Are stainless steel braided supply lines really better?

[larrymo...@my-deja.com]

All the TV home repair shows recommend connecting
plumbing fixtures and clothes washers through steel braided
supply lines, but I noticed the hose inside those lines is just
unreinforced clear vinyl.

Are there steel braided lines they really less likely to break and flood
my house than regular lines made of just nylon reinforced rubber?
I ended up using soft copper tubing because I wasn't sure, but
copper wouldn't be practical for a dishwasher. So are there steel
braided supply lines that have reinforced hoses in them?

[tra...@optonline.net]

I see the same thing, that various sources are recommending them.
Even if the inside is a traditional type hose material, I think the
steel braiding is there to prevent a sudden, catastrophic blowout.

If you prefer copper, why can't you use it for a dishwasher? It's
been used for decades for that. Mine uses it. The connection is
near the front, so you can hook it up after the unit is in place.
Line goes underneath, no problem.

[Bob F]

I used one on a water heater. It failed in less than 2 years.

[Paul Drahn]

The only purpose of the ss braid is to keep the hose from kinking, or
possible ballooning if a weak spot develops in the inner tube.

Paul

[NotMe]

<larrymo...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:c9a0e9cc-b38d-4fcc...@googlegroups.com...

[harryagain]

<larrymo...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:c9a0e9cc-b38d-4fcc...@googlegroups.com...

The braiding IS the reinforcing.
Avoid like the plague, especially upstairs where a leak could be a greater
catastrophy.
(Usually at night when water pressure is highest)
At some point they let go.

They are for mickey mouse plumbers that can't make the pipework fit.

[recycl...@gmail.com]

“Are there steel braided lines they really less likely to break and flood
my house than regular lines made of just nylon reinforced rubber?”

Steel or metal is always better than nylon, plastic or rubber.

“I ended up using soft copper tubing because I wasn't sure, but
copper wouldn't be practical for a dishwasher.”

Soft copper tubing was all everyone used to use on dishwashers for fifty years. I like to flare the ends and use flare fittings instead of compression myself. If you use soft copper for faucets you need to use a lockridge tool if you know what that is. I stopped using soft copper though because I don’t trust the Chinese quality control. Those water heater copper connectors used to last longer than the water heater until they started making them with thinner copper.

[micky]

On Thu, 29 Aug 2013 18:00:26 -0700 (PDT), larrymo...@my-deja.com
wrote:

>All the TV home repair shows recommend connecting
>plumbing fixtures and clothes washers through steel braided
>supply lines, but I noticed the hose inside those lines is just
>unreinforced clear vinyl.
>
>Are there steel braided lines they really less likely to break and flood
>my house than regular lines made of just nylon reinforced rubber?
>I ended up using soft copper tubing because I wasn't sure, but
>copper wouldn't be practical for a dishwasher.

I don't see why not. The copper can connect by removing the lower
front panel, and isn't that the way a flexible hose connects anyhow?

OTOH, I wouldn't want to use copper for the clothes washer because it
has to be bent everytime It's necessary to pull he washer away from
the wall or put back.

>So are there steel
>braided supply lines that have reinforced hoses in them?

The steel braid is the reinforcing.

[k...@attt.bizz]

On Thu, 29 Aug 2013 18:13:42 -0700 (PDT), "tra...@optonline.net"
<tra...@optonline.net> wrote:

>On Thursday, August 29, 2013 9:00:26 PM UTC-4, larrymo...@my-deja.com wrote:
>> All the TV home repair shows recommend connecting
>>
>> plumbing fixtures and clothes washers through steel braided
>>
>> supply lines, but I noticed the hose inside those lines is just
>>
>> unreinforced clear vinyl.
>>
>>
>>
>> Are there steel braided lines they really less likely to break and flood
>>
>> my house than regular lines made of just nylon reinforced rubber?
>>
>> I ended up using soft copper tubing because I wasn't sure, but
>>
>> copper wouldn't be practical for a dishwasher. So are there steel
>>
>> braided supply lines that have reinforced hoses in them?
>
>
>I see the same thing, that various sources are recommending them.
>Even if the inside is a traditional type hose material, I think the
>steel braiding is there to prevent a sudden, catastrophic blowout.

Exactly. The stainless braid keeps the rubber inside from developing
a bulge. It might develop a leak but it won't suddenly rupture, like
an aneurysm.

>If you prefer copper, why can't you use it for a dishwasher? It's
>been used for decades for that. Mine uses it. The connection is
>near the front, so you can hook it up after the unit is in place.
>Line goes underneath, no problem.

The last one I installed specified stainless braided hose. There was
no room to get one's fingers underneath to connect anything after it
was installed. Nice dishwasher (Electrolux); more vertical space than
other models. Very quiet, too. We'll replace the one (contractor's
crap) in this house with one, in a year or so.

[Red Green]

"Bob F" <bobn...@gmail.com> wrote in news:kvouv7$hhr$1...@dont-email.me:

Can't be buying them Harbor Freight water heaters.


:-)

[Jon Danniken]

I used a Watts brand stainless braided hose for my (incoming) water
heater connection. I was very suspicious of not using a copper flex,
but researching the inner core material (Santoprene from ExxonMobile)
revealed that it was designed for a high lifespan in extreme
(temperature, pressure, chemical resistance) environments.

Jon

[sms]

On 8/29/2013 6:00 PM, larrymo...@my-deja.com wrote:

It makes people feel better to say "stainless steel" but the reality is
that these hoses can and do break and flood houses. My friend recently
had that happen causing thousands of dollars in damage.

What you want are flood-safe hoses.

[Congoleum Breckenridge]

On 8/30/2013 8:36 PM, sms wrote:
> On 8/29/2013 6:00 PM, larrymo...@my-deja.com wrote:
>> All the TV home repair shows recommend connecting
>> plumbing fixtures and clothes washers through steel braided
>> supply lines, but I noticed the hose inside those lines is just
>> unreinforced clear vinyl.
>>
>> Are there steel braided lines they really less likely to break and flood
>> my house than regular lines made of just nylon reinforced rubber?
>> I ended up using soft copper tubing because I wasn't sure, but
>> copper wouldn't be practical for a dishwasher. So are there steel
>> braided supply lines that have reinforced hoses in them?

