Jim Yanik<jya...@abuse.gov>
> It's always best to know about them BEFORE they get in.
>
> Perimeter detection is better than interior motion detectors. If you
> carry a smart phone (which you do not) 2 way communication is
> available - you get to see if anything is out of the ordinary on your
> cameras, and speak to the house.
>
> You can even answer the doorebell from across the world. If the
> doorbell rings, your phone notifies you, and you can see who is at the
> door. If they look suspicious you can tell them they've got 30 seconds
> before you come out guns blazing, or whatever.
Back in the early 1980's I had a friend who owned a huge malamute dog
and the dog had a very intimidating growl and bark. I recorded the dog
growling at 7.5"/sec then slowed it down to 1.5"/sec which made it sound
like a monster. Since I was building powerful audio amps and large
speakers at the time, the monster growl could be felt in your chest when
played through one of my PA systems. I setup very sensitive vibration
switches and motion detectors to trigger the the sound system and tape
when we were away from the shop and any miscreant nosing around the shop
would have a hair raising experience when he touched the back door knob
or windows which would actually rattle from the sound. ^_^
TDD
> On Fri, 06 Apr 2012 11:31:19 -0500, Jim Yanik<jya...@abuse.gov>
>
> Perimeter detection is better than interior motion detectors. If you
> carry a smart phone (which you do not) 2 way communication is
> available - you get to see if anything is out of the ordinary on your
> cameras, and speak to the house.
>
> You can even answer the doorebell from across the world. If the
> doorbell rings, your phone notifies you, and you can see who is at the
> door. If they look suspicious you can tell them they've got 30 seconds
> before you come out guns blazing, or whatever.
Back in the early 1980's I had a friend who owned a huge malamute dog
and the dog had a very intimidating growl and bark. I recorded the dog
growling at 7.5"/sec then slowed it down to 1.5"/sec which made it sound
like a monster. Since I was building powerful audio amps and large
speakers at the time, the monster growl could be felt in your chest when
played through one of my PA systems. I setup very sensitive vibration
switches and motion detectors to trigger the the sound system and tape
when we were away from the shop and any miscreant nosing around the shop
would have a hair raising experience when he touched the back door knob
or windows which would actually rattle from the sound. ^_^
TDD
The Daring Dufas
Apr 20, 2012, 10:01:23 PM4/20/12
to
On 4/6/2012 3:03 PM, cl...@snyder.on.ca wrote:
> On Fri, 6 Apr 2012 10:28:39 -0700 (PDT), Robert Macy
> <robert...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> I was told by police of 7th largest city in US that in their
>> experience NEVER had power/telephone lines cut by a burglar, even when
>> all is prominently above ground and accessible.
>>
>> ALARMS:
>> local alarm
>> external: loud/obnoxious for 5+ minutes, won't anger neighbors too
>> much, lights flashing for 10+ minutes. There may be ordinances
>> concerning noise makers. I mounted my siren INSIDE our home pointing
>> out through vent opening to meet local ordinance, yet still make noise
>> outside.
>> internal: loud/obnoxious 120+dB WITH lights flashing for 20 minutes
>>
>> silent/monitored alarm
>> 1-2 minutes BEFORE loud local alarms, silent alarm - maybe local
>> response actually catch someone exiting
>>
>> cameras: for record/review, possible identification, system connect to
>> internet to notify you via cell phone, or to service. It is a nice
>> feature to be able to check for prowlers while you're inside. Once, I
>> put in military grade proximity alarms, even included radar that
>> looked through walls to 10 foot regions outside. You could NOT believe
>> the number of people that wandered around outside at night!
>>
>> outside indicators:
>> no decal, just a visible alarm bell - not so discretely tucked away.
>>
>> As far as 'fortressing' your home...
>> For valuables, after having a safety deposit box mysteriously lose
>> some contents [had written list of complete contents at home for
>> comparison] decided to NEVER let valuables out of my hands again.