I like these:
http://www.lowes.com/pd_198156-135-9008138016_4294859096__?productId=3692912&Ns=p_product_qty_sales_dollar|1

[Higgs Boson]

On Thursday, August 29, 2013 6:00:26 PM UTC-7, larrymo...@my-deja.com wrote:
> All the TV home repair shows recommend connecting
>
> plumbing fixtures and clothes washers through steel braided
>
> supply lines, but I noticed the hose inside those lines is just
>
> unreinforced clear vinyl.
>
>
>
> Are there steel braided lines they really less likely to break and flood
>
> my house than regular lines made of just nylon reinforced rubber?
>
> I ended up using soft copper tubing because I wasn't sure, but
>
> copper wouldn't be practical for a dishwasher.

Naive civilian wants to know WHY copper wouldn't be practical for a dishwasher

HB

[nestork]

'Higgs Boson[_2_ Wrote:
> ;3114692']

> Naive civilian wants to know WHY copper wouldn't be practical for a
> dishwasher
>

I don't see any good reason why flexible 3/8 inch copper tubing wouldn't
work equally well for a dish washer water supply line.




--
nestork

[micky]

On Fri, 30 Aug 2013 17:36:18 -0700, sms <scharf...@geemail.com>
wrote:

What part of it broke? Did a strand snap and the weave come undone?

Did the stainles steel separate from the hose end and the inner hose
burst ?

I don't see how either of those could happen so I'd like to hear
details of what was wrong with the hose after it was over.

[micky]

Afaik no one has used the word flexible before, and on google there
seems to be two main choices for that word, corrugated copper tubing
shaped like an accordian, like what is used for gas lines at a stove,
and soft copper tubing that is a smooth tube but can be bent by hand.

I think Higgs meant the second.

Which did you mean?

[Norminn]

Steel is all that I would think of using....one experience with a flood
was enough. Fortunately, we were home when the washer hose let go, and
two rooms were flooded before we could stop the water. Complicated by
water shooting all over the wall behind the washer, I couldn't reach
back to shut off the water there because it was also hitting the elec.
plug for the dryer....didn't want to stand in water and touch either
machine. Even with the water shut off at the main entry, in our condo
it took a while for the pipes to drain. Since we had just finished
remodeling the kitchen and put a brand new oriental rug in the D.R., the
next quest was for a big vacuum. With my hysteria, hubby was only too
happy to rush out and rent a super vac with a squeegee that slurped the
floor dry. No damage done.

[micky]

On Sat, 31 Aug 2013 08:37:10 -0400, Norminn <nor...@earthlink.net>
wrote:

>On 8/29/2013 9:00 PM, larrymo...@my-deja.com wrote:
>> All the TV home repair shows recommend connecting
>> plumbing fixtures and clothes washers through steel braided
>> supply lines, but I noticed the hose inside those lines is just
>> unreinforced clear vinyl.
>>
>> Are there steel braided lines they really less likely to break and flood
>> my house than regular lines made of just nylon reinforced rubber?
>> I ended up using soft copper tubing because I wasn't sure, but
>> copper wouldn't be practical for a dishwasher. So are there steel
>> braided supply lines that have reinforced hoses in them?
>>
>
>Steel is all that I would think of using....one experience with a flood
>was enough. Fortunately, we were home when the washer hose let go, and
>two rooms were flooded before we could stop the water. Complicated by
>water shooting all over the wall behind the washer, I couldn't reach
>back to shut off the water there because it was also hitting the elec.
>plug for the dryer....didn't want to stand in water and touch either
>machine.

That makes a lot of sense.

>Even with the water shut off at the main entry, in our condo
>it took a while for the pipes to drain. Since we had just finished
>remodeling the kitchen and put a brand new oriental rug in the D.R., the
>next quest was for a big vacuum. With my hysteria, hubby was only too
>happy to rush out and rent a super vac with a squeegee that slurped the
>floor dry. No damage done.

Norminn, for all your hysteria, you have to be the only woman in 10
miles who would say after that that there was no damage done.

A lot of people would think they need a new dining room table and all
kinds of other things.

[tra...@optonline.net]

I've never seen a corrugated copper tubing used for connecting
a stove. In fact, I've never seen corrugated copper tubing period.
The concept would seem to be pointless, as regular copper tubing
is flexible. And if you corrugated copper tubing to make it more
flexible, it would seem to me it would be halfway to failure before
you started to use it. The corrugated gas pipes I have seen have
been stainless steel tubing. And the copper tubing I've seen used
in the past with any gas equipment has been the regular type.

>
> I think Higgs meant the second.

I think so too. And that is commonly used to connect dishwashers.


>
>
>
> Which did you mean?

[micky]

Free high resolution close up photo of a small section of flexible
copper pipe or tubing. This particular pipe is corrugated or grooved.
Free picture for any use.
http://www.photos-public-domain.com/2012/02/11/flexible-copper-pipe-close-up/

>
>>
>> I think Higgs meant the second.
>
>I think so too. And that is commonly used to connect dishwashers.

I wanted to know if Nestork meant something different by adding the
word flexible, when others had used "soft".
>
>>
>>
>>
>> Which did you mean?

[knuckle...@nowhere.gov]

Rather expensive I would think and not really necessary to deal with
this inlet water problem.

In all cases where the on-off function is controlled electronically,
and not just based on how full the appliance is (like a water heater
is), there's a much easier solution: Put the control valve, usually
solenoid operated, outside the appliance where it can be plumbed into
the household piping. Now there would be no flexible line under
pressure except when the appliance is actually filling so bursting
would be much less likely.

One wonders why the appliance manufacturers haven't implemented such a
solution or at least made it an option. Maybe they all own flexible
line tubing companies? Or the contractors who make money out of the
repair work threaten a boycott?

[Norminn]

Well, we had about 1" of water in the kitchen, adjoining the laundry
room, and I didn't want to think of the plywood cabinets with brand new
facing beginning to expand or warp, hence my degree of hysteria :o) My
husbands always move fast when I am approaching hysteria....that
particular one divorced me. Fine with me.

>
> A lot of people would think they need a new dining room table and all
> kinds of other things.
>

Done, about a year before the flood. New tile and paint job in D.R. We
were pretty much done with renewing/replacing/refreshing....hubby got
mad when I tore up faded, old wool carpet in guest room without his
permission. I had been pretty much out of the habit of seeking
permission for about ... oh, 40 years.

[k...@attt.bizz]

On Sat, 31 Aug 2013 07:45:34 +0200, nestork
<nestork...@diybanter.com> wrote:

>

Some dishwasher give no room underneath to work (maximize interior
space). Connecting the tubing after installation is impossible. The
supply can't be connected before installation because there is too
much chance of kinking the supply line, without knowing it's kinked.
Stainless is the best alternative.

[nestork]

micky;3114798 Wrote:
>
> I wanted to know if Nestork meant something different by adding the
> word flexible, when others had used "soft".
>
> Which did you mean?
>

No, I meant soft copper tubing that comes in rolls, not lengths.

It's just that I never use the stuff, and so the correct terminology
never came to mind.




--
nestork

[nestork]

k...@attt.bizz;3115000 Wrote:
>
> Some dishwasher give no room underneath to work (maximize interior
> space). Connecting the tubing after installation is impossible. The
> supply can't be connected before installation because there is too
> much chance of kinking the supply line, without knowing it's kinked.
> Stainless is the best alternative.

I hooked up both sister's dish washers, and both of them had a kick
plate at the front of the machine that could be removed to allow access
to the motor and pump under the dish washer. In both cases, the water
valve was right at the front of the machine (just behind the kick plate)
so that you had good access to the water valve for connecting a water
supply line to it. One sister had a Maytag Performa dish washer, which
was a builder's brand, and I forget what the other sister had.

Braided stainless steel would certainly be a bit easier because of it's
greater flexibility, but there's no reason why soft copper tubing
wouldn't work well and last just as long. You just have to make a
compression connection, that's all.

Perhaps what would sway my choice the most is that with a braided
stainless steel water supply, you can disconnect and reconnect the
supply tube to the water valve a gazillion times, but you can't do that
more than a few times with a compression connection without concern that
the connection is going to leak even when fully tightened. I don't know
if the braided stainless steel dish washer supply hoses are different,
but other stainless steel supply hoses have a gasket built right into
the 3/8 end that seals off any leaks, whereas with a 3/8 inch
compression fitting relies entirely on metal-to-metal contacts to
prevent water leaks, and I'd trust a gasket to stop a leak better than
metal-to-metal contacts.




--
nestork

[micky]

On Sun, 1 Sep 2013 03:20:12 +0200, nestork
<nestork...@diybanter.com> wrote:

>
>k...@attt.bizz;3115000 Wrote:
>>
>> Some dishwasher give no room underneath to work (maximize interior
>> space). Connecting the tubing after installation is impossible. The
>> supply can't be connected before installation because there is too
>> much chance of kinking the supply line, without knowing it's kinked.
>> Stainless is the best alternative.
>
>I hooked up both sister's dish washers,

It must be late. I read the line above as sister's death wishes.

[k...@attt.bizz]

On Sun, 1 Sep 2013 03:20:12 +0200, nestork
<nestork...@diybanter.com> wrote:

>

>k...@attt.bizz;3115000 Wrote:
>>
>> Some dishwasher give no room underneath to work (maximize interior
>> space). Connecting the tubing after installation is impossible. The
>> supply can't be connected before installation because there is too
>> much chance of kinking the supply line, without knowing it's kinked.
>> Stainless is the best alternative.
>
>I hooked up both sister's dish washers, and both of them had a kick
>plate at the front of the machine that could be removed to allow access
>to the motor and pump under the dish washer. In both cases, the water
>valve was right at the front of the machine (just behind the kick plate)
>so that you had good access to the water valve for connecting a water
>supply line to it. One sister had a Maytag Performa dish washer, which
>was a builder's brand, and I forget what the other sister had.

Right. Some have oodles of space underneath to work. Some don't. The
higher-end tend not to. They want to squeeze every square inch (and
particularly every vertical fraction of an inch) into interior space
and insulation. Contractor grade units are trivial to install.

>Braided stainless steel would certainly be a bit easier because of it's
>greater flexibility, but there's no reason why soft copper tubing
>wouldn't work well and last just as long. You just have to make a
>compression connection, that's all.

It'll last, alright, if it's installed correctly. Unfortunately, you
often can't tell if it gets kinked when the machine is slid back. It's
not usually such a problem with a 'fridge because you can see it as
it's slid back. It still happens, though.

<...>

[dave]

How safe is the water coming through braided steel lines (what is the risk of chemicals leaking into the water from the inner plastic tubing)?

[Ed Pawlowski]

On 10/10/2013 1:41 PM, dave wrote:
> How safe is the water coming through braided steel lines (what is the risk of chemicals leaking into the water from the inner plastic tubing)?
>

I don't see where it would present a problem. No worse than any other
plastic that is used for water supply.

BTW, my last house was built in 1948 and had a lead water main from the
street into the house. No one living there ever had a problem, nor did
anyone from the other few hundred houses built that way.

[philo]

On 10/10/2013 03:18 PM, gfre...@aol.com wrote:

> Most of that just depends on the pH of the water.
> Hard water with a high pH will coat the inside of the pipe and
> sequester the lead to some extent. If you have mildly acidic water,
> the lead is coming along for the ride.
>
> All that said, most lead is actually traced back to kids eating paint.
>



I think the stainless steel braided lines have a rubber or plastic
interior anyway. I just installed one a few days ago but did not examine
it closely.


If it is stainless steel all the way through it's fine.

Stainless steel fixtures and work areas in the food industry are usually
a requirement.


BTW: My house was built in 1898 and the incoming water line is lead.

I had my water tested and was told first to use NO water for 12 hours so
it could stand in the pipes ...then a water sample was taken. Next a
second sample was taken after I just let the water run until cold.


The first sample had a tiny trace of lead in it...but the 2nd was lead
free. I was told that the simple act of flushing a toilet was enough to
clear the lines.

As a precaution though I put a filter on the kitchen sink and have a
filtered spigot.


Side note: Most of my adult life I have been living in old apartments
which were certainly fed by lead pipes. ...and finally:
For my job...I worked with industrial batteries which are made of
lead...so I was required to have lead tests every six months.
My lead level was almost immeasurable...certainly well below anything to
think about.

[Ed Pawlowski]

On Thu, 10 Oct 2013 16:04:27 -0500, philo  <ph...@privacy.net> wrote:



>The first sample had a tiny trace of lead in it...but the 2nd was lead
>free. I was told that the simple act of flushing a toilet was enough to
>clear the lines.
>

I get up in the middle of the night just to clear the water lines.