>> Thus, used the dead spaces under our cabinetry in bathroom and kitchen
>> and built fake back walls into several closets. I converted the
>> kickstep covers for the cabinetry to become removable. Each was held
>> in place with those "push to open" latches. Contents under cabinets
>> were those heavy coin collections etc, heavy, thin flat items, more
>> than 200 lb total. The spaces made by the fake back walls in the
>> closets were to enclose larger items, like sterlingware, special
>> jewelry, etc. and wife's collection of furs. NOBODY knew about the
>> false areas, except us. Then added a more conventional, and
>> prominent, bolt down safe to occupy anyone who wanted to hang around
>> and get the lollipop out of it. Thus, the home was secure, but did
>> not appear to be fortified.
>> Pass the word around that your home has NOTHING of value inside it,
>> has cameras security etc just to prevent potential vandalism from any
>> angry intruder.
> My brother's vacation home/trailer was a target for theives until he
> installed an X10 alarm system with cameras and PC recorder - and a set
> of Fiamm air horms - all run off a good UPS system so it works even 8
> hours after the power is disconnected.
>
> One miscreant left a patch of denim with better than a square inch of
> skin/flesh from his shin on the "downspoout re-enforcement" at the
> back corner of the trailer when he headed for the bush when the
> flood-lights came on and blinded him.
>
> That was the last episode - on a cold stormy winter night when the
> power was out in the whole area and the guy must have figured the
> "obvious" alarm system would be useless.
>
> The neighbours know if they hear the air horn something untoward is
> going on at the place on the bend - and they are often there, cell
> phone in hand, by the time my brother is online checking out the
> cameras. The last time the neighbour had the police called within
> minutes. Didn't get the guy, but he spent a long cold (and apparently
> painfull) night in the bush, because the cops were around for quite
> some time waiting for him to come out. When my brother got there next
> morning he found tracks leading from the bush to a house down the way
> that is known to be trouble - no proof it was him, but apparently all
> his bad-news buddies now know it's not worth the effort.
I had a friend who bought a small apartment complex from the city and
had a problem with trespassers invading the place at night while he
repaired the damaged done to the units by metal thieves. I gave him an
Edwards 870P-N5 AdaptaHorn wired up to some motion detecting flood
lights. We installed the lights/horn behind the complex where there was
a barbed wire fence. One night he was awakened by the horn going off and
the next morning he found bits of torn black cloth and bloody chunks of
human flesh all over the barbed wire fence. Word got out and he had no
more nightly visitations. ^_^
http://www.edwards-signals.com/index.cfm?pid=257&level=45
TDD
> On Fri, 6 Apr 2012 10:28:39 -0700 (PDT), Robert Macy
> <robert...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Apr 6, 8:12 am, Rebel1<Reb...@optonline.net> wrote:
>>> Because of a recent burglary, I am going to install an alarm system in
>>> my single-family ranch home (no basement)that I reside in alone. The
>>> street is a quiet, family-oriented one (no loud cars, boom boxes,
>>> tough-looking guys of any age).
>>>
>>> The considerations (aimed at burglar detection):
>>> 1. A silent alarm so the cops might catch them in the act, vs. one that
>>> lights lights and beeps horns to scare them away (so they're free to
>>> strike elsewhere).
>>>
>> On Apr 6, 8:12 am, Rebel1<Reb...@optonline.net> wrote:
>>> Because of a recent burglary, I am going to install an alarm system in
>>> my single-family ranch home (no basement)that I reside in alone. The
>>> street is a quiet, family-oriented one (no loud cars, boom boxes,
>>> tough-looking guys of any age).
>>>
>>> The considerations (aimed at burglar detection):
>>> 1. A silent alarm so the cops might catch them in the act, vs. one that
>>> lights lights and beeps horns to scare them away (so they're free to
>>> strike elsewhere).
>>>
>>> 2. A silent alarm that signals me if I'm home, so I could defend myself
>>> with a gun. If I'm away, the alarm could notify a next-door neighbor, a
>>> monitoring service, or the police. Police allow three false alarms a
>>> year before charging. (I believe there are systems that will call my
>>> cell phone, but it's always off and in my car, as it is used only for
>>> calls that I originate.)
>>>
>>> with a gun. If I'm away, the alarm could notify a next-door neighbor, a
>>> monitoring service, or the police. Police allow three false alarms a
>>> year before charging. (I believe there are systems that will call my
>>> cell phone, but it's always off and in my car, as it is used only for
>>> calls that I originate.)
>>>
>>> 3. Beefed up barriers to entry, like locking bars for sliding doors, and
>>> high quality door locks. Problem is, if place looks too fortified,
>>> rather than being deterred burglars might see this as a sign that there
>>> is really valuable stuff inside and make a more determined (and
>>> damaging) effort to enter.
>>>
>>> high quality door locks. Problem is, if place looks too fortified,
>>> rather than being deterred burglars might see this as a sign that there
>>> is really valuable stuff inside and make a more determined (and
>>> damaging) effort to enter.
>>>
>>> 4. How easy is it to defeat? The incoming AC power cable is enclosed in
>>> heavy duty metal conduit. But it would be easy to cut the flimsy pin
>>> that locks the cover over the meter and simply remove the meter. The
>>> cable TV and phone lines are not enclosed and are easy to cut and
>>> thereby defeat ordinary landlines or phone service via the cable
>>> company. This forces a battery-backup wireless system.
>>>
>>> heavy duty metal conduit. But it would be easy to cut the flimsy pin
>>> that locks the cover over the meter and simply remove the meter. The
>>> cable TV and phone lines are not enclosed and are easy to cut and
>>> thereby defeat ordinary landlines or phone service via the cable
>>> company. This forces a battery-backup wireless system.
>>>
>>> 5. Camera: Do they really do much good in deterring via their visible
>>> presence or in identifying a suspect that the cops catch?
>>>
>>> Other measures (mainly home security):
>>>
>>> 1. Lights on timers.
>>> 2. Radio or TV on all the time.
>>> presence or in identifying a suspect that the cops catch?
>>>
>>> Other measures (mainly home security):
>>>
>>> 1. Lights on timers.
>>> 2. Radio or TV on all the time.
>>> 3. Shades for the garage window so nobody can see if a car is present.
>>> In my neighborhood, a car is a necessity as it's a mile to a major
>>> highway. So if the garage is empty, it's a excellent indication that the
>>> house is empty also.
>>> 4. Locking bars on sliding doors.
>>> highway. So if the garage is empty, it's a excellent indication that the
>>> house is empty also.
>>> 4. Locking bars on sliding doors.
>>> 5. Double-key deadbolts on doors with glass panes, so burglars can't
>>> break a window and simply reach in and unlock a single-key deadbolt.
>>> break a window and simply reach in and unlock a single-key deadbolt.
>>> 6. Fake decals warning that a system is installed even if not true.
>>>
>>>
>>> After writing the above, I came across a book on amazon.com called
>>> Essential Home Security: A Layman's Guide. Clicking on the Table of
>>> Contents link,
>>>
>>> http://www.amazon.com/Essential-Home-Security-Laymans-Guide/dp/145373...
>>> Essential Home Security: A Layman's Guide. Clicking on the Table of
>>> Contents link,
>>>
>>>
>>> it appears to address my concerns and many, many factors that I have not
>>> considered. I can't tell, however, if he addresses defeating the systems
>>> (consideration 4 above).
>>>
>>> One of the reviewers was annoyed because the book was self-published (so
>>> what?) and because there were no specific product recommendations. The
>>> other reviews gave it high marks for at least pointing out
>>> vulnerabilities you may have.
>>>
>>> Thanks for your comments/feedback.
>>>
>>> R1
>>
>> My comments/opinions:
>>> it appears to address my concerns and many, many factors that I have not
>>> considered. I can't tell, however, if he addresses defeating the systems
>>> (consideration 4 above).
>>>
>>> One of the reviewers was annoyed because the book was self-published (so
>>> what?) and because there were no specific product recommendations. The
>>> other reviews gave it high marks for at least pointing out
>>> vulnerabilities you may have.
>>>
>>> Thanks for your comments/feedback.