[philo]

Yep...due to my age and the inflexibity of my bladder I am usually up at
4am. No lead accumulating in my water lines :)


Now a BIG QUIZ for anyone interested:



I figured it was about time I replaced that leaky water hose. Even
though the hardware store had one of the correct length...why did
Philo's brain select this one?

Hint: It was not simply because a shorter hose would have a sharper bend
and possibly crack (eventually).




https://scontent-b-ord.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn2/s403x403/1381399_699378150089557_928079982_n.jpg

[Ed Pawlowski]

On Thu, 10 Oct 2013 17:33:21 -0500, philo  <ph...@privacy.net> wrote:



>I figured it was about time I replaced that leaky water hose. Even
>though the hardware store had one of the correct length...why did
>Philo's brain select this one?
>
>Hint: It was not simply because a shorter hose would have a sharper bend
>and possibly crack (eventually).
>
>
>
>
>https://scontent-b-ord.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn2/s403x403/1381399_699378150089557_928079982_n.jpg

Possibilities:
It was the same price so you got more for your money
You liked the nice curve
The curve lessens water hammer
You for got the measurement so figured longer is better
You just had this lifelong desire for a longer hose (understandable)

[cl...@snyder.on.ca]

On Thu, 10 Oct 2013 16:04:27 -0500, philo  <ph...@privacy.net> wrote:

>On 10/10/2013 03:18 PM, gfre...@aol.com wrote:
>> On Thu, 10 Oct 2013 15:23:47 -0400, Ed Pawlowski <e...@snet.net> wrote:
>>
>>> On 10/10/2013 1:41 PM, dave wrote:
>>>> How safe is the water coming through braided steel lines (what is the risk of chemicals leaking into the water from the inner plastic tubing)?
>>>>
>>>
>>> I don't see where it would present a problem. No worse than any other
>>> plastic that is used for water supply.
>>>
>>> BTW, my last house was built in 1948 and had a lead water main from the
>>> street into the house. No one living there ever had a problem, nor did
>>> anyone from the other few hundred houses built that way.
>>
>> Most of that just depends on the pH of the water.
>> Hard water with a high pH will coat the inside of the pipe and
>> sequester the lead to some extent. If you have mildly acidic water,
>> the lead is coming along for the ride.
>>
>> All that said, most lead is actually traced back to kids eating paint.
>>
>

Or leaded fuel residues

[ericj...@msn.com]

[gfre...@aol.com]

No

[trader_4]

No? I just bought some to install a sink faucet. They also have "flood safe" ones, where if there is an attempt at huge volume, eg a total burst, they shut off. I've heard of some people having problems with them here I think. Also, copper can be used with a dishwasher, that's what I have. Connection is made at bottom front, after its in.

[Wade Garrett]

Yeah, I installed flood-safe hoses on my washer several years ago and
soon after, it quit filling properly. I didn't connect the two events
and since the washer was real old, decided to replace rather than yet
another repair.

In casual conversation, the washer sales guy asked why were shopping for
a new one and I mentioned it stopped filling. He asked if I'd recently
installed flood-safe hoses. When I said yes, he asked if I still had the
old hoses around and I said I did. He said to try sticking them back on
and see if the problem went away.

It did- and I went back to the same store to buy new regular hoses from
the guy, thank him, and gave him a bottle of good bourbon.

--
I think of myself as a man's man. I like my whiskey neat, my steaks
rare, and my Pop-Tarts untoasted.
- @patsajak

[cl...@snyder.on.ca]

On Sun, 27 Aug 2017 11:49:01 -0700 (PDT), ericj...@msn.com wrote:

They won't bulge and burst - but the liner can still deteriorate and
crack. "generally speaking" braided lines ARE a better protection
against catastrophic failure.

[cl...@snyder.on.ca]

Actually "yes" but generally sold as hydraulic lines. Just about
anything is more vibration and fatigue resistant than "soft copper"
which work hardens.

[trader_4]

ROFL.

Only Clare would tell a guy looking for a braided dishwasher water
supply line that he needs hydraulic lines.

[gfre...@aol.com]

The stainless hoses sold at the BORG are far from hydraulic quality.
My neighbor lost one that was only a few years old and flooded his
garage. If this was inside the house it would have really been ugly.

[Dean Hoffman]

On 8/27/17 4:37 PM, cl...@snyder.on.ca wrote:

>> On Sun, 27 Aug 2017 11:49:01 -0700 (PDT), ericj...@msn.com wrote:
>>
>>> On Friday, 30 August 2013 02:00:26 UTC+1, larrymo...@my-deja.com wrote:
>>>> All the TV home repair shows recommend connecting
>>>> plumbing fixtures and clothes washers through steel braided
>>>> supply lines, but I noticed the hose inside those lines is just
>>>> unreinforced clear vinyl.
>>>>
>>>> Are there steel braided lines they really less likely to break and flood
>>>> my house than regular lines made of just nylon reinforced rubber?
>>>> I ended up using soft copper tubing because I wasn't sure, but
>>>> copper wouldn't be practical for a dishwasher. So are there steel
>>>> braided supply lines that have reinforced hoses in them?

> Actually "yes" but generally sold as hydraulic lines. Just about
> anything is more vibration and fatigue resistant than "soft copper"
> which work hardens.
>

You must be thinking about something besides hydraulic lines,
at least the ones I'm familiar with. The ones I see are black and
usually 1/2". Working pressure even 40 years ago was 2000 psi.
Modern ones are rated for 3,500 psi. These are for farm equipment,
telehandlers, skid loaders, etc.

[cl...@snyder.on.ca]

Just what I'm saying - There ARE steel braded hoses with
re-enforvements IN them - BUT they are hydraulic lines.

Actually there are nylon re-enforced hoses with stainless steel braid
covering - but generally not from "the borg"

[Bob F]

I had quick failure of both that I tried on a water heater - within a
year or 3.

[trader_4]

Home Depot, Lowes has plenty of them in assorted lengths for hooking up faucets
and dishwashers. Keep it up, you're 2 for 2!