>>>
>>> R1
>>
>>
>> I was told by police of 7th largest city in US that in their
>> experience NEVER had power/telephone lines cut by a burglar, even when
>> all is prominently above ground and accessible.
>>
>> ALARMS:
>> local alarm
>> external: loud/obnoxious for 5+ minutes, won't anger neighbors too
>> much, lights flashing for 10+ minutes. There may be ordinances
>> concerning noise makers. I mounted my siren INSIDE our home pointing
>> out through vent opening to meet local ordinance, yet still make noise
>> outside.
>> internal: loud/obnoxious 120+dB WITH lights flashing for 20 minutes
>>
>> silent/monitored alarm
>> 1-2 minutes BEFORE loud local alarms, silent alarm - maybe local
>> response actually catch someone exiting
>>
>> cameras: for record/review, possible identification, system connect to
>> internet to notify you via cell phone, or to service. It is a nice
>> feature to be able to check for prowlers while you're inside. Once, I
>> put in military grade proximity alarms, even included radar that
>> looked through walls to 10 foot regions outside. You could NOT believe
>> the number of people that wandered around outside at night!
>>
>> outside indicators:
>> no decal, just a visible alarm bell - not so discretely tucked away.
>>
>> As far as 'fortressing' your home...
>> For valuables, after having a safety deposit box mysteriously lose
>> some contents [had written list of complete contents at home for
>> comparison] decided to NEVER let valuables out of my hands again.
>> Thus, used the dead spaces under our cabinetry in bathroom and kitchen
>> and built fake back walls into several closets. I converted the
>> kickstep covers for the cabinetry to become removable. Each was held
>> in place with those "push to open" latches. Contents under cabinets
>> were those heavy coin collections etc, heavy, thin flat items, more
>> than 200 lb total. The spaces made by the fake back walls in the
>> closets were to enclose larger items, like sterlingware, special
>> jewelry, etc. and wife's collection of furs. NOBODY knew about the
>> false areas, except us. Then added a more conventional, and
>> prominent, bolt down safe to occupy anyone who wanted to hang around
>> and get the lollipop out of it. Thus, the home was secure, but did
>> not appear to be fortified.
>> Pass the word around that your home has NOTHING of value inside it,
>> has cameras security etc just to prevent potential vandalism from any
>> angry intruder.
> My brother's vacation home/trailer was a target for theives until he
> installed an X10 alarm system with cameras and PC recorder - and a set
> of Fiamm air horms - all run off a good UPS system so it works even 8
> hours after the power is disconnected.
>
> One miscreant left a patch of denim with better than a square inch of
> skin/flesh from his shin on the "downspoout re-enforcement" at the
> back corner of the trailer when he headed for the bush when the
> flood-lights came on and blinded him.
>
> That was the last episode - on a cold stormy winter night when the
> power was out in the whole area and the guy must have figured the
> "obvious" alarm system would be useless.
>
> The neighbours know if they hear the air horn something untoward is
> going on at the place on the bend - and they are often there, cell
> phone in hand, by the time my brother is online checking out the
> cameras. The last time the neighbour had the police called within
> minutes. Didn't get the guy, but he spent a long cold (and apparently
> painfull) night in the bush, because the cops were around for quite
> some time waiting for him to come out. When my brother got there next
> morning he found tracks leading from the bush to a house down the way
> that is known to be trouble - no proof it was him, but apparently all
> his bad-news buddies now know it's not worth the effort.
I had a friend who bought a small apartment complex from the city and
had a problem with trespassers invading the place at night while he
repaired the damaged done to the units by metal thieves. I gave him an
Edwards 870P-N5 AdaptaHorn wired up to some motion detecting flood
lights. We installed the lights/horn behind the complex where there was
a barbed wire fence. One night he was awakened by the horn going off and
the next morning he found bits of torn black cloth and bloody chunks of
human flesh all over the barbed wire fence. Word got out and he had no
more nightly visitations. ^_^
http://www.edwards-signals.com/index.cfm?pid=257&level=45
TDD
It is loading more messages.
0 new messages