[trader_4]

Who was asking for or expecting "hyrdaulic line" quality? I think
you're confusing quality and specification. The poster was asking
if the stainless steel covered hoses for dishwashers are better than
hoses for the same purpose that are not stainless steel covered.
Are you telling us that he shouldn't use those stainless steel hoses,
that are widely sold at HD, plumbing supplies, etc, that are here in
my house, that you see in almost every new faucet install today?
That instead he should use what? Clare's hydraulic lines? If he
can't use them for a dishwasher, then I guess they are unfit for
every sink too. Are Clare's hydraulic lines spec'd for drinking
water? The poster thinks he can't use copper tubing for a dishwasher,
but I have it on mine, no install issues. IDK, maybe it's just me,
but I doubt the install instructions that come with new fixtures
and appliances today say that you need to go get hydraulic lines
to hook them up. I'd feel pretty weird going into a plumbing supply
and asking for hydraulic lines.

[cl...@snyder.on.ca]

I'd NEVER use flex hoses to install a water heater myself - - -

[Wayne Boatwright]

On Sun 27 Aug 2017 09:41:14p, told us...

We don't have a water heater as our hot water is supplied from a
central boiler. However, our dishwasher, kitchen and bathroom sink
faucets, toilets, clothes washer, and water supply for the steam
cycle in our cloths dryer are all plumbed with SS braided supply
lines. We've never had a problem. I believe the SS braiding
enclosing the vinyl hose definitely helps to prevent a burst in the
line.

Most hot water heaters in our area have flexible copper pipes for
both supply and output.

--

~~ If there's a nit to pick, some nitwit will pick it. ~~

~~ A mind is a terrible thing to lose. ~~

**********************************************************

Wayne Boatwright

[cl...@snyder.on.ca]

Around here it's either hard copper or PEX.

[Stormin' Norman]

On Mon, 28 Aug 2017 14:10:29 GMT, Wayne Boatwright
<waynebo...@xgmail.com> wrote:

+1, I agree whole heartedly. We also use the braided stainless steel,
reinforced supply hoses and have never experienced a problem with
them. I estimate we have been using that style supply line for at
least 20 years, since the late 80's.


--

The problem is Donald Trump. The solution is impeachment or, the otherwise legal
removal, from office, of the greatest threat to peace the world has ever known.

[micky]

In alt.home.repair, on Sun, 27 Aug 2017 16:51:40 -0400, Wade Garrett

Good for you, and good for him. I'm sure a lot of guys would have just
ignored your problem annd sold you a new washer.

This is why it pays to talk. If he hadn't asked you but you'd
volunteered the problem, there would have been a chance he would have
told you about this then.

I'm glad to know about those hoses, although it still might be worth
getting them if this is the only problem. It's a fail-safe problem, not
fail-unsafe.

I had a plain rubber hose split once, and I'm glad I heard through the
pipes on the second floor the water running in the basement, around
7:30AM when I was going to work. If I'd been gone all day, it would
have been a lot worse. If I'd been gone all week, would have been even
worse. I got steel-clad hoses then. After 25 years, one is dribbling
a little bit at the end if twisted the wrong way. I have a new set of
hoses.

[micky]

In alt.home.repair, on Sun, 27 Aug 2017 18:55:33 -0400,

They should build houses with garage-door style walls, so if there's a
leak, the water will run out.

[micky]

In alt.home.repair, on Mon, 28 Aug 2017 00:41:14 -0400,

Glad to hear it. Compulsive guy that I am, I shopped all over to find
the original brand of water heater, so I wouldn't have those ridiculous
L or S shaped piping, and wouldn't need flex hoses either.

The original was AOSmith, but Sears had the same pipe positioning, twice
in a row. No one else did.

[micky]

In alt.home.repair, on Sun, 27 Aug 2017 11:49:01 -0700 (PDT),

Another thing you don't want is polyethylene hoses to the ice maker or
humidifier. Even though they are supplied with the fridge. (They
probaly have a warning in the manual, that what they supply is not
good.) They spring leaks for no apparent reason. Copper is what you
want. You need a bunch of (extra) slack to get the fridge in and out.
I don't know details.

[cl...@snyder.on.ca]

On Tue, 05 Sep 2017 14:51:07 -0400, micky <NONONO...@bigfoot.com>
wrote:

Who do you think made the Sears heater? Not SAears - that's for sure.
Most likely it was an AOS heater.

[cl...@snyder.on.ca]

On Tue, 05 Sep 2017 14:54:09 -0400, micky <NONONO...@bigfoot.com>
wrote:

Properly intalled polyflex or nyflex hose IS what you want on the
ice-maker. It will not work harden and crack. It will NOT spring a
leak "for no reason". The reason may not be apparent to the untrained
eye. It cannot be allowed to rub against anything (nor may copper) and
it needs the CORRECT fittings, properly installed. Leave the sleave
out of the compression fitting and it WILL eventually leak

[Brooklyn Born]

replying to krw, Brooklyn Born wrote:
I'm sorry, but a stainless braided hose certainly can suddenly burst like an
aneurysm. Mine did the other night at 1:45 a.m. and water came shooting out
like a geyser. Luckily we were awake and I closed the valve before the flood
reached the floor below us! There was no sign of rodents, so I don't think
anything chewed through the hose.
https://www.homeownershub.com/img/bn

[MP-Long Island NY]

replying to clare, MP-Long Island NY wrote:
Get rid of all stainless steel braided water supply lines. When, not if, they
burst you will have thousands of dollars of damage to your home.
https://www.homeownershub.com/img/ci

[MP-Long Island NY]

replying to Brooklyn Born, MP-Long Island NY wrote:
Happened to me too.
https://www.homeownershub.com/img/cj

[Oren]

Oh silly you, home moaner. Yes, hoses break. I had rubber flex hoses
for ten (10) years on a water heater. Replaced the heater and put new
rubber washers in the hoses. Just put two new SS supply lines on the
clothes washer.

My water pressure into the house PEX manifold system is regulated
lower than the street pressure.

[trader_4]

I have flex hoses on the washer and kitchen sink. What's the alternative?
I guess it's just the old solid supply lines, which are fine, if you have the
room to work them. But the kitchen faucets are now coming with their
own flex lines that are part of the faucet. So, even if you put solid
between that and the stop valve, you still have flex line that can
leak. And it's harder to deal with the solid lines when installing.

[The L Spot 2]

All you brilliant experienced handy men and plumbers........................

I know very little about plumbing but have a BIG mysterious problem that I am hoping someone can help me with.
Four years ago I installed a Hobart glass sanitizer (washing machine) which is connected to the water supply by Hobart's supplied stainless steel braided 125 psi hose. It has burst every year, same month, 4 years in a row causing major flooding each time. We have installed pressure regulators, water softeners, we turn off the water every time we leave the building. And the line keeps breaking. Hobart swears they NEVER have this problem. The real crime in all of this, damage has ranged from $5K to $10k each incident, the hose they require us to purchase costs us $160 per hose (I gather from your other posts this is outrageous) and the tech they send out costs a minimum of $350 per visit to change the burst hose. There are chemicals stored under the sink that flow into the sanitizer where the burst keeps happening, could those be causing corrosion? Line not kinked but there is evidence of rust between SS and rubber interior. Any of you have ideas on what is causing this? Or other options to a SS rubber lined hose?

Thanks so much!!!!! I can't wait to hear your suggestions and feel free to ask any questions!

[micky]

In alt.home.repair, on Mon, 24 Oct 2022 22:37:16 -0700 (PDT), The L Spot

2 <lo...@lestercompany.com> wrote:

>All you brilliant experienced handy men and plumbers........................
>
>I know very little about plumbing but have a BIG mysterious problem that I am hoping someone can help me with.
>Four years ago I installed a Hobart glass sanitizer (washing machine) which is connected to the water supply by Hobart's supplied stainless steel braided 125 psi hose. It has burst every year, same month, 4 years in a row causing major flooding each time. We have installed pressure regulators,

Was your pressure ever near 125psi? IIRC normal residential pressure is
much less. maybe your regulator is broken or misadjusted. When you
turn the water on in a sink, does it come out with the same sort of
pressure you have at home and elswhere, or does it shoot out more
forcefully? If they are charging you 350 to change the hose, I think
they should be measuring the water pressure when they are there.

>water softeners, we turn off the water every time we leave the building. And the line keeps breaking. Hobart swears they NEVER have this problem.

I found that hard to believe, given your problem, but various googles,
the last one dishwasher hose bursts "hobart" didn't find
anyone complaining about a burst hose. Maybe some other search words
would find more?

> The real crime in all of this, damage has ranged from $5K to $10k each incident, the hose they require us to purchase

Can't you use a competitor's hose, with the right adapters. I looked at
https://www.partstown.com/hobart/hob00-918390-00010 and it has male ends
at both ends, but domestic clothes wassher hoses have femail ends at
both ends. My dishwasher if I remember uses a metal line to supply
water. I'm no plumber, but iiuc the reason not to do this would only be
vibration?????

When I go away for a month or more, I turn the water off to the whole
house, but other than that, the water is on to the dishwasher and the
clothes washer all the time.

Under 10 years after I moved in, house 4 years older than that, I heard
a small noise coming from the water pipes upstairs when I woke up in the
morning. In the basement, I found that the washing machnine hose was
spraying water from a slit in the hose. It got things wet. It soaked a
set of DC and suburbs white and yellow phonebooks someone had given me
and there must have water on the floor, but not much money damage. At
the hardware store, the manager said they sell a lot of washing machine
hoses after the original ones spring leaks/burst, and he recommended
woven SS clad hoses.

It's been 30 years and one started dribbling just a tiny bit at the end,
pprobably where the end rotates. I could stop it by pushing the hose
into a different position. So I replaced both, but neither had burst.
These are nothing special, just whatever the hardware store and then
Amazon had.

> costs us $160 per hose (I gather from your other posts this is outrageous) and the tech they send out costs a minimum of $350 per visit to change the burst hose. There are chemicals stored under the sink that flow into the sanitizer where the burst keeps happening, could those be causing corrosion?

Sure, if they are corrosive. I kept a cardboard cylinder of "crystal"
toilet bowl cleaner under the bathroom sink, when it came packaged that
way (with a smaller plastic insert in the top to get the cleaner out.
Remember?) One day I found the cardboard damaged, bubbly, from
humidity?, and the hinges on the nearer door were damaged. Door would
shut but it sprang open an inch when I let go. (I got matching
replacement hinges when a neighbor remodeled their bathroom and left the
old cabinets on the curb.)

FWIW, the hinges are brown and I couldnt' see the corrosion on the
hinges.

>Line not kinked but there is evidence of rust between SS and rubber interior. Any of you have ideas on what is causing this? Or other
>options to a SS rubber lined hose?
>
>Thanks so much!!!!! I can't wait to hear your suggestions and feel free to ask any questions!

My best guess is corrosion from the chemicals or that there is a bad lot
of hoses and you keep getting a hose from the same lot. Buy from
somewhere else, at the least.

IANAPlumber

[Oscar]

Maybe check the water pressure with a max pressure logging gauge?

https://www.amazon.com/Measureman-Pressure-Female-Thread-Maximum/dp/B07T9ZPJKZ

[Dean Hoffman]

What about air/water hammer? That can break plumbing. It seems odd that would happen the same time every year though.
Are you getting air into the system because you are shutting the water off?

[Bob F]

After 3 or 4 failures of "Braided stainless" water heater connection
hose leaks, I gave up on them and switched to the somewhat bendable
"corrugated" stainless tubing connectors. The cheap rubber hose inside
the braided stainless ones has little strength and eventually springs a
leak. I use braid re-enforced rubber or plastic connections for
plumbing fixtures and washing machines.

Are your braided stainless hoses actually bursting, or just springing a
leak that easily flows through the braid? Is the stainless braid
actually split?

If chemicals are affecting the internal hose, the braid will make sure
you cannot see a problem developing. A more conventional hose would show
the damage before it ruptures.

Is there a water heater inside these washers that could be raising the
temp too much, causing pressures to exceed the hoses rating? An
expansion tank could help if that is the case. Or, could there be a
freezing situation?

[Peter]

Does your setup require flexible hoses or could the connection be made
with rigid piping? If the only time you need to move the washing
machine is when the hoses break, consider using rigid pipes.

[Dean Hoffman]

It isn't that hard to find hose rated for well above 125 psi.
<https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07WZRV3NL/?tag=best-washing-machine-hoses-20&asc_source=browser&asc_refurl=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.bobvila.com%2Farticles%2Fbest-washing-machine-hoses&th=1>
Would using better hose just move the problem elsewhere? Is your water supplier switching pumps or something like that in the fall?

[Marilyn Manson]

Be careful with those inexpensive "max pressure" gauges. They will often give you a false max reading.

By design, the red max pressure indicator is loose on the shaft so that it will stay at whatever reading
the pin on the black needle pushes it up too. The "false max" can occur if there is any water hammer
present in the system.

In some cases, the rapid movement of the black needle will actually *throw* the red needle to a higher
pressure reading than ever existed. I've seen (and vidioed) the red needle being thrown up to the 120
range when the black needle never exceeded 90.

[The L Spot 2]

All,

There’s a lot of GREAT ideas, suggestions, and input here. I will consider it all and make a list of questions to ask the Hobart tech.
Bob F, wish I knew how to post a picture in this thread, clearly a burst! The end that goes under the appliance looks new whereas the end that connects to the water pipe is discolored. The tech explained that the metal braid had to give first because the rubber bursting would not cause the metal to tear.

To answer a few of your questions:
We are in central CA, no freezing temps. This break happens in the fall.
No water hammer that I can tell, the system is quiet as a mouse.
I will check the pressure gage, good suggestion.
The hose is not bent anywhere.
The tech and others swear its not the chemicals but they have been removed from under the sink where the breaks happen. For now.
There is a 5 gallon water heater under the sink, but again, rarely used, maybe once a week. Doesn’t get very warm under the sink.

Thanks again for all of your help! I will keep you posted what we decide to do and if it works beyond a year.

Best,

Lori


--

[Bob F]

On 10/25/2022 5:45 PM, The L Spot 2 wrote:
> All,
>
> There’s a lot of GREAT ideas, suggestions, and input here. I will consider it all and make a list of questions to ask the Hobart tech.
> Bob F, wish I knew how to post a picture in this thread, clearly a burst! The end that goes under the appliance looks new whereas the end that connects to the water pipe is discolored. The tech explained that the metal braid had to give first because the rubber bursting would not cause the metal to tear.

I wonder if there could be a problem with dis-similar metals where the
stainless meets the supply pipe, or maybe an electrical leakage in the
washer which passes current through the stainless hose through to the
plumbing system. It could also be something else with leakage to the
water pipe which goes into the washer which might have it's own
connection to ground. These problems could cause corrosion at the joint.

[micky]

In alt.home.repair, on Tue, 25 Oct 2022 08:31:35 -0700, Bob F
<bobn...@gmail.com> wrote:

>T24gMTAvMjQvMjAyMiAxMDozNyBQTSwgVGhlIEwgU3BvdCAyIHdyb3RlOg0KPiBBbGwgeW91
>IGJyaWxsaWFudCBleHBlcmllbmNlZCBoYW5keSBtZW4gYW5kIHBsdW1iZXJzLi4uLi4uLi4u
>Li4uLi4uLi4uLi4uLi4uDQo+IA0KPiBJIGtub3cgdmVyeSBsaXR0bGUgYWJvdXQgcGx1bWJp
>bmcgYnV0IGhhdmUgYSBCSUcgbXlzdGVyaW91cyBwcm9ibGVtIHRoYXQgSSBhbSBob3Bpbmcg
>c29tZW9uZSBjYW4gaGVscCBtZSB3aXRoLg0KPiBGb3VyIHllYXJzIGFnbyBJIGluc3RhbGxl
>ZCBhIEhvYmFydCBnbGFzcyBzYW5pdGl6ZXIgKHdhc2hpbmcgbWFjaGluZSkgd2hpY2ggaXMg
>Y29ubmVjdGVkIHRvIHRoZSB3YXRlciBzdXBwbHkgYnkgSG9iYXJ0J3Mgc3VwcGxpZWQgc3Rh....

Bob, it's not like you, or Peter, to write like this. What is going on?

[Bob F]

I have no clue what that is. It is not visible when I look at my post.

[Bob F]

Class action lawsuit on Stainless Steel connector hoses.

https://www.classaction.org/water-supply-lines

[danny burstein]

It's posted in "base 64", which for some stupid reason or another is:

a: an option in many posting programs
and
b: somehow got turned on.

If your viweing program doesn't automatically recovert
it back to standard text, there are ways to cut-and-paste
or otherwise feed it into decoders, but 99 percent of
the time it's not worth the effore.

[from the "base64" program manual file]

base64 - encode / decode binary file as RFC 1341 MIME base64

DESCRIPTION
The MIME (Multipurpose Internet Mail Extensions) specification (RFC
1341 and successors) defines a mechanism for encoding arbitrary binary
information for transmission by electronic mail. Triplets of 8-bit
octets are encoded as groups of four characters, each representing 6
bits of the source 24 bits. Only characters present in all variants of
ASCII and EBCDIC are used, avoiding incompatibilities in other forms of
encoding such as uuencode/uudecode.




--
_____________________________________________________
Knowledge may be power, but communications is the key
dan...@panix.com
[to foil spammers, my address has been double rot-13 encoded]

[Scott Lurndal]

It is thunderbird detecting an unicode character in your post and
base64 encoding it. Annoying, to be sure, particuarly when not all
readers support base64 encoding.

[Peter]

Whatever it is, I'm not smart enough to do something like that! Note:
I'm taking your comment as a compliment, even if you intended it as a dig.

[micky]

In alt.home.repair, on Wed, 26 Oct 2022 16:19:42 GMT,

So did Bob or Peter say anything I should know?

[Scott Lurndal]

$ cat /tmp/abc

T24gMTAvMjQvMjAyMiAxMDozNyBQTSwgVGhlIEwgU3BvdCAyIHdyb3RlOg0KPiBBbGwgeW91
IGJyaWxsaWFudCBleHBlcmllbmNlZCBoYW5keSBtZW4gYW5kIHBsdW1iZXJzLi4uLi4uLi4u
Li4uLi4uLi4uLi4uLi4uDQo+IA0KPiBJIGtub3cgdmVyeSBsaXR0bGUgYWJvdXQgcGx1bWJp
bmcgYnV0IGhhdmUgYSBCSUcgbXlzdGVyaW91cyBwcm9ibGVtIHRoYXQgSSBhbSBob3Bpbmcg
c29tZW9uZSBjYW4gaGVscCBtZSB3aXRoLg0KPiBGb3VyIHllYXJzIGFnbyBJIGluc3RhbGxl
ZCBhIEhvYmFydCBnbGFzcyBzYW5pdGl6ZXIgKHdhc2hpbmcgbWFjaGluZSkgd2hpY2ggaXMg
Y29ubmVjdGVkIHRvIHRoZSB3YXRlciBzdXBwbHkgYnkgSG9iYXJ0J3Mgc3VwcGxpZWQgc3Rh

$ base64 -d < /tmp/abc

On 10/24/2022 10:37 PM, The L Spot 2 wrote:
> All you brilliant experienced handy men and plumbers........................
>
> I know very little about plumbing but have a BIG mysterious problem that I am hoping someone can help me with.

> Four years ago I installed a Hobart glass sanitizer (washing machine) which is connected to the water supply by Hobart's supplied sta$

[micky]

In alt.home.repair, on Wed, 26 Oct 2022 08:43:31 -0700, Bob F

Oh, here's Bob's post. I posted my question about what Bob said before
I saw this.

>> After 3 or 4 failures of "Braided stainless" water heater connection
>> hose leaks, I gave up on them and switched to the somewhat bendable
>> "corrugated" stainless tubing connectors. The cheap rubber hose inside
>> the braided stainless ones has little strength and eventually springs a
>> leak. I use braid re-enforced rubber or plastic  connections for
>> plumbing fixtures and washing machines.
>>
>> Are your braided stainless hoses actually bursting, or just springing a
>> leak that easily flows through the braid? Is the stainless braid
>> actually split?

Good questions.

>> If chemicals are affecting the internal hose, the braid will make sure
>> you cannot see a problem developing. A more conventional hose would show
>> the damage before it ruptures.
>>
>> Is there a water heater inside these washers that could be raising the
>> temp too much, causing pressures to exceed the hoses rating? An
>> expansion tank could help if that is the case. Or, could there be a
>> freezing situation?
>
>Class action lawsuit on Stainless Steel connector hoses.
>
>https://www.classaction.org/water-supply-lines

This is bothersome. AFter maybe 10 leaks in the basement, each from a
different source, I thought I had found and solved all of them. Maybe
not. ;-(

[micky]

In alt.home.repair, on Wed, 26 Oct 2022 15:46:48 -0000 (UTC), danny

burstein <dan...@panix.com> wrote:

>In <tjbkck$2gac1$1...@dont-email.me> Bob F <bobn...@gmail.com> writes:
>
>>On 10/26/2022 5:15 AM, micky wrote:
>>> In alt.home.repair, on Tue, 25 Oct 2022 08:31:35 -0700, Bob F
>>> <bobn...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> T24gMTAvMjQvMjAyMiAxMDozNyBQTSwgVGhlIEwgU3BvdCAyIHdyb3RlOg0KPiBBbGwgeW91
>>>> IGJyaWxsaWFudCBleHBlcmllbmNlZCBoYW5keSBtZW4gYW5kIHBsdW1iZXJzLi4uLi4uLi4u
>>>> Li4uLi4uLi4uLi4uLi4uDQo+IA0KPiBJIGtub3cgdmVyeSBsaXR0bGUgYWJvdXQgcGx1bWJp
>>>> bmcgYnV0IGhhdmUgYSBCSUcgbXlzdGVyaW91cyBwcm9ibGVtIHRoYXQgSSBhbSBob3Bpbmcg
>>>> c29tZW9uZSBjYW4gaGVscCBtZSB3aXRoLg0KPiBGb3VyIHllYXJzIGFnbyBJIGluc3RhbGxl
>>>> ZCBhIEhvYmFydCBnbGFzcyBzYW5pdGl6ZXIgKHdhc2hpbmcgbWFjaGluZSkgd2hpY2ggaXMg
>>>> Y29ubmVjdGVkIHRvIHRoZSB3YXRlciBzdXBwbHkgYnkgSG9iYXJ0J3Mgc3VwcGxpZWQgc3Rh....
>>>
>>> Bob, it's not like you, or Peter, to write like this. What is going on?
>
>>I have no clue what that is. It is not visible when I look at my post.
>
>It's posted in "base 64", which for some stupid reason or another is:
>
>a: an option in many posting programs
> and
>b: somehow got turned on.
>
>If your viweing program doesn't automatically recovert
>it back to standard text, there are ways to cut-and-paste
>or otherwise feed it into decoders, but 99 percent of
>the time it's not worth the effore.

Anything Bob says is worth the effort!! ;-)

But I think he replied to himself and this time I could read it.

There is one guy here who posts this way almost all the time.

(Seems to me, if I can learn to read script and italics, I should be
able to learn to read this without a decoder.)

[Bob F]

I have no idea what I might have done to cause this. Let me know if you
see it again.

[micky]

In alt.home.repair, on Wed, 26 Oct 2022 10:34:05 -0700, Bob F

Okay.

What until computers control the things we do in person. You'll meet a
pretty girl and say, Pleased to meet you, and the computer will either
garble it or make you say something vulgar. Same with one's boss, one's
wife, one's kids' teachers.

[Marilyn Manson]

You say that as if they are 3 different people. ;-)

[Bob F]

I thought spell-checkers were doing a pretty good job of that.

[micky]

In alt.home.repair, on Tue, 25 Oct 2022 11:35:18 -0400, Peter
<Hapily...@fakeaddress.com> wrote:

>T24gMTAvMjUvMjAyMiAxOjM3IEFNLCBUaGUgTCBTcG90IDIgd3JvdGU6DQo+IEFsbCB5b3Ug
>YnJpbGxpYW50IGV4cGVyaWVuY2VkIGhhbmR5IG1lbiBhbmQgcGx1bWJlcnMuLi4uLi4uLi4u
>Li4uLi4uLi4uLi4uLi4NCj4gDQo+IEkga25vdyB2ZXJ5IGxpdHRsZSBhYm91dCBwbHVtYmlu
>ZyBidXQgaGF2ZSBhIEJJRyBteXN0ZXJpb3VzIHByb2JsZW0gdGhhdCBJIGFtIGhvcGluZyBz
>b21lb25lIGNhbiBoZWxwIG1lIHdpdGguDQo+IEZvdXIgeWVhcnMgYWdvIEkgaW5zdGFsbGVk
>IGEgSG9iYXJ0IGdsYXNzIHNhbml0aXplciAod2FzaGluZyBtYWNoaW5lKSB3aGljaCBpcyBj....

FWIW, this is the one I was referring to. It was orioginally right after
Bob's.

[micky]

In alt.home.repair, on Wed, 26 Oct 2022 12:51:24 -0400, Peter

I didn't mean it as a dig